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View Full Version : Josh McDaniels' Latest Screw Up


Thumper
08-10-2009, 07:48 PM
So I don't think we bash him enough and quite frankly I am now convinced he is a complete and total idiot. After trading their Franchise QB, implementing a 34 defense, driving Jarvis Moss to the brink of retirement, completely screwing up the draft, going on a very obviously unplanned Free Agency Spending spree and trading their first round pick for Alphonso Smith he does this:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Marshall-bumped-to-second-string.html

Yes, you read that correctly, Josh McDaniels has benched Brandon Marshall in favor of Jabar Gaffney. Yeah, and they expect him to want to stay in Denver? They expect him to play hard for a disrespectful and dishonest coach? Please, you don't bench a guy like Marshall, he is a great young receiver and you're going to bench him? Haha McDaniels you are a total failure.

bigbluedefense
08-10-2009, 07:56 PM
itz the systemzzzz

Bellichick disciples never learn.

Although Im sure its just an overreaction. He's doing it to "motivate" Marshall. I see it backfiring on his dumbass though.

Bigburt63
08-10-2009, 07:57 PM
hasn't marshall not been practicing?

PACKmanN
08-10-2009, 08:06 PM
hasn't marshall not been practicing?

i've read he is hurt.

CashmoneyDrew
08-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Marshall won't be a Denver Bronco after the trade deadline has passed. There I said it.

MetSox17
08-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I agree with BBD. He isn't ******** enough to actually believe Gaffney is a better WR. What the hell does he need motivation for? He is a top flight WR and he has proven it, he needs to stop being cute with **** like this and just coach football. When you don't think he can look any stupider, he does this.

Paul
08-10-2009, 08:24 PM
In McDaniel's defense, I wouldn't call their draft a "complete screwup". There were some odd moves throughout, but they came away with some good talent.

RaiderNation
08-10-2009, 08:27 PM
Good news :D

fenikz
08-10-2009, 08:32 PM
ITS A TRAP!

Broncos have us all fooled

cvv84
08-10-2009, 08:37 PM
In McDaniel's defense, I wouldn't call their draft a "complete screwup". There were some odd moves throughout, but they came away with some good talent.

Same here. I thought it was stupid to trade Cutler away but Moreno should be a workhorse for them. I don't think he'll be a 1300 yard rusher but he should be a good "yardage" guy.

I'm not an Ayers fan at all but he should be solid and provide versitality. The only move that really dumbfounded me was trading next years 1st round pick for Alphonso Smith.

And as for Marshall being lower on the depth chart, unless McDaniels is looking to get fired in his 1st year Marshall will obviously be a big part of their offense. Unfortunately Kyle Orton is also a big part of their offense which hurts them...

D-Unit
08-10-2009, 08:45 PM
I blame ownership. Daniels has the potential to be a great HC. What he's not is a GM. The handling of Cutler, the draft... those are all GM responsibilities.

Geo
08-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Let's see Gaffney start ahead of Marshall come the start of the season, and that will be a story.

We haven't even hit the first preseason game yet.

Plus didn't Marshall have a minor setback in his hip or something a week ago?

Thumper
08-10-2009, 08:50 PM
In McDaniel's defense, I wouldn't call their draft a "complete screwup". There were some odd moves throughout, but they came away with some good talent.

Well lets look here, they draft Knowshon Moreno after signing a stable of running backs to add to their stable of running backs they already had.
They draft Robert Ayers a 4-3 LE to play OLB in the 3-4 Defense
They failed to address the defensive line
They traded what will likely be the first overall pick for Alphonso Smith
They drafted Darcel McBath after signing Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.
They drafted Richard Quinn in the second round (huge reach) even though they already had Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler.

All they really did was create a giant cluster- of players at WR, RB, TE, S and QB when they clearly needed a ton of help along the defensive line and in the linebacking core. Did they get some decent players? Yeah, but the fashion in which they did it was not pretty and they reached on players and they brought in players that don't fit their schemes.

JFLO
08-10-2009, 09:12 PM
Let's see Gaffney start ahead of Marshall come the start of the season, and that will be a story.

We haven't even hit the first preseason game yet.

Plus didn't Marshall have a minor setback in his hip or something a week ago?

I know he had a hamstring issue a couple weeks back...

I don't think they would move him to the #2 slot if he was injured though, you would think they would just make him inactive for a week or two...

I don't know about this though. McDaniels is showing his age and hairless nutsack at the same time.

cvv84
08-10-2009, 09:24 PM
Well lets look here, they draft Knowshon Moreno after signing a stable of running backs to add to their stable of running backs they already had.
They draft Robert Ayers a 4-3 LE to play OLB in the 3-4 Defense
They failed to address the defensive line
They traded what will likely be the first overall pick for Alphonso Smith
They drafted Darcel McBath after signing Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.
They drafted Richard Quinn in the second round (huge reach) even though they already had Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler.

All they really did was create a giant cluster- of players at WR, RB, TE, S and QB when they clearly needed a ton of help along the defensive line and in the linebacking core. Did they get some decent players? Yeah, but the fashion in which they did it was not pretty and they reached on players and they brought in players that don't fit their schemes.

Are you saying that Moreno isn't any better than all the guys that they signed at RB? LaMont Jordan signed for 2 years and Correll Buckhalter signed for 4 years. With Moreno they have a guy for the long term.

I already stated that I'm not a huge Robert Ayers but where do you think most of the 3-4 rush LBs come from? The majority of the time they are 4-3 defensive ends in college. The Bronco's will also mix in some 4-3 so they can use Ayers at either DT or DE.

I'm not a fan of their 3-4 defensive line either. I think that Ronald Fields will translate though. Ryan McBean was drafted by the Steelers so they obviously saw something that they liked. However the Steelers were looking for future DE's the past few years and they cut McBean so that says something.

Didn't like the Alphonso Smith pick since it cost them next years 1st round pick.

Dawkins will be 36 this year and the final 4 years of the 5 year contract that he signed are voidable. They now have a guy for the future who can learn from Dawkins for this year. Hill is a solid player and his contract is fairly cheap. Only $3 million guaranteed. He could be gone after 2 years.

Drafting a TE was questionable but for some reason every year they try to trade Scheffler. Graham though is starting to get expensive and has never been an overly productive receiving TE. Still a 2nd round pick for basically a #3 TE this year has be questioned.

ChezPower4
08-10-2009, 09:54 PM
Josh McDaniels will not have a job at the end of this season if Denver is bad.

CC.SD
08-10-2009, 11:36 PM
I'm the first to jump on the mcDaniels is an idiot wagon, but Marshall is injured and this is a non-story.

locseti
08-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Marshall isn't even practicing.

Correll Buckhalter is listed as the No. 1 running back, followed by LaMont Jordan and then Peyton Hillis. Rookie Knowshon Moreno is listed fourth, though he took significant first-team reps on Monday morning.

This preseason depth chart is meaningless.

Brent
08-11-2009, 12:10 AM
The Bronco's will also mix in some 4-3 so they can use Ayers at either DT or DE
Nolan's defense is too ****** for it to ever work. Look at the Niners' defense after he left, it was like night and day it had improved so much. Don't by the idea that Nolan is a good D-coordinator.

Ravens1991
08-11-2009, 12:36 AM
that is true Nolan made a name in Baltimore where Ozzie was the mastermind behind it all.

Matthew Jones
08-11-2009, 12:41 AM
It doesn't really matter who's on the field, it just matters what they can get done on it. I agree with people who say McDaniels has made a lot of questionable decisions, but at the same time, he's getting chased out of town a little quickly considering he hasn't coached a single game yet. This team could end up being pretty good for all we know. I'm not saying I think it will be pretty good, but no one can say with any certainty that it'll be bad, either. Let's see what it looks like when they're playing the games.

GhostDeini
08-11-2009, 12:57 AM
This clown has sabotaged the Broncos franchise. They already had more pieces than half of the league. All he had to do was draft Peria Jerry, B.Orakpo or L.English 12th. I dont mind the Ayers pick that much though, he could turn out like P.Merling (3-4 DE).
Jerry/Orakpo/English with Ayers would've been a decent start to a 3-4.The offensive side was set for years to come. Broncos could've made noise this season too. Imagine having worst record in the league with no 1st rounder that year, LMFAO!!....Josh McDaniels might be worse than Matt Millen.

superman8456
08-11-2009, 01:00 AM
I dont think trading a 1st for Alphonso Smith is that big of a deal anyway. He would have been a top 10 pick if he was 6 foot or he ran a 4.3. He is just a playmaker and a ballhawk.

Thumper
08-11-2009, 01:14 AM
This clown has sabotaged the Broncos franchise. They already had more pieces than half of the league. All he had to do was draft Peria Jerry, B.Orakpo or L.English 12th. I dont mind the Ayers pick that much though, he could turn out like P.Merling (3-4 DE).
Jerry/Orakpo/English with Ayers would've been a decent start to a 3-4.The offensive side was set for years to come. Broncos could've made noise this season too. Imagine having worst record in the league with no 1st rounder that year, LMFAO!!....Josh McDaniels might be worse than Matt Millen.

EXACTLY!

Just think, right now the Denver Broncos could be running a spread offense with Marshall, Royal and Stokely(sp?) and Jay Cutler at the helm, they could be running a 3-4 with Brian Orakpo at the OLB spot, Evander Hood at the DE spot, and Ron Brace at the NT spot. But nope, instead of having one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL, you've got an offense with Orton at QB. And instead of having the most promising young 3-4 defense in the NFL, you've got a defensive line consisting of nobodies, no NT and no every down OLB.

I think that Ayers is a 4-3 base LE not a 3-4 OLB.

Timbathia
08-11-2009, 02:08 AM
This is without doubt the stupidest thread I have ever seen in a football forum anywhere. BMarsh missed all of the OTAs, and has practiced one day since training camp started due to his hip injury. As of right now, Gaffney should be in front of him on the depth chart as he has taken ALL of the first team reps. Pre-season depth charts mean nothing at all in terms of the actual season. Players and anyone that knows anything about football knows that.

You havent started a thread about Dwayne Bowe not taking reps with the first team offense in KC due to him not working hard enough, so this thread is just obviously the blind McDaniels hatred coming out again.

McDaniels obviously mishandled the Cutler saga, but the rest of the stuff you have listed as being terrible or his fault is a load of garbage and the fact some of you cant leave it alone is pretty sad.

Each player Denver drafted in the first 2 rounds will play a role in the team this year. All of the guys they brought in fits their scheme, provide back-ups for aging players or will be exceptional on special teams. If you understood that multi-skilled RBs and 2 TE-sets (with TEs that can block and catch) are the key to the versatility needed in combating the 3-4 (which is becoming the defense of choice in the NFL), then you wouldnt be bashing the Moreno and Quinn picks. After Raji there was exactly f-all as far as NTs in the draft. Ronald Fields is just as good as anyone else in the draft as a NT. Why take a guy that will sit on the bench in his first year anyway and has a career upside that is nothing special?

Why not start a thread about how McDaniels is running a training camp that everyone is raving about as being so much better than anything Shanahan ever did? Why not go on about the defense that Shanahan left McDaniels that was totally inept, and incredibly light for a defensive front 7 (it is now still inept, but at least McDaniels has added over 100 pounds to that front 7). Just easier to blame that on McDaniels I suppose. Shanahan drafted a DE bust in Jarvis Moss (he is too light to play DE). Now McDaniels is trying to resurrect his career as an OLB, gave him a few days off to deal with some personal issues before taking him back with open arms, but is somehow in your opinion driving him to the brink of retirement.

You obviously dont know the first thing about the Broncos, so why dont you stay quiet than prove it to everyone.

McDaniels may have made a few misjudgments, but has made a heap of good moves since then and he will be a damn good coach in the NFL. Basically everyone in the media has now realized that (including in Denver where he was universally panned when Cutler left), but there are still some dimwits in here that cant let go.

Boston
08-11-2009, 02:12 AM
And.........nobody cares! You can't complain like this until you've actually seen a few regular season games.

Gay Ork Wang
08-11-2009, 05:19 AM
I dont think trading a 1st for Alphonso Smith is that big of a deal anyway. He would have been a top 10 pick if he was 6 foot or he ran a 4.3. He is just a playmaker and a ballhawk.
but he isnt?

Bigburt63
08-11-2009, 08:32 AM
So I don't think we bash him enough and quite frankly I am now convinced he is a complete and total idiot. After trading their Franchise QB, implementing a 34 defense, driving Jarvis Moss to the brink of retirement, completely screwing up the draft, going on a very obviously unplanned Free Agency Spending spree and trading their first round pick for Alphonso Smith he does this:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Marshall-bumped-to-second-string.html

Yes, you read that correctly, Josh McDaniels has benched Brandon Marshall in favor of Jabar Gaffney. Yeah, and they expect him to want to stay in Denver? They expect him to play hard for a disrespectful and dishonest coach? Please, you don't bench a guy like Marshall, he is a great young receiver and you're going to bench him? Haha McDaniels you are a total failure.

Well lets look here, they draft Knowshon Moreno after signing a stable of running backs to add to their stable of running backs they already had.
They draft Robert Ayers a 4-3 LE to play OLB in the 3-4 Defense
They failed to address the defensive line
They traded what will likely be the first overall pick for Alphonso Smith
They drafted Darcel McBath after signing Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.
They drafted Richard Quinn in the second round (huge reach) even though they already had Daniel Graham and Tony Scheffler.

All they really did was create a giant cluster- of players at WR, RB, TE, S and QB when they clearly needed a ton of help along the defensive line and in the linebacking core. Did they get some decent players? Yeah, but the fashion in which they did it was not pretty and they reached on players and they brought in players that don't fit their schemes.

First off, how is implementing a 3-4 defense bad? The 4-3 was TERRIBLE before. Jarvis Moss was a bust at 4-3 DE and did not want to switch positions to OLB in the 3-4 (a position many had him projected to when he came out in the draft). If he wants to retire, thats on him not McDaniels. What is McDaniels supposed to do, change his whole defense to adjust to the desires of one bust? :rolleyes:

Look closely at the "FA spending spree." Alot of those guys were either in NE or were being looked at heavily in NE, which, coincidently, runs the same system that McDaniels is trying to implement!

The pick may or may not end up being that high (1st overall), but I don't think it will. That offense has too much firepower to lose that many games, and the defense can only go up. I already posted my feelings about how Cutler (although VASTLY more taleneted than Orton) may not have fit the mold of the QB McDaniels wants (i.e. he is a gunslinger type).

And as far as the whole Marshall thing..he isn't practicing because of injury. Thus, he should be on the second team as he has far less reps in a new offense than the others, specifically Gaffney who played in the same system for 2 years in NE.

no bare feet
08-11-2009, 09:16 AM
but he isnt?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver Bronco27
i firmly think that if smith was 2 inches taller he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a very good college CB...just short


while i dont agree with the pick, he is a very talented player
---------------------------------------------------------------
but he is not 2 inches taller.




I don't know how to double quote or whatever but that was my response to someone else about A. Smith.

: )

FlyingElvis
08-11-2009, 09:34 AM
This thread is awesome. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt my feelings as a fan. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt Brandon Marshall's feelings, Moss' feelings and got Jay Cutler's panties so bunched up they broke his vagina.

Holy drama queens . . . yet no Broncos fans seem willing to say "holy **** we had a truckload of prima donna bitches on our squad" and good riddance.

The Cutler situation was a two way drama show that exposed Cutler as a wide receiver-esque crybaby and McDaniels as a green HC. None of the other things mentioned in the first post have any value.

A pre-preseason depth chart? Who the **** cares?

Damning his move from one D scheme to another when the Broncos clearly couldn't handle the 4-3 . . . genius.

Deeming the entire draft a failure before a single exhibition game? Hey man, pass the crystal ball - or at least tell me tomorrow night's winnig powerball numbers.

no bare feet
08-11-2009, 09:45 AM
I really don't want to pass judgement at this time, but then again I like being that person that says "I told you so". Its hard to tell right now, it might be hard to tell after one year, but some decisions seem bonehead right now. Will they pan out, we will find out.

Bigburt63
08-11-2009, 09:47 AM
Side note. How is McDaniels disrespectful and dishonest?

superman8456
08-11-2009, 09:49 AM
but he isnt?

I'm saying just because of some measurables he wasnt a high draft pick. He has a lot of talent and can play football with the best of them.

Gay Ork Wang
08-11-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm saying just because of some measurables he wasnt a high draft pick. He has a lot of talent and can play football with the best of them.
yes. But he is not a top15 talent. Thats why he wasnt drafted there. If you have the measurables you have the chance to improve ur technique. If ur technique is good, u cant just say, lets grow 2 inches

superman8456
08-11-2009, 10:23 AM
yes. But he is not a top15 talent. Thats why he wasnt drafted there. If you have the measurables you have the chance to improve ur technique. If ur technique is good, u cant just say, lets grow 2 inches

I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.

no bare feet
08-11-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.

If Troy Smith was 6'4 he would have been 1st rounder :eek:

bigbluedefense
08-11-2009, 10:59 AM
The 4-3 wasn't terrible.

The players in the 4-3 were terrible.


The 3-4 is gonna suck just as hard for him this year. He brought in no players to help that front 7 transition to the 3-4 outside of Ayers.

And Ayers isn't a 3-4 LB at all.

They want to run him in a hybrid role, and I can understand that, but its hard to do so when everyone around the guy is crap.

You can only be versatile with your personnel when you have other players that allow for such versatility to happen without a dropoff in team production.

Gay Ork Wang
08-11-2009, 11:01 AM
I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.
no i havent. But 32 teams passed on him. Why trade a first round pick, the worse third round pick even for that? i dont see the reason. Seeing that he went in the 2nd round gives me to believe that he had his issues. If he is there in the 2nd round, why trade a way a potential top10 pick for a guy that was not even considered in the first round.

a 5.9 CB with a 4.5 is a pretty big deficit. How do you think he will match up with the top wide receivers that are up to 5-8 inches bigger than him?

bigbluedefense
08-11-2009, 11:03 AM
I like Alphonso Smith a lot. I loved him coming out.

But theres no way you can warrant that trade for him. He's a slot CB, who can cover smaller WRs in 2 WR sets, but he is not ever going to be worthy of what they gave up for him. He'd be an ok fit in a Cover 2 scheme.

Put a guy like Anquan Boldin or Kenny Britt etc on him, and he's gonna get destroyed in man coverage.

sweetness34
08-11-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm willing to bet you dont watch many Wake Forest games, and you're simply just talking out your ass. He has gotten 15 INT's in the last two years, playing in a pretty good conference. He wasnt drafted high because he is a 5'9 CB that ran a 4.5.

Smith for his size is a very nice prospect, but at 5'9" going up against guys who are going to be much bigger, stronger, and faster than him his physical tools are only going to get him so far. If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts then every day would be Christmas.

You cannot justify trading a first round pick for an undersized corner. I think Smith has a chance to be a good player in this league but with next years strong draft class (along with the possibility that Denver won't be any good at all next year), it means they might have traded a top 10 draft pick for a 5'9" cornerback, which in a weak draft class couldn't crack the first round.

I can play this game too. If Rex Grossman had any mental game he would've been a good QB in the NFL. It was a dumb move any way you slice it.

Bigburt63
08-11-2009, 11:22 AM
The 4-3 wasn't terrible.

The players in the 4-3 were terrible.


The 3-4 is gonna suck just as hard for him this year. He brought in no players to help that front 7 transition to the 3-4 outside of Ayers.

And Ayers isn't a 3-4 LB at all.

They want to run him in a hybrid role, and I can understand that, but its hard to do so when everyone around the guy is crap.

You can only be versatile with your personnel when you have other players that allow for such versatility to happen without a dropoff in team production.

That's what I meant, the current defense employing the 4-3 set was terrible, not the scheme. An overhaul to the 3-4 or staying in the 4-3 was needed. I would imagine that the defense will be more hybrid as they transition into the 3-4.

I agree that they didn't bring alot in to help the front 7, as I believe they should have. The only saving grace may be that a change in scheme could shake things up enough for the personnel, that they could be better. For instance, maybe Moss becomes a beast at 3-4 OLB (or at least serviceable), whereas he didn't do much at DE in the 4-3. Who knows, it could happen.

no bare feet
08-11-2009, 11:23 AM
That is if Moss doesn't retire.

bigbluedefense
08-11-2009, 11:26 AM
That's what I meant, the current defense employing the 4-3 set was terrible, not the scheme. An overhaul to the 3-4 or staying in the 4-3 was needed. I would imagine that the defense will be more hybrid as they transition into the 3-4.

I agree that they didn't bring alot in to help the front 7, as I believe they should have. The only saving grace may be that a change in scheme could shake things up enough for the personnel, that they could be better. For instance, maybe Moss becomes a beast at 3-4 OLB (or at least serviceable), whereas he didn't do much at DE in the 4-3. Who knows, it could happen.

they basically just need to completely overhaul the entire front 7. Ayers is a start. Dumerville can stay on board. But thats about it as far as im concerned.

3-4 ILBs are easy to find. You can get those in the middle rounds. But that front 3 is very tough to find. Thats gonna be the hard part to draft for.

Bigburt63
08-11-2009, 11:29 AM
they basically just need to completely overhaul the entire front 7. Ayers is a start. Dumerville can stay on board. But thats about it as far as im concerned.

3-4 ILBs are easy to find. You can get those in the middle rounds. But that front 3 is very tough to find. Thats gonna be the hard part to draft for.

No doubt, that defense was not a one offseason fix IMO. It can improve, but not into a stud defense without that DL. I was surprised they didn't go DL early, as BB does that alot (3 first round picks on the DL, with Brace a 2nd rounder this year). Pioli did the same thing in KC this year with Jackson at #3, somewhat surprising until you look at the way he drafted with BB in NE.

brat316
08-11-2009, 11:31 AM
Jarvis Moss was going to retire?

bigbluedefense
08-11-2009, 11:32 AM
No doubt, that defense was not a one offseason fix IMO. It can improve, but not into a stud defense without that DL. I was surprised they didn't go DL early, as BB does that alot (3 first round picks on the DL, with Brace a 2nd rounder this year). Pioli did the same thing in KC this year with Jackson at #3, somewhat surprising until you look at the way he drafted with BB in NE.

i agree. what was most surprising to me was not making a move for Ron Brace in round 2. if anything, that to me would be a more valid trade than giving up their 1st for Alphonso Smith.

Bigburt63
08-11-2009, 11:34 AM
i agree. what was most surprising to me was not making a move for Ron Brace in round 2. if anything, that to me would be a more valid trade than giving up their 1st for Alphonso Smith.

I don't remember what picks the broncos had, but I know the Pats traded up to 40 IIRC to get Brace. Maybe they heard chatter about a potential move like that? Brace was the consensus 2nd NT in the draft behind Raji. And I agree. As much as I loved Smith coming out, Brace would make alot more sense.

cvv84
08-11-2009, 12:24 PM
I like Alphonso Smith a lot. I loved him coming out.

But theres no way you can warrant that trade for him. He's a slot CB, who can cover smaller WRs in 2 WR sets, but he is not ever going to be worthy of what they gave up for him. He'd be an ok fit in a Cover 2 scheme.

Put a guy like Anquan Boldin or Kenny Britt etc on him, and he's gonna get destroyed in man coverage.

Thats just it though, the 3-4 defense uses alot more zone coverage in the secondary. If you look at the Patriots CBs in the past to present you have a 3rd rounder in Ellis Hobbs and 4th rounder in Asante Samuel and Jonathan Wilhite, 2nd rounders in Terrence Wheatley and Darius Butler.

The Broncos gave up a 1st round pick and used a 2nd round pick to draft Smith. Unless he becomes a Darrelle Revis, Chris McCallister, or Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie you have to question giving up 2 first day picks for a zone CB.

Staubach12
08-11-2009, 12:55 PM
McDaniels has not had a good offseason. He's got good intentions and maybe when he's not so green, he'll experience some success. But right now, this just gets worse and worse. Possibly one of the worst offseasons in NFL history.

Denver Bronco56
08-11-2009, 02:27 PM
The broncos have other talented players in the front 7; DJ Williams, Elvis Dummerville, Tim Crowder has been playing LIGHTS out in TC, Andre Davis was a very solid LB for cleveland

no bare feet
08-11-2009, 02:42 PM
The broncos have other talented players in the front 7; DJ Williams, Elvis Dummerville, Tim Crowder has been playing LIGHTS out in TC, Andre Davis was a very solid LB for cleveland

Didn't Ryan Fitzpatrick play lights out in a TC 3 years ago?

CC.SD
08-11-2009, 03:36 PM
Jarvis Moss was going to retire?

If he's not cut, he still might. Muy bustifico.

aNYtitan
08-11-2009, 03:50 PM
If he's not cut, he still might. Muy bustifico.

Jeez, 2 years into the league and already he has lost the will to play. IDK whether that is on him or on the coach.

Addict
08-11-2009, 04:03 PM
did you guys know that if BMW ran a 4.3 and was able to catch a ball he'd be the best wide receiver ever (after CJ)

A Perfect Score
08-11-2009, 05:46 PM
It doesnt matter what else he does this offseason, there is literally no way to rebound from trading away a 25 year old pro bowl QB. You can throw in all the if, ands, and buts you want, but that is a mistake you simply do not make. And you especially dont make it because you are too proud to swallow your ego and assure your FRANCHISE ******* QB that he wont be moved.

The Broncos defense could of been a 1 season fix. If they had been smart, kept Cutler, invested the first rounder in a stud rusher, and used a 2nd rounder on shoring up the Dline, they would be alot better off then they are now with Orton at QB and Ayers and Moreno on the team.

When its all said and done, McDaniels has taken a team with a ******** of pieces and dissasembled it so he can put it back together his way. He wasnt the right choice for the job in Denver.

Timbathia
08-11-2009, 06:08 PM
It doesnt matter what else he does this offseason, there is literally no way to rebound from trading away a 25 year old pro bowl QB. You can throw in all the if, ands, and buts you want, but that is a mistake you simply do not make. And you especially dont make it because you are too proud to swallow your ego and assure your FRANCHISE ******* QB that he wont be moved.

The Broncos defense could of been a 1 season fix. If they had been smart, kept Cutler, invested the first rounder in a stud rusher, and used a 2nd rounder on shoring up the Dline, they would be alot better off then they are now with Orton at QB and Ayers and Moreno on the team.

When its all said and done, McDaniels has taken a team with a ******** of pieces and dissasembled it so he can put it back together his way. He wasnt the right choice for the job in Denver.

You dont shore up a d-line that had zero quality pieces with a second-round d-lineman in a draft class devoid of depth at that position. Dumervil was thew only good piece on that line, and he is a situational rusher, not an every-down player. Fact is, McDaniels needed a completely new d-line, and 2 new linebackers. I guess he figured he couldnt do that in the draft, so he just got some bigger and more aggressive guys than were on the roster. Add in Dawkins and while they still suck as a unit, they will be much better at stopping the run by default.

Bowlen brought in McDaniels knowing that he wanted to bring in a more versatile offense similar to the Patriots. The only piece he got rid of was Cutler, and it is debatable as to whose fault that was. If you are convinced that McDaniels is the wrong choice, then have a go at Bowlen. McDaniels hasnt actually done that much wrong (Cutler and the Smith trade are the only ones with any legitimacy - and at least Smith is an above average player), as he has come in and put together an offense and defense that is much more versatile than was currently in place.

Next you are gonna try and pin Michael Jackson's murder on McDaniels as well.

A Perfect Score
08-11-2009, 06:18 PM
You dont shore up a d-line that had zero quality pieces with a second-round d-lineman in a draft class devoid of depth at that position. Dumervil was thew only good piece on that line, and he is a situational rusher, not an every-down player. Fact is, McDaniels needed a completely new d-line, and 2 new linebackers. I guess he figured he couldnt do that in the draft, so he just got some bigger and more aggressive guys than were on the roster. Add in Dawkins and while they still suck as a unit, they will be much better at stopping the run by default.

Bowlen brought in McDaniels knowing that he wanted to bring in a more versatile offense similar to the Patriots. The only piece he got rid of was Cutler, and it is debatable as to whose fault that was. If you are convinced that McDaniels is the wrong choice, then have a go at Bowlen. McDaniels hasnt actually done that much wrong (Cutler and the Smith trade are the only ones with any legitimacy - and at least Smith is an above average player), as he has come in and put together an offense and defense that is much more versatile than was currently in place.

Next you are gonna try and pin Michael Jackson's murder on McDaniels as well.

But the offense wasnt the problem. The defense was. So why Bowlen wanted a more versatile offense is still a mysterious. Case in point, you had a stud QB, a stud WR, a servicable offensive line and a system that allowed for a solid running game with anyone at RB. The Broncos fell apart because of the defense. So why did the offense need to be re-tooled again?

And there is literally no way you can put a positive spin on the Cutler trade. All Cutler wanted to hear from McDaniels after the rumor they went after Cassell was "I wont be traded." And since McDaniels has such a gigantic ego that he couldnt even say that, Cutler demanded a trade. And rightfully so. I would too. He wasnt the problem in Denver, and he shouldnt be treated as though he is.

Im as big of an Alphonso Smith fan as anyone. In fact, if you check the Ravens forum, I wanted us to take him at 26 from the beginning of the draft process. I really think he will be a good #2 CB in the league. But you just dont trade a top 10 (likely) pick for a #2 QB. You just dont. Ugh. You cant defend his decisions, they dont make any sense.

And you are right, they couldnt of fixed the defense in one draft. But they would of been a ******** better off with a high octane offense and a defense that they sunk a first/second round pick into.

BlindSite
08-11-2009, 06:48 PM
McDaniels was a good choice as a head coach to rebuild the franchise, and I think the front office was trying to do what philly way back when they hired Vermeil, pick up a young up and comer from a good pedigree and get him to run the show.

What they should've done was paired him with a veteran GM or veteran director of scouting turned GM, not given him free reign over everything.

When both hats are worn by the one guy it almost never works. When it does work usually it's a coach who's been a head coach for a number of years getting the GM spot as well through a firing or a retirement and a job offer.

A guy like McDaniels getting both, that makes the owners just as a culpable as mcdaniels.

DeathbyStat
08-11-2009, 10:13 PM
If the Broncos win more than six games I will be utterly dumbfounded

Brothgar
08-11-2009, 10:23 PM
Maybe just MAYBE McDanials knew exactly what he was doing when he traded the first round pick for Alphonso Smith. Maybe he didn't want to pay a top 5 pick which is why he traded the Bronco's pick instead of the Bears. Am I out of line here?

Brent
08-11-2009, 10:40 PM
can we wait a few months before we declare this the worst off-season ever. talk about your premature bitchiing.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
08-11-2009, 10:40 PM
McDaniels is just too young. He doesn't have enough experience to be the head coach of a team. When some of your players are older than you, you're definitely too young.

Thumper
08-11-2009, 10:49 PM
Maybe just MAYBE McDanials knew exactly what he was doing when he traded the first round pick for Alphonso Smith. Maybe he didn't want to pay a top 5 pick which is why he traded the Bronco's pick instead of the Bears. Am I out of line here?

Yeah but that is cheaper than the Bengals owner, you're going to trade for your potential top 10 pick for a guy who will most likely never be a #1 CB, when you could've had an elite talent just to save money? That is extremely cheap in IMO worse than just being stupid because being cheap does not win you any games as we see with the Bengals who's owner is so cheap he won't even hire a GM or fire Marvin Lewis because he doesn't want to swallow that contract. That is even worse than that IMO. You've just possibly sacrificed a face of your franchise, a franchise saver, may set your team back even further and you are now a collection of average just to save money? Horrible.

the decider13
08-11-2009, 11:02 PM
We get it Thumper, you hate mcdaniels and think the Broncos are a joke. Do you see any fans freaking out? No, because this doesn't even deserve it's own story. Marshall has been injured. And since when has the first preseason depth chart meant jack anyways. Are we gonna make threads for every single tiny problem in every teams depth chart? I doubt it.

Thumper
08-11-2009, 11:23 PM
While I do think Josh McDaniels is a joke, this isn't the only pre-season depth chart thread *looks at the "Colts bench Tony Ugoh" Thread*

Whats next is a thread about Todd Haley having Dwayne Bowe as third string WR which I also think is incredibly stupid!

the decider13
08-11-2009, 11:34 PM
Yes there was a thread about Tony Ugoh, but it wasn't titled "Jim Caldwell is a moron"

brat316
08-11-2009, 11:59 PM
McDaniels is just too young. He doesn't have enough experience to be the head coach of a team. When some of your players are older than you, you're definitely too young.

hmmm...tell that to Jon Gruden and his super bowl ring.

Timbathia
08-12-2009, 05:13 AM
McDaniels was quoted today as saying that the NFL mandated him to release a depth chart relative to the first preseason game. Since Marshall wasnt available due to injury, he didnt put him in as a starter.

Happy yet?

FlyingElvis
08-12-2009, 09:09 AM
Just to back up what Timbathia is saying:

"That is not our depth chart," McDaniels said. "We don't have any starters right now. We have competition everywhere. The league mandates that we put out a roster for who is going to start in the first preseason game, and Brandon has a personal situation that he is going to attend to and won't be able to make that first preseason game. (WR) Jabar Gaffney is going to start in his place. It is very simple. There is nothing other than that to that entire story."

pulled from CBSSports.com - find it yourself if you're that interested b/c I just C&P'd it off the fantasy page. lol

The Unseen
08-12-2009, 09:16 AM
Just to back up what Timbathia is saying:

"That is not our depth chart," McDaniels said. "We don't have any starters right now. We have competition everywhere. The league mandates that we put out a roster for who is going to start in the first preseason game, and Brandon has a personal situation that he is going to attend to and won't be able to make that first preseason game. (WR) Jabar Gaffney is going to start in his place. It is very simple. There is nothing other than that to that entire story."

pulled from CBSSports.com - find it yourself if you're that interested b/c I just C&P'd it off the fantasy page. lol

exactly. I can't believe people are actually pontificating about this. It's nothing.

sweetness34
08-12-2009, 10:48 AM
Thread fail. McDaniels may be a dumbass but he's not stupid enough to drop Marshall out of the starting lineup.

Brothgar
08-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Yeah but that is cheaper than the Bengals owner, you're going to trade for your potential top 10 pick for a guy who will most likely never be a #1 CB, when you could've had an elite talent just to save money? That is extremely cheap in IMO worse than just being stupid because being cheap does not win you any games as we see with the Bengals who's owner is so cheap he won't even hire a GM or fire Marvin Lewis because he doesn't want to swallow that contract. That is even worse than that IMO. You've just possibly sacrificed a face of your franchise, a franchise saver, may set your team back even further and you are now a collection of average just to save money? Horrible.

Well I wasn't really thinking that he was trying to save money more he was trying to save cap space to go after vets in the next off season DeMarcus Ware perhaps?

DenverDex
08-13-2009, 02:58 AM
But the offense wasnt the problem. The defense was. So why Bowlen wanted a more versatile offense is still a mysterious. Case in point, you had a stud QB, a stud WR, a servicable offensive line and a system that allowed for a solid running game with anyone at RB. The Broncos fell apart because of the defense. So why did the offense need to be re-tooled again?

And there is literally no way you can put a positive spin on the Cutler trade. All Cutler wanted to hear from McDaniels after the rumor they went after Cassell was "I wont be traded." And since McDaniels has such a gigantic ego that he couldnt even say that, Cutler demanded a trade. And rightfully so. I would too. He wasnt the problem in Denver, and he shouldnt be treated as though he is.

Im as big of an Alphonso Smith fan as anyone. In fact, if you check the Ravens forum, I wanted us to take him at 26 from the beginning of the draft process. I really think he will be a good #2 CB in the league. But you just dont trade a top 10 (likely) pick for a #2 QB. You just dont. Ugh. You cant defend his decisions, they dont make any sense.

And you are right, they couldnt of fixed the defense in one draft. But they would of been a ******** better off with a high octane offense and a defense that they sunk a first/second round pick into.

I'd just like to kindly remind everyone that thought our offense was amazing, that we were only 16th in scoring. We could move the ball between the 20 yard lines all day but the red zone was a different story. So yes, while our defense and our ST's were the main issues, it isn't like our offense doesn't have any room for improvement. As great as our offense was last year, it'd be nice if we were top 5 in scoring.

Anyway, this offense is still going to be explosive even with Orton and we should be able to move the ball consistently. There won't be the "OMG did you see that throw" type of plays, but no one can legitimately argue that our offense can't be better than 16th in scoring this year with the talent we have.

Our offensive line is top 5.
Royal, Gaffney and Stokley all can get the job done as starters in the NFL. If Marshall gets past his court date with a not guilty verdict and stays healthy, we'll be that much better.

Our TE's are solid.
Our running backs should be good with the potential to be great.

Hillis is the most underrated player right now on our team. He can do so many things in this system.

People that think this team is going to be a 4 win or less are going to be disappointed. There is no way our defense can be as bad as it was last year. Its impossible. Removing Slowik pretty much guarantees that. We will field a competitive secondary, and we have two capable ILBS. Our OLB/D-Line are either unproven or unimpressive. So while it is possible we might still suck on defense, I'd be willing to bet we'll be much better than the defense we put out last year. - Which is actually one of the worst defenses I've ever seen on a NFL field purely because of the scheme.

Gay Ork Wang
08-13-2009, 04:23 AM
What makes you think that you have improved on offense by that much that you will be better than 16th in scoring? Losing Cutler is an extremely big hit

Jimmy
08-13-2009, 08:34 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iyKmb3JCm0fvfQCeipW7_NNFtqUwD9A1SVQ80

CC.SD
08-13-2009, 09:46 AM
I'd just like to kindly remind everyone that thought our offense was amazing, that we were only 16th in scoring. We could move the ball between the 20 yard lines all day but the red zone was a different story. So yes, while our defense and our ST's were the main issues, it isn't like our offense doesn't have any room for improvement. As great as our offense was last year, it'd be nice if we were top 5 in scoring.

Anyway, this offense is still going to be explosive even with Orton and we should be able to move the ball consistently. There won't be the "OMG did you see that throw" type of plays, but no one can legitimately argue that our offense can't be better than 16th in scoring this year with the talent we have.

Our offensive line is top 5.
Royal, Gaffney and Stokley all can get the job done as starters in the NFL. If Marshall gets past his court date with a not guilty verdict and stays healthy, we'll be that much better.

Our TE's are solid.
Our running backs should be good with the potential to be great.

Hillis is the most underrated player right now on our team. He can do so many things in this system.

People that think this team is going to be a 4 win or less are going to be disappointed. There is no way our defense can be as bad as it was last year. Its impossible. Removing Slowik pretty much guarantees that. We will field a competitive secondary, and we have two capable ILBS. Our OLB/D-Line are either unproven or unimpressive. So while it is possible we might still suck on defense, I'd be willing to bet we'll be much better than the defense we put out last year. - Which is actually one of the worst defenses I've ever seen on a NFL field purely because of the scheme.

There is no floor for a defense's suckitude when "zero pass rush" enters the equation. The 3-4 transition isn't easy.

hockey619
08-13-2009, 10:26 AM
People have been way too hard on McDaniels so far. let him blow some games or something then rip him a new one but until then give him a chance.

He lost them a pro bowl star qb....whos a total dbag and whiney child and very arrogant for a guy whos played well but not otherworldly. i dont like cutler as a person as you can tell and i dont think his loss is as big a deal as most will make it out to be. McD's system is simpler and if Orton can continue to play his mediocre game this might work out. Orton will have better weapons in Denver than he had in Chicago and a friendly system so its not totally unlikely for him to do better.

The D was awful last year, so changing to a different D isnt likely to make it worse. Theyve already proven that theyre garbage in a 4-3 let them prove it in a 3-4 before you call them out on it.

I think this team can do 8-8 at least, theres more potential there than some are thinking.

DenverDex
08-13-2009, 11:32 AM
What makes you think that you have improved on offense by that much that you will be better than 16th in scoring? Losing Cutler is an extremely big hit

Many things actually. Better special teams, a better running game(we've added the talent here), better defense, better play calling, and better decision making in the red zone.

The Bears actually managed to be 14th in scoring last year. They had a better defense and special teams than Denver did but those two units certainly didn't carry the whole team.

Orton played pretty well in certain stretches of the season with worse talent and offensive coaching than he's going to have in Denver. Cutler is a good QB with incredible potential, but like I said when you're 16th in scoring but can move the ball down the field there is potential for being a lot lot better.

There is no floor for a defense's suckitude when "zero pass rush" enters the equation. The 3-4 transition isn't easy.



Also, yes I do realize that transitioning to a 3-4 isn't something that is going to happen over night. But those that actually think Denver would have been a whole lot better staying in what Slowik's scheme had the defense doing over taking this opportunity to switch to a 3-4 are delusional. Slowik's scheme was scared football. Playing corners 10 yards off of receivers and safties 30 yards down the field was the definition of "I'm scared and I SUCK at coaching."

I don't expect us to be playoff contenders this year, but those that think we're only going to win 4 games really don't understand what Denver has in talent on O, and the amount of improvement we can make on STs and Defense based off of a few things.

Gay Ork Wang
08-13-2009, 11:37 AM
yes they didnt. Forte did. by a lot.

YAYareaRB
08-13-2009, 11:52 AM
We'll welcome Brandon Marshall with arms wide open

Brothgar
08-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Many things actually. Better special teams, a better running game(we've added the talent here), better defense, better play calling, and better decision making in the red zone.

The Bears actually managed to be 14th in scoring last year. They had a better defense and special teams than Denver did but those two units certainly didn't carry the whole team.

Orton played pretty well in certain stretches of the season with worse talent and offensive coaching than he's going to have in Denver. Cutler is a good QB with incredible potential, but like I said when you're 16th in scoring but can move the ball down the field there is potential for being a lot lot better.





Also, yes I do realize that transitioning to a 3-4 isn't something that is going to happen over night. But those that actually think Denver would have been a whole lot better staying in what Slowik's scheme had the defense doing over taking this opportunity to switch to a 3-4 are delusional. Slowik's scheme was scared football. Playing corners 10 yards off of receivers and safties 30 yards down the field was the definition of "I'm scared and I SUCK at coaching."

I don't expect us to be playoff contenders this year, but those that think we're only going to win 4 games really don't understand what Denver has in talent on O, and the amount of improvement we can make on STs and Defense based off of a few things.

Yes but when did you guys get anything on defense? I see you signed one guy over 300 lbs to be your nose tackle a second one is on injured reserve already. If you think you are going to get a ton of points when you are soft in the middle. I think most teams will run all over that. Also Shanahan wasn't a bad play caller did he make his mistakes sure but he was also a decent offensive playcaller.

Gay Ork Wang
08-13-2009, 12:26 PM
idk how u can call an improvement on ST before u even see them play.

Timbathia
08-13-2009, 04:09 PM
idk how u can call an improvement on ST before u even see them play.

for starters McDaniels actually gets them to practice special teams in training camp. Nice upgrade from shanahan.

Bucs_Rule
08-13-2009, 06:43 PM
There is no floor for a defense's suckitude when "zero pass rush" enters the equation. The 3-4 transition isn't easy.

According to Football Outsiders they had the second worst defense since they started recording, about 20 years ago I think. Since rules have made defense much harder recently it is very likely their were still second worst of all time. In case your wondering Detroit was the worst.

When your that bad its very hard to sustain that level of ineptitude.

Your right, the transition to 3-4 is very hard. In Denver's case the transition to a competent 4-3 would be just as challenging.

CC.SD
08-13-2009, 06:47 PM
According to Football Outsiders they had the second worst defense since they started recording, about 20 years ago I think. Since rules have made defense much harder recently it is very likely their were still second worst of all time. In case your wondering Detroit was the worst.

When your that bad its very hard to sustain that level of ineptitude.

Your right, the transition to 3-4 is very hard. In Denver's case the transition to a competent 4-3 would be just as challenging.

Hm I don't know about that. At least sticking with a 4-3 would would avoid the inevitable learning curve that comes with changing out your base front, and they could use every bit of advantage they can get. Breaking in a new QB is hard enough if you ask me.

Then again, they may as well get as many growing pains out of the way this year as they can if they are really set on running a 4-3. I would assume that's their logic.

Diehard
08-13-2009, 07:05 PM
Then again, they may as well get as many growing pains out of the way this year as they can if they are really set on running a 4-3. I would assume that's their logic.

I think there's some truth to that... along with McDaniels' desire to put his stamp on things.

The other thing is that the defense was utterly demoralized last year. One of the defensive leaders (DJ iirc) said something about feeling like second-class citizens on the team. Sometimes, when you've got that kind of ugly experience, change can be good.

DenverDex
08-13-2009, 08:20 PM
I got neg repped for expressing an opinion, how amusing ^_^

DenverDex
08-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Yes but when did you guys get anything on defense? I see you signed one guy over 300 lbs to be your nose tackle a second one is on injured reserve already. If you think you are going to get a ton of points when you are soft in the middle. I think most teams will run all over that. Also Shanahan wasn't a bad play caller did he make his mistakes sure but he was also a decent offensive playcaller.

Jeremy Bates called the plays last year. He was a decent play caller, but something needed to be fixed in the red zone. I can't blame it entirely on play calling as I do realize our RB situation sucked for more than half the season, but it could have been better.

Even though our D-Line might be inexperienced and might suck doesn't mean our defense will suck as bad as it did last year =)

DenverDex
08-13-2009, 08:25 PM
idk how u can call an improvement on ST before u even see them play.

Same could be said about the every team in the NFL couldn't it?

We don't really know what improvements a team will make until games are played do we? Even so my point is that it is possible that our special teams, defense and offense can play better this year. Will it happen? we'll see.

Gay Ork Wang
08-14-2009, 03:42 AM
Same could be said about the every team in the NFL couldn't it?

We don't really know what improvements a team will make until games are played do we? Even so my point is that it is possible that our special teams, defense and offense can play better this year. Will it happen? we'll see.
well offenses and defense you can at least somehow look at it from talent wise. Most of the guys on ST are rookies or backup players that change every year, and most of the rookies havent played that much of ST. So no, its not the same

Marino13
08-14-2009, 08:51 AM
I think McDaniels is getting way too much hate. Yeah the Cutler thing was poorly handled, BUT Cutler whined and complained and then when they tried to make peace with him he wouldn't listen. That's when they decided to trade Cutler and he (Cutler) said he never wanted to be traded.

I thought he did a solid job signing veteran defenders that should help the team. Dawkins, Goodman, Hill, and Smith should help the secondary a lot. Andra Davis isn't a stud by any means, but he's been a productive LB in the 3-4 for a couple years. Yeah the defense will probably struggle A LOT this year because the front 7 is going through a drastic philosphy change from smaller quick LBs, to big thumpers.

Only thing I have to question is not really addressing the NT more than anything. As of right now, they'll be relying on Ronald Fields (who did not play well for the 9ers) and Chris Baker (a UDFA) as their primary NTs.

Brothgar
08-14-2009, 09:06 AM
Same could be said about the every team in the NFL couldn't it?

We don't really know what improvements a team will make until games are played do we? Even so my point is that it is possible that our special teams, defense and offense can play better this year. Will it happen? we'll see.

That has to be the worst argument I've ever heard on this forum. Why join a forum specially one like this if you're not willing to prognosticate and back up your prognostication. You said the D will be better. How? You said the ST was improved. How? You are saying that Josh McDanials + Kyle Orten + Knoshon Moreno => Shanahan and Cutler? Explain please.

DenverDex
08-14-2009, 12:11 PM
That has to be the worst argument I've ever heard on this forum. Why join a forum specially one like this if you're not willing to prognosticate and back up your prognostication. You said the D will be better. How? You said the ST was improved. How? You are saying that Josh McDanials + Kyle Orten + Knoshon Moreno => Shanahan and Cutler? Explain please.

If you go back and read my posts, I have explained why I think we can be better than 16th in scoring, and why our defense might not suck as bad this year.

As far as the special teams go, we weren't really that great in any area. Brett Kern and Matt Prater both have big legs but could be a bit more consistent. Last year was the first full year by both of these players, going into their second year I expect more consistency. One of the reasons why our coverage units weren't that great last year is because we were so inconsistent on the players we had playing special teams. If we get a bit more lucky with injuries, and don't sign a new player every week that's going to be playing special teams we might actually be able to improve.

The argument you quoted was merely to point out how bad of an argument that was against why our ST's could be better. At this point no one has seen the team play a regular season game, so yeah its a poor argument to make and thats kind what I was trying to say. When someone says "Oh you well act like they're going to be good when they haven't played a game yet". I could say the exact same thing in "Oh well you act like this specific team or unit is going to suck when they haven't even played yet".

If you really want my reasoning on why our offense can still be good this year, you can go back and read my previous posts. In fact I'm not really saying Orton & McDaniels will be equal to or better than Cutler and Shanahan. I am however giving reasoning on why they might be able to lead a good offense. It is reasonable to say that Orton, McDaniels and the offense can be good without saying they were as good as last years offense in the passing game. It is also reasonable to say we might be better than 16th in overall scoring if we get better play from our ST's, defense and running backs. Being less predictable and having a more balanced offense might also be better. What's so bad about that line of thinking?

If you're too lazy to go back and read why I think what I think here are some cliff notes:

What could happen to make us better than 16th in scoring

- Better/Healthy stable of running backs
- Better play calling by McDaniels in red zone
- Better overall starting field position
- More consistent field goal unit
- More defensive turnovers because of better scheme, and more talent in the secondary.
- Not having the worst defensive coordinator of all time coaching a "defense"

Scotty D
08-14-2009, 01:22 PM
What makes you think that you have improved on offense by that much that you will be better than 16th in scoring? Losing Cutler is an extremely big hit

They should have a running game this year though. Don't forget about Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris as some of the best young OTs out there. Scheffler is a really good pass catching TE and if Royal can build on his rookie season then watch out. I still like this offense.

Diehard
08-14-2009, 03:28 PM
They should have a running game this year though. Don't forget about Ryan Clady and Ryan Harris as some of the best young OTs out there. Scheffler is a really good pass catching TE and if Royal can build on his rookie season then watch out. I still like this offense.

QFT. Orton is surrounded by a very capable offense. The OL is solid, with a nice mix of youth and veteran experience. The passing game should be very versatile - a nice set of receivers to work with and the backs can all catch the ball pretty well. The addition of Moreno and Quinn via the draft certainly doesn't hurt the running game.

Now all we need is for Orton to hold up his end of the deal and show he can efficiently and effectively direct the attack.

Grizzlegom
08-15-2009, 08:48 AM
i just wanted to say, if people thought the broncos depth chart was messed up, go look at the chiefs where dwayne bowe and bobby engram are listed as third team receivers with Devard Darling and Terrance Copper as the starters and Mark Bradley and Amani Toomer also listed ahead of Bowe and Engram.

i think its pretty obvious that preseason depth charts mean next to nothing.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2009, 11:26 AM
This thread is awesome. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt my feelings as a fan. Waaahhhh McDaniels hurt Brandon Marshall's feelings, Moss' feelings and got Jay Cutler's panties so bunched up they broke his vagina.

Holy drama queens . . . yet no Broncos fans seem willing to say "holy **** we had a truckload of prima donna bitches on our squad" and good riddance.

The Cutler situation was a two way drama show that exposed Cutler as a wide receiver-esque crybaby and McDaniels as a green HC. None of the other things mentioned in the first post have any value.

A pre-preseason depth chart? Who the **** cares?

Damning his move from one D scheme to another when the Broncos clearly couldn't handle the 4-3 . . . genius.

Deeming the entire draft a failure before a single exhibition game? Hey man, pass the crystal ball - or at least tell me tomorrow night's winnig powerball numbers.

I don't give a **** if Cutler and Marshall are "Prima Donna bitches". When they're the 2 most talented players on the team, it's probably not a good idea to piss them off. Cutler was the best QB in the NFL 25 or under, and the only young WR that's better than Marshall is Calvin Johnson, off the top of my head. You don't piss those guys off, considering them, Royal and the OL were the only bright spots of last season. Now you're left with an OL that is pretty good(pretty good becomes "******* amazing" when adjusted for how bad Denver is). We don't know how they're gonna handle blocking for Orton. Blocking for Cutler made them look better than they were. They certainly weren't bad, but Cutler is an amazing sack dodger. It's every bit as amazing as his arm strength.

You're right, we sucked in the 4-3... but the 4-3 is what that entire defense was geared towards. I don't think there's a single returning front 7 player who is geared to a 3-4. Maybe DJ Williams if he's playing OLB. But other than that, the whole defense is clueless and nobody did anything to fix the middle of it. It's broken, and giving it a new paintjob won't do ****.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Many things actually. Better special teams, a better running game(we've added the talent here), better defense, better play calling, and better decision making in the red zone.

The Bears actually managed to be 14th in scoring last year. They had a better defense and special teams than Denver did but those two units certainly didn't carry the whole team.

Orton played pretty well in certain stretches of the season with worse talent and offensive coaching than he's going to have in Denver. Cutler is a good QB with incredible potential, but like I said when you're 16th in scoring but can move the ball down the field there is potential for being a lot lot better.





Also, yes I do realize that transitioning to a 3-4 isn't something that is going to happen over night. But those that actually think Denver would have been a whole lot better staying in what Slowik's scheme had the defense doing over taking this opportunity to switch to a 3-4 are delusional. Slowik's scheme was scared football. Playing corners 10 yards off of receivers and safties 30 yards down the field was the definition of "I'm scared and I SUCK at coaching."

I don't expect us to be playoff contenders this year, but those that think we're only going to win 4 games really don't understand what Denver has in talent on O, and the amount of improvement we can make on STs and Defense based off of a few things.

We should have been top 5 in scoring this year coming up, but McDaniels ****** up by letting Cutler go. As ******** as McDaniels has been, Shanahan needed to go, his playcalling down there was awful, and our OL never could get any push in the running game. But we ran 32 dive probably 60% of the time because Shanahan never noticed. Cutler rollouts were a great weapon but were extremely underutilized down there. We just couldn't pound it in. Knowshon will hopefully be dangerous, but look at that, now we have an alcoholic ******* neckbeard instead of the best QB in the NFL 25 or under. :(

Bigburt63
08-17-2009, 11:46 AM
You're right, we sucked in the 4-3... but the 4-3 is what that entire defense was geared towards. I don't think there's a single returning front 7 player who is geared to a 3-4. Maybe DJ Williams if he's playing OLB. But other than that, the whole defense is clueless and nobody did anything to fix the middle of it. It's broken, and giving it a new paintjob won't do ****.

Switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 is hardly giving it a new paint job. It's more like taking it completely apart and building something new. The defense was bad last year, nobody disputes that. How is it switching defensive schemes is such a bad thing? So the crappy players from the 4-3 defense are still comfortable playing in the 4-3 and still playing crappy? Either way you have to bring in new personnel, and it is not a quick fix, so changing schemes is not the worst thing in the world to do. I will agree entirely that they should have gotten more stout at ILB and on the DL, but again, can't do everything in one year.

Nalej
08-17-2009, 11:49 AM
Well, they just traded for L. Smith (from the Pats) to add some depth and 3-4 experience to that line.

Jimmy
08-17-2009, 04:49 PM
***Breaking News***

Construction of the "Wall of offseason McStakes" is complete
http://thewall-usa.com/buttons/wallatnight.jpg

BaLLiN
08-17-2009, 05:12 PM
i understand trying to put players that fit what you want to do on your team, and it normally does get ugly, but hes making the team a laughingstock.

Jimmy
08-17-2009, 05:14 PM
i understand trying to put players that fit what you want to do on your team, and it normally does get ugly, but hes making the team a laughingstock.

I mean... I guess broncos fans dont have it too bad. We can't have a winning team, but at least we get round the clock comedy

cvv84
08-17-2009, 08:33 PM
BOMBSHELL ALERT coming out of Denver (http://twitter.com/jamiedukes/status/3372341106)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/17/bombshell-alert-issued-as-to-the-broncos/

FuzzyGopher
08-17-2009, 08:40 PM
BOMBSHELL ALERT coming out of Denver (http://twitter.com/jamiedukes/status/3372341106)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/17/bombshell-alert-issued-as-to-the-broncos/

Jamie Dukes is a doucher, so who knows what the news is. At this point with all the chaos that has gone on in Denver this off season, the only thing that would really shock me would be if McDaniels got canned.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2009, 08:56 PM
Switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 is hardly giving it a new paint job. It's more like taking it completely apart and building something new. The defense was bad last year, nobody disputes that. How is it switching defensive schemes is such a bad thing? So the crappy players from the 4-3 defense are still comfortable playing in the 4-3 and still playing crappy? Either way you have to bring in new personnel, and it is not a quick fix, so changing schemes is not the worst thing in the world to do. I will agree entirely that they should have gotten more stout at ILB and on the DL, but again, can't do everything in one year.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Not my best metaphor. What I meant was, largely the components of the defense(the players) haven't changed much, they're just being told to line up differently and perform different duties after the snap. Big change, but it won't help them tackle.

sweetness34
08-17-2009, 09:48 PM
Jamie Dukes is a doucher, so who knows what the news is. At this point with all the chaos that has gone on in Denver this off season, the only thing that would really shock me would be if McDaniels got canned.

It's supposedly about Marshall being traded or getting a new contract. Can't confirm it though.

Might explain why Brandon has been sitting out of camp.

Thumper
08-17-2009, 09:57 PM
It's supposedly about Marshall being traded or getting a new contract. Can't confirm it though.

Might explain why Brandon has been sitting out of camp.

My guess is traded because Josh McStakes (lol whoever made that up gets a thumbs up) is pretty hard headed from what I can tell. He probably said something like "Let him go, my system can make anyone produce." Plus Eddie Royal is supposedly looking really good so who knows, but my guess is a trade to a contender like the Ravens or Cowboys. The Ravens need a WR to help complete that offense because while Mason is still good, he is not a gamebreaker and he is 35. The Cowboys should never be counted out with Jerry as their owner, plus Roy Williams went down with a wrist injury and who better to replace TO than Baby TO? Plus Shanny might be coaching in Big D next year. If not a trade to one of them my next guess would be the Jets who need a #1 WR badly.

Timbathia
08-17-2009, 10:06 PM
According to the Denver post, Marshall's agent walked in this afternoon and asked for a contract extension now the trial was over with. Marshall was sitting out practice today. The Broncos apparently said they were still not willing to negotiate one, so McGuire re-asked for a trade. Broncos apparently said no to that as well.

Not sure where this is headed.

cvv84
08-17-2009, 10:08 PM
According to the Denver post, Marshall's agent walked in this afternoon and asked for a contract extension now the trial was over with. Marshall was sitting out practice today. The Broncos apparently said they were still not willing to negotiate one, so McGuire re-asked for a trade. Broncos apparently said no to that as well.

Not sure where this is headed.


Brandon Marshall and his agent met with Broncos coach Josh McDaniels on Monday, and reiterated that Marshall wants a new contract or to be traded.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/3374771091

Thumper
08-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Adam Schefter said there is a standoff in Denver earlier tonight. The story line I heard is the same as you did, they demand either a new deal or a new trade and then Marshall was no where to be found working out. He deserves the money.

EDIT: cvv beat me to it.

Timbathia
08-17-2009, 10:11 PM
There is rumor floating around on a Denver radio station that Marshall is going to sue the Broncos regarding his hip injury from last year (that he believes they failed to diagnose properly).

The other rumor from the same radio station regards Favre playing for the Broncos.

Bigburt63
08-17-2009, 10:15 PM
Yeah, I'm sorry. Not my best metaphor. What I meant was, largely the components of the defense(the players) haven't changed much, they're just being told to line up differently and perform different duties after the snap. Big change, but it won't help them tackle.

I agree that much of the personnel moves are questionable to say the least. A new front 7 was (is) needed, especially up front. I still would argue that it is not a one offseason project, but I would agree that they could have done MUCH more work in that area.

Thumper
08-17-2009, 10:49 PM
There is rumor floating around on a Denver radio station that Marshall is going to sue the Broncos regarding his hip injury from last year (that he believes they failed to diagnose properly).

The other rumor from the same radio station regards Favre playing for the Broncos.

Wow. #1 sounds likely but #2 sounds like a pipe dream.

cvv84
08-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Alot of smoke but no fire. False alarm...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/17/broncos-apologize-to-marshall-for-pr-faux-pas/

Thumper
08-17-2009, 11:02 PM
**** you Jamie Dukes, that is not a bombshell. I think that Josh McDaniels is a joke, but Jamie obviously genuinely hates both the Broncos and Josh and he blatantly shows it.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Pay that man. He deserves it as the best young wideout not named Calvin Johnson.

EDIT: Actually him and Fitz might be the same age. Obviously if they are, add Fitz to CJ's name.

S T R I N G
08-17-2009, 11:11 PM
Pay that man. He deserves it as the best young wideout not named Calvin Johnson.

EDIT: Actually him and Fitz might be the same age. Obviously if they are, add Fitz to CJ's name.

Don't forget my boy Greg Jennings. :D

Jimmy
08-17-2009, 11:56 PM
Josh McStakes (lol whoever made that up gets a thumbs up)

i always knew you loved me

CC.SD
08-18-2009, 12:38 AM
hahaha Jamie Dukes is so ******* terrible.