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View Full Version : Gaines Adams traded to the Bears


Da-Phins
10-16-2009, 07:27 PM
per Adam S.

Filed to ESPN: Tampa Bay traded defensive end Gaines Adams to the Chicago Bears for a 2010 draft pick thought to be a second-round pick.

RaiderNation
10-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Good trade for both teams. Bears need help getting to the QB, Tampa needs all the picks they can get

Don Vito
10-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Wow, the guy certainly is talented. Perfect fit for da Bears defense too, now lets see if he can put it all together.

Splat
10-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Interesting...

HawkeyeFan
10-16-2009, 07:31 PM
What the ****, this irritates me. The rich get richer while the poor get more poor.

Why can't the Rams pull this crap off?

thebow305
10-16-2009, 07:33 PM
I'm not so sure he's worth a 2nd round pick at this point. He's been kind of a bust so far. I would have probably given a 3rd, but that's it.

Splat
10-16-2009, 07:34 PM
Why can't the Rams pull this crap off?

I was going to say some thing but then I remembered I'm a Chiefs fan so I got nothing.

senormysterioso
10-16-2009, 07:34 PM
So the Bears don't have a first or second rounder again next year, sweet

HawkeyeFan
10-16-2009, 07:37 PM
I was going to say some thing but then I remembered I'm a Chiefs fan so I got nothing.
I as a Rams fan would rather trade picks for proven young players liek this, rather than taking a shot in the dark in the draft.

RaiderNation
10-16-2009, 07:37 PM
What the ****, this irritates me. The rich get richer while the poor get more poor.

Why can't the Rams pull this crap off?

Only player I can think of that a team would want is Steven Jackson. And you guys probably want to much or dont want to get rid of him

Geo
10-16-2009, 07:37 PM
What the ****, this irritates me. The rich get richer while the poor get more poor.

Why can't the Rams pull this crap off?
Chris Long to the Colts? ;)

awfullyquiet
10-16-2009, 07:39 PM
So the Bears don't have a first or second rounder again next year, sweet

Gaines Adams is our second round pick next year?

BOOSH!

i'll take a known commodity for a second round pick.

HawkeyeFan
10-16-2009, 07:40 PM
Chris Long to the Colts? ;)
I said GET younger players, not trade them.

Wootylicous
10-16-2009, 07:40 PM
What the **** where did this came from ? :|

Good trade for the bears i like Gaines Adams a lot !

WMD
10-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Jeff Backus is gonna cry himself to sleep tonight.

wonderbredd24
10-16-2009, 07:43 PM
I'd be puzzled if I was a Bears fan

Maybe they can get the light to go on for Gaines Adams, but not picking until round 3?

It's not like this draft is short on defensive line talent either

And as far as the Bucs are concerned, I hope this works out better than bending over for Kellen Winslow did

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Gaines Adams is our second round pick next year?

BOOSH!

i'll take a known commodity for a second round pick.
itsawfullyquiet ‎(02:32):
QTF.
WTF.
itsawfullyquiet ‎(02:33):
i'd rather have TO
honestly
itsawfullyquiet ‎(02:34):
too much for him.
way too much for him.

Hypocrite!

awfullyquiet
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
I'd be puzzled if I was a Bears fan

Maybe they can get the light to go on for Gaines Adams, but not picking until round 3?

It's not like this draft is short on defensive line talent either

And as far as the Bucs are concerned, I hope this works out better than bending over for Kellen Winslow did

Monte Kiffen -> Rod Marinelli -> Lovie Smith...
He's Marinelli's guy, because he was Kiffen's guy. It's pretty much as simple as that...

awfullyquiet
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
Hypocrite!

I WAS OVERREACTING.

SORRY.

Bengalsrocket
10-16-2009, 07:48 PM
I as a Rams fan would rather trade picks for proven young players liek this, rather than taking a shot in the dark in the draft.

The draft is risky sure, but there are some franchise that build well through the draft and it makes them perennial play off contenders unlike teams who sometimes that shoot through free agency and get big years occasionally but don't consistently make it to the post season. Colts / Steelers / Chargers / Giants are 4 teams that come to mind, all of which get the bulk of their talent through the draft and make the play offs more often than they don't.

I would rather be a team that consistently hits well in the draft and makes the play offs every year than a team that does well in free agency or has big trades.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 07:49 PM
I'd be puzzled if I was a Bears fan

Maybe they can get the light to go on for Gaines Adams, but not picking until round 3?

It's not like this draft is short on defensive line talent either

And as far as the Bucs are concerned, I hope this works out better than bending over for Kellen Winslow did
we didnt pick till the 3rd in this years draft either...

wonderbredd24
10-16-2009, 07:50 PM
we didnt pick till the 3rd in this years draft either...

Why does your front office hate the draft?

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 07:51 PM
Why does your front office hate the draft?
because the FO usually sucked with high picks but is great in the late rounds

Bengalsrocket
10-16-2009, 07:52 PM
Why does your front office hate the draft?

They like Jay Cutler! :)

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-16-2009, 07:53 PM
Also getting a 26-year old Cutler>>>>>>>>>getting a 22-year old or whatever kid at some other position in the middle of the first.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-16-2009, 07:54 PM
They like Jay Cutler! :)


WHAT THE ****. AM I OFF MY GAME SO MUCH THAT I AM ALWAYS BEATEN TO THE PUNCH!?!?!?!

**** it. **** it all.

Bengalsrocket
10-16-2009, 07:58 PM
WHAT THE ****. AM I OFF MY GAME SO MUCH THAT I AM ALWAYS BEATEN TO THE PUNCH!?!?!?!

**** it. **** it all.

lol, it's definitely true though. I mean, theirs a chance that they would have used both of the 1st round picks they gave up for Cutler on monster players that could be corner stones of their team for the next 10 years...

But there is also a chance that both are busts and the bears are stuck without a QB for 10 more years. The safer, although a little bit pricey decision was to trade for Cutler and solidify the most important position in football for the next decade.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 07:59 PM
lol, it's definitely true though. I mean, theirs a chance that they would have used both of the 1st round picks they gave up for Cutler on monster players that could be corner stones of their team for the next 10 years...

But there is also a chance that both are busts and the bears are stuck without a QB for 10 more years. The safer, although a little bit pricey decision was to trade for Cutler and solidify the most important position in football for the next decade.
the last QB and RB we picked in the first round were Grossman and Benson, so yea Cutler is nicer

Shiver
10-16-2009, 08:01 PM
Good trade for the Bucs. They trade a chronic underachiever for a 2nd round pick in a deep draft.

Ward
10-16-2009, 08:02 PM
This is a classic Dan Snyder move, but no Dan Snyder!

awfullyquiet
10-16-2009, 08:04 PM
the last QB and RB we picked in the first round were Grossman and Benson, so yea Cutler is nicer

i concur.
speaking of cumslingers... how's he doing in texas?

MidwayMonster31
10-16-2009, 08:07 PM
I like this trade. Ogunleye is on the last year of his contract and we need to replace him. Adams may have had some questions about his effort, but he had no help around him at Tampa. This could be a breaker for us. We have young talent at the defensive line, we just need them to develop and come together.
We probably would've drafted a defensive end in the second round anyway, so this works.

Brodeur
10-16-2009, 08:07 PM
the last QB and RB we picked in the first round were Grossman and Benson, so yea Cutler is nicer

Benson > Forte.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Question:

Who else played on the Line with gaines adams?
truly ask that yourself.

senormysterioso
10-16-2009, 08:17 PM
I would not wanna be the one on the hook for 4 more years of that $42 million contract.

regoob2
10-16-2009, 08:20 PM
Benson > Forte.
Never thought Id agree with that.

Brodeur
10-16-2009, 08:23 PM
Question:

Who else played on the Line with gaines adams?
truly ask that yourself.

Mega bust Ryan Sims, still in the league? Chris Hovan, and Jimmy Wilkerson (who has 5! sacks this year).

wonderbredd24
10-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Question:

Who else played on the Line with gaines adams?
truly ask that yourself.

If that was the only problem with Adams, they could simply draft Suh or McCoy in April and help him out and make their DLine an obvious strength.

Evidently, the problems for Adams go deeper than simply being the only guy worth a damn.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Never thought Id agree with that.
Bengals Oline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolving door >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bears Oline > lions Oline

If that was the only problem with Adams, they could simply draft Suh or McCoy in April and help him out and make their DLine an obvious strength.

Evidently, the problems for Adams go deeper than simply being the only guy worth a damn.


Thing is, motivating a player by showing that your team is utterly bad and prolly going to be rebuilding is not a great motivator.

besides that, the bucs have a lot more holes than that

Brodeur
10-16-2009, 08:35 PM
Bengals Oline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revolving door >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bears Oline > lions Oline


Raiola's above average and Gos is improving!

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2009, 08:36 PM
Raiola's above average and Gos is improving!
Kreutz > Raiola and Williams = Gos i guess

bigbluedefense
10-16-2009, 08:58 PM
Gaines Adams is our second round pick next year?

BOOSH!

i'll take a known commodity for a second round pick.

you'll take a known disappointment over a 2nd round pick?

bigbluedefense
10-16-2009, 09:01 PM
I can see why the Bears did this, but they gave up way too much for Adams.

Adams could thrive in Chicago under Lovie and Rod, but in a draft class that will be deep at pass rusher and other areas of need for this team, I think a 2nd rounder is way too much to give up for a guy who has been a major disappointment in the NFL.

I wasn't a big Adams fan coming out, I think he can be solid, but I don't think he'll ever live up to the billing of being a #4 pick in the draft. He was never good enough to warrant being a top 10 pick.

Rosebud
10-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Well Gaines Adams has disappointed like I thought he would, but he still ended up better than Jamal Anderson, who I thought would be the player Tuck has become.

bored of education
10-16-2009, 09:08 PM
IF, a big IF, the 42 mil. dead weight does soemthing then it will be a good trade. Right now on paper, it sucks. Proven commodity? Am on the the floors of the Chicago Exchange representing the Dukes selling buffalo pellets?

Thumper
10-16-2009, 09:11 PM
Not a mind blowing trade for either side, the Bears get a player with a monstrous salary, doesn't get a consistent pass rush and is a HUGE liability against the run which will come back to bite them when they play the Vikings.

And the Bucs have basically said that Adams is a bust and they wasted a top 5 pick and the probably just lost their best defensive lineman which isn't saying much.

bigbluedefense
10-16-2009, 09:13 PM
Well Gaines Adams has disappointed like I thought he would, but he still ended up better than Jamal Anderson, who I thought would be the player Tuck has become.

I thought Anderson would be good too. Im disappointed in him.

For those that think Gaines Adams issues were bc he had no help on the dline, just watch him play. The guy's issues go far beyond help along that line. Theres a reason why he was almost benched this year.

I bet Tampa popped champagne bottles when they made the trade. Rod has a lot of work to do with this guy. For his sake, hopefully the trade energizes him and he tries to resurrect his career.

bored of education
10-16-2009, 09:19 PM
Yeah Jared Allen had the shittiest of D Line's ever and did something. Gaines has NO MOTOR. It doesn't seem he wants ot be out there. I don't care who the **** is on your team, if YOU don't try thats on you.

Caddy
10-16-2009, 09:20 PM
Ummm what?

regoob2
10-16-2009, 09:25 PM
Not a mind blowing trade for either side, the Bears get a player with a monstrous salary, doesn't get a consistent pass rush and is a HUGE liability against the run which will come back to bite them when they play the Vikings.

And the Bucs have basically said that Adams is a bust and they wasted a top 5 pick and the probably just lost their best defensive lineman which isn't saying much.

Gaines Adams (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&leaguenum=&id=4173)Defensive Lineman (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4173)7/26/2007: Signed a six-year, $42 million contract. The deal includes $18.56 million guaranteed. Another $4 million is available through incentives. 2009: $900,000, 2010: $1.08 million, 2011: $1.1 million, 2012: $1.15 million, 2013: Free Agent

Man youre right.

Not sure how were gonna manage that big $1.15 mil come 2012....

bigbluedefense
10-16-2009, 09:26 PM
Yeah Jared Allen had the shittiest of D Line's ever and did something. Gaines has NO MOTOR. It doesn't seem he wants ot be out there. I don't care who the **** is on your team, if YOU don't try thats on you.

in some cases, being the only true pass rusher on your dline actually inflates your stats bc no one is stealing sacks from you.

I just never saw it with Adams. What makes ppl think he has a higher ceiling than any 2nd round pass rusher that couldve been had in the draft?

Was it his blazing 4.8 speed? *sarcasm*

Was it his relentlessness against the run? *sarcasm*

Was it his sick arsenal of pass rush moves? *sarcasm*

Just looking back at this last draft for example and the 2nd round DEs that came out of it, I think Id take every single one of them over Adams.

Brown, Sintim, Barwin, Kruger. Id take all of them over Adams right now.

i had to throw in the sarcasms in case ppl actually thought he possessed all those traits.

Caddy
10-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Gaines Adams (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&leaguenum=&id=4173)Defensive Lineman (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4173)7/26/2007: Signed a six-year, $42 million contract. The deal includes $18.56 million guaranteed. Another $4 million is available through incentives. 2009: $900,000, 2010: $1.08 million, 2011: $1.1 million, 2012: $1.15 million, 2013: Free Agent

Man youre right.

Not sure how were gonna manage that big $1.15 mil come 2012....

There is a lot of unaccounted for money there... Like 20 mil worth.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
10-16-2009, 09:30 PM
124 tackles 13.5 sacks 13 passes deffended 2 ints(1 td) 2 ff 1 fr since 07
Thats pretty damn good.

4th overall production, no. But hey, pretty solid out of a 2nd rounder.

bored of education
10-16-2009, 09:33 PM
124 tackles 13.5 sacks 13 passes deffended 2 ints(1 td) 2 ff 1 fr since 07
Thats pretty damn good.

4th overall production, no. But hey, pretty solid out of a 2nd rounder.

86 tackles
10 pd's is what I'm comming up with. It's OK for a 2nd rounder...that is not making 20 mil or so over the next 3-4 years.

CC.SD
10-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city

regoob2
10-16-2009, 09:36 PM
Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. cityWhy does everyone keep mentioning AP? :confused:

CC.SD
10-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Why does everyone keep mentioning AP? :confused:

I don't know, people mention Sam Bowie sometimes too.

bigbluedefense
10-16-2009, 09:37 PM
Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city

I think Adams and Levi Brown are both examples of how sometimes drafting for need can bite you in the butt if the player in said need is a considerably lower grade than the BPA available to you at that position.

2 reaches that bit each team in the butt.

I always figured, if you have a top 10 pick, chances are you should go BPA anyway bc you have more than 1 need. Thats not always the case, but most of the time it is.

regoob2
10-16-2009, 09:38 PM
I don't know, people mention Sam Bowie sometimes too.
When the Viking win 6 championships then bring up AP.

Brodeur
10-16-2009, 09:43 PM
Point of discussion #1 should be just how much of HUUUUUUGE bust Gaines Adams just became for the Bucs.

4th overall and ahead of Adrian Peterson traded less than 3 years later for a 2nd rounder from a team that's actually competitive?

b.u.s.t. city

Better than taking Mike Williams over Ware and Shawne Merriman and then trading him with Josh McCown for a 4th rounder two years later.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-16-2009, 09:44 PM
No this isn't a Snyder type move. Synder doesn't trade for young players, he trades for old players. We traded a 2nd for Jason Taylor, a 2nd and 5th for TJ Duckett, this isn't a horrible trade. Trading for young talent isn't much different than drafting.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-16-2009, 09:44 PM
When the Viking win 6 championships then bring up AP.

He was talking about Charles Barkley.

CC.SD
10-16-2009, 09:45 PM
Better than taking Mike Williams over Ware and Shawne Merriman and then trading him with Josh McCown for a 4th rounder two years later.

That's true but big mistakes are magnified much more at the top of the draft. And honestly that's not even the Lions worst decision in recent years.

CC.SD
10-16-2009, 09:48 PM
I think Adams and Levi Brown are both examples of how sometimes drafting for need can bite you in the butt if the player in said need is a considerably lower grade than the BPA available to you at that position.

2 reaches that bit each team in the butt.

I always figured, if you have a top 10 pick, chances are you should go BPA anyway bc you have more than 1 need. Thats not always the case, but most of the time it is.

Those are definitely good examples. Although with OTs such as Levi Brown and Joe Thomas (possibly the last time I'll ever put these two in the same sentence) have to be considered investments for the future and the production you see out of them is measured by the general performance of their offense, and more particularly the O-line and it's ability to impose it's will on a game.

Most other position players are easier to put up against the dynamic players drafted around them, like say Gaines Adams and AD.

LonghornsLegend
10-16-2009, 10:07 PM
This is so surprising, at first I want to think it was a nice aggressive move by Chicago, but seriously, who drafts a guy top 5 and in a few years trades him for a 2nd rounder? It's painfully obvious he was a bust for them to consider this move, so it's a risk that he turns into the talent that made him a top pick.


I really hope a 4-3 team steps up and makes this type of deal for Dorsey, I love him as a 2nd round pick to a 4-3 team because I feel like the system is holding him back more so then talent or motor.

Splat
10-16-2009, 10:07 PM
Dumping Adams eats up $15 million in cap space for the Bucs (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/16/dumping-adams-eats-up-15-million-in-cap-space-for-the-bucs/)

SchizophrenicBatman
10-16-2009, 10:09 PM
This is a classic Dan Snyder move, but no Dan Snyder!

dan snyder trades picks for hasbeens

gaines adams is a never was

Brodeur
10-16-2009, 10:10 PM
dan snyder trades picks for hasbeens

gaines adams is a never was

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364444

Monomach
10-16-2009, 10:18 PM
Gaines Adams' signing bonus was super-frontloaded, so everyone talking about the Bucs unloading a huge contract are uninformed. He made almost $25 million in his first two years, and this year, the Bucs take a $11 million cap hit for trading him.

The Bears are on the hook for exactly jack and **** salary-wise (about a million each year for the life of the contract). If Gaines Adams were to re-enter the draft, I'd feel fine about risking a second rounder on the chance that Rod Marinelli can make him a superstar.

Even if the guy puts up 6 sacks a year forever, he's an upgrade on our right side. If he improves a little, he's an upgrade over our left side, too.

I'm 100% fine with the deal. We were going to use that pick on a DE next year, anyway. Now we should ship off a 4th rounder for TO.

prock
10-16-2009, 10:57 PM
cant imagine that this is a good move for the bucs. unless i dont know some inside information with turmoil in the locker room or something, i think the bears are getting a steal. gaines adams is a hell of a talent, maybe he just needed a change of scenary. looks like the bucs went backwards.

Rosebud
10-16-2009, 10:59 PM
cant imagine that this is a good move for the bucs. unless i dont know some inside information with turmoil in the locker room or something, i think the bears are getting a steal. gaines adams is a hell of a talent, maybe he just needed a change of scenary. looks like the bucs went backwards.

What makes adams a hell of a talent? His unspectacular explosiveness, his inability to play the run, his limited pass rush arsenal?

prock
10-16-2009, 11:00 PM
i am not a bucs fan, havent seen gaines adams play more than once or twice, i just assume that you have to have an exceptional amount of talent to be drafted 4th overall. maybe im wrong, but i feel as though it is an accurate assumption.

prock
10-16-2009, 11:16 PM
i just watched some gaines adams highlights and read up on him a bit. i take back everything i said and am embarassed for defending him. he is a bust. good move by the bucs to swallow their pride and cut their losses while adams still has some value.

toonsterwu
10-16-2009, 11:29 PM
There hasn't much that was going to surprise me to get me to want to post ... including those ridiculous rumors on TO. I am pleasantly surprised, shocked and happy with the trade. I'm not sure what to make of it for the short term, other than awesome DL wave off the dge, but it actually answers a question I had about this upcoming offseason as the Bears had to find a younger DE to anchor the DL with.

Very fascinated with the trade, but that does leave the Bears shorthanded for next year's draft. That said, franchise QB and hopefully a stud DE under Rod's tutelage would be well worth it. If all goes well, that leaves our biggest needs for next year looking for a bigger WR, maybe a number 2 back, maybe a backup TE (although here's hoping Kellen Davis develops), maybe a young depth LB, and DB help. Not exactly needs that demand early picks.

wordofi
10-16-2009, 11:33 PM
Those are definitely good examples. Although with OTs such as Levi Brown and Joe Thomas (possibly the last time I'll ever put these two in the same sentence) have to be considered investments for the future and the production you see out of them is measured by the general performance of their offense, and more particularly the O-line and it's ability to impose it's will on a game.

Most other position players are easier to put up against the dynamic players drafted around them, like say Gaines Adams and AD.

The Brown aren't regretting drafting Joe Thomas. And what's funny about this is that Wisenhunt would have drafted Brown even if Thomas was still on the board.

toonsterwu
10-16-2009, 11:33 PM
i just watched some gaines adams highlights and read up on him a bit. i take back everything i said and am embarassed for defending him. he is a bust. good move by the bucs to swallow their pride and cut their losses while adams still has some value.

Sure, so far he's a bust. And he very well might be a bust. But it's a risk that, as a Bears fan, that I'm pleased with. He's still young enough, and the chances of the Bears landing an end with that talent in the 2nd round next year was unlikely. While Rod Marinelli was bad as HC, I am a huge fan of his as a DL coach. Again, don't look it as a move necessarily for this year. It's as much a move about next year, for me, and it gives Marinelli more time to work with him. This year, Adams is essentially a 3rd/4th end ... and that's a solid 3rd/4th end, imo.

NotRickJames
10-16-2009, 11:35 PM
What an excellent move for the Bucs. They get rid of a scrub and get a second rounder for him. It doesn't get much better, unless it's a first rounder.

The Bears FO should be ashamed. They don't have a single day one pick now, and they gave their only one up for a bonafide scrub.

Tampa 2 4 life
10-16-2009, 11:41 PM
Chicago overpaid for Gaines. Good trade.

Hurricanes25
10-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Good trade for the Bucs but I think Adams still has some upside.

Ward
10-16-2009, 11:43 PM
Sure, so far he's a bust. And he very well might be a bust. But it's a risk that, as a Bears fan, that I'm pleased with. He's still young enough, and the chances of the Bears landing an end with that talent in the 2nd round next year was unlikely. While Rod Marinelli was bad as HC, I am a huge fan of his as a DL coach. Again, don't look it as a move necessarily for this year. It's as much a move about next year, for me, and it gives Marinelli more time to work with him. This year, Adams is essentially a 3rd/4th end ... and that's a solid 3rd/4th end, imo.

How hard is it to coach Tommie Harris (1st round), Adewale Ogunleye (had to trade for), and now Gaines Adams (former top 5 pick, traded for). Who are examples of guys Marinelli has coached up? I ask out of sincerity because I don't know everything there is to know about the Bears.

toonsterwu
10-16-2009, 11:46 PM
Well, I guess this is a trade that, for me, is a win-win for both sides, then. I certainly understand the desire to clear deck and getting a mid-late 2nd for Gaines, after his disappointment, is a nice plus. I still think, though, that this is a very good move for the Bears to get Gaines in and working with Rod Marinelli for a year before he's actually expected to do anything. If they don't see enough out of him, they can always spend on Adewale or sign another FA. Again, this was likely to be the dominant Bears need for this upcoming offseason, even perhaps moreso than WR. I still say that the Bears wouldn't have found a DE with Gaines talent at their likely mid-late part of the 2nd round.

toonsterwu
10-16-2009, 11:50 PM
How hard is it to coach Tommie Harris (1st round), Adewale Ogunleye (had to trade for), and now Gaines Adams (former top 5 pick, traded for). Who are examples of guys Marinelli has coached up? I ask out of sincerity because I don't know everything there is to know about the Bears.

He's actually made all of them better this year. Adewale and Alex Brown didn't exactly come off quality seasons. Mark Anderson has, in what I've seen so far, been better than last year. Marcus Harrison looks better, and Israel Idonije, always useful before, seems to have more bounce, for lack of a better term right now. Short of it is, he's made them better pass rushers based on technique and gameplanning, which is all you can expect out of a coach. The Bears pass rush really wasn't all that good last year. Certainly, the increased Ron Rivera type defense has helped a bit, but the DL has been getting better penetration early in the year.

Tommie says Rod has made a huge difference, although part of me thinks it's a healthy Tommie, and part of me thinks that the Bears have been utilizing him better.

TitanHope
10-16-2009, 11:54 PM
I think this trade could very well benefit both teams.

For the Bears, they get a former Top 5 overall pick who's just entering his 3rd season in the NFL. Bears have one of the best DL coaches in the NFL in Rod Marinelli, and it's not like the scheme will be different at all in Chicago. If they can get more out of him than Tampa could, which apparently they think they can, then this move could pay off for them.

For the Bucs, they're not getting what they want out of Adams, and were able to find a trade partner who would give them great value for him. It sucks to miss on a Top 5 pick, but at least you were able to sell high before Adams's lack of production possibly continued and his value gradually decreased more and more. They now get a 2nd RD pick to invest toward their rebuilding effort, and can move on.

I'd probably be pretty optomistic over this trade if I were a fan of either team. The gamble seems worth it for the Bears, and the compensation is generous for the Bucs.

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 12:06 AM
Wowwwww........

I love this trade. With O-Gun up for free agency next year we needed a replacement. I just wonder how they are going to get everyone playing time.

Rod Marinelli FTW!!

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 12:08 AM
Also, Minnesota alum Stylez G. White moves into the starting lineup!! Best name ever!!

Xenos
10-17-2009, 12:40 AM
The Brown aren't regretting drafting Joe Thomas. And what's funny about this is that Wisenhunt would have drafted Brown even if Thomas was still on the board.
What was his reasoning again for picking Brown even if Thomas was available?

Scotty D
10-17-2009, 01:51 AM
Rod Marinelli does not turn **** to gold.

JFLO
10-17-2009, 02:56 AM
Wowzerzzz!!!!

FUNBUNCHER
10-17-2009, 03:14 AM
Bears still need maybe another WR, a couple if not more Olineman, and maybe depth at LB, help in the secondary. But clearly this a team charting a path towards the SB.

I would bet that Adams will be a better player in Chicago than he was in Tampa. But it is worrisome that he never flashed for the Bucs, (10+ sacks).

It's not like they drafted him and then played him at OLB. All he had to do was line up wide and abuse OTs, which clearly he couldn't do.

IMO, the Bears should have kept that 2nd rounder and tried to sign a LB, Olineman, or WR - positions that could have helped put Chicago closer to a title than signing Adams.

Gay Ork Wang
10-17-2009, 04:19 AM
Bears still need maybe another WR, a couple if not more Olineman, and maybe depth at LB, help in the secondary. But clearly this a team charting a path towards the SB.

I would bet that Adams will be a better player in Chicago than he was in Tampa. But it is worrisome that he never flashed for the Bucs, (10+ sacks).

It's not like they drafted him and then played him at OLB. All he had to do was line up wide and abuse OTs, which clearly he couldn't do.

IMO, the Bears should have kept that 2nd rounder and tried to sign a LB, Olineman, or WR - positions that could have helped put Chicago closer to a title than signing Adams.
we need more depth at LB? really? we dont need them we have at least 4-5 starting caliber LBs if not more. both the top2 MLBs and the SLB where out and we hardly lost a beat. What makes you believe we need a LB

Caddy
10-17-2009, 06:51 AM
Seems like this trade is getting an almost overwhelmingly positive response from the people that matter; Bucs and Bears fans.

I guess this trade is truly win-win because both parties fans seem to be happy for the most part.

Gay Ork Wang
10-17-2009, 06:59 AM
i guess seeing what Marinelli did from last year to this year makes us really confident about him.

Caddy
10-17-2009, 07:05 AM
i guess seeing what Marinelli did from last year to this year makes us really confident about him.

Seeing Gaines under achieve for this last 2 and a bit seasons is why we are happy.

He won't be horrible, but I seriously doubt he'll be a 10+ sack guy.

etk
10-17-2009, 07:55 AM
Well, I guess this is a trade that, for me, is a win-win for both sides, then. I certainly understand the desire to clear deck and getting a mid-late 2nd for Gaines, after his disappointment, is a nice plus. I still think, though, that this is a very good move for the Bears to get Gaines in and working with Rod Marinelli for a year before he's actually expected to do anything. If they don't see enough out of him, they can always spend on Adewale or sign another FA. Again, this was likely to be the dominant Bears need for this upcoming offseason, even perhaps moreso than WR. I still say that the Bears wouldn't have found a DE with Gaines talent at their likely mid-late part of the 2nd round.

I agree.

And even if Gaines does succeed, I won't be upset. 2 years and a bit was more than enough for our staff to pass judgment on him.

Splat
10-17-2009, 09:32 AM
Seems like this trade is getting an almost overwhelmingly positive response from the people that matter; Bucs and Bears fans.

The rest of us don't matter. :(

Shane P. Hallam
10-17-2009, 09:38 AM
This is so surprising, at first I want to think it was a nice aggressive move by Chicago, but seriously, who drafts a guy top 5 and in a few years trades him for a 2nd rounder? It's painfully obvious he was a bust for them to consider this move, so it's a risk that he turns into the talent that made him a top pick.


I really hope a 4-3 team steps up and makes this type of deal for Dorsey, I love him as a 2nd round pick to a 4-3 team because I feel like the system is holding him back more so then talent or motor.

Worked for them for McFarland! But hey, the Bears won't have very many picks in this upcoming draft not.

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 10:57 AM
I understand that by 4th pick in the draft standards Gaines has been a bust, but if there was a late 2nd round pick that had 13 sacks in his first two years, I wouldn't consider him a bust.

bigbluedefense
10-17-2009, 11:16 AM
I understand that by 4th pick in the draft standards Gaines has been a bust, but if there was a late 2nd round pick that had 13 sacks in his first two years, I wouldn't consider him a bust.

Sacks don't tell the whole story though. He's been abysmal vs the run.

Again, I understand why Chicago did this, and I can see where they're coming from, but I don't agree with it.

Maybe I overvalue picks, but I think Chicago gave up too much. A 3rd round pick would be good, but a 2nd? I think thats too much.

awfullyquiet
10-17-2009, 11:18 AM
The Bears FO should be ashamed. They don't have a single day one pick now, and they gave their only one up for a bonafide scrub.

Why? because They'd magically be free from picking up a scrub in the draft?

The difference between this and using that pick in the draft... is that you know what you're getting, you have 2 years of NFL level competition, 2 years that Marinelli can do the things that Gaines is Lacking. Focus and Consistency in Technique... Most former players credit Rod for improving both of those tremendously. Do the little things right all the time, that's the difference.

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 11:45 AM
Sacks don't tell the whole story though. He's been abysmal vs the run.

Again, I understand why Chicago did this, and I can see where they're coming from, but I don't agree with it.

Maybe I overvalue picks, but I think Chicago gave up too much. A 3rd round pick would be good, but a 2nd? I think thats too much.
We've had this conversation before, but I could really care less what my DE's do against the run if they can produce a pass rush. Let's say it's the 54th pick (I think 9-10 wins is reasonable for the Bears). The last 5 guys at 54 are:

2009- Phil Loadholt
2008- Jason Jones
2007- Turk McBride
2006- Bernard Pollard
2005- Eric Shelton

We'll see what Loadholt does, but I'd take Gaines over the other 4 no question.

Splat
10-17-2009, 11:53 AM
2007- Turk McBride
2006- Bernard Pollard

Thanks Herm there all ready gone...

bigbluedefense
10-17-2009, 11:55 AM
We've had this conversation before, but I could really care less what my DE's do against the run if they can produce a pass rush. Let's say it's the 54th pick (I think 9-10 wins is reasonable for the Bears). The last 5 guys at 54 are:

2009- Phil Loadholt
2008- Jason Jones
2007- Turk McBride
2006- Bernard Pollard
2005- Eric Shelton

We'll see what Loadholt does, but I'd take Gaines over the other 4 no question.

Its not fair to compare him to 1 prospect taken at 54 per year though, bc there are a lot of other players that had been taken beyond 54 that are arguably better than those picks that would be considered at that moment in the draft.

With the way your oline is playing, I think youd strongly consider William Beatty at 54 this past year if you can do it over again.

I loved the Jay Cutler trade bc I think Cutler was worth every penny, but in what should be a deep draft, I don't know if it was worth trading a 2nd for a guy who's been rather mediocre so far in his career.

I know Tampa's coaching is abysmal this year, but giving up on a DE 2.5 years into his career? Isn't that a bad sign?

And its not like he played for a crappy DC for his first 2 years. If Monte Kiffin couldn't reach this guy, who will?

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Its not fair to compare him to 1 prospect taken at 54 per year though, bc there are a lot of other players that had been taken beyond 54 that are arguably better than those picks that would be considered at that moment in the draft.
But that's assuming we would make that choice. 54 was just a random number, maybe if I would have done 53 or 55 I'd get a different result, but the point is that a late 2nd really isn't that valuable of a pick.

bigbluedefense
10-17-2009, 12:05 PM
But that's assuming we would make that choice. 54 was just a random number, maybe if I would have done 53 or 55 I'd get a different result, but the point is that a late 2nd really isn't that valuable of a pick.

ok, i can see that.

whats Chicago gonna do with that oline and WR situation now without any day 1 picks?

lets assume Gaines works out, now your dline is set. Your LB core is fine, but theres still issues in the secondary, oline, and WR.

Most importantly in my eyes, the oline. im assuming with no 1st and 2nd round picks, the Bears can make a FA splash if theres a new CBA on the table?

Nalej
10-17-2009, 12:18 PM
Good trade for the Bears. A 4th overall pick for a 2nd.
They must see something in him that makes them think they can get him to reach his potential
I hope he does- dude looks like he could turn into a beast

bearsfan_51
10-17-2009, 01:04 PM
ok, i can see that.

whats Chicago gonna do with that oline and WR situation now without any day 1 picks?

lets assume Gaines works out, now your dline is set. Your LB core is fine, but theres still issues in the secondary, oline, and WR.

Most importantly in my eyes, the oline. im assuming with no 1st and 2nd round picks, the Bears can make a FA splash if theres a new CBA on the table?
Honestly I dont' think we have a WR situation. Hester, Bennet, and Knox look like a really good trio.

The secondary isn't great, but with our system it doesn't need to be, and it's probably not something we'd spend a top pick on anyway. Adding Gaines helps our secondary if he can get a pass rush.

Offensive line is definitely the biggest issue going forward. The hope is probably that Pace has another year in him. If not, Chris Williams goes to LT and Kevin Schafer starts. Not ideal, but passable I think.

On top of all of that, the biggest situation is if O-Gun leaves and we have nobody to take his spot. You can't run this defense without a good pass rush.

psupride1131
10-17-2009, 01:34 PM
On top of all of that, the biggest situation is if O-Gun leaves and we have nobody to take his spot. You can't run this defense without a good pass rush.

That completely justifies the trade for the bears IMO. They year they made it to the Superbowl their pass rush was awesome. Their run D is already good, they just need a consistent rush off the edge to save their mediocre secondary some time.

Geo
10-17-2009, 02:22 PM
I like this trade for both sides, with maybe the slight edge to Chicago.

Tampa wasn't going to get the best out of Gaines Adams, especially with Monte Kiffin gone, so getting a 2nd round pick now is big to their rebuilding effort. Unless they blow the pick of course, but that goes for any team in the Draft and so on.

I think there's a great chance that Chicago can get more out of Adams, if not the best. He's a very good fit for their defense. Didn't Marinelli, when he was HC of Detroit, love Adams? Tampa at #4 wouldn't give up what Millen was asking for in a trade, so Detroit stayed at #2 and took Calvin Johnson. But Marinelli gets to work with the guy he wanted now, giving the Bears a talented young pass rusher that they sorely needed.

In a sort of ironic way, maybe the Bears benefit from this former 4th overall pick as Cincinnati benefits from their former 4th overall pick Benson.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
10-17-2009, 04:18 PM
Yes Marinelli loved him. Holy crap, how bad would that be if that trade happened. Gaines Adams to Detroit and no Calvin. Thats the only time Millens WR fetish paid off.

Marinelli will help him. Marinelli was a doofus head coach and didn't know how to run an enitre defense nor did his son in law Barry but our Dline did get better when we had some talent(2007) as Chicago does have talent on their Dline. Redding became a decent DT instead of a nobody DE, DeVries had a good 2007 somehow for being a career backup,Avril looked decent as a rookie,DeWayne White had good starts to the seasons in 2007/2008 before he got hurt and now sucks this year and is hurt again,Shaun Rogers had his best year as a Lion in 2007,hurt in 2006 with Marinelli(then was stupidly traded for no talent), even James Hall in the beginning of 2006 had a good number of sacks before he got hurt on IR and traded in 2007 offseason. Only guys Marinelli didn't help was Kalimba Edwards and Shaun Cody. As far as run D though Marinelli doesn't help that much, he's more of a pass rush specialist coach IMO.

awfullyquiet
10-17-2009, 07:11 PM
Tampa wasn't going to get the best out of Gaines Adams, especially with Monte Kiffin gone, so getting a 2nd round pick now is big to their rebuilding effort. Unless they blow the pick of course, but that goes for any team in the Draft and so on.

I think that's a huge key to this.

New System, New Guy. Get the max value... and luckily for the Bears, he's not a bad fit, good size, good speed, and Rod's guy... I think for all the people who say 'hey, he can't coach. look what he did in detroit' are clearly blinded by the fact, he coached a team... Now he spend every waking hour crafting and building these players if he has to, instead of 'playing the detroit game'.

Monomach
10-17-2009, 11:27 PM
I know Tampa's coaching is abysmal this year, but giving up on a DE 2.5 years into his career? Isn't that a bad sign?Good players have been given up on by bad coaches many times. It's not exactly rare in the NFL.

And its not like he played for a crappy DC for his first 2 years. If Monte Kiffin couldn't reach this guy, who will?

Coordinators aren't line coaches. I've never seen a quote from Simeon Rice or Warren Sapp that Monte Kiffin taught them how to be better linemen...but I have seen them say that about Marinelli. Kiffin was a linebacker coach.

Years as a D line coach
Marinelli: 26
Kiffin: 0

BlindSite
10-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Gaines has potential, he's still increidbly quick off the snap and he's more powerful than he's given credit for. He just hasn't gotten down those few key moves that a lot of DE's use to extreme extents like Freeney and Allen to wreck opposing lines. In Chicago he could be a very good situational guy.

A little known fact too is that in his first two years he actually has more sacks, hurries and hits on the QB than super Mario in Houston, so he's not really a bust.

Then again a second isn't exactly what I'd want to pay for him. I suppose this is just one of those "wait and see" moves.