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View Full Version : Reggie Nelson's 4.35 40 Pro Day


bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 11:06 AM
I wrote this in the NFL draft forum thread and I wanted to discuss it with you guys as well on our personal board. He ran 4.35 on wet grass at his Pro Day. Now usually you don't believe Pro Day workouts, but this was on wet grass, which is a slower surface than Indy, and this reassures what the gamefilm already told us: Reggie Nelson is faster than Laron Landry

"This thread is a perfect example of why the combine is massively overrated.

When everyone saw him PLAY, it was held that he's very close to Landry in skill, some actually preferred him over Landry. In fact, anyone who saw both of them PLAY, will recall that Nelson plays faster than Landry with pads on.

Then comes the combine. Landry runs a 4.35, Nelson a 4.48, and OMG!!!lolz, he's so overrated! Give me a break. The 40 time is so overrated. Some guys run it with great form, others don't. Nelson didn't have great form. His 40 suffered because of it. Anyone who sees the film knows that he's faster than Landry.

And now Im sure he worked on his form, and ran a quicker 40 on wet grass. Just reassures what I knew already...that he's faster than Landry. Landry is still the better overall prospect and is more well rounded, but he is NOT faster than Nelson. Watch the film. It never lies.

Last time I checked, no NFL players lines up on the field with their ass in the air and one hand one the floor with the other up in the air. 40 times are stupid. Watch the film. Reggie Nelson is a baller, and he's gonna prove everyone wrong in the NFL.

PLEASE GMEN, TAKE HIM WITH OUR PICK!!"

Any thoughts on Reggie Nelson now after his Pro Day? Will he be unavailable to us because of his increased stock? This all but reassures me that I absolutely want him on the Giants. He's gonna prove all the haters wrong.

Jughead10
03-08-2007, 11:14 AM
Everyone runs faster at their pro days. Thats just the way it is. However I don't really care what Nelson ran anyway.

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 11:17 AM
he ran it on wet grass which is insane. if hes on the board i say we take the guy. i smell ed reed deuce.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 11:20 AM
Everyone runs faster at their pro days. Thats just the way it is. However I don't really care what Nelson ran anyway.

Ive always felt that he plays faster than Landry, even after the combine. I think he's a better ballhawk as well. Not as well rounded, but he also has less play time against legit competition, so Im assuming he'll develop that part of his game.

Id love to have either, and if Nelson is available, Im more convinced than ever that we should grab him. During the season, I felt he was better than Landry, but I changed my mind after the Bowl games and watching Landry's versatility. He still has potential to be a better player than Landry though.

I think with all the talk of Griffin, Merriweather etc, I hope he falls to us. I think he can really make an impact on our defense. Maybe Im getting all excited for nothing, but whatever. This is the most interesting news that came out that pertains to us the last 2 weeks.

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 11:23 AM
Ive always felt that he plays faster than Landry, even after the combine. I think he's a better ballhawk as well. Not as well rounded, but he also has less play time against legit competition, so Im assuming he'll develop that part of his game.

Id love to have either, and if Nelson is available, Im more convinced than ever that we should grab him. During the season, I felt he was better than Landry, but I changed my mind after the Bowl games and watching Landry's versatility. He still has potential to be a better player than Landry though.

I think with all the talk of Griffin, Merriweather etc, I hope he falls to us. I think he can really make an impact on our defense. Maybe Im getting all excited for nothing, but whatever. This is the most interesting news that came out that pertains to us the last 2 weeks.im with you. i wannt this dood. hes going to be the next ed reed. god i hope we get this kid after watching the highlight tapes of his instincts. then to hear he ran a 4.35 on wet grass im sold on this guy- hes a monster.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 01:27 PM
Landry is still far and away a better prospect than Nelson.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 01:38 PM
Landry is still far and away a better prospect than Nelson.

I don't think the gap is as big as it was once believed. I think Nelson is a close 2nd. Of course Landry is still the better of the 2, but I don't think he's leaps and bounds better.

Of course to be fair, I felt (and still feel) that Bobby Carpenter could/would be just as good of an NFL player as AJ Hawk. So I guess you have to take my player evaluation with a grain of salt.

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 02:03 PM
i bet nelson has a better pro career.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 02:04 PM
I still get weary of Nelson being so frail....Landry has a Brian Dawkins build and style of play right now, imagine what he will be in 3-4 years.

Hey I like Nelson, don't get me wrong. He is #1 on my big board out of guys that I think willl realistically drop to 20 with Poz being a close 2nd. But I have thought for over a year now that Lnadry is going to be one of the best safeties in the league for a long time.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 02:16 PM
I still get weary of Nelson being so frail....Landry has a Brian Dawkins build and style of play right now, imagine what he will be in 3-4 years.

Hey I like Nelson, don't get me wrong. He is #1 on my big board out of guys that I think willl realistically drop to 20 with Poz being a close 2nd. But I have thought for over a year now that Lnadry is going to be one of the best safeties in the league for a long time.

I can agree with that. The questions about Nelson's size, remember, he's the same size as Reed. And that worked out just fine. Im very weary of comparing him to Ed Reed though. Thats a very bold statement, something Im not ready to say just yet. I initially threw it out there months ago, but I retract from that statement. He has to prove it first.

I have no problem with his size at FS. If we were talking SS, then my views would be different. But for FS, I think he'll be fine.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 02:22 PM
Landry is a better prospect still. He can play in the box and is pretty good against the pass. Nelson is a pure ballhawk, but I think he is too frail to come into the box and make an impact vs. the running game.

That said, we don't need a safety in the first round. Wilson is a great young Safety, everybody is tooting his horn. A writer on ESPN said that he was surprised the Giants didn't place more compensation on him. He rated him as one of the best restricted Free Agents. I expect Wilson to get a nice lengthy contract, and maybe move to FS in the new defensive system. Demps is more of a SS and I think he can also thrive in that role. We need another safety, but not on day one.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 02:25 PM
Landry is a better prospect still. He can play in the box and is pretty good against the pass. Nelson is a pure ballhawk, but I think he is too frail to come into the box and make an impact vs. the running game.

That said, we don't need a safety in the first round. Wilson is a great young Safety, everybody is tooting his horn. A writer on ESPN said that he was surprised the Giants didn't place more compensation on him. He rated him as one of the best restricted Free Agents. I expect Wilson to get a nice lengthy contract, and maybe move to FS in the new defensive system. Demps is more of a SS and I think he can also thrive in that role. We need another safety, but not on day one.

Ricky Bobby...for the last time....Wilson is NOT a FS.

And we didn't place a high tender on him because he's not worth it. We have Demps who can play SS, and to be quite honest, Wilson isn't that great. SS who can play in the box are dime a dozen. Hell you can find one in round 5 of this draft easy. Wilson is very replaceable.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 02:32 PM
Ricky Bobby...for the last time....Wilson is NOT a FS.

And we didn't place a high tender on him because he's not worth it. We have Demps who can play SS, and to be quite honest, Wilson isn't that great. SS who can play in the box are dime a dozen. Hell you can find one in round 5 of this draft easy. Wilson is very replaceable.
I know he's NOT a FS. He can learn to a FS. Just like i'm NOT an electrical engineer, i'm learning to be an electrical engineer.

I think Wilson can become a good FS. You can have your own opinions on him, but i'm sticking to mine. He is undersized to play SS, yet he succeeded. I think he would be a better fit at FS because of his size, and playmaking ability. Our safties are not bad. Our CBs, and Defensive Cordinators made them look bad. Look for Wilson to take his game to another level next year, whether it is at SS or FS.

moc182
03-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Nelson is a better player than Landry. Landry had a spectacular Sophomore season, and has been living off it ever since. He's been quite average the past few years. Nelson plays faster than him, is more instinctual, and is more of a playmaker, I like Landry too, but I'd take Nelson in a heartbeat.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 02:35 PM
I know he's NOT a FS. He can learn to a FS. Just like i'm NOT an electrical engineer, i'm learning to be an electrical engineer.

I think Wilson can become a good FS. You can have your own opinions on him, but i'm sticking to mine. He is undersized to play SS, yet he succeeded. I think he would be a better fit at FS because of his size, and playmaking ability. Our safties are not bad. Our CBs, and Defensive Cordinators made them look bad. Look for Wilson to take his game to another level next year, whether it is at SS or FS.

Wilson will have a better year because we're not gonna run so much Cover 2. But he does not have the speed to excell at FS. If anything, he should just add weight and get stronger for the SS position. He's simply too slow for FS.

I'll be interested in seeing his production next year. It should improve. It will give us a better idea of what to do with Demps in 2009.

But if someone offered a 2nd rounder for Wilson, I wouldn't hesitate to give him up.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 02:42 PM
Wilson will have a better year because we're not gonna run so much Cover 2. But he does not have the speed to excell at FS. If anything, he should just add weight and get stronger for the SS position. He's simply too slow for FS.

I'll be interested in seeing his production next year. It should improve. It will give us a better idea of what to do with Demps in 2009.

But if someone offered a 2nd rounder for Wilson, I wouldn't hesitate to give him up.

I would be a bit upset if we lost Wilson. We should have put first round compensation on him.

Here's idea. Trade Wilson for Michael Turner. I know that Turner recieved much higher compensation, but I think SD was bluffing. They will have to dish out mad money to keep him as just a backup. SD was hoping that somebody would trade for him, but those teams have already found RBs. There were rumors about the Browns and Jets were interested in Turner, but they just got Jamal Lewis and Thomas Jones respectively. There is suddenly no market for RBs, and SD needs a safety. I think that Wilson for Turner straight up would be reasonable. Wilson is more proven than Turner despite the compensation difference. I think that the Dom Rhodes and TJ Duckett interest was created to light a fire under San Diego's ass.

scottyboy
03-08-2007, 02:43 PM
bigbluedefense- gibril is really the only good player in our secondary- better than demps. a combo of wilson at SS and nelson at FS would make an incredible, young duo.

gibril will be a pro bowler under spags' new system!

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 02:46 PM
bigbluedefense- gibril is really the only good player in our secondary- better than demps. a combo of wilson at SS and nelson at FS would make an incredible, young duo.

gibril will be a pro bowler under spags' new system!

To be honest, he's been pretty average after his first 8 games as a rookie. I haven't seen anything out of him to lead me to believe that he will be anything more than a solid SS. He simply doesn't have the coverage skills to take his game to the next level. And like I said, in the box SS are dime a dozen. I just don't see whats so special about him.

Ricky Bobby, Id do that trade. I think we'd make away with the better of it. I question whether the Giants would make anymore trades with SD though. And Im not sure if SD wants that trade with the depth at Safety in the draft this year.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 02:48 PM
I would be a bit upset if we lost Wilson. We should have put first round compensation on him.

Here's idea. Trade Wilson for Michael Turner. I know that Turner recieved much higher compensation, but I think SD was bluffing. They will have to dish out mad money to keep him as just a backup. SD was hoping that somebody would trade for him, but those teams have already found RBs. There were rumors about the Browns and Jets were interested in Turner, but they just got Jamal Lewis and Thomas Jones respectively. There is suddenly no market for RBs, and SD needs a safety. I think that Wilson for Turner straight up would be reasonable. Wilson is more proven than Turner despite the compensation difference. I think that the Dom Rhodes and TJ Duckett interest was created to light a fire under San Diego's ass.


The Chargers don't have to dish out "mad money" for Turner, little over $2 million.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 02:53 PM
The Chargers don't have to dish out "mad money" for Turner, little over $2 million.

If that is the case, He and his agent are going to want out. SD has two options; Trade him, or give him a Hefty contract.

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 02:58 PM
wilson avgs 7 tackles a game hes our best player in the secondary and hes a solid ss. i dunno i think nelson is too good to pass up if hes there. i think the best approach is to draft the best football player on the board not what your needs are.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 02:59 PM
If that is the case, He and his agent are going to want out. SD has two options; Trade him, or give him a Hefty contract.

They don't have to worry about that this year.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 03:00 PM
bigbluedefense- gibril is really the only good player in our secondary- better than demps. a combo of wilson at SS and nelson at FS would make an incredible, young duo.

gibril will be a pro bowler under spags' new system!

Gibril has a loooooong way to go before he is a pro bowler.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 03:04 PM
They don't have to worry about that this year.

In this day and age, if you want to be traded, you get traded. There is nothing worse than a player who doesn't want to play for you. They end up being a cancer in the locker room, holding out, and creating a lot of negative publicity around the team. Turner realizes his value right now. He nows that he is worth more than 2 million, and that he can be a starter somewhere else and get big money. He also realizes that he has only 5 or so years left before RBs start to slow down. He won't want to waste a single year playing for 2 million as a back up. He will want out (unless he doesn't like money), trust me.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 03:07 PM
In this day and age, if you want to be traded, you get traded. There is nothing worse than a player who doesn't want to play for you. They end up being a cancer in the locker room, holding out, and creating a lot of negative publicity around the team. Turner realizes his value right now. He nows that he is worth more than 2 million, and that he can be a starter somewhere else and get big money. He also realizes that he has only 5 or so years left before RBs start to slow down. He won't want to waste a single year playing for 2 million as a back up. He will want out (unless he doesn't like money), trust me.


And where exactly are you pulling this from? Not a word has come out of Turner or his agent regarding his situation and if they were going to create a fuss, they would not have waited this long.

scottyboy
03-08-2007, 03:07 PM
number 10, his numbers were pretty good this year. i am biased because he is one of my favorite giants. he will get an extension passed this year, and no1 will take him(if so we will match). nelson and landry will be great players, but i feel we still go CB or LB round 1, combo for those 2 postitions rounds 1and2

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 03:15 PM
And where exactly are you pulling this from? Not a word has come out of Turner or his agent regarding his situation and if they were going to create a fuss, they would not have waited this long.
To be quite honest, i'm pulling it out of my logical a$$. Free Agency is not over that is why you haven't heard anything from his agent or him. They would be stupid to make the slightest peep about it right now. I'm sure San Diego has told them that they will move him. Once FA is over and Turner is still on the Chargers, you'll hear a grumbling or two.

Number 10
03-08-2007, 03:24 PM
To be quite honest, i'm pulling it out of my logical a$$. Free Agency is not over that is why you haven't heard anything from his agent or him. They would be stupid to make the slightest peep about it right now. I'm sure San Diego has told them that they will move him. Once FA is over and Turner is still on the Chargers, you'll hear a grumbling or two.

They would be "grumbling" as you put it, right now. The vacnancies are closing by the day and with every RB move that occurs, his chances are getting smaller and smaller.

Until I actually hear anything out of him, I assume he is fine with the role he is on knowing that he'll make back next year.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 03:28 PM
They would be "grumbling" as you put it, right now. The vacnancies are closing by the day and with every RB move that occurs, his chances are getting smaller and smaller.

Until I actually hear anything out of him, I assume he is fine with the role he is on knowing that he'll make back next year.

Fair enough.

Forenci
03-08-2007, 03:28 PM
To be honest, I love Gibril, but if we could get a second round pick for him, I would also be very happy. If we could get Nelson in the first round, then draft an outside linebacker and cornerback in the second we'll have made a great foundation for our defense. I'm happy if we keep him or trade him.

I'm weary of Nelson. It doesn't matter if he ran a 4.35 in snow to be honest. It's one of those things that will be overblown like when Kyle Boller through the ball 50 yards on one knee at the Combine. It boosted him to a point where he shouldn't have been in my opinion.

Still a great playmaker, and if we get another second round pick from Gibril and he's available, I say we grab him. If not, take an outside linebacker.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 03:30 PM
They would be "grumbling" as you put it, right now. The vacnancies are closing by the day and with every RB move that occurs, his chances are getting smaller and smaller.

Until I actually hear anything out of him, I assume he is fine with the role he is on knowing that he'll make back next year.

Could mean one of two things:

1. He wants to play for a championship team next year

2. Maybe he's more a product of the system, and rather come out next year for a bigger payday as an unrestricted FA after increasing his stock under Turner, who made the most out of Frank Gore.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 03:36 PM
Could mean one of two things:

1. He wants to play for a championship team next year

2. Maybe he's more a product of the system, and rather come out next year for a bigger payday as an unrestricted FA after increasing his stock under Turner, who made the most out of Frank Gore.
If you have starting potential and you settle for a backup role, you don't have the love for the game or the money. His stock is as high as it can possibly get behind LT. There is no way he gets better stats than what he already has.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 03:43 PM
To get back on topic. I just watched a video of Nelson on Youtube. They call him "the eraser" on there, which is just ridiculous because they don't show a single big hit. He gets INTs, but that may be because the QB is always under a ton of pressure. The Florida front 7 was stacked last year, in case you didn't notice.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 03:48 PM
To get back on topic. I just watched a video of Nelson on Youtube. They call him "the eraser" on there, which is just ridiculous because they don't show a single big hit. He gets INTs, but that may be because the QB is always under a ton of pressure. The Florida front 7 was stacked last year, in case you didn't notice.

You didnt see where that one guy ducked to prevent Reggie from laying wood on him?

Or that one shot in the endzone (albeit a cheapshot)?

And remember, we're running a scheme now that is based heavily on pressure.

So he gets INTs in a scheme that gets pressure. We have the scheme, and the horses up front to get pressure. Whats the problem?

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 04:59 PM
You didnt see where that one guy ducked to prevent Reggie from laying wood on him?

Or that one shot in the endzone (albeit a cheapshot)?

And remember, we're running a scheme now that is based heavily on pressure.

So he gets INTs in a scheme that gets pressure. We have the scheme, and the horses up front to get pressure. Whats the problem?

Most of "The erasor's" tackles aren't solo tackles and he comes in and puts a weak shoulder into a guy that is off balance, or already wrapped up. He looks like he gets erased about as much as he erases. We didn't get that much pressure last year, and if we did, our current Safties would get more INTs. Nelson won't do what for us what he did in Florida.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 05:18 PM
Most of "The erasor's" tackles aren't solo tackles and he comes in and puts a weak shoulder into a guy that is off balance, or already wrapped up. He looks like he gets erased about as much as he erases. We didn't get that much pressure last year, and if we did, our current Safties would get more INTs. Nelson won't do what for us what he did in Florida.

We didn't get pressure because 3 of our 4 DEs went down. Plus Tim Lewis never blitzed, so teams just chipped/doubled up our Ends and that was that.

With Spagnuola, expect a very different scheme. We will blitz early and often. Couple the fact that our dline is better than the Eagles dline, he's gonna get pressure on the qb.

The issue will be coverage. We need CBs and Safeties who can hold up in man coverage. Reggie provides that playmaker our secondary has been missing for quite some time. He's a playmaker who will make plays on the ball, and he'll create turnovers. Thats just what we need.

We have the ability to create pressure. Now with Spags, we have a DC who will utilize that ability. Now we need to compliment it with a player in the secondary who can capitalize off the pressure and create turnovers. Thats what Reggie Nelson can do better than any player in this draft.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 05:34 PM
We didn't get pressure because 3 of our 4 DEs went down. Plus Tim Lewis never blitzed, so teams just chipped/doubled up our Ends and that was that.

With Spagnuola, expect a very different scheme. We will blitz early and often. Couple the fact that our dline is better than the Eagles dline, he's gonna get pressure on the qb.

The issue will be coverage. We need CBs and Safeties who can hold up in man coverage. Reggie provides that playmaker our secondary has been missing for quite some time. He's a playmaker who will make plays on the ball, and he'll create turnovers. Thats just what we need.

We have the ability to create pressure. Now with Spags, we have a DC who will utilize that ability. Now we need to compliment it with a player in the secondary who can capitalize off the pressure and create turnovers. Thats what Reggie Nelson can do better than any player in this draft.
I agree about our front seven, we will get more pressure next year. I also agree that we have issues in our secondary, but it's not the safties that are at fault. Let's look through the CBs on our roster.

Sam Madison - Was once a great corner, but is way past those days
RW McQuarters - Not starting material for sure. Maybe a Nickelback
Corey Webster - Made big plays at a school with front 7 talent (LSU), similar to Reggie Nelson. When healthy, opponents used him to their advantage.
Kevin Dockery - Showed some promise as a rookie, but definately not starter material quite yet.
EJ Underwood - Let's just hope he's not another Jonas Seawright, all hype but no game.
Frank Walker - somebody put it best "A walking penalty flag"

Our Safties
Gibril Wilson - He's not going anywhere, and will start for us next year whether it's at SS or FS.
Will Demps - I'll admit he is more of a SS. He didn't have the best showing in the begining of the year, but really picked his game up for the last third of the season
James Butler - I was hoping we'd see more of him last year, but we didn't. He still might develop.
Bell - I don't know much about him other than he's old, a journeyman and most likely will be replaced by a second day Safety.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that CB is the position that needs to be upgraded. I'm waiting to see Darrelle Revis's pro day. If he runs a good 40 he should be our pick. Hall or Houston should also be considered in the first. McCauley in second. If we decide to sign Hood, who seems to want starting money, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a safety in round 3.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 05:46 PM
I agree about our front seven, we will get more pressure next year. I also agree that we have issues in our secondary, but it's not the safties that are at fault. Let's look through the CBs on our roster.

Sam Madison - Was once a great corner, but is way past those days
RW McQuarters - Not starting material for sure. Maybe a Nickelback
Corey Webster - Made big plays at a school with front 7 talent (LSU), similar to Reggie Nelson. When healthy, opponents used him to their advantage.
Kevin Dockery - Showed some promise as a rookie, but definately not starter material quite yet.
EJ Underwood - Let's just hope he's not another Jonas Seawright, all hype but no game.
Frank Walker - somebody put it best "A walking penalty flag"

Our Safties
Gibril Wilson - He's not going anywhere, and will start for us next year whether it's at SS or FS.
Will Demps - I'll admit he is more of a SS. He didn't have the best showing in the begining of the year, but really picked his game up for the last third of the season
James Butler - I was hoping we'd see more of him last year, but we didn't. He still might develop.
Bell - I don't know much about him other than he's old, a journeyman and most likely will be replaced by a second day Safety.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that CB is the position that needs to be upgraded. I'm waiting to see Darrelle Revis's pro day. If he runs a good 40 he should be our pick. Hall or Houston should also be considered in the first. McCauley in second. If we decide to sign Hood, who seems to want starting money, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a safety in round 3.

Under what premises did you come to those conclusions about our CBs?

When in man coverage, our CBs were more than adequate. The only concern is age. Will they hold up for another year? Thats the issue. Production out of our CBs in man coverage (which is what they'll be asked to do next year) was fine. It was our Safeties that consistently gave up big plays up the middle of the field. Ive said it a million times over by now. All we did was run Cover 2 last year. And the safeties got eaten alive for it. Even in Man, when we gave up a play, it was our safeties on the TE. Go watch some old games if you don't believe me.

But we didn't lack production out of the CB spot, not when in Man coverage. The only CB who got his ass handed to him was Webster, who probably won't even make the team next year. Everyone else did fine in man coverage. The safeties are the guys who sucked.

Now if you want CBs because of the age of our current ones, fine, that makes sense. But to say that we need CBs because of a lack of production is not right. Thats not the true culprit of our secondary issues.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 05:56 PM
Under what premises did you come to those conclusions about our CBs?

When in man coverage, our CBs were more than adequate. The only concern is age. Will they hold up for another year? Thats the issue. Production out of our CBs in man coverage (which is what they'll be asked to do next year) was fine. It was our Safeties that consistently gave up big plays up the middle of the field. Ive said it a million times over by now. All we did was run Cover 2 last year. And the safeties got eaten alive for it. Even in Man, when we gave up a play, it was our safeties on the TE. Go watch some old games if you don't believe me.

But we didn't lack production out of the CB spot, not when in Man coverage. The only CB who got his ass handed to him was Webster, who probably won't even make the team next year. Everyone else did fine in man coverage. The safeties are the guys who sucked.

Now if you want CBs because of the age of our current ones, fine, that makes sense. But to say that we need CBs because of a lack of production is not right. Thats not the true culprit of our secondary issues.

Please point out to me the exact quote about any of the CBs that you disagree with. How many interceptions did our CBs get last year? Did we have one solid guy that we can put on our opponent's number 1 reciever, and count on him to hold him to 50 yards or less? The answer is no. We didn't have one single guy that we felt confortable with covering a guy like TO, or Santana Moss, or Steve Smith. We need a solid number 1 CB. Please don't tell me that Webster, McQuarters or Madison will be that guy. You will lose all credibility in my book.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2007, 06:01 PM
Please point out to me the exact quote about any of the CBs that you disagree with. How many interceptions did our CBs get last year? Did we have one solid guy that we can put on our opponent's number 1 reciever, and count on him to hold him to 50 yards or less? The answer is no. We didn't have one single guy that we felt confortable with covering a guy like TO, or Santana Moss, or Steve Smith. We need a solid number 1 CB need next. Please don't tell me that Webster, McQuarters or Madison will be that guy. You will lose all credibility in my book.

Theres no question that we could use a shutdown corner.

But are there any in this draft?

Probably not. I don't want to invest in a CB who will ultimately be "solid" but not shutdown. Thats what we would be doing in this draft. None of these CBs have Antonio Cromartie ceilings. Maybe McCauley, but he's a major gamble, and a round 2 guy anyway, where I wouldn't be opposed to nabbing a CB.

In a perfect world, we would nab both. But in a draft thats pretty weak, I rather get the higher graded talent. And the safeties (who are also a need for us) simply have a much higher grade than the round 1 CBs in this draft. We come out with more talent with a round 1 safety, plus fill what is ultimately a need anyway.

Im simply not a fan of drafting round 1 CBs who provide no shut down potential. None of these guys do.

I can live with a round 2 CB. But I wouldn't take a round 1 CB over a guy like Nelson. We'd be sacrificing too much grade to do that.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 06:22 PM
Seems to me that you've fallen in love with Nelson and are willing to draft him despite the fact that we have bigger needs. I can almost assure you that we will not draft a safety in round one. We have 4 or 5 greater needs.

1a. OLB
1b. CB
1c. WR - I can't decide which is the biggest.
2. DT
3. O-line depth
4. RB
5. Safety
6. Kicker

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 06:29 PM
We didn't get pressure because 3 of our 4 DEs went down. Plus Tim Lewis never blitzed, so teams just chipped/doubled up our Ends and that was that.

With Spagnuola, expect a very different scheme. We will blitz early and often. Couple the fact that our dline is better than the Eagles dline, he's gonna get pressure on the qb.

The issue will be coverage. We need CBs and Safeties who can hold up in man coverage. Reggie provides that playmaker our secondary has been missing for quite some time. He's a playmaker who will make plays on the ball, and he'll create turnovers. Thats just what we need.

We have the ability to create pressure. Now with Spags, we have a DC who will utilize that ability. Now we need to compliment it with a player in the secondary who can capitalize off the pressure and create turnovers. Thats what Reggie Nelson can do better than any player in this draft.im liking your thought process i most defiantly concur with you. im really excited about what spags will do for our d# this year. i think reggie would be a great fit and give us some depth. weather it be demps coming of the bench or putting gibril on the trading block for a round 2 and picking up Meriweather..

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 06:37 PM
I'm forced to bring this link up agian. Voted on by almost 3500 giant fans.

http://www.webpollcentral.com/v2/?id=32818&user=kennedye

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 06:44 PM
so what ricky, we can get a LB in round 2 if necessary. i think spags is going to make a world of difference for us.

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 06:49 PM
so what ricky, we can get a LB in round 2 if necessary. i think spags is going to make a world of difference for us.

Ok??? Did you also see the large portion taken up by CB? Safety was amongst the lowest in percentages. This is the only site where i've found Giant fans crying for a safety.

hugepunch
03-08-2007, 06:53 PM
we can get a corner in round 2 or a backer why should we waste a 1st round pick on decent talent at cb..

ricky bobby
03-08-2007, 06:56 PM
Ok so we've established that CB and OLB is a bigger need than Safety. Then we need another WR, O-line depth, another DT, another RB, and then finally safety. But that's my opinion. Reese's too, we talk for about an hour each day on the phone.

joepas171
03-08-2007, 07:33 PM
Ok??? Did you also see the large portion taken up by CB? Safety was amongst the lowest in percentages. This is the only site where i've found Giant fans crying for a safety.

must be a good site then cause Safety is a much bigger NEED/WANT than CB
because Demps played like a bum and the value at S is much higher than Cb in the draft. Demps could go right to the bench for all I care if we snagged a PM at safety. (he did improve towards the end of the year, I'll give him that).
Too little to late, thx Wil. The MAJOR problem with our coverage was in the middle because of the safeties and LBs. The Cbs did nothing spectacular but there is talent to be found on the roster.

Wilson is a good SS with probowl potential. Doubtful he could make the transition to FS tho.

Snag the best available safety or Lb in the first. They are there to be had. That said , I wouldnt be disappointed with a playmaking CB either, just dont see one that stands out.

moc182
03-08-2007, 07:38 PM
Seems to me that you've fallen in love with Nelson and are willing to draft him despite the fact that we have bigger needs. I can almost assure you that we will not draft a safety in round one. We have 4 or 5 greater needs.

1a. OLB
1b. CB
1c. WR - I can't decide which is the biggest.
2. DT
3. O-line depth
4. RB
5. Safety
6. Kicker


And defensive end was our biggest need last year? The draft is about accumulating talent, not filling needs, especially in the first round.

dhoe20
03-08-2007, 07:51 PM
Meh, even without his pro-day he was going to be picked before 20. No chance he drops this far now.

I can't wait til the FSU pro-day. I want to see how Timmons does there. Devin Hester ran a poor 40 time at the combine too, so that's why I don't trust the combine times yet.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2007, 08:06 AM
I'm forced to bring this link up agian. Voted on by almost 3500 giant fans.

http://www.webpollcentral.com/v2/?id=32818&user=kennedye

Ricky, that doesn't mean anything. Big deal, a bunch of Giant fans in a poll want a CB. No offense, and don't get me wrong, I love my fellow Giant fans, but 90% of the casual giants fans can't tell their head from their ass. Again, look at the film, then come back to me. You'll see that our safeties gave up big plays up the middle of the field much more often than our CBs gave up plays on the sidelines.

And I want to reiterate, I don't have a problem with taking a CB. I just have a problem taking a round 1 CB. I don't think the value is there to warrant a CB in round 1. We can gamble on a guy like McCauley in round 2, who has the measureables to become a shut down corner, or if Chris Houston slips to round 2, Id have no problem taking him, but I don't want a CB in round 1. The value simply isn't there. We shouldn't sacrifice that much grade for need. Theres a fine line, and you can't force the issue just because.

Also, Dameion Hughes will be available later, maybe even round 4. I know he put up a slow 40, but at that point in the draft I wouldn't be opposed to drafting him at all. I think he's another example of a guy who plays faster than he times.

Again, I have no problems with a CB, but I think we would be forcing the issue in round 1, where the talent at CB doesn't warrant round 1 grade.

The safeties which is also a need for us, definately warrant a round 1 grade.

ricky bobby
03-09-2007, 08:08 AM
Casual fans don't go to BBI, especially during the offseason. That is for the devoted.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2007, 08:15 AM
Casual fans don't go to BBI, especially during the offseason. That is for the devoted.

I just feel that the value isn't there in round 1. We're better off addressing the issue in round 2.

Also, I have a feeling that alot of CBs will slip in this draft. Remember, last year, everybody loaded up on CBs, there was like 7 of em taken in round 1. I think the demand for CBs this year as a result of that along with other more pressing needs for other teams, coupled with the demand for safeties this year, will cause alot of CBs that you would like in round 1 to slip to round 2. Remember also, teams are gonna go after WR alot this year, thus making the CBs in this draft slip even further.

Just because someone is graded as a round 1 CB doesn't mean that he'll be gone in round 1. Every team has their own needs, and I can see a CB or 2 slip to round 2.

Look at Mark Andersen last year. 5th ranked DE, which just as much of a in demand position if not more, he fell to the 5th round.

ricky bobby
03-09-2007, 08:22 AM
Well we could address CB in round 2, i agree. But, when will we address LB. If you look under the giant discussion, i posted something that claims the giants will look at a LB in round one. That would move S to round three, if it was in fact the 3rd need, which it's not.

hugepunch
03-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Well we could address CB in round 2, i agree. But, when will we address LB. If you look under the giant discussion, i posted something that claims the giants will look at a LB in round one. That would move S to round three, if it was in fact the 3rd need, which it's not.thats just a smoke screen the giants dont want people knowing who they like and dislike.

ricky bobby
03-09-2007, 08:32 AM
thats just a smoke screen the giants dont want people knowing who they like and dislike.

Well cutting our two starting OLBs might give it away. Genius.

bigbluedefense
03-09-2007, 08:34 AM
Well cutting our two starting OLBs might give it away. Genius.

Not if Reese feels confident in Wilkinson and Chase. Its tough to gauge. From his press conference, it sounded like he was very willing to give Wilkinson and Chase a shot at the starting job. So who knows.

LB and CB was apparently what we were looking for last year. What did we do? We drafted a DE. So nobody really knows. And we have no draft history to go by to make accurate predictions either.

Forenci
03-09-2007, 10:10 AM
I think it's funny how we're debating about Nelson when it's likely he'll be gone before our pick. Safety is becoming an extremely important posistion in the NFL, and as so, more will be taken on day one, and round one.

I'm not sure I can condone getting Nelson to be honest. Everyone argues it's always about taking "the best player available" in round one. I disagree, I think it's about taking the best player available for a spot you need filled. Safety, particulary Free Safety, isn't my number one concern. I can live with Will Demps and Gibril. However, I cannot live with Madison, Webster and McQuarters as our corners. Nor can I live with Reggie Torbor and Brandon Short as linebackers starting for us.

If no good OLB's or corners are available, amd Reggie Nelson somehow falls to us, I have nothing against grabbing him. Otherwise, I say we pass on him.

ricky bobby
03-09-2007, 10:13 AM
I think it's funny how we're debating about Nelson when it's likely he'll be gone before our pick. Safety is becoming an extremely important posistion in the NFL, and as so, more will be taken on day one, and round one.

I'm not sure I can condone getting Nelson to be honest. Everyone argues it's always about taking "the best player available" in round one. I disagree, I think it's about taking the best player available for a spot you need filled. Safety, particulary Free Safety, isn't my number one concern. I can live with Will Demps and Gibril. However, I cannot live with Madison, Webster and McQuarters as our corners. Nor can I live with Reggie Torbor and Brandon Short as linebackers starting for us.

If no good OLB's or corners are available, amd Reggie Nelson somehow falls to us, I have nothing against grabbing him. Otherwise, I say we pass on him.
LOL. Nelson will slip right past us, the cowboys, and right to the San Deigo Chargers.

Forenci
03-09-2007, 10:22 AM
LOL. Nelson will slip right past us, the cowboys, and right to the San Deigo Chargers.

Heh, I doubt that. There were originally talks of him going before Landry. I can only imagine this, "wet grass 40" will amp him up a bit higher. Though, you never know. He might end up having the Donte Whitner effect, going higher than he should.

Da KO King
03-09-2007, 01:45 PM
:cool: My first post. :cool:

Count me in with the guys that would take a safety in the first. Safety play for the Giants this season was pretty poor. I admit corner play wasn't much better.

However, at least with better safeties and an improved pass rush (let's hope the new scheme works) you can use bracket coverages to improve CB play.

bigbluedefense
03-10-2007, 09:00 AM
:cool: My first post. :cool:

Count me in with the guys that would take a safety in the first. Safety play for the Giants this season was pretty poor. I admit corner play wasn't much better.

However, at least with better safeties and an improved pass rush (let's hope the new scheme works) you can use bracket coverages to improve CB play.

Welcome to the board. Thank you, you understand the Xs and Os of the scheme. We can mask deficiencies at CB, but its much harder to do with safeties, unless you have a killer CB duo, something we do not have.

Toonster is really good at evaluating talent, and this is what he said about Nelson:

Agree. I like Landry a lot, but Nelson has more "dynamism", if that's the right word for it, and has immense upside. Landry will likely be solid and steady for many years.

And I agree with it. Landry is the better "prospect" and safer pick, but Nelson has more dynamism if you will. I really like the kid's potential.

Unfortunately, I highly doubt we get him anymore. With Jacksonville losing Deion Grant, its almost a foregone conclusion that theyre gonna get a safety in the draft. The only hope we have is if Landry falls to Jacksonville, that would require ATL to pass him up, and thats asking alot. The only way I see them doing that is if they move Jimmy Williams to FS.

*crosses fingers*

hugepunch
03-10-2007, 09:11 AM
lets be honest though were not going to sign edwards.. i rather have him too. edit: oops wrong topic

BigBlue58KiperIII
03-10-2007, 11:53 AM
I was one to say we need a safety a couple months ago, but now i feel the holes we have at Linebacker and are need at corner is more important than grabbing a safety even though Nelson is a better ballhawk than Demps or Gibril.

Im a bigger Gibril fan than most, and feel we underrate him compared to who else we have back there, and even Pasquarelli feels he is worth a second round pick for a team looking for a safety. Now if someone want to give us a 2nd i said i wouldnt match it, but Gibril makes plays, he is always around the ball and although he is not great in coverage we could do worse. I just feel like a Demps/Gibril combo is a capable safety tandem and we need to take care of other positions before we look at safety. If Gibril leaves then I have no problem with it.

Da KO King
03-11-2007, 05:52 PM
I was one to say we need a safety a couple months ago, but now i feel the holes we have at Linebacker and are need at corner is more important than grabbing a safety even though Nelson is a better ballhawk than Demps or Gibril...

I agree the holes at LB and CB need filling quickly. With that said, there just aren't really any CB's or LB's that will likely be available at 20 unless the Giants "reach" on a guy and take him earlier than projected.

hugegmenfan
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
I agree the holes at LB and CB need filling quickly. With that said, there just aren't really any CB's or LB's that will likely be available at 20 unless the Giants "reach" on a guy and take him earlier than projected.

i strongly disagree with that statement- i think chris houston, darelle revis, lawrence timmons, paul poz would not be reaches @ 20 and would b perfectly acceptable to take there

scottyboy
03-11-2007, 07:25 PM
bigbluekiper- itotally agree with gibril. one of my favorites(actually talked to him on the phone today!!!!) i think he is one of the few good players in the secondary, he and nelson would be nice, but gibril and demps with speedy, better CBs would be very nice. i feel spags likes gibril and wants him around and gibril would fit nicely in his system. i feel we shouldnt pass up revis if he falls, houston is good as well

my bold prediction- gibril wilson will be a pro bowler under spags this year!!