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Shane P. Hallam
03-10-2007, 05:16 PM
Why don't we all post them in the same thread?

skarocksoi
03-10-2007, 05:18 PM
I dont know. I made a similar thread to this one a while ago that no one really paid attention to, so feel free to lock that one and we can use this one instead.

TheGunShow
03-10-2007, 08:39 PM
I'll start it off. I'll try to use player rankings to make this believable.

RD1- Ted Ginn, Jr. WR Ohio St.
Just mixing it up. Ginn has world class speed and immediately becomes a nice vertical threat and dangerous return man. You can't teach speed but you can teach route running. He will be our #3 for acouple of years until Ward retires and though might not have the receiving yards you would want his total yards will be amazing.

RD2- Tony Ugoh OT Arkansas
Has amazing feet and strength. Big bodied with long arms. Moves like a TE. Will need to learn pass protection a little more since he played in a run oriented offense. But has LT potential and will learn play RT for a few years. Replacement for Smith perhaps.

RD3- Brian Robison OLB Texas
Can play DE in the 4-3 and OLB in the 3-4. Has great athleticism. Sack numbers never great but seems to have a nack for getting into the backfield with career 42 TFL. But he is crazy athletic and said is willing to play or do whatever the coaches ask of him in the next level.

RD4- Anthony Waters ILB Clemson
Waters had two big seasons as a sophomore and junior then an injury had him only play limited action last year. But before he was a gifted athlete that was always making plays in the backfield. Has good coverage skills and the size to cover the TE.

RD5- John Talley CB Duke
Career 33 PBU's 18 INT's for 395 yards. Great coverage guy. Natural ability and understands the game. Knock on him is size and speed. Both average at 5-11 and 180lbs with 4.55 speed. But has a nice burst and plays bigger than he is. A true football player.

RD6- Kolby Smith RB Louisville
Perfect compliment to Willie Parker. 5-11 220lbs. Has nice hands and good up the gut runner. Has good athleticism and a team player doing whatever has been asked of him. Was going to play FB until Bush went down and ended up leading the team in rushing with 862 yards at 5.6 yard per crack.

RD7- Kurt Quarterman OG Louisville
Big bruising roadgrader that pushed open holes for Bush and Smith. Gives us some nice depth at interior line.

skarocksoi
03-10-2007, 08:53 PM
I hate Ginn as our first round pick, but everything after that looks great. A WR in the first round two years in a row is going to start to make us look like the Lions, and it just isn't that serious of a need. Ward, Holmes, and Washington can handle the load for the most part, Wilson is good in a backup role, and Willie Reid is waiting to get a chance to play. I know we will be running more 3 reciever sets, but I think we have good enough guys to go with that. Plus throw in Miller and you have at least 4 good recievers on the field at a given time. All we really need is a little quality depth that we can groom for the future.

But again, the rest of the picks look stellar, and if we pulled off something close to that on draft day I would be happy.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 01:56 AM
I hate Ginn as our first round pick, but everything after that looks great. A WR in the first round two years in a row is going to start to make us look like the Lions, and it just isn't that serious of a need. Ward, Holmes, and Washington can handle the load for the most part, Wilson is good in a backup role, and Willie Reid is waiting to get a chance to play. I know we will be running more 3 reciever sets, but I think we have good enough guys to go with that. Plus throw in Miller and you have at least 4 good recievers on the field at a given time. All we really need is a little quality depth that we can groom for the future.

But again, the rest of the picks look stellar, and if we pulled off something close to that on draft day I would be happy.

i agree i dfont lik e ginn as our first pick, but after that i like the picks

DeathbyStat
03-11-2007, 10:11 AM
I'll start it off. I'll try to use player rankings to make this believable.

RD1- Ted Ginn, Jr. WR Ohio St.
Just mixing it up. Ginn has world class speed and immediately becomes a nice vertical threat and dangerous return man. You can't teach speed but you can teach route running. He will be our #3 for acouple of years until Ward retires and though might not have the receiving yards you would want his total yards will be amazing.

RD2- Tony Ugoh OT Arkansas
Has amazing feet and strength. Big bodied with long arms. Moves like a TE. Will need to learn pass protection a little more since he played in a run oriented offense. But has LT potential and will learn play RT for a few years. Replacement for Smith perhaps.

RD3- Brian Robison OLB Texas
Can play DE in the 4-3 and OLB in the 3-4. Has great athleticism. Sack numbers never great but seems to have a nack for getting into the backfield with career 42 TFL. But he is crazy athletic and said is willing to play or do whatever the coaches ask of him in the next level.

RD4- Anthony Waters ILB Clemson
Waters had two big seasons as a sophomore and junior then an injury had him only play limited action last year. But before he was a gifted athlete that was always making plays in the backfield. Has good coverage skills and the size to cover the TE.

RD5- John Talley CB Duke
Career 33 PBU's 18 INT's for 395 yards. Great coverage guy. Natural ability and understands the game. Knock on him is size and speed. Both average at 5-11 and 180lbs with 4.55 speed. But has a nice burst and plays bigger than he is. A true football player.

RD6- Kolby Smith RB Louisville
Perfect compliment to Willie Parker. 5-11 220lbs. Has nice hands and good up the gut runner. Has good athleticism and a team player doing whatever has been asked of him. Was going to play FB until Bush went down and ended up leading the team in rushing with 862 yards at 5.6 yard per crack.

RD7- Kurt Quarterman OG Louisville
Big bruising roadgrader that pushed open holes for Bush and Smith. Gives us some nice depth at interior line.

I know your just trying to be original but I hate Ted Ginn

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 11:17 AM
I know your just trying to be original but I hate Ted Ginn

I like Ted Gin alot. But as our number 1 pick i dont like it at all.

skarocksoi
03-11-2007, 01:16 PM
I just dont think hes a good fit for the steelers, and I just feel like he could be a huge bust. He's either gonna be a superstar reciever or a major bust. I'd rather have a guy who will be consistantly solid with a chance to be great than a guy who could swing either way.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 01:18 PM
yeah i agree, honestly id rather have jarrett than ginn

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 01:53 PM
I disagree guys, I dont want him in the first at all. However if he falls to the second id love to get him. He would actually fit the Steelers terrific. Great SPT and also a danger of a recieving threat who will spread the defense, perhaps draw a seafety on the double team deep. Leaving room for Miller in the middle. Just imagine our offense with him fora second. Pretty incrediable.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 01:54 PM
yeah i agree, honestly id rather have jarrett than ginn

I hate Jarrett

TheGunShow
03-11-2007, 02:24 PM
I just dont think hes a good fit for the steelers, and I just feel like he could be a huge bust. He's either gonna be a superstar reciever or a major bust. I'd rather have a guy who will be consistantly solid with a chance to be great than a guy who could swing either way.

I have to disagree. Worst case scenario http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MuX24Iy7XU

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 02:38 PM
I really think you guys are underating him. Hes more than a staright line deep threat you guys make him out to be.

Take a look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGyrgqOKZLg&mode=related&search=

How in H E double hockey sticks is that versatility and playmaking ability not a fit fot the Steelers.

I should prob mention those highlight dont include this year. The guys that vdamn impressive

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 03:14 PM
im not saying he isnt a good player.. he is an okay reciever and a great return man, but he just isnt a good fit for the steelers

i can show highlight videos too... of players that are better fits for us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UURS6legbxo&mode=related&search=

and say what you want about jarrett, but damn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUU_A9ZTmyk

also, 36 td's in 35 games at that point

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:08 PM
Dude, give some input, just dont say "hes not a good fit for the Steelers". Why? Why is he not a good fit. Hes a great fit. Just because hes not worthy of our first rounder doesent mean hes not a good fit.
Hes a perfect fit.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:22 PM
In DBows video i see a big reciever who is good. Though he is nowhere near as physical as everyone makes him out to be he does play with gritt. I like that.

However I also see a guy who cant outrun players,
Cannot change direction, (If he is going left/right he can only shift/deke/juke/MOVE more to the left/right.
This weakness is shown in his route running, He takes forever to come out of a cut, In the NFL he wont get any separation. That part of his game (Change of direction, shifting) is among the worst I’ve seen for an NFL hopeful.
Has a rep for drops

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:35 PM
I cant believe I actually have to critique Jarrett. Im hungry so ill keep it short and summerize. First off you picked one play, watch game tape. Im basing my critique off all games. (By the way that play wasnt all that impressive)

I see a wr who is big bodied which i love. I love his size and thats it. I would really like to like this guy as i am i sucker for the big bodied wr, i love how they can shield out corners from the ball. Which is a skill Jarrett does do well. However thats it.

He is slower than i can belive, At least he takes out the need for slow motion.
He couldnt get separation in college, do you actually think against NFL defenders that will improve?
Believe it or not inside the 20s is the only time he puts his body on the line.

If I were an NFL corner Jarrett would be the guy i would want to cover. He wont be successful.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:38 PM
Again MHOP, nothing you have posted lately has insite to it. All you say is, what do you think, hes not good, this guys better. Please elaborate every so often so that your arguements arent as shallow and 1 dimensional anymore.

Please return to your Mike Tomlin days.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 04:47 PM
wow okay i guess this is in reference to me saying the exact same thing to you a little earlier..

i didnt think i had to explain why ginn wouldnt be a good fit as it has already been discussed a few times

but ill break it down for you:

we do not need a little guy who is fast, we just got one of those in santonio holmes last year, and we have one of those in the works with willie reid, especially one who runs bad routes (i cannot believe you criticize bowe when ginn may be one of the worst route runners in this draft, he relies on his speed too much and doesnt do the things that will get him separation at the next level such as head fakes, change of speed, strength, etc.)

i really think someone who is physical and bigger will be better for us, another possesion reciever who can compliment holmes in a year or two, also can give ben a target in the redzone

i think ginn will be a decent player, but he has the worst hands out of the top 5 or 6 recievers, and doesnt block well at all...

in all, we have small, fast players already, we dont need another right now

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:58 PM
Hes a good fit plain and simple, i know what you are reffering to and its shanagins

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:18 PM
In DBows video i see a big reciever who is good. Though he is nowhere near as physical as everyone makes him out to be he does play with gritt. I like that.

However I also see a guy who cant outrun players,
Cannot change direction, (If he is going left/right he can only shift/deke/juke/MOVE more to the left/right.
This weakness is shown in his route running, He takes forever to come out of a cut, In the NFL he wont get any separation. That part of his game (Change of direction, shifting) is among the worst Iíve seen for an NFL hopeful.
Has a rep for drops

isnt physical? did you seem him truck that safety in the video? did you see him level the linebacker? on the run?

yeah he isnt the quickest guy in the world, neither is ward... and you see how that effected him

thats why he is a possesion reciever, big strong guy who can do it all, block, make the tough catches, he doesn't have the best hands true but he improved drastically junior -> senior year

what he lacks in his quickness he makes up for in being physical and smart (using head fakes, etc) when it comes to route running

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:23 PM
Again MHOP, nothing you have posted lately has insite to it. All you say is, what do you think, hes not good, this guys better. Please elaborate every so often so that your arguements arent as shallow and 1 dimensional anymore.

Please return to your Mike Tomlin days.

sorry for asking people what they think? maybe you should do that and listen to people sometimes instead of shooting off at the mouth all the time like you know everything because you watch some youtube clips

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:24 PM
I cant believe I actually have to critique Jarrett. Im hungry so ill keep it short and summerize. First off you picked one play, watch game tape. Im basing my critique off all games. (By the way that play wasnt all that impressive)

I see a wr who is big bodied which i love. I love his size and thats it. I would really like to like this guy as i am i sucker for the big bodied wr, i love how they can shield out corners from the ball. Which is a skill Jarrett does do well. However thats it.

He is slower than i can belive, At least he takes out the need for slow motion.
He couldnt get separation in college, do you actually think against NFL defenders that will improve?
Believe it or not inside the 20s is the only time he puts his body on the line.

If I were an NFL corner Jarrett would be the guy i would want to cover. He wont be successful.


you anwsered how he gets separation... using his body

im not saying he will be a star but he'd be a better fit for us than ginn

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:25 PM
Hes a good fit plain and simple, i know what you are reffering to and its shanagins

i decided to not copy and paste it, i wrote myself why hes not a good fit

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 05:43 PM
wow okay i guess this is in reference to me saying the exact same thing to you a little earlier..

i didnt think i had to explain why ginn wouldnt be a good fit as it has already been discussed a few times

but ill break it down for you:

we do not need a little guy who is fast, we just got one of those in santonio holmes last year, and we have one of those in the works with willie reid, especially one who runs bad routes (i cannot believe you criticize bowe when ginn may be one of the worst route runners in this draft, he relies on his speed too much and doesnt do the things that will get him separation at the next level such as head fakes, change of speed, strength, etc.)

i really think someone who is physical and bigger will be better for us, another possesion reciever who can compliment holmes in a year or two, also can give ben a target in the redzone

i think ginn will be a decent player, but he has the worst hands out of the top 5 or 6 recievers, and doesnt block well at all...

in all, we have small, fast players already, we dont need another right now

I cant believe you actually just put that Ginn wont get separation. Thats the dumbest thing I think ive ever heard in my life.

Head fakes must be what the scouts are looking for eh. Unbelieveable.

W. Reid was drafted on his return game. He wont be a factor in the wr rotation.

I never said he wasn't physical. I said he isnt as physical as everyone here makes him out to be.

Worst hands out of top 5-6 WR's. He has better hands than your boy Bowe.

Finally Bowe will have horrible YAC in the NFL, he wont do anything in the open field due to the above statements. (Change of direction, speed)

Also Holmes and Ginn are totally different players. They were teamates at OU and they had one heck of an offense. Holmes is quick, slippery and loves crossing the middle because he likes moving laterally. Ginn has world class speed and a Bush like ability to score4 where ever he touches the ball.

Yes the contrast of WR would be greater with Bowe instead Ginn. But better, Hell No.

Ward, Bowe and Holmes would have a hard time strecthing the field and getting the oppertunity to run routes that favor their abilities. All three guys love the middle and Holmes, since he can no longer cross or loop the middle would be limited.

Ward, Ginn and Holmes would strike fear into every d-coordinators hearts. Those three compliment each other so well it isnt even funny. Go by what i said up there and substitute in Ginn. We would be a top offense.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:52 PM
homes doesnt stretch the feild???

i dont even feel like getting the clips to show you, but he can really stretch the field

im lookin into the future.. 2 or 3 years, and holmes and ginn as our WR's, thats two #2's on the team and no goto guy, thats my main problem

all said and done... i dont want a wr in the first

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 05:52 PM
sorry for asking people what they think? maybe you should do that and listen to people sometimes instead of shooting off at the mouth all the time like you know everything because you watch some youtube clips

Hmm, lets see, I post one youtube clip after saying you should focus more so on the actual games and whats not in the highlight reels. You go ahead and post 2 youtube clips and focus your main arguement on a couple highlight plays.

Running my mouth. Im posting fact, opinion, strategy and philosophy. Your posting,
"you anwsered how he gets separation... using his body

im not saying he will be a star but he'd be a better fit for us than ginn"

Great job,
I mean dude if your gona keep posting in this debate maybe you should post something of substence.

TheGunShow
03-11-2007, 06:19 PM
im not saying he isnt a good player.. he is an okay reciever and a great return man, but he just isnt a good fit for the steelers

i can show highlight videos too... of players that are better fits for us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UURS6legbxo&mode=related&search=

and say what you want about jarrett, but damn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUU_A9ZTmyk

also, 36 td's in 35 games at that point

That first one of Bowe was horrible. From timeline 1:30 to 1:55 they keep showing a 7-8 yard catch that wasn't even a spectacular catch.

Second one was a nice throw and catch but one throw and catch.

I don't see why you think Ginn doesn't fit our system. In that right you say Santonio Holmes and Nate Washington don't fit our system. All are quick speedy receivers that are dangerous with the ball in their hands.

Positives and Negatives on both.

Bowe-
(+)Size, 6-2 1/4 and 221lbs, route runnng, blocking
(-)Speed 4.55, hands, change of direction

Ginn-
(+)Speed, return ability, agility, acceleration
(-)Route running, hands, size

I guess it comes down to your cup of tea. But Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Marc Bulger have done pretty well with undersized speedy receivers.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:21 PM
Hmm, lets see, I post one youtube clip after saying you should focus more so on the actual games and whats not in the highlight reels. You go ahead and post 2 youtube clips and focus your main arguement on a couple highlight plays.

Running my mouth. Im posting fact, opinion, strategy and philosophy. Your posting,
"you anwsered how he gets separation... using his body

im not saying he will be a star but he'd be a better fit for us than ginn"

Great job,
I mean dude if your gona keep posting in this debate maybe you should post something of substence.


my videos were more of mocking yours then anything

theres a difference between 'focusing my arguments' and citing examples, which is what i did...

you are posting philosophy??? strategy??? right.

and how is me saying:
"you anwsered how he gets separation... using his body

im not saying he will be a star but he'd be a better fit for us than ginn"

any different then a lot of stuff that gets posted by people, including you?

in that statement i did what you said you do...

"Im posting fact, opinion, strategy and philosophy"

FACT: jarrett gains separation by using his body
OPINION: jarrett will be a better fot for us than ginn

do you see how you contradict yourself?

also, just because you like to start all your words with capital letters and end them in periods doesn't make what you say any more sophisticated...

and i loveeeeeeee how you are using this whole "say something insightful, say something with substance", after i said the same about you...

also,
"Hmm, lets see, I post one youtube clip after saying you should focus more so on the actual games and whats not in the highlight reels"

i dont see this statement? and the video you showed was all highlights, so i am not sure what you mean by this

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:22 PM
That first one of Bowe was horrible. From timeline 1:30 to 1:55 they keep showing a 7-8 yard catch that wasn't even a spectacular catch.

Second one was a nice throw and catch but one throw and catch.

I don't see why you think Ginn doesn't fit our system. In that right you say Santonio Holmes and Nate Washington don't fit our system. All are quick speedy receivers that are dangerous with the ball in their hands.

Positives and Negatives on both.

Bowe-
(+)Size, 6-2 1/4 and 221lbs, route runnng, blocking
(-)Speed 4.55, hands, change of direction

Ginn-
(+)Speed, return ability, agility, acceleration
(-)Route running, hands, size

I guess it comes down to your cup of tea. But Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Marc Bulger have done pretty well with undersized speedy receivers.


i wasnt saying he doesnt fit our system, more than we already players that are like him so i dont see the need for him

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:24 PM
homes doesnt stretch the feild???

i dont even feel like getting the clips to show you, but he can really stretch the field

im lookin into the future.. 2 or 3 years, and holmes and ginn as our WR's, thats two #2's on the team and no goto guy, thats my main problem

all said and done... i dont want a wr in the first

First off i through this whole thing i have repeatingly said Ginn as a second rounder. Never once as a first. Also this is about who is a better fit.

If you can read i emphasized that holes is more quick than fast. He'll pick up huge yards off of hooks, turn and goes, short crosses, etc.
Ginn is the WR that is a threat on posts and flys, also if he gets the ball in space watch out.

Overall these two are similar but different as they each do things better than each other and have different route running preferences. Anyone will tell you that.

Again Holmes and Ginn and Gonzalas were an unbelieveable trio threat. Sounds very similar to Holmes, Ginn and Ward.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:31 PM
First off i through this whole thing i have repeatingly said Ginn as a second rounder. Never once as a first. Also this is about who is a better fit.

If you can read i emphasized that holes is more quick than fast. He'll pick up huge yards off of hooks, turn and goes, short crosses, etc.
Ginn is the WR that is a threat on posts and flys, also if he gets the ball in space watch out.

Overall these two are similar but different as they each do things better than each other and have different route running preferences. Anyone will tell you that.

Again Holmes and Ginn and Gonzalas were an unbelieveable trio threat. Sounds very similar to Holmes, Ginn and Ward.

holmes ginn and gonzalez wernt an "unbelieveable trio threat"

golzalez had 8 catches and 28 catches for 179 and 373 yards when holmes and ginn were there

holmes and ginn were pretty nasty together but golzalez didnt really factor in until this year when he got a chance to start

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 06:32 PM
Anyone want a Dwayne Bowe with Ginn Speed and likely a day 2 pick?


Roy Hall, WR, OSU.

was timed at 4.35 and 4.38, at 6'3 230lbs. I know the OSU Track is notorious for faster speeds. (AJ Hawk ran a 4.3 or 4.4 I can't remember).

Could be a late day 2/UDFA Steal. He has the size, physicallity and power of Bowe, but the speed of Ginn.

Roy Hall
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/osu/sports/m-footbl/02-03roster/p-hall.jpg
Player Profile
Class: RS Senior
Hometown: Lyndhurst, Ohio
High School: Lyndhurst Brush
Height / Weight: 6-3 / 240
Position: Split End
Birthdate: 12/08/1983
Major: Marketing

Buckeye Bits: Has been a key reserve the past two years ... dependable football player who is expected to take on an expanded role in 2006 with the departure of Santonio Holmes ... will be the third receiver ... has good hands, runs good routes and knows how to use his body to shield off defenders ... is the Buckeyes' most physical receiver ... also a fine blocker ... has played in all 37 games the past three years and has started seven times ... has 39 career receptions for 433 yards and one touchdown and has averaged 11.1 yards per catch ... creates a difficult physical match-up for smaller cornerbacks and is difficult for one defender to bring down because of his size and strength ... coming off a solid spring and should have an outstanding senior year ... a three-year scholar-athlete and a very intelligent football player.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:35 PM
my videos were more of mocking yours then anything

theres a difference between 'focusing my arguments' and citing examples, which is what i did...

you are posting philosophy??? strategy??? right.

and how is me saying:
"you anwsered how he gets separation... using his body

im not saying he will be a star but he'd be a better fit for us than ginn"

any different then a lot of stuff that gets posted by people, including you?

in that statement i did what you said you do...

"Im posting fact, opinion, strategy and philosophy"

FACT: jarrett gains separation by using his body
OPINION: jarrett will be a better fot for us than ginn

do you see how you contradict yourself?

also, just because you like to start all your words with capital letters and end them in periods doesn't make what you say any more sophisticated...

and i loveeeeeeee how you are using this whole "say something insightful, say something with substance", after i said the same about you...

also,
"Hmm, lets see, I post one youtube clip after saying you should focus more so on the actual games and whats not in the highlight reels"

i dont see this statement? and the video you showed was all highlights, so i am not sure what you mean by this

Dude the more you post the more of an idiot you sound like. How again did i contradict myself. As a "Fact" you put Jarrett gains separation by using his body. I like that part of his game but its not what i would call separation in Jarretts case. When you always have a corner touching or breathing on you at the NCAA level it never projects well. By using his body he "shields" say it with me now he "shields" the ball from the defender and therefore always comes down in an unfavorable position. Back peddling, stumbling with your back towards a defender, in the NFL watch out.
Why dont you stop crying and ranting, pickup your lunch pale and go home.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:36 PM
First off i through this whole thing i have repeatingly said Ginn as a second rounder. Never once as a first. Also this is about who is a better fit.

If you can read i emphasized that holes is more quick than fast. He'll pick up huge yards off of hooks, turn and goes, short crosses, etc.
Ginn is the WR that is a threat on posts and flys, also if he gets the ball in space watch out.

Overall these two are similar but different as they each do things better than each other and have different route running preferences. Anyone will tell you that.

Again Holmes and Ginn and Gonzalas were an unbelieveable trio threat. Sounds very similar to Holmes, Ginn and Ward.

and for what its worth holmes and ginn are about the same to me speed wise.. and at OSU holmes was the deep threat, running a lot of posts, flys, etc. and ginn was the one making a lot of plays after the catch, gettin that YAC.. from what i remember of them playing together

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 06:37 PM
and for what its worth holmes and ginn are about the same to me speed wise.. and at OSU holmes was the deep threat, running a lot of posts, flys, etc. and ginn was the one making a lot of plays after the catch, gettin that YAC.. from what i remember of them playing together

Ted Ginn reminds me of Troy Williamson.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:38 PM
holmes ginn and gonzalez wernt an "unbelieveable trio threat"

golzalez had 8 catches and 28 catches for 179 and 373 yards when holmes and ginn were there

holmes and ginn were pretty nasty together but golzalez didnt really factor in until this year when he got a chance to start

THANK YOU, Holmes and Ginn were nasty together, dominating. Now replace Gonzalas, a poor mans Hines Ward with the real thing. Yea, add our best reciver in with that combo you just called nasty.

Case closed, game over.
I have no more use for this guy.

TheGunShow
03-11-2007, 06:39 PM
i wasnt saying he doesnt fit our system, more than we already players that are like him so i dont see the need for him

I agree receiver isn't our biggest need. I just put it in my mock because I made the argument that Ginn might be the BPA and I'd be all for taking him at #15 if the draft went where, Brown, Willis, Carriker, Landry, ect... are off the board. I think we could get Ginn and still fill every hole. We'll still get some compensatory picks and I think I already did a nice job of filling all our needs.

Ted Ginn, Jr.- gives us a return man and a future replacement for Ward.
Tony Ugoh- Gives us a RT and a future replacement for Marvel Smith.
Brian Robison- Replacement for Porter or DE/pass rusher for the Tampa 2.
Anthony Waters- Replacement for Farrior
John Talley- Replacement for Townsend and a very good tampa 2 fit.
Kolby Smith- Replacement for Haynes and will push Davenport.
Kurt Quarterman- Some more interior lineman to push the team.

Lets say we get a 4th, 5th, and 6th for compensation.

4th- Jay Alford DL Penn State
Depth for the line and can play 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT. A nice 4-3 tampa 2 DT also.
5th- Brian Smith OLB Missouri
Perfect 3-4 OLB. Former DE that actually plays in coverage.
6th- Adam Podlesh P Maryland
Never had a punt blocked and has a booming leg. Also runs a sub 4.5 forty at 200+ pounds.

Point being we don't have any glaring needs and we can afford to take the BPA in the first and still fill all our needs easily.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:39 PM
and for what its worth holmes and ginn are about the same to me speed wise..

By the way, Ginn has world class speed it aint close.

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 06:40 PM
I agree receiver isn't our biggest need. I just put it in my mock because I made the argument that Ginn might be the BPA and I'd be all for taking him at #15 if the draft went where, Brown, Willis, Carriker, Landry, ect... are off the board. I think we could get Ginn and still fill every hole. We'll still get some compensatory picks and I think I already did a nice job of filling all our needs.

Ted Ginn, Jr.- gives us a return man and a future replacement for Ward.
Tony Ugoh- Gives us a RT and a future replacement for Marvel Smith.
Brian Robison- Replacement for Porter or DE/pass rusher for the Tampa 2.
Anthony Waters- Replacement for Farrior
John Talley- Replacement for Townsend and a very good tampa 2 fit.
Kolby Smith- Replacement for Haynes and will push Davenport.
Kurt Quarterman- Some more interior lineman to push the team.

Lets say we get a 4th, 5th, and 6th for compensation.

4th- Jay Alford DL Penn State
Depth for the line and can play 3-4 DE and 4-3 DT. A nice 4-3 tampa 2 DT also.
5th- Brian Smith OLB Missouri
Perfect 3-4 OLB. Former DE that actually plays in coverage.
6th- Adam Podlesh P Maryland
Never had a punt blocked and has a booming leg. Also runs a sub 4.5 forty at 200+ pounds.

Point being we don't have any glaring needs and we can afford to take the BPA in the first and still fill all our needs easily.

This is just a personal Thing. I like the #1 WR to be a possession receiver. Reliable catcher. I don't think Ginn is that type.

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 06:41 PM
By the way, Ginn has world class speed it aint close.

I guess we'll never know as he isn't running before the draft.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:43 PM
Dude the more you post the more of an idiot you sound like. How again did i contradict myself. As a "Fact" you put Jarrett gains separation by using his body. I like that part of his game but its not what i would call separation in Jarretts case. When you always have a corner touching or breathing on you at the NCAA level it never projects well. By using his body he "shields" say it with me now he "shields" the ball from the defender and therefore always comes down in an unfavorable position. Back peddling, stumbling with your back towards a defender, in the NFL watch out.
Why dont you stop crying and ranting, pickup your lunch pale and go home.

???

separation doesnt have to be the reciever being 2 feet away from the corner...

separation is also separating the defender from the ball, which you and i both agree jarrett does very well

i dont see how that makes me sound idotic, nor do i see what you are really arguing about

also ill spell it out for you

you telling me my post was garbage
you saying you post fact, opinion, etc.
me showing you how my post was exactly what you say you do
thus making our posts the same
so im saying my post was the same as what you say you post

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:44 PM
After watching the guy the past couple years a 40 time really isnt that important to me. He'll be one of the fastest players in the NFL
reffering to Mr. Stillers comment just above

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:46 PM
When you always have a corner touching or breathing on you at the NCAA level it never projects well. By using his body he "shields" say it with me now he "shields" the ball from the defender and therefore always comes down in an unfavorable position. Back peddling, stumbling with your back towards a defender, in the NFL watch out.


How do you argue that.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 06:48 PM
Anyone want a Dwayne Bowe with Ginn Speed and likely a day 2 pick?


Roy Hall, WR, OSU.

was timed at 4.35 and 4.38, at 6'3 230lbs. I know the OSU Track is notorious for faster speeds. (AJ Hawk ran a 4.3 or 4.4 I can't remember).

Could be a late day 2/UDFA Steal. He has the size, physicallity and power of Bowe, but the speed of Ginn.

Roy Hall
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/osu/sports/m-footbl/02-03roster/p-hall.jpg
Player Profile
Class: RS Senior
Hometown: Lyndhurst, Ohio
High School: Lyndhurst Brush
Height / Weight: 6-3 / 240
Position: Split End
Birthdate: 12/08/1983
Major: Marketing

Buckeye Bits: Has been a key reserve the past two years ... dependable football player who is expected to take on an expanded role in 2006 with the departure of Santonio Holmes ... will be the third receiver ... has good hands, runs good routes and knows how to use his body to shield off defenders ... is the Buckeyes' most physical receiver ... also a fine blocker ... has played in all 37 games the past three years and has started seven times ... has 39 career receptions for 433 yards and one touchdown and has averaged 11.1 yards per catch ... creates a difficult physical match-up for smaller cornerbacks and is difficult for one defender to bring down because of his size and strength ... coming off a solid spring and should have an outstanding senior year ... a three-year scholar-athlete and a very intelligent football player.

I know virtually nothing of this guy Stiller. Aside from the write up is there anything you saw that reallly impresed you about this kid.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 06:55 PM
How do you argue that.

receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2004 USC 55 849 15.4 57 13
2005 USC 91 1274 14.0 61 16
2006 USC 70 1015 14.5 62 12

what you said was your opinion, i just dont see how you can put up stats like these without being able to get any separation

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 07:03 PM
When you always have a corner touching or breathing on you at the NCAA level it never projects well. By using his body he "shields" say it with me now he "shields" the ball from the defender and therefore always comes down in an unfavorable position. Back peddling, stumbling with your back towards a defender, in the NFL watch out.


Your response,

receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2004 USC 55 849 15.4 57 13
2005 USC 91 1274 14.0 61 16
2006 USC 70 1015 14.5 62 12

what you said was your opinion, i just dont see how you can put up stats like these without being able to get any separation
.................................................. .................................................. ...

What i said there is pretty much fact rather than opinion. I also emphasized that all those things he gets away with in college he will get burnt with in the pros.

If we were looking at this from the college level I could use those stats of yours against you. in the "Long" category his longest single reception of the year is 57, 61 and 62 respectivley. If that desent say cant separate I dont know what does.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
Your response,

receiving Stats
YEAR TEAM REC YDS AVG LNG TD
2004 USC 55 849 15.4 57 13
2005 USC 91 1274 14.0 61 16
2006 USC 70 1015 14.5 62 12

what you said was your opinion, i just dont see how you can put up stats like these without being able to get any separation
.................................................. .................................................. ...

What i said there is pretty much fact rather than opinion. I also emphasized that all those things he gets away with in college he will get burnt with in the pros.

If we were looking at this from the college level I could use those stats of yours against you. in the "Long" category his longest single reception of the year is 57, 61 and 62 respectivley. If that desent say cant separate I dont know what does.

i dont know how this got into me arguing for jarrett because im not even a huge fan of his, but anyways i think now we are just arguing for the sake of arguing

and those are some decently long plays

those are some pretty long plays...

ginn:
59
73
58

soo that really isnt an indicator

skarocksoi
03-11-2007, 07:23 PM
This is strictly my personal opinion, but I think that Ginn is going to be one of the biggests busts in this draft. Everyone obsesses over his straightline speed and that is what has contributed to his success in college, but the average speed in the NFL is much faster than that in college. His hands are average at best and he's not nearly physical enough to block in the run game. Most of his routes at OSU were deep fly routes or quick outs where he made the first guy miss, then went 10 yards before getting tackled or going out of bounds by the safety. Thats not really going to cut it in the NFL.

If you remember the Notre Dame OSU game from last year you know what I mean. In fact, Holmes was used more with post and slant routes and got much better seperation from CB's than Holmes did. Seperation is less about speed and more about quickness and agility.

A run-first team like ours needs more of a physical presence with solid hands than a guy who can run real far real fast. But if you want that, how about Yamon Figures from Kansas State. He had a 4.3 40 and is about the same height and weight as Ginn. Plus, he would be available later on in the draft, so if he busts, we don't have a fast punt returner getting paid 40 mil over 7 years.

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 07:25 PM
After watching the guy the past couple years a 40 time really isnt that important to me. He'll be one of the fastest players in the NFL
reffering to Mr. Stillers comment just above

He has potential to be one of the fastest guys.

Until there's written proof, DeAngelo Hall and Jerome mathis are the fastest.

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 07:28 PM
This is strictly my personal opinion, but I think that Ginn is going to be one of the biggests busts in this draft. Everyone obsesses over his straightline speed and that is what has contributed to his success in college, but the average speed in the NFL is much faster than that in college. His hands are average at best and he's not nearly physical enough to block in the run game. Most of his routes at OSU were deep fly routes or quick outs where he made the first guy miss, then went 10 yards before getting tackled or going out of bounds by the safety. Thats not really going to cut it in the NFL.

If you remember the Notre Dame OSU game from last year you know what I mean. In fact, Holmes was used more with post and slant routes and got much better seperation from CB's than Holmes did. Seperation is less about speed and more about quickness and agility.

A run-first team like ours needs more of a physical presence with solid hands than a guy who can run real far real fast. But if you want that, how about Yamon Figures from Kansas State. He had a 4.3 40 and is about the same height and weight as Ginn. Plus, he would be available later on in the draft, so if he busts, we don't have a fast punt returner getting paid 40 mil over 7 years.

I haven't watched a ton of OSU material but after reading about him. I watched 2 games. I watched him light up Leon Hall twice though. He had 3 catches for 38 yards and 1 TD. In the michigan game. He looks like a developmental prospect (season or 2 on the PS), however, he has solid speed and looked damn near untackleable. Needs to work on his route running, but caught every pass around him. The only one he didn't... Troy smith wailed it like 15 feet over his head. He looks like Mr. Reliable #3. Which, I love.

He also returned 3 kickoffs for 56 yards.. thats almost 20 a piece. With his physique and speed. Could make a damned good gunner.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 07:30 PM
Guys, Ginn is being valued by scouting experts everywhere as a first round game changing player. Yes he has incredable speed (hands down fastest in NCAA), why are you downplaying his other assets because of it. He is a playmaker, plain and simple. Hes electrifying and makes everyone naround him better.

Hes this years Reggie Bush with a different position in the sense that they each got knocked for the same things.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 07:38 PM
I haven't watched a ton of OSU material but after reading about him. I watched 2 games. I watched him light up Leon Hall twice though. He had 3 catches for 38 yards and 1 TD. In the michigan game. He looks like a developmental prospect (season or 2 on the PS), however, he has solid speed and looked damn near untackleable. Needs to work on his route running, but caught every pass around him. The only one he didn't... Troy smith wailed it like 15 feet over his head. He looks like Mr. Reliable #3. Which, I love.

He also returned 3 kickoffs for 56 yards.. thats almost 20 a piece. With his physique and speed. Could make a damned good gunner.

Hes a top two wr no doubt. I really think that people want to knock Ginn because they need something to level off his speed. I followed this guy for a while and he really never drops the ball. In fact i've never ever seen him drop a ball within 15 yards. His drops arent even drops, there 50 yard bombs where he has to wait for the ball and a corner gets a hand in.

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 07:43 PM
Guys, Ginn is being valued by scouting experts everywhere as a first round game changing player. Yes he has incredable speed (hands down fastest in NCAA), why are you downplaying his other assets because of it. He is a playmaker, plain and simple. Hes electrifying and makes everyone naround him better.

Hes this years Reggie Bush with a different position in the sense that they each got knocked for the same things.

Reggie Bush didn't get knocked for his route running and receiving skills, those he had solidified. He got knocked for size and his wanting to wiggle instead of take it up the gut.

Ginn is being knocked because of his position specific issues of Catching and route running.

He has incredible speed yes, but if that were the case, ever olympic track runner would be a football player. It takes other skills and thats whats being questioned.

His will to play WR (Said he wants to play corner), his route running, and his hands. Everyone downplays bowe for his dropsies, Ginn is right up there. If Bowe had a sub 4.45 40' He'd be ranked ahead of Ginn because he is a more complete player.

He can be a game changing player. There's many game changing players that never live up to the bill. Troy Williamson was drafted #7 overall because he was fast and was a deep threat and had elite NCAA Speed. Now Minnesota is looking for another WR.

I'm just not sold on Ginn.

He was injured Celebrating a touchdown.

Being an Elite Punt returner he only has 1 TD return this season. 1 Last season as well, he had 4 as a season but got progressively worse returning kicks.


2004: 15 Returns, 384 yds, 4 tds
2005: 25 Returns, 250 yds, 1 Td
2006: 24 Returns, 266 yds, 1 td.


His receiving stats went up. I'm just not sold on his ability to be a solid every down #1/#2, now in the 2nd/3rd round... I'd pick him up for a gamebreaking #3. But I just don't think he's a 1 or 2 wr. He's a Deep threat.. strictly.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 07:52 PM
I compared him being knocked like Reggie was due to the fact they were both knocked for being too "pretty". Not the specifics the overall style of play.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 07:55 PM
Someone previously posted that Ginn would go 10 yards after the catch without being touched. Referring to it as a bad thing. Frankly i could care less if a WR gets hit a bunch of times to get ten or goes untouched. If anything going untouched is much better.

TheGunShow
03-12-2007, 01:27 PM
This is just a personal Thing. I like the #1 WR to be a possession receiver. Reliable catcher. I don't think Ginn is that type.

That's fine. To each their own. I personally want my #1 to be a home run guy. Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Deion Branch, ect...

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 01:52 PM
That's fine. To each their own. I personally want my #1 to be a home run guy. Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Deion Branch, ect...

harrison is unfair in comparison to this, the guy is just nasty... hes the mox between poessesion and 'home run guy' that every coach wishes they had...

great hands, speed, route running, body control, etc.

i know what you mean though and it really is a preference thing

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 02:39 PM
That's fine. To each their own. I personally want my #1 to be a home run guy. Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Deion Branch, ect...

Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt are also great possession WR's.

I'll clarify more. I'd rather have a guy thats reliable at #1, than a guy like Ginn that is a home run threat but has issues with catching the ball.

TheGunShow
03-12-2007, 02:47 PM
Yeah, but Harrison and Holt came into the NFL as home run guys. As a number one you have to be able to catch the deep ball and the short out route or middle slant. Can you teach Ginn to run those routes. Maybe, but can you teach Bowe to run a 4.28 forty? No.

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 03:00 PM
Yeah, but Harrison and Holt came into the NFL as home run guys. As a number one you have to be able to catch the deep ball and the short out route or middle slant. Can you teach Ginn to run those routes. Maybe, but can you teach Bowe to run a 4.28 forty? No.

Your right. Harrison and Holt both came in as huge home run hitters and they learned to perfect routes and become reliable anywhere on the field. Ginn is coming with that home run hitting ability, we can teach him to fine tune his game.

Ginn has the speed and the tools to work with. You cant teach speed.

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 03:40 PM
Yeah, but Harrison and Holt came into the NFL as home run guys. As a number one you have to be able to catch the deep ball and the short out route or middle slant. Can you teach Ginn to run those routes. Maybe, but can you teach Bowe to run a 4.28 forty? No.

So the only way to be a solid #1 WR is to be fast?

Should I call Hines?


I may Be wrong .... but isn't Isaac Bruce the #1? I'm fairly certain he has been with Holt as the #2.

Torry Holt ran a 4.44 40' in 1999 Combine


Jerry Porter ran a 4.48 40' in 2000.
Peter Warrick ran a 4.58 40'.
Lavernaues Coles ran a 4.47

Santana Moss ran a 4.31
Reggie Wayne ran a 4.45
Steve Smith ran a 4.41
Chad Johnson ran a 4.57
Ken-Yon Rambo ran a 4.34
TJ Houshmanzadeh ran a 4.61


2002:

Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Javon Walker: 4.38
Ashley Lelie: 4.49
Deion Branch: 4.47
Jabar Gaffney: 4.56
Reche Caldwell: 4.53
Andre Davis: 4.42
Josh Reed: 4.54
Antwaan Randel-El: 4.49
Tim Carter: 4.32


2003:

Andre Johnson: 4.40
Charles Rogers: 4.40
Bryant Johnson: 4.57
Anquan Boldin: 4.72
Taylor Jacobs: 4.42
Bethel Johnson: 4.38
Nate Burleson: 4.51
Brandon Lloyd: 4.62
Arnaz Battle: 4.58


2004:

Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Michael Clayton: 4.67
Michael Jenkins: 4.60
Devery Henderson: 4.41
Keary Colbert: 4.60
Bernard Berrian: 4.58
Sammie Parker: 4.39
Jerricho Cotchery: 4.54
Ernest Wilford: 4.79

2005:

Braylon Edwards: 4.45
Mike Williams: 4.56
Troy Wililamson: 4.32
Reggie Brown: 4.45
Roddy White: 4.47
Roscoe Parrish: 4.37
Jerome Mathis: 4.28
Chris Henry: 4.50


2006:

Chad Jackson: 4.32
Santonio Holmes: 4.38
Sinorice Moss: 4.38
Demetrius Williams: 4.52
Greg Jennings: 4.42
Maurice Stovall: 4.57


Number 1 WR's:

Lavernaues Coles: 4.47
Santana Moss: 4.31
Steve Smith: 4.41
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Reche Caldwell: 4.53
Andre Johnson: 4.40
Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Braylon Edwards: 4.45
Troy Wililamson: 4.32

The only sub 4.40 guy thats really worth mentioning is Moss, Evans can get there. Williamson is a bust. But the odd thing is, is the Amount of Slow #1's.

This to me further proves the point that straightline speed in a WR is overrated. I Think Change of Direction and Explosion/Burst are much more important.

You can't teach Dwayne Bowe to 4.28, but that doesn't necesarily mean you can teach Ginn to be a great #1 WR.

I think he'd make a good Slot, and I know Holmes is a #2 (He's the Reggie Wayne, Hines is the Marvin Harrison...)

Interesting note:

Cincy Trio's Average 40' Time: 4.56, only because of Chris Henry, the #3.
Arizona's Trio Average 40' : 4.64

Now, I can only find #'s back to 1999, but It doesn't require 4.3 speed to be a deep threat..

Deep Threats:

Torry Holt:4.44
Santana Moss: 4.31
Reggie Wayne: 4.45
Steve Smith: 4.41
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Javon Walker: 4.38
Ashley Lelie: 4.49
Deion Branch: 4.47
Andre Johnson: 4.40
Charles Rogers: 4.40
Bryant Johnson: 4.57
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Bernard Berrian: 4.58
Reggie Brown: 4.45


Contrary to popular belief, you can teach speed. Thats why there is speed Training. Look up "Joe DeFranco" in Google.

I still want to see Ginn post a 40'. Who knows he might be a 4.36-4.40 WR.

skarocksoi
03-12-2007, 03:46 PM
I think he's in a similar vein to Bernard Berrian of the Bears. He's basically a "go deep" receiver who uses his speed to get past defenders and make the catch. Thats about it. Guys talking about Holt and Harrison are going way too far. They are great all around recievers. They have the speed, route running, and hands to make the big plays and be a star. Ginn has 1 of those things locked down.

Everybody is saying in 2 or 3 years he'll be great. If we have to wait 2-3 years for our #15 pick in the first round to do something, then we wasted a pick. Holmes was able to come in and contribute and make a difference right away. Our pick should do that as well. If all we get is a punt returner or a gunner then we wasted a pick and a hell of a lot of money. I'd much rather have a guy who will make an instant impact, preferrably on defense, for our first rounder. Not a guy who needs to develop into and impact player.

If you are really looking for a fast reciever, why not Yamon Figures? I think he'd give you the same things as Ginn, but would be available in a later round and wouldn't have as much of a risk.

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 03:51 PM
If you are really looking for a fast reciever, why not Yamon Figures? I think he'd give you the same things as Ginn, but would be available in a later round and wouldn't have as much of a risk.

Were not debating Ginn in round 1, hes round 2 if hes there. The debate is who is a better fit, Ginn or Bowe.

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 03:53 PM
Were not debating Ginn in round 1, hes round 2 if hes there. The debate is who is a better fit, Ginn or Bowe.

Round 2 is a consideration because of Devin Hester... But Ginn isnt' the Punt Returner Hester is.

He's definitely twice the receiver as Hester, but he's not near the returner.

Frankly. If it came to round 2... I'd probably still prefer Meachem or Rice Over Ginn. we have a better all around WR in Holmes. He has Ginn-like Speed (Which we're not sure what it is), he already has reliable hands, knows the routes. He's not the Punt returner Ginn is, but he's basically the same WR, just Better. I'd rather get a possession receiver.


Again it's personal.

I wouldn't mind a Hines at 1 and Rice at 3
with a Holmes at 2 and Figures at 4.

To go one further, instead of fighting Bowe Vs. Ginn...

Why not just draft Olsen? 6'5, 250+lbs. 4.45 and catches everything.

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 03:55 PM
Contrary to popular belief, you can teach speed. Thats why there is speed Training. Look up "Joe DeFranco" in Google.


You Cant teach speed, especially not speed like Ginn has. Also, Joe Defranco makes players slightly faster, not make them into speedsters. He teaches and trains on quick burst release, etc. Basically they improve their times of the start.

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 04:01 PM
Round 2 is a consideration because of Devin Hester... But Ginn isnt' the Punt Returner Hester is.

He's definitely twice the receiver as Hester, but he's not near the returner.

Frankly. If it came to round 2... I'd probably still prefer Meachem or Rice Over Ginn. we have a better all around WR in Holmes. He has Ginn-like Speed (Which we're not sure what it is), he already has reliable hands, knows the routes. He's not the Punt returner Ginn is, but he's basically the same WR, just Better. I'd rather get a possession receiver.


Again it's personal.

I wouldn't mind a Hines at 1 and Rice at 3
with a Holmes at 2 and Figures at 4.

To go one further, instead of fighting Bowe Vs. Ginn...

Why not just draft Olsen? 6'5, 250+lbs. 4.45 and catches everything.

First off Ginn is 10x a better wr than Hester because Hester isnt a wr, hes a cb.

Second, Comparing Hester and Ginn coming out of college Ginn was more coveted as a return man than Hester.

Taking Meachem or Rice over Ginn is crazy.

Who do I like better between Meachem and Rice? Rice, Im actually a pretty big fan.

Im not even touchin the question as to why not Olsen. THats pretty much on guy and position i can say for certain we wont be drafting round 1. TE and QB.

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 04:27 PM
First off Ginn is 10x a better wr than Hester because Hester isnt a wr, hes a cb.

Second, Comparing Hester and Ginn coming out of college Ginn was more coveted as a return man than Hester.

Taking Meachem or Rice over Ginn is crazy.

Who do I like better between Meachem and Rice? Rice, Im actually a pretty big fan.

Im not even touchin the question as to why not Olsen. THats pretty much on guy and position i can say for certain we wont be drafting round 1. TE and QB.

Hester doesn't technically have a true position. As it stands, Chicago is trying to fit him into WR this spring. As for my point. I was stating that Hester is more coveted as a return man than Ginn.


Drafting a WR that can return some punts in rd 1.
drafting a ST returner that could fit another position in rd 2? Only the bears would use a pick on a ST only player and it paid off. No offense, But Hester is a better return man than Ginn, I would've said this last year.

As for Rice vs. Meachem, I agree I'd take Rice. He's basically the slower, leaner Calvin Johnson.

As for Greg Olsen. I wasn't talking about TE, the dude is 6'5, 250lbs, and ran faster than Sidney Rice. He has better hands, by a little as well.

Why not instead of drafting Ginn/Rice/Meachem, draft Olsen as he's basically a huge WR. He has WR speed and great hands. Hard to tackle. He could be a split out or #2 Te. Effectively.


I'm a guy thats big on versatility as you guessed.

TheGunShow
03-12-2007, 04:30 PM
So the only way to be a solid #1 WR is to be fast?

Should I call Hines?


I may Be wrong .... but isn't Isaac Bruce the #1? I'm fairly certain he has been with Holt as the #2.

Torry Holt ran a 4.44 40' in 1999 Combine


Jerry Porter ran a 4.48 40' in 2000.
Peter Warrick ran a 4.58 40'.
Lavernaues Coles ran a 4.47

Santana Moss ran a 4.31
Reggie Wayne ran a 4.45
Steve Smith ran a 4.41
Chad Johnson ran a 4.57
Ken-Yon Rambo ran a 4.34
TJ Houshmanzadeh ran a 4.61


2002:

Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Javon Walker: 4.38
Ashley Lelie: 4.49
Deion Branch: 4.47
Jabar Gaffney: 4.56
Reche Caldwell: 4.53
Andre Davis: 4.42
Josh Reed: 4.54
Antwaan Randel-El: 4.49
Tim Carter: 4.32


2003:

Andre Johnson: 4.40
Charles Rogers: 4.40
Bryant Johnson: 4.57
Anquan Boldin: 4.72
Taylor Jacobs: 4.42
Bethel Johnson: 4.38
Nate Burleson: 4.51
Brandon Lloyd: 4.62
Arnaz Battle: 4.58


2004:

Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Michael Clayton: 4.67
Michael Jenkins: 4.60
Devery Henderson: 4.41
Keary Colbert: 4.60
Bernard Berrian: 4.58
Sammie Parker: 4.39
Jerricho Cotchery: 4.54
Ernest Wilford: 4.79

2005:

Braylon Edwards: 4.45
Mike Williams: 4.56
Troy Wililamson: 4.32
Reggie Brown: 4.45
Roddy White: 4.47
Roscoe Parrish: 4.37
Jerome Mathis: 4.28
Chris Henry: 4.50


2006:

Chad Jackson: 4.32
Santonio Holmes: 4.38
Sinorice Moss: 4.38
Demetrius Williams: 4.52
Greg Jennings: 4.42
Maurice Stovall: 4.57


Number 1 WR's:

Lavernaues Coles: 4.47
Santana Moss: 4.31
Steve Smith: 4.41
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Reche Caldwell: 4.53
Andre Johnson: 4.40
Larry Fitzgerald: 4.63
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Braylon Edwards: 4.45
Troy Wililamson: 4.32

The only sub 4.40 guy thats really worth mentioning is Moss, Evans can get there. Williamson is a bust. But the odd thing is, is the Amount of Slow #1's.

This to me further proves the point that straightline speed in a WR is overrated. I Think Change of Direction and Explosion/Burst are much more important.

You can't teach Dwayne Bowe to 4.28, but that doesn't necesarily mean you can teach Ginn to be a great #1 WR.

I think he'd make a good Slot, and I know Holmes is a #2 (He's the Reggie Wayne, Hines is the Marvin Harrison...)

Interesting note:

Cincy Trio's Average 40' Time: 4.56, only because of Chris Henry, the #3.
Arizona's Trio Average 40' : 4.64

Now, I can only find #'s back to 1999, but It doesn't require 4.3 speed to be a deep threat..

Deep Threats:

Torry Holt:4.44
Santana Moss: 4.31
Reggie Wayne: 4.45
Steve Smith: 4.41
Chad Johnson: 4.57
Dante Stallworth: 4.48
Javon Walker: 4.38
Ashley Lelie: 4.49
Deion Branch: 4.47
Andre Johnson: 4.40
Charles Rogers: 4.40
Bryant Johnson: 4.57
Roy Williams: 4.48
Reggie Williams: 4.62
Lee Evans: 4.39
Bernard Berrian: 4.58
Reggie Brown: 4.45


Contrary to popular belief, you can teach speed. Thats why there is speed Training. Look up "Joe DeFranco" in Google.

I still want to see Ginn post a 40'. Who knows he might be a 4.36-4.40 WR.

So speed is bad?

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 04:34 PM
So speed is bad?

Haha, . ...

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 04:35 PM
Interesting plan for Olsen there, actually not to bad i kind of like it. If Ginn is gone and hes there in the second i wouldnt mind taking him and making him a wr.

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 04:36 PM
thats exactly what it is?

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 04:40 PM
thats exactly what it is?

What kind of _ are you. Hes a TE

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 04:44 PM
So speed is bad?

Not necesarily, lookign at that post you could get that assumption.

I think of it this way.

Straightline speed is overrated. Again I'd rather see their Route Running, Hands, Change of direction speed and Explosion.

A solid route runner can always get open, having a guy with great hands can let your QB not have to be pinpoint accurate all the time, how good is he at meandering? Can he change direction fast, without the loss of speed?

Is he a top end speed, or quick accelerator? A quick accelerator will be able to make the quick moves that will let him be open.

Speed isn't necessarily bad, but it's overrated. Atleast "Ginn" speed. Steve Smith, Chad Johnson... Didn't run under a 4.40. They're two of the top WR's.

Chad Johnson is usually the top receiver and he ran a 4.57. Like I said earlier, I just have a preference at the reliable hands guy at #1. (Hines.)

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 04:46 PM
Interesting plan for Olsen there, actually not to bad i kind of like it. If Ginn is gone and hes there in the second i wouldnt mind taking him and making him a wr.

I don't for some reason, see any team making him a WR. This is one of those crazy "fan" thoughts that would never make it on the pro-level.

Like Vernon Davis, he should be a WR. he's not big, powerful enough to be a blocking TE.

Then again, I thought we'd never move Keisel to OLB.

skarocksoi
03-12-2007, 04:55 PM
I didn't realize we were talking about in the second. I wouldn't be completely against him in the second, but I still think I would rather take a guy like Figurs in the 3rd who gives you the same thing at a lesser value.

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 05:00 PM
I didn't realize we were talking about in the second. I wouldn't be completely against him in the second, but I still think I would rather take a guy like Figurs in the 3rd who gives you the same thing at a lesser value.

Figurs should be a 4th.

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 05:04 PM
What kind of _ are you. Hes a TE

that was in responce to the 'speed is bad' remark

why are you angry at the world?

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 05:19 PM
thats exactly what it is?

that was in responce to the 'speed is bad' remark

why are you angry at the world?


Yea okay buddy

terribletowel39
03-12-2007, 05:36 PM
i think everyone needs to go listen to the chorus of Bastard by Ben Folds because none of us know how anyone will work in the NFL. we don't even know how are own players will play next year. did anyone expect Big Ben to have the most interceptions thrown in the entire league?? no. this is one of the greatest things about the NFL. you never know who is going to be good. you can assume and most of the time you end up being right but there are bust. calvin johnson COULD be a bust. it is very highly unlikely, but he COULD be a bust. we just don't know. we HAVE to trust in our front office. yall going back and forth doesn't make any sense, neither of you are going to budge yall have both made yalls opinion known. but just because we all THINK that this is a bad offseason, doesn't mean everyone has to be at everyone's necks. we are all rooting for the same team remember that.

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 05:37 PM
yeah i agree, people just need to settle down

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 05:37 PM
Yea okay buddy

anytime, pal

terribletowel39
03-12-2007, 05:39 PM
yeah i agree, people just need to settle down

its a great song, so you get that while you learn a life lesson. :D

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 05:42 PM
Wow good one. That was a good one.

Reffering to Mhop

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 05:43 PM
anytime, pal

Response as above.

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 05:44 PM
its a great song, so you get that while you learn a life lesson. :D

hahaha true

mikehop05
03-12-2007, 05:44 PM
Wow good one. That was a good one.

Reffering to Mhop

^ he's an angry elf

terribletowel39
03-12-2007, 05:46 PM
haha you guys are useless.....sighs from failure.

Man_Of_Steel
03-12-2007, 05:59 PM
^ he's an angry elf

wow......
,..,..,.,.,

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 06:15 PM
Offseason Signings:

Sean Mahan: G/C
Atleast 1- 34DE


1) Marshawn Lynch, RB, California (http://youtube.com/watch?v=WxwFmss2EwA)

Positives: Has a solid build with good upper-body muscle definition, big bubble, thick thighs, high calves, broad shoulders, good chest thickness...Can generate a second gear to separate in the open and has the nimble feet needed to make precise lateral cuts...His loose hips and change-of-direction agility make him very elusive avoiding traffic...Keeps his feet after contact and has the pick-and-slide agility to elude when running in-line...Runs with a normal stride, but is very crisp redirecting on the move...Has a good understanding of the offense and blocking schemes...Shows the vision to locate the soft areas in the zone and shows no hesitation redirecting when rush lanes are clogged...Effective blocker and a tough inside runner who loves to challenge the defender in one-on-one situations...Will aggressively take on a tackler and will sacrifice his body to compete for the pass over the middle...Mentally tough character who doesn't let mistakes take him out of his game...Highly respected by his teammates and staff, bringing a good attitude into the locker room with his work ethic and ability to keep the players "loose."...
Shows good in-stride quickness when adjusting his direction and can clear the line of scrimmage in an instant when he keeps his pad level down...Has a quick burst out of his stance and shows steady acceleration on his long runs...Has that competitive quickness and balance, along with loose hips to redirect and separate in the open...Excels at finding cutback lanes...Has the ability to bounce off the tackle and make the initial defender miss...Patient runner who has success because of his feel for the rush lanes, as it is rare to see him run into traffic...Downhill runner with the slippery moves and change-of-direction agility to get through trash...Very good stop-and-go runner, whose precise cutting agility will generally cause the initial tackler overrun and overpursue...Compensates for a lack of sudden sustained speed with very good lateral slide and veering moves to avoid...His balance lets him keep his feet, redirect and race through cutback lanes to gain additional yardage after contact...Has soft, natural hands and does a good job of catching the ball outside his frame...Possesses the vision to look the ball in over his outside shoulder and the cutting agility to separate after the catch...Willing blocker with a good eye for picking up the blitz...Shows good intent and aggression chipping on edge rushers and gives the quarterback enough room to operate when protecting the pocket.

Negatives: Not an explosive runner around the corner, but shows very good patience waiting for blocks to develop...Has good body lean, but sometimes gets too high in his stance when attempting to race into the second level, failing to sidestep low blocks in the process...Can be tripped up when he gets tall in his stance, as he does not always protect his feet...Knows how to get skinny through tight creases, but needs to improve his leg drive, as he is not the type of running who can move the pile...Will sometimes get too fancy and execute multiple moves (see 2006 Washington State, Washington and UCLA games), allowing the defender to recover...Needs to distribute the ball better to keep it away from the defenders (see 2006 Minnesota and Stanford games and 2005 Sacramento State and Oregon State) to prevent costly fumbles...Protects the ball better running through traffic than when bouncing outside, but also struggled some when handling a pitch or toss.

Compares To: JOSEPH ADDAI, Indianapolis Colts (LSU)...Lynch is slippery as an inside runner and, like Addai, is patient and possesses the second gear needed to break away from the pack. He has the acceleration to separate from defenders in the open, excellent arm strength for the option pass and natural hands as a receiver coming out of the backfield.

2) David Harris, MLB, Michigan

Positives: Has a thick upper body frame with good chest muscle definition, broad shoulders, developed arms, thick neck, good thickness in his thighs and calves...Tough and aggressive run defender who is at his best when playing at the line of scrimmage... Has just adequate change of direction agility (stiff hips), but somehow manages to flow to the ball and get into position to make the play...Maintains balance accelerating to close and has a good feel for blocking schemes...Makes all the defensive calls and is good at anticipating the flow of the play...Physical wrap-up tackler who hits with a thud to secure and take down the ball carrier...Can break down and face up when playing in space...Is quicker to read and react to inside plays, but once he sees blocking schemes, he moves quickly to counter...Usually in position to make plays, but needs to stay in control in order to be effective...Steps up with force, keeping his pads down to engage the lead blocker on inside runs and can be stout at the point of attack against single blocks...Has trouble at times stepping over trash, but works hard to shed (shorter than ideal arms cause him to struggle some, though)...When he keeps his pads down, he plays with good leverage and knee bend...Cover-2 type of defender in man coverage, as he can mirror runners on the outside or cover tight ends over the middle...Needs to improve his hip rotation, but is alert to play-action and does a nice job of reading the quarterback when dropping back in zone coverage...Makes plays on the ball once he settles into his area (better when he covers over the middle rather than taking on the slot receiver on intermediate or deep routes)... Stays on his feet moving down the line and shows good pursuit effort inside the box... Breaks down and is a solid tackler, but shows some inconsistencies taking angles in attempts to wrap in space...Has good reach-around ability in attempts to dislodge the ball from the running back...More quick than fast, but carries his pads well and there are no false steps in his closing burst...Despite short arms, he is effective at discarding single blockers on the bull rush.

Negatives: Has a thick frame, but it is at maximum growth potential and any additional bulk will impact his foot speed...Has shorter than ideal arms and fails to keep them inside his frame, causing him to get walled off or struggle in attempts to disengage...Smart player who shows good urgency closing on the ball, but tends to get reckless and over-pursue, lacking the plant-and-drive agility or change of direction quickness to recover in time to get back into the play...Needs to show more patience and let the play come to him (sometimes runs around the field like his hair is on fire)...Good wrap-up tackler, but tends to lead with his shoulder quite a bit rather than generate hand placement or extend his arms in attempts to keep mirror when covering in passing situations...Must keep his hands more active in order to gain separation (struggles vs. double teams)...Some scouts like his lateral agility, but you can see on film that he doesn't open his hips properly and is prone to getting into the rush lanes too slowly, keeping him behind the play (best when taking on single blocks, as he struggles to shed against the combo)...Physical inside plugger, but is a liability as a blitzer, as he is prone to running right into the pile and appears lost in the backfield, lacking the vision to locate the quarterback and fails to generate explosion to close on the pocket... Has durability issues and his left knee might need further medical evaluation.

Compares To: EDGERTON HARTWELL-Atlanta...Hartwell and Harris are physical run stuffers who are better served playing at the line of scrimmage than dropping back in coverage or giving chase along the edge. Neither will excel on the blitz, but are very effective in run containment. Both also have a history of knee problems. That could impact Harris' draft stock, even though he has been relatively healthy the last two seasons. Still, he lacks vision and runs right into piles when trying to penetrate the line, making him better suited for being an inside-the box performer than one who will wreak havoc in the opposition's backfield.

3) James Marten, LG/LT, Boston College

Positives: Has a tall, thick frame with room to add at least another 25 pounds of bulk... Has thick thighs, very long arms, adequate muscle tone and good timed speed...Shows a competitive nature and good toughness, staying with the play until the whistle...Durable player who will not hesitate to mix it up in the trenches...Fights on every play and makes every effort to spring the running back...Smart player who knows his assignments, but is more alert picking up the defender at the line of scrimmage than on the move (lacks second level awareness)...Holds ground when setting up in pass protection and does a decent job of picking up adjustments on stunts...Lacks suddenness or quick-twitch moves, but shows patience waiting for movement to come to him...Generally will finish his blocks, as he knows how to gain position and use his long arms in attempts to sustain... Has the big body to occupy the defender and hold ground at the point of attack...Better as a position blocker, as his feet are too sluggish moving in space (has good short-area quickness, but speed tapers off considerably moving to the second level), but is a decent plodder who knows how to lean, push and hold the rush lane...Has the long arms to make reach blocks, extend, anchor and hold off the pass rusher...His best asset is his punch and lockout ability with his hands, as he keeps them active, gets good placement and is quick to reset and recoil (may overextend at times, but usually recovers)...When he extends those hands to punch, he puts enough force behind his hits to control the defender...Not used on pulls and traps due to stiff hips, but does take good (but slow) angles...Stays with the play and uses his reach to ride defenders away from the pocket... Does a decent job picking up stunts and blitzes, using his hands effectively to defeat counter moves.

Negatives: Very slow coming off the ball into the second level and is too tall in his stance to be used on pulls and traps, making him a liability at offensive guard...Lacks the quick feet to mirror edge rushers in pass protection at left tackle, but will need to add bulk to his frame for a possible move to right tackle (so they can cover up his pass protection deficiencies vs. the speed rush, he is better suited for the right side)...Lacks suddenness to gain movement on contact...Too clumsy moving in space and will generally cross his feet and fall to the ground due to poor balance issues on the move...Plays with a wide base and his feet tend to die when he has to retreat in pass protection (often beaten off the edge)...Too stiff in his hips to redirect and while he has a strong hand punch, he needs to use it more often, as he lacks consistency shocking the defender with pop on contact...Is too tall to sink his weight and with marginal leg drive, he can be pushed back into the pocket...Lacks knee bend and drops his head too much on the move, struggling to locate second level defenders.

Compares To: JEREMY TRUEBLOOD-Tampa Bay...Marten is a Trueblood clone -- a college left tackle who is too slow-footed to pull and trap as a guard and has some strength and lateral movement issues that make him a liability at left tackle. With additional bulk, Marten might be a better fit at right tackle. He is a good short-area drive blocker with a strong hand punch and placement, but at right tackle his pass protection deficiencies against edge rushers can be covered up better than when isolated on the left side.

4a) Kenny Scott, CB, Georgia Tech

Positives: Tall, lean, long-armed athlete. Rare height for the position at 6-1 and has the frame to add as much as 20 pounds. At his best in man coverage. Good physical jam at the line of scrimmage and has the speed to run deep. Uses his long arms well to disrupt the timing of receivers as they go through their routes. Has shown good improvement this season at tipping passes away (or intercepting them) at their highest point, taking better advantage of his height and long arms. Comes up strong to support the run and isn't shy about contact. Can be a bit hitter.

Negatives: As is the case with most tall cornerbacks, Scott struggles some with changing directions quickly when mirroring receivers. He is fast enough to still be effective in man coverage, but can be beaten by smaller, quicker wideouts. Better in man coverage due to his long speed and sneaky physicality as he runs with wideouts. Struggles some in zone as he tries to read the quarterback's eyes and will drift from his assignment, creating opportunities for savvy receivers.
.

4b) Jay Alford, DT/DE, Penn State

Positives: Has adequate upper body development with a thick chest, thighs and calves and the frame that can add at least 15 pounds with no loss of quickness...Combative type with a quick initial step in attempts to gain advantage...Has very good mobility and range for an interior lineman and could be utilized as a 3-4 defensive end due to his quick first step...Product of the training room, having added 40 pounds of muscle to his frame since arriving on campus as a freshman...Compensates for a lack of strength with a sudden burst that generally puts offensive linemen on their heels coming off the snap...His consistency in getting a jump off the ball and taking good angles let him apply steady pocket pressure...Flashes suddenness to gain advantage and has a good feel for blocking schemes and screens...Active moving down the line and has the closing speed to make plays on ball carriers along the perimeter...One-gap type who flows and fights to get to the ball...Uses his hands effectively to defeat blocks and uses his lateral agility to avoid the opponent on the move...Frees himself well with his feet to close on the ball when engaging single blocks...Routinely chases down plays outside the block, making him a better end candidate than tackle...Quick-twitch player with the ability to quickly diagnose the plays...Active in pursuit, showing a fluid lateral slide and is an effective wrap-up tackler when he stays low in his pads...Intense pass rusher with an array of moves to go along with his mobility in attempts to shoot the inside gaps...When sinking his pads, he is much more effective at gaining leverage on the bull rush...Good second effort type of pass rusher with quick change of direction agility on the move...Shows improvement in keeping his hands active to prevent blockers from latching on...Works hard to replace his hands when engaging blockers...Will close and deliver the big hit flushing out the quarterback (very quick over five yards), flashing that extra surge to seal the deal...Quick reader who won't bite on misdirection or play-action.

Negatives: Gets too high in his stance at times, losing balance and leverage when trying to anchor...Tends to get over-aggressive at times as he tries to out-muscle rather than using his array of spin moves. That causes him to get washed out on the play, as he has marginal strength to anchor or split double teams...Lacks the wide, natural base to play in a two-gap system...Will over-pursue, losing leverage in the process, as he needs to restart to get back into the play rather than flow to the ball...Needs to wrap securely as a tackler, as he lacks explosion behind his hits (does not follow through when delivering a hit)...Lacks the bulk to stack and control playing the interior, but has just short-area quickness, lacking the sustained speed to be effective rushing off the edge...Better when on the move, as his lack of bulk causes him to struggle trying to disengage from multiple blocks...Gets frustrated when his initial move fails and will then throttle down...Good wrap-up tackler when he gets into position to make the play, but more often than not he will get his hands outside his frame, swing wildly, whiff or make arm tackles rather than securing the ball carrier.

Compares To: CLAUDE WROTEN-St. Louis...Alford is a classic overachiever, but lacks the bulk and overall strength to face up and split double teams. He is a move-oriented pass rusher who compensates for a lack of raw power with a quick initial burst to shock offensive linemen and rock his opponents back on their heels. Like Wroten, he might lack the sand in his pants to play regularly in a base defense, but while he is a good interior pass rusher, he lacks the sustained speed to be utilized as a full-time defensive end.



4c) David Ball, WR, New Hampshire

Positives: Has excellent leaping ability and soft hands to reach and extend for the ball outside his frame...Has marginal playing speed, but shows outstanding agility and balance competing for the ball...Not fast, but is able to elude second level defenders with his body control...Times his leaps and uses his track skills to win most jump ball battles...Hard worker in practices and shows good field awareness to locate and settle into the soft areas on the field...Does a very good job with his head fakes to set up the defender and much like Ricky Proehl (Colts), he is savvy enough to sneak past his opponent and get open when working underneath...Best when working in the short-to-intermediate areas and could be more effective as a slot receiver at the next level...Gets his feet down when working along the sidelines and does a nice job of adjusting and coming back for the ball on the quarterback scramble...Will make proper adjustments in his routes to get open...Uses his hands with force to get a good push off the jam and does an effective job of screening defenders off the ball...Has the hands and body control to get to the pass on controlled routes and slants...Has the hand/eye coordination to look the ball in and shows enough touch to pluck and snatch...Natural hands catcher who is good at securing the ball before turning upfield...Uses his body adjustment skills and leaping ability to go up and over the defender to reach the ball at its high point...Has excellent focus to make the acrobatic catches with defenders all over him...Will not hesitate to take a punishing hit if it means he can get to the ball...Can extend, reach low or behind to make the grab...No receiver in college maintains relationship with the ball in flight like Ball, as he seems to block out the oncoming tackler and shows no flinch going vertical to make the tough catch in a crowd...Strong runner after the catch who can easily run through cornerbacks that fail to wrap him up...Even without good timed speed, he gains positive yardage after the catch by fighting hard to move the chains and shows good forward lean...His body control and hip snap leaves lethargic defenders grasping at air...Needs to improve his overall strength, but he gets good hand placement and pad level to block and sustain along the line...Goes after second level defenders with a vengeance and can deliver a jarring open field cut block.

Negatives: While Ball shows good strength to break tackles after the catch, he has marginal overall muscle tone, especially in his arms (very thin)...Smooth-skinned athlete with adequate thigh and calf thickness...Gets to top speed with a rolling start, but lacks suddenness or explosion to immediately beat the cornerback on his initial surge...Has very good hands and determination to get to the ball, but tends to take soft angle cuts and rounds his breaks while lacking the functional quickness to elude (relies more on moves to separate than acceleration)...Sets up defenders well, but will generally lose the foot race in the open...Does well academically, but will struggle with a complicated playbook and needs more than several reps to retain...Can settle underneath and has good hip snap, but will take false steps, negating his change of direction agility.

Compares To: LARRY FITZGERALD-Arizona-Ball is nowhere near as fast or strong as Fitzgerald, but both maintain incredible focus going after the ball and making body adjustments to reach the pass at its high point. Ball has the natural hands that let him get to balls that are nearly impossible to catch. If he only had speed, he'd rank among the position's elite.


5) Sabby Piscatelli, SS, Oregon State

Positives: Has a defined, angular frame with the growth potential to add more bulk without any decrease in his impressive quickness...Possesses a V-shaped torso with a well-defined upper body, good bubble, developed calves and good chest thickness...Has the loose hips and sudden burst to close on the ball in a hurry and shows good body control in transition...Shows the nimble feet and excellent hand/eye coordination, along with the leaping ability to get fine elevation going up to get to the pass at its high point...Smart and instinctive enough to make the calls and handle the assignments in the secondary...Needs only minimal reps to retain and does a good job of taking the plays from the chalkboard to the playing field...His quickness and ability to take proper angles allows him to close on the ball and string plays wide in run support...Has the vision to make plays with his back to the ball, doing a nice job of looking the pass in over his shoulders...Displays quick feet to match up with almost any opponent and looks very natural turning and running to the ball...His speed allows him to cut off routes and stays in proper position by keeping his eyes on his assignment ...Has excellent quickness and body control to keep tight on the receiver's hip...Keeps his feet under him and his body in control throughout transition breaks and has a low, smooth pedal...When Piscitelli stays low in his pads, he is quick to get into position to make the play...Has a good grasp of taking angles to close and explosive acceleration coming out of his breaks...Will frustrate a quarterback with the way he can anticipate the throw and his plant-and-drive agility is exceptional, as it lets him get a fine jump on the ball...Is so quick in transition that he doesn't even need to accelerate much to stay tight with the receiver on deep routes...For a player of his size, it is very impressive the way he can keep the plays in front of him, but it is mostly due to his quickness while maintaining body control...Is the type who knows how to ride up the receiver and use his arms to either deflect or catch the ball in flight...With his foot speed, size and playing strength, he can match up with the split ends and flankers on deep routes or out-muscle tight ends and backs going for the ball underneath...Has the hip swerve to adjust to the ball on the move and does a nice job of getting into position to make the play...With his strength, he is effective at interrupting the route's progression...Shows a good feel for the cutback lanes and has no problems taking down the runner once he locks on to the opponent.

Negatives: Has only average-sized hands, but does a fine job of extending and catching away from his frame...Knows how to keep plays in front of him, but you would hope that the coaching staff would utilize that quickness more by using him as a blitzer...Used to have a small hitch in his turn, which forced him to get his weight back and be on his heels some as a sophomore, but he recognized and corrected that problem, resulting in him allowing only eight catches in 2005 compared to 14 in 2004...Has the size to take on the lead blockers, but must be more alert to chop blocks when working through trash (susceptible to low blocks)...Still needs to develop a better feel for double teams, but shows the vision to locate the support lanes and takes good angles to the ball...With his speed, you hope that one day the coaching staff will let him use that quickness more in backside pursuit...Gets into trouble when he dives or tries to make grab tackles...With his weight room strength, he should be more of a collision-type tackler, but he does use his speed well to make plays in space.

Compares To: ADAM ARCHULETA-Washington...Piscitelli is faster and has much better range than Archuleta, but both do an excellent job of keeping plays in front of them. Piscitelli has natural hands for the interception and can play either safety position. With his effectiveness vs. the run, he could also see action as a linebacker in a Cover-2 scheme.

6) Brian Smith, OLB, Missouri

Is Mizzou's career record holder in QB sacks, who gives MU one of the premier pass rushers in the Big 12 Conference as well as the nation ... Saw his production pick up dramatically last season when he played in all situations, instead of specializing in passing downs, as he did primarily each of his first 2 seasons as a Tiger ... Has an impressive array of pass rush moves that get him in the backfield quickly, along with his natural speed and elusiveness ... Is also a very tough player, as evidenced by the fact that he had his right knee scoped just 2 weeks prior to the Tigers' bowl game against South Carolina, and he rehabbed quickly enough to play in the game ... A little known fact is that he played the entire 2005 season with a meniscus tear in that knee, before he aggravated the injury in practice that forced the surgery prior to the bowl game ... Is completely recovered from that event ... Is listed atop the depth chart at one defensive end position heading into the spring practice period.

7) Ryne Robinson, WR/KR, Miami(OH)

Positives: Has a lean, angular frame that is built for speed, showing good chest muscle definition with a tapered waist, good shoulder width, tight abdomen, developed thighs and calves...Has excellent body flexibility and hip snap, dropping his weight and keeping his pads down to accelerate instantly coming out of his cuts...Has fine balance in his running stride, executing crisp plant-and-drive skills to get in and out of his breaks...Possesses the speed to challenge the deep secondary and the body control to make adjustments through his routes...Smart, instinctive runner and also does well in the classroom...Picks up plays quickly and is alert to coverages, doing a nice job of finding the soft spot in the zone to settle in...Regarded by the staff the team's "most trustworthy" player, as he works hard in the training and film rooms, showing good self-starting ability...Capable of getting to the ball in a crowd and there is no flinch to him, even when he knows the defense is about to drill him...Has the ability to accelerate into his routes instantly and shows good urgency in and out of his cuts...Demonstrates a crisp running style and does a nice job adjusting his body to get to the underneath throws...His speed lets him drive off the coverage and come back for the easy yards...Takes short, pitter-patter steps to accelerate off the line of scrimmage, and has the explosion to gain on the cornerback and eat the cushion in attempts to challenge deep...Can sink and slip through traffic due to his lateral agility and is very alert of the sidelines, doing a nice job of keeping his feet in bounds...Displays the body control to sink his hips to get better separation in-and-out of his cuts and does a very good job of finding the soft spot and settling in vs. zone coverage...Whether working underneath or attacking the deep zone, Robinson's hip snap and ability to ride up the defensive back lets him gain immediate separation after the catch...Shows the nimbleness to maintain balance and turn instantly to head up field after the catch...Maintains good focus when looking the ball in, and does not hesitate to get vertical to make the play...Best when contorting his body and looking the ball in over his shoulder on deep routes...Has developed good hand mechanics to extend for the ball away from the frame...Will sometimes revert to body catching, but has the timing and snatch ability to get to the ball at its high point...Needs to add some more bulk and strength, but has that second gear and burst to leave defenders grabbing at air...Has no problem competing with the opponent after contact, and has the balance and leg drive to stay up after taking the initial hit.

Negatives: Has functional playing power, but will need to upgrade in this area to prevent from being rerouted by the more physical pro defensive backs...Earlier in his career, Robinson did not utilize his explosiveness with consistency in attempts to get a clean release off the snap...Could use some more bulk to escape the jam, but has more than enough quickness to escape and get back on the stem...Demonstrates sure hands to look the ball in, but must be more conscious of securing the ball before heading up field)...Shows better consistency getting into his routes than earlier in his career (used to take some soft angle cuts)...Still learning how to vary his speed, but has shown improvement each week, as he no longer out-runs the ball and is smart enough to uncover and has the burst to go down field in a flash...More of a pester-type of blocker than one who will face up at the line of scrimmage.

Compares To: LAVERANUES COLES-New York Jets-Like Coles, Robinson has that explosive running stride and acceleration to separate after the catch. Both are fearless catching in a crowd and show great sideline awareness, body control and loose hips to turn a short catch into a big play.




UDFA:

Adam Graessle, P, Pittsburgh

Positives: Rare size for the position and good leg strength. Averaged 42 yards over his junior and senior seasons. Also handled the kickoff duties, in which over a third were touchbacks (23 of 66) as a senior. Shows touch, with 21 punts downed inside the 20-yard line and 11 fair caught with only one touchback as a senior. Improved release time as a senior, not having a single punt blocked.

Negatives: Better distance than directional kicker and can be a little erratic. Relied on strong protection in the past and is still working on getting the ball off quicker.

mikehop05
03-13-2007, 12:40 AM
wow i am pretty impressed with all of the write up, the analysis etc.

i like most of the picks, i know you are going BPA but i just... ahh i dont know, i think marshawn lynch will be a good back, however, after willies season i just dont know if we should invest that money into a back who wont be our feature back fora couple of years

but then again thats what happened with the chiefs when they picked LJ when they had priest... though priest was older... but LJ turned out alright now didnt he??

everything else seems pretty good to me, i know you said u want to sign one more olb/de, but whos out there still??

Mr. Stiller
03-13-2007, 01:26 AM
wow i am pretty impressed with all of the write up, the analysis etc.

i like most of the picks, i know you are going BPA but i just... ahh i dont know, i think marshawn lynch will be a good back, however, after willies season i just dont know if we should invest that money into a back who wont be our feature back fora couple of years

but then again thats what happened with the chiefs when they picked LJ when they had priest... though priest was older... but LJ turned out alright now didnt he??

everything else seems pretty good to me, i know you said u want to sign one more olb/de, but whos out there still??

First, Marshawn will get plenty of PT. He's not Reggie Bush, but he can be used the same. He's got Great hands, and he's a powerful runner. He's also the best damn blocking RB in the draft. He can take 5-10 Carries and 2-5 pass attempts a game. He could be the 3rd WR, which in this case I should have addressed some other position where I put Ball. He's also got a lot better vision than Willie. But Willie's the game breaker.

And hell. In 3-4 years, we could command a kings ransom for MarShawn like SD is doing for Turner?

Yea. Again. Weak draft, the only person of Value at our pick thats worthwhile is Marshawn. I'd like to trade down, but frankly, Marshawn gives us an offensive weapon. He's a better All-Around RB than Bush, and he can split out. He has the size and power and he's a hell of a blocker.. anyone up for a Najeh Davenport/Marshawn Lynch 2RB Shotgun 3 wide Formation with Ward, Holmes and Wilson? we have 5 receiving options, 2 solid blockers.

As for 3-4 DE's

Possible Guys

* Alvin McKinley, CLE?
* Ron Edwards, KC?
* Jimmy Wilkerson, KC?
* Robaire Smith, TEN?
* Chris Cooper, ARZ?
* Alfonso Boone, CHI?
* Brandon Greene, STL?
* Joe Tafoya, SEA?



RFAS:

* Tony Hargrove, BUF - 3rd
* Josh Thomas, IND - 2nd
* Randy Starks, TEN - 3rd
* Jordan Carstens, CAR - 2nd
* Spencer Johnson, MIN - ROFR
* Darrion Scott, MIN - 3rd
* Craig Terrill, SEA -6th

TheGunShow
03-13-2007, 03:27 PM
He's also the best damn blocking RB in the draft.

Tony Hunt is easily the best damn blocking RB in the draft. Better than Lynch and even better than Brian Leonard!

skarocksoi
03-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Tony Hunt is easily the best damn blocking RB in the draft. Better than Lynch and even better than Brian Leonard!

I second that notion, although I really haven't seen enough of Lynch to tell what his level is. Hunt is great though, but he needs to work on his upperbody strength a little in my opinion. Some time with a professional weight trainer and he would be even more beastly.

Man_Of_Steel
03-13-2007, 04:03 PM
Hunt, Leonard, Bush and Peterson are all better blockers.

Mr. Stiller
03-13-2007, 07:37 PM
Hunt, Leonard, Bush and Peterson are all better blockers.

First and Foremost, Peterson isn't a better blocker, he does that stupid dive at your knees. Leonard could be, as Well as Hunt.


Bush I disagree with.

Just because they're Big RB's doesn't mean they're great blockers. I watched Lynch knock Haloti Ngata on his ass, without doing that stupid cut blocking. He's top 3 atleast, and frankly In my opinion, I think he's the best.

But I'm sure, He can't be, just because I think he is. Because it's fact that all those guys are better blockers.

Man_Of_Steel
03-13-2007, 10:06 PM
First and Foremost, Peterson isn't a better blocker, he does that stupid dive at your knees. Leonard could be, as Well as Hunt.


Bush I disagree with.

Just because they're Big RB's doesn't mean they're great blockers. I watched Lynch knock Haloti Ngata on his ass, without doing that stupid cut blocking. He's top 3 atleast, and frankly In my opinion, I think he's the best.

But I'm sure, He can't be, just because I think he is. Because it's fact that all those guys are better blockers.

There shouldnt even be a debate about Leonard, Hunt or Bush. To say oyu disagree with Bush tells me that you have never seen him play ever. His one of the better pass blocking running backs in the country If you were too ever see him play youd relize that. Also if you want a proffesionals opinion ask Mike Mayock. On Path To The Draft running backs edition he called Bush a polished blocker and when analyzing Lynch said he needs to gain some kind of momentum before the point of contact or he'l keep getting side swiped or run over every forth play.

Also to address Peterson what is wrong with the cutblock? Its basic knowledge that its the most effective block their is. I guess you didnt know that RB coaches stress the cutblock. RB that can cut block are praised and Petersons pretty nearly mastered it.

I cant help but feel you know nothing about blocking. You say Davenport is a great blocker, which he isnt, hence cut from GB. And now you throw out this bull. You really have no idea what so ever about this topic. Also you really should watch players in games if your gonna debate about them. Obviosly you didnt see Bush his Junior season. Also how you can think Leonard(fb/rb tweener) and Hunt are worse blockers than Lynch is absurd.

Mr. Stiller
03-13-2007, 10:27 PM
There shouldnt even be a debate about Leonard, Hunt or Bush. To say oyu disagree with Bush tells me that you have never seen him play ever. His one of the better pass blocking running backs in the country If you were too ever see him play youd relize that. Also if you want a proffesionals opinion ask Mike Mayock. On Path To The Draft running backs edition he called Bush a polished blocker and when analyzing Lynch said he needs to gain some kind of momentum before the point of contact or he'l keep getting side swiped or run over every forth play.

Also to address Peterson what is wrong with the cutblock? Its basic knowledge that its the most effective block their is. I guess you didnt know that RB coaches stress the cutblock. RB that can cut block are praised and Petersons pretty nearly mastered it.

I cant help but feel you know nothing about blocking. You say Davenport is a great blocker, which he isnt, hence cut from GB. And now you throw out this bull. You really have no idea what so ever about this topic. Also you really should watch players in games if your gonna debate about them. Obviosly you didnt see Bush his Junior season. Also how you can think Leonard(fb/rb tweener) and Hunt are worse blockers than Lynch is absurd.

Uh oh someone disagrees with you... oh NO!..

Frankly I've watched Big east football a lot. I know Bush and his capabilities. Don't worry I'll call up Mayock. Yea Lynch has to get stronger at the point of attack.. Fine, so do all the RB's. I know the Cutblock is stressed, But I do think it's a bad move. Peterson's only able to block by doing it. Lynch can actually stand a guy up without cutblocking. Thats impressive.

Your right as a 4 years letterman at MLB and RB, I know absolutely nothing about blocking. I watched Bush a lot last year because I wanted to draft him last year. I also stated Lynch is a great Blocker for RB. Just because Leonard wants to be a RB, doesn't mean he is. He's a good blocker, but frankly if you were to draft him on his blocking skills alone (Which you'd do with all fullbacks but him) he would be a UDFA or a late late pick. He's not that great of a blocker, he's just versatile.

And I'm sure Davenport being cut from GB was solely on his inability to block, you know instead of his main job, being a healthy RB.

Davenport is the best blocking RB we have, as of Now. He's not that much worse than Verron, if at all. Lynch would come in and be the best blocking RB.

But I'm glad out of that whole mock, you got the fact that I think Lynch is a great blocker, instead of his versatility and abilities. Instead of seeing why I liked him at 15 you're worried that I like his blocking..

Nice Call.

Man_Of_Steel
03-14-2007, 12:39 AM
I wrote about blocking because it was brought up by gunshow and sharock.
What you wrote above is pretty much just grabage and trying to cover your tail.
You were 4 years leterman at lb and rb, where?when?

Since you have your own draft site why on earth do you have 2000+ posts here. Go ahead and answer. I'll give my thoughts. Its because your site must be prety bad and the content worse. The majority of what you post here is false and without merrit, so why on earth would people go to your site and read the same bull.
Its pretty embarrassing that you have 2000+ posts on a opposing draft site and your site probably dosent even have 2000 posts total.
Stay over at your site, then you can write all you want and theres no one there to call your bluff.

mikehop05
03-14-2007, 12:56 AM
I wrote about blocking because it was brought up by gunshow and sharock.
What you wrote above is pretty much just grabage and trying to cover your tail.
You were 4 years leterman at lb and rb, where?when?

Since you have your own draft site why on earth do you have 2000+ posts here. Go ahead and answer. I'll give my thoughts. Its because your site must be prety bad and the content worse. The majority of what you post here is false and without merrit, so why on earth would people go to your site and read the same bull.
Its pretty embarrassing that you have 2000+ posts on a opposing draft site and your site probably dosent even have 2000 posts total.
Stay over at your site, then you can write all you want and theres no one there to call your bluff.

how did this forum turn so damn hostile

i know i am part of it too, but i realized it and have started trying to get my opinions across in a non-confertational way...

i think everyone needs to step back and look at this mess, and realize that we may have opposing views but we gotta learn to argue and really just accept that we must agree to disagree

this forum isnt even productive anymore, and honestly we all have started to focus more on each other and putting them down / proving them wrong, etc. instead of focusing on what we should, such as the topics at hand (draft discussion) etc.

i know im not exempt from this statement and in writing it i know ive done a lot of this, and honestly arguing is good in that you get to hear other peoples views, etc. but this shits ricidulous now...

terribletowel39
03-14-2007, 01:13 AM
how did this forum turn so damn hostile

i know i am part of it too, but i realized it and have started trying to get my opinions across in a non-confertational way...

i think everyone needs to step back and look at this mess, and realize that we may have opposing views but we gotta learn to argue and really just accept that we must agree to disagree

this forum isnt even productive anymore, and honestly we all have started to focus more on each other and putting them down / proving them wrong, etc. instead of focusing on what we should, such as the topics at hand (draft discussion) etc.

i know im not exempt from this statement and in writing it i know ive done a lot of this, and honestly arguing is good in that you get to hear other peoples views, etc. but this shits ricidulous now...

spoken wisely. fully agree that we as in everyone needs to get back on track with what the topic is and not who posted it and how blasphemous it is that they think that way and all this hoopla.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:21 AM
so did anyone see bowe's pro day?? correct me if i am wrong but did he work out at the combine?? i'm not sure but his pro day is mighty impressive, i big guy, great blocker, good hands, and ran a 4.49 and 4.40 and i think it was a 38in vert. i've always been a fan of his growing up in louisiana but now i like him even more. he would be the perfect replacement for hines, hands down. just i thought though.

mikehop05
03-15-2007, 12:34 AM
so did anyone see bowe's pro day?? correct me if i am wrong but did he work out at the combine?? i'm not sure but his pro day is mighty impressive, i big guy, great blocker, good hands, and ran a 4.49 and 4.40 and i think it was a 38in vert. i've always been a fan of his growing up in louisiana but now i like him even more. he would be the perfect replacement for hines, hands down. just i thought though.

yeah and dude is almost as cut as me

i really like him

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:42 AM
yeah and dude is almost as cut as me

i really like him

haha why you trying to act like you the incredible hulk?? but for real, yes the more i think about the more i want to grab him, it is a toss up between him and lynch i believe at BPA at 15. so i dont' know.

mikehop05
03-15-2007, 12:58 AM
haha why you trying to act like you the incredible hulk?? but for real, yes the more i think about the more i want to grab him, it is a toss up between him and lynch i believe at BPA at 15. so i dont' know.

hahah im just sayin.. take away his cut muscels, his speed, his hops, and his braids, and you pretty much got me

only white

and lighter

and weaker

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 01:01 AM
hahah im just sayin.. take away his cut muscels, his speed, his hops, and his braids, and you pretty much got me

only white

and lighter

and weaker

and don't forget what they say about black ppl.......thats gotta go too. haha don't even act like you got the movie anaconda coming out of your pants.

mikehop05
03-15-2007, 01:33 AM
and don't forget what they say about black ppl.......thats gotta go too. haha don't even act like you got the movie anaconda coming out of your pants.

hahah, alright alright

but on a serious note, i hope his work ethic and drive is as good as wards, his measurables trump him...

but without the passion and desire, those #'s mean nothing

Mr. Stiller
03-15-2007, 05:44 AM
I wrote about blocking because it was brought up by gunshow and sharock.
What you wrote above is pretty much just grabage and trying to cover your tail.
You were 4 years leterman at lb and rb, where?when?

Since you have your own draft site why on earth do you have 2000+ posts here. Go ahead and answer. I'll give my thoughts. Its because your site must be prety bad and the content worse. The majority of what you post here is false and without merrit, so why on earth would people go to your site and read the same bull.
Its pretty embarrassing that you have 2000+ posts on a opposing draft site and your site probably dosent even have 2000 posts total.
Stay over at your site, then you can write all you want and theres no one there to call your bluff.


4 year letterman at Central Cambria High School who's coach just recently got hired to an IFL team.

Because I like talking football, and because there is a lack of Steelers fans on my forum. You got it, my site is horrible.

As for the posts, It couldn't have been because I've been on this site for 2 years (Under 2 different Accounts) and then started talking Steelers Football fulltime over here? No... It couldn't be because I like interacting with other steelers fans.. It's immediately because my site is horrible.

So we're basing all our annoyances on each other as assumptions. So if I were to play that game and Assume you were a 12-year old that likes men and has herpes? Is that any more productive than what you said? Nope. You're attackign me and not the post. Brilliant Logic.


In highschool I didn't have to cutblock. My coach stressed it as a last ditch effort because it is dangerous. My friend is actually in a wheelchair because of a cutblock. He could have been a D1 star.. 4.4 40' at 6'5 258lbs. But 1 cutblock ended his football career, and his ability to walk. Which is why I applaud Guys who don't cutblock..

Guys that don't have to cutblock make it impressive, Because Lynch can block without diving and the more "powerful" AP can only cutblock, therefore he is a better blocker? Come on.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 10:10 AM
so what about that bowe kid?? huh???

darnik44two
03-15-2007, 11:46 AM
note: I am assuming the Steelers get atleast one compensatory pick. 4b is their comp pick.

1. Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska - Carriker would be the perfect pick (if still available) because of his versatility. I really don't expect the 3-4 to be around in Pittsburgh much longer or Tomlin would come out and say yes we are sticking with the 3-4. I expect it to be a slow process using both the 3-4 and 4-3 for a year or two. Carriker can play anywhere along the defensive line during the transition period.

2. Brian Leonard, HB/FB, Rutgers - The guy is flat out a solid football player. I could see him being very valuble on special teams as well as being the 3rd down back, a change of pace back and short yardage back. I could also see him as an eventual replacement for Kreider.

3. Jacoby Jones, WR, Lane College - Jones is a big WR and the Steelers have really lacked that big WR since Plaxico left.

4. Desmond Bishop, ILB/OLB, California- Bishop is simply a Steelers type ILB. He's versatile enough to play ILB or OLB in a 4-3 system.

4b. Toby Korrodi, QB, Central Missouri St.- They have been looking for a guy to groom as an eventual back-up to Roethlisberger. This guy in alot of ways is similar to Roethlisberger. He has alot of upside and potential. Getting a back-up with a similar style as the starter makes sense to me.

5. Ameer Ismail, OLB/S, Western Michigan - This guy plays alot like Polamalu, he flies around the field and makes plays. He could be one of the big sleepers of this draft.

6. Robert Herbert, CB/S, Colorado State - Anyone who has seen this guy play can understand why I have him here. He is the most physical hard hitting CB I've ever seen. Probably not a starting CB caliber player, but he could be great in the nickle and dime.

7. Daniel Coats, TE, Brigham Young - They have really been looking to add another TE. Seems like they draft one every year.

This looks like a typical Steelers type draft. Not alot of big names, just alot of good football players.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:07 PM
note: I am assuming the Steelers get atleast one compensatory pick. 4b is their comp pick.

1. Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska - Carriker would be the perfect pick (if still available) because of his versatility. I really don't expect the 3-4 to be around in Pittsburgh much longer or Tomlin would come out and say yes we are sticking with the 3-4. I expect it to be a slow process using both the 3-4 and 4-3 for a year or two. Carriker can play anywhere along the defensive line during the transition period.

2. Brian Leonard, HB/FB, Rutgers - The guy is flat out a solid football player. I could see him being very valuble on special teams as well as being the 3rd down back, a change of pace back and short yardage back. I could also see him as an eventual replacement for Kreider.

3. Jacoby Jones, WR, Lane College - Jones is a big WR and the Steelers have really lacked that big WR since Plaxico left.

4. Desmond Bishop, ILB/OLB, California- Bishop is simply a Steelers type ILB. He's versatile enough to play ILB or OLB in a 4-3 system.

4b. Toby Korrodi, QB, Central Missouri St.- They have been looking for a guy to groom as an eventual back-up to Roethlisberger. This guy in alot of ways is similar to Roethlisberger. He has alot of upside and potential. Getting a back-up with a similar style as the starter makes sense to me.

5. Ameer Ismail, OLB/S, Western Michigan - This guy plays alot like Polamalu, he flies around the field and makes plays. He could be one of the big sleepers of this draft.

6. Robert Herbert, CB/S, Colorado State - Anyone who has seen this guy play can understand why I have him here. He is the most physical hard hitting CB I've ever seen. Probably not a starting CB caliber player, but he could be great in the nickle and dime.

7. Daniel Coats, TE, Brigham Young - They have really been looking to add another TE. Seems like they draft one every year.

This looks like a typical Steelers type draft. Not alot of big names, just alot of good football players.

me likey this mock. i don't think carriker will be there at 15 though but if he is this is good. if he is not i think we should either go moss or BPA. in BPA case, i believe that is Bowe, which would eliminate jacoby jones need. and i'm not a mock draft maker so i don't know who we could get, maybe ilama-francis, who i believe could be great in a 3-4 or a 4-3. substitue carriker from francis and let him learn behind A. Smith. just a thought though.

darnik44two
03-15-2007, 12:14 PM
Yeah I agree Bowe would be a good alternative and also I wouldn't mind Revis. I don't know if Carriker will be there, but I'm likeing the possibility alot better than I did a couple weeks ago. As far as Moss, I've become convinced he's really only a 3-4 OLB prospect. So me loving the 3-4 would be happy with that pick, I just don't think the 3-4 will be around in Pittsburgh much longer. I like the Ilama-Francis sub if they go Bowe or Revis, and Revis would take the Herbert pick out of the equation but keep Jones in if they went Revis.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:22 PM
Yeah I agree Bowe would be a good alternative and also I wouldn't mind Revis. I don't know if Carriker will be there, but I'm likeing the possibility alot better than I did a couple weeks ago. As far as Moss, I've become convinced he's really only a 3-4 OLB prospect. So me loving the 3-4 would be happy with that pick, I just don't think the 3-4 will be around in Pittsburgh much longer. I like the Ilama-Francis sub if they go Bowe or Revis, and Revis would take the Herbert pick out of the equation but keep Jones in if they went Revis.

yea the reason i would like bowe over revis, although revis wouldn't be a bad pick, is that i think the corners we have right now, are more than capable of being excellent corners. taylor and mcfadden both have shown what they can do, if only they could do it week in and week out. bowe also makes sense to me because ward shouldn't have more 3-4 more yrs on him. he should end his career as a steeler and you couldn't ask for a better replacement for him. just as agressive, in both passing and the running game. and plus the last LSU you guy didn't to that bad for us, did he?? haha can we say POTENTIAL HoFer??

slurve
03-15-2007, 12:30 PM
Mr. Stiller

Simply put, you are full of it. Not only D1 star, he'd be the No 1 pick in the draft.


He could have been a D1 star.. 4.4 40' at 6'5 258lbs.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:37 PM
Mr. Stiller

Simply put, you are full of it. Not only D1 star, he'd be the No 1 pick in the draft.

thats not what we are talking about now.

darnik44two
03-15-2007, 12:41 PM
yea the reason i would like bowe over revis, although revis wouldn't be a bad pick, is that i think the corners we have right now, are more than capable of being excellent corners. taylor and mcfadden both have shown what they can do, if only they could do it week in and week out. bowe also makes sense to me because ward shouldn't have more 3-4 more yrs on him. he should end his career as a steeler and you couldn't ask for a better replacement for him. just as agressive, in both passing and the running game. and plus the last LSU you guy didn't to that bad for us, did he?? haha can we say POTENTIAL HoFer??

Well Tomlin was at LSU's pro day yesterday. For the H.C. to be at a pro day that says they have someone they are interested in from LSU. We can rule out Russell, and I'm not sure they would be looking too hard at Landry. For one it would require them trading up I'm almost certain. Two, they have to be high on Anthony Smith, I know I am and Ryan Clark didn't do a bad job either. I can't really think of anyone else from LSU that would get Tomlin there.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:44 PM
Well Tomlin was at LSU's pro day yesterday. For the H.C. to be at a pro day that says they have someone they are interested in from LSU. We can rule out Russell, and I'm not sure they would be looking too hard at Landry. For one it would require them trading up I'm almost certain. Two, they have to be high on Anthony Smith, I know I am and Ryan Clark didn't do a bad job either. I can't really think of anyone else from LSU that would get Tomlin there.


i agree with you on russell and landry as i think landry has less of a bust factor than any prospect in this draft. the only guys that i think he could be looking at. is bowe, craig davis, who is another great WR in the realms of the steve smiths and gonzo, all three of those are solid 2nd rd picks and could become starters. he could have also been looking at chase pittman or justin vincent. vincent runs with lots of power and is somewhat shifty for his size. great size as he is like 5-11 and almost 230. he caught balls from JR as well so that has to mean he can catch. he was the guy that broke the long as run first play as a freshman in the LSU OU championship game 3-4 yrs ago.

darnik44two
03-15-2007, 12:53 PM
i agree with you on russell and landry as i think landry has less of a bust factor than any prospect in this draft. the only guys that i think he could be looking at. is bowe, craig davis, who is another great WR in the realms of the steve smiths and gonzo, all three of those are solid 2nd rd picks and could become starters. he could have also been looking at chase pittman or justin vincent. vincent runs with lots of power and is somewhat shifty for his size. great size as he is like 5-11 and almost 230. he caught balls from JR as well so that has to mean he can catch. he was the guy that broke the long as run first play as a freshman in the LSU OU championship game 3-4 yrs ago.

I forgot about Davis. I thought about Pittman and Vincent, but is it common for the H.C. to attend a pro day to check out potential day 2 picks? I mean maybe, I'm just not really sure and if I had to guess the answer would be no.

terribletowel39
03-15-2007, 12:56 PM
I forgot about Davis. I thought about Pittman and Vincent, but is it common for the H.C. to attend a pro day to check out potential day 2 picks? I mean maybe, I'm just not really sure and if I had to guess the answer would be no.

common, i think not but for a first yr HC, maybe. take in the fact that maybe he was not interested in anybody else that was having pro days yesterday. i don't know maybe he was looking at bowe and davis and vincent was an added bonus. :D who knows?? me and the offseason have a love/hate relationship. i love it but it frustrates the hell out of me.

Mr. Stiller
03-16-2007, 02:25 PM
Mr. Stiller

Simply put, you are full of it. Not only D1 star, he'd be the No 1 pick in the draft.

You caught me... ? He did get D1 offers. He can't walk now. What does it matter? His Jr. year he did that and blew his leg out. Now, if you think just because he was big and ran fast, he's obviously going to be a D1 monster.

For every Calvin Johnson there is a kid with all the tools and didn't get the chance or didn't make it.

Mr. Stiller
03-16-2007, 02:26 PM
I forgot about Davis. I thought about Pittman and Vincent, but is it common for the H.C. to attend a pro day to check out potential day 2 picks? I mean maybe, I'm just not really sure and if I had to guess the answer would be no.

Well, you could look at it this way.

The day before he was at Arkansas... then hit LSU.. He probably looked at Bowe, Davis, Vincent and Pittman.

terribletowel39
03-16-2007, 03:21 PM
Well, you could look at it this way.

The day before he was at Arkansas... then hit LSU.. He probably looked at Bowe, Davis, Vincent and Pittman.

i can only hope.

skarocksoi
03-16-2007, 04:30 PM
Bowe is the only reciever I'd want us to take in the 1st. Any other reciever I think we either have already or could find a similar guy later on in the draft. I personally would like a defensive guy, but thats because I love defense. I think for our first round pick we could go after an OT, a WR, an OLB/DE, or a D lineman. I think if we do go defense, it has to be someone who is versatile and could switch between the 4-3 and the 3-4.

Mr. Stiller
03-16-2007, 04:43 PM
Bowe is the only reciever I'd want us to take in the 1st. Any other reciever I think we either have already or could find a similar guy later on in the draft. I personally would like a defensive guy, but thats because I love defense. I think for our first round pick we could go after an OT, a WR, an OLB/DE, or a D lineman. I think if we do go defense, it has to be someone who is versatile and could switch between the 4-3 and the 3-4.

Frankly, looking at the draft htere's only 1 guy I want Day 1 for defense.

a 3-4 DE... anyone other than that will likely rarely play. Which would make me want to focus on offense, as they'll have more of an impact.

DeathbyStat
03-16-2007, 04:48 PM
Bowe does drop alot of easy passes.

terribletowel39
03-16-2007, 05:36 PM
Bowe does drop alot of easy passes.

i don't understand why people say that. i have watched many a game of LSU's the past couple of years and yes he had a small case of the dropsies the last couple of years but this past yr, i noticed a difference, not going to say dramatic difference, because there wasn't really a big problem to begin with. LSU pro day, he had JR throw to him, davis and vincent and i don't think of catchable balls that he missed one. and he threw 75, which means prolly 20-30 balls were thrown at him. i don't know maybe i am biased but i don't think he drops passes.

Mr. Stiller
03-16-2007, 05:58 PM
i don't understand why people say that. i have watched many a game of LSU's the past couple of years and yes he had a small case of the dropsies the last couple of years but this past yr, i noticed a difference, not going to say dramatic difference, because there wasn't really a big problem to begin with. LSU pro day, he had JR throw to him, davis and vincent and i don't think of catchable balls that he missed one. and he threw 75, which means prolly 20-30 balls were thrown at him. i don't know maybe i am biased but i don't think he drops passes.

Positives: Has a well-built physique with long arms, large hands, good bubble and thick chest muscles...Has a frame that can carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk with no drop-off in speed...Physical player who uses his long arms and power to defeat the jam and get into his route progression...Best when working underneath in attempts to gain separation...Long strider who runs crisp routes and does a good job of shifting his weight in and out of his cuts...Too strong for defensive backs to attempt to reroute...Knows how to find the seams and keeping his feet in bounds working along the sidelines...More of a tackle-breaker than a receiver who can elude in the open, but it is very rare to see him get neutralized in one-on-one situations...Not afraid to go over the middle and compete for the ball in traffic...Has large, natural hands and knows how to extend and pluck away from his frame...Shows very good timing getting to the ball and is alert enough to locate the zone's soft areas...There is no flinch to him in attempts to extend and get vertical for the ball when working underneath...Even with his long stride, he has enough acceleration (needs to build to top speed though) to get under the deep throws...Has the body control and balance to go up for the ball in a crowd, but is more effective in the short-to-intermediate areas than when going deep...Has the lower body power to break tackles...Aggressive up field blocker who attacks and neutralizes second level defenders consistently.

Negatives: Has good timed speed, but because of his long stride he needs room to build acceleration...Lacks the suddenness to explode off the line, but gets to the receiving point once he gets into gear...Shows the ability to drop his weight, but will struggle a bit to get to the low throws...Has to rely on his power and forward body lean to gain separation rather than elude...Has natural hands, but looks to run with the ball before securing it, leading to costly drops or the ball bouncing off his frame for an interception...Better on short-to-intermediate routes, as he needs too much time in attempts to gobble up the cushion and separate on deep routes...Needs to improve his ability to look the long ball in over his outside shoulder (will get turned around some and lose sight of the ball).

Compares To: Arnaz Battle-San Francisco-Like Battle, Bowe doesn't explode off the line of scrimmage, but he uses his strength to avoid the jam and get into his route progression.

Mr. Stiller
03-16-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm basing this on a trade down because I feel this gives us the best opportunity of value vs. Need.
We trade down with Kansas City. They got their Franchise back, but feel they need a WR/CB and will decide when they get #15. They trade us their first, their 2nd, and a 4th.


1) Joe Staley, OT/OG, Central Michigan

The first thing you notice on film is Staley's ability to explode off the snap...Has excellent initial quickness, showing a strong base with the suddenness to get his hands into the defender in an instant...Has a tall, angular frame with developing muscles, long arms, large hands and minimal body fat (11.4 percent)...Possesses wide hips, thick thighs and a frame that can carry at least another 25 pounds with no loss in quickness...Has excellent athletic agility for this position...Still possesses the loose hip, lower body flexibility and valid quickness of a tight end, coming off the snap with very good explosion...Quick to get out on the edge and shows very fluid knee and ankle bend when changing direction...Adds a good blend of strength, especially in his hand jolt...Moves well in the open, doing a nice job of locating and neutralizing linebackers...Shows outstanding acceleration on pulls and traps, running with short pitter-patter steps with the plant-and-drive agility to redirect...Smart enough to call blocking assignments...Makes quick adjustments on the move and will have no problems dealing with the mental aspect of the game...Plays with a high motor, knowing that his athletic ability will let him beat even the speedier pass rushers along the edge... Very light on his feet for a player of his size, showing quick reactions to combat any defensive movement...Does a solid job executing reach blocks and maintaining position when working in-line...Could use more bulk to clear out and maintain the rush lanes, but shows quick feet in his kick slide...Can fire off the ball on run blocks, showing very good hip roll in this area...Quick to get his hands into the defender to lock on and control...Has good forward body lean to maintain the rush lane and can move the pile when he uses his legs to drive hard and gain leverage...With added bulk, he could be exceptional as a drive blocker...Worked mostly from the spread and shotgun offense, but with his foot speed he was very effective at sliding out to neutralize the edge rushers...Could use more bulk to anchor, but he has the feet, balance and body control to ride his man out of the play...Fluid with his shuffle/slide and stays square and balanced attacking the defender...Has the flexibility and reach to adjust to second-level defenders...Will smother linebackers and move on to another target when he plays at a good pad level...Has the foot quickness to make the reach blocks and is fluid in his kick slide...Loops well and is quick to change direction, reacting quickly moving side to side... Shows good vision to combat twists and has the balance to recover when caught out of position.

Compares To: ROSS VERBA-Detroit...Staley's foot speed can rival that of Oakland's Robert Gallery, but he plays with much better aggression. Like Verba, Staley shows great fire and aggressiveness in his play. He has the vision and alertness to pick up stunts and the foot speed to easily neutralize edge rushers. Like Verba, Staley needs to add more bulk to play left tackle at the next level, but his strength and speed are great assets that will make him ideal protecting the quarterback's blind side.

2a) Brian Leonard, RB/FB, Rutgers

Solidly built with above-average strength, thick thighs and calves, good bubble, tight waist, broad shoulders and good arm-muscle definition...Has excellent speed for his position, showing the upper-body strength and leg drive to create and maintain a rush lane as a lead blocker...Has a good short area burst through the creases and the change-of-direction agility to make the initial tackler miss...Shows the plant-and-drive agility to make precise cuts...Has very good balance and body control throughout his stride, demonstrating fluid flexibility and quickness getting to top acceleration...Has good vision to locate and neutralize the blitz and an excellent feel for the soft spots in the zone, consistently getting there, to make the underneath catch...Comes out of his stance quickly and with good urgency, running at the proper pad level with legs churning to push the pile...Has the quickness to explode through the holes and the cutback agility to make the initial tackler miss...Generates the speed to pull away from linebackers and safeties after the catch and is quick enough in his stride to be a valid deep threat...Has the loose hips to elude and makes sharp cuts to separate in his patterns...Displays good field vision, showing patience setting up his blocks when carrying the ball...Alert to stunts and blitzes, showing good slide to neutralize edge rushers...Has the strong base and balance to bounce off of tacklers and maintain his stride...Bruising runner between the tackles with the loose hips to change direction quickly...Picks up his feet nicely to get through traffic and is nimble enough to redirect and cut back outside when the inside hole is clogged...With his sharp cutting agility and burst, Leonard has had good success separating after the catch...Holds the ball secure to his chest when running inside and in the outside hand when turning the corner...Shows very good hands on toss plays and, even when he gets erect in his stance, he is conscious of protecting the ball...Has the speed to separate after the catch and the power to obliterate the smaller defender that tries to get in his path...Is especially effective on swing and middle screens, flat and wheel routes...Has good hip snap maintaining blocking position to protect the pocket and shows urgency facing up...Good cut blocker who shows alertness picking up the blitz.

Compares To: JUSTIN GRIFFITH, Atlanta Falcons (Mississippi State)...Leonard is not the physically imposing blocker Tampa Bay's Mike Alstott is but, like Griffith, he generates excellent quickness out of his stance, precise cutback agility and natural hands to be a legitimate receiving threat. He made strides as a lead blocker, but might be best utilized as a halfback in a one-back offense.

2b) Ikaika Alama-Francis, DE, Hawaii

Has a thick build with broad shoulders, big bubble, thick thighs and calves and a frame that can carry at least another 15 pounds of bulk with no loss in quickness...Has excellent speed for a player his size...Shows the lateral movement to close when working down the line...Physical collision-type tackler who might lack good overall hand usage, but can shock and jolt blockers with his punch...Has that explosive initial burst to surprise a lethargic offensive tackle when coming off the edge...Disruptive in backfield pursuit, as he plays until the whistle...Times his leaps well and has the long arm reach to knock down a fair share of passes at the line of scrimmage...Hustles in pursuit and is a good practice player with a desire to learn...Has the quick feet, good balance and smooth change of direction agility to make plays along the perimeter...His urgency getting to the quarterback shows on film, as you can see him leap over blockers and use his forward body lean, bulk and strength to press the pocket...Pursues the plays with good ease-of-movement and maintains his quickness on the move...Has the functional instincts needed to find the ball in a crowd...Plays at a high pad level at times, but has the strength to hold ground at the point of attack...When he keeps his pads down, he shows proper knee bend in his change of direction to string out running plays...Shows above average quickness off the edge and has developed a feel for knowing when he can out-finesse the slower blockers with his outside swim move...Uses his arms well to get a good inside push and has started to collect an array of counter moves to the inside...Shows quickness in his spin move and is developing a good feel for working on an offensive guard's edge when shooting the inside gaps...Still needs to wrap better, but is a decent collision-type tackler who extends his arms to grab and drag down the ball carrier, showing strength and quickness when closing...Will run down balls from the backside and gives a consistent effort while playing with a high motor...Unlike most big men, he is perfectly capable of redirecting to zero in on a mobile quarterback...Shows a good burst in pursuit and showed good improvement in 2006 anchoring and holding ground vs. the double team (needs to be more active with his hands to split them, though).

Compares To: TY WARREN-New England...Alama-Francis has a developing body that might grow into a defensive tackle at the next level. Like Warren, he has the upper body strength to stack and control vs. the inside running game and shows a good burst coming off the edge. With his size and speed, utilizing him like Warren in a 3-4 alignment might be the best fit for this emerging talent. A torn pectoral muscle in the 2007 Hula Bowl will possibly hurt his draft stock, though.

3) Craig Davis, WR, LSU

Added needed upper body muscle tone during the 2006 off-season...Is a very quick open-field runner who gets under the ball instantly, making good body adjustments to be in position to make the catch...Aggressive blocker who does a nice job of locating and stalking second level defenders...Plays with good lower body strength and explosion to break tackles and separate...Uses his arms well to get a clean release off the line and has the lateral agility to slip past and avoid the jam...Utilizes an effective swim move in his release and a stutter-step to shake off the cornerback...Explodes coming out of his breaks and knows how to use his burst to ride up on a defensive back in attempts to gobble up the cushion...Knows how to set the defender up with his head fakes and change of direction agility...Does a good job of making body adjustments when working in the red zone...Uses his size well to shield defenders from the ball...Very effective at getting low for the underneath throws and has the ability to pluck the ball away from his frame...Can easily separate from a lethargic cornerback when running into the deep secondary to get under the ball...His leg drives lets him consistently break tackles and he has the loose hips and juking moves to make the initial tackler miss...Once he finds the crease, he can gain valid yardage with the ball...Effective position blocker with the ability to sustain, rather than just get in the way and pester.

Compares To: Robert Ferguson-Green Bay-Like Ferguson, when Davis' head is in the game, big things can happen. He just needs to run consistent routes and needs to be more alert when his quarterback is flushed out of the pocket, as it is rare to see him come back for the ball. He also must show better courage going for the ball in a crowd.

4a) Tim Shaw, OLB/ILB, Penn State

Has a compact, solid frame with good upper body development, broad shoulders, thick chest, good bubble, tapered thighs and thick hamstrings...Shows good straight-line quickness and the arm extension to shed blocks...Has excellent straight-line speed, showing suddenness in his initial move off the ball and gets to top speed quickly effective short area pass defender because of his foot speed to stay with most receivers through their routes...Not the type who will take poor angles in pursuit, showing the closing burst needed to neutralize the cutback lanes...Has lined up at middle linebacker, right outside linebacker and left defensive end and never complained about the moves, putting team success above personal accolades...Attacks the ball with good urgency due to his ability to quickly break down plays in front of him...Very quick coming off the snap, staying low in his pads while generating quick lateral movements to string the plays wide...Has the natural ability to anticipate the flow of the ball...Shows the hand strength to shed blocks quickly, doing a nice job of extending to keep blockers from attacking his body, but needs to do this with more consistency...Stays at a proper pad level to extend, wrap and secure as a tackler and consistently keeps his legs moving on contact, doing a nice job of driving the ball carrier back ...Shows explosive acceleration when closing and has a natural flow in his backpedal...Has good strength to jolt and redirect tight ends in pass routes and plays bigger than his size indicates, demonstrating good physicality in his game...Demonstrates that ease of movement getting to the ball when working in space and the leg drive and strength to get the ball carrier on the ground instantly...Does a good job of coming downhill, using his hands to shed when working near the line of scrimmage, which allows him to fill the rush lane...Plays with good leverage taking on blocks coming off the edge...Has the speed and burst to head off ball carriers along the corners...His acceleration and power lets him get a strong push off the blocker...Needs to stay active with his hands to prevent getting absorbed working inside, but he gives good effort as a blitzer, especially when attacking from the back side, making him a better fit for inside linebacker.

4b) Sabby Piscatelli, SS, Oregon State

Has a defined, angular frame with the growth potential to add more bulk without any decrease in his impressive quickness...Possesses a V-shaped torso with a well-defined upper body, good bubble, developed calves and good chest thickness...Has the loose hips and sudden burst to close on the ball in a hurry and shows good body control in transition...Shows the nimble feet and excellent hand/eye coordination, along with the leaping ability to get fine elevation going up to get to the pass at its high point...Smart and instinctive enough to make the calls and handle the assignments in the secondary...Needs only minimal reps to retain and does a good job of taking the plays from the chalkboard to the playing field...His quickness and ability to take proper angles allows him to close on the ball and string plays wide in run support...Has the vision to make plays with his back to the ball, doing a nice job of looking the pass in over his shoulders...Displays quick feet to match up with almost any opponent and looks very natural turning and running to the ball...His speed allows him to cut off routes and stays in proper position by keeping his eyes on his assignment ...Has excellent quickness and body control to keep tight on the receiver's hip...Keeps his feet under him and his body in control throughout transition breaks and has a low, smooth pedal...When Piscitelli stays low in his pads, he is quick to get into position to make the play...Has a good grasp of taking angles to close and explosive acceleration coming out of his breaks...Will frustrate a quarterback with the way he can anticipate the throw and his plant-and-drive agility is exceptional, as it lets him get a fine jump on the ball...Is so quick in transition that he doesn't even need to accelerate much to stay tight with the receiver on deep routes...For a player of his size, it is very impressive the way he can keep the plays in front of him, but it is mostly due to his quickness while maintaining body control...Is the type who knows how to ride up the receiver and use his arms to either deflect or catch the ball in flight...With his foot speed, size and playing strength, he can match up with the split ends and flankers on deep routes or out-muscle tight ends and backs going for the ball underneath...Has the hip swerve to adjust to the ball on the move and does a nice job of getting into position to make the play...With his strength, he is effective at interrupting the route's progression...Shows a good feel for the cutback lanes and has no problems taking down the runner once he locks on to the opponent.

Compares To: ADAM ARCHULETA-Washington...Piscitelli is faster and has much better range than Archuleta, but both do an excellent job of keeping plays in front of them. Piscitelli has natural hands for the interception and can play either safety position. With his effectiveness vs. the run, he could also see action as a linebacker in a Cover-2 scheme.

4comp1) Brian Robinson, DE/OLB, Texas

Has adequate upper body muscle tone, but displays a thick lower torso, with strong, well-developed thighs and calves and has room on his frame to add at least another 10 pounds of bulk without it affecting his quickness...Has good knee bend and flexibility working down the line...Is a quick study with the playbook and has a good feel for blocking schemes...Active with his hands, getting them up quickly coming out of his stance to get into the blocker's chest...Plays with awareness and has no problems locating the ball in a crowd, despite his lack of ideal height...Lacks explosion coming off the ball, but will attack with a consistent tempo...Has good bend and sinks his pads well in attempt to avoid blocks working through trash...Effective at holding his ground vs. double teams due to his lower body power and strong anchor...When he keeps his hands active, he is effective at controlling blockers with good lock-out and extension...Struggles some to disengage, but when he does, he has adequate lateral quickness to make plays on the move...Closes from the backside with good urgency and has the sustained speed to take a long route to the ball (just lacks suddenness)...Gets better success when he slants or takes angles, but when he faces up to the blocker head-on, he is ineffective at getting a push to rock the linemen back on their heels...Shows good hand strength when he wraps and secures the ball carrier...Compensates for a lack of blazing speed by reading the play quickly to get into proper position to make the tackle (good at neutralizing the cutback lanes)...Has good swim and rip moves coming off the edge on the pass rush and uses his hands well to sidestep low blocks, keeping his balance when playing in space...Has great timing on his leaps and excels as a kick blocker on special teams...With his linebacker experience dropping back into pass coverage, he could provide value standing up in a 3-4 alignment...Might not win all of his battles, but he has a hard charge chasing from the back-side, displaying proper body lean off the corner...Adequate at flushing the quarterback out of the pocket and showed improvement in 2006 using his hands to control and adjust off blocks.

Compares To: BRYCE FISHER-Seattle...Robison is a blue-collar type who lacks quick-twitch moves coming off the snap, is a bit undersized and needs to improve his upper body strength. Despite his size issues, he finds ways to get to the ball and has the lower body strength to hold his position at the point of attack. He excels as a kick blocker and plays with good discipline, as he always seems to be in position to make the play. While he might not be starting material, he has enough assets to contribute in a line rotation.

4comp2) Yamon Figurs, WR, Kansas State

Skilled receiver with 4.29 speed in the 40... Considered to be one of the Big 12’s top deep threats... Is also a dangerous kickoff return man... Has been among K-State’s top receivers each of the past two seasons.

5) Ryan McBean, DT/DE, Oklahoma State

Compactly built with good lower body thickness in his thighs and calves...Has adequate chest development and smooth upper body muscle tone, but also has room on his frame to carry at least another 10 pounds of bulk...Not a quick-twitch type with cat-like moves, but shows good play recognition ability and is alert to blocking schemes, knowing when to slant or angle in attempts to avoid and make plays in the backfield...Has the ability to gain advantage coming off the snap when he keeps his hands active in attempts to disengage...Shows adequate knee bend and flexibility to redirect and work down the line...Runs with a normal stride...Plays with a competitive, aggressive nature and is a vocal type who will incite his teammates in the huddle...Has embraced major college training programs, but because he lacked structure in this area in junior college, he is still a work in progress in attempts to improve his overall strength...Does a good job of locating running plays while in motion, showing the functional hip snap to redirect and neutralize the rush lanes...When he uses his arms to prevent getting tied up on blocks, he is effective at pushing the lead blocker back into the rush lane...Does a good job of shooting his hands to punch, lock out and control vs. single blocks...Has improved his pad level, keeping it low to gain leverage and hold the point of attack...Keeps his motor running flowing to the ball in space and while he lacks wrap-up technique, he has enough strength in his hands to grab and drag down ball carriers...Has enough power to pop and shock on contact, but needs to do it with more consistency...Plays on his feet when flowing to the ball, showing good balance and base...Good gap run stuffer with the change of direction ability to string plays wide and make tackles on the outside...Has learned the art of extending his hands when trying to avoid low blocks...Has enough lateral agility to beat blockers to the inside gap...Pursues hard and takes proper angles to the ball carrier...Could shift outside in a 4-3 alignment, as he has the knee bend and balance to stay on his feet moving through traffic (move inside will also cover up his size issues that make him struggle trying to split double teams)...Has good counter move agility, keeping his hands active and inside his frame in attempts to separate from single blocks...Keeps his head up and anticipates the snap count well to compensate for a lack of suddenness coming out of his stance...Good at executing stunts and is effective at executing rip and swim moves to get him a free lane to the pocket.

RAHEEM BROCK-Indianapolis...Because of a lack of size, bulk and upper body strength, McBean might have better success in a 3-4 alignment as a defensive end. Like Brock, he is not the most athletically gifted defender around, but he shows good vision locating the ball and plays with a steady motor. Put him into certain situations where he faces single blocks instead of double teams and he could be a valuable reserve in the front wall rotation.

6) Keith Jackson, NT, Arkansas

Short plugger whose forte is clogging running lanes. Good initial quickness off the snap. Reads the action well and puts himself in good position to make the play. Has the strength to hold up in a two-gap scheme, but isn't satisfied with just taking up blockers. Good lateral quickness and pursuit. Improved pass rush technique as a senior.

7) Daniel Coats, TE, BYU

Has adequate upper body muscle development...Runs with a normal stride and builds to top speed nicely...Shows good acceleration into short-area routes and good hand/eye coordination to look the ball in...Studies tapes and has good field awareness, locating the soft spots on the field...Plays with good aggression and uses his size well to compete for the ball in a crowd...Has very good arm length, large hands and excellent leaping ability to reach over and around the defender to extend and pluck the ball outside his frame...Vocal leader with a team-first attitude and takes well to hard coaching...Takes pride in his work habits...Has good initial quickness to get into his routes...Compensates for a lack of speed with a strong power-through move with his hands to get a clean release against the press...Shows decent ball adjustment skills to uncover and is alert to work back to the ball when the quarterback is pressured...Good hands catcher, but will bobble a few when he lets the ball into his body...Shows no hesitation and has good concentration competing for the contested ball...Has the balance to turn and run with the ball after the catch...More of a position/wall-off type of blocker who flashes decent aggression to mirror in pass protection.

Compares To: STEPHEN ALEXANDER-Denver...Like Alexander, Coats is a good short-area receiver, but lacks the burst to be a threat into the second level. He shows adequate pass blocking skills, but is inconsistent with generating movement off the snap and needs to work on finishing better. He has the long arms, large hands and leaping ability to compete for the jump ball, making him a nice underneath target.


UDFA:

Adam Graessle, P, Pittsburgh

Rare size for the position and good leg strength. Averaged 42 yards over his junior and senior seasons. Also handled the kickoff duties, in which over a third were touchbacks (23 of 66) as a senior. Shows touch, with 21 punts downed inside the 20-yard line and 11 fair caught with only one touchback as a senior. Improved release time as a senior, not having a single punt blocked.

skarocksoi
03-17-2007, 11:27 AM
I like that mock. I think KC would be willing to trade up to grab Levi Brown to fix that O-line. I think Kyle Turley is their LT and he is just not suited to play that position. Plus, Larry Johnson's dad, Larry Johnson, is the Dline coach at Penn State, so they sortof have some insider info on PSU guys. I think thats what led them to pick up Tamba last year, and could lead them to try and leapfrog the Giants and trade with us to pick him up. At least I hope.

Also, what if we were to take Staley in the first and trade our new second and third to move up in the second round and take Spencer? That would be some pretty swift draft manuevering and leave us with 3 high picks in the first 2 rounds.

Mr. Stiller
03-17-2007, 12:14 PM
I like that mock. I think KC would be willing to trade up to grab Levi Brown to fix that O-line. I think Kyle Turley is their LT and he is just not suited to play that position. Plus, Larry Johnson's dad, Larry Johnson, is the Dline coach at Penn State, so they sortof have some insider info on PSU guys. I think thats what led them to pick up Tamba last year, and could lead them to try and leapfrog the Giants and trade with us to pick him up. At least I hope.

Also, what if we were to take Staley in the first and trade our new second and third to move up in the second round and take Spencer? That would be some pretty swift draft manuevering and leave us with 3 high picks in the first 2 rounds.

It could, and it's where Spencers Value is. But, Thats where Tim Shaw and Brian Robison come in.

Robison I have a feeling is going to be awesome.

Our defense always sits a year, ST players. I think Shaw and Francis will get the most reps (Francis because he'll start at RDE). Shaw because he's so Versatile and very intelligent.



Shaw Will be like Bart Scott. He's played inside, outside, 4-3, 3-4. He'll be the 3-4 ILB to 4-3 OLB. Once Farrior Retires, Foote or another rookie (Jasper Brinkley?) Will take his place Shaw will come in next to Keisel.

Robison has a unique blend of size and strength. He'll play behind Keisel and play ST.

Our Rookies on defense don't see much field time their first season. So we let him learn. Thats why the only guy on defense I took Day 1 was Francis. Because he'll be a starter.

We got a Running Back, Future LT, and WR that could all come into camp and show reason to get PT.

Spencer would come into camp and either get slammed behind Keisel or Haggans. Frankly I think Spencer, Moss, and Woodley are limited to 4-3 Ends. Hence not taking one earlier.

TerribleEd
03-17-2007, 02:30 PM
Rd 1) Alan Branch, DT, Michigan

I think he could wind up falling all the way to #15. He had a disappointing workout at Michigan's pro day, appearing out-of-shape. He'd make a good end in the 3-4 and an even better tackle in the 4-3.


Rd 2) Josh Wilson, CB, Maryland

The Steelers seem to want to add a CB in this draft, and I think he's the exact style of CB that Tomlin wants.

Rd 3) Brian Robison, DE/OLB, Texas

He looks like he could be a pass rusher in either the 3-4 or 4-3 which is what the Steelers want.

Rd 4) Tim Shaw, LB, Penn State

His speed makes him an ideal fit as a cover-2 OLB.

Rd 4 comp) Kolby Smith, RB, Louisville

Nice upside.

mikehop05
03-17-2007, 03:09 PM
Rd 1) Alan Branch, DT, Michigan

I think he could wind up falling all the way to #15. He had a disappointing workout at Michigan's pro day, appearing out-of-shape. He'd make a good end in the 3-4 and an even better tackle in the 4-3.


Rd 2) Josh Wilson, CB, Maryland

The Steelers seem to want to add a CB in this draft, and I think he's the exact style of CB that Tomlin wants.

Rd 3) Brian Robison, DE/OLB, Texas

He looks like he could be a pass rusher in either the 3-4 or 4-3 which is what the Steelers want.

Rd 4) Tim Shaw, LB, Penn State

His speed makes him an ideal fit as a cover-2 OLB.

Rd 4 comp) Kolby Smith, RB, Louisville

Nice upside.

i wouldnt complain one bit if it ended up this way

steelernation77
03-17-2007, 05:09 PM
i wouldnt complain one bit if it ended up this way

I would. I'm not a big fan of taking Branch in the first.

neko4
03-18-2007, 03:50 AM
Hey steeler fans new "fantasy offseason-type" game starting up
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4174

mikehop05
03-18-2007, 12:09 PM
I would. I'm not a big fan of taking Branch in the first.

...why????

Mr. Stiller
03-18-2007, 03:19 PM
...why????

BRanch looked out of shape and some people are questioning his work ethic.

mikehop05
03-18-2007, 04:37 PM
BRanch looked out of shape and some people are questioning his work ethic.

yeah i read the article about how he didnt do well in 1on1's with that coach and his hand slapping tecnique

also that he looked a little winded after his workout...

but fact of the matter is the guys a tank and he'd be a great value pick to us at 15

you cannot take away everything right hes done this season after one workout

skarocksoi
03-18-2007, 09:18 PM
I was looking on foxsports and they had a new mock up. It looked pretty average until I got to our pick and they had us taking Paul Pozluszny. Pretty interesting I thought. How about everyone else? There reasoning was his Steeler blue collar mentality would appeal to us. They also said he would replace Porter, which is a load of bull, but if we play a 4-3 at any point he could play OLB and I think he could play inside in a 3-4.

mikehop05
03-18-2007, 09:56 PM
I was looking on foxsports and they had a new mock up. It looked pretty average until I got to our pick and they had us taking Paul Pozluszny. Pretty interesting I thought. How about everyone else? There reasoning was his Steeler blue collar mentality would appeal to us. They also said he would replace Porter, which is a load of bull, but if we play a 4-3 at any point he could play OLB and I think he could play inside in a 3-4.

yeah i wouldnt mind that pick, what i really like about puz is that he will give you 100% on every play

his upside may not be as high as someone like timmons or moss, but we know exactly what we are getting from him... a solid guy 3 down guy who isnt great at rushing the passer, but can drop into coverage and can deinfetly hit

PittPete
03-19-2007, 10:09 AM
I really like both Psu linebackers; Puz and Shaw. PuZ was the best lb in the country in 2005 until his injury, struggled at the beginning of last year then got better as the year went on. Forget all the combine **** for a second focus on the fact that this guy is a pure football player. shaw would probably need a year or two to acclimate to the NFL but has some good upside. I can't believe that Branch would ever slip to us at 15, am even more confounded that some of you girlies would pass on him. He is a true stud. I watched a lot of Michigan games this year; as the announcers gleefully promoted Woodley, I watched Branch dismantle doubleteams and would take him over any lineman in the draft.

Mr. Stiller
03-20-2007, 03:57 AM
I was looking on foxsports and they had a new mock up. It looked pretty average until I got to our pick and they had us taking Paul Pozluszny. Pretty interesting I thought. How about everyone else? There reasoning was his Steeler blue collar mentality would appeal to us. They also said he would replace Porter, which is a load of bull, but if we play a 4-3 at any point he could play OLB and I think he could play inside in a 3-4.

Frankly,

I'd rather Shaw. He, like Poz, can play OLB/ILB in both schemes. However, he's a better pass rusher, and I think he could be a monster. Do the Bart Scott, ILB in 3-4, OLB in 4-3.

TheGunShow
03-28-2007, 04:25 PM
RD1- Amobi Okoye DT Louisville

Young Pass Rusher that only has upside at age 19. Also will be a nice Tampa 2 DT. But will work in nicely this year as a pass rush specialist on nickel and dime situations.

RD2- Brian Robison OLB/DE Texas

Can play OLB in the 3-4 and can play DE in the 4-3. Has great physical ability and has a knack for making plays in the backfield.

RD3- James Marten OT Boston College

Has better athletcism than people thought. Big with long arms and room to get bigger. Is very fluid and fast and gets the job done with a nasty streak.

RD4- Zak DeOssie ILB Brown

Has great physical ability and dominated the Ivy League. Might need a season or two to develop but has everything you look for. Size, Speed, Hips, Agility, leaping ability, and all the brains in the world! Also is a long snapper. Imagine a 6-4 255lbs 4.53 forty LB coming at you returning a punt.

RD4- Stephen Nicholas OLB South Florida

Just an animal. Plays with a fierce intensity and has a non-stop motor. Lays the wood. Probably better suited for the 4-3 but he reminds me of Gregg Lloyd in size and ability. And both were undersized.

RD5- Doug Datish OL Ohio St.

Has played OT, OG, and OC. Instant depth and a little insurance incase Faneca leaves next season.

RD5- John Talley CB Duke

One of the most productive CB's in this draft if not the most. He is a perfect Tampa 2 starter or a great nickel or dime back. Has glue for hands. Understands the game. Just a playmaker.

RD6- Clifton Dawson RB Harvard

I love Ivy Leaguer! Like DeOssie was very productive in College four straight 1,000 yard season at five yards a crack, 60 rushing TD's 80 career catches and never fumbled the rock. A perfect third down back that is very similar to Willie Parker in style of play.

RD7- Paul Thompson WR/QB Oklahoma

Will give the new OC something to play with. And with Wilson and his 2.5 million dollar base salary nice competition for him and the soon to be FA Nate Washington.

terribletowel39
03-28-2007, 05:30 PM
RD1- Amobi Okoye DT Louisville

Young Pass Rusher that only has upside at age 19. Also will be a nice Tampa 2 DT. But will work in nicely this year as a pass rush specialist on nickel and dime situations.

RD2- Brian Robison OLB/DE Texas

Can play OLB in the 3-4 and can play DE in the 4-3. Has great physical ability and has a knack for making plays in the backfield.

RD3- James Marten OT Boston College

Has better athletcism than people thought. Big with long arms and room to get bigger. Is very fluid and fast and gets the job done with a nasty streak.

RD4- Zak DeOssie ILB Brown

Has great physical ability and dominated the Ivy League. Might need a season or two to develop but has everything you look for. Size, Speed, Hips, Agility, leaping ability, and all the brains in the world! Also is a long snapper. Imagine a 6-4 255lbs 4.53 forty LB coming at you returning a punt.

RD4- Stephen Nicholas OLB South Florida

Just an animal. Plays with a fierce intensity and has a non-stop motor. Lays the wood. Probably better suited for the 4-3 but he reminds me of Gregg Lloyd in size and ability. And both were undersized.

RD5- Doug Datish OL Ohio St.

Has played OT, OG, and OC. Instant depth and a little insurance incase Faneca leaves next season.

RD5- John Talley CB Duke

One of the most productive CB's in this draft if not the most. He is a perfect Tampa 2 starter or a great nickel or dime back. Has glue for hands. Understands the game. Just a playmaker.

RD6- Clifton Dawson RB Harvard

I love Ivy Leaguer! Like DeOssie was very productive in College four straight 1,000 yard season at five yards a crack, 60 rushing TD's 80 career catches and never fumbled the rock. A perfect third down back that is very similar to Willie Parker in style of play.

RD7- Paul Thompson WR/QB Oklahoma

Will give the new OC something to play with. And with Wilson and his 2.5 million dollar base salary nice competition for him and the soon to be FA Nate Washington.

i like a lot of things about the draft. i think we need to try and pull a WR in day 1 though. paul thompson won't be anything in the NFL. the days of The Slash type players are over.

don't know much about the harvard kid. granted they don't play anybody, it sounds like he was a man among boys playing at harvard.

i don't think you mean this but the way i read it, does DeOssie return punts?? i don't know much about the guy, him going to Brown.

all in all not a bad mock, i wouldn't be dissappointed but could always be better. nice job,

internettoughguy :D

mikehop05
03-28-2007, 06:20 PM
i like that mock a lot, id rather have shaw then robinson but thats mainly just preference, i really like picks 1 3 4 5

TheGunShow
03-28-2007, 06:31 PM
i like a lot of things about the draft. i think we need to try and pull a WR in day 1 though. paul thompson won't be anything in the NFL. the days of The Slash type players are over.

don't know much about the harvard kid. granted they don't play anybody, it sounds like he was a man among boys playing at harvard.

i don't think you mean this but the way i read it, does DeOssie return punts?? i don't know much about the guy, him going to Brown.

all in all not a bad mock, i wouldn't be dissappointed but could always be better. nice job,

internettoughguy :D

Thompson also looked awesome in the Hula Bowl. If you get a copy of it watch him. He makes nice catches and uses his hands. Shows some hops. Uses his QB knowledge to find the holes in the zones. And made acouple of really key blocks. He also gives some size 6-4 215lbs. He only runs in the mid 4.65 range. But is a long strider and has the agility of a 5-9 175lbs WR. He had a 4.11 short shuttle compared to Chris Houston and his 4.12. Pretty good for such a big man. Also had a 6.81 three cone drill. Houston had a 6.94. And Thompson also had a 35 inch vert. That's at the combine. Pretty good numbers. Most would stand on them. Not him, he did all the drills AGAIN at his pro day and put up basically the same numbers.

This gives Reid a chance to show what he can do and if Reid does work out well we only used a 7th round pick. If he doesn't and Thompson doesn't we can use a early pick next year on WR.

Yeah, his numbers were also impressive. Mid 4.5 forty speed, with 4.16 short shuttle 7.09 three cone 38 inch vert and 18 reps. All very good repsectable numbers.

Yeah, I meant Zak DeOssie is a long snapper and imagine him coming at you when you are returning a punt. Usually long snapper don't give you much in punt coverage but he is an animal on special teams. And if he isn't going to start atleast he can dress and be a valuable part of the team on special teams. And would probably allow us to dump Kreidwaldt.

BigRob
03-28-2007, 08:43 PM
"Our defense always sits a year, ST players. I think Shaw and Francis will get the most reps (Francis because he'll start at RDE). Shaw because he's so Versatile and very intelligent.


Our Rookies on defense don't see much field time their first season. So we let him learn. Thats why the only guy on defense I took Day 1 was Francis. Because he'll be a starter."

You really think that Francis is going to come in and supplant Keisel at RDE? Or do you think that they are really going to start Keisel over Harrison at OLB?

Francis has played in the 3-4 in Hawaii, but its a far cry from our complicated scheme.

skarocksoi
03-28-2007, 09:01 PM
Our rookies used to sit their first year, but that could change with Tomlin at the helm.

DWilliams2IndyColts
03-29-2007, 10:45 PM
How about this
RD1: Ben Grubbs G Auburn
RD2: LaMarr Woodley DE/OLB Michigan
RD3: Tony Hunt RB Penn State(I just like this pick)
RD4: Ray McDonald DE Florida

terribletowel39
03-29-2007, 10:52 PM
How about this
RD1: Ben Grubbs G Auburn
RD2: LaMarr Woodley DE/OLB Michigan
RD3: Chris Henry RB Arizona(I just like this pick)
RD4: Ray McDonald DE Florida

i am not a fan of any of these picks. we don't need another G on our roster. woodley has been discussed in this thread, but i am not a fan. chris henry is a workout WONDER, not even workout warrior.

mikehop05
03-29-2007, 11:06 PM
i am not a fan of any of these picks. we don't need another G on our roster. woodley has been discussed in this thread, but i am not a fan. chris henry is a workout WONDER, not even workout warrior.

yeah, i agree, plus henry plays similar to parker, so it wouldnt be much of a change of pace

steel man
03-30-2007, 12:59 PM
do you guys think 4 LBer's would be too many to draft and do you think it might be a chance that we really would draft 4. if it is to many what about 3 , if that is still to many how many do you guys think we will draft

steel man
03-30-2007, 01:29 PM
also if you guys do not mind please rank these outside LBer's in order from the best to worse with the round that you think they will be drafted in.

Paul Posluszny - PSU
Jon Beason - The U
Lawrence Timmons - FSU
Justin Durant - Hampton
Rufus Alexander - OU
Tim Shaw - PSU
Prescott Burgess - Mich
Brian Smith - Missouri
Quincy Black - NM
Earl Everett - UF

steel man
03-30-2007, 01:30 PM
also if you guys do not mind please rank these inside LBer's in order from the best to worse with the round that you think they will be drafted in.

Pat Willis - Old Miss
David Harris - Mich
Anthony Waters - Clem
H.B. Blades - Pitt
Desmond Bishop - Cal
Nate Harris - UL
Brandon Siler - UF
Buster Davis - FSU

TheGunShow
03-30-2007, 03:58 PM
do you guys think 4 LBer's would be too many to draft and do you think it might be a chance that we really would draft 4. if it is to many what about 3 , if that is still to many how many do you guys think we will draft

RD1- Amobi Okoye DT Louisville

Young Pass Rusher that only has upside at age 19. Also will be a nice Tampa 2 DT. But will work in nicely this year as a pass rush specialist on nickel and dime situations.

RD2- Brian Robison OLB/DE Texas

Can play OLB in the 3-4 and can play DE in the 4-3. Has great physical ability and has a knack for making plays in the backfield.

RD3- James Marten OT Boston College

Has better athletcism than people thought. Big with long arms and room to get bigger. Is very fluid and fast and gets the job done with a nasty streak.

RD4- Zak DeOssie ILB Brown

Has great physical ability and dominated the Ivy League. Might need a season or two to develop but has everything you look for. Size, Speed, Hips, Agility, leaping ability, and all the brains in the world! Also is a long snapper. Imagine a 6-4 255lbs 4.53 forty LB coming at you returning a punt.

RD4- Stephen Nicholas OLB South Florida

Just an animal. Plays with a fierce intensity and has a non-stop motor. Lays the wood. Probably better suited for the 4-3 but he reminds me of Gregg Lloyd in size and ability. And both were undersized.

RD5- Doug Datish OL Ohio St.

Has played OT, OG, and OC. Instant depth and a little insurance incase Faneca leaves next season.

RD5- John Talley CB Duke

One of the most productive CB's in this draft if not the most. He is a perfect Tampa 2 starter or a great nickel or dime back. Has glue for hands. Understands the game. Just a playmaker.

RD6- Clifton Dawson RB Harvard

I love Ivy Leaguer! Like DeOssie was very productive in College four straight 1,000 yard season at five yards a crack, 60 rushing TD's 80 career catches and never fumbled the rock. A perfect third down back that is very similar to Willie Parker in style of play.

RD7- Paul Thompson WR/QB Oklahoma

Will give the new OC something to play with. And with Wilson and his 2.5 million dollar base salary nice competition for him and the soon to be FA Nate Washington.

Are you talking about my new mock with the newly appointed comp picks? Because I have us taking three. We need two OLB's and Robison can play DE also. And one ILB in DeOssie. With Porter gone and Haggans soon to follow we need two OLB's. And with Farrior getting older getting someone to replace him wouldn't be a bad idea. With nine picks we can basically draft every needed position with ease.

terribletowel39
03-30-2007, 04:08 PM
i think he is wanting to do a mock draft of his own and wanted to know if we thought 4 LB's would be too much. and yes it is, 4 would be too much.

mikehop05
03-31-2007, 05:48 PM
also if you guys do not mind please rank these inside LBer's in order from the best to worse with the round that you think they will be drafted in.

Pat Willis - Old Miss
David Harris - Mich
Anthony Waters - Clem
H.B. Blades - Pitt
Desmond Bishop - Cal
Nate Harris - UL
Brandon Siler - UF
Buster Davis - FSU

Pat Willis 1
David Harris 2
Buster Davis 3
Desmond Bishop 4
Anthony Waters 4
H.B. Blades 3
Nate Harris 4
Brandon Siler 4

Add Zak DeOssie in there, id put him between davis and bishop, and a round 3 / 4

steel man
04-01-2007, 01:14 AM
i think he is wanting to do a mock draft of his own and wanted to know if we thought 4 LB's would be too much. and yes it is, 4 would be too much.

yes that is what i am wanting to do, if you can tell by my sig i am outdated with the most recent ideals that common since is telling me that we might do.

steel man
04-01-2007, 01:16 AM
Pat Willis 1
David Harris 2
Buster Davis 3
Desmond Bishop 4
Anthony Waters 4
H.B. Blades 3
Nate Harris 4
Brandon Siler 4

Add Zak DeOssie in there, id put him between davis and bishop, and a round 3 / 4

that is about what i was thinking. i was not sure how low Bishop and Waters might go and how high Harris and Siler might go.....thanks for the help

steel man
04-01-2007, 01:17 AM
i have not heard anyone talk about Harris, would he be a good late round pick and will he fit both systems (3-4 & 4-3 Cover2)?

skarocksoi
04-01-2007, 10:13 AM
David Harris is probably a 2nd/3rd rounder, at least since the last I've heard about him. He did pretty well at the senior bowl and impressed people. I think he would fit a 3-4 pretty well, I'm not sure about the 4-3, as I dont know how he is in coverage.

I think a better late round pick (round 4) for both schemes would be Waters. He had an injury that kept him out his senior year, but he was very dominant his junior year. The fact that hes been out of football for a year would probably make a team wait until day 2 to draft him.

steel man
04-01-2007, 12:40 PM
David Harris is probably a 2nd/3rd rounder, at least since the last I've heard about him. He did pretty well at the senior bowl and impressed people. I think he would fit a 3-4 pretty well, I'm not sure about the 4-3, as I dont know how he is in coverage.

I think a better late round pick (round 4) for both schemes would be Waters. He had an injury that kept him out his senior year, but he was very dominant his junior year. The fact that hes been out of football for a year would probably make a team wait until day 2 to draft him.


i was talking about Nate Harris from UL, i think David Harris will be a good if not great player. as far as Waters goes you can see in my sig that i love Waters, i think he will be a stud.

skarocksoi
04-01-2007, 01:15 PM
Oops. Should have asked which one first. I got nothing on Nate Harris.

mikehop05
04-01-2007, 02:06 PM
nate harris is a decent player / athlete, he was a juco transfer so though he was a senior, he really was like a sophmore in the eyes of the coaching staff in terms of lousiville experience... which hurts his stock

to me hes a 2 down guy, a solid player but nothing special

Hines
04-01-2007, 05:20 PM
is it just me or does timmons, beason, waters, and nate harris looke MEAN and HUGE in their bio pics

man i would be happy with two of those four
would bring a mean lookin team back
and hopefully they play mean

steel man
04-04-2007, 01:01 PM
which guy would be the best for us?

Nate Ilaoa - he is the one i like most, but i worry about him staying healthy
DeShawn Wynn
Kolby Smith
Tyrone Moss

also will all of them be there in rounds 6 and 7?

terribletowel39
04-04-2007, 01:37 PM
which guy would be the best for us?

Nate Ilaoa - he is the one i like most, but i worry about him staying healthy
DeShawn Wynn
Kolby Smith
Tyrone Moss

also will all of them be there in rounds 6 and 7?

i want Nate more than any of those. Kolby Smith next then Wynn and then Moss. that would be my order but i most definetly want Nasti Nate the most.

has he had a problem with his health in the past??

steel man
04-04-2007, 01:53 PM
double post ...sorry

steel man
04-04-2007, 01:54 PM
he got granted a rare 6th year because he was hurt so much. he sat out something like 2 full years and parts of others, and if i not wrong i think it was knee problems.
go to the player ranking and Scott may have talked about it there when he done the scouting report on Nate.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/rb/nateilaoa.html

steel man
04-04-2007, 02:11 PM
i have another one for you, which WR do you like the best

Brandon Myles - WVU - 6-0' 189lbs 4.41
Legedu Naanee - Boise - 6-2 1/4' 225lbs 4.41
Laurent Robinson - Illinois St. - 6-2' 199lbs 4.38
Dallas Baker - UF - 6-3 1/8' 208lbs 4.58

I like Legedu Naanee the best for 2 reasons size and the system he came from(a passing system) proves he can catch and run routes, and his speed is only 0.03, 3 hundredths different than some of the fastest times ran this year, like Robinson above. 4.3's look good but really 4.40 and 4.39 is no different, but people think it is because of the 3 and 4.

will any of them go in the 6th or 7th Round

mikehop05
04-04-2007, 02:38 PM
i have another one for you, which WR do you like the best

Brandon Myles - WVU - 6-0' 189lbs 4.41
Legedu Naanee - Boise - 6-2 1/4' 225lbs 4.41
Laurent Robinson - Illinois St. - 6-2' 199lbs 4.38
Dallas Baker - UF - 6-3 1/8' 208lbs 4.58

I like Legedu Naanee the best for 2 reasons size and the system he came from(a passing system) proves he can catch and run routes, and his speed is only 0.03, 3 hundredths different than some of the fastest times ran this year, like Robinson above. 4.3's look good but really 4.40 and 4.39 is no different, but people think it is because of the 3 and 4.

will any of them go in the 6th or 7th Round

i think all of them will fall to the 6th/7th, naanee definetly has the size and the speed combo, but i havnt seen much of him in terms of playing wise

i always thought brandon myles was pretty talented as well

steel man
04-04-2007, 03:01 PM
I love Myles, but every time i put him down people rip me and say "we need a tall WR and he is to skinny and he played for a running team" so i thought i would ask. i do not know if you remember my old sig but i had both Myles and Ilaoa in it, but after people ripping me i wanted to see what you guys thought.

i am a WVU guy, i go to all of the home games and try to go to some of the away also, so i have saw Myles and he would be a good pick up in the late rounds.

thanks for all of the input. i will prob. have some more ques. later

steel man
04-04-2007, 03:07 PM
i just like Legedu Naanee's stats and i just have a really good feeling about him, but i also see Myles being another Chris Henry( without the trouble). i am back to the point where i do not know who i would like. perfect case would be draft one and get one as an UDFA or get both as an UDFA and use the pick we would use on one of them and get someone else.

terribletowel39
04-04-2007, 03:15 PM
i have another one for you, which WR do you like the best

Brandon Myles - WVU - 6-0' 189lbs 4.41
Legedu Naanee - Boise - 6-2 1/4' 225lbs 4.41
Laurent Robinson - Illinois St. - 6-2' 199lbs 4.38
Dallas Baker - UF - 6-3 1/8' 208lbs 4.58

I like Legedu Naanee the best for 2 reasons size and the system he came from(a passing system) proves he can catch and run routes, and his speed is only 0.03, 3 hundredths different than some of the fastest times ran this year, like Robinson above. 4.3's look good but really 4.40 and 4.39 is no different, but people think it is because of the 3 and 4.

will any of them go in the 6th or 7th Round

more than any of those and who i feel will be there is that Roy Hall guy. he had an outstanding pro day and is huge for a WR. but out of this the Naanee guy looks like a killer, big and fast, how are his hops?? while i like brandon myles, i think him and santonio are the same player and we really don't need another holmes. thats the only knock on him. for me it has nothing to do with him being in a run happy offense, a WR is a WR no matter system he is in. Ward is in a run heavy offense and he is still top 10-15 WR in the league.

mikehop05
04-04-2007, 03:31 PM
yeah roy hill is a beast

i just saw the updated msn.foxsports mock and they have us picking jamaal anderson...

which gets me as excited as a school girl

steel man
04-05-2007, 07:59 AM
i really liked Matt Trannon a lot, he was my pick. i do not know if you remember that i had talked about him before but no one gave me their opinion on him, what do you guys think about him if you know anything about him.

WR-Mich. St.- 6'6" - 216lbs - 4.54

steel man
04-10-2007, 10:50 PM
i have another one for you, which WR do you like the best

Brandon Myles - WVU - 6-0' 189lbs 4.41
Legedu Naanee - Boise - 6-2 1/4' 225lbs 4.41
Laurent Robinson - Illinois St. - 6-2' 199lbs 4.38
Dallas Baker - UF - 6-3 1/8' 208lbs 4.58

I like Legedu Naanee the best for 2 reasons size and the system he came from(a passing system) proves he can catch and run routes, and his speed is only 0.03, 3 hundredths different than some of the fastest times ran this year, like Robinson above. 4.3's look good but really 4.40 and 4.39 is no different, but people think it is because of the 3 and 4.

will any of them go in the 6th or 7th Round

if you go back and look at the date of this post and then look at the date of this write up i might have been on the right track and answer my own question.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_501349.html