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Splat
09-11-2009, 11:04 AM
Appeals court: Vikings DEs can play (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-nflsuspensions&prov=ap&type=lgns)

MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—A federal appeals court says the NFL can’t suspend Minnesota Vikings (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/min/;_ylt=Al1mcfRmXMIn8nmtQhSxYfUdsLYF) Pat Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4117/;_ylt=AqnW7jd5zWL0pfUUsVhheAAdsLYF) and Kevin Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6345/;_ylt=AugtVuLE3i6nQTzheDqj3CAdsLYF) for violating the league’s anti-doping policy.

The decision came Friday, two days before the Viking open the season at Cleveland. The NFL had cleared the two to play Sunday, but the court fight was still pending.

The NFL wanted to suspend the Williamses for four games after they both tested positive for a banned diuretic during training camp in 2008.

They had taken the over-the-counter weight loss supplement StarCaps. It did not state on the label that it contained the diuretic—which can mask the presence of steroids.

Neither player tested positive for steroids.

the_legend_killer
09-11-2009, 11:06 AM
Alas, you beat me by a minute :). Mods, can you delete my thread?


Also, big (no pun intended) win for the Vikings.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2009, 11:06 AM
BOOOO.

i'm not happy.

Splat
09-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Jared Allen is happy.

the_legend_killer
09-11-2009, 11:09 AM
All of Viking Nation is happy. I'm sure ESPN will do a story on how Brett Favre is happy, lol. But seriously, this is a big time break for the Vikings.

marshallb
09-11-2009, 11:14 AM
All of Viking Nation is happy. I'm sure ESPN will do a story on how Brett Favre is happy, lol. But seriously, this is a big time break for the Vikings.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Splat
09-11-2009, 11:22 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/11/vikings-win-saints-lose-starcaps-appeal/

"Charles Grant and Will Smith (Saints) will be suspended for testing positive for the same substance, which secretly had been added to an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement known as StarCaps.

Both Grant and Smith will play this week against the Lions, since the decision came after Tuesday. The suspensions, barring something incredibly unforeseen, will start next week."

:eek:

the_legend_killer
09-11-2009, 11:25 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/11/vikings-win-saints-lose-starcaps-appeal/

"Charles Grant and Will Smith (Saints) will be suspended for testing positive for the same substance, which secretly had been added to an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement known as StarCaps.

Both Grant and Smith will play this week against the Lions, since the decision came after Tuesday. The suspensions, barring something incredibly unforeseen, will start next week."

:eek:

Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. You'd think it would apply to all who were suspended for the Starcaps.

no bare feet
09-11-2009, 11:57 AM
Did Grant and Smith take it to the appeals court? If not then it would not pertain to them.

The Dynasty
09-11-2009, 12:13 PM
I am very happy with this outcome. Great Success.

Shiver
09-11-2009, 12:26 PM
Great news for the Vikings, bad news for the Saints. The NFC South should be competitive; I thought of New Orleans had a great chance but I am worried that they will play four games without Grant, Smith and their LT Brown. They had better not dig themselves too big of a hole.

Brent
09-11-2009, 12:33 PM
Yeah, that doesn't make much sense. You'd think it would apply to all who were suspended for the Starcaps.
I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

CC.SD
09-11-2009, 12:52 PM
Super Bowl Bound

awfullyquiet
09-11-2009, 12:53 PM
I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

yeah. that's a little wacky
i don't believe that grant and smith will be suspended for 4 games, even though i think they all should serve a suspension.

edit: this makes it easier for the actual users to go ahead and cheat now.

edit2: i like this:

Now, if you buy what these guys are saying, you're buying the following:

1. That it's the league's job, not that of the players, to monitor the content of every supplement an NFL player might possibly ingest, and to keep the players informed of any content that might be harmful or illegal.
"Thanks to the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994, the FDA can't monitor and regulate these supplements effectively. We should expect the NFL to pull it off?"
2. That all five of these guys were taking a celebrity diet pill in an effort to lose weight, with no greater or more nefarious motive than that.
"Sure they were. And Manny Ramirez was taking female fertility drugs because he wants to be a mommy."
3. That they weren't taking anything else illegal.
"What we do know is that they all tested positive for a drug that sophisticated steroid users employ as a masking agent. We know that, if successful, Bumetanide would prevent these guys from testing positive for steroids even if they had taken them."
(from DAN GRAZIANO)

BOO RULING. BOO IT STRAIGHT TO HELL.

tjsunstein
09-11-2009, 01:24 PM
The Vikings need everyone back if they ever wanna live up to these media driven expectations of Super Bowl Bound or NFCCG Bound.

Flyboy
09-12-2009, 12:45 AM
Typical. Minnesota wins, New Orleans loses. Go NFL and competitiveness. Whoo.

Flyboy
09-12-2009, 12:46 AM
Did Grant and Smith take it to the appeals court? If not then it would not pertain to them.

It's a state issue more than anything and yes, I believe Grant and Smith did.

Saints 4 Lyfe
09-12-2009, 12:57 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/11/vikings-win-saints-lose-starcaps-appeal/

"Charles Grant and Will Smith (Saints) will be suspended for testing positive for the same substance, which secretly had been added to an over-the-counter weight-loss supplement known as StarCaps.

Both Grant and Smith will play this week against the Lions, since the decision came after Tuesday. The suspensions, barring something incredibly unforeseen, will start next week."

:eek:
Goodell can overturn this if he wanted but he won't.

cvv84
09-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Did Grant and Smith take it to the appeals court? If not then it would not pertain to them.

The Williams' took their to a Minnesota appeals court. Smith and Grant went to the US appeals court. Therefore the Williams' got their appeal through quicker plus they got friendly result seeing it was an in-state appeal.

"It is putting in jeopardy a drug program that has been put in front of the entire world as being one of the highest standards in all of sports," Goodell said in an interview on WFAN-AM in New York on Friday. "It puts in jeopardy that players in Minnesota in any sport -- this could affect other sports -- are subject to a different standard than in the other 49 states. You recognize that it is a fairness question for all the athletes." (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4464771)

What sets me off is that the tested positive back in training camp on 2008 and have basically gotten off the hook for suspensions for 2 years now. I mean Pat could retire after the season and not even face a punishment while others are being suspended.

vikes_28
09-12-2009, 03:15 PM
I couldn't be more happy :D

BlindSite
09-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Paints a pretty bad picture of the vikings organisation really, two years running they just allow their marquee players to use illegal supplements.

It's not up to goodell to alter the rules for new orleans.

DHVF
09-12-2009, 09:01 PM
Paints a pretty bad picture of the vikings organisation really, two years running they just allow their marquee players to use illegal supplements.

It's not up to goodell to alter the rules for new orleans.
Two years running allowing our marquee players to use illegal supplements, really? First of all, this happened about a year ago. Second, bumentide isn't an illegal substance. Get your facts right. The reason why this was such a big deal was due to the fact that the NFL failed to appropriately notify its players that bumentide was in Starcaps.

BlindSite
09-12-2009, 09:35 PM
I meant illegal by the NFL's laws and guidelines, not the laws of the continental US or minnesota.

It's not up to the NFL either to let players know whats in what and what's been modified. As has been discussed over and over and over again, these people are adults and it's their responsibility to ensure they know what is going into their bodies.

These guys negligently or deliberately used a substance banned by the NFL.

They broke the rules and violated the CoC they deserve a suspension.

wogitalia
09-13-2009, 09:57 PM
It's not up to the NFL either to let players know whats in what and what's been modified. As has been discussed over and over and over again, these people are adults and it's their responsibility to ensure they know what is going into their bodies.

These guys negligently or deliberately used a substance banned by the NFL.

I disagree here. The product did not disclose that it included the masking agent nor was it on the NFL's list of banned products. The NFL however had conducted tests and had knowledge that the Bumetanide was in fact in the product. Basically the NFL wants to say that the players must conduct scientific studies of anything they put in their body because that is the only way the players could know because the NFL withheld the information from them.

IMO none of the players should have been suspended on this one because the league could have stopped it even happening by letting all players know that their testing had shown a product contained a banned substance that it did not include on its packaging. NFL is well and truly at fault here.

Also, to my knowledge, all the involved players submitted tests that showed no trace of steroids in their system, which shows to me at least that they genuinely took the product as a dietary supplement.

It's a pity the other teams players are suffering for something that is on the NFL.

awfullyquiet
09-14-2009, 08:15 AM
I disagree here. The product did not disclose that it included the masking agent nor was it on the NFL's list of banned products. The NFL however had conducted tests and had knowledge that the Bumetanide was in fact in the product. Basically the NFL wants to say that the players must conduct scientific studies of anything they put in their body because that is the only way the players could know because the NFL withheld the information from them.

Or used approved supplements that the League provided. That'd be the 'easy' way.

Also, to my knowledge, all the involved players submitted tests that showed no trace of steroids in their system, which shows to me at least that they genuinely took the product as a dietary supplement..

You can't prove that. They took a masking agent for the sole purpose of hiding steroid usage.

DHVF
09-14-2009, 01:46 PM
You can't prove that. They took a masking agent for the sole purpose of hiding steroid usage.
Nor can you prove that they took this supplement for the purpose of hiding steroid usage. As a matter of fact it seems ludicrous to assume this, as it was unknown to them that bumentide was even in the product they were consuming.

wogitalia
09-14-2009, 08:32 PM
You can't prove that. They took a masking agent for the sole purpose of hiding steroid usage.

They took tests after the failed tests to prove they had no steroids in their system. There are many ways to test, I find it hard to believe that this masking agent covers you from every type of test and I find it hard to believe they would waste time taking a secondary test that proves nothing, surely they were subsequently tested using a method that the Bumetanide can not mask.

Still doesn't change the fact that the NFL knew players used this substance and that the NFL knew the substance had substances in it that were not listed and were not allowed and they did not inform players, they did not put it on their banned supplements list despite their knowledge.

Splat
09-15-2009, 06:32 PM
League decides not to suspend Saints players, for now (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/15/league-decides-not-to-suspend-saints-players-for-now/)

FuzzyGopher
09-15-2009, 10:51 PM
That's why they should do blood tests to test for steroids. You can't mask that, and it's detectable for a longer period of time.

wogitalia
09-16-2009, 12:48 AM
Got to be said, without reading it, that the decision not to suspend the Saints is a good one. It is good to see the league being reasonable and better yet, appearing to at least partially accept that they are in the wrong here also.