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ElectricEye
03-02-2010, 10:00 AM
I don't get why people are so high on Jerry Hughes. Sure he has a lot of sacks, TFLs etc, but when you look at his film most of his production comes when playing LDE. I've got the same problem with Derrick Morgan. If you can't get to the QB playing RDE in college, how the hell are you going to do it in the NFL?! If he's there at #53 sure why not take him and see how things work out. But before that I wouldn't touch him.


The problem with that is that he WON'T be playing LDE end in the NFL. That stuff really doesn't matter when you switch a guy to outside linebacker. If you're looking at his as defensive end, sure, you look at where he projects better, but we're not. Also, there have been plenty of impact pass rushers to play LDE in college. It's not that big of a deal. There's no one better in this draft class in terms of getting into a backfield in a hurry than Jerry Hughes. Not one person. Especially someone who will be there in the second round. He's fast, athletic, and strong enough to handle playing OLB in a 3-4. Also doesn't hurt that he looked fluid in coverage.

AntoinCD
03-02-2010, 11:16 AM
I really like a few guys at 5 tech, namely Odrick, but one guy who has killed his stock in the last year is Oghabaase. And he had a horrible day yesterday.

FlyingElvis
03-02-2010, 11:18 AM
I really think Odrick may be our pick at 22.

ElectricEye
03-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Don't like Odrick as a DE in our scheme. Just doesn't seem to hold up against blocks all that well. Has the triangle numbers for it though.

FlyingElvis
03-02-2010, 11:52 AM
It's not that I'm hoping we grab him there, just a hunch. I would really rather not since we have decent depth along the dline.

I think my dream draft, at this point, would be

Graham
Hughes
Spikes

Then let the trade down game begin so we can grab Hardesty and Saffold in round 3. Or even Jacoby Ford and try to get Blount even later.

But I would be ecstatic if we could land those 5 this year, and I think all of them could reasonably fall to those spots.

Graham / Hughes / Spikes / Hardesty / Saffold

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

nepg
03-02-2010, 01:11 PM
I really think Odrick may be our pick at 22.
Belichick seems to have a deep-seeded dislike or disinterest in Penn State products... You couldn't get him to stop ranting about how much he disliked the idea of drafting Larry Johnson...

FlyingElvis
03-02-2010, 01:17 PM
Larry Johnson was a known jackass, though. He was a major character issue guy and proved that label was 100% accurate for the duration of his career. I don't think BB is myopic enough to allow a personal dislike for a program to cloud his evaluation of a propect.

ElectricEye
03-02-2010, 07:22 PM
It's not that I'm hoping we grab him there, just a hunch. I would really rather not since we have decent depth along the dline.

I think my dream draft, at this point, would be

Graham
Hughes
Spikes

Then let the trade down game begin so we can grab Hardesty and Saffold in round 3. Or even Jacoby Ford and try to get Blount even later.

But I would be ecstatic if we could land those 5 this year, and I think all of them could reasonably fall to those spots.

Graham / Hughes / Spikes / Hardesty / Saffold

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Unfortunately, with the 4.4 time for Hardesty, I doubt he lasts all the way until the third :( Wouldn't mind Matthews with a high second rounder or Hardesty with a lower one though, so long as we come out with a linebacker.

nepg
03-03-2010, 08:04 AM
Why wouldn't Hardesty last until the 3rd? He's not that highly-touted, and there are plenty of guys that run well that get passed over on draft weekend.

No one's mentioned Everson Griffen? 3-4 OLB is super-deep. Unless someone falls or is unworldly, the Pats are probably best-off making sure they get their OG by drafting Iupati or Pouncey in the first.

FlyingElvis
03-03-2010, 09:33 AM
I don't like Iupati or Pouncey enough to take either at 22 (not that what I like matters.) Interior Oline is just not a good value in round one, ever.

Mankins at 32 was right at the cusp of decent value for interior guys and that was a year where we didn't have 3 picks in round 2. Hell, we didn't even have a second round pick that year, though I believe we traded the 2nd round pick to Balitmore on draft day.

I think Pouncey in round two somewhere would be great. Saffold looked very impressive athletically at the combine and was already considered a second round pick, so Saffold or Hardesty at 53 would be fine. Then we can grab Abilene Christian OT Tony Washington in round 4. He looked like a beast in the combine - definitely worthy of a flier. Roll with Light & Vollmer this year, coach up Washington and have a pair of 6'7+ bookend OTs for the next decade.

I think EE has it right on Hardesty. He showed too much athletic ability overall, and flat out sick speed for a big back. He won't make it to our 4th by any stretch of the imagination, nor will Tate. At this point I would even be surprised to see Blount fall that far. The RBs may be plentiful, and they may not be highly-touted, but every team sees the success of 3 & 4th round RBs recently so no team will be dumb enough to let them fall too far. I would be shocked to see Blount make it out of round 3 and Hardesty/Tate will go long before he does.

ElectricEye
03-03-2010, 10:36 AM
Why wouldn't Hardesty last until the 3rd? He's not that highly-touted, and there are plenty of guys that run well that get passed over on draft weekend.

No one's mentioned Everson Griffen? 3-4 OLB is super-deep. Unless someone falls or is unworldly, the Pats are probably best-off making sure they get their OG by drafting Iupati or Pouncey in the first.

He was already on the cusp of the second round after being mocked there for most of the year. The 4.4 didn't just help him, it REALLY helped him. Lot of people were expecting something more in the late 4.5 to low 4.6 range, but he backed up his film. He's still behind Matthews and probably Gerhart on most boards, but there's probably a few where he isn't too.

As far as Everson Griffen goes, he looked terrible in the linebacker drills. He was tripping over himself every time he was asked to move laterally and just didn't look fluid or quick. Sort of surprising, thought he would help himself there.

DiG
03-04-2010, 11:52 AM
if mclain fell to 22 would he be the pick over a rusher like kindle? or is a pass rush threat that bigger of a need?

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Tully Banta-Cain lead the Pats in sacks last year with 10 sacks. 5 of them came vs. the Bills.

Pass rush is needed so badly most of the Pats fans here are hoping BB uses 2 of the 4 picks through #53 overall on young OLBs.

@ 22 - McClain over Kindle? probably not.

@ 22 - McClain over Graham? maybe. Simply b/c of the height & length issue.

If it's Mclain vs. any of the second teir rushers (Hughes, Sapp, etc.) then it should definitely be McClain.

I hope, anyway. On draft day . . . who the **** knows.

Razor
03-04-2010, 12:15 PM
I think that there's a good chance that McClain would be the pick instead of Kindle of both are available. McClain is a Patrick Willis-like prospect, and should he fall to #22 it would be foolish not to pick him. Even if Kindle is available. Hopefully they trade next years first rounder (Patriots' pick that is) to another team later in the first to pick up Kindle/Spikes regardless of what they might do at #22.

DiG
03-04-2010, 12:19 PM
its a tough call the way i see it. i think pass rusher is definitely the bigger need but im not sold that mclain isnt the better value. i think moving up into the first for the other would be tough though because i think GB easily could take whichever of those two players you didnt take.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 12:23 PM
McClain @ 22 and then Sapp/Hughes (both?) in the second would be fine. But I think the measurables on Kindle would be tough to pass up. BB has to see the monsterous hole at OLB and he always wants the big, lanky propect to fill it. With all the teams going 3-4 and the high demand for the rushbacker I think it would be a tough choice. Though it is one I would love to see him have to make. :D

Razor
03-04-2010, 12:31 PM
Don't get me wrong. For me, this draft is Kindle or bust! But if McClain falls into our laps.... Man, I hope BB selects McClain. Just the thought of having Mayo and McClain in the middle for the next decade (assuming we start paying our starters) forces me to go change my underwear. Repeatedly. If that happens and we move up and get Kindle or get Sapp in the second this draft will be awesome.

AntoinCD
03-04-2010, 12:34 PM
If McClain is there by 22 I would love him to be the pick but come on he is not a P-Willy type prospect. I luuuuuvvvvvvvvvvv McClain but I think he is really being overrated at the minute. P-Willy has chased down running backs and WRs in the NFL, McClain didnt run at the combine because he will time poorly(write it down), McClain may not be able to fit in the 4-3 either. McClain is a better prospect than Mayo but P-Willy is a once in a decade type.

Razor
03-04-2010, 12:39 PM
I think he is. And dare I say it? - Maybe the next Ray Lewis? I was impressed every time I saw McClain play, and even if he runs a 4.6 or 4.7 his game speed is still much, much faster than that. He's big, strong, smart, a leader, good angles and tackling, decent to good in coverage (but hey, we have Mayo!), ..... (much later) .... , he played for Saban and he has great intangibles. Did I forget something? Probably.. :)

ElectricEye
03-04-2010, 04:52 PM
If McClain is there, we pull the trigger. No doubt about it. He's an elite player and is the PERFECT 3-4 ILB. He could also be used outside effectively as well. He's an underrated blitzer.

nepg
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
After Suh & McCoy, McClain is the #1 player on the Pats board - no doubt.

Don Vito
03-05-2010, 12:43 PM
After Suh & McCoy, McClain is the #1 player on the Pats board - no doubt.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Berry could be there too, BB has a man crush on Ed Reed (pretty sure he said he was his favorite player) and they have very similar games. McClain looks to have everything BB looks for-intelligence, size, toughness, athleticism, fundamentals of the position, and is a Saban product to boot. Doubt he makes it out of the top 10 but if somehow he makes it to us that pick will be in as soon as it can be.

descendency
03-05-2010, 01:07 PM
No one's mentioned Everson Griffen?

Because he's purely a 43 LDE. He looked awful in coverage drills. He looked awful in space drills.

Think about him like the Broncos should have thought of Robert Ayers.

bigbuc
03-13-2010, 03:55 PM
I think you guys might have to go WR in round one. Wes with his knee and cuff won't be the same player this year... but will come back. Then you have Moss who's 33 and on the last year of his deal.

proshoota25
03-13-2010, 04:07 PM
I think you guys might have to go WR in round one. Wes with his knee and cuff won't be the same player this year... but will come back. Then you have Moss who's 33 and on the last year of his deal.

you can prolly get the same value at the top of the second round if we targeted WR early

descendency
03-13-2010, 07:58 PM
edit: nevermind.

chad72
03-15-2010, 11:10 AM
As a Colts fan, I am a bit leery of what the Pats could come away with in this talented draft on offense and defense knowing they have 4 picks within the first 53 picks.

If the Pats go something like Golden Tate (WR), Tyson Alualu (Justin Tuck like DT in the fact that he can be moved around the line to play UT and DE), Jermaine Cunningham (pure pass rusher), and Dennis Pitta (TE - he is a Dallas Clark clone to me) on day 1 with their first 4 picks, the Pats become an instant contender. They will go with Brandon Graham is he is on the board for their first pick, that probably is a no brainer to me, Golden Tate would actually be a good pick given Moss' long term tenuous situation. The Titans or Giants may pass on a one year wonder like Jason Pierre Paul and pull the trigger on Brandon Graham, I have a sneaky suspicion.

Hoping for a good duel in Foxboro this year!!!:)

FlyingElvis
03-15-2010, 11:22 AM
I would not be happy with Cunningham or Pitta in round 2. Alualu would be ok with the last pick (53) but I would not be happy with him at 44.

I like Pitta, but with no TEs on the roster I can't see NE taking a guy that isn't going to do very well as an inline blocker. David Thomas was sent packing b/c he can't do that either.

Hopefully the FO doesn't get caught up in the lack of ideal height of Graham. He's going to be a good player for a long time and I would hate to see BB pass on him and let him be a stud bookend for Green Bay. 2 years in a row would really piss me off. But I think you're right that Graham may not be available @ 22 anyway.

My concern is that Scott's latest mock seems way too plausible and we end up with Sapp as our only OLB in the top 4 picks.

chad72
03-15-2010, 11:34 AM
I like Pitta, but with no TEs on the roster I can't see NE taking a guy that isn't going to do very well as an inline blocker. David Thomas was sent packing b/c he can't do that either.



If you are going to get 2 TEs in the draft, you might as well get a receiving TE too. The Pats love to spread the field and a receving TE gives you more options, IMO. Ultimately, if you protect Brady, he will find the open man and Dennis Pitta, like Dallas Clark, is going to find the holes better than any receiving TE in this draft and get open, if his 3 cone drill speed is any indication. The inline blocking TEs like Jimmy Graham, and even Nate Byham of Pittsburgh can be had later but there are few receiving TEs in this draft.

Dorin Dickerson is a 1 year wonder, IMO, and the role that he played was played by Nate Byham for Pittsburgh the previous year and Pittsburgh asked Byham to be a blocking TE this year while Dorin caught the TDs. So, I would say Byham is more well rounded. Given the success Dallas Clark, Owen Daniels and Dustin Keller have been having in this pass happy league, investing in a pass catching TE (if you are drafting 2 TEs) would not be a bad investment at all, IMO.

FlyingElvis
03-15-2010, 12:59 PM
I agree with you but just don't see a second round value for any TE that is not a dual threat. I'd love Pitta in the Pats offense, just not as a 2nd round pick. The second TE spot (blocker only) can be filled late and the 2nd round TE (imo) should be a guy like Gresham or Gronkowski that will at least be able to lineup next to the tackle without being a total liability.

As much as I'd like to see a pass catching threat at TE, the release of David Thomas makes it pretty clear that BB only places the high value on guys who can do both. Watson & Daniel Graham were the high draft selections and both were decent prospects for both tasks.

Personally, I'd be fine with a kid like Jimmy Graham getting a chance to develop into a total package TE. Give me him in the 4th (only b/c we don't have a 5th and he probably won't last that long anyway) and Gronk or Gresham early. If Gresham slides to 44, where Scott has him going to NE in his most recent mock, it's a no brainer. But I seriously doubt that happens. Mayock said several times that many execs/staffers were saying they "hoped Gresham falls to them." I doubt he makes it by NE/Balt and I seriously doubt he makes it by The Rams @ 33 or KC/Buffalo in round 2.

proshoota25
03-15-2010, 03:49 PM
have we heard of the patriots setting up private workouts for prospects?

FlyingElvis
03-15-2010, 03:54 PM
I haven't heard anything.

Typical Patriots business, I guess.

We're going to end up drafting zero OLBs this year, I can just feel it. I'm scared.

It's going to be all TE, DE, RB and OLine.

proshoota25
03-15-2010, 04:34 PM
I haven't heard anything.

Typical Patriots business, I guess.

We're going to end up drafting zero OLBs this year, I can just feel it. I'm scared.

It's going to be all TE, DE, RB and OLine.

or it will be a bunch of guys that we dont like. along with awful value. thats how us pats fans have to live unfortunately

ElectricEye
03-15-2010, 08:48 PM
You guys are depressing. This is the year we turn around in the draft and stop doing stupid **** just to look smart! Hopefully :(

Longclaw
03-15-2010, 09:48 PM
What do you guys think about Greg Hardy and if he's a good fit for the Pats at OLB? I know he has issues but if there's a team that can straighten him up it's going to be New England.

Matthew Jones
03-15-2010, 10:22 PM
What do you guys think about Greg Hardy and if he's a good fit for the Pats at OLB? I know he has issues but if there's a team that can straighten him up it's going to be New England.

I don't buy Greg Hardy in a 3-4 at all. I know he said something about being able to play in one but what draft prospect is going to talk his way out of being potentially picked by half of the league? This guy is a traditional 4-3 defensive end.

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:16 PM
I don't buy Greg Hardy in a 3-4 at all. I know he said something about being able to play in one but what draft prospect is going to talk his way out of being potentially picked by half of the league? This guy is a traditional 4-3 defensive end.

Did you see him in drills at the combine? He looked really comfortable in space and he was very fluid for a guy his size. He would need to get in 3-4 OLB shape to play it, but he looks like he's more than able to make the transition. I previously thought that about him too, but he looked really, really solid at LB in drills.


In other news; Dunlap ran a high 4.5, low 4.6. That might take him out of our range, which I certainly wouldn't mind...but if he's there for us that might make him more attractive, unfortunately.

FlyingElvis
03-17-2010, 01:30 PM
^Especially with the lockerroom leadership at an all time low. Ugh. You can't help but love what Dunlap brings physically, it's just too bad he seems like a guy who will take the money and run.


I still want Hardy. Maybe I'll add him to my sig mock again to balance out all the offense.

ElectricEye
03-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Yeah, so many unknowns with Dunlap. He didn't do any stand up drills at the combine either, so we have no idea at all how he is in space.

Matthew Jones
03-18-2010, 07:58 AM
SOUND THE ALARMS!

Tim Tebow has been invited to New England for a private workout, according to the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-17/improved-mechanics-tebow-shows-hes-quarterback

Razor
03-18-2010, 08:31 AM
SOUND THE ALARMS!

Tim Tebow has been invited to New England for a private workout, according to the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-17/improved-mechanics-tebow-shows-hes-quarterback

If he gets drafted by the Patriots I will become a Jets fan!

ElectricEye
03-18-2010, 09:15 AM
Well, at least we aren't the only ones...

FlyingElvis
03-18-2010, 10:01 AM
I stand by my original thoughts when Scott first talked about NE being in the hunt: If it's at 53 I will be ok with it. Anything higher is silly for a team that won't need him until the he's in the last year of his rookie contract.

I also stand by my belief that it's a smokescreen.

My god, can you imagine how much the Football watching world will hate the New England Patriots if they have Tom & Tim Terrific being shoved down their throats on a regular basis?

That is just frightening.

Defsoul
03-18-2010, 10:42 AM
I still want Hardy. Maybe I'll add him to my sig mock again to balance out all the offense.

Hardy seems to lose his motivation and focus time and time again. He can be as good as he wants, you just have to keep him motivated.

proshoota25
03-18-2010, 03:02 PM
last pick in the second round is the only place id pick tebow for the pats

descendency
03-20-2010, 03:05 AM
Wish List

1st Round (22nd): Brandon Graham, DE/OLB, Michigan
Yes... Please? The best pass rusher, run stopper, and coverage combination of any DE in the draft. If he is available here, it will be because he is slightly under-sized. When he came out of high school, it was as the #1 LB in the country. If you lined up their measureables or their game film, you would have a VERY hard time telling LaMarr Woodley from Brandon Graham. I think Graham may be better in all aspects of the game though.

(as an aside, I think Hughes is a better pass rusher, Derrick Morgan is better against the run, and Graham may be about the same as Hughes in coverage. JPP might be the best in coverage though)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

2nd Round (44th): Maurkice Pouncey, OC/OG, Florida
Florida uses ZBS OL and Maurkice Pouncey would fill a need in a year. If he can start this year, that would be even better. I'm not sure this is as big of a need as others, but if Pouncey can be grabbed here, it would be smart to take him here.

2nd Round (47th): Damian Williams, WR, USC
While Williams lacks the top end speed and major upside of some prospects, he is more polished than anyone else in the draft (great hands, great routes, great open field moves, great return ability). He's more day 1 ready than any other WR prospect. Think Steve Smith (the one from USC) and not Mike Williams (the one from USC) He was a kick returner at USC too. With Welker potentially missing more than a few games this year, the Patriots should add someone who can step in an return kicks and punts.

2nd Round (53rd): Alex Carrington, DE, Arkansas State
An under-rated DE prospect because he came from a school most people never get to see. He played extremely well at the senior bowl and could be a very interesting prospect in the 34 defense. He won't be Richard Seymour, but he may be an improvement over aging Jarvis Green.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

4th Round: Donovan Warren, DB, Michigan
If Donovan Warren is still available at the Patriots 4th round pick, they can't afford to pass. They need a nickel DB. Wilhite may still struggle and Butler is going to be the #2. Terrence Wheatley is only on the team because he was a second round pick and they are hoping he turns the corner. The Patriots can not afford to not take a DB. This one may be a steal because of a bad 40 time though.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

6th Round: Jonathan Crompton, QB, Tennessee
It's not a matter of if the Patriots will take a QB, but who. With only two on the roster, they will likely look for a late rounder who can come into camp and throw some balls. Maybe even compete for a job. Jonathan Crompton is under-rated and has high end potential. His progress has been slower than others, but his recent growth shows he can get better. It's worth a late round flier.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

7th Round: Jameson Konz, ATH/ST, Kent State
I wonder if this guy will be a second round pick by the Raiders... He's 6'3" 240 lbs. He's played TE, LB, and FB. He has real athleticism. He can be at worst, a special teamer for a few years. I have a feeling he will be around as a special teams ace and maybe even develop into a TE that the Patriots are sorely missing.

7th Round: Joe Webb, QB/WR, UAB
I love to see guys with 11' broad jumps and the ability to jump 7 football bags... This kid will be insane at WR. I don't really know if he will be here or that what else to do with this pick. If he's here, he must be drafted by NE.


SOUND THE ALARMS!

Tim Tebow has been invited to New England for a private workout, according to the Sporting News:

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2010-03-17/improved-mechanics-tebow-shows-hes-quarterback

1 light or 2? (think Paul Revere)

bhyg
03-20-2010, 09:27 AM
You can get all pro's in the second round. Why would anyone be ok with Tebow at 53? He is a college QB. Not a pro. He's not fast like Vick (and I wouldn't want Vick either).These picks this year and the two first next along with the four 2's last year and the two 3's coming back from injury last year are ging to be the backbone for this decade. Don't waste a valuable pick on a "sure fire, can't miss BUST" Just my opinion. Thanks

Boston_george
03-20-2010, 11:27 AM
There have been reports that the Pats have worked out, interviewed, or have been spotted at pro days watching: (Keep in mind these are from media reports)

QB:
Tim Tebow
Tony Pike
Zac Robinson
Dan LeFevour

RB:
Jonathan Dwyer
Dexter McCluster
James Starks

WR:
Mardy Gilyard
Golden Tate
Damian Willaims
Jeremy Horne
Andre Roberts

TE:
Dennis Pitta
Aaron Hernandez

OL:
Kurtis Greggory

DL:
Ricardo Mathews
Alex Daniels
Thaddeus Gibson
Arthur Moats
Corey Peters
Al Woods

LB:
Ricky Sapp
Matt Mayberry

CB:
Nolan Carroll
Devin McCourty
LeRoy Vann

S:
Earl Thomas
Kurt Coleman

Boston_george
03-20-2010, 11:30 AM
You can get all pro's in the second round. Why would anyone be ok with Tebow at 53? He is a college QB. Not a pro. He's not fast like Vick (and I wouldn't want Vick either).These picks this year and the two first next along with the four 2's last year and the two 3's coming back from injury last year are ging to be the backbone for this decade. Don't waste a valuable pick on a "sure fire, can't miss BUST" Just my opinion. Thanks

But Tim is a better decision maker with much better accuracy than Vick ever had. Tebow may just eventually become the backbone of the team. I think it's mostly just a difference of opinion on his talent and where this team stands. I think the Patriots should think about taking a quarterback soon (in the next couple of years).

Boston_george
03-20-2010, 11:35 AM
I think James Starks is one of the most interesting targets for a Patriots as a later round pick. He was extremely productive running and catching the ball as a sophomore and junior, but was hurt with a shoulder injury for his senior year. He came out and reportedly ran in 4.4's at workouts. If his health checks out I think he's a good talent to take a chance on. Anyone have a eyewitness report?

proshoota25
03-20-2010, 12:00 PM
DL:
Ricardo Mathews
Alex Daniels
Thaddeus Gibson
Arthur Moats
Corey Peters
Al Woods

LB:
Ricky Sapp
Matt Mayberry


ugh this is sad.. lets hope the likes of kindle, hughes, graham are added to this list eventually

bhyg
03-20-2010, 02:20 PM
I respect your opinion but I beg to differ. I will never believe anything other than Tebow is a sure fire can't miss BUST. I don't think he makes quick decisions and when he's forced he's not accurate either. He's not fast enough to be a huge running threat. He's not NFL caliber.

Thanks for the heads up on Starks. I haven't seen him so I will have to go with others assessment.

I like Hoyer. I bet he will make that big yr 1-2 jump and I was impressed with him last year.

I also think that Brady will play for another seven years or more. It's too early to have his replacement. Hoyer will go the way of Cassel and we will replace Hoyer with Brady's replacement. I think that's a few years away.

Does anyone agree with any of this? I can take it! Thanks.

TNPatsFan
03-20-2010, 05:08 PM
I agree it's way too early to draft Brady's replacement. Having decent backups is important, but that's all you need right now. I hated that they spent a 3rd rounder a couple years ago on O'Connell.

As for Tim Tebow, it's not so much his mechanics that I have a problem with, it's everything else. He doesn't read defenses well before or after the snap, he doesn't make quick decisions, and his delivery is just soooo sloooooow. He's late to find his receivers if he can even find them at all and he just gets it there way too late when he does find the guy.

I have said for two years, he should just make up his mind to change positions and dedicate himself to it. With his work ethic and athleticism he could be a really good NFL fullback or tight end. If he wasn't Tim Tebow and was being honestly evaluated for his quarterback skills he'd be a 7th round pick at best. I want nothing to do with him on the Pats.

descendency
03-20-2010, 05:34 PM
As for Tim Tebow, it's not so much his mechanics that I have a problem with, it's everything else. He doesn't read defenses well before or after the snap, he doesn't make quick decisions, and his delivery is just soooo sloooooow. He's late to find his receivers if he can even find them at all and he just gets it there way too late when he does find the guy.

All of those issues are correctable with good coaching. I'm not advocating taking Tim Tebow, but if that is all that is standing in your way between you and a franchise QB, you are silly for not taking him in the second round. Two or three years from now, the Patriots might turn him over for a 1st and more. Look at what Seattle gave up for a guy who was a 3rd stringer on the Chargers and hadn't taken a snap in the NFL. He's 28 as well.

The Patriots have too few holes to not take a gamble or two.

However, I have other problems with Mr. Tebow that I think the gamble isn't worth it. I hate his spiral out of his hand. I dislike his accuracy (he's behind or above lots of WRs). The rest is coachable, but those are QB intangibles he doesn't have. It could take years to correct them. I doubt the NFL will give him years.

edit: He's not a 7th round QB. He's a 3rd or 4th round QB. Better build and arm strength than other prospects (he probably has one of the top 3 strongest arms in the draft... if he could throw the ball in a way that didn't suck), as well as high end work ethic and size.

TNPatsFan
03-20-2010, 05:45 PM
I guess we'll have to disagree on how coachable those things are. It's like he still has to learn how to play the position. Sure, he could develop in time, just like any other late round guy. But that's why you draft them late. And there's no guarantee that he will develop.

Jvig43
03-20-2010, 06:35 PM
My view on the Tebow thing, I was actually starting to warm up to the idea, as long as it wasnt our first rounder. I mean, we let the kid sit behind Brady mentoring him for three to four years, get comfortable with the offense, we could have another great Qb lined up for us. The kid is a hard ******* worker, you can tell he wants to make it in the NFL. Whether or not the effort hes obviously going to give is going to be enough, we'll see, but its not something im completely 100% against. I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks that too, well besides Realitycheck.

Longclaw
03-20-2010, 11:33 PM
If the Pats trade up in the first who could be their target?

proshoota25
03-21-2010, 12:00 PM
If the Pats trade up in the first who could be their target?

kindle/mcclain/ haden i would think if they ever did trade up. not likely however

TNPatsFan
03-21-2010, 12:11 PM
Probably the only ones I would trade up for are McClain and Kindle, maybe Spiller if he somehow fell into the mid to late teens. I'd include Morgan if I thought he could play OLB, as he is one of my fave players in this draft. I'm not a fan of Haden.

FlyingElvis
03-22-2010, 11:33 AM
I'm hoping the Pats have not bothered with the guys at the top of their board so other teams don't think they're interested.

My view on the Tebow thing, I was actually starting to warm up to the idea, as long as it wasnt our first rounder. I mean, we let the kid sit behind Brady mentoring him for three to four years, get comfortable with the offense, we could have another great Qb lined up for us. The kid is a hard ******* worker, you can tell he wants to make it in the NFL. Whether or not the effort hes obviously going to give is going to be enough, we'll see, but its not something im completely 100% against. I'm sure I'm the only one here who thinks that too, well besides Realitycheck.

I'm not totally against it, though I think that's because I've talked myself into it. This way I'll be relieved if we don't draft him and less disappointed if we do. I agree with TNPatsFan - the 2nd round is high for the amount of development time Tebow needs and how long it will be before we need him to play QB. Basically, he will likely be ready to go just in time to hit free agency. I'd rather stick with Hoyer this year since I really liked what I saw from him last year.

The big issue for me is the needs we have along the O-Line. The second round is perfect for drafting top 3 prospects at center, guard and right tackle. We could shore up the line for the next decade and replace a quickly declining Koppen & Neal immediately.

Longclaw
03-22-2010, 05:34 PM
Thoughts on Tyson Alualu? Heard that the Pats have their eyes on him.

bhyg
03-22-2010, 08:59 PM
My last word on Tebow. There are two things which are difficult to teach a QB. One is accuracy. Either you have it or you don't. You can get better but you'll never be great and ALL the greats of all time were extremely accurate. They didn't all have big arms. The other is not in making good decisions it's making them quickly. Drew could have been ne of the greats but his decision making was way to slow for the NFL and although he was incredibly tough (played with a pin sticking out of a finger on his throwing hand...as one example) and had a great arm, he was so slow to make a decision that you could defend him. I don't remember any QB who bacame an accurate passer or a quick decision maker.

Can anyone tell me someone who was able to REALLY change either?

I read that Neal was graded by the NFL as one of the best guards this past year. I've always liked him from the first time I saw him, but he is 33 now and he gets hurt too much. He still finishes off plays and I love that in an OL. In fact that is what I look for in an OL. Can anyone tell me someone who finishes his blocks on the OL (especially G because of age and C because in that same thing I read they said Koppen was one of the worst this past year...he ws good a few years ago but I don't think he played well this year)

descendency
03-22-2010, 09:09 PM
If the Pats trade up in the first who could be their target?

McClain and probably only McClain. Maybe if Suh fell to like 15th or something...

Thoughts on Tyson Alualu? Heard that the Pats have their eyes on him.

Under-sized.

Don Vito
03-22-2010, 09:12 PM
Thoughts on Tyson Alualu? Heard that the Pats have their eyes on him.

I like Alualu but I'm not sold as him as a 3-4 player. I love that he is a tenacious high motor guy with decent size (6-2.5 293) and showed he can move with a 4.93 forty which is respectable for his size. He may be a little short but nothing too major as far as height is concerned, but he only put up 225 21 times in Indy and has somewhat short arms for a projected 3-4 end.

He is a tough and hard working player who definitely could carve himself out a nice role in the NFL, but I don't know how good of a 3-4 end he could be due to his relative lack of size and strength. Wouldn't mind giving him a look in the 4th or 5th but he should be gone by then, but if we take him with one of our second rounders I'd be relatively upset. Wouldn't surprise me though.

ElectricEye
03-22-2010, 09:14 PM
He's basically what we have with Myron Pryor. He was excellent at DE in a 3-4 in college, but he doesn't have the length to play the gaps correctly in the NFL.

Don Vito
03-22-2010, 09:29 PM
He's basically what we have with Myron Pryor. He was excellent at DE in a 3-4 in college, but he doesn't have the length to play the gaps correctly in the NFL.

Exactly what I was thinking. Doesn't really bring anything more to the table than Pryor does.

Boston_george
03-23-2010, 09:00 AM
I'm almost ruling out the Pats taking a DL (Odrick) that will stick on the DL. I think they will draft a DE with the Oakland pick next year.

FlyingElvis
03-23-2010, 09:38 AM
^ DE with Oakland's pick is probably far more realistic than the WR we all seem to want.

I think Odrick will be the pick if the value is right. I'd rather we take an OLB there, whether it's Graham, Kindle, or even Hughes. Pass rush is too important to skip again and end up with a major question mark like Sapp or Misi later in round 2.

I think the top guys on the board are probably Gresham, Odrick, Kindle, and an a few Oline prospects - Pouncey, Iupati and an OT, maybe?

AntoinCD
03-23-2010, 09:59 AM
Just based on history and just a gut feeling I really think it will be Odrick, Gresham or Pouncey. If either Anthony Davis or Bruce Campbell are available they may be considered but as of now those are my three best bets

proshoota25
03-23-2010, 02:25 PM
Just based on history and just a gut feeling I really think it will be Odrick, Gresham or Pouncey. If either Anthony Davis or Bruce Campbell are available they may be considered but as of now those are my three best bets

i totally agree, along with kindle if he is available.

Matthew Jones
03-23-2010, 03:51 PM
Right now I think the pick is between Gresham, Odrick, and Kindle if those three are available. There's an outside shot they'd take Tate, Pouncey, or another linebacker though.

descendency
03-23-2010, 05:27 PM
Right now I think the pick is between Gresham, Odrick, and Kindle if those three are available. There's an outside shot they'd take Tate, Pouncey, or another linebacker though.

I don't think Gresham has even worked out with the Patriots. So until he works out with them, I can't see him being the pick.

Matthew Jones
03-23-2010, 05:55 PM
I don't think Gresham has even worked out with the Patriots. So until he works out with them, I can't see him being the pick.

That could always be a smoke-screen though. I'm kind of busy right now since I'm expecting people over soon but later I'll try and find out which Patriots have visited before they were the pick in the first round.

descendency
03-23-2010, 06:30 PM
I can't see it being a smart move to not work someone out. You workout lots of random people that you have no intention of drafting.

They might do it, but I wouldn't see it as smart.

TNPatsFan
03-23-2010, 07:04 PM
I am almost positive that Ben Watson had said he never even spoke to the Pats before they drafted him (or at least he had very little contact with them), so it seems strange but I'm sure it happens. If they feel they have all the info they need then there is not necessarily a need to work a guy out or bring him in for a visit. I hope the Pats don't take Gresham in round 1 but I would not be at all surprised if it happens.

proshoota25
03-23-2010, 11:35 PM
i hope the patriots dont take gresham.... i love love aaron hernandez and think he would be better value in the second round.

- sorry to tell you guys, but apparently the patriots worked out sapp for 6 hours, and sapp said that the coaches really liked what they saw him in. blehhhh

FlyingElvis
03-24-2010, 08:41 AM
- sorry to tell you guys, but apparently the patriots worked out sapp for 6 hours, and sapp said that the coaches really liked what they saw him in. blehhhh

He'll look great opposite Graham! :D He could fit right into my sig mock instead of Wootton.

I'm actually glad they worked him out. At least I'll feel better if he's the OLB pick in April. If they're comfortable they can turn him into a more determined player on the field I won't be so concerned with the video that makes him look soft.

Don Vito
03-24-2010, 10:25 AM
Sapp has a lot of ability, I would be intrigued to see what he can do. There are a lot of guys I'd like to see us take before him, but if we are interested in a pass rusher that excites me in itself. He is an athletic guy with decent size for 3-4 OLB, maybe he comes on if we draft him there. As long as the staff is looking at pass rushers that is enough to make me sleep at night.

FlyingElvis
03-24-2010, 10:32 AM
QFT! Even if it's not a fan favorite, an OLB is an OLB. At least the FO isn't completely ignoring the need again this year.

proshoota25
03-24-2010, 11:00 AM
your right. but, I REALLY REALLY hope we dont take him the first round

Don Vito
03-24-2010, 11:17 AM
your right. but, I REALLY REALLY hope we dont take him the first round

That would definitely be a reach from our eyes, but we've seen time and time again that if the staff likes a guy they will take him as high as they value him (Vollmer and Mankins).

Jvig43
03-24-2010, 11:17 AM
HA watch we'll probably still not end up with an OLB on day one again.

Don Vito
03-24-2010, 11:23 AM
HA watch we'll probably still not end up with an OLB on day one again.

I would cry but it would not surprise me, not one bit. I will be concerned if we don't look at a pass rusher this year based off last year, TBC looked good but we at least need one more pass rusher.

As far as ILB is concerned, Scott has Spikes carrying a third or fourth round grade now according to his post in the scouting report thread. I doubt he would be available when we pick in the fourth (and I doubt he ever ends up a Patriot), but if we trade into the third that would be a pick I would not mind seeing. We need a thumper in the middle next to Mayo, who is not a thumper either. He had to sort of fill that role last year and it was evident that his play was not the same as his rookie year. Guyton, Alexander, and McKenzie (if he is ready) are in the athletic coverage mold. I think if McKenzie gets healthy he could really have a nice role here, but I would still like a downhill inside guy for 1st and second downs at least aside from Jerod.

Edit-Here's BB's take on Tebow. His description of Timmy seems to fit everything he looks for is a player, and it seems he sees Tebow has potnetial outside QB perhaps. I can't stand Tebow personally, he could end up being a solid NFL player, I just hope we don't take him. At least as a QB.

"I think it's obvious that within the last six weeks that he's worked on his mechanics, and they've improved, which is a credit to him," Belichick said. "He's very coachable, and he works very hard. I'm sure that whatever he feels he needs to do, he'll work very hard at, whatever that is. Athletically, he tested very well at the combine, which you can see on the field."

Tebow has told teams he will play whatever position his team tells him to play.

"My sense of Tim Tebow is that if you asked him to play nose, he'd play nose," Belichick said. "I think he's that kind of kid. Whatever you ask him to do, I think he'd do."

Might be time to change up the sig.

FlyingElvis
03-24-2010, 11:38 AM
HA watch we'll probably still not end up with an OLB on day one again.
Technically, that only means we won't take a 1st round OLB now that the draft has changed. Again. ;)


Might be time to change up the sig.

I hope not. We have too many holes at positions that we can fill with studs in this draft. Tebow would just take a selection away that could be used elsewhere. A few years ago when we were sound at all positions and most picks were "luxury" picks I wouldn't mind a kid like Tebow. I just don't think we can afford to do that in a draft this loaded.

Don Vito
03-24-2010, 11:49 AM
I hope not. We have too many holes at positions that we can fill with studs in this draft. Tebow would just take a selection away that could be used elsewhere. A few years ago when we were sound at all positions and most picks were "luxury" picks I wouldn't mind a kid like Tebow. I just don't think we can afford to do that in a draft this loaded.

You are absolutely correct, but I just hope the staff thinks this way too. We clearly need help at DE, LB, and OL immediately; and those positions are at a premium in this draft and we have a ton of picks. Now we just need to a)use them and b) use them to fill our biggest holes. In BB we trust, but we can't afford any luxury picks early this year. We have clear cut needs.

bhyg
03-25-2010, 07:25 PM
BB has had a history of drafting guys from big schools who have done well in all star games. I love Graham and I bet if they trade up it would only be a few spots to get ahead of some other team who would take him if we don't jump over 'em.

proshoota25
03-25-2010, 10:37 PM
ROP told me the Pats worked out Jerry Hughes. Can't find an article however...

Don Vito
03-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Interesting, I wouldn't mind Hughes I just figured we wouldn't take him because the our linebackers were always bigger but we are starting to go with smaller guys at the position. He can get to the QB so I'm for it, I just want a pass rusher or two.

AntoinCD
03-26-2010, 03:21 AM
I've actually been thinking about OLB prospects at the minute. I'm starting to think that the choice will be Sapp, Kindle, Griffen or Dunlap. At the minute there are a lot of nickel rushers like TBC but only really Burgess who can properly set the edge(and despite what BB said I don't think he played well last year). Hughes has not shown in his career he can be a very good run defender and Graham does lack ideal size. Of the four named I would prefer Kindle or Griffen as I don't think Sapp can be very good against the run and Dunlap worries me. As BB said a few years ago you don't take a LBer high unless he can be a three down guy

Razor
03-26-2010, 05:29 AM
I don't like Griffin as an OLB in the 3-4. Imo he looked very stiff in the LB drills at the Combine, that was kind of a turn off to me. And actually, I wouldn't be all that upset if we took Dunlap. I mean, he is athletic and can rush the passer. The only real knock on him is consistency, and that is something the great motivator, Bill Belichick, can do something about. If he works out, he'll a LT type of player. But that's i big if...

Matthew Jones
03-26-2010, 05:37 AM
ROP told me the Pats worked out Jerry Hughes. Can't find an article however...

Source is the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/03/hughes_to_visit.html

I'm glad they're looking at all the different pass rushers available and not just ones that fall into some arbitrary height and weight limit. I think the value on getting someone like Sapp in the second might be better than Hughes in the first but who knows. I'd be happy with any new pass rushers aside from Misi (who would signal that we ignored the position too long) or someone like Dunlap (who might be a good player in the NFL but who has too many question marks.)

Longclaw
03-26-2010, 07:58 AM
Dunlap would be nice in the first imo. Though I believe he didn't participate in any LB drills during the combine. So that makes me worry. Any one know from game footage how he looks moving in space?

Don Vito
03-26-2010, 10:11 AM
Source is the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/03/hughes_to_visit.html

I'm glad they're looking at all the different pass rushers available and not just ones that fall into some arbitrary height and weight limit. I think the value on getting someone like Sapp in the second might be better than Hughes in the first but who knows. I'd be happy with any new pass rushers aside from Misi (who would signal that we ignored the position too long) or someone like Dunlap (who might be a good player in the NFL but who has too many question marks.)

Agreed. All of the top guys I really do like, there was some I just couldn't see us drafting (like Hughes). I would love any of that top tier of guys like you said before Misi because the pass rush needs to be addressed before that, and Dunlap is a guy I just could never see us drafting for a variety of reasons. He has character problems but the main thing is he really doesn't fit our defense.

FlyingElvis
03-26-2010, 01:24 PM
Source is the Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/03/hughes_to_visit.html

I'm glad they're looking at all the different pass rushers available and not just ones that fall into some arbitrary height and weight limit. I think the value on getting someone like Sapp in the second might be better than Hughes in the first but who knows. I'd be happy with any new pass rushers aside from Misi (who would signal that we ignored the position too long) or someone like Dunlap (who might be a good player in the NFL but who has too many question marks.)

This. I like Misi and Dunlap but our OLB position is in terrible shape, especially if the relationship with Adlius Thomas is irreparable.

proshoota25
03-26-2010, 05:44 PM
jw if u guys see any similarities between dunlap and adalius.....

Matthew Jones
03-26-2010, 07:21 PM
jw if u guys see any similarities between dunlap and adalius.....

Not at all to be honest. What made you think of that comparison? Not saying I'm completely ruling it out, I just don't really see it.

proshoota25
03-26-2010, 07:26 PM
idk... just big long athletic guys. to be honest i think its hard to make a comparison because we havent seen dunlap in space. ive seen a lot of chatter of dunlap playing OLB

TNPatsFan
03-26-2010, 11:09 PM
I started participating in a live mock with 31 other "GM's" representing every team. Interesting start so far:

1 St. Louis Rams Sam Bradford, QB Oklahoma
2 Detroit Lions Russell Okung, OT Oklahoma State
3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gerald McCoy DT Oklahoma
4 Cleveland Browns (from Wash) Ndamukong Suh, DT Nebraska
5 Miami Dolphins from Kansas City Eric Berry S Tennessee
6 Seattle Seahawks Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida
7 Washington (from Cleveland) Jimmy Clausen QB Notre Dame
8 Oakland Raiders Rolando McClain ILB Alabama
9 Buffalo Bills Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa
10 Jacksonville Jaguars Joe Haden CB Florida
11 Denver Broncos(from Chicago) Dan Williams DT Tennessee
12 Kansas City from Miami Brandon Graham DE Michigan
13 San Francisco 49ers Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
14 Seattle Seahawks(from Denver) Taylor Mays S USC
15 New York Giants Sean Weatherspoon LB Missouri
16 Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech
17 San Francisco 49ers(from Carolina) C. J. Spiller RB Clemson
18 Pittsburgh Steelers
19 Washington Redskins (from Atlanta Falcons)
20 Houston Texans
21 Cincinnati Bengals
22 New England Patriots



Only four more picks till I'm up and lots of good players still on the board. I had an opportunity to trade up to 15 with the Giants and all I would have to give up was our middle second plus they would give us back a fifth. I was surprised Derrick Morgan lasted so long and I almost went up to get him. I really like him a lot as a player, but I just can't convince myself that he fits as an OLB, so I didn't make the trade.

Any suggestions who to target with the 22 pick? Should I trade down maybe?

Matthew Jones
03-27-2010, 07:37 AM
I'd say there are a lot of good pass rushers still available at that point, but if someone like Kindle is left he'd be hard to pass up. Other than that, I might take Odrick because there are no other 3-4 defensive ends. It's all about value (Kindle) vs. need (Odrick) if you ask me. I wouldn't take Gresham because this is a deep TE class.

proshoota25
03-27-2010, 12:29 PM
I started participating in a live mock with 31 other "GM's" representing every team. Interesting start so far:

1 St. Louis Rams Sam Bradford, QB Oklahoma
2 Detroit Lions Russell Okung, OT Oklahoma State
3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gerald McCoy DT Oklahoma
4 Cleveland Browns (from Wash) Ndamukong Suh, DT Nebraska
5 Miami Dolphins from Kansas City Eric Berry S Tennessee
6 Seattle Seahawks Jason Pierre-Paul DE South Florida
7 Washington (from Cleveland) Jimmy Clausen QB Notre Dame
8 Oakland Raiders Rolando McClain ILB Alabama
9 Buffalo Bills Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa
10 Jacksonville Jaguars Joe Haden CB Florida
11 Denver Broncos(from Chicago) Dan Williams DT Tennessee
12 Kansas City from Miami Brandon Graham DE Michigan
13 San Francisco 49ers Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
14 Seattle Seahawks(from Denver) Taylor Mays S USC
15 New York Giants Sean Weatherspoon LB Missouri
16 Tennessee Titans Derrick Morgan DE Georgia Tech
17 San Francisco 49ers(from Carolina) C. J. Spiller RB Clemson
18 Pittsburgh Steelers
19 Washington Redskins (from Atlanta Falcons)
20 Houston Texans
21 Cincinnati Bengals
22 New England Patriots



Only four more picks till I'm up and lots of good players still on the board. I had an opportunity to trade up to 15 with the Giants and all I would have to give up was our middle second plus they would give us back a fifth. I was surprised Derrick Morgan lasted so long and I almost went up to get him. I really like him a lot as a player, but I just can't convince myself that he fits as an OLB, so I didn't make the trade.

Any suggestions who to target with the 22 pick? Should I trade down maybe?

i would take kindle in a heartbeat if he fell to you

Don Vito
03-27-2010, 02:14 PM
Depending on availability I'd say...

1. Kindle
2. Graham
3. Pouncey
4. Odrick

TNPatsFan
03-28-2010, 12:53 AM
Yep, I took Kindle. He seems to be the most popular pick among us Pats fans. I'll post the rest of my picks after the mock is finished, for your amusement.

Don Vito
03-28-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm liking the idea of Pouncey in the first more and more if we don't take a pass rusher, ROP had a nice post in the thread about Pouncey in the draft forum. It may be because I'm almost anticipating us not taking a pass rusher in the first so Pouncey would probably be the next best option, I'm sort of warming up to the thought of Odrick too. Front 7 or OL, that is all I want early with maybe a TE or another weapon on offense.

FlyingElvis
03-29-2010, 12:23 PM
The 53rd pick was posted about a half hour ago in the current forum mock. Since we have forever before picking again I figured I'd go ahead and post how it went down.

Pre-draft we made two trades:

Adalius Thomas to Cleveland for Rober Royal (TE) and Cleveland's 5th - #137 overall.
Not the greatest value but Thomas sounds like he's ready to shoot his way out of town. He's also old, coming off injury, and carries a huge salary burden. The only other offer came a day too late but was also a 5th round pick which would have been even lower (Vikings) so at least we shipped him to a team that isn't likely to contend.

Tony Scheffler for our 4th and 7th.
This one was a no-brainer. Big win. I'm actually surprised that MelKiper's write up on the top moves in day one didn't include it. lol

So we went into the draft with Crumpler & Royal as blocking / depth TEs and Scheff as our #1 guy. This freed up the draft pick that was clearly going to be used on TE.

@ 22 - Sergio Kindle
Another no-brainer in this mock. Graham was gone and Hughes went one pick prior to Tennessee, which was a bit of a surprise. Some interesting picks dropped him to us so we're sending fruit baskets to those teams. ;)

@ 44 - Rodger Saffold
He was BPA when the other 3 guys ranked above him were selected just before our pick. The short list included McCourty b/c of his overall value there, Benn, Best and Saffold b/c he should be versatile enough to play OG & OT and very well could be our RT of the future. Worst case scenario, he's our stud RG of the future. ROP & I laughed when, immediately after we selected him, several teams were pissed b/c they thought they could get him over the next few picks.

@ 47 - Corey Wootton
5 tech is in short supply. Odrick went to the Cowboys @ 27 and the Jets and Ravens mentioned having him as a target so we got a glimpse of how many teams really had 5-tech DE as a priority. With Williams and Gilyard on the board we passed on WR b/c DE is a much bigger concern right now. Passing on Damian Williams was very tough, though.

@ 53 - Damian Williams
Say What?? lol. We passed and still managed to snag the WR we wanted and considered at 47. Trade talks were initiated but were stymied by the early hour (11am EST lol) and an unreachable Co-GM for the one team that was interested. All in all it was best, as we knew the Chiefs would have selected Williams had we traded below them.

Razor
03-29-2010, 03:35 PM
Very good Patriots draft so far. Good job! :)

While I'm currently off the Wootton bandwagon, it's good value and if all else fails he'll be a stud nickel/4-3 pass rusher. I'm starting to really like Montario Hardesty for the Patriots in the second round (or possibly trade down from #53 and pick him). He's not a home run threat, but he hits the holes very hard, is a load to bring down and has very good vision. He is especially good at gaining yards on screen passes. I haven't noticed him much when it comes to pass blocking, which to me is a good thing. Scott wrote "capable blocker" which means that he is a good all round RB. If we can get him our running game will be much better next year. I see a bit of Corey Dillon in him. What do you guys think?

FlyingElvis
03-29-2010, 03:38 PM
I really like Hardesty and Tate after their stong combine workouts. Neither will be a 2nd round pick, though. Since we never actually go through a draft without trading down, however, we could see it happen again.

And thanks. Wootton is a bit risky, that's for sure. At 6'6 he's got the frame to add weight, which really was part of the decision.

Razor
03-29-2010, 05:51 PM
And thanks. Wootton is a bit risky, that's for sure. At 6'6 he's got the frame to add weight, which really was part of the decision.

Exactly. I love his size, and my belief is, that size is very important for a 3-4 DE. Just look at how Seymour used his long arms to shed blocks and make plays. If he's willing to bulk up to around 300 lbs I could see him working out as DE for us. Otherwise, he can rush the passer on third downs like I said in my last post.

descendency
03-29-2010, 09:27 PM
Trading the 44th pick (and maybe a bit more) for Jared Gaither sounds like a smart idea right now and it seems the Ravens don't want to keep him because they will have to pay him soon (he's on an RFA tender).

I think we should trade for him, sign him, and cut Light to be perfectly honest. It's a proven player at a position that means something for a draft pick that isn't really all that high.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2010, 08:44 AM
He'll cost a fortune next year so I don't see that happening. Vollmer has shown he can handle the LT spot - more than handle it, really. So we can get a RT that won't cost a fortune and have a solid set of tackles at a very friendly cost.

A kid like Calloway or Tony Washington could be a good option as RT with development time over the 2010 season. Start Light and Vollmer and work on a 3rd, 4th or even 5th round pick since Washington could fall a long way for sexin' up his sister.

Or just take Saffold in the second somewhere. ;)

BradysKnee
03-30-2010, 09:11 AM
Trading the 44th pick (and maybe a bit more) for Jared Gaither sounds like a smart idea right now and it seems the Ravens don't want to keep him because they will have to pay him soon (he's on an RFA tender).

I think we should trade for him, sign him, and cut Light to be perfectly honest. It's a proven player at a position that means something for a draft pick that isn't really all that high.

Yeah definitely. Light has a pretty significant cap hit this year, and cutting him and signing Gaither likely only will bring it up a few mil.

I'd like to see Kaczur to guard, he's too damn slow to take on fast edge rushers. Powerful dude, but not a good pass blocking tackle.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2010, 09:37 AM
I don't think we'll see Nick at RT this year. He'll either be RG or depth. There's no way he holds Vollmer off at this point in his career. If Rich Ohrnberger can step in at RG that would be fantastic for us. We could then focus on a RTotf and C.

I'm really starting to like the idea of trading down to replenish some of the picks we squandered last year on Smith and Burgess. If we could trade 44 to a team like Dallas - cuz we know Jerry loves to deal - we could get their 2nd and 3rd plus maybe a sixth based on the value chart. We could then target a guy like Walton or Tennant at C in round 3 and still have 3 2nds to work with plus our own 4th.

We would also have a truck load of 6th and 7th round picks to use as ammo to move up.

bhyg
03-30-2010, 03:37 PM
You can't trade comp picks. So we have one sixth and two sevenths that we could trade. There is no cap this year so that is a non issue. They won't just cut Light even if they went after Gaither, which I doubt. I don't like Safford. I like OL who are tough not finesse. We don't use zone blocking. That experiment didn't work so they scrapped it.

I think they will trade one of their second round picks along with their first to move up to draft Graham. BB likes big school and guys that have excelled in all star games. Graham had a lot of production and comes to play. I think they will target him and move to get him. They can get up to 12-13 with a 2 and our 1.

Any thoughts?

RealityCheck
03-30-2010, 03:44 PM
Ducasse > Saffold.

He'd be perfect with our first 2nd.

What do you guys think of Veldheer?

FlyingElvis
03-30-2010, 03:47 PM
If we received a 6th like I mentioned in that Dallas hypothetical we would have two 6ths and two 7th to use in trade combos. That's all I meant by the truckload of ammo.

I would love Graham to be the pick but doubt BB moves up for him. I'd be more than happy to see that happen, though. More likely it's a sit and wait and draft Graham / Kindle / Odrick / Gresham with Hughes as a possibility. Either way, I doubt we need to move up to the 12 range to get Graham. I like him enough to take him there but the reality is 16 as his max to Tennessee. But pretty much every team from 16-29 could see him as a solid pick.

Razor
03-30-2010, 03:50 PM
I like Veldheer, I'd like to see him as a Patriot. But I disagree about your "Ducasse > Saffold" statement - at least when it comes to the Patriots. Ducasse doesn't fit the type og O-lineman NE usually draft or sign. At 330 lbs I doubt he's mobile enough to play in BBs part ZBS part power OL. Saffold would be nice in the second, but I'm not a fan of Calloway as a RT. Nick Kaczur v2. As OG I think he could be a good player though.

FlyingElvis
03-30-2010, 03:59 PM
Nick Kaczur v2 would be fine with me. Don't forget: Nick was very good in his prime for us. He's just too far past that now. Calloway will be a mid round pick anywhere from 3rd - 5th round which means he's an excellent value if he becomes a starting quality RT for even 5 or 6 seasons.

Razor
03-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Yeah, but when Kaczur was in his prime there weren't as many speed rushers in the league as there are now. Other teams are lining their speed rushers up at LDE to take advantage of heavy footed RTs, and Calloway won't be able to keep them off Brady. What I want is basically a LT plating RT. It's a passing league, and we have one of the best QBs of all time. If we give him time to make plays, he'll take us to the promised land - again.

Matthew Jones
03-30-2010, 07:45 PM
I would really like Saffold or Ducasse in the second round, I think they'd be really nice picks. Either one has some versatility so you could play them at either RG or RT depending on who needs to be replaced first, Neal or Kaczur. Personally I think Kaczur could be a pretty good RG (where his trouble against speed rushers might be minimized), taking over for Neal once he retires, while someone else mans the RT position (with Vollmer sliding over to LT, replacing Light.) It's a little bit wishful, but lately I've been leaning towards a draft something like this:

1. DE Jared Odrick, Penn St.
2. OT Vladimir Ducasse, Massachusetts
2. CB Devin McCourty, Rutgers
2. LB Ricky Sapp, Clemson

Don Vito
03-30-2010, 08:57 PM
That seems pretty realistic, I just hope we don't take a corner in the first two rounds since we have bigger needs but I could see it happening. I like that draft a lot but I would prefer at TE/WR/RB instead of McCourty personally.

Matthew Jones
03-30-2010, 09:09 PM
That seems pretty realistic, I just hope we don't take a corner in the first two rounds since we have bigger needs but I could see it happening. I like that draft a lot but I would prefer at TE/WR/RB instead of McCourty personally.

The reason I have McCourty there is due to the way the league is really oriented around the pass, and because cornerback is a position of relatively little depth on our roster. Leigh Bodden and Darius Butler are going to probably be the starters next year but after that there's not much to get excited about. I think I speak for all Patriots fans when I say that I want to see Jonathan Wilhite on the field as little as possible this year. He was brutalized repeatedly last year and was probably one of the worst starting cornerbacks in the league. He gave a good effort but he's just not good enough to be on the field that often. Shawn Springs played well in limited time but he's in the doghouse (or so it seems), and I don't know what we have in Wheatley (probably not a whole lot.)

Most teams have at least three legitimate receiving options nowadays, and so it just doesn't cut it to only have two cover guys. Nickel cornerbacks are getting much more valuable now that there are guys like Welker in the slot who can really wreak havoc on a defense if you don't have a top #3 corner. I don't know if McCourty will ever be a stud but I think he could do a very nice job in the slot. On top of that, he's a nice value at that point, a relatively safe pick, and even on the off chance that he doesn't turn out to be a great slot corner, he's still a nice return man, which is something we didn't really have last year after trading Ellis Hobbs. Rotating McCourty and Tate at kick returner would be a colossal upgrade over Slater.

At wide receiver, I think some of the needs there are kind of exaggerated. I think they'll be able to hang in there without Welker (I'm expecting Edelman to be able to pick up some of the sight-read routes Welker was able to run this offseason), and New England has always been able to make it work without having top wide receivers. Maybe Brandon Tate can make some kind of impact too. I'd be down to taking Gilyard or Damian Williams or something but I don't think it's necessary.

Running back is a position of depth and the Patriots have also been able to win without a lot of great guys there, so unless someone like Ryan Mathews is available at #44 I don't think they'll take a running back early. They're going to have too many guys at that position if they draft someone high. I was talking with FlyingElvis about this the other day, but Maroney could still be a good player if he gets out of Belichick's doghouse. That said, if they were able to trade him for a good value, I could maybe see that too and then they draft someone like a Jahvid Best in the second. The Patriots might be okay if they just draft a strong blocker at fullback somewhere to help them pick up tough yards.

Tight end is one of the team's bigger needs but at the same time I think they have a lot of chances to get someone there. Ideally for me they'd pick up one of the guys like Anthony McCoy in the fourth round, who is a strong blocker with nice size and who was also pretty productive as a receiver at USC (over 20 YPC.) If I projected trades, I could see them moving one of their second round picks for one of the guys on the market. I know a lot of people are mentioning Olsen but I think someone like Owen Daniels would also be really good. Because Floyd Reese is an adviser to Belichick I could also see them going for one of Reese's old guys in Bo Scaife, who I think could be moved.

Don Vito
03-30-2010, 09:17 PM
I agree with you in that we do have some unproven corners, but we have more youth and talent there than we have had in a while. I could see us taking a corner early but Bodden is our #1 and Butler/Wilhite/Wheatley/Springs will all vie for the next spots, and hopefully at least one of them steps up. I agree that corners are more important now but we have invested a lot into our secondary lately and I would like to see us maybe focus on our other needs early.

I know we have some RB's, but when I say maybe take a back I mean a guy in the mold of Faulk IF a guy of value fell (Best or Spiller, maybe McKnight). I would lake a TE or WR more, or maybe trade for a guy with some more experience like Olsen or Daniels.

I know I may sound like a bit of a broken record, but I really want to see us work on our front 7 and OL this year. We could use another weapon or two on offense and maybe another corner, but I think our clear cut biggest weaknesses are spread throughout the front 7 and then the OL and with a bunch of picks early this year it would be the perfect time to address them.

I think 3 of our first 4 picks go to front 7 and OL; with one other being a wild card like corner, WR, TE, or RB.

Jvig43
03-31-2010, 12:26 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/BostonNew-England-Patriots/post/_/id/4676695/schefter-tebow-visits-with-patriots

Apparently the BB worked Tebow out and held some discussions with him. Smoke and mirrors?

descendency
03-31-2010, 12:36 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/BostonNew-England-Patriots/post/_/id/4676695/schefter-tebow-visits-with-patriots

Apparently the BB worked Tebow out and held some discussions with him. Smoke and mirrors?

Colin Cowherd correctly pegged the situation today when he said "Tebow is everyone's favorite dinner date." This is just scouting for whoever takes him. He's a QB so if a team thinks he can play it, they'll pick him up. The Patriots just want to know what he is capable of.

nepg
03-31-2010, 07:46 AM
Ducasse > Saffold.

He'd be perfect with our first 2nd.

What do you guys think of Veldheer?
I want Veldheer with one of the 2nd's.

Morton
03-31-2010, 10:34 AM
Tebow is a winner.

Belichick likes winners.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats draft Tebow in the 2nd round and sit him behind Brady for 2-3 years so he can learn from the best, and then install him as their franchise quarterback of the future.

FlyingElvis
03-31-2010, 10:39 AM
As long as it isn't in the first round we should be fine. Shanahan will take him in round 2 before we ever get a chance to spend a pick on him. :D

Razor
03-31-2010, 11:14 AM
Tebow is a winner.

Belichick likes winners.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats draft Tebow in the 2nd round and sit him behind Brady for 2-3 years so he can learn from the best, and then install him as their franchise quarterback of the future.

I hope not, I ******* hate Tebow. I will not spend one cent on the Patriots franchise if Tebow is a Patriot, plain and simple. Just my way of showing how disgusted I am by his personality/beliefs. And why would we pick Tebow? He has no future as a NFL QB and we can't afford the luxury of picking him and waiting for him to turn into a starter at some other position. Wouldn't it be great if he didn't get drafted? I would love that...

Jvig43
03-31-2010, 11:38 AM
I'm actually thinking some team is going to take Tebow much earlier then alot of people are saying. He has a good work ethic, and of course is a media darling. I'd laugh my ass off if Oakland took him.

Jvig43
03-31-2010, 01:12 PM
Apparently Dez Bryant had a pretty sub par workout for scouts. Think theres any chance of him dropping to us?

descendency
03-31-2010, 02:09 PM
Apparently Dez Bryant had a pretty sub par workout for scouts. Think theres any chance of him dropping to us?

Even if he's available, I think Belichick would pass. I don't think he's the kind of guy the Patriots want.

Jared Odrick seems to be their #1 target right now. There are all kinds of little hints about him being their top prospect from local Boston beat writers. (the best sources are local journalist, always)

FlyingElvis
03-31-2010, 02:45 PM
I could see Bryant being the pick at 22 but doubt he's there. I'm not sure BB would take him over Odrick or Kindle / Graham, though.

FlyingElvis
03-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Finally got to our last pick in the forum mock and Ed Dickson was still available so we grabbed him. The end result was:

Lost:
Adalius Thomas LB

Added:
Tony Scheffler TE
Robert Royal TE

Drafted:
Sergio Kindle LB
Rodger Saffold OL
Corey Wootton DE
Damian Williams WR
Ed Dickson TE

Bigburt63
03-31-2010, 07:42 PM
I could see Bryant being the pick at 22 but doubt he's there. I'm not sure BB would take him over Odrick or Kindle / Graham, though.

I don't like Bryant. Listening and reading interviews of him, I just don't like him for the Patriots.

Matthew Jones
03-31-2010, 07:50 PM
I don't like Bryant. Listening and reading interviews of him, I just don't like him for the Patriots.

Agreed, I don't think he'd be the pick at #22 if he were on the board. A lot of beat writers are mentioning Demariyus Thomas as a possibility but I'm really hoping they don't take him either. Right now I'm hoping they'll choose between Gresham, Pouncey, Odrick, Graham, and Kindle (as far as people who have a realistic shot of falling.) I'd prefer to go defense though.

Don Vito
03-31-2010, 07:52 PM
We could take a receiver in the second but it shouldn't happen in the first. Like ROP said it should be defense or OL round 1 and the focus should be there in the second too.

TNPatsFan
04-01-2010, 07:38 AM
I hope not, I ******* hate Tebow. I will not spend one cent on the Patriots franchise if Tebow is a Patriot, plain and simple. Just my way of showing how disgusted I am by his personality/beliefs. And why would we pick Tebow? He has no future as a NFL QB and we can't afford the luxury of picking him and waiting for him to turn into a starter at some other position. Wouldn't it be great if he didn't get drafted? I would love that...

You hate Tebow for his beliefs? Sorry Razor but that's a pretty bigoted statement. There are a lot of Christians on the Patriots. Do you hate them too?

Don't get me wrong. I hate Tebow too but it's not for his beliefs. I hate the way he plays so humble but on the field he's barking in opponents faces and even at opposing fans. He is smug and arrogant. And getting back to his faith, painting scriptures on your eyeblack is not doing anything except making a spectacle of yourself.

As a QB I think he completely sucks. I have said before, if you watch the Senior Bowl practices and game and change his number and his helmet and disguise his face so nobody knew it was Tebow, you say the guy would be lucky to be drafted. He was absolutely horrible in every aspect of his game.

He's just simply not worth a first or second round pick, and he's only worth a 3rd if you're planning on using him as a fullback or tight end. I will also be disgusted if the Pats draft him when they have so many other needs.

Something's strange about all this to me. BB never publicly gushes over a player before the draft like this. He may very well be trying to get someone to jump up and draft him earlier than he deserves, leaving more good players on the board when the Pats get to their second round picks.

bhyg
04-01-2010, 08:41 AM
I'd like to take a poll.

I absolutely love Graham. I think he is a future all-pro...at a position that we obviously need.

Do people agree with me? Those who don't...why?

I think BB will go get him. Our first and one second could get up to 12-13 if need be. I think he uses one of our seconds as a chip to target the player he wants. Does anyone else think this will happen?

BradysKnee
04-01-2010, 08:55 AM
I'd like to take a poll.

I absolutely love Graham. I think he is a future all-pro...at a position that we obviously need.

Do people agree with me? Those who don't...why?

I think BB will go get him. Our first and one second could get up to 12-13 if need be. I think he uses one of our seconds as a chip to target the player he wants. Does anyone else think this will happen?

I love Brandon Graham and I'd be happy if the Pats took him. I just don't see him being there at 22. Even if he is, I'm not sure BB takes him. I think Dunlap or Sapp will be a 2nd pick for us, they are the big fast type he covets.

I am becoming more and more convinced we trade down a few spots and grab Odrick.

bhyg
04-01-2010, 09:05 AM
I am in West Africa. My brothers get to use my season tickets which I've had since the first game of Schaefer Stadium almost 40 years ago. I run a charitable disaster relief and development organization as well as a security company in West Africa. I don't have internet as often as I'd like so I can't look or post as often as I want. Can someone tell me how I can complain about continually having my posts deleted. I never write anything abusive or attack anyone's opinion. That is what these thread are for, to get a different perspective etc. Thanks and sorry for posting this here but I don't know how to use this website correctly.

Boston_george
04-01-2010, 09:42 AM
I'd like to take a poll.

I absolutely love Graham. I think he is a future all-pro...at a position that we obviously need.

Do people agree with me? Those who don't...why?

I think BB will go get him. Our first and one second could get up to 12-13 if need be. I think he uses one of our seconds as a chip to target the player he wants. Does anyone else think this will happen?

The only reason I don't fall in love with Graham is that he's never really had to drop back into coverage. I'm not sure he's athletic or fast enough for coverage. Now if the Pats change back into a 4-3 I would like it. I think he's best suited to line up at DE in a 4-3. Just my opinion, I'm no scout.

FlyingElvis
04-01-2010, 09:51 AM
I'd like to take a poll.

I absolutely love Graham. I think he is a future all-pro...at a position that we obviously need.

Do people agree with me? Those who don't...why?

I think BB will go get him. Our first and one second could get up to 12-13 if need be. I think he uses one of our seconds as a chip to target the player he wants. Does anyone else think this will happen?

Completely agree that he's a future all pro. I think BB will target him b/c of his versatility and production. On top of that, he showed at the senior bowl that he could dominate top competition yet again.

There are a few teams that worry me that high (SF, especially) but I really don't think we need to move up that much to get Graham. I also don't think BB will do that. I would be happy with it, to be honest, but doubt it happens that way.


As for deleted posts . . . PM an administrator or moderator and ask about it. Maybe check the rules section first to be sure you're not breaking one - like ripping on Mel Kiper or some silly thing like that. I will say that most mods/admins do not delete posts for no reason.

Razor
04-01-2010, 11:23 AM
You hate Tebow for his beliefs? Sorry Razor but that's a pretty bigoted statement. There are a lot of Christians on the Patriots. Do you hate them too?

Of course not.

I'm an atheist. When a guy like Tebow acts the way he does (anti-abortion ads, constantly referring to the bible when talking - in short: being a fanatic about his religion) I just go nuts and hate the guy. I don't care whether it's christianity, islam, hinduism... Any religion. If you're a fanatic, you're on my ****list. I don't mind when people are religious, as long as they keep it to them selves. I don't like the way Tebow does it, so that's why I made such a harsh statement. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but that's just where I stand on this matter. And that's the reason why I don't want BB to draft him. And I don't think he will. All this business with going out to dinner with Tebow and talking him up in the media is to me a sign that BB is talking him up so that other teams take him, not because he has any interest in him.

Don Vito
04-01-2010, 03:24 PM
Let's keep the religion talk out of this, if you want to hate Tebow you can find plenty of other ways to do so.

bhyg
04-01-2010, 07:42 PM
I talk PATS. I don't rip Mel Kiper or anyone else. I think it's because I haven't been here for a year. Oh well. Eventually they put it up but it's frustrating during my day.

Back to what's important. I had mentioned moving as high as 12-13. I mentioned that because one of our seconds and our first would equate to that high. Maybe we can go to 15-16 and get a bit more creative.

One reason I like Graham so much is that when you see someone who you know is going to be real good you target him. I don't want to lose him. Atl, SF and Tenn worry me...but anyone would like to have someone that good.

When it's also a position of need I want to jump all over it. I think he would solidify our D in a big way like no one else in the draft and for some reason I just feel BB will use a "chip" not get more of them. This is such a good draft I doubt that BB will do much moving to next year especially since we have 2 number 1's. I just have a feeling he will be moving up more this year and targeting people. I think he's good at that.

On another topic I will bet my bottom dollar we don't take a TE in round 1. The TE position has changed dramatically since we got Moss and Welker. Now it's just a glorified blocker and you can use a third tackle to do that...and we have a lot lately. If the TE class wasn't so stocked and we didn't have 3 2's I would extend that prediction to round 2 as well.

A lot of people say that it is a position of need but I really don't think so. They could say FB is a position of need because we don't have any, but it's because we rarely use the position.

I wouldn't be suprised if we took Gerhart or Best in round two or Spiller if he fell to 22 but I don't know about anyone else in the first two rounds. I'd like Gerhart more than Best because when Faulk retires Maroney can step into that role and in the meantime we can use Gerhart and Maroney to shoulder that running load. Any thoughts on this line of thinking?

High picks should focus on OLB/DE and the OL and WR and possibly one of those two runners. I'd be more suprised to see us take a S but a CB might be something we might draft high. What say you about this? Thanks. (and we will most definately not draft Tebow!)

proshoota25
04-01-2010, 10:03 PM
no way does maroney fill faulks role. they arent even similar whatsoever. for me personally, if we did trade up, id like to see it for kindle. my personal preference

Matthew Jones
04-01-2010, 10:15 PM
no way does maroney fill faulks role. they arent even similar whatsoever. for me personally, if we did trade up, id like to see it for kindle. my personal preference

I'd trade up for Rolando McClain if he somehow was available at like #15 overall. He's basically a perfect fit in New England.

descendency
04-01-2010, 10:36 PM
I'd love to take both Graham and Odrick (even if one has to be traded up for).

I'd use my last 2nd round pick on Montario Hardesty who I think has been ignored quite a bit. He's an exceptional runner who's only real knock is that he doesn't have game breaker speed. Behind the Patroits OL, I think he could do some serious damage.

My fourth round target would be either an OL or a TE/WR. Then I'd start taking players that are "risky" like Jameson Konz (TE/ST) and Joe Webb (WR).

I don't think the Patriots need CBs. I think they just need time to develop. If they Patriots don't get pass rushers, the DBs may never look very good.

AntoinCD
04-02-2010, 07:10 AM
Recently reading a few articles I kinda get the feeling someone BB will
want will fall further than expected and he will go and get him. Somewhere in the 13-19 range I see him trying to get someone like Spiller, McClain, Bryant or JPP etc. If not it will probably be Pouncey, Odrick, Kindle, Dunlap or Griffen.

Although in saying that it could be completely out of leftfield and be someone you'd never expect. Ah I love the draft lol

BradysKnee
04-02-2010, 08:13 AM
I could see him dealing Oaklands 1st to move up to a good spot if someone he really liked was there.

proshoota25
04-02-2010, 09:33 AM
I could see him dealing Oaklands 1st to move up to a good spot if someone he really liked was there.

if they traded any first round picks, which i highly doubt, it would be their own first round pick next year, not oaklands.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2010, 10:10 AM
I'd love to take both Graham and Odrick (even if one has to be traded up for).

I'd use my last 2nd round pick on Montario Hardesty who I think has been ignored quite a bit. He's an exceptional runner who's only real knock is that he doesn't have game breaker speed. Behind the Patroits OL, I think he could do some serious damage.

My fourth round target would be either an OL or a TE/WR. Then I'd start taking players that are "risky" like Jameson Konz (TE/ST) and Joe Webb (WR).

I don't think the Patriots need CBs. I think they just need time to develop. If they Patriots don't get pass rushers, the DBs may never look very good.

I was thinking something very similar recently. We have the ammo and I would be fine with trading up to land Odrick and Graham/Kindle. One of the OLBs will fall to us, it's just a question of who - Graham, Kindle, Griffin or Hughes as a consolation prize.

Trading up to get Odrick would be tough, though. We would essentially have to trade with a team that likely wants him in the 22-29 range filled with 3-4 teams.

I think I would prefer to just trade down (like my Cowboys hypothetical) to add a later 2nd and 3rd. Then we could get Hardesty and a center like Walton.

Something like - Graham / Saffold / Wootton / Hardesty / Walton / Dickson

TNPatsFan
04-02-2010, 10:14 AM
I'd like to take a poll.

I absolutely love Graham. I think he is a future all-pro...at a position that we obviously need.

Do people agree with me? Those who don't...why?

I think BB will go get him. Our first and one second could get up to 12-13 if need be. I think he uses one of our seconds as a chip to target the player he wants. Does anyone else think this will happen?


I love Graham as a player, but like others have said I have major concerns whether or not he can play linebacker. He did play there in high school so maybe he can make that adjustment. His short stature makes me wonder that the Pats would take him anyway. But they have talked about going outside of that height-weight requirement. I would still be happy if they got him. I've been saying since last year they shouldn't worry so much about fitting a guy into a position. Just get a guy that can play and find a way to use him.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2010, 10:24 AM
Even if he's not the greatest at dropping back into zones, how much do we really care about that? We need a guy to get pressure on the QB. We just can't continue to sacrifice pass rush b/c the prospects don't translate well to OLB.

Let him play the run and if it ain't run get the damn QB!! lol

nepg
04-02-2010, 10:30 AM
All McGinnest and Vrabel did at the end of their tenures in New England was rush the passer. McGinnest was garbage in coverage, but he played pretty much every down.

AntoinCD
04-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Dealing 22 and Oakland's first next year could get them very close to the top 10 however Im not sure they would want to go that high. Although 22 and the Pats first next year could move them to the 11-15 range which is very possible IMO.

Boston_george
04-02-2010, 03:33 PM
Graham can't drop back into coverage and that's something the Patriots have been looking for. I think they thought they were getting it with Adalius, but things changed and they really moved him around. Graham can only put his hand down and rush the passer similar to players they already have. I don't think the Patriots will pick a player like that in first round that will really only make a difference doing one thing. With a 1st round pick they want something who they believe will make a difference on every down. Which is probably one of the reasons they've never drafted an OLB early because they just don't trust a rookie to do that.

That being said I would like the idea of drafting him and moving towards the 4-3. I just don't think he fits what they are looking for at OLB.

Boston_george
04-02-2010, 03:35 PM
Dealing 22 and Oakland's first next year could get them very close to the top 10 however Im not sure they would want to go that high. Although 22 and the Pats first next year could move them to the 11-15 range which is very possible IMO.

It always depends on who is there. Who at the 11-15 range would you target?

Boston_george
04-02-2010, 03:37 PM
All McGinnest and Vrabel did at the end of their tenures in New England was rush the passer. McGinnest was garbage in coverage, but he played pretty much every down.

I think the Pats really rotated the outside guys really well. When Colvin was healthy he the guy who dropped back into coverage. McGinest they dropped back into coverage the least because he was the better pass rusher.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2010, 03:47 PM
Graham can't drop back into coverage and that's something the Patriots have been looking for. I think they thought they were getting it with Adalius, but things changed and they really moved him around. Graham can only put his hand down and rush the passer similar to players they already have. I don't think the Patriots will pick a player like that in first round that will really only make a difference doing one thing. With a 1st round pick they want something who they believe will make a difference on every down. Which is probably one of the reasons they've never drafted an OLB early because they just don't trust a rookie to do that.

That being said I would like the idea of drafting him and moving towards the 4-3. I just don't think he fits what they are looking for at OLB.

Who do we have on the roster that can do that?

AntoinCD
04-02-2010, 04:25 PM
It always depends on who is there. Who at the 11-15 range would you target?

I was thinking Kindle, Haden, McClain or Spiller

Boston_george
04-02-2010, 05:25 PM
Who do we have on the roster that can do that?

TBC or Ninkovich would already be ahead of him at OLB. Not too mention where ever Adalius is. I'm guessing the Pats bring back Burgess for depth.

I personally don't think Graham would be on the field for pass rushing downs if TBC and Burgess are there. I think Graham might be a better pass rusher than Burgess, but Belicheck just doesn't put his rookies out there, especially someone who is changing positions to something he has never done. I guess it's a difference of opinion. I think his value is at DE in 4-3.

Boston_george
04-02-2010, 05:27 PM
I was thinking Kindle, Haden, McClain or Spiller

Good list! Kindle is the one I'm hoping falls a little bit and the Pats only have to move up a few spots to grab him. If he makes it to 18 I think they will make a move up the board. My only fear is that Miami will grab him a little earlier. If Parcells doesn't grab him I'll be surprised. He loves to find that edge rusher. The only one I would be skeptical drafting is McClain.

descendency
04-02-2010, 05:36 PM
I was thinking something very similar recently. We have the ammo and I would be fine with trading up to land Odrick and Graham/Kindle. One of the OLBs will fall to us, it's just a question of who - Graham, Kindle, Griffin or Hughes as a consolation prize.

Trading up to get Odrick would be tough, though. We would essentially have to trade with a team that likely wants him in the 22-29 range filled with 3-4 teams.

I think I would prefer to just trade down (like my Cowboys hypothetical) to add a later 2nd and 3rd. Then we could get Hardesty and a center like Walton.

Something like - Graham / Saffold / Wootton / Hardesty / Walton / Dickson
If you notice, I only list 3 picks in the first two rounds. That's because I traded both 44 and 47 for a pick in to get Graham and likely some mid round pick.

I think the Patriots are a pass rush improvement (DE and OLB) away from being a super bowl contender again. If I were drafting, those three guys would have me feeling like I was in the hunt again.

A running back to eat clock and an elite pass rush... oh my.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2010, 08:36 PM
TBC or Ninkovich would already be ahead of him at OLB. Not too mention where ever Adalius is. I'm guessing the Pats bring back Burgess for depth.

I personally don't think Graham would be on the field for pass rushing downs if TBC and Burgess are there. I think Graham might be a better pass rusher than Burgess, but Belicheck just doesn't put his rookies out there, especially someone who is changing positions to something he has never done. I guess it's a difference of opinion. I think his value is at DE in 4-3.

Definitely a difference of opinion. I'd say Graham, Kindle, Griffen, Morgan and even Hughes would be pretty solid improvements over any of those 3. Adalius - if he even plays for us - can man the OLB spot opposite our shiny new toy, whichever toy it may be.

FlyingElvis
04-02-2010, 10:25 PM
Based on the trade value chart our #47 & #53 total 800 points. Cincy's #21 is worth 800 points.

hhmmmmmmmmm . . . they need a safety but none will be there worth the 21st overall (most likely) so maybe they'd be willing to move. That would be a nice value on both Kindle / Graham and Odrick.

I like it. Somebody get Mike Brown on the phone . . .

nepg
04-03-2010, 07:46 AM
I think Wootton or Jones is better than Odrick anyway... Hell, so is Deadrick.

BradysKnee
04-03-2010, 09:35 AM
Based on the trade value chart our #47 & #53 total 800 points. Cincy's #21 is worth 800 points.

hhmmmmmmmmm . . . they need a safety but none will be there worth the 21st overall (most likely) so maybe they'd be willing to move. That would be a nice value on both Kindle / Graham and Odrick.

I like it. Somebody get Mike Brown on the phone . . .

I'd take it. Graham/Kindle, Hell even Dunlap + Odrick would be a slam dunk.

descendency
04-03-2010, 11:34 AM
I'd take it. Graham/Kindle, Hell even Dunlap + Odrick would be a slam dunk.

Dunlap lacks the athleticism required to play OLB. He's more of a DE in both the 43 and 34 defense. In reality, he's only a 43 DE, but if the Patriots took him, he'd likely be on the end of the line at DE.

BradysKnee
04-03-2010, 12:33 PM
Dunlap lacks the athleticism required to play OLB. He's more of a DE in both the 43 and 34 defense. In reality, he's only a 43 DE, but if the Patriots took him, he'd likely be on the end of the line at DE.

I think he could be a pass rushing LB in the 3-4. He wouldn't be a every down guy immediately, but I think overtime he could be. He has the size BB likes besides that. I'd much rather Kindle or Graham, don't get me wrong, but I think Dunlap would be a nice consolation.

Boston_george
04-03-2010, 02:33 PM
I think he could be a pass rushing LB in the 3-4. He wouldn't be a every down guy immediately, but I think overtime he could be. He has the size BB likes besides that. I'd much rather Kindle or Graham, don't get me wrong, but I think Dunlap would be a nice consolation.

If there is going to be a conversion prospect I think Dunlap or Everson Griffen are the best fits although I doubt the Pats would draft a conversion prospect in the first round. I think Dunlap might have the athleticism to play outside and be someone who eventually wouldn't be a liability in the flat. I rate Dunlap much higher than anyone else because I think he's the better pass rusher than any other potential OLB in the draft.

I am guessing the Pats have decided Ricky Sapp is the best fit for their defense. I'm going into draft friday/weekend thinking the Pats will draft Sapp.

BradysKnee
04-04-2010, 06:30 AM
If there is going to be a conversion prospect I think Dunlap or Everson Griffen are the best fits although I doubt the Pats would draft a conversion prospect in the first round. I think Dunlap might have the athleticism to play outside and be someone who eventually wouldn't be a liability in the flat. I rate Dunlap much higher than anyone else because I think he's the better pass rusher than any other potential OLB in the draft.

I am guessing the Pats have decided Ricky Sapp is the best fit for their defense. I'm going into draft friday/weekend thinking the Pats will draft Sapp.

Yeah Sapp wouldn't surprise me at all either. I'm still on the fence on Sapp though, although I feel we'll have Odrick+Sapp at the end of the day.

TNPatsFan
04-04-2010, 06:48 AM
I like Sapp and it seems the Pats do too. I took him for the Pats with the 53 pick in my live mock, and I think that's a good spot for him. He has some potential. His production was limited due to coming off a major injury and I think also being used out of position a lot at Clemson. When I watched him he had his hand down at DE a lot and I think he would have been better off just playing OLB, even in college. He has a thin build and I think he could easily put on some muscle weight and become a pretty good player.

I have to say, he reminds me a bit of Shawn Crable. Crable has potential that we have yet to see. Hopefully if the Pats take Sapp he can become a player more quickly. However, I don't think Sapp alone would solve the pass rush problem, at least not this season.

proshoota25
04-04-2010, 06:08 PM
yeah the pats really like Sapp. thats why i have him going so early in my mock

AntoinCD
04-05-2010, 05:31 AM
Just thought I would run through the most likely early picks the Pats could go

Jared Odrick-DE Penn State:

As of right now this is where my money is if we stay put at 22. BB has a strong recent history of valuing defensive line picks highly. Two years ago the defensive line featured Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. Safe to say this was the best 30 front in the league. Now Seymour is gone, as is Jarvis Green who provided very good depth at the DE position. Currently we have a combination of Myron Pryor, Mike Wright and Damione Lewis filling the RE spot across from Warren. All of these players definitely have a role to play next year but I am not sure that role is as a starter. Odrick has great size and length for the position and a fantastic motor. While he may never be what Richard Seymour is he will be a very good player at a position of need.
Player comparison-Trevor Pryce

Maurkice Pouncey-OC Florida:

Pouncey is a player who is rising up draft boards extremely quickly as of late and may even be gone by the time we pick. The Patriots on paper don't have a very big need at Center when you consider Dan Koppen was an all pro only 3 years ago. However with the increase in 34 teams across the league(every team in the AFC East now has the 34 as its base) Koppen has been exposed against big NTs like Kris Jenkins, however he does have a very good rapport with Tom Brady which would make a 'true' center unlikely. Pouncey though has the ability and experience to play RG as well where Stephen Neal could be upgraded. An extremely smart pivot, Pouncey could start day one at guard and eventually take over for Koppen in a year or two. Pouncey has also been described as the best center prospect since Nick Mangold.
Player comparison-Jamal Jackson

Sergio Kindle-OLB Texas:

Kindle is a player that everyone likes to mock to the Patriots at the minute. Depending on which site you go to or who you hear it from, Kindle could go anywhere from 12 to the mid second. Personally I think he will go somewhere in between. It's no secret that the Patriots severely lacked a pass rush last year and there simply aren't enough talented players at the OLB position to get by. Tully Banta-Cain had a very good season last year but it is highly unlikely he will repeat it and realistically he got most of his sacks against inferior opposition. BB recently said Derrick Burgess was the best player he has coached at setting the edge while also rushing the passer. Whether that is true or not still doesnt change the fact that we still need an impact pass rusher. Kindle has been highly touted since high school and was expected to be a beast at UT. However this year his production really wasn't very good as teams could focus on him rather than Brian Orakpo from the previous year. Kindle strikes me as a player who can be a good OLB in a 34 scheme but may also be a one trick pony who will be out of his depth.
Player comparison-Kamerion Wimbley

Brandon Graham-OLB Michigan:

If the Pats are going to take an OLB in the first round I would really like it to be Graham. However I also feel he is the least likely to be taken by BB. Graham is not overly fast, not overly big, not overly strong etc. However all he does is make plays. Everyone thinks he is a lot like Lamar Woodley, his former teammate, however I really think Graham could be a better player. As was mentioned above the OLB position is a disaster and really an upgrade in talent is necessary. However due to his lack of size Graham may be limited in his ability to set the edge in run support which lowers his chances of the Patriots taking him.
Player comparison-Robert Mathis

Everson Griffen-DE/OLB USC:

A lot of people are questioning whether or not Griffen can transition to OLB at the next level. While it may take a little time and he may need a year or two to develop I fully expect him to be able to do so, and do it very well. Honestly it seems im higher on Griffen than most but I see him as one of the only prospects who can be an impact pass rusher and be very good in run support. He also has very good size for the positon which may endear him to the coaching staff.
Player comparison-Terrell Suggs

Carlos Dunlap-DE/OLB Florida:

This pick would really worry me if it where to happen. Dunlap undoubtedly has fantastic athleticism and length and could be a real beast at OLB. However he may also be a huge bust and be out of the league in a few years. When his motor is on he is virtually unblockable as was seen in the 2009 National Championship. However the amount of plays he takes off is frightening. It may be the case where he just needs some good coaching to light a fire under him however for a team with quite a few needs I would be wary of using a high pick on him.
Player comparison-Gaines Adams

Jermaine Gresham-TE Oklahoma:

The TE position is not overly utilised in the Patriots offense but I have to believe that is because Tom Brady simply could not trust anyone on the roster to get the job done. In ten years of drafting for the Patriots BB has taken two first round TEs. Recently in an interview BB explained that not only the Patriots, but a lot of teams, have employed the extra offensive lineman as a TE or fullback. With this increasing, the need for an all round TE is decreasing and players like Dallas Clark, Dustin Keller etc who are not good blockers are really flourishing. Gresham has the ability to be a good blocker but his strength is getting vertical down the seem and giving the QB as safety valve. With Welker out for a while this could be the time to get a reliable target at TE.
Player comparison-Tony Scheffler

Ricky Sapp-OLB Clemson:

This pick, for me anyway, would be a huge reach based on film of Sapp. However rumours at the moment are the Patriots are very interested in him. As far as measurables go he has better size than Sergio Kindle and better athleticism than Carlos Dunlap. However he never looked overly dominant in college. With proper coaching and a year or two in a professional strength and conditioning programme he could turn out like a Demarcus Ware type, however right now he is not even on the same planet as a prospect.
Player comparison-Manny Lawson

Razor
04-05-2010, 06:14 AM
Great stuff AntoinCD. I agree with most of it, but I'm not that high on Griffen as a 34 OLB. He seemed very stiff at the Combine. I am, however, very high on Kindle. To me he's the best 34 OLB prospect in the draft. The only real knock on him is his ability to drop back into coverage, but he has some experience with that and I think he'll be able to do it with some good coaching.

Matthew Jones
04-05-2010, 10:04 AM
A lot of weird comparisons but I think you highlighted a lot of guys the Patriots could take there AntoinCD. I don't think New England would take Dunlap or Griffen though, and definitely not Sapp in the first (although I still think our new OLB will probably be him, and at the end of the second round.)

AntoinCD
04-05-2010, 10:10 AM
Yea I didnt want to throw out all the comparisons that everyone thinks like

'Brandon Graham and Lamarr Woodley are both undersized and both played for Michigan...OMG they must be exactly the same'

I think Sapp will be picked and im not hating it unless they take him in the first

FlyingElvis
04-05-2010, 12:57 PM
I like Griffen as an OLB convert, too. Underachievers are always a bit scary but I think he could be great at 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB.

bhyg
04-05-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't like Graham because someone says he's like Woodley, I like him because he was extremely productive, never stops. tackles like you were taught, played great against top competition even in the all star games, hits hard and seems to enjoy himself on the field...ie playing football seems to be important to him. There is nothing I don't like about him

I think he will be an all pro.

I would like us to target him and go get him. I think we will target someone. I think we will use our 2's to move up. I hope they target him.

Does anyone have an opinion about 2 guards...Johnson or Asamoah?

descendency
04-05-2010, 01:43 PM
Yea I didnt want to throw out all the comparisons that everyone thinks like

'Brandon Graham and Lamarr Woodley are both undersized and both played for Michigan...OMG they must be exactly the same'

I think Sapp will be picked and im not hating it unless they take him in the first

If you look at Graham and Woodley, they are scary similar. It's crazy.

If they take Sapp, I'll cry. Sapp clearly is a liability in every phase of the game. His only skill is edge rushing which I can see him failing to do well in the NFL where tackles can handle speed rushers much better. I'd rather take a late round OLB/DE prospect than Sapp.

TNPatsFan
04-05-2010, 06:17 PM
One guy I really like and who isn't being talked about a lot is Jerry Hughes. I believe he is easily the best pure pass rusher in this draft. I'm not so sure the Pats will actually take him because of his size. But he's slightly taller than Graham and only about 10 pounds lighter than Graham so if they are seriously considering Graham there's no reason why they shouldn't also consider Hughes if Graham is off the board.

Hughes is not nearly as good against the run as Graham but I think he's far better prepared to play OLB than Graham is. I'd rather get him via a trade down, but I would not be unhappy if they could get Hughes. He's a fast, strong, athletic, relentless pass rusher who plays the run better than he gets credit for. If nothing else, he's a better pass rusher than TBC.

Matthew Jones
04-09-2010, 11:55 AM
Apparently Dez Bryant has visited the Patriots according to Pro Football Talk. Mike Florio has a little video clip on there and discusses whether or not the Patriots have legitimate interest:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/09/pft-daily-dez-bryants-visit-to-boson-raises-eyebrows/

Any thoughts on him?

FlyingElvis
04-09-2010, 12:03 PM
One guy I really like and who isn't being talked about a lot is Jerry Hughes. I believe he is easily the best pure pass rusher in this draft. I'm not so sure the Pats will actually take him because of his size. But he's slightly taller than Graham and only about 10 pounds lighter than Graham so if they are seriously considering Graham there's no reason why they shouldn't also consider Hughes if Graham is off the board.

Hughes is not nearly as good against the run as Graham but I think he's far better prepared to play OLB than Graham is. I'd rather get him via a trade down, but I would not be unhappy if they could get Hughes. He's a fast, strong, athletic, relentless pass rusher who plays the run better than he gets credit for. If nothing else, he's a better pass rusher than TBC.

I think the size requirement stuff is whitewash ******** from BB. He said he didn't draft anyone b/c there were no prospects with 'prototypical size' and then went and traded for Burgess and started him opposite TBC. Both guys are under 6'2, regardless of what their listed heights may be. Graham at 22 would be great - though I doubt he's available. Hughes in a trade up/down at the end of the 1st before the Saints can draft him would be nice, too.

FlyingElvis
04-09-2010, 12:04 PM
Apparently Dez Bryant has visited the Patriots according to Pro Football Talk. Mike Florio has a little video clip on there and discusses whether or not the Patriots have legitimate interest:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/09/pft-daily-dez-bryants-visit-to-boson-raises-eyebrows/

Any thoughts on him?

No chance he's available at 22. I doubt he makes it out of the top 15 but I would bet my car that he wouldn't get by the Bengals at 21 were he to fall that far.

descendency
04-09-2010, 01:43 PM
No chance he's available at 22. I doubt he makes it out of the top 15 but I would bet my car that he wouldn't get by the Bengals at 21 were he to fall that far.

He's a mediocre to below average route runner who has very low top end speed.

He could fall but I agree that he would be taken at 21 if available.

There are just a ton of red flags and the fact that WRs and ILBs tend to fall on draft day are both reasons to believe that if the Patriots wanted Bryant, he'd be in Boston after draft day.

I think Damian Williams is in the same ball park as Bryant though. So, you can laugh at me when I am completely wrong on draft day.

----

Aside from that, I love hughes and wouldn't mind him, but both of the guys you mentioned were in the NFL. None of the guys in the draft can claim that. Sometimes you worry less about flaws in a player when they have NFL experience.

However, I'd LOVE to see Hughes or Graham heading to Foxborough on draft day. I'd rather have Hughes/Graham and someone like Carrington, Carlos Dunlap (who will play a 5-tech in NE), Cam Thomas, or another possible 5-tech over Odrick and Sapp anyday.

edit: Hughes is a better guy in coverage, but weaker against the run. Graham hasn't shown his ability in coverage but should be assumed to be stiff but is a monster against the run. I'd give Hughes a small edge against Graham in pure pass rushing ability.

However, (Lots of people will disagree) but my #1 pure pass rusher is JPP. I think the kid (if dedicated) is a lot better than people give him credit for. I'm scared of him, but he makes plays against really good teams which tells me that he has the potential.

edit2: While on South Florida players, I'm also scared of George Selvie. I don't think the guy can play OLB. I see him as a 43 LDE. He's stiff and not an exceptional pass rusher. He got double teamed and disappeared. Stiff makes him a 3-rd down pass rusher only, which means he might be a good value in the 4th round. I don't know why Selvie wasn't moved to LDE and JPP to RDE at South Florida. That was concerning to me.

bhyg
04-09-2010, 09:04 PM
I think the size requirement stuff is whitewash ******** from BB. He said he didn't draft anyone b/c there were no prospects with 'prototypical size' and then went and traded for Burgess and started him opposite TBC. Both guys are under 6'2, regardless of what their listed heights may be. Graham at 22 would be great - though I doubt he's available. Hughes in a trade up/down at the end of the 1st before the Saints can draft him would be nice, too.

FINALLY SOMEONE HAS SAID IT! I can't agree with you more regarding this stupidity that BB looks at an OLB height.

There are two players I am very high on. Everyone has heard me say Graham, but I also think the PATS will target DE/DT Alualu. Everyteam that passes up on him will look back and say "how could we possibly let him get past us". I think he will be special.

I hope BB is as smart as me (let me hear it for that one) and trades up to get Graham before someone else drafts him. Then trades up again with our remaining 2's to get Alualu. So we will end up with 2 picks instead of 4 but we will add two front seven players who have motors like Seau and Bruschi. Everyone will love fall in love with Graham and Alualu early in the preseason. I guarantee it.

If you look at our d after adding those two I think we have the core of a sensational D. Then you can use FA and middle rounders to fill some depth as time moves on, but our D is not old any longer. We'll still have questions at one OLB and one ILB. I like Guyton's speed and who knows about McKenzie but they might both be better backups or situational players like TBC. I hope Guyton can take it up a notch. (He should watch film of Seau taking on G's in the hole and copy him but I digress.)

Bodden, Butler, Wilhite are ok at CB. One more would be nice because everyone will continue to try to copy what the PATS did in '07 and have three and four wides as a base O. I think you have to be at least four deep in starting calibur CB. We are deep and young at S. They will all get better with more experience so I'm ok with that position (aren't you all glad I'm ok with our S's?)

I think our starting DL line will again be superior after adding Alualu and our depth/rotation is good with Pryor, Wright, and Lewis. Brace is big but he needs to make that big year 2 jump.

So while we still will have a few questions at LB I think our D will be much better this year. Alualu is the most underrated player in this draft.

A lot of pass rushers in this draft seem very one dimensional(like Burgess)
imo. So why not just re-sign Burgess and use our draft picks on non one dimensional players.

Now, feel free to tell me how stupid I am. I have broad shoulders. I can take it. Thanks for reading such a long post.

bhyg
04-09-2010, 09:12 PM
Here is a draft report from another site, but watch some film of Alualu. You'll agree with this assessment.

Tyson Alualu DT California

Round 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

STRENGTHS

Tyson plays the game of football like his crotch is on fire. He has good size, linebacker speed and Warren Sapp-like quickness from a three point stance. He is strong at the point of attack, but the true strength of his overall game is his ability to disrupt a play by getting into the backfield and pass rushing. Tyson takes on a double team easily in both the running game and passing game because he understands leverage. He will run a play down from behind sixty yards down the field. He is a very smart player who will do what is needed of him to make a play for his team. Tyson is the type of player for whom an offensive line coach will have to account on every down, no matter if it is a running play or a passing play. This kid will become the focal point of your defensive front and a player around whom you can build your defense.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

If Tyson is drafted by a team that does not move him around all over the front four of their defense, then that will be a shame. He is a player that will be more effective if he is not limited to just one position on every play. He will still impact at one position, but he will not be as disruptive.

BOTTOM LINE

Tyson's game fits a 3-4 defense, but he can still play as a DE/DT in a 4-3. He has the speed and quickness to come at you from any defensive line position on the field. This is a kid who looks to be 290 lbs and plays with the speed and quickness of a LB. He plays in a 3-4 defense now and his college coaches move this kid around that defense like a casino dealer shuffling a deck of cards. I have seen this kid play every position on the defensive front and be disruptive, make tackles, run down plays from behind, stuff the run and make a sack from every one of those positions. I suspect that most teams are going to suggest that Tyson is a tweener and a bit undersized. Those are teams that lack vision. Tyson is a player who has unique athletic talents for his size. Shuffle this kid around your defensive front seven and you will have every offensive coordinator in the NFL having to account for him on every offensive play. For a 3-4 defense, this kid should be a top ten pick. For a defense that runs the conventional 4-3 defense who needs a player who can play multiple positions on your defensive front, drop off the line into coverage and rush the passer using his quickness, strength and speed then those teams also should be rating Tyson on their boards as a top ten pick. There is no style of defense that this kid will not impact in.

proshoota25
04-09-2010, 10:35 PM
you guys are much higher on him than i am

Razor
04-10-2010, 08:35 AM
I'm obviously not as high on Alualu as you are. And no, I'm not going to tell you that you're stupid or anything, I think it was a very good post. My thing is, that I believe that size matters on the defensive line and at LB. You need to have a big, strong body and long arms to be a force in football today. Otherwise you run the risk of having your players dominated by big, strong and yet athletic offensive linemen. How many championships did the Colts win despite having a superior offense for the better part of the last decade? They had talent on defense and yet they got pushed around. Of course there are players who becomes elite despite their lack of size, but it would be a mistake imo to look at those anomalies and interpret them as "a trend that shows, that small players now have an advantage over the bigger players due to their speed and agility" (yes, that is an actual argument I read somewhere). I don't [I]want Brandon Graham or Tyson Alualu the same way that I want Sergio Kindle, Linval Joseph, Al Woods and JPP. And the only reason for that is their lack of ideal size.

bhyg
04-10-2010, 02:43 PM
How dare anyone not be as high on Graham and Alualu as I am :) I understand your reasoning but I disagree in this instance. these players were real productive. Welker doesn't have ideal size or speed. Zach Thomas played a very long time and was extremely productive. We're not talking midgets here. Alualu is 295 pounds. That's not small. Graham is 270 pounds. That is not small either. Alualu is 6' 2.5". So you won't draft him because he's an inch shorter than you'd like. If he was 5' 10" I'd be a bit more weary and would probably agree that he might just get tied up in the NFL. Graham is 6' 1.5". Bruschi was shorter than that. The size of these guys isn't a deal killer imo

One reason I like these two in particularr is attitude/nastiness. These guys will bring an attitude and play hard like Bruschi did. We didn't have that enough last year. I think these guys will add more than just good fotball. I don't think JPP has that. I think he will be on and off and I hate that.

Don't read anything. Look at film if you didn't see them play. Google their name and youtube and watch. It'll bring you into the light :) ... and you'll have fun. Enjoy and thanks.

BradysKnee
04-10-2010, 03:51 PM
While I do think BB thinks about height, I don't think he does as much as people seem to think. I think he looks at arm span more than height personally.

Razor
04-10-2010, 05:28 PM
While I do think BB thinks about height, I don't think he does as much as people seem to think. I think he looks at arm span more than height personally.

Exactly. With size (height) comes long arms. That's very important to 3-4 DEs, and Tyson Alualu can't occupy multiple blockers in the NFL as he did in college. At least not as a DE in the 34, but I could see him doing it in the 4-3. And btw, Bruschi was listed at 6'4" 254 lbs iirc - not exactly a "small" player. I have seen both play, and I love how they play the game. I'm just saying that their build might be a limitation for them in the NFL.

bhyg
04-10-2010, 07:54 PM
Exactly. With size (height) comes long arms. That's very important to 3-4 DEs, and Tyson Alualu can't occupy multiple blockers in the NFL as he did in college. At least not as a DE in the 34, but I could see him doing it in the 4-3. And btw, Bruschi was listed at 6'4" 254 lbs iirc - not exactly a "small" player. I have seen both play, and I love how they play the game. I'm just saying that their build might be a limitation for them in the NFL.

Absolutely. It's arm length that matters for battles in the trenches.

I disagree about Alualu not being able to deal with double teams. I think he did that well and I didn't see anything that makes me think he won't be able to do it in the NFL. I think he's going to be a great 34 DE. (I don't throw "great" around often).

I actually think their builds (Graham and Alualu) will be an asset for both. They are muscular not twigs like a guy like Crable...who I hated in college. I was so ticked off when the PATS took him. In fact that is why so many of the pass rushers in this draft do nothing for me. Because they are lanky. They will be one dimentional and I'm not interested in that.

Sorry. I really hate to say when someone is wrong (I'm happy to disagree)but I think you are looking at someone elses bio. Bruschi was 6'1" 247. I'm positive about this. (I've been a season ticket holder since 1971 not that that matters but I followed things like that...it's a curse). You can confirm this on nfl.com. They have it correctly.

What is your opinion about Kindle's ability to stop the run and hold the edge?

proshoota25
04-10-2010, 10:02 PM
brandon graham had an official visit wit the pats. i doubt he last to 22 anyway, a lot of people think Atlanta has targeted him at 19

bhyg
04-11-2010, 08:54 AM
I agree. I doubt that Graham will get past Atlanta. He might not get past Tenn. If I were BB, I'd trade 53 and 22 to get to SF's first pick if Graham is still there. Obviously they talk to other GM's on draft day with trade talk and figure who a team is about to take and try to work out trade partners based on that. I like Weatherspoon a lot as well. He could be moved to ILB also. His PR isn't as good as Graham and he isn't as big, but he's super productive and is just a real good football player. He athletic and can play any LB position. He might not last to 22.

Razor
04-11-2010, 09:14 AM
Crap, I was wrong about Bruschi I see.. I was sure about it though, maybe they changed it lol... I think Kindle is more of a force against the run than as a pass rusher at this point, but he's also good at rushing the QB. To me, he's the perfect fit in Patriots' scheme.

proshoota25
04-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Crap, I was wrong about Bruschi I see.. I was sure about it though, maybe they changed it lol... I think Kindle is more of a force against the run than as a pass rusher at this point, but he's also good at rushing the QB. To me, he's the perfect fit in Patriots' scheme.

i agree razor. hes the pass rusher i want the most for us

descendency
04-11-2010, 02:13 PM
Kindle tends to disappear at times though. despite being a very good athlete on a very good defense, he didn't manage the production you would expect.

Kindle doesn't bother me, I just think he will be drafted too high.

bhyg
04-11-2010, 02:45 PM
I looked at more film of Weatherspoon. He makes too many tackles down field. Scratch him.

Tell me whether you think Kindle can hold the edge

nepg
04-11-2010, 03:24 PM
Kindle reminds me of Colvin. I wouldn't hate the pick, but I'd rather have a few other guys if they're available.

BradysKnee
04-11-2010, 04:33 PM
How opposed is everyone to the Pats trading Oaklands 1st. Now I know it has the potential to be a top 10, but Oakland could go .500 next year if things go well for them. Maybe.

I think in a draft like this you definitely consider it, I love this draft class and think it's probably going to rival alot of great ones.

descendency
04-11-2010, 05:00 PM
How opposed is everyone to the Pats trading Oaklands 1st. Now I know it has the potential to be a top 10, but Oakland could go .500 next year if things go well for them. Maybe.

I think in a draft like this you definitely consider it, I love this draft class and think it's probably going to rival alot of great ones.

The draft next year will have 3-4 WRs, 2-3 QBs, a RB, a CB, and an OT with maybe a DE or DT in the top 10. (At least those are my projections) How many of those do we need? I'm scared because the DT is Marvin Austin who has questionable motor.

I think, if the Patriots see the right person, they should pull the trigger.

Tell me whether you think Kindle can hold the edge

Not consistently.

bhyg
04-11-2010, 08:58 PM
How opposed is everyone to the Pats trading Oaklands 1st. Now I know it has the potential to be a top 10, but Oakland could go .500 next year if things go well for them. Maybe.

I think in a draft like this you definitely consider it, I love this draft class and think it's probably going to rival alot of great ones.

I think it goes to why the PATS chose to take the pick in '11 in the first place. They don't want to pay that amount of money to an unproven guy. I don't think they will trade into the top ten. So with that assumption they can get to 11-12 by trading their 1 and a 2. They can also trade only two 2's and get to about 20.

They won't touch that pick, but that wasn't your question. To answer your question, no I wouldn't trade the pick. You'll never get even close to it's value because it's for next year (a 2 but not a 1)...even with the probable salary scale that will be in place. I think they have either enough picks in the top 53 to get a bunch of good players or the ammo to target someone (did anyone mention Alualu or Graham? :)

Be patient. Next year at this time you will be happy that you have that pick. REAL HAPPY!

If anyone on this thread has only read about Alualu, I suggest you look at some film online.

proshoota25
04-11-2010, 11:03 PM
i wouldnt mind drafting patrick peterson, aj green, or julio jones next year...... just sayin

Razor
04-12-2010, 02:36 AM
I've already decided that I want AJ Green next year. :) But there are a lot of interesting prospects who could declare for next year. I think that Kindle can hold the edge, but not like Brandon Graham since he doesn't have the strength that Graham does. But I don't think he'll be a liability either.

It's funny you should mention Colvin, nepg. He was one of my favorite Patriot players some years back. Unfortunatly his career got derailed by a number of injuries, but despite that he performed really well. I do, however, think that Kindle is going to be better than Colvin.

Matthew Jones
04-12-2010, 09:32 AM
I know this is a little off-topic currently but I recently compiled a list of everyone I know the Patriots have had in for a private workout on have visited on campus. The source for mostly all of these is either the Boston Globe or Herald, but extra sources were listed on there for people not mentioned on those sites. In case anyone is interested, here are the lists:

PRIVATE VISITS

QB Tim Tebow, Florida
RB Montario Hardesty, Tennessee
RB Charles Scott, Louisiana St.
WR Arrelious Benn, Illinois (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Arrelious-Benn-has-visited-the-Bengals-Cowboys-Patriots-and-Steelers.html)
WR Dez Bryant, Oklahoma St.
WR Eric Decker, Minnesota
OT Nic Richmond, Texas Christian (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Patriots-to-work-out-Richmond.html)
C Maurkice Pouncey, Florida
DE Tyson Alualu, California
DE Brandon Graham, Michigan
DE Jerry Hughes, Texas Christian
DE Chris McCoy, Tennessee St.
DE Daniel Te'o-Nesheim, Washington
NT Cam Thomas, North Carolina
NT Dan Williams, Tennessee
CB Kyle Wilson, Boise St.

ON-CAMPUS VISTS

QB Armanti Edwards, Appalachian St.
QB Mike Kafka, Northwestern
QB Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St.
QB Tony Pike, Cincinnati
RB Jonathan Dwyer, Georgia Tech
RB Dexter McCluster, Mississippi
RB James Starks, Buffalo
FB Manase Tonga, Brigham Young
WR Mardy Gilyard, Cincinnati
WR Andre Roberts, Citadel
WR Damian Williams, Southern California
TE Jermaine Gresham, Oklahoma
TE Aaron Hernandez, Florida
TE Dennis Pitta, Brigham Young
TE Tony Moeaki, Iowa
DE Corey Peters, Kentucky
DE Ricky Sapp, Clemson
DT Al Woods, Louisiana St.
NT Jeff Owens, Georgia
LB Thaddeus Gibson, Ohio St.
LB Sergio Kindle, Texas
LB Matt Mayberry, Indiana
LB Brandon Spikes, Florida
CB Nolan Carroll, Maryland
CB Devin McCourty, Rutgers
CB Sherrick McManis, Northwestern
S Kam Chancellor, Virginia Tech
S Earl Thomas, Texas
P Zoltan Mesko, Michigan

BradysKnee
04-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Awesome list to put up.

I'm intrigued to see Montario Hardesty and Eric Decker there. Those are two guys I really like and think could be picked as surprises by the Pats on draft day.

FlyingElvis
04-12-2010, 11:25 AM
How opposed is everyone to the Pats trading Oaklands 1st. Now I know it has the potential to be a top 10, but Oakland could go .500 next year if things go well for them. Maybe.

I think in a draft like this you definitely consider it, I love this draft class and think it's probably going to rival alot of great ones.

Trading NE's first, maybe. Either way I don't like it, though. Future picks are devalued so it's never worth it. Plus there's little distinction in value between our 1st and Oak's first with zero games played. BB trades the other way all the time b/c of this fact, so I doubt we'll ever see him trade away future picks in rounds 1-3.

FlyingElvis
04-12-2010, 11:31 AM
blah blah blah ;)

Awesome post.

Guys I love:
RB Montario Hardesty, Tennessee
WR Arrelious Benn, Illinois (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Arrelious-Benn-has-visited-the-Bengals-Cowboys-Patriots-and-Steelers.html)
WR Dez Bryant, Oklahoma St.
C Maurkice Pouncey, Florida
DE Tyson Alualu, California
DE Brandon Graham, Michigan
DE Jerry Hughes, Texas Christian
DE Daniel Te'o-Nesheim, Washington
NT Cam Thomas, North Carolina
NT Dan Williams, Tennessee
CB Kyle Wilson, Boise St.
WR Damian Williams, Southern California
TE Jermaine Gresham, Oklahoma
P Zoltan Mesko, Michigan
DT Al Woods, Louisiana St.
LB Sergio Kindle, Texas
CB Devin McCourty, Rutgers

Guys I like:
QB Mike Kafka, Northwestern (Private workout?)
QB Tony Pike, Cincinnati
WR Mardy Gilyard, Cincinnati
WR Andre Roberts, Citadel
TE Aaron Hernandez, Florida
TE Dennis Pitta, Brigham Young
TE Tony Moeaki, Iowa
S Earl Thomas, Texas
LB Thaddeus Gibson, Ohio St.
WR Eric Decker, Minnesota

Guys I know nothing about . . .
OT Nic Richmond, Texas Christian (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Patriots-to-work-out-Richmond.html)
DE Chris McCoy, Tennessee St.
QB Armanti Edwards, Appalachian St.
QB Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St.
RB James Starks, Buffalo
FB Manase Tonga, Brigham Young
DE Corey Peters, Kentucky
NT Jeff Owens, Georgia
LB Matt Mayberry, Indiana
CB Nolan Carroll, Maryland
CB Sherrick McManis, Northwestern

Guys I don't really like:
DE Ricky Sapp, Clemson (looks weak and unaggressive)
LB Brandon Spikes, Florida (unless we can get him with our 4th)
S Kam Chancellor, Virginia Tech (no need for S at all)

Don Vito
04-12-2010, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the list ROP and nice list Elvis, I like seeing that we brought in Graham and Hughes.

Matthew Jones
04-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Updated the list with Charles Scott and Jonathan Dwyer. I'll keep updating it as it goes.

AntoinCD
04-13-2010, 04:30 AM
I know he's not on the list there of players who have visited or had workouts but what do you guys think of Jermaine Cunningham. I've seen him sneaking up into the late second in a lot of mocks recently. I like him quite a bit and think he has great upside. Also think he would benefit from playing OLB and could be a better pro than college player

Razor
04-13-2010, 04:50 AM
Cunningham scares me. I liked Harvey a lot coming out, but his failure in the NFL so far makes me not wanting Cunningham. His lack of production tells me, that a) he doesn't give a lot of efford or b) doesn't have the skills/technique to beat his opponent. And this is just in college, imagine how hard it would be for him in the NFL. I know that he would play OLB where he has a big advantage compared to playing 4-3 DE, but still I'd prefer taking a chance with Hardy, Lang or Selvie instead of Cunningham.

AntoinCD
04-13-2010, 05:05 AM
Cunningham scares me. I liked Harvey a lot coming out, but his failure in the NFL so far makes me not wanting Cunningham. His lack of production tells me, that a) he doesn't give a lot of efford or b) doesn't have the skills/technique to beat his opponent. And this is just in college, imagine how hard it would be for him in the NFL. I know that he would play OLB where he has a big advantage compared to playing 4-3 DE, but still I'd prefer taking a chance with Hardy, Lang or Selvie instead of Cunningham.

I was extremely high on Selvie last year and actually had him going 3 overall in my first mock of the year but film doesn't lie. He was horrible this year and I would be worried using a 4th on him now. Lang is another player I like and Hardy has top 10 ability but he has serious issues

Razor
04-13-2010, 05:10 AM
I think Selvie is a late round option for the Pats, whereas Hardy and Lang are options in the fourth. Hall Davis is another guy I forgot to mention. I'm not high on any of them, but I'd prefer all of them to Cunningham simply because they have been productive.

TNPatsFan
04-13-2010, 07:05 AM
I actually like Cunningham more than Dunlap, but I suppose that's just because you can take him later so it's less of a risk.

I will continue to say this until a player proves it false... Florida players should not be drafted early. Just look up the list of Florida players currently in the NFL. It is unimpressive to say the least. How a college program that is so good can produce such a pitiful crop of NFL players is astounding. There were zero ex-Florida players in the Pro Bowl this year, and zero in the Pro Bowl last year (and that's all I bothered to check, the streak may very well go back further than that). I'm not sure why it is, but it's fact. Florida players just never make it in the NFL. The best one I can think of is Alex Brown, who just got cut by a team that needs DE's.

As for the other guys mentioned, I would be happy with Lang in the fourth. Selvie is more of a fifth to me. Hardy I am not interested in at all.

bhyg
04-13-2010, 09:41 AM
Like anybody cares, but I've decided. It is imperative that we get Alualu and Jahvid Best. Everything wlse is gravy. I think I'd draft a pass rusher in round two and trade a two this year for a 1 next year. Graham will be gone and I think that these other two will make more of an impact. I think Gerhart reminds me of John Riggins. If Best is gone, we should take him

Well, there you have it. Let me hear it.

Matthew Jones
04-13-2010, 09:51 AM
Patriots are visiting with Dexter McCluster today.

AntoinCD
04-13-2010, 09:52 AM
Everyone seems to be falling in love with Alualu at the minute. I like him but Im not sure I like him that much and actuallythink he'd be better in a 43. Obviously I love Best(don't want Gerhart) and we do need a pass rusher. However if we trade for another future first I'll be pissed. There may be elite level top talent next year at WR, CB and QB but after that it's not a great draft and that's assuming that the underclassmen all come out. Realistially we have too many holes to keep adding future picks

Razor
04-13-2010, 10:03 AM
As I've previously stated, I'm not that high on Alualu as some of you guys. As Antoin said, I think he's more of a 4-3 UT. If he plays in the 3-4 it should be a one gap system like what they have in Dallas. If not he'll bust imo.

I like that the Patriots are looking at McCluster, but e said they asked him to draw a lot of routes and that it mostly was about him playing slot receiver. So now I don't want him. We have one great slot receiver (Welker), one who showed flashes of greatness (Edelman) and one unknown (Tate) at the position. Why would we draft another one? If we draft him as a third down back I'd love it. But not as a receiver..

Don Vito
04-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Patriots are visiting with Dexter McCluster today.

That jersey would be mine if we ever drafted him, I think he could be a stud here.

As for Cunningham, I like him a lot and would not mind snatching him in the fourth. He projects much better to OLB than Derrick Harvey or Dunlap, he is like Selvie just more athletic. I think he could be a very good 3-4 OLB in the pros.

AntoinCD
04-13-2010, 10:58 AM
I like that they were asking him about routes and stuff. Realistically Kevin Faulk is a slot receiver who stands beside Brady. The staple of the Pats offense for the last few years has been four wide and one back normally with all five running routes. I think McCluster could excel as the one back in that offense. I also think he could be used as a contingency plan for Welker for a while.

FlyingElvis
04-13-2010, 11:32 AM
I'm not sure why the Alualu hype is gaining so much steam. Mayock loves him which is enough for me, but he consistently says Alualu was playing out of position as a 5tech and should be a 43 DE. So . . . yeah, not really a big target for us, I hope.


Best would be great. Spiller would be better. McCluster would be an excellent addition as the heir apparent to Kevin Faulk aka Mr. Patriot, III.

proshoota25
04-13-2010, 08:02 PM
great stuff guys. cunningham could be a very solid rotational player in the NFL in my opinion. spiller would be great, but i doubt we draft him. I guy like best in the second round would be preferable.

Don Vito
04-14-2010, 03:32 AM
I've wanted us to get a pass rusher so badly this draft ever since the season but now I'd be OK with DL or OL round 1 just as much as I would be with OLB. We have a big hole at one of our DE spots and we could go anywhere on the OL, our pass rush was anemic last year but we build from the inside out so I would not be surprised if we wait until the end of the second to grab a pass rusher. If we don't get one in the first two rounds I will be pissed though.

I'm thinking something like this:

1. Odrick
2. Gronkowski
2. Sapp
2. McCluster

or

1. Pouncey
2. Hughes
2. Carrington
2. Gilyard

FlyingElvis
04-14-2010, 08:49 AM
^I'd be happy with both, though if Hughes is available at 44 he should absolutely be the pick. I think he's the hypeless wonder at this point and may be the surprise of the draft when he doesn't make it out of the 1st. I just don't see him sliding by all the 34 teams from 22-29.

Razor
04-14-2010, 12:02 PM
BB just said at the pre draft press conference, that they've already received some calls about their second round picks. Uh oh.... Look like we're going to trade them - again! If we get a pass rusher in round one I wouldn't mind trading #44 for a first next year, but that's it! We need talent in the worst way, but BB will always look ahead. It used to be his strength, I'm afraid it's only holding the team back at this point.

FlyingElvis
04-14-2010, 12:21 PM
It depends on where guys fall. If we pass on a player like Pouncey, Hughes, Gresham, or even McCourtey at 44 to trade down I will be pissed. If they're all gone, however, and we don't have great value / fit picks there then I'm fine with trading down and acquiring a 3rd, 4th, 5th or some combination of 3/4/5.

There will be a lot of talent at the RB, TE, and OL spots we need to fill through 5 rounds. We could swap out for 2 later round picks and grab guys like Dickerson / McCoy / Dickson / Pitta at TE; Walton / Tennant at C; or even a HB like Hardesty / Tate / Blount and get much better value out of the pick.

Looking at posted mocks and the general consensus of where players may go, I think a trade down can work out well. But it is completely dependant on the board at the time.

bhyg
04-14-2010, 07:22 PM
We might trade a 2 for a 3 this year and a 2 next or a 2 for a 1 next. The only other scenario I see is moving down 10 picks and adding a pick the next round.

But I think that we will target someone and move up. Maybe more than once.

You add picks for the future so you can either do what we did last year...adding 6 solid picks for an infusion of youth, or so that you can target someone. Then you are getting exactly what you want...and that is what I see happening this year. Next year we will have another high 1st so we again can target someone.

Last years picks, this years picks and next years picks will solidify the PATS as the team to beat for the next decade. We've gone from an older team to one full of youth in a short time.

Since I have the feeling that most people would rather the PATS traded up than down, I think there will be a lot of happy PATS fans out there.

Does anyone else feel this way?

BradysKnee
04-14-2010, 08:09 PM
We might trade a 2 for a 3 this year and a 2 next or a 2 for a 1 next. The only other scenario I see is moving down 10 picks and adding a pick the next round.

But I think that we will target someone and move up. Maybe more than once.

You add picks for the future so you can either do what we did last year...adding 6 solid picks for an infusion of youth, or so that you can target someone. Then you are getting exactly what you want...and that is what I see happening this year. Next year we will have another high 1st so we again can target someone.

Last years picks, this years picks and next years picks will solidify the PATS as the team to beat for the next decade. We've gone from an older team to one full of youth in a short time.

Since I have the feeling that most people would rather the PATS traded up than down, I think there will be a lot of happy PATS fans out there.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I completely think the Pats are going to be aggressive in this draft. I have a feeling they really like this draft class, hence the very conservative approach this year in free agency/trades.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us make 2 picks in the first 2 rounds. Trading up from 22 and then up again into Round 1 or early round 2 and giving up one or both of our 2nds and maybe picking up a third.

Don Vito
04-14-2010, 10:56 PM
I know his best fit comes as a 4-3 UT, but a guy we never talk about as a possibility is Lamaar Houston. He has the skills to translate to 3-4 end, he is more of a 3 technique I know but I think he is at least a possibility if we don't take Odrick in the first and he falls to the second.

BradysKnee
04-15-2010, 09:58 AM
I know his best fit comes as a 4-3 UT, but a guy we never talk about as a possibility is Lamaar Houston. He has the skills to translate to 3-4 end, he is more of a 3 technique I know but I think he is at least a possibility if we don't take Odrick in the first and he falls to the second.

I agree with you. But the more I've watched of Odrick, the less I don't mind them taking him at 22. I've been all about a pass rusher, but Odrick is a talented dude. He's fierce and plays like a beast.

I think the Pats probably have several plans involving trading up if Kindle or Graham fall far enough, or maybe even Mcclain if he falls past #12.

I think otherwise Odrick is a lock at 22.

bhyg
04-15-2010, 03:23 PM
Alualu is better than Odrick. Much better. Time will prove me right. And I'm always right...well not always but sometimes...well not sometimes but once I thought I was right.

Seriously if you don't agree with me watch this clip...he's number 44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72KQ_NzX8NU

The last time I felt this way about a guy was Steve Hutchinson. I knew Hutchinson was going into the Hall. I would pick Alualu in the top five without blinking

Wootylicous
04-15-2010, 04:02 PM
You are a crazy crazyyyyyyyyy man

Razor
04-16-2010, 06:58 AM
So.. I've decided to share my "Patriots Big Board" with you. It's not my overall rankings, it's 20 players who I want the Patriots to pick in the first two rounds. The reason I only did two rounds is that after that it's pretty much impossible to say who's going to be around. I've tried to limit myself to players that might have a chance of being there when we pick.

1. Rolando McClain
2. Sergio Kindle
3. Trent Williams
4. Jason Pierre-Paul
5. Joe Haden
6. CJ Spiller
7. Jared Odrick
8. Dez Bryant
9. Brandon Graham
10. Jermaine Gresham
11. Maurkice Pouncey
12. Jerry Hughes
13. Carlos Dunlap
14. Damian William
15. Jahvid Best
16. Rob Gronkowski
17. Brandon Spikes
18. Linval Joseph
19. Corey Wootton
20. Devin McCourty

bhyg
04-16-2010, 06:22 PM
You put it out there so I have to respond. A lot of those players are good and some of them don't fit what the PATS do imo.

You know I have to say this. Alualu? He played in a 3-4 and played every position including nose and the 5 technique. They also played a 4-3 and again he played both end and tackle. He was constantly double or triple teamed and and was still very productive. He's mature and loves football and plays to the whistle.

What makes you put some of the DL on your list but omit Alualu? What do they do he doesn't? What do any of them do better?

You have to watch film of him. I know you will after the PATS draft him.

Hughes can't stop the run. He circles to make plays and often looks lost out there. Don't like him. JPP... A one year wonder who actually only had production in half a year. I wouldn't take him.

I love Trent Williams. I think he will go #4. We'll never have a chance for him. I don't like Pouncey. He's a finesse OL and I don't like that in an OL. He might be good in a different scheme but not for me. Don't like Bryant's head.

Graham, Spiller, McClain and Haden will never last to 22 but I think the PATS will move up. Maybe to Jacksonville.

I hope I haven't been too negative. Most of the players you have on your list are good. I appreciate that you took the time to give us your opinion. Thanks.

TNPatsFan
04-16-2010, 06:56 PM
In other words, your list would be great if it had Alualu at the top.

descendency
04-16-2010, 07:04 PM
I want graham. I think Hughes is a 1 down player (3rd). Graham is a 3 down OLB in the Patriots system.

Dez Bryant will never be on Bill Belichicks big board.

proshoota25
04-16-2010, 10:27 PM
sergio kindle

BradysKnee
04-16-2010, 10:50 PM
sergio kindle

I can't see Kindle lasting to 22 sadly.

Razor
04-17-2010, 03:03 AM
I'm not a big fan of Hughes, but something needs to be done. If we miss out on any of the three other guys we have to take a chance and select Hughes imo. But in the second, which is indicated by the list. Kindle is by far my favourite prospect this year, but if McClain falls I want him. This guy is a sure thing and will be a impact player for us. If we don't get him I want Spikes in the second. As for Alualu (sigh... :) )... I don't want to write it all again, so..
As I've previously stated, I'm not that high on Alualu as some of you guys. As Antoin said, I think he's more of a 4-3 UT. If he plays in the 3-4 it should be a one gap system like what they have in Dallas. If not he'll bust imo.

I know there's more in these thread, but I didn't couldn't find the other Alualu bashing posts. :) As for Kindle being there at 22, I think it's a longshot after the Dolphins signed Marshall. They only have Wake at OLB right know, and unless JPP falls to them I can't see them not taking Kindle sadly..

TNPatsFan
04-17-2010, 11:35 AM
Taking a cue from Razor, here is my board. I didn't narrow it down to 20, just tried to think of all the guys that could go in the top 2 rounds that would make me happy if the Pats got them. I came up with 27. It's a little hard to put them in any order once you get past the first half dozen or so, but it's pretty close to the order I would like them. Some of these guys will of course go before 22, but could probably still be had by the Pats if they dropped into the teens and the Pats wanted to move up:

1. Sergio Kindle
2. Rolando McClain
3. Derrick Morgan
4. Jerry Hughes
5. C.J. Spiller
6. Brandon Graham
7. Trent Williams
8. Devin McCourty
9. Ryan Matthews
10. Mardy Gilyard
11. Sean Weatherspoon
12. Corey Wootton
13. Damian Williams
14. Bryan Bulaga
15. Patrick Robinson
16. Jon Asamoah
17. Jermaine Gresham
18. Ricky Sapp
19. Eric Decker
20. Dexter McCluster
21. Demaryious Thomas
22. Dan Williams
23. Arrelious Benn
24. Jahvid Best
25. Brian Price
26. Jared Odrick
27. Jonathan Dwyer

ryno626
04-17-2010, 05:17 PM
Is Linval Joseph someone that would be a viable prospect? I don't know anything about the kid but Scott seems pretty high on him as a 5 tech 3-4 end. Kindle or Graham would fall or even jump up a few spots to grab him them take Joseph in the 2nd as opposed to taking Odrick in with #22 and grabbing a second tier passrusher.

proshoota25
04-17-2010, 05:23 PM
i personally am very weary of fast rising types like joseph

bhyg
04-18-2010, 05:24 AM
Whoever reads only thios sites anakysis of Alualu is making a HUGE mistake. He's faster and quicker than lust about any tackle and most ends I've seen yet this site says he has only above averagespeed and quickness. He also played EXTENSIVELY in a 3-4. He played Nose and end. He also played tackle and end in a 4-3. People who say he can't play a 5 tech never saw this guy. This site has a poor assessment of his abilities.

I agree with a lot of you that there are a lot of 1 down pass rushers. I really think that it would be a mistake to draft someone like that.

I just saw some film on Chaney an ILB. I like him a lot.

I read something about Best that might make me push hum way down my board. He has pain from his neck to his legs (nerve) and is worried about concussions. He's already beaten up. He will likely be too fragile.

Kindle and Morgan and McClain are all good but I wouldn't trade up to get them. Alualu and Graham I would. I would take Chaney in round two. The write up on Gerhart in this site is also not accurate. It says he's slow. It says that there are players who are slower than him have good speed. I don't get it.

I should have taken that job as a scout when Carmen Policy offerred it too me in 1984. My grandfather played Pro Football. I remember watching the Championship game when I was three. That was before they called it a Super Bowl.

AntoinCD
04-18-2010, 05:49 AM
Whoever reads only thios sites anakysis of Alualu is making a HUGE mistake. He's faster and quicker than lust about any tackle and most ends I've seen yet this site says he has only above averagespeed and quickness. He also played EXTENSIVELY in a 3-4. He played Nose and end. He also played tackle and end in a 4-3. People who say he can't play a 5 tech never saw this guy. This site has a poor assessment of his abilities.


I dont think many people are saying he cant play 5 tech but from watching him he is definitely more suited to a one gap system. As was mentioned above he would be a great fit for a team like Dallas if he goes to a 34 team. I just dont see him being great at standing up an OT and shedding blocks to make the tackle. He is much more effective as a penetrating player. Something the Patriots do not need

TNPatsFan
04-21-2010, 06:43 AM
We're almost there. There are so many ways the Pats could go. Most of us see them taking an OLB or a DE, but it won't surprise me if they take an OL, or a CB, or a TE, or a WR, or a DT, or even RB.

The tricky part is there are unknowns at several positions. We don't know what we have in Brandon Tate. If the Pats think he can be a starting WR then maybe they don't draft a WR (I don't think the Holt signing really affects whether they will pick one or not). If they think Crable can come in and play OLB and get to the QB like he did in college then maybe they don't go for an OLB early (even though I am a Michigan fan and loved the Crable pick, I am skeptical after all this time of not playing football that he will even make the team). Finally, do they think McKenzie can make a significant contribution at ILB this year? Because if he can't, then I think ILB is a lot bigger need than really has been talked about.

It's hard enough to predict the Pats draft every year but when they have three young players at key positions who all have potential but have not yet been on the field then you just don't know.

Bottom line for me though, unless Kindle is there at 22 I'd like to see them trade down.

BradysKnee
04-21-2010, 08:32 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing a trade down, but I think I'd kill myself if we gave Green Bay another pro bowler lol.

Don Vito
04-21-2010, 10:54 AM
So the draft is tomorrow. We have been projecting and guessing for a year but we all know that what we think is going to happen probably won't. So lets try out some mocks you could see happening that you might not embrace.

1. Tebow
2. Alualu
2. Misi
2. Aaron Hernandez

What would you do if that was our first two rounds?

Wootylicous
04-21-2010, 10:56 AM
I would go apeshit