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JwHoJwEeZy
07-27-2009, 11:34 AM
well first off, i liked the 2009 drafting done by the pats. not only did we secure ourselves THREE 2nd round picks in 2010, but we also got some pretty good steals in the 09 draft as well. Pat Chung is a controversial pick, and obviously made in order to get another hard-hitting safety to replace rodney harrison, but i think Chung will prove to be a starter in a year or 2 and his special teams value will also be valuable (hard hitting and fast). Ron Brace was an excellent pick in my opinion, not only is he a big 6'3 330lbs nose tackle but his skills were put somewhat in the shadows of B.J. Raji, and with Vince Wilfork being a real a-hole and requesting a huge paycheck Brace will be an excellent replacement. Darius Butler was also a great pickup and was arguably the best corner in the draft, and with a very old Shawn Springs could be a great 2nd corner next to Leigh Bodden. Brandon Tate was also an incredible grab and was projected as a 1st rounder until he had a injury and after he is off the PUP list will be a great target for Brady.

JwHoJwEeZy
07-27-2009, 11:42 AM
As for the 2010 Draft: The pats drafting strategy is simple, draft quantity rather then quality --> then sort through the quantity for the great steal and have this steal for very little $. This was seen in the 09 draft where the pats traded down over and over again, praying on other teams desperateness, and getting a bunch of steals and possible starters for a low price tag. However in the 2010 draft, with a 1st, Three 2nd's, and a 3rd; the patriots have all the tools to have an incredible draft. now the patriots have, before the draft even begins, all the picks that they traded down so vigorously to get, so you can imagine that the Pats will change it up in 2010 and keep their 1st rounder and maybe even trade for another 1st-round or earlier 2nd-round pick. They would do this because of their many contact year players who will need quality replacements.

JwHoJwEeZy
07-27-2009, 11:46 AM
If I could have it any way, I'd want the patriots to somehow get Taylor Mays SS of USC. I know this may be a stretch but he is actually tailor fit to be in the Patriots offense. At 6'3 230lbs. is very close to Rodney Harrison's 6'1 220lbs. and the two Strong Safeties share an almost identical playing style. If I was Bellicheck, I would make it my #1 priority in 2010 to acquire Taylor Mays

AntoinCD
07-27-2009, 03:12 PM
well first off, i liked the 2009 drafting done by the pats. not only did we secure ourselves THREE 2nd round picks in 2010, but we also got some pretty good steals in the 09 draft as well. Pat Chung is a controversial pick, and obviously made in order to get another hard-hitting safety to replace rodney harrison, but i think Chung will prove to be a starter in a year or 2 and his special teams value will also be valuable (hard hitting and fast). Ron Brace was an excellent pick in my opinion, not only is he a big 6'3 330lbs nose tackle but his skills were put somewhat in the shadows of B.J. Raji, and with Vince Wilfork being a real a-hole and requesting a huge paycheck Brace will be an excellent replacement. Darius Butler was also a great pickup and was arguably the best corner in the draft, and with a very old Shawn Springs could be a great 2nd corner next to Leigh Bodden. Brandon Tate was also an incredible grab and was projected as a 1st rounder until he had a injury and after he is off the PUP list will be a great target for Brady.

????

I don't think that's really the case here. Wilfork is the prototype for 34 NT in the NFL. He is, if not the best, then top 3 NTs and deserves to be paid. He has also said he is not looking anywhere near Haynesworth type money. I also refer you to Josh Cribbs' case. He didn't show up for OTAs or minicamp. Wilfork protested by not going to OTAs but when manditory workouts started he was there. Wilfork will be in camp working out and helping his team hoping for a deal. Asante Samuel didn't show up when he was looking his money. I think Wilfork has been a professional about the whole situation

FlyingElvis
07-27-2009, 03:32 PM
I agree that Vince has been a true professional with his contract situation. Pay the man his money. V-Weazy and Brace could be a lethal combo for years to come and I want them both.

Great value by pick/round this year and the contracts they command are nice and low. So I agree this year's draft was excellent value-wise. However, until I see a pass rush that generates more than the middle of the pack total of 31 last year I will reserve judgement on the draft. Too many potential pass rushers passed up in all or our draft day trading.

Love the extra 2nd round picks. Total score there, but that depends on the pass rush, too.

Taylor Mays won't be a Pat. He will go too high and NE won't have a dire need there to bother trading up.

Welcome to the fun.

Don Vito
07-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Yeah our saftey situation looks good now, Mays is a beast at FS but we wouldn't use our first pick on a safety yet again. We should look at a pass rusher or a DL if we lose one of them to FA, at least thats how it looks now. OL, CB, WR, and RB could all be needs too.

Nalej
08-10-2009, 07:49 PM
OLB hopefully. Burgess is not a long-term solution.
Well, unless Woods or Crable blow up this year

nepg
08-21-2009, 07:54 AM
Hardy or Selvie could be possibilities if they fall that far.

AntoinCD
08-23-2009, 03:19 PM
Hardy or Selvie could be possibilities if they fall that far.

In my mock I had Hardy going and that would be great as of now. Obviously if AD and Burgess play really well and Crable and/or Woods step it up then pass rusher may not be a top necessity.

Im starting to think if either are available I would take Rolando McLain or Brandon Spikes and have a scary pair of ILBs. All also depends on whether the 3-4 is staying. If we go 4-3 we may need a good WILL.

Outside bets would be on a first round RB like Spiller as well.

nepg
08-25-2009, 12:17 PM
It should probably be one of the receivers or a TE, though. They'll find a stop-gap at WR every year (e.g. Galloway, Lewis) without any problems, but it's worth it to take a shot at someone who could be a beast for 5 or 6 years like Benn, Bryant, Greshem, et al.

AntoinCD
08-26-2009, 10:56 AM
I was thinking along those lines but unless Benn, Bryant or Gresham were to fall then I don't see that being the route. Especially with the Brandon Tate selection this year I think it gives a little more wiggle room to build a real powerhouse defense before the offense needs overhauled

Bigburt63
08-27-2009, 10:18 PM
DL or OLB, possibly even OL, but they seem to have a bunch of young guys they like (Vollmer, guys they drafted this year etc.)

Don Vito
08-28-2009, 11:45 AM
The pass rush clearly needs an impact player added. Merriman is a free agent after this season as well, I wouldn't be opposed to looking his direction if he comes back a beast this year. If Seymour leaves, we are going to need a DE and probably will take one as early as we can. Everyone knows the importance of those players in our defense. I like Chung and I'm happy we picked up a safety, but if we waited until this year then we could've picked up a stud. Berry, Mays, Chad Jones, Morgan Burnett, Reshad Jones...there are some ridiculously talented safeties that will be eligible after this year. I think Chad Jones could be the best pure athlete in college football.

Nalej
10-29-2009, 03:35 PM
OT, DE, OLB, ILB, RB
That's what i think we need to focus on in the upcoming draft

FlyingElvis
10-29-2009, 03:42 PM
OT, DE, OLB, ILB, RB
That's what i think we need to focus on in the upcoming draft

Maroney WILL show he can be the man!!











Wishful thinking can't hurt, right?

ElectricEye
10-29-2009, 08:02 PM
Maroney needs a change of scenery in the worst way. Atlanta would be a great place for him to end up if Turner continues to burn out.

nepg
10-29-2009, 10:18 PM
Ya, I'm done with Maroney. I was a huge fan, and he was the guy I wanted the Pats to draft that year...but I'm done. He might be great somewhere else, but it's time for the Pats to bring someone else in.

If they're in a position to get CJ Spiller, that's who I want in 2010.

All the other weak spots on the team have gotten stronger and stronger as the weeks go by. It's really hard to gauge their real needs.

ElectricEye
10-29-2009, 10:46 PM
CJ Spiller would be a better fit for what we do with the ball. At the very least he would be a competent replacement to Kevin Faulk. I wouldn't take him in the first though. I would rather bolster our line or receiving core, or draft an OLB capable of generating a pass rush.

FlyingElvis
10-30-2009, 09:01 AM
Maroney wouldn't crack the lineup in Atlanta. Norwood is a solid change of pace back and Turner is far from burning out. He is as good as he looked last year. The only difference is the schedule. Playing the AFC West + the Rams & Lions makes it easy to show off your talent. Swapping those scrub teams for the AFC & NFC East makes a world of difference.

Oline & OLB have to be the top picks in 2010. I don't care if it means spending our 1st (#32!!) and Tennessee's 2nd (#33!!) on 2 OLBs to make sure we end up with one solid player for the next decade.

nepg
10-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Tully Banta-Cain and Willie Mcginest are the only OLB's the Patriots have ever drafted that have ended up being regular starters for them. McGinest only had one 10+ sack season (1995). The Patriots just don't draft early enough in the draft to get someone who would fit into what they want to do with the position outside of free agency or developing a late round pick.

Burgess and TBC are becoming more versatile each week. Burgess was brought in late... I think the two are a solid tandem and are getting better. I don't see anyone in the draft that will be available to them who will be able to start over what the Pats already have. The only guy I'd see them taking in the first round is Greg Hardy.

ElectricEye
10-30-2009, 12:19 PM
Tully Banta-Cain and Willie Mcginest are the only OLB's the Patriots have ever drafted that have ended up being regular starters for them. McGinest only had one 10+ sack season (1995). The Patriots just don't draft early enough in the draft to get someone who would fit into what they want to do with the position outside of free agency or developing a late round pick.

Burgess and TBC are becoming more versatile each week. Burgess was brought in late... I think the two are a solid tandem and are getting better. I don't see anyone in the draft that will be available to them who will be able to start over what the Pats already have. The only guy I'd see them taking in the first round is Greg Hardy.

I hope you're wrong. We continue to lag behind other teams in terms of pressuring the quarterback. Burgess and Banta Cain might be versatile, but they aren't starters on a 3-4 team with competent linebackers. We know that. Neither of them played a whole hell of a lot for their respective teams(both of whom had rather weak pass rushers as well) last year. Tully is a useful depth player because he can situationally pass rush, but he isn't useful beyond that. Poor when he's doing anything else than running in the backfield. Pierre Woods isn't a starter for anyone else either. He just isn't all that talented. Shawn Crable hasn't played in two years and it wouldn't surprise me if he never takes a snap for up. Rob Ninkovich isn't Mike Vrabel and we're so desperate for depth that we brought in Junior yet again.

Finding guys late isn't a bad idea, you can do that...but you have to take them. There were guys to be had after the first round last year but we didn't pull the trigger. We came away with an extremely decent class of guys, but we also didn't do anything to fill a legit need where there were guys staring us right in the face. Clay Matthews, Connor Barwin, Everette Brown, Rey Maualuga(who is looking really good at SSLB)...we passed on all of them and all of those guys have gotten playing time already for their respective teams. You can't just go on for years without addressing an issue. We got old fast at the linebacker position and we haven't done anything really besides bring in a bunch of scrubs and hope for the best.

Nalej
10-30-2009, 03:56 PM
I couldn't agree more. An OLB with pass rushing ability is what we need still in the worse way.
Just bc the rookie might not be able to make an immediate impact is no reason to not draft one.
That's what grooming is all about. At least we addressed the issue.

Nalej
10-30-2009, 04:24 PM
Nate Collins UVA DE/DT: What do you guys think of him. I haven't seen him play but he was getting praise in another thread. Sounded like an interesting prospect and someone we could definitely use

proshoota25
11-09-2009, 07:36 PM
i dont know about you guys, but maroney has looked great the last few weeks. hitting the hole hard, not too much dancing, hes been pretty damn good imo.

ElectricEye
11-09-2009, 07:38 PM
i dont know about you guys, but maroney has looked great the last few weeks. hitting the hole hard, not too much dancing, hes been pretty damn good imo.

I saw dancing. He's been better, but he still clicks his heels together(practically) on every run.

Wootylicous
11-09-2009, 07:43 PM
Seriously give me Eric Norwood and I will be happy.

ElectricEye
11-09-2009, 07:45 PM
I would love Eric Norwood. I don't think we'll see him as a good fit though. We've stayed away from a number of guys with that build again and again. Ricky Sapp wouldn't be a bad second round pick for us either if we're going to be stingy about height again, but the main name I want at this point is Jerry Hughes.

Don Vito
11-11-2009, 11:04 AM
Here's what I'd say my wish list looks like right now for OLB, just because that is our biggest need.

1a. Sergio Kindle-He is a freak of nature, big and super athletic. He has been a terrifying pass rusher and has experience at DE as well as LB.

1b. Greg Hardy-I may be a bit biased, but I think Hardy could be a monster for us. He could be the best pass rusher in the nation when 100%, but he is not just a wave rusher. Hardy is great against the run and goes back into coverage a lot, he is a complete player. He doesn't miss tackles and he gets off his blocks. A little testament to how athletic Hardy is, he played a little WR for Ole Miss his freshman and sophmore years and came down with 3 TD catches and even played a year of basketball for us as a frosh where he was the first forward off the bench. He just needs to stay healthy.

3. Everson Griffin*-Everyone knows the physical ability Griffin has, but know he is starting to produce on the field. If he declares he will probably show up to Indy at 6-3 265 running no worse than the mid 4.6s. Dude is a monster.

4. Brandon Graham-Many people don't mention Graham when talking about the top 3-4 OLB prospects, but Graham could be the safest bet out of the talented bunch. He is a well rounded player who has all around production that could stack up with any DE/LB in the nation. People assume he is not physically talented because he isn't 6-5, but Graham is very strong and explosive. Plus we love Michigan linebackers.

5. Derrick Morgan*-Morgan may be the best fit for our defense out of all of these guys, he is so well rounded. He is a very good pass rusher and is great against the run, he also drops back into coverage frequently. Great size, very good athlete, very strong, and gets it done on the field. Could be a Willie McGinnest type for us.

6. Jerry Hughes-Watching Hughes explode off the line right when the ball is snapped is really special. Hughes puts up big time sack numbers and is one of the most feared defensive players in the country. One concern is that he hasn't played against the best competition, but some of the best pass rushers in the NFL came from non BCS conference schools. Another thing is I really haven't seen him do much more than go after the QB, I know he is a great athlete but I don't know how he would hold up against the run in our defense and he really doesn't have much coverage experience from what I've seen. He is a converted RB so he probably has the ability to do it from an athletic standpoint.

7. Eric Norwood-Norwood is another guy who just produces. He isn't very big and he isn't an amazing athlete, but he is a gamer. I can't really see us drafting him, but there is no doubt that in the right defense he will be able to make things happen in the NFL. I think he was born to play in the Steelers scheme.

8. Jermaine Cunningham-Playing opposite Carlos Dunlap may have Cunningham in the shadows, but that is starting to change. He has had a solid year so far and is a big time physical talent, very athletic. He could shoot up draft boards come combine time.

9. Brandon Lang-For a small school, Troy has a pretty good track record when it comes to pass rushers. Many feel that Lang is next in line. I haven't seen too much of Troy, but I do know that Lang is similar to Ware and Umenyiora in that he isn't the biggest guy but he is explosive, strong for his size, and a terror as a pass rusher.

10. Ricky Sapp-Here is another guy with unreal athleticism, the only thing is Sapp doesn't really have the size or strength you look for. He hasn't been a true game changer that everyone thought he would be, Sapp may be one of those players that is a better pro than college player. A transition to OLB in a 3-4 could be what he needs; or he could just be another tall, undersized, freakishly athletic project who struggles to make the transition a la Manny Lawson.

11. George Selvie-This guy has seen his stock skyrocket then plummet. Selvie had a monster sophmore year, but when teams started paying more attention to him he really quieted down. He could be another guy who once he gets to the pros and isn't constantly facing double teams, he could really turn it on.

There are a ton of ridiculous talents at our biggest position of need in this class, we need to take one early this year. Our defense was at its best when we had that ridiculous pass rush of Vrable, McGinnest, Colvin, Bruschi coming inside, and Seymour from the line. Now our pass rush is pretty poor, we need a big time young talent who can get to the QB but is also rounded enough to play in our defense. If we had our own Ware, Umenyiora, Freeney, or Harrison our defense would be filthy.

Another guy I really like is O'Brien Schofield out of Wisconsin, he isn't really viewed as a top pass rushing prospect but I think he would fit in pretty well here. Solid pass rusher with a nice motor, decent size, and great athleticism.

ElectricEye
11-11-2009, 08:05 PM
That's a great post. I'm intrigued as hell by Derrick Morgan. I'm not sure he declares because he's back to being under the radar again, but if he does and his stock stays where he is, we would have a chance to nail a top ten talent in the second round. Excellent fit in a 3-4, or anywhere really.

One of the appealing things about drafting a true pass rusher is that it opens up our 4-3 looks so much more. We won't just have bulky guys getting off the edge. Maybe that'll be a selling point to Belichick.

FlyingElvis
11-12-2009, 09:26 AM
It is a great post. One that feeds my excitement over a bunch of guys we will end up passing up over and over. Thanks. :rolleyes:

hahahaa.

nepg
11-12-2009, 11:08 AM
Eh...the only two that get me excited are Hardy and Griffen.

ElectricEye
11-12-2009, 12:21 PM
With Hardy's injury, we could have a legit shot at him. This injury in conjunction with the leg scares me, but when he's on the field you know it. Could be some safer picks out there though.

ElectricEye
11-13-2009, 12:48 PM
So I have a name that's absolutely perfect as far as second round right tackles go; Trent Williams. If Anthony Davis and one of Bryan Bulaga or Bruce Campbell declare, he's probably out of the first round mix entirely. He's proved this year that he's not a left tackle at any level, but he's an athletic guy who is completely comfortable and projects fine to the right side of the line. Exactly what we need. If he were to be around for one of our second round picks, it would be a sexy pick.

nepg
11-13-2009, 02:22 PM
I think I'd be OK with that one. As a second rounder, they'd have him locked up for 4 years on the cheap side. Plenty of time to figure out the Light/Kazcur situation.

I'm pretty interested to see if Koppen doesn't play this week. I'm almost looking forward to Connelly starting so we can see what we've got there. Depending on Bussey (who I really liked at G coming out of Louisville) and Ohrnberger, the Pats might not have any interior OL needs at all if Connelly can get the job done at C.

I think the Pats will keep going for a veteran cast-off for their short yardage RB, but I wouldn't mind them drafting CJ Spiller or Noel Devine in the first (what I'd like to see them do either way) and Toby Gerhart in the late second (or a little later)...

FlyingElvis
11-13-2009, 02:49 PM
My biggest question is how much impact will the 3-4 to 4-3 switch have on our drafting?

If we truly are pushing towards more of a 4-3 base, will the draft reflect that? And if it does, how will that affect the prospects we may target?

Wootylicous
11-13-2009, 02:56 PM
I kind of want a guard in the 2nd round. Iupati like.

Don Vito
11-13-2009, 04:08 PM
I kind of want a guard in the 2nd round. Iupati like.

I like Iupati, he is a talented dude. Any time you have an OL prospect who is an athletic guy with size and that mauler attitude in the run game (Mankins, Neal 5 years ago), he has a good shot of working out. Possibly my favorite line prospect in the country for us is Ohio St. center Mike Brewster. He has good size, is athletic, has a mean streak, and offers some versatility if we want to move him around. He is only a sophmore and has been a center there the whole time, but he arrived as a tackle and has the ability to just be a monster.

nepg
11-13-2009, 07:29 PM
My biggest question is how much impact will the 3-4 to 4-3 switch have on our drafting?

If we truly are pushing towards more of a 4-3 base, will the draft reflect that? And if it does, how will that affect the prospects we may target?

They'll always be a 3-4 base. It gives them far more versatility. It won't affect anything, anyway. They need the same types of players for either package.

Nalej
11-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Hughes and Kindle are my favorites. A 34 DE and ILB would solify this D for years

Don Vito
11-14-2009, 08:53 PM
How would use guys feel about McCluster in the second or third round? It was brought up in the thread about him in the Draft thread. We need another weapon on offense and I think he could be a real nice potential replacement for Faulk, he is a receiver but Ole Miss uses him at RB and he had almost 300 rushing yards with 4 TD's today.

ElectricEye
11-14-2009, 10:58 PM
How would use guys feel about McCluster in the second or third round? It was brought up in the thread about him in the Draft thread. We need another weapon on offense and I think he could be a real nice potential replacement for Faulk, he is a receiver but Ole Miss uses him at RB and he had almost 300 rushing yards with 4 TD's today.

Don't like McCluster. His game doesn't translate cleanly and while he's exciting, he'll kill you sometimes as well.

Trivia
11-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Pats draft great people every year and i know the this will be another year that they will grab some great players.

Babylon
11-20-2009, 04:25 PM
Barring them trading down a half dozen times in the first two rounds my top 4 picks would be:

Jerry Hughes
Brandon Graham
Kris Odowd
Toby Gerhart

descendency
11-21-2009, 02:27 PM
If I could have 5 (reasonable, I'd say) players:
1. Rolando McClain ILB
2a. Jermaine Gresham TE/Red Zone Threat
2b. Sergio Kindle OLB (or Ricky Sapp, although I think he plays girly at times)
2c. Toby Gerhardt RB/FB
4. Alex Carrington 34 DE

Don Vito
11-21-2009, 10:07 PM
If I could have 5 (reasonable, I'd say) players:
1. Rolando McClain ILB
2a. Jermaine Gresham TE/Red Zone Threat
2b. Sergio Kindle OLB (or Ricky Sapp, although I think he plays girly at times)
2c. Toby Gerhardt RB/FB
4. Alex Carrington 34 DE

If we ended up with McClain, Gresham, Kindle, and Gerhart that would be absolutely perfect. I don't know much about Carrington but we need an end thats for sure.

nepg
11-24-2009, 10:48 AM
I love McClain, but that dude's a Top 10 pick at worst. Pretty safe to say the Pats have no chance to draft him. And he's probably the only ILB I'd say they'll draft... No one else is a definite upgrade over Guyton or McKenzie.

I don't thinkt he Pats will ever draft a player from Texas, and while 2009 gave them a lot of breathing room as far as being able to take a chance on players, I don't know that they'll go for Gresham in such talent-rich draft.

Love Gerhart, though. Would really like to see them grab Gerhart and pair him with a guy like Noel Devine. Still, the second round pick I want the most is Danario Alexander.

ElectricEye
11-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Kindle won't be a mid second rounder and McClain will be long gone by the time we're picking. Both of those guys are first rounders and will probably go before our first. Like the Gresham pick. We do need a true redzone threat at tight end.

descendency
11-25-2009, 01:27 PM
Um, weren't people saying the same about Maualuga and Clay Matthews last year? What about James Laurinitus. Paul Posluszny. and so on. McClain is not Aaron Curry, I could see him falling because ILB will take a backseat to DEs, Rush Linebackers (can McClain play that position?), CBs, QBs, and LTs.

Don't be shocked to see him fall to NE.

Gresham is the best TE in the draft and is clearly the redzone threat NE needs.

I don't know if NE will go after a LB from Texas, but I see him as the best possible 34 OLB in the draft. Some might disagree, but I think he's a pure OLB and not just a rush end.

I'm not a huge fan of Gerhart because I'm not sure his skills translate to the NFL. I put him there because I think he could do some power rushing that NE doesn't really have.

AntoinCD
11-26-2009, 04:49 AM
Um, weren't people saying the same about Maualuga and Clay Matthews last year? What about James Laurinitus. Paul Posluszny. and so on. McClain is not Aaron Curry, I could see him falling because ILB will take a backseat to DEs, Rush Linebackers (can McClain play that position?), CBs, QBs, and LTs.

I'm not a huge fan of Gerhart because I'm not sure his skills translate to the NFL. I put him there because I think he could do some power rushing that NE doesn't reallyhave.

I don't think Clay Matthews or Poz were ever rated quite as highly as McClain and both Maualuga and Laurinaitis both had legitimate concerns. Maualuga had concerns over being able to play 3 downs and Laurinaitis couldn't shed blockers. McClain has neither of those concerns. If were talking about drafting ILBs for a 3/4 how about saying P Willy or Jerod Mayo???

I wouldn't want to draft Gerhart eiterthough unless at a minimum it was the last 2nd although ideally trade back to the third for him. I kinda see him as a poor mans Brian Leonard

nepg
11-26-2009, 06:56 AM
He's better than Brian Leonard, and why wouldn't you want Brian Leonard on the Pats anyway? Guy does it all and would be an amazing fit. Gerhart compares pretty well to Steven Jackson.

AntoinCD
11-27-2009, 07:30 AM
I would gladly take Brian Leonard for the Pats but I wouldn't use a second rounder to get him. And Gerhart is like a poor, poor, poor, poor mans Steven Jackson

Nalej
11-30-2009, 10:03 PM
Holy **** we need OL help.

Nalej
12-11-2009, 10:18 AM
First 2 rounds: This is what I want

1- CJ Spiller RB Clemson
2a- S. Kindle OLB Texas
2b- A. Jones DE Syracuse
2c- V. Ducasse OG Massachusetts

or

1-B. Spikes ILB Florida
2a- S. Kindle OLB Texas
2b- N. Devine RB WV
2c- V.Ducasse OG Mass

or

1- J. Hughes OLB TCU
2a- B. Spikes ILB Florida
2b- A. Jones DE Syracuse
2c- V.Ducasse OG Massachusetts



I think you guys get the picture. Something in that combination would be great.

Wootylicous
12-11-2009, 11:09 AM
I prefer Norwood to Kindle. But yeah I get it we need OLB badly and freakin OL help. Iupati would be nice

ElectricEye
12-11-2009, 12:25 PM
1- J. Hughes OLB TCU
2a- B. Spikes ILB Florida
2b- A. Jones DE Syracuse
2c- V.Ducasse OG Massachusetts



I think you guys get the picture. Something in that combination would be great.

That would be my pick. If we could get that haul I would be happy. Puts a lot of guys who don't deserve to be here out on their asses. Hell, I would be happy if we took another OLB over Spikes. I'm a lot more comfortable with Guyton being a half starter in our hybrid defense than I am with Pierre Woods/Derrick Burgess. Norwood/Kindle and Hughes would make me a happy, happy camper. Drafting Spikes over another OLB wouldn't make much sense either to me IMO.

Nalej
12-11-2009, 04:39 PM
We can't rely on J. Seau for depth forever.
McKenzie will add depth but I'll believe it once I see him on the field.
I thought Crable would of gave us depth but he went on IR again
Look at what Rey M is doing in Cincy--exactly what he could of being doing with us
Grabbing a Kindle, Hardy, Norwood or any other stud OLB along with Spikes would shore up our D.
Who's to say we couldn't grab, say, a G. Selvie at the end of round 2... ?
Kindle/Hardy/Norwood/Graham, B. Spikes and Selvie. Add in a DE or OG and my day would be made

descendency
12-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Who's to say we couldn't grab, say, a G. Selvie at the end of round 2... ?

Right school, wrong guy. JPP please.

TitleTown088
12-11-2009, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=Nalej;1918588
1- J. Hughes OLB TCU
[/QUOTE]

Stay away. He's ours.

Nalej
12-11-2009, 04:59 PM
Right school, wrong guy. JPP please.

Sure. The point still stands that 2 OLBs in the 1st 2 rounds would still make sense

Stay away. He's ours.

Negative Ghostrider

ElectricEye
12-11-2009, 09:48 PM
Stay away. He's ours.

Nope. You already screwed us out of the OLB I wanted last year.

Razor
12-21-2009, 02:38 PM
The Patriots draft of my dreams would be something like:

1. Corey Wootton
2 a. Ricky Sapp/Sergio Kindle
2 b. Noel Devine
2 c. Best wideout available

Also, how do you feel about trading our 2011 Raiders pick to get a high pick in the 2010 draft to get a player like McClain? Personally, I wouldn't mind at all..

FlyingElvis
12-21-2009, 02:44 PM
We need too much help at OLB/DE and Oline to spend a 1st on an ILB. Sadly, we passed on the stud ILB to pair with Mayo last year. Then we passed on him again. Then again, and again. :(

Razor
12-21-2009, 02:49 PM
Well, that's true. But a player like McClain (assuming he declares) doesn't come along very often. Imo he's a better prospect than Willis ever was, and just the thought of him and Mayo playing together... Well, I'll spare you the details! :D

FlyingElvis
12-21-2009, 03:02 PM
the details are probably similar to how I felt about Maualuga last year. lol

nepg
12-21-2009, 07:27 PM
The Patriots draft of my dreams would be something like:

1. Corey Wootton
2 a. Ricky Sapp/Sergio Kindle
2 b. Noel Devine
2 c. Best wideout available

Also, how do you feel about trading our 2011 Raiders pick to get a high pick in the 2010 draft to get a player like McClain? Personally, I wouldn't mind at all..

I love McClain, but if they can get up in the area they'll need to get to to take him, they'll be in Eric Berry, Dez Bryant, Russell Okung territory... McClain is going ~Top 5. He's not better than Willis, but he's probably better than Mayo.

ElectricEye
12-21-2009, 09:34 PM
The Patriots draft of my dreams would be something like:

1. Corey Wootton
2 a. Ricky Sapp/Sergio Kindle
2 b. Noel Devine
2 c. Best wideout available

Also, how do you feel about trading our 2011 Raiders pick to get a high pick in the 2010 draft to get a player like McClain? Personally, I wouldn't mind at all..

I love McClain, but we would be trading away a chance at a future replacement for Randy Moss. AJ Green and Julio Jones will be lurking around where the Raiders are picking next year.

As far as that goes, give me Jerry Hughes over Sapp/Kindle. Probably wouldn't want any of those players, actually. Wooten is a nice player, but DE isn't as big of a need for us as OLB is right now. Noel Devine...I don't really want any part of. Maybe, I guess, but I don't know about him.

AntoinCD
12-22-2009, 04:09 AM
I'm really starting to hope that defensive line isn't addressed early this year. A rotation of Wilfork, Warren, Green, Wright, Pryor, Brace should be good assuming they are all back. Players like Corey Wootton and Arthur Jones etc are good players but way down the list of priorities.

First and foremost at least one pass rusher is needed. Be it OLBs like Hughes, Kindle, Graham etc or DEs like Romeus, Griffen, Dunlap etc.

After that offensive line help is needed. I wouldn't be opposed to Mike Iupati so he could replace Stephen Neal. Then either Light or Vollmer play RT instead of Kaczur gives an overall better line.

Jahvid Best is someone I would target in the middle of the second. Not so long ago he was rated higher than Spiller and concussions and poor play from Cal in general has seen him fall.

Finally I would not like to see WR taken this year. If Aiken and Tate can get more comfortable in the offense they will remove pressure from Welker and Moss and in the 2011 draft there is at least 3 WRs better than any on this draft in my opinion and we have 2 1sts

Razor
12-22-2009, 07:17 AM
I love McClain, but we would be trading away a chance at a future replacement for Randy Moss. AJ Green and Julio Jones will be lurking around where the Raiders are picking next year.

As far as that goes, give me Jerry Hughes over Sapp/Kindle. Probably wouldn't want any of those players, actually. Wooten is a nice player, but DE isn't as big of a need for us as OLB is right now. Noel Devine...I don't really want any part of. Maybe, I guess, but I don't know about him.

That is also my only concern about trading that pick, since I'm very high on AJ Green. When it comes to Devine vs. Best, I would love to get Best. I just don't think he'll available at that point. I can't see how DE isn't a need for us. Seymours departure left a giant hole on that right side, and I don't see anybody on the roster that can fill that void. Wootton would be a great 5 tech and has great size for the position.

ElectricEye
12-22-2009, 10:42 AM
That is also my only concern about trading that pick, since I'm very high on AJ Green. When it comes to Devine vs. Best, I would love to get Best. I just don't think he'll available at that point. I can't see how DE isn't a need for us. Seymours departure left a giant hole on that right side, and I don't see anybody on the roster that can fill that void. Wootton would be a great 5 tech and has great size for the position.

Wooten would have to learn the position, and there's some serious discussion about if he's the type of player who can do that. I like the guy, but he might be more of a 4-3 LE. I agree that DE is a need with Seymour's departure and Warren not being able to stay healthy, but we've got some nice young pieces to sustain us to the point where we can afford to be patient. Myron Pryor has made plays against the run every single time he's been in the game and is in serious consideration for more playing time next year. Brace hasn't played much, but looked fairly solid last week and is still a nice guy to have around. I would love to have a concrete starter on the other side of Warren, but it isn't worth spending a first round pick on when you have the ****** ass linebackers we have at the moment. A rotation of guys and maybe spending one of our second rounders on Tyson Alualu, Brandon Deaderick, or Alex Carrington later in the draft would be a better allocation of resources.

On a side tangent, welcome to the forum. We need as many Patriots fans as we can get. Seems to be a bit of an influx as of late.

FlyingElvis
12-23-2009, 04:23 PM
It's a super slow week this week and will be next week, too. So for my own entertainment and sanity, I have been pouring over the potential players we could draft and their respective positions in various mocks. Fun stuff, that, since it always varies wildly. :D

But the more I look at the DE/OLB pass rush prospects, the more I start to think that BB & the FO really were saving/stockpiling picks for a much better pass rush class this year. There seem to be quite a few more guys that are considered very good pass rush prospects this year.

It's entirely possible we could snag a guy like Kindle/Wootton/Weatherspoon with our first and still come away with the sliding Hardy in the second. Follow that up with a G (or tackle if one slides) and whatever other position we like with the final 2nd round pick and things could look pretty damn good for the pass rush in 2010.

Any chance one of the top centers fall to us in round 4? I'm thinking we would need to "overdraft" one with our last 2nd or trade down (per usual) into the 3rd for Walton, Tennant or O'Dowd if he declares.

Razor
12-23-2009, 04:36 PM
Finally, somebody mentioned a center! :) I've been very critical about Koppens play all season, it's nowhere near as good as a couple of seasons ago. I also think that pass rush should and will be addressed early in the draft, but it's important to remember that the pass rush starts with the big guys up front. With the current two-gap system top end talent is a necessity and I would like to have that addressed either in the first or the second round. Also, a new DC would be nice..

Nalej
12-23-2009, 05:48 PM
I agree that the pass rush gets its help from a dline that absorbs the blocks.
Our dline play is better then our linebackers right now though.
So while both need to be addressed- lets not give the linebackers too much credit.

1-Pass rusher
2-DLine
2-OLine
2-BPA

That would be my ideal 1st two rounds.
Unless Spikes drops with many passrushers still available- I'd love him next to Mayo

Razor
12-24-2009, 04:14 AM
I agree that the pass rush gets its help from a dline that absorbs the blocks.
Our dline play is better then our linebackers right now though.
So while both need to be addressed- lets not give the linebackers too much credit.

1-Pass rusher
2-DLine
2-OLine
2-BPA

That would be my ideal 1st two rounds.
Unless Spikes drops with many passrushers still available- I'd love him next to Mayo
That look like a good draft right there. I wouldn't mind if we addressed ILB in the second round. As much as I like Guyton, I just don't think he's good enough as a starter. But would, however, be on heck of a backup! Btw, when people in here say OL, what do you mean? I'm under the impression that most guys mean OT, but for me that's not a need after watching Vollmer play this season. That guy has been a beast at both LT and RT! But if there's a center or a guard that fits our scheme, then I'm all for it! :)
Edit: And I would love for us to draft a top wideout. Moss is a great teacher and this offense could use some more option. I know that Tate has great potential and Edelman has exeeded all expectations, but once Moss is gone (and he might be in 2011) this offense will take a very big hit.

FlyingElvis
12-24-2009, 09:55 AM
OL is all spots on the offensive line.

Neal and Koppen need replacing so those two spots are the biggest needs. Light is getting older and is slated to make a ton of money over the next 2 years so drafting his replacement (or a new RT so Vollmer can move to LT) is also a need. I don't think it's a pressing need for this draft but if the players fall in a way that makes one of the OT prospects the best available at one of our draft slots then we should take him.

So OL for our purposes in draft discussion = C, RG, RT

Nalej
12-24-2009, 10:00 AM
Exactly. OLine means C RG and RT

I think we can pick up a C in the 4 or 5th so a OT in rd 2 would be nice.
As far as a WR- I'd love if we picked up a Lafell or Benn if they slipped into the 2nd
Not at price of passing on a pass rusher though

Yes, Guyton would be a helleva rotational guy but not an every down starter

Bigburt63
12-24-2009, 04:03 PM
I agree that the pass rush gets its help from a dline that absorbs the blocks.
Our dline play is better then our linebackers right now though.
So while both need to be addressed- lets not give the linebackers too much credit.

1-Pass rusher
2-DLine
2-OLine
2-BPA

That would be my ideal 1st two rounds.
Unless Spikes drops with many passrushers still available- I'd love him next to Mayo

Pass rusher
Another LB (ILB or OLB, depending upon who is available)
OL (G/C type, we have 3 tackles at the moment)
WR, we have 2 legit, Edelman is a work in process, and Aiken is ok.

Our pass rush has killed our defense this year. The secondary is better than they look, but nobody can cover for 6 sec every play. Banta-Cain has 8.5 sacks on the year, but 5 came in the 2 games against the bills, and 2 more came in one game against the jets. So 7 sacks in 3 games, and 1.5 in 11 others. I want to see Thomas put in the game simply to rush the passer; forget all this 2 down stuff, just put him in and say get to the QB. Our OLB's are Woods, Thomas, Ninkovich, Crable(IR), Banta-Cain, Burgess. Thomas and Burgess I expect to be gone, Crable hasn't been "healthy" (I think they keep stashing him on the IR), Woods is ok against the run, but no pass rush, and Ninkovich is probably just a ST player.

ILB we have Mayo and Guyton, who are good. Guyton can serve to be a rotational guy, but I like his upside, and he seems to be improving. Mackenzie is a complete unknown, and other than that, its Seau and Alexander (ST player). Not a top need IMO, but a need non-the-less.

OL we need some depth. Neal is always beat up, but when healthy is probably our most consistent lineman. Mankins better be resigned as he has been the only consistently healthy lineman for the past few years (knock on wood). Koppen and Light are above-average, not studs, but we can live without studs. Vollmer is just a house, and has a very high ceiling. I want a line of Vollmer, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Light next year (depending upon salary etc.) The experiment of Kazcur at guard might be good, leaving us open to drafting a tackle instead of a guard. Kazcur is fine in a small area, but its in an open area where he has to worry about a speed rush, and then becomes vulnerable to being overpowered.

Outside of Moss and Welker, who do we have at WR? Aiken is a journeyman, albeit a serviceable one, but he is more of a 4th/5th option than a 3rd. Edelman is a Welker clone, and again is not much of a 3rd option, plus he is still very raw. In '07, teams had to at least honor Stallworth on the other side of Moss, if you didn't he could go off. His presence was as good as him actually catching the ball(.....kinda....worded that wierdly). Moss is getting up there, and while I don't expect him to leave in the next couple years, he and Welker cannot carry this offense with Brady forever. I know Tate is on the roster, but he is still a relatively unknown.

DL is not a need IMO. Most teams don't have 3 studs on their DL. Green (if re-signed) and Wright are capable of taking one spot, with Wilfork (if re-signed) and Warren (stud) filling out the line. Factor in Brace, Pryor, and Richard (practice squad whom the coaches really like) and we have some young players and a very good solid core of DL. ....With that said, BB will probably draft a top DL in the first round and make me look like a jerk.

Bigburt63
12-24-2009, 04:13 PM
Also, look for corner late. Bodden is on a one year deal, as is Springs. That leaves us with Butler, Wilhite, Wheatley...I would assume that a veteran type (or 2) would be signed, but a mid-later round might be an option as well.

TE. Watson (and Baker I believe) are in their walk years, and we have no other TE.

Razor
12-25-2009, 02:59 AM
I believe that Springs still has one year left on his deal, so does Baker. I hope that they re-sign Bodden, since he's played really well for us this year. Springs... not so much. There's some speculation that Javier Arenas is going to fall on draft day, just like DJ Moore did this year. If he does I hope we pick him. I think he will be a really good fit for this defense as a nickel corner. Bodden, Butler, Wilhite, Arenas and Wheatley (if he doesn't get cut, I think he might). That would be an excellent secondary if we had some pass rush.
As for DL not being a need, I'm a "the battle is won or lost in the trenches"-kinda guy, so I really hope they use a first or second round pick on that DL.
How do you feel about Iupati as a guard in BBs scheme? Do you think he'll fit? I've heard that he should be good value in the middle of the first round, but he'll probably end up sliding because the positional value wouldn't be there.

Edit: Btw, merry christmas. :)

Nalej
12-25-2009, 07:50 AM
Iupati would be great... so would V. Ducassi (sp?) from UMass. Both are versatile enough to play RG or RT and BB loves versatility. I'd be happy if we grabbed one of those two come draft day

Merry Xmas to all you Pat fans. You guys are all in my top 5...somehow :D

Bigburt63
12-26-2009, 12:00 PM
I believe that Springs still has one year left on his deal, so does Baker. I hope that they re-sign Bodden, since he's played really well for us this year. Springs... not so much. There's some speculation that Javier Arenas is going to fall on draft day, just like DJ Moore did this year. If he does I hope we pick him. I think he will be a really good fit for this defense as a nickel corner. Bodden, Butler, Wilhite, Arenas and Wheatley (if he doesn't get cut, I think he might). That would be an excellent secondary if we had some pass rush.
As for DL not being a need, I'm a "the battle is won or lost in the trenches"-kinda guy, so I really hope they use a first or second round pick on that DL.
How do you feel about Iupati as a guard in BBs scheme? Do you think he'll fit? I've heard that he should be good value in the middle of the first round, but he'll probably end up sliding because the positional value wouldn't be there.

Edit: Btw, merry christmas. :)

I'm a big trenches guy (having played there) myself. It's just that the DL "need" is far down the list of holes that we need to fill this offseason. Seymour would absolutely have helped, no doubt. But a pass rush cannot be this anemic without having multiple parts needing upgrades.


Edit: Happy Holidays to everyone!

Post 1000

Razor
12-26-2009, 01:48 PM
I But a pass rush cannot be this anemic without having multiple parts needing upgrades.
I agree 100 %, so of course I want BB to draft an OLB. But I would really like an alround improvement of that front seven. Even though it has looked horrible for the most part of the season, I feel that this defense is only a stud OLB and RDE away from being elite. Wheter BB drafts an OLB in the first or the second round doesn't matter to much, as long as he drafts some pass rush before the third round! :)

Nalej
12-27-2009, 08:45 AM
I agree with the above statement. We're so close to be great.
Some DLine help and a stud OLB would do wonders. B. Spikes would help too :D

nepg
12-28-2009, 10:09 AM
I don't see DL as a big need for them. Wright has done really well, and they have an abundance of developing depth. Obviously, if they have a chance to grab a good one in a favorable spot, they should, but they shouldn't go out of their way to do so.

OG is the huge need. They also need a RB, WR, TE, OLB, OT, C, and QB.

I do not like Brando Spikes for the Pats. In the first round, that would be a wasted pick, imo. There are too many great options for them at that point. If he falls to the back end of the second round...maybe.

With the way TBC has played, the need at OLB is a bit less urgent than it had been.

I'd focus on WR, RB, OLB, and an OL with the first four picks (BPA order).

descendency
12-31-2009, 08:02 AM
With the way TBC has played, the need at OLB is a bit less urgent than it had been.

Dude, the Patriots are abysmal at rushing the passer, pocket destruction, and the like.

They need a 34 DE, 34 OLB, and arguably a 34 ILB. That front 7 needs a retooling in many spots. It's abysmal at times.

The Patriots secondary could be among the best in the NFL in 2 or 3 years if they can get some pass rush.

The Patriots need some consistency on offense more than players. A player like CJ Spiller would be excellent though. However, it would put an end to Benjarvus Green-Ellis likely, as the Patriots already have 5 RBs.

I like the ideas of Vladimir Ducasse (OG/OT UMass), Mike Iupati (OG Idaho), Jerry Hughes (OLB TCU), Jason Peirre Paul (OLB South Florida), Rolando McClain (LB Alabama) to name a few.

FlyingElvis
12-31-2009, 09:20 AM
^ Agreed. On everything except the 5 RB comment. I don't see any way Fred Taylor returns so there's Spiller's spot without losing BJGE. In fact, I think Fred Taylor may retire outright when he has trouble finding a home next season.

Still hoping the Jags draft pick trade works out great for both teams. Cox has played very well for Jax and I think the Jags second round pick could land us Hardy at a great value.

ElectricEye
01-01-2010, 07:55 PM
Read Scott's Spiller interview. I have mixed feelings about drafting him, but read that and tell me he doesn't sound like he wouldn't fit in with the type of culture we have.

AntoinCD
01-02-2010, 03:16 AM
Lol yeah he didn't give one proper straight answer. I change my mind on Spiller nearly every day but I think if he's there when we pick(doubtful at best) he has to be the pick. There is not a lot between the top pass rushers between the late first-mid second and as was mentioned we could land someone like Hardy in the second. Some good options though

Razor
01-02-2010, 12:29 PM
I wouldn't like it if he goes to the Pats in the first round. There's a couple of reasons for that:
- RB is not a first round need for the Patriots
- Jahvid Best is far better value (and reward I suspect, but time will tell I guess).
- I'm not buying into that ".. Lord and Savior.." crap, and neither is BB. I don't mind if players are a bit cocky, as long as they're honest about it.

Now, one can't argue with his production. But I wouldn't want him anyway. Too many needs on defense, and history has shown us that it's relatively easy to pick up a good (not elite) back in the later rounds.

nepg
01-02-2010, 08:26 PM
I'd take Noel Devine over both Spiller and Best. I'd take Spiller over Best any day of the week, though. I don't see any team willing to draft Best in the first round (possibly at all) due to his concussions (dude did the stanky leg when he jumped and landed on his head...he's not going to last long). Spiller is very versatile and could replace Kevin Faulk down the line. He can return kicks, line up in the slot, and is a touchdown waiting to happen on any given play.

I would not be opposed to Spiller being the first round pick. There's not a lot of positions that you can say "aren't a first round need" with the Pats because they have 4 picks in the first two rounds, and a lot of positions are needs with those first 4 picks and it doesn't really matter which order the positions are drafted in.

At this point, I could care less if they keep BJGE because they never use him anyway.

Razor
01-03-2010, 06:18 AM
Sorry, I ****** up my post. I meant that Best would be far better value if Patriots selected him in the second round - just didn't write it. Sorry. I just think we need more talent on defense, and that's why I don't think RB is a first round need. There's only two(three) offensive position I would say the Pats can take in the first; OT/OG and WR. This might seem odd, but this is a passing team first and foremost and they don't have a decent third reciever or anyone that can take over when Moss decides to leave/retire. So if somebdoy like Dez Bryant is available, I'd take him. The same goes for a player like Anthony Davis, even though both are longshots to be available when we pick.

nepg
01-03-2010, 09:05 AM
I'm starting to hop on the Iupati with the first pick wagon. Stick him opposite Mankins at RG with Vollmer at LT, and all of a sudden, the Pats have a mauling offensive line that can still do the finesse stuff.

Razor
01-03-2010, 09:44 AM
Yeah, that would be a nice pick too. We stille have problems on RT and C. Koppen isn't what he used to be, and Kaczur is a liability in pass protection. The only guys on the current roster that I feel good about on OL is Vollmer and Mankins. Light and Neal are pass their prime, Kaczur and Koppen never reached their prime and probably never will. But still, we need an influx of talent on defense, particularly in the front seven. RDE, ILB, and 2x OLB would be nice. The only thing is, that if they all get picked in the 2010 draft they will probably all be FAs at the same time.

Nalej
01-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Yeah, that would be a nice pick too. We stille have problems on RT and C. Koppen isn't what he used to be, and Kaczur is a liability in pass protection. The only guys on the current roster that I feel good about on OL is Vollmer and Mankins. Light and Neal are pass their prime, Kaczur and Koppen never reached their prime and probably never will. But still, we need an influx of talent on defense, particularly in the front seven. RDE, ILB, and 2x OLB would be nice. The only thing is, that if they all get picked in the 2010 draft they will probably all be FAs at the same time.

My thoughts exactly. What I like most about CJ Spiller is... and no one's said this yet...
Our return game ******* blows. Not only can he be our future Faulk and possibly lead back...
He will be a KR/PR... and instantly improve that.
M. Slater was suppose to bring that to our club but our ST returns have sucked ever since E. Hobbs was traded away

ElectricEye
01-03-2010, 07:28 PM
For the record, I like Jahvid Best a LOT better than Spiller. Spiller is overrated and always has been. Best is a much better natural runner.

Razor
01-08-2010, 01:59 PM
How do you guys feel about drafting Mike Williams in, let's say, the fourth or fifth round? He has more talent than most of the other prospects and if anyone can control him it's BB and that locker room. I could see it happen, how about you?

nepg
01-08-2010, 03:45 PM
For the record, I like Jahvid Best a LOT better than Spiller. Spiller is overrated and always has been. Best is a much better natural runner.

The problem with Best is that he'll have a very, very short NFL career.

ElectricEye
01-08-2010, 08:05 PM
The problem with Best is that he'll have a very, very short NFL career.

There's not much to back that up outside of the one injury he has had. The same can be said for any smaller back. He's roughly the same size as Spiller and has been able to take more carries thus far, see no reason for that trend not to continue.

Bigburt63
01-08-2010, 08:52 PM
I'll agree with you to a point. Injuries can (and will) pile up for any RB, its just a matter of how you view head injuries for RB's. He had a fairly serious head injury, and those are the types of injuries that can happen easier and easier as time (and the # of injuries) go on.

nepg
01-09-2010, 07:19 AM
There's not much to back that up outside of the one injury he has had. The same can be said for any smaller back. He's roughly the same size as Spiller and has been able to take more carries thus far, see no reason for that trend not to continue.
He's had multiple concussions. Lots of players have multiple concussions, but not many get flat-out KO'd like that. Once you get knocked out, it's pretty much over...you've lost durability, and are, 100%, injury prone.

Wouldn't touch that guy with a pick before the 4th round. The reason he declared for the draft is because there's no way he'd make it through next season.

FlyingElvis
01-13-2010, 09:50 PM
In the thread from Scott's scouting report on Tebow:

Keep a very close eye on New England...

And yes, he's talking round one. Linked (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1970016#post1970016)


My post before Scott said this:
The responses to this kid are pretty wild in how drastically they fluctuate.

As many needs as NE has and as much as I'd like to see a center like Tennant or O'Dowd with NE's second round pick (#53?), I would be thrilled to give Tebow a shot to learn behind Brady/Hoyer and be a contributor elsewhere in the meantime.

I doubt he's available there, though.

And after he said it:
As long as it doesn't cost the Pats a shot at a legit pass rushing talent. I might break my t.v. if we see another draft where all OLB prospects are passed on over and over.

Tebow
Spikes
Sapp
O'Dowd or even Hardy

I could get behind something like that.

I would be pretty excited to see Tebow in NE. When our round 1 pick (#23) comes up I'd hate to pass on a guy like Kindle and miss him by pick 44 but there are enough pass rush prospects that we could pull it off.



Thoughts?

cvv84
01-13-2010, 09:58 PM
In the thread from Scott's scouting report on
I would be pretty excited to see Tebow in NE. When our round 1 pick (#23) comes up I'd hate to pass on a guy like Kindle and miss him by pick 44 but there are enough pass rush prospects that we could pull it off.

Thoughts?

Pats pick 22nd. Packers pick 23rd.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/04/2010-nfl-draft-order/

FlyingElvis
01-13-2010, 10:25 PM
I looked quickly and apparently the good folks at Walter Football had it wrong.

Nalej
01-14-2010, 01:39 AM
No ***** way we take Tebow over Kindle/Hughes/Sapp or even Spikes
If we want to take a fly on Tebow- it better be at the end of the 2nd AT THE EARLIEST

ElectricEye
01-14-2010, 01:43 AM
No ***** way we take Tebow over Kindle/Hughes/Sapp or even Spikes
If we want to take a fly on Tebow- it better be at the end of the 2nd AT THE EARLIEST

A very big fat bowl of this.

AntoinCD
01-14-2010, 04:25 AM
I have said before that Tebow would be a great fit in NE however if it is him or a stud pass rusher then it's not een debatable. However I would gladly have a draft of Tebow, Kindle/Hughes/Sapp etc, Ducasse, Spikes. Obviously it may not fall that way but if we an get Tebow a pass rusher, an offensive lineman then BPA I could live with it

Don Vito
01-14-2010, 12:15 PM
Please God anyone but Tebow. He may end up doing well but I'd be so pissed if we took him in the first.

proshoota25
01-14-2010, 12:40 PM
I would like Tebow, but in the second round.

Nalej
01-14-2010, 01:31 PM
I have said before that Tebow would be a great fit in NE however if it is him or a stud pass rusher then it's not een debatable. However I would gladly have a draft of Tebow, Kindle/Hughes/Sapp etc, Ducasse, Spikes. Obviously it may not fall that way but if we an get Tebow a pass rusher, an offensive lineman then BPA I could live with it



Please God anyone but Tebow. He may end up doing well but I'd be so pissed if we took him in the first.

I agree with the above statements.

ElectricEye
01-14-2010, 08:45 PM
Alright, it seems that we're big time linked to Tebow at this point. Scott even said so in his scouting report thread. We have SOOO much time to talk about that, and we'll know a whole lot more closer to the draft, so let's do a wonderful thing and change the subject.

Personally, I'm in the mood to discuss inside linebackers? Do we need one? The consensus is that we do. Personally, I'm more than happy with Mayo and Guyton. Both of them are still EXTREMELY young and far from being finished products. Still have a lot of upside. Guyton was asked to do more this year and at times didn't have the best angles or positions, especially in coverage from what I saw. The knee really bothered Mayo. Like Guyton, he was also a bit swallowed up by his expanded role. That in conjunction with the injury and poor defensive play in general led to him standing out far less. Personally, I think that outside linebacker is a far bigger need and that everything would jell better for the entire defense with even competent run defenders to the outside. At times, we didn't even have that. But if we're going to take an ILB, I defiantly think we should lean more towards the SILB type. A big guy who can be a physical presence...like Rey Maualuga. Couple guys I like;

Brandon Spikes
Eye gouge or not, he's proved to be a damn good player for Florida. He has the all around skillset you look for out of a linebacker, but lacks the physical toolset to back it up. He's probably one of the more boring possibilities just because you know what you're getting with him, but in terms of a fit I think he would be a good one. The New England/Florida Gators pipeline isn't as big of a deal as some people make it up to be, but culturally, Urban Meyer does some of the same things that we do. In terms of scheme, Spikes fits the aforementioned SILB thing perfectly. At 6'3 and nearly 260 pounds, he won't have much of a problem shedding blocks and helping stop the run. The bonus is that he's also pretty decent in coverage as long as you don't ask him to cover too much ground. I wouldn't touch him until probably the last of our second rounders just because he's going to be a limited player in the NFL, but he would be a great pick after we take care of a few other needs.

Micah Johnson
Similar to Spikes in terms of size, I actually think Johnson might be a tick better of an athlete out of the two. He's a guy who has been under the radar his entire career playing for Kentucky and their mediocre defense. Again, he's a guy who's sheer physical presence would be a welcome addition to our progressively smaller defense. He's not a guy we would have to spend a pick in the first two rounds to get either, so that means we would be able to allocate our resources to getting a pass rusher. I haven't had as much of a chance to watch him as I have Spikes, but in the games I have seen with him I've been pretty impressed. Don Vito and the other SEC guys might be able to give us a broader perspective on him in terms of strengths/weaknesses, but from what I've seen Johnson could be a contributor for us. We got a good find out of Kentucky last year in Myron Pryor, so why not go back for more?

Another guy I really LOVE is Daryl Washington. We have similar players here in Guyton and Mayo, but Washington is special in my opinion. Love the way he closes to the ball and his abilities in coverage. He's way undersized for us, but Mayo was even smaller coming out. Doesn't make much sense, but I wouldn't complain if we decided to draft him.

Really, it's not a good year for SILB's. There's not a guy coming out playing outside that I could see transitioning inside to be a decent player for us either. Our options are fairly limited this year. Much better crop of DE/OLB transition players IMO.

nepg
01-14-2010, 08:53 PM
I'm happy with Mayo & Guyton... Really looking forward to the return of Tyrone McKenzie...I think he's better than anyone they'll be able to draft.

Everyone links the Pats with Spikes, but I don't see it and I think he kinda sucks.

I do love Washington though. Drafting Washington would make my heart super happy.

AntoinCD
01-15-2010, 07:05 AM
Washington is a real good player but I don't see the value in drafting him. As was mentioned he is pretty similar to what we've got and may be more suited to a pure 43 team. If we can get Micah Johnson in the 4th I'd be happy as it means we can concentrate on bigger needs like OLB or OG/OT

Bigburt63
01-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Mayo and Guyton are average starting ILB's right now, but they are both 2nd (going on 3rd) year players who are very average, but show loads of potential and improvement. If we were to pick up another ILB (Mackenzie will be back next year), I would prefer for it to be a veteran type. I want to see Guyton and Mayo develop some more.

I've been thinking for a while now about Tebow being drafted by the patriots in the first round. IIRC, Tebow spoke to BB before not declaring last year to ask him for advice. BB and Meyer have a tremendous amount of respect for one-another, and if there was any place that he could sit (and play something, just not QB) and learn for 2-3 years and become, you know, an actual quarterback, it would be NE. That said, if we pass (and miss out) on Kindle for Tebow I will be ******* pissed.

Matthew Jones
01-17-2010, 11:29 AM
Guyton didn't really play well this year and I'm sure they'd like to replace him. Maybe use him as a third-down guy? It seemed like he looked okay dropping into coverage but he really didn't deal with shedding blocks and things like that very well. Tyrone McKenzie is coming back too and I project him to be an inside linebacker. It seems like this unit could really benefit from getting a few veterans who are stout against the run. Takes some of the pressure off Mayo, who seemed to regress a little bit with added responsibilities this year. Tully Banta-Cain got pushed around against the run too. Adalius Thomas is actually a decent run defender but I don't see him coming back, so it looks like the team is going to be adding a lot of guys.

proshoota25
01-18-2010, 11:16 AM
Guyton didn't really play well this year and I'm sure they'd like to replace him. Maybe use him as a third-down guy? It seemed like he looked okay dropping into coverage but he really didn't deal with shedding blocks and things like that very well. Tyrone McKenzie is coming back too and I project him to be an inside linebacker. It seems like this unit could really benefit from getting a few veterans who are stout against the run. Takes some of the pressure off Mayo, who seemed to regress a little bit with added responsibilities this year. Tully Banta-Cain got pushed around against the run too. Adalius Thomas is actually a decent run defender but I don't see him coming back, so it looks like the team is going to be adding a lot of guys.

theres no doubt about that. to be honest, i think they will bring in 2 or 3 new guys to replace people. they need more production out of those positions.

Bigburt63
01-18-2010, 09:16 PM
Guyton didn't really play well this year and I'm sure they'd like to replace him. Maybe use him as a third-down guy? It seemed like he looked okay dropping into coverage but he really didn't deal with shedding blocks and things like that very well. Tyrone McKenzie is coming back too and I project him to be an inside linebacker. It seems like this unit could really benefit from getting a few veterans who are stout against the run. Takes some of the pressure off Mayo, who seemed to regress a little bit with added responsibilities this year. Tully Banta-Cain got pushed around against the run too. Adalius Thomas is actually a decent run defender but I don't see him coming back, so it looks like the team is going to be adding a lot of guys.

Guyton is only a 2nd year player though. We have a fairly young defense, which is why (outside of a few positions, cough OLB, DE, cough) I'd rather bring in some veterans. Guyton and Mayo are still growing and developing and can't be given up on yet. Oh yeah, and TBC is NOT an every down player, a situational pass rusher yes, but we need some OLB help bad.

proshoota25
01-18-2010, 10:30 PM
bad is an understatement, bigburt

Defsoul
01-23-2010, 05:04 AM
I like Guyton on passing downs but not in obvious running situations. He seems to be a WILB only like Mayo. We need someone next to Mayo who can take on blockers and fight through trash to find the ball carrier. A solid SILB would free up Mayo to roam around and make tackles. Maybe Tyrone McKenzie is that type of player, Micah Johnson is my favorite player to do so in the draft.

AntoinCD
01-23-2010, 05:47 AM
Yeah i agree about Johnson think he could be a nice fit however I dont see the Pats taking him. Before he got hurt last year BB was absolutely raving about Mackenzie so he will at least get a fair shot through the offseason to get that second ILB spot. Unless there is a clear cut better option than Mackenzie or Guyton they will probably stay away from ILB

Nalej
01-23-2010, 05:31 PM
I agree that Guyton is not a thumper therefore is not a good match to pair up with Mayo.
This is why I wanted J. Brinkley so bad last year. Coulda shoulda woulda
I wouldn't mind if we grabbed Spikes this year either

ElectricEye
01-23-2010, 07:57 PM
Brinkley was one of my big wants last year too. Too bad we didn't take him. Looked decent in limited looks for the Vikings.

Bigburt63
01-24-2010, 05:02 PM
I would like to see some more talent infused into the LB corps everywhere, but I feel that Guyton can develop into a good player.

nepg
01-27-2010, 06:42 PM
So my current official "want" mock is:

22. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho
44. Damian Williams, WR, USC
47. Greg Hardy/Everson Griffen/Brandon Graham/Ricky Sapp/George Selvie (i.e. OLB)
53. Jason Veldheer, OT, Hillsdale College/Sam Young, OT, Notre Dame

(could you imagine how intimidating that OL would be in a couple years? VOLLMER, MANKINS, koppen, IUPATI, VELDHEER)

ElectricEye
01-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Veldheer just doesn't wow me from what I've heard. It would be nice to get Iupati, but I would rather get Ducasse in a later round.

Also, I'm really convinced we need two of those players. Eww to Selvie and Sapp though.

nepg
01-27-2010, 08:56 PM
I don't like Sapp (which is why he's so far down the list), and I'd rather use a 3rd on Selive, but they don't have one. They're going to have to "reach" on one or two guys in round two because they don't have picks in round three.

Here are a couple videos containing Veldheer so you can get a real look at him. First is a horrible montage of his team - looks like his mom put it together (hit the mute button ASAP), mainly just shows you his size. Second one is him lifting 425. I can't find any actual footage of him playing.

NoB7foRXGLw

TZUoHh8gupE

ElectricEye
01-27-2010, 09:21 PM
The lift is very impressive, but I'm not digging the chicken legs in that video.

AntoinCD
01-28-2010, 05:03 AM
So my current official "want" mock is:

22. Mike Iupati, OG, Idaho
44. Damian Williams, WR, USC
47. Greg Hardy/Everson Griffen/Brandon Graham/Ricky Sapp/George Selvie (i.e. OLB)
53. Jason Veldheer, OT, Hillsdale College/Sam Young, OT, Notre Dame

(could you imagine how intimidating that OL would be in a couple years? VOLLMER, MANKINS, koppen, IUPATI, VELDHEER)

At some point in the first two rounds I would like either Iupati, Ducasse or Pouncey. I would also like one of Kindle, Sapp, Graham, Griffen, Hardy or Norwood.

If we get two of those, one lineman and one pass rusher then I'm all for BPA with the other two picks. I wouldn't even mind going up a few spots for Iupati in the first. Guy is a beast

Razor
01-28-2010, 07:08 AM
Iupati looks like a very good player, I wouldn't mind him in the first. But if there is a premium pass rusher available there, like Kindle (he's probably going to Miami), I would be pissed if we took Iupati over him. There are stille a couple of other good OG-prospects; Asamoah and that guy from Alabama who's name I can't remember right now. Brady will make any OL look better than it really is, and one of those later round guards might be just as good in this system. If you look at the o-linemen on the roster, I don't think there's one guy over 310-315 lbs. Iupati is 330 or so which will have me doubt he athletisism until the Combine.

Nalej
01-28-2010, 07:11 AM
I'm okay with grabbing Iutupi in the 1st ONLY as long as our very next pick is an OLB
That said- if a bunch of OLBs that we're looking at are getting picked earlier then expected (earlier then our 1st) then I say we grab one.
I like Kindle and Hughes more then anyone there.

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 09:36 AM
I'm okay with grabbing Iutupi in the 1st ONLY as long as our very next pick is an OLB
That said- if a bunch of OLBs that we're looking at are getting picked earlier then expected (earlier then our 1st) then I say we grab one.
I like Kindle and Hughes more then anyone there.

I'm okay with Kindle, but I'm on the BOE Jerry Hughes is a top fifteen talent bandwagon.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 09:41 AM
I think the OL depth in this draft is too good to use our 1st on a OT/G. Pass rushers are always at a premium and this year will be no different. It's a safe bet we'll see at least 5 pass rushers off the board before we pick and that means passing at 22 puts us in serious jeopardy of missing out entirely by 44.

Think about that gap - 22 picks between our first and second picks. That's a whole lot of pass rushers flying off the board.

Mike Johnson is the OG from bama and I haven't seen a mock yet that has him gone earlier than mid-second. I'd be fine with him or a C (Pouncey/Tennant) as our last pick in round 2. We'd still get an upgrade at either C or RG without risking our chance to secure a legit pass rush prospect.

We could even trade down out of that last 2nd and add two 3rds or a 3rd/4th and potentially pick up a G & C.

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 09:44 AM
Johnson has some strength concerns from what I gather. He might not hold up against bigger NFL defensive linemen. I'm really not sure I want to tempt fate with another Dan Koppen, much as I love him, again.

AntoinCD
01-28-2010, 10:02 AM
I think the OL depth in this draft is too good to use our 1st on a OT/G. Pass rushers are always at a premium and this year will be no different. It's a safe bet we'll see at least 5 pass rushers off the board before we pick and that means passing at 22 puts us in serious jeopardy of missing out entirely by 44.

Think about that gap - 22 picks between our first and second picks. That's a whole lot of pass rushers flying off the board.

Mike Johnson is the OG from bama and I haven't seen a mock yet that has him gone earlier than mid-second. I'd be fine with him or a C (Pouncey/Tennant) as our last pick in round 2. We'd still get an upgrade at either C or RG without risking our chance to secure a legit pass rush prospect.

We could even trade down out of that last 2nd and add two 3rds or a 3rd/4th and potentially pick up a G & C.

I think the draft will go one or two ways. Either passrushers will go early and often, or those tweener guys like Hughes, Sapp, Graham etc may fall. A lot of times teams aren't willing to put a top pick into a guy who will have to change positions. Last year the first passrushers/tweener was Larry English in the late teens. I'm hopeful of a slide, especially with some of the other talent on board, especially defensive tackle and offensive tackle.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 10:09 AM
^ I think you're right - and the slides could be at any position. We are in decent shape since this draft is deep at all the positions we need. It will definitely be an interesting one to watch. We should simply work off the trend - if the pass rush run is how it's going take a pass rusher so we don't miss out. Too bad it never works out the way we want . . .

Johnson has some strength concerns from what I gather. He might not hold up against bigger NFL defensive linemen. I'm really not sure I want to tempt fate with another Dan Koppen, much as I love him, again.

He's also talked about as a ZBS guy. Pouncey would be the best way to go as he projects at both G & C.

Since I doubt Hardy makes it to the end of round 2 I think my unofficial sig mock will now be Pouncey in the 2c slot.

Razor
01-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Speaking of tweeners, what do you think of Lindsey Witten from UConn? I could see him going to NE in the fourth or so, he's a really intruiging prospect. He's 6'5" 260 lbs, so he fits the profile.

Nalej
01-28-2010, 11:49 AM
Speaking of tweeners, what do you think of Lindsey Witten from UConn? I could see him going to NE in the fourth or so, he's a really intruiging prospect. He's 6'5" 260 lbs, so he fits the profile.

Don't know much about him but his size seems to fit BBs mold and BB has shown that he'll draft from UConn (D.Butler last year). As a mid round flyer- I don't see why not? Especially if we dont' grab 2 OLB in the 1st 2 rounds

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 11:59 AM
Speaking of tweeners, what do you think of Lindsey Witten from UConn? I could see him going to NE in the fourth or so, he's a really intruiging prospect. He's 6'5" 260 lbs, so he fits the profile.

Don't like him. Didn't do much until this year and got the majority of his sacks against bad teams. I've seen him play twice and he looks very blockable.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 12:15 PM
Has anyone watched much of Kindle this year?

I know you're not high on him, EE. But did you watch enough to know what kind of impact the loss of Orakpo had on his production?

I'm wondering if maybe Orakpo's departure made it easy for teams to slide protection +/- double team the guy all year, which would certainly impact his numbers.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 12:16 PM
Don't like him. Didn't do much until this year and got the majority of his sacks against bad teams. I've seen him play twice and he looks very blockable.

As a possible 4th rounder does he have better potential that, say, a 3rd round pick like Crable? lol

descendency
01-28-2010, 12:18 PM
Brandon Graham is the best pass rusher in the draft in my opinion now.

Don Vito
01-28-2010, 12:22 PM
Has anyone watched much of Kindle this year?

I know you're not high on him, EE. But did you watch enough to know what kind of impact the loss of Orakpo had on his production?

I'm wondering if maybe Orakpo's departure made it easy for teams to slide protection +/- double team the guy all year, which would certainly impact his numbers.

Kindle was one of the most feared defenders in the nation this year. Not saying he put up elite production, but he was definitely the first guy offenses accounted for on the Horns D. He lost Orakpo opposite him, but still had a solid season and capped it of with a dominant national championship performance. He is a perfect fit for a 3-4 OLB and I would be ecstatic if we took him, Brandon Graham would be great too. I really want one of the two in a Pats uni.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
As a Michigan homer I'd love Graham, too. Hopefully BB's post-draft comments about size were just a BS excuse and Graham's 6'1 size doesn't preclude him from being selected by us.

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 12:27 PM
Has anyone watched much of Kindle this year?

I know you're not high on him, EE. But did you watch enough to know what kind of impact the loss of Orakpo had on his production?

I'm wondering if maybe Orakpo's departure made it easy for teams to slide protection +/- double team the guy all year, which would certainly impact his numbers.

I didn't get to see much Texas football this year, (plus Colt McCoy irritates me for some reason so I would't want to watch them anyway), but the reports I was hearing earlier in the year, even from Texas fans, was that his level of play has really suffered. In the games I saw, he wasn't doubled, but he was keyed in on. Still came away with a bunch of TFL's, but his lack of a pass rush skills really hurt him. He basically tries to run around the tackle every play. Works on occasion in college, but it'll work less frequently in the NFL. He also didn't have his hand down 100%. I reconsidered my stance on him a bit as his athleticism allows him to be disruptive, but he'll need a lot of coaching.

As far as Witten goes...as a fourth rounder it would still be a gamble. He just strikes me as the Philip Hunt type.

I love the **** out of Brandon Graham. If we drafted him in the first I actually would not complain. Better to get Kindle and then him, unfair to Graham as that may be, but still.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 12:41 PM
I'd have to change my pants if we drafted both.

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 12:43 PM
That would be combining the best of both worlds. I'm not entirely sure some team doesn't fall in love with Graham(hopefully us) and snap him up where his talent and level of play deserves to be picked.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 12:49 PM
Maybe he'll measure out to 6'2 like he's listed (or even slightly over) and then we don't have to worry about BB's BS height comments.

Otherwise we'll be watching another Woodley roll right on by . . .

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Think we're out of luck. Officially measured 6'1 263 with 30 inch arms at the Senior Bowl.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 01:06 PM
http://www.comedycentral.com/tosh.0/files/2009/10/Picture-65.png


IDK - I think BB's comments are more media bits to get the reporters to shut up, rather than actual insights on how he makes personnel decisions. TBC and Burgess are both guys that are listed bigger than they really are, imo. 6'2 my arse . . .

ElectricEye
01-28-2010, 01:19 PM
There's probably some truth to all of that. Still don't think we'll spend a high pick on him, but for the next few months I'm going to be living under the pleasant delusion that we will be.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 01:21 PM
I'll be there to keep you company.

Don Vito
01-28-2010, 02:08 PM
I'd have to change my pants if we drafted both.

Oh god...throw in Hardy at the end of the second round and I don't know if I'd survive.

Nalej
01-28-2010, 02:15 PM
lol- 2 OLBs would definitely make me happy.
An OL and WR/TE/RB-BPA would top it off for me

descendency
01-28-2010, 02:20 PM
The Patriots need an OL, OLB/ILB, DE, and WR/RB/TE in the first 4 picks. They don't really have the option of taking two of one or the other.

I'd rather not bother taking Hardy. His health and motor bothers me. Both are signs of a potential bust.

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 02:21 PM
Oh god...throw in Hardy at the end of the second round and I don't know if I'd survive.

Do you think Hardy could be a 3-4 DE? Or does he transition to 3-4 OLB? EE mentioned he was bulking up and likely heading for a 4-3 DE role.

descendency
01-28-2010, 02:28 PM
Greg Hardy was playing at 240 lbs. He weighed in higher than that. He's now 280 and out of shape basically. His stock is tanking. He could be available in the mid rounds.

Basically the same type of problem Terrence Cody is having.

Nalej
01-28-2010, 02:31 PM
The Patriots need an OL, OLB/ILB, DE, and WR/RB/TE in the first 4 picks. They don't really have the option of taking two of one or the other.

I'd rather not bother taking Hardy. His health and motor bothers me. Both are signs of a potential bust.


I agree with those positions but if BB feels confortable entering the season with Warren and Wilfork holding down their positions with Pryor/Green/Brace/Wright on the other side then I can see us avoiding DE, at least for this draft.

If BB feels confident in McKenzie's recovery then we could have a Guyton/McK rotation oppisite Mayo. If Spikes drops though then we'd be dumb not to take him

OL needs to be addressed. No doubt.

OLB- our biggest need. Not arguable.

I would like the Pats to take a WR. Benn or Lafell would be great IMO.
Only RBs I'd like for us to take is Spiller or Best. I love Spiller.
Best- I'd like him but only after we take an OLB

TE I can deal without. Especially with our first 4 picks.
Only way I can be okay with it is in the event that Gresham falls into the 2nd
...which won't happen so **** that.
We can grab one in the 4th

FlyingElvis
01-28-2010, 02:43 PM
And sign/trade for Tony Scheffler . . .

Nalej
01-28-2010, 03:35 PM
And sign/trade for Tony Scheffler . . .


Bingo. More then perfect.

Don Vito
01-28-2010, 04:58 PM
Do you think Hardy could be a 3-4 DE? Or does he transition to 3-4 OLB? EE mentioned he was bulking up and likely heading for a 4-3 DE role.

In a 3-4 he would play OLB, 4-3 DE is likely for him though. I don't know where you heard that he was getting out of shape, I find that hard to believe. He has been cut ever since he got here, I would be really surprised to see him show up out of shape with this extra time to train.

nepg
01-28-2010, 06:05 PM
TE is so deep this year... Finding one won't be hard. I think Colin Peek fits the bill...probably in the 5th round...

I don't see the Pats getting Spikes. I don't like ILB in the first 2 rounds, anyway. And they're not going to draft a guy because he's a great value - per draftniks - and was falling... The Pats are reachers, and they aren't going to get involved in whatever position there's a run on...

They'll draft their guys where they feel they should be drafted. The only way I like someone more than Iupati in the first is if Derrick Morgan or Rolondo McClain falls to that spot...

There are a ton of pass rushers in this draft. There are a bunch of guys that fit Belichick's prototype. Hardy, Selvie, Morgan, JPP, Sapp, Griffen, Hughes, Graham (not the height, but everything else), and he might even try Carlos Dunlap at OLB... Why would the Pats draft a guy just because there's a run on the position? Someone they like will be there when it's rational. The Pats have never made an emotional, heat of the moment pick since the current regime has been in power...

On Iupati, you can like Ducasse and some others all you want, but they're not even close to Iupati's level. Any of the OG's that are being talked as alternatives are unproven players or players that just aren't that good. They can afford to reach on a project OT, but they need an immediate impact player at OG - Iupati's the only one.

FlyingElvis
01-29-2010, 08:47 AM
In a 3-4 he would play OLB, 4-3 DE is likely for him though. I don't know where you heard that he was getting out of shape, I find that hard to believe. He has been cut ever since he got here, I would be really surprised to see him show up out of shape with this extra time to train.

Thanks.

EE had mentioned he was bulking up, not getting fat and out of shape.

ElectricEye
01-29-2010, 11:45 AM
descendency, please don't talk out of your ass. Hardy was playing at 265(Scott's interview. EDIT: 267 actually) most of the year and isn't out of shape. You have no evidence for that at all. He might be slightly out of shape because of the injury, but he isn't having "basically the same type of problem Terrence Cody is having."

No way he could be a 3-4 defensive end. That wouldn't be playing to his strength at all. He's effective against the run, but he just isn't a gap control type of guy. If we do draft him and I'm betting we don't at this point, he would need to drop ten pounds or so to be more fluid in coverage.

As far as Dunlap goes...I haven't thought of that. Not sure I like the idea. Everybody knows his story, all the talent in the world, questionable effort, arrest, ect. But we were enamored with Julius Peppers playing OLB for us. I was one of the people who didn't like the idea of someone 6'7 playing OLB(same stance on Michael Johnson) and I'm pretty sure I would feel the same about Dunlap, especially given he isn't quite as fast or fluid as those guys are. It is an interesting thought though, given BB's past interest in similarly built players and the Florida connection.

Nalej
01-29-2010, 03:24 PM
As far as Dunlap goes...I haven't thought of that. Not sure I like the idea. Everybody knows his story, all the talent in the world, questionable effort, arrest, ect. But we were enamored with Julius Peppers playing OLB for us. I was one of the people who didn't like the idea of someone 6'7 playing OLB(same stance on Michael Johnson) and I'm pretty sure I would feel the same about Dunlap, especially given he isn't quite as fast or fluid as those guys are. It is an interesting thought though, given BB's past interest in similarly built players and the Florida connection.



With what I bolded above: I think the chance of grabbing Dunlap is high now. That's a great point you made. I wonder how that would work out

nepg
01-29-2010, 03:29 PM
I think it'd be fine. We had Willie McGinnest at OLB way past the period of time when he was of any use in coverage. He played pretty much every down and it worked out well. Jason Taylor looked really good at OLB for the Dolphins, and Matthias Kiwanuka has worked out just fine for the Giants...

FlyingElvis
02-01-2010, 09:36 AM
Where do you guys see the Senior Bowl studs being selected now?

I'd be surprised to see Graham make it to 22 at this point, but if he does I officially want him over Kindle now. 6'1 or 6'4 . . . the kid is a baller.

Gilyard looked impressive and can return kicks. I have packed up my **** and tossed it on his bandwagon.




Others that we could probably target with late round picks - 4th, 6th . . . not sure where they may go:

LeGarrett Blount: off-field issues? let's face it - punching someone is far from taboo in the NFL.

Jacoby Ford: another KR kid and WR so he could eventually contribute at a position of need for us.

Dexter McCluster: tweener, right? RB at Ole Miss but listed mostly as a WR prospect now. RB/WR with KR skills.

Javier Arenas/Devin McCourty: two CB prospects with the return skills we so desperately need.

nepg
02-01-2010, 09:47 AM
I never liked Kindle for the Pats. Graham doesn't get the love he deserves. He's a better version of Woodley, imo. I still prefer Iupati at 22.

There are others I prefer over Gilyard.

If anything, punching the Boise State player ended up being a boon for Blount. He grew up a ****-ton after that, and was spared the grind of the season. He'd be a good power back for the Pats.

I like McCluster as an heir to Faulk.

Arenas is definitely a guy I want the Pats to pick up. Could finally get rid of Slater's worthless ass and provide a good nickel or dime back (depending on Leigh Bodden's situation).

Nalej
02-01-2010, 09:54 AM
I like Kindle bc he has experience in space and with his hand in the dirt.
One less thing to transition to.

ElectricEye
02-01-2010, 11:05 AM
I like Kindle bc he has experience in space and with his hand in the dirt.
One less thing to transition to.

Graham has played linebacker in the past. MLB, in fact. That's where he got his start as Michigan. Kindle has more experience playing the position in college, but Graham isn't as raw as your standard OLB convert.

As far as late round picks; I like Jacoby Ford a bit more than I did. He'll never be more than a couple big plays a year for a team, but that's just what he need.

Blount is interesting and he compares to Corey Dillon pretty favorably. I'm not so concerned about his off the field issues. Kind of overblown. Stuff like that happens more often than you would think and if the Boise State player really did drop a racial slur, I don't exactly blame him. Trying to go into the stands was REALLY bad though. That's about as awful of a thing you can do on the field. Wouldn't mind if we gave him a shot, but I wouldn't be enthralled by it either.

McCluster is a guy I'm warming up to more and more. Slashers are having a lot of success in the NFL right now and he projects fairly well to that role. He's very built, but he's still small. There's major concerns about him holding up, but he could be a major player too. Last year, he made a few REALLY bad plays, but this year he was tons better in the best conference in college football. As long as he keeps his head on and doesn't fumble the football, I would love the have him. Heir to Kevin Faulk? Maybe. He could be a similar player in the NFL.

Another possibility unexamined; Joe McKnight. Not a fan of him at all as a player, but in the 4th round the value might be there. I don't think he'll run anywhere near as fast as people think and he'll be a limited player in the NFL, but he's got the diverse runningback skillset we're all looking at favorably right now. If he pans out he would be a major steal in terms of where we would be able to take him.

FlyingElvis
02-04-2010, 10:26 AM
My current thoughts on probable targets for us in round 1:

C.J. Spiller - Zero chance he makes it past Seattle but if he does he's a lock.

Brandon Graham - Stud, stud, stud. I doubt he makes it by Miami and his size is a factor for BB, but he's a stud - did I already mention that?

Sergio Kindle - Beastly measurables and the combine could push him up out of our reach.

Jared Odrick - Excellent work in both practices and the game for the Senior Bowl. I think he will continue to increase his stock at the combine and be a definite 1st rounder.


And what do you guys think about Cody?

If Wilfork is tagged he'll be pissed and probably look for a contract stipulation preventing another tag in 2011, at which point he'll be running out the door hoping to head to Florida. Cody would be the replacement needed as the run stuffing fatty Brace has not proved to be. Cody's weight and issues will likely push him into the second where we have plenty chances at him without breaking the bank.

AntoinCD
02-04-2010, 02:40 PM
Cody for me would be worst case scenario as it means Wilfork will be gone either this year or next. But as a player I think his run stuffing skills are on an elite level.

For the draft I recently done a one round mock but have a rough draft for the second.

For the Pats its

1. Mike Iupati
2. Jerry Hughes
2. Jahvid Best
2. Arthur Jones

What do you think of that scenario. Other players that were considered at certian points

Brandon Lafell, Vladimir Ducasse(if we dont go Iupati in the 1st), Ricky Sapp all between app 44 and 50.

Then around 52 there is Maurkice Pouncey, Jason Fox, Greg Hardy etc

proshoota25
02-05-2010, 12:59 PM
i think the Pats will give Pouncey a SERIOUS look. Has the versatility to play C/G. Very productive. I think if hes there somewhere in the second, the Patriots will pick him.

Nalej
02-05-2010, 02:51 PM
For the draft I recently done a one round mock but have a rough draft for the second.

For the Pats its

1. Mike Iupati
2. Jerry Hughes
2. Jahvid Best
2. Arthur Jones

What do you think of that scenario.

Im in love

FlyingElvis
02-05-2010, 03:05 PM
I'd much rather have Pouncey instead of Iupati. Pouncey will be available later, cost less, is less likely to be the holding machine that Iupati seems to be initially and won't cost us a shot at a top pass rusher.

With that said, it all depends on how the board falls. If Iupati costs us Kindle/Graham/Spiller it would suck. If all of those guys are gone and Iupati is BPA I'd be ok with it.

ElectricEye
02-05-2010, 03:07 PM
For the Pats its

1. Mike Iupati
2. Jerry Hughes
2. Jahvid Best
2. Arthur Jones


I like every single one of those picks. Arthur Jones isn't a very good 3-4 DE prospect, in my opinion, but he's a hell of a value at that point and I could be wrong. Hughes is my choice out of everyone as a pass rusher. Best in my favorite runningback in the class, and Iupati would be a good pick as well.

FlyingElvis
02-05-2010, 03:09 PM
Cody for me would be worst case scenario as it means Wilfork will be gone either this year or next. But as a player I think his run stuffing skills are on an elite level.


That's what I'm expecting to happen. Vince gets tagged, signs the tender with the stipulation that he can't be tagged again in 2011 and tells NE to F-off next year on his way to Florida. Which means tagging him this year makes a guy like Cody very attractive to fill that void.

nepg
02-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I'd much rather have Pouncey instead of Iupati. Pouncey will be available later, cost less, is less likely to be the holding machine that Iupati seems to be initially and won't cost us a shot at a top pass rusher.

With that said, it all depends on how the board falls. If Iupati costs us Kindle/Graham/Spiller it would suck. If all of those guys are gone and Iupati is BPA I'd be ok with it.

They can (should?) get both. Iupati is the #1 guy on my Pats board. There are a ton of pass rushers available, and there's really only one that's distinguishable from the others (Morgan). Iupati doesn't "cost" them anything.

I, too, like Pouncey. I might take him where Best is going in that little mock. The only problem I have with that mock is the Best pick. The Pats really need a WR, and there will be some great options in that slot. Arthur Jones is a great value there, so I can't say I wouldn't love it.

AntoinCD
02-06-2010, 10:25 AM
I'm not a fan of WR this year. There are two guys I would take, Bryant and Benn. Bryant willbe nowhere near our pick and to take Benn the board would have to fall in a weird way. Next year is the year IMO. The only WR this year close to the top 4 or 5 next year is Bryant and as I said he won't last

Nalej
02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
I'm not a fan of WR this year. There are two guys I would take, Bryant and Benn. Bryant willbe nowhere near our pick and to take Benn the board would have to fall in a weird way. Next year is the year IMO. The only WR this year close to the top 4 or 5 next year is Bryant and as I said he won't last


Good point. My narrow minded self was looking at just next year. Not the next.
I'd still take a WR if someone slipped. I'd still be down to snatch LaFell, Alexender or D.Thomas in the later rounds

ElectricEye
02-06-2010, 11:39 AM
If we're going wide receiver, I still really, really like Demaryius Thomas. He's a physical guy who could also stretch the field a bit for us. Has excellent YAC ability too. Dezmon Briscoe would be good if he was there in the fourth round too.

Babylon
02-06-2010, 11:43 AM
If we're going wide receiver, I still really, really like Demaryius Thomas. He's a physical guy who could also stretch the field a bit for us. Has excellent YAC ability too. Dezmon Briscoe would be good if he was there in the fourth round too.

Thomas would probably be a good choice in the 4th but why not grab Cooper, who has much more speed, to go along with Tebow?:)

Nalej
02-06-2010, 11:46 AM
ugh- enough with the Tebow talk. I wouldn't mind Cooper either. What about E.Decker?

ElectricEye
02-06-2010, 11:53 AM
Decker is good, but I would much prefer Cooper. Decker has been overrated quite a bit in my opinion. Everyone knows he has great hands, but his production has been a lot more average than you would think and it's not like he's lighting up guys with a whole lot of speed. Riley Cooper is a much better athlete. Only concern with him is the entire Florida wide receiver thing.

As far as Cooper versus Thomas goes, I'll give the edge to Thomas by a wide margin. I'm a big fan. I think he's a better overall athlete, maybe not as straight line fast, but he has great leaping ability and plays strong in every sense of the word. He'll bowl people over after the catch and has the ability to go up and get the ball in the air too. Both of them are very raw, but Thomas is slightly more skilled and does things that you can't teach Cooper to do. He'll probably be in the third round range as far as receiver go though, which means we won't really have a good pick to select him with.

BuffaloBillsFan
02-06-2010, 03:19 PM
Haha, you guys have so many picks to work with, you guys must be loving all the mock drafts.

Razor
02-06-2010, 04:22 PM
I would say that LaFell and Briscoe are my favorite receiver in the second round at this point. I think both Cooper and Decker would be great pick ups in the fourth/fifth round (assuming that we get a fifth on draft day, which is likely).

Nalej
02-06-2010, 08:29 PM
Haha, you guys have so many picks to work with, you guys must be loving all the mock drafts.

Better believe it :D


I'd take Thomas with our last 2nd rounder if OLB and OL have been addressed.
L.Blount in the 4th and its Super Bowl or bust for me!
ReSign Wilfork and Watson as well... fo shizzle

descendency
02-06-2010, 09:28 PM
Riley Cooper would be nice in the fourth. I don't care much for the current WRs. I don't think any of them are must haves. I think Dez is probably the only true #1 right now. Benn's hands scare me. Blame it on Juice, but he scares me.

Babylon
02-07-2010, 11:52 AM
Decker is good, but I would much prefer Cooper. Decker has been overrated quite a bit in my opinion. Everyone knows he has great hands, but his production has been a lot more average than you would think and it's not like he's lighting up guys with a whole lot of speed. Riley Cooper is a much better athlete. Only concern with him is the entire Florida wide receiver thing.

As far as Cooper versus Thomas goes, I'll give the edge to Thomas by a wide margin. I'm a big fan. I think he's a better overall athlete, maybe not as straight line fast, but he has great leaping ability and plays strong in every sense of the word. He'll bowl people over after the catch and has the ability to go up and get the ball in the air too. Both of them are very raw, but Thomas is slightly more skilled and does things that you can't teach Cooper to do. He'll probably be in the third round range as far as receiver go though, which means we won't really have a good pick to select him with.

The thing i also like about both Thomas and Cooper is their ability to block. As for the comparison as athletes i think you might be surprised at the outcome when the combine rolls around.

ElectricEye
02-07-2010, 08:42 PM
The thing i also like about both Thomas and Cooper is their ability to block. As for the comparison as athletes i think you might be surprised at the outcome when the combine rolls around.

I bet that Cooper will test better in most of the drills, but in terms of athleticism I still like Thomas. Thomas is a high 4.4 guy from what I've seen, and Cooper is a high 4.3 to low 4.4 guy. Thomas is so much bigger and stronger though. When the ball is in the air, there's not many corners who are going to like matching up with Thomas. He's also able to bully people after the catch to an extent that Cooper won't. Only thing Cooper has over him is that he's a bit more of a vertical threat, but not by much(Maybe not even. That's based a lot on projection.). Demaryius Thomas is the tougher overall match-up. Love both of them though.

Babylon
02-08-2010, 04:23 PM
I bet that Cooper will test better in most of the drills, but in terms of athleticism I still like Thomas. Thomas is a high 4.4 guy from what I've seen, and Cooper is a high 4.3 to low 4.4 guy. Thomas is so much bigger and stronger though. When the ball is in the air, there's not many corners who are going to like matching up with Thomas. He's also able to bully people after the catch to an extent that Cooper won't. Only thing Cooper has over him is that he's a bit more of a vertical threat, but not by much(Maybe not even. That's based a lot on projection.). Demaryius Thomas is the tougher overall match-up. Love both of them though.

Yeah i think they'll both fit that roll of big receiver who can get off jams at the line of scrimmage. I thought Thomas was slower than you elude to so a good time at the combine could send his stock soaring.

RealityCheck
02-08-2010, 04:27 PM
Haha, you guys have so many picks to work with, you guys must be loving all the mock drafts.
Still, we have more needs than picks.

ryno626
02-08-2010, 04:39 PM
what do you guys think the chances are of the Raiders' 2010 pick coming into play by April?

Babylon
02-08-2010, 05:00 PM
what do you guys think the chances are of the Raiders' 2010 pick coming into play by April?

2011 pick you mean? I think Seattle would love to get their hands on that pick. (Jake Locker)

ryno626
02-08-2010, 06:20 PM
2011 pick you mean? I think Seattle would love to get their hands on that pick. (Jake Locker)

yup...whoops

Nalej
02-08-2010, 07:30 PM
2011 pick you mean? I think Seattle would love to get their hands on that pick. (Jake Locker)


Yea, but what the hell are they going to give us for it?
I can't think of anyone on that team I'd want on the Pats.
Maybe a corner? An OLman? Plus their 1st as well... and they better have ****** season too
Its P.Carrol so I'm wouldn't worry to much

ElectricEye
02-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Yeah i think they'll both fit that roll of big receiver who can get off jams at the line of scrimmage. I thought Thomas was slower than you elude to so a good time at the combine could send his stock soaring.

Worst case scenario for Thomas is a low 4.5. I'm high on him and his speed as much as you are on Cooper's. Might be wrong, but he looks faster than the 4.55 Scott suggests, and we all know those times are fairly conservative in most cases.

As far as the Raiders pick...I want Julio Jones so I say we keep it haha.

Nalej
02-08-2010, 09:31 PM
Hell yea we keep it. The raiders will not be good next year.
I know, I'm going out on a limb

AntoinCD
02-09-2010, 03:42 AM
I really don't see much chance of the Raiders pick being used this year. If there is someone we like in the top 10-13 or so we have enough ammunition with 3 2nds to move up and even if we were to hypothetically trade with say Cleveland to get Dez Bryant and they ask for 2 1sts there is more chance of giving up our own 1st rather than the one we got from Oakland. The more likely scenario though is trading one of the 2nds for another 2011 1st.

Ideally if we trade our 2nd 2nd rounder to someone like Arizona for next years 1st and they tank without Kurt Warner.

Then this year we take

1. Sergio Kindle
2. Jahvid Best
2. Maurkice Pouncey

Then with 3 1sts next year we take Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones and Kyle Rudolph(with the 32nd pick obviously).

If all that happens I will buy a plane ticket to Boston, get a train to Foxboro, buy a game ticket, storm the field and then proceed to dance ball naked on the 50yd line.

Nalej
02-09-2010, 08:24 AM
I really don't see much chance of the Raiders pick being used this year. If there is someone we like in the top 10-13 or so we have enough ammunition with 3 2nds to move up and even if we were to hypothetically trade with say Cleveland to get Dez Bryant and they ask for 2 1sts there is more chance of giving up our own 1st rather than the one we got from Oakland. The more likely scenario though is trading one of the 2nds for another 2011 1st.

Ideally if we trade our 2nd 2nd rounder to someone like Arizona for next years 1st and they tank without Kurt Warner.

Then this year we take

1. Sergio Kindle
2. Jahvid Best
2. Maurkice Pouncey

Then with 3 1sts next year we take Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones and Kyle Rudolph(with the 32nd pick obviously).

If all that happens I will buy a plane ticket to Boston, get a train to Foxboro, buy a game ticket, storm the field and then proceed to dance ball naked on the 50yd line.


I completely agree with the bolded above.
As far as storming the field. I'll be the naked dude doing jumping jacks on the team logo

FlyingElvis
02-09-2010, 08:36 AM
I officially want that to happen now so I can lmao at the two nutcases dancing in the buff and then being tackled at the logo.

And I'll be very glad the FCC instituted the 5 second delay so you'll be pixilated.

Razor
02-09-2010, 09:23 AM
I really don't see much chance of the Raiders pick being used this year. If there is someone we like in the top 10-13 or so we have enough ammunition with 3 2nds to move up and even if we were to hypothetically trade with say Cleveland to get Dez Bryant and they ask for 2 1sts there is more chance of giving up our own 1st rather than the one we got from Oakland. The more likely scenario though is trading one of the 2nds for another 2011 1st.

Ideally if we trade our 2nd 2nd rounder to someone like Arizona for next years 1st and they tank without Kurt Warner.

Then this year we take

1. Sergio Kindle
2. Jahvid Best
2. Maurkice Pouncey

Then with 3 1sts next year we take Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones and Kyle Rudolph(with the 32nd pick obviously).

If all that happens I will buy a plane ticket to Boston, get a train to Foxboro, buy a game ticket, storm the field and then proceed to dance ball naked on the 50yd line, only to be power-tackled by James Sanders in full sprint.
Fixed! :)

If this happened, it would be worth taking the trip across the pond for!

Babylon
02-09-2010, 11:36 AM
Yea, but what the hell are they going to give us for it?
I can't think of anyone on that team I'd want on the Pats.
Maybe a corner? An OLman? Plus their 1st as well... and they better have ****** season too
Its P.Carrol so I'm wouldn't worry to much


Maybe swap 1sts this year (Seattle has 6 & 14) and throw in a 2nd or 3rd from 2011. Wasnt thinking on the line of players being involved.

Nalej
02-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Scott's new Mock made me puke in my mouth

1- T.Tebow QB
2- J.Dwyer RB
2- K.Misi OLB
2- A.Hernandez TE

-I don't like Tebow in the 1st. B.Graham and J. Hughes are still available
-Dwyer looks like the same prospect Maroney was supposed to be. I'd prefer a Best/McCluster type back now. With Best gone Spikes would have been better
-Misi has a lot of TFL but again J.Hughes is still available.
-A.Hernandez is a need if Watson isn't resigned but we still haven't addressed our OLine.

:(

ElectricEye
02-11-2010, 10:10 AM
Yeah, that makes no sense to me what so ever. Any of those picks. It would be more palatable if Misi was Jerry Hughes and Hernadez was Rob Gronkowski, both of whom are better all around players than Heradez and Misi.

Razor
02-11-2010, 10:25 AM
Here's what I posted:
Alright Scott, nice work in general.. But as a Patriots fan I almost threw up when I read your mock. First of all, NE will not select Tebow - especially in the first round! Brandon Graham, Tate, Benn, Pouncey, Odrick and even Dan Williams would all have been better selections. The Dwyer pick is good imo, and it's very good value at that point. Good pick. Koa Misi over Brandon Spikes? If that happen on drafday I will throw myself in front of a bus..

The Hernandez pick in the second fits a need, but the wrong player imo. Gronkowski is a better overall prospect, whereas Hernandez is somewhat one-dimensional. Kyle Wilson, Tyson Alualu and Jared Veldheer are all good options at that point, and this draft is very deep at TE.

So as much as I love your mocks in general, they're pretty bad from a Pats fans perspective (Or that's just my opinion though). Keep them coming though, I especially look forward to your first one after the Combine. :)

Now I know that picking players for the Patriots is really hard, since they don't have any tendencies that really stand out. But a QB in the first when we already have a HoF QB would be dumb as ****! Try mocking Tebow to the Indianopolis Chokes and see what kind of reaction you'll get.

AntoinCD
02-11-2010, 10:47 AM
I agree with most of this ^^^^^^^ but I have to disagree on Tebow. Not a fan in the first but most scouts are projecting a position change for Tebow, including Scott in fairness, so the idea of taking him to replace Brady isn't applicable. And BB has close ties with Urban Meyer who will sell him to the fullest and Belichick is the kind of coach who would take him

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 11:19 AM
That would really ruin an entire weekend in April for me. And then the next few months of OTA, Mini-camp, Training Camp, Pre-season . . .



http://blog.internetnews.com/apatrizio/do-not-want-dog.jpg

Babylon
02-11-2010, 01:01 PM
New England needs to consolodate some of those picks and move up in the draft to address that defense. Quality is better than quantity.

nepg
02-11-2010, 01:06 PM
That would be a horrible draft. I don't want any of those guys at any point in the draft...maybe Hernandez if he falls to the 4th round...

ElectricEye
02-11-2010, 01:43 PM
New England needs to consolodate some of those picks and move up in the draft to address that defense. Quality is better than quantity.

There's a fair share of quality players that figure to be available for us on defense in the second round. Don't think we need to move up, I suppose it is possible, but still.

Babylon
02-11-2010, 01:48 PM
There's a fair share of quality players that figure to be available for us on defense in the second round. Don't think we need to move up, I suppose it is possible, but still.

Lately it seems their logic is to trade down for multiple picks. To me guys like Eric Berry, Joe Haden and Brandon Graham are clearly better than anything their going to find in the second round. Who am i to question Bill B. i guess.

ElectricEye
02-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Lately it seems their logic is to trade down for multiple picks. To me guys like Eric Berry, Joe Haden and Brandon Graham are clearly better than anything their going to find in the second round. Who am i to question Bill B. i guess.

Well, we're not going to be able to have an Eric Berry or a Joe Haden type, but there's no reason for us not to draft Brandon Graham with our first rounder. I agree that our tendency to trade down is really god damned annoying. I think everyone here does. We've been talking about it all year, this time we HAVE to actually use our draft picks. I'm fairly confident in our ability to spot talent, so it's time to actually take some instead of constantly drafting Terrence Wheatley and Rich Ohrnberger over and over again. We need guys to help now. Guys to make an impact.

AntoinCD
02-11-2010, 02:36 PM
Lately it seems their logic is to trade down for multiple picks. To me guys like Eric Berry, Joe Haden and Brandon Graham are clearly better than anything their going to find in the second round. Who am i to question Bill B. i guess.

Berry is a pipe dream and really a luxury we couldnt afford. With Merriweather, Chung, Sanders and Magowan we are set at safety. Berry and Merriweather would be like a wet dream though but its not going to happen.

Now if Haden somehow fell out of the top ten I wouldnt be opposed to trading up. Haden, Butler, Merriweather, Chung/Sanders/Magowan = one of the best secondaries in the NFL.

Apart from that the biggest need is pass rusher and there is not much difference between guys like JPP, Kindle etc who may go top 12 and people like Jerry Hughes etc who may go bottom half of the second.

The only guys worth trading up for in this draft IMO are Suh(not going to happen), McCoy(not going to happen), Berry(not going to happen), Haden(probably not going to happen) and McClain(maybe could happen, especially with BB's ties to Nick Saban)

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 02:44 PM
^ and ILB prospects tend to slide. We'll probably have the chance to draft McClain @ 22 and pass so we can trade down . . .


I agree that we don't really need to move up to get top talent at our positions of need. The list includes G, C, TE, RB and pass rush and you really only need 1st round picks to get top pass rush talent. The other positions rarely require 1st round selections to acquire studs.

ElectricEye
02-11-2010, 02:57 PM
.
I agree that we don't really need to move up to get top talent at our positions of need. The list includes G, C, TE, RB and pass rush and you really only need 1st round picks to get top pass rush talent. The other positions rarely require 1st round selections to acquire studs.

Very, very true.

Longclaw
02-17-2010, 04:32 AM
I was wondering who are the possible DE's we can draft in the second round. Wootton? Carrington? Odrick? Who is the better pro prospect? I think the Pats really need to address this to replace the void Seymour left.

AntoinCD
02-17-2010, 06:34 AM
I do think DE will be addressed especiall since Jarvis Green is probably gone as well. I wouldn't be overly surprised if someone like Jared Odrick is selected even in the first. Other names as you mentioned in the second would be Carrington, Wootten and Arthur Jones. Personally I think we have too many holes to take a pick that high on DE and would prefer to target a guy like Oghabaase in the 4th

Razor
02-17-2010, 07:07 AM
I'm with Antoin on this one. We have some other glaring needs that has to be adressed first:
OLB, OG/OC, WR, ILB.

Oghobaase in the fourth would be a dream come true.

nepg
02-17-2010, 08:12 AM
I was wondering who are the possible DE's we can draft in the second round. Wootton? Carrington? Odrick? Who is the better pro prospect? I think the Pats really need to address this to replace the void Seymour left.
Wootton is amazing. He's horribly underrated.

He's the best DL that's come out of a program that has produced very good DL talent the last 5 or so years...

nepg
02-17-2010, 08:22 AM
With 3 second round picks, would anyone be horribly offended if the Pats traded #22 for a 2011 first round pick (and an extra pick or two this year)?

This is a spot where we've seen them trade out of numerous times in the past, and to have 3 first round picks in 2011 (2 of which could easily be in the Top 10-15). Jacksonville strikes me as a candidate.

Nalej
02-17-2010, 09:00 AM
I wouldn't be too upset if we traded to 2011... I actually kinda expect it.
I expect it to be one of our 2nd round picks though... we'll see
Having 3 1st rd picks next year would be great but would we be able to afford it?
Will there be a rookie cap in place by then?

Razor
02-17-2010, 09:38 AM
I would be pissed if we traded any of our first four picks this year, since there are so many good prospects this year. It'll probably happen, but I'm going to be pissed no matter how good the deal is. I've finally decided who I want BB to select come april. Things might change after the Combine, but I doubt it..

1) Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas
Excellent allround prospect. Can rush the passer, plays the run well and is better than any other DE this year at dropping back into coverage. He could be great in the NFL.

2a) Brandon Spikes, ILB, Florida
As much as I like Gary Guyton, we need a thumper in the middle to pair With Mayo if his skills is to be utilized properly. Spikes also brings leadership, and while he is no Rolando McClain he isn't all that far away.

2b) Mardy Gilyard, WR, Cincinatti
As nalej pointed out in another thread, he looks a lot like Brandon Tate on film. But as I see it, that's not a bad thing. Gilyard might not be a true deep threat, but he is electric with the ball in his hands whether it's after the catch or as a returner.

2c) Jon Asamoah, OG, Illinois
With Neal old and injury prone (and most likely to retire) a replacement has to be found. There are a lot of opportunities here; either Kaczur could be moved to ROG allowing Light to play LT and Vollmer to play RT. Rich Orhnberger might get the job, but he has also worked as center and might take over for Koppen. But sooner or later (I prefer sooner) Vollmer will start at LT, and drafting Asamoah will be the answer to many problems with the offensive line.

There it is, Razors take at the first two round! What do you think about it? If it were to play out like this, our options in the fourth round would be:

DE: Vince Oghobaase
OLB: Lindsey Witten, George Selvie, Brandon Lang, Jason Worrilds
TE: Jimmy Graham, Colin Peek
CB: Walter McFadden, Walter Thurmond III, Javier Arenas
RB: LeGarette Blount, Montario Hardesty

In this scenario I'd prefer Oghobaase.

FlyingElvis
02-17-2010, 10:19 AM
I was wondering who are the possible DE's we can draft in the second round. Wootton? Carrington? Odrick? Who is the better pro prospect? I think the Pats really need to address this to replace the void Seymour left.

Odrick's stock is on the rise so I doubt he's available in round one. In fact, I would not be surprised to see his stock increase more after the combine/pro-day events, making him a potential candidate for our 1st rounder at 22 overall.

The guys you and AntoinCD mention are all possibilities, but I think we have a good group at D-line and may be best giving them the 2010 season to develop. The potential is definitely there for Brace, Pryor and even Adams to move into (or share) DE roles at the hybrid 3-4/4-3 looks we use.


***********

I'd be very happy with those 4 guys, Razor. I agree that, even if they have similar styles, Gilyard and Tate would be a nice WR tandem going forward. Once Randy moves on we need some talent. Quite frankly, there's always the possibility that one of the two could bust anyway. So having both can't hurt our chances at having at least one decent WR for the future.

As for the fourth rounder . . . see sig! :D

Nalej
02-17-2010, 12:11 PM
I like that mock but I still prefer LaFell over Gilyard. Randy going deep, Welker/Edelman in the slot and LaFell would be that big possession receiver.
It just completes our WR group. I like the divirsity much more then having 2 B.Tates.

I also want Blount in the 4th. I think he's a stud who is a steal even in the 2nd

ElectricEye
02-17-2010, 12:22 PM
I'm starting to come around on drafting a defensive linemen. Don't get me wrong, I'm still the leader of the OLB movement, but if Jarvis Green decides he wants to play in Kansas City(who would go after him harder than we would) then there's a hole there. Problem is none of the guys available around our first rounder really project well to being the type of 3-4 DE you spend a first on. Odrick is super overrated in my opinion, and is only going to become more so. Don't see him as anything more than a solid player at DE in a 3-4. Wooton's best fit is far and away in a 4-3, IMO. Also think he's a bit overrated too. Even going into the second, don't think there's much there either. Arthur Jones is one of the most underrated players in this draft class and I'm even willing to go as far to say he's a top twenty to twenty five talent, but he isn't really the classic gap control type. The guy I really like, but maybe because I know the least about him, is Carrington. He's going to rise pretty damn high though. Everybody think they're getting him in the second or third round. He could either stay there like Jarron Gilbert did, or rise like Clay Matthews(pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain emotional turmoil pain)did. But he projects the best from what I've seen a the Senior Bowl. Even though he has short arms, he can control blockers with relative ease and penetrate when he has to.

AntoinCD
02-17-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm starting to come around on drafting a defensive linemen. Don't get me wrong, I'm still the leader of the OLB movement, but if Jarvis Green decides he wants to play in Kansas City(who would go after him harder than we would) then there's a hole there. Problem is none of the guys available around our first rounder really project well to being the type of 3-4 DE you spend a first on. Odrick is super overrated in my opinion, and is only going to become more so. Don't see him as anything more than a solid player at DE in a 3-4. Wooton's best fit is far and away in a 4-3, IMO. Also think he's a bit overrated too. Even going into the second, don't think there's much there either. Arthur Jones is one of the most underrated players in this draft class and I'm even willing to go as far to say he's a top twenty to twenty five talent, but he isn't really the classic gap control type. The guy I really like, but maybe because I know the least about him, is Carrington. He's going to rise pretty damn high though. Everybody think they're getting him in the second or third round. He could either stay there like Jarron Gilbert did, or rise like Clay Matthews(pain pain pain pain pain pain pain pain emotional turmoil pain)did. But he projects the best from what I've seen a the Senior Bowl. Even though he has short arms, he can control blockers with relative ease and penetrate when he has to.

Yeah I agree with pretty much all that. I think Arthur Jones will slide due to injury concerns though. To me Corey Wooton is a poor mans Calais Campbell

FlyingElvis
02-17-2010, 01:15 PM
Is Greg Hardy a 3-4 DE candidate at all, and why / why not?

Also, along the same line of thought, why would (or wouldn't) guys like Pryor, Brace or even Adams be candidates for that DE spot?



I'm always intrigued by the guys who face the injury slide. Hardy was considered a top talent and had his stock tank due to injury. To me, the "injury concern" label seems a bit over used.

Obviously there are guys that should scare you b/c they don't seem to play through minor issues. But anyone can be severely injured at any time, especially with high speed collisions with 300 pounders.

AntoinCD
02-17-2010, 01:20 PM
I think Hardy's problem in being a 34 DE is he is much better at using his speed/strength/burst to get round the OT where as many times the 5 tech will need to be able to stand the OT up and get off the block, mainly to make plays in the run game. Players like Seymour where excellent at stacking and shedding blockers so they cant get to the next level therefore keeping the linebackers free.

The problem with Pryor and Brace is they are shorter with smaller arms but can get real low and play with leverage against guards. Ideally the DE should have nice long arms to keep the OT away from his body. I think Adams could play 5 tech

FlyingElvis
02-17-2010, 01:37 PM
So if Hardy shows at the combine that he can take on blockers does he become a good option at 3-4 DE? Or does it just increase his value to a 4-3 team b/c he would then look like a stud all-around DE against the run & pass?


I was surprised when Titus was cut. I suppose he's lost at this point, though I don't know what his contract status is with Cleveland. NVMD - looked it up and he was signed to a 2 year deal with the Browns. Not that he couldn't be cut, but BB already let him go so it's safe to say he's not going to cut it, either way.

nepg
02-17-2010, 02:26 PM
WTF? Hardy is a 3-4 OLB...nothing about him is a 3-4 DE...

ElectricEye
02-17-2010, 06:59 PM
It'll be a damn cold day in hell when Hardy plays 3-4 DE. He's just not the type. At all. He's a speed rusher all the way, even with the weight. That is to say, he isn't strictly a speed rusher, but he isn't the guy you look at in that light at all.

ElectricEye
02-17-2010, 07:03 PM
One thing we ALL need to realize, myself included; in the next ten years, we won't see a 3-4 defensive end as good as Richard Seymour. He defined the position. He might be the best EVER at that spot.

Longclaw
02-18-2010, 04:13 AM
One thing we ALL need to realize, myself included; in the next ten years, we won't see a 3-4 defensive end as good as Richard Seymour. He defined the position. He might be the best EVER at that spot.

Is there anyone in the draft you think fits the Richard Seymour mold? Carrington s/w ratio?

AntoinCD
02-18-2010, 05:00 AM
Is there anyone in the draft you think fits the Richard Seymour mold? Carrington s/w ratio?

Ndamukong Suh but he may be gone by 22 lol

ElectricEye
02-18-2010, 11:11 AM
Is there anyone in the draft you think fits the Richard Seymour mold? Carrington s/w ratio?

Nope. 6'6 310 pound guys that are quick, strong, and able to control gaps and stuff the run don't come around very often. Like CD said, maybe Suh a bit, but he'll be gone. We're never going to find another Richard Seymour, or even someone in that mold. Carrington could end up being a Bobby Hamilton type player though, and that's certainly not a bad thing.

Defsoul
02-18-2010, 04:35 PM
Cameron Heyward. He would have been my favorite 3-4 end in this years draft. If he continues where he left of, he will be a top 15 pick next year.

RealityCheck
02-18-2010, 04:36 PM
Ndamukong Suh but he may be gone by 22 lol
You nuts? He'll probably be there in our last 2nd rounder

descendency
02-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Ndamukong Suh but he may be gone by 22 lol

Because we are trading up to 21st to get him :rolleyes:

Morton
02-22-2010, 06:54 PM
Is there any chance that Brandon Graham will fall past #22 or is he basically a lock to be drafted by the Pats in the first round?

Seems like a classic Belichick player: non-stop motor, love of the game, dedication, prototypical 34 rush LB...

RealityCheck
02-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Is there any chance that Brandon Graham will fall past #22 or is he basically a lock to be drafted by the Pats in the first round?

Seems like a classic Belichick player: non-stop motor, love of the game, dedication, prototypical 34 rush LB...
If Kindle's there, I'd pass on Graham.

I'd take a look on Carrington or Odrick as well, DE is a bigger need than LB imo

descendency
02-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Brandon Graham lacks the prototypical size that a lot of people (including Belichick) look for and he doesn't have the arm length of a guy like a lamaar Woodley.

However, I guarantee you if the Patriots want him, they will have to take him at 22. There is zero chance of him being available at the Jaguars pick.

Also, Alex Carrington is not a first round pick. I'd say maybe the Titans 2nd rounder at earliest.

I disagree that DE is a bigger need than OLB, but I do agree that DE is a huge need. Mike Wright was getting pushed around by Jake Long. It was so bad that they moved Vince Wilfork over there. Clearly, DE is a need.

I'd love to see Brandon Graham then Maurkice Pouncey then Alex Carrington then finally Ed Dickson.

ElectricEye
02-22-2010, 09:14 PM
Is there any chance that Brandon Graham will fall past #22 or is he basically a lock to be drafted by the Pats in the first round?

Seems like a classic Belichick player: non-stop motor, love of the game, dedication, prototypical 34 rush LB...

I wish it was a lock, but it probably isn't. Belichick has passed on player like Graham time and time again. I agree he's a perfect fit, but we need our coaching staff to understand that first.

Nalej
02-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Brandon Graham lacks the prototypical size that a lot of people (including Belichick) look for and he doesn't have the arm length of a guy like a lamaar Woodley.

However, I guarantee you if the Patriots want him, they will have to take him at 22. There is zero chance of him being available at the Jaguars pick.

Also, Alex Carrington is not a first round pick. I'd say maybe the Titans 2nd rounder at earliest.

I disagree that DE is a bigger need than OLB, but I do agree that DE is a huge need. Mike Wright was getting pushed around by Jake Long. It was so bad that they moved Vince Wilfork over there. Clearly, DE is a need.

I'd love to see Brandon Graham then Maurkice Pouncey then Alex Carrington then finally Ed Dickson.

Who doesn't get tossed around by Jake Long?
OLB is a bigger need though I agree that DE needs to be addressed

ElectricEye
03-01-2010, 11:02 AM
Guys who stood out in OLB drills;

Greg Hardy(surprised the hell out of me how well he moved laterally with that extra weight)

Jerry Hughes

Sergio Kindle

Brandon Lang

Koa Misi

Antonio Coleman



Everson Griffen looked really bad.

Don Vito
03-01-2010, 03:38 PM
Hardy didn't put up great numbers in Indy, but I still think he has what it takes to be a 3-4 OLB. He is a great talent who is a gamechanger when on the field, staying healthy is his issue. I don't think he will be playing at 280+ if he can get healthy, if he stays around 265-270 thats where he'll be his most effective in my opinion. Thats what he was playing at his sophmore and junior years.

descendency
03-01-2010, 03:47 PM
Too bad Brandon Graham didn't participate (due to injury).

Don Vito
03-01-2010, 03:58 PM
Yeah I know I was curious to hear how he was going to do.

ElectricEye
03-01-2010, 08:10 PM
Just some quick follow up stuff on that; Kindle's experience playing OLB really showed during the position drills. He had no trouble flicking him hips and running.

Misi also looked very natural doing that type of stuff, very smooth. Didn't have the type of burst some guys displayed though.

Lang was a little stiff, but he wasn't caught out of position like some guys were.

Hughes really shined. I'm big on this guy as a 3-4 convert, and he affirmed it in drills. Smooth.

Hardy was surprising. After the bad 40, I expected him to look out of place in linebacker drills, but he really didn't. Smooth and fluid. Didn't look slow either. Despite hearing that the weight he was putting on was solid, he looked a bit out of shape and it probably hurt him. He'll have to get down to 255-265 to play OLB effectively, but he was unusually slick in coverage.

proshoota25
03-01-2010, 08:49 PM
i love hughes as well, and think he would be perfect for us. but again, he is kind of short (i think he measured 6'1) and BB would again have to love him to pick him. i think we may trade up for kindle, just a hunch.

Don Vito
03-01-2010, 11:53 PM
One thing we ALL need to realize, myself included; in the next ten years, we won't see a 3-4 defensive end as good as Richard Seymour. He defined the position. He might be the best EVER at that spot.

Yeah Seymour was a rare talent for the position, he could have been a monster in a 4-3 but he was the prototypical 3-4 end prospect and was utterly dominant at the position in the NFL. Guys like Stroud, John Henderson, Kevin Williams, and maybe even Haynesworth all could have been monster 3-4 ends if drafted by 3-4 teams but they played in 4-3's there whole careers.

descendency
03-02-2010, 01:14 AM
Everson Griffen looked really bad.

He's a LDE. I never bought into his over-rated athleticism. He moves well for a guy his size, but not well enough for an OLB. He has a great LDE build.

Razor
03-02-2010, 03:42 AM
I don't get why people are so high on Jerry Hughes. Sure he has a lot of sacks, TFLs etc, but when you look at his film most of his production comes when playing LDE. I've got the same problem with Derrick Morgan. If you can't get to the QB playing RDE in college, how the hell are you going to do it in the NFL?! If he's there at #53 sure why not take him and see how things work out. But before that I wouldn't touch him.
Brandon Spikes had a bad Combine, but his film and production doesn't lie. I think he is the perfect fit for us as a SILB. I would still take him with the first second rounder.
Kindle was a beast at the Combine - unfortunatly. Unless the Tuna is completely in love with a NT, Graham or Bryant I'm certain that Kindle will be the pick for the Phins. He compares to DeMarcus Ware in a lot of areas, something that I'm sure Parells will have noticed by now. If he's not there at #22 I hope BB will trade down or go BPA. Not a lot of linebackers with great value at that point.
I agree that Seymour defined the 5-tech position over the last 9 seasons. I doubt that we'll ever get someone that good again tbh. However, there are a couple of guys in the draft I like as a 5-tech: Carrington, Oghobaase, Odrick and Clifton Geathers. I don't know much about Geathers, but I like his measurables and he would be worth taking a flyer on in the late rounds.