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View Full Version : Darren McFadden getting a pass on criticism.


Halsey
10-28-2009, 07:21 PM
McFadden was supposed to be a better prospect than Adrian Peterson. He hasn't done anything in Oakland. Adrian Peterson would never settle for being a backup averaging 3.1ypc.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 07:24 PM
He can't stay healthy and is not complemented by a competent passing game.

fenikz
10-28-2009, 07:25 PM
...wow did you just say DMC was a better prospect that AD?


no

RaiderNation
10-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Seems like a Reggie Bush type of guy right now. Isnt good in between the tackles, but if he gets to the edge he can break it. If he can be completly healthy and have Michael Bush be our work horse, he should be able to get touches in many ways

Halsey
10-28-2009, 07:27 PM
He can't stay healthy and is not complemented by a competent passing game.

I thought about that too. He hasn't been all that productive even when healthy. When a guy is compared to Adrian Peterson it makes me ask myself how they would be doing if they swapped teams. I have a hard time believing Peterson would be a backup in Oakland. I also have a hard time envisioning McFadden as the best back in the league if he played in Minnesota.

Halsey
10-28-2009, 07:30 PM
...wow did you just say DMC was a better prospect that AD?


no
Many people considered McFadden the better prospect of the two. If you deny that then you either weren't paying attention or are playing revisionist history.

fenikz
10-28-2009, 07:31 PM
This is the only draft site I go to and the AD love trumps everything besides maybe Jordyz, no way anyone who saw both play regularly would think that DMC was a better RB

bored of education
10-28-2009, 07:35 PM
I never liked DMC as much as AD. AD was a godly prospect even though I was a moron who likes Marshawn Lynch more. But im hyphy. it does help having a sick offensive line in Oakland. . .

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 07:42 PM
I thought about that too. He hasn't been all that productive even when healthy. When a guy is compared to Adrian Peterson it makes me ask myself how they would be doing if they swapped teams. I have a hard time believing Peterson would be a backup in Oakland. I also have a hard time envisioning McFadden as the best back in the league if he played in Minnesota.

I can see why they are compared. Relatively tall running backs with good speed that run high,but Peterson is a far more physical runner. McFadden has proven he can't handle the bulk of the carries.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-28-2009, 07:43 PM
iirc most of the smart people on this forum had either j stew or mendenhall or both ranked ahead of mcfadden

anyone who thought AD wasnt a better prospect was a fool. the ONLY thing you couldve said is that AD had injury concerns. of course, mcfadden did too with his skinny ass legs

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Seems like a Reggie Bush type of guy right now. Isnt good in between the tackles, but if he gets to the edge he can break it. If he can be completly healthy and have Michael Bush be our work horse, he should be able to get touches in many ways

Bush's size indicates he could be a workhorse,but he dances like a 5"10 185 back. Fargas is by far the most consistent runner of the group.

PoopSandwich
10-28-2009, 07:45 PM
DMC gets a pass because he's on the raiders...

Shane P. Hallam
10-28-2009, 07:46 PM
I don't think McFadden has quite proven that. An inability to stay healthy? yes. I'm still going to give him a bit more time. No one is AD, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 07:50 PM
I don't think McFadden has quite proven that. An inability to stay healthy? yes. I'm still going to give him a bit more time. No one is AD, so he shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.

He's missed 6 games in his career. I think he'll play,but will never be truly healthy. He's tall,slender,and runs high. He's far too easy to tackle to be a true feature back.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-28-2009, 08:00 PM
AD was the best RB prospect I've ever seen. McFadden was an excellent prospect, but I didn't have him on AD's level. Plus, Oakland is plain horrible in every way imaginable. Bad OL, no passing game, etc. He should be doing better, but he'd be a solid 4 ypc guy who is a weapon out of the backfield if he had anything close to competence around him. Still a disappointment, but yeah.

Also no one talks about him because, well... no one talks about the Raiders and he isn't holding them back or anything.

LonghornsLegend
10-28-2009, 08:03 PM
I thought about that too. He hasn't been all that productive even when healthy. When a guy is compared to Adrian Peterson it makes me ask myself how they would be doing if they swapped teams. I have a hard time believing Peterson would be a backup in Oakland. I also have a hard time envisioning McFadden as the best back in the league if he played in Minnesota.

Technically speaking McFadden isn't a back-up, he had already taken that starting job when he was healthy just prior to injury, so I don't know if I'd call him that anymore. He had overtaken Fargas and Bush at one point this year and it was obvious he was their most talented back.


Still, it looks way worse when you realize what type of back he is, and know that you can get guys like CJ and Felix Jones to do what he does much later without spending a top 10 pick. Still, I don't really give any 1st round pick by Oakland much of a chance, when they continually draft bust in the top 10 it makes me think it's more to do with the situation so much the player.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
10-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Technically speaking McFadden isn't a back-up, he had already taken that starting job when he was healthy just prior to injury, so I don't know if I'd call him that anymore. He had overtaken Fargas and Bush at one point this year and it was obvious he was their most talented back.


Still, it looks way worse when you realize what type of back he is, and know that you can get guys like CJ and Felix Jones to do what he does much later without spending a top 10 pick. Still, I don't really give any 1st round pick by Oakland much of a chance, when they continually draft bust in the top 10 it makes me think it's more to do with the situation so much the player.

Now this begs the question that if Crabtree was drafted by the Raiders, would he have been a bust? He's shown with limited practice that he's a very good player and even with JaMarcus Russell at QB, I think Crabtree would've succeeded there.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 08:13 PM
Now this begs the question that if Crabtree was drafted by the Raiders, would he have been a bust? He's shown with limited practice that he's a very good player and even with JaMarcus Russell at QB, I think Crabtree would've succeeded there.

A 5 yard throw is an adventure with JaWalrus.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-28-2009, 08:22 PM
Adrian Peterson would never settle for being a backup averaging 3.1ypc.

We'll likely never know what Peterson would "settle" for unless the Vikings offense starts playing like Oakland's.

McFadden is still easily the most dangerous player on that offense. He just can't stay healthy.

Thecollegedropout
10-28-2009, 08:40 PM
Hutchinson alone is a better O-Line than what the Raiders have put out the past 2 years......

A RB can only go as far as the O-Line will let them and if the O-Line isn't doing anything.....than you can't expect the RB to make much happen.

brat316
10-28-2009, 08:44 PM
the raiders just suck so much as a franchise.

Halsey
10-28-2009, 08:46 PM
If a RB was only as good as his line then that means any back could run as well behind Minnesota's line as Peterson does. Do you really believe any RB in the league would be as good as Peterson if they played for Minnesota? Conversely, If Peterson ran behind Oakland's line, do you really believe Peterson would average 3.1ypc? Really? Come on now.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Chester Taylor ran for 1200 yards before Peterson was drafted,and he's little more than a good third down back.

Thecollegedropout
10-28-2009, 08:54 PM
If a RB was only as good as his line then that means any back could run as well behind Minnesota's line as Peterson does. Do you really believe any RB in the league would be as good as Peterson if they played for Minnesota? Conversely, If Peterson ran behind Oakland's line, do you really believe Peterson would average 3.1ypc? Really? Come on now.
Obviously there is talent involved in regards to RBs but you see systems like Denver where the likes of Ron Dayne and Reuben Droughns can get themselves good seasons.

I do think that a lot of RBs can run well behind the Vikings O-Line but just won't produce what All Day has done. I don't think that many RBs can have good seasons under the crippled and weak Raiders O-Line however though......Maybe even Peterson.

Halsey
10-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Chester Taylor ran for 1200 yards before Peterson was drafted,and he's little more than a good third down back.

Peterson ran for 1,760 yards last year.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 08:56 PM
Peterson ran for 1,760 yards last year.

I wasn't attempting to asset Taylor was as good as AD,but their terrific oline can make an ordinary back seem good,and a good back seem great.

Bengalsrocket
10-28-2009, 08:58 PM
If a RB was only as good as his line then that means any back could run as well behind Minnesota's line as Peterson does. Do you really believe any RB in the league would be as good as Peterson if they played for Minnesota? Conversely, If Peterson ran behind Oakland's line, do you really believe Peterson would average 3.1ypc? Really? Come on now.

"only as good as his line" is the wrong term. But there is a limit to what a RB can do behind a crappy line.

If you never get to the second level, you have a very low chance of being successful.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Peterson is the best RB in the league. An OL can get you like 4-5 yards on their own. Just get you to the second level and give you room to get those yards, assuming the RB is good enough to hit the hole. But after that is primarily on the RB, with some exceptions like when WRs make great blocks. And AD is 2nd in the league with 6 20+ yard runs(tied with Benson, behind Chris Johnson who has 7).

P-L
10-28-2009, 09:13 PM
...wow did you just say DMC was a better prospect that AD?


no
Where were you prior to the 2008 draft? I'd say at least 60% of this board had McFadden as being a better prospect than Peterson.

The Vikings' offensive line might be a lot better than the Raiders, but it isn't like Minnesota had a competent passing game until this year.

Thecollegedropout
10-28-2009, 09:18 PM
The Vikings' offensive line might be a lot better than the Raiders, but it isn't like Minnesota had a competent passing game until this year.
I can't think that Tavaris Jackson of any year could be any worse than Russell of 08 or 09.

Really Oakland has nothing on offense besides Zach Miller and a healthy Gallery(Which he hardly is). No WRs, O-Line is pretty damn bad, QB might be the worst of the league. There's nothing going for McFadden....shoot unlike Peterson, he shares the ball with 2 others instead of just 1 guy.

The team is down in a lot of games anyhow for them to start running the ball down people's throats. Its just an entire mess.

Saints-Tigers
10-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Where were you prior to the 2008 draft? I'd say at least 60% of this board had McFadden as being a better prospect than Peterson.

The Vikings' offensive line might be a lot better than the Raiders, but it isn't like Minnesota had a competent passing game until this year.

There were a lot that thought McFadden was the better prospect. One guy said he was comparable to Bo Jackson.

CC.SD
10-28-2009, 09:23 PM
McFadden is not at fault for what's wrong with Oakland. He was in retrospect overdrafted but so are a lot of guys. Anyone who looked at Oakland's offseason that year...loading up on guys and paying out serious contracts (even if they were to players like Javon Walker and Deangelo Hall) knew that they were going to try and make a run, and taking the 'instant offense' RB was the right pick in that scenario.

However, it didn't quite work out. Oops.

Thecollegedropout
10-28-2009, 09:25 PM
It would have been interesting to have seen Run DMC slide past OAK and fall to the Jets at 6 because who knows how he'd get used or played under a more respectable O-Line.

Too bad Al Davis had to ruin that thought though.

katnip
10-28-2009, 09:26 PM
"only as good as his line" is the wrong term. But there is a limit to what a RB can do behind a crappy line.

If you never get to the second level, you have a very low chance of being successful.

Wasn't Barry Sanders lineman only considered average at best? Not saying Peterson's HOF.. Just wondering how good Barry's o-line was looked at.

In my kiddy years I remember it being barry = the lions

CC.SD
10-28-2009, 09:34 PM
Wasn't Barry Sanders lineman only considered average at best? Not saying Peterson's HOF.. Just wondering how good Barry's o-line was looked at.

In my kiddy years I remember it being barry = the lions

I remember Barry always had a million cuts to make before reaching the line of scrimmage so they must have been pretty durn terrible. Don't even mention Sanders in this thread.

scottyboy
10-28-2009, 09:37 PM
idk, maybe I was just blind as I had Rice and JStew as my top 2 RB's in the DMC draft and loved AD, but that's just me.

but I mean, he's in oakland, he gets a pass out of pity for him

yourfavestoner
10-28-2009, 09:58 PM
I called both Bush and Mcfadden as busts, but I liked McFadden more than Bush. Look at the skinny legs on both of them (compared to, say, Chris Johnson) and you'll know why they struggle running the ball in the big leagues.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-28-2009, 10:01 PM
idk, maybe I was just blind as I had Rice and JStew as my top 2 RB's in the DMC draft and loved AD, but that's just me.

but I mean, he's in oakland, he gets a pass out of pity for him

It's amazing how your epic homerism is turning out to be spot on.

EvilNixon
10-28-2009, 10:08 PM
I called both Bush and Mcfadden as busts, but I liked McFadden more than Bush. Look at the skinny legs on both of them (compared to, say, Chris Johnson) and you'll know why they struggle running the ball in the big leagues.

It's not necessarily the skinny legs,but the inability to be decisive about hitting the hole.McFadden runs too high,but if he were more decisive instead of trying to bounce it out and get more yards,he could be a solid 4 YPC guy. Bush has the size to do the exact same thing.

Fargas is a decisive runner,which is why he's the most reliable of our backfield.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-28-2009, 10:22 PM
If a RB was only as good as his line then that means any back could run as well behind Minnesota's line as Peterson does. Do you really believe any RB in the league would be as good as Peterson if they played for Minnesota? Conversely, If Peterson ran behind Oakland's line, do you really believe Peterson would average 3.1ypc? Really? Come on now.

No, I imagine Peterson would be doing better than 3.1 in Oakland. That's because he's a better running back. However, we shouldn't damn McFadden because he's worse than Peterson. Because, realistically, so is every other runner in the NFL. And considering that Chester Taylor has averaged 4.5 YPC during Peterson's three years in Minnesota, I do think that an average runner would find success in Minnesota that even a great runner wouldn't find in Oakland right now.

ElectricEye
10-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Adrian Peterson is an all time talent at runningback. We're talking Eric Dickerson, Earl Campbell, Walter Payton, Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker, and Jim Brown in terms of guys who he is with in terms of talent. He's one of those guys you can just tell when he runs. Nobody is like him in the league right now. Guys like that don't

I never really thought McFadden was close to that, but I didn't think he was going to struggle this much either. He's lost the ability to absorb contact in the NFL. He was never spectacular at that in college, but he did run with some power for Arkansas. It's not like he wasn't getting touched in the SEC. You don't run for 1600+ yards consecutive years with close to 300 carries in both of them as a scat back. Not giving up on him yet, but the knock on his legs is proving to be pretty true. He's able to get by smaller guys, but if he goes up against anyone his size or bigger he goes down on first contact. The Raiders line improving could make him look night and day better, but he still has some major weight room work to do. There's been flashes between the injuries, but it's always been in space. Bush is a pretty lazy comparison for his play, but it works as of right now, unfortunately. I'll still maintain they were very different runners in college.

General Zod
10-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Im still willing to give DMC a pass for now. Opposing defenses put like 11 people in the box because of no passing game.

Shiver
10-29-2009, 12:20 AM
The revisionist history on McFadden vs. Peterson slays me. About half of this forum liked Marshawn Lynch over Adrian Peterson, including a lot of well respected posters. There were quite a few who thought McFadden was as good as it gets. Of course all that changed in hindsight, but it was very close back in the day. Peterson was hardly the can't miss prospect.

Darren McFadden's problems are the same things he's always had. He fumbles way too often, but I wouldn't blame his low YPC on him. The Oakland offense he has been in is dreadful. He is facing 9 man fronts daring Russell and co. to beat them. If you put McFadden in Minnesota, behind Hutchinson and McKinnie I guarantee you he would be doing a lot better.

A Perfect Score
10-29-2009, 12:29 AM
The revisionist history on McFadden vs. Peterson slays me. About half of this forum liked Marshawn Lynch over Adrian Peterson, including a lot of well respected posters. There were quite a few who thought McFadden was as good as it gets. Of course all that changed in hindsight, but it was very close back in the day. Peterson was hardly the can't miss prospect.

Darren McFadden's problems are the same things he's always had. He fumbles way too often, but I wouldn't blame his low YPC on him. The Oakland offense he has been in is dreadful. He is facing 9 man fronts daring Russell and co. to beat them. If you put McFadden in Minnesota, behind Hutchinson and McKinnie I guarantee you he would be doing a lot better.

I remembered Adrian Peterson.

7-11
10-29-2009, 12:30 AM
I love how everyone bar a few posters are claiming that it was some massive consensus opinion that Peterson was this sure thing and DMC was just 'overdrafted'. Do you all only have a memory stretching back to Monday?

DMC, especially on these boards was largely seen as very close to or even equal to AD, and alot of posters thought he was a better prospect.

Shiver
10-29-2009, 12:31 AM
To be clear: I definitely had Adrian Peterson over Marshawn Lynch, and I had Mendenhall over McFadden. I just wanted to make the point that it was hardly a consensus here. There was a real concern about Peterson's durability that has yet to manifest itself in the NFL.

bigbuc
10-29-2009, 12:32 AM
Run Dmc was not that great of a back coming out. Can't make people miss and his legs go dead when you get a hand on him. I think he would do great in a one cut and go zone blocking system. He just needs a lane and he's gone with his speed. Hope he can get out from Oak! Or they invest in there Rb and next Qb with some O linemen. If I were Oak... I would try and trade him for a late first or early second. And let Bush be there back. Then invest that pick and there second on some O linemen because they should be drafting a new QB.

A Perfect Score
10-29-2009, 12:33 AM
I had Stewart as a better prospect then DMC, and AD as a better prospect then Stewart. I dont think I fit!

That said, DMC gets a pass from me, as Oakland are awful and I do not blame anyone to ever play there for failing.

San Diego Chicken
10-29-2009, 12:52 AM
I though D-Mac would be a star back, but during evaluations one thing people messed up on is not realizing that he doesn't have much elusiveness at all. He's a downhill, straight line runner with a quality stiff arm, but his open field moves aren't really there.

Also consider how many snaps he got out of the Wildcat in college. Definitely helped create running lanes galore for him. That said, there are still lots of skills he brings to the table.

ElectricEye
10-29-2009, 01:44 AM
I remembered Adrian Peterson.

Made one of those avatars. People were dropping him out the top twenty in mocks. Just as laughable now as it was then.


I agree that some people seem to either swayed there stance on AD or were awfully quiet about how highly they thought of him when he was being killed for running too up right and being injury prone, not being ALL that fast, ect. Marshawn Lynch was thought of VERY highly here for a while, probably too highly. The entire let's **** on the top runningback prospect that started with Reggie Bush trickled down to AD and in his case, it was completely unfair. That was the year of the two back system setup really taking off, so runningbacks were really devalued then, but still, pretty proud to say that I thought Peterson was the best runningback prospect I've seen. Thought both McFadden and Bush were up there too though :/

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 01:47 AM
Made one of those avatars. People were dropping him out the top twenty in mocks.

Yeah, it got pretty crazy. I made plenty of arguments as to why Peterson worried me and why Lynch might wind up with the longer NFL career, but I never had Peterson slotted as being anything but the #1 runner in mocks.

A Perfect Score
10-29-2009, 01:51 AM
Damn, this thread makes me wanna rock that avy again. I never had Peterson as anything but the best pure RB prospect Id ever seen. Who still has one of those avys kicking around?

ElectricEye
10-29-2009, 01:54 AM
Yeah, it got pretty crazy. I made plenty of arguments as to why Peterson worried me and why Lynch might wind up with the longer NFL career, but I never had Peterson slotted as being anything but the #1 runner in mocks.

Lynch looked really, really good his last few years at Cal. Didn't have the injury history Peterson had, didn't run as upright, didn't have the same aggressive running style. Those were the arguments most people made, I think. A lot of them weren't wrong....but they completely glazed over just how freaky, freaky talented AD is.

Xonraider
10-29-2009, 07:11 AM
Damn, this thread makes me wanna rock that avy again. I never had Peterson as anything but the best pure RB prospect Id ever seen. Who still has one of those avys kicking around?

I remember I was extremely high on AP... one of the proudest things in my ''scouting'' life lol...

FUNBUNCHER
10-29-2009, 09:16 AM
I remembered McFadden being compared to Peterson, maybe not on this site, not that they were exactly equal prospects.

Physically they are very similar except that DMC is not elusive.

drowe
10-29-2009, 09:43 AM
It's hard to compare because they came out in different drafts, but I thought McFadden and Peterson were on the same level, prospect wise. they drew obvious comparisons.

Peterson had injurie concerns and McFadden had character issues.

but, there were people that really didn't like Peterson because of his upright running style and injury history.

EvilNixon
10-29-2009, 09:45 AM
chester taylor averaged about 4.4ypc his final three years in baltimore. i hardly think the extra tenth of a yard in minnesota is all that relevant or indicative that dmc would suddenly turn into a competent back.

He wasn't the feature back in Baltimore.

Brothgar
10-29-2009, 10:02 AM
Where were you prior to the 2008 draft? I'd say at least 60% of this board had McFadden as being a better prospect than Peterson.

The Vikings' offensive line might be a lot better than the Raiders, but it isn't like Minnesota had a competent passing game until this year.

IIRC some people on this board said that McFadden was a worse prospect than Chris Johnson.

Shiver
10-29-2009, 10:12 AM
I though D-Mac would be a star back, but during evaluations one thing people messed up on is not realizing that he doesn't have much elusiveness at all. He's a downhill, straight line runner with a quality stiff arm, but his open field moves aren't really there.

Also consider how many snaps he got out of the Wildcat in college. Definitely helped create running lanes galore for him. That said, there are still lots of skills he brings to the table.

I would say the Wildhog with him and Felix Jones inflated him as a prospect, no doubt. No one knew how to stop it and it made McFadden a more productive and thus higher rated prospect.

EvilNixon
10-29-2009, 10:20 AM
i'm sure you'll be editing that post shortly to include the relevance.

Nah. He never carried the ball more than 160 times in his Baltimore years. YPC averages are very manipulative to runners with lower carry totals. 4.5 YPC on 160 attempts isn't as impressive as 4 YPC on 303 attempts. Attempting to compare them is ridiculous.

Given that he could stay healthy,McFadden would average far more than tenth of a yard per carry if he was the feature back in Minnesota.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 10:31 AM
chester taylor averaged about 4.4ypc his final three years in baltimore. i hardly think the extra tenth of a yard in minnesota is all that relevant or indicative that dmc would suddenly turn into a competent back.

I wasn't aware I was using Taylor's YPC as evidence of anything regarding McFadden. I pointed out that Taylor's YPC in Minnesota isn't lagging that far behind Peterson's despite Peterson's huge talent advantage. Then I suggested that even a great runner ("great" being anything short of Barry Sanders) on Oakland wouldn't be posting a YPC that a slightly above average runner (such as Taylor) is posting for Minnesota. Which seems pretty true to me.

DeathbyStat
10-29-2009, 10:34 AM
When came out i said he had hall of fame potential....I didn't say that about DMC

SchizophrenicBatman
10-29-2009, 10:35 AM
Wait, you guys mean the Marshawn Lynch hype was serious on this forum? I always thought that was just an elaborate joke by keak and his friends

Adrian Peterson was the best RB prospect I had ever seen after his freshman year (I'm 22 so, doesnt go back that far...). I wouldve taken him top 3 after that year and I am not big on taking RBs early. He was that good and anyone that watched college fb knew it

Darren McFadden headed a gimmick offense and looked like a WR when he ran. I dont remember anyone saying he was as good a prospect other than "well he's not as good as AD, but he doesnt have the injury concerns." Mayock absolutely destroyed him pre-draft and had him the #3 RB while a lot of people on this forum had either 1 or 2 other guys ahead of him. Come on

Actually, maybe the gimmick offense is hindsight. But the running style, chicken legs, even fumbling problem were all well known. I remember every time I watched Arkansas being more impressed with Felix Jones as an RB but there were always doubts about how he'd do w/o the defense keying in on McFadden and after his poor combine numbers his hype really quieted down, but the evidence was out there on game tape

draftguru151
10-29-2009, 12:16 PM
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1790/25197519.jpg

FlyingElvis
10-29-2009, 12:41 PM
I don't think McFadden gets a pass so much as it's just easier to say the Raiders are a joke. Actually breaking down the individual efforts (or lack thereof) seems like more work than a normal, average guy should bother undertaking.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 01:31 PM
and i suggested that taylor's ypc in minnesota is entirely irrelevant, given past performance. i think an average runner would find more success on 90% of the teams in the nfl than they would in oakland (sorry). the fact that taylor is averaging 0.1 ypc more in minnesota than he did in oakland is irrelevant.

You mean Baltimore? Sure, but that (Taylor's historical YPC) wasn't the comparison I was drawing. I think you're right that basically any runner who was part of a more functional offense would have better numbers and so I could have drawn a line to any runner who wasn't on Oakland. But Halsey brought up Peterson as part of his pretty illogical argument and so I drew the closest line there was to draw there, which was Taylor.

I'm still confused as to what in my post you take issue with.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 01:54 PM
Except that's not what I was responding to. I was responding to the question of how Peterson would fair in Oakland versus how he has fared in Minnesota and was drawing a comparison to the other runner who had run behind that Minnesota line during Peterson's three years.

I didn't mean that Chester Taylor's last 2.5 seasons in Minnesota indicate anything about McFadden, but they do indicate that not all of Peterson's awesome yardage is a result of his willpower or standards of excellence (like Halsey implicated in his first post). I was taking exception to the idea that the only difference between Peterson's and McFadden's respective NFL careers to date was drive and talent, when the functionality of their offenses is such an obvious factor. Taylor was a way to show that Minnesota had less than stellar runners who were effective in that offense.

draftguru151
10-29-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't think he is comparing anything to Baltimore, just saying that an average back (Taylor, who is an average RB) is putting up decent stats in the same offense than Peterson plays in, so it's not all Peterson completely dominating everyone by himself.

Gay Ork Wang
10-29-2009, 04:35 PM
but that doesnt lead to any conclusion about oakland

Shiver
10-29-2009, 04:39 PM
Chester Taylor isn't a good example; Baltimore had a very good O-Line at the time.

Vox Populi
10-29-2009, 05:01 PM
I had McFadden as the best running back prospect by a lot that year, but had JStew as being a much more pro-ready back with all his bulk. I had Peterson as my number 1 overall prospect when he came out but didn't have McFadden that far behind him as a prospect. I've said since I started watching McFadden highlights and probably 4 of his games in his last year at Arkansas that he isn't thick enough, I thought that if he could add to his frame he could be the exact same player as AD is.

I've given McFadden a pass because hes on the Raiders and teams know that all they have to do is shut down the running game and throw an 8 man front in there every single play and play the run first. Oakland actually has a really good rushing system that they use, but the passing game is so awful that it isn't working anymore. Anyone remember when they were pumping out great yardage from their running game for the two previous years under Lane and Art Shell? They actually had a potent rushing attack and you all saw it in the season opener this year against San Diego for the first quarter of the game when they literally ran it every single play because the Bolts weren't stacking the box on them. Add to that minor injuries and teams acknowledging the fact that the Raiders offense literally is just running the ball at this point. I remember last year the Bills had 8 in the box against the Raiders every play of the game and played with both safetys closer to the play than any other game of the season (why Higgins turned a slant into like a 60 yard score :( )

I'll give McFadden a pass until the Raiders have something that resembles a passing attack better than non-existent or he is on another team.

RaiderNation
10-29-2009, 05:22 PM
McFadden last year was hurt all year. He had a turf toe and didnt get healthy until the offseason.

Vox Populi
10-29-2009, 05:22 PM
i'm also curious how people reconcile justin fargas with the dmc-product-of-his-situation argument (seriously, not trying to make a back-handed point or catch anyone).

dude ran for 1000 yards with 4.5ypc the year before mcfadden came in, with an also not stellar (though granted, much better than current) passing attack. the following season, iirc, he replaced mcfadden in the lineup towards the end of the season. i don't recall mcfadden being hurt (he logged 13 games that year).

so, why was fargas able to run fairly effectively 3 years ago? why was dmc only getting (in say, week 17) all of one total carry in some games? he blasted KC, then progressively got the ball less and less every week (more or less) thereafter.

He got hurt in that KC game (turf toe I think? something with his foot iirc), and its been said in this thread that Fargas averages more because he is a more decisive runner. Fargas hits the hole at full speed (which is why I loved him as a runner when they started giving him carries, but also ends up with him also getting injured usually unfortunately...) while McFadden will try to run around everyone to the outside. Call it indecisive or say he wants to break a long one every play rather than taking the shorter gain, idk. I don't watch that much Raider football unless I'm surfing between games, not that I want to watch them much anyways...

Thats my take on it at least.

scottyboy
10-29-2009, 05:59 PM
It's amazing how your epic homerism is turning out to be spot on.

I know, I tend to win at things.

I remember getting rep raped for having Rice as 1a and J-stew 1b in my RB rankings. sometimes, just sometimes, scotty knows what he's talking about

Giantsfan1080
10-29-2009, 06:00 PM
I know, I tend to win at things.

I remember getting rep raped for having Rice as 1a and J-stew 1b in my RB rankings. sometimes, just sometimes, scotty knows what he's talking about

Ray Rice!!! I wish we had him back.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 06:20 PM
but that doesnt lead to any conclusion about oakland

Of course not. But it is relevant if the opening post of thread is comparing McFadden to Peterson while disregarding their respective situations. Which the OP of this thread is.

Gay Ork Wang
10-29-2009, 06:25 PM
Of course not. But it is relevant if the opening post of thread is comparing McFadden to Peterson while disregarding their respective situations. Which the OP of this thread is.
how is fargas explained then?

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2009, 06:34 PM
how is fargas explained then?

What about Fargas needs to be explained? He hasn't managed to hit 4+ YPC since 2007 and has only run for over 100 yards in a single game since then. He hasn't experienced any great amount of success while McFadden has struggled (in fact, McFadden was far more dangerous in 2008, if sporadically so).

I like Justin Fargas a lot, actually. He runs really hard and does a great job of throwing his body around for the extra yard. While McFadden is best suited for a ZBS (as is Bush, to a slightly lesser extent), Fargas is much better at creating yardage, which he needs to do in Oakland.

I'm very happy about having Fargas on the team, but I'm not sure what needs to be explained exactly.

J-Mike88
08-31-2010, 09:32 AM
Where is Raider Nation here?
I am watching the replay of the 49ers-Raiders game here.

I was, and still am, expecting big things from Darren McFadden.
What he did vs the SEC at Arkansas was spectacular. It was no mirage.

Has he just not been able to stay healthy? Was it Jamarcus Russell's fault as defenses didn't even need to cover WRs, or was/is the OL terrible?

I'm noticing here on NFL Network: 2 things. #1-Patrick Willis was in the backfield as soon as the handoff came, twice on McFadden runs. So that isn't his fault. #2-Jared Veldheer is starting? At center. Wow.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 10:27 AM
What about Fargas needs to be explained? He hasn't managed to hit 4+ YPC since 2007 and has only run for over 100 yards in a single game since then. He hasn't experienced any great amount of success while McFadden has struggled (in fact, McFadden was far more dangerous in 2008, if sporadically so).

I like Justin Fargas a lot, actually. He runs really hard and does a great job of throwing his body around for the extra yard. While McFadden is best suited for a ZBS (as is Bush, to a slightly lesser extent), Fargas is much better at creating yardage, which he needs to do in Oakland.

I'm very happy about having Fargas on the team, but I'm not sure what needs to be explained exactly.

That's something I've never thought of, but makes perfect sense. I've said before that he struggles because he's not particularly dominant in any one facet (he's not a power back, not a speed back, not overly strong or elusive, etc). His biggest asset is his ability to make a cut and explode upfield, and the ZBS would really help him take advantage of that.

619
08-31-2010, 10:42 AM
That's something I've never thought of, but makes perfect sense. I've said before that he struggles because he's not particularly dominant in any one facet (he's not a power back, not a speed back, not overly strong or elusive, etc). His biggest asset is his ability to make a cut and explode upfield, and the ZBS would really help him take advantage of that.

His best single game performance to date came whilst under Lane Kiffin's newly installed ZBS (which they finally scrapped this year), way back in his rookie year of '08. The ZBS is better suited for legitimate power backs, like Fargas when he was at his peak, and once he began to show signs of slowing down unsurprisingly so did the Raiders run game, going from 5th and 10th in rushing offense in '07 and '08 to a paltry 21st rank last season.

K Train
08-31-2010, 10:45 AM
lol i liked stewart, mendenhall and felix more than mcfadden, he turned out to be exactly what most people thought he would be.....a fast guy that goes down on contact.

he wasnt nearly adrian peterson, he wasnt even nearly reggie bush. at least bush was a tremendous receiver since day one. and peterson comparisons are just silly, peterson might get dinged up but the man is made of raw steel.

not saying i hated mcfadden as a prospect, but i didnt think he was top 10 worthy. a good friend of mine had him as his 9th best RB that year, i wasnt quite THAT down on him since he was my 4th but not being able to stay on the field has made all the criticisms of him pretty accurate.

he can throw a pretty ball though, maybe they could try that out lol

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 10:47 AM
lol i liked stewart, mendenhall and felix more than mcfadden, he turned out to be exactly what most people thought he would be.....a fast guy that goes down on contact.

he wasnt nearly adrian peterson, he wasnt even nearly reggie bush. at least bush was a tremendous receiver since day one. and peterson comparisons are just silly, peterson might get dinged up but the man is made of raw steel.

not saying i hated mcfadden as a prospect, but i didnt think he was top 10 worthy. a good friend of mine had him as his 9th best RB that year, i wasnt quite THAT down on him since he was my 4th but not being able to stay on the field has made all the criticisms of him pretty accurate.

he can throw a pretty ball though, maybe they could try that out lol

Rule #1 for drafting runningbacks: if his arms are bigger than his legs, take a pass for at least a round or two.

scottyboy
08-31-2010, 10:48 AM
is it sad I saw this thread bumped and I was subscribed to it and I thought "it's no doubt me talking about Ray Rice".
i'm so ******* predictable.

619
08-31-2010, 10:51 AM
McFadden is a tremendous down-the-field weapon as a receiver, whereas Bush is a better receiver behind the LOS. That's about the only facet of McFadden's game that I've been extremely pleased with, as I don't recall him being used that way in the "Wild Hog" offense.

Splat
08-31-2010, 10:54 AM
He has pretty much been a bust, he could still turn it around but it hasn't been pretty so far.

xxxxxxxx
08-31-2010, 10:59 AM
That's something I've never thought of, but makes perfect sense. I've said before that he struggles because he's not particularly dominant in any one facet (he's not a power back, not a speed back, not overly strong or elusive, etc). His biggest asset is his ability to make a cut and explode upfield, and the ZBS would really help him take advantage of that.

He trucks the **** out of people and he ran in the 4.3s.... not fast or powerful? what?

If he gets daylight hes gone.

K Train
08-31-2010, 11:02 AM
He trucks the **** out of people and he ran in the 4.3s.... not fast or powerful? what?

If he gets daylight hes gone.

he goes down instantly on contact. if he "trucks the **** out of someone" thats showing that hes not afraid to get dirty (despite always being injured), but i have yet to see him actually steam roll someone in the pros.

hes fast but he is by no means powerful

J-Mike88
08-31-2010, 11:05 AM
I still see the ability/talent there for him to be a star, but on the right team and in the right system.

If they had Carolina's OL, I think McFadden & Bush could rival DeAngelo & Stewart. Or am I overrating Bush & McFadden? I have seen some greatness in each guy, just not enough which I believe is due to the offense/OL/QB.

619
08-31-2010, 11:07 AM
He does have a filthy stiffarm, I'll give him that, but in my two years of watching him I have NEVER seen him "truck the **** out of people".

xxxxxxxx
08-31-2010, 11:09 AM
he goes down instantly on contact. if he "trucks the **** out of someone" thats showing that hes not afraid to get dirty (despite always being injured), but i have yet to see him actually steam roll someone in the pros.

hes fast but he is by no means powerful

i was talking about at arkansas. oakland just ruined him. put him on a decent team, and people will see. he's legit. and his legs are only small looking cause the dude is like 6'3''

Splat
08-31-2010, 11:09 AM
He trucks the **** out of people and he ran in the 4.3s.... not fast or powerful? what?

If he gets daylight hes gone.

Maybe on Madden.

619
08-31-2010, 11:13 AM
I still see the ability/talent there for him to be a star, but on the right team and in the right system.

If they had Carolina's OL, I think McFadden & Bush could rival DeAngelo & Stewart. Or am I overrating Bush & McFadden? I have seen some greatness in each guy, just not enough which I believe is due to the offense/OL/QB.

You're slightly overrating them. Put either back in the ZBS with a much, much better O-Line and then we're talking about two 1000+ yard rushers. If McFadden is cut/traded this offseason, then for his own good I hope he goes to Houston, assuming their tailback situation doesn't get any better. Shanahan could do wonders with him in DC. Anywhere but Denver, really. :)

619
08-31-2010, 11:15 AM
McFadden is a boss in Madden, still. Madden always finds a way of overrating "speed" backs.

Splat
08-31-2010, 11:17 AM
I actually really like Bush and feel he is by far the Raiders best back, with just a little better QB play he should top 1000 yards rushing.

K Train
08-31-2010, 11:18 AM
McFadden is a boss in Madden, still. Madden always finds a way of overrating "speed" backs.
speed everything, give me heyward bey in madden over fitz anyday

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 11:19 AM
He trucks the **** out of people and he ran in the 4.3s.... not fast or powerful? what?

If he gets daylight hes gone.

Never said that he wasn't fast, I said that he's not a pure speed back and he's not overly elusive. There is a huge difference.

And truck the **** out of people, he does not.

In his two year career, he has two carries of over 20 yards. That's downright sad.

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Oakland+Raiders+Rookie+Mini+Camp+2HWyf5_qaU-l.jpg

And how on earth can you say that the dude doesn't have chicken legs? He doesn't even have calves.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 11:22 AM
I actually really like Bush and feel he is by far the Raiders best back, with just a little better QB play he should top 1000 yards rushing.

I've never been a Bush fan, but I read a stat somewhere that said in the three games Oakland has given him fifteen touches or more, he's averaged like 140 yards from scrimmage or something ridiculous like that.

K Train
08-31-2010, 11:25 AM
Never said that he wasn't fast, I said that he's not a pure speed back and he's not overly elusive. There is a huge difference.

And truck the **** out of people, he does not.

In his two year career, he has two carries of over 20 yards. That's downright sad.

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Oakland+Raiders+Rookie+Mini+Camp+2HWyf5_qaU-l.jpg

And how on earth can you say that the dude doesn't have chicken legs? He doesn't even have calves.

big time chicken legs. hes got willie parker syndrome. blazing straight line speed, not enough elusiveness or top notch vision, pretty poor receiver and knee/ankle problems

K Train
08-31-2010, 11:26 AM
I've never been a Bush fan, but I read a stat somewhere that said in the three games Oakland has given him fifteen touches or more, he's averaged like 140 yards from scrimmage or something ridiculous like that.

pre broken leg i had bush over peterson.....seems foolish now and i moved him down to a second round guy after the injury but i was pretty high on bush.

J-Mike88
08-31-2010, 11:30 AM
big time chicken legs. hes got willie parker syndrome. blazing straight line speed, not enough elusiveness or top notch vision, pretty poor receiver and knee/ankle problems
Yeah, but his chicken legs are a half-foot longer than Fast Willie's.
I bet McFadden wishes he was 4 inches shorter.

How tall is CJ2K?

619
08-31-2010, 11:32 AM
How tall is CJ2K?

5'11'', I think.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 11:32 AM
pre broken leg i had bush over peterson.....seems foolish now and i moved him down to a second round guy after the injury but i was pretty high on bush.

I didn't like him because I saw too much Lendale/Ron Dayne/TJ Duckett in him in college. He was a big back w/pretty good feet who didn't like to get his jersey dirty. Big backs who think they're scatbacks is a huge, huge turnoff for me. He's turned into a better NFL player than I thought he would.

My runningback rankings over the years (and I'd have to really look back and do some digging to verify) went something like this...

1. Peterson (had him as the best overall player in his entire draft class...over Megatron, Thomas, Russell, etc. One of the few runningbacks ever worthy of being taken in the top 5 and he goes 7th overall haha)



2. Deangelo Williams
3. Marshawn Lynch
4. Cedric Benson
5. Jonathan Stewart

My next tier is a jumbled mess of guys like Cadillac, Felix Jones, MJD, etc.

I'm a sucker for power backs. I was really, really down on Reggie Bush and McFadden (I liked Run DMC more than Reggie, though. Reggie's probably been my least favorite RB prospect ever). And I was absolutely in love with Deangelo Williams coming out. I wanted Jacksonville to draft him desperately, but we got MJD as a very nice consolation prize haha.

K Train
08-31-2010, 11:35 AM
I didn't like him because I saw too much Lendale/Ron Dayne/TJ Duckett in him in college. He was a big back w/pretty good feet who didn't like to get his jersey dirty. Big backs who think they're scatbacks is a huge, huge turnoff for me. He's turned into a very nice NFL player.

i could see that, i felt that way about white especially. i loved bush's feet though. this was around the time when steelers fans were desperately looking for "the next bettis" and there were ALWAYS duckett and white rumors. i liked what bush brought to the table so much more

bernbabybern820
08-31-2010, 11:48 AM
And truck the **** out of people, he does not.

lol he actually does truck people but never with the football. He's laid out many players while blocking including Haloti Ngata.

Of course he needed 10 yards of acceleration and players not paying attention.

McFadden loves contact but his lower body isn't suited for it yet.

big time chicken legs. hes got willie parker syndrome. blazing straight line speed, not enough elusiveness or top notch vision, pretty poor receiver and knee/ankle problems

McFadden is a great receiver though.

DeathbyStat
08-31-2010, 11:50 AM
Good or bad Mcfadden at this point is completely irrelevant a sub reggie bush type of player

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 01:57 PM
1. Peterson (had him as the best overall player in his entire draft class...over Megatron, Thomas, Russell, etc. One of the few runningbacks ever worthy of being taken in the top 5 and he goes 7th overall haha)



2. Deangelo Williams
3. Marshawn Lynch
4. Cedric Benson
5. Jonathan Stewart

My next tier is a jumbled mess of guys like Cadillac, Felix Jones, MJD, etc.

Ronnie Brown?

Anyhow, either McFadden will be healthy for a season or he won't be and will bust through a failure to consistently see the field. Right now he's the kind of guy who can take a dump off or a screen pass and sprint 20 yards before the defense can react, but that's about it. He's not showing great vision and he absolutely sucks at running through tackles.

It's sad. I wanted him here and I thought he could be dominant (that game against KC his rookie year didn't hurt that conviction), but right now Bush is easily the more viable every down runner.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 02:06 PM
Ronnie Brown?

Anyhow, either McFadden will be healthy for a season or he won't be and will bust through a failure to consistently see the field. Right now he's the kind of guy who can take a dump off or a screen pass and sprint 20 yards before the defense can react, but that's about it. He's not showing great vision and he absolutely sucks at running through tackles.

It's sad. I wanted him here and I thought he could be dominant (that game against KC his rookie year didn't hurt that conviction), but right now Bush is easily the more viable every down runner.

I wasn't high on Brown, but it had more to do with me liking Cadillac more as a runner than anything. Cadillac pre-injury was one of the most fun runningbacks to watch. He was so fluid in his movements it was ridiculous.

******* Gruden ran him into the ground six weeks into his rookie season. Ugh.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 02:14 PM
Cadillac was super fluid, but I think we've all forgotten Ronnie Brown's insane athleticism. Dude ran over college defenders like he was Bo Jackson and was awesome at the combine.

That was such a good duo of college tailbacks. Damn.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 02:21 PM
Am I the only person who thinks that Darren McFadden's draft stock was overly inflated because of the "wildhog"? It was still a new concept, relatively, and it took college and the NFL by storm. Now it's newness has worn off and it isn't as dynamic as it once was. It emphasized his strengths and masked his weaknesses I feel.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 02:24 PM
That is definitely the case. He got a lot of space up the middle at Arkansas as a result of the wildhog. That said, McFadden was still wildly successful as a I-back at Arkansas. He accelerated through the line as well as anyone in the nation at the time, he made his one cut consistently, and could stiff-arm any college DB without much concern. Both Oakland's inconsistency inside and his inability to stay healthy have given us very little to judge his ability to be that single deep back in the NFL.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 02:26 PM
Am I the only person who thinks that Darren McFadden's draft stock was overly inflated because of the "wildhog"? It was still a new concept, relatively, and it took college and the NFL by storm. Now it's newness has worn off and it isn't as dynamic as it once was. It emphasized his strengths and masked his weaknesses I feel.

I think it's just another case of a player with elite production and elite measureables whose game just doesn't quite translate to the NFL.

He really just needs to put some meat on those legs, and he'd be fine I think.

A Perfect Score
08-31-2010, 02:28 PM
I would say that if anything, McFadden's draft stock was inflated due to Adrian Peterson's success as a rookie. The two were perpetually compared and/or linked during their respective college careers, and I think that after Peterson came to the NFL and blew up, people assumed that his college counterpart McFadden could have the same sort of dynamic effect on an offense. Of course, McFadden was never half the prospect that Peterson was, but I think that alot of revisionist history goes on surrounding the two. There was an "I Remember Adrian Peterson" movement for a reason...alot of people, especially on this board, never thought he would stay healthy. I remember around draft time the year after, many people liked McFadden better then Peterson as a prospect.

Halsey
08-31-2010, 02:34 PM
I didn't think McFadden was worth a top 10 pick at the time, but I had no idea he'd be so unimpressive. I thought he would be a good RB, but it's the rare back that's worth a top 5-10 pick.

hockey619
08-31-2010, 02:42 PM
1. Peterson (had him as the best overall player in his entire draft class...over Megatron, Thomas, Russell, etc. One of the few runningbacks ever worthy of being taken in the top 5 and he goes 7th overall haha)
2. Deangelo Williams
3. Marshawn Lynch
4. Cedric Benson
5. Jonathan Stewart

My next tier is a jumbled mess of guys like Cadillac, Felix Jones, MJD, etc.

I'm a sucker for power backs. I was really, really down on Reggie Bush and McFadden (I liked Run DMC more than Reggie, though. Reggie's probably been my least favorite RB prospect ever).



I like me the power guys too, versatile doesnt hurt either.

I liked reggie but not really as a running back, more as a toy. i thought with a creative playcaller he could get the space hed need to make plays, but that as a traditional back hed be ok but not special.

1 J Stewart: animal, absolutely loved him
2 Peterson: also an animal but neve been big on tall rb's
3 Benson: dude was just solid
4 reggie: if used properly, more as a guy with equal catches/rush attempts
5 moreno: loved how angry he ran

To be fair though, i didnt rank a lot of guys because i never saw them. caddy, brown, d.williams, never saw them in college so i cant judge. i saw mcfadden at arkansas but was just never that blown away, looked kinda stiff to me, like a sprinter and not a runner idk.

for the future im liking Trent Richardson, reminds me a little of ricky williams with his power and speed at almost the same size.

A Perfect Score
08-31-2010, 02:47 PM
I absolutely loved Cedric Benson at Texas. The guy was unreal. If Im ranking RBs going back to the 2005 draft, which you all seem to be doing, it would look something like...

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Cedric Benson
3. DeAngelo Williams
4. Johnathon Stewart
5. C.J Spiller
6. Beanie Wells

For what its worth, I thought Chris Johnson was going to be a huge bust. I thought the Titans were crazy for making that pick.

K Train
08-31-2010, 02:50 PM
I like me the power guys too, versatile doesnt hurt either.

I liked reggie but not really as a running back, more as a toy. i thought with a creative playcaller he could get the space hed need to make plays, but that as a traditional back hed be ok but not special.

1 J Stewart: animal, absolutely loved him
2 Peterson: also an animal but neve been big on tall rb's
3 Benson: dude was just solid
4 reggie: if used properly, more as a guy with equal catches/rush attempts
5 moreno: loved how angry he ran

To be fair though, i didnt rank a lot of guys because i never saw them. caddy, brown, d.williams, never saw them in college so i cant judge. i saw mcfadden at arkansas but was just never that blown away, looked kinda stiff to me, like a sprinter and not a runner idk.

for the future im liking Trent Richardson, reminds me a little of ricky williams with his power and speed at almost the same size.

i loved reggie....i still kinda love reggie since he shafted USC, i always thought he should have put his start RB ego aside and come out as a WR...hopefully we see the same reggie we saw in the playoffs this season.

i loved stewart, thought he was the closest thing to LT since LT, just great in all aspects. power, speed, blocking, receiving...he did it all

scottyboy
08-31-2010, 02:52 PM
I think of past RB's my list as prospects would be something like this:

1. Raymell Rice- none of you can argue that I had him #1. Homerism wins out!
2. Caddy- Like YFS said, watching him run was just a treat
3. Ronnie Brown- honestly, he and Caddy are 2a and 2b. Loved watching these guys do what they do.
4. Adrian Peterson- wasn't a HUGE fan, but I realized he was just gonna be flat out good.
5. J-Stew- I posted all the time saying he was the 1b to Raymell for me in that draft.

P-L
08-31-2010, 02:52 PM
I loved Chris Johnson coming out but even I couldn't have imagined he'd be this good.

K Train
08-31-2010, 02:54 PM
I absolutely loved Cedric Benson at Texas. The guy was unreal. If Im ranking RBs going back to the 2005 draft, which you all seem to be doing, it would look something like...

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Cedric Benson
3. DeAngelo Williams
4. Johnathon Stewart
5. C.J Spiller
6. Beanie Wells

For what its worth, I thought Chris Johnson was going to be a huge bust. I thought the Titans were crazy for making that pick.
i would go

Peterson
Stewart
Reggie
Lynch (loved him)
Benson
Mendenhall

idk where michael bush would have fell if he didnt get injured, i did at one point have him over peterson so who knows

chris johnson out of ECU was fast, weak and had little girl hands....no one thought hed be as good as he is. he was a poor man reggie bush, not reggie as a prospect, reggie as an established disappointment

Shiver
08-31-2010, 03:09 PM
Hilarious! After most of this board had a raging boner for Marshawn Lynch (many, many, many had him over Peterson) that only the guy who joined in 2010 has him as one of his favorite "prospects." This thread has more revision than you can shake a stick at.

Anyway mine:

2005

1. Carnell Williams
2. Ronnie Brown
3. Cedric Benson

2006

1. Reggie Bush
2. Laurence Maroney
3. Joseph Addai
4. DeAngelo Williams
5. Maurice Jones-Drew
6. LenDale White

I was way off this year. The forum definitely had a DeAngelo Williams man-crush.

2007

1. Adrian Peterson
2. Marshawn Lynch

I never had to join "I Remember Adrian Peterson" because I never fell for the Marshawn Lynch trap.

2008

1. Rashard Mendenhall
2. Darren McFadden
3. Jonathan Stewart
4. Matt Forte
5. Felix Jones

I was huge on the Mendenhall is no. 1 camp. I thought McFadden would be good, but not great and I was skeptical of Jonathan Stewart.

P-L
08-31-2010, 03:12 PM
It wasn't that many Shiver. There were a handful of Lynch guys, but the vast majority still liked Peterson better.

EDIT: There is more revisionist history in regards to McFadden/Peterson than there is to Lynch/Peterson.

scottyboy
08-31-2010, 03:14 PM
there was a fair amount of Lynch love. we're going in the wayy back machine here if we're bringing back Caddy and Ronnie.
but yea, Raymell <3
i'm sorry, I just can't help it, i've got problems.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 03:17 PM
It wasn't that many Shiver. There were a handful of Lynch guys, but the vast majority still liked Peterson better.

EDIT: There is more revisionist history in regards to McFadden/Peterson than there is to Lynch/Peterson.


I seem to remember it being 50-50. The injuries were a concern, but also people didn't like his tall upright running style. They loved Lynch's body type, his physicality and his pass catching. He was more of the "pro" back.

McFadden/Peterson was something too. Mel Kiper and everyone here had McFadden as the better pro prospect; then, Adrian Peterson got 296 yards against the Chargers and literally everyone rewrote their prognostications on Peterson. Then the next year everyone pretended that Peterson was the vastly superior prospect all along. BS.

tjsunstein
08-31-2010, 03:19 PM
I wanted Lynch to fall to the Packers in '07 more than anything because I knew it was unrealistic that Peterson would. I probably talked more about Lynch for that sole fact but in my eyes, Peterson was clearly a better prospect.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 03:20 PM
Amazing that Peterson was the one with durability concerns and yet it has been McFadden whose career has been ruined by them.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 03:42 PM
I seem to remember it being 50-50. The injuries were a concern, but also people didn't like his tall upright running style. They loved Lynch's body type, his physicality and his pass catching. He was more of the "pro" back.

McFadden/Peterson was something too. Mel Kiper and everyone here had McFadden as the better pro prospect; then, Adrian Peterson got 296 yards against the Chargers and literally everyone rewrote their prognostications on Peterson. Then the next year everyone pretended that Peterson was the vastly superior prospect all along. BS.

I remember this, and I thought it was one of the more asinine collective opinions this board has ever had.

For whatever reason, this board can't differentiate between freak injuries and being injury prone. Beanie Wells caught the same "injury prone" rap as Peterson, when the only injury he suffered was a high ankle sprain that hampered him in his junior campaign. People on this board would lead you to believe that Fred Taylor is an ironman compared to those two coming out.

I was sold on Peterson five games into his freshman year at Oklahoma. Dude was leg pressing over 1000 lbs with one leg as an 18 year old kid. He's one of the few guys ever who could have made the jump straight to the NFL.

San Diego Chicken
08-31-2010, 04:00 PM
One of my beefs with this forum is how users throw out the "Well, everyone liked this prospect! But I was the smart one and liked the other guy all along!"

Well, it's a message board, we have proof. Instead of just generally saying "everyone felt this way", link up some threads that actually confirm that "everyone felt that way".

And for the record, when you're comparing two draft prospects there's always going to be a minority (either large or big) that elevates the #2 or #3 consensus prospect and declares that he's better. It's just the nature of the game. Toonster (who I haven't seen in a while) was notorious for this.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 04:07 PM
Amazing that Peterson was the one with durability concerns and yet it has been McFadden whose career has been ruined by them.

It just shows what a crapshoot injury predictions are unless there's a sound medical reason.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 04:30 PM
One of my beefs with this forum is how users throw out the "Well, everyone liked this prospect! But I was the smart one and liked the other guy all along!"

Well, it's a message board, we have proof. Instead of just generally saying "everyone felt this way", link up some threads that actually confirm that "everyone felt that way".

And for the record, when you're comparing two draft prospects there's always going to be a minority (either large or big) that elevates the #2 or #3 consensus prospect and declares that he's better. It's just the nature of the game. Toonster (who I haven't seen in a while) was notorious for this.

The draft forum only goes back to 2009. The NFL forum goes back to 2006.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 04:35 PM
The draft forum only goes back to 2009. The NFL forum goes back to 2006.

Yeah, I could only find two old posts I made about McFadden, and they were both about how I thought Jonathan Stewart was better. And both of those were in the College Football thread. I wasn't really posting as much that in that 07-08 timeframe, though.

I want to read 2006 stuff with Moses telling anyone who would listen that Reggie Bush was Gale Sayers/Marshall Faulk combined into one prospect and was a sure-fire Hall of Famer.

I will say, though, that more people than I remembered thought McFadden was overrated as a prospect.

ATLDirtyBirds
08-31-2010, 04:39 PM
Man, I loved the hell out of DeAngelo Williams. I remember being so bummed out when the Panthers took about 6 seconds to pick him.

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 04:40 PM
Man, I loved the hell out of DeAngelo Williams. I remember being so bummed out when the Panthers took about 6 seconds to pick him.

ME TOOOOOOOOO. Gah, I had such a huge mancrush on him and Jonathan Stewart, and the Panthers got both of them.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 04:57 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11440&highlight=darren+mcfadden
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12895&highlight=darren+mcfadden

There is your link. McFadden got just as much love as Adrian Peterson did. I like these threads because I was in the Peterson > McFadden > Bush camp. It wasn't a consensus, but the numbers were pretty evenly split.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 04:59 PM
Yeah, I could only find two old posts I made about McFadden, and they were both about how I thought Jonathan Stewart was better. And both of those were in the College Football thread. I wasn't really posting as much that in that 07-08 timeframe, though.

I want to read 2006 stuff with Moses telling anyone who would listen that Reggie Bush was Gale Sayers/Marshall Faulk combined into one prospect and was a sure-fire Hall of Famer.

I will say, though, that more people than I remembered thought McFadden was overrated as a prospect.


http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1169&page=2&highlight=texans+mario+williams

Still not old enough. There are no records of the immediate, after the draft discussions. Argh. Those were classic.

San Diego Chicken
08-31-2010, 05:01 PM
The draft forum only goes back to 2009. The NFL forum goes back to 2006.

You can use Google sitesearch. I've found threads in the draft forum from 06.

CC.SD
08-31-2010, 05:02 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11440&highlight=darren+mcfadden
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12895&highlight=darren+mcfadden

There is your link. McFadden got just as much love as Adrian Peterson did. I like these threads because I was in the Peterson > McFadden > Bush camp. It wasn't a consensus, but the numbers were pretty evenly split.

lol so glad I'm there on the first page calling McFadden a 'faster Deuce McCallister'. I swear I've been right about a lot of prospects, guys. Guys?

TitanHope
08-31-2010, 05:07 PM
lol so glad I'm there on the first page calling McFadden a 'faster Deuce McCallister'. I swear I've been right about a lot of prospects, guys. Guys?

ChargerCohen made that claim!

You shouldn't take credit for other people's work, CC.SD!

CAN'T FOOL ME! NOT THESE EYES! HAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Shiver
08-31-2010, 05:08 PM
It's ok. I was dead wrong about Laurence Maroney. I liked him a lot.

CC.SD
08-31-2010, 05:13 PM
ChargerCohen made that claim!

You shouldn't take credit for other people's work, CC.SD!

CAN'T FOOL ME! NOT THESE EYES! HAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You can't prove any of these allegations TH!

K Train
08-31-2010, 05:13 PM
Hilarious! After most of this board had a raging boner for Marshawn Lynch (many, many, many had him over Peterson) that only the guy who joined in 2010 has him as one of his favorite "prospects." This thread has more revision than you can shake a stick at.
.

honestly i forgot they were the same year, after so many years i just lump guys together on how much i liked/didnt like them as prospects vs what they are and how they did in the pros. hated revis, loved lynch....it happens. favorite prospect ever is still calvin johnson....i loved that man so much i refuse to compare other WRs to him as a prospect lol

anyway i never had lynch over peterson, but i loved lynch as a work horse and as a receiving back....it just looked so good at cal

Jvig43
08-31-2010, 05:24 PM
My favorite from those threads are the people claiming that DMC was better because he was going to be less injury prone on a pro level..... D'oh.

RaiderNation
08-31-2010, 06:29 PM
If he doesnt produce this year, I expect him to get the same fate as JaMarcus and get cut

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 07:31 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11440&highlight=darren+mcfadden
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12895&highlight=darren+mcfadden

These links are embarrassing.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2010, 08:27 PM
I seem to remember it being 50-50. The injuries were a concern, but also people didn't like his tall upright running style. They loved Lynch's body type, his physicality and his pass catching. He was more of the "pro" back.

McFadden/Peterson was something too. Mel Kiper and everyone here had McFadden as the better pro prospect; then, Adrian Peterson got 296 yards against the Chargers and literally everyone rewrote their prognostications on Peterson. Then the next year everyone pretended that Peterson was the vastly superior prospect all along. BS.

I don't think it was quite 50-50, but the Lynch fans were really vocal about it to make it seem like there were more. It was pretty sizable, sizable enough to make us wear those boss "I remember Adrian Peterson" avatars. I always remembered Adrian Peterson and had him as my #1 player that year(right ahead of Jamarcus... lol). I did expect McFadden and Lynch to be better than they've been though.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2010, 08:38 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11440&highlight=darren+mcfadden
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12895&highlight=darren+mcfadden

There is your link. McFadden got just as much love as Adrian Peterson did. I like these threads because I was in the Peterson > McFadden > Bush camp. It wasn't a consensus, but the numbers were pretty evenly split.

Haha, great digging

*checks to make sure I actually was in the AD camp and wasn't misremembering things*

phew.

P.S.
DG is closet a lot of things.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I could only find two old posts I made about McFadden, and they were both about how I thought Jonathan Stewart was better. And both of those were in the College Football thread. I wasn't really posting as much that in that 07-08 timeframe, though.

I want to read 2006 stuff with Moses telling anyone who would listen that Reggie Bush was Gale Sayers/Marshall Faulk combined into one prospect and was a sure-fire Hall of Famer.

I will say, though, that more people than I remembered thought McFadden was overrated as a prospect.

Hahahaha, Moses made all Canadians looks bad.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 09:20 PM
Holy poop, TOONSTER called McFadden a better prospect.

My opinion hasn't really changed in that, I think, prospect value wise, McFadden's the best in recent memory. I like him better than Peterson. That said, there's a whole year of film to go through, so we'll see if anything changes my mind this year.

Ouch.

AD has given me erections since Palestine.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 09:23 PM
To be fair (I have a vested interest, because I said the exact same thing in the first response of the first link), McFadden went earlier in his respective draft and while there was more dissenting opinion on McFadden, those who loved him had him rated very very high.

This all depends on whether you recognize the difference between prospect quality and prospect value. The latter is trying to figure out who is generally the better rated. That said, considering how much better Peterson has been, there's not much to defend there.

P-L
08-31-2010, 09:32 PM
Holy poop, TOONSTER called McFadden a better prospect.



Ouch.

AD has given me erections since Palestine.
Toon wasn't very high on Peterson for some reason. He was also one of the guys who had Marshawn Lynch rated higher.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 09:37 PM
or a certain other poster calling him the best running back of all time, pre-draft.

god i hated that draft year. not only did it suck listening to everyone hug bush's nuts, but then there were the legion vince fans, too.

I was an Insta-Vince fan. That performance, controversial or not, was simply disgusting. One of my few bandwagon moments, as I didn't like him before that.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2010, 09:44 PM
I was an Insta-Vince fan. That performance, controversial or not, was simply disgusting. One of my few bandwagon moments, as I didn't like him before that.

Me too. That game got me on this site, I wanted to find out what kind of pro prospect VY was.

Then as soon as we drafted Cutler I turned against Vince. Ha.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 09:51 PM
Me too. That game got me on this site, I wanted to find out what kind of pro prospect VY was.

Then as soon as we drafted Cutler I turned against Vince. Ha.

And look what that got you. Cutler on the Bears...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2010, 09:57 PM
And look what that got you. Cutler on the Bears...

Works for me.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lMtvRmC_6cw/S6qFM1FZnAI/AAAAAAAAEVw/5hVnU9qvleU/s320/tebow-jesus.jpg

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 10:01 PM
Sadly, I am one of the people who think that lamb would probably have a better NFL career than Tebow.

But, all the luck in the world to ya, champ.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-31-2010, 10:03 PM
or a certain other poster calling him the best running back of all time, pre-draft.

god i hated that draft year. not only did it suck listening to everyone hug bush's nuts, but then there were the legion vince fans, too.

Not even to mention the clusterfuck that was Houston's announcement on Williams.

Jvig43
08-31-2010, 10:03 PM
Sadly, I am one of the people who think that lamb would probably have a better NFL career than Tebow.

But, all the luck in the world to ya, champ.

And both of them will have a better career then Cutler. ;)

Shiver
08-31-2010, 10:24 PM
Toon wasn't very high on Peterson for some reason. He was also one of the guys who had Marshawn Lynch rated higher.


That would explain why there were so many Lynch fans. Toonster was very persuasive in his arguments. I thought that he was one of the heretics but I wasn't sure.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 10:25 PM
What?! You don't pass on Reggie Bush! He is Gale Sayers incarnate! This is Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan all over again.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 10:27 PM
That would explain why there were so many Lynch fans. Toonster was very persuasive in his arguments. I thought that he was one of the heretics but I wasn't sure.

Well, at the end everyone took what he said as religion, instead of realizing it's football. Even the BEST analysts are wrong like 30% of the time, never mind us football posters.

Toonster knew his ish, but damn, think for yourself.

Didn't it turn out in the end that he wasn't asian? He had me tricked with the Wu, tell you that much.

steelersfan43
08-31-2010, 10:27 PM
Works for me.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lMtvRmC_6cw/S6qFM1FZnAI/AAAAAAAAEVw/5hVnU9qvleU/s320/tebow-jesus.jpg

Dont even try to act like your happy about how things turned out. Thats annoying

P-L
08-31-2010, 10:33 PM
Well, at the end everyone took what he said as religion, instead of realizing it's football. Even the BEST analysts are wrong like 30% of the time, never mind us football posters.

Toonster knew his ish, but damn, think for yourself.

Didn't it turn out in the end that he wasn't asian? He had me tricked with the Wu, tell you that much.
Toonster really is asian.

Shiver
08-31-2010, 10:34 PM
I miss him. He wasn't afraid to really challenge conventional wisdom.

AHungryWalrus
08-31-2010, 10:38 PM
Toonster really is asian.

I couldn't remember if it turned out he was, or if it was the other way... Far too long ago.

Either way, too bad he stopped posting. I liked how 90% of his posts were like a page long of reasoning.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-31-2010, 10:43 PM
Dont even try to act like your happy about how things turned out. Thats annoying

It's not that I'm happy or unhappy, it's just that there's no sense in dwelling on what has already happened. You have to look towards the future and what is there now.

steelersfan43
08-31-2010, 10:45 PM
It's not that I'm happy or unhappy, it's just that there's no sense in dwelling on what has already happened. You have to look towards the future and what is there now.

ok ok haha respect

yourfavestoner
08-31-2010, 11:25 PM
I couldn't remember if it turned out he was, or if it was the other way... Far too long ago.

Either way, too bad he stopped posting. I liked how 90% of his posts were like a page long of reasoning.

Dude, I remember how he wrote a ******* 5000 word essay on here about how inaccurate a portrayal 300 was of the Battle of Thermopylae haha.

Rosebud
09-01-2010, 03:19 AM
I still think DMC could be hugely successful in a better situation. Staying in Oakland just re-inforces the bad habits he's started to develop. I liked pretty much that entire class but IMO DMC had, and still has the highest potential. Put him behind Tennessee's OL from day one and I think DMC could've been even more dangerous than CJ2K.

As for AD I do remember a lot of people being worried about his upright running and the injury concerns that stemmed from that. Still I don't think he's the best RB in the NFL. Stephen Jackson deserves that honor because if he had an offense around him like AD has, he'd have himself 2000+ rushing + receiving yards a season.

Saints-Tigers
09-01-2010, 03:54 AM
I still think DMC could be hugely successful in a better situation. Staying in Oakland just re-inforces the bad habits he's started to develop. I liked pretty much that entire class but IMO DMC had, and still has the highest potential. Put him behind Tennessee's OL from day one and I think DMC could've been even more dangerous than CJ2K.

As for AD I do remember a lot of people being worried about his upright running and the injury concerns that stemmed from that. Still I don't think he's the best RB in the NFL. Stephen Jackson deserves that honor because if he had an offense around him like AD has, he'd have himself 2000+ rushing + receiving yards a season.

I agree with this mostly.

I honestly think RBs are like 80-90% made by the o-line.

Marino13
09-01-2010, 09:40 AM
I know A LOT of people loved DMC, but I also thought a lot of people said that 4 was too high for him, and he was being drafted based on how much of an impact AD had as a rookie.

I also thought for sure Beanie Wells would have had a bigger cult following too.

RaiderNation
09-21-2010, 07:00 PM
Loving what I am seeing from McFadden 2 games into this season. 2nd in rushing yards to Arian Foster who had that 1 great game. If he stays healthy he could hold off Michael Bush and be our #1 guy

Gay Ork Wang
09-21-2010, 07:20 PM
And both of them will have a better career then Cutler. ;)
nom nom nom , eat the crow

Paranoidmoonduck
09-21-2010, 11:26 PM
For your consideration... (http://www.nfl.com/videos/oakland-raiders/09000d5d81ab9e67/WK-2-Darren-McFadden-Highlights)

tjsunstein
09-21-2010, 11:31 PM
McFadden is finally getting it.

Legend234
09-22-2010, 12:40 AM
people can say they didn't think McFadden would pan out because he had skinny legs and they go dead on contact, but he still tore up the SEC more so than any running back in recent memory on an average team. As a prosepct he was special and it's not hard to believe that people liked him more than Peterson if you forget about what you know about each of them now.

Mike Mayock was trying to bring McFadden down so much leading up to the draft. At one point he showed a clip of him running for a td with chad jones gaining on him and he said the player gaining on him was lb Ali Highsmith, trying to make the point that he can't be that fast if an lb who runs 4.9 is gaining on him.

BRAVEHEART
09-22-2010, 12:51 AM
people can say they didn't think McFadden would pan out because he had skinny legs and they go dead on contact, but he still tore up the SEC more so than any running back in recent memory on an average team. As a prosepct he was special and it's not hard to believe that people liked him more than Peterson if you forget about what you know about each of them now.

Mike Mayock was trying to bring McFadden down so much leading up to the draft. At one point he showed a clip of him running for a td with chad jones gaining on him and he said the player gaining on him was lb Ali Highsmith, trying to make the point that he can't be that fast if an lb who runs 4.9 is gaining on him.



That's what made him overrated. He has excellent speed but lacks wiggle, agility, COD, etc...

SEC honks hyped him too much. I'd pick J-stew over him now, or back at the draft.

Rosebud
09-22-2010, 12:57 AM
That's what made him overrated. He has excellent speed but lacks wiggle, agility, COD, etc...

SEC honks hyped him too much. I'd pick J-stew over him now, or back at the draft.

He had an incredible burst and because of that good COD skills, which is very similar to agility and wiggle... He lacked thick legs and AD's power, but he was a more complete Reggie Bush back there, except he did it all with just Felix Jones, another guy at his position, to help.

Legend234
09-22-2010, 12:58 AM
I agree that he lacked and still lacks any kinds of open field shake. I thought the same about AP not realizing that he just hadn't brought that out yet. Before he made kenoy kennedy's knees slam together with that juke I didn't know he had those and thought the same might be true about mcfadden.

BRAVEHEART
09-22-2010, 01:01 AM
He had an incredible burst and because of that good COD skills, which is very similar to agility and wiggle... He lacked thick legs and AD's power, but he was a more complete Reggie Bush back there, except he did it all with just Felix Jones, another guy at his position, to help.

Burst doesnt mean agility or wiggle...it means burst (or acceleration). McFadden's a stiff compared to AD, and no, he didn't change directions well. He outran people in straightlines.

Rosebud
09-22-2010, 02:50 AM
Burst doesnt mean agility or wiggle...it means burst (or acceleration). McFadden's a stiff compared to AD, and no, he didn't change directions well. He outran people in straightlines.

Eh, McFadden exploded out of some cuts at just nasty speeds, so I don't think it matters what you want to call it. He was very adept at using his ability to take off to leave defenders hopeless.

Shiver
09-22-2010, 05:28 AM
Darren McFadden, when healthy, is awesome. I hope he can keep it up.

brat316
09-22-2010, 05:48 AM
Don't worry he will probably get injured in a few weeks.

RaiderNation
09-29-2010, 12:15 AM
McFadden is 1 of 2 NFL players who have 120+ yds from scrimmage in all 3 games & 1 of 3 over 425 total from scrimmage. He also is 3rd in NFL in rushing yds & is only RB w/ over 90 yds in all 3 games

brat316
09-29-2010, 12:17 AM
When is he going to break down?

RaiderNation
09-29-2010, 12:33 AM
When is he going to break down?

3 games in and not any problems yet. So hopefully he wont

FloridaSkinzFan
09-29-2010, 01:03 AM
Very glad I picked up darren mcfadden in my fantasy league, I'm 3-0, in large part to his success

scottyboy
09-29-2010, 12:46 PM
he's still no raymell baby rice
/tooting my own horn

FlyingElvis
09-29-2010, 12:51 PM
I'm currently considering trading for ol' Chicken Legs in a FF league.


Hell, my friends, hath officially frozen.

yourfavestoner
09-29-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm currently considering trading for ol' Chicken Legs in a FF league.


Hell, my friends, hath officially frozen.

No it hasn't. Reggie Bush is still hurt and waiting for his breakout season.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-29-2010, 08:00 PM
No it hasn't. Reggie Bush is still hurt and waiting for his breakout season.

I drafted Bush over McFadden in a league this year.

Halsey
09-29-2010, 08:03 PM
Jerious Norwood has the most chickenest of chicken legs among NFL RBs.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-29-2010, 08:06 PM
I think McFadden's recent success shows that his problem wasn't a thin lower body, it was having a thin lower body + not keeping his pad level down. In his game against the Rams where he put up 145 and was giving defenders real big shots when they took him down, Jon Lynch was commenting how high McFadden had run when he entered the league and that he looked completely different.

To be fair, McFadden still won't run through tons of tackles, but he's breaking more arm tackles and is cutting way better (that's probably more to do with having healthy legs rather than a pad level thing).

Shiver
09-29-2010, 10:36 PM
he's still no raymell baby rice
/tooting my own horn



Your ******* Ray Rice has me at 0-3.

Brown Leader
09-29-2010, 10:49 PM
That's what made him overrated. He has excellent speed but lacks wiggle, agility, COD, etc...

SEC honks hyped him too much. I'd pick J-stew over him now, or back at the draft.

^This. **** the stats, McFadden is still sub par. A high caliber back in Oakland would be leading the league in rushing.

619
09-29-2010, 10:53 PM
^This. **** the stats, McFadden is still sub par. A high caliber back in Oakland would be leading the league in rushing.

Why is that?

Brown Leader
09-29-2010, 10:56 PM
Cuz McFadden is still not that good, yet statistically having a strong season start. Put a top caliber back like Bradshaw or B.Wells in there and figure what would happen.

619
09-29-2010, 11:00 PM
Cuz McFadden is still not that good, yet statistically having a strong season start. Put a top caliber back like Bradshaw or B.Wells in there and figure what would happen.

You're contradicting yourself, because our offensive line, particularly our run blocking, is what is subpar. What McFadden has done so far this season is remarkable, and it's all a credit to him. I'm willing to bet that neither Michael Bush, Ahmad Bradshaw, or even Beanie Wells could outproduce him under similar circumstances. It doesn't take very long for his sublime talent to jump off the screen. The guy can do it ALL (and that even means lay out a nasty block from time to time).

scottyboy
09-29-2010, 11:01 PM
Your ******* Ray Rice has me at 0-3.

week one was vs the Jets, you know that wasn't getting him many points.
2 and 3 are because the Ravens insist on Flacco airing it out and only giving Raymell like 15 carries and NEVER give him goal line carries. stupid Ravens.

619
09-29-2010, 11:02 PM
Raymell misses Hue Jackson already. Not surprised. :)

lowlife
09-29-2010, 11:05 PM
Cuz McFadden is still not that good, yet statistically having a strong season start. Put a top caliber back like Bradshaw or B.Wells in there and figure what would happen.

Top caliber back...Bradshaw...B.Wells.

Was all that in one sentence or was it a series of run-ons ##%@!@#% me?

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2010, 11:19 PM
I think McFadden's recent success shows that his problem wasn't a thin lower body, it was having a thin lower body + not keeping his pad level down. In his game against the Rams where he put up 145 and was giving defenders real big shots when they took him down, Jon Lynch was commenting how high McFadden had run when he entered the league and that he looked completely different.

To be fair, McFadden still won't run through tons of tackles, but he's breaking more arm tackles and is cutting way better (that's probably more to do with having healthy legs rather than a pad level thing).


+1.

Seems like when a top RB prospect has struggles, people want to make it seem way worse than it is, like they are unfixable.

though, QBs, it's always the position they were put in.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-29-2010, 11:25 PM
McFadden's just been doing what I hoped he'd do immediately upon arrival: picking a hole, staying low and making one big cut, and then accelerating. I was never expecting him to be the kind of player who juked defenders, that's not his game.

That said, his struggles the last two years haven't diminished his considerable talent. At this pace, he's going to have eclipsed his previous best in rushing yards by week 5. It's not like Oakland's offensive line is good (like...at all). They don't even have Gallery right now, who's the only guy even remotely capable of steam rolling defenders (unless the team wises up and moves Walker to guard).

He's capable of being such a good one-cut runner. Here's hoping he can stay healthy.

Saints-Tigers
09-29-2010, 11:35 PM
Yea, he's a great player, I'd like to see him keep healthy too. I'd love to snag Michael Bush off you guys too, so lets do something with that.

wogitalia
09-30-2010, 01:09 AM
It's funny that McFadden looks like a skinny WR playing RB, his body just doesn't look right at RB.

Great start to the year for him, hope he can keep it up as the Raiders need all the help they can get!

LonghornsLegend
09-30-2010, 04:44 AM
Health. That's still my biggest concern with him, not talent. If he's still going strong by week 8 I'll be impressed, hell I felt he could have been doing this as a rookie if he wasn't banged up so often. He's getting more carries and touches now, let's see if he can stay durable though at least half of a season.


I don't think he will stay healthy, and I bet when he does get banged up, or injured, someone will say it's a freak injury and he's not injury prone. I really like what he's done so far this season, but his lower body is still skinny and will lead to injuries.

Brown Leader
09-30-2010, 05:23 AM
It's really not about his lower half being thin. Look at CJ or JCharles, proportionately similar to DM or really any of the successful taller angular backs. He's simply not strong or maby saying he doesn't run with leverage is more approp.-but he leaves alot of yards out there.
You're contradicting yourself, because our offensive line, particularly our run blocking, is what is subpar. What McFadden has done so far this season is remarkable, and it's all a credit to him. I'm willing to bet that neither Michael Bush, Ahmad Bradshaw, or even Beanie Wells could outproduce him under similar circumstances. It doesn't take very long for his sublime talent to jump off the screen. The guy can do it ALL (and that even means lay out a nasty block from time to time).
I was under the impression that the one thing the Raiders line could do, was run block. In any case, I've seen a bit of DM this season and he looks more decisive and physical, obviously healthy, and getting a chance to show his speed at the second level. But as I see it, a shiftier back capable of breaking the first tackler or making him miss would be racking up even more yards.
Top caliber back...Bradshaw...B.Wells.

Was all that in one sentence or was it a series of run-ons ##%@!@#% me?
Yea I'd say Wells and Bradshaw are in top ten of most talented backs in the league.

Rosebud
09-30-2010, 06:13 AM
It's really not about his lower half being thin. Look at CJ or JCharles, proportionately similar to DM or really any of the successful taller angular backs. He's simply not strong or maby saying he doesn't run with leverage is more approp.-but he leaves alot of yards out there.

I was under the impression that the one thing the Raiders line could do, was run block. In any case, I've seen a bit of DM this season and he looks more decisive and physical, obviously healthy, and getting a chance to show his speed at the second level. But as I see it, a shiftier back capable of breaking the first tackler or making him miss would be racking up even more yards.

Yea I'd say Wells and Bradshaw are in top ten of most talented backs in the league.

Stephen Jackson
Adrian Peterson
Chris Johnson

MJD
Ray Rice
Frank Gore
Jamal Charles
DeAngelo Williams
Reshard Mendenhall
Ricky Williams

There's 10 backs better than Beanie for sure and better than Ahmad as well, although Ahmad is around this area and could conceivably surpass some of those guys this year as he has a lot of MJD in him, without quite so much deep speed.

If you want me to keep going though Jonathon Stewart, Fred Jackson, Run DMC, Michael Turner, Felix Jones and Cedric Benson are guys I'd take before Beanie for now and each of them has somewhat of a case on Ahmad as well.

And I'm a giants fan who loves watching Ahmad run, he's so insanely tough to take down because he runs low, he runs super hard and he really bounces off of tacklers. His biggest problem is he'll fight for that extra yard every time, which means there will be times were he's being held up and instead of going down he'll be trying to push his way forward so that other defenders can run up and strip the ball. So I'm not going to say Ahmad isn't a stud, but he's not clearly a top 10 RB at this point.

AntoinCD
09-30-2010, 06:15 AM
Yea I'd say Wells and Bradshaw are in top ten of most talented backs in the league.

Really???

Adrian Peterson
Steven Jackson
Chris Johnson
MJD
Ray Rice
Cedric Benson
Ronnie Brown
Ricky Williams
Marshawn Lynch
Fred Jackson
Michael Turner
Jamaal Charles
Thomas Jones
Deangelo Williams
Jonathon Stewart
Frank Gore
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Darren McFadden

Those are in no order and im not specifically saying all are better and/or more talented than Beanie or Bradshaw but I could comfortably pick at least 10 who I would be happy to definitively say are

RaiderNation
10-04-2010, 05:19 PM
Pulled a hammy :( Still tied for 3rd in the league in rushing. Hopefully he can bounce back

PoopSandwich
10-04-2010, 05:29 PM
Really???

Adrian Peterson
Steven Jackson
Chris Johnson
MJD
Ray Rice
Cedric Benson
Ronnie Brown
Ricky Williams
Marshawn Lynch
Fred Jackson
Michael Turner
Jamaal Charles
Thomas Jones
Deangelo Williams
Jonathon Stewart
Frank Gore
Marion Barber
Felix Jones
Darren McFadden

Those are in no order and im not specifically saying all are better and/or more talented than Beanie or Bradshaw but I could comfortably pick at least 10 who I would be happy to definitively say are

Really? I don't know about that.

Rosebud
10-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Really? I don't know about that.

Ricky Williams definitely and Fred Jackson over Beanie but not Ahmad.

LonghornsLegend
10-15-2010, 01:59 PM
Health. That's still my biggest concern with him, not talent. If he's still going strong by week 8 I'll be impressed, let's see if he can stay durable though at least half of a season.


I don't think he will stay healthy, and I bet when he does get banged up, or injured, someone will say it's a freak injury and he's not injury prone. I really like what he's done so far this season, but his lower body is still skinny and will lead to injuries.


Well, he couldn't even make it 8 games into the season, looks like he'll miss another game and I guarantee when he does return it'll be another nagging injury that follows.


I think he's shown he has the talent to play, but you can't expect to play RB if your going to be on the shelf every handful of games.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-15-2010, 02:50 PM
Even with D-mac back from injury I think Bush gets more carries.

yourfavestoner
10-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Even with D-mac back from injury I think Bush gets more carries.

I read somewhere that every time the Raiders have given Michael Bush at least 14 touches, he's averaged like 18 fantasy points per game. I didn't like him at all as a prospect, but he does nothing but produce. Dude needs to get the ball.

RaiderNation
10-15-2010, 03:39 PM
I read somewhere that every time the Raiders have given Michael Bush at least 14 touches, he's averaged like 18 fantasy points per game. I didn't like him at all as a prospect, but he does nothing but produce. Dude needs to get the ball.

Yup, we just seem to not like giving him the ball or that we are so far behind we cant run the ball.

I expect Bush to get the bulk of the carries this Sunday, even though DMC is expected to play. Bush with around 15 carries and DMC around 10 sounds fine with me. Plus DMC in the passing game is deadly

bigbuc
10-25-2010, 04:33 PM
How good of a game this this guy have yesterday! That run where he shot out the stiff arm and took it to the house. Great play. Happy to see he's doing well. Sometimes it just takes guys a little longer to come around.

M.O.T.H.
10-25-2010, 04:35 PM
Obviously, he's all the elite talent, he was touted to be. Problem will just be staying healthy. Sky is the limit.

Showing why I would have traded Dallas' whole draft for him a few years ago. lol.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-25-2010, 04:38 PM
That one 57-yard run was the first time I saw McFadden look just like he did at Arkansas. One little cut behind the line then he just strode through that defense with a few route adjustments and a good stiff arm.

The real news with McFadden this year has been his pad level (he's running through tackles and making defenders pay for sitting in his way) and his agility. He made a lot of defenders miss yesterday, more than he probably made miss his entire first two years in the NFL.

Also, he's 2nd in the NFL in RYPG right now. Yeah.

edit - In case anyone hasn't seen it: http://www.nfl.com/videos/oakland-raiders/09000d5d81b96b0c/Week-7-Darren-McFadden-highlights

LonghornsLegend
10-25-2010, 04:39 PM
I'd still rather take Jenkins and Felix over him(even though I wanted CJ bad as ever) but we would have been in shambles not picking up an elite corner that year. It would have made sense if we didn't have any other immediate needs at the time but CB was one of them because Anthony Henry was garbage truck juice and Newman was/is always getting hurt.


I think DMac can be one of the best in the league, but I'd make a bet with anyone here he missed multiple games from this point on for one thing or another. But exciting part is he looks worth that pick, and like he belongs as a true RB.


Bush has never looked the part of an elite RB, just a great skill player and effective if used properly, McFadden can be a dominant actual RB and his skills translated pretty good.

M.O.T.H.
10-25-2010, 04:44 PM
I'd still rather take Jenkins and Felix over him(even though I wanted CJ bad as ever) but we would have been in shambles not picking up an elite corner that year. It would have made sense if we didn't have any other immediate needs at the time but CB was one of them because Anthony Henry was garbage truck juice and Newman was/is always getting hurt.


I think DMac can be one of the best in the league, but I'd make a bet with anyone here he missed multiple games from this point on for one thing or another.

Well...I knew trading for D-MAC was a fantasy, we didnt have the fire power to make that move. I'm sure you remember me screaming for both Felix and Jenkins leading up to the draft. So, it worked out ideally for me anyway. I liked CJ, just didnt think he'd end up like so. lol. I didnt prefer his game to Jones' at all. But yeah, I was ecstatic at how things played out. I didnt hate the Bennett pick in round 2, but felt we could have def. went elsewhere. Pretty much the standard opinion on that pick. That was a fantastic draft, though.

RaiderNation
10-25-2010, 04:44 PM
Ya my boy DMC is the real deal. So happy with what I saw yesterday from him and the whole team. Stay healthy, and you will be a top 5 RB in this league for awhile. He turned 23 in August.... this guy has alot of years left

vidae
10-25-2010, 04:45 PM
I wonder how our rush D will stack up against McFadden. Dude is a straight beast. I'm worried about playing him.

Not to mention the fact that we get to play him twice a year for at least the next 5-7 years. Hooray. ;)

Paranoidmoonduck
10-25-2010, 04:48 PM
I agree to some degree, but Bush is a bit underrated because few people have seen his good games. He's not explosive like McFadden, but he's very agile for his size, is a great receiver, very powerful inside runner, gives an amazing second effort after contact, and is a great blocker in the backfield. He's like a poor man's Steven Jackson in a lot of ways. If McFadden had never managed to make it on the field consistently, I would have had no issue with Bush being Oakland's top runner.

If he makes it to the free agency market after this year, he should be a hot commodity.

LonghornsLegend
10-25-2010, 04:50 PM
Well...I knew trading for D-MAC was a fantasy, we didnt have the fire power to make that move. I'm sure you remember me screaming for both Felix and Jenkins leading up to the draft. So, it worked out ideally for me anyway. I liked CJ, just didnt think he'd end up like so. lol. I didnt prefer his game to Jones' at all. But yeah, I was ecstatic at how things played out. I didnt hate the Bennett pick in round 2, but felt we could have def. went elsewhere. Pretty much the standard opinion on that pick. That was a fantastic draft, though.



Well, two 1st and a 2nd would have been easily enough right? Had we known we would have gotten Bennett in the 2nd I'da been up for it but that's purely hindsight especially considering if we did it we would have been talking about guys like Desean Jackson and Jamaal Charles going in that range.


I felt he would be good, but did I think he would be just on another level, or tier above Felix, Chris Johnson, and Jamaal Charles? And enough to miss out on Brandon Flowers or Mike Jenkins? That was the big thing. I'm sure we could have made it work, but considering how unhealthy DMac has been his entire career, and how bad of shape we would have been in by missing out a CB it would have been a huge disaster.

MetSox17
10-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Oh how i wish we would have taken Jamaal Charles instead of Felix Jones. *sighs*

SeanTaylorRIP
10-25-2010, 04:54 PM
RB is the least of the Cowboys problems.

M.O.T.H.
10-25-2010, 04:57 PM
Well, two 1st and a 2nd would have been easily enough right? Had we known we would have gotten Bennett in the 2nd I'da been up for it but that's purely hindsight especially considering if we did it we would have been talking about guys like Desean Jackson and Jamaal Charles going in that range.


I felt he would be good, but did I think he would be just on another level, or tier above Felix, Chris Johnson, and Jamaal Charles? And enough to miss out on Brandon Flowers or Mike Jenkins? That was the big thing. I'm sure we could have made it work, but considering how unhealthy DMac has been his entire career, and how bad of shape we would have been in by missing out a CB it would have been a huge disaster.

They were later 1sts...we had to get into the top 5. You dont see moves like that too often. I dont think it even added up, even with the ever changing trade value chart. It was just more of a dream scenario, more than anything. I wanted to trade the house for AD, back in the day, as well. The actual chances of such a move...pretty minute.

As for CJ, I def. judged level of competition a little too heavily. But, I really didnt have any doubts about Felix. Turns out, you could have picked any name out of a hat, and still landed a fantastic RB that year.

Again though, I absolutely loved how it played out. I absolutely loved both players that we got in the 1st. Felix was my favorite RB for our team, outside of DMAC. And I was a very close follower of Jenkins career, ever since he was a pup. He was just an outstanding prospect, who was a god damn joy to watch in college, and didnt deserve to fall as far as he did.

M.O.T.H.
10-25-2010, 04:59 PM
RB is the least of the Cowboys problems.

We're talking years ago. I'm an enormous Felix Jones fan. haha. We had some great RB discussions leading up to that draft.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-25-2010, 05:06 PM
08 RB Draft class is absolutely disgusting, even guys like Kevin Smith and Slaton had 1000 yard seasons. If you didnít get a RB in 08 you missed out.

4. Darren McFadden
13. Jonathan Stewart
22. Felix Jones
23. Rashard Mendenhall
24. Chris Johnson
44. Matt Forte
55. Ray Rice
64. Kevin Smith
73. Jamaal Charles
89. Steve Slaton
122. Tashard Choice
139. Ryan Torrain
149. Tim Hightower
176. Jalen Parmele
202. Mike Hart
233. Justin Forsett

Undrafted RBís:
Benjarvus Green-Ellis
Danny Woodhead
Clifton Smith

Saints-Tigers
10-25-2010, 07:38 PM
Funny how good chicken leg RBs look when they are fully healthy.

RaiderNation
11-01-2010, 02:55 PM
He is 1st in the league with 111.3 rushing yards per game, 6th in rushing yards(missed 2 games), tied for 11th with 4 rushing tds, 1st in league with total yards, has 5.5 ypc. Is a MVP candidate in my eyes right now if we continue to keep winning.

Brown Leader
11-01-2010, 07:10 PM
Some ******* idiot a few pages back said McFadden doesn't make the first guy miss and leaves a lot of yards on the field...What a dumbass..this guy leads the league in yards after contact. :D

yourfavestoner
11-01-2010, 07:42 PM
I am fully willing to admit that I was wrong as **** about this guy. He's fully healthy and finally turning into the player he was at Arkansas.

K Train
11-02-2010, 10:22 PM
08 RB Draft class is absolutely disgusting, even guys like Kevin Smith and Slaton had 1000 yard seasons. If you didnít get a RB in 08 you missed out.

4. Darren McFadden
13. Jonathan Stewart
22. Felix Jones
23. Rashard Mendenhall
24. Chris Johnson
44. Matt Forte
55. Ray Rice
64. Kevin Smith
73. Jamaal Charles
89. Steve Slaton
122. Tashard Choice
139. Ryan Torrain
149. Tim Hightower
176. Jalen Parmele
202. Mike Hart
233. Justin Forsett

Undrafted RBís:
Benjarvus Green-Ellis
Danny Woodhead
Clifton Smith
jalen parmele is the only guy on the list that is a nobody...thats amazing

T-RICH49
11-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Oh how i wish we would have taken Jamaal Charles instead of Felix Jones. *sighs*

Oh how I'm glad you did'nt.Thank God for Jerry's fascination with his alme mater

J-Mike88
11-02-2010, 10:52 PM
Where is Raider Nation here?
I am watching the replay of the 49ers-Raiders game here.

I was, and still am, expecting big things from Darren McFadden.
What he did vs the SEC at Arkansas was spectacular. It was no mirage.
And still I wasn't able to get Run DMC in my own Fantasy Football draft!

619
11-02-2010, 10:55 PM
Oh how I'm glad you did'nt.Thank God for Jerry's fascination with his alme mater

That's all it was. CJ was the superior change-of-pace/combo back at the time (if anyone bothered to watch the film...), and Mendenhall was rated as the top back on more than a few teams' boards. Jerry's antics never fails to amuse me.

SenorGato
11-02-2010, 11:11 PM
I am fully willing to admit that I was wrong as **** about this guy. He's fully healthy and finally turning into the player he was at Arkansas.

+1

I thought his little girl legs would kill him.

619
11-02-2010, 11:15 PM
+1

I thought his little girl legs would kill him.

I was more worried from watching Raider games that he'd never be able to 'shake his hips' and get to the second level of defenses. We all know what he can do once in the open field.

vidae
11-02-2010, 11:15 PM
Yeah, real nice of him to start kicking ass now. I'm so excited to play him twice a year.

619
11-02-2010, 11:18 PM
Yeah, real nice of him to start kicking ass now. I'm so excited to play him twice a year.

I wonder if McFadden's been watching tape of Charles, or if it's the other way around. ;)

Both teams are becoming loaded with great physical talents. It's awesome!

MetSox17
11-03-2010, 02:07 AM
Charles > McFadden

Saints-Tigers
11-03-2010, 02:17 AM
Thin legs and lack of lower body power can get you in trouble when you get hit before you really can start moving, like getting hit in the backfield.

But if your offensive line is letting your backs get hit before they are moving on a consistent basis, you have bigger issues anyway.

McFadden might not blow guys away that get to him before he really gets churning, but he's special in the open field. I truly believe that it's the lines job to get the running back past the first level, so whether or not a guy can drag linemen for 3 yards really doesn't mean much to me, I want the guy that can make things happen in the open.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-03-2010, 02:18 AM
Charles > McFadden

Says the Texas fan...

Kurve
11-03-2010, 06:27 AM
I will have to say i think DMAC has worked his lower body more his legs seem to be much thicker then his rookie year.

M.O.T.H.
11-03-2010, 07:47 AM
That's all it was. CJ was the superior change-of-pace/combo back at the time (if anyone bothered to watch the film...), and Mendenhall was rated as the top back on more than a few teams' boards. Jerry's antics never fails to amuse me.

You know how many Arkansas players are on Dallas? One.

And Felix Jones was widely viewed as the superior talent. The fact that Chris played for ECU didnt help his case. As for the pick itself...Felix was getting fringe 1st round grades and the Titans were enamored with him, just a few picks after us. He went in a fine range...the fact that we passed on Mendenhall made sense. He was similar to Marion,to a point. Felix added the different dimension they were looking for. A speed back that could compliment Barber, help in the return game, and line up all over the field. And Jason Garrett, not Jerry Jones, seemed to steamhead the Felix camp. Which is surprising, because he never used the guy properly for years...but anyway, Garrett really wanted Felix. It came down to Jones/Mendenhall...no mention of CJ, who was getting 2nd round grades, and we took the better fit for the team and the scheme. At the time, Barber was still a great back, and they were looking for a dynamic complimnent to his powerful running style. I absolutely loved the pick, myself.

But anyway...you know what CJ/Mendenhall would do for this team today? Absolutely nothing, we probably have the worst run blocking offensive line in the league. It's pathetic. I hate Garrett...but i dont even blame him for not trying to establish the run anymore...because it's not going to happen. Our backs are getting crushed in the backfield. I dont care who our RB would be right now, they're not doing anything behind that line.

BuddyCHRIST
11-03-2010, 09:11 AM
I'm really glad DMAC is starting to produce, people use such revisionist history on hating him as a prospect. He's been in the most defunct franchise in the NFL with the worst QB play and has battled injuries. People forget how dominant he was in college, and he was doing it against the SEC when the SEC was as good as its been.

Now I'm tooting my own horn because I've always been a big fan of his, and he's on my fantasy team. But still, he's awesome.

Sniper
11-03-2010, 09:58 AM
He's been in the most defunct franchise in the NFL with the worst QB play

For the record, there is a difference between defunct and dysfunctional.

Ėadjective
1. no longer in effect or use; not operating or functioning: a defunct law; a defunct organization.
2. no longer in existence; dead; extinct: a defunct person; a defunct tribe of Indians.
Ėnoun
3. the defunct, the dead person referred to: the survivors of the defunct.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-03-2010, 10:05 AM
For a while though, the Raiders weren't far from being "no longer in use" at least from a practical standpoint...