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D-Unit
08-24-2009, 08:46 PM
My Crystal Ball says...

This is how the NFC East final standings will look like:

NY Giants 11-5 - NFC East Champions, First Round Bye
Dallas Cowboys 10-6 Wild Card
Philadelphia Eagles 7-9
Washington Redskins 6-10

Notes:

- The Giants will face some early to midseason tribulation, but will acquire a big piece in a trade (perhaps Anquan Boldin?) that will boost their playoff push. Injuries will hurt them early on, but will return in time to help them make a SB run. Bernard turns out to be a better player than Canty. Hakeem Nicks is ok, but is just another rookie still learning the game. Terrell Thomas leads the team in take aways (combination of FF, FR, INTs). Both Osi and Tuck finish with 13-15 sacks.

- Tony Romo will have his best statistical season and lead the team to their first playoff win...possibly more. A SB run is legit. Breakout seasons for Felix Jones, Martellus Bennett, and Sam Hurd. Roy Williams does everything as asked, but finishes with less than 1000 yards and 10 TDs. Jason Garrett turns into everyone's Hero, takes over as HC. Wade stays on as DC. Dallas leads the league in sacks. Terence Newman reaches All-Pro status. DeMarcus Ware is League MVP and breaks Strahan's sack record. *Thanks to Jason Peters*

- This is the year Westbrook starts to show signs of slowing down. He's no longer the #1 threat in the NFC East as he used to be. That title now belongs to Felix Jones. Youth shines in Philly, but is not enough to carry the team. Injury bug will bite hard. Michael Vick will start a game. They are the biggest disappointment in the division. They will be in last place for most of the year, then leapfrog Washington by a game to finish out the season. Shady McCoy is LEGIT.

- Washington's Defense is statistically best in the division according to Points Allowed, but the offense will have a ton of difficulty scoring. The Jason Campbell Project fails. Colt Brennan will get some time and win 1 or 2 games. Clinton Portis hobbles to the finish line. Washington will look to address QB, RB, and OL. Devin Thomas shows flashes of greatness. DeAngelo Hall returns to Pro Bowl form. Carlos Rogers returns to horrible form. Washington never drafts a player from Auburn again in the history of time. :D

Thumper
08-25-2009, 08:15 AM
Has 6 games in the NFL really made Felix Jones a bigger threat than Westbrook? No, not yet at least.

And that sounds REALLY optimistic for the Cowboys, superbowlz?!?!?

Geo
08-25-2009, 09:37 AM
Dallas Cowboys 10-6 Wild Card
Well well well, look who came around. ;)

Before, D-Unit was like

p3-eavMSBnk

D-Unit
08-25-2009, 12:34 PM
Well well well, look who came around. ;)

Before, D-Unit was like

p3-eavMSBnk
Can't see that here, but yes, I have come around. The draft pissed me off royally and I was in a bummy mood. I think it's going to hurt us more down the line than immediately now. Still think it was a crummy draft today. I mean, the biggest impact guy for us this year is a kicker imo. lol. Outside of Jason Williams, I can't say that I have much of a hope that any other player will be a starter one day.

But last year we were 9-7 and missed Romo for 3 games and Felix for pretty much the season. 10-6 isn't a far reach if everyone is healthy.

Plus actually, I have been harder on the Cowboys IN the Cowboys forum, but in other places on the forum, I have defended them.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34372

D-Unit
08-25-2009, 12:43 PM
BTW, this thread is meant for all of you guys to post your own Crystal Ball posts too. Not just mine. :p

PACKmanN
08-25-2009, 12:53 PM
lol D-Unit you better hope that o-line remains heathly and somehow can stop speed rushers off the edge.

I see the Giants domnating the entire NFC, 12-4/14-2. The second team will be the Eagles with a 11-5/10-6 record, the talent they have on the skill postions, and trenches, are too deep to not have success. The loses of their MLB and Johnson will lose them some games though. Next, the Cowboys. I believe they lose more then gained anything in an already weak front 7. A lot of questions remain on that offense so I see them going 8-9/7-9. The Redskins spent too much money on less players; the o-line isn't depenable to help out Portis and their passing attack can not dominate games, because of poor QB play. The defense is full of what ifs and not much depth behind the starters, so i predict a 6-10/4-12 season.

u8pp
08-25-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm an Eagles fan and I say
Giants 11-5
Eagles 10-6
Cowboys 8-8
Redskins 7-9

Once again the NFC East retains its status as the best division in football. Every game between division opponents is a tight-played two-way physical beatdown. Eagles and Giants play each other in the NFC Championship.

D-Unit
08-25-2009, 01:33 PM
lol D-Unit you better hope that o-line remains heathly and somehow can stop speed rushers off the edge.

I see the Giants domnating the entire NFC, 12-4/14-2. The second team will be the Eagles with a 11-5/10-6 record, the talent they have on the skill postions, and trenches, are too deep to not have success. The loses of their MLB and Johnson will lose them some games though. Next, the Cowboys. I believe they lose more then gained anything in an already weak front 7. A lot of questions remain on that offense so I see them going 8-9/7-9. The Redskins spent too much money on less players; the o-line isn't depenable to help out Portis and their passing attack can not dominate games, because of poor QB play. The defense is full of what ifs and not much depth behind the starters, so i predict a 6-10/4-12 season.
Well, I do have the Giants winning the NFC East, so we're not far off.

The Eagles have most of the world thinking they are as good as you're saying. I'm just not buying it. I know I'm going against the grain by saying what I said.

The Cowboys so called, "weak front 7" lead the league in sacks last year and we really focused on addressing our defense in FA and the draft. Questions on offense sure... but that doesn't mean those questions won't be answered. It's like your justification for them being bad is that there is an unknown factor. If there are questions, then how can you already answer it with a bad answer? If it's bad, then there's no question about it. LOL. Not gonna buy that argument with no basis. There is concern about OL depth and that scares me. DL depth scares me too. So they could very well have another disappointing season if health is an issue. Not gonna deny that.

The Redskins Defense is flat out sick. They will carry the team, but we agree on where they finish in the standings (last in the NFC East). Though, I really could see them finishing above the Eagles. Right now, the Eagles are feeling so good about themselves that they love smelling their own farts. Just watch it all unravel. I see a huge collapse for them this year. A lot of people are calling them the best team in the East. We'll see about that.

bigbluedefense
08-25-2009, 02:51 PM
I dunno if 10-6 gets you a bye week.

I like the predictions though. Im also starting to think Philly is due for a let down.

Oddly enough, I think the Giants are in for one too unless we see some dramatic change from our pass protection. Dallas is poised to win the division if they stay healthy bc their depth is doo doo.

D-Unit
08-25-2009, 03:35 PM
I dunno if 10-6 gets you a bye week.

I like the predictions though. Im also starting to think Philly is due for a let down.

Oddly enough, I think the Giants are in for one too unless we see some dramatic change from our pass protection. Dallas is poised to win the division if they stay healthy bc their depth is doo doo.
Yeah, you're probably right about that. I'll give you guys an extra win because I feel more strongly about you guys getting the bye week than finishing 10-6.

You're like the only non-Cowboys fan that I've heard say that Dallas is poised to win the Division. I love guys who have the balls to say things that are against the grain. ;)

... I mean Cowboys fans say that all over the place, but they are only homers when they say that. hahaha.

Thumper
08-25-2009, 07:58 PM
- Tony Romo will have his best statistical season and lead the team to their first playoff win...possibly more. A SB run is legit. Breakout seasons for Felix Jones, Martellus Bennett, and Sam Hurd. Roy Williams does everything as asked, but finishes with less than 1000 yards and 10 TDs. Jason Garrett turns into everyone's Hero, takes over as HC. Wade stays on as DC. Dallas leads the league in sacks. Terence Newman reaches All-Pro status. DeMarcus Ware is League MVP and breaks Strahan's sack record. *Thanks to Jason Peters*

Really? How has nobody even noted how homer this is?

-Tony Romo has a breakout year? WHAT? So he loses his best and favorite target and somehow he manages to improve? Sorry it doesn't work like that. All you have to do is look at what happens when TO leaves. Jeff Garcia never again topped 13 TD passes or 3000 yards without TO when with TO, Garcia was throwing for 32 touchdowns and 4000 yards. When he left Philly? Same. McNabb put up career numbers with TO and has yet to put up the numbers he put up with TO. So is Tony Romo going to magically break the pattern? I highly doubt that. Terrell Owens was Romo's favorite target, he targeted Owens on 115 throws. I find it incredible that anyone could actually believe that Romo will get better without TO, what is your logic? Your logic is "I'm a Cowboys Fan."

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=200932qDAL
Consider this: Of Romo's 450 passes last season, 115 of them -- 25.6 percent -- were intended for T.O. Sure, he caught only 57 of those balls, but that was more than enough for 952 yards, which was 27.6 percent of Romo's total yardage for the season, not to mention 34.6 percent of his touchdown passes. At an average of 16.7 yards per reception.

And now you replace him with Roy Williams? The same receiver who has only topped 65 receptions and 1000 yards once, both of which happened when he played in Mike Martz's system. And don't tell me he wasn't a target, he was thrown to 82 times and he caught on 44% of those. And he says he swallowed the playbook so that wasn't an issue according to him.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-11-52/The-unauthorized-Cowboys--OTA-Report.html?post=true
The Tony Romo to Roy Williams connection is still a work in progress. On one play, Williams ran a post route, but Romo threw a corner route about 15 yards away from him.

Also some reports have him throwing fits in the middle of the field because he gets open but Romo doesn’t see him. One scene that I recall is him jumping up and down and flailing his arms in the middle of the field while yelling at Romo that he was open. That sounds like a classic TO move not Roy Williams.

Oh and then there is this:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/williams-unhappy-with-dallas-offense/
Receiver Roy Williams went public with his displeasure about the Cowboys’ offense on Friday in a series of radio interviews.

He said the Cowboys had “the easiest offense to figure out” and that his former team, the 0-16 Detroit Lions, practiced harder than the Cowboys.

On ESPN-FM 103.3, Williams said the Cowboys need to move people around just to change things up.

“But, like I said, I’m a coachable wide receiver,” Williams said. “I’ll run what I’m supposed to run. And I’ll continue to have the cornerbacks ask me, ‘Why do they got you running this same thing over and over again.’ ”

Williams was acquired at the trade deadline, and it was thought he could help take pressure off Terrell Owens. But Williams, who had 19 catches for 198 yards and one touchdown, made no real impact.

At one point, Williams said of quarterback Tony Romo, “The gunslinger ain’t looking my way.” Williams also claimed learning the playbook wasn’t an issue.

“I’ve done swallowed that thing whole,” he said.

Williams had at least one idea how he could get more involved.

“We can start with like a slant or something,” Williams said on 103.3. “I feel like I’m a pretty good receiver. I can catch a slant and turn it into a 20-yard gain or something, but I didn’t run a slant this past season until the Philly game.”

And a superbowl run is legit? Yeah, OK.

Martellus Bennett and Felix Jones might break out but will Sam Hurd? Why would he break out? Its not like he is taking a larger role seeing as he was a #2 before and didn't do anything so why would he now?

Sorry Jason Garrett is an awful coordinator who wants to throw throw throw when he has 3 great backs and he really lacks creativity and is predictable as Roy Williams pointed out. And Jerry Jones was practically forcing him out the door this season when other teams were looking for a HC, Jerry Jones was recommending him left and right, but why would he recommend him if he is the future HC of the Cowboys? He was trying to get Garrett's contract off his hands because he figure out that he doesn't deserve it.

And then not only does Jason Garrett save the Cowboy's day, Wade Phillips is so overjoyed that he takes a downgrade! Wow, all is good in Cowboy land I guess...

What reasoning do you have to believe that Newman will be an all-pro? He really struggled last year and was not even a top 50 CB in the NFL and he is injury prone, not to mention he is in his thirties and on the decline.

How do you expect the Cowboys to make the playoffs when your offensive line is awful, your defense is the worst in the division, your receivers are the worst in the division, the only pass rusher you have is DeMarcus Ware and you lost your best receiver and offensive playmaker. Not to mention that your run defense aside from Ware isn't great. (please question me on these)

- This is the year Westbrook starts to show signs of slowing down. He's no longer the #1 threat in the NFC East as he used to be. That title now belongs to Felix Jones. Youth shines in Philly, but is not enough to carry the team. Injury bug will bite hard. Michael Vick will start a game. They are the biggest disappointment in the division. They will be in last place for most of the year, then leapfrog Washington by a game to finish out the season. Shady McCoy is LEGIT.

Ugh. How in the world does Felix Jones now have the title of best weapon in the NFC East? I'm not even sure if Westbrook is, but to say Felix Jones is is just crazy. Because essentially what you're telling me is that Felix Jones, the guy who caught a grand total of 2 passes and ran over some of the worst defenses in the NFL is the best weapon in the NFC East.

Yeah, when Felix Jones ran against a team in the top half of the NFL in run defense he averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Other than that he ran over the 28th, 26th, 21st and 16th rated run defenses. And he didn't do as fantastic as some would have you believe. Sure he had a great average but that was because he would bust a long run, if you take away all the big plays you have an above average back. If you take away his big runs, you still have him running at a respectable 4.5 average but it kind of brings his numbers back down to earth because 4 of his carries went for 148 yards.

D-Unit
08-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Really? How has nobody even noted how homer this is?

-Tony Romo has a breakout year? WHAT? So he loses his best and favorite target and somehow he manages to improve? Sorry it doesn't work like that. All you have to do is look at what happens when TO leaves. Jeff Garcia never again topped 13 TD passes or 3000 yards without TO when with TO, Garcia was throwing for 32 touchdowns and 4000 yards. When he left Philly? Same. McNabb put up career numbers with TO and has yet to put up the numbers he put up with TO. So is Tony Romo going to magically break the pattern? I highly doubt that. Terrell Owens was Romo's favorite target, he targeted Owens on 115 throws. I find it incredible that anyone could actually believe that Romo will get better without TO, what is your logic? Your logic is "I'm a Cowboys Fan."

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=200932qDAL


And now you replace him with Roy Williams? The same receiver who has only topped 65 receptions and 1000 yards once, both of which happened when he played in Mike Martz's system. And don't tell me he wasn't a target, he was thrown to 82 times and he caught on 44% of those. And he says he swallowed the playbook so that wasn't an issue according to him.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-11-52/The-unauthorized-Cowboys--OTA-Report.html?post=true


Also some reports have him throwing fits in the middle of the field because he gets open but Romo doesn’t see him. One scene that I recall is him jumping up and down and flailing his arms in the middle of the field while yelling at Romo that he was open. That sounds like a classic TO move not Roy Williams.

Oh and then there is this:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/williams-unhappy-with-dallas-offense/


And a superbowl run is legit? Yeah, OK.

Martellus Bennett and Felix Jones might break out but will Sam Hurd? Why would he break out? Its not like he is taking a larger role seeing as he was a #2 before and didn't do anything so why would he now?

Sorry Jason Garrett is an awful coordinator who wants to throw throw throw when he has 3 great backs and he really lacks creativity and is predictable as Roy Williams pointed out. And Jerry Jones was practically forcing him out the door this season when other teams were looking for a HC, Jerry Jones was recommending him left and right, but why would he recommend him if he is the future HC of the Cowboys? He was trying to get Garrett's contract off his hands because he figure out that he doesn't deserve it.

And then not only does Jason Garrett save the Cowboy's day, Wade Phillips is so overjoyed that he takes a downgrade! Wow, all is good in Cowboy land I guess...

What reasoning do you have to believe that Newman will be an all-pro? He really struggled last year and was not even a top 50 CB in the NFL and he is injury prone, not to mention he is in his thirties and on the decline.

How do you expect the Cowboys to make the playoffs when your offensive line is awful, your defense is the worst in the division, your receivers are the worst in the division, the only pass rusher you have is DeMarcus Ware and you lost your best receiver and offensive playmaker. Not to mention that your run defense aside from Ware isn't great. (please question me on these)



Ugh. How in the world does Felix Jones now have the title of best weapon in the NFC East? I'm not even sure if Westbrook is, but to say Felix Jones is is just crazy. Because essentially what you're telling me is that Felix Jones, the guy who caught a grand total of 2 passes and ran over some of the worst defenses in the NFL is the best weapon in the NFC East.

Yeah, when Felix Jones ran against a team in the top half of the NFL in run defense he averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Other than that he ran over the 28th, 26th, 21st and 16th rated run defenses. And he didn't do as fantastic as some would have you believe. Sure he had a great average but that was because he would bust a long run, if you take away all the big plays you have an above average back. If you take away his big runs, you still have him running at a respectable 4.5 average but it kind of brings his numbers back down to earth because 4 of his carries went for 148 yards.
Several things wrong with your post.

1) Saying the loss of TO will hurt because it hurt everytime he left teams in the past is a completely irrelevant point. Those teams relied on TO too much because he was the only weapon. Our problem was the opposite. We relied on TO too much and neglected our other weapons. There is plenty of options for Romo to go to now that TO is gone. Dallas is not left with an empty basket like Philly and San Fran were when TO left.


2) You can criticize Roy. As I pointed out, he'll finish the year with less than 1000 yards and 10 TDs. Thereby, NOT technically filling TOs shoes. So I have no argument there. Just listen to me when I say he won't be used and targeted the same way TO was.

3) Your links about Roy are outdated. ...and yes, June 9th, the beginning of TC is outdated. Roy and Romo have had many a good practice since.

4) Sam Hurd... breakout year. Not saying he'll have great stats or anything, he'll just be an impact player, unlike what he's been in the past. I know his past doesn't indicate that he'll do it (like you're trying to use as justification). That's the reason why I have him as a breakout player, duh.

5) Jason Garrett has taken a large burden upon his shoulders to repair his reputation and we've already seen some major adjustments being made. You'll see. I just have a feeling it's going to work out.

6) Newman did not in fact "really struggle" last year. He had a down year according to his own standards, but his standards are elite level. He also was dealing with injuries and he looks like he's now in the best shape of his life. This one is a bit homeristic, but I've seen proof of how good he can be and he was always borderline All-Pro.

7) Our OL depth looks awful, but to say our starting 5 is awful is just hatin'.

8) Our defense is the worst in the division? Let's see how this plays out before you give them that label. Last year, we lead the league in sacks. Expect more of that pressure in the backfield. I'm just loving how terrible Jason Peters has looked so far. Demarcus Ware says... Yummmm....

9) You can criticize Felix Jones now. Please continue to do so. He's going to overtake Westbrook as the most dynamic playmaking threat in the division this year. Yeah... That's what I'm saying.

These points I'm making are bold. No going around that. I'm not denying that it defies logic. You'll just have to watch it unfold. Keep giving me fodder. Either you or me will be eating a lot of crow. haha.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2009, 10:54 AM
i love me some bold predictions :)

D-Unit
08-26-2009, 12:35 PM
i love me some bold predictions :)
Yes, and let's see more! :) What do you guys think about this upcoming season?

Geo
08-26-2009, 12:40 PM
For those with signatures turned off and can't see the link: Outlook on the 2009 NFL season (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34841)

D-Unit
08-26-2009, 01:09 PM
For those with signatures turned off and can't see the link: Outlook on the 2009 NFL season (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34841)
Giants NOT in the playoffs.... You ARE bold. :)

Love the guts to call it now.

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 05:03 PM
Really? How has nobody even noted how homer this is?

-Tony Romo has a breakout year? WHAT? So he loses his best and favorite target and somehow he manages to improve? Sorry it doesn't work like that. All you have to do is look at what happens when TO leaves. Jeff Garcia never again topped 13 TD passes or 3000 yards without TO when with TO, Garcia was throwing for 32 touchdowns and 4000 yards. When he left Philly? Same. McNabb put up career numbers with TO and has yet to put up the numbers he put up with TO. So is Tony Romo going to magically break the pattern? I highly doubt that. Terrell Owens was Romo's favorite target, he targeted Owens on 115 throws. I find it incredible that anyone could actually believe that Romo will get better without TO, what is your logic? Your logic is "I'm a Cowboys Fan."

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football/ffl/story?page=200932qDAL


And now you replace him with Roy Williams? The same receiver who has only topped 65 receptions and 1000 yards once, both of which happened when he played in Mike Martz's system. And don't tell me he wasn't a target, he was thrown to 82 times and he caught on 44% of those. And he says he swallowed the playbook so that wasn't an issue according to him.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0-11-52/The-unauthorized-Cowboys--OTA-Report.html?post=true


Also some reports have him throwing fits in the middle of the field because he gets open but Romo doesn’t see him. One scene that I recall is him jumping up and down and flailing his arms in the middle of the field while yelling at Romo that he was open. That sounds like a classic TO move not Roy Williams.

Oh and then there is this:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/williams-unhappy-with-dallas-offense/


And a superbowl run is legit? Yeah, OK.

Martellus Bennett and Felix Jones might break out but will Sam Hurd? Why would he break out? Its not like he is taking a larger role seeing as he was a #2 before and didn't do anything so why would he now?

Sorry Jason Garrett is an awful coordinator who wants to throw throw throw when he has 3 great backs and he really lacks creativity and is predictable as Roy Williams pointed out. And Jerry Jones was practically forcing him out the door this season when other teams were looking for a HC, Jerry Jones was recommending him left and right, but why would he recommend him if he is the future HC of the Cowboys? He was trying to get Garrett's contract off his hands because he figure out that he doesn't deserve it.

And then not only does Jason Garrett save the Cowboy's day, Wade Phillips is so overjoyed that he takes a downgrade! Wow, all is good in Cowboy land I guess...

What reasoning do you have to believe that Newman will be an all-pro? He really struggled last year and was not even a top 50 CB in the NFL and he is injury prone, not to mention he is in his thirties and on the decline.

How do you expect the Cowboys to make the playoffs when your offensive line is awful, your defense is the worst in the division, your receivers are the worst in the division, the only pass rusher you have is DeMarcus Ware and you lost your best receiver and offensive playmaker. Not to mention that your run defense aside from Ware isn't great. (please question me on these)



Ugh. How in the world does Felix Jones now have the title of best weapon in the NFC East? I'm not even sure if Westbrook is, but to say Felix Jones is is just crazy. Because essentially what you're telling me is that Felix Jones, the guy who caught a grand total of 2 passes and ran over some of the worst defenses in the NFL is the best weapon in the NFC East.

Yeah, when Felix Jones ran against a team in the top half of the NFL in run defense he averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Other than that he ran over the 28th, 26th, 21st and 16th rated run defenses. And he didn't do as fantastic as some would have you believe. Sure he had a great average but that was because he would bust a long run, if you take away all the big plays you have an above average back. If you take away his big runs, you still have him running at a respectable 4.5 average but it kind of brings his numbers back down to earth because 4 of his carries went for 148 yards.

Ummm....

I'm an Eagles fan, and D-Init and I have butted heads it seems recently, but this is laughable.

Not anywhere that I saw (got tired of reading about 3/4 of the way through) did you mention Jason Witten. Jason Witten, you know, the #1 TE in the whole NFL right now?

Now Felix may not be wuite what D-Unit is billing him up to be, (I don't know, I haven't seen enough of him) but I have seen enough of him to know that he is a dangerous weapon who will make plays, and you can't just tazke away his big plays when you are in arguments like this, he did what he did, and if you take away any of his results it makes your results useless. Sorry, just the way it is.

Martellus Bennett scares me. For real. He will step up and show some great performances if the coaching staff allows him the chance, which they should.

As for the WRs that D-Unit mentioned, I'm not really sure where Roy stands, but without any statistical information, I feel like he won't be a big factor. Won't flop, but won't have the impact that many Cowboy fans hope. Just a gut feeling.

Sam Hurd has been supposed to break out for 2 years now. Miles Austin too for a while I heard. I have one of those gut feelings that the team is getting a little too high on their backup WRs in recent years.

As for Romo having a career year, I can't see it. He will put up solid numbers statistically, if only because of the playcalling, but despite the Cowboys fans statement that losign TO won't hurt them. I got news for them... it will, maybe not so much because you have good receiving options elsewhere, particularly in Witten, but it will impact the team greatly. It has happened everywhere else when he is left, so don't expect much different here.

I personally love the Cowboys three headed attack. Barber is one of my favorite backs in the league, and Felix Jones has incredible talent, no doubt about it. Tashard Choice is also a great RB. On many teams, he would at least be a #2 RB, if not seeing significant action in a 2 back system. I think the Cowboys offense would benefit greatly if they dedicate more offensive playcalling to running the ball. It not only takes advantage of the skill players at RB, but it plays into the advatages of the O-line and with two TEs who are good blockers, it is an added bonus. Will Garrett make the switch to a more run-heavy attack? I don't think so, which leads me to my next point.

The O-line has some major concerns, particularly when it comes to health and when it comes to pass protection. They are a great group of run blockers, but pass pro is not what they are best at, and overall, it is a major weakness in that line. I think Garret can minimize the effect of this weakness with more run plays, but once again, I don't think that is a big issue.

Dallas front 7 is a minor issue. DeMarcus Ware is a beast and always will be, and as a result, gets a lot of attention and can help mask some weaknesses in the front 7. As it was last year, that front 7 had issues against the run, and as much as I love Jay Ratliff, he is a small part of that. Ratliff himself is good against the run, he has quicknees to compensate for his size, but for some reason, the coaching staff doesn't seem confident in his run stopping abilities because other defenders are brought inside when many instances it isn't needed, and that results in holes in the running game elsewhere. There are some unproven/new guys there as well, it is something to watch.

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Several things wrong with your post.

1) Saying the loss of TO will hurt because it hurt everytime he left teams in the past is a completely irrelevant point. Those teams relied on TO too much because he was the only weapon. Our problem was the opposite. We relied on TO too much and neglected our other weapons. There is plenty of options for Romo to go to now that TO is gone. Dallas is not left with an empty basket like Philly and San Fran were when TO left.


2) You can criticize Roy. As I pointed out, he'll finish the year with less than 1000 yards and 10 TDs. Thereby, NOT technically filling TOs shoes. So I have no argument there. Just listen to me when I say he won't be used and targeted the same way TO was.

3) Your links about Roy are outdated. ...and yes, June 9th, the beginning of TC is outdated. Roy and Romo have had many a good practice since.

4) Sam Hurd... breakout year. Not saying he'll have great stats or anything, he'll just be an impact player, unlike what he's been in the past. I know his past doesn't indicate that he'll do it (like you're trying to use as justification). That's the reason why I have him as a breakout player, duh.

5) Jason Garrett has taken a large burden upon his shoulders to repair his reputation and we've already seen some major adjustments being made. You'll see. I just have a feeling it's going to work out.

6) Newman did not in fact "really struggle" last year. He had a down year according to his own standards, but his standards are elite level. He also was dealing with injuries and he looks like he's now in the best shape of his life. This one is a bit homeristic, but I've seen proof of how good he can be and he was always borderline All-Pro.

7) Our OL depth looks awful, but to say our starting 5 is awful is just hatin'.

8) Our defense is the worst in the division? Let's see how this plays out before you give them that label. Last year, we lead the league in sacks. Expect more of that pressure in the backfield. I'm just loving how terrible Jason Peters has looked so far. Demarcus Ware says... Yummmm....

9) You can criticize Felix Jones now. Please continue to do so. He's going to overtake Westbrook as the most dynamic playmaking threat in the division this year. Yeah... That's what I'm saying.

These points I'm making are bold. No going around that. I'm not denying that it defies logic. You'll just have to watch it unfold. Keep giving me fodder. Either you or me will be eating a lot of crow. haha.

No major issues with this except for a few minor things...

As it stands now, I do think the Cowboys overall defense is the worst in the division. Now "worst" here still probably means top 12 or so in the NFL, if not more, but i believe the Giants and Redskins defenses will be very good, if not dominant, and the Eagles have a great defense as well. The Cowboys are hurt by the run game, that is my big thing here.

Also, Jason Peters has played maybe, maybe 20 snaps on the Eagles. He gave up 2 sacks, I am aware, but look at the sacks. One of which he plain got beat off the edge, but the other was a communication mistake that he will have hammered out by the time the season comes around. And he had been working on new footwork before the first preseason game with Juan Castillo, and as a result, if you look when he got beat off the edge, he mixed (what I assume) is his footwork in Buffalo with the footwork being taught to him by Castillo, and it resulted in some wasted movement, which contributes a bit to him getting beat in that play. Once he is familiar with the blocking scheme and with the rest of the OL, I don't think it will be as big of an issue as you are making it out to be. Though I fully expect Ware to notch some sacks in the 2 games just simply because Ware is a monster.

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 05:31 PM
Well D-unit is the only other one, so here are some of my NFC East Bold predictions...

Eagles: 11-5 (#2 in NFC)
Giants: 11-5 (#5, wildcard)
Cowboys: 8-8
Redskins: 6-10

You can +/- each record one or two games, that about how I see it playing out.

Eagles:
Donovan will approach his best statistical year. With all these versatile weapons, it is bound to happen.

LeSean McCoy will have over 1,100 all purpose yards (I feel like I'm being conservative with this)

DeSean Jackson will have 1,200+ yards and ~8 TDs

Quentin Mikell will have an All-Pro calibur season. Does he get the status...?

Asante Samuel will have 6 INTS, 2 TDs, and give up 6 TDs this season, all while never tackling anyone...lol.

Andy Reid will show an unheard of commitment to running the football.

Leonard Weaver will steal hearts and bring joy to the earth.

Giants:

Jacobs will easily eclipse 1,000 yards and Bradshaw will near it, if not pass it as well.

Hakeem Nicks will be inconsistent, but will have at least 3 100 yard receiving games, as well as 7 or more TDs.

Steve Smith will step up and be like Amani Toomer has been in recent years, only better.

Osi and Tuck will both have ~12 sacks, maybe more.

Antonio Pierce will race Molasses down a hill... and lose.

Kenny Phillips will be surprisingly... average.

Madison Hedgecock will steal hearts and bring joy to the earth.

Cowboys:

Witten will have 1,200+ yards and 12+ TDs.

Bennett will have near 50 receptions, and will be lined up all over the place.

Felix Jones will have 1,100+ all-purpose yards (Once again, feel like I'm being conservative)

DeMarcus Ware will once again challenge the season sack record, tying it this time.

The scoreboard will be hit 8+ times this season.

Redskins:

Chris Cooley will show his ***** another time on his website.

Campbell will pick up his play to that of an average NFL QB, making the decision to let him go tougher.

Albert Haynesworth will perform under expectation.

Orakpo will show everyone major glimpses, and will prove to be the pass rusher the Skins have missed for so long. (If he is ever moved back to DE)

Laron Landry will go back in time and conceive Jesus, who is actualy Jordy Nelson.

Mike Sellers will steal hearts and bring joy to the earth.

D-Unit
08-26-2009, 08:23 PM
Nobody on the Cowboys will steal hearts and bring joy to the earth? :(

I like most of your calls.

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 08:36 PM
this post is reserved for my bold predictions that I'll post around 10ish. they're awesome fyi.

Paul
08-26-2009, 08:36 PM
Witten will have 1,200+ yards and 12+ TDs.


What is the best statistical year for a TE? Because those numbers would be ridiculous.

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 09:37 PM
ok, here it goes. Just some minor things I think/feel will happen.


Giants:

-Eli will cement himself as one of the betterQB's in the league. He'll put up nice numbers and win games with what is not a very good or experienced WR corps.

- Our WR corps will have some guys step up on some days, and others on others. No one will seperate themselves as our #1 guy. But Steve Smith will turn some heads. He will emerge as our top guy.

-Osi will remind you how great a player he really is. Extremist elert, BUT: Osi will finish this year and have people talking about him as the #1 DE in the game after this season. 17+ sacks.

- Kevin Boss will be our leading TD guy with around 7 or 8.

- Bradshaw and Jacobs will each eclipse the 1,000 yard mark.

-Ray Rice will emerge as an elite back, breaking the single season rushing record.

-Kenny Phillips will become the next great safety from the "U". He'll reach stud status. Behind Osi, I'm most excited for KP this year.

-Jeff Feagles will continue to defy father time and be more awesome than anyone on Philly, Dallas or Washington.

Iggles:

-Vick will make for an exciting addition. It'll be rusty and not fluid the first 1-2weeks, but weeks 3-7 Vick on the iggs will take the league by storm. Until the league figures out how to shut it down.

-Philly's offense will rip defenses because of their immense speed.

-Their downfall will be if a team out muscles them and figures out a way to keep a check on Westy

-Westy's health is the key. Yea, there's shady. But it's all on Westy and Mcnabb staying healthy.

-Minus JJ (RIP), Dawkins, and Bradley, this defense takes a step or 2 back. Cole loses a step as well, having an off year. (with like 8 sacks still)

Washington:

- I will continue to feel terrible for Jason Campbell and how poorly the Skins have treated him

-Clinton Portis will be awesome.

-However, the rest of the Skins offense will not be.

-Fat Albert will be good. that's it. not great, not dominant, just good.

-Rocky Mac will devour souls and be awesome.

-The Skins corners don't fix their bad case of stone hands

-Laron Landry will lay lots o' people out.

-Except Brandon Jacobs.

-Chris Cooley is recognized as just annoying now.

Dallas:

-Tony Romo isn't the golden boy. And it'll show. He's nothing without Jessica

-Witten will prove he's the best TE in the league. so much so that I'll actually admit it. but i'll still hate his stupid hick face and dumbness

-Martellus Bennet will make a Crunch Berries commercial. and proceed to put up very large numbers.

-Tashard Choice will be better than Felix Jones who'll start sliding to the "bust" catagory after a very disappointing year.

-if one starter on the OL goes down(for more than 2 games), Romo will get injured this season

-Speed rushers will continue to destroy the cowboys OL.

-Barber will cement himself...as the 4th best starter....in the division.

-Garrett will get his stuff together and utilize his plethora of backs and TE's to make up for the extreme lack of talent at WR, making the offense dangerous at times.

records? well since you asked:

Giants 11-5 (division winners)
Eagles: 10-6 (WC)
Cowboys: 7-9 (worst possible scenario for them. they need to win now or tank. Tank to get a stud in the draft and ditch Wade or make the playoffs, winning's contagious)
Skins: 6-10 (they show flashes, but this OL is not good and I don't like the way they're put together. oh and Campbell gives the whole team the bird and just stops playing.)

coordinator0
08-26-2009, 09:47 PM
ok, here it goes. Just some minor things I think/feel will happen.

-Ray Rice will emerge as an elite back, breaking the single season rushing record.



I hope so :D.

Thumper
08-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Ummm....

I'm an Eagles fan, and D-Init and I have butted heads it seems recently, but this is laughable.

K.

Not anywhere that I saw (got tired of reading about 3/4 of the way through) did you mention Jason Witten. Jason Witten, you know, the #1 TE in the whole NFL right now?

Yes. I am aware of Jason Witten, but could you please show me where D-Unit mentioned him? Why would I mention someone that we're not debating? Kind of dumb.

Now Felix may not be wuite what D-Unit is billing him up to be, (I don't know, I haven't seen enough of him) but I have seen enough of him to know that he is a dangerous weapon who will make plays, and you can't just tazke away his big plays when you are in arguments like this, he did what he did, and if you take away any of his results it makes your results useless. Sorry, just the way it is.

Fantastic, he might be the best Cowboy's weapon but is he really the best weapon in the NFC East after playing 6 games against some of the worst defenses in the NFL, caught 2 passes and when he actually faced a decent defense he averaged below 4 yards. Sorry but he is not the best weapon in the NFC East, but that isn't to say that he isn't a good weapon.

Martellus Bennett scares me. For real. He will step up and show some great performances if the coaching staff allows him the chance, which they should.

I think that I said I think that Martellus might break out so... what are you spouting off about?

As for the WRs that D-Unit mentioned, I'm not really sure where Roy stands, but without any statistical information, I feel like he won't be a big factor. Won't flop, but won't have the impact that many Cowboy fans hope. Just a gut feeling.

OK, I think he is a bust because he is not worth the top 10 pick spent on him, he is not worth the huge amount of picks the Cowboys sent to get him. Simply put, Roy Williams is lazy, injury prone and he doesn't play hard, all you have to do is watch all of last year to figure that out, he was awful.

Sam Hurd has been supposed to break out for 2 years now. Miles Austin too for a while I heard. I have one of those gut feelings that the team is getting a little too high on their backup WRs in recent years.

What does this have to do with anything I posted

As for Romo having a career year, I can't see it. He will put up solid numbers statistically, if only because of the playcalling, but despite the Cowboys fans statement that losign TO won't hurt them. I got news for them... it will, maybe not so much because you have good receiving options elsewhere, particularly in Witten, but it will impact the team greatly. It has happened everywhere else when he is left, so don't expect much different here.

So Witten is now going to produce good enough numbers to compensate for the loss of TO and keep up his production? Sorry, even if Witten has a career year it still does not compensate for TO. Jason Witten was targeted 120 times and TO was targeted 132 times. My point stands, TO was Romo's favorite target.

I personally love the Cowboys three headed attack. Barber is one of my favorite backs in the league, and Felix Jones has incredible talent, no doubt about it. Tashard Choice is also a great RB. On many teams, he would at least be a #2 RB, if not seeing significant action in a 2 back system. I think the Cowboys offense would benefit greatly if they dedicate more offensive playcalling to running the ball. It not only takes advantage of the skill players at RB, but it plays into the advatages of the O-line and with two TEs who are good blockers, it is an added bonus. Will Garrett make the switch to a more run-heavy attack? I don't think so, which leads me to my next point.

So are you even addressing my post anymore? :confused:

The O-line has some major concerns, particularly when it comes to health and when it comes to pass protection. They are a great group of run blockers, but pass pro is not what they are best at, and overall, it is a major weakness in that line. I think Garret can minimize the effect of this weakness with more run plays, but once again, I don't think that is a big issue.

So... you attack my post calling it laughable and now you have failed to give any back-up and are going on your own little tangent?

Dallas front 7 is a minor issue. DeMarcus Ware is a beast and always will be, and as a result, gets a lot of attention and can help mask some weaknesses in the front 7. As it was last year, that front 7 had issues against the run, and as much as I love Jay Ratliff, he is a small part of that. Ratliff himself is good against the run, he has quicknees to compensate for his size, but for some reason, the coaching staff doesn't seem confident in his run stopping abilities because other defenders are brought inside when many instances it isn't needed, and that results in holes in the running game elsewhere. There are some unproven/new guys there as well, it is something to watch.

The defensive line needs a lot of work. They lost their best DE in Canty and replaced him with Igor Olshansky. Not to mention they lost their Nickel LB in Burnett, they lost their starting LOLB in Ellis and replace them with Carpenter, Brooking and Spencer, two of whom are unknowns and Brooking is on the decline.

The numbers WITH Canty were this:
When the ball was ran outside of the LT, the Cowboys ranked 3rd in the NFL allowing less than 3 yards per carry.
When the ball was ran behind the LT the Cowboys ranked 14th allowing 4.04 yards per carry.
When the ball was ran up the middle (LG, C, RG) the Cowboys ranked 18th allowing 4.21 yards per carry
When the ball was ran behind the RT the Cowboys ranked 28th allowing 4.6 YPC
When the ball was ran outside the RT the Cowboys ranked 28th allowing more than 4.9 yards per carry.

And the RE (left side of the offense) in Chris Canty who was the best defensive lineman is now gone and who do they replace him with? Igor Olshansky who held down the right side of the Chargers to defense to the tune of a 28th ranking when the opposing team ran behind the LT for upwards of 4.8 yards. Yeah, the front 7 is an issue.

My post is laughable? Please... :rolleyes:

xxxxxxxx
08-26-2009, 10:01 PM
ok, here it goes. Just some minor things I think/feel will happen.


Giants:

-Eli will cement himself as one of the betterQB's in the league. He'll put up nice numbers and win games with what is not a very good or experienced WR corps.

- Our WR corps will have some guys step up on some days, and others on others. No one will seperate themselves as our #1 guy. But Steve Smith will turn some heads. He will emerge as our top guy.

-Osi will remind you how great a player he really is. Extremist elert, BUT: Osi will finish this year and have people talking about him as the #1 DE in the game after this season. 17+ sacks.

- Kevin Boss will be our leading TD guy with around 7 or 8.

- Bradshaw and Jacobs will each eclipse the 1,000 yard mark.

-Ray Rice will emerge as an elite back, breaking the single season rushing record.

-Kenny Phillips will become the next great safety from the "U". He'll reach stud status. Behind Osi, I'm most excited for KP this year.

-Jeff Feagles will continue to defy father time and be more awesome than anyone on Philly, Dallas or Washington.

Iggles:

-Vick will make for an exciting addition. It'll be rusty and not fluid the first 1-2weeks, but weeks 3-7 Vick on the iggs will take the league by storm. Until the league figures out how to shut it down.

-Philly's offense will rip defenses because of their immense speed.

-Their downfall will be if a team out muscles them and figures out a way to keep a check on Westy

-Westy's health is the key. Yea, there's shady. But it's all on Westy and Mcnabb staying healthy.

-Minus JJ (RIP), Dawkins, and Bradley, this defense takes a step or 2 back. Cole loses a step as well, having an off year. (with like 8 sacks still)

Washington:

- I will continue to feel terrible for Jason Campbell and how poorly the Skins have treated him

-Clinton Portis will be awesome.

-However, the rest of the Skins offense will not be.

-Fat Albert will be good. that's it. not great, not dominant, just good.

-Rocky Mac will devour souls and be awesome.

-The Skins corners don't fix their bad case of stone hands

-Laron Landry will lay lots o' people out.

-Except Brandon Jacobs.

-Chris Cooley is recognized as just annoying now.

Dallas:

-Tony Romo isn't the golden boy. And it'll show. He's nothing without Jessica

-Witten will prove he's the best TE in the league. so much so that I'll actually admit it. but i'll still hate his stupid hick face and dumbness

-Martellus Bennet will make a Crunch Berries commercial. and proceed to put up very large numbers.

-Tashard Choice will be better than Felix Jones who'll start sliding to the "bust" catagory after a very disappointing year.

-if one starter on the OL goes down(for more than 2 games), Romo will get injured this season

-Speed rushers will continue to destroy the cowboys OL.

-Barber will cement himself...as the 4th best starter....in the division.

-Garrett will get his stuff together and utilize his plethora of backs and TE's to make up for the extreme lack of talent at WR, making the offense dangerous at times.

records? well since you asked:

Giants 11-5 (division winners)
Eagles: 10-6 (WC)
Cowboys: 7-9 (worst possible scenario for them. they need to win now or tank. Tank to get a stud in the draft and ditch Wade or make the playoffs, winning's contagious)
Skins: 6-10 (they show flashes, but this OL is not good and I don't like the way they're put together. oh and Campbell gives the whole team the bird and just stops playing.)

LMAO look at how homer this post is....

I love when everyone makes a bold prediction.... it's how everyone on there team is so nasty and everyone else has a down year. lmao its great.

Osi best DE in the league and 17+ sacks. Yeah and skip bayless isn't on crack. What a joke lol. I love it.

Now negative rep me cause that is the only way you can react.. hahaha.

xxxxxxxx
08-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I respect the giants... but dude the was the biggest homer post i have ever seen.

Im not joking.

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 10:04 PM
LMAO look at how homer this post is....

I love when everyone makes a bold prediction.... it's how everyone on there team is so nasty and everyone else has a down year. lmao its great.

Osi best DE in the league and 17+ sacks. Yeah and skip bayless isn't on crack. What a joke lol. I love it.

Now negative rep me cause that is the only way you can react.. hahaha.

my bold prediction was on Osi. cool. it's a prediction thread, it's what it's here for. And, I neg repped you when you didn't give a reason tough guy. One bold prediction was about how a star DE coming off injury will surprise and dominate. but god forbid you address anything else. Osi's my favorite player in the league, of course I'm gonna homer pimp him up. But no, just look at that and continue to not have logic or reasoning in your posts. that's cool too.

oh and bringing up internet rep! omg! it's so important. people fail to realize neg rep is more of a way to insult stupid people using the words we deem necessary without getting infractions.

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 10:06 PM
I respect the giants... but dude the was the biggest homer post i have ever seen.

Im not joking.

the only thing homeris were the Osi and Eli comments, which is barely homerish.

Boss being our red zone target is a fact.

Our Wr's being inconsistant with Smith being our best is just a prediction.

and everyone knows that Ray Rice and Jeff Feagles are the best of all time.

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 11:04 PM
Nobody on the Cowboys will steal hearts and bring joy to the earth? :(

I like most of your calls.

If you had a beast FB that would help your chances, lol.

I played FB and I have a thing for FBs, especially really good ones...

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 11:07 PM
If you had a beast FB that would help your chances, lol.

I played FB and I have a thing for FBs, especially really good ones...

it's awesome how the NFC East can be loaded at a position like FB but just be awful at WR. It kinda shows we're a tough, smash mouth, take no prisoners division. i love it.

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 11:13 PM
it's awesome how the NFC East can be loaded at a position like FB but just be awful at WR. It kinda shows we're a tough, smash mouth, take no prisoners division. i love it.

What in the hell kind of NFC East is this when the Eagles have the best WR corp (we can all agree this isn't homer-tastic, right?) and a beast FB? lol.

I don't know how I'm going to react...

eaglesalltheway
08-26-2009, 11:31 PM
K.



Yes. I am aware of Jason Witten, but could you please show me where D-Unit mentioned him? Why would I mention someone that we're not debating? Kind of dumb.

You were talking about how the receiving corp and Romo would have a big time drop off without TO, while I say because of Witten and other players stepping in there (Bennett, Jones) TO's loss will not be as big as you expect it. If you actually look back over the whole paragraph, I did mention there would be a noticable dropoff, but not big like you are suggesting.

Fantastic, he might be the best Cowboy's weapon but is he really the best weapon in the NFC East after playing 6 games against some of the worst defenses in the NFL, caught 2 passes and when he actually faced a decent defense he averaged below 4 yards. Sorry but he is not the best weapon in the NFC East, but that isn't to say that he isn't a good weapon.



I think that I said I think that Martellus might break out so... what are you spouting off about?
Spouting off. I'm a little tea pot short and stout. (Coincidentally I in real life, am both short and stout. I guess I'm not allowed to talk about some things I want to just because I quoted your post. O poo.


OK, I think he is a bust because he is not worth the top 10 pick spent on him, he is not worth the huge amount of picks the Cowboys sent to get him. Simply put, Roy Williams is lazy, injury prone and he doesn't play hard, all you have to do is watch all of last year to figure that out, he was awful.



What does this have to do with anything I posted
Nothing. HAHA. Once again, I guess because I quoted you that barrs me from saying anything else.

So Witten is now going to produce good enough numbers to compensate for the loss of TO and keep up his production? Sorry, even if Witten has a career year it still does not compensate for TO. Jason Witten was targeted 120 times and TO was targeted 132 times. My point stands, TO was Romo's favorite target.
And with Witten now as the #1 target unquestionably, his targets will only go up... You think every single yard, catch and TD that TO had will be taken away this season? I highly doubt Romo has anywhere near 1,000 yards less this season. Witten will get more opportunities as will the other young players I mentioned.


So are you even addressing my post anymore? :confused:
Nope

So... you attack my post calling it laughable and now you have failed to give any back-up and are going on your own little tangent?
Yup I attacked it. I came up on it in a dark alley and beat the ever living **** out of it. :rolleyes: Its time to grow up man, I disagreed with you, gave valid points, and you whine about it, like I'm supposed to agree with you because we are fans of the same team. I disagreed with it, as would many, wah.


The defensive line needs a lot of work. They lost their best DE in Canty and replaced him with Igor Olshansky. Not to mention they lost their Nickel LB in Burnett, they lost their starting LOLB in Ellis and replace them with Carpenter, Brooking and Spencer, two of whom are unknowns and Brooking is on the decline.
If you count Ware as an LB (which I am in this case) Jay Ratliff was their best DL last year, unquestionably, despite his less than perfect fit as a nose, he was much better than Canty. That is not to say Canty wasn't good, he sure as hell was, but Jay Ratliff made a much bigger impact for them in the games I saw.
They lost Ellis and replaced him with Brooking, really not much of a change there, could be good, could be bad, we'll see.
Ellis is replaced by Spencer. I personally don't have confidence in Spencer, so that is one area where I am worried for them.
Olshanksy replaces Canty, and that is just about even there as well.

Overall not much diffrence at all in terms of quality in that front 7. They may need to work as a unit more, much like our OL, but there isn't a major dropoff in talent like you are suggesting. You have to account for the rpelacemnts, not just that they lost someone.

The numbers WITH Canty were this:
When the ball was ran outside of the LT, the Cowboys ranked 3rd in the NFL allowing less than 3 yards per carry.
When the ball was ran behind the LT the Cowboys ranked 14th allowing 4.04 yards per carry.
When the ball was ran up the middle (LG, C, RG) the Cowboys ranked 18th allowing 4.21 yards per carry
When the ball was ran behind the RT the Cowboys ranked 28th allowing 4.6 YPC
When the ball was ran outside the RT the Cowboys ranked 28th allowing more than 4.9 yards per carry.

And the RE (left side of the offense) in Chris Canty who was the best defensive lineman is now gone and who do they replace him with? Igor Olshansky who held down the right side of the Chargers to defense to the tune of a 28th ranking when the opposing team ran behind the LT for upwards of 4.8 yards. Yeah, the front 7 is an issue.

My post is laughable? Please... :rolleyes:

Well this post confirmed it for me. You are EF45, and thoguh I've felt this was a distinct possibility for a while, this confirms it. And there was so much potential too...

(obviously I am in a strnage mood right now, but its all good.)

Thumper
08-26-2009, 11:52 PM
This stuff isn't even wrong.

There will be a dropoff in Romo's production without his #1 target. Witten is a fantastic TE but he isn't going to replace TO, is Witten magically going to end up with 1000 more yards and 10 more touchdowns just because TO left and now he will get all of TO's looks? No, there will be a dropoff because TO was far and away the best WR and it is my opinion that Roy Williams is a bust. Of course someone will help compensate for TO's lost production but come on, the numbers will not be the same.

Well you were talking about things in the same order I had them posted so... I thought that you were still replying to me. My bad.

I too count Ware as a LB seeing as that is the position he plays. Also I said Canty was the best DE not the best DL. Ratliff was undoubtedly their best lineman.

Brooking is replacing Zac Thomas btw.

I am accounting for replacements and I do not believe that Spencer, Brooking and Carpenter are better than Thomas, Ellis and Burnett. Neither do I believe that Igor is as good as Chris Canty.

I like Igor and he had a few good years, but last year he played badly and the stats show it. He could have a jump in production/quality once he gets back into the system that he played best in.


So let me get this straight, I said these things:
Romo will not have a breakout year, especially because he lost his #1 target
I do not believe that Roy Williams will adequately replace TO
I don't believe the Cowboys have a legit chance at a superbowl run
I don't think Sam Hurd is going to break out
I don't think that Garrett is a good coordinator and that he will save the day
I don't believe that Wade Phillips will happily take a downgrade for a team that he just led to the playoffs (according to D)
Terrance Newman won't be an all-pro
Felix Jones isn't the best weapon in the NFC East
The offensive line is not that good
The Cowboys receivers are the worst in the division
The defense is the worst in the division
And the only pass rusher they have now is Ware

And for saying these 'blasphemous' things I am now suddenly one of the most notorious homers in the history of the message board? I have stats and logic behind all of these things and none of them are really that outlandish. I'm not here to please all sides like you are (not that there is anything wrong with that).

And I apologize for an miscommunication we may have had in this conversation.

scottyboy
08-26-2009, 11:58 PM
i find it hard to believe that my post was the most homerish thing evar.

but this is the NFC east forum where every post by someone is going to seem homerish to another.

and on Romo, I think he may become more efficient as a passer with shorter routes, more TE involvement and throwing to the backs more. He won't put up huge numbers and I think that this Dallas team will go through a rough patch and if they're lucky, big ol' Wade will take the blame.

outside of a miraculous deep playoff/super bowl run for the Cowboys, the best thing for them in the future is a bad season. Get Wade out of there. Get some WR talent through the draft. Fix some OL problems such as struggling against speed rushers and the putrid depth. I've talked to some cowboys fans i know who are hoping for a 2-14 season haha.

D-Unit
08-27-2009, 12:30 AM
If you had a beast FB that would help your chances, lol.

I played FB and I have a thing for FBs, especially really good ones...
Awe man... You don't know the Deon Anderson story? Boy was homeless while he played football for UCONN. So dedicated to the game of football, he gives all he's got on every play. He lays himself out trying to create holes for our more heralded RBs.

xxxxxxxx
08-27-2009, 07:31 AM
When the Cowboys win this division there better be some healthy crow eaters around.

That's all i have to say.

Brothgar
08-27-2009, 09:14 AM
Here is an outsider opinion! WHEE!

Things I feel will happen.

NY FOOTBALL GIANTS

- We will find out exactly what Eli Manning is, good or bad we will find out exactly what Eli Manning is.

- The D and the running game are going to continue to produce.

- Kenny Phillips is going to improve but not break out.

- The passing game will suffer early and may be the worst in the division.

Philadelphia Eagles

- Donovan McNabb will miss multiple games this season.

- Shady's roll will expand as the season goes on.

- Andy Reid will start to run the ball a little bit.

- The D will suffer with all the FA losses. But the loss of JJ will not be as big of a factor as originally suggested.

- Mike Vick is going to remind us that he wasn't that good of a QB to begin with.

- Jason Peters is going to prove that he wasn't worth a first round pick or his huge paycheck.

Dallas Cowboys

- Jason Witten is going to be a pure fantasy stud this season.

- Roy Williams is going to improve from last season but won't be the savior that the Cowboys were hoping for.

- Tony Romo will avoid the post TO slump Roy won't be GREAT but will be good enough.

- Felix Jones will get injured again and the running game suffers again.

- DaMarcus Ware will be seen as the league's most dominant 3-4 OLB.

Washington Redskins

-Albert Haynesworth is going to struggle early in the heat but when winter comes Haynesworth will come to his own.

- The defense is going to be considered one of if not the best unit in the NFC but will still give up alot of points more due to offensive futility than the D's ineptitude.

- Clinton Portis will be the lone shining star on a bad offense.

- Colt Brennen will get his shot at one point in the season.

- The Skins will keep the season record a lot closer than expected.

Now for the records

NY Football Giants 12-4
Dallas Cowboys 10-6
Philadelphia Eagles 8-8
Washington Redskins 8-8

scottyboy
08-27-2009, 09:38 AM
When the Cowboys win this division there better be some healthy crow eaters around.

That's all i have to say.

so what're you gonna do when they don't make the playoffs? will you even still be on the boards?

and god forbid you use logic or reason to backup saying the cowboys will win the division.

and you called my post homerish

bigbluedefense
08-27-2009, 11:17 AM
I was our emergency FB in high school. I played CB and FS and WR on offense.

But FB was so fun to play. I loved run blocking. But at 150 lbs soaking wet, I didn't make for much of a FB :p

I hated WR. Our qb sucked anyway, I ran around for nothing.

CB was hard as balls. FS was my favorite, but ask any FS, FS can either be the funnest position on defense to play, or the worst, depending on how good the CBs around you are.

Its great when you can just roam and do your thing, but it sucks something awful when the qb says hike, and 4 WRs are open downfield and you as the FS have to pick and choose which one to pick up while 1 of the other WRs catches the ball and runs it in for a touchdown.

Then theres those 215 lb RBs who are running full steam at you, and you as a 150 lb FS have to aim low and pray you don't get a concussion.

Brothgar
08-27-2009, 11:32 AM
Is it just me or does it seem that almost every team in the division has 4 guaranteed wins considering they are playing against both the AFC west.

bigbluedefense
08-27-2009, 12:16 PM
Is it just me or does it seem that almost every team in the division has 4 guaranteed wins considering they are playing against both the AFC west.

No, youre greatly underestimating the effects of traveling from one coast to another. There will be some upsets in those games, I guarantee it.

eaglesalltheway
08-27-2009, 01:09 PM
Awe man... You don't know the Deon Anderson story? Boy was homeless while he played football for UCONN. So dedicated to the game of football, he gives all he's got on every play. He lays himself out trying to create holes for our more heralded RBs.

That really is a nice story, maybe he will steal hearts, but not quite bring joy to the earth...

That being said, he isn't on the calibur of the other FBs in the league if you ask me...

eaglesalltheway
08-27-2009, 01:23 PM
I was our emergency FB in high school. I played CB and FS and WR on offense.

But FB was so fun to play. I loved run blocking. But at 150 lbs soaking wet, I didn't make for much of a FB :p

I hated WR. Our qb sucked anyway, I ran around for nothing.

CB was hard as balls. FS was my favorite, but ask any FS, FS can either be the funnest position on defense to play, or the worst, depending on how good the CBs around you are.

Its great when you can just roam and do your thing, but it sucks something awful when the qb says hike, and 4 WRs are open downfield and you as the FS have to pick and choose which one to pick up while 1 of the other WRs catches the ball and runs it in for a touchdown.

Then theres those 215 lb RBs who are running full steam at you, and you as a 150 lb FS have to aim low and pray you don't get a concussion.

I wasn't a FB until high school, I was a almost always a linemen on both sides of the ball until then, and I just love the less celebrated positions. But with me being only 5'8, and my school having a lot of very big guys along the line, they moved me to FB my sophomore year. I had played a few snaps in my youth leagues as a RB, which is why they felt confident I could do it I guess. But I still sayed at DT, so even then I was being called Dan Klecko by some of my more knowledgeable teammates. I love playing along the OL, I was mostly a Center and Guard, but FB was great as well. I was quick enough that I could handle a lot of the extra space that there sometimes is. I was bigger than you though, 185-190 when I was playing so I can only assume by body fit that of a FB better than yours, but man did I love it. Most of our backs weren't good pass protectors, so that is where my linemen days really helped me, though getting used to the little differences took about two months of work for me, listening to my coaches. Though I'm not the type of person to want the ball, it felt like such a rush when I'd get it, lol. I have good hands too so I would catch some shorter passes, though rarely, as our team was more of a run heavy offense. But our starting Varsity FB was a beast, and was waaaay batter than me all around, especially as a run blocker, but he was 6'1 or 6'2 at the time and over 220 lbs easily, just a monster. He's actually starting for Kutztown IIRC, a small college (Andre Reed went there) near where I live. But the lines and positions like FB are my favorite to play for sure.

Rosebud
08-29-2009, 03:03 PM
NYG
-Ahmad Bradshaw will prove he's a better all around RB than Brandon Jacobs as he'll average a higher YPC, more receptions and as good of pass pro
-Mario Manningham may be borderline ********, but he'll still give us a viable deep threat that teams will respect by week 8, uponing up the underneath and intermediate routes for Smith, Nicks and Boss
-Osi re-establishes himself as one of the league's best DEs and takes double-teams off of Tuck
-Antonio Pierce will race a cripple and lose
-Terrell Thomas will start for the injured Aaron Ross and with his play will stop the coaches from giving Ross the job back once he's fully healthy.
-Jeff Feagles continues to pwn father time

Eagles
-While the eagles field their most explosive team in the McNabb era they struggle to string together significant drives in crunch time
-Despite losing Dawk, JJ and Stewart their defense doesn't skip a beat and remains top 10
-Jason Peters continues to struggle in the early part of the season but turns it on as the playoffs draw near, still ending with 11 sacks against but finishing the season the elite LT we saw in buffalo two years ago
-Andy Reid actually calls runs until Brian Westbrook gets banged up causing Reid to proclaim that running the ball is for suckers as the eagles average 8 rushes per game from that point forward.
-Donovan McNabb gets banged up and is replaced by michael vick, despite becoming Philly's leading rusher after two games Vick still completes only 48% of his passes.
-Donovan still doesn't know NFL games can end in a tie.

Dallas
-Wade Phillips...he's terrible
-Jason Garrett...he's terrible
-Tony Romo...he's awesome but with a weakened group of WRs teams focus on shutting down Witten which castrates the dallas passing attack
-Despite having the highest per carry average in the NFC East the Cowboys challenge the Eagles for least rushes in a season
-On his way to matching Michael Strahan's sack record DeMarcus Ware sacks OC Jason Garrett when on 4th and inches Garrett calls a third straight PA pass to a triple covered Jason Witten

Redskins
-Fat Albert is his dominant self, but with no help from the offense Haynesworth is worn down by half time in each game.
-Colt Brennan starts three games
-Marko Mitchell wins a starting spot by the mid point of the season
-Carlos Rogers continues to try and surpass Will Allen for worst hands in NFC East history
-Fred Smoot proves himself to be a tougher and better tackler than DeAngelo Hall, wrestling away a starting CB spot.
-After leading the league in rushing for the first 10 weeks Clinton Portis shuts it down as the Redskins Offensive Line challenges Detroit and San Fran for the worst in the league

NFC East
NYG 11-5
Philly 10-5-1
Dallas 9-7
Washington 6-10 (they are 6-5, before closing the season with 5 straight loses)

Brothgar
08-30-2009, 12:53 AM
No, youre greatly underestimating the effects of traveling from one coast to another. There will be some upsets in those games, I guarantee it.

I think you are greatly underestimating exactly how bad the AFC West is this season.

FUNBUNCHER
08-30-2009, 01:24 AM
I'm an Eagles fan and I say
Giants 11-5
Eagles 10-6
Cowboys 8-8
Redskins 7-9

Once again the NFC East retains its status as the best division in football. Every game between division opponents is a tight-played two-way physical beatdown. Eagles and Giants play each other in the NFC Championship.

Unfortunately for a Skins fan, your prediction to me seems to be the most accurate. The Skins are too solid a team outside the division for others to predict a 4-12 to 6-10 record. Jason Campbell based on the NE pre performance appears to be more willing this year to attack down the middle of the field.

And I still believe the Skins have the most talented WRs corps in the division with Malcolm Kelly,(6'4), Devin Thomas,(6'2, 4.3), Moss, ARE, and rookie Marko Mitchell,(6'4, 4.4).

The real issue is there is no depth at all on the Oline, or at RB, and it's guaranteed one or more starters will go down during the season with injuries. If Samuels misses more than 2 games, the season is in the toilet.

The LB corps is okay, but the backups are basically STers.

IMO Hayensworth is going to put someone's starting QB out with an injury, he really does have a nasty disposition/split personality!! After he drove Brady into the dirt with his 350 pounds planted into his right shoulder, Bad Al stood up and offered Brady a hand up!!!

If Jason Campbell goes through a Brees like transformation this year, the Skins could challenge for a wildcard. If he's the JC that led the SKins to a 2-6 record the 2nd half of last season, 8-8 or 7-9 is probably the ceiling for wins.

EDIT: Osi maybe tops out at 14 sacks. I don't where 17+ comes from except for crazy love for the Big Blue.

Rosebud
08-31-2009, 10:16 PM
Osi gets those type of predictions because he's our best DE and there will be plenty of pass rushers that will try to take away some of the double-teams away from him. That said i don't think he'll get crazy numbers because there'll be a lot of times where he could get a sack but someone else will get it first.

DiG
09-03-2009, 12:26 PM
Dirty Thirty NFC East Standings Prediction:

1. Philadelphia Eagles 11-5
2. New York Giants 9-7
3. Washington Redskins 9-7
4. Dallas Cowboys 8-8

Dirty Thirty Team Predictions:

Eagles

- McNabb makes the Pro Bowl
- Fokuo starts at MLB by year end
- Vick rushes for more tds than he throws
- Desean eclipses 1000 yards receiving
- Westbrook kills the Redskins

Giants

- Eli does something dumb
- Bradshaw finishes with more total yards than Jacobs
- No current rostered receiver establishes himself as a #1
- Tuck has more sacks than Osi (both in double digits)

Redskins

- Moss leads the NFC East in receiving
- Portis leads the NFC East in rushing
- Campbell finishes last in the NFC East for QB Rating
- Orakpo wins DRTOY
- London Fletcher makes his first pro bowl

Cowboys

- Witten leads the team in receptions, yards, and tds
- Romo dates a blonde and it gets a lot of media attention
- Felix Jones averages over 5 ypc and has over 5 tds
- Demarcus Ware continues to be crazy good...
- Bye bye Wade Phillips

herniateddisc
09-06-2009, 11:45 PM
Giants
-- Eli will suck pretty bad
-- Jacobs will get injured
-- Bradshaw will be pretty damn good
-- No WR get anything done except Nicks
-- D is great
-- Osi is not
-- Wild Card and pray for horrid Jan weather. If so, SB IMHO.

Cowboys
-- O will be great ...
-- Until one of the OL goes down
-- Jones might average 8 YPC on 150 carries.
-- WR are much better than expected
-- D suffers lack of true NT and ILB
-- Win division but get bounced

Redskins
-- Haynesworth is a bust
-- Campbell is a bust
-- Coach gets fired
-- WR, except Moss, are over-rated
-- OL over-rated
-- Last place
-- Landry hurts a few people

Eagles
-- Vicka and McNabb fight
-- WR over-rated
-- D plays much better than expected
-- Wesbrook is too injured too often
-- OL looks good though
-- third

Thumper
09-06-2009, 11:51 PM
Ugh, Vick and McNabb will not fight. Apparently nobody understands that McNabb was the one who TOLD Andy Reid to look into Vick.

Brothgar
09-07-2009, 01:28 AM
Ugh, Vick and McNabb will not fight. Apparently nobody understands that McNabb was the one who TOLD Andy Reid to look into Vick.

So he says. We don't know what really happened. It wouldn't be the first time McNabb towed the company line.

Brothgar
09-07-2009, 01:29 AM
Giants
-- Eli will suck pretty bad
-- Jacobs will get injured
-- Bradshaw will be pretty damn good
-- No WR get anything done except Nicks
-- D is great
-- Osi is not
-- Wild Card and pray for horrid Jan weather. If so, SB IMHO.

Cowboys
-- O will be great ...
-- Until one of the OL goes down
-- Jones might average 8 YPC on 150 carries.
-- WR are much better than expected
-- D suffers lack of true NT and ILB
-- Win division but get bounced

Redskins
-- Haynesworth is a bust
-- Campbell is a bust
-- Coach gets fired
-- WR, except Moss, are over-rated
-- OL over-rated
-- Last place
-- Landry hurts a few people

Eagles
-- Vicka and McNabb fight
-- WR over-rated
-- D plays much better than expected
-- Wesbrook is too injured too often
-- OL looks good though
-- third

Gee I wonder which team you are a fan of.

herniateddisc
09-07-2009, 05:59 PM
Gee I wonder which team you are a fan of.

I think only the G-Men can make it ..... I think they have the best D in Football going into the season. I just am not a fan of the O.

Rosebud
09-07-2009, 07:10 PM
I think only the G-Men can make it ..... I think they have the best D in Football going into the season. I just am not a fan of the O.

And yet you're a fan of the cowboys O which is just as one-dimensional under Garrett. :rolleyes:

ricowboy
09-07-2009, 09:23 PM
1. Giants: Best o-line and d-line in the east! Eli is a legitimate stud at QB.

2. Eagles: Better coach than Dallas.

3. Dallas: The talent is there, but coach sucks!

4. Washington: Bad front office and bad coach.....

herniateddisc
09-07-2009, 11:33 PM
And yet you're a fan of the cowboys O which is just as one-dimensional under Garrett. :rolleyes:

For whatever reason, I rather have our 11 on O than the Giants ALL-in-ALL.

I know GMen fans love Eli and think the world of the OLine but I don't think them very good w/o Plax. Much more one dimensional than any Offense in the NFC East right now if you ask me.

With that stated, I think the GMen might have the most talented WR Core in the NFC top-to-bottom.... but first they need to develop and also they need to carve out roles.

I have seen enough GMen to know Plax was like an outlet valve for Eli every time **** broke down. He could just chuck it up there and Plax would get it. Maybe Ramses B can provide that but the WR core in GMan land is way too young IMHO. Eli is going to have issues with completions versus blitzing teams. WHo is he going to trust? Nicks? Smith? Ramses? Moss? Who??? Boss? No way.

With respect to your running game, it is very good but playing all 16 with 8-9 in the box will have its toll on Jacobs and Bradshaw.

Hey, I like the GMen come January. No Plax, new D Coordinator, young skill players on O .... I think come Jan some of that goes away for playoff time as your team identifies roles for these young guys, D Coord get his rep down.

DiG
09-08-2009, 09:12 AM
Redskins

-- WR, except Moss, are over-rated
-- OL over-rated



How can the WRs outside Moss and the O Line be overrated when both are considered below average? The expectations of the young WRs are high but neither of them are considered highly rated at this point. And the O Line is widely recognized as the weakest piece of the team.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 07:39 PM
So this is not really a prediction based on all things being equal. This is basically some dreamt up scenario that is not based on who is the best team. Who's to say Giants will acquire some big name player? All things being equal the Giants are overrated and don't have one legit star receiver on their team at TE or WR. I don't know why everyone has them doing so well.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 07:41 PM
And yet you're a fan of the cowboys O which is just as one-dimensional under Garrett. :rolleyes:

In what way is our offense one-dimensional? :rolleyes:

D-Unit
09-08-2009, 07:45 PM
In what way is our offense one-dimensional? :rolleyes:
So quincy, how is that 53 man roster projection of yours with all of our rookies in it lookin'? :rolleyes:

Eat Crow.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 07:54 PM
1. Giants: Best o-line and d-line in the east! Eli is a legitimate stud at QB.



Eli Manning had his best season as a QB last year and only had an 86 QB rating. Romo has never fell below 90 any of the seasons he has played. Eli is far from being a stud QB. He is a good bus driver QB and benefits greatly from a good defense and run game.



2. Eagles: Better coach than Dallas.
Only if he was as good a father as he is a coach:rolleyes:

McNabb is on the decline and Vick is not going to be the factor people think he will be coming out of Prison.

Plus Ware dominates Vick. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojp2DkYpw0U)


3. Dallas: The talent is there, but coach sucks!


yeah because Wade has a 22-10 record since being here in Dallas and his defense led the league in sacks with 59. What an awful coach. [/sarcasm] Not saying he is great. He still needs to win a playoff game, then again neither did the supposedly great Parcells when he was here with us.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 07:59 PM
So quincy, how is that 53 man roster projection of yours with all of our rookies in it lookin'? :rolleyes:

Eat Crow.

If not for Brandon Williams getting injured 9 of our players would have made the roster (Brewster is on PUP and will certainly be given a spot when he comes back). So 9 made the roster (subtracting the 2 7th rounders and Smith a 5th rounder). I said around 10, and 9 is around ten. I can't imagine what you are so obliviously beating your chest about.

And not that it matters, but despite being cut Deangelo Smith made another team's roster.

D-Unit
09-08-2009, 08:15 PM
If not for Brandon Williams getting injured 9 of our players would have made the roster (Brewster is on PUP and will certainly be given a spot when he comes back). So 9 made the roster (subtracting the 2 7th rounders and Smith a 5th rounder). I said around 10, and 9 is around ten. I can't imagine what you are so obliviously beating your chest about.

And not that it matters, but despite being cut Deangelo Smith made another team's roster.
Not that I thought you'd man up to it anyways...

IF, IF, IF.... Nice excuses.

There are 6 of our 12 draft picks on our final 53 man roster. You didn't say that.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 08:51 PM
Not that I thought you'd man up to it anyways...

IF, IF, IF.... Nice excuses.

There are 6 of our 12 draft picks on our final 53 man roster. You didn't say that.

Ah yes I forgot about Hodge who was placed on IR.

How did you come up with that number? Jason Williams, Butler, McGee, Hamlin, Buehler, Phillips, and Brewster is on PUP and will certainly be on the roster when he gets better. That is 7.

You're arguement is that our draft was not talented enough to make our roster. Not that they would get injured. Sorry but I am not clairvoyant and can foresee injuries. Fact of the matter is if Brandon Williams and Stephen Hodge were not placed on IR all indications point to them making the roster. Only 3 out of the 12 were outright cut, and two of them were 7th rounders and one of them was a fifth rounder, who made another team's roster. So apparently he was talented enough to make an NFL roster.

Anyhow. Your point was that the front office made poor choices in the draft. You can't blame them for 2 players getting put on IR and whom have never had a serious injury in their college careers, so that was totally unforeseen. So basically you are pissed because 3 players out of twelve were outright cut: two 7th rounders and a 5th rounder. Is that really something to get upset about? Get real.

D-Unit
09-08-2009, 09:04 PM
Ah yes I forgot about Hodge who was placed on IR.

How did you come up with that number? Jason Williams, Butler, McGee, Hamlin, Buehler, Phillips, and Brewster is on PUP and will certainly be on the roster when he gets better. That is 7.

You're arguement is that our draft was not talented enough to make our roster. Not that they would get injured. Sorry but I am not clairvoyant and can foresee injuries. Fact of the matter is if Brandon Williams and Stephen Hodge were not placed on IR all indications point to them making the roster. Only 3 out of the 12 were outright cut, and two of them were 7th rounders and one of them was a fifth rounder, who made another team's roster. So apparently he was talented enough to make an NFL roster.

Anyhow. Your point was that the front office made poor choices in the draft. You can't blame them for 2 players getting put on IR and whom have never had a serious injury in their college careers, so that was totally unforeseen. So basically you are pissed because 3 players out of twelve were outright cut: two 7th rounders and a 5th rounder. Is that really something to get upset about? Get real.
Unfortunately, this is a bottom line business and injuries are a part of the equation whether that is fair or not. Nobody is gonna give a damn about "what's fair" when it comes down to it. In the end, real results are the only thing that will determine how good or bad this draft was. The guys that were cut or got injured that didn't help the team make for piss poor draft value. ...and I'm not one to toss aside the value of picks. Especially when you consider how late many of our starts were drafted. I'm just seeing the sand fall between my fingers here. Trying to find something positive coming from this draft, but the reality is that there is a lot of waste. Wasted picks = Egg on Jerry's face.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 09:13 PM
Unfortunately, this is a bottom line business and injuries are a part of the equation whether that is fair or not. Nobody is gonna give a damn about "what's fair" when it comes down to it. In the end, real results are the only thing that will determine how good or bad this draft was. The guys that were cut or got injured that didn't help the team make for piss poor draft value. ...and I'm not one to toss aside the value of picks. Especially when you consider how late many of our starts were drafted. I'm just seeing the sand fall between my fingers here. Trying to find something positive coming from this draft, but the reality is that there is a lot of waste. Wasted picks = Egg on Jerry's face.

So if picks get injured in their rookie year that means they are busts and are equivalent to being cut? That is patently absurd. They weren't really expect to make any significant contribution to this team this year anyhow. Especially since they were a 4th and 6th rounders. Their value to the team will come one to two years down the road.

Not to mention that our 7th rounders are on our practice squad and could very well join the roster down the road and make a contribution to the team just like Patrick Crayton did when he was on the practice squad the first year.

Anyhow my point was that around ten picks were good picks because they were talented enough to make the roster and your point was they weren't talented enough to make the roster. And in fact around ten would have made the roster if they weren't injured and you know it. Injuries did not factor at all in any of our discussions. Now you are shifting the line. Our argument was about talent, but since you can't win on that point you change the course of the discussion. Nice try.

D-Unit
09-08-2009, 09:35 PM
So if picks get injured in their rookie year that means they are busts and are equivalent to being cut? That is patently absurd. They weren't really expect to make any significant contribution to this team this year anyhow. Especially since they were a 4th and 6th rounders. Their value to the team will come one to two years down the road.

Not to mention that our 7th rounders are on our practice squad and could very well join the roster down the road and make a contribution to the team just like Patrick Crayton did when he was on the practice squad the first year.

Anyhow my point was that around ten picks were good picks because they were talented enough to make the roster and your point was they weren't talented enough to make the roster. And in fact around ten would have made the roster if they weren't injured and you know it. Injuries did not factor at all in any of our discussions. Now you are shifting the line. Our argument was about talent, but since you can't win on that point you change the course of the discussion. Nice try.
More putting words in my mouth. Sigh. Where did I call the guys hurt being busts already? I said they were wasted picks. We still may get value from them, but is Robert Brewster a 3rd round pick in value today? Brandon Williams a 4th round value today? etc etc. If the draft was today, we wouldn't sniff them that early. The difference is, you don't blame management. I'm saying where there's waste, there's fault. Fault that ulitmately must fall on Jerry's shoulders, no matter what's "Fair".

Of course we spoke about injuries. Brewster's at the time. What I just said above is a repeat of what I said earlier over and over again. Just more players are now involved. I can't sit here and say we didn't draft talented players. That was never my beef anyways. I said we reached. I think we did. I said we shouldn't have traded out of 51. Still think so today. I think we had a lot of draft picks that we could've used to get quality over quantitiy. Now that quantity appears to be slipping away. So we get neither quality or quantitiy. Instead waste.

You can still think this year's draft was great and all. You can ignore the fact that the guys you thought would make the team didn't. Meanwhile, I'll just call it like I see it. Not an entire waste, but mistakes galore.

quincyyyyy
09-08-2009, 10:12 PM
More putting words in my mouth. Sigh. Where did I call the guys hurt being busts already? I said they were wasted picks.
Wasted picks = Busts. I'm not putting words in your mouth. You say To-may-to I say To-mah-to. You are doing an extremely poor job covering up your ridiculous assertions.
is Robert Brewster a 3rd round pick in value today? Brandon Williams a 4th round value today? etc etc. If the draft was today, we wouldn't sniff them that early. The difference is, you don't blame management. I'm saying where there's waste, there's fault. Fault that ulitmately must fall on Jerry's shoulders, no matter what's "Fair".

Um and who exactly did we expect Brewster to beat out for a starting job? Colombo? Davis? Kosier? I sincerely doubt that Tom and Jerry were under any illusion that a third round lineman would beat out one of our starters. Brewster was picked as a developmental prospect to eventually start down the road. Not this year. Saying we lost value because Brewster was put on PUP or that Tom and Jerry would not have taken him where they did because of his injury is ridiculous. Same goes for Brandon Williams.

The difference is, you don't blame management. I'm saying where there's waste, there's fault. Fault that ulitmately must fall on Jerry's shoulders, no matter what's "Fair".

All of these players who got injured didn't have an injury history in college. So no I don't blame the management for not foreseeing the unforeseeable. And it has nothing to do with "fair." It has to do with you being ridiculous. Sometimes no one is to blame. You can't accept that. The same argument you are making the Nazis used for the Jews. Was it their fault that the German economy went in the crapper? No, but the Jews got blamed for it whether it was "fair" or not. Now obviously that example is an hyperbole. But it illustrates my point that assigning blame just for the sake of assigning blame is stupid, and often gets you into trouble.

What I just said above is a repeat of what I said earlier over and over again. Just more players are now involved. I can't sit here and say we didn't draft talented players. That was never my beef anyways. I said we reached. I think we did. I said we shouldn't have traded out of 51. Still think so today. I think we had a lot of draft picks that we could've used to get quality over quantitiy. Now that quantity appears to be slipping away. So we get neither quality or quantitiy. Instead waste.

You can still think this year's draft was great and all. You can ignore the fact that the guys you thought would make the team didn't. Meanwhile, I'll just call it like I see it. Not an entire waste, but mistakes galore.
And I pointed out to you we didn't overreach. Consensus was Jason Williams and Robert Brewster were third rounders. The only person you can legitimately say that we "reached" for was Victor Butler who most people had ranked a lot lower than where we drafted him. And look how that turned out. Furthermore, we needed all those players we drafted. We needed around 10 new players. OLB Brandon Williams being put on IR, necessitated us picking up OLB Curtis Johnson. Safety Deangelo Smith being cut necessitated us picking Safety Marvin White. Because of the lack of depth on this team (as last year's injuries showed) we didn't really have the luxury of packaging numerous picks to get a few potentially more talented players.

I think we had a lot of draft picks that we could've used to get quality over quantitiy. Now that quantity appears to be slipping away. So we get neither quality or quantitiy. Instead waste.


If you were expecting Hodge, Williams, and Brewster to making a significant contribution this year your expectations were way way way too high. Who is Hodge going to beat out: James or Brooking? Who is Williams going to beat out Ware or Spencer? Did you expect Brewster to beat out Colombo? They are rookies not Free agents. You don't seem to understand the difference.




You can still think this year's draft was great and all. You can ignore the fact that the guys you thought would make the team didn't. Meanwhile, I'll just call it like I see it. Not an entire waste, but mistakes galore.

I don't think this year's draft was great, but it was good and what this team needed. And The only guy that I thought that would make it and got cut was Deangelo Smith, so you are not really calling it as you are seeing it. You are just being ridiculous.

D-Unit
09-08-2009, 11:07 PM
Wasted picks = Busts. I'm not putting words in your mouth. You say To-may-to I say To-mah-to. You are doing an extremely poor job covering up your ridiculous assertions.

Tell me what is ridiculous about saying this draft sucked when we had 12 picks and only 6 are on the 53 man roster on opening day? Great job you say? Sigh. There is a difference between wasted picks and busts. It's called draft value. But I guess that's what you want to fail to acknowledge. People usually do that when they're losing a debate. We got crap value out of our picks. How do you defend that? ..By saying my logic is screwed and avoiding the facts. That's how. lol. Terrible ... dare I say cowardly approach? I started off by saying we never maximized our draft assets. I stand by that point.

Um and who exactly did we expect Brewster to beat out for a starting job? Colombo? Davis? Kosier? I sincerely doubt that Tom and Jerry were under any illusion that a third round lineman would beat out one of our starters. Brewster was picked as a developmental prospect to eventually start down the road. Not this year. Saying we lost value because Brewster was put on PUP or that Tom and Jerry would not have taken him where they did because of his injury is ridiculous. Same goes for Brandon Williams.

OK, so you think a year on PUP is the equivalent as a year of health and being on the team. :rolleyes:

Did I expect him to start? No. Did I expect that Proctor and McQuistan would start last year and that we'd have to trade for Holland too? No. We knew that this was going to be a development year for Brewster, but he's not even doing that. If you think reading the playbook is the equivalent then... :/

All of these players who got injured didn't have an injury history in college. So no I don't blame the management for not foreseeing the unforeseeable. And it has nothing to do with "fair." It has to do with you being ridiculous. Sometimes no one is to blame. You can't accept that. The same argument you are making the Nazis used for the Jews. Was it their fault that the German economy went in the crapper? No, but the Jews got blamed for it whether it was "fair" or not. Now obviously that example is an hyperbole. But it illustrates my point that assigning blame just for the sake of assigning blame is stupid, and often gets you into trouble.

...GMs and Coaches get fired all the time for being blamed on the "unforeseeable". Someone is always accountable. That's the truth... as I like to illustrate. lol.

And I pointed out to you we didn't overreach. Consensus was Jason Williams and Robert Brewster were third rounders. The only person you can legitimately say that we "reached" for was Victor Butler who most people had ranked a lot lower than where we drafted him. And look how that turned out. Furthermore, we needed all those players we drafted. We needed around 10 new players. OLB Brandon Williams being put on IR, necessitated us picking up OLB Curtis Johnson. Safety Deangelo Smith being cut necessitated us picking Safety Marvin White. Because of the lack of depth on this team (as last year's injuries showed) we didn't really have the luxury of packaging numerous picks to get a few potentially more talented players.

If you wanna say we didn't reach, you have a legitimate argument that I can start to believe. But it's still difficult for me to take Gosselin's big board for "the standard".

If you were expecting Hodge, Williams, and Brewster to making a significant contribution this year your expectations were way way way too high. Who is Hodge going to beat out: James or Brooking? Who is Williams going to beat out Ware or Spencer? Did you expect Brewster to beat out Colombo? They are rookies not Free agents. You don't seem to understand the difference.

It was clear we were looking for short term depth, impact on special teams (not Brewster lol) and starting potential for some down the line. That short term depth and impact on special teams is shot with those guys. Where did I ever say they were starters? Of course they're not good enough. We chose quantity over quality. Stop trying to pull stuff out of thin air and make it seem like I said such things. You don't seem to understand. Period.


I don't think this year's draft was great, but it was good and what this team needed. And The only guy that I thought that would make it and got cut was Deangelo Smith, so you are not really calling it as you are seeing it. You are just being ridiculous.

Ah, some retracting I see. Basically you were talking as if every player we drafted was a wise selection. That the draft was perfect... Now it's no longer great, just good. Finally, some sense I see. Maybe you are not the blind homer that I thought.

quincyyyyy
09-09-2009, 08:25 AM
Tell me what is ridiculous about saying this draft sucked when we had 12 picks and only 6 are on the 53 man roster on opening day? Great job you say? Sigh. There is a difference between wasted picks and busts. It's called draft value. But I guess that's what you want to fail to acknowledge. People usually do that when they're losing a debate. We got crap value out of our picks. How do you defend that? ..By saying my logic is screwed and avoiding the facts. That's how. lol. Terrible ... dare I say cowardly approach? I started off by saying we never maximized our draft assets. I stand by that point.


I have never said this draft was great. Maybe in your twisted little mind. And there is no loss in draft value for players who weren't going to have a chance of contributing beyond special teams due to injuries, which is what you fail to understand. Who exactly did you expect Brandon Williams, Robert Brewster, and Stephen Hodge to beat out? You have no clue what you are talking about. You apparently have little clue who the Cowboys starters are.




OK, so you think a year on PUP is the equivalent as a year of health and being on the team. :rolleyes:


Ok apparently you have no clue what PUP is. You don't sit out a year. Being clueless is becoming a theme in all your posts G-Unit.


Did I expect him to start? No. Did I expect that Proctor and McQuistan would start last year and that we'd have to trade for Holland too? No. We knew that this was going to be a development year for Brewster, but he's not even doing that. If you think reading the playbook is the equivalent then... :/

Again like I said when you are on PUP you are not out for a year. So you are not making any sense.

And Brewster was never going to beat out Holland for the backup guard spot. If Colombo went down this year Free would take over, and if any of the guards went down Holland would take over. Brewster had very little chance of playing this year anyhow.




...GMs and Coaches get fired all the time for being blamed on the "unforeseeable". Someone is always accountable. That's the truth... as I like to illustrate. lol.

And those organizations tend to be really crappy genius. Look at organizations like the Steelers who stick with their coaches through thick and thin, and look at organizations who have a high turnover rate because their owners fire their coaches at the drop of the hat. You want to blame Jerry for things beyond his control. Fine. But just know that is incredibly silly and it makes no sense.



If you wanna say we didn't reach, you have a legitimate argument that I can start to believe. But it's still difficult for me to take Gosselin's big board for "the standard".

Well almost every "Professional" draftnik takes it as the standard. Because Gosselin consistently has the best board year in and year out. That is because he forms is big boards based on talking to NFL GM and scouts and not his own personal preferences.


It was clear we were looking for short term depth, impact on special teams (not Brewster lol) and starting potential for some down the line. That short term depth and impact on special teams is shot with those guys. Where did I ever say they were starters? Of course they're not good enough. We chose quantity over quality. Stop trying to pull stuff out of thin air and make it seem like I said such things. You don't seem to understand. Period.

You are so upset that all of these rookies were going to miss time this year. For what reason? How were they going to contribute beyond special teams? Beyond beating out starters, you are not making any sense. Period.


Ah, some retracting I see. Basically you were talking as if every player we drafted was a wise selection. That the draft was perfect... Now it's no longer great, just good. Finally, some sense I see. Maybe you are not the blind homer that I thought.

Again don't put words in my mouth so you can erect strawmen because you can't address my argument. I didn't say it was perfect and I never said it was great. I merely said they didn't reach as you are contending, and bundling up picks to get four or five "better" players would have been stupid considering the lack of depth on this team. And considering the rash of injuries our rookies have been having it is not clear whether their would be any rookies healthy for the year and not on IR if Jerry did what you are proposing. I'm just glad he is the GM and not you.

D-Unit
09-09-2009, 01:31 PM
I have never said this draft was great. Maybe in your twisted little mind. And there is no loss in draft value for players who weren't going to have a chance of contributing beyond special teams due to injuries, which is what you fail to understand. Who exactly did you expect Brandon Williams, Robert Brewster, and Stephen Hodge to beat out? You have no clue what you are talking about. You apparently have little clue who the Cowboys starters are.

OK, so now there is a big difference between saying the draft was good versus great??? Let's get beyond symantics here. What is your reason for all your justification about how all the picks were the right picks made for the right reasons? If all the picks were the right decisions, then why the downgrade from calling it a great draft? I thought you said this is what we needed? Is it because now all of a sudden only 6 of the 12 are on the final active roster on opening day? :rolleyes:


How can you say there is no loss in draft value? Do you sit there today thinking that we have accummulated the same worth that matches the value of our draft assets going into the draft?

Don't try to suggest that I thought the guys we drafted were gonna be starters. That's what YOU were trying to tell ME! Outside of Jason Williams and David Buehler, I didn't expect any to be starters now or down the line. Bottom line is that now you're reaching while you keep sliding down that slippery slope. You thought more of them would make the team than did, and now you don't want to own up to it. Be a man. So now we come away with 6 guys on the final roster to start the season and you're trying to reach further by saying that Brewster on PUP is going to develop the same way as he would've have had he been healthy... AND you think he's gonna play this year? Clinging on to the depths of hopes... Need a hand up, buddy?


Ok apparently you have no clue what PUP is. You don't sit out a year. Being clueless is becoming a theme in all your posts G-Unit.

Again like I said when you are on PUP you are not out for a year. So you are not making any sense.

Grow up. The initial reports were out that he'd miss the season because of this injury. But since the Cowboys put him on PUP hoping that he'd still have a chance to play, you're now telling me that there's a good chance of him returning? Reaching is now your only theme in all your posts. He won't be ready in 6 weeks. Nor will he be ready in 9. Without training camp, regular practice, you think the team will put him on the active roster with a 3 week window to activate him? C'mon now.


And Brewster was never going to beat out Holland for the backup guard spot. If Colombo went down this year Free would take over, and if any of the guards went down Holland would take over. Brewster had very little chance of playing this year anyhow.

...and you were trying to convince me that he was a great 3rd round pick? You're doing me a favor by that comment of yours. Thanks. Now you understand my frustration. We'll see how much Preston plays this year because that's the playing time Brewster would've gotten.

And those organizations tend to be really crappy genius. Look at organizations like the Steelers who stick with their coaches through thick and thin, and look at organizations who have a high turnover rate because their owners fire their coaches at the drop of the hat. You want to blame Jerry for things beyond his control. Fine. But just know that is incredibly silly and it makes no sense.

You've become too used to making excuses for Jerry. I like the guy a lot, but he is not perfect. I commend him on good decisions and criticize him on bad ones. Neither a homer or a hater. Just calling it like I see it, when I see. I wouldn't want another owner in the league, but for me to praise his every move without good reason is not being honest with myself.

Well almost every "Professional" draftnik takes it as the standard. Because Gosselin consistently has the best board year in and year out. That is because he forms is big boards based on talking to NFL GM and scouts and not his own personal preferences.

I'll give him his due. He's earned that.

You are so upset that all of these rookies were going to miss time this year. For what reason? How were they going to contribute beyond special teams? Beyond beating out starters, you are not making any sense. Period.

First off special teams needed a boost, so don't discredit that for nothing. A big point being made post draft was all about how these guys would have their biggest impact on STs. Outside of that, I wanted them to provide depth. You also seem to want to say that's not important either. Your point is that if they don't start, then their contribution is insignificant. I totally disagree. Additionally, I wanted them to develop themselves and be ready for bigger and better things in years to come. I wanted them to be worthy of the draft picks we spent on them. Now their growth is stunted, replacements have been found and their future looks a lot less shimmery than the day we drafted them.

Again don't put words in my mouth so you can erect strawmen because you can't address my argument. I didn't say it was perfect and I never said it was great. I merely said they didn't reach as you are contending, and bundling up picks to get four or five "better" players would have been stupid considering the lack of depth on this team. And considering the rash of injuries our rookies have been having it is not clear whether their would be any rookies healthy for the year and not on IR if Jerry did what you are proposing. I'm just glad he is the GM and not you.

I didn't say they needed to trade picks to get four or five better players! Talk about putting words in other people's mouths... I think the value we got in return was much less than what we could've gotten. Period.

Thumper
09-09-2009, 04:43 PM
Only if he was as good a father as he is a coach:rolleyes:

McNabb is on the decline and Vick is not going to be the factor people think he will be coming out of Prison.

Plus Ware dominates Vick. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojp2DkYpw0U)

Wow way to take a cheap shot at Andy Reid, he is still better than Wade because last time I checked Wade Phillips is a big softy that lets players run all over him like he is a doormat, and Andy Reid is the second winningest active coach in the game that consistently puts out playoff caliber teams.

And McNabb is on the decline? Why don't you just scream you don't have any clue what you're talking about? Last year was one of his best years, he threw for a career high in yards, yes higher than the year with TO.

And congrats Ware stiff armed Vick, how well to you think a QB is going to tackle a LB that has about 50 pounds on him? Plus who cares about Vick? He will not be playing all that often and he will be used in gadget and wildcat plays. McNabb is the QB and he owns the Cowboys. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou0CDgm-9pA) :rolleyes: 44-6, I counter your homerism with homerism of my own.

Sniper
09-09-2009, 04:54 PM
- The D will suffer with all the FA losses.

Yes, "all" of those FA losses. Brian Dawkins and Sean Considine.

Sniper
09-09-2009, 04:55 PM
So he says. We don't know what really happened. It wouldn't be the first time McNabb towed the company line.

Also wouldn't be the first time you went against McNabb just because you don't like him.

Sniper
09-09-2009, 05:01 PM
And McNabb is on the decline? Why don't you just scream you don't have any clue what you're talking about? Last year was one of his best years, he threw for a career high in yards, yes higher than the year with TO.

Not the best stat to use to prove your point. McNabb threw the ball 571 times in '08 (a career-high) at a 6.9 ypa clip. He also had a 2.09 TD:INT ratio. By comparison, he threw the ball 469 times in 2004 at a 8.3 ypa clip. He also had a 3.875:1 (!!!) TD:INT ratio.

Thumper
09-09-2009, 05:16 PM
Not the best stat to use to prove your point. McNabb threw the ball 571 times in '08 (a career-high) at a 6.9 ypa clip. He also had a 2.09 TD:INT ratio. By comparison, he threw the ball 469 times in 2004 at a 8.3 ypa clip. He also had a 3.875:1 (!!!) TD:INT ratio.

True, but the main point I was trying to make is that McNabb had one of his best years last season and is not on the decline. I think that low YPA is due to the fact that the Eagles receivers were questionable last season with LJ Smith starting and having Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis step in in the absence of Kevin Curtis and the fact that DeSean Jackson was still young and developing.

I think the better stat is yards per completion because YPA also accounts for incompletions, drops, bad routes etc. etc. and there were quite a lot of those last season with injuries to Curtis, with Smith starting and DeSean only catching 55% of passes thrown his way. Expect that to go up as the sure handed Brent Celek starts at TE, Curtis is healthy and DeSean has a year under his belt.

quincyyyyy
09-09-2009, 06:59 PM
And McNabb is on the decline? Why don't you just scream you don't have any clue what you're talking about? Last year was one of his best years, he threw for a career high in yards, yes higher than the year with TO.



I don't have a clue? You are so obviously clueless. Mc-whine-a-lot had a QB rating of 104 the year he had T.O. I don't think that includes the superbowl game when he fell asleep on the field though. He had an 86 rating last year and was very hot and cold. Take off your blinders dude.


And congrats Ware stiff armed Vick, how well to you think a QB is going to tackle a LB that has about 50 pounds on him?

Ware also intercepted his pass on the same play home slice.



McNabb is the QB and he owns the Cowboys. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou0CDgm-9pA) :rolleyes: 44-6, I counter your homerism with homerism of my own.
Unfortunately for him, that and winning the NFC championship during a time when the NFC was awful is about all he has and ever will going for him. He will never win a long sought after Superbowl for your pitiful franchise.

quincyyyyy
09-09-2009, 07:28 PM
OK, so now there is a big difference between saying the draft was good versus great??? Let's get beyond symantics here. What is your reason for all your justification about how all the picks were the right picks made for the right reasons? If all the picks were the right decisions, then why the downgrade from calling it a great draft? I thought you said this is what we needed? Is it because now all of a sudden only 6 of the 12 are on the final active roster on opening day? :rolleyes:

Actually there is a significant difference between good and great. This is basic English dude.

It is hard to have a great draft when you don't draft until the third round, and two I didn't see many huge value gets besides Michael Hamlin.

the 6 of 12 on the opening active game day roster is a meaningless stat. It's meaningless because 1) I and most knowledgeable people don't expect mid to late round draft picks to contribute in any significant way in their rookie year. When they do then you can consider it a great draft. Secondly, 11 of the 12 rookies are under contract and will continue to develop under our auspices and will be in training camp next year.




How can you say there is no loss in draft value? Do you sit there today thinking that we have accummulated the same worth that matches the value of our draft assets going into the draft?
When you talk about draft value and good decision making in the draft room you don't talk about what happens after the draft already happen, that is absurd to fault the decision makers for future events. Draft value doesn't apply to what happens after they already got drafted. Your diction is all wrong, and you are trying to twist words to prove a bad point.



Don't try to suggest that I thought the guys we drafted were gonna be starters. That's what YOU were trying to tell ME! Outside of Jason Williams and David Buehler, I didn't expect any to be starters now or down the line. Bottom line is that now you're reaching while you keep sliding down that slippery slope. You thought more of them would make the team than did, and now you don't want to own up to it. Be a man. So now we come away with 6 guys on the final roster to start the season and you're trying to reach further by saying that Brewster on PUP is going to develop the same way as he would've have had he been healthy... AND you think he's gonna play this year? Clinging on to the depths of hopes... Need a hand up, buddy?

I thought two would be cut. Three were cut. Is that really something to beat your chest about?

And we are going to boot some scrub off the roster in 6 weeks to make room for Brewster. So discounting him as not making the team is really taking liberty with the facts. And I don't think Brewster is going to making any significant contribution to this team until 2-3 years from now. Lineman take awhile to develop, so saying he was a wasted pick because he was out for less than 3 months out of the 2-3 year it will take to develop him is just plain dumb.




...and you were trying to convince me that he was a great 3rd round pick? You're doing me a favor by that comment of yours. Thanks. Now you understand my frustration. We'll see how much Preston plays this year because that's the playing time Brewster would've gotten.


I'm trying to point out the fact we took him were he was supposed to go, so as a matter of fact saying he was a bad pick is silly. And you do realize that o-lineman don't rotate... Right?

And you obviously have little knowledge of our depth chart. Preston and Brewster would hardly compete with each other for playing time if an injury to a starter occurred. Preston is the prime backup at center and would only play guard if one of our starting guards got injured and Holland go injured. You show your obvious lack of knowledge of the Cowboys roster with that comment.




I didn't say they needed to trade picks to get four or five better players! Talk about putting words in other people's mouths... I think the value we got in return was much less than what we could've gotten. Period.

Then tell me what trades and what picks exactly did you want to give up.

scottyboy
09-09-2009, 08:38 PM
my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?

eaglesalltheway
09-09-2009, 09:30 PM
my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?

Put me under the group that agrees with scotty...

quincyyyyy
09-09-2009, 09:36 PM
my crystal ball says quincyyyyy won't be here to eat his crow mid-way through the season.

what? who said that?

Yes because you can judge a draft class halfway through their rookie year. Excellent point! [/sarcasm]

eaglesalltheway
09-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Yes because you can judge a draft class halfway through their rookie year. Excellent point! [/sarcasm]

Some people jsut don't get it... lol.

quincyyyyy
09-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Some people jsut don't get it... lol.

I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.

Thumper
09-09-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't have a clue? You are so obviously clueless. Mc-whine-a-lot had a QB rating of 104 the year he had T.O. I don't think that includes the superbowl game when he fell asleep on the field though. He had an 86 rating last year and was very hot and cold. Take off your blinders dude.

Ware also intercepted his pass on the same play home slice.


Unfortunately for him, that and winning the NFC championship during a time when the NFC was awful is about all he has and ever will going for him. He will never win a long sought after Superbowl for your pitiful franchise.

Mc-whine-a-lot? Please, once again clueless. And did I ever say he played better last year than he did with TO? No, I said he had more passing yards which is a fairly large difference. But fact is that you're telling me that a QB coming off of his 2nd or 3rd best career season is on the decline which he clearly is not. Please if you're going to bash the Eagles at least be reasonable and back your stuff up with logic instead of just spewing useless ****.

And again, why does Vick matter? He isn't starting, McNabb is. Plus that is one play who cares? If one play made a player, Freddie Mitchell and David Tyree would be hall of famers. How can you say that Ware dominates Vick based on one play and then to make you look even stupider he was on a completely different team? Please try again.

Pitiful franchise? Please leave now, the Eagles' pathetic franchise has actually won a playoff game (10 of them to be exact) in the past 14 years unlike the Cowboys who have a grand total of 0. And I'm glad to know you can tell the future, can you tell me the lottery numbers?

D-Unit
09-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Actually there is a significant difference between good and great. This is basic English dude.

It is hard to have a great draft when you don't draft until the third round, and two I didn't see many huge value gets besides Michael Hamlin.

Haha. OK, that first part was funny. Made me laugh. You're right there's a difference, but in context to our discussions you lead people to believe everything the Cowboys did in the draft was so damn great. I guess I just gotta realize there is less emphasis in your points than you lead on.

I agree it's tough to have a great draft when you start picking in the 3rd. But who put us in that situation? We had a pick in Round 2 and already it looks like we made the wrong move by trading down. Did you like that move?

the 6 of 12 on the opening active game day roster is a meaningless stat. It's meaningless because 1) I and most knowledgeable people don't expect mid to late round draft picks to contribute in any significant way in their rookie year. When they do then you can consider it a great draft. Secondly, 11 of the 12 rookies are under contract and will continue to develop under our auspices and will be in training camp next year.

I didn't expect the real results of this draft to show until a few years from now, but it's already looking bad. You can try to sugar coat it all you want, but I wasn't expecting it to look this bad so soon. I know that these guys weren't gonna be asked to make significant impacts this year. Heck, our first pick, Jason Williams would be fighting for the nickel LB spot. But to say it doesn't matter that they're injured, or to infer that they are still on the same development path and that there is no difference with them being on or off the active team roster (for as long as they are expected to be out) is the same thing is just being ignorant. The time loss hurts the team, hurts them and often times hurts their future with the team. ...and it makes us look like we wasted a pick taking them when we did. As far as the future for Brewster, B. Williams and Hodge goes, it's a whole lot different now than the day we drafted them. The longer they are out, the more likelihood of them being replaced permanently.

When you talk about draft value and good decision making in the draft room you don't talk about what happens after the draft already happen, that is absurd to fault the decision makers for future events. Draft value doesn't apply to what happens after they already got drafted. Your diction is all wrong, and you are trying to twist words to prove a bad point.

I agree and disagree. I agree draft pick value is relative to time. However, I don't agree that the decision makers are free of blame to the players they draft because the future is unforeseeable. Bill Parcells gets hammered for drafting Jacob Rogers. He didn't foresee that, but it's the truth to what happens in real life. Now Brewster, Williams and Hodge are in the same boat Rogers was in. We'll see how their futures unfold, but it ain't looking pretty.

I thought two would be cut. Three were cut. Is that really something to beat your chest about?

Ah you only thought Manny would be cut. You posted that 53 man roster with everyone except Brewster and Johnson. Just admit you were wrong. I'm wrong all the time. You don't have to act like Mr. Perfect. Just makes you look like a fool.

And we are going to boot some scrub off the roster in 6 weeks to make room for Brewster. So discounting him as not making the team is really taking liberty with the facts. And I don't think Brewster is going to making any significant contribution to this team until 2-3 years from now. Lineman take awhile to develop, so saying he was a wasted pick because he was out for less than 3 months out of the 2-3 year it will take to develop him is just plain dumb.

If Brewster is on the active roster in 6 weeks, I'll give you your due. ...and I'll feel better about Brewster's future on the club. As for his role in 2-3 years, there is high hope for him to be of starting material.

I'm trying to point out the fact we took him were he was supposed to go, so as a matter of fact saying he was a bad pick is silly. And you do realize that o-lineman don't rotate... Right?

The view from your high horse must be nice. Next thing you're gonna say is that the football is not round so you can feel good about yourself. ha.

And you obviously have little knowledge of our depth chart. Preston and Brewster would hardly compete with each other for playing time if an injury to a starter occurred. Preston is the prime backup at center and would only play guard if one of our starting guards got injured and Holland go injured. You show your obvious lack of knowledge of the Cowboys roster with that comment.

I was wrong there. Honestly, I don't know how Preston will fit in. I initially thought he'd give Proctor the boot, but he didn't. He came in so late, and I haven't followed him as closely. Guess I obviously lack any knowledge of the Cowboys. hahaha.

Then tell me what trades and what picks exactly did you want to give up.

I would've kept 51 to start off with and go with Jaron Gilbert, Sean Smith, Phil Loadholt, Paul Kruger... just to name a few. Rather have that than a broke ass Brewster and Brandon Williams.

scottyboy
09-09-2009, 10:10 PM
I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.

no, i don't give a rats ass about the Cowboys and their crappy draft. I'm implying that when all the other predictions you're saying and all the other nonsense you're spewing hit the fan and come back at you, you'll run like...like...i'm too tired for a hilarious analogy, but yea, you won't be here.

eaglesalltheway
09-09-2009, 10:35 PM
I understand he was implying that I will be given the boot. But also implicit in his post is the false premise that you can judge a draft class half way through their rookie season, which is a pretty absurd and clueless statement to say the least. And the fact you agree with him on that point is pretty sad.

You know what's sad...




You still didn't get it...

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 07:04 AM
Mc-whine-a-lot? Please, once again clueless. And did I ever say he played better last year than he did with TO? No, I said he had more passing yards which is a fairly large difference. But fact is that you're telling me that a QB coming off of his 2nd or 3rd best career season is on the decline which he clearly is not. Please if you're going to bash the Eagles at least be reasonable and back your stuff up with logic instead of just spewing useless ****.

And again, why does Vick matter? He isn't starting, McNabb is. Plus that is one play who cares? If one play made a player, Freddie Mitchell and David Tyree would be hall of famers. How can you say that Ware dominates Vick based on one play and then to make you look even stupider he was on a completely different team? Please try again.

Pitiful franchise? Please leave now, the Eagles' pathetic franchise has actually won a playoff game (10 of them to be exact) in the past 14 years unlike the Cowboys who have a grand total of 0. And I'm glad to know you can tell the future, can you tell me the lottery numbers?

Are you saying McNappy doesn't whine a lot?

'04 he had a 105 QB rating
'05 he had an 85 QB rating and was out half the season with an injury
'06 he had a 95 rating
'07 he had a 90 rating
'08 he had an 86 rating

That is certainly a downward trend and a sign of a declining player past his prime. Man you are clueless

We haven't won a playoff game in the arbitrary timeline you made (14 years) but we have won loads of others before that. However, the Eagles franchise has never won a superbowl. Not one. That is pitiful.

eaglesalltheway
09-10-2009, 07:19 AM
Are you saying McNappy doesn't whine a lot?

'04 he had a 105 QB rating
'05 he had an 85 QB rating and was out half the season with an injury
'06 he had a 95 rating
'07 he had a 90 rating
'08 he had an 86 rating

That is certainly a downward trend and a sign of a declining player past his prime. Man you are clueless

We haven't won a playoff game in the arbitrary timeline you made (14 years) but we have won loads of others before that. However, the Eagles franchise has never won a superbowl. Not one. That is pitiful.

You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination. Brian Westbrook has a 153.8 QB rating, which is perfect. Should he be our starting QB?

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 10:43 AM
You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually it is pretty reliable, which is why all the QB's with ratings over 90 are considered good. Moreover, I watch the games and Mcnappy was hot and cold last year and on the decline. Those are the facts.

Brian Westbrook has a 153.8 QB rating, which is perfect. Should he be our starting QB?
How many attempts did he have? If the sample size is extremely small you are going to have an extremely large margin of error. That is how statistics work. And thus in that instance it wouldn't be reliable. But since McNappy has a large sample size it would be reliable.

Brothgar
09-10-2009, 10:48 AM
You are basing this argumant solely (or at least sginificantly off of QB rating...? Listen man, stats only tell a part of the picture, and QB rating isn't the most reliable way to gauge a QBs play by any stretch of the imagination.
Actually it is pretty reliable, which is why all the QB's with ratings over 90 are considered good. Moreover, I watch the games and Mcnappy was hot and cold last year and on the decline. Those are the facts.


How many attempts did he have? If the sample size is extremely small you are going to have an extremely large margin of error. That is how statistics work. And thus in that instance it wouldn't be reliable. But since McNappy has a large sample size it would be reliable.

Well I'm not going to say I disagree with everything you've been saying I'm the biggest McNabb hater on the board and now there is someone who agrees with me. That said QB rating is not an accurate designate on its own. I mean Jeff Garcia was a top 10 in rating last season and now he's out of the league.

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 10:52 AM
Well I'm not going to say I disagree with everything you've been saying I'm the biggest McNabb hater on the board and now there is someone who agrees with me. That said QB rating is not an accurate designate on its own. I mean Jeff Garcia was a top 10 in rating last season and now he's out of the league.

Garcia is a good QB in the right system; I'm not sure that Oakland's offense plays to his strength. Moreover, it is debatable whether Russell was really better than Garcia or they thought Russell was good enough and showed enough development to give him the starter's job.

Brothgar
09-10-2009, 11:11 AM
Garcia is a good QB in the right system; I'm not sure that Oakland's offense plays to his strength. Moreover, it is debatable whether Russell was really better than Garcia or they thought Russell was good enough and showed enough development to give him the starter's job.

Granted but I'm saying that if he was a top 10 QB in any scheme. He would have at least a back up role somewhere.

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 11:50 AM
Granted but I'm saying that if he was a top 10 QB in any scheme. He would have at least a back up role somewhere.

From my understanding Garcia was disgruntled when he didn't get the starting job, which led to him being cut. I don't think it had anything to do with his abilities. Moreover, I don't think a team is going to pick up a 39 year old QB who already made it known he does not want to be a backup.

Brothgar
09-10-2009, 12:08 PM
From my understanding Garcia was disgruntled when he didn't get the starting job, which led to him being cut. I don't think it had anything to do with his abilities. Moreover, I don't think a team is going to pick up a 39 year old QB who already made it known he does not want to be a backup.

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/upload/image/brett-favre-vikings.jpg

Oh Hai!

eaglesalltheway
09-10-2009, 12:17 PM
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/upload/image/brett-favre-vikings.jpg

Oh Hai!

Just out of suriosity, where did your McNabb hate start?

Just wondering...

Edit, why did I quote this...? lol

Brothgar
09-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Just out of suriosity, where did your McNabb hate start?

Just wondering...

Edit, why did I quote this...? lol

I can't really pin point where it started. It might have been three mid late season injuries. Might have been the TO incident and no one was giving him his rightful part of the blame. I was really angry when he came out on ESPN and whined about how it was so much harder being a black QB in the league at a time when he was sucking it up. Mama McNabb's bitter sweet comment about Garcia leading the Eagles to the playoffs. All of it added fuel to the fire.

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 01:06 PM
Oh Hai!

:rolleyes: Well Garcia is no Favre I'll admit that; even though I do think Favre is a bit overrated.

Brothgar
09-10-2009, 01:09 PM
:rolleyes: Well Garcia is no Favre I'll admit that; even though I do think Favre is a bit overrated.

My point exactly but Garcia's QB rating was almost 10 points higher than Favre.

eaglesalltheway
09-10-2009, 01:14 PM
I can't really pin point where it started. It might have been three mid late season injuries. Might have been the TO incident and no one was giving him his rightful part of the blame. I was really angry when he came out on ESPN and whined about how it was so much harder being a black QB in the league at a time when he was sucking it up. Mama McNabb's bitter sweet comment about Garcia leading the Eagles to the playoffs. All of it added fuel to the fire.

I can understand not liking him complaining about being a black QB, but really, all of those other things are out of his control, but its fine, I won't try to change your mind, as I'm sure I would waste my time, lol. Its just something I've been wondering for a while...

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 02:39 PM
My point exactly but Garcia's QB rating was almost 10 points higher than Favre.

Favre also didn't have a great season last year, he had a bunch of good games early on then really struggled down the stretch. So his 81 QB rating was well deserved.

D-Unit
09-10-2009, 03:10 PM
This thread is so off the subject.

I'm curious to know if you have any NFC East predictions quincy.

quincyyyyy
09-10-2009, 07:50 PM
This thread is so off the subject.

I'm curious to know if you have any NFC East predictions quincy.

I think the Cowboys are a very good team not necessarily a great team, but I don't think the Giants and Eagles are as good as everyone is making them out to be. So I think the Cowboys will win the division because Eagles and Giants are overrated.

Sniper
09-10-2009, 08:16 PM
Eagles 16-0
Giants 4-12
Cowboys 2-14
Redskins 0-16

Looks good to me. :D

Eagles
Cowboys
Giants
Redskins

is my actual order.

FUNBUNCHER
09-11-2009, 04:42 AM
What have the Cowboys done in recent years to warrant all this love??

They are the definition of chokers/underachievers, and won't win big again until Jerrah brings in a new HC.

IMO Dallas struggles to to reach 9-7 this year. 8-8 is more likely.

scottyboy
09-11-2009, 11:18 AM
What have the Cowboys done in recent years to warrant all this love??

They are the definition of chokers/underachievers, and won't win big again until Jerrah brings in a new HC.

IMO Dallas struggles to to reach 9-7 this year. 8-8 is more likely.

because you're looking at predictions from cowboys fans and one of the biggest Eli haters on the planet. I love sniper, but he hates Eli to no end.

Sniper
09-11-2009, 11:23 AM
because you're looking at predictions from cowboys fans and one of the biggest Eli haters on the planet. I love sniper, but he hates Eli to no end.

I just think he's massively overrated by the Giants' fans on here. He also hasn't proven he can consistently spread the ball around without Plaxico there to take a safety out of the box. I don't think Dallas will be that good, but I do think they'll be better than NY. I also think everyone will beat each other once.

scottyboy
09-11-2009, 11:30 AM
I just think he's massively overrated by the Giants' fans on here. He also hasn't proven he can consistently spread the ball around without Plaxico there to take a safety out of the box. I don't think Dallas will be that good, but I do think they'll be better than NY. I also think everyone will beat each other once.

He is over-rated, but most of us here don't view him as a god and top 5 QB. He's in the upper half of the league around 10-14 range of QB's.

He hasn't had to spread the ball around without Plax, which is why he hasn't proved it. He used to just heave it up to Plax, but of course he hasn't proven he can do it, he had plax except for what? His rookie year and the last few games of last season. People look to that, but many don't understand the rythm and timing that a QB and WR need. 5 weeks is hardly enough, with gameplanning and all that jazz.

Our D, run game and OL alone will power us to be better than Dallas. I'm shocked you have them over us, I thought you were better than that. Talking about proven, Romo loses his best WR like Eli and that puts them above us? How's that make sense?

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:00 PM
Scott has Dallas in the Super Bowl in his blog prediction. Woot!!!!

Right now, I'm guessing either Philly or NY will have a major let down. I can't figure out who yet. NY with their weak/young receiving corps? Or Philly with their overrated/injured OL, old/recent surgically repaired leg on Westbrook, and Bradley gone down? In my predictions I have NY winning the division by 1 game and Dallas in 2nd. Philly... then Washington.

Philly is the biggest choke team of all time. I still love Creekeagle's sig "THIS IS OUR YEAR!" hahahahhahahaha. Love that guy. Miss his funny commentary.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:01 PM
He is over-rated, but most of us here don't view him as a god and top 5 QB. He's in the upper half of the league around 10-14 range of QB's.

He hasn't had to spread the ball around without Plax, which is why he hasn't proved it. He used to just heave it up to Plax, but of course he hasn't proven he can do it, he had plax except for what? His rookie year and the last few games of last season. People look to that, but many don't understand the rythm and timing that a QB and WR need. 5 weeks is hardly enough, with gameplanning and all that jazz.

Our D, run game and OL alone will power us to be better than Dallas. I'm shocked you have them over us, I thought you were better than that. Talking about proven, Romo loses his best WR like Eli and that puts them above us? How's that make sense?
Honestly I think your D is overrated. Your LBs don't scare anyone. Many people are calling you guys as the #1 Defense. I honestly think Washington has a better defense. What makes your team good is that they have always played "team ball" and the chemistry has carried you through as you played above your capabilities. The exact opposite of Dallas in the past.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2009, 03:02 PM
What have the Cowboys done in recent years to warrant all this love??

They are the definition of chokers/underachievers, and won't win big again until Jerrah brings in a new HC.

IMO Dallas struggles to to reach 9-7 this year. 8-8 is more likely.

I would wholeheartedly agree to this.

Dallas wins 8 games, and loses all 4 in december.

Sniper
09-11-2009, 03:03 PM
Honestly I think your D is overrated. Your LBs don't scare anyone. Many people are calling you guys as the #1 Defense. I honestly think Washington has a better defense.

LBs are the most interchangeable parts in that defense. They're really not that highly valued. Their defensive lines and secondary are very good.

Sniper
09-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Philly is the biggest choke team of all time.

They sure looked like it in the "win and you're in" game last year.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:19 PM
LBs are the most interchangeable parts in that defense. They're really not that highly valued. Their defensive lines and secondary are very good.
Point valid, but let's not be so quick to shove aside their importance. So back to my point, they are not the #1 defense (not even Top 3) and are overrated. I'm sure you agree.

I'm really interested to see how they stack up against the new short pass focus Dallas has implemented and another year of Washington being in the WCO. We're gonna dink and dunk until they bite and then hurt em deep. I don't see how the LBs are going to win battles against Witten and Bennett or the RBs out of the backfield all game long.

Is Canty healthy? What's his status?

Giantsfan1080
09-11-2009, 03:21 PM
Canty hasn't been on the injury list all week. Also, don't forget we signed Boley for just the reasons you mentioned D-Unit.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:21 PM
They sure looked like it in the "win and you're in" game last year.
The one you guys had AT HOME? lol. If Romo wasn't out for a month, that game would've been meaningless. ...and you guys didn't capitalize, so Philly can still be known as Choke City USA.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Canty hasn't been on the injury list all week.
Good news for Giants fans. He's a good run stuffer.

Sniper
09-11-2009, 03:30 PM
The one you guys had AT HOME? lol. If Romo wasn't out for a month, that game would've been meaningless. ...and you guys didn't capitalize, so Philly can still be known as Choke City USA.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all be fat and jolly. I'm sorry for discarding Tony Romo's legendary clutch ability. It won't happen again.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 03:53 PM
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all be fat and jolly. I'm sorry for discarding Tony Romo's legendary clutch ability. It won't happen again.
Remember when Peyton Manning "couldn't win the big one"? Yeah, people who criticize a QB's talent based off what the team has accomplished think Dan Marino is worse than Eli Manning.

Dallas lost. Badly. But when it comes to losing in the playoffs, you guys have got to be the champs at that. The team has let you down over and over and over, and I credit you for your belief that this will finally be your season. But I bet you would give up all your playoff wins for 1 ring. Maybe you don't think losing in the playoffs is choking... Is that it? You consider it SUCCESS!!!....??? You glory in that??? You find peace and satisfaction in it???

The Eagles fan base has completely brain washed themselves into thinking that playoff wins mean a damn just to save their own sanity from year to year and that is just sad and distorted. Now go home and cry!

2nd place is just as good as last when it comes to what really matters. Last year, we were in the same boat. The only tangible difference was a separation of 8 picks in the draft. Congratulations.

Sniper
09-11-2009, 04:00 PM
The Eagles fan base has completely brain washed themselves into thinking that playoff wins mean a damn just to save their own sanity from year to year and that is just sad and distorted.

If you're going to accuse someone of something, please do make an effort to be accurate. I've said that playoff wins don't matter unless you get the last one many times.

Now go home and cry!

What are you, six?

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:04 PM
You now what else is sad? That Dallas fans have convinced themselves that playoff wins mean nothing. Basically what you just said is you would rather lose for 14 straight years in the playoffs than win 10 games and make 5 NFC Championship games. Somehow, I don't believe that, sure a superbowl win would be great but you can't discredit wins in do or die situations just because they haven't won the big one, 10 games > 0 games.

With that logic last years Patriots were as good as the Lions because neither made the playoffs.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:04 PM
If you're going to accuse someone of something, please do make an effort to be accurate. I've said that playoff wins don't matter unless you get the last one many times.



What are you, six?
Sniper you know I love jabbing you and you do the same, so let's not get all serious all of a sudden. I can't talk like that to most people. That's why I like you. ;)

Eagles kicked our ass fair and share and I'm quite certain I called Romo the second coming of Jake Delhomme after that game. Pissed the freakin' hell outta me.

...But you guys are still Choke City, USA! :D

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:12 PM
...But you guys are still Choke City, USA! :D

http://ladiesdotdotdot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/romo-fumble.jpg

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Dallas+Cowboys+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+grps9zRVUTDl. jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/13/sports/14giants_slide1.jpg

you were saying... :D

Brothgar
09-11-2009, 04:13 PM
You now what else is sad? That Dallas fans have convinced themselves that playoff wins mean nothing. Basically what you just said is you would rather lose for 14 straight years in the playoffs than win 10 games and make 5 NFC Championship games. Somehow, I don't believe that, sure a superbowl win would be great but you can't discredit wins in do or die situations just because they haven't won the big one, 10 games > 0 games.

With that logic last years Patriots were as good as the Lions because neither made the playoffs.

At least we got there the theme song of the Philadelphia Eagles. Don't get me wrong even a winning season is a distant memory for my Detroit Lions. But seriously at whatever point you actually win the big one you will know how silly at least we got there really is.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:13 PM
You now what else is sad? That Dallas fans have convinced themselves that playoff wins mean nothing. Basically what you just said is you would rather lose for 14 straight years in the playoffs than win 10 games and make 5 NFC Championship games. Somehow, I don't believe that, sure a superbowl win would be great but you can't discredit wins in do or die situations just because they haven't won the big one, 10 games > 0 games.

With that logic last years Patriots were as good as the Lions because neither made the playoffs.
This is exactly what I mean by brain washed. ^^^

Playoff wins are only great if it takes you all the way. There's no glory in coming up short. Only more pain.

Besides, of course I think playoff wins are meaningless all alone.

How can you blame me???

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3301451155_fb89601a99.jpg

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:15 PM
At least we got there the theme song of the Philadelphia Eagles. Don't get me wrong even a winning season is a distant memory for my Detroit Lions. But seriously at whatever point you actually win the big one you will know how silly at least we got there really is.

That is more than the Cowboys can say. You're right, I would absolutely love to win the big one but we haven't but that doesn't discredit the post-season successes the Eagles have had, which is far more than the Cowboys or any other team in the NFC this decade. Not winning the big one does not mean that 10 postseason wins are tossed out the window.

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:15 PM
you were saying... :D

Yes Romo is a horrible place holder. You got us there. I guess he'll have to settle for just being a quarterback. Good one.

And in the last picture it was 4th down with no time left. Romo had no other choice but to throw it up for grabs because no one was getting open. So unless you know nothing about football I would hardly say he was choking there.

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:18 PM
This is exactly what I mean by brain washed. ^^^

Playoff wins are only great if it takes you all the way. There's no glory in coming up short. Only more pain.

Besides, of course I think playoff wins are meaningless all alone.

How can you blame me???


They cling to their "playoff wins" because that is all they have. After winning five superbowls anything less is a disappointment. Eagles are just a pathetic franchise so they wouldn't know any better.

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:20 PM
This is exactly what I mean by brain washed. ^^^

Playoff wins are only great if it takes you all the way. There's no glory in coming up short. Only more pain.

Besides, of course I think playoff wins are meaningless all alone.

How can you blame me???

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3301451155_fb89601a99.jpg

Those are nice and... irrelevant. Congrats the last time you won something in the playoffs was 15 seasons ago, BRAVO! BRAVO! Maybe Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin can lead you to another superbowl. Oh wait...

Here is the question would you rather have 10 post season wins and 5 NFC Championship games or would you rather make the playoffs twice in 14 years and have 0 wins? If you tell me you would rather have the latter you are lying.

The Eagles haven't won the big one but at least they can say they've done something in 14 years, at least they've made it to the big game in 14 years which is much more than the Cowboys can say. You cannot discredit 10 wins.

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:21 PM
What have the Cowboys done in recent years to warrant all this love??

They have had winning seasons for the past 4 years.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
http://ladiesdotdotdot.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/romo-fumble.jpg

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Dallas+Cowboys+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+grps9zRVUTDl. jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/01/13/sports/14giants_slide1.jpg

you were saying... :D
This has officially become the best TRASH talking NFC East thread in existence. :D

Dallas Cowboys
http://dallascowboys.designbypam.com/artwork/5-Superbowls.jpg

New York Giants
http://www.ridingtherim.com/Super%20Bowl%20trophies.JPG

Washington Redskins
http://media.thatsracin.com/smedia/2009/08/15/15/484-6353016.standalone.prod_affiliate.158.JPG

Philadelphia Eagles
http://hoboken411.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/philadelphia-eagles-cartoon-shaving-until-super-bowl.jpg



Yes, I was saying.... :D

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Those are nice and... irrelevant. .

Superbowl wins are irrelevant? Jealous much? :rolleyes:

Being a football fan is not just about who has the better team any given year. Being a football fan is about being a fan of the franchise past present and future. You are just deluded. You could only wish you had as many superbowl trophies as we do. But unfortunately for you the Eagles will never get that many. It is doubtful whether they will get any.

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Superbowl wins are irrelevant? Jealous much? :rolleyes:

Being a football fan is not just about who has the better team any given year. Being a football fan is about being a fan of the franchise past present and future. You are just deluded. You could only wish you had as many superbowl trophies as we do. But unfortunately for you the Eagles will never get that many. It is doubtful whether they will get any.

Please stop replying to me, I could give a **** about what you have to say. There is a reason you have that many red bars beneath your name...

Here let me explain why they are irrelevant in this discussion, we're discussing teams THIS YEAR. Wait what's that? You're telling me those were all won over 14 years ago? You're telling me that not one of those players are currently on the roster? You mean to tell me that unless we're discussing team history, they're irrelevant? Yes, yes I am. Not knocking it because I would love to have one of those but we aren't discussing teams from the early 90's are we? Didn't think we were.

and once again I'm glad to know you can tell the future.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Those are nice and... irrelevant. Congrats the last time you won something in the playoffs was 15 seasons ago, BRAVO! BRAVO! Maybe Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin can lead you to another superbowl. Oh wait...

Here is the question would you rather have 10 post season wins and 5 NFC Championship games or would you rather make the playoffs twice in 14 years and have 0 wins? If you tell me you would rather have the latter you are lying.

The Eagles haven't won the big one but at least they can say they've done something in 14 years, at least they've made it to the big game in 14 years which is much more than the Cowboys can say. You cannot discredit 10 wins.
Sure, if you only wanna go back so far, I would take your success. But is tunnel vision your only solice? It's the big picture that matters buddy. That's why the Steelers are the greatest football franchise in the NFL and every other team is really just chasing them after last year.

Giantsfan1080
09-11-2009, 04:33 PM
It seems like the Giants have the best of both worlds right now, making the playoffs consistently and winning a Super Bowl in that time.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:34 PM
Superbowl wins are irrelevant? Jealous much? :rolleyes:

Being a football fan is not just about who has the better team any given year. Being a football fan is about being a fan of the franchise past present and future. You are just deluded. You could only wish you had as many superbowl trophies as we do. But unfortunately for you the Eagles will never get that many. It is doubtful whether they will get any.
Whether we agree or disagree... You always crack me up quincy.

Can't wait for the season to start already!!!!

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:35 PM
It seems like the Giants have the best of both worlds right now, making the playoffs consistently and winning a Super Bowl in that time.
That's why I have you winning the division. Hopefully it doesn't happen!

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Please stop replying to me, I could give a **** about what you have to say. There is a reason you have that many red bars beneath your name...

Wow I must be really owning you for you to cry uncle like that...


Here let me explain why they are irrelevant in this discussion, we're discussing teams THIS YEAR. Wait what's that? You're telling me those were all won over 14 years ago? You're telling me that not one of those players are currently on the roster? You mean to tell me that unless we're discussing team history, they're irrelevant? Yes, yes I am. Not knocking it because I would love to have one of those but we aren't discussing teams from the early 90's are we? Didn't think we were.


Well we didn't just win superbowls in the 90's. Ever heard of Tom Landry? Anyhow, this whole thread has gone off on any number of topics, so I could care less about you whining in bold and all caps. Our team is the better franchise overall and you know it and there is nothing you can do to change that.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:41 PM
I have a feeling this season is gonna be real harsh on a few of us. :p


...outside of the humbled Redskins fans out there. WE LOVE YOU!

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Sure, if you only wanna go back so far, I would take your success. But is tunnel vision your only solice? It's the big picture that matters buddy. That's why the Steelers are the greatest football franchise in the NFL and every other team is really just chasing them after last year.

I see what you're saying and honestly I think we're just seeing the issue differently. You think the past matters and I think it has no relevance if it hasn't been done recently. I think either argument can be argued, and I think we're both right in a way.

The Steelers were great and still are great and that is why teams are following their model.

But I think you would REALLY be pushing it if you tried to tell me that the Eagles were chasing the 49ers who I believe have 5 superbowl wins as well.

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Sure, if you only wanna go back so far, I would take your success. But is tunnel vision your only solice? It's the big picture that matters buddy. That's why the Steelers are the greatest football franchise in the NFL and every other team is really just chasing them after last year.

Steelers win by playing dirty and the zebras could care less. Harrison should have been thrown out of the game for beating the crap out of that defenseless Cardinal player when he went into his roid rage. If the refs did their job Harrison would have never had that pick and the Cardinals would have won the superbowl.

Thumper
09-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Wow I must be really owning you for you to cry uncle like that...

Well we didn't just win superbowls in the 90's. Ever heard of Tom Landry? Anyhow, this whole thread has gone off on any number of topics, so I could care less about you whining in bold and all caps. Our team is the better franchise overall and you know it and there is nothing you can do to change that.

http://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gifhttp://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gifhttp://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif

A. I don't care to argue with someone like you so please... stop wasting both our time.
B. Yes I have heard of Landry, and did he not win his over 14 years ago? :rolleyes:
C. Yes, you have more superbowl wins but that does not make you a better team this year, and that does not make the Eagles pitiful.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Steelers win by playing dirty and the zebras could care less. Harrison should have been thrown out of the game for beating the crap out of that defenseless Cardinal player when he went into his roid rage. If the refs did their job Harrison would have never had that pick and the Cardinals would have won the superbowl.
That... AND Franco Harris will lie through his teeth telling you the ball DIDN'T touch the ground.

quincyyyyy
09-11-2009, 04:48 PM
http://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gifhttp://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gifhttp://www.tamemymind.com/blog/images2007/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif

A. I don't care to argue with someone like you so please... stop wasting both our time.
B. Yes I have heard of Landry, and did he not win his over 14 years ago? :rolleyes:
C. Yes, you have more superbowl wins but that does not make you a better team this year, and that does not make the Eagles pitiful.

Eagles have been playing since the Superbowl's inception, and has never won one. I'm pretty sure that would make any team pitiful.

D-Unit
09-11-2009, 04:56 PM
OK OK OK OK ok ok ok.....

For this season, I think the Eagles expecting big things is a bit premature. Their weapons are young. The future is bright, but patience will be key.

Giants have some figuring out to do as far as who will step up and fill big shoes, but so do the Cowboys... in both cases, I think players WILL step up.

Redskins... um... just hang in there until Colt is the starter. (Hopefully Brennan and not McCoy) :p

FUNBUNCHER
09-13-2009, 12:58 PM
Over the last decade, here's how I rank the NFCE;

#1 - Giants. Philly may have more playoff wins/appearances, but the Giants trump them with 2 NFC championships and winning the Lombardi.

#2 - Eagles. Have won more games and done just about everything in the postseason except bring home the silver trophy.

#3 - Redskins. We aren't dragging the caboose only because we have more playoff wins in the last 10 years than Dallas.

# 4 Dallas. Who cares? They still have 5 SB trophies and I believe more SB appearances than any team in the league. Last 10 years have been something of a dry spell, but that should be fixed with a new HC. Shanny anyone??

PACKmanN
10-13-2009, 10:15 AM
lol D-Unit you better hope that o-line remains heathly and somehow can stop speed rushers off the edge.

I see the Giants domnating the entire NFC, 12-4/14-2. The second team will be the Eagles with a 11-5/10-6 record, the talent they have on the skill postions, and trenches, are too deep to not have success. The loses of their MLB and Johnson will lose them some games though. Next, the Cowboys. I believe they lose more then gained anything in an already weak front 7. A lot of questions remain on that offense so I see them going 8-9/7-9. The Redskins spent too much money on less players; the o-line isn't depenable to help out Portis and their passing attack can not dominate games, because of poor QB play. The defense is full of what ifs and not much depth behind the starters, so i predict a 6-10/4-12 season.
I am perfect ;)