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Geo
09-29-2009, 02:03 AM
Just my thoughts on stuff around the league, I try not to repeat stuff I've said before. Feel free to share your thoughts.

Here goes:

Many people expect Tony Romo to develop, but I think this is Tony Romo developed. An undrafted free agent quarterback out of Eastern Illinois who learned and developed for three years (03-05) before finally seeing the field sometime in his fourth season (06). What you see is what you get, essentially the finished product. This is Tony Romo.

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie reminds me of a younger Deangelo Hall.

The Scott Pioli-Todd Haley marriage isn't going to last in Kansas City, I give it until the spring of 2011 at the very most. Haley is too volatile, especially as he'll be stuck with a quarterback who isn't good enough but is already terribly overpaid by the GM in charge Pioli.

I said this to a friend over the summer: Dick Jauron is a nice guy. Dick Jauron is a smart guy. But Dick Jauron is not a good football coach.

Jason Campbell is a bust. I have no idea why no one comes out and says it, but he is a definite bust. He doesn't have it whatsoever, period. Maybe he'll be a good back-up in the NFL, at best. For all the current flak the Redskins are getting for their constant changes, they most definitely need to change the quarterback this offseason when they hire a new head coach, offensive coordinator, and quarterbacks coach. It's not about change for change's sake, it's time to end the failed experiment (Campbell + Jim Zorn aka Dead Man Walking) and try to get it right with the next attempt.

Last year, Patrick Willis didn't make the All-Pro team because he had one less vote (17) than Jon Beason (18). As long as Willis stays healthy, he doesn't have to worry about that repeating this year. Especially if Monday night was any indication.

Dwight Freeney thoroughly abused Mike Gandy on Sunday night, but the only surprise is why Wisenhunt and Grimm didn't give Gandy any good help. Especially when, on the Monday before that game, Miami wasn't as stupid as they had their 1st overall pick and supposed Pro Bowl LT Jake Long one-on-one against Freeney for only 15 snaps for the entire game, and Freeney beat him around for most of them. Otherwise Freeney was doubled the entire night and the Dolphins ran away from him.

Speaking of the Dolphins, I am not a believer in their (puppet) head coach Tony Sparano. I don't think he's a good head coach, really. He might even be as bad as Eric Mangini, although at least Sparano has a really good offensive coordinator.

LeSean McCoy runs like a guy who runs 4.5-ish.

Week 3 and Marc Bulger is injured, what a shocker. He has no courage, no spine, no heart, no guts, no leadership, no nothing - the guy should be in the NFL version of the Wizard of Oz. What a paper quarterback. The only thing he's good for is stealing paycheck after paycheck from the St. Louis Rams, thanks to the idiots previously in charge who signed him to his 6-year $60M contract. Call him Marc Burglar.

Tom Brady ripping and screaming at teammates and coaches on the sidelines. As usual. Still got to build up their Golden Boy though.

The Jets look pretty good, but I'm still a little leery. I want to see two things: (1) how they fare after Week 4, when teams will have the four weeks' of game film on Sanchez and the rest of the team; and (2) whether Kris Jenkins can stay healthy enough for the whole season, which I personally doubt it. But they do look good, and that's with them not giving Leon Washington the ball enough so far.

Good teams are good teams and bad teams are bad teams because of the decision-makers involved. There's no two ways about it. If the guys at the top are making bad decisions, the result is a bad team. Good decision-makers, good teams.

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 02:17 AM
I like how no one bashes Cutler anymore

MetSox17
09-29-2009, 02:21 AM
What Tony Romo are you referring to?

Bengalsrocket
09-29-2009, 02:22 AM
Good teams are good teams and bad teams are bad teams because of the decision-makers involved. There's no two ways about it. If the guys at the top are making bad decisions, the result is a bad team. Good decision-makers, good teams.

This is a good point. Though, I would use the term "franchise" rather than team because every once in awhile you do find a team or squad that can perform particularly well or poorly for just a single season and I believe that is usually luck.

I also agree with:


Many people expect Tony Romo to develop, but I think this is Tony Romo developed. An undrafted free agent quarterback out of Eastern Illinois who learned and developed for three years (03-05) before finally seeing the field sometime in his fourth season (06). What you see is what you get, essentially the finished product. This is Tony Romo.

Every QB continues to develop and learn as time goes on, even Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are still learning new things, however there is a "soft cap" so to speak as to how good you can become over a certain amount of time and Tony Romo has likely hit it. He's not going to have another "break out" season, his was in '07 and it was pretty good.

However, Tony Romo is a fine QB. People, particularly on these boards, have some weird unrealistic standard for QBs (probably due to every 5th or 6th post on the NFL section being "RANK UR TOP QBZ AND RBZ"). Maybe he's not going to set every league record, but he is capable of holding his own on a talented team that plays in a talented division.

Bengalsrocket
09-29-2009, 02:24 AM
I like how no one bashes Cutler anymore

I still bash him... for crying :(

Paranoidmoonduck
09-29-2009, 02:35 AM
Good teams are good teams and bad teams are bad teams because of the decision-makers involved. There's no two ways about it. If the guys at the top are making bad decisions, the result is a bad team. Good decision-makers, good teams.

Well sure, but we only judge good decisions based on their ultimate effect which really doesn't really always paint an accurate picture of how good the reasons were for making the decision at the time.

yourfavestoner
09-29-2009, 03:06 AM
Tom Brady ripping and screaming at teammates and coaches on the sidelines. As usual. Still got to build up their Golden Boy though.I know, he's starting to act way too much like Peyton Manning, and it's irking me. He's turning into a big crybaby simp. What happened to Ice-In-The-Veins Brady?
;)

vidae
09-29-2009, 03:20 AM
I usually agree with your posts, but what exactly have you seen out of Cassel that makes you think he, as you put it, isn't good enough?

His first game as a Chief he threw for 2 picks yeah, but his second game he threw 2 tds and 0 picks against a solid defense. One of them was a garbage time TD, but he looked solid with what he was given. The playcalling against the Eagles was atrocious, but I have seen nothing that makes me believe he is going to be bad here in KC.

For having no protection, no run game, and one legit weapon on offense (Bowe) I would say he is doing better than many Chiefs fans anticipated.

I do agree that Pioli could sour very quickly on Haley but I'm hoping we have at least a coaching staff in place for a season or two before that decision is made. Or we hire Marty back.

YAYareaRB
09-29-2009, 03:22 AM
[/LIST]I know, he's starting to act way too much like Peyton Manning, and it's irking me. He's turning into a big crybaby simp. What happened to Ice-In-The-Veins Brady?
;)

Didn't catch that.. Tell him stop being throwing half assed every time someone blitzes on him.

wicket
09-29-2009, 03:35 AM
[/LIST]I know, he's starting to act way too much like Peyton Manning, and it's irking me. He's turning into a big crybaby simp. What happened to Ice-In-The-Veins Brady?
;)

he is with gisele bundchen now so he wants to make sure that he comes home still able to do it.

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 03:42 AM
Last year, Patrick Willis didn't make the All-Pro team because he had one less vote (17) than Jon Beason (1. As long as Willis stays healthy, he doesn't have to worry about that repeating this year. Especially if Monday night was any indication.

You expect Beason to magically do more than make double digit tackles and record a sack?

What could he possibly have done, he didn't give up any big plays and the conversions in the third quarter on third down were mistakes in coverage supporting him, not his mistakes.

He's still the best middle linebacker in the NFL. He's performing as he is without 2 of the 3 top 3 defensive tackles on the roster, with a defensive coordinator who's not exactly tailoring schemes to stop it.

The Panthers D began tanking today AFTER the offense started turning in 3 and outs.

Insult anyone on the Panthers this year, except Thomas Davis and Jon Beason, that's just downright stupid.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2009, 03:45 AM
You really think Beason is better than Willis?

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 03:50 AM
You really think Beason is better than Willis?

I feel the two are on par, and I feel that last year Beason was the better player of the two. There has been nothing to suggest, especially not 3 games into the season from what I've seen that Willis has become a better player, especially given the changes to both teams thus far.

MetSox17
09-29-2009, 03:53 AM
What makes Beason a better MLB than Willis?

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 03:56 AM
What makes Beason a better MLB than Willis?

What part of "on par with" and "not better than" did you interpret "better"?

Geo's write up made it sound as if, all of a sudden Beason was playing terribly, which is false, or that last year Beason wasn't deserving of all pro status last year, which is false.

YAYareaRB
09-29-2009, 04:17 AM
What part of "on par with" and "not better than" did you interpret "better"?

Geo's write up made it sound as if, all of a sudden Beason was playing terribly, which is false, or that last year Beason wasn't deserving of all pro status last year, which is false.

Over Willis?

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 04:29 AM
Over Willis?

Seriously, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/par

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 04:38 AM
Why would you take Beason over Willis ?I hope you know im kidding

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 04:48 AM
Because there's no reason not to. He's just as good as Willis in coverage, he's just as sure a tackler and he reads the game well enough to be just as quick recognising and reacting to the offense as plays unfold.

There are no flaws in his game, he pursues, he covers, he wraps up, he reads, he has passion, there's no reason for anyone to take Willis over him on the flip side either.

Hence my point. The two are on par, last year given his development as a rookie and the situation the defense were often in due to the excellent offensive performances he was able to shine. He deserves his AP, selection.

Willis isn't a better linebacker, and nor is Beason necessarily more valuable, and that's not my point, nor is it the point I was trying to make.

My point is, that Willis has neither exploded suddenly this year, and Beason hasn't suddenly imploded for anyone to make a judgement that Willis is more deserving now, or at any time last year of the All Pro status that Beason received and to assume or state anything to the contrary is ridiculous.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2009, 05:00 AM
I think Willis is the best coverage linebacker I've seen, the guy can literally shut down backs and tight ends because of his speed.

I think he's not even in the best defense or scheme to utilize his abilities, but he still plays like a monster, and not only is he a "sure" tackler, but he's one of the most devastating hitters in the league.

abaddon41_80
09-29-2009, 06:20 AM
Willis is a far better tackler than Beason and is much better in coverage and against the run. Beason is a better pass rusher, though. Everyone knows Willis deserved the 1st team All Pro spot last year.

bantx
09-29-2009, 08:37 AM
Beason over Willis harhar, coming from a panther of course.

Bengalsrocket
09-29-2009, 09:06 AM
You expect Beason to magically do more than make double digit tackles and record a sack?

What could he possibly have done, he didn't give up any big plays and the conversions in the third quarter on third down were mistakes in coverage supporting him, not his mistakes.

He's still the best middle linebacker in the NFL. He's performing as he is without 2 of the 3 top 3 defensive tackles on the roster, with a defensive coordinator who's not exactly tailoring schemes to stop it.

The Panthers D began tanking today AFTER the offense started turning in 3 and outs.

Insult anyone on the Panthers this year, except Thomas Davis and Jon Beason, that's just downright stupid.

Geo's write up didn't make it "sound as if, all of a sudden Beason was playing terribly". You falsely inferred from his text because you're like a crazy mom lashing out as if someone wounded your new born baby.

What you should have inferred, was that Willis deserves it this year from his extremely good performance thus far. Moreover, most fans would agree that Willis and Beason are at least comparable players. With that said, it's one guys opinion; if the whole thread was trashing Beason maybe you could get up in arms over it but no real reason to get so abrasive in your posts just over 1 guy.

Anyways, I don't like to rank players - so I'll sit on the fence here. They're both good at what they do in their systems and I'll be happy if Willis gets voted this year or the next so they both can be a part of something special :)

tjsunstein
09-29-2009, 10:03 AM
I like how no one bashes Cutler anymore

That was so two weeks ago.

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 10:29 AM
it's tough to bash a guy who's beating godawful teams (i'm not talking about week 2).
i know, but everyone exploded after week 1 and said how they always knew he was bad and couldnt do anything with the receiving corps. Everyone was overreacting a lot

Saints 4 Lyfe
09-29-2009, 10:35 AM
What Tony Romo are you referring to?
the one that falls apart in december and the playoffs?




i kid i kid

FuzzyGopher
09-29-2009, 10:38 AM
Jason Campbell is a bust. I have no idea why no one comes out and says it, but he is a definite bust. He doesn't have it whatsoever, period. Maybe he'll be a good back-up in the NFL, at best. For all the current flak the Redskins are getting for their constant changes, they most definitely need to change the quarterback this offseason when they hire a new head coach, offensive coordinator, and quarterbacks coach. It's not about change for change's sake, it's time to end the failed experiment (Campbell + Jim Zorn aka Dead Man Walking) and try to get it right with the next attempt.

You should come on down to D.C. It's all the radio stations and papers talked about in pre-season, and it's all they are talking about now. After Zorn, Campbell is probably the most hated man in Washingotn.

LizardState
09-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Embarrassments from the wk:


Brady Quinn -- Welcome back to riding the pine.

Jason Campbell -- Almost singlehandedly broke the Lions 16-game losing streak

Bobby Carpenter -- Can't tackle your grandmother

Vikings FG team -- Walk them thru it again, it's all about blocking the rushers

Carolina DBs missed tackles -- See Carpenter comment, above

Jake Delhomme -- clinging to the Turnover King crown with 17 of them since the 08 playoff loss

Entire Rams team -- The Sheep are neck in neck with Cleveland for the #1 pick next April

Jughead10
09-29-2009, 10:42 AM
Embarrassments from the wk:

Brady Quinn -- Welcome back to riding the pine.
Jason Campbell -- Almost singlehandedly broke the Lions 16-game losing streak
Bobby Carpenter -- Can't tackle your grandmother
Vikings FG team -- Walk them thru it again, it's all about blocking the rushers
Carolina DBs missed tackles -- See Carpenter comment, above
Jake Delhomme -- clinging to the Turnover King crown with 17 of them since the 08 playoff loss
Entire Rams team -- The Sheep are neck in neck with Cleveland for the #1 pick next April

Might as well add Derek Anderson, arguably worse than Quinn, and the entire Bucs offense, for not breaking 90 yards of total offense on a Giants D that was not even close to full strength.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 10:58 AM
I keep hearing Martellus Bennett this, Martellus Bennett that, but let's be honest guys, he hasn't done a damn thing this season.

Id argue that Steve Smith cost the Panthers the game. He was shut down all game, and on that pick 6, he quit on his route, thats why it got intercepted. That pick 6 was NOT Dellhomme's fault, thats all Steve Smith.

6 minutes to go, youre down 6, they couldve pushed the ball downfield and maybe scored the game winning touchdown. Instead, Smith who was acting like a baby all game, quits on the play, and seals the game for the Cowboys.

Inexcusable.

That said, it wouldve been a complete collapse by the Cowboys if they lost that game.

Also, going back to that game, Ron Meeks is terrible. Absolutely terrible. Its very obvious that to stop the Cowboys offense, you have to pack the box with 8 guys, sell out against the run, and blitz Romo like hell while pressing his WRs.

But they kept running a Tim Lewis'esque soft scheme that just begged Dallas to score on them.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 10:59 AM
I agree... I nearly lost a fantasy week and cost myself a point in my pick em league on that Pick 6. BAH!

LizardState
09-29-2009, 11:04 AM
I keep hearing Martellus Bennett this, Martellus Bennett that, but let's be honest guys, he hasn't done a damn thing this season.

He done a lot, he's looked completely confused & inept in 2 of 3 games this season. I was going to add him to the list but ran out of steam. But if Dallas is going to cut a guy before October, it's got to be Bobby Carpenter.

TitleTown088
09-29-2009, 11:07 AM
I like how no one bashes Cutler anymore

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/de635d259aa78b5f74588c422ad22e8048fef58.jpg

Ill be glad to if you'd like.

yo123
09-29-2009, 11:07 AM
Embarrassments from the wk:


Brady Quinn -- Welcome back to riding the pine.

Jason Campbell -- Almost singlehandedly broke the Lions 16-game losing streak

Bobby Carpenter -- Can't tackle your grandmother

Vikings FG team -- Walk them thru it again, it's all about blocking the rushers

Carolina DBs missed tackles -- See Carpenter comment, above

Jake Delhomme -- clinging to the Turnover King crown with 17 of them since the 08 playoff loss

Entire Rams team -- The Sheep are neck in neck with Cleveland for the #1 pick next April

Mark Roman has to be one there.

TitleTown088
09-29-2009, 11:09 AM
Why would you take Beason over Willis ?I hope you know im kidding

Because he plays for the Panthers. Duh.

it's tough to bash a guy who's beating godawful teams (i'm not talking about week 2).

By the plural " teams" do you really mean singular "team"? He's only beaten one team aside from Pitt.

Xenos
09-29-2009, 11:10 AM
I like how no one bashes Cutler anymore

He'll come around. Until he shows me that he can last the entire season with some consistency in his performance, then he'll always have that perennial loser tag hanging over him.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 11:26 AM
My take on Beason vs. Willis: Both play excellent in run and pass coverage. Willis tends to get more publicity because he was the best LB on the 49ers when they weren't good. Beason is quite underrated at this stage compared to Willis. Willis is also getting more publicity these days because he plays for a HOF MLB as his coach, and his team's D is much improved and is helping the 49ers win games.

I doubt Beason is going to get a lot of recognition this year because Carolina is a bit sunk...

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 11:27 AM
Cutler has never been a winning QB anywhere he's been. He has a ton of talent, but he hasn't really proven it consistently. The move to the Bears basically gives him zero excuses. He has performed well the last 2 weeks, but that doesn't mean a whole lot yet. If he continues to play at this level, I think he will eventually shed that tag. As of now, he is still young and inconsistent, but in terms of physical ability, he might be the most talented QB in the league...

dolphinfan2k5
09-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Speaking of the Dolphins, I am not a believer in their (puppet) head coach Tony Sparano. I don't think he's a good head coach, really. He might even be as bad as Eric Mangini, although at least Sparano has a really good offensive coordinator.

I would LOVE to hear your reasoning for this. I have to disagree with you on this 100%. Dan Henning has been calling absolutely terrible games so far this season, and many of the well-informed fans agree that he has been one of the main reasons we are 0-3. If you want proof, go watch from 3:30 left in the fourth quarter against the Colts. We started off the drive calling two draw plays, which took about a minute and a half and one of our timeouts (doesn't seem possible, I know, but apparently it is), then we continued the rest of the two-minute drive with play-action on almost every play. Who is that fooling? I don't understand the logic behind that at all, it makes me mad just thinking about it. Takes time away from the QB making his reads because his back is to the field. Ridiculous. Credit him for the Wildcat if you want, which is doing great in Miami this year at 7.5 yards per play, but that is really David Lee, and Ronnie Brown's incredible execution of it.

Not only that but his play calling just reaks of fear. We don't push the ball deep EVER (blame that on Pennington if you want, but the first play of the game for the Chargers was a deep ball to Ginn that he was open on, but Pennington overthrew him). We are constantly settling for field goals as well, despite the fact that we have the best 3rd down completion percentage in the NFL (at least before this week, idk anymore) and we are 3/3 on 4th downs.

I don't understand you comparing Sparano to Mangini at all. I've never heard a player utter a bad word about him. Most of the players love him, despite the fact that he's one of the toughest coaches in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 11:30 AM
If we're speaking of underrated ILBs, to me, the most unappreciated MIKE is easily David Harris.

David Harris in my eyes, is better than Patrick Willis.

He's played like it thus far in his career, the only reason why he doesn't get the recognition that Willis gets is because he doesn't have the workout numbers that Willis has.

But Harris is the best 3-4 ILB in the game, arguably the best inside backer in the league.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 11:34 AM
I would have said that Stewart Bradley was underrated, but he is on IR... Boo!

Yes, Harris is a very good player. He is around the ball a lot. Ryan will get a lot out of him, and we could see him in the Pro Bowl this year because of the Jets' record and more media coverage of him.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 11:37 AM
I would have said that Stewart Bradley was underrated, but he is on IR... Boo!

Yes, Harris is a very good player. He is around the ball a lot. Ryan will get a lot out of him, and we could see him in the Pro Bowl this year because of the Jets' record and more media coverage of him.

I was pimping Bradley all offseason.

Trust me, I feel your pain with Kenny Phillips :(

Harris was a beast before Rex Ryan came to town.

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 11:39 AM
If you want to talk about underrated 3-4 ILBs, let me know if you know who Stephen Cooper is without looking it up. :D

I agree on Harris though, and this guy has been producing like gangbusters since day 1. Willis>Beason.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 11:39 AM
Harris was a major reason why the Jets chose to trade Vilma a few years back. The guy is just a playmaker.

Yeah, imagine how good the Eagles/Giants games would be with everyone at full strength...

Rosebud
09-29-2009, 11:40 AM
If we're speaking of underrated ILBs, to me, the most unappreciated MIKE is easily David Harris.

David Harris in my eyes, is better than Patrick Willis.

He's played like it thus far in his career, the only reason why he doesn't get the recognition that Willis gets is because he doesn't have the workout numbers that Willis has.

But Harris is the best 3-4 ILB in the game, arguably the best inside backer in the league.

Harris is a stud, but he can't even touch Willis or Beason for that matter as a cover backer. Now he's as good against the run as Beason and as good of a pass rusher as Willis but he's a small notch below both as willis is a tad better at blowing up the run while Beason is a more explosive pass rusher. That said I'd gladly take him on our team and I wouldn't be shocked to see him in the playoffs.

tjsunstein
09-29-2009, 11:51 AM
If you want to talk about underrated 3-4 ILBs, let me know if you know who Stephen Cooper is without looking it up. :D

I agree on Harris though, and this guy has been producing like gangbusters since day 1. Willis>Beason.

Kevin Burnett hasn't been too bad for you guys either. Good sign so far.

no bare feet
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
*yawn*

yup, there have been just LOADS of qbs throughout nfl history who've 'won' (feel free to define that silly description however you'd like) in spite of one of the worst defenses in the nfl. in fact, i'm sure you can name... 1? maybe?

how about teams with no defense AND no running game?

i keep waiting for someone to put together a "cutler can't win" criticism that isn't mind-numbingly stupid, but it just never happens.


I wrote up a 750 word essay of how Cutler can't win then I saw the 'isn't mind-numblingly stupid' part and declined to submit it.

JT Jag
09-29-2009, 12:04 PM
Fun fact: Relatively unheralded Jaguars linebacker Justin Durant is on pace for 149 tackles (123 solo) and five forced fumbles this year.

He has led the team in tackles every week so far.

The Unseen
09-29-2009, 12:13 PM
Durant is teh beeeasst. We have a nice young LB corps, but they seem to have problems in coverage.

Shiver
09-29-2009, 12:13 PM
Wayne Gandy was terrible three years ago in Atlanta. He's still in the NFL? Amazing...

Flyboy
09-29-2009, 12:14 PM
The Scott Pioli-Todd Haley marriage isn't going to last in Kansas City, I give it until the spring of 2011 at the very most. Haley is too volatile, especially as he'll be stuck with a quarterback who isn't good enough but is already terribly overpaid by the GM in charge Pioli.

Yeah, I have NO clue what they are doing there in Kansas City. Wanting to get rid of Bowe? Seriously? *shakes head*

awfullyquiet
09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
Cutler has never been a winning QB anywhere he's been.

Denver: Sucked.
Vandy: Sucked.
Hey, he won a lot in high school!

But, he's talented. If winning solely is the responsibility of the quarterback, sure, he's not a winner. But, if it's not, I say it's a moot point.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
Another thing:

Before the draft, I said that Matt Ryan was going to be a bust, and Joe Flacco was going to be a franchise qb. Then last year, Ryan proved me wrong, and I decided that I was wrong, Ryan would be the better qb.

But fast forward to this year, who has been more impressive?

It has to be Flacco. The guy doesn't have half the weapons Ryan has, and has been more impressive with it. He's been amazing this year.

Taking nothing away from Ryan, he's still having a good season, but this year, so far 3 games in, Flacco is definitely outperforming him.

Giantsfan1080
09-29-2009, 12:21 PM
I had Flacco over Ryan as well last year and so coming into the year I thought I was just another moron. Maybe that decision isn't as bad as I thought.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2009, 12:21 PM
Another thing:

Before the draft, I said that Matt Ryan was going to be a bust, and Joe Flacco was going to be a franchise qb. Then last year, Ryan proved me wrong, and I decided that I was wrong, Ryan would be the better qb.

But fast forward to this year, who has been more impressive?

It has to be Flacco. The guy doesn't have half the weapons Ryan has, and has been more impressive with it. He's been amazing this year.

Taking nothing away from Ryan, he's still having a good season, but this year, so far 3 games in, Flacco is definitely outperforming him.

That. I wondered why Flacco got so much less love than Ryan, I felt that he performed similarly as a rookie (individually) and he did it with less weapons.

Not only that, but when two guys perform at a similar level, you would think everyone would jock the guy with the elite physical tools, who is a bit more raw.

Going to rub a lot of people the wrong way with this, but I agree with you. (Though, I didn't like either coming out, to be honest)

Flyboy
09-29-2009, 12:21 PM
Joe "Sexy-Armed" Flacco is real legit right now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-29-2009, 12:22 PM
Another thing:

Before the draft, I said that Matt Ryan was going to be a bust, and Joe Flacco was going to be a franchise qb. Then last year, Ryan proved me wrong, and I decided that I was wrong, Ryan would be the better qb.

But fast forward to this year, who has been more impressive?

It has to be Flacco. The guy doesn't have half the weapons Ryan has, and has been more impressive with it. He's been amazing this year.

Taking nothing away from Ryan, he's still having a good season, but this year, so far 3 games in, Flacco is definitely outperforming him.


Atlanta Falcons offense is perfect for him. A lot of runs with their Rbs, a lot of screens, and 1 good WR with a HOF TE helping him. They will only get better down their with Thomas D. as their GM, and better the more experience Ryan gets.

Geo
09-29-2009, 12:22 PM
Wayne Gandy was terrible three years ago in Atlanta. He's still in the NFL? Amazing...
Whoops, I meant Mike Gandy. Although the way Mike held up on Sunday ...

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:24 PM
That. I wondered why Flacco got so much less love than Ryan, I felt that he performed similarly as a rookie (individually) and he did it with less weapons.

Not only that, but when two guys perform at a similar level, you would think everyone would jock the guy with the elite physical tools, who is a bit more raw.

Going to rub a lot of people the wrong way with this, but I agree with you. (Though, I didn't like either coming out, to be honest)

I liked Flacco coming out bc he reminded me of Roethlisberger. Oddly enough, he even plays like Big Ben. They have the same style.

Flacco has a bigger arm though.

I questioned Ryan's accuracy coming out, but playing in a dome kind of silenced that issue, plus with a steady pocket, he's been able to keep his mechanics in check.

I never questioned his intelligence, just his accuracy. I was wrong on him.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 12:24 PM
I was definitely on the "Ryan = bust" train, and I was humiliated when he kicked butt last year. I wasn't that high on Flacco either, but I liked his big arm and the run game/D that the Ravens had. Flacco has been more impressive this year. It's kind of odd that he's not getting props, though. He's a second year guy who is playing like a Pro Bowler on a team with no weapons. All the kudos are going to Harbaugh and McGahee. HA

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Let's give Cam Cameron some love too. Look at his resume:

Drew Brees
Phillip Rivers
Joe Flacco

Its no coincidence that whoever is coached by the guy is developing into a nice qb. If I had a young developing qb, I think this is the first guy id consider hiring as my OC. His track record doesn't lie.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
Checked up on Wiki on Cameron. He was QB coach for the Skins in the mid-late 90's. Helped develop Frerotte when he was a pro bowler and also worked with Trent Green before he went to St. Louis...

After his stint with the Skins, he was OC at Indiana U, where he worked and developed Randle El.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:30 PM
Checked up on Wiki on Cameron. He was QB coach for the Skins in the mid-late 90's. Helped develop Frerotte when he was a pro bowler and also worked with Trent Green before he went to St. Louis...

After his stint with the Skins, he was OC at Indiana U, where he worked and developed Randle El.

How about that...


Guy was a terrible HC, but his resume as an OC is amazing.

*sigh*....we have Kevin Gilbride.

I was laughing my ass off when they shown the clip of Buddy Ryan swinging at him before the Jets game on Sunday.

Yup...thats our OC...

*sigh*

Giantsfan1080
09-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Cameron has done an amazing job with QB's. It was a bit of bad luck for him that the Dolphins only won 1 gamde so he may never get another shot head coaching.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Flacco really is flying under the radar, all things considered. He's a young QB with big time physical tools and potential, but he's already a damn good QB with plenty of room for growth.

Never seen a high upside guy that is already producing get so little love.

Geo
09-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Cameron has done an amazing job with QB's. It was a bit of bad luck for him that the Dolphins only won 1 gamde so he may never get another shot head coaching.
First off, they shouldn't have won that one game. The Ravens gave it away.

But more importantly, Cameron is not a leader of men. Not close.

As stated above, he does a very good job as an offensive coordinator however.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 12:33 PM
How about that...


Guy was a terrible HC, but his resume as an OC is amazing.

*sigh*....we have Kevin Gilbride.

I was laughing my ass off when they shown the clip of Buddy Ryan swinging at him before the Jets game on Sunday.

Yup...thats our OC...

*sigh*

Some of my buddies are huge Bills fans. During the Gregg Williams/Gilbride disaster, my friend Jim held up a sign that made it onto CBS that said "If Buddy Ryan can punch Kevin Gilbride, can I be next?"

Ravens1991
09-29-2009, 12:35 PM
Yes Flacco is a beast, even if he didnt improve 1 bit from his rookie year Baltimore would love him because he is the best QB we have ever had since Vinny. Now we are happy because it looks like we will have a great offense for the next 10 years. I really want us to build around Flacco, if we had a guy like Marshall/Boldin we would be a elite passing offense this season. Give him some young talent and we can be very good.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 12:38 PM
I am pretty sure that the Ravens will be investing a lot of high draft picks into the defense. Particularly MLB and CB. Kind of off topic, but I don't see them investing much in high profile WR's in the draft...

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:39 PM
Some of my buddies are huge Bills fans. During the Gregg Williams/Gilbride disaster, my friend Jim held up a sign that made it onto CBS that said "If Buddy Ryan can punch Kevin Gilbride, can I be next?"

*sigh*

Ben had Whistenhunt
Rivers had Cameron/Turner
Flacco has Cameron
Rodgers has McCarthey
Cutler had Shanny
Kolb has Reid

We had/have Huffnagel and Gilbride...

*sigh*

Ravens1991
09-29-2009, 12:40 PM
I think we are fine at LB. Our second round pick Krueger doesnt even dress beacuse we have a lot of capable LBs, I think Dannelle Ellerbe will be the next Bart Scott. Unless someone slips I doubt we get a LB. I could see CB also, knowing Ozzie we have no idea what to expect.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Baltimore has to rebuild that defense.

They could use 2 CBs, a LB, and a pass rusher.

This isn't the same old Ravens defense anymore. You can score on the Ravens.

Oddly enough however, this isn't the same Ravens offense anymore either. And the Ravens have the best oline in football thus far.

EDIT: I forgot you have Kreuger. Scratch that. You just need secondary help and a LB.

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Yes Flacco is a beast, even if he didnt improve 1 bit from his rookie year Baltimore would love him because he is the best QB we have ever had since Vinny. Now we are happy because it looks like we will have a great offense for the next 10 years. I really want us to build around Flacco, if we had a guy like Marshall/Boldin we would be a elite passing offense this season. Give him some young talent and we can be very good.

I agree with this but you left out a crucial point, probably because it's so obvious it's been beaten to death: I am absolutely in love with the Ravens' O-line, and think they're as responsible as any other unit for that success.

The doubter in me wants to look at the dirty birds schedule so far and think maybe things are being a little exaggerated, but when you have a huge, talented, and physical O-line the sky is the limit.

The Ravens' D has an Achilles' heel or two as far as I'm concerned, but not enough to knock the general beastliness of the team as a whole.

edit: great, way to show me up BBD.

Raiderz4Life
09-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Cutler has never been a winning QB anywhere he's been. He has a ton of talent, but he hasn't really proven it consistently. The move to the Bears basically gives him zero excuses. He has performed well the last 2 weeks, but that doesn't mean a whole lot yet. If he continues to play at this level, I think he will eventually shed that tag. As of now, he is still young and inconsistent, but in terms of physical ability, he might be the most talented QB in the league...

Well, It is my humble opinion that, if your a QB in a contest against your Defense to see who will put up the most points on the board....you probably won't be very successful.

Giantsfan1080
09-29-2009, 12:46 PM
I thought the Ravens would take a step back this year because the defense wouldn't be as good. Boy, was I wrong.

yourfavestoner
09-29-2009, 01:14 PM
*sigh*

Ben had Whistenhunt
Rivers had Cameron/Turner
Flacco has Cameron
Rodgers has McCarthey
Cutler had Shanny
Kolb has Reid

We had/have Huffnagel and Gilbride...

*sigh*

You also have Coughlin, who is a very brilliant and underrated offensive mind himself.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 01:15 PM
The defense is put in a good spot because Flacco and the offense are putting points on the board and keeping them off the field. When you are ahead by a lot, it's easy for the D to sit back knowing that teams are going to pass on them. This Ravens D is not like the Ravens D of old. It is a good defense, but not one that will win games for you every week.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:17 PM
You also have Coughlin, who is a very brilliant and underrated offensive mind himself.

Coughlin is a very good HC, but he's the kind of guy who needs great coordinators around him, like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher.


He's not really an Xs and Os guy. He's more of a motivator and overall manager of his team.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-29-2009, 01:24 PM
Coughlin is a very good HC, but he's the kind of guy who needs great coordinators around him, like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher.


He's not really an Xs and Os guy. He's more of a motivator and overall manager of his team.

Who do you know he is not an Xs and Os guy? Did you hear it in an interview or something?

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:31 PM
Who do you know he is not an Xs and Os guy? Did you hear it in an interview or something?

Obviously not, but he doesn't really take charge with our offense, and he doesn't do much if at all with our defense. Our OC and DC do much of the gameplanning outside the basic blueprint.

What Coughlin brought to NY was toughness, teamwork, accountability etc. And thats all great, I have no problem with that.

But he's never wowed me at any point in his 5 years here as an X and O guy.

We never outschemed anyone offensively. We just imposed our will on people. And again, I'm fine with that, but that doesn't make him an X and O genius.

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 01:35 PM
how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?

no bare feet
09-29-2009, 01:39 PM
how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?

With his play calling and schemes that he installs on the field?

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:41 PM
how can he wow you with his Xs and Os if you arent in the locker room?

Its not his playbook.

Like I said, he's great at teaching the basics of the game, but he doesn't really take control of the playbook.

He's never even taken over playcalling. Even during the dark ages of the Huffnagel years.

I like the guy as a HC, but I think he can be a better one if we had some better coordinators around him.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-29-2009, 01:41 PM
Obviously not, but he doesn't really take charge with our offense, and he doesn't do much if at all with our defense. Our OC and DC do much of the gameplanning outside the basic blueprint.

What Coughlin brought to NY was toughness, teamwork, accountability etc. And thats all great, I have no problem with that.

But he's never wowed me at any point in his 5 years here as an X and O guy.

We never outschemed anyone offensively. We just imposed our will on people. And again, I'm fine with that, but that doesn't make him an X and O genius.


Again how do you know he doesn't take charge with our offense? Do you or I have an extra headset hearing what goes on? How is he supposed to wow you if you have no idea what goes on in the meetings, or during games without having a head set? Factor in no wide or tight shot angles either, lol. I mean come on, that's just fan talk or fan nonsense in my book.

That falls into the nonsense fans say, such as "he runs the wrong routes".

The fact is no one knows or can say stuff about that unless he, himself, comes on and says, "Look, I am not an Xs and Os guy, that's why I have good coaches around me." If he says something like that, then it's cool. He could be being humble as well. But without that, it's impossible to make a statement like that. You're better than that BBD.

awfullyquiet
09-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Like I said, he's great at teaching the basics of the game, but he doesn't really take control of the playbook.

nfl players need to know how to play to win the game.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Again how do you know he doesn't take charge with our offense? Do you or I have an extra headset hearing what goes on? How is he supposed to wow you if you have no idea what goes on in the meetings, or during games without having a head set? Factor in no wide or tight shot angles either, lol. I mean come on, that's just fan talk or fan nonsense in my book.

That falls into the nonsense fans say, such as "he runs the wrong routes".

The fact is no one knows or can say stuff about that unless he, himself, comes on and says, "Look, I am not an Xs and Os guy, that's why I have good coaches around me." If he says something like that, then it's cool. He could be being humble as well. But without that, it's impossible to make a statement like that. You're better than that BBD.

Youre right.

But what bothers me is, why has he never gotten on his coordinators, or just taken over the offense?

He only made changes after management forced him to. He's either too loyal to his guys, or just not an X and O guy.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:47 PM
nfl players need to know how to play to win the game.

whether thats cliche or not, i do believe in it.

i think teams have to learn how to win. some teams know how to win close games (the Pats being the best at it), and some teams just find ways to lose em. I think thats learned, I give coaches credit for that.

a lot of the "lucky" plays the Pats have made over the years aren't lucky at all.

awfullyquiet
09-29-2009, 01:51 PM
a lot of the "lucky" plays the Pats have made over the years aren't lucky at all.

this coming from the guy who believes in clutch.

bigbluedefense
09-29-2009, 01:54 PM
this coming from the guy who believes in clutch.

ok?

i just said that what people deem as lucky plays made by the Pats aren't lucky at all. They've been conditioned to react at those moments. Those are heady plays. Like week 1 vs the Bills. That wasn't luck. Leodis was dumb enough to take it out, and they ripped the ball out of his hands. It wasn't a lucky fumble, 2 guys went to rip it out and recover it. They knew what needed to be done and they did it. Thats not luck. Thats a well coached group of guys who are ready for any moment.

I don't see what correlation youre trying to make.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-29-2009, 01:54 PM
Youre right.

But what bothers me is, why has he never gotten on his coordinators, or just taken over the offense?

He only made changes after management forced him to. He's either too loyal to his guys, or just not an X and O guy.

He is the oldest coach in the league and they are old school. So if I am the HC and I give you the play calling duties in my system, then your calling the plays, and adding stuff on your own. I am not going to breathe down your neck and interfere. He could be like that or who knows maybe he does interfere, but the fan wouldn't know it because he has no means of knowing.

1. He is not in the meetings
2. He doesn't have a headset
3. He doesn't have the 2 different views.

I think he is too loyal to his guys. If the guys are good people but stink, it's very hard, if you're old school to go up to someone and fire them. Some coaches have no worries about it. Others feel bad doing it. Let's not forget each person is different and handles stuff like that differently.

But fans should not make statements like that because they don't have enough information to properly come up with that deduction. If you have all the stuff I listed above, then feel free to make those things.

Plus that's not factoring in coaching chemistry or dynamic among the staff. Who gets to create the call sheet each week? All the offensive coaches? Just Gilbride? Does Coughlin help? I don't know, and neither does the fan.

Coughlin's offense is basically a smash mouth offense which relies on the run. Factor in a coach who used to run the Run and Shoot, and that element is added in our passing game. It is what it is.

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 02:19 PM
ok?

i just said that what people deem as lucky plays made by the Pats aren't lucky at all. They've been conditioned to react at those moments. Those are heady plays. Like week 1 vs the Bills. That wasn't luck. Leodis was dumb enough to take it out, and they ripped the ball out of his hands. It wasn't a lucky fumble, 2 guys went to rip it out and recover it. They knew what needed to be done and they did it. Thats not luck. Thats a well coached group of guys who are ready for any moment.

I don't see what correlation youre trying to make.
Well those lucky plays are usually titled "clutch" plays.

If brady executes in the last 2 minutes and scores. That isnt clutch. That is just a good player executing. You see the correlation?

scottyboy
09-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Flacco's so good because he's got the best RB in the league on his team. Those juicy thighs just distract the DB's, obv.

awfullyquiet
09-29-2009, 03:00 PM
Well those lucky plays are usually titled "clutch" plays.

If brady executes in the last 2 minutes and scores. That isnt clutch. That is just a good player executing. You see the correlation?

If said CB's strip the ball, it's because they practice to and are strong enough.
If said DE's bull rush through the tackle, it's because they practice and are strong enough.

it's not clutch. it's good players executing the skills they have. because clutch doesn't exist.

the opportunity to fail and fall apart, aka, the mike vanderjagt syndrome, does exist.

Da-Phins
09-29-2009, 03:15 PM
I wish we had Cam as a coach again....but only as a coordinator. He doesnt know how to lead a team but he sure does know how to develop QB's.

gsorace
09-29-2009, 03:36 PM
Fun fact: Relatively unheralded Jaguars linebacker Justin Durant is on pace for 149 tackles (123 solo) and five forced fumbles this year.

He has led the team in tackles every week so far.

Not saying he isn't a good player because i haven't seen him play at all, but tackles might be the most meaningless stat in all of professional sports, right up there with QB rating and saves in baseball.

Gay Ork Wang
09-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Devin hester has more receiving yards than Fitzgerald, Boldin, Roy Williams, TO, Roddy White, marshall, edwards and Houshmandzadeh. beast!

Thecollegedropout
09-29-2009, 04:05 PM
I think you mean David Harris being on Pat Willis level of a MLB/ILB not Jon Beason......

dolphinfan2k5
09-29-2009, 04:06 PM
I wish we had Cam as a coach again....but only as a coordinator. He doesnt know how to lead a team but he sure does know how to develop QB's.

John Beck?

Thecollegedropout
09-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Embarrassments from the wk:


Brady Quinn -- Welcome back to riding the pine.

Jason Campbell -- Almost singlehandedly broke the Lions 16-game losing streak

Bobby Carpenter -- Can't tackle your grandmother

Vikings FG team -- Walk them thru it again, it's all about blocking the rushers

Carolina DBs missed tackles -- See Carpenter comment, above

Jake Delhomme -- clinging to the Turnover King crown with 17 of them since the 08 playoff loss

Entire Rams team -- The Sheep are neck in neck with Cleveland for the #1 pick next April
Not that he is an embarrassment to the Jets but Ryan Mouton cost the Titans 14 pts and what was the game.

He gets the embarrassment gameball of the week hands down.

Sniper
09-29-2009, 04:07 PM
If we're speaking of underrated ILBs, to me, the most unappreciated MIKE is easily David Harris.

David Harris in my eyes, is better than Patrick Willis.

He's played like it thus far in his career, the only reason why he doesn't get the recognition that Willis gets is because he doesn't have the workout numbers that Willis has.

But Harris is the best 3-4 ILB in the game, arguably the best inside backer in the league.

You're so wise.

Hurricanes25
09-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Not that he is an embarrassment to the Jets but Ryan Mouton cost the Titans 14 pts and what was the game.

He gets the embarrassment gameball of the week hands down.

Agreed. Mouton handed the Jets the win on a silver platter. His fumbles were the difference in the game.

Babylon
09-29-2009, 04:11 PM
A few thoughts i had:

Jim Mora made a real poor attempt on firing up an injury riddled team by throwing the Kicker under the bus. I liked his dad's tirades better.

Jay Cutler i think has figured it out, he doesnt have the best receiving corps but he knows he can win it at the end. Pittsburgh was a huge game and it's never easy to win at Seattle with that crowd noise.

I am wondering if Julius Peppers has turned back his paycheck for last nights game because from what i saw he was a joke. Don't have to worry about injury because he isnt going to get hurt this year.

For all the attention Brett Favre got this weekend (all deserved) Greg Lewis made a phenominal catch.

Peyton Manning has really surpassed Tom Brady in my opinion as the best in the game, really surpassed.

Steve Smith admitted he purposely ran a differant route on Dallas's int for a TD. All the while the whole world was ripping Jake DelHomme for it.

Gonna take T.O.s side for once on his struggles in Buffalo. The Evans and Owens duo isnt going to work with a guy that cant or wont throw the ball over 10 yards.

Shiver
09-29-2009, 04:25 PM
My quick takes:

Darren McFadden cannot hold onto the football. He is a good player in a bad situation, he can block, he runs with power, and catches well. But man his fumblitis is out of this world. He has a chance to bounce back next week against the Texans defense... or lack thereof.

The Rams will be better off with Kyle Boller, wow, who would thought that could ever be said. I think Donnie Avery is secretly happy there is a QB who will throw it deep.

The Redskins are terrible, they barely beat the Rams at home and lost to the (albeit improved) Lions. Its time to say goodbye to Jim Zorn and Jason Campbell, hello Mike Shannahan.

Matt Ryan played well, but the defense just couldn't get off the field.

Tom Brady is not the same guy and may never be.

The Eagles should make Kevin Kolb their full time starter. We all know McNabb can do well, but they might as well move on towards the future. I don't think there would be any drop-off.

Great, as if we need to hear anything more about Brett Favre... great throw though.

The Bills stopped the Saints' passing attack?!

Isn't it odd that Cedric Benson looks like the better player than Matt Forte?

Geo
09-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Definitely agree on Mora, that was revealing in more than one way, none positive.

Raheem Morris is calling out more than guy, more than once. Is there a guy more in over his head in the NFL than Raheem Morris? I don't think so. As for his earlier statement to Josh Johnson of him being a "career back-up QB", well that may be true, just like Morris is a "career defensive backs coach" at best.

Btw that career back-up is already starting for the career defensive backs coach in Week 4. Way to peg that one right on the head, hotshot. You're really making the hire young head coaches trend look good.

This guy is like the anti-Dungy. He waited too little for a head coaching job, has a spunky personality, won't be in Tampa Bay for long, but will make the team worse from when he inherited it.

bsaza2358
09-29-2009, 04:35 PM
Gonna have to disagree with you about Kolb. He did decently against some of the weaker passing D's in the league. However, give teams time to prepare for him, and he'd probably get exposed at this point. McNabb gives the Eagles the best chance to win this year, when he is healthy.

However, I did say to some of my Eagles fan friends outside of SWDC that it is conceivable that the Eagles go into 2010 without McNabb or Westbrook.

Giantsfan1080
09-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Gonna have to disagree with you about Kolb. He did decently against some of the weaker passing D's in the league. However, give teams time to prepare for him, and he'd probably get exposed at this point. McNabb gives the Eagles the best chance to win this year, when he is healthy.

However, I did say to some of my Eagles fan friends outside of SWDC that it is conceivable that the Eagles go into 2010 without McNabb or Westbrook.

As a Giants fan I could only hope.

BlindSite
09-29-2009, 05:19 PM
I've said for years that Jim Mora is a petulant child, I saw it plenty of times when he was head coach in Atlanta and I really didn't think he'd get another shot at being a HC. Seattle's front office obviously has a short memory.

Babylon
09-29-2009, 05:27 PM
I've said for years that Jim Mora is a petulant child, I saw it plenty of times when he was head coach in Atlanta and I really didn't think he'd get another shot at being a HC. Seattle's front office obviously has a short memory.

I actually thought he was going to be in the mix for the UW Husky job. I thought he was better suited for college like a Saban or a Pete Carroll.

To single out the kicker for missing two kicks, one lost the game cause they lost by 5, is rather childish as you point out. To me he was trying to use a strawman here to get everyone's attention but i think it came across wrong. There was no mention of Seneca Wallace's poor throws or TJ Houshmanzada putting the ball on the ground late in the game. Give him a partial pass because it's just his 3rd game but he needs to do better.

Da-Phins
09-29-2009, 05:48 PM
John Beck?

Cant have success with every QB but for the most part he has developed QB's well.

iowatreat54
09-29-2009, 06:01 PM
Isn't it odd that Cedric Benson looks like the better player than Matt Forte?

Meh. 5th year vs. 2nd year. Not to mention apparently the Bears are a pass first team now.

It's not really a huge surprise that Benson has been performing well. He just came into the league thinking that he deserved everything and didn't have to try, just like every year before that. Add in the fact that he alienated himself from his own team and never worked hard Monday-Saturday, it really wasn't a surprise how awful he was.

That said, it appears that he has figured out how to act on and off the field, and has at least for the time being fixed some of the mental issues he had.

MetSox17
09-29-2009, 06:14 PM
I don't want mine to get lost in the shuffle of everything, so i'll say it again.

Cedric Benson is a better and more productive player than Matt Forte! Take that, Bears! ;)

Just sayin, i've been sayin it for a few days now ;)

SFbear
09-29-2009, 06:24 PM
Isn't it odd that Cedric Benson looks like the better player than Matt Forte?

Bengals Oline 2009 > Bears Oline 2007-2008 > Bears Oline 2009

The organizations attempt to rebuild the Oline in the offseason has been a failure. It could be an issue of new players needing time to adjust but I'm not optimistic.

Also Forte may have some lingering hamstring issues from the preseason.

yo123
09-29-2009, 06:29 PM
Three weeks of Cedric Benson not sucking =/= him not sucking.

That said, Forte has never really impressed me to be honest.

MetSox17
09-29-2009, 06:31 PM
Three weeks of Cedric Benson not sucking =/= him not sucking.

That said, Forte has never really impressed me to be honest.

That's ********.

So what does him not sucking mean?

Raiderz4Life
09-29-2009, 07:44 PM
I dont agree with some of the posts bout Mora...why hide the Kicker? I agreed 100% with what he said...I mean seriously you're asked to do 1 things....JUST 1!!!! Do that **** right.

scottyboy
09-29-2009, 08:27 PM
Ray Rice>Forte>Benson

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 08:33 PM
Ray Rice>Forte>Benson

Leonard???

Giantsfan1080
09-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Leonard???

You mean Brian LiNard according to Stuart Scott.

Hurricanes25
09-29-2009, 08:36 PM
You mean Brian LiNard according to Stuart Scott.

I heard that last night. That was awful.

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 08:37 PM
Scott's warped eye is contagious, it's spread to his mouth.

Hurricanes25
09-29-2009, 08:42 PM
Even when T.O keeps his mouth shut, his press conferences are still hilarious.

YAYareaRB
09-29-2009, 08:43 PM
I'm late but David Harris is not better than Patrick Willis. I'm sorry. Of course, I'm very biased. lol

Rosebud
09-29-2009, 09:35 PM
While I'll agree TO is being under-utilized, he hasn't shown he's an elite WR the few times they have gone to him over the top, be it dropping the ball or not making a good break on the ball. I really wish buffalo had a quality coaching staff because that team would be right in the thick of things in the AFC East as that oline has come together a lot better than anyone expected, the D is more than solid enough and they have a lot of talent at the offensive skill positions.

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 09:37 PM
While I'll agree TO is being under-utilized, he hasn't shown he's an elite WR the few times they have gone to him over the top, be it dropping the ball or not making a good break on the ball. I really wish buffalo had a quality coaching staff because that team would be right in the thick of things in the AFC East as that oline has come together a lot better than anyone expected, the D is more than solid enough and they have a lot of talent at the offensive skill positions.

There are still questions about Trent though.

Rosebud
09-29-2009, 09:40 PM
There are still questions about Trent though.

Yes, but I tend to believe that falls on their offensive game plan, although it very well could be the after-effects of trent's injury. He put me on his bandwagon last year so I'm certainly biased in the matter.

CC.SD
09-29-2009, 09:46 PM
Yes, but I tend to believe that falls on their offensive game plan, although it very well could be the after-effects of trent's injury. He put me on his bandwagon last year so I'm certainly biased in the matter.

It's a tough call but ultimately I don't think he is the long term answer.

dolphinfan2k5
09-29-2009, 09:59 PM
I would LOVE to hear your reasoning for this. I have to disagree with you on this 100%. Dan Henning has been calling absolutely terrible games so far this season, and many of the well-informed fans agree that he has been one of the main reasons we are 0-3. If you want proof, go watch from 3:30 left in the fourth quarter against the Colts. We started off the drive calling two draw plays, which took about a minute and a half and one of our timeouts (doesn't seem possible, I know, but apparently it is), then we continued the rest of the two-minute drive with play-action on almost every play. Who is that fooling? I don't understand the logic behind that at all, it makes me mad just thinking about it. Takes time away from the QB making his reads because his back is to the field. Ridiculous. Credit him for the Wildcat if you want, which is doing great in Miami this year at 7.5 yards per play, but that is really David Lee, and Ronnie Brown's incredible execution of it.

Not only that but his play calling just reaks of fear. We don't push the ball deep EVER (blame that on Pennington if you want, but the first play of the game for the Chargers was a deep ball to Ginn that he was open on, but Pennington overthrew him). We are constantly settling for field goals as well, despite the fact that we have the best 3rd down completion percentage in the NFL (at least before this week, idk anymore) and we are 3/3 on 4th downs.

I don't understand you comparing Sparano to Mangini at all. I've never heard a player utter a bad word about him. Most of the players love him, despite the fact that he's one of the toughest coaches in the NFL.

I really want to hear your thoughts on this Geo

Rosebud
09-29-2009, 10:11 PM
It's a tough call but ultimately I don't think he is the long term answer.

We'll see this year. If he gets back to being the guy he was last year I think he can be a very good QB because he moved around very smoothly in the pocket, had good accuracy and went through his reads quickly.

Sniper
09-29-2009, 10:15 PM
The Eagles should make Kevin Kolb their full time starter.

:rolleyes:

We all know McNabb can do well, but they might as well move on towards the future. I don't think there would be any drop-off.

It was the Chiefs.

Shiver
09-29-2009, 11:33 PM
:rolleyes:



It was the Chiefs.


You know as well as I do what the upside to having McNabb as QB is, i.e not much of one. As Denny Green once said: he 'is who we thought he was.'

Geo
09-30-2009, 12:09 AM
I really want to hear your thoughts on this Geo
I don't think Sparano has what it takes to be a good head coach, but that's just my impression of him. I could be completely wrong, but I get the feeling it's asking something of him that's he is not best suited at nor will excel at. He can handle the daily operations, but how is at helping to build a team and a winning environment, at getting the most out of his players, and adjusting his team for the better in the face of adversity during a season, and so on.

He was part of a great turnaround last year, record-wise, but I think the real test has arrived. And will be in true full effect once Parcells leaves, which won't wait any longer than after next season.

As for the offensive coordinator, I think he does a very good job making the most of what he has. He can really design some plays, I mean really design them. But he still has to curtail somewhat to a Parcells offense.

But if he did call the draw and run plays in that 3-minute drive against the Colts, yeah, he blew it there.

LizardState
09-30-2009, 08:43 AM
Joe "Sexy-Armed" Flacco is real legit right now.

Flacco was a local pick (Delaware Mud Hens) for B-More & considered a stretch & a risk coming from a Div. II-A or wherever, could he grasp the intricacies of an NFL playbook? Cameron & Ozzie Newsome customized it to better fit their personnel, they simplified the offense somewhat for him, converted FB L'Ron McClain into a RB, etc. I think their minds were made up when he threw 70-yd passes for them at his Pro Day, clearly this guy had the biggest arm in his draft & that minimized the risks with the juggernaut Ravens defense making things much smoother for his NFL transition. And it worked! Only Ryan was a bigger surprise as a rookie last yr.

Ryan was more the field general type QB vs. a big-armed vertical game passer & Atlanta's offense fit him like a glove, the emergence of The Burner Turner took a lot of the pressure off.

Both Atlanta & B-More rolled the dice with rookie QBs & it paid off, that's the execption in the NFL IMO, not the rule.

awfullyquiet
09-30-2009, 08:48 AM
Both Atlanta & B-More rolled the dice with rookie QBs & it paid off, that's the execption in the NFL IMO, not the rule.

Both of them went into fantastic situations for them last year.

If either of them went into Detroit, or Oakland, they would have looked like ****. A QB's development will always be hampered by the lack of talent around them.

Paul
09-30-2009, 08:58 AM
Going back to the Willis, Beason, Harris conversation abit.

http://hawkfantasysports.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/ray_lewis.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm317/CrazyKingD/willis_patrick.jpg
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/202738/jon-beason.jpg
http://blog.nj.com/jets_impact/2009/08/large_davidharris.jpg

Common denominator?

Gay Ork Wang
09-30-2009, 09:33 AM
now i see it Paul. They are all black

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 09:36 AM
now i see it Paul. They are all black

No doofus, they are all in the NFL!

Gay Ork Wang
09-30-2009, 09:41 AM
No doofus, they are all in the NFL!
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/combine/headshots/1032.jpg

OH RLY?

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 09:43 AM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/combine/headshots/1032.jpg

OH RLY?

http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FCQ/I6TN/FP8NMFY8/FCQI6TNFP8NMFY8.MEDIUM.jpg

Gay Ork Wang
09-30-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FCQ/I6TN/FP8NMFY8/FCQI6TNFP8NMFY8.MEDIUM.jpg
http://graphics2.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/apr08/jordy26ap2.jpg

Id post a picture of Jordy facepalming, but you can only see him facepalming others.

dolphinfan2k5
09-30-2009, 04:32 PM
I don't think Sparano has what it takes to be a good head coach, but that's just my impression of him. I could be completely wrong, but I get the feeling it's asking something of him that's he is not best suited at nor will excel at. He can handle the daily operations, but how is at helping to build a team and a winning environment, at getting the most out of his players, and adjusting his team for the better in the face of adversity during a season, and so on.

He was part of a great turnaround last year, record-wise, but I think the real test has arrived. And will be in true full effect once Parcells leaves, which won't wait any longer than after next season.

As for the offensive coordinator, I think he does a very good job making the most of what he has. He can really design some plays, I mean really design them. But he still has to curtail somewhat to a Parcells offense.

But if he did call the draw and run plays in that 3-minute drive against the Colts, yeah, he blew it there.

Well, I still have to disagree, but I can't really argue with any of that. Hopefully you are wrong on Sparano and right on Henning :)

Babylon
09-30-2009, 04:43 PM
While I'll agree TO is being under-utilized, he hasn't shown he's an elite WR the few times they have gone to him over the top, be it dropping the ball or not making a good break on the ball. I really wish buffalo had a quality coaching staff because that team would be right in the thick of things in the AFC East as that oline has come together a lot better than anyone expected, the D is more than solid enough and they have a lot of talent at the offensive skill positions.

Hard to tell with the coaching staff if the pass plays are designed to get the ball down the field and Edwards is choosing to go short, because that is what he does most of the time. I'm half tempted to take T.O.s side on this one.

yo123
09-30-2009, 05:02 PM
That's ********.

So what does him not sucking mean?



What's ********? You think 3 solid games makes him a good running back? Should we forget the previous 4 years?

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 05:04 PM
Id post a picture of Jordy facepalming, but you can only see him facepalming others.

I'd expect nothing less.

Benson finished strong last year too. The concept of him really coming around, on his second team, is definitely in play.

P-L
09-30-2009, 05:30 PM
Yeah, Benson averaged 103 yards per game and 4.1 yards per carry over the final four games of last season. Not to mention that he had a pretty good start with the Bengals. If not for poor showings in weeks 11, 12, and 13 his numbers would've been a lot better.

Geo
09-30-2009, 06:35 PM
Well, I still have to disagree, but I can't really argue with any of that. Hopefully you are wrong on Sparano and right on Henning :)
I forgot to mention, you are totally right that Sparano is a better people person than Mangini (who is the worst). Definite mistake on my part.

Sparano could be a good HC. The next two years will further reveal.

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 06:40 PM
I forgot to mention, you are totally right that Sparano is a better people person than Mangini (who is the worst). Definite mistake on my part.

Sparano could be a good HC. The next two years will further reveal.

At which point he will be forced to return to his home underneath the mountain.

Bengalsrocket
09-30-2009, 07:19 PM
What's ********? You think 3 solid games makes him a good running back? Should we forget the previous 4 years?

He was good for us last year too, with zero training camp and such to learn the play book.

Geo
09-30-2009, 07:35 PM
We're seeing the Cedric Benson the Bears thought they were drafting with the 4th overall pick in 2005.

Hurricanes25
09-30-2009, 07:36 PM
One thing that I've noticed about Benson is that he gets better throughout the game.

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 07:38 PM
One thing that I've noticed about Benson is that he gets better throughout the game.

Yah that's what the power backs are there for. I wasn't sure it was the tighest fit with the Bengal attack but it's obviously working out.

Geo
09-30-2009, 07:40 PM
Larry Johnson is probably that way too.

Johnson is going to be 30 years old this November. Feels like he should be younger, time really flew for him with the ups and downs of his career.

Hurricanes25
09-30-2009, 07:42 PM
Larry Johnson is probably that way too.

Johnson is going to be 30 years old this November. Feels like he should be younger, time really flew for him with the ups and downs of his career.

It feels like just yesterday when he was considered the 2nd best RB in the league and now he probabaly ranks in the bottom half of the league when it comes to starters.

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 07:53 PM
Larry Johnson is probably that way too.

Johnson is going to be 30 years old this November. Feels like he should be younger, time really flew for him with the ups and downs of his career.

He got a late start but it is very weird to think of him as the same age as Ladainian, who has been around forever it seems. and will be back this week!

PalmerToCJ
09-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Yah that's what the power backs are there for. I wasn't sure it was the tighest fit with the Bengal attack but it's obviously working out.

I can definitely understand how he would look like an odd fit from the outside but really he's basically a copy of Rudi in his prime.

Benson is much quicker this year, he's currently the 3rd rusher in the league. I don't think it will finish that way but I could definitely see him finishing in the upper half of the league. We are much more dedicated to the run than we have been the past few seasons.

CC.SD
09-30-2009, 08:01 PM
I can definitely understand how he would look like an odd fit from the outside but really he's basically a copy of Rudi in his prime.

Benson is much quicker this year, he's currently the 3rd rusher in the league. I don't think it will finish that way but I could definitely see him finishing in the upper half of the league. We are much more dedicated to the run than we have been the past few seasons.

That's awesome because Carson can really lower the boom if he gets some decent play action.

SenorGato
09-30-2009, 11:58 PM
I put Harris, Beason, and Willis in the same class as players. All three have similar traits and styles, with Willis being the most publicized.

What's hurt Harris is the injuries, which neither of the other 2 have a history of (I think).

Saints-Tigers
10-01-2009, 12:12 AM
I always thought Benson's problems were more on the Bears than on himself.

If you are a high pick, you always take the blame though.

yo123
10-01-2009, 12:13 AM
He was good for us last year too, with zero training camp and such to learn the play book.


Good is stretching it for a guy who averaged 3.5 YPC, he wasn't among the top 25 RB's in the league.

Rosebud
10-01-2009, 12:48 AM
I always thought Benson's problems were more on the Bears than on himself.

If you are a high pick, you always take the blame though.

The talent was always there, but the effort just wasn't with the bears.

CC.SD
10-01-2009, 12:50 AM
The talent was always there, but the effort just wasn't with the bears.

He went into funk mode after they didn't hand him the starting spot. In retrospect they probably should have just given it to him, after all he was the 4th overall pick and worth a ton of cash. Make him carry the load and earn that money, forget manning up etc.

sweetness34
10-01-2009, 12:54 AM
Isn't it odd that Cedric Benson looks like the better player than Matt Forte?

It is extremely difficult to be an effective running back when you are being hit in the backfield every other play. I honestly question whether or not AD could run behind our line.

Everyone is saying that Forte is being "hesitant." Well no **** Sherlock, a guy who needs holes to be effective is being hesitant because his line can't open up any. Matt isn't a north-south type running back and without an OL to block for him he's going to continue to struggle.

His versatility is what keeps him valuable though. He is very good out of the backfield and he can also line up out-wide when need be. Plus he's studly at pass blocking.

Benson always had the talent, he was just a dumbass, crybaby. He's also learned how to pass block since he went to Cincinnati (he was terrible at that with the Bears). Put Cedric behind our line though and he'd be struggling as well.

sweetness34
10-01-2009, 12:55 AM
He went into funk mode after they didn't hand him the starting spot. In retrospect they probably should have just given it to him, after all he was the 4th overall pick and worth a ton of cash. Make him carry the load and earn that money, forget manning up etc.

Well there was a guy named Thomas Jones in front of him who was pretty damn good that year. And again, Benson was horrible in pass protection when he got to Chicago. He also couldn't catch a cold out of the backfield. That's why he didn't play.

BlindSite
10-01-2009, 02:44 AM
I remember not long ago Curtis (NYG), Tiki Barber, Tomlinson, Warrick Dunn, Stephen Davis were considered some of the best in the NFL. Running backs really do change quickly in their level of play.

Bengalsrocket
10-01-2009, 03:48 AM
Good is stretching it for a guy who averaged 3.5 YPC, he wasn't among the top 25 RB's in the league.

Well last year we were terrible. We had a back up QB starting for 13 games. This lead to us playing from behind nearly the whole season, which led to a lot of passing in the 3rd and 4th quarter. And anyone who watches football regularly knows that halfbacks get their best yardage in the 3rd and 4th quarter. If you took Adrian Peterson's 3rd and 4th quarter yardage away his YPC would be significantly lower.

Secondly, Cedric isn't the kind of back that is going to rip off huge runs to increase his yards per a carry like a franchise type back. And we're not asking him to be that kind of a back. What we want is simply someone who can pound it 25-30 times straight up the middle and fall forward so we can control the clock and use play action.

Anyways, the following might illustrate some things for us:

Week 12 v. Pittsburgh: 16 attempts for 35 yards and no touchdowns.
Week 13 v. Baltimore: 10 attempts for 17 yards and no touchdowns.
Week 14 v. Indianapolis: 16 attempts for 57 yards and no touchdowns.
Week 15 v. Washington: 21 attempts for 73 yards and no touchdowns.
Week 16 v. Cleveland: 38 attempts for 171 yards no touchdowns.
Week 17 v. Kansas City: 25 attempts 111 yards 1 touchdown.

Admittedly there are actually two variables changing here. The first and obvious one is that he gets better each and every week. The second one, which works against my argument, is that the defenses get easier and easier each week.

Take what you want from those statistics. However, I think it's pretty unfair to call out his yards per a carry against him with all things put into consideration. He got thrown into the fire early and didn't fair well against tough defenses, I'm alright with that.

Dam8610
10-01-2009, 10:34 AM
[/LIST]I know, he's starting to act way too much like Peyton Manning, and it's irking me. He's turning into a big crybaby simp. What happened to Ice-In-The-Veins Brady?
;)

I think you'll enjoy this, I certainly did:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/columns/story?page=simmons/patriots/090925

Miami playing it safe in a tie game with four minutes to play, going with a lame inside draw on third-and-6 and settling for a field goal -- anyone who followed football even a little this decade muttered to themselves, "That's a huge mistake, Manning will make them pay." And he did. The guy many people (including me) once questioned in crunch time has turned into the league's premier assassin. He gives them their swagger. Single-handedly.

:D

awfullyquiet
10-01-2009, 10:42 AM
He went into funk mode after they didn't hand him the starting spot. In retrospect they probably should have just given it to him, after all he was the 4th overall pick and worth a ton of cash. Make him carry the load and earn that money, forget manning up etc.

The O-Line also didn't like his attitude. And that O-Line was filled with 'tuded players. Pretty much it was mutiny against Benson.

Shiver
10-01-2009, 12:49 PM
Isn't it time to recognize how great Vernon Davis has been for the 49ers? He has rooted out his immaturity, he is now a team captain and is having a great season as a pass catcher and blocker. He has finally lived up to his talent.

Where is Mercedes Lewis again?

bigbluedefense
10-01-2009, 12:54 PM
Isn't it time to recognize how great Vernon Davis has been for the 49ers? He has rooted out his immaturity, he is now a team captain and is having a great season as a pass catcher and blocker. He has finally lived up to his talent.

Where is Mercedes Lewis again?

1 game makes a great season?

Let's see him do it all season. I think we get that benefit of the doubt as naysayers considering he hasn't done dogshit for the past 3 years of his career.

CC.SD
10-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Well there was a guy named Thomas Jones in front of him who was pretty damn good that year. And again, Benson was horrible in pass protection when he got to Chicago. He also couldn't catch a cold out of the backfield. That's why he didn't play.

Yah I definitely understand, and I payed attention to that situation for a while, starting from that ridiculous holdout. I guess I just don't think Thomas Jones and some O-line players attitude was worth the busting of a 4th overall pick. Obviously it was just an unfortunate situation all around, you can't blame the Bears.

sweetness34
10-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Benson was also involved in two off the field incidents within a few weeks of each other. These incidents + coming off a terrible season in which he was a major disappointment for us = why he was released.

Rosebud
10-01-2009, 03:34 PM
Benson was also involved in two off the field incidents within a few weeks of each other. These incidents + coming off a terrible season in which he was a major disappointment for us = why he was released.

Dude was on a boat.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-01-2009, 08:46 PM
1 game makes a great season?

Let's see him do it all season. I think we get that benefit of the doubt as naysayers considering he hasn't done dogshit for the past 3 years of his career.

Agreed.

Granted, Davis looked better catching the ball against the Vikings than I've ever seen him look. His receiving game has bordered on warranting the title of "painfully awkward" in past years and he obviously looks much better than that this year. I don't really expect him to perform like that all year, but it does look like he's taken a major step forward. Whether he can display that consistently and, if he does, if statistical production is a sure bet on that offense is much less assured. But it's nice to see him getting better.

CC.SD
10-01-2009, 09:56 PM
Dude was on a boat.

Let's do it.

R7yfISlGLNU