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DeathbyStat
06-23-2009, 09:40 AM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-9-293/Strahan--Taylor-lead-dominant-defense.html

A solid list, I think you could argue that another corner other than Troy Vincent could be on the list but other than that it is very solid

Michigan
06-23-2009, 09:42 AM
Replace Vincent with Charles Woodson and it's golden.

Addict
06-23-2009, 11:10 AM
here's the offense:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-2376/All-decade-offense--Brady-leads-packed-roster.html

Chief49er
06-23-2009, 11:45 AM
Problems or no problems...


Terrell Owens > Tory Holt.

CashmoneyDrew
06-23-2009, 12:33 PM
Why did they put two MLBs on that list for a 4-3 team? Just pick the better of the two and replace the other with Keith Bulluck. :)

yourfavestoner
06-23-2009, 01:33 PM
Replace Vincent with Charles Woodson and it's golden.

My argument would be for another Michigan alum - Ty Law.

Malaka
06-23-2009, 01:39 PM
My argument would be for another Michigan alum - Ty Law.

Yeah IMO, I think the two corners should be Champ and Ty.

MetSox17
06-23-2009, 02:04 PM
Really? Kris Jenkins? He burst on the scene during the Panthers hay-day, then fell off the face of the earth until he re-surfaced with the Jets. I'd much rather have Kevin Williams cause at the end of the decade he will have 7 straight years of dominance.

BeerBaron
06-23-2009, 02:42 PM
Why did they put two MLBs on that list for a 4-3 team? Just pick the better of the two and replace the other with Keith Bulluck. :)

You would be saying just the opposite if you were a Bears/Ravens fan and Urlacher/Lewis was left off for Bullock.

Plus I think Lewis would make a pretty deadly WLB in his prime....Urlacher a good SAM if need be.

AntoinCD
06-23-2009, 02:59 PM
I think a few questions could be; at WR do you go for consistency in Holt or periods of complete dominance in Moss and TO. It's hard to argue against either case so I can't complain. I would maybe also go Mawae instead of Kreutz. On defense I agree Jenkins shouldn't be there but if Sapp is your 3 tech then Kevin Williams doesn't fit. I would maybe go Casey Hampton to play nose. At LB it was a cop out to pick Urlacher in the same way they could have played Richard Seymour at DT. I would have gone with Keith Bullock or maybe Julian Peterson based on his play over the middle years. At corner I would also go Ty Law instead of Vincent

yourfavestoner
06-23-2009, 03:41 PM
Really? Kris Jenkins? He burst on the scene during the Panthers hay-day, then fell off the face of the earth until he re-surfaced with the Jets. I'd much rather have Kevin Williams cause at the end of the decade he will have 7 straight years of dominance.

Ya that's the dumbest selection there was. There's a number of guys who have had a larger impact this decade: Ted Williams, Jamal Williams, Casey Hampton, Lar'Roi Glover...there is a ton of guys more deserving than Jenkins.

aNYtitan
06-23-2009, 06:54 PM
I still argue for Peyton over Brady, I mean its a crapshoot, but I think Brady's multiple championships are the reason he gets the edge, but I feel like Peyton's skills are much better then Brady's skills

MetSox17
06-23-2009, 07:08 PM
I still argue for Peyton over Brady, I mean its a crapshoot, but I think Brady's multiple championships are the reason he gets the edge, but I feel like Peyton's skills are much better then Brady's skills

I agree. I think it should easily be Peyton Manning with the way he has performed. Too much praise is given to Superbowl rings, especially to the quarterback. Peyton Manning, for a very long time, was head and shoulders a better quarterback than Brady. Brady started performing like Manning only in 07, and was hurt last year.

ricowboy
06-23-2009, 07:22 PM
Peyton has better skills......Brady has the edge for intangibles. Brady is magic like Montana was! Elway had better skills than Montana ,but Montana was the guy you wanted the ball in his hands at the end of the game! Edge Brady! 3 rings can't argue that!

Bengalsrocket
06-23-2009, 07:38 PM
Peyton has better skills......Brady has the edge for intangibles. Brady is magic like Montana was! Elway had better skills than Montana ,but Montana was the guy you wanted the ball in his hands at the end of the game! Edge Brady! 3 rings can't argue that!

I think there are multiple people in this thread who are arguing against 3 rings, so I guess you can :P

It's apples and oranges to me, both are great and should go into the hall of fame as #1 and #2 goats, maybe #3 and #4 depending on how you feel about some other guys (Unitas / Montana).

GhostDeini
06-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Kris Jenkins on an all-decade team is a flat out joke. I would rather sneak Richard Seymour in there. Troy Vincent ? please. I would be fine with either Ty Law or Charles Woodson. On offense I would go with Peyton Manning and wouldnt even think twice about it. Patriots won 11 games with a scrub at QB (Chiefs will find out) enough said. On the oline, the tackles are fine. The guards are a joke. Will Shieds & Larry Allen were way better than Faneca & Hutch can ever dream of. I'm ok with Torry Holt on an all-decade team but Marvin Harrison ? Sure he got numbers but he is as soft a football player as they come.

Dam8610
06-23-2009, 10:26 PM
How is the decade leader in Passing Yardage, Passing TDs, Passer Rating, and Wins (all NFL records with a year remaining in the decade) NOT the QB of the all-decade team?

BeerBaron
06-23-2009, 10:34 PM
How is the decade leader in Passing Yardage, Passing TDs, Passer Rating, and Wins (all NFL records with a year remaining in the decade) NOT the QB of the all-decade team?

Theres another number......1 to 3. I won't tell you which side of that battle he's on.

Dam8610
06-23-2009, 10:38 PM
Theres another number......1 to 3. I won't tell you which side of that battle he's on.

So because Brady had awesome defenses, he should be the QB of the all-decade team? Thought processes like this are why Terry Bradshaw shames the halls of Canton.

BeerBaron
06-23-2009, 10:46 PM
So because Brady had awesome defenses, he should be the QB of the all-decade team? Thought processes like this are why Terry Bradshaw shames the halls of Canton.

I think this is a perfect storm of the anti-Pats (yet at the exact same second very, very pro-) world we live in and you being a Colts fan.

Honestly, that Elway/Montana comparison comes to mind. In everything you look for in a QB, Elway seemingly had the edge. Yet Montana did have that one "it"......so hard to define.

And love him or hate him or give all the credit to the team around him, Brady had (has?) that "it" while I'm not sure if Peyton does.....

Yes he did win once, but I remain convinced to this day that if Orton was the Bears QB, they would have held on and won. Grossman couldn't sustain a drive to to save his life, and the Bears defense which started out great got tired after only have a couple of plays off.....And also, the MVP shouldn't have been Peyton either. It was totally the running backs that carried them to that win.

Anyways, back to my main point, Brady also didn't have near the offensive weapons Peyton has always had. Everyone loves Troy Brown but he would have been the 4th receiver at best on most of the Colts teams of the past decade. Same goes for Deon Branch or the running backs they had through that time. The Patriots o-line was also frequently overrated....yeah they were decent, but they were made out to be great at times when I really don't think that was the case.

No one, anywhere, ever, would be unhappy if their team got Brady instead of Manning or visa-versa.......

cunit2k9
06-23-2009, 11:31 PM
troy polamalu... come on.. Brian Dawkins should be there. I love Randy Moss and think he should be there because out of the other two, Randy never had anyone nearly as good as their qb's throwing him the ball. I mean come on Culpepper and then what? Aaron Brooks? I do not think you could wrong though with who they picked for receiver though I just think Randy always gets a bad rap because of some of his antics.

Dam8610
06-24-2009, 12:10 AM
I think this is a perfect storm of the anti-Pats (yet at the exact same second very, very pro-) world we live in and you being a Colts fan.

Honestly, that Elway/Montana comparison comes to mind. In everything you look for in a QB, Elway seemingly had the edge. Yet Montana did have that one "it"......so hard to define.

And love him or hate him or give all the credit to the team around him, Brady had (has?) that "it" while I'm not sure if Peyton does.....

If Mike Vanderjagt and Adam Vinatieri switch teams from 2001-2004, you wouldn't think this.

Yes he did win once, but I remain convinced to this day that if Orton was the Bears QB, they would have held on and won. Grossman couldn't sustain a drive to to save his life, and the Bears defense which started out great got tired after only have a couple of plays off.....And also, the MVP shouldn't have been Peyton either. It was totally the running backs that carried them to that win.

I disagree with that sentiment completely, I think if Orton was the Bears QB, very little in the game changes. Manning completely changed the Bears defensive gameplan with one play, if he doesn't make that play, I doubt the Colts win the game. Manning backed the Bears defense off the blitz completely with that TD pass to Wayne, which left the underbelly of the Bears defense exposed for the rest of the game, which the Colts exploited heavily by running the ball and using the short passing game. I doubt Orton handles the ball any better than Grossman in the monsoon, and Grossman looking like an MVP candidate for half the season was part of the reason the Bears were even in that position, it'd be a really bizarre move to replace him for the biggest game of the year.

Anyways, back to my main point, Brady also didn't have near the offensive weapons Peyton has always had. Everyone loves Troy Brown but he would have been the 4th receiver at best on most of the Colts teams of the past decade. Same goes for Deon Branch or the running backs they had through that time. The Patriots o-line was also frequently overrated....yeah they were decent, but they were made out to be great at times when I really don't think that was the case.

And yet the Patriots have invested just as much, if not more, into their offense in terms of draft picks as the Colts have, what does that say about which QB improves the players around them? Isn't that one of the benchmarks of a great QB?

No one, anywhere, ever, would be unhappy if their team got Brady instead of Manning or visa-versa.......

I would certainly be unhappy if the Colts swapped QBs with the Patriots, because I doubt that Brady would be nearly as successful with the bad defenses Manning has had to tolerate over the years. The proof lies in the 2 seasons the Pats have had a mediocre defense in Brady's tenure: once the Patriots finished 9-7 in 2002, then they finished 10-6 in an INCREDIBLY weak AFC East in 2005 and got bounced in the divisional round, in large part due to Brady's INT that Champ Bailey nearly returned for a TD. Manning won his championship with the lowest ranked defense to ever win a championship.

Mr. Stiller
06-24-2009, 01:00 AM
DE: Michael Strahan, N.Y. Giants,
DT: Warren Sapp, Tampa Bay/Oakland
DT: Kris Jenkins, Carolina/N.Y. Jets
DE: Jason Taylor, Miami/Washington
LB: Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay
LB: Ray Lewis, Baltimore
LB: Brian Urlacher, Chicago
CB: Champ Bailey, Washington/Denver
CB: Troy Vincent: Phil./Mia./Buff./Wash.
S: Ed Reed, Baltimore
S: Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh

Troy Vincent -> Ty Law... When you impact the game enough to have a rule named after you... Yeah he deserves it. Charles Woodson a close 2nd.

Troy Polamalu -> Brian Dawkins... I love Troy P, But Dawkins has been on top of his game Since the beginning of this decade, Troy has been an impact player for 5 years. Dawkins gets the nod from me, but Troy is a close second, just because he did so many things that is rare from the Safety Spot.

Kris Jenkins? -> Casey Hampton... Jenkins hasn't been near the force over his career consistently as Hampton has.

Brian Urlacher -> I'm stuck between Keith Bulluck and London Fletcher. I like Fletcher better than Urlacher... but Bulluck is a OLB.

CC.SD
06-24-2009, 01:01 AM
So because Brady had awesome defenses, he should be the QB of the all-decade team? Thought processes like this are why Terry Bradshaw shames the halls of Canton.

Tom v. Peyton is a great debate, but whether or not Bradshaw belongs in the HoF is not.

Dam8610
06-24-2009, 01:04 AM
Tom v. Peyton is a great debate, but whether or not Bradshaw belongs in the HoF is not.

If you're averse to that (I stand by my statement though), replace "Terry Bradshaw" with "Troy Aikman", the argument is relatively the same.

EDIT: Wow, wrong "your" the first time.

CC.SD
06-24-2009, 01:06 AM
If your averse to that (I stand by my statement though), replace "Terry Bradshaw" with "Troy Aikman", the argument is relatively the same.

Hmm I don't really feel like bringing Cowboy nation down on my head at the moment but I get your point.

Also; yay Ladainian. Really no debate about it.

yourfavestoner
06-24-2009, 03:32 AM
How is the decade leader in Passing Yardage, Passing TDs, Passer Rating, and Wins (all NFL records with a year remaining in the decade) NOT the QB of the all-decade team?

For the same reason that Joe Montana is the 1st quarterback on the 1980s All Decade team ahead of Dan Fouts and Dan Marino.

Don't kid yourself. Brady is no Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman. Look at his numbers, they're consistently excellent throughout the decade AND are accompanied with postseason success. Greatness is not defined in September and October.

yourfavestoner
06-24-2009, 03:43 AM
I am also predicting that we will see the Patriots/Colts in the first round of the playoffs this season, further adding to this wonderful tale of two quarterbacks.

Gay Ork Wang
06-24-2009, 03:52 AM
DE: Michael Strahan, N.Y. Giants,
DT: Warren Sapp, Tampa Bay/Oakland
DT: Kris Jenkins, Carolina/N.Y. Jets
DE: Jason Taylor, Miami/Washington
LB: Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay
LB: Ray Lewis, Baltimore
LB: Brian Urlacher, Chicago
CB: Champ Bailey, Washington/Denver
CB: Troy Vincent: Phil./Mia./Buff./Wash.
S: Ed Reed, Baltimore
S: Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh

Troy Vincent -> Ty Law... When you impact the game enough to have a rule named after you... Yeah he deserves it. Charles Woodson a close 2nd.

Troy Polamalu -> Brian Dawkins... I love Troy P, But Dawkins has been on top of his game Since the beginning of this decade, Troy has been an impact player for 5 years. Dawkins gets the nod from me, but Troy is a close second, just because he did so many things that is rare from the Safety Spot.

Kris Jenkins? -> Casey Hampton... Jenkins hasn't been near the force over his career consistently as Hampton has.

Brian Urlacher -> I'm stuck between Keith Bulluck and London Fletcher. I like Fletcher better than Urlacher... but Bulluck is a OLB.
Bulluck over Urlacher, debatable but London Fletcher over Urlacher is silly

DeathbyStat
06-24-2009, 07:31 AM
Give me TO and MOSS at the Wide outs

jkpigskin
06-24-2009, 08:44 AM
give me Harrison and Moss as the wideout position. I would go as far as to say that Marvin Harrison may be the best wideout to ever play.

Gay Ork Wang
06-24-2009, 09:54 AM
give me Harrison and Moss as the wideout position. I would go as far as to say that Marvin Harrison may be the best wideout to ever play.
jerry rice is #1 and its not even close

Dam8610
06-24-2009, 10:38 AM
For the same reason that Joe Montana is the 1st quarterback on the 1980s All Decade team ahead of Dan Fouts and Dan Marino.

Don't kid yourself. Brady is no Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman. Look at his numbers, they're consistently excellent throughout the decade AND are accompanied with postseason success. Greatness is not defined in September and October.

Brady is more Aikman or Bradshaw than Montana. Also, most of Montana's memorable game winning moments come with Montana on the field (The Catch, his game winning TD drive against the Bengals), most of Brady's memorable game winning moments come with Adam Vinatieri on the field (2 Super Bowls, Tuck Rule game), and most of the memorable moments in the postseason where he's on the field at the end of the game involve him clinching the loss for his team or making a huge momentum shifting play for the other team (Champ Bailey's 100 yard INT return, Marlin Jackson's INT, Jay Alford's sack). Neither Marino nor Fouts won 3 MVP awards or led the 80s in Passing Yardage, Passing TDs, Passer Rating, and Wins, nor did either win a championship in the 80s. Manning is the first QB in NFL history to lead all 4 of those categories in a decade in NFL history, and every category except passer rating is an NFL decade record if the decade ended today, but there's still the 2009 left to play (no one will catch him in any of the 3 record categories, and he has an outside chance of getting the passer rating record for a decade from Steve Young if he has a 4th MVP season in the 00s). When a player dominates his position for a decade, he should be that decade's QB. No QB has ever dominated the QB position for a decade like Peyton Manning has in the 00s.

jkpigskin
06-24-2009, 10:43 AM
jerry rice is #1 and its not even close

my fault there... jerry rice is def clear cut #1, harrison is #2... had a brain slip

Shane P. Hallam
06-24-2009, 10:53 AM
my fault there... jerry rice is def clear cut #1, harrison is #2... had a brain slip

I think it is still a reach to call Harrison #2.

Dirk360
06-24-2009, 10:56 AM
lol, how did kris jenkins make the team over seymour and kevin williams? they finally got their lips off of moss i see.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
06-24-2009, 11:28 AM
I'm going to lead on the side of Peyton Manning. Moss over Holt wouldn't upset me either (if not for the Oakland stint it would be a no-brainer). Jenkins is certainly iffy.....

phlysac
06-24-2009, 11:39 AM
The list is purely opinion.

I'd like to take the time to give some love to Bryant Young as a name to be considered for DT.

AntoinCD
06-24-2009, 12:26 PM
I don't think any arguements about Brady having better defenses hold much ground. Now correct me if im wrong but did the Colts not break records for their passing defense last year. Now if a team can run on the Colts and take time off the clock it surely means they have to score quickly, which means there will be more passing. Now I am in no way taking any credit away from Manning but if you throw the ball more there is a better chance of having better stats, ie NE in '07.

And as for the arguement that the Patriots have added more to their offense than the Colts-3 1st round WRs, 3 1st round RBs, a 1st round TE and an offensive line that was extremely well coached and included a probable future HOFer. That is what the Colts have had at on offense throughout the decade(not necessarily drafted in the decade or played at the same). Compared with the Patriots- 2 1st round TEs, 1 1st roung OG and 1 1st round RB. While they did trade for Moss and Welker, Moss was apparently done and Welker was undrafted.

As I mentioned before I think it is much to close to call so therefore Superbowl rings were used to be the tiebreaker. Now if Manning wins another MVP and superbowl next year he would take it for the whole decade but if Brady does that then he wins it without question.

Dam8610
06-24-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't think any arguements about Brady having better defenses hold much ground.

The only time the Patriots missed the playoffs with Tom Brady as their QB was when the Patriots defense ranked 17th in points allowed. The only time the Colts won the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning as their QB, the Colts defense ranked 23rd in points allowed.

Now correct me if im wrong but did the Colts not break records for their passing defense last year.

They also were dead last in 3rd down conversion rate allowed. It doesn't matter how good you are at keeping teams out of the endzone through the air if you can't get them off the field.

The only other point I have to make here is adjust your barometer from "1st round" to "Top 50" and see how the investment in each offense compares.

scottyboy
06-24-2009, 01:43 PM
the funny thing on D, when they said about the "choice" between taylor and strahan, was easy took both bla blah blah.
the funny thing about that, Strahan is about 34309223872 million times better than Taylor

Dirk360
06-24-2009, 04:00 PM
The only time the Patriots missed the playoffs with Tom Brady as their QB was when the Patriots defense ranked 17th in points allowed. The only time the Colts won the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning as their QB, the Colts defense ranked 23rd in points allowed.



They also were dead last in 3rd down conversion rate allowed. It doesn't matter how good you are at keeping teams out of the endzone through the air if you can't get them off the field.

The only other point I have to make here is adjust your barometer from "1st round" to "Top 50" and see how the investment in each offense compares.

i'm confused, do you think brady sucks or something? why do we have to diminish one player to embellish another one? seems wrong.

themaninblack
06-24-2009, 05:14 PM
So there not going to put a RT on there? Willie Anderson deserves a spot on this team if they were actually going to do it correctly in regards to the offensive line.

Dirk360
06-24-2009, 05:17 PM
So there not going to put a RT on there? Willie Anderson deserves a spot on this team if they were actually going to do it correctly in regards to the offensive line.

he was always very good, but samuels, ogden and jones were better.

Shiver
06-24-2009, 07:34 PM
So because Brady had awesome defenses, he should be the QB of the all-decade team? Thought processes like this are why Terry Bradshaw shames the halls of Canton.

And its because of an awful defense, an all-star ensemble of weapons, and warm weather that led to Manning's statistical dominance. Just look at what Brady was able to do when the playing field was evened out: 50 TD.

GhostDeini
06-24-2009, 10:30 PM
Not so sure Strahan was "34309223872" times better than Jason Taylor. Taylor could play the run himself. It is the New York factor ? HMMM. Reminds me of how Lawrence Taylor got all the attention while Derrick Thomas was doing the same in K.C. And London Fletcher being brought up is a joke, Zach Thomas was always better. And finally, Peyton Manning is the best offensive player this game of football has ever seen so he gets the nod.

Dirk360
06-24-2009, 10:38 PM
Not so sure Strahan was "34309223872" times better than Jason Taylor. Taylor could play the run himself. It is the New York factor ? HMMM. Reminds me of how Lawrence Taylor got all the attention while Derrick Thomas was doing the same in K.C. And London Fletcher being brought up is a joke, Zach Thomas was always better. And finally, Peyton Manning is the best offensive player this game of football has ever seen so he gets the nod.

dan marino, walter payton, anthony munoz, and jerry rice would like a word with you.

GhostDeini
06-24-2009, 11:26 PM
Dan Marino and Jerry Rice are in the discussion you're right. But I'd say Barry Sanders was better offensive player than Payton. Sanders won 4 rushing titles and had a 5.0 career ypc. And Munoz ? I dont know about that. He was 6'4 275 in his prime.

scottyboy
06-24-2009, 11:33 PM
Not so sure Strahan was "34309223872" times better than Jason Taylor. Taylor could play the run himself. It is the New York factor ? HMMM. Reminds me of how Lawrence Taylor got all the attention while Derrick Thomas was doing the same in K.C. And London Fletcher being brought up is a joke, Zach Thomas was always better. And finally, Peyton Manning is the best offensive player this game of football has ever seen so he gets the nod.

it was the single season sack record, actually being able to stuff the run, and winning a super bowl. Strahan is one of the greatest DE's of all time and Taylor, albeit an obvious HOF'er, is over-rated.

and of course then you bring up Zach Thomas, which shows your bias. And nobody brought up LT, the greatest defensive player of all time who completely changed the game. Thomas was outstanding, love watching film of him, but he did not do the same LT did.

And Peyton the best player ever? football existed before the 90's, just so you know.

Dirk360
06-24-2009, 11:58 PM
Dan Marino and Jerry Rice are in the discussion you're right. But I'd say Barry Sanders was better offensive player than Payton. Sanders won 4 rushing titles and had a 5.0 career ypc. And Munoz ? I dont know about that. He was 6'4 275 in his prime.

hard for peyton to be the best offensive player ever though when he isnt even the best qb in the game today. if there is a big game to be played i know who my qb is going to be.

Sniper
06-25-2009, 12:01 AM
Peyton Manning is the best offensive player this game of football has ever seen

You're right. Tom Brady is so good that he gets his own league.

themaninblack
06-25-2009, 12:06 AM
he was always very good, but samuels, ogden and jones were better.

I'm talking about at RT. Can anyone even name a RT who has been consistently great like Willie has for much of this decade?

holt_bruce81
06-25-2009, 12:09 AM
Problems or no problems...


Terrell Owens > Tory Holt.

You are Insane my friend.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 12:28 AM
i'm confused, do you think brady sucks or something? why do we have to diminish one player to embellish another one? seems wrong.

I think Brady should not be the QB of an all-decade team in a decade when another QB dominated the record book. I'm not trying to diminish anything Brady has done, I simply don't see how 3 championships and 1 MVP trumps 3 MVPs, 1 championship, and countless records.

And its because of an awful defense, an all-star ensemble of weapons, and warm weather that led to Manning's statistical dominance. Just look at what Brady was able to do when the playing field was evened out: 50 TD.

That's not the playing field evened out, the playing field was even prior to Moss, Welker and Stallworth being added to the Patriots. Add 3 receivers of that caliber to the Colts in an offseason, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Manning throw for 60+ TDs, especially if Caldwell let Manning stat ***** as much as Belichick did with Brady in 2007.

Sniper
06-25-2009, 12:33 AM
Caldwell let Manning stat ***** as much as Belichick did with Brady in 2007.

Peyton's 2004 season called, just wanted to know what's up?

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 12:43 AM
Peyton's 2004 season called, just wanted to know what's up?

You mean the 2004 season where he sat out all but one drive of an entire game and quarters-halves of other games? Just checking.

Sniper
06-25-2009, 12:51 AM
You mean the 2004 season where he sat out all but one drive of an entire game and quarters-halves of other games? Just checking.

Yeah, the same one where he padded his stats against stalwarts like the Lions and Texans, they of the splendid pass defenses.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 12:55 AM
Yeah, the same one where he padded his stats against stalwarts like the Lions and Texans, they of the splendid pass defenses.

Did Manning ever re-enter a game he left in 2004, like Brady did in Miami in 2007? Having good games against bad teams isn't stat whoring, being in games long after a player should and coming back into games that have long been decided is stat whoring.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-25-2009, 02:28 AM
A few things I don't like.

I know the defensive tackle class isn't a strong one (honestly, Sapp's best year of the decade was 2000 and he had some really poor years (granted, some of them were at 5-tech defensive end), but I don't like Kris Jenkins there. Honestly, Kevin Williams has been around two less season and has a much more consistent and generally productive body of work. If it's between Jenkins and Glover though, I have to go Glover.

I would have to put Dawkins over Polamalu. He simply had more time to play at that top level in the decade and that should be recognized.

Tom Brady over Peyton Manning is a total tossup. I'm fine with Brady there.

Wide receiver is an interesting discussion, but while I'm fine with having Harrison there, Holt is a really iffy choice over Owens and Moss. He's a brilliant player, but he doesn't stack up well against their dominating play.

Everything else looks good.

ps: Charles Woodson shouldn't get the nod over Vincent.

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 04:08 AM
And Munoz ? I dont know about that. He was 6'4 275 in his prime.

worst argument ever

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 09:34 AM
worst argument ever

there is just no love for us linemen. totally forgetting the fact munoz had some of the best technique ever and his motor was relentless.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 09:39 AM
That's not the playing field evened out, the playing field was even prior to Moss, Welker and Stallworth being added to the Patriots. Add 3 receivers of that caliber to the Colts in an offseason, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Manning throw for 60+ TDs, especially if Caldwell let Manning stat ***** as much as Belichick did with Brady in 2007.

Let me get this straight in 06 brady's primary receivers were Caldwell, Gaffney, Gabriel, and Watson.

Manning's receivers in 06 were Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Ben Utecht and Dallas Clark. Are you saying that Brady's receivers were equal to peytons receivers? i'm not buying. I'm not even a pats fan but i can admit when a player has a great season. stop being so bitter my man.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 09:40 AM
Tom Brady over Peyton Manning is a total tossup. I'm fine with Brady there.

Here's the problem I have with it: Manning has dominated this decade, plain and simple. No QB has ever put up the kind of numbers in a decade that Manning has in the 00s, and the 00s aren't even finished yet. Manning's 37,754 passing yards this decade are the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd is Favre in 00s with 34,243 followed by Marino in 90s with 33,508), his 281 TD passes are also the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd and 3rd are Favre with 235 (90s, led decade) and 229 (00s)), and his 101 Wins are the most by any QB in a decade (2nd is Aikman (90s) with 90, 3rd is a tie between Brady (00s) and Favre (00s) with 87), and his 98.0 passer rating for the 00s is second only to Steve Young's 101.2 passer rating for the 90s. If Manning throws for 2,246 yards and 19 TDs this season (which would be an extremely subpar season for him), he will become the first QB in NFL history to throw for 40,000 yards and 300 TDs (long held career HOF benchmarks) in a decade. 9 wins this season would give the Manning-led Colts 110 for the 00s, or an average of 11 wins per season. The Colts also became the first team in NFL history to win 12+ games for 6 consecutive seasons. As for individual accolades, in the 00s, Manning is an 8 time Pro Bowler (T-1st Norm Van Brocklin), 4 time 1st Team All-Pro (T-1st Otto Graham), 3 time MVP (T-1st Brett Favre), set the record for Passer Rating in a season (121.1), and became the only player in NFL history to win the Regular Season, Super Bowl, and Pro Bowl MVP. I could understand not picking Manning if Manning didn't hold all these records with a year left to play, but he does, which is why it makes no sense. Simply put, no QB has ever put together a decade like Manning has in 9 seasons.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 09:46 AM
Here's the problem I have with it: Manning has dominated this decade, plain and simple. No QB has ever put up the kind of numbers in a decade that Manning has in the 00s, and the 00s aren't even finished yet. Manning's 37,754 passing yards this decade are the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd is Favre in 00s with 34,243 followed by Marino in 90s with 33,508), his 281 TD passes are also the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd and 3rd are Favre with 235 (90s, led decade) and 229 (00s)), and his 101 Wins are the most by any QB in a decade (2nd is Aikman (90s) with 90, 3rd is a tie between Brady (00s) and Favre (00s) with 87), and his 98.0 passer rating for the 00s is second only to Steve Young's 101.2 passer rating for the 90s. If Manning throws for 2,246 yards and 19 TDs this season (which would be an extremely subpar season for him), he will become the first QB in NFL history to throw for 40,000 yards and 300 TDs (long held career HOF benchmarks) in a decade. 9 wins this season would give the Manning-led Colts 110 for the 00s, or an average of 11 wins per season. The Colts also became the first team in NFL history to win 12+ games for 6 consecutive seasons. As for individual accolades, in the 00s, Manning is an 8 time Pro Bowler (T-1st Norm Van Brocklin), 4 time 1st Team All-Pro (T-1st Otto Graham), 3 time MVP (T-1st Brett Favre), set the record for Passer Rating in a season (121.1), and became the only player in NFL history to win the Regular Season, Super Bowl, and Pro Bowl MVP. I could understand not picking Manning if Manning didn't hold all these records with a year left to play, but he does, which is why it makes no sense. Simply put, no QB has ever put together a decade like Manning has in 9 seasons.

manning is a great qb no doubt but when the pressure is at its highest (i'm talking about the playoffs) he fails more than he delivers. last year against the chargers he just needs a first down to ice the game but he fails to get it and the colts go on to lose in OT.

YEAR before that he was playing very well against the chargers in the playoffs and has first and goal at about the 8 yard line, he had 4 downs to deliver and he still couldn't do it.

in the 06 playoff run the terrible defense that the colts had allowed only 58 points combined throughout 4 games. that is unbelievable! peyton was generally throwing completions to the wrong team throughout most of those playoffs games (cheifs game and ravens game). although his performance against new england was legendary.

GhostDeini
06-25-2009, 09:48 AM
I totally agree with Dam, Peyton has completly dominated his position like nobody has ever done with theirs. This guy is a machine. You know exactly what youre getting EVERY game/season. Brady's legacy took a hit when Patriots won 11 games with a scrub that hadnt played since senior year in highschool.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 09:51 AM
I totally agree with Dam, Peyton has completly dominated his position like nobody has ever done with theirs. This guy is a machine. You know exactly what youre getting EVERY game/season. Brady's legacy took a hit when Patriots won 11 games with a scrub that hadnt played since senior year in highschool.

and missed the playoffs being embarrisingly crushed agianst the real contenders like the chargers, steelers, and dolphins. that team was really 9-7 team that benifitted greatly from a cupcake schedule. they beat up on pathetic teams like the raiders, cheifs, and seahawks.

bigbluedefense
06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
No WR ive ever seen has impacted the game and how defense is played and how a team changes their gameplan like Randy Moss.

Randy Moss not being a WR on this team is instant fail.


I didn't agree with Chris Jenkins on defense either. Come on, we had better candidates than Chris.

Brian Dawkins absolutely should have been on this defense.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 09:55 AM
No WR ive ever seen has impacted the game and how defense is played and how a team changes their gameplan like Randy Moss.

Randy Moss not being a WR on this team is instant fail.


I didn't agree with Chris Jenkins on defense either. Come on, we had better candidates than Chris.

Brian Dawkins absolutely should have been on this defense.

moss is so tough because he almost constantly commands a two time aka double team. jenkins shouldnt have made it over haynesworth or kevin williams.

terribletowel39
06-25-2009, 10:00 AM
All-Decade Moments.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-11-100/All-decade-moments--Manning-to-Tyree-tops-list.html

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:04 AM
interesting. i wonder how many things would be different if it was ruled that brady fumbled? would gruden still be in oakland? would dungy have ever come to indy? would brady still be playing? would the raiders or rams have started a championship run?

2 Live Crew
06-25-2009, 10:11 AM
You can see the Peyton vs. Tom debate is always going to be a one that people argue over for years to come. It can be argued either way.

I just don't get people that say it should be a "no brainer" either way. If someone else prefers one over the other, you just nod your head and say "yes I understand why you would pick him".

It really comes down to a matter of preference. Do you take the guy with better numbers and stats (Brady's no slouch in this dept either). Or take the guy with more super bowl rings (Manning at least has 1).

Both guys are amazing and will go down with the top QBs to ever play this game.

Personally, if I need one for the game of my life I'd lean towards Brady. He has 3 rings and lost another super bowl (probably the best Patriot team and probably would've won if not for the crazy helmet catch).

He's just come up big in the clutch more times than Manning, thats my tiebreaker. Manning's 1 super bowl win was against a Rex Grossman led team. Also, Peyton did not deserve the SB MVP in that game...Rhodes did.

Also, Brady was on (arguably of course) the best offense of all time with 07-08 Patriots (yes, there was stat padding but still they were amazing).

I can see if someone prefers Manning though. The Colts' defenses have not been as good as NE no doubt (Although in the SB year they played amazing in the playoffs). His stats are off the charts, amazing consistency every year, extremely durable. He just has not got it done in the playoffs enough for me.

I'm not a Patriots fan or a Colts fan, so no bias here. Actually I root for the Colts when they play each other.

BUT...there is one huge disclaimer....

(SPYGATE lol)

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:19 AM
its isnt a hands down conversation by any means like how dam is trying to portray it. how do we know cassell isnt good himself? at least give the poor kid a chance.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 10:19 AM
Let me get this straight in 06 brady's primary receivers were Caldwell, Gaffney, Gabriel, and Watson.

Manning's receivers in 06 were Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Ben Utecht and Dallas Clark. Are you saying that Brady's receivers were equal to peytons receivers? i'm not buying. I'm not even a pats fan but i can admit when a player has a great season. stop being so bitter my man.

In terms of investment level, yes. For Marvin Harrison, the Pats had Terry Glenn (Glenn was picked 7th in the same draft Harrison was picked 19th), for Reggie Wayne, the Pats had Chad Jackson (Wayne was picked 30th overall, Jackson 36th), for Dallas Clark, the Pats had Daniel Graham (Clark was picked 24th overall, Graham 21st), for Ben Utecht, the Pats had Ben Watson (Utecht was a UDFA, Watson was picked 32nd overall). I don't penalize a QB for making the players around him better, as Manning obviously has, and as is one of the benchmarks of a great QB. I don't deny Brady had a great season in 2007 (probably the 2nd best ever by a QB), but don't pretend that was "the playing field evened out", the Pats had invested just as much if not more in their offense at that point as the Colts had, their investments just didn't pay off. Again, add 3 receivers of that caliber to the Colts in any given offseason and watch Manning throw for 60+ TDs the following season.

manning is a great qb no doubt but when the pressure is at its highest (i'm talking about the playoffs) he fails more than he delivers. last year against the chargers he just needs a first down to ice the game but he fails to get it and the colts go on to lose in OT.

You mean fails like when he put the Colts in position to beat the Dolphins in 2000, or tie the Steelers in 2005, only to have Mike Vanderjagt miss a field goal, leading to a loss? How about 2007, where he put up 400 yards and 3 TDs in a losing effort, I'm sure that was his fault, right? You bring up a great example as well, all the Colts needed was a first down, but if you watch that play, you can clearly see that someone ran the wrong route. The bottom line is Manning gets far too much blame for the Colts postseason shortcomings. I mean, it's not like he's ever thrown an INT to clinch the loss for his team after the biggest comeback by the other team in AFC Championship Game history or taken a sack to all but end an undefeated run and clinch the loss in the Super Bowl.

YEAR before that he was playing very well against the chargers in the playoffs and has first and goal at about the 8 yard line, he had 4 downs to deliver and he still couldn't do it.

That shouldn't have been an issue if Kenton Keith could catch and/or the defense could collapse a pocket in less than 10 seconds in that game. I'm sure the lack of pass rush and the terrible stone hands of Keith are Manning's fault though. :rolleyes:

in the 06 playoff run the terrible defense that the colts had allowed only 58 points combined throughout 4 games. that is unbelievable! peyton was generally throwing completions to the wrong team throughout most of those playoffs games (cheifs game and ravens game). although his performance against new england was legendary.

In the Chiefs game, the 3 picks are the only thing Manning did wrong, and anyone who watched the game knows it, he only let 5 balls hit the ground that day, and against the Ravens, no QB would have had a good statline that day, if you go back and read the game thread here, several people even said no other QB would have won that game.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:24 AM
i was under the impression we were talking about 06. watson was the only player that the pats invested highly in and he (like kenton keith) has stone hands and a propensity for *****ing up at crucial moments. in truth, watson isnt very good. manning has come through before in the money season like i said. he just fails slightly more than he succeeds.

definitely, brady has failed miserably the last couple of years in the playoffs. never said he didnt.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 10:28 AM
I just don't get people that say it should be a "no brainer" either way. If someone else prefers one over the other, you just nod your head and say "yes I understand why you would pick him".

Name one thing Tom Brady has done in the course of this decade that takes longer than a season to do and no other QB has ever done and I will acknowledge your point. I could name at least 5 of those things for Peyton Manning off the top of my head, which is why for best QB of the decade (all I'm arguing here), it makes no sense to pick anyone else.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:33 AM
Name one thing Tom Brady has done in the course of this decade that takes longer than a season to do and no other QB has ever done and I will acknowledge your point. I could name at least 5 of those things for Peyton Manning off the top of my head, which is why for best QB of the decade (all I'm arguing here), it makes no sense to pick anyone else.

for peyton:
tds in a season
yds in a season
ypa
completon percentage
and qb rating

im not a big stat guy but manning dominates the stats dept.

brady went 26/28 in a playoff game in 07 which was pretty impressive. we can agree both qbs are hall of famers right? trying to find some common ground here lol.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 10:36 AM
i was under the impression we were talking about 06. watson was the only player that the pats invested highly in and he (like kenton keith) has stone hands and a propensity for *****ing up at crucial moments. in truth, watson isnt very good. manning has come through before in the money season like i said. he just fails slightly more than he succeeds.

definitely, brady has failed miserably the last couple of years in the playoffs. never said he didnt.

I've been talking about the entire decade the entire time, but yes, in 06 the Pats had invested just as much if not more into their offense as the Colts had, and they continued in that trend beyond that point. As for the postseason conversation, the argument could easily be made that if the two teams switch kickers from 2001-2005, we're not having this conversation.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
for peyton:
tds in a season
yds in a season
ypa
completon percentage
and qb rating

im not a big stat guy but manning dominates the stats dept.

brady went 26/28 in a playoff game in 07 which was pretty impressive. we can agree both qbs are hall of famers right? trying to find some common ground here lol.

I'm not denying that Brady is a very good QB, but the thing Manning has done over the 00s decade are historical. No QB has ever done them, and it will probably be a long time before another QB does. That's why I don't see this as a debate.

By the way, Peyton holds none of those records save QB rating in a season, the 5 things I was thinking of were:

- Most Passing Yards in a decade
- Most Passing TDs in a decade
- Most Wins in a decade
- First QB in NFL history to lead a decade in Passing Yards, Passing TDs, QB Rating, and Wins (no QB has ever led 3 of those categories in NFL history)
- First QB in NFL history to lead a decade in MVPs, 1st team All-Pros, and Pro Bowls (no QB has led a decade in 2 of those categories)

wogitalia
06-25-2009, 11:05 AM
I think the Brady and Manning battle comes down to one thing and one thing only.

Do you want the regular season star or the playoff star? Basically do you place more value on the regular season or the playoffs?

For all his regular season wins, Brady has the playoff wins and the better playoff stats on Manning. So whilst Manning has done it in the regular season, Brady has been the equivalent once the playoffs start.

Personally, I want the guy who gets it done when it matters most, Manning has been a phenomenal regular season QB, no one is arguing that, Brady has been an all time great regular season QB and a far better playoff QB.

I can totally understand those that value the regular season more, it is a "larger" body of work and I don't think anyone can argue against Manning in that area.

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 11:07 AM
i dont see how people say he sucked in the playoffs.

Sniper
06-25-2009, 11:15 AM
i dont see how people say he sucked in the playoffs.

He had some sub-par games, and in my opinion, his Super Bowl MVP was more of a "lifetime achievement award" instead of an actual MVP.

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 11:27 AM
He had some sub-par games, and in my opinion, his Super Bowl MVP was more of a "lifetime achievement award" instead of an actual MVP.
his actual MVP certainly was, but there was no game that you can point to and say: He lost the game for them.

He certainly wasnt as prolific in some of the games, but just looking at the AFC Championship game shows that he can and did play great in the playoffs

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 12:19 PM
his actual MVP certainly was, but there was no game that you can point to and say: He lost the game for them.

He certainly wasnt as prolific in some of the games, but just looking at the AFC Championship game shows that he can and did play great in the playoffs

no doubt he has played well in playoff games. just other players have played better. (ed reed, tom brady, ray lewis, wes welker, roethlisberger, hines ward,)

2 Live Crew
06-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Dam presents some great points and I can totally respect him for picking Peyton as the QB of the decade.

If I was a Colts fan, I would probably be favoring Manning and defending him too so I'm not gonna hate. Manning is a great player.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...Don't you think Manning would trade his career for Brady's career to get the extra rings (He'd still be going to the HoF)? He absolutely would.

Also, there's still 1 more season left in this decade. Brady could really pull ahead with another ring or Peyton could almost even the SB score.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 12:52 PM
his actual MVP certainly was, but there was no game that you can point to and say: He lost the game for them.

He certainly wasnt as prolific in some of the games, but just looking at the AFC Championship game shows that he can and did play great in the playoffs

Didn't he throw like 5 picks against the chargers in the playoffs? Cromartie had 2 I think

senormysterioso
06-25-2009, 01:19 PM
Brady vs Manning is going to be a coke vs pepsi argument. I think the two years that Manning started and dominated that Brady didn't in the decade give it to him though.

CC.SD
06-25-2009, 01:23 PM
Didn't he throw like 5 picks against the chargers in the playoffs? Cromartie had 2 I think

Don't talk about that game. It is a beehive.

You're thinking of a regular season game though.

Shane P. Hallam
06-25-2009, 01:34 PM
Brady has won 3 Super Bowls and 2 Super Bowl MVPs? Peyton Manning has won 1? He has the longest consecutive win streak in NFL history with 21 wins.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 01:43 PM
Yea I am taking Brady all the way because IMO Peyton couldn't win a Superbowls with the receivers Manning had.

Shane P. Hallam
06-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Yea I am taking Brady all the way because IMO Peyton couldn't win a Superbowls with the receivers Manning had.

Dam says Peyton would have turned Chad Jackson and Jabar Gaffney into Hall of Famers.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 01:50 PM
Peyton got the record for most td's in a season and as soon as Brady got Moss and Welker he broke that record. Honestly screw stats Brady has the rings.

superman8456
06-25-2009, 01:58 PM
Peyton got the record for most td's in a season and as soon as Brady got Moss and Welker he broke that record. Honestly screw stats Brady has the rings.

Do people remember Dan Marino's statistics or about him never winning a SB?

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:00 PM
Dam says Peyton would have turned Chad Jackson and Jabar Gaffney into Hall of Famers.

yeah, not quite. the colts have invested heavily in offense during the peyton era drafting reggie wayne, clark, addai, brown, gonzalez. new england has drafted watson, graham, mankins, branch, maroney, and chad jackson. in other words, the colts have the better scouting department.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 02:01 PM
Do people remember Dan Marino's statistics or about him never winning a SB?

Yea and there are plenty of QB's I would take over him because of there rings. I know people like Trent Dilfer has rings but what I am saying is that Peyton went to like 12 consecutive playoffs and has 1 ring. He chokes and Brady has been to like 5 and has 3 rings. I will take that any day

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 02:02 PM
Yea and there are plenty of QB's I would take over him because of there rings. I know people like Trent Dilfer has rings but what I am saying is that Peyton went to like 12 consecutive playoffs and has 1 ring. He chokes and Brady has been to like 5 and has 3 rings. I will take that any day
Peyton doesnt choke. His team does

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:02 PM
Yea and there are plenty of QB's I would take over him because of there rings. I know people like Trent Dilfer has rings but what I am saying is that Peyton went to like 12 consecutive playoffs and has 1 ring. He chokes and Brady has been to like 5 and has 3 rings. I will take that any day

i dunno is peyton chokes but he hasnt come through as often as brady has. and both have had their share of failures as well.

superman8456
06-25-2009, 02:04 PM
Yea and there are plenty of QB's I would take over him because of there rings. I know people like Trent Dilfer has rings but what I am saying is that Peyton went to like 12 consecutive playoffs and has 1 ring. He chokes and Brady has been to like 5 and has 3 rings. I will take that any day

You cant put the blame solely on one person for not getting all the way to the SB/winning the SB. Look at the defense Peyton has had for his tenure. Some years good, other years horrendous.

Was Peyton ever involved in a thing like spygate? Nope
Does Peyton make Tom Brady's stats look like chump change? Yes
Has Peyton won a SB? Yes
Has he dominated this decade? Hell yes

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:06 PM
You cant put the blame solely on one person for not getting all the way to the SB/winning the SB. Look at the defense Peyton has had for his tenure. Some years good, other years horrendous.

Was Peyton ever involved in a thing like spygate? Nope
Does Peyton make Tom Brady's stats look like chump change? Yes
Has Peyton won a SB? Yes
Has he dominated this decade? Hell yes

why do we have to tear a guy down to build up another one? what kind of society do we live in? christ. just give both props.

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 02:08 PM
why do we have to tear a guy down to build up another one? what kind of society do we live in? christ. just give both props.
because building up another includes tearing down another if u think he is the same level

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 02:10 PM
You cant put the blame solely on one person for not getting all the way to the SB/winning the SB. Look at the defense Peyton has had for his tenure. Some years good, other years horrendous.

Was Peyton ever involved in a thing like spygate? Nope
Does Peyton make Tom Brady's stats look like chump change? Yes
Has Peyton won a SB? Yes
Has he dominated this decade? Hell yes

Was Tom Brady ever involved in a thing like spygate? Nope
Peyton has started 4 seasons more than Brady
Tom Brady has 3 and have been to 4. Oh yea his team went undefeated during the regular season
Has Tom Brady dominated since 2001? yes

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:11 PM
because building up another includes tearing down another if u think he is the same level

stay classy.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
06-25-2009, 02:14 PM
Pro bowl- Peyton 9 Tom 4
All Pro- Peyton 4 Tom 1
2nd team all pro- Peyton 3 Tom 1
MVP- Peyton 3 Tom 1

Manning has been the better performer this decade making nearly every pro bowl and being the All pro half of the decade. Tom has had one remarkable statistical season and because of his injury has yet to back it up. Looking at the statistics Marvin didn't take off till Peyton got their.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Pro bowl- Peyton 9 Tom 4
All Pro- Peyton 4 Tom 1
2nd team all pro- Peyton 3 Tom 1
MVP- Peyton 3 Tom 1

Manning has been the better performer this decade making nearly every pro bowl and being the All pro half of the decade. Tom has had one remarkable statistical season and because of his injury has yet to back it up. Looking at the statistics Marvin didn't take off till Peyton got their.

cause if it all revolves around the pro bowl right?:rolleyes: cmon, peyton is great but pro bowls are a byproduct of his greatness and the fact he has had 3 more years to make the pro bowl.

superman8456
06-25-2009, 02:18 PM
Was Tom Brady ever involved in a thing like spygate? Nope
Peyton has started 4 seasons more than Brady
Tom Brady has 3 and have been to 4. Oh yea his team went undefeated during the regular season
Has Tom Brady dominated since 2001? yes

Tom Brady was the QB of the team involved in spygate.

Are 4 season gonna make up for the 20,000 more yards and 100 more TD's Peyton has thrown?

Went undefeated in the regular season, when the opposing team said he was only gonna score 17 points he laughed, got his ass handed to him in the SB. Thats a QB who chokes...

Has Tom Brady been dominant? Yes
Is he the most dominant? haha absolutely not
Is Tom Brady's division a cakewalk? I would say yes.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:25 PM
does tom brady like cake? yes
does peyton manning have a pink forhead? yes
is tom brady a walking sperm bank? yes

Sniper
06-25-2009, 02:27 PM
Is Tom Brady slamming Gisele Bundchen? He is?

/thread.

Poor Peyton. He's had to be second-best to a player from Michigan since college! :D

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 02:31 PM
seriously, the yes or no questions can be twisted around until you get the desired result.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
06-25-2009, 02:36 PM
cause if it all revolves around the pro bowl right?:rolleyes: cmon, peyton is great but pro bowls are a byproduct of his greatness and the fact he has had 3 more years to make the pro bowl.

Take away 3 he still beats him 6 to 4. Hey, they are just super bowls right, a quarterback whens one every year :p some when 2 like the great charlie batch.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 02:38 PM
This argument never goes anywhere so I am just going to say I like Brady better you like Peyton. If you want 9 probowls and 20,000 more yards and 100 more tds than take that but if you want 3 rings in 4 years hey go with Brady.

I like how the Patriots got there ass handed to them in the Superbowl when the score was 17-14. Came down to the last drive.

2 Live Crew
06-25-2009, 02:54 PM
seriously, the yes or no questions can be twisted around until you get the desired result.

Exactly, people take this stuff way to seriously. Just give props to both and move on. Manning has the reg season dominance, Brady has the postseason. Pick one. I'll take the playoffs (I mean that is the whole point of playing the game isn't it). You can make the statistics say anything you want til you get your desired result.

Playoff stats:

Brady is 14-3 this decade, Manning is 7-7. Brady has thrown 26 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions. Manning has thrown 22 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. Brady is 3-1 in SB's and Manning is 1-0.

Gay Ork Wang
06-25-2009, 03:04 PM
stay classy.
that doesnt even make sense

eaglesalltheway
06-25-2009, 03:04 PM
Exactly, people take this stuff way to seriously. Just give props to both and move on. Manning has the reg season dominance, Brady has the postseason. Pick one. I'll take the playoffs (I mean that is the whole point of playing the game isn't it). You can make the statistics say anything you want til you get your desired result.

Playoff stats:

Brady is 14-3 this decade, Manning is 7-7. Brady has thrown 26 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions. Manning has thrown 22 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. Brady is 3-1 in SB's and Manning is 1-0.

ZOMGZ Manning has the better Superbowl winning percentage!!!


For the record, I'd pick Manning... I know its trivial and impossible to prove. But I think if you put Peyton on the Pats and Brady on the Colts, the Pats would be even better off throughout Peyton's career, and the Colts would be slightly worse off, though still a very successful team.

I like them both, and you really can't go wrong with either, but if I had to pick the better QB, I'd go with Manning. Just my opinion...

iowatreat54
06-25-2009, 03:09 PM
Take away 3 he still beats him 6 to 4. Hey, they are just super bowls right, a quarterback whens one every year :p some when 2 like the great charlie batch.

How do you 'when' something?

That's not even a typo, you did it twice.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
06-25-2009, 03:26 PM
How do you 'when' something?

That's not even a typo, you did it twice.

You obviously understood what he was saying so why even say anything about it?

Sniper
06-25-2009, 03:27 PM
You obviously understood what he was saying so why even say anything about it?

To illustrate the stupidity?

ironman4579
06-25-2009, 03:32 PM
In the Chiefs game, the 3 picks are the only thing Manning did wrong, and anyone who watched the game knows it, he only let 5 balls hit the ground that day....

Wait, did you really say that like throwing 3 picks is no big thing?

iowatreat54
06-25-2009, 03:36 PM
You obviously understood what he was saying so why even say anything about it?

There is no reason anyone should ever confuse the words 'when' and 'win'.

Also, that post could barely be considered a logical thought the way it was constructed. I just hate dumb people.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 03:38 PM
that doesnt even make sense

your right but i couldnt think of a witty response so that is the best i could do. your probably a real classy fella.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 03:40 PM
ZOMGZ Manning has the better Superbowl winning percentage!!!


For the record, I'd pick Manning... I know its trivial and impossible to prove. But I think if you put Peyton on the Pats and Brady on the Colts, the Pats would be even better off throughout Peyton's career, and the Colts would be slightly worse off, though still a very successful team.

I like them both, and you really can't go wrong with either, but if I had to pick the better QB, I'd go with Manning. Just my opinion...

awesome, and you didnt have to totally disparage brady and his sexual orientation to prove a point for manning. 2 POINTS!!

eaglesalltheway
06-25-2009, 03:42 PM
awesome, and you didnt have to totally disparage brady and his sexual orientation to prove a point for manning. 2 POINTS!!

I should come clean. I liek them both as players, but I hate Tom Brady as a person. (From what I've seen of him, and this is going to come off as strong but w/e) He just comes off as smug to me, and I don't like that.

To be honest, I'd been wishing he'd get injured for the last few years, so I am no angel... But as a player, there isn't much to disparage...

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 04:47 PM
I should come clean. I liek them both as players, but I hate Tom Brady as a person. (From what I've seen of him, and this is going to come off as strong but w/e) He just comes off as smug to me, and I don't like that.

To be honest, I'd been wishing he'd get injured for the last few years, so I am no angel... But as a player, there isn't much to disparage...

STAY CLASSY BRO.

ironman4579
06-25-2009, 04:50 PM
STAY CLASSY BRO.

You really need to work on that catch phrase. Try something like "Spicy Chicken!!"

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 04:57 PM
You really need to work on that catch phrase. Try something like "Spicy Chicken!!"

i'm good bro. just trying to make everyone here a better person.

eaglesalltheway
06-25-2009, 05:00 PM
STAY CLASSY BRO.

Will do good sir, will do.

Dam8610
06-25-2009, 06:27 PM
Personally, I want the guy who gets it done when it matters most, Manning has been a phenomenal regular season QB, no one is arguing that, Brady has been an all time great regular season QB and a far better playoff QB.

Quarterback A in postseason play:
61.7% completion rate 7.5 YPA 280.5 YPG 1.5 TD/G 1.1 INT/G
4 3+ TD games
2 4+ TD games
2 3+ INT games

Quarterback B in postseason play:
62.5% completion rate 6.6 YPA 232.6 YPG 1.5 TD/G 0.7 INT/G
3 3+ TD games
0 4+ TD games
2 3+ INT games

I'll leave it up to you to determine who those Quarterbacks are, but they're fairly close in terms of postseason performance, aren't they?

I guess what I'm trying to say is...Don't you think Manning would trade his career for Brady's career to get the extra rings (He'd still be going to the HoF)? He absolutely would.

I highly doubt that. Obviously players want to win as many championships as they can, but Manning has a championship, and 3 MVPs, and countless other awards and accolades. I doubt he'd trade everything he's done in his career for 2 championships, especially when he's already won one and he has excellent opportunities to win more.

Wait, did you really say that like throwing 3 picks is no big thing?

The Chiefs had 0 points off turnovers, so it wasn't that big of a deal, especially since the Colts pretty much dominated that game.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:00 PM
Will do good sir, will do.

coolness bro.

Dirk360
06-25-2009, 10:01 PM
dam, at least give major props to your defense for compensating for peytons mistakes.

wogitalia
06-26-2009, 01:04 AM
I'll leave it up to you to determine who those Quarterbacks are, but they're fairly close in terms of postseason performance, aren't they?

I'm guessing they are Manning/Brady in that order(would be pointless to post others). The stats are close but there are two that stand out. One is the missing stat of wins/losses. The other is that one guy throws nearly twice as many INTs as the other guy. Those are the two glaring things in that comparison.

Also worth noting is that one guys stats are on a par with his regular season stats while the other guy has taken a big step back. I'll leave it to you to work out which is which on that little element.

Stand by my original statement, one guy is a fantastic regular season QB and a very good playoff QB, the other guy is a very good regular season and fantastic playoff QB.

yourfavestoner
06-26-2009, 02:23 AM
I'm guessing they are Manning/Brady in that order(would be pointless to post others). The stats are close but there are two that stand out. One is the missing stat of wins/losses. The other is that one guy throws nearly twice as many INTs as the other guy. Those are the two glaring things in that comparison.

Also worth noting is that one guys stats are on a par with his regular season stats while the other guy has taken a big step back. I'll leave it to you to work out which is which on that little element.

Stand by my original statement, one guy is a fantastic regular season QB and a very good playoff QB, the other guy is a very good regular season and fantastic playoff QB.

Wait, Peyton Manning plays worse when the games actually matter? Preposterous!

Oh wait, I've been trying to make this argument since I've been on this site. ;)

Gay Ork Wang
06-26-2009, 05:20 AM
I'm guessing they are Manning/Brady in that order(would be pointless to post others). The stats are close but there are two that stand out. One is the missing stat of wins/losses. The other is that one guy throws nearly twice as many INTs as the other guy. Those are the two glaring things in that comparison.

Also worth noting is that one guys stats are on a par with his regular season stats while the other guy has taken a big step back. I'll leave it to you to work out which is which on that little element.

Stand by my original statement, one guy is a fantastic regular season QB and a very good playoff QB, the other guy is a very good regular season and fantastic playoff QB.
cause wins and losses are a QBs effort. and 1.1 to 0.7 is not that bad considering the other guy has 3 more 4+ TD games

Dam8610
06-26-2009, 09:44 AM
Stand by my original statement, one guy is a fantastic regular season QB and a very good playoff QB, the other guy is a very good regular season and fantastic playoff QB.

How is one a "very good playoff QB" and the other a "fantastic playoff QB" when their performance levels are so close? Oh, a couple stats I forgot:

Largest comeback in Conference Championship history: Manning 1 Brady 0
Game clinching INTs (postseason): Manning 0 Brady 1

MaxV
06-26-2009, 10:04 AM
For all of those that argue that TO should be there, keep in mind that he is among leaders in dropped passes every season.

Very talented player, but flawed.

I would take Harrison, Moss and Holt over him.

Smooth Criminal
06-26-2009, 10:43 AM
If the refs didn't blow the call in the 05 playoffs Manning would have thrown a game clincher to Polamalu.

Not really, cause there was like 5 minutes left I think. Just wanted to bring that up again.

2 Live Crew
06-26-2009, 10:58 AM
Largest comeback in Conference Championship history: Manning 1 Brady 0
Game clinching INTs (postseason): Manning 0 Brady 1

:rolleyes: Geez man you are really stretching here. Anyone can go on and on about things that one has done and the other hasn't. That's not the point of the argument.

The whole point of the argument for Brady is his playoff record vs. Manning's playoff record and the championships. The entire reason that people play football is to win. That's why we play. No one sets out to make decade yardage records or any other kind of records like that. That's just what happens when good players are trying to win games.

The entire point of the game of football is to win big games and win championships. Thats what players live for. Thats why some people choose Brady. You have yet to address this point at all in your argument.

Pretty laughable that you said Manning wouldn't trade his accolades for Brady's accomplishments and his 3 rings. Any professional player would tell you otherwise if you asked them that type question.

Dam8610
06-26-2009, 11:30 AM
The whole point of the argument for Brady is his playoff record vs. Manning's playoff record and the championships. The entire reason that people play football is to win. That's why we play. No one sets out to make decade yardage records or any other kind of records like that. That's just what happens when good players are trying to win games.

The entire point of the game of football is to win big games and win championships. Thats what players live for. Thats why some people choose Brady. You have yet to address this point at all in your argument.

In the NFL, no single player has ever been good enough to carry his team to a championship. It takes a complete team to win a championship, that's why I don't get the whole "wins big games" argument, as no QB can control what their defense or special teams do. Do you honestly think Manning played better against the Ravens in the 2006 postseason than he did against the Chargers in the 2007 postseason? According to the above rationale, you do.

Pretty laughable that you said Manning wouldn't trade his accolades for Brady's accomplishments and his 3 rings. Any professional player would tell you otherwise if you asked them that type question.

Why would he? It's not like he's Marino, who I can understand saying he'd trade all of his accomplishments for a championship, since he never won one, but Manning has. No one is going to ask Brett Favre, for example, "If you could, would you trade your career for Troy Aikman's?", because it's a stupid question, and he's likely to say no. Favre had the experience of winning a championship, which is why I suspect the greats who never won one, like Marino, openly admit that they would have liked to win one. Similarly, since Manning has had the experience of winning a championship, as well as the opportunity to win more, why would he trade his far more decorated career for 2 more championships?

Dam8610
06-26-2009, 11:34 AM
If the refs didn't blow the call in the 05 playoffs Manning would have thrown a game clincher to Polamalu.

Not really, cause there was like 5 minutes left I think. Just wanted to bring that up again.

The refs got the call right for the way the rule was written, the rule was just total crap. The phrase "football move" has since been removed from the NFL rulebook as it pertains to catches.

2 Live Crew
06-26-2009, 03:37 PM
In the NFL, no single player has ever been good enough to carry his team to a championship. It takes a complete team to win a championship, that's why I don't get the whole "wins big games" argument, as no QB can control what their defense or special teams do. Do you honestly think Manning played better against the Ravens in the 2006 postseason than he did against the Chargers in the 2007 postseason? According to the above rationale, you do.



Why would he? It's not like he's Marino, who I can understand saying he'd trade all of his accomplishments for a championship, since he never won one, but Manning has. No one is going to ask Brett Favre, for example, "If you could, would you trade your career for Troy Aikman's?", because it's a stupid question, and he's likely to say no. Favre had the experience of winning a championship, which is why I suspect the greats who never won one, like Marino, openly admit that they would have liked to win one. Similarly, since Manning has had the experience of winning a championship, as well as the opportunity to win more, why would he trade his far more decorated career for 2 more championships?

Oh well...I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here then. I just prefer to put more emphasis on super bowls than you, just a matter of preference. Manning is still a great player though.

By the way, Aikman vs. Favre can definetly be argued for who you want in a big game (this is coming from a redskins fan). But thats a whole nother discussion.

PS. IMO, I think the Patriots have a better chance of winning it all this year over the Colts. I hope Manning wins another one, I personally root for him more than Brady but don't see it happening.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 12:59 PM
2000s All-Decade Team

Offense: (First Team, Second Team)
QB: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady
RB: Ladainian Tomlinson, Jamal Lewis
RB: Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James
WR: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens
WR: Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt
TE: Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates
OT: Orlando Pace, Tarik Glenn
OT: Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden
G: Alan Faneca, Will Shields
G: Steve Hutchinson, Larry Allen
C: Kevin Mawae, Olin Kreutz

Defense on the way...

Gay Ork Wang
11-30-2009, 01:05 PM
im not sure about Clinton Portis and Jamal Lewis. He was never that dominant like the others, he was great, but not All Decade id say

Bengals78
11-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Im just gonna say it, right tackles never get considered for the tackle spots. Willie Anderson was one of the most dominant RT ever. Just because they make for a good LT doesn't mean they will make a good RT. Just saying.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 01:09 PM
im not sure about Clinton Portis and Jamal Lewis. He was never that dominant like the others, he was great, but not All Decade id say

I was saying that at first, I was thinking about Marshall Faulk or maybe Curtis Martin. I took at look at the numbers though and they definetly do not lie. As far as 2000-2009 are concerned.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 01:13 PM
2000s All-Decade Team

Defense: (First Team, Second Team)
DE: Michael Strahan, Jason Taylor
DE: Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney
DT: Warren Sapp, Sam Adams
DT: Richard Seymour, Jamal Williams
ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher
OLB: Derrick Brooks, Takeo Spikes
OLB: Keith Brooking, Julian Peterson
CB: Champ Bailey, Ronde Barber
CB: Ty Law, Charles Woodson
S: Ed Reed, John Lynch
S: Troy Polamalu, Brian Dawkins

CC.SD
11-30-2009, 01:22 PM
Zooooombie thread

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 01:50 PM
2000s All-Decade Team

Offense: (First Team, Second Team)
QB: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady
RB: Ladainian Tomlinson, Jamal Lewis
RB: Clinton Portis, Edgerrin James
WR: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens
WR: Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt
TE: Tony Gonzales, Antonio Gates
OT: Orlando Pace, Tarik Glenn
OT: Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden
G: Alan Faneca, Will Shields
G: Steve Hutchinson, Larry Allen
C: Kevin Mawae, Olin Kreutz

Defense: (First Team, Second Team)
DE: Michael Strahan, Jason Taylor
DE: Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney
DT: Warren Sapp, Sam Adams
DT: Richard Seymour, Jamal Williams
ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher
OLB: Derrick Brooks, Takeo Spikes
OLB: Keith Brooking, Julian Peterson
CB: Champ Bailey, Ronde Barber
CB: Ty Law, Charles Woodson
S: Ed Reed, John Lynch
S: Troy Polamalu, Brian Dawkins

This is the format of the positions from the official All-90's team. I'm not sure which positions they plan on changing, so I just used the latest format.

I know its not perfect and lots of arguing will take place (even when the official one is released) but I tried to take into account accomplishments and dominance from 2000-2009. Tell me what you think.

Dirk360
11-30-2009, 01:52 PM
Disagree with peyton manning. where is reggie wayne and jeff saturday?

Gay Ork Wang
11-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Disagree with peyton manning. where is reggie wayne and jeff saturday?
what is there to disagree with Manning

vidae
11-30-2009, 01:56 PM
Where is Willie Roaf?

Dirk360
11-30-2009, 01:57 PM
what is there to disagree with Manning

it isnt due to any major flaws in his game. unfortunately, the best guy plays the same position he does.

while were at it, get mawae off that team. his underhanded tacticts disgust me and he has been coasting off reputation for a long long time. indeed, it is michael roos and david stewart that truly make that line.

Thumper
11-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Brian Dawkins should make the team over Troy Polamalu and one could make the argument that Darren Sharper could be on the team as well over Ed Reed.

Gay Ork Wang
11-30-2009, 02:02 PM
it isnt due to any major flaws in his game. unfortunately, the best guy plays the same position he does.

while were at it, get mawae off that team. his underhanded tacticts disgust me and he has been coasting off reputation for a long long time. indeed, it is michael roos and david stewart that truly make that line.
so you are saying that Brady is #1 or that Manning shouldnt make the team

Dirk360
11-30-2009, 02:05 PM
so you are saying that Brady is #1 or that Manning shouldnt make the team

manning should still make the team. he is very awful. alot of very good players on that team.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 02:10 PM
Disagree with peyton manning. where is reggie wayne and jeff saturday?

Well I assume by "disagree" with Manning you mean he should be Second Team.

Wayne is not going to make it because Holt is going to beat him out.

Saturday is definetly a good argument and I could see him making it definetly.

Dirk360
11-30-2009, 02:11 PM
Well I assume by "disagree" with Manning you mean he should be Second Team.

Wayne is not going to make it because Holt is going to beat him out.

Saturday is definetly a good argument and I could see him making it definetly.

holt over wayne is very arguable.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 02:13 PM
Where is Willie Roaf?

Roaf is actually a starter on the 90's team.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-30-2009, 02:20 PM
Can someone explain to me how Owens and Moss aren't the clearcut first team of receivers in this decade? They're easily the most productive statistically and they've easily been the most consistently dominant.

Dirk360
11-30-2009, 02:22 PM
Can someone explain to me how Owens and Moss aren't the clearcut first team of receivers in this decade? They're easily the most productive statistically and they've easily been the most consistently dominant.

the lack of a gold ring might have something to do with it.

bigmac076
11-30-2009, 02:30 PM
holt over wayne is very arguable.

Look this is not a pro bowl team its All-Decade. You could make and argument for Wayne yes, but Holt (since 2001; Wayne's rookie year) still leads him in yardage by over 1600 yards. Plus, Holt has an extra year on Wayne in the decade (2000 season) in which he had over 80 catches and over 1600 yards. Like I said, you can definetly make an argument for Wayne but with Harrison already there its going to be tough to make a spot for Wayne as well.

CC.SD
11-30-2009, 02:35 PM
Can someone explain to me how Owens and Moss aren't the clearcut first team of receivers in this decade? They're easily the most productive statistically and they've easily been the most consistently dominant.

This is true. TO and Moss have to be the wideouts due to sheer dominance, plus entertainment factor.

TitanHope
11-30-2009, 03:36 PM
My disagreements.

QB: I take Peyton Manning over Tom Brady. Two great QB's, but can you not give it to the QB has 3 MVP's this decade? Just because Brady has 3 rings? Manning has double the Pro Bowls as Brady does. He's got 4 times as many 1st Team All-Pro's. He's got twice as many 2nd Team All-Pro's. He's got 3 MVP's to Brady's 1, and although Brady has 3 SB wins, Manning has won one as well. It's gotta be Manning, in my opinion, but if there's anybody else who's deserving, it's Brady.

DT: Kris Jenkins? Seriously?

OC: I'd put Mawae over Kreutz, but that may just be personal bias.

LB: Hard to argue with two former DPOY's in Urlacher and Ray Lewis taking an OLB spot, but Keith Bulluck deserves more than a shout out.

Some others too, but I don't really feel strongly enough about it to keep on typing.

gsorace
11-30-2009, 04:11 PM
the lack of a gold ring might have something to do with it.

That's a terrible reason.

49ers1984
11-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Peyton doesnt choke. His team does

He has 17 td and 20 ints in the playoffs but yeah believe it is all the team

Gay Ork Wang
11-30-2009, 04:26 PM
He has 17 td and 20 ints in the playoffs but yeah believe it is all the team
oh right, obviously if your stats are bad its always on you

49ers1984
11-30-2009, 04:30 PM
Here's the problem I have with it: Manning has dominated this decade, plain and simple. No QB has ever put up the kind of numbers in a decade that Manning has in the 00s, and the 00s aren't even finished yet. Manning's 37,754 passing yards this decade are the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd is Favre in 00s with 34,243 followed by Marino in 90s with 33,508), his 281 TD passes are also the most ever by any QB in a decade (2nd and 3rd are Favre with 235 (90s, led decade) and 229 (00s)), and his 101 Wins are the most by any QB in a decade (2nd is Aikman (90s) with 90, 3rd is a tie between Brady (00s) and Favre (00s) with 87), and his 98.0 passer rating for the 00s is second only to Steve Young's 101.2 passer rating for the 90s. If Manning throws for 2,246 yards and 19 TDs this season (which would be an extremely subpar season for him), he will become the first QB in NFL history to throw for 40,000 yards and 300 TDs (long held career HOF benchmarks) in a decade. 9 wins this season would give the Manning-led Colts 110 for the 00s, or an average of 11 wins per season. The Colts also became the first team in NFL history to win 12+ games for 6 consecutive seasons. As for individual accolades, in the 00s, Manning is an 8 time Pro Bowler (T-1st Norm Van Brocklin), 4 time 1st Team All-Pro (T-1st Otto Graham), 3 time MVP (T-1st Brett Favre), set the record for Passer Rating in a season (121.1), and became the only player in NFL history to win the Regular Season, Super Bowl, and Pro Bowl MVP. I could understand not picking Manning if Manning didn't hold all these records with a year left to play, but he does, which is why it makes no sense. Simply put, no QB has ever put together a decade like Manning has in 9 seasons.

You play the game to win not to put up huge stats. Just because you put up better stats does not make you the better player. Last year Drew Brees had over 5000 yards but no one really considered him one of the best players in the league.

49ers1984
11-30-2009, 04:32 PM
oh right, obviously if your stats are bad its always on you

So Manning gets all the praise when he throwing tds and breaking records but when he throws interceptions it is not his fault? You can not have it both ways.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-30-2009, 04:32 PM
He has 17 td and 20 ints in the playoffs but yeah believe it is all the team

What are you talking about? He has 22 TD and 17 INT in the playoffs.

gsorace
11-30-2009, 04:43 PM
Last year Drew Brees had over 5000 yards but no one really considered him one of the best players in the league.

Really? He won the offensive player of the year and was an all pro.

Gay Ork Wang
11-30-2009, 04:45 PM
Really? He won the offensive player of the year and was an all pro.
that doesnt count

CC.SD
11-30-2009, 04:56 PM
He was also #2 in MVP voting in 2006 and has made many pro bowls.

Bengals78
11-30-2009, 04:58 PM
Really? He won the offensive player of the year and was an all pro.

Please. Stop with the logic ;)

Crazy_Chris
11-30-2009, 05:37 PM
2000s All-Decade Team

Defense: (First Team, Second Team)
DE: Michael Strahan, Jason Taylor
DE: Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney
DT: Warren Sapp, Sam Adams
DT: Richard Seymour, Jamal Williams
ILB: Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher
OLB: Derrick Brooks, Takeo Spikes
OLB: Keith Brooking, Julian Peterson
CB: Champ Bailey, Ronde Barber
CB: Ty Law, Charles Woodson
S: Ed Reed, John Lynch
S: Troy Polamalu, Brian Dawkins

Kevin Williams should be the 2nd DT on the first team all decade list.

Addict
11-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Please. Stop with the logic ;)

rational arguments hurt my head.

also: I like rocks.

Shiver
11-30-2009, 06:40 PM
There are several major, unforgivable problems here:

Ty Law should be in over Troy Vincent and it isn't even close.

Terrell Owens and Randy Moss excluded for Harrison and Holt? Why?

But they did get the QB position right. Brady has been just as prolific and he has been the much better playoff QB.

CC.SD
11-30-2009, 07:08 PM
rational arguments hurt my head.

also: I like rocks.

I like turtles.

49ers1984
12-02-2009, 06:00 PM
What are you talking about? He has 22 TD and 17 INT in the playoffs.

your right i read that wrong but that still is not great

Jvig43
12-02-2009, 07:07 PM
Should of just went ahead and labeled this Brady vs Manning.

Ill second the Moss/Owens should of been on there.

wogitalia
12-03-2009, 12:23 AM
I think it is safe to say that RB is by far the easiest position to pick.

LT has it on lock and really doesn't have any competition.

QB is between Manning and Brady and is a personal choice. I like Brady more but think that Manning deserves the spot just a little bit more.

WR for me is Moss and then pick your poision. Harrison has consistency, Owens has dominance, I think it is between those two, with honourable mentions to Holt, Wayne and a couple of others.

Gonzalez edges Gates for TE. No one else is close in my book.

OT for me is actually a pretty tough one. Basically all the top candidates at LT have fallen off/retired with a few years left. I think LT is out of Ogden, Pace and Jones with an honourable mention to Glenn(and probably someone else I'm forgetting). There hasn't been a decade long dominant LT though, it gets really hard if you bring in RTs as well. Personally I think you really should, it is actually a fairly different position, but for arguments sake I would say pick 2 of the 3 LTs and say really unlucky to the third.

Guards are the same, I think the best two have probably been Hutch and Faneca, so I will go with them. Many other worthy candidates.

The article is spot on at center. There are 3 guys to pick from. I would probably go with Mawae because imo he has been the best of the 3 for the last few years and there really wasn't much between them in the first part that I can tell.

Neal seems a pretty obvious choice as a fullback. I was a big Richardson fan also.

Defense might be even harder to pick. I think Ray Lewis at MLB, Champ Bailey at CB and Derrick Brooks at OLB are the only obvious picks.

I think that Strahan and Taylor is probably the correct pick at DE, though the way Allen is finishing has to give him some serious consideration. Can't argue with the top two though, I think it is a fair pick. Seymour also deserves legitimate consideration.

DT is probably the hardest. Sapp was the best for the first half but outside of that you either go with a NT who won't have the statistical backing or someone who wasn't a full decade guy. Personally I'm probably biased, but Kevin Williams is as good a DT as I have seen not named Sapp. Hampton, J and P Williams, Wilfork, Jenkins and Rogers all deserve mentions as well. Just a really tough choice, especially given the prevalence of the 3-4, particularly in the later half of the decade.

OLB is Brooks and probably Bullock for me. I can't think of a 3-4 OLB who has been dominant for the decade and I can't think of anyone who was flat out better than Bullock.

MLB is just easy. Lewis was better than Urlacher for basically every year, there may have been 1 or 2 years in the decade where he wasn't better. Willis is the best, imo, right now, but he hasn't been around near long enough. Zach Thomas was also pretty damn good, but never better than Ray imo.

CB is Bailey and probably Law for me. There have been many other good players but those two stand out.

Safety is tough. Reed and Polamalu are the two most talented but a part of me says that Sharper deserves a mention also. Sharper was very ordinary with the Vikes though, just didn't fit the system and refused to adapt to try and fit, he was pretty damn good with the Packers and might be even better with the Saints though, but those years with the Saints basically rule out his amount played advantage over Reed and Polamalu, so I have to go with them.

Certainly a tough topic though. RB and MLB were the two easiest for me to pick.

CC.SD
12-03-2009, 02:32 AM
Waters should have been one of the guards over Faneca IMO.

diabsoule
12-03-2009, 04:15 AM
There were many voices raised in in regards to ESPN's All-Decade Team. People debated on wide receivers, linebackers, defensive tackles, and other positions. Here, however, that will try to be laid to rest. Some players were considered second best or not even close to those that were chosen for the first team. ESPN acknowledged that several All-Star and Pro-Bowl players weren't chosen because of how much star power has existed in the NFL this decade. This time, though, they do make the team. The hardest positions to fill were running back, offensive tackle (outside of Orlando Pace), defensive tackle, safety (outside of Brian Dawkins), and cornerback (outside of Charles Woodson).

QB: Peyton Manning

This decade the Manning vs. Brady debate has raged on. Brady has more Super Bowls. Manning is more cerebral. With Brady being the quarterback for the first team All-Decade Team who better to lead the second team?

RB: Shaun Alexander

Outside of LaDainian Tomlinson there is no clear #2 running back. Priest Holmes, Marshall Faulk, Fred Taylor, and others could all compete for that spot. Alexander gets the nod, though, because from 2001-2005 he was dominant.

FB: Tony Richardson

While he didn't get the amount of publicity that Lorenzo Neal did, Richards has been one of the best blocking fullbacks this decade helping pave the way for 1,000 yard rushers Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Thomas Jones.

WR: Randy Moss and Terrell Owens

Controversy has surrounded both of these wide receivers throughout their career in the NFL but there is no doubting the talent level that these two possess. Owens is a prototypical possession receiver that has a freakish build while Moss can stretch defenses like no other. While the first team has quiet, productive leaders on the field in Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt, the second team makes up for that in star power and their ability to pressure the defense on which receiver to double team.

TE: Antonio Gates

This was a toss up as Gates and Colts TE Dallas Clark have been in the league for the same amount of time, however, Gates ability as a blocker and pass-catcher plus his ability to stretch defenses put him over the edge.

LT: Orlando Pace

During his prime, Pace was one of the best left tackles in the game. He helped anchor the offensive line for the Greatest Show on Turf and protected Kurt Warner's blind side during their Super Bowl runs. Pace was usually third in the discussion on who was the better left tackle between him, Jonathan Odgen and Walter Jones.

LG: Will Shields

One of the best guards this decade has seen and was one of, if not, the key figure along the Kansas City Chiefs offensive line for several years. In his career Shields only missed one game and earned seven Pro Bowl trips this decade.

C: Kevin Mawae

You can make a solid case that Mawae has been the best center of the decade, however, Bears C Olin Kreutz was drafted to the first team. In this case in came down between Mawae and long time Vikings center Matt Birk and really this was a toss-up. Mawae got the nod due to his longevity in the league.

RG: Larry Allen

A long time offensive lineman in the NFL, Allen had been one of the most reliable blockers this decade earning six Pro Bowl trips this decade. He made eleven straight during his pro career.

RT: Willie Roaf

One of the best tackles in the league throughout the 1990s, Roaf continued his excellent up until his retirement. While Tarik Glenn and Willie Anderson were considered as well, Roaf's dominance even after missing a year due to injury put him here over the other two.

DE: Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney

While both are speed pass rushers, they are two of the best in the business at doing it. Ever since coming into the league both have been nearly unblockable and give coordinators fits in trying to figure out ways to contain them.

DT: Kevin Williams and La'Roi Glover

Glover was one of the most feared three tech defensive tackles during his prime, while Kevin Williams has helped anchor part of a Vikings defensive line that has the NFL's best rush defense for three consecutive years.

LB: Keith Bulluck, Zach Thomas, Julian Peterson

Bulluck may be the most unsung players in the NFL yet he continues to make plays. Outside of Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher, Thomas may have been the best middle linebacker of this decade although London Fletcher is nipping at his heels. Finally, Peterson was one of the most versatile linebackers the game had seen this decade.

CB: Ty Law and Charles Woodson

During Law's prime, he was the bane of many quarterback's existence. His play helped New England win three Super Bowls while Woodson remains one of the most complete cornerbacks still playing.

Safeties: Brian Dawkins and John Lynch

There were others to consider outside of Lynch as Adrian Wilson and Darren Sharper both deserve mention but Brian Dawkins still to this day remains one of the best safeties in the league. Lynch was named as one of the most feared hitters ever in the NFL and Dawkins is known for his leadership style and cerebral play. Between the two of them they have 13 Pro Bowls this decade.

diabsoule
12-03-2009, 09:24 PM
Some guys I considered when putting together the 2nd team All-Decade Team

Running Backs
Brian Westbrook
Priest Holmes
Marshall Faulk
Fred Taylor
Ahman Green
Edgerrin James

Wide Receivers
Derrick Mason
Bobby Engram
Reggie Wayne
Chad Ochocinco (Johnson)
Isaac Bruce
Hines Ward

Offensive Linemen
Matt Lepsis
Dan Koppen
Shaun O'Hara
Matt Birk
Willie Anderson
Tarik Glenn
Chris Samuels
Lincoln Kennedy
Kyle Turley

Defensive Ends
Aaron Smith
Robert Mathis
Julius Peppers
Osi Umenyiora
Patrick Kerney
John Abraham

Defensive Tackles
Casey Hampton
Vince Wilfork
Kelly Gregg
Jamal Williams
Pat Williams
Marcus Stroud
Bryant Young
Richard Seymour

Linebackers
Lance Briggs
London Fletcher
Joey Porter
Al Wilson

Cornerback
Troy Vincent
Shawn Springs
Ronde Barber
Sam Madison
Al Harris
Patrick Surtain

Don Vito
12-03-2009, 09:34 PM
I don't really see how Wilfork could be mentioned here, he has emerged into a star for us and has huge potential but he hasn't really been playing long enough to get consideration in my opinion. Seymour certainly deserves it as a DT, we drafted him in 2000 and he has been dominant since his rookie year. He still is a beast now.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 08:13 AM
I still argue for Peyton over Brady, I mean its a crapshoot, but I think Brady's multiple championships are the reason he gets the edge, but I feel like Peyton's skills are much better then Brady's skills

I agree! I'd take Peyton aka GOD any day over Brady. Brady became Brady once Welker and Moss came. Then he started getting eye popping stats. Peyton is flat out the best QB ever to play the game. He pretty much runs the show, and does more than any QB. I'd take Peyton over Brady in a heart beat!

TitanHope
12-04-2009, 10:28 AM
Some guys I considered when putting together the 2nd team All-Decade Team

Running Backs
Brian Westbrook
Priest Holmes
Marshall Faulk
Fred Taylor
Ahman Green
Edgerrin James

Wide Receivers
Derrick Mason
Bobby Engram
Reggie Wayne
Chad Ochocinco (Johnson)
Isaac Bruce
Hines Ward

Offensive Linemen
Matt Lepsis
Dan Koppen
Shaun O'Hara
Matt Birk
Willie Anderson
Tarik Glenn
Chris Samuels
Lincoln Kennedy
Kyle Turley

Defensive Ends
Aaron Smith
Rashean Mathis
Julius Peppers
Osi Umenyiora
Patrick Kerney
John Abraham

Defensive Tackles
Casey Hampton
Vince Wilfork
Kelly Gregg
Jamal Williams
Pat Williams
Marcus Stroud
Bryant Young

Linebackers
Lance Briggs
London Fletcher
Joey Porter
Al Wilson

Cornerback
Troy Vincent
Shawn Springs
Ronde Barber
Sam Madison
Al Harris
Patrick Surtain

You have Rashean Mathis at DE. I think you mean Robert Mathis.

I think Jevon Kearse deverses consideration for DE. 60 sacks since 2000, and he's missed chunks out of two seasons due to injury.

Maybe Brad Hopkins at OL. He played from 2000-2005, and was an elite LT. Howzabout Jon Runyan too?

Definitely Steve McNair at QB consideration (although you don't have QB's up there).

Maybe Albert Haynesworth at DT? At a single point in this decade, he's arguably been the most dominant DT in the league next to Sapp. He gets knocked for under-achieving, but since 2006 onwards, he's been the best DT in the league. I think that warrants a shout out.

/ends homer rant :D

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
12-04-2009, 10:44 AM
You play the game to win not to put up huge stats. Just because you put up better stats does not make you the better player. Last year Drew Brees had over 5000 yards but no one really considered him one of the best players in the league.

6 straight 12 win seasons mean anything to you? What about the 117 regular season wins

Splat
12-04-2009, 10:48 AM
Waters should have been one of the guards over Faneca IMO.

I was getting ready to say this Shields is for sure going to the HOF I'm not sure you could say that about Faneca.

49ers1984
12-10-2009, 02:58 PM
6 straight 12 win seasons mean anything to you? What about the 117 regular season wins

That is great but the regular season wins mean nothing if you do not win in the playoffs. No one remembers how many wins a team has in a certain year. No one ever says wow that player was great because they had a ton of regular season wins. Peyton Manning has stared more games for his career so of course he will have more regular season wins.

Gay Ork Wang
12-10-2009, 03:04 PM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/5/25/myheadisalem128562305945288665.jpg

boknows34
01-28-2010, 05:42 AM
Twelve members of the 2000's All Decade team will be competing at the Pro Bowl. The complete team will be announced on ESPN's Sunday NFL Countdown (5.30 pm EST). Please put an emphasis on the word 'competing' as some All Decade selections will have been 2010 Pro Bowl selections but are not playing.

The 12 are:

Antonio Gates TE
Alan Faneca G
Steve Hutchinson G
Kevin Mawae C
Julius Peppers DE
Ray Lewis LB
DeMarcus Ware LB
Champ Bailey CB
Brian Dawkins S
Shane Lechler P
David Akers K
Josh Cribbs KR

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d816025c4&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


"This is a tremendous honor for me to be recognized as one of the best out of all the safeties who have played in the NFL this decade," says Denver safety Brian Dawkins, who was selected to his eighth career Pro Bowl and is one of the four All-Decade safeties. "To know I've been able to do the things I've been able to do, with the help of my teammates, to earn a spot on the league's All-Decade Team means a lot."


The decade's 53-player team will be comprised of two quarterbacks, four running backs, one fullback, four wide receivers, two tight ends, four offensive tackles, four guards, two centers, four defensive tackles, four defensive ends, six linebackers, four cornerbacks, four safeties, two kickers, two punters, two kick returners and two punt returners. Two head coaches have also been chosen.

Looks like Jared Allen was not selected as he is still scheduled to play in the Pro Bowl. Strahan and Taylor should be two of the DEs. Peppers being named means there is effectively just room for one more DE. No room for OchoCinco either but he was a long shot anyway. Gonzalez will be the 1st team TE with Gates (now confirmed as a selection) taking up the 2nd team spot. Only two spots left at guard and linebacker and one at center.

Gay Ork Wang
01-28-2010, 06:06 AM
i wouldnt take Julius Peppers over Jared Allen and Strahan.

JonasBlane
01-29-2010, 09:29 PM
Here are what my teams would look like.

First Team
QB - Peyton Manning
HB - LT
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Marvin Harrison, TO
TE - Gonzo
OL - Pace/Hutch/Kruetz/Shields/Ogden
DL - Jason Taylor/Warren Sapp/Kevin Williams/Strahan
LB - Brooks/Lewis/Urlacher
CB - Bailey/Law
S - Polamalu/Reed

Second Team
QB - Brady
HB - Shaun Alexander(not a huge fan of the guy, but the numbers he put up speak for themselves)
FB - Tony Richardson
WR - Randy Moss, Torry Holt
TE - Gates
OL - Jones, Faneca, Mawae, Allen, Roaf
DL - Jared Allen/Jenkins/Hampton/Freeney
LB - Bulluck, Thomas, Joey Porter
CB - Woodson, Vincent
S - Dawkins, Lynch

prock
01-30-2010, 01:03 AM
i wouldnt take Julius Peppers over Jared Allen and Strahan.

ill take jared allen over jesus. yes im biased, get over it!

Bengals78
01-30-2010, 08:28 AM
ill take jared allen over jesus. yes im biased, get over it!

They share the same barber...

Job
01-30-2010, 09:50 AM
I like their introduction : "The ESPN.com all-decade defense is stacked with Pro Bowlers."

No really? I can't believe it.

YAYareaRB
01-30-2010, 10:39 AM
Just to throw his name out there..

http://www.sportvox.fr/IMG/steve_young.bmp

Job
01-30-2010, 11:02 AM
Just to throw his name out there..

http://www.sportvox.fr/IMG/steve_young.bmp

Yeah I mean, disregard the fact he played his last game in 1999.

Bengals78
01-30-2010, 11:40 AM
Yeah I mean, disregard the fact he played his last game in 1999.

Hahaha. All decade broadcasting team...not really.

descendency
01-30-2010, 02:06 PM
Hahaha. All decade broadcasting team...not really.

Better than any other QB on TV lol

Bengals78
01-30-2010, 03:01 PM
Better than any other QB on TV lol

Is Rodney Peete not on Best Damn anymore?

BlindSite
01-30-2010, 06:07 PM
Really? Kris Jenkins? He burst on the scene during the Panthers hay-day, then fell off the face of the earth until he re-surfaced with the Jets. I'd much rather have Kevin Williams cause at the end of the decade he will have 7 straight years of dominance.

He didn't necessarily "fall off the scene" he was dominant, blew out his knee, blew out his shoulder, then came back and was dominant again.

2 years of injury shouldn't tarnish a guy who's been recognized as one of the best in the league when on the field for the decade.