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VernonLawson89
08-21-2009, 12:15 PM
Andre Smith and Michael Crabtree.

who will sign last?

PalmerToCJ
08-21-2009, 01:00 PM
They are trying to make progress with Smith, I'm not sure on Crabtree.

I'm going to guess Smith signs first, at least I hope.

JFLO
08-21-2009, 01:48 PM
Read the poll wrong, I meant to vote for Crabtree...

Adam Schefter was on SC this morning saying that the two sides haven't talked in like a week or two...I doubt that has happened, but those two sides seem to be farther apart than the Cincy vs. Andre Smith debate.

Borat
08-21-2009, 02:00 PM
Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

BeerBaron
08-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I voted Smith. Crabtree is definitely more high profile and volatile, but I think he and his agent will eventually accept the still very good top 10 money the 49ers are offering and get him in there.

Smith on the other hand, has been totally low balled by the Bengals so unless they offer him more, I could see that one prolonging.

vikes_28
08-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I also said Crabtree. My guess is he enters the draft next year and ends up busting like Mike Williams.

Brent
08-21-2009, 02:33 PM
Read the poll wrong, I meant to vote for Crabtree...

Adam Schefter was on SC this morning saying that the two sides haven't talked in like a week or two...I doubt that has happened
according to Niners beat writer, Matt Maiocco, the Niners' chief negotiator has been on his cell phone non-stop the last three weeks, "who do you think he's talking to?"

JFLO
08-21-2009, 02:42 PM
according to Niners beat writer, Matt Maiocco, the Niners' chief negotiator has been on his cell phone non-stop the last three weeks, "who do you think he's talking to?"

Other free agent WR's agents?

Borat
08-21-2009, 02:47 PM
Other free agent WR's agents?

Nope. We already have too many WRs as it is.

TitanHope
08-21-2009, 02:58 PM
I'll go with Smith purely because Crabtree is on my NFLDCFF team. :D

drowe
08-21-2009, 03:36 PM
funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.

Crabtree think he should get more money than DHB, and the Bengals (probably) don't want to pay more than the insane contract DHB got for an out of shape RT.

Brent
08-21-2009, 04:58 PM
funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.
Al Davis knew what he was doing. You can't say taking DHB was a bad pick if the other guy isnt playing!

Splat
08-21-2009, 05:17 PM
I also said Crabtree. My guess is he enters the draft next year and ends up busting like Mike Williams.

I went with Crabs as well but would be shocked if he didn't sign atleast some time this season.

RaiderNation
08-21-2009, 05:34 PM
Al Davis knew what he was doing. You can't say taking DHB was a bad pick if the other guy isnt playing!

Exactly. I doubt Crabtree would sign with us the way he reacted when we drafted DHB(. IDK if Crabtree will sign though. Im 50/50 right now. Hopefully he doesnt so I can give some of my friends **** about how they wasted the 10th pick

themaninblack
08-21-2009, 08:15 PM
Smith on the other hand, has been totally low balled by the Bengals so unless they offer him more, I could see that one prolonging.

I haven't seen the figures so I won't speculate but I think has more to do with the Raiders giving DHB a ~20% increase over last year's 7th overall pick than anything. Parlay that with the notoriously frugal Mike Brown, and you have all the makings for a nice n long contract dispute.

BeerBaron
08-21-2009, 08:24 PM
I haven't seen the figures so I won't speculate but I think has more to do with the Raiders giving DHB a ~20% increase over last year's 7th overall pick than anything. Parlay that with the notoriously frugal Mike Brown, and you have all the makings for a nice n long contract dispute.

It's my understanding (from reading PFT anyway) that the Bengals offered Smith a reasonable increase over last years pick at his spot, but it was less than what DHB got a pick behind him. So you knew that wasn't going to fly.....

ninerfan
08-21-2009, 08:45 PM
Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

Same feelings here. Part of me wants him in camp NOW, but the other more spiteful part hopes he doesn't sign, re enters the draft and drops to the 2nd or 3rd, signs a low ball offer and busts.

The guy is either: A) a complete moron or B) represented by a complete moron in which case see A).

Its gonna be hard to love this douche when he gets in.

Brent
08-21-2009, 10:48 PM
he's going to have to tear up, to an extreme degree, to make us Niner fans forget.

themaninblack
08-22-2009, 12:16 AM
It's my understanding (from reading PFT anyway) that the Bengals offered Smith a reasonable increase over last years pick at his spot, but it was less than what DHB got a pick behind him. So you knew that wasn't going to fly.....

Yea, but what I'm saying is that DHB's contract had a higher increase than it "should" have been so it has kinda thrown the surrounding picks out of whack(especially in Andre's case as he's been "slotted" for some time). The Smith deal would have probably been done previously if the Raiders hadn't given him that much of a raise over last year's 7th pick. While I'll agree they need to just pay the man, this situation kinda displays how messed up the whole rookie contract "system" really is. The problem can also be attributed to the fact that Katie Blackburn is the one handling this whole process and is just absolutely clueless(and/or stubborn) as to how to get this deal done.

BeerBaron
08-22-2009, 12:23 AM
Yea, but what I'm saying is that DHB's contract had a higher increase than it "should" have been so it has kinda thrown the surrounding picks out of whack. The Smith deal would have probably been done previously if the Raiders hadn't given him that much of a raise over last year's 7th pick. While I'll agree they need to just pay the man, this situation kinda displays how messed up the whole rookie contract "system" really is. The problem can also be attributed to the fact that Katie Blackburn is the one handling this whole process and is just absolutely clueless as to how to get this deal done.

Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

VernonLawson89
08-22-2009, 12:31 AM
Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

Hope you're right about Crabtree. I'm starting to worry that he'll actually sit the season.

aNYtitan
08-22-2009, 12:34 AM
funny that both holdouts can be attributed to Darius Heyward-Bey.

Crabtree think he should get more money than DHB, and the Bengals (probably) don't want to pay more than the insane contract DHB got for an out of shape RT.

Unfortunately how are you planning to bargain with the agent. Given with how the signings work out, you make more then the 7th pick but less then the 5th pick. The Bengals can't argue their point on this one, cause no agent is going to agree to a deal that pays his employer less money then the person drafted after him.

Don't see Crabtree and the Niners getting done soon, they are far apart cause Crabtree is acting up already, asking for money that he doesn't deserve and just acting spoiled. He has to accept that he wasn't drafted at 7, that he wasn't the first wideout taken, that he will have to get a contract somewhere between the 9th and 11th pick. I don't see how sitting out a season will help increase his bargaining price.

themaninblack
08-22-2009, 12:55 AM
Well, the main matter is that neither Smith nor his agent is going to accept less money than DHB got, stupid deal or not.

Smith, or most any player for that matter, isn't going to take less money than a non-QB taken after him (and they'll argue like hell that they should get more money even if it is a QB....it usually doesn't work out though.)

And the agent could potentially lose a lot of future clients if his rivals tell their potential clients that this guy took less money than a guy drafted behind him.

Anywhos, that's why I think Smith could last longer than Crabtree, though Crabtree is more "high profile."

I honestly wouldn't be that surprised if it came over ESPN right now that he and the niners had struck a deal. His demands are far more unreasonable than Smith's, and if he realizes that, and realizes how much money he'll lose going back into the draft next year, he'll take the still top 10 money the niners are offering.

I agree with what you're saying as well as your point about Smith's holdout most likely being longer than Crabtree's if the Bengals continue to think they have any real leverage with this deal. I just don't think they even realize that though I may sympathize with the situation they have been put in due to the Raiders not following the "trend", so to speak.

EDIT: And are Smith's demands really that unreasonable given the circumstances? I don't really know what they are asking for so maybe you could shed some light on that? I haven't really seen any indicationo f this but then again I haven't really been able to follow it to my liking.

ninerfan
08-22-2009, 03:34 AM
Which player would be hurt more by a long hold out and potentially re entering next years draft?

For me both players have issues and missing 12 months of football is not going to improve their stock.

Suck it up, sign the deal and get to work proving your point boys

Rabscuttle
08-22-2009, 09:06 AM
I voted Crabtree. His agent and "advisor" have adopted a position not based on reality and his immature ass has bought it hook line and sinker. Factor that in with the fact that he plays a position that isn't known for rookie production along with the Niners having a full depth chart of receivers and an offense that doesn't feature its wideouts and you have the makings of a holdout that really doesn't impact the product on the field.

It is a pr problem that can be dealt with nicely if Josh Morgan makes a couple of nice touchdown catches early in the season and Vernon Davis building on his preseason.

Both of these guys will see their stock plummet if they hold out the season. Smith definitely has equal talent coming out next year and Crabtree has some competition that will have speed on him. Both will see their names taken off several teams' draft boards entirely for pulling stunts like sitting out a season. No way can I see either one of their agents being so foolish as to risk future clients coming on board by blowing it with high profile cases like these.

49ersfan_87
08-22-2009, 10:19 AM
Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

Hating his guts? I'm mildly annoyed, but i don't hate his guts. It's just a rookie holdout. He's holding out because he feels he's a better talent than where he was picked. In principle, it's the same thing our very own Mike Singletary did when he was a player- twice. On the basis of this holdout, i haven't soured on him. I just think most of the hate (not talking about you) comes from what his cousin has said about him holding out the entire year.

My take on the Crabs situation- i want him here, practicing and making an impact and scoring TD's. He's not here, so i'm ready to roll with the guys we have. And when Crabtree signs, i'll welcome him in and the impact he will hopefully bring as a top 10 pick.

49ersfan_87
08-22-2009, 10:21 AM
he's going to have to tear up, to an extreme degree, to make us Niner fans forget.

Niner fans will forget about this the moment he scores his first TD.

ThePudge
08-22-2009, 11:37 AM
It could have been easily predicted that these would be the last two to sign. It's been Crabtree's attitude and his agent's feeling that he deserves more than a player picked three picks above him and given an excessive contract (Heyward-Bey of course.) Unfortunately he must realize that Mel Kiper's Big Board doesn't equal the amount you'll get paid or the amount you should get paid, it actually matters far more on where you are picked.

I want to strangle Andre Smith's agent, Alvin Keels. I'd also like to kick Katie Blackburn's ass. Keels, Smith's agent, wants a deal slightly more than the ridiculous deal Heyward-Bey received. Meanwhile, Blackburn is unwilling to have him paid that much. So this long, drawn-out process has been hurt primarily due to expected negotiation errors. I really don't believe Smith is the problem here and is having less of a say than Crabtree in his negotiations. Neither party is being particularly unreasonable, it's just that they are on different pages. I would expect this situation to work itself out before the Niners throw Top 7 money at Crabtree.

aNYtitan
08-22-2009, 12:09 PM
I voted Crabtree. His agent and "advisor" have adopted a position not based on reality and his immature ass has bought it hook line and sinker. Factor that in with the fact that he plays a position that isn't known for rookie production along with the Niners having a full depth chart of receivers and an offense that doesn't feature its wideouts and you have the makings of a holdout that really doesn't impact the product on the field.

It is a pr problem that can be dealt with nicely if Josh Morgan makes a couple of nice touchdown catches early in the season and Vernon Davis building on his preseason.

Both of these guys will see their stock plummet if they hold out the season. Smith definitely has equal talent coming out next year and Crabtree has some competition that will have speed on him. Both will see their names taken off several teams' draft boards entirely for pulling stunts like sitting out a season. No way can I see either one of their agents being so foolish as to risk future clients coming on board by blowing it with high profile cases like these.
If I can't sign them, trade them. I honestly think that Smith will sign, but if Crabtree holds to his word and says if I don't get a contract I will re-enter, the Niners should trade him to a team that needs a WR. You don't get any compensation if he doesn't sign, and it would be a wasted 1st round pick.

You could trade him to
The Browns for Edwards (two problematic receivers, that could benefit each others team)
The Giants (Steve Smith is their number one this season, and its not the pro bowler)
The Dolphins (who the hell are their starting receivers?)
and others (too lazy to think of them now)

Rabscuttle
08-22-2009, 12:46 PM
If I can't sign them, trade them. I honestly think that Smith will sign, but if Crabtree holds to his word and says if I don't get a contract I will re-enter, the Niners should trade him to a team that needs a WR. You don't get any compensation if he doesn't sign, and it would be a wasted 1st round pick.

You could trade him to
The Browns for Edwards (two problematic receivers, that could benefit each others team)
The Giants (Steve Smith is their number one this season, and its not the pro bowler)
The Dolphins (who the hell are their starting receivers?)
and others (too lazy to think of them now)

I've mentioned trading him as welll but there is the problem of finding another team that is willing to overpay him. The only way the Niners could hope to find a sucker to fall for that is to post a phony Youtube clip of Crabs running a 4.3 40 and hope the undead creature across the bay falls for it and ponies up big bucks for two rookie recievers in one year.

holt_bruce81
08-22-2009, 12:53 PM
Crabtree for sure. I don't see him signing anytime soon.

Does he really think he'll get more money if he re-enters the Draft Next year? I bet he does because he's got he brain of a ******** Monkey.

49ersfan_87
08-22-2009, 01:08 PM
If I can't sign them, trade them.

The trading deadline passed, i believe August 15th was the exact date.

Gay Ork Wang
08-22-2009, 01:36 PM
The trading deadline passed, i believe August 15th was the exact date.
trading deadline is after the 6th week isnt it

YAYareaRB
08-22-2009, 01:38 PM
trading deadline is after the 6th week isnt it

Yeah.. What the hell August 15th? lol

49ersfan_87
08-22-2009, 01:51 PM
trading deadline is after the 6th week isnt it

Sorry, it's the trading deadline for unsigned draft choices.

BamaFalcon59
08-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Crabtree won't be signing any time soon. Most likely after the very start of the season. Hope Smith gets done way before that.

I've soured on Crabtree so much. I've gone from super excited on draft day, to practically hating his guts. This whole saga has been very disturbing for me.

But you have Josh Morgan! :)

skinzzfan25
08-22-2009, 02:46 PM
Al Davis knew what he was doing. You can't say taking DHB was a bad pick if the other guy isnt playing!

That crafty bastard...

Crabs has soured on me though like others have said. I though he would take it in stride but he looks to be like another diva. Problem is, you can't be a diva and get away with it if your not playing/producing

scottyboy
08-22-2009, 02:48 PM
i think Smith signs first. Rumor has it the Bengals are sweetening the deal by offering some top notch Victoria's Secret bra's for Smith to wear. Athletic bras too, for game day.

PalmerToCJ
08-23-2009, 07:19 PM
Leaving Cinci. Not any closer on a deal for Andre Smith. Mike Brown says "the ship has sailed on the slotting system".

Mike Brown and family are idiots when it comes to running a business. That is all.

themaninblack
08-23-2009, 10:48 PM
Mike Brown and family are idiots when it comes to running a business. That is all.

No, they're pretty good at running a "business" but they can somehow do it without putting a very consistent product on the field. I've read that the Bengals are one of the more profitable franchises in the league.

wogitalia
08-24-2009, 12:29 AM
It's amazing that two of the top three guys with "character concerns" pre draft are the last to sign, surely if you are an agent for a guy like that you want to try and ease some of the concerns instead of creating extra pressure by furthering the claims.

Kudos to Harvin and the Vikes for being that third guy and making sure the contract was done asap.