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thenewfeature06
08-05-2009, 08:52 AM
Eli and the Giants have agreed to a 6 year 97.5 mil contract making him the highest paid according to mort

link : http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4378407

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 08:55 AM
Just read that too.. Let's how the contract is structured. Plus, it's the market for a franchise qb. I bet Cutler and Matt Ryan, make even more, especially Cutler. As long as the rookie QBs, who never play a down make a boat load of money, then the proven guys will push the price higher. And IF sanchez or Stafford get good, then they will shatter both extensions as well.

no bare feet
08-05-2009, 08:57 AM
Interesting number. I guess thats what the market calls for.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm pleased with the contract. Thats the going rate for franchise qbs, they don't come cheap.

The next guy will make even more. Thats just how it is.

I was worried it would get up to 120 mill so 97.5 is very pleasing to me.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 09:41 AM
Imagine the price tag if Manning had to carry the team sometimes.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 09:41 AM
It's a fine deal. 35M guaranteed is what I've read.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 09:43 AM
I'm pleased with the contract. Thats the going rate for franchise qbs, they don't come cheap.

The next guy will make even more. Thats just how it is.

I was worried it would get up to 120 mill so 97.5 is very pleasing to me.

I wonder if the contract starts immediately or if it is one of those contracts that start after this season on his current contract. Tuck's contract was like that I believe. He signed his extension right before the Super Bowl run, but I don't think the actual new contract kicked in until this year. If Eli's is like that, I'd be extremely happy with the deal.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 09:46 AM
I wonder if the contract starts immediately or if it is one of those contracts that start after this season on his current contract. Tuck's contract was like that I believe. He signed his extension right before the Super Bowl run, but I don't think the actual new contract kicked in until this year. If Eli's is like that, I'd be extremely happy with the deal.

They kept Eli's last year on the current contract so he is actually signed for 7 years.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 09:46 AM
Imagine the price tag if Manning had to carry the team sometimes.

I am sure that's factored in there, lol. Let's not forgot we had to fire 2 idiotic coordinators that came in with Coughlin, John Hufangel and on the defensive side of the ball Tim Lewis.

Lewis was the mastermind of being allergic to blitzing which allowed you guys to set up a Akers FG to win it in the playoffs the first time around.

Thank god both fools got fired.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 09:48 AM
They kept Eli's last year on the current contract so he is actually signed for 7 years.

That's big. I like that Jerry keeps doing it. Your essentially signing Eli in 2010 for what the market is in 2009. Tuck's contract was brilliant.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 09:49 AM
That's big. I like that Jerry keeps doing it. Your essentially signing Eli in 2010 for what the market is in 2009. Tuck's contract was brilliant.

Jerry is not doing anything.. The capologist/contract guy is Kevin Abrams, i believe. That guy is the most under rated guy in the organization..

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 09:49 AM
I am sure that's factored in there, lol. Let's not forgot we had to fire 2 idiotic coordinators that came in with Coughlin, John Hufangel and on the defensive side of the ball Tim Lewis.

Lewis was the mastermind of being allergic to blitzing which allowed you guys to set up a Akers FG to win it in the playoffs the first time around.

Thank god both fools got fired.

Also the fact that Carlos Emmons basically had the lateral movement of my grandmother at that point in time helped the Eagles in that last drive.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 09:50 AM
That's big. I like that Jerry keeps doing it. Your essentially signing Eli in 2010 for what the market is in 2009. Tuck's contract was brilliant.

Correct if we had to sign him when he were to become a FA then I bet this contract would have been $20 million larger.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 09:51 AM
Also the fact that Carlos Emmons basically had the lateral movement of my grandmother at that point in time helped the Eagles in that last drive.

Not even that, Lewis just played zone, with a 7 yard cushion, and the Eagles moved the ball with ease.. As soon as Eli tied it up, I knew we'd lose because Lewis had that issue all season long, where no lead or tie was safe.

BeerBaron
08-05-2009, 09:51 AM
He'll only be highest paid until the next big time QB signs.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 09:54 AM
Correct if we had to sign him when he were to become a FA then I bet this contract would have been $20 million larger.

That's always the case. But even when players sign these extensions, in most cases the current contract is just ripped up and they immediately play under the new contract.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2009, 09:59 AM
Imagine the price tag if Manning had to carry the team sometimes.

Like during our SB run when we averaged 3.5 yards a carry?

bigbluedefense
08-05-2009, 10:00 AM
He'll only be highest paid until the next big time QB signs.

Exactly. It wouldn't shock me if Cutler makes more when its his time. Thats just how these things go.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 10:05 AM
Exactly. It wouldn't shock me if Cutler makes more when its his time. Thats just how these things go.

Yup, next QB that signs or needs an extension will break that record..

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 10:07 AM
Stafford signed for more guaranteed money than Eli.

princefielder28
08-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Like during our SB run when we averaged 3.5 yards a carry?

Outside of that four game stretch his play has not warranted a contract of this magnitude. I know "it's the going rate" but Eli isn't worth this kind of dough.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 10:13 AM
There are 5 current QB's that have won a Super Bowl. 2 of them are under 30. Eli has brought us to the playoffs ever year he has been our starting QB. If you don't think if Eli were a FA that more than half the teams in the NFL would have been fighting to sign this guy for much more than this then you're mistaken.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:14 AM
Like during our SB run when we averaged 3.5 yards a carry?

Yeah, the same SB run where your defense ******* ruined people.

TitleTown088
08-05-2009, 10:14 AM
There are 5 current QB's that have won a Super Bowl. 2 of them are under 30. Eli has brought us to the playoffs ever year he has been our starting QB.
Uhhh. I this displeases me. I hate hearing this argument. Eli didn't win the super bowl, the Giants did.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:15 AM
There are 5 current QB's that have won a Super Bowl. 2 of them are under 30. Eli has brought us to the playoffs ever year he has been our starting QB. If you don't think if Eli were a FA that more than half the teams in the NFL would have been fighting to sign this guy for much more than this then you're mistaken.

I doubt they'd give him $97.5 million. There's no ******* way you can justify this guy making more than his brother.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:16 AM
Uhhh. I this displeases me. I hate hearing this argument. Eli didn't win the super bowl, the Giants did.

Trent Dilfer won the Super Bowl, not the Ravens.

wicket
08-05-2009, 10:16 AM
Stafford signed for more guaranteed money than Eli.

even though eli is no god and stafford is an exceptional draft prospect (imo) that is just wrong

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 10:17 AM
I doubt they'd give him $97.5 million. There's no ******* way you can justify this guy making more than his brother.

You can easily. Peyton signed his contract 3 or 4 years ago? If Peyton was in the last year of his contract now, of course he would get more. This is just the economics of the NFL. At the time Peyton made the most. Or Vick did, I forget.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:18 AM
You can easily. Peyton signed his contract 3 or 4 years ago? If Peyton was in the last year of his contract now, of course he would get more. This is just the economics of the NFL.

Let me re-phrase it. There's no ******* way you can justify Eli making more than Peyton unless you have your head jammed completely up Eli's ass.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Let me re-phrase it. There's no ******* way you can justify Eli making more than Peyton unless you have your head jammed completely up Eli's ass.

Any QB who is in the top third at their position who signs a contract in the next few years will make more than Peyton. Has nothing to do with Eli and everything to do with the market in the NFL. If you can't grasp that, then I suggest you pull your head out of your own ass.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 10:22 AM
Yes the Giants as a team won a Super Bowl but the QB is the most important player on the team. Most Giants fans are happy with it so that's all that really matters. People are going to hate on Eli so I'm used to it.

TitleTown088
08-05-2009, 10:22 AM
At the time Peyton made the most. Or Vick did, I forget.
At the time, Peyton was a very good QB. At the present time, Eli is not a very good QB.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:23 AM
Any QB who is in the top third at their position who signs a contract in the next few years will make more than Peyton. Has nothing to do with Eli and everything to do with the market in the NFL. If you can't grasp that, then I suggest you pull your head out of your own ass.

Problem is, Eli's not half the QB that Peyton is. Regardless of when the player signed his contract, Eli should never, ever, under any circumstances, be making more money than Peyton. When's the last time Eli truly took over a game without having a great defense and a good running game to fall back on? Any indications that this guy is truly an elite QB went down the shitter last season as soon as Plaxico went down.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:23 AM
Yes the Giants as a team won a Super Bowl but the QB is the most important player on the team. Most Giants fans are happy with it so that's all that really matters. People are going to hate on Eli so I'm used to it.

But in the Super Bowl run, he wasn't even close to the most important player on the team.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 10:25 AM
Problem is, Eli's not half the QB that Peyton is. Regardless of when the player signed his contract, Eli should never, ever, under any circumstances, be making more money than Peyton. When's the last time Eli truly took over a game without having a great defense and a good running game to fall back on? Any indications that this guy is truly an elite QB went down the shitter last season as soon as Plaxico went down.

Donovan isn't half the the QB Peyton is either, but if 2009 was his last season under contract and he signed an extension, this is what he would be getting too.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 10:26 AM
But in the Super Bowl run, he wasn't even close to the most important player on the team.

That is not true at all. He put us in position in the 4th quarter to win the Super Bowl. He made countless big throws in that quarter and in the whole playoff run.

Number 10
08-05-2009, 10:30 AM
Jug-

We have tried explaining the simplest of economic theories to some people and they cannot grasp it. Let it go...it's mostly I-hate-the-Giants hatred anyway.

NFL contracts are so far over the heads of even the intense fans, it isn't even worth diving into a deep discussion about. If you look at the years and the salary alone, yes Eli is being vastly overpaid. But when one considers the future of the NFL finances, the market, and the rising costs we are watching grow at a rapid rate year by year, this isn't something to throw a hissy fit about.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:30 AM
'08 season

T-10th in touchdowns
T-11th in INT
14th in passer rating
19th in completion %
20th in yards per play
24th in pass plays of 40+
25th in pass plays of 20+

Man, this really screams out "BEST QB IN THE GAME!".

Sniper
08-05-2009, 10:32 AM
Donovan isn't half the the QB Peyton is either, but if 2009 was his last season under contract and he signed an extension, this is what he would be getting too.

Does that make it right?

That is not true at all. He put us in position in the 4th quarter to win the Super Bowl. He made countless big throws in that quarter and in the whole playoff run.

You wouldn't even have smelled the Super Bowl or the fourth quarter of it if it weren't for the defense and the offensive line.

Let it go...it's mostly I-hate-the-Giants hatred anyway.

The "us against the world" and "EVERYONE HATEZ US CUZ WE'RE THE ROXORZZZZZ" thing was overdone in 2007.

Number 10
08-05-2009, 10:35 AM
Sniper I don't want to get in one of your dumb petty arguments. I understand the initial reaction to the contract and I don't look down on you for it. I just simply think you aren't fully understanding whats going on here, thats all.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 10:35 AM
Does that make it right?

Maybe not. But it's the current system we have in the NFL. If you have a problem with it's economics than that's a completely different topic. I agree in a sense. Personally in my opinion first round draft picks make too much, which leads to veterans wanting more money when they approach free agency.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Maybe not. But it's the current system we have in the NFL. If you have a problem with it's economics than that's a completely different topic. I agree in a sense. Personally in my opinion first round draft picks make too much, which leads to veterans wanting more money when they approach free agency.

Jughead is 100% right. Untill they can fix this part of the system then this is how the NFL works.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 10:44 AM
Outside of that four game stretch his play has not warranted a contract of this magnitude. I know "it's the going rate" but Eli isn't worth this kind of dough.

Yeah he is, but his stats won't reflect it because we don't play in a Run N shoot, Air Croyell, or WCO offense. It's a regular pro style offense which favors running the ball. Not only that we had the worst OC on the face off the earth when we drafted Eli. We fired him and he is now in canada, but the amount of stuff he endured in NY, plus his ability to be clutch for us is priceless.

But again, if Vick can get a 113 or 130 million deal, then a deal like this for someone who deserves it isn't far fetched. Now, I do think it's alot of money, but that's the going rate unfortunetly. The next franchise QB who wants an extension will break this, so it's not a big deal.

Bigburt63
08-05-2009, 10:44 AM
I think it's ridiculous that Eli is the highest paid player in the game, because I don't think he is anywhere near the best player at his own position, nevermind the best player. That being said, I understand that QB's make more money, and that the system in and of itself is so messed up to allow the contracts to keep skyrocketing like this and have unproven rookies and lesser players make more than those at the top of their position. Unfortunately as other have said, that is the current economic state of the NFL.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 11:03 AM
this is my take:

in 2-4 years, this will seem like a steal for a franchise QB. This money is huge now, but realistically, in the open market, he would've gotten so much more. I'm torn, because it is a **** load of money, but really, it's giving the Giants their QB for the next 7 years with no worries. Because face it, Eli's too stupid to get into off the field problems, if that makes sense. While he's no super stud QB, he does what the Giants need him to do. He's a solid, young, Super Bowl winner QB. He doesn't need to win us the games, just do what he did during that Super Bowl run and not lose it for us. He's experienced in the postseason (considering he's never missed it as a starter) and has pretty much handled the beast that is the NY media. I'm glad we got him locked up, and this will be pretty cheap compared to what some of the next QB deals will be.

and to be fair, this thread has been all Giants fans and 2 pretty well-known Eli haters. I'm just sayin'...

FlyingElvis
08-05-2009, 11:07 AM
It is the standard in the NFL. Each newly signed contract tends to make a player the highest paid at his position. Usually, it's the true stud FA, which is not the case with Eli. But the position warrants it b/c there are not many good QBs.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:07 AM
this is my take:

in 2-4 years, this will seem like a steal for a franchise QB.

<snip>

He doesn't need to win us the games

That's what a franchise QB is supposed to do.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 11:09 AM
That's what a franchise QB is supposed to do.

false. a franchise QB is supposed to be the figure head of the team, be there for a long time and win games. that's what Eli is and does.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:11 AM
false. a franchise QB is supposed to be the figure head of the team, be there for a long time and win games. that's what Eli is and does.

A franchise QB should be able to put the team on his back when all else is failing and lead them to victory. Eli still hasn't proved that he can win without an elite WR and a fantastic running game.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 11:11 AM
Yeah, the same SB run where your defense ******* ruined people.

Yeah but you need to score points.. We nearly lost the GB game in the playoffs, and our defense was a pubic hair away from losing to dallas.. Then in the superbowl, after all our defense was doing we still needed our offense to make plays, because the pats were close.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:12 AM
A franchise QB should be able to put the team on his back when all else is failing and lead them to victory. Eli still hasn't proved that he can win without an elite WR and a fantastic running game.

Neither has Peyton technically. Who has? Brady thats about it. All winning QBs are surrounded by good players.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2009, 11:13 AM
Outside of that four game stretch his play has not warranted a contract of this magnitude. I know "it's the going rate" but Eli isn't worth this kind of dough.

Eli Manning has made the playoffs every year he has started at qb. Only Peyton Manning can say the same over the past 4 years.

And lets not forget, Eli wasn't handed a great team. The Giants were godawful when he became our qb. He's a big reason why we've consistently made the playoffs.

Eli obviously won the SB, and was SB mvp.

He's established himself as a clutch qb already.

Forget numbers. Thats the problem with today's perception of players. We're so entrenched in fantasy football that we forget what really makes a franchise quarterback. Thats what I realized about Ben Roethlisberger. I used to think he was overrated, but I don't anymore. He's a winner, and he's clutch. Thats what a real franchise qb is all about.

Yeah, the same SB run where your defense ******* ruined people.

I don't buy that. Eli isn't the first qb to have an great defense. The Steelers, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, they all have similar defenses. Only the Steelers sealed the deal out of those teams.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:15 AM
Every great QB has a big time WR so the point that Eli needs to prove he could do it without a #1 is a joke. Take Rice away from Montana and Young and see how they do.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:16 AM
I don't buy that. Eli isn't the first qb to have an great defense. The Steelers, Chargers, Eagles, Cowboys, they all have similar defenses. Only the Steelers sealed the deal out of those teams.

And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 11:17 AM
A franchise QB should be able to put the team on his back when all else is failing and lead them to victory. Eli still hasn't proved that he can win without an elite WR and a fantastic running game.

well, i think we can agree to disagree. what you just described to me is a stud, elite QB, possibly a HOF'er.

But then again, Eli's career is still young and the fact of the matter is, he hasn't had to do that very often. He's done it with great comebacks ala Denver a few years ago and that massive whacky comeback game against Philly as well. Eli's the face of the franchise and has won a Super Bowl and will be here a long time.To me, that's a franchise QB.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Every great QB has a big time WR so the point that Eli needs to prove he could do it without a #1 is a joke.

I'm sorry, but when you're the highest-paid player in the league, I expect you to be able to do things on your own. Who were the great WRs during Tom Brady's Super Bowl wins?

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:18 AM
well, i think we can agree to disagree. what you just described to me is a stud, elite QB, possibly a HOF'er.

Well, if you're making a guy the highest-paid player in a league with a bunch of overpaid players, shouldn't he be a stud, elite QB, HOFer?

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 11:19 AM
And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.

but you can bet your butt when Rivers signs his new deal, it'll be higher than Eli's. that's how the NFL's economy is working right now.

and dont give me that, the Chargers have a very good D and freaking Tomlinson. they didn't win with him in his prime.

and you've got Westbrook and have had some of the better defenses I've seen in a while, the Eagles had their chance, and blew it in the super bowl.

people forget, we started Geoffery Pope against Dallas. I'm pretty sure he hasn't played a snap since that game during that run...

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm sorry, but when you're the highest-paid player in the league, I expect you to be able to do things on your own. Who were the great WRs during Tom Brady's Super Bowl wins?

Yeah as Jughead said before Brady is probably the #1 exception. Besides that everyone has had a big name WR.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:21 AM
Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 11:22 AM
Well, if you're making a guy the highest-paid player in a league with a bunch of overpaid players, shouldn't he be a stud, elite QB, HOFer?

He shouldn't be the highest paid player in the league. I dont believe he should be, but, he won't be the highest paid player for long. In 2-4 years, this contract will just look average for young starting QB's. Rivers' and probably Cutler's deals will blow Eli's out of the water

but from the Giants standpoint, who cares? He got his money, we keep our QB. We keep our figurehead and we move on. He's the face of our franchise and honestly, I dont think Reese and Abrams give a damn if Eli's the highest paid or not, we got our guy who led the offense that got us a ring.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:22 AM
but you can bet your butt when Rivers signs his new deal, it'll be higher than Eli's. that's how the NFL's economy is working right now.

And it will still be moronic.

and dont give me that, the Chargers have a very good D and freaking Tomlinson. they didn't win with him in his prime.

The defense isn't as good as the Giants', and neither is the run game. Tomlinson's only one guy. Plus, who's SD's elite receiver?

and you've got Westbrook and have had some of the better defenses I've seen in a while, the Eagles had their chance, and blew it in the super bowl.

Having Westbrook doesn't mean we run the ball. You know damn well that we don't run the ball.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.

If I recall McNabb was throwing up in the huddle in the 4th quarter. Instead of making the neccesary plays.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:24 AM
Don't Eagles fans always complain they need a #1 WR for Donovan? Why is it that Eli doesn't work with the same standard? When Donovan had a great defense, a #1 WR, and a great running game he didn't win the Super Bowl so I don't want to hear it.

Where's this great running game you speak of? The one that was 24th in the league in yards per game in 2004? Don't let facts get in the way of a good time.

Donovan's done a hell of a lot more with average receivers than Eli has done with the same caliber of receivers. See second half of season, 2008.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 11:28 AM
And none of Phil Rivers, Donovan McNabb and Tony Romo deserve to be the highest-paid player in the game. Give either Rivers or McNabb that type of running game to go with the defense and a #1 target and both of them win the Super Bowl.

What is this a mix and match now? Ok.. Give us Randy Moss, trade Gilbride, for Ken Whisenhunt, or Cam Cameron like Rivers and Ben had to groom them, and get rid of Tim Lewis and hired spags from the beginning and we could have won a lot more superbowls.. And I would like to build a time machine and get Jerry Rice in his prime.. Is that asking too much?

It is, what it is, no need to play let's pretend.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:31 AM
What is this a mix and match now?

No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:34 AM
No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.

You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:36 AM
You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.

...with a less talented Eagles team.

Anyway, this discussion's going nowhere. Congrats on drastically overpaying for an average QB. We'll see how it works out.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 11:37 AM
No, it's illustrating that there a lot of QBs who could have done the same job as Manning.

It's not illustrating anything because it hasn't happened.. All this is showing is your annoyed for some godly reason and you're not making any sense on this specific issue.

Bigburt63
08-05-2009, 11:37 AM
You don't know that. Donovan couldn't do what he did what he had a shot against the Pats. An arguably less talented Pats team too.

Less talented offensive Pats team, but a more talented defensive Pats team.

Eli, IMO, is not a top 5 QB, but to say he isn't good is going overboard. His contract is ridiculous now, especially when comparing him to other players at his position, but that is how the contracts in the NFL are going. Until there is a rookie scale and/or a halt in the ever rising salary cap, it will continue on this way, or unless there is a max contract like in the NBA.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 11:43 AM
Less talented offensive Pats team, but a more talented defensive Pats team.

Eli, IMO, is not a top 5 QB, but to say he isn't good is going overboard. His contract is ridiculous now, especially when comparing him to other players at his position, but that is how the contracts in the NFL are going. Until there is a rookie scale and/or a halt in the ever rising salary cap, it will continue on this way, or unless there is a max contract like in the NBA.

Bingo! That's what the Eli haters on this board and our own giants MB need to realize. This money is based on his accomplishments for the team AND because of the position he plays. Someone else will come along and beat it. Is it too much? yeah, but that's the market..

Brett Favre (10 years, $101 million from Green Bay in 2001), Drew Bledsoe (10 years, $103 million from New England in 2001), Donovan McNabb (12 years, $115 million from Philadelphia in 2002), Daunte Culpepper (10 years, $102 million from Minnesota in 2003), Michael Vick (10 ears, $130 million from Atlanta in 2004), Carson Palmer (nine-years, $118.75 million from Cincinnati in 2005), and Ben Roethlisberger (eight years, $102 million from Pittsburgh in 2008)

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:45 AM
It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:46 AM
Where's this great running game you speak of? The one that was 24th in the league in yards per game in 2004? Don't let facts get in the way of a good time.

Donovan's done a hell of a lot more with average receivers than Eli has done with the same caliber of receivers. See second half of season, 2008.

You still averaged 4.4 yards a carry that year good for 10th in the NFL. Maybe Reid should have pounded the run more?

Bigburt63
08-05-2009, 11:47 AM
It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.

It's all relative though, as (generally) the more a contract is worth, the more guaranteed money is given. So even though the max contract is never reached, it is still more valuable than the next highest amount.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:48 AM
It also should be noted, that none of those players earned the complete value of those contracts just listed. Very few NFL players ever do.

Well Eli will receive every dollar in this contract. I'm actually suprised at the length of the deal. I thought it would be a 10 year thing to spread out the cap number.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:49 AM
It's all relative though, as (generally) the more a contract is worth, the more guaranteed money is given.

Of course but neither Vick, Favre, Bledsoe, or Culpepper earned over 100 million on that contract. McNabb won't reach 115. And they're all grossly backloaded so most of those guys probably ever even broke 80 million on those contracts.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:49 AM
You still averaged 4.4 yards a carry that year good for 10th in the NFL. Maybe Reid should have pounded the run more?

Well, obviously he should have. He should do it every year. This is nothing new.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, obviously he should have. He should do it every year. This is nothing new.

Ok so then McNabb did have a running game, a passing game, and an above average defense buy hey don't let the facts get in the way.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:51 AM
You still averaged 4.4 yards a carry that year good for 10th in the NFL. Maybe Reid should have pounded the run more?

It doesn't matter. Sniper will praise the rest of our team so much to discredit Eli, but back in the run he probably picked against us every game and gave the Giants no shot entering the playoffs.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:52 AM
Well Eli will receive every dollar in this contract. I'm actually suprised at the length of the deal. I thought it would be a 10 year thing to spread out the cap number.

He may, he may not. Things get restructured, years get cut off to make another extension.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:54 AM
Ok so then McNabb did have a running game, a passing game, and an above average defense buy hey don't let the facts get in the way.

He had a running game that was effective when deployed, but you're basically projecting that the running game would have been as effective as the Giants' if they ran it as much. That's not a direct correlation. Don't let facts get in the way of a good time.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 11:55 AM
It doesn't matter. Sniper will praise the rest of our team so much to discredit Eli, but back in the run he probably picked against us every game and gave the Giants no shot entering the playoffs.

Considering they were all road games, I don't think it was too much of a stretch to pick against you. Good job, you defied the odds. You won an improbable Super Bowl. That doesn't make Eli the best player in the NFL.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 11:58 AM
Considering they were all road games, I don't think it was too much of a stretch to pick against you. Good job, you defied the odds. You won an improbable Super Bowl. That doesn't make Eli the best player in the NFL.

No one is saying he's the best player in the NFL. You can't get it out of your head that the highest paid player in the NFL doesn't mean he's the best. The higest paid player at your position just means you're one of the better players at that position and happened to approach free agency in your prime.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 12:04 PM
Considering they were all road games, I don't think it was too much of a stretch to pick against you. Good job, you defied the odds. You won an improbable Super Bowl. That doesn't make Eli the best player in the NFL.

Doesn't have to be.. Cost of being a franchise QB in the NFL playing in NY. At the end of the day the reason why he got paid is because he does what the franchise asks of him. He does it with class, and he has shown that he is a clutch QB who can handle pressure and win the superbowl.

I don't care if he is # 1 or # 10. Can we win a superbowl with him? Is he clutch when the chips are down on the table? The answer is yes. After that I factor in the market for franchise qbs, and it explains why he got paid so much.

In the future so other guy like Cutler, or Ryan will come along and beat that extension. That's how the position gets paid.

FlyingElvis
08-05-2009, 12:28 PM
Well, if you're making a guy the highest-paid player in a league with a bunch of overpaid players, shouldn't he be a stud, elite QB, HOFer?
If they're all overpaid, does it matter who's getting which incremental increase? Big Ben is good but I wouldn't call him a "stud, elite QB, HOFer" by any stretch. His contract made him the highest paid just a year or two ago. This contract is no different.

No one is saying he's the best player in the NFL. You can't get it out of your head that the highest paid player in the NFL doesn't mean he's the best. The higest paid player at your position just means you're one of the better players at that position and happened to approach free agency in your prime.

how does that saying go . . . winner winner something or other . . .

Dam8610
08-05-2009, 12:30 PM
Eli got as much guaranteed as Peyton did 5 years ago over one less season. Eli may be highest paid per season, but in terms of overall contact value, several QBs have that deal beat, including McNabb, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Peyton, etc.

TitleTown088
08-05-2009, 12:36 PM
I didn't see this mentioned so I thought I would go ahead and mention it.

While the contract is rather large, a good part of it is incentive based. This means that for those who say it was too big because Eli isn't a good QB need to consider that he won't make a good deal of the contract unless he plays very well ( which the li haters say won't happen).

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Makes me feel great about Romo's 6 year, $67.5M deal. That's for sure.

We'll need it though. Ware is gonna break the bank.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 12:45 PM
I didn't see this mentioned so I thought I would go ahead and mention it.

While the contract is rather large, a good part of it is incentive based. This means that for those who say it was too big because Eli isn't a good QB need to consider that he won't make a good deal of the contract unless he plays very well ( which the li haters say won't happen).
Do you know what those incentive bench marks are? Or are you just talking?

Brothgar
08-05-2009, 12:50 PM
I think that people forget that it is not the actual dollars and cents of the new contract that matter as much as the % of the cap that contract actually uses.

Eli Manning's contract 2009: 6 years 97.5 Mil. 35 guaranteed
let us for the sake of argument say that he does go ahead and make 75% of
Guaranteed money in 2009: ~5.83 Mil
Likely to be obtained money: ~5.20 Mil
Total guesstimated cap hit: 11.03 Mil

NFL 2009 Salary cap figure: ~$127,000,000

Guesstimated salary cap %: ~5.00%

Or if we use the Media's 15.3 Mil per year figure
Estimated salary cap %: ~12.04

In 2004 the Colts gave Peyton Manning a 7 year 99.2 Mil contract. The media figure for that was 14.17 Mil per year in a time when the salary cap was a meager 34.6 Mil

Media figure: 14.17 Mil
2004 Salary Cap: 34.6 Mil
Estimated salary cap %: 38.9%

so when you look at it in terms of salary cap percentages (which is really how you should look at things because in the NFL, money really isn't the limiting factor as much as cap dollars.) Peyton was/is considered vastly more important than Eli ever was.

sources
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/08/ny_giants_on_the_verge_of_bloc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap#Salary_cap_in_the_NFL
http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

CC.SD
08-05-2009, 12:52 PM
Over/under on Rivers' contract? I say under.

Also, everyone is forgetting that Ramses Barden is a Giant and Eli is about to take the next step as a result.

Brothgar
08-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Over/under on Rivers' contract? I say under.

Also, everyone is forgetting that Ramses Barden is a Giant and Eli is about to take the next step as a result.

While I did forget about Ramses Barden being a Giant (a player I really, really like) it is going to take time for him to come into his own in the league.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Over/under on Rivers' contract? I say under.

Also, everyone is forgetting that Ramses Barden is a Giant and Eli is about to take the next step as a result.
Easily under. Teams reward their QBs based off accomplishment. Eli has a ring. Rivers doesn't even have a playoff win, does he? Plus, Eli plays for a big market team. There's a reason he refused to play for the Chargers.

Shane P. Hallam
08-05-2009, 12:59 PM
And you pay your franchise QB. No matter what his style is, Eli does get it done, he wins games. If the Giants only had David Carr as their QB, they would be doing much much worse.

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 01:00 PM
Over/under on Rivers' contract? I say under.

Also, everyone is forgetting that Ramses Barden is a Giant and Eli is about to take the next step as a result.

And at the end of the day, who's the better quarterback?

Rivers. Hands down.

drowe
08-05-2009, 01:00 PM
yikes. glad the Packers locked up Rodgers before this. because if Eli Manning gets that kind of contract, imagine what the going rate for a GOOD QB will be.

Brothgar
08-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Easily under. Teams reward their QBs based off accomplishment. Eli has a ring. Rivers doesn't even have a playoff win, does he? Plus, Eli plays for a big market team. There's a reason he refused to play for the Chargers.

Rivers has a playoff win I think he beat Indy one year then lost in the next round.

CC.SD
08-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Easily under. Teams reward their QBs based off accomplishment. Eli has a ring. Rivers doesn't even have a playoff win, does he? Plus, Eli plays for a big market team. There's a reason he refused to play for the Chargers.


You're so much better than that D.

Titans, Colts, 07. Colts 08. 3 years as a starter.

Anyway I'm definitely in favor of this Eli contract. Honestly this is the market and the Giants had no choice. This deal was inevitable and will work out for both sides.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 01:13 PM
You're so much better than that D.

Titans, Colts, 07. Colts 08. 3 years as a starter.

Anyway I'm definitely in favor of this Eli contract. Honestly this is the market and the Giants had no choice. This deal was inevitable and will work out for both sides.
Thanks. ...but I don't remember. Regardless, I think Rivers is a better QB and will get paid less based off accomplishment, market, and overall stinginess of the team.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 01:16 PM
Thanks. ...but I don't remember. Regardless, I think Rivers is a better QB and will get paid less based off accomplishment, market, and overall stinginess of the team.

Who is the cap guy for the Chargers? We actually have a damn good guy in Kevin Abrams.

CC.SD
08-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Who is the cap guy for the Chargers? We actually have a damn good guy in Kevin Abrams.

Ed McGuire I believe. He's been pretty money for a while now but obviously with a ton of UFA coming up he has his work cut out for him. Rivers' is actually quoted in an interview saying "It won't be an issue" this last week, and if we have to cut the rest of the team, Philip will stay. He is AJ's golden boy.

Merriman? Well thank you franchise tag. Would be huge to keep Vincent Jackson as well.

ChezPower4
08-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Wow.... Not worth it IMO

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 01:27 PM
Ed McGuire I believe. He's been pretty money for a while now but obviously with a ton of UFA coming up he has his work cut out for him. Rivers' is actually quoted in an interview saying "It won't be an issue" this last week, and if we have to cut the rest of the team, Philip will stay. He is AJ's golden boy.

Merriman? Well thank you franchise tag. Would be huge to keep Vincent Jackson as well.
We're talking about a team that lowballed LT and let Michael Turner go. . .

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 01:28 PM
Wow.... Not worth it IMO
That's the going cost for the best Bus Driver QB in the league though.

Halsey
08-05-2009, 01:31 PM
Some people just don't like Eli and have wanted him to fail for a long time. He's viewed as growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth, stuck up and aloof by many. Refusing to play for the Chargers didn't help his popularity. Personally I think he's a solid starting QB who still has upside. I think the Giants know what they're doing. They've been to the playoffs every year he's been the full time starter.

MasterShake
08-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Eli is a franchise QB, but he is like a blue-light special bargain-basement franchise QB. He is prone to bonehead moves on a consistent basis. Its nice to have stability at QB, but I would doubt Eli could get them another championship.

Shane P. Hallam
08-05-2009, 01:34 PM
Eli is a franchise QB, but he is like a blue-light special bargain-basement franchise QB. He is prone to bonehead moves on a consistent basis. Its nice to have stability at QB, but I would doubt Eli could get them another championship.

He can't? With the defense he has, he definitely can. I think of it this way, just as Scott's moniker is if you don't have a franchise Qb, you draft one. If you have one, you sure as hell don't let him go, no matter the cost. That is this. Yes, it is costly, but if the Giants played hard ball and the unthinkable actually happened, Eli leaving New York, what would the fall-out be then? SO much worse than the money they had to pay.

CC.SD
08-05-2009, 01:35 PM
We're talking about a team that lowballed LT and let Michael Turner go. . .

It's not like we were going to keep Michael Turner. LT walks on water here. And honestly getting Ladainian to take less money probably counts as a good thing if you're grading capologists.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 01:39 PM
Some people just don't like Eli and have wanted him to fail for a long time. He's viewed as growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth, stuck up and aloof by many. Refusing to play for the Chargers didn't help his popularity. Personally I think he's a solid starting QB who still has upside. I think the Giants know what they're doing. They've been to the playoffs every year he's been the full time starter.


Welcome to a lot of the general NFL fan base, including a lot of our fan base who loved Carrie Collins. As soon we got Eli, every step of the way it's a battle between our anti eli group, and the rest of the fan base..

I have no clue where the hate comes from. He didn't want to play for the Chargers, but Elway didn't want to play for a team either. Sadly people just don't like him, and probably have no good reason for it.

ChezPower4
08-05-2009, 01:40 PM
That's the going cost for the best Bus Driver QB in the league though.

16 million a year is not going rate on a QB in the NFL.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 01:43 PM
16 million a year is not going rate on a QB in the NFL.
Correction. Apparently it is.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 01:43 PM
people are looking at this the entirely wrong way. Honestly, I dont care if Eli doesn't lead the league in passing yards, completion % or fewest INT's thrown. I don't. Would they be nice? of course. But Eli is the face of the franchise, has mastered the NY media, won a ring, was our captain, etc etc. Not paying him would mean:
-re-sign Carr, have him start.
-Start Bomar
-Start Woodson
- Draft someone
- Sign a mediocre FA QB to start and have them learn the system.

Everyone in Giants camp is happy about it. We got our guy. And you know what, if Eli's so mediocre, than how come teams haven't exploited him enough to keep him out of the playoffs?

Again, if someone says it was all the defense in the SB playoff run, I will just bring up the fact we had Geoffery Pope playing in that game and RW McQuarters made 2 game sealing INT's. Yea, pure dominance with those two...

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 01:45 PM
16 million a year is not going rate on a QB in the NFL.

obviously it is.

again, this contract won't seem so massive in a few years.

and who knows? maybe we're paying him for his accomplishments and his ring. And you know what? I'll gladly exchange this huge contract for that ring we got and a chance that he can lead us there again.

the only downside is that it now affects my Madden strategy in fantasy drafts...

no bare feet
08-05-2009, 01:46 PM
No faith in Andre Woodson?

Shane P. Hallam
08-05-2009, 01:47 PM
Andre Woodson is the 4th QB. Why would they have faith in him? haha.

Shane P. Hallam
08-05-2009, 01:47 PM
the only downside is that it now affects my Madden strategy in fantasy drafts...

Lmao, best line ever.

no bare feet
08-05-2009, 01:48 PM
Andre Woodson is the 4th QB. Why would they have faith in him? haha.

Well he is Andre 'recite the alphabet before I release the ball' Woodson!

ChezPower4
08-05-2009, 01:50 PM
Correction. Apparently it is.

Matt Stafford got screwed ;)

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 01:53 PM
if Eli's so mediocre, than how come teams haven't exploited him enough to keep him out of the playoffs?


Completely fallacious logic on your part, but then again, i realized who was posting.

The fact that the Giants have been in the Playoffs has more to do with the team around him than him being the quarterback, and there's no ifs ands or buts about that.

All the Giants fans are here trying to justify this contract, but when it's time to pay the piper, and Eli is collecting his million dollar paychecks two years from now, you all will be crying as he throws his 1.1 interceptions per game.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 01:55 PM
Completely fallacious logic on your part, but then again, i realized who was posting.

The fact that the Giants have been in the Playoffs has more to do with the team around him than him being the quarterback, and there's no ifs ands or buts about that.

All the Giants fans are here trying to justify this contract, but when it's time to pay the piper, and Eli is collecting his million dollar paychecks two years from now, you all will be crying as he throws his 1.1 interceptions per game.

No this isn't true at all. I bet most of the Giants fans here will all be happy he's still our QB.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Agreed. We keep our QB under contract for the next 7 years, Eli gets paid, and it isn't big enough to severely effect our cap situation. I'm very happy with this deal.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 02:01 PM
We know we can win a Super Bowl with Eli as QB while most teams in the NFL are still looking for that player. We found ours so of course we're going to pay him the rate that QB's get. In 2 years when he is the 4th or 5th highest paid QB you guys won't be complaining anymore and Giants fans will still be happy.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Completely fallacious logic on your part, but then again, i realized who was posting.

The fact that the Giants have been in the Playoffs has more to do with the team around him than him being the quarterback, and there's no ifs ands or buts about that.

All the Giants fans are here trying to justify this contract, but when it's time to pay the piper, and Eli is collecting his million dollar paychecks two years from now, you all will be crying as he throws his 1.1 interceptions per game.

I'll cry probably as much as you did when you saw him celebrating 2 years ago in Dallas stadium as Jerry shredded those tickets he left on his players' seats in the locker room...oh wait, no because I'm glad we locked up our super bowl winning QB for 7 years. You know, he guy who's never missed the playoffs as a full time starter.

like seriously, we know you're a blatent giants hater/cowboys homer. we get it, cool. and oh, I'm so hurt by the whole logic comment you opened with trying to rile me up. Nice try.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Matt Stafford got screwed ;)
Matt Stafford will be a bust.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 02:22 PM
Eli can be respected. He's certainly earned this contract. NYG fans have reason to be happy that they've locked him up. He's just a bus driver qb, that's all. You can win with those and he happens to be the best one out there imo.

The only concern is if this contract becomes a hinderance to future signings. Because Eli without a strong supporting cast does not get the job done as we all have seen.

The best way to resolve that though is by drafting well.... and the Giants have proven to be one of the best if not the best in the league at drafting well.

So I can see future success. The key is to keep drafting well and getting good production from your cheap labor.

Future big FA signings don't look great though. Unless the NFL goes uncapped and then all hell should break loose.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 02:23 PM
Matt Stafford will be a bust.

Yeah, but he's a RICH bust who gets hot girls. There's no losing here. Well, except for the Lions, they always lose.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 02:25 PM
Eli can be respected. He's certainly earned this contract. NYG fans have reason to be happy that they've locked him up. He's just a bus driver qb, that's all. You can win with those and he happens to be the best one out there imo.

The only concern is if this contract becomes a hinderance to future signings. Because Eli without a strong supporting cast does not get the job done as we all have seen.

The best way to resolve that though is by drafting well.... and the Giants have proven to be one of the best if not the best in the league at drafting well.

So I can see future success. The key is to keep drafting well and getting good production from your cheap labor.

Future big FA signings don't look great though. Unless the NFL goes uncapped and then all hell should break loose.

exactly. which is why I'm fine. I mean, yes, we need a #1 WR, but looking at our team, our OL and RB are locked up as are the bigger names on our D. I'm ok with it, as long as Reese drafts like he has in the past

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 02:30 PM
Yeah, but he's a RICH bust who gets hot girls. There's no losing here. Well, except for the Lions, they always lose.
HA Ha ha @trailer park trash equating to "hot girls". You're the best, Sniper! Always good for a laugh! :D

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 02:41 PM
I'll cry probably as much as you did when you saw him celebrating 2 years ago in Dallas stadium as Jerry shredded those tickets he left on his players' seats in the locker room...oh wait, no because I'm glad we locked up our super bowl winning QB for 7 years. You know, he guy who's never missed the playoffs as a full time starter.

like seriously, we know you're a blatent giants hater/cowboys homer. we get it, cool. and oh, I'm so hurt by the whole logic comment you opened with trying to rile me up. Nice try.

I love how Eli gets so much credit for just being on the team, when he does very little towards their success.

And the logic comment wasn't meant to rile you up. I was really pointing out that your arguments make no sense logically, as i'm sure you've realized by now.

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 02:42 PM
HA Ha ha @trailer park trash equating to "hot girls". You're the best, Sniper! Always good for a laugh! :D

If that's trailer park trash, then send me to that trailer home.

FlyingElvis
08-05-2009, 02:47 PM
Welcome to a lot of the general NFL fan base, including a lot of our fan base who loved Carrie Collins. As soon we got Eli, every step of the way it's a battle between our anti eli group, and the rest of the fan base..

I have no clue where the hate comes from. He didn't want to play for the Chargers, but Elway didn't want to play for a team either. Sadly people just don't like him, and probably have no good reason for it.
I hate (well, dislike & have little respect for) Eli b/c he refused to play for a team that drafted him. Is that not a good enough reason?

It doesn't help that I view him as "growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth, stuck up and aloof." So there's that, too. ;)

Some people just don't like Eli and have wanted him to fail for a long time. He's viewed as growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth, stuck up and aloof by many. Refusing to play for the Chargers didn't help his popularity. Personally I think he's a solid starting QB who still has upside. I think the Giants know what they're doing. They've been to the playoffs every year he's been the full time starter.

GB12
08-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.

Staubach12
08-05-2009, 03:47 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.

I agree there. Rogers has, right now, proven to be a better QB for the lower price.

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.

This right here.

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 03:56 PM
All these excuses i keep hearing about market value, do you all even know what you're saying?

You're basically telling me, that if Eli Manning was a Free Agent, there would be another team out there willing to give him 100/35? No way in hell. The guy averages 16 interceptions a season. That's garbage. Oh, but he's clutch, right? :rolleyes:

Shane P. Hallam
08-05-2009, 03:59 PM
All these excuses i keep hearing about market value, do you all even know what you're saying?

You're basically telling me, that if Eli Manning was a Free Agent, there would be another team out there willing to give him 100/35? No way in hell. The guy averages 16 interceptions a season. That's garbage. Oh, but he's clutch, right? :rolleyes:

There would. The 49ers, the Bucs, the teams without QBs would die for an Eli. Imagine the 49ers offense with a QB of even Eli's caliber. Gore, Crabtree, Morgan. Someone would pay him this amount in free agency easily.

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 04:02 PM
Eli as a Super Bowl winning Qb would certainly get $100 million on the open market. You're crazy if you don't think so.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 04:27 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.

Wise choice.

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 04:28 PM
There would. The 49ers, the Bucs, the teams without QBs would die for an Eli. Imagine the 49ers offense with a QB of even Eli's caliber. Gore, Crabtree, Morgan. Someone would pay him this amount in free agency easily.

I strongly disagree. The fact that his team succeeded in New York does not equal him succeeding elsewhere. Teams know that he isn't an extremely good quarterback (as his contract implies he is), so i very much doubt that any other team would be willing to give him that much. That New York team made Eli, not the other way around.

Eli as a Super Bowl winning Qb would certainly get $100 million on the open market. You're crazy if you don't think so.
Are you seriously trying to justify that, only by saying that he's a Super Bowl winning QB? Really?

Sniper
08-05-2009, 04:32 PM
Are you seriously trying to justify that, only by saying that he's a Super Bowl winning QB? Really?

Hell yeah. Everyone knows it's always the QB that leads the squad to SB wins.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/07/medium_trent-dilfer-cleveland-browns-02.jpg

MetSox17
08-05-2009, 04:36 PM
Hell yeah. Everyone knows it's always the QB that leads the squad to SB wins.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/07/medium_trent-dilfer-cleveland-browns-02.jpg

I didn't wanna go there, which is why i said what i did. But you took the words (or picture?) right out of my mouth.

D-Unit
08-05-2009, 04:43 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.
Hahaha. Now THAT's perspective.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 04:45 PM
Am I missing something where Rodgers has been appointed the next great QB. He's started one season. A very good one but only one year. He was also given that contract before being a starter. Had he been getting paid this year or next year it would probably be higher.

yo123
08-05-2009, 04:46 PM
Eli Manning - 6 years, $97 million, $35 million guaranteed

Aaron Rodgers - 6 years, $65 million, $20 million guaranteed

I'll take the extra $32 million and better QB.



And when Rodgers is due for another contract he's going to sign for a lot more than 97 million.

This is how the market works. Right now it looks like a terrible contract because it is, but it had to be done.

TitleTown088
08-05-2009, 04:53 PM
Am I missing something where Rodgers has been appointed the next great QB. He's started one season. A very good one but only one year. He was also given that contract before being a starter. Had he been getting paid this year or next year it would probably be higher.
No he wasn't. Rodgers got that contract in Oct 31st during the season.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/33650499.html

Giantsfan1080
08-05-2009, 04:54 PM
I love everyone that uses Dilfer as a comparison. It's not even close don't insult everyone's intelligence. Should I say Super Bowl MVP? Anyway like I said if you don't think that half the teams in the NFL would pony up that type of contract for him then I gave this board a lot more credit than I should have.

Jughead10
08-05-2009, 04:57 PM
No he wasn't. Rodgers got that contract in Oct 31st during the season.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/33650499.html

Forgive me. He got it 6 or 7 games into his starting career. Eli got his after 4 playoff appearances and a Super Bowl MVP. The point remains the same. It's all about when you sign the contract. If Rodgers had been starting since his second year and signed last year, he would have gotten something similar.

Sniper
08-05-2009, 05:06 PM
Am I missing something where Rodgers has been appointed the next great QB. He's started one season. A very good one but only one year. He was also given that contract before being a starter. Had he been getting paid this year or next year it would probably be higher.

Well, Rodgers' first year statistically blows any Manning season out of the water.

GB12
08-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Well, Rodgers' first year statistically blows any Manning season out of the water.

But Eli is clearly better since he has a ring.

And yes, I'm aware that Rodgers signed that halfway through the year, butit still shows that the going rate for a slighty above average QB is not $97 million.

Nalej
08-05-2009, 05:19 PM
I think he got overpaid but can also see why the Giants did it though.
Getting a sure-fire starter at QB is no gimme in the NFL especially one that knows your system
While I don't think he deserves that kind of money- the Giants did the right thing

GB12
08-05-2009, 05:25 PM
And when Rodgers is due for another contract he's going to sign for a lot more than 97 million.

This is how the market works. Right now it looks like a terrible contract because it is, but it had to be done.

Right, but that's because that will be six years from now. Not sure why you're bringing up what will happen in 2015.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2009, 05:28 PM
I hate (well, dislike & have little respect for) Eli b/c he refused to play for a team that drafted him. Is that not a good enough reason?

It doesn't help that I view him as "growing up with a silver spoon in his mouth, stuck up and aloof." So there's that, too. ;)

Makes sense, but he was the first to do that. The beloved Elway did the same thing. Plus someone within the chargers franchise itself told him not to go. That led to the whole thing. I still remember reading all back in 04.

Silver spoon in his mouth? It's not like he dodged anything. He went to a school where his father was a legend, so that alone tells me he is the balls to handle that pressure. Since he came to our team, he has been perfect off the field in handling himself.

He hasn't called out anyone for no reason, hasn't done wheelies in a parking lot, or rode a motorcycle without a helmet, hasn't verbally said stupid things and the embarressed the team during a game, or spoke trash to opposing fans, or given our fan base the middle finger. All in all, he has sucked it up and dealt with it. That alone is enough to get respect. When our fan base was all over him, he didn't whine about it to the media. Say what you want, the guy is very mentally tough.

yo123
08-05-2009, 05:33 PM
Right, but that's because that will be six years from now. Not sure why you're bringing up what will happen in 2015.



Because this is what happens when it's time to resign a franchise QB. He gets overpaid.

Comparing a player who signed 2 months after starting his 1st game and a Super Bowl MVP makes no sense.

This is nothing new. Terrell Suggs just became the highest paid LB in the league. Terrell Suggs. Is he the best LB in the league? Of course not. It's the market.

scottyboy
08-05-2009, 06:08 PM
I'd just like to point out, most of the people bashing Eli and the deal in this thread are known Eli/Giants haters. It made sense to give him the deal.

And we get it, Dilfer wasn't good because he won the Super Bowl, but he's one of the exceptions to the rule. Much as Brady was the exception to the rule of winning without a #1 WR.

But you know what, the Eli haters are going to hate regardless. the Giants and the fans are content with locking up our QB for the next 6 years or so and have kept stability at a position which so many teams desperately search for, and often fail many times.

bigbluedefense
08-05-2009, 07:03 PM
You either love Eli or you hate him. He's one of the more polarizing players in the league.

I don't defend him the same way i used to because its pointless. People have their formed opinions on him already, and will never change them.


I just want the season to start. Enough of the trivial arguments. Let's watch some damn football and let the games do the talking.

Brothgar
08-05-2009, 07:19 PM
All these excuses i keep hearing about market value, do you all even know what you're saying?

You're basically telling me, that if Eli Manning was a Free Agent, there would be another team out there willing to give him 100/35? No way in hell. The guy averages 16 interceptions a season. That's garbage. Oh, but he's clutch, right? :rolleyes:

Well IIRC 2010 is an uncapped year so I could see all of the following teams going after Manning

Tennessee Titans (they obviously don't like Vince Young anymore)
San Francisco 49ers (They have no one)
Minnesota Vikings (All they need is a bus driiver Eli could do that)
NY Giants (obviously)
Carolina Panthers (Jale Delhome LOLZ)
Seattle Seahawks (Hasselbeck is old and injury prone)
St. Louis Rams (Copy and paste with Bulger)
Washington Redskins (Who is the skinz QB again? Exactly)

sweetness34
08-05-2009, 07:48 PM
Eli is a franchise QB on a good team. Eli is not a franchise QB on a bad team. He does not make players around him better, he benefits from the talent around him.

IMO Eli isn't a franchise QB because he cannot consistently put a team on his back and carry them. Yea I know about his winning percentage, but it's the same argument used for Kyle Orton. Just because a QB wins games doesn't make him great. You have to look at the talent around them and Eli has benefited from having a very good defense, a very good running game, and targets to throw to.

Eli certainly has talent and I would consider him as a pretty damn good QB, not a great one.

There is no way in hell though I would consider Eli's contract as a good deal. Give me Rodgers and his contract any day of the week. But from the Giants perspective, he's a winning QB that has gotten them a Super Bowl and they wanted to keep him long term. Just one man's opinion though.

As long as Eli has talent around him he will be fine, but if he is forced to put the team on his back I think we'll see a different player, and one that is not worth $100 million.

CC.SD
08-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Stafford won't bust he will eventually lead the Lions back to the playoffs, with a little love from Calvin obviously.

ATLDirtyBirds
08-05-2009, 09:48 PM
I just wonder what Matt Ryan is going to get after not losing a game for the next 6 seasons.

49ersfan_87
08-05-2009, 10:06 PM
Here's how i see it.

Is manning an elite QB? No. He'll never be a 30 TD a year kind of guy. If i had to choose a QB to start my team there are a few other QB's i'd choose over him.

But he works in the Giants system. The team as a whole has chemistry, and why risk it by losing Manning. It helped them win a superbowl and become the #1 seed the next year. Don't mess with whats working. And if it costs $35 mil guaranteed, so be it. They can obviously afford it.

sweetness34
08-05-2009, 10:33 PM
Here's how i see it.

Is manning an elite QB? No. He'll never be a 30 TD a year kind of guy. If i had to choose a QB to start my team there are a few other QB's i'd choose over him.

Which is why there's no reason you can justify giving him that much money. I could see giving him a large contract, but the largest in the history of the NFL? I realize that a contract will probably eclipse Eli's in the near future but $15 million a season for a guy who isn't a top 5 QB?

We're going to find out a lot about Eli with him not having a go to target. He's got some nice weapons but nothing like what Plaxico was able to give him. He says there won't be any more pressure than there has been, I disagree. You are being paid more than Brady and Manning, you bet your ass there's going to be pressure.

I guess on the bright side it's $35 million guaranteed which isn't all that much when you compare it to other players in the league but barring a major injury, he's going to play all 6 of those years and receive all the money he was offered. I personally think the Giants and Eli could have settled for less money in order to try and see what they could get in F/A, trades, etc as far as receivers go because I think that would benefit Eli more so than giving him big money and settling for the targets they currently have.

I agree with BBD though, we'll just have to wait and see what happens this year.

Xenos
08-06-2009, 12:53 AM
We're talking about a team that lowballed LT and let Michael Turner go. . .
How did we lowball LT? We made him the richest RB at the time in 2004. We just had to get him to restructure this past offseason due to his injuries and the upcoming contracts of Rivers, Merriman, McNeill, and VJ to name a few.

As for letting go of Michael Turner, there's no way you can afford two running backs in the salary cap era especially with contracts like Rivers, Merriman, McNeill, and VJ coming up. It's just thinking ahead as much as possible.

San Diego is never cheap with its salary cap (as evidenced by the fact that they always use it up year in and year out). We just need a new stadium to better compete with the bigger markets like NE, Dallas, and Washington.

Smooth Criminal
08-06-2009, 01:11 AM
I'm not a huge Eli fan, I think he's an above average QB and the Giants overpaid. At the same time, they've found a guy they can win with, so locking him up is a good move. It just seems like he shouldn't have gotten quite the money he did.

trkaline
08-06-2009, 03:42 AM
This thread is hilarious. I've never seen so many people saying the same thing "the next guys gonna make more because that's what happens..." We know...and as for Eli I don't like the guy, but he is a major gear in the Giants Machine and if he was to leave in FA you can't just plug in Johhny Average QB and expect the machine to keep running smoothly. If they were to lose him, that either leaves finding a proven comodity and overpaying or an unproven and overpaying so why not overpay the guy whose there now and has proven that while he might not always win you the game he'll do his best not to lose it?

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 06:11 AM
Eli has a good team NOW. He didn't always have a good team. We were a terrible team for his first 3 years in the league. We still made the playoffs despite an atrocious defense, no offensive line, and aging/often injured targets and terrible coaching. Eli Manning was a huge reason why we were able to win during those times. But he gets no credit for that.

Burress didn't become an elite WR until he came to the Giants. Another myth is how Eli doesn't make his teammates better. Really? What has Shockey done since he left NY? Watch what Toomer does this year. What has Hilliard done since he left? Tim Carter?

The past 2 years he's had great teams. He won the SB one year, and went 12-4 last year. We disappointed in the playoffs sure, but the results of the season were still impressive.

But lets be real guys. Even if Eli Manning has a great year this year, people will say he only did so bc of a great defense and run game. And if he doesnt have a great year, its gonna be "zomg i told you so"

No matter what he does, he'll never win over the blogging fan.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 07:22 AM
I just wonder what Matt Ryan is going to get after not losing a game for the next 6 seasons.

A lot more if he continues to do well.

49ersfan_87
08-06-2009, 08:00 AM
Which is why there's no reason you can justify giving him that much money. I could see giving him a large contract, but the largest in the history of the NFL? I realize that a contract will probably eclipse Eli's in the near future but $15 million a season for a guy who isn't a top 5 QB?


He plays the most important position in the NFL, is a superbowl MVP and has proven to work in the Giants system that has led to wins and a championship. That's invaluable IMO.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 09:43 AM
Eli has a good team NOW. He didn't always have a good team. We were a terrible team for his first 3 years in the league. We still made the playoffs despite an atrocious defense, no offensive line, and aging/often injured targets and terrible coaching. Eli Manning was a huge reason why we were able to win during those times. But he gets no credit for that.

He gets no credit for what those three years? His +10 fumbles a season? or his +18 interception average? Or his MVP-esque 55% completion percentage? Oh, but he's teh clutchzorz, right?

Save that junk.

Burress didn't become an elite WR until he came to the Giants. Another myth is how Eli doesn't make his teammates better. Really? What has Shockey done since he left NY? Watch what Toomer does this year. What has Hilliard done since he left? Tim Carter?

Now this is a crock of ****, if i've ever heard one. You do realize that Plaxico has his best year yardage wise as a Steeler, right? That, he only broke the 1k yard mark in New York twice, something he had already done previously in Pittsburgh. His touchdowns went up in New York, yes, but that's because he was hands down the number one target. He always played second fiddle to Hines Ward in Pittsburgh. I don't wanna hear any of this "Plaxico was nothing without Eli". On the other hand, look at what the Giants and Eli did without Plaxico. How convenient that no one remembers last year when they gagged in the playoffs against the Eagles after being the 1 seed in the NFC. Yeah, Eli had his hand in that loss, with his typical bus-driver stat line of 2 int's, 0 td's and 40.7 Qb rating. I still remember him looking like a deer in the headlights when the Eagles kept popping him in the mouth.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 10:09 AM
He gets no credit for what those three years? His +10 fumbles a season? or his +18 interception average? Or his MVP-esque 55% completion percentage? Oh, but he's teh clutchzorz, right?

Save that junk.


Where is that OC by way? Is he still on the team?

Geo
08-06-2009, 11:14 AM
Now this is a crock of ****, if i've ever heard one. You do realize that Plaxico has his best year yardage wise as a Steeler, right? That, he only broke the 1k yard mark in New York twice, something he had already done previously in Pittsburgh. His touchdowns went up in New York, yes, but that's because he was hands down the number one target. He always played second fiddle to Hines Ward in Pittsburgh. I don't wanna hear any of this "Plaxico was nothing without Eli". On the other hand, look at what the Giants and Eli did without Plaxico.
I'm astonished someone could overlook this. Revisionist history is a hell of thing, huh? Apparently the offensive line from two years ago was trash and Eli had no weapons. Wow.

I like the Giants and some of their fans, but I'm never suprised by what they'll say.

And Eli is not a polarizing figure. Giants fans stick up for him and the vast majority of everyone else doesn't care/think/regard him. That's not polarizing.

ncst8fan83
08-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Where is that OC by way? Is he still on the team?

The OC made him fumble and throw interceptions? Dear God, do the head coaches know about this??? :eek:

sweetness34
08-06-2009, 11:18 AM
He plays the most important position in the NFL, is a superbowl MVP and has proven to work in the Giants system that has led to wins and a championship. That's invaluable IMO.

The only justification you can give for the contract is that he's a winner and he's won a Super Bowl. Now the latter is a pretty bid deal but when you look at the stats, it does not indicate a player that deserves a 6 year $97 million contract. 23 TD's and 16 INT's over the past 4 years, that is not a franchise QB.

Last season he passed 479 times for 21 TD's and 10 INT's. The less attempts he has, the better off he does. His stats last year were the best of his career in terms of efficiency, a year where he could rely on an elite defense to help him out.

In Eli's regular season two years ago he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's (those were Rex's numbers the year we went to the Super Bowl, and had he beat the Colts you never would have heard Bear fans claiming he was a franchise QB). Eli had a mediocre season that year, but all was forgiven when his team won the Super Bowl. In fact in the NFL Championship Game he didn't even throw for a Touchdown.

Eli was a contributor on the team that won the Super Bowl, but he was not the main reason. As long as Eli has talent on both sides of the ball he'll be fine because he's proven he can win by limiting his mistakes. But if he is forced to carry his team he will fail, and that contract is going to look very bad. That is why I still say he should have taken less money so the Giants could have more money to go elsewhere and get talent.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:19 AM
The OC made him fumble and throw interceptions? Dear God, do the head coaches know about this??? :eek:

No, that's on him, but the system changed once he got fired.. Plus aren't qbs allowed to develop or do they all have to start out good off the bat? Do you see improvement each year with the QB?

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm astonished someone could overlook this. Revisionist history is a hell of thing, huh? Apparently the offensive line from two years ago was trash and Eli had no weapons. Wow.

I like the Giants and some of their fans, but I'm never suprised by what they'll say.

And Eli is not a polarizing figure. Giants fans stick up for him and the vast majority of everyone else doesn't care/think/regard him. That's not polarizing.

Who cares if he is polarizing? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Geo
08-06-2009, 11:23 AM
this is my take:

in 2-4 years, this will seem like a steal for a franchise QB. This money is huge now, but realistically, in the open market, he would've gotten so much more.
I'm trying to think of a word for this other than stupid.

The only way this deal can look like a steal is if QBs sign for 6/7 years and in the $175 million range a few years from now. That's not going to happen.

And who on Earth, on the open market, would blow out a 6-year/$97 million extension in signing Eli?

Geo
08-06-2009, 11:24 AM
Who cares if he is polarizing? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

You either love Eli or you hate him. He's one of the more polarizing players in the league.

I don't defend him the same way i used to because its pointless. People have their formed opinions on him already, and will never change them.
Keep your head in the sand, but that doesn't work as well in autumn and winter as it does in the summer, S+M.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:29 AM
Keep your head in the sand, but that doesn't work as well in autumn and winter as it does in the summer, S+M.

I don't think he is polarizing to the extent BBD thinks, but I do think you see a difference in opinion from the analysts like them or not and the general NFL fan base. I found that interesting in a general sense.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 11:29 AM
I'm trying to think of a word for this other than stupid.
Stupid sounds about right.

The only way this deal can look like a steal is if QBs sign for 6/7 years and in the $175 million range a few years from now. That's not going to happen.

And who on Earth, on the open market, would blow out a 6-year/$97 million extension in signing Eli?

I brought up this exact point two pages ago, and apparently, all the Giants fans feel that every other team out there would spend that amount of money on Eli.

Jughead10
08-06-2009, 11:31 AM
In Eli's regular season two years ago he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's (those were Rex's numbers the year we went to the Super Bowl, and had he beat the Colts you never would have heard Bear fans claiming he was a franchise QB). Eli had a mediocre season that year, but all was forgiven when his team won the Super Bowl. In fact in the NFL Championship Game he didn't even throw for a Touchdown.

It was also -2 degrees in that NFC Championship game and he played great despite not throwing a TD. He had a great 4 games in the playoffs that year. Stepped it up from his regular season that year. He was a big part of that playoff run. Probably more so than when his brother won a Super Bowl.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:32 AM
Stupid sounds about right.



I brought up this exact point two pages ago, and apparently, all the Giants fans feel that every other team out there would spend that amount of money on Eli.

All giants fans? Let's not generalize now..

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 11:33 AM
He was a big part of that playoff run. Probably more so than when his brother won a Super Bowl.

Please, just stop. This is getting downright ridiculous.

All giants fans? Let's not generalize now..

I apologize. A good number of Giants fans. Better? :)

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Please, just stop. This is getting downright ridiculous.



I apologize. A good number of Giants fans. Better? :)

Yeah, because some of the giants fans on this site are way into the homer category. I am not getting lumped into that assinine category. I have no issue in calling out players on my favorite team or fans.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah, because some of the giants fans on this site are way into the homer category. I am not getting lumped into that assinine category. I have no issue in calling out players on my favorite team or fans.

You're right, i've never had an issue with your opinions because they always seem objective and straight forward. Sad to say, that a lot of your Giants brethren are easily lumped into that assinine category.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 11:41 AM
You're right, i've never had an issue with your opinions because they always seem objective and straight forward. Sad to say, that a lot of your Giants brethren are easily

But on the flip side, I think people from day 1 hated Eli for what he did, and carried that hate across the board. Two perfect examples are, John Elway and Jim kelly. Hall of famers now, but still, they rejected their teams they were drafted to, yet some reason people now hated him.

This applies to some of our fan base who loved Carrie Collins. As soon as we drafted Eli, they hated him.

From an unbiased point of view, it really is interesting to see general NFL fans, including some in our own fan base that just hate him.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 11:44 AM
But on the flip side, I think people from day 1 hated Eli for what he did, and carried that hate across the board. Two perfect examples are, John Elway and Jim kelly. Hall of famers now, but still, they rejected their teams they were drafted to, yet some reason people now hated him.

This applies to some of our fan base who loved Carrie Collins. As soon as we drafted Eli, they hated him.

From an unbiased point of view, it really is interesting to see general NFL fans, including some in our own fan base that just hate him.

To be honest, i've never given a crap about the fact that he refused to go to San Diego. I'm passionate about my opinion of him because certain people make him out to be the lord and savior.

And this passionate about everything i discuss, so this "Giants Hater" BS is annoying. That's the only thing people can accuse me of. Two seasons ago i'd get the same crap for talking about Roethlisberger and James Harrison. And that cheap **** Hines Ward.

ncst8fan83
08-06-2009, 11:50 AM
No, that's on him, but the system changed once he got fired.. Plus aren't qbs allowed to develop or do they all have to start out good off the bat? Do you see improvement each year with the QB?

Eli's stats were posted, you responded with a question about the OC still being there. It had nothing to do with improvement from one year to the next and it sure didn't have a damn thing to do with any Offensive Coordinator. So, what exactly was your point other than evading the absurdity of Eli's mediocrity?

Just for fun though, after Eli lost Plaxico, his statline was:
95/171 55.6% 838yards 3td 5int 69.6 QBR
2 Wins, 4 Losses

Stellar numbers from such a clutch player!

Sniper
08-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Just for fun though, after Eli lost Plaxico, his statline was:
95/171 55.6% 838yards 3td 5int 69.6 QBR
2 Wins, 4 Losses

Stellar numbers from such a clutch player!

You can't talk about him like that. HE HAZ A RINGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Jughead10
08-06-2009, 11:58 AM
Please, just stop. This is getting downright ridiculous.

Look it up. If I remember correctly, Peyton was pretty bad that entire postseason. It was a complete roll reversal. Bob Sanders came back and that swiss cheese defense became outstanding and Peyton struggled during the playoffs. Obviously I'd take Peyton any day of the week and twice on Sundays over Eli, but Eli outplayed his brother in their respective Super Bowl runs.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 12:00 PM
Eli's stats were posted, you responded with a question about the OC still being there. It had nothing to do with improvement from one year to the next and it sure didn't have a damn thing to do with any Offensive Coordinator. So, what exactly was your point other than evading the absurdity of Eli's mediocrity?

Just for fun though, after Eli lost Plaxico, his statline was:
95/171 55.6% 838yards 3td 5int 69.6 QBR
2 Wins, 4 Losses

Stellar numbers from such a clutch player!

Of course the improvement had to do with the OC and system. Do you even watch ALL the giants games?


Just for fun, Do you understand football? Or are you a stat guy, you know the kind that throw em all over the place? If you are, just say so, and we can end this conversation right here.

I am sure Met can handle himself, I think he is a cool guy. I just happen to disagree with him on some issues.

Jughead10
08-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Eli's stats were posted, you responded with a question about the OC still being there. It had nothing to do with improvement from one year to the next and it sure didn't have a damn thing to do with any Offensive Coordinator. So, what exactly was your point other than evading the absurdity of Eli's mediocrity?

Just for fun though, after Eli lost Plaxico, his statline was:
95/171 55.6% 838yards 3td 5int 69.6 QBR
2 Wins, 4 Losses

Stellar numbers from such a clutch player!

I'm curious to how different that is compared to his last 6 games of the year normally. Eli struggles late in the year in bad weather. Mostly wind. Thats always been my main problem with him. Which was why being on the road the entire Super Bowl run may have been a blessing in disguise. He's always played great in domes. When I look at the schedule and see warm road destinations late in the season, I'm always happy.

Giantsfan1080
08-06-2009, 12:05 PM
JBond also thinks he'd get that type of deal on the open market so it's not just us Giants fans. As for Shocking calling us homers because we think he'd get that on the open market, it has nothing to do with. I would call out any player on the team if they are doing poorly and so on.

Malaka
08-06-2009, 12:09 PM
Eli Manning... a super bowl winner, and oft criticized QB. When people look at his stat line they see an at best average QB, but what they don't see is what Eli does to this team.


Eli has been the picture of durability, the definition of a good teammate, and also one of the most clutch QBs in the league in crunch time.

- Eli has never missed a single game in his NFL career, not once, he has fought through injuries and played on (see 08' Packers-Giants). He gives the Giants a QB they can rely for every game of the season, without too much worry on whose warming the bench for him.

- Manning has never once whined, complained, gotten in trouble, or anything that would cause a distraction on the football field. When all of NYC wanted his head he stayed calm and brought them a Super Bowl. When Tiki Barber was running his mouth he played it cool, and was criticized for doing so, but come next year he made Tiki eat his words. He may not be a fiery leader but he does lead by example, and now the Giants may have the best organization character-wise, getting rid of headaches no matter how great an asset they were like Plax, Shockey, Tiki, etc.

- Eli is one of the best crunch time QBs in all of football, and through 5 years of his career has more career 4th quarter comebacks than beloved HoFer John Elway. Eli has 12 to John Elways 9 (The Daily News link only shows 9, but thats from 08', Eli had three comebacks in 09', the Bengals, Steelers, and Panthers). Eli has shown time and time again he is clutch QB, and although his first few stints in the playoffs were nothing special his stat line, in those games other than Carolina (his first) and Philly (the last) have been very good. When his playoff performance mattered most he got the job done throwing only INT the whole playoffs, and that was not even his fault, as Steve Smith bobbled it and it was then picked up by Ellis Hobbs. This is what separates players like Tony Romo.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/12/03/2007-12-03_eli_manning_leads_comeback_in_4th_quarte-3.html

http://johnelwayfans.com/comebacks.htm

- Eli Manning is a consistent threat to put up 20 TDs and 3000 yards, his weakness is INTs, and last year they dropped tremendously. Eli is not a top 5 QB but he is definitely is top 10, and if he can keep his INT numbers done he can be an excellent QB. Eli maybe a bus driver QB, but he is hands down the best bus driver there is and thats all the Giants need to win a Super Bowl.

Eli may never put up the stats his brother Peyton does, but it won't matter, I'll take rings over stats any day. Eli may never be an All-Pro caliber QB, but he gives the Giants just enough to win and I'll gladly take that over a revolving door at QB. At the end of the day Eli wins games, while putting up decent stats, he is our franchise QB without him we aren't the New York Giants, he deserves the money he got, you all complain about it, but Jerry Reese is a genius and in him I trust, I may sound like a broken record but though seemingly exorbitant now, this deal will be peanuts in a few years, this is the market my friends get over it.

http://www.nflgoddess.com/images/2008_nyg_eli_manning.jpg

49ersfan_87
08-06-2009, 12:29 PM
The only justification you can give for the contract is that he's a winner and he's won a Super Bowl. Now the latter is a pretty bid deal but when you look at the stats, it does not indicate a player that deserves a 6 year $97 million contract. 23 TD's and 16 INT's over the past 4 years, that is not a franchise QB.

Last season he passed 479 times for 21 TD's and 10 INT's. The less attempts he has, the better off he does. His stats last year were the best of his career in terms of efficiency, a year where he could rely on an elite defense to help him out.

In Eli's regular season two years ago he had 23 TD's and 20 INT's (those were Rex's numbers the year we went to the Super Bowl, and had he beat the Colts you never would have heard Bear fans claiming he was a franchise QB). Eli had a mediocre season that year, but all was forgiven when his team won the Super Bowl. In fact in the NFL Championship Game he didn't even throw for a Touchdown.

Eli was a contributor on the team that won the Super Bowl, but he was not the main reason. As long as Eli has talent on both sides of the ball he'll be fine because he's proven he can win by limiting his mistakes. But if he is forced to carry his team he will fail, and that contract is going to look very bad. That is why I still say he should have taken less money so the Giants could have more money to go elsewhere and get talent.

Eh, i really don't know how else i can say what i have to say. Philosophical difference here- agree to disagree.

FlyingElvis
08-06-2009, 12:42 PM
Makes sense, but he was the first to do that. The beloved Elway did the same thing. Plus someone within the chargers franchise itself told him not to go. That led to the whole thing. I still remember reading all back in 04.

Silver spoon in his mouth? It's not like he dodged anything. He went to a school where his father was a legend, so that alone tells me he is the balls to handle that pressure. Since he came to our team, he has been perfect off the field in handling himself.

The second part was a joke. I don't pretend to know the guy based on pressers. Personally, I'd prefer a fired up type of QB to Eli's laid back personality, but that's not really relevant.

As far as Elway & Kelley go, I feel the same about them. Kelley I hate simply b/c he's a Bill and those were the days when NE was the divisional whipping boy, so the refusal to go somewhere is akin to throwing a twig on a bonfire.

Elway loses some respect for his refusal to go to a team just like Eli, though I will admit I have a much less visceral reaction to Elway b/c my emotional response to such acts was not quite as strong when I was 8. lol

. . . But lets be real guys. Even if Eli Manning has a great year this year, people will say he only did so bc of a great defense and run game. And if he doesnt have a great year, its gonna be "zomg i told you so"

No matter what he does, he'll never win over the blogging fan.
Not true, but one great year followed by more mediocre years still won't make this particular blogging fan believe he is deserving of this contract.

FlyingElvis
08-06-2009, 12:45 PM
JBond also thinks he'd get that type of deal on the open market so it's not just us Giants fans. As for Shocking calling us homers because we think he'd get that on the open market, it has nothing to do with. I would call out any player on the team if they are doing poorly and so on.

As do I. It's not easy to find a reliable QB in this league. Eli would have been the subject of a bidding war and the end result would have been some team overpaying for his services. For that reason I completely agree w/trkaline's post below - the Giants just took care of the deal before that bid war could take place.

This thread is hilarious. I've never seen so many people saying the same thing "the next guys gonna make more because that's what happens..." We know...and as for Eli I don't like the guy, but he is a major gear in the Giants Machine and if he was to leave in FA you can't just plug in Johhny Average QB and expect the machine to keep running smoothly. If they were to lose him, that either leaves finding a proven comodity and overpaying or an unproven and overpaying so why not overpay the guy whose there now and has proven that while he might not always win you the game he'll do his best not to lose it?

+rep for being the first mention I've seen of the cost to replace Eli.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2009, 12:46 PM
The second part was a joke. I don't pretend to know the guy based on pressers. Personally, I'd prefer a fired up type of QB to Eli's laid back personality, but that's not really relevant.

As far as Elway & Kelley go, I feel the same about them. Kelley I hate simply b/c he's a Bill and those were the days when NE was the divisional whipping boy, so the refusal to go somewhere is akin to throwing a twig on a bonfire.

Elway loses some respect for his refusal to go to a team just like Eli, though I will admit I have a much less visceral reaction to Elway b/c my emotional response to such acts was not quite as strong when I was 8. lol


Not true, but one great year followed by more mediocre years still won't make this particular blogging fan believe he is deserving of this contract.

Fair enough.. Though Kelly cried when the Bills drafted him, and refused to play, went to another league, and then when the league folded he came back to the Bills. Can you imagine if a QB did that now?

FlyingElvis
08-06-2009, 12:51 PM
Fair enough.. Though Kelly cried when the Bills drafted him, and refused to play, went to another league, and then when the league folded he came back to the Bills. Can you imagine if a QB did that now?

Media Crucifiction. All while a drooling, sadistic general public looked on with glee.

**** Jim Kelly. lol

Sniper
08-06-2009, 12:53 PM
- Eli Manning is a consistent threat to put up 20 TDs and 3000 yards

That would be considered average.

Eli is not a top 5 QB but he is definitely is top 10

Really? In no order, here's who I'd definitely take ahead of Eli, assuming all are healthy.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Carson Palmer
Ben Roethlisberger
Phil Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Jay Cutler (and I ******* hate Jay Cutler)
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Matt Hasselbeck

Guys that you could argue either way...

Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
David Garrard

Jughead10
08-06-2009, 12:56 PM
Really? In no order, here's who I'd definitely take ahead of Eli, assuming all are healthy.

That's a big assumption in football. Part of Eli's value. I'm a huge believer that some guys are injury prone and other guys just don't get hurt. Kind of made of rubber. Both Eli and his brother fall into the second category.

Malaka
08-06-2009, 12:57 PM
That would be considered average.



Really? In no order, here's who I'd definitely take ahead of Eli, assuming all are healthy.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Drew Brees
Carson Palmer
Ben Roethlisberger
Phil Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Jay Cutler (and I ******* hate Jay Cutler)
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Kurt Warner
Matt Hasselbeck

Guys that you could argue either way...

Chad Pennington
Tony Romo
David Garrard

Thats you.... I'd take Eli over Hasselbeck, Romo, Garrard, McNabb, and Pennington.

One more thing, can someone tell me what separates Big Ben and Eli... other than 1 All-star Season?? Big Ben has sucked every other year... even last year he didn't play so hot.

Sniper
08-06-2009, 12:59 PM
Thats you.... I'd take Eli over Hasselbeck, Romo, Garrard, McNabb, and Pennington.

...which would still put him, at best, at 11th. You just defeated your own "Eli is definitely a top 10 QB" argument. I don't think I've ever seen anyone defeat their own argument. Nicely done.

You're also ridiculously biased for Manning.

Bigburt63
08-06-2009, 01:02 PM
Thats you.... I'd take Eli over Hasselbeck, Romo, Garrard, McNabb, and Pennington.

One more thing, can someone tell me what separates Big Ben and Eli... other than 1 All-star Season?? Big Ben has sucked every other year... even last year he didn't play so hot.

IMO, not as much as what people think. I think both are overrated personally. Definitely good, but not elite. Maybe that is just me, but I don't think quarterbacks that are asked primarily to just manage the game are elite overall QB's.

Malaka
08-06-2009, 01:06 PM
...which would still put him, at best, at 11th. You just defeated your own "Eli is definitely a top 10 QB" argument. I don't think I've ever seen anyone defeat their own argument. Nicely done.

You're also ridiculously biased for Manning.

How so am I ridiculously biased? for putting him ahead of Romo and McNabb, I am not a fan chokers... I have never said anything that hasn't already been said.. Without Eli the Giants would not function as well... he is average/to above average. Not once did I call him a HoFer or All-Pro or something of that magnitude of homerism.

FlyingElvis
08-06-2009, 01:08 PM
For the sake of argument - specifically on whether or not Eli would get this rich contract from other teams - let's say there are definitely 15 QBs better than Eli.

That still leaves 17 teams with QBs worse. Even if we assume 10 of those 17 teams think Eli would be no better/no worse so they have no interest, we are still left with 7 teams that want him. To me, that screams bid war with a team overpaying for Eli. The Giants just nipped it in the bud.

http://www.ppc-advice.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/nipit.jpg

Bigburt63
08-06-2009, 01:11 PM
^ Unless those teams have cap issues, or are trying to develop a young QB of their own.

no bare feet
08-06-2009, 01:14 PM
After participating as a wideout earlier in camp, K Lawrence Tynes spent much of Thursday throwing passes during defensive back drills. A position change isn't imminent, but Tynes appears to be a favorite of coaches for his willingness to help out.

Watch out Eli!

M.O.T.H.
08-06-2009, 01:16 PM
He's a glorified bus driver. He can turn it on every now and then and has a very good 4th quarter history but, I still wouldnt put him in the top 10. He's a pretty average QB who has the luxury of having an outstanding offensive line, running game, and defense. Even I thought by now, he'd be close to the upper tier of QBs but, he's not there. On the money front, is he overpaid? I would certainly say yes. But w/e, they got a ring with him and they do win with him consistently.

FlyingElvis
08-06-2009, 01:30 PM
^ Unless those teams have cap issues, or are trying to develop a young QB of their own.

Developmental QBs would be accounted for in the 10 teams no better/no worse. Even if you knock a few teams off the hypothetical 7 the point stands - it only takes 2 teams to drive the price up.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 02:02 PM
Forget Eli for a second. I don't get the man love for our offensive line.

Ive stated this before, and I'll state it again. I think our offensive line is one of the more overrated units in football. We have in my mind, the best run blocking line in all of football. I think fairly strongly on that.

But pass protection? Our oline is average in pass protection. To annoint it the best in football is ridiculous to me. The Eagles oline is the best in football. I'll take the Titans oline over it as well.

Our oline is similar to Pittsburgh's in a sense that its great in the run game, but can't pass block for more than 2.5 seconds. Our OTs cannot handle speed rushers.

If we go back to a 5 step drop offense, I think we're going to give up a lot more sacks this year because our oline can't pass protect for that long. Thats one of my biggest fears about this change to a more vertical passing game we'll impliment this year.

As for Eli, what else is there to say? The season starts in September.

sweetness34
08-06-2009, 02:05 PM
He can't? With the defense he has, he definitely can. I think of it this way, just as Scott's moniker is if you don't have a franchise Qb, you draft one. If you have one, you sure as hell don't let him go, no matter the cost. That is this. Yes, it is costly, but if the Giants played hard ball and the unthinkable actually happened, Eli leaving New York, what would the fall-out be then? SO much worse than the money they had to pay.

I missed this post when I was reading through the thread.

Your second sentence pretty much says it all. With the defense Eli has, he definitely has a shot at getting to another Super Bowl because it's one of the best in the game.

With a defense that good along with the OL and running game, there are a handful of QB's that could win you a Super Bowl. Shelling out $100 million to a bus driver is ******* stupid. Just as if the Steelers decide to break the bank with Roethlisberger on his next contract.

Giving a player that much money means that you believe he's a franchise player, which Eli is not no matter how you try and spin it. The numbers don't lie.

I'm all for maintaining stability at the QB position, but not at that price. Not only have the Giants overpaid, they have also set a barometer for guys like Cutler and Rivers when their contracts are up. If Eli is commanding $15 million a season, I can only imagine what these guys are going to get if they continue to progress like they have so far.

When the pressure was on Eli to perform in the playoffs last year, he crumbled and you can expect more of that if the Giants don't find someone to take the weight off his shoulders in the passing game.

trkaline
08-06-2009, 02:11 PM
As its been mentioned numerous times the contracts are trend based, so if Rivers would have gotten an extension first and Eli had another almost season imagine what he would be getting paid next offseason. Good move by the Giants, Eli does benefit by his elite defense but every signal caller does. Like I said if Eli walks your taking a huge risk, of trials and errors that could take some years to recover from. I am not an Eli fan but most of it stems from the hype he got as little brother upon entering the NFL, but he plays his position and can win.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 02:21 PM
yeah i always found it funny when ppl say Eli just wins bc of a good defense and run game.

Like the Eagles, Cowboys, Chargers, Steelers, Titans, Ravens dont.

Maybe. Justtttttt maybe....thats what good teams do to win football games?

Maybe?

I know its a crazy thought, but just let it simmer in your head for a second. We might be onto something with this defense and run game theory.

Sniper
08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
Maybe. Justtttttt maybe....thats what good teams do to win football games?


It is. It still doesn't make Eli Manning worthy of his contract.

Geo
08-06-2009, 02:34 PM
In no order, here's who I'd definitely take ahead of Eli, assuming all are healthy.

My list:

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, and Matt Ryan. Aaron Rodgers, I'd like to see one more season at least to say for sure one way or another.

Otherwise I'd rather have Eli than anyone else. Pretty comfortable about it, actually.

bearsfan_51
08-06-2009, 02:41 PM
One more thing, can someone tell me what separates Big Ben and Eli... other than 1 All-star Season?? Big Ben has sucked every other year... even last year he didn't play so hot.
Big Ben is definitely overrated, but he's still better than Eli at almost every discernable category.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 02:49 PM
It is. It still doesn't make Eli Manning worthy of his contract.

trust me, i didn't want to pay him that much either. but at the end of the day, im ok with it.

im very comfortable with Eli as our qb for the next 6 years, and if it took 97 mill to get it done, im ok with it.

maybe my definition of a franchise qb is different from others, but I have full confidence in the Giants being contenders for the SB as long as he's our qb. And im willing to accept a large contract for that kind of assurance.

not many teams have that luxury.

Malaka
08-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Big Ben is definitely overrated, but he's still better than Eli at almost every discernable category.

I never made the argument that Eli > Big Ben, but some people consider Big Ben top ten but the difference between Eli and Big Ben is miniscule.

trkaline
08-06-2009, 03:21 PM
I never made the argument that Eli > Big Ben, but some people consider Big Ben top ten but the difference between Eli and Big Ben is miniscule.

The diference between Eli and Ben lies in Bens physical makeup.

bearsfan_51
08-06-2009, 03:24 PM
I never made the argument that Eli > Big Ben, but some people consider Big Ben top ten but the difference between Eli and Big Ben is miniscule.

Except no, it's not. Big Ben is a better version of Eli. In almost every possible way. It's not a HUGE difference, but it's a difference.

GB12
08-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Burress didn't become an elite WR until he came to the Giants. Another myth is how Eli doesn't make his teammates better. Really? What has Shockey done since he left NY? Watch what Toomer does this year. What has Hilliard done since he left? Tim Carter?
Now wait just a damn minute.

Jeremy Shockey - He was injured and missed 4 games. Even through that he put up a decent amount of yards. Given a full healthy season I'm sure he'll be better than what he was in New York.

Amani Toomer - Before Eli, Toomer had 5 straight 1,000 yard seasons. Since Eli took over he has zero. In fact he hasn't even topped 800 with Manning.

Ike Hilliard - In his only season with Eli Manning he had a year with just 437 yards and no TDs. Since he left he has had 3 years better than that.

Tim Carter - Tim Carter was never any good, not sure why you're bringing him up. In his only season as a Ram he had 117 yards and 1 TD, but his best season in 3 years with Eli was just 253 yards and 2 TDs.

You went 0/4 there, but nice try.

awfullyquiet
08-06-2009, 03:34 PM
another example of BBD trying to rationalize eli manning.

in other thoughs. didn't he just get his contract exteneded like last year? and i was like, wtf? his contract wasn't up. y'all overpayed him...

trkaline
08-06-2009, 04:13 PM
Another factor I believe that helped Eli secure these big bucks is his brother and his play. They are hoping one day Eli will transform into Peyton, I don't see it happening but at the end of the day he is there guy,has been there guy and will continue to be there guy and if you don't think he's a franchise QB his contract would like to argue otherwise.

scottyboy
08-06-2009, 04:19 PM
we all know he's over-paid. Even the biggest Giants homers have to admit he's overpaid. There's no way around it. But you know what? we don't really care. He's a top 10-15 QB that won a Super Bowl, has control and leadership of this team(now that the freakin psycho's like Plax, Tiki and Shockey are gone), and has all but mastered the NY media. He's our big name player and the face of the franchise. He gives us stability at the QB position which is very hard to find in today's NFL. The Giants had no choice but to give him the money he was asking, and we paid up. We're obviously fine with it and got that settled and can look to the season and fill our other holes(which we don't have all too many of). It's a win-win and I'm fine with it. Obviously I think it's a **** ton of money, and too much for him, but I'm fine with it and so are the Giants.

and you guys are crazy if you don't think some QB desperate team out there wouldn't have ponied up for Eli if he hit the market. Would he have gotten THIS much money? maybe/probably not. But if 2-3 teams got in a bidding war over a young, battle tested, super bowl winning and super bowl MVP QB, than yes, he would've gotten this much and perhaps even more.

but hey, keep bashing Eli. It's all good. and to quote Kicking and Screaming (such an awesome movie btw) his "super bowl ring is making too much noise"

:)

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Burress didn't become an elite WR until he came to the Giants. Another myth is how Eli doesn't make his teammates better. Really? What has Shockey done since he left NY? Watch what Toomer does this year. What has Hilliard done since he left? Tim Carter?



Now this is a crock of ****, if i've ever heard one. You do realize that Plaxico has his best year yardage wise as a Steeler, right? That, he only broke the 1k yard mark in New York twice, something he had already done previously in Pittsburgh. His touchdowns went up in New York, yes, but that's because he was hands down the number one target. He always played second fiddle to Hines Ward in Pittsburgh. I don't wanna hear any of this "Plaxico was nothing without Eli". On the other hand, look at what the Giants and Eli did without Plaxico. How convenient that no one remembers last year when they gagged in the playoffs against the Eagles after being the 1 seed in the NFC. Yeah, Eli had his hand in that loss, with his typical bus-driver stat line of 2 int's, 0 td's and 40.7 Qb rating. I still remember him looking like a deer in the headlights when the Eagles kept popping him in the mouth.

Now wait just a damn minute.

Jeremy Shockey - He was injured and missed 4 games. Even through that he put up a decent amount of yards. Given a full healthy season I'm sure he'll be better than what he was in New York.

Amani Toomer - Before Eli, Toomer had 5 straight 1,000 yard seasons. Since Eli took over he has zero. In fact he hasn't even topped 800 with Manning.

Ike Hilliard - In his only season with Eli Manning he had a year with just 437 yards and no TDs. Since he left he has had 3 years better than that.

Tim Carter - Tim Carter was never any good, not sure why you're bringing him up. In his only season as a Ram he had 117 yards and 1 TD, but his best season in 3 years with Eli was just 253 yards and 2 TDs.

You went 0/4 there, but nice try.

0/5, Actually.


and you guys are crazy if you don't think some QB desperate team out there wouldn't have ponied up for Eli if he hit the market. Would he have gotten THIS much money? maybe/probably not.
Okay, it looks like you MIGHT be starting to make sense...

yes, he would've gotten this much and perhaps even more.


Then you go and contradict yourself. How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even make sense?

bearsfan_51
08-06-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm absolutely positive that Eli would have gotten this much money from someone. If that makes it the right move to Giants fans then so be it. Cost of doing business.

But Eli is not a top 10 QB. No way.

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 05:11 PM
Eli might not be a top 10 QB, but you know he's good enough to:

Lead an offense
Protect the ball when need be
win the in the playoffs
lead comebacks in the fourth quarter
score with his arm
win superbowls

After the issues franchises like Tampa, New York Jets, Buffalo, Denver (post elway), Washington, jacksonville, Houston, Baltimore (pre flacco), Cleveland, Miami (pre Pennington), Detroit, Arizona (pre Warner who's not a long term option), Chicago (pre Cutler), 49ers

Have had in recent times finding QBs who can run and offense, let alone make their team competitive it's not hard to understand a team wanting to lock up a guy who can do the above long term.

Realistically long term (next 5 seasons) the only teams in the NFL set at QB (as it appears RIGHT NOW) are:

New York Giants
Pittsburgh Steelers
Atlanta Falcons
Baltimore Ravens
San Diego Chargers
Chicago Bears
Green bay Packers
Dallas Cowboys (depending on your level of hard on for Romo)

If McNabb, Brees, Brady, Manning (p), have more years in their legs (5) then count those franchises too.

But for now, the teams in the NFL with their future secure at the QB position (that is, franchises with youthful QBs who can do the above), aren't exactly in abundance and with the way the finance of the NFL is going Eli's deal will be a top tier, but still relatively middle of the road deal by then.

scottyboy
08-06-2009, 06:04 PM
0/5, Actually.


Okay, it looks like you MIGHT be starting to make sense...



Then you go and contradict yourself. How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even make sense?

quoting out of context is awesome. I obviously stated if he hit the market and 2-3 teams got in a bidding war, then he would've gotten that much money. reading comprehension is fun!

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 06:10 PM
quoting out of context is awesome. I obviously stated if he hit the market and 2-3 teams got in a bidding war, then he would've gotten that much money. reading comprehension is fun!

You said if he hit the open market he "maybe/probably" doesn't get that much. Then you started talking about the bidding war. Or do bidding wars NOT happen in the open market? Hmm.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 06:10 PM
0/5, Actually.


Okay, it looks like you MIGHT be starting to make sense...



Then you go and contradict yourself. How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even make sense?

You just love my attention don't you?

This is how I know its football season. MetSox is already on my nutsack.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 06:14 PM
You just love my attention don't you?

This is how I know its football season. MetSox is already on my nutsack.

Lol, i don't love your attention, and i sure as hell am not on your nutsack, i just want a response for my counter-argument, or for you to admit that you're making ridiculous statements in hopes that we just let them slip by.

And don't feel too special, i'm this adamant about my opinions with everyone, not just you. Just ask scottykid, Mr. Stiller, Number 10, Sniper...

bearsfan_51
08-06-2009, 06:15 PM
Lead an offense
In the sense that he's a quarterback on a good offense, sure.

Protect the ball when need be
Not really. Eli has lots a lot of games for the Giants.
win the in the playoffs
In 2008 yes. The other three years he's 0-3
lead comebacks in the fourth quarter
I'll give you this.
score with his arm
This sounds like something Sean Salisbury would say. You're on slippery ground.
win superbowls
Superbowl. Something other illustrious quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Mark Rypien have done.
I don't disagree with the rest. Like I said, the Giants feel like they need him so this is what they do to keep him. But Eli is nothing special.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 06:16 PM
Lol, i don't love your attention, and i sure as hell am not on your nutsack, i just want a response for my counter-argument, or for you to admit that you're making ridiculous statements in hopes that we just let them slip by.

And don't feel too special, i'm this adamant about my opinions with everyone, not just you. Just ask scottykid, Mr. Stiller, Number 10, Sniper...

Ive stated before its pointless. I can write a damn book on Eli, but whats the point? Nobody is going to change their minds about him, on either side.

I'll just let the season unfold, and if im wrong, im wrong. If Im right, I'm right. Thats all there is to it.

MetSox17
08-06-2009, 06:20 PM
I'll just let the season unfold, and if im wrong, im wrong. If Im right, I'm right. Thats all there is to it.

From the school of redundancy school.

If you're wrong, i want you to admit you're wrong. And if i am, i'll gladly admit it. I have no problem accepting when i'm incorrect. You can remember this at the end of the season, if he has a good year, i'll give my respects to him, but if he puts up another sub-par season, you better get used to hearing a lot of **** thrown your way from me.

bigbluedefense
08-06-2009, 06:23 PM
From the school of redundancy school.

If you're wrong, i want you to admit you're wrong. And if i am, i'll gladly admit it. I have no problem accepting when i'm incorrect. You can remember this at the end of the season, if he has a good year, i'll give my respects to him, but if he puts up another sub-par season, you better get used to hearing a lot of **** thrown your way from me.

I will. I always have. I made a thread on Matt Ryan admitting I was wrong on him. I have no problem pointing out when Im wrong. Ive done it many times before.

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 06:30 PM
In the sense that he's a quarterback on a good offense, sure.

In a sense that no offense is considered good without at least competitive quarterbacking, sure.


Not really. Eli has lots a lot of games for the Giants.

Examples? or are we throwing out random claims here?

Last year the giants had a +9 turnover differential, good enough for 5th in the league.


In 2008 yes. The other three years he's 0-3

One of those years he was a sophmore in his first playoff game facing a very good Carolina defense (05).

He certainly wasn't bad against philly in 06 and in 07 he was as close to perfect as a quarterback can be. Even if you really want to stress the issue you can blame 2 play off losses on Eli. So that would make 2 losses his fault and 4 wins including a ring due to his play? Not many fans would turn down a perfect playoff run followed by a poor game the next year.

This year against the eagles his second interception game late in the game when realistically, it was already over. In that game his running game was poor (failing twice to pick up short yardage situations in the fourth qtr a 3rd and 1 and a 4th and 2), the defense was poor and the special teams were poor (2 missed FGs). Eli Contributed, but it was a bad team game, not inherently due to Eli failing.


This sounds like something Sean Salisbury would say. You're on slippery ground.

What I meant is, he's more than capable of putting up points in the redzone, which a lot of QBs struggle with, he's also able to hit fade's, consistently, which is a weapon every team loves to have.


Superbowl. Something other illustrious quarterbacks like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Mark Rypien have done.
I don't disagree with the rest. Like I said, the Giants feel like they need him so this is what they do to keep him. But Eli is nothing special.

Dilfer, Johnson and Rypien didn't score in the final minutes and didn't break out of sacks trying to outgun the greatest offense ever to have been seen in the NFL.

Manning faced off against the greatest coach in modern NFL history and had to outscore the greatest offense ever to have taken the field and he did it with the pressure of the final seconds ticking away throwing to an injured receiver who could only cut in one direction.

His performance and what he achieved is in a different universe to what the other three guys did.

You're better than this.

Seamus2602
08-06-2009, 06:34 PM
As things stand, Eli Manning isn't the best player in the NFL, not even the best Quarterback in the NFL, not even in the top 5 Quarterbacks in the NFL. Hell, he probably isn't even the best player on his team. So, why should he get paid the most money in the NFL?

Because the Giants were willing to pay him it. And I think we can all agree that, as things stand, Eli Manning is worth $4.25 Million better than Matt Stafford.

bearsfan_51
08-06-2009, 06:40 PM
As things stand, Eli Manning isn't the best player in the NFL, not even the best Quarterback in the NFL, not even in the top 5 Quarterbacks in the NFL. Hell, he probably isn't even the best player on his team. So, why should he get paid the most money in the NFL?

Because the Giants were willing to pay him it. And I think we can all agree that, as things stand, Eli Manning is worth $4.25 Million better than Matt Stafford.
Call me crazy, but if I'm the Lions I might actually roll the dice on Stafford instead of taking Eli. It's not like they have much to lose.

Now, if I'm the Giants I obviously take the sure thing in Eli.

Brothgar
08-06-2009, 06:49 PM
From the school of redundancy school.

If you're wrong, i want you to admit you're wrong. And if i am, i'll gladly admit it. I have no problem accepting when i'm incorrect. You can remember this at the end of the season, if he has a good year, i'll give my respects to him, but if he puts up another sub-par season, you better get used to hearing a lot of **** thrown your way from me.



I will. I always have. I made a thread on Matt Ryan admitting I was wrong on him. I have no problem pointing out when Im wrong. Ive done it many times before.

Do I smell sig bet?

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 06:55 PM
Do I smell sig bet?

Not much point anymore, last one I made wasn't honored :(

Brothgar
08-06-2009, 07:09 PM
Not much point anymore, last one I made wasn't honored :(

Who was this person I propose a rep rape of that person!

josh07039
08-06-2009, 07:14 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but I've skimmed a bit and have gotten the gist of most of the arguments. I'll throw in my two cents.
It is a bit off putting that a guy who isn't close to the best at his position is the highest paid player in the league, but it makes sense. He's not being paid all that money because of his overall talent, he's being paid for his value to the Giants. From the perspective of the Giants, there is no way they could ever let their young, super bowl winning quarterback leave. They needed to lock him up long term. Additionally, since if is such a long term deal, by the 3rd year or so, it won't be such a big deal, especially after an uncapped season and renegotiation with the union. I understand the basis for the deal, but I still am a little uncomfortable with him being paid more than the rest of the league(Peyton especially).

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Caddy and I had a sig bet meant to run from final regular season game through the draft for highest division finish.

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 07:15 PM
I haven't read the whole thread, but I've skimmed a bit and have gotten the gist of most of the arguments. I'll throw in my two cents.
It is a bit off putting that a guy who isn't close to the best at his position is the highest paid player in the league, but it makes sense. He's not being paid all that money because of his overall talent, he's being paid for his value to the Giants. From the perspective of the Giants, there is no way they could ever let their young, super bowl winning quarterback leave. They needed to lock him up long term. Additionally, since if is such a long term deal, by the 3rd year or so, it won't be such a big deal, especially after an uncapped season and renegotiation with the union. I understand the basis for the deal, but I still am a little uncomfortable with him being paid more than the rest of the league(Peyton especially).

It's also a big time supply and demand thing. As I pointed out the number of good Qbs, is far outweighed by the number of bad ones, and what the good Qb can get you over the years far outweighs what little you gain over the years with bad ones.

scottyboy
08-06-2009, 08:28 PM
You said if he hit the open market he "maybe/probably" doesn't get that much. Then you started talking about the bidding war. Or do bidding wars NOT happen in the open market? Hmm.

wow, you don't know how free agency works do you?

If one team offered Eli a deal, let's just say same length, and for funsies we'll go $80 mil. Eli could very well accept that and move on, if no other team enters the fray. HOWEVER, say another team needs a QB and wants Eli. They proceed to get in a bidding war with team A and jack up the price til one matches. Not every FA who hits the market will have a bidding war over them.

open market does not always equal bidding wars.

Bigburt63
08-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Dilfer, Johnson and Rypien didn't score in the final minutes and didn't break out of sacks trying to outgun the greatest offense ever to have been seen in the NFL.

Manning faced off against the greatest coach in modern NFL history and had to outscore the greatest offense ever to have taken the field and he did it with the pressure of the final seconds ticking away throwing to an injured receiver who could only cut in one direction.

His performance and what he achieved is in a different universe to what the other three guys did.

You're better than this.

Neither did Manning...because his defense was so good that game (I'd day year, but they were ridiculous that game, and weren't at THAT level all year). Although he did lead the drive...I gotta cede that point.

BlindSite
08-06-2009, 09:17 PM
Neither did Manning...because his defense was so good that game (I'd day year, but they were ridiculous that game, and weren't at THAT level all year). Although he did lead the drive...I gotta cede that point.

Both defenses played great football that day. NE only conceded 17 points and NY only 14.

The final drive though was excellent

3-S.Gostkowski kicks 67 yards from NE 30 to NYG 3.
87-D.Hixon to NYG 17 for 14 yards (41-R.Ventrone).

1-10-NYG 17 (2:39) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 81-A.Toomer to NYG 28 for 11 yards (37-R.Harrison).
1-10-NYG 28 (2:09) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to 17-P.Burress.
2-10-NYG 28 (2:04) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short left to 17-P.Burress.
Two-Minute Warning
3-10-NYG 28 (1:59) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 81-A.Toomer to NYG 37 for 9 yards (37-R.Harrison).
4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).
1-10-NYG 39 (1:2 (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning scrambles right tackle to NYG 44 for 5 yards (96-A.Thomas).
Timeout #1 by NYG at 01:20.
2-5-NYG 44 (1:20) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete deep right to 85-D.Tyree.
3-5-NYG 44 (1:15) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass deep middle to 85-D.Tyree to NE 24 for 32 yards (37-R.Harrison).
Timeout #2 by NYG at 00:59.
1-10-NE 24 (:59) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning sacked at NE 25 for -1 yards (96-A.Thomas).
Timeout #3 by NYG at 00:51.
2-11-NE 25 (:51) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass incomplete short left to 85-D.Tyree (31-B.Meriweather).
3-11-NE 25 (:45) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 12-S.Smith pushed ob at NE 13 for 12 yards (31-B.Meriweather).
1-10-NE 13 (:39) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 17-P.Burress for 13 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgyB_V1lebM

Dam8610
08-06-2009, 09:48 PM
I think that people forget that it is not the actual dollars and cents of the new contract that matter as much as the % of the cap that contract actually uses.

Eli Manning's contract 2009: 6 years 97.5 Mil. 35 guaranteed
let us for the sake of argument say that he does go ahead and make 75% of
Guaranteed money in 2009: ~5.83 Mil
Likely to be obtained money: ~5.20 Mil
Total guesstimated cap hit: 11.03 Mil

NFL 2009 Salary cap figure: ~$127,000,000

Guesstimated salary cap %: ~5.00%

Or if we use the Media's 15.3 Mil per year figure
Estimated salary cap %: ~12.04

In 2004 the Colts gave Peyton Manning a 7 year 99.2 Mil contract. The media figure for that was 14.17 Mil per year in a time when the salary cap was a meager 34.6 Mil

Media figure: 14.17 Mil
2004 Salary Cap: 34.6 Mil
Estimated salary cap %: 38.9%

so when you look at it in terms of salary cap percentages (which is really how you should look at things because in the NFL, money really isn't the limiting factor as much as cap dollars.) Peyton was/is considered vastly more important than Eli ever was.

sources
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/08/ny_giants_on_the_verge_of_bloc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salary_cap#Salary_cap_in_the_NFL
http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

The salary cap has jumped a lot since 2004, but it hasn't jumped $100 million. The cap was ~$85 million in 2004 as I recall.

Brothgar
08-06-2009, 10:00 PM
The salary cap has jumped a lot since 2004, but it hasn't jumped $100 million. The cap was ~$85 million in 2004 as I recall.

Sorry that was 1994 :( I fail. But my point is still valid. Payton's contract took up a much higher percentage of the cap than Eli did. Also on ESPN they said that Eli is the second highest paid QB in the league. Carson Palmer is paid more according to ESPN.

CC.SD
08-06-2009, 11:38 PM
I'm on board with Eli and this contract (purely due to his value to the organization, which is well deserved) but I've yet to see a really convincing argument centered around eli's Super Bowl performance. Nothing really gives enough credit to the fact that Tyree caught the bell WITH HIS HELMET. It's not like he was lights out the whole game...that drive got them the win, and the drive's critical play owes quite a bit to a minor miracle.

Jughead10
08-06-2009, 11:44 PM
I'm on board with Eli and this contract (purely due to his value to the organization, which is well deserved) but I've yet to see a really convincing argument centered around eli's Super Bowl performance. Nothing really gives enough credit to the fact that Tyree caught the bell WITH HIS HELMET. It's not like he was lights out the whole game...that drive got them the win, and the drive's critical play owes quite a bit to a minor miracle.

His Super Bowl performance wasn't amazing but he certainly played more than well enough to win. Late in the game not only did he lead that drive, but also the one before that. The last two times the Giants had the ball they scored on TD passes. Tyree's catch was only half the play, Eli not getting sacked and finding the one on one coverage was a minor miracle in itself. He outplayed the opposing QB and he outplayed the last couple of Super Bowl winning QBs.