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View Full Version : AFC North vs. AFC South: Best Division All Pro Team


diabsoule
05-13-2009, 10:09 AM
AFC North
QB - Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)
RB - Willie Parker (PIT)
FB - Le'Ron McClain (BAL)
WR - Hines Ward (PIT)
WR - Chad Ochocinco (CIN)
TE - Heath Miller (PIT)
LT - Joe Thomas (CLE)
LG - Eric Steinbach (CLE)
C - Matt Birk (BAL)
RG - Ben Grubbs (BAL)
RT - Jared Gaither (BAL)

DE - Aaron Smith (PIT)
NT - Shaun Rogers (CLE)
DE - Haloti Ngata (BAL)
OLB - James Harrison (PIT)
ILB - Ray Lewis (BAL)
ILB - James Farrior (PIT)
OLB - Terrell Suggs (BAL)
CB - Leon Hall (CIN)
CB - Ike Taylor (PIT)
FS - Ed Reed (BAL)
SS - Troy Polamalu (SS)

5 Notable Reserves: DE/OLB LaMarr Woodley (PIT), WR Braylon Edwards (CLE), CB Eric Wright (CLE), LB D'Qwell Jackson (CLE), WR Derrick Mason (BAL)



AFC South
QB - Peyton Manning - Colts
RB - Maurice Jones-Drew - Jaguars
FB - Greg Jones - Jaguars
WR - Andre Johnson - Texans
WR - Reggie Wayne - Colts
TE - Dallas Clark - Colts
LT - Michael Roos - Titans
LG - Vince Manuwai - Jaguars
C - Kevin Mawae - Titans
RG - Jake Scott - Titans
RT - David Stewart - Titans

LE - Mario Williams - Texans
DT - John Henderson - Jaguars
DT - Tony Brown - Titans
RE - Dwight Freeney - Colts
WLB - David Thornton - Titans
MLB - DeMeco Ryans - Texans
SLB - Keith Bullock - Titans
CB - Cortland Finnegan - Titans
CB - Rashean Mathis - Jaguars
FS - Michael Griffin - Titans
SS - Bob Sanders - Colts

5 Notable Reserves: DE Kyle Vanden Bosch (TEN), WR Torry Holt (JAX), CB Kelvin Hayden (IND), DE Robert Mathis (IND), TE Owen Daniels (HOU)

falloutboy14
05-13-2009, 10:22 AM
5 Notable Reserves: DE Kyle Vanden Bosch (TEN), WR Torry Holt (JAX), CB Kelvin Hayden (IND), DT Amobi Okoye (HOU), TE Owen Daniels (HOU)

Don't forget Robert Mathis. The AFC South has to have the best set of DEs in the league.

cdub11
05-13-2009, 10:25 AM
This is the best matchup so far

diabsoule
05-13-2009, 10:43 AM
I have a feeling, though, that the AFC North would win. Peyton Manning struggled against 3-4 defenses and this is a beastly 3-4.

AFCN DL vs. AFCS OL - I think this is a wash. Both are extremely balanced.
AFCN OL vs. AFCS DL - Slight edge to the AFC North OL. Their just more well-rounded, esp. the left side of their line.

Ravens1991
05-13-2009, 10:45 AM
I think that front 7 would terrorize Manning. But AFC south defense is good also. It would be a great game

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
05-13-2009, 10:47 AM
Ravens Defense + Steelers Defense would be unstoppable I don't care who is on the offense.

Gay Ork Wang
05-13-2009, 10:49 AM
oh man Peyton Manning to Andre Johnson, Wayne or MJD

Mr. Hero
05-13-2009, 10:54 AM
Don't forget Robert Mathis. The AFC South has to have the best set of DEs in the league.

Osi, Tuck, Cole, Carter, Kiwi and sometimes Ware? Or how about Peppers, Abraham, Adams, Smith and Grant? I don't think any division really has the best DEs, the AFCS, NFCS and NFCE all have some great DEs.

falloutboy14
05-13-2009, 10:57 AM
I have a feeling, though, that the AFC North would win. Peyton Manning struggled against 3-4 defenses and this is a beastly 3-4.

Since the '03 season, Peyton's 13-1 against the AFC North. 12-0 in the regular season, 1-1 in the playoffs. The 3-4 may give Manning fits, but the Steelers/Ravens not-so-much.

Bigburt63
05-13-2009, 11:49 AM
this is definitely the best matchup thus far. The AFCN 3-4 is just ridiculous, but that offense for the AFCS is insane in its own right

terribletowel39
05-13-2009, 11:56 AM
If it was Fred Taylor still with Jags and he was the RB, I would say there was a better chance for the South to win. But as is, I don't know if any team could move the ball too effectively on that defense. Sickness.

Just noticed every player on the AFCN defense (minus the CBs) are in the debate for top player at their position. That is CRAZY.

The Unseen
05-13-2009, 12:14 PM
I voted AFC South to represent, but thinking it over the AFC North is probably better. That defense is sick.

themaninblack
05-13-2009, 12:38 PM
I don't know if I would put Leon Hall on the team ahead of Johnathan Joseph but if this is supposed to reflect last season then I can buy it. I would also go say Andrew Whitworth is a better LG than Eric Steinbach but thats really just splittin hairs with that one.

As for the matchup, this one is a pretty good one but I think the AFCN defense would ultimately win out. Doesn't get much better than that, IMO.

terribletowel39
05-13-2009, 12:44 PM
I don't know if I would put Leon Hall on the team ahead of Johnathan Joseph but if this is supposed to reflect last season then I can buy it. I would also go say Andrew Whitworth is a better LG than Eric Steinbach but thats really just splittin hairs with that one.

As for the matchup, this one is a pretty good one but I think the AFCN defense would ultimately win out. Doesn't get much better than that, IMO.
I agree with you on Joseph. Definitely better than every other corner in the AFCN not named Ike Taylor. And he has the potential to be top 6-7 in the NFL.

Crazy_Chris
05-13-2009, 01:37 PM
I like the AFC north defense too much to vote against them here. That front 7 is fully capable of shutting down the running game by itself. Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu will be having fun with some bad passes created by the pressure of James Harrison and Terrel Suggs, and Lamar Woodley.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2009, 01:50 PM
This is the best matchup so far

Agreed, this was really tough for me, but it came down to the trenches, and I think when you include Harrison and Suggs roles, that put that DL at an advantage over the AFC South, OL. Though the south has a beastly DL as well, the North's OL is notably better than the south's OL, and they would be able to match up better that the South's OL does to the North's DL.

jkpigskin
05-13-2009, 01:54 PM
this matchup is a clear cut case of strong O vs. Strong D. And ill go with the sick D of the afc north.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2009, 02:04 PM
this matchup is a clear cut case of strong O vs. Strong D. And ill go with the sick D of the afc north.

The South's D was wpretty good too, lots of talent in the LB corp especially, and a good, young secondary.

jkpigskin
05-13-2009, 02:29 PM
The South's D was wpretty good too, lots of talent in the LB corp especially, and a good, young secondary.

yea, no doubt since this is an allstar team for the divisions.
I just see the explosiveness of Peyton and Co. vs. the 2 best D's in the league

BmoreBlackByrdz
05-13-2009, 02:29 PM
Dominquie Foxworth should be starting over Leon Hall. But anyways, I voted for the North, just way too much talent on the defense. A crazy pass rush along with the 2 best safeties NFL. That unit would just simply overwhelm opposing offenses, they'd have to account for Suggs, Harrison, Reed, Polumalu, and Lewis every play.

themaninblack
05-13-2009, 02:37 PM
I agree with you on Joseph. Definitely better than every other corner in the AFCN not named Ike Taylor. And he has the potential to be top 6-7 in the NFL.

Leon is a great CB in his own right but I feel like JJ could be one of the top CBs in the NFL as far as his potential. He probably has the skill set to be even better than Ike(and Ike is no slouch), but he would need to be healthy for a change. Those two(Leon and JJ) form one of the best young CB duos in the NFL IMO.

This division is actually going to have a pretty nice stable of CBs this year with the addition of Foxworth along with the emergence of Leon and Jonathan Joseph, which has been somewhat of a weak point in years past.

diabsoule
05-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Keep the votes coming in!

http://cndls.georgetown.edu/applications/posterTool/data/users/voteordie.gif

Tomorrow will be the final matchup between the NFC North vs. NFC South.

Also coming up will be the championship rounds! AFC East vs. the winner of the AFC North vs. AFC South matchup and the NFC East vs. the winner of the NFC North vs. NFC South matchup.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2009, 02:54 PM
yea, no doubt since this is an allstar team for the divisions.
I just see the explosiveness of Peyton and Co. vs. the 2 best D's in the league

Even relative to the all-star teams, that is a great LB corp, with great talent all over the place, even when you stack it up against the other all-star teams, it is just as good if not better than most.

cunit2k9
05-13-2009, 03:18 PM
This is a great matchup. AFC North defense takes it though.

DoughBoy
05-13-2009, 03:43 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2009, 03:49 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.

Unfortunately, no RBs are going to reach the LBs with that line though...

terribletowel39
05-13-2009, 04:02 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.
Except the last time the Titans played the Ravens, Suggs got a sack and the last time the Titans played the Steelers, Harrison got a sack....so not a very good case. Peyton getting sacked twice is a pretty rare occasion and when it does happen, he gets rattled. Just something to think about when saying Peyton won't get touched.

And neither three times was any RB allowed over 76 yards. So that line couldn't get Johnson over 76 yards against either and this time it is their combined strengths?? C'mon, its not happening.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 04:02 PM
I went with the AFC South, obviously.

The AFCS offense is better in almost every area, though the OL may be a wash.

Manning behind the Titans OL would rape the AFCN defense. The Titans OL gave up a grand total of 2 sacks in 2 games against the Ravens and 1 game against the Steelers. Peyton Manning having all day to throw the ball to Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne would carve up any defense.

I like the AFCN front 7 more, but I like the AFCS secondary more. Reed is the best FS in the NFL, but Griffin is the second best. Polamalu and Sanders are a wash, but Sanders is a DPOY in '07. Finny and Mathis are a better CB tandem than Taylor and Hall, and will make more plays.

Chris Johnson should also at least be in the AFC reserves. He ran for 185 yards in the 3 games against Pitt/BMore, averaged 4.1 YPC, and scored 2 TD's.

The Colts also went 1-0 against Baltimore (W 31-3) and 1-0 against Pitt (W 24-20). The Titans went 1-1 against Baltimore (W 13-10, L 10-13) and 1-0 against Pittsburgh (W 31-14). The South matches up better against the North.

CashmoneyDrew
05-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Except the last time the Titans played the Ravens, Suggs got a sack and the last time the Titans played the Steelers, Harrison got a sack....so not a very good case. Peyton getting sacked twice is a pretty rare occasion and when it does happen, he gets rattled. Just something to think about when saying Peyton won't get touched.

And neither three times was any RB allowed over 76 yards. So that line couldn't get Johnson over 76 yards against either and this time it is their combined strengths?? C'mon, its not happening.

Johnson was running wild in that playoff game before his first half injury though. And the Steelers definitely earned every thing they got this season, but had Johnson stayed healthy for that second half against the Ravens, it's entirely possible we could've had a different Super Bowl champion this past season.

But I'm not bitter or anything........

terribletowel39
05-13-2009, 04:07 PM
The fact you just said Sanders is on the same level as Polamalu makes the rest of your post unnoticeable. And there is a world of difference between Reed and Griffin, even if Griffin is the second best SS in the NFL, which he is not.

And like I said in the post above yours, 2 sacks against Manning and he starts to get jumpy.

Ravens1991
05-13-2009, 04:08 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.

I doubt they could handle the Ravens and Pitts front 7 together tough

terribletowel39
05-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Johnson was running wild in that playoff game before his first half injury though. And the Steelers definitely earned every thing they got this season, but had Johnson stayed healthy for that second half against the Ravens, it's entirely possible we could've had a different Super Bowl champion this past season.

But I'm not bitter or anything........
I actually, probably, would have preferred to play yall in the AFCCG. Just because of what Kearse and White did 5-6 weeks prior. It would NOT have been the same game. Our players take the towel very seriously.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 04:14 PM
The fact you just said Sanders is on the same level as Polamalu makes the rest of your post unnoticeable. And there is a world of difference between Reed and Griffin, even if Griffin is the second best SS in the NFL, which he is not.

And like I said in the post above yours, 2 sacks against Manning and he starts to get jumpy.

The fact that you listed Griffin as a SS makes your post look like what?

It's cute though. Pick out one part of my post that you disagree with, then calling the rest irrelevant.

The Titans OL allowed 2 sacks in 3 games. If you think that's enough to rattle Peyton Manning, you're mistaken. It wasn't even enough to shake Kerry frickin' Collins.

DoughBoy
05-13-2009, 04:17 PM
Except the last time the Titans played the Ravens, Suggs got a sack and the last time the Titans played the Steelers, Harrison got a sack....so not a very good case. Peyton getting sacked twice is a pretty rare occasion and when it does happen, he gets rattled. Just something to think about when saying Peyton won't get touched.

And neither three times was any RB allowed over 76 yards. So that line couldn't get Johnson over 76 yards against either and this time it is their combined strengths?? C'mon, its not happening.

Wow 1 sack in each game . You really want to sit there and tell me you got after kerry in that game? PLEASE. I like how you combine 2 games to make yourself look good. And if I remember correctly( and I do) James Harrison Got his lights knocked out in the game agianst us.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 04:43 PM
I doubt they could handle the Ravens and Pitts front 7 together tough

You're talking about the NFL MVP being blocked by an offensive line that had 3 NFL All-Pro's and passing to one of the top two WR' in the NFL. That's without including Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and MJD/Chris Johnson/Steve Slaton.

The Pitt/Bal Front-7 combo is beastly, but we're talking about combining the trenches of the Titans and Jaguars and the skill of the Colts and Texans. It's unanimous that the AFCN Front-7 is better than the AFCS, although the most talented DE in the NFL and one of the best pure-pass-rushers aren't anything to scoff at, but it's demonstrable that the AFCS OL matches up very well with them.

falloutboy14
05-13-2009, 04:57 PM
Peyton getting sacked twice is a pretty rare occasion and when it does happen, he gets rattled. Just something to think about when saying Peyton won't get touched.

Rattled enough to throw the ball 40 times for 3 TDs & 0 Ints? Yeah you got to him all right.:rolleyes:

The last 3 games vs the Steelers/Ravens(9 of the 11 defenders come from) Peyton's thrown 10 TDs, and 0 picks. Well, maybe I should say 2.5 games, since Peyton sat out most of the 2nd half in Baltimore after throwing 13/17 for 271 yards & 4 TDs. In those three games, 0 turnovers committed by the Colts offense.

Now shall we talk about how well Roethlisberger handled the Colts pass rush?

Sacked twice, and threw 0 TDs, 3 picks. Now to me ... that sounds rattled.:)

coordinator0
05-13-2009, 05:07 PM
You're talking about the NFL MVP being blocked by an offensive line that had 3 NFL All-Pro's and passing to one of the top two WR' in the NFL. That's without including Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and MJD/Chris Johnson/Steve Slaton.

The Pitt/Bal Front-7 combo is beastly, but we're talking about combining the trenches of the Titans and Jaguars and the skill of the Colts and Texans. It's unanimous that the AFCN Front-7 is better than the AFCS, although the most talented DE in the NFL and one of the best pure-pass-rushers aren't anything to scoff at, but it's demonstrable that the AFCS OL matches up very well with them.

I would also say the AFCN offensive line also matches up extremely well with the AFCS defensive line. Joe Thomas and Jared Gaither blocking on the outside is beastly. The inside lineman aren't too shabby in their own right.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
05-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.

Yea but together it will be a disaster.

falloutboy14
05-13-2009, 06:01 PM
Yea but together it will be a disaster.

The Titans O-line with the Colts/others skill positions would be up to the task. You may be able to cover Gage & McCareins in single coverage and get away with it, but not Wayne/Johnson. That would be a disaster.

CashmoneyDrew
05-13-2009, 06:07 PM
The Titans O-line with the Colts/others skill positions would be up to the task. You may be able to cover Gage & McCareins in single coverage and get away with it, but not Wayne/Johnson. That would be a disaster.

Yeah, Ike Taylor and Leon Hall are solid, but Manning with those WRs would rape those corners.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 06:11 PM
I would also say the AFCN offensive line also matches up extremely well with the AFCS defensive line. Joe Thomas and Jared Gaither blocking on the outside is beastly. The inside lineman aren't too shabby in their own right.

It's hard to compare the AFCN OL/AFCS DL aside from what you see on paper, since 2 OL's are from Bal, 2 OL's are from Cle, and 1 OL is a new FA, and all four AFCS teams are represented along the DL. But, the Colts sacked Flacco 4 times and Derek Anderson 3 times. Houston sacked Flacco 3 times and Anderson 0 times. Tennessee sacked Flacco 0 times and Ken Dorsey 1 time. And Jacksonville sacked Flacco 2 times and Anderson 1 time. So they've had some success in their own right.

The thing is that the AFCS DL isn't the unit that had to play well to win. The AFCN DL would have to play well in order to stop the AFCS offense.

Yea but together it will be a disaster.

Based on what, RWO?

Bucs_Rule
05-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Everyone is talking about the South O vs North D because their the 2 best units. The other matchup is just as important, I just think the North O will struggle vs the South D. Chad Johnson and Ward aren't the WRs that they used to be.

OzTitan
05-13-2009, 06:30 PM
The Titans OL is good at pass blocking, but is it silly good? because that front 7 of the AFCN is silly good. When one team makes up 4 players in a 5 player unit like the OL in a fantasy team like this, to me it is probably too realistic to seriously think they can take on a pure fantasy front 7. I mean, it's basically the Titans offensive line vs the best 3-4 front 7 you can think of - it seems like reality vs fantasy. What the AFC South team needed was the Titans 08 OL and the Colts OL in their prime and then you'd have a fantasy OL unit capable of taking on that front 7, even if it's just because it would be a fantasy OL and not basically a real OL.

Anyway, as a regular season game the AFCS win, as a playoff game, probably the AFCN.

LonghornsLegend
05-13-2009, 06:33 PM
I voted AFC South.


I find it hard to vote against Peyton with All-Pro Offensive Lineman, Reggie Wayne & Andre Johnson at WR, and a backfield combo of MJD/Chris Johnson...Yes I know the North has an incredible defense but that offense would need to score points and I think the AFCS defense would have a huge advantage over the offense of the AFCN.


The South D-Line is pretty strong anytime you have Mario, Freeney, and John Henderson on it, a strong set of corners, and two pro bowl safeties who are playing at an elite level.


The South is more well rounded on both sides of the ball, the North is just incredible on defense and that would be good enough except vs Peyton with so many weapons.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 07:07 PM
The Titans OL is good at pass blocking, but is it silly good? because that front 7 of the AFCN is silly good. When one team makes up 4 players in a 5 player unit like the OL in a fantasy team like this, to me it is probably too realistic to seriously think they can take on a pure fantasy front 7. I mean, it's basically the Titans offensive line vs the best 3-4 front 7 you can think of - it seems like reality vs fantasy. What the AFC South team needed was the Titans 08 OL and the Colts OL in their prime and then you'd have a fantasy OL unit capable of taking on that front 7, even if it's just because it would be a fantasy OL and not basically a real OL.

I think the Steelers LB's could very well be the All-AFCN LB corps. They already have Harrison and Farrior, so it'd be the difference between Lawrence Timmons/Ray Lewis and Lamarr Woodley/Terrell Suggs. Lewis is better than Timmons, but Timmons can provide some things that Lewis can't, especially in coverage. And I can't say that Suggs is measurably better than Woodley. So even if it's fantasy, they're only players taken from 4 teams, so I can believe a fantasy unit can be from one team - Boldin and Fitz could make up the NFCW WR's, and Jared Allen, Pat Williams, and Kevin Williams could make up the NFCN DL.

Besides, aside from the statistics from the games, the Titans OL had two 1st Team All-Pro's in Roos and Mawae, and one 2nd Team All-Pro in David Stewart. If our OL isn't silly good, it's pretty close. We're really spoiled in that regard.

I voted AFC North...

You voted South though, LL... :confused:

LonghornsLegend
05-13-2009, 07:10 PM
That's what I meant to say, I voted for the AFC South, and that's what my post was supposed to be describing, but seeing AFCN and AFCS so many times on one page threw me off :(

DoughBoy
05-13-2009, 07:11 PM
Yea but together it will be a disaster.

Good point, you won me over.

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 07:16 PM
That's what I meant to say, I voted for the AFC South, and that's what my post was supposed to be describing, but seeing AFCN and AFCS so many times on one page threw me off :(

Not to mention, the Titans/Oilers used to be in the same division as the AFC North teams when they all were in the old AFC Central.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
05-13-2009, 07:20 PM
Aaron Smith/Shaun Rodgers/Haloti Ngata would eat that O-line alive. You can say well when they played this team they did this or did that because having those 3 guys at one time would be totally different than having one at a time. I don't think that o-line could handle it.

etk
05-13-2009, 07:44 PM
Peyton Manning

/thread

TitanHope
05-13-2009, 08:18 PM
Aaron Smith/Shaun Rodgers/Haloti Ngata would eat that O-line alive. You can say well when they played this team they did this or did that because having those 3 guys at one time would be totally different than having one at a time. I don't think that o-line could handle it.

What you're saying is bogus. The Titans OL more than held their own against Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton, but because it's Shaun Rogers and not Hampton, they'll get handled. There's a flaw in what you're saying because the Steelers and Ravens DL had good players outside of Smith and Ngata. Yes, on paper, Smith/Rogers/Ngata are better, but it's not as if the Titans could focus on Aaron Smith in their game - they had to block Casey Hampton too. Same with Baltimore - Ngata and Pryce are no slouch. Not to mention, the Baltimore and Pittsburgh DEF's were the two best in the NFL and were blitz happy, yet they were able to keep Collins clean.

Plus, Vince Manuwai is an upgrade over Eugene Amano. Leroy Harris was able to predominantly block Ngata 1-on-1 in the Playoff game, and he's Mawae's backup. And lets not forget about the benefits of having Peyton Manning making line calls and his ability to get rid of the ball quickly if need be.

ccB
05-14-2009, 08:53 AM
This Best Division All Pro Team game has basically turned into a homer fest where all the fans of a division vote for their divisions team so I will follow suit :)

I obviously voted for the AFC North, that front 7 is absolutely filthy, I don't care how much Titans fans keep lobbying about how their line handled us or how their line handled the Steelers, their line didn't handle that front 7, and I don't think many offensive lines could. Add in the fact that you have the sickest safety duo of all time Ooooh weeee!

The AFC North's offense may not be very "sexy" but that is an offense that could competently manage the clock in an efficient manner over the course of a game dominated by defense. This team is basically the super human version of the team that won the super bowl.

Bills2083
05-14-2009, 09:25 AM
That front 7 for the North is scary.
Plus, they have the two best safeties in the game.

I voted for them.

tylerb929
05-14-2009, 10:11 AM
The fact you just said Sanders is on the same level as Polamalu makes the rest of your post unnoticeable.
Plus, they have the two best safeties in the game.

Do people really think Polamalu is better than Sanders? And if so, do you really think they're not even "on the same level"? I mean, assuming Bob is healthy, which for this scenario he would be.

I would also say the AFCN offensive line also matches up extremely well with the AFCS defensive line. Joe Thomas and Jared Gaither blocking on the outside is beastly.

I'd have to say Gaither lined up against either Mario Williams or Dwight Freeney one on one would be a match up heavily favoring the AFC South.

bam bam
05-14-2009, 10:25 AM
I'd have to say Gaither lined up against either Mario Williams or Dwight Freeney one on one would be a match up heavily favoring the AFC South.

You mean the same Gaither that did not allow Mario Williams to get a sack this past year when the Texans played the Ravens? The same Gaither that did not allow Mario Williams to get a sack in College when his UMD played NC State?

ccB
05-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Do people really think Polamalu is better than Sanders? And if so, do you really think they're not even "on the same level"? I mean, assuming Bob is healthy, which for this scenario he would be.



I'd have to say Gaither lined up against either Mario Williams or Dwight Freeney one on one would be a match up heavily favoring the AFC South.

Gaither shut Mario down in College, and did the same when the Ravens and Texans played, add that to the fact that he only allowed what 3 sacks all last season, don't think it is as favorable as you think it is.

ccB
05-14-2009, 10:49 AM
You mean the same Gaither that did not allow Mario Williams to get a sack this past year when the Texans played the Ravens? The same Gaither that did not allow Mario Williams to get a sack in College when his UMD played NC State?

Ah you beat me to it....

tylerb929
05-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Just because he didn't allow a sack doesn't mean it necessarily favors him.

Ryan Diem, the Colts RT, only allowed 1.5 sacks last year. He started all 16 games and gave up the lowest amount of sacks per game for a RT last year. And none of his sacks came against anyone on that AFC North roster, does that mean he's going to shut them down?

I would doubt it. Heck, he wasn't even put on the AFC South's roster.

ccB
05-14-2009, 11:34 AM
Just because he didn't allow a sack doesn't mean it necessarily favors him.

Ryan Diem, the Colts RT, only allowed 1.5 sacks last year. He started all 16 games and gave up the lowest amount of sacks per game for a RT last year. And none of his sacks came against anyone on that AFC North roster, does that mean he's going to shut them down?

I would doubt it. Heck, he wasn't even put on the AFC South's roster.

Ok well, Gaither made it so Mario Williams wasn't a game changer, pass rush or other wise, in a game where McGahee rushed for his season high and the Ravens blew out the Texans, how did that match up not favor him?

I also want to make it clear I am not trying to write off Mario Williams, he is one of my favorite players in the league, just pointing out Gaither has always performed well when matched up against him.

terribletowel39
05-14-2009, 11:37 AM
I agree with CCB, Gaithers is probably the single most gifted athlete in the NFL. It is ridiculous that that massive man can move as well as he does WHILE being as strong as he is.....AND that they got him in the 5th round.

Dam8610
05-14-2009, 03:17 PM
Ill make my case and say the titans O- line handled the Ravens and the Steelers when they played- nobody is going to be touching Peyton.

Not to mention Peyton did really well against both defenses without the help of a running game. Manning's combined line vs. Baltimore and Pittsburgh last season: 40-68 511 yards 7.5 YPA 6 TDs 0 INTs. That was without the help of Andre Johnson (Top 5 NFL WR) and an OL that can run block as well as pass block. I'm sure his numbers against those same players would only get better with more talent around him.

Dam8610
05-14-2009, 03:18 PM
I also want to make it clear I am not trying to write off Mario Williams, he is one of my favorite players in the league, just pointing out Gaither has always performed well when matched up against him.

Fine, match Freeney up against him, Freeney's better suited to play RE anyway, and Mario is MUCH better suited for LE.

Smooth Criminal
05-14-2009, 03:26 PM
AFCN defense is probably the best any division can put together. The front 7 is dominating, and the dbacks are great as well. Team has so damn good offense, but not as much as the South.

I think the North wins this by putting pressure on Manning and forcing him to make mistakes.

tylerb929
05-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Okay, well here are some interesting stats. Based on the data in this thread http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33694 on sacks allowed.....

The AFC South O-linemen only allowed 3.5 sacks all year combined, only 1 game was not started by any of the linemen and that was 1 game by Kevin Mawae. (Charlie Johnson was substituted for Vince Manuwai as he was injured all last year).

The AFC North O-linemen allowed 19 sacks all year combined, and 3 games were not started by the selected O-linemen.

The AFC South front 7 combined for 30.5 sacks.

The AFC North front 7 combined for 42 sacks.

So basicly if we're just using stats of who allowed sacks and who produced sacks, it looks like the O-line vs. front 7 arguement favors the AFC South.

Of course there are lots of variables, such as competition, the QB's ability to avoid pressure/quick release, and the amount of times the team actually attempts a pass.

MaxV
05-14-2009, 03:48 PM
I think AFC South would win.

Big Ben tends to hold on to the ball too long, which is NOT a good idea when you have Dwight Freeney and Mario Williams going after you.

djp
05-14-2009, 03:55 PM
The teams are too even, so I went with the better quarterback

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2009, 03:56 PM
I'd have to say Gaither lined up against either Mario Williams or Dwight Freeney one on one would be a match up heavily favoring the AFC South.

You mustn't have watched Gaither play that much, he is a beast at LT, he would be a great matchup against Mario (in terms of evenly matched), and would handle Freeney easily, he has the feet to neutralize Freeney pass rush, and the mauling run blocking to make him a non factor in the run game.

Ravens1991
05-14-2009, 04:03 PM
when the Ravens faced Houston. Mario Williams only had 4 tackles. 0 sacks, he wouldnt dominate Gaither

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2009, 04:09 PM
when the Ravens faced Houston. Mario Williams only had 4 tackles. 0 sacks, he wouldnt dominate Gaither

Agreed, I think it'd be a great matchup, two physical freaks at their position who are very good players as well.

coordinator0
05-14-2009, 04:47 PM
Fine, match Freeney up against him, Freeney's better suited to play RE anyway, and Mario is MUCH better suited for LE.

lol, Gaither is slotted at the RT spot and Joe Thomas at the LT in this fantasy team. That would still be putting Gaither up against Williams.

TitanHope
05-14-2009, 04:55 PM
This Best Division All Pro Team game has basically turned into a homer fest where all the fans of a division vote for their divisions team so I will follow suit :)

Lol, these threads are awesome! They're the only threads where homerism should be a prerequisite. Check your objectivity at the door my friend. These are the only threads where your division rivals become your allies. Rival players are no longer the over-rated garbage you thought they were, but are now the best players to ever play the position who totally earned that Pro Bowl, now that you think about it. These threads are why we American football!

The AFC North's offense may not be very "sexy" but that is an offense that could competently manage the clock in an efficient manner over the course of a game dominated by defense. This team is basically the super human version of the team that won the super bowl.

I think of it as if the 2000 Ravens and the 2007 Patriots faced off. Except bolsters the offense of the Ravens and defense of the Patriots. It'd be crazy.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2009, 05:32 PM
Lol, these threads are awesome! They're the only threads where homerism should be a prerequisite. Check your objectivity at the door my friend. These are the only threads where your division rivals become your allies. Rival players are no longer the over-rated garbage you thought they were, but are now the best players to ever play the position who totally earned that Pro Bowl, now that you think about it. These threads are why we American football!



I think of it as if the 2000 Ravens and the 2007 Patriots faced off. Except bolsters the offense of the Ravens and defense of the Patriots. It'd be crazy.

I disagree in the fact that they could manage the clock, the north's front 7 is built to stop the run, and that is what the main factor in controlling the clock is.

TitanHope
05-14-2009, 06:30 PM
I disagree in the fact that they could manage the clock, the north's front 7 is built to stop the run, and that is what the main factor in controlling the clock is.

Nobody said anything about the AFC South wanting to manage the clock. That was the AFC North offense, which Charm City Byrdgang said would try to do in order to compliment their defense.

The AFC South's offense will have the ability to throw the ball on that defense. Ike Taylor can't cover Andre Johnson 1-on-1, and Leon Hall can't cover Reggie Wayne 1-on-1. They'll need safety help, which will keep Reed and Polamalu out of the box, and will have to play zone, which Manning can carve up. That'd free up Dallas Clark and Owen Daniels to be covered by the LB's, all while the DEF has to account for homerun threats like Chris Johnson, MJD, and Slaton in the backfield.

The AFCN Defense is frightening, but the AFCS Offense is every bit the equal.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2009, 09:33 PM
Nobody said anything about the AFC South wanting to manage the clock. That was the AFC North offense, which Charm City Byrdgang said would try to do in order to compliment their defense.

The AFC South's offense will have the ability to throw the ball on that defense. Ike Taylor can't cover Andre Johnson 1-on-1, and Leon Hall can't cover Reggie Wayne 1-on-1. They'll need safety help, which will keep Reed and Polamalu out of the box, and will have to play zone, which Manning can carve up. That'd free up Dallas Clark and Owen Daniels to be covered by the LB's, all while the DEF has to account for homerun threats like Chris Johnson, MJD, and Slaton in the backfield.

The AFCN Defense is frightening, but the AFCS Offense is every bit the equal.

Oh ****...my reading abilities, FTL...

At the skill postions the AFC South is great, just as good, if not slgihtly better than the AFC North's, but time has proven that games are won in the trenches, and with the weapons the North has to stuff the run and sack the passer, that is where the north has the edge, and that is why I think the AFC North's offense has the edge.

Reed can cover an insane amount of ground, and though I agree the WR/CB matchups favor the south, the talent at S compensates for that. Both Polamalu and Reed are rangy, especially Reed. But with that front 7, you don't need either S up in the box (Reed isn't that type of player, anyway) as that front 7 is incredible, and it outmatches the AFC South's OL IMO.

jkpigskin
05-14-2009, 09:54 PM
to me, the more i look at this, i see this matchup as a beefed up version of the superbowl. The AFC north team looks like the steelers style of ball with a tough defense and an offense that can get the job done. The fact that Big Ben is our QB, gives the team a chance. The AFC south features an explosive passing attack, similar to one that the Arizona Cardinals featured.

i am really torn, and the only reason i voted afc north was the homerism in me, but i really dont know. If the North's corners were stronger, i would no doubt go with the north

TitanHope
05-14-2009, 11:23 PM
It just a shame that these two faced in the first round, cuz I think they're the two best in the AFC.

In the case of the unstoppable force vs the immovable object, the immovable object looks to be the winner.

diabsoule
05-15-2009, 12:09 AM
It just a shame that these two faced in the first round, cuz I think they're the two best in the AFC.

In the case of the unstoppable force vs the immovable object, the immovable object looks to be the winner.

I agree. This one was the most evenly matched and it's really a case of whether you think that insane O can score on that beastly D.

This was probably my favorite matchup and kinda wish that the coin I used to flip to determine first round matchups would have landed on a different side. It could have been AFC South vs. AFC West in the first round.

Mr. Stiller
05-15-2009, 01:14 AM
Yeah, Ike Taylor and Leon Hall are solid, but Manning with those WRs would rape those corners.

Just like he did in 2005 with Ike Taylor and DeShea Townsend....


Oh wait, he didn't...

tylerb929
05-15-2009, 10:23 AM
Just like he did in 2005 with Ike Taylor and DeShea Townsend....


Oh wait, he didn't...

He didn't play bad, a 90.9 (post season) and a 102.9 (regular season)QB rating, and that's without Andre Johnson.

aNYtitan
05-15-2009, 11:00 AM
I was going to see the matchup between the WR's and corners, and I saw Andre Johnson and Reggie Wayne on the same field, but then I saw that Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu was in the secondary. Just scary on both sides

Dam8610
05-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Just like he did in 2005 with Ike Taylor and DeShea Townsend....


Oh wait, he didn't...

Or this year when he threw 3 TDs on them and would've had 5 if Marvin Harrison could catch. Isn't it awesome how everything has two sides?

Mr. Stiller
05-15-2009, 11:43 AM
Or this year when he threw 3 TDs on them and would've had 5 if Marvin Harrison could catch. Isn't it awesome how everything has two sides?

so it doesn't matter that Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu are covering the field limiting Manning?

But because Manning has Wayne and Johnson it's physically impossible for AFCN to win?

It seems like everyone looks at WR's vs. the AFCN and completely forget how talented that defense is..

Ravens1991
05-15-2009, 11:54 AM
when is the voting over for this?

XxXdragonXxX
05-15-2009, 12:47 PM
I voted AFC South.

For an all star team, the South has an incredible offense and a very good defense. The North has an incredible defense, but the offense kinda sucks, again, for an all-star team.

CashmoneyDrew
05-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Just like he did in 2005 with Ike Taylor and DeShea Townsend....


Oh wait, he didn't...

Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot Peyton Manning was throwing to Andre Johnson then and Leon Hall = Deshea Townsend. :rolleyes:

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
05-15-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot Peyton Manning was throwing to Andre Johnson then and Leon Hall = Deshea Townsend. :rolleyes:

So you are saying that the argument that the Titans protected the QB when they played the Ravens and Steelers is irrelevant? I mean if Peyton wasn't throwing to Andre Johnson we can say the Titans weren't protecting against the AFCN front 7

terribletowel39
05-15-2009, 02:35 PM
This has already been decided. The AFCN has advanced already. Go vote for a squad in the next round. AFCN vs AFCE.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
05-15-2009, 02:41 PM
This has already been decided. The AFCN has advanced already. Go vote for a squad in the next round. AFCN vs AFCE.

We can still talk about it if we want. Just because the poll is over doesn't mean everyone has agreed

terribletowel39
05-15-2009, 02:53 PM
when is the voting over for this?

We can still talk about it if we want. Just because the poll is over doesn't mean everyone has agreed
He asked. :)

DeepThreat
05-15-2009, 04:23 PM
I'd like to make a suggestion here: Move Rogers to end and put Hampton at nose. Get rid of Aaron Smith.

TitanHope
05-15-2009, 04:35 PM
I'd like to make a suggestion here: Move Rogers to end and put Hampton at nose. Get rid of Aaron Smith.

My God...you've doomed us all...

LonghornsLegend
05-15-2009, 05:51 PM
I agree. This one was the most evenly matched and it's really a case of whether you think that insane O can score on that beastly D.

This was probably my favorite matchup and kinda wish that the coin I used to flip to determine first round matchups would have landed on a different side. It could have been AFC South vs. AFC West in the first round.

Had the voting stayed open longer it could of went any way, but it probably doesn't really matter what round because they would have had to face off eventually.

Dam8610
05-16-2009, 11:39 AM
so it doesn't matter that Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu are covering the field limiting Manning?

But because Manning has Wayne and Johnson it's physically impossible for AFCN to win?

It seems like everyone looks at WR's vs. the AFCN and completely forget how talented that defense is..

I was just giving the other side of the story since you were being very one-sided. For example, you keep bringing up the talent on D for the AFCN but completely ignore the fact that Manning did very well against both of the defense which that defense is mostly comprised of with much less of a supporting cast around him, especially on the OL. You make it sound the complete opposite, as if that offense has no chance of moving the ball. I'm sure if people were commenting on the AFCS defense shutting down the AFCN offense, you'd be the first to take up the cause for the AFCN offense. With how long Ben holds the ball, and the AFCS having all 3 Pro Bowl DEs, all of which are excellent pass rushers, I'd say there's a pretty decent chance of that happening.

Mr. Stiller
05-16-2009, 01:01 PM
I was just giving the other side of the story since you were being very one-sided. For example, you keep bringing up the talent on D for the AFCN but completely ignore the fact that Manning did very well against both of the defense which that defense is mostly comprised of with much less of a supporting cast around him, especially on the OL. You make it sound the complete opposite, as if that offense has no chance of moving the ball. I'm sure if people were commenting on the AFCS defense shutting down the AFCN offense, you'd be the first to take up the cause for the AFCN offense. With how long Ben holds the ball, and the AFCS having all 3 Pro Bowl DEs, all of which are excellent pass rushers, I'd say there's a pretty decent chance of that happening.

I just think it's ridiculous people were voting for the north based on 3 players alone.. Just like the AFC East.

Brady + Moss + TO is whats carrying him in the other poll.

Manning + Johnson + Wayne is whats carrying them.


I'm aware that Mannign did well against both defenses, he exploited their weaknesses. That AFCN defense looks to have no weaknesses.


As for Roethlisberger. Yeah he holds the ball too long and played behind a ****** offensive line. I don't see 1 Pittsburgh Player on that Oline in front of him.

falloutboy14
05-16-2009, 05:36 PM
I'm aware that Mannign did well against both defenses, he exploited their weaknesses. That AFCN defense looks to have no weaknesses.


Where's the AFCS offense weakness'? Each corner will need safety help, Clark & Daniels(I'd take a second TE over a FB) can beat just about any LB in the league. A top-tier RB, a great runner/receiver, who is stout enough to block the best LBs in the league. The best QB in the league, the best at reading defenses, moving within the pocket, getting the ball out fast. A strong O-line that can protect the QB/ make holes for the RB.

As good as this defense is, it can't take away all the weapons.

OzTitan
05-17-2009, 09:15 PM
I wonder if the presence of Haynesworth would have got AFCS the win here?

Also, surely I'm not the only one who finds it ironic the Titans and Colts dominant AFCS team goes 1 and done despite having the potential to go all the way and, Titans fans will love this, to a team featuring many Ravens no less.

Go away Baltimore, go play in some other playoff system. God, we can't even have the win in fantasy playoffs :P

LonghornsLegend
05-17-2009, 09:17 PM
This AFC South team was probably my favorite, adding Haynesworth though would be probably been the kicker, that's a huge difference on any team.

diabsoule
05-17-2009, 09:50 PM
This AFC South team was probably my favorite, adding Haynesworth though would be probably been the kicker, that's a huge difference on any team.

Not on the NFC East team.

TitanHope
05-18-2009, 12:05 AM
Not on the NFC East team.

I'm surprised the NFC East guys didn't offer up a 3-4 DEF, but that may just be me trying to be creative.

LE: Albert Haynesworth, Chris Canty
NT: Jay Ratliff, Brodrick Bunkley
RE: Justin Tuck, Igor Olshansky
OLB: Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, Andre Carter
ILB: London Fletcher-Baker
ILB: Michael Boley
OLB: DeMarcus Ware, Trent Cole

The 4-3 was probably better, but I think a lot of people prefer the 3-4 DEF, especially in fantasy. The only "Hrmmm" player is Osi playing OLB, but I don't think anyone would be quick to jump on him. Kiwi played 4-3 SLB for the Giants prior to last season, so he wouldn't be a reach to play 3-4 OLB, and neither would Carter.

Oh well. Just thinkin' out loud.