The Official New York Knicks Team Discussion Thread

[bigbluedefense]

Hey, I'll be rooting for them big time when the get in the playoffs. It's the NBA and a seven game series so you never know who will step up and put up a great performance. I think they can make some noise, but I'm not quite convinced they will make the Finals this year.

Also, I think Chicago is a little tougher than you're letting on. Boozer isn't just a tough role player, he's a good scorer/rebounder. Pretty good second option for them as well. Not to mention they play great defense.

I love their coach. Very underrated. Reminds me of Jeff Van Gundy. Like Jeff, he needs a basketball equivalent of an offensive coordinator though.

We have trouble with big guys with girth. That Chicago front court isn't big enough to beat us up.

[Giantsfan1080]

The Knicks bench looks much stronger post trade.

[bigbluedefense]

The Knicks bench looks much stronger post trade.

Role players are role players. I've been saying it forever. The bench is actually worse than before the trade, but bc we have more talent on the court with Melo now, those role players are able to look better bc the floor opens up for them.

That's why I don't give a damn about the bench. You can always find role players. If we didn't get Melo bc we fell in love with some scrub on the bench, I would've been pissed.

[Forenci]

Role players are role players. I've been saying it forever. The bench is actually worse than before the trade, but bc we have more talent on the court with Melo now, those role players are able to look better bc the floor opens up for them.

That's why I don't give a damn about the bench. You can always find role players. If we didn't get Melo bc we fell in love with some scrub on the bench, I would've been pissed.

We didn't just give up scrubs though, we gave up players who could start and guys who could easily go for 20+ on any given night. That's not a roleplayer.

Our bench is okay (they're playing way over their heads atm) but it's finding the starting center (Mozgof) a really good third option (Gallo/Chandler) which is going to be difficult. Hopefully we get Deron or CP3 and finding a third option becomes a moot point.

Again, I'm not going to rehash the argument because I'm happy Melo is here, but we're still several key players and a bench away from realistically competing for a title.

[Giantsfan1080]

That was also one of the smoothest game winning shots I've seen in a while.

How have Chandler and Gallo been for Denver?

[Forenci]

That was also one of the smoothest game winning shots I've seen in a while.

How have Chandler and Gallo been for Denver?

Gallo has been hurt, but he did well in the time he was there. Chandler has been pretty solid. Up and down, as he usually is. Nuggets have been winning a lot of games since Melo has left though.

[bigbluedefense]

Gallo is hurt, Chandler I think is doing ok. Nothing to lose sleep over.

Jeffries play has allowed me to not miss Mozgov as much as I originally did. He's rotting on their bench too, who knows, maybe we can get him back some how?

[bigbluedefense]

We didn't just give up scrubs though, we gave up players who could start and guys who could easily go for 20+ on any given night. That's not a roleplayer.

Our bench is okay (they're playing way over their heads atm) but it's finding the starting center (Mozgof) a really good third option (Gallo/Chandler) which is going to be difficult. Hopefully we get Deron or CP3 and finding a third option becomes a moot point.

Again, I'm not going to rehash the argument because I'm happy Melo is here, but we're still several key players and a bench away from realistically competing for a title.

I'm confident we'll land 1 of the 2. My guess is CP3.

[bigbluedefense]

Well...I guess the Knicks picked a good time to become relevant again.

I'm not a baseball fan so this is all I have until football comes back.


And wasn't it just great that the Knicks increased ticket prices for 2012 by an average of 49%? That's just fantastic.

I guess my trips to the Garden are going to dramaticaly decrease now.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm starting to get annoyed with the effort of this team. It's almost like they're sleep walking and just want the playoffs to start already.

And Dougie is significantly better than Billups at running point right now. When Chauncey runs the point, the ball stops moving, it's just a bunch of iso plays and bad choice 3s by him, when Dougie runs point we actually pass the ball around.

We lost last night bc of terrible defense, but also bc D'Antoni put Chauncey back in the game with 3 minutes to go, and our offense stalled with the lead.

I think moving forward, Douglas should run point, Chauncey should be a 2 guard who splits time with Fields. Unless he develops his chemistry quickly, we're a better team with Douglas running the point bc Chauncey just doesn't have any chemistry with anybody right now.

I'm not concerned about the record, I expect us to go .500 for the rest of the season bc it's going to take time for these guys to understand each other, but I want to see more progress from Billups. I know it will take time and he just came back and he's still hurt, but 2 losses to the Pacers back to back is annoying.

Especially when we play like that on defense. Unacceptable. They gotta get it together and play with some urgency.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Douglas has no business being the starting PG. Gotta stick with Billups.

[bigbluedefense]

Dougie hasn't been bad at PG recently. Billups is going to need the full 18 or so games left to understand this offense.

[Forenci]

Dougie hasn't been bad at PG recently. Billups is going to need the full 18 or so games left to understand this offense.

Douglas is a glorified shooting guard. He's not a great passer. Even when he's struggling miserably at shooting he will still chuck it up.

Douglas can have a role on this team, but it's going to be off the bench as a guy who can give some some scoring now and then but mainly for his defense.

We desperately need a PG. If we don't get Paul or Williams we're going to be pretty screwed.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm telling you guys, I think right here right now Douglass is a significantly better PG than Billups. Billups just looks lost out there right now. The offense doesn't move, he doesn't find Stat on the pick and roll, he doesn't find Melo, he keeps trying to feed Jeffries (wtf?). He just looks lost out there.

I'm not going to make much out of last night's game. When you hit that many 3s, you're going to win.

It does seem like the Knicks play zone a lot better than they do man. I'm personally not a fan of zone defense, but beggers can't be choosers. If this team plays better D in zone, then run zone.

We don't have enough defensive talent to run man D.

[Forenci]

If he's a better PG than Billups it's a tribute to the fact how bad Billups is, and not how good Douglas is. Douglas is an extremely inconsistent 2. He has nights where he can't miss and nights where he'll shoot the ball 10-12 times and hit one shot.

He just needs to learn better shot selection, and to learn that when he's not feeling it he has to take fewer shots, pass the ball, and play good defense.

[bigbluedefense]

Billups has been atrocious since he came back from injury. Terrible bounce passes into traffic, he can't find Stat at all in the pick and roll, he keeps trying to feed Jeffries, bad spot up 3s, lack of ball movement.

He's just been awful.

[Rosebud]

I'm telling you guys, I think right here right now Douglass is a significantly better PG than Billups. Billups just looks lost out there right now. The offense doesn't move, he doesn't find Stat on the pick and roll, he doesn't find Melo, he keeps trying to feed Jeffries (wtf?). He just looks lost out there.

I'm not going to make much out of last night's game. When you hit that many 3s, you're going to win.

It does seem like the Knicks play zone a lot better than they do man. I'm personally not a fan of zone defense, but beggers can't be choosers. If this team plays better D in zone, then run zone.

We don't have enough defensive talent to run man D.

It tooks Felts a good dozen games to lock into Amar'e on the PnR to, our young players aren't going to improve enough between now and the playoffs for us to force Dougie into a role that's too big for him. Ride it out with Billups so that he can find his zone with Amar'e by the playoffs and hopefully Dougie keeps up his good play. I like the kid he's just shown that his instincts are those of a scorer, not a passer. He's better but coming off the bench to back up a vet like Billups helps him there, me thinks.

We gave up our chance to be a versatile team that can kill you in many ways to get Melo and Billups here, we have no choice but to get it to work because the only way we get better from here is hoping that Paul or Deron force their teams to trade them to us for Fields, and that's not happening before the playoffs start.

[bigbluedefense]

The team is soft. In the final 3 minutes, the team implodes for the following reasons:

1. Billups. He can't run point, and he cripples our offense. The offense stops moving during the most crucial part of the game.

2. D'Antoni's substitutions. Ok, we already established Billups. But why Shawn Williams? Why are we going all out offense in the final 3 minutes when that's the time when you need to D up? This is why teams make late game runs on us and beat us. Bc we don't D up during the most crucial part of the game, and part of that is bc of the lineup.

3. Soft. Let's face it, without a presence in the middle, this team is soft. Teams shoot like 70% from the field during the final 3 minutes against us. When we need to toughen up and play D to keep the lead, this team folds up.

Overall, you can see the overall defense has improved, the zone defense we run has helped, but we don't have that killer instinct on defense. The team bitches up when a team like Boston muscles up in the final 3 minutes of the game, bc they're tough, and we're soft.

I think next year, we need to let go of Billups, sign a serviceable PG for like 5 mill a year, and use some of the rest of the money to get a Center.

I think plan A moving forward is obviously CP3, but if that doesn't happen, plan B needs to be a quality Center and Raymond Felton in 2012-2013.

[Forenci]

The team is soft. In the final 3 minutes, the team implodes for the following reasons:

1. Billups. He can't run point, and he cripples our offense. The offense stops moving during the most crucial part of the game.

2. D'Antoni's substitutions. Ok, we already established Billups. But why Shawn Williams? Why are we going all out offense in the final 3 minutes when that's the time when you need to D up? This is why teams make late game runs on us and beat us. Bc we don't D up during the most crucial part of the game, and part of that is bc of the lineup.

3. Soft. Let's face it, without a presence in the middle, this team is soft. Teams shoot like 70% from the field during the final 3 minutes against us. When we need to toughen up and play D to keep the lead, this team folds up.

Overall, you can see the overall defense has improved, the zone defense we run has helped, but we don't have that killer instinct on defense. The team bitches up when a team like Boston muscles up in the final 3 minutes of the game, bc they're tough, and we're soft.

I think next year, we need to let go of Billups, sign a serviceable PG for like 5 mill a year, and use some of the rest of the money to get a Center.

I think plan A moving forward is obviously CP3, but if that doesn't happen, plan B needs to be a quality Center and Raymond Felton in 2012-2013.

Eh, we're better off keeping Billups, if only for his expiring contract that we'd get next year. I don't think we'll fire D'Antoni, but if we did, Billups would be much more useful (assuming we brought in a defensive minded coach). His problem is he's a half-court guard playing in a fastbreak offense. He still can put up points, though. Plus, I don't see another option for PG going into next year outside of Billups.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem right now is Melo and Stat aren't very good at playing on the court at the same time. Without a real PG they both will dominate the ball and have to create for themselves. The good news is, unlike Dwyane Wade or LeBron James, they can score off the ball when they have a good distributor delivering them the basketball. The bad news is, unlike Wade or James, neither Carmelo or Stat is able to create for others.

That's why missing out on LeBron really hurt. He'd have solved two problems for us: a need for a dominant scorer/legit superstar and the need for a player who can create. Felton did that pretty well too (the passing part), but his issue was lack of consistent scoring.

[bigbluedefense]

I know D'Antoni will get another year (and rightfully so, it's not fair to him if they pull the plug on him this year).

That said, I don't like him as a coach. I don't believe in his brand of basketball.

Firing him for the sake of firing him won't necessarily solve our problems though.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm really concerned about Stoudemire. He has no lift in his legs, his explosion is completely gone. He's done. He's running on fumes bc D'Antoni ran him into the ground.

I don't know if he has enough left in the tank for us to do anything in the playoffs anymore. I'm very concerned about this.

[thenewfeature06]

STAT will be fine, I know he has logged tons of minutes throughout his career along with the injuries here and there but if he is doing what he should be, as far as stretching and all that rehabilitation then I believe he'll be ok.

He is 28 right now.

[bigbluedefense]

STAT will be fine, I know he has logged tons of minutes throughout his career along with the injuries here and there but if he is doing what he should be, as far as stretching and all that rehabilitation then I believe he'll be ok.

He is 28 right now.

Im not worried that he's done for good, I'm just worried that he ran out of gas for the rest of the season.

I know he'll be back to form next year after an offseason of rest, and hopefully D'Antoni keeps his minutes down next season, but this season worries me. He might be hiding an injury too.

[thenewfeature06]

Alright I gotcha now.. I would hope he is smart enough to voice himself if he is tired/hurt.

[bigbluedefense]

What do you think of Sheldon Williams? I liked the muscle he brought inside.

[thenewfeature06]

Your asking me? Haha hate him.

no but your right he does serve that purpose... strong and not a bad defender.

[bigbluedefense]

He looks like he has downs. But the guy gives us some muscle, which we need. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Jeffries rotate.

We need to use a committee at Center. Use Shawne to sub in for Stat, and use Jeffries, Sheldon, Ronny rotation at Center.

[thenewfeature06]

Yeah I like that idea, change the look for the opposing team.

All 3 of them for center are slightly undersized but if they play big then we shouldn't have a problem with anybody besides Orlando.

[bigbluedefense]

We know D'Antoni won't do this though. He rather go all out offense. Especially to close the game.

That's a big reason for our losing streak. Instead of putting some defenders out there to close the game, he goes all out offense.

[Damix]

D'Antoni says he'll give Stat some games off once we clinch. I'd give him every game off other then 20 min in the last game.

[TheFinisher]

Good win tonight, not much to say other then when this team brings intensity it's night and day. Also nice to see Carter getting some more minutes, he does a nice job of maintaining the flow on offense.

How about Melo the past few nights? 39, 39 and 36.

EDIT: Shelden deserves a shout out as well, hopefully he can keep giving us solid minutes down the stretch.

[TheFinisher]

He looks like he has downs. But the guy gives us some muscle, which we need. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Jeffries rotate.

We need to use a committee at Center. Use Shawne to sub in for Stat, and use Jeffries, Sheldon, Ronny rotation at Center.

lmao. that's part of the reason why I pull for the guy, I view him as the special ed kid in class who you feel bad for but there's a sense of epic win when something goes his way.

[bigbluedefense]

Good win tonight, not much to say other then when this team brings intensity it's night and day. Also nice to see Carter getting some more minutes, he does a nice job of maintaining the flow on offense.

How about Melo the past few nights? 39, 39 and 36.

EDIT: Shelden deserves a shout out as well, hopefully he can keep giving us solid minutes down the stretch.

I'm torn. I'm happy with the W, but the first half defense was atrocious, and it shouldn't come down to Billups ripping the team at half time for them to get it together.

Plus, I'm still not a fan of how Billups runs the point.

Plus...1 rebound Stat? Really? His legs are so shot. We NEED to rest him. Just ride out Melo for 3 more games so we can clinch and rest Stat for the rest of the season.

But a win is a win, and as you said, Sheldon has been a nice surprise lately.

[bigbluedefense]

Defense is improving. Chemistry is improving.

Melo is establishing himself as the 1A scorer, Stat is taking a back seat to him.

Now we need to rest Stoudemire and just go into the playoffs fresh and rested.

[BaLLiN]

Anyone really like Mikel Leshoure? im just curious because he's lookin more and more attractive at our 2nd round pick if he lasts that long.

[TheFinisher]

Anyone really like Mikel Leshoure? im just curious because he's lookin more and more attractive at our 2nd round pick if he lasts that long.

Not me, he doesn't play any defense.

On a serious note, we're peaking at the right time. The 90s Knick fan in me wants us to draw Miami, because I'll always hate Pat Riley. Melo owns Lebron and they don't have a frontcourt that can expose us. It's time for Billups to step up, if we want to be serious about making a run (and I think we can) he's gotta be a legitimate 3rd threat every night.

[BaLLiN]

lol my bad, i didnt realize it was the wrong thread

[bigbluedefense]

Not me, he doesn't play any defense.

On a serious note, we're peaking at the right time. The 90s Knick fan in me wants us to draw Miami, because I'll always hate Pat Riley. Melo owns Lebron and they don't have a frontcourt that can expose us. It's time for Billups to step up, if we want to be serious about making a run (and I think we can) he's gotta be a legitimate 3rd threat every night.

I tell you what....I think we have a shot. I really do. It's going to be hard, but seriously, why not us?

Why not us? We don't have to worry about Dwight Howard, and the road to Chicago goes through Miami and Boston, both of whom have big man issues right now.

They both scare me a lot bc I think they're the 2 best teams in the East, but we have a puncher's chance against both of them.

And our defense has gradually improved. Why not us?

I've been saying it ever since we traded for Melo. Why not us? We have a chance.

[bigbluedefense]

We can always believe. You gotta believe!

Realistically...we lose in 6. But you never know. I know I'll be rooting hard. The road to the Finals is tough for us, we have to go through Boston, then Miami, then Chicago. Serious doubts about that, but I look at this round of playoffs as a learning experience for Melo and Stat.

Get that experience together, feel the intensity of a NY playoff atmosphere, and get back on it next year. In the mean time, gotta believe. I'm rockin the blue and orange all f'in week starting Sunday.

[TheFinisher]

Just a little something to get you hyped for tip off

BYVz3PXeSwE

[bigbluedefense]

:(

I has a sad :(

[bigbluedefense]

What did you guys think of the draft?

I liked it. I was hoping Vucevic would fall to us but was taken 1 pick earlier, so that sucked.

But I don't get why everyone is trashing the pick. I thought it was a good pick. Shumpert can D up, and he's athletic. I know his offensive game is suspect, but we have enough offense, it's good to add an athletic defender in our backcourt. We needed that.

I admittedly know nothing about either of our picks, but it seems good to me on paper. Shumpert sounds and looks like an athletic stingy defender who can give us quality minutes as a specialist, and we got our big in round 2. Hopefully he'll be a nice big body for depth.

I didn't think it was a bad draft. Vucevic was my first choice, but hey, what can ya do? I think Shumpert will be a nice depth guy who fits a need.

[LTgiants]

Vucevic would have been a awful pick for us. I don't hate the pick I would just prefer to have somebody who is more of a knock down shooter. Shumpert is still developing his.

[bigbluedefense]

Vucevic would have been a awful pick for us. I don't hate the pick I would just prefer to have somebody who is more of a knock down shooter. Shumpert is still developing his.

Why? I thought Vucevic would be a decent bench guy who can give us a good 10-15 minutes a game during the season at the 4 so we can rest Stat a lil more.

I didn't want him as a starter, I viewed him as a depth guy who can give us more options in the paint when Stoudemire takes a rest. Right now our only 4 or 5 who can score consistently is Amare, Vuvecic couldve been a nice depth option in that regards, don't you think?

A knockdown shooter would have been nice, but hey, what can ya do? It's not like they were available at 17. We just have to hope Fields develops his J this offseason.

[LTgiants]

Why? I thought Vucevic would be a decent bench guy who can give us a good 10-15 minutes a game during the season at the 4 so we can rest Stat a lil more.

I didn't want him as a starter, I viewed him as a depth guy who can give us more options in the paint when Stoudemire takes a rest. Right now our only 4 or 5 who can score consistently is Amare, Vuvecic couldve been a nice depth option in that regards, don't you think?

A knockdown shooter would have been nice, but hey, what can ya do? It's not like they were available at 17. We just have to hope Fields develops his J this offseason.

Vuceviic is a center not a 4.

Vucevic is also soft and crappy on D. I don't think he is going to be a good pro player. He getting drafted at 16 is literally because this was a terrible draft for centers. He is not very athletic so imagine a soft un athletic center in a D'antoni system that would be a mess. Also question his ability to score in the NBA.

They could have tried to make a move up for one. I just feel this has as much do with who Shumpert's agent is much as it is about him doing better in workouts compared to his game tape.

[bigbluedefense]

Vuceviic is a center not a 4.

Vucevic is also soft and crappy on D. I don't think he is going to be a good pro player. He getting drafted at 16 is literally because this was a terrible draft for centers. He is not very athletic so imagine a soft un athletic center in a D'antoni system that would be a mess. Also question his ability to score in the NBA.

They could have tried to make a move up for one. I just feel this has as much do with who Shumpert's agent is much as it is about him doing better in workouts compared to his game tape.

Do you really like Jimmer that much though? I question if he has the athleticism to create his own shot or D up on the athletes you see in the backcourt in today's NBA.

I can't imagine him running through a screen or pick in roll either.

Fair points on Vuvecic. I'm curious to see how we develop Shumpert. Hahn is saying we are going to have him D up on the 2, and run pick and roll on offense. I don't know how believable that is, I guess we have to wait and see.

[LTgiants]

Do you really like Jimmer that much though? I question if he has the athleticism to create his own shot or D up on the athletes you see in the backcourt in today's NBA.

I can't imagine him running through a screen or pick in roll either.

Fair points on Vuvecic. I'm curious to see how we develop Shumpert. Hahn is saying we are going to have him D up on the 2, and run pick and roll on offense. I don't know how believable that is, I guess we have to wait and see.

I was talking about Klay Thompson not Jimmer. I like Jimmer but not to trade up for.

Again I dont dislike Shumpert. I think you could have went down a couple spots added a asset and still got Iman.

I don't think he is a point guard I think he is strictly a 2 on offense. He can probably guard a few but idk if he can run a offense. Maybe over time but not right now.

[bigbluedefense]

I was talking about Klay Thompson not Jimmer. I like Jimmer but not to trade up for.

Again I dont dislike Shumpert. I think you could have went down a couple spots added a asset and still got Iman.

I don't think he is a point guard I think he is strictly a 2 on offense. He can probably guard a few but idk if he can run a offense. Maybe over time but not right now.

Yeah that's true. What can you tell us about our 2nd rounder, the C from Kentucky? Any potential there?

We need a Center by committee approach to work for us this year if we want to compete. What I can't stand is how our bench players are afraid to foul bc they don't want to get into foul trouble. Wtf, you're a bench player. Your job is to give us 5 hard fouls a night and make them earn it at the line.

I know that's a random rant, I'm just saying.

[LTgiants]

Yeah that's true. What can you tell us about our 2nd rounder, the C from Kentucky? Any potential there?

We need a Center by committee approach to work for us this year if we want to compete. What I can't stand is how our bench players are afraid to foul bc they don't want to get into foul trouble. Wtf, you're a bench player. Your job is to give us 5 hard fouls a night and make them earn it at the line.

I know that's a random rant, I'm just saying.

Harrellson is just a straight up goon. He can run pick and roll's and has a ok 10 ft jump shoot. That is basically it he is just a tough guy who will not have a problem using his 6 fouls.

This right here is probably his best highlight of his college career

xg9QEtvxdq4

[bigbluedefense]

Harrellson is just a straight up goon. He can run pick and roll's and has a ok 10 ft jump shoot. That is basically it he is just a tough guy who will not have a problem using his 6 fouls.

This right here is probably his best highlight of his college career

xg9QEtvxdq4

That's what I like to hear. We need that too. If we can get 20 minutes a night out of this guy at the 5, that would help a ton. He doesn't look like a shot blocker to me though. But hey, beggers can't be choosers. I just want a guy who can give us 6 hard fouls a night.

[LTgiants]

That's what I like to hear. We need that too. If we can get 20 minutes a night out of this guy at the 5, that would help a ton. He doesn't look like a shot blocker to me though. But hey, beggers can't be choosers. I just want a guy who can give us 6 hard fouls a night.

Ya he is not going to be a huge shot blocker but he is tough so that's good.

If Jerome Jordan can show you anything you can have a solid center rotation between Turiaf Jordan and Harrellson.

[bigbluedefense]

Ya he is not going to be a huge shot blocker but he is tough so that's good.

If Jerome Jordan can show you anything you can have a solid center rotation between Turiaf Jordan and Harrellson.

You don't think we'll keep Sheldon? I actually liked Sheldon at the 5 when he got the chance. He plays tough. His height is an issue, but he played bigger than his size.

I'm curious to see who we retain. I want us to keep Shaun Williams too, just for his corner 3s. Bad reason I know, but he was so money with them.

[Rosebud]

Vucevic would have been a awful pick for us. I don't hate the pick I would just prefer to have somebody who is more of a knock down shooter. Shumpert is still developing his.

He's actually a pretty solid spot up shooter and a knock down free throw shooter. Problem is the kid had too create too much for GT and so shot a **** percentage since he's not nearly as good having to create space and pull up. I think he'll be our starting 2 at some point this season if he can just extend his range a little. I do really like the pick, let him just defend and work on his jumper as a rookie, if he excels start working on his point skills but otherwise I think we have our future 2, letting Fields come off of the bench where he won't have to guard as many quick 2s that blow past him and can play more SF.

[LTgiants]

You don't think we'll keep Sheldon? I actually liked Sheldon at the 5 when he got the chance. He plays tough. His height is an issue, but he played bigger than his size.

I'm curious to see who we retain. I want us to keep Shaun Williams too, just for his corner 3s. Bad reason I know, but he was so money with them.

I don't see us keeping anyone but Shawne Williams out of our fa crop.

I liked Sheldon but D'antoni barely gave him a chance.

[LTgiants]

He's actually a pretty solid spot up shooter and a knock down free throw shooter. Problem is the kid had too create too much for GT and so shot a **** percentage since he's not nearly as good having to create space and pull up. I think he'll be our starting 2 at some point this season if he can just extend his range a little. I do really like the pick, let him just defend and work on his jumper as a rookie, if he excels start working on his point skills but otherwise I think we have our future 2, letting Fields come off of the bench where he won't have to guard as many quick 2s that blow past him and can play more SF.

I know about his situation in GT and how he was the main man. He still shoot a lot of fade away shoots when he could have just went straight up and took a regular J.

I didn't say he had a bad shoot I just said he needs to still work on it you can even go on youtube look at some of his interviews you will hear him say that he needs to work on it still. He has good form on his shot but he is not consistent with it despite his high FT percentage.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't see us keeping anyone but Shawne Williams out of our fa crop.

I liked Sheldon but D'antoni barely gave him a chance.

*Sigh*....I hate D'Antoni.

I'm scared of a post Walsh era where we completely redo our bench...it's a scary thought. Bc you know Isiah is going to have a say.

:(

[LTgiants]

*Sigh*....I hate D'Antoni.

I'm scared of a post Walsh era where we completely redo our bench...it's a scary thought. Bc you know Isiah is going to have a say.

:(

I'm scared cause I fear that our management staff is going to basically be a puppet regime ran by CAA.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm scared cause I fear that our management staff is going to basically be a puppet regime ran by CAA.

It probably will be.

Depressing. It makes you feel like we will never be relevant as long as Dolan is around. And he'll be around for a long long time.

[LTgiants]

It probably will be.

Depressing. It makes you feel like we will never be relevant as long as Dolan is around. And he'll be around for a long long time.

Ya we are kind of stuck at a competitive disadvantage with Dolan.

[bigbluedefense]

Ya we are kind of stuck at a competitive disadvantage with Dolan.

I feel like we're the Raiders of basketball with him. It's so sad. It's almost like he purposely does the exact opposite of what common sense tells him to do.

We just have to hope that Stat and Melo are talented enough together that they can overcome all the future Dolan wtf moments that are about to come our way.

[LTgiants]

I feel like we're the Raiders of basketball with him. It's so sad. It's almost like he purposely does the exact opposite of what common sense tells him to do.

We just have to hope that Stat and Melo are talented enough together that they can overcome all the future Dolan wtf moments that are about to come our way.

Al Davis at least has a excuse he is old and senile.

Pretty much right now all the Knicks can do is hope the new CBA is going to be generous to them.

[bigbluedefense]

Al Davis at least has a excuse he is old and senile.

Pretty much right now all the Knicks can do is hope the new CBA is going to be generous to them.

It doesn't sound like it will be. One of the main issues is owners want a hard cap, and a hard cap would royally screw the Knicks (or any big market team for that matter).

I think we're in for a long lock out. I doubt we'll have a full season this year.

[LTgiants]

Which is another reason why I didnt want to go and form another big 3

[bigbluedefense]

If we don't form a big 3 though, then you can't help but think that our approach has been flawed. We got the wrong 2nd superstar. We need a stud PG to make this work, bc right now we have the same problem that Miami has with Lebron and Wade.

If we go the 2 superstar approach, we need to trade either Melo or Stat for a Deron or CP3. Bc right now we don't have that ying/yang chemistry you need out of the 2 superstar approach.

[LTgiants]

Our approach has been flawed. Now you are stuck in a position that you don't want to be in.

[TheFinisher]

Anyone think we should make a play for Monta Ellis? He wants out of Golden St, maybe we could send Billups + future 1st.

[bigbluedefense]

Billups and a 1st wouldn't be enough to get him. And honestly, I don't want him. No defense.

I want Felton back. If we can't get CP3 I would absolutely love to bring back Felton when his contract expires after this season.

I don't see that happening though.

Random thought: If we let go of D'Antoni, I'd like for us to hire Bill Lambeer. The guy would bring that Tom Thibidou (sp) style to this team, and that's the type of basketball I always preferred. I'm not a fan of D'Antoni's style. I always liked the Van Gundy/Riley/Thibidou/Carlisle style of basketball.

[LTgiants]

Hell no to Ellis

I doubt Felton would want to come back here if Portland lets him walk

Rather have a coach with NBA experience

[bigbluedefense]

Hell no to Ellis

I doubt Felton would want to come back here if Portland lets him walk

Rather have a coach with NBA experience

Money talks. You never know.

It's a tough call in regards to a coach with experience vs an up and comer. Unless a Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers type of coach is available, is it really necessary to grab the guy with experience?

Guys like Van Gundy and Thibodou were great coaches who didn't have experience when they first started. You never know until you give a guy a chance.

I think Lambeer would be credible bc he does have HC experience (I know the wnba but still..), he has credibility as a former player on a championship team who is well respected for his past, and he brings the brand of basketball that I personally prefer. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot.

He wanted the Knicks HC position in the past too, supposedly badly. I'd be lying to you if I told you I knew all the good candidates out there, but his name does intrigue me, and he fits the bill on paper in my eyes.

I'd like to see him get a shot in the NBA regardless, whether its with us or with someone else.

[LTgiants]

Money talks. You never know.

It's a tough call in regards to a coach with experience vs an up and comer. Unless a Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers type of coach is available, is it really necessary to grab the guy with experience?

Guys like Van Gundy and Thibodou were great coaches who didn't have experience when they first started. You never know until you give a guy a chance.

I think Lambeer would be credible bc he does have HC experience (I know the wnba but still..), he has credibility as a former player on a championship team who is well respected for his past, and he brings the brand of basketball that I personally prefer. I wouldn't mind giving him a shot.

He wanted the Knicks HC position in the past too, supposedly badly. I'd be lying to you if I told you I knew all the good candidates out there, but his name does intrigue me, and he fits the bill on paper in my eyes.

I'd like to see him get a shot in the NBA regardless, whether its with us or with someone else.

You would probably have to severely over pay him to bring him back in under to make up dealing after half a season.

Lambieer only got a interview with the Knicks cause of Isiah.

If your goal is to bring in a coach with no NBA head coach experience I would rather bring in Patrick Ewing. Who wants to be a head coach badly as well and he is one of the best big man coaches in the NBA look at how much he helped guys like Yao and Dwight.

It is usually better to bring in a guy with head coach experience in the NBA then grabbing a college coach or a guy who has never coached men. The difference between JVG and Thibs is they were assistant coaches in the NBA for years just like Ewing is now. Unlike Lambieer who has no NBA experience at all.

[bigbluedefense]

You would probably have to severely over pay him to bring him back in under to make up dealing after half a season.

Lambieer only got a interview with the Knicks cause of Isiah.

If your goal is to bring in a coach with no NBA head coach experience I would rather bring in Patrick Ewing. Who wants to be a head coach badly as well and he is one of the best big man coaches in the NBA look at how much he helped guys like Yao and Dwight.

It is usually better to bring in a guy with head coach experience in the NBA then grabbing a college coach or a guy who has never coached men. The difference between JVG and Thibs is they were assistant coaches in the NBA for years just like Ewing is now. Unlike Lambieer who has no NBA experience at all.

That's very true. Great point, I didn't think about that.

Didn't Dwight get exponentially better on offense only after he spent some time training with Hakeem? I think that actually hurts Pat more than anything.

Id love to see Pat coach the Knicks just bc he's our boy, but if I take my heart out of the equation, I'd probably be opposed to it.

It will never happen, but I'd give anything to see Jeff come back and coach the Knicks.

[LTgiants]

That's very true. Great point, I didn't think about that.

Didn't Dwight get exponentially better on offense only after he spent some time training with Hakeem? I think that actually hurts Pat more than anything.

Id love to see Pat coach the Knicks just bc he's our boy, but if I take my heart out of the equation, I'd probably be opposed to it.

It will never happen, but I'd give anything to see Jeff come back and coach the Knicks.

Not really Patrick helped as much as Hakeem. Watch Dwight from before the Magic hired Ewing in 2007-2008 then watch him after. He made huge improvements. Hakeem helped him this past off season add a little more to his base. However most of the work has been done by Patrick especially on the defense.

[bigbluedefense]

Not really Patrick helped as much as Hakeem. Watch Dwight from before the Magic hired Ewing in 2007-2008 then watch him after. He made huge improvements. Hakeem helped him this past off season add a little more to his base. However most of the work has been done by Patrick especially on the defense.

I just want a defensive coach :(

[LTgiants]

I just want a defensive coach :(

There are reports out there that D'antoni will hire a defensive assistant. I hope if he does that means Herb Williams is finally gone. How this guy has survived this many coaching regimes is amazing. He is like a **** roach that just wont die.

[bigbluedefense]

There are reports out there that D'antoni will hire a defensive assistant. I hope if he does that means Herb Williams is finally gone. How this guy has survived this many coaching regimes is amazing. He is like a **** roach that just wont die.

Maybe him and Isiah both have naked pictures of Dolan somewhere that they're using to blackmail him with.

My disdain for D'Antoni isn't just his lack of defense, it's his management of our roster, his style lives and dies with the 3 which is a low percentage shot, his stubbornness with certain players and playing time, his teams typically lack toughness and can't finish in crunch time, etc.

I just don't like him. His teams are soft. I'm not sure a defensive assistant will change that. A team typically takes the personality of it's HC. Not just in basketball, but in any sport.

I just don't like his cream puff style.

[LTgiants]

Maybe him and Isiah both have naked pictures of Dolan somewhere that they're using to blackmail him with.

My disdain for D'Antoni isn't just his lack of defense, it's his management of our roster, his style lives and dies with the 3 which is a low percentage shot, his stubbornness with certain players and playing time, his teams typically lack toughness and can't finish in crunch time, etc.

I just don't like him. His teams are soft. I'm not sure a defensive assistant will change that. A team typically takes the personality of it's HC. Not just in basketball, but in any sport.

I just don't like his cream puff style.

I wouldn't call it a cream puff style. Its a style based on floor spacing and ball movement. Nobody can argue that having floor spacing and ball movement is a bad thing.

My issue with him isn't his offensive philosophy. More with the whole balance of his minutes and his use of only 8 players is the thing that bothers me the most.

I think he should add a defensive coach and have a defensive philosophy other then just a regular man to man street ball type defense. Adding a defensive coach cant hurt it can only help at this point.

How ever I feel if you are a NBA player playing at the highest level you should have a general idea how to play defense and a lot of the players here don't know how to do that. It should not take you this long to figure it out.

I don't think you will see a huge change in defense right away if you fired D'antoni. It doesn't matter who the coach is if you don't have all 5 guys out there wanting to play on that end.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah, Stat and Melo are what they are defensively. That won't change with a new coaching staff.

But what can change is the type of players we surround them with. A defensive coach would redo our bench and our supporting cast to focus on guys who play that nasty gritty style to make up for Melo and Stat. We should surround those 2 with defensive minded players, who in a perfect world, can hit a jump shot.

With Melo and Stat, we have enough offensive talent with those 2 alone to get by offensively. Now we need to surround them with those gritty players that will do the dirty work. If Chicago can be good with 1 great offensive player, we should be able to do the same if not more with Stat and Melo if we surround them with defenders.

With D'Antoni as coach, we just won't look for those guys unfortunately. He's more concerned with finding guys who can spread the floor and hit their Js, and if they can D up on top of that, then great. But it's a secondary desire of his, whereas a defensive coach would look for that first and offense second.

It's tough, bc while I hate D'Antoni's style, he's not a terrible coach, and his system does work. But I just don't like it.

I also have the same issues you have with him, with his 8 man rotation etc. That is truly his biggest issue.

[LTgiants]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. However Chicago's offense is just a Derrick Rose iso offense. With 4 guys to compliment him. You cant do that with the Knicks it would be horrible. It probably would cause a clash between Melo and Stat cause some nights one guy would dominate the ball more then the other one.

[Rosebud]

Yeah, Stat and Melo are what they are defensively. That won't change with a new coaching staff.

But what can change is the type of players we surround them with. A defensive coach would redo our bench and our supporting cast to focus on guys who play that nasty gritty style to make up for Melo and Stat. We should surround those 2 with defensive minded players, who in a perfect world, can hit a jump shot.

With Melo and Stat, we have enough offensive talent with those 2 alone to get by offensively. Now we need to surround them with those gritty players that will do the dirty work. If Chicago can be good with 1 great offensive player, we should be able to do the same if not more with Stat and Melo if we surround them with defenders.

With D'Antoni as coach, we just won't look for those guys unfortunately. He's more concerned with finding guys who can spread the floor and hit their Js, and if they can D up on top of that, then great. But it's a secondary desire of his, whereas a defensive coach would look for that first and offense second.

It's tough, bc while I hate D'Antoni's style, he's not a terrible coach, and his system does work. But I just don't like it.

I also have the same issues you have with him, with his 8 man rotation etc. That is truly his biggest issue.

Because Jared Jeffries, Ronny Turiaf, Iman Shumpert and Raja Bell are such offensive dynamo's? Yeah, mike won't play guys who disrupt our own offense, but all a defender needs to do to satisfy mike is not chuck up stupid shots, not try too do too much and pass the ball to someone who's not offensively useless. He's a smart coach, he knows how he wants to play, and given who our stars are it's not a bad call, but the people who ***** about him not caring about D are stupid, he does, he's just not as adept at coaching it as he is offense. Then again that'll probably change once he wins his first ring because Rick Carlisle's defenses where a joke with Detroit just 7 years ago and now he's getting credit as one of the best coaches in the league.

[LTgiants]

So how exactly do you plan for Mike to get his version of Dwayne Casey?

[Rosebud]

So how exactly do you plan for Mike to get his version of Dwayne Casey?

Wish I knew enough about NBA coaches to be able to say who we should get to be his defensive assistant.

[LTgiants]

Wish I knew enough about NBA coaches to be able to say who we should get to be his defensive assistant.

I was just saying since you were talking about D'antoni's reputation rebounding if he wins. I was just trying to say Dwayne Casey had more to do with the Mavs D then Rick and people respecting the Mavs D. Which is why Casey is now coach of the Raptors.

[Rosebud]

I was just saying since you were talking about D'antoni's reputation rebounding if he wins. I was just trying to say Dwayne Casey had more to do with the Mavs D then Rick and people respecting the Mavs D. Which is why Casey is now coach of the Raptors.

Carlisle's reputation is on a completely different level than it was a few years ago while I have no issue attributing that to Casey's influence it doesn't change what it's done for Carlisle. I think Mike D being open to a defensive assistant and Carlisle's experience provide us with a good example of how a guy who just isn't a good teacher of defense can still do a great job coaching a great defensive team under the right conditions. I believe in Mike and love the way he wants his teams to play, unfortunately he's had a lot of ******** players and ****** defenders. I wish I knew who that missing piece is to be Mike's Casey, but we still need more defenders before then and need to keep building our team. I'm getting excited to see Shumpert's impact since I think him and Dougie could be absolutely brutal attacking opposing back courts on D and having players who'll play good defense is one of the big piece that fell into place for Carlisle.

[LTgiants]

Carlisle's reputation is on a completely different level than it was a few years ago while I have no issue attributing that to Casey's influence it doesn't change what it's done for Carlisle. I think Mike D being open to a defensive assistant and Carlisle's experience provide us with a good example of how a guy who just isn't a good teacher of defense can still do a great job coaching a great defensive team under the right conditions. I believe in Mike and love the way he wants his teams to play, unfortunately he's had a lot of ******** players and ****** defenders. I wish I knew who that missing piece is to be Mike's Casey, but we still need more defenders before then and need to keep building our team. I'm getting excited to see Shumpert's impact since I think him and Dougie could be absolutely brutal attacking opposing back courts on D and having players who'll play good defense is one of the big piece that fell into place for Carlisle.

Ya Carlisle's rep is now better then it was when he first got hired that usually is what happens when you have winning seasons and then you add a title to it.

Ya you need defenders otherwise it doesn't matter who you have running the D. You are not telling me anything I don't know there. If Mike and management can find a guy weather its Lawrence Frank or who ever they need to get rid of Herb Williams. Mike can coach O and let someone else focus on the D.

As much as I like Douglas I think moving Douglas is the next step you have to take to improve this team. Trade Douglas, Balkman and Walker for Ramon Sessions and Samardo Samuels is the move I want to see made it gives us a good backup PG and another center which we need. A center who is athletic and plays D

[Rosebud]

Ya Carlisle's rep is now better then it was when he first got hired that usually is what happens when you have winning seasons and then you add a title to it.

Ya you need defenders otherwise it doesn't matter who you have running the D. You are not telling me anything I don't know there. If Mike and management can find a guy weather its Lawrence Frank or who ever they need to get rid of Herb Williams. Mike can coach O and let someone else focus on the D.

As much as I like Douglas I think moving Douglas is the next step you have to take to improve this team. Trade Douglas, Balkman and Walker for Ramon Sessions and Samardo Samuels is the move I want to see made it gives us a good backup PG and another center which we need. A center who is athletic and plays D

I'm with on you're first two points but I wouldn't trade Dougie for Sessions, at least not until the new CBA makes it impossible for us to get a 3rd max cat. Next summer is the next time we'll have any cap space to play with, so for now we need to stay as flexible as we can and hope the CBA lets us make as big of a splash as we can. From there we can start taking on long term contracts for role players to round out the team, but this year we can't go out acquire long term contracts.

I still think we need a Center to pair with Turiaf, Harrelson and Jordan in our Center by committee, but I'm comfortable with our back court. Billups, Dougie, Shumpert and Fields is a good group to go with Melo and Stat in the front court. We'll be weak at center again this season, but our perimeter D should be better and our o shouldn't sputter like it did last postseason when Amar'e went down. Next year we get to make a big splash and hopefully at that point we'll be true contenders or at least just some tweaks away from contending. Right now we're still to young around our big 3.

[LTgiants]

I'm with on you're first two points but I wouldn't trade Dougie for Sessions, at least not until the new CBA makes it impossible for us to get a 3rd max cat. Next summer is the next time we'll have any cap space to play with, so for now we need to stay as flexible as we can and hope the CBA lets us make as big of a splash as we can. From there we can start taking on long term contracts for role players to round out the team, but this year we can't go out acquire long term contracts.

I still think we need a Center to pair with Turiaf, Harrelson and Jordan in our Center by committee, but I'm comfortable with our back court. Billups, Dougie, Shumpert and Fields is a good group to go with Melo and Stat in the front court. We'll be weak at center again this season, but our perimeter D should be better and our o shouldn't sputter like it did last postseason when Amar'e went down. Next year we get to make a big splash and hopefully at that point we'll be true contenders or at least just some tweaks away from contending. Right now we're still to young around our big 3.

I easily would trade Dougie for Sessions. I am not worried about Sessions contract cause even with the 2012 plan you can still move Sessions after he improves his value under D'antoni. Just look at what happened recently with Felton. Felton's value got pumped enough for us to be able to make the Melo deal. I think the same can be done with Sessions.

Sessions is a much better PG then Douglas and we need someone who can actually come off the bench and run a pick and roll something that Toney still is struggling with.

Also you got a center to add to the committee with Samardo Samuels. I think it is the best deal to make for us right now and it doesn't have a huge negative affect that they can not be moved either during the deadline or before FA.

Our perimeter D is still going to be blehhh especially with Billups.

[bigbluedefense]

Because Jared Jeffries, Ronny Turiaf, Iman Shumpert and Raja Bell are such offensive dynamo's? Yeah, mike won't play guys who disrupt our own offense, but all a defender needs to do to satisfy mike is not chuck up stupid shots, not try too do too much and pass the ball to someone who's not offensively useless. He's a smart coach, he knows how he wants to play, and given who our stars are it's not a bad call, but the people who ***** about him not caring about D are stupid, he does, he's just not as adept at coaching it as he is offense. Then again that'll probably change once he wins his first ring because Rick Carlisle's defenses where a joke with Detroit just 7 years ago and now he's getting credit as one of the best coaches in the league.

Getting some defensive specialists on the team and coaching defense are 2 completely different things. Everyone who has been around D'Antoni has always stated that he needs a defensive assistant to coach defense bc he doesn't coach it.

Kerr had to force him to coach defense in practices bc he never did. Just watch the Knicks play d and you can see how painfully obvious it is that they don't practice defense. They don't even bump guys to the basket. It's a clear lane every time followed by Stat or Turiaf just trying to swat it at the hoop. Now one clogs any lanes, no help defense, no switches, nothing. Guys don't even box out for rebounds. It's sad.

Fundamentals on defense are severely lacking on our team. And D'Antoni is absolutely to blame for that.

[bigbluedefense]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7130997/carmelo-anthony-love-new-orleans-hornets-chris-paul-new-york-knicks

It has begun. Oh wait, no it hasn't. Bc we won't have a season. Darn.

[LTgiants]

Even when the NBA comes back I doubt the CBA will work in our favor.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah the new CBA won't be in our favor. Dan Gilbert is making sure of it.

[bigbluedefense]

It's that time of year!

After sleeping on it, I've gotten over the whole CP3 thing. Yes, signing Chandler hurts our chances of landing CP3 or Deron, both of whom seem to be long shots at this point anyway, but it does make our front court pretty bad ass.

As long as Stat and Melo are also on board with a stronger commitment to defense, our front court could be one of the best if not the best in the league.

And if we can use the wrinkle in the new CBA to sign Felton in the offseason, we could be set. Yes, Felton isn't CP3 or Deron, but he's a damn good consolation prize.

Having a real center + Felton could wind up being a much better fit than just CP3 or Deron.

That 58 million dollar price tag is killing me though. That's too much money for a Center who can't score and is often injured.

[Damix]

Chandler is exactly what I wanted, as I've said before. I want my super stars to be SF and PF (we have that) a defense and rebounding center (hi Chandler), a sharpshooter at the 2 and a pass first and defense PG.

We have the hard parts done, I'm feeling good for the first time in years.

[bigbluedefense]

Chandler is exactly what I wanted, as I've said before. I want my super stars to be SF and PF (we have that) a defense and rebounding center (hi Chandler), a sharpshooter at the 2 and a pass first and defense PG.

We have the hard parts done, I'm feeling good for the first time in years.

I prefer 1 front court star and 1 back court star. Having both in the front court is a log jam.

I LOVE Stat though, and I don't want to let him go. He's the guy that started this whole thing.

I really think this will all come down to if we can lure Felton back here. The guy is a backup PG in Denver, he doesn't want to be there. If we can restructure enough to get him back next year, maybe even trade for him (I know that's unrealistic though), then we'll be set.

Bc Felton is a very underrated PG. He's not a star, but he's one notch below that. Hopefully Fields worked on his jumpshot this offseason too.

[Rob S]

I prefer 1 front court star and 1 back court star. Having both in the front court is a log jam.

I LOVE Stat though, and I don't want to let him go. He's the guy that started this whole thing.

I really think this will all come down to if we can lure Felton back here. The guy is a backup PG in Denver, he doesn't want to be there. If we can restructure enough to get him back next year, maybe even trade for him (I know that's unrealistic though), then we'll be set.

Bc Felton is a very underrated PG. He's not a star, but he's one notch below that. Hopefully Fields worked on his jumpshot this offseason too.

I didn't know this thread existed....I will be a regular around these parts. I think Chandler is just what we needed and the contract isn't bad at all. Injury concerns are there, but those aside, I thought he would get close to $70 million over 4 from someone.

Chandler, at the very least, will make Amare a more effective defender. Melo is just down to effort, so thats more of a team culture thing, but Chandler protecting the ring and holding down the paint allows Amare to play a rover, Polomalu, kinda role hunting down blocks and making athletic plays. Amare is never going to be a great defender, but he can make great defensive plays......Chandler allows him to do more of this.

We do need a PG, but between Felton and Nash, I think we get one. If it's Nash, we let Shumpert log some decent minutes to help mitigate the impact of his awful defense. Shumpert is going to be a fantastic defender.

At the 2, I like Fields more as a bench player to provide instant energy, hustle plays, and rebounding. We need a sharpshooter there, no doubt. This will take care of itself though, if the NY Knicks are trotting out Nash/Felton-???-Melo--Amare--Chandler, ring hunting vets will be willing to play for less.

I really like the direction this team is going.

P.S. I love STAT, but if trading him meant getting Chris Paul or Deron Williams or Dwight, I absolutely do it. It seems that that option is totally off the table now, but in the event that the issue re-arrises: Paul is just flat out better than STAT and both have injury concerns. Deron is at least as good and doesn't have the same injury worries. D12 is just the man, no player I would rather have in the entire NBA. It sucks that he started everything in NY, but you just gotta pull the trigger there.

[Hurricanes25]

I like the Chandler signing as well. As someone mentioned above, he's a true rebounding and defensive center which is exactly what we need.

And I would love if we could bring Felton back.

[bigbluedefense]

For 58 million though? That's the part that's killing me. I think this is a good move only if we can grab Felton.

I don't want Nash. Old and doesn't play defense.

[Rob S]

For 58 million though? That's the part that's killing me. I think this is a good move only if we can grab Felton.

I don't want Nash. Old and doesn't play defense.

58 is not that terrible. It really isn't. The guy was the 2nd most important player on a NBA Finals winning team. Only reason you question the dollars is injury concerns. I have those concerns, but sometimes you have to make that leap of faith. Any less money and we don't get him. Centers are ******* valuable, more valuable than any other position by far.

I don't love Bill Simmons, but this puts the importance of having a center in perspective: "remember, no team has won a title without a solid center since the '98 Bulls (and they had some guy named Michael). The past 12 champs had David Robinson, Shaq (three straight Laker titles), Robinson (and really, Duncan), Ben Wallace, Duncan again, Shaq (Miami), Duncan a third time, Kendrick Perkins, Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum (twice) and Chandler (with Brendan Haywood). "

[bigbluedefense]

58 is not that terrible. It really isn't. The guy was the 2nd most important player on a NBA Finals winning team. Only reason you question the dollars is injury concerns. I have those concerns, but sometimes you have to make that leap of faith. Any less money and we don't get him. Centers are ******* valuable, more valuable than any other position by far.

I don't love Bill Simmons, but this puts the importance of having a center in perspective: "remember, no team has won a title without a solid center since the '98 Bulls (and they had some guy named Michael). The past 12 champs had David Robinson, Shaq (three straight Laker titles), Robinson (and really, Duncan), Ben Wallace, Duncan again, Shaq (Miami), Duncan a third time, Kendrick Perkins, Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum (twice) and Chandler (with Brendan Haywood). "

Aren't you worried about the whole "overachieve your contract year then turn the switch off" syndrome?

That scares me.

[Rob S]

Aren't you worried about the whole "overachieve your contract year then turn the switch off" syndrome?

That scares me.

I'm only worried about injuries. Here's why: Knicks will be contenders (we won't win a title, but still). Ty won't switch off on a competitive team because he is one of the most competitive guys in the league and will want to go for another title. If the Nets (or another non-contender) signed him, they would still be very meh and I could see him switching off maybe. Not worried about it here though.

EDIT: I could be dead wrong here, but I have never watched Ty play and thought, "this guy is gonna mail it in when he gets paid." I do think that when I watch Marc Gasol, however. Ty is just too much of a leader.

[LTgiants]

We did overpay him about 4 or 5 million per year. He is also does have a history of under performing after getting a big contract in Chicago. Hopefully he plays up to his deal cause as it has been said by millions on paper he fills a huge need.

I am worried though. Cause we have no PG and not the greatest depth behind Chandler if his toe ends up being a problem again.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

For 58 million though? That's the part that's killing me. I think this is a good move only if we can grab Felton.



My feelings exactly. Doesn't help that I'm a big Billups fan as well.

[Rob S]

We did overpay him about 4 or 5 million per year. He is also does have a history of under performing after getting a big contract in Chicago. Hopefully he plays up to his deal cause as it has been said by millions on paper he fills a huge need.

I am worried though. Cause we have no PG and not the greatest depth behind Chandler if his toe ends up being a problem again.

Tyson Chandler is absolutely worth more than 9-10 million dollars a year. 9-10 million is a fair salary for someone like Emeka Okafor. Ty is worth at least 12....he was the 2nd most important player on a title winner for God's sake.

He underperformed for one year (the first) in the previous contract you mentioned. For the vast majority of that deal, his healthy years were very good and he capped it off with a great year in Dallas (not his best statistical output either). Now, injuries are absolutely a concern and the contract is a risk for that reason, but he has always been a double-double machine and defensive leader when healthy (just look at his numbers when he plays over 70 games.) You make it sound like he played poorly when healthy. That just hasn't been the case over the last 5 years.

When you take injuries out of the equation, I don't see how 14 million per doesn't make Chandler appropriately paid. Now, with the injuries, 12 is more appropriate, but centers are at a premium and he could have made even more elsewhere.

Honestly, I take Chandler over Nene and I don't think people would ***** over Nene getting 14 million. Nene has injury concerns as well, is an awful rebounder for a big man, and doesn't protect the rim very well at all. If there are 2 things I want from my center they are rebounding and protection of the rim, especially with Amare there to fill it up on the offensive end. A healthy Ty gives you that in spades.

[LTgiants]

Tyson Chandler is absolutely worth more than 9-10 million dollars a year. 9-10 million is a fair salary for someone like Emeka Okafor. Ty is worth at least 12....he was the 2nd most important player on a title winner for God's sake.

He underperformed for one year (the first) in the previous contract you mentioned. For the vast majority of that deal, his healthy years were very good and he capped it off with a great year in Dallas (not his best statistical output either). Now, injuries are absolutely a concern and the contract is a risk for that reason, but he has always been a double-double machine and defensive leader when healthy (just look at his numbers when he plays over 70 games.) You make it sound like he played poorly when healthy. That just hasn't been the case over the last 5 years.

When you take injuries out of the equation, I don't see how 14 million per doesn't make Chandler appropriately paid. Now, with the injuries, 12 is more appropriate, but centers are at a premium and he could have made even more elsewhere.

Honestly, I take Chandler over Nene and I don't think people would ***** over Nene getting 14 million. Nene has injury concerns as well, is an awful rebounder for a big man, and doesn't protect the rim very well at all. If there are 2 things I want from my center they are rebounding and protection of the rim, especially with Amare there to fill it up on the offensive end. A healthy Ty gives you that in spades.

I just feel 14 million is a little too much. Felt like we overpaid just cause we got word that Chris Paul situation was not going to happen so we just throw all our money at Tyson.

Even if we take your premise of he is worth 12 million we still overpaid. We lost our PG and our backup center in the process of signing him due to his large contract. This is a team especially now with the shortened season that needs depth. Salary cap wise it cost us our use of the amnesty and the MLE.

His best years are when he has good Pg's and we don't have one. He was not the great in Charlotte and that was with Raymond Felton as his PG. I am not trying to make it sound like he was a scrub for 5 years but I dont feel you should just reward a guy with the massive contract based on him having a bounce back year.

He is not a double double machine that is a exaggeration. He did that once with Chris Paul. Also to the 2nd most important player in the finals part ya I agree he was. However you can make arguments for other players for that honor as well.

I am rooting for him to do well here but I have my concern's.

[gpngc]

"A little too much" isn't a strong argument in basketball. You have to pay good players with size a lot in this league. Once we realized CP3 was not possible, we went out and got arguably the most influential piece we could have in order to improve the team.

D'Antoni is already talking about making this a more defensive-minded team, and running the offense through Melo. If Chandler stays healthy, our frontcourt is going to DEVOUR the others in the East. It's not a bad strategy at all.

It's bittersweet because this signing ensures that we won't get DH12 or CP3 (unless we trade Amare), but I think you are undervaluing Chandler a bit. We are currently a top-4 team in the East (and if we just had Billups and Turiaf, one or both would've gotten injured and we'd be featuring Toney Douglas AND Jared Jeffries in starter's roles...)

Chandler was the MAIN ADDITION that took the Mavs from a playoff team to a legitimate title contender. 7-foot shot-blockers/elite rebounders are extremely valuable. He's also apparently a GREAT teammate and leader, which might help guys like Douglas and Shumpert from the getgo - we were pretty much a glued together macaroni project by the playoffs last year. Now we have some stable veteran leadership with BIG GAME experience leading us from training camp.

I wish it was CP3, but I like this move because it improves the team and having cap room for next summer would just allow us to sign a guy like Chandler, nothing better - because Melo/STAT deals are too big for a third max contract + worthwhile role players...

Here's to hoping Toney Douglas can step his game up just a little... (or maybe Baron Davis...) until Nash in 2012? Eh? Um. IDK.

[LTgiants]

"A little too much" isn't a strong argument in basketball. You have to pay good players with size a lot in this league. Once we realized CP3 was not possible, we went out and got arguably the most influential piece we could have in order to improve the team.

D'Antoni is already talking about making this a more defensive-minded team, and running the offense through Melo. If Chandler stays healthy, our frontcourt is going to DEVOUR the others in the East. It's not a bad strategy at all.

It's bittersweet because this signing ensures that we won't get DH12 or CP3 (unless we trade Amare), but I think you are undervaluing Chandler a bit. We are currently a top-4 team in the East (and if we just had Billups and Turiaf, one or both would've gotten injured and we'd be featuring Toney Douglas AND Jared Jeffries in starter's roles...)

Chandler was the MAIN ADDITION that took the Mavs from a playoff team to a legitimate title contender. 7-foot shot-blockers/elite rebounders are extremely valuable. He's also apparently a GREAT teammate and leader, which might help guys like Douglas and Shumpert from the getgo - we were pretty much a glued together macaroni project by the playoffs last year. Now we have some stable veteran leadership with BIG GAME experience leading us from training camp.

I wish it was CP3, but I like this move because it improves the team.

Here's to hoping Toney Douglas can step his game up just a little... (or maybe Baron Davis...) until Nash in 2012? Eh? Um. IDK.

I was just stating my personal opinion on the contract. I know the centers usually get overpaid that isn't a issue with me.

I see that the team still has holes to fill and now has limited ways to fill them now in order to improve the team to make it a legitimate contender.

I am not a D'antoni hater. I actually do like him as a coach for the most part but he is always saying things like that about defense. They sound good on paper for us fans but they usually don't translate as well on the court.

Hopefully Coach Woodson helps that we will see against a Celtic team that added about like 3 forwards yesterday. You need a pg Melo is a underrated passer and all but you still need a pg to run the offense.

I am not undervaluing Chandler on the court at all. my concerns are more about things like can he perform up to the deal and can he stay healthy.

On the court I love the fact we got a a guy who plays D is a shot blocker and a guy i know can rebound. I know he can score in the post but I know we need a pg at some point for those patented Chandler alley oops.

[gpngc]

There's always a chance that it doesn't work out. And I AM a D'Antoni hater because I believe in defense. Still, I have to hope that this shift in philosophy does take place. It's possible, especially with the personnel we have and Woodson.

Staying healthy is ALWAYS the "if" with big contracts - I'm with you on that one.

I just don't mind "over"paying because what else could we have done with that money? The argument that paints a picture of a better alternative - that I'd want to discuss... I honestly just don't know if there is one...

[LTgiants]

There's always a chance that it doesn't work out. And I AM a D'Antoni hater because I believe in defense. Still, I have to hope that this shift in philosophy does take place. It's possible, especially with the personnel we have and Woodson.

Staying healthy is ALWAYS the "if" with big contracts - I'm with you on that one.

I just don't mind "over"paying because what else could we have done with that money? The argument that paints a picture of a better alternative - that I'd want to discuss... I honestly just don't know if there is one...

I certainty don't have a better alternative plan or options to present that are better then Chandler. I accept the fact that Chandler is our Center and am now more focused on what we can add with him. I just feel he got a little too much for my personal taste.

I believe in defense but I also believe in a offense. Hopefully with the two headed monster we can have both and if we do then I will do this dance.

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/awsome/grand/82914836_awesome_gif.gif

Cause it has been years since the Knicks have had both.

[Rob S]

BTW guys, if I understand this correctly, we have the MLE since this was a sign and trade.

[LTgiants]

BTW guys, if I understand this correctly, we have the MLE since this was a sign and trade.

We only have the room exception. We don't have the MLE after amnestying Chauncey to go under the cap.

[Rob S]

We only have the room exception. We don't have the MLE after amnestying Chauncey to go under the cap.

This is true. Hollinger effed up in his article earlier today. He has since changed it haha.

[BuckNaked]

I've seen rambling about us possibly adding Barea and Crawford. Barea would be an upgrade over Bibby, but I still wouldn't be enthused about giving him a multi-year deal to be our starting PG. You know what you get with Crawford, you're gonna get somebody who can score with little defense to go with it. I actually don't dislike this as much as I did earlier today. I think he could actually be a very solid asset coming off the bench as a sixth man, with Landry starting at the 2.

[LTgiants]

Bibby sucks hopefully we add Barea or Baron Davis. Cause Bibby at best should only be the 3rd pg on your depth chart.

The Crawford story I hope to god does not end up happening unless he is stupid enough to take the vet minimum. I don't want to end up trading Douglas for Crawford and end up wasting our only exception this year on him

[bigbluedefense]

Can someone please sign Crawford so we don't? Please?

Who's our backup Center btw? I wonder if Denver cuts Mozzy. Probably not.

[LTgiants]

Can someone please sign Crawford so we don't? Please?

Who's our backup Center btw? I wonder if Denver cuts Mozzy. Probably not.

The guy turned down a 2 yr 10 million dollar offer and we can only offer 2.5.

Jerome Jordan(as soon as his buyout situation gets settled),Josh Harrelson, Jared Jeffries and Chris Hunter are all vying for the honor right now in training camp.

[bigbluedefense]

I guess Jeffries is good enough in a backup role. Give him 15 to 20 minutes a night, I can live with that.

We really need to hope that Fields worked on his J this offseason. What do you guys think this year? I think we're good enough that we should make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anything after that is gravy.

[bigbluedefense]

How do you guys watch Knick games btw? I don't have Cablevision anymore, so I don't get MSG. Is there anywhere I can watch it online?

I'm thinking about getting an IPAD and using my brother's optimum online account to stream the games on the ipad, but im hoping for an alternative.

[LTgiants]

I am sure Firstrow will have some streams of the games.

http://www.firstrowsports.tv/sport/basketball.html

[BuckNaked]

I guess Jeffries is good enough in a backup role. Give him 15 to 20 minutes a night, I can live with that.

We really need to hope that Fields worked on his J this offseason. What do you guys think this year? I think we're good enough that we should make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Anything after that is gravy.

No no no, you don't understand. If Josh Harrellson doesn't make this team, I will start to break things. Being a huge UK fan and all, while he lacks any type of supreme talent, the guy hustles his balls off, provides some girth in the paint that Jeffries doesn't, and has a good feel fior the basket. It was awesome watching him out-duel Sullinger last year. I think he has the potential to be a good 2nd round scrapper, obviously setting him to the standards of Landry Fields would be ridiculous considering how much he overperformed his draft slot, but he's the kind of kid you want on your team.

[bigbluedefense]

Iman Shumpert!!!

[ATLDirtyBirds]

No no no, you don't understand. If Josh Harrellson doesn't make this team, I will start to break things. Being a huge UK fan and all, while he lacks any type of supreme talent, the guy hustles his balls off, provides some girth in the paint that Jeffries doesn't, and has a good feel fior the basket. It was awesome watching him out-duel Sullinger last year. I think he has the potential to be a good 2nd round scrapper, obviously setting him to the standards of Landry Fields would be ridiculous considering how much he overperformed his draft slot, but he's the kind of kid you want on your team.


Yeah, I really like Harrellson. And it sounds like we are probably going to get Baron, which would be fantastic. I'm willing to bet his injury is more of a 2-4 week thing as opposed to 8-10 week as well.

[TheFinisher]

great move, welcome B Diddy.

zzrJJfomCYs

[bigbluedefense]

Well, I saw some progress on defense. Still have a lot of work to do. Our ball movement is horrible, we need a PG in the worst way.

I like Shumpert. Getting hurt sucks, we'll miss his versatility. But our PG situation is awful, we need a PG in the worst way.

Having Melo is huge bc we finally have a closer. We haven't had a closer in a long time.

[Forenci]

Well, I saw some progress on defense. Still have a lot of work to do. Our ball movement is horrible, we need a PG in the worst way.

I like Shumpert. Getting hurt sucks, we'll miss his versatility. But our PG situation is awful, we need a PG in the worst way.

Having Melo is huge bc we finally have a closer. We haven't had a closer in a long time.

Yeah, I'm interested to see how the team pans out this year. If Baron can come back in shape and healthy and be our distributor we could be a contender. I like Douglas' defense and lightning scoring off the bench but as a starter I don't think he can cut it.

Although, one thing I do love about Douglas is he knows he's not a great passer so he keeps it simple and almost never turns the ball over. That's rare for a guy who is supposed to be a point guard and ball handler but isn't great at it.

I'm still not a Melo's biggest fan, but he certainly can score in bunches with the game on the line. For me, it's about consistency with him. He needs to play defense consistently and he needs to score more efficiently. That's my biggest knock on him. He's 6'8, athletic, and can score in a variety of ways. There is no reason he shouldn't be shooting 50% from the field every night.

[Damix]

Well, I saw some progress on defense. Still have a lot of work to do. Our ball movement is horrible, we need a PG in the worst way.

I like Shumpert. Getting hurt sucks, we'll miss his versatility. But our PG situation is awful, we need a PG in the worst way.

Having Melo is huge bc we finally have a closer. We haven't had a closer in a long time.

I really like Shumpert too, I liked his confidence and how athletic he is. I think we found a gem if he progresses like he should.

It does suck he got hurt though.

[bigbluedefense]

For this year in particular, we really need to figure something out with the PG position. We're not going anywhere until we figure out our PG situation.

[bigbluedefense]

We haven't talked Knicks basketball in a long time.

I'm digging the new defensive intensity. While it's still a work in progress, we are clearly lights years better on defense this year vs last year. Guys are communicating, they're bringing effort and intensity, and they're bumping guys to the basket.

Chandler has been a big reason for that, but we also improved our roster beyond him. I love Harrelson. He's a goon, a guy who will play hard defense and be that dirty role player you need for 15 minutes a night. Shumpert has potential to be special. If he can overcome the rookie wall, he'll do some damage this year. Love his length, versatilty, defense, and his shot is better than I thought it was. Love how he attacks the basket. I think we found our SG of the future.

Melo and Stat are playing better D too. Although still not up to snuff. But they're getting there. Stat needs more work on defense than Melo. And for ***** sake, BOX OUT STAT.

Our offense is a different story though. We need a PG in the worst way. There's no flow to the offense, it's all isolation plays. Stat isn't attacking the hoop as much as he used to, we don't have as many 3 point shooters as last year, and we don't create as much space as we used to.

Offense needs a lot of work. It's also getting better though as these guys play with each other more.

Oh and Landry Fields is awful. We shouldve traded him while his stock was high last year.

If Baron can give us a legit PG, we can be a good team. If not, then we're another year away from putting it together. Either way, I'm excited.

[bigbluedefense]

Come on guys! We need to get this thread back alive!

I'm not too worried right now, I think as long as we make the playoffs and avoid Miami in the 1st round, we should be ok. We need time to gel.

I'm very concerned about Amare though. He looks done already. No explosion, can't jump at all anymore, he put on too much weight this offseason and his back still looks stiff. He just looks done.

I hope he's not done already. But it's not looking good for him right now.

[bigbluedefense]

Remember when we were getting killed for trading our bench away for Melo last year?

Well look now. One year later, our bench this year is much much better than our bench last year. This was essentially a Gallo for Melo trade, and I think it's fair to say we got the better player.

Do you really care that we lost Chandler, Mozgov, Felton, and the rest of them now?

That's why I always say role players don't mean a thing. You can easily replace them. Star players aren't easy to get. You trade a bunch of role players for a star player every time.

We improved our starting lineup and our bench in 1 year. If Baron can stay healthy, we'll get 45 minutes of quality PG play, our SG rotation of Fields, Shump (who is becoming a stud defender) is solid, our front court depth is solid and Chandler gives us great defense and energy in the middle.

If Stat can slowly get back to what he was, we can be dangerous. We play with so much passion and energy now too. I really am hopeful for this season. Hopefully we win a playoff series this year.

[Hurricanes25]

It's just fun to watch the Knicks again. The game last night against Cleveland was an absolute blast to watch. The Garden is as loud as its been in years. The team is playing well and it looks like they're having a lot of fun too.

10 guys in the rotation! And I'm comfortable with all of them. And yeah, if Stat could regain some of that explosiveness, we're going to be very dangerous. Beating Miami or Chicago is going to be very tough but hey, who knows.

[Forenci]

Remember when we were getting killed for trading our bench away for Melo last year?

Well look now. One year later, our bench this year is much much better than our bench last year. This was essentially a Gallo for Melo trade, and I think it's fair to say we got the better player.

Do you really care that we lost Chandler, Mozgov, Felton, and the rest of them now?

That's why I always say role players don't mean a thing. You can easily replace them. Star players aren't easy to get. You trade a bunch of role players for a star player every time.

We improved our starting lineup and our bench in 1 year. If Baron can stay healthy, we'll get 45 minutes of quality PG play, our SG rotation of Fields, Shump (who is becoming a stud defender) is solid, our front court depth is solid and Chandler gives us great defense and energy in the middle.

If Stat can slowly get back to what he was, we can be dangerous. We play with so much passion and energy now too. I really am hopeful for this season. Hopefully we win a playoff series this year.

Before he got hurt Gallo was doing really well for the Nuggets. He's played better than Melo this year. I just don't like Melo though. He's having a terrible year so far and is a selfish player.

The only reason we're even competitive is because of Lin - not Melo. I don't like the trade and still don't. Just like I didn't like the Chandler signing. All he can do is dunk and play defense a bit. He's not worth the money he's being paid.

[LTgiants]

Ya a couple wins make it so trading 4 starters and all your draft pick all worth it in hindsighthttp://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif lol

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Just like I didn't like the Chandler signing. All he can do is dunk and play defense a bit. He's not worth the money he's being paid.


Wait, what? Chandler's been worth every damn penny. He's basically the sole reason we aren't horrid defensively anymore.

[Hurricanes25]

I'm with ATL here. Chandler is worth everything we're paying him. He is a legit defensive center and he is contributing more on offense than I thought he would. He brings a lot of energy too. I'm very happy with him.

[bigbluedefense]

I admit I wasn't thrilled with the Chandler signing initially, but he has been worth every penny. Our defense is light years better, he brings an intensity and passion that we were lacking, and now that we have a PG, he's actually giving us more on offense than I initially expected.

He was worth it.

My concern moving forward is, how are we going to keep Lin long term? Because he's going to get a good contract. I know we can keep him next year, but beyond that, what do we do?

[ATLDirtyBirds]

I admit I wasn't thrilled with the Chandler signing initially, but he has been worth every penny. Our defense is light years better, he brings an intensity and passion that we were lacking, and now that we have a PG, he's actually giving us more on offense than I initially expected.



Yeah, my issue wasn't with Chandler the player. It was more of, holy ****, our PG spot is going to be ******* atrocious. Thank god Lin stepped up.

[Giantsfan1080]

With Chandler, Shumpert, Jeffries, and even JR Smith the Knicks haven't had a defensive effort like this in a while.

[bigbluedefense]

Shump is developing into a beast on defense. If he can work on his J, he's going to be very good. Don't' forget Harrelson either. Before he got hurt, the vanilla gorilla was giving us some decent minutes.

This Knicks team, both the starting lineup and the bench, is significantly better than what it was last year.

[OSUGiants17]

http://nyc.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/03/bIMgY3.gif

Somebody needs to wear this as a sig

[Giantsfan1080]

I like Novak a lot but don't do anything that somewhat implies you're a cheesehead.

[Forenci]

Wait, what? Chandler's been worth every damn penny. He's basically the sole reason we aren't horrid defensively anymore.

Eh, we're still pretty middle of the road in terms of defensive ability. Some of that is simply due to slowing down our tempo too. We might not give up as many points but we also have scored fewer points this year.

I mean, Tyson is a good defender. Like I said, most of his offense comes from dunks - hence the high percentage. That's fine, but it's not like he can be relied upon for any consistent offense by his own accord. I just think he's overpaid and the idea that he can change a team culture and make them more defensively orientation is silly.

Only the coach can do that. D'Antoni has slowed the pace down and emphasized defense far more this year. Or at least his assistants have. Either way. That and we've had other defensive players show up - ala Shumpert.

[bigbluedefense]

Eh, we're still pretty middle of the road in terms of defensive ability. Some of that is simply due to slowing down our tempo too. We might not give up as many points but we also have scored fewer points this year.

I mean, Tyson is a good defender. Like I said, most of his offense comes from dunks - hence the high percentage. That's fine, but it's not like he can be relied upon for any consistent offense by his own accord. I just think he's overpaid and the idea that he can change a team culture and make them more defensively orientation is silly.

Only the coach can do that. D'Antoni has slowed the pace down and emphasized defense far more this year. Or at least his assistants have. Either way. That and we've had other defensive players show up - ala Shumpert.

He's brought us a presence in the middle, numbers don't do his defense justice.

I'm not saying he was worth the price tag, bc I feel we probably did overpay for him, but if you want to be a successful team, you need a guy like that in the middle. 7 footers aren't cheap.

Now if we could package him and Amare for Dwight, I do it in a heartbeat. Hell, I'll drive both of them down there myself, but since that's not happening, I'm happy with what we have.

We just have to cross our fingers that Stat can become Stat again. Bc right now, he's not close to what he was last year before D'Antoni rode his knees to the ground.

[Forenci]

He's brought us a presence in the middle, numbers don't do his defense justice.

I'm not saying he was worth the price tag, bc I feel we probably did overpay for him, but if you want to be a successful team, you need a guy like that in the middle. 7 footers aren't cheap.

Now if we could package him and Amare for Dwight, I do it in a heartbeat. Hell, I'll drive both of them down there myself, but since that's not happening, I'm happy with what we have.

We just have to cross our fingers that Stat can become Stat again. Bc right now, he's not close to what he was last year before D'Antoni rode his knees to the ground.

Eh, I think Chandlers presence and role has been overrated. I'm not saying he's made no impact, but I do feel it's slightly overblown. That's just me though. 7 footers don't just grow on trees, but I still think with Chandlers injury history and his lack of offensive game that he wasn't worth the price tag at all. I would have been happier with trying to swing a deal for a third big time player. Unless Lin continues to beast and becomes a star, there is no way we can compete with a team like the Heat or Thunder, if it came to that.

They're just too good defensively and have too many weapons on offense.

Plus I don't think Melo is that special. And Stat hasn't looked great either, as you mentioned. I worry he just doesn't fit in with Melo here. He's too willing to defer and loses his aggressiveness. Things just don't look good unless Lin continues to play like this.

[Damix]

This team is going no where with Lin as the PG. Give me Baron.

[LTgiants]

http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web04/2011/6/6/22/wow-you-are-an-idiot-429-1307415443-29.jpg

[Rob S]

Lin is fine. Baron also looks good. I like Lin playing around 25ish minutes, Baron getting the rest.

[bigbluedefense]

Give him time. This is essentially his rookie year, he'll grow and get better.

I like how the starting unit is working on their ball movement. It's been much better. We just have to cut down on the turnovers and we'll be fine. I'm not worried about it.

Paul Pierce is clutch. It happens.

Love our depth, love our ball movement so far, we just have to cut down on turnovers.

[Damix]

I see a player that makes consistently awful decisions and plays out of control. There were 3 or 4 times when he just flat out slipped today and got bailed out by foul calls.

At least Baron's turn overs tend to be bad execution, not bad decision making.

Lin's a nice high energy guy, but he shouldn't be given as many minutes as he has been.

[LTgiants]

The Knicks got bailed out by foul calls? You are aware that the Knicks are the team in blue and not the team in white and green right?

[Damix]

The Knicks got bailed out by foul calls? You are aware that the Knicks are the team in blue and not the team in white and green right?

Did I say the Knicks overall? No.

[LTgiants]

Did I say the Knicks overall? No.

No you didn't but the mere fact that you mention that anybody on the Knicks got bailed out by foul calls in this game is ridiculous.

[Damix]

No you didn't but the mere fact that you mention that anybody on the Knicks got bailed out by foul calls in this game is ridiculous.

No its not at all. Lin was driving out of control and slipping, maybe there was a foul, maybe not, but he shouldn't be relying on getting a foul call. Thats an all or nothing play and a needless risk.

There were a lot of non-calls on both sides this game.

[bigbluedefense]

Lin also makes some ridiculous plays. You take the good with the bad. He's still learning. Give him time. He'll cut down on the turnovers with more experience.

He's learning something new each game. I agree that he's turning it over too much, and he's reckless with the ball, but give it time.

I think to be fair, there were a lot of passes that weren't bad, but his teammates weren't looking for the ball. I think that's their fault more than his, you should always be ready for the ball.

Just give it time. He'll get better. No need to panic. He's still a very good player who's learning.

[Rosebud]

Lin also makes some ridiculous plays. You take the good with the bad. He's still learning. Give him time. He'll cut down on the turnovers with more experience.

He's learning something new each game. I agree that he's turning it over too much, and he's reckless with the ball, but give it time.

I think to be fair, there were a lot of passes that weren't bad, but his teammates weren't looking for the ball. I think that's their fault more than his, you should always be ready for the ball.

Just give it time. He'll get better. No need to panic. He's still a very good player who's learning.

I love how chilled out you've become about the Knicks. Agree with you on that completely.

[bigbluedefense]

I love how chilled out you've become about the Knicks. Agree with you on that completely.

It took me a year to get back into my basketball zone. I've been away from the sport for so long (kind of boycotted it when the Knicks became a complete joke bc I couldn't take it anymore) that I forgot a lot about the sport.

Now I'm more understanding.

[Forenci]

I hate Melo. He has been really horrendous this year. I understand he can score like few others in crunch time but what you do the other 30+ minutes of the game matters too.

[Giantsfan1080]

People were complaining he was to much of a ballhog and now that he was trying to assimilate into the offense better by passing more people are complaining he's not doing enough.

[bigbluedefense]

Melo is not the problem at all. He's being scapegoated right now.

Give it time. Amare's legs are finally coming back, Melo is passing the ball well, we'll get better.

My concerns are Jeremy Lin getting figured out, and we have to get better production from the 2 guard position offensively.

And D'Antoni just isn't a good coach. In a close game, he always gets outcoached.

But Lin is my concern. Teams figured him out. If he can't learn to go left we're screwed.

[Forenci]

I mean, I've always disliked Carmelo Anthony. This is nothing new for me. He's not a good passer, he's not a good defender, and the one thing he's supposed to be good at (scoring) he's doing at an incredibly inefficient rate.

He's a good player but I've never liked him and wouldn't hesitate to trade him for someone like CP3 (not that this would ever happen, but I'm just speaking generally).

[Rosebud]

It took me a year to get back into my basketball zone. I've been away from the sport for so long (kind of boycotted it when the Knicks became a complete joke bc I couldn't take it anymore) that I forgot a lot about the sport.

Now I'm more understanding.

Yeah, I had the same problem, I just couldn't root for the teams Isiah was putting together. Donnie Walsh and Gallo brought me back.

[LTgiants]

Shumpert might be starting tonight.

[bigbluedefense]

I actually like him as our energy guy off the bench.

I'd normally kill JR Smith, but him playing means Billy Walker doesn't, so it's a blessing in disguise.

We'll go as far as Lin's development this year takes us. If he continues to struggle going left, continue to make way too many boneheaded passes and turnovers and continues to just run right into the defense and hope something happens, we're in trouble.

He has to adjust to the adjustments. Teams know how to defend him now. When he attacks the hoop, we need a trail guy to attack with him. And can we please run pick and roll with Stat?

[Rosebud]

I mean, I've always disliked Carmelo Anthony. This is nothing new for me. He's not a good passer, he's not a good defender, and the one thing he's supposed to be good at (scoring) he's doing at an incredibly inefficient rate.

He's a good player but I've never liked him and wouldn't hesitate to trade him for someone like CP3 (not that this would ever happen, but I'm just speaking generally).

Carmelo has shown though that he can be an excellent defender at times and he's made way too many absolutely beautiful passes this season that would argue with him not being a good passer. The team's growing in a ****** up, lockout shortened season, that's the biggest part of why all of our guys aren't playing great regularly. Melo isn't a concern in my eyes, he's been a great team player and bought into not needing to score every bucket.

What worries me is Jeremy Lin getting comfortable playing with our stars, him and Chandler have chemistry, him and Novak have chemistry, him and Melo don't but aren't terrible and him and Amar'e are just out of sync. That's why I want to see Amar'e running with Baron Davis and the second unit and Novak spending more time with the starters. Let's make things a little easier on Lin by opening up the lane more so he can get chemistry with Melo, meanwhile we also get Amar'e going as Baron Davis could focus on Amar'e the way line got to with Chandler when our forwards where out.

Amar'e would still come on to close the game, but he'd have better momentum going so that when the ball finds it's way out to him for jumper he's already got his rhythm going.

Plus this way, if Jeremy Lin starts to regress and we have to go to Baron as the closing PG, at least he'll already have figured out exactly where to get Stat the ball, the way line is having such a tough time doing.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

What worries me is that Amare is currently a steaming pile of crap.

[bigbluedefense]

What worries me is that Amare is currently a steaming pile of crap.

Not lately. He's lost the weight he gained this offseason and the past 2 games he seems to have his legs back. Last night was by far his best game. He's playing fast, above the rim, and his jumper is falling again.

Give him a week or so and I think he'll be back. That extra weight he added this year was a terrible mistake. He's 5 lbs away from last year's playing weight and the results are showing.

[LTgiants]

No Chandler or Jeffries tonight.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm trying to exercise my stance on patience with this team...

....but yesterday really pissed me off.

[Rosebud]

No Chandler. No Jeffries. No one with a clue about how to pass the ball to Amar'e. Uh...we need Chandler back and let Amar'e play with Baron. The two PG lineup with Lin and Baron was pretty sweet to. Lets Lin play some off-guard and gives Baron some work with the big guns. And personally I'm starting to think that if this team makes a run in the playoffs this year, it'll be Baron running things in crunch time since he's the more natural co-ordinator who can utilize everybody. Lin still has time to learn, but I don't think he'll be there this year.

[bigbluedefense]

Lin's defense is terrible. And he can't go left at all. The magic is starting to wear off. Having that said, he's still good enough with a rotation with Baron to make our offense work.

I just see bad coaching. We go with a super small lineup that can't play D at all or rebound, we don't adjust, D'Antoni just seems to always get out coached in crunch time. I just hate D'Antoni so much.

This team is too talented to play like this. I see progress in some ways, but then we go reverse in other ways. When are they going to put it together? They just aren't playing up to their potential.

[LTgiants]

Now its Lins fault?

It has nothing to do with the star player playing like crap on both sides of the floor? It has nothing to do with the fact that he is having trouble fitting his game in with the rest of the team?

Oh no blame Jeremy Lin it's all his fault.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm not saying it's all Lin's fault. I'm not blaming any particular player, I think we have a talented roster, it's just not gelling. And Chandler gets hurt at the worst possible time.

I actually think Melo is doing a good job of adjusting to Lin, although he got back into bad habits in the 2nd half last night. But for the most part, he's been a good trooper since he's come back.

He's passed the ball. Amare is getting his legs back, he's coming along.

The problem is Melo and Amare just don't buy into playing defense for 4 quarters. That's the biggest problem with this team. When your 2 stars don't commit to defense, you will be an inconsistent team. And D'Antoni isn't the guy to get in their ass for a lack of hustle on defense.

[LTgiants]

There isn't many coaches out there that can get either one of them to be good defenders.

Melo is always going to be the same player who holds the ball way to long because he likes to go 1 on 1. Killing the time cause he takes forever to make his decision and figure out what the hell he actually wants to do with the ball.

It doesn't help the gelling process when if you don't pass him the ball as soon as he calls for it or you decide to take a shot for yourself your "star" is giving you dirty looks and complaining.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't think he's been as bad as he's being made out to be. I've seen him pass plenty.

Turnovers and defense is what's killing us. I'm hoping the defense gets a little better again once Chandler and Jeffries comes back. But the turnovers, the turnovers are just killer right now.

You can't deny that Lin is just turning it over way too much. How many times have you seen him just torpedo his body into the defense, slip, fall, and turn it over? How many bad passes has he made where he tries to force it into a tight window? How many times have you seen him just run right into the defense and just get lost in there trying to make something out of nothing?

He's gotta be more careful with that ball. Melo has to D up for 4 quarters, ditto for Stat, and Stat has to catch the damn ball, he has no hands at all, Fields has to work on that J, ditto for Shump, we just have a lot of work to do as a team.

But they're very capable of fixing their problems. These are all very correctable problems. It's just frustrating waiting for them to put it together and it's just not happening.

[LTgiants]

I don't think he's been as bad as he's being made out to be. I've seen him pass plenty.

Turnovers and defense is what's killing us. I'm hoping the defense gets a little better again once Chandler and Jeffries comes back. But the turnovers, the turnovers are just killer right now.

You can't deny that Lin is just turning it over way too much. How many times have you seen him just torpedo his body into the defense, slip, fall, and turn it over? How many bad passes has he made where he tries to force it into a tight window? How many times have you seen him just run right into the defense and just get lost in there trying to make something out of nothing?

He's gotta be more careful with that ball. Melo has to D up for 4 quarters, ditto for Stat, and Stat has to catch the damn ball, he has no hands at all, Fields has to work on that J, ditto for Shump, we just have a lot of work to do as a team.

But they're very capable of fixing their problems. These are all very correctable problems. It's just frustrating waiting for them to put it together and it's just not happening.

Passing and moving the ball and passing cause you don't have any option to drive or shoot are different things.

Of course we turn the ball over too much and our defense has sucked. However not all the turnovers are Lin's fault.

Some of them yes absolutely.

How many times have I seen Melo force up a stupid shot? How many times have I seen Melo kill the shot clock only to pass it somebody else leaving them to take a bad shot? How many times have I seen Melo make stupid decisions? How many times have I seen Melo brick free throws?

You see I can play the how many times game as well. Id rather take it from Lin the guy who is trying to make plays to help the team win then the guy who seems to care too much about his stat's and his individual accolades.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm not disputing any of your statements at all. I'm just as upset with Melo. But I think Melo is being scapegoated. Everyone is quick to say it's all his fault, and that's not true.

This whole team just isn't playing well. And they're so much better than this. You see them put it together in spurts, but they just can't put it together for 4 quarters or for a long win streak. The inconsistency is just so aggravating.

[LTgiants]

I'm not disputing any of your statements at all. I'm just as upset with Melo. But I think Melo is being scapegoated. Everyone is quick to say it's all his fault, and that's not true.

This whole team just isn't playing well. And they're so much better than this. You see them put it together in spurts, but they just can't put it together for 4 quarters or for a long win streak. The inconsistency is just so aggravating.

People are "scape goating" him simply cause they see has made zero adjustments since coming back and the team is losing again. While when he was out the team was winning and playing good on both ends of the court. Granted against lesser competition then now.

Ya your right on paper they are better team then 4 games under .500.

Maybe if they stop digging themselves into large holes they wouldn't have to fight as hard to get the games back within reason and can actually win games. I know it sounds so simple yet they make it so difficult.

[bigbluedefense]

People are "scape goating" him simply cause they see has made zero adjustments since coming back and the team is losing again. While when he was out the team was winning and playing good on both ends of the court. Granted against lesser competition then now.

Ya your right on paper they are better team then 4 games under .500.

Maybe if they stop digging themselves into large holes they wouldn't have to fight as hard to get the games back within reason and can actually win games. I know it sounds so simple yet they make it so difficult.

I would also like to see D'Antoni mix and match our units better. He doesn't play situations very well. He is capable of putting a defensive unit out there for times when we need it, he's capable of putting an offensive unit out there when we need to run and create a lot of floor spacing, and he can have a decent mix of the 2 as our starting unit, but he just doesn't play situations.

I think that win streak was a combination of the team playing weak competition, teams not understanding how to defend Lin, and the Knicks were having a lot of fun out there.

They're not playing loose right now. Too much thinking. Melo is trying too hard not to screw up and in turn is screwing up, Lin is trying to hard to adjust his game and in turn is screwing up, Stat just can't get the floor spacing he needs with Chandler on the court, there's just a lot of parts that just aren't gelling and it's really frustrating to watch.

And I think this team is mentally weak.

[LTgiants]

I would also like to see D'Antoni mix and match our units better. He doesn't play situations very well. He is capable of putting a defensive unit out there for times when we need it, he's capable of putting an offensive unit out there when we need to run and create a lot of floor spacing, and he can have a decent mix of the 2 as our starting unit, but he just doesn't play situations.

I think that win streak was a combination of the team playing weak competition, teams not understanding how to defend Lin, and the Knicks were having a lot of fun out there.

They're not playing loose right now. Too much thinking. Melo is trying too hard not to screw up and in turn is screwing up, Lin is trying to hard to adjust his game and in turn is screwing up, Stat just can't get the floor spacing he needs with Chandler on the court, there's just a lot of parts that just aren't gelling and it's really frustrating to watch.

And I think this team is mentally weak.

Well they were having fun because they were playing well and didn't have to cater their games to make certain players happy. They were just going out there and playing basketball.

Well its not like he can go and bench Stat or bench Melo for long periods of time. he is basically forced to put the best lineup he can around them.

Really the only move you can make is the move he made which is making Fields your 2nd unit 3 and moving Shumpert into the starting lineup and letting JR Smith play his natural position off the bench.

The hope of it I assume was Shumpert plays better D then Fields and would be a better shooter which would open things up for the rest of them if he knocks down his shots making the d account for him more.

The downside is less time Lin and Fields are together.

They are playing good teams and trying to make things work on the fly in a shortened season.

[bigbluedefense]

I actually like Shump's energy off the bench. I don't want us to throw Shump into the fire this year, I rather let him develop off the bench, and maybe after an offseason where he works on that jumpshot, we can plug him into the starting lineup next year.

[LTgiants]

I actually like Shump's energy off the bench. I don't want us to throw Shump into the fire this year, I rather let him develop off the bench, and maybe after an offseason where he works on that jumpshot, we can plug him into the starting lineup next year.


What fire? he would not be relied upon as if he was a top guy. There are plenty of teams that start off with guys in the starting lineup but they end up playing most of their minutes with the 2nd unit.

He is a better 2 guard then Fields. Fields is better of being a small forward. Since he is to slow to guard two's and his jumper is still a straight line drive. Also Iman is better as a starter then JR smith.

JR is a bench scorer.

[bigbluedefense]

I was hoping JR would merely be a guy who can come in and take Billy Walker minutes. I don't want JR playing too many minutes, not a huge Smith fan.

I agree that he's a better 2 guard, he's a better player period. But I feel like he gives us a spark coming off the bench, I like him in that role for this year at least. Just bc you come off the bench doesn't mean that you play less minutes. He can be like Manu was for the Spurs, coming off the bench and giving the team a lift in the middle of the 1st quarter.

[Rosebud]

This isn't a video game bro. Guys need to play together to develop chemistry and be able to smoothly move the ball. The team just hasn't had that opportunity this season so Mike's having to use games to practice and grow the team. I think that's why we saw him stick so rigidly to his 2 separate units until Chandler and Jeffries got hurt. It's just too simple to say that everything's Mike D's fault, I'm sure a couple guys like Popovich and Phil Jackson could be doing better with what Mike's had to deal with this season, but not by much.

Our starting PG wasn't even on the roster when the season started. Our backup and only other PG wasn't healthy to play until just before the Allstar break. Neither of them have had a chance to get any chemistry with our most good-pass-dependent player other than Novak and Chandler, Stat. Our best player has missed a lot of games. And now our starting Center and defensive anchor is missing games. All while having very limited practice time and a barrage of games.

I still think Mike's a good coach in many ways. He really preaches a fluid and ball moving offense, which makes a team more efficient, gets everybody involved and lets your big shot makers get into a flow by taking easier, more comfortable shots early. Most of the time he draws up good plays off of the in bounds, something a lot of NBA coaches are terrible at. He's a creative coach who finds ways to create mismatches and take advantage of his players' talents once he trusts guys and they have chemistry.

He does have his issues that he'll get criticized for, he's not the type who tinkers much and that does bite him in the ass when he's slow to call a TO to end a run or switch up the rotation to bring in a guy he doesn't trust, but overall I look at the good and the bad and now that we have Woodson to help run the D I gladly take Mike D.

Lin still has a lot to learn and I think he will, but right now I think he's a little overwhelmed and once Chandler's back I'd like to see Amar'e spending most of his time on the court with Baron, that way Lin can have a Chandler, Novak and Melo front court so there's room in the paint, he has the PnR to Chandler that he's figured out to fall back on and he can focus on figuring out how best to work with Melo. Meanwhile Baron and Stat get to build chemistry and Amar'e can start building on his better play off late, especially once the team stops sucking at passing him the ball.

[Rosebud]

**** YOU, JAMES "HEY ISIAH, THIS IS HOW WE BASKETBALL, RIGHT?" DOLAN. Yeah our team is struggling but they were going to struggle this season and I really feel like Mike D would be perfect with our pieces once they had time to grow together and into the system. *sigh* This better be because Phil Jackson has shown genuine interest in signing with the Knicks and not because we're planning getting that fucknut from Kentucky.

[bigbluedefense]

I'm not a D'Antoni fan. Never was. Never will be. So I don't mind him being fired.

But having that said, I hate WHY he got fired. Let's be real, he got fired bc Melo said fire him or I want a trade, and management listened to that locker room cancer.

Melo has to go too. I'm done with Melo. He's a cancer.

[Rosebud]

I'm not a D'Antoni fan. Never was. Never will be. So I don't mind him being fired.

But having that said, I hate WHY he got fired. Let's be real, he got fired bc Melo said fire him or I want a trade, and management listened to that locker room cancer.

Melo has to go too. I'm done with Melo. He's a cancer.

I think it's ******** to fire a coach who's had the kind of success Mike D has in a season like this with a team like this. Especially when it means Mike Woodson and his beloved "everyone get out on the perimeter and we're guaranteed to have an iso mismatch!" offense, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that that was just the tards on the roster in Atlanta, but our second unit was doing that tonight and I hate seeing a team waste the fact that there's 5 of them.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

I'm willing to give Melo another chance. Just because he can be so ******* good and I'm not a fan of D'Antoni (at least not with the roster we have. Easier to replace a coach than a whole roster).

In regards to Melo however, I don't know if it's being out of shape/hurt/whatever, but the dude has no explosion around the rim anymore (much like Amare). What made Melo such an amazing scorer was his ability to play bully ball and completely manhandle his defender with the threat of a jumper. Now it's just constant jumpers (and he's not exactly Durant like there) or misses/blocked shots when going to the rim.

[Forenci]

Well, I give credit to the team for not getting swept but we still have a lot of needs and very little room to maneuver this off-season.

Despite what you've said in the past BBD, the bench is not good. It is crap. And getting a quality bench is harder than you think. Jeff van Gundy highlighted our needs pretty well. We need an offensive post presence and shooters. Good ones. Not one's like JR Smith and Steve Novak. Novak is a good shooter but he's afraid to shoot the ball if anyone comes even remotely close to him.

And I don't know what the hell is wrong with Woodson. I mean, Landry Fields isn't that good, but my god he's a thousand times better than JR Smith. JR Smith is a rare player who actually hurts your team just by having him on the court with his ****** defense and shot chucking. I know Toney Douglas is a chucker and Fields isn't good but at least they don't hurt us when they're on the court.

We have a lot of needs and no cap space. We'll need to execute some solid trades or find some other way to build the team. And sadly we have no draft picks because this years draft is fairly deep.

The biggest thing we have to hope for is that Jeremy Lin wasn't just a flash in the pan. If he continues to bring a high level of play like he did this year, this team can be really good. If he regresses or just doesn't improve over last year then we're pretty much dead in the water.

[Hurricanes25]

Bring back:
Landry Fields- Bring him back as a backup.
Jared Jeffries- Good defender off the bench.
Steve Novak- If defenders actually stick him, he’s useless but too many guys leave him open so yeah…
Jeremy Lin- I want him back. Undecided on whether he is a starter or not.
Josh Harrellson- Good post defender.

JR Smith has a player option. I hope he goes elsewhere.
Davis, Bibby, Walker, and Gadzuric- We should let them walk.

As Stephen A. put it, I hope the Knicks can find a sucka that will take Amar’e off our hands.

[LTgiants]

Outside of Harrellson and Lin I don't care if most of the guys don't come back. I would certainly not give any of them pay raises.

Fields: I will offer him his Qualifying offer of a million nothing else if someone wants to pay more for him trade him and take back what you can

Smith: Let him chase the MLE from somebody in FA

Novak: If he wants to take the minimum ok otherwise you can go.

Jeffries: Again I would only offer the minimum. If he wants more I have no problem going with Harrellson.

Bibby: Rather have Bibby over Toney Douglas.

Douglas: Trade him for w/e you get. If somebody offers you a 2nd round pick for him take it cause I don't think anybody will offer you a player with even a bit of a pulse.

Baron: Let him retire

[Rosebud]

Lin and Harrelson have to come back. Doesn't leave us with many ways to add to our team. Fields, Novak, Jeffries and JR all better than what we'd be able to bring in for their salaries, Fields his QO, Novak and Jeffries on minimum salaries and JR on his option. We'd still need a backup Center amd a backup point guard.

Lin/???
Shumpert/JR/Fields
Melo/Jeffries/Novak
Stat/Jorts
Tyson/???

What we need is a coach that'll get us out of this isoball that Mike Woodson preaches and Carmelo adores. Any system that moves the ball and keeps us from stagnating.

[LTgiants]

You mean similar to a coach we already had but got ran out of town? lol

[bigbluedefense]

I have no problem with Mike Woodson. Look at the hand he was dealt. A team decimated by injuries and that had no identity or will, he went on a tear with them to end the sesason then faced the best team in the East in the 1st round and faced even more injuries and got bounced out of the first round.

Woodson is a good coach. Give him a healthy roster and a full year and we'll do just fine. I am not a Landry Fields fan at all, I think he's awful, so I don't necessarily care if he comes back or not. The guy has such a terrible shot. And sorry, as bad as Smith is, he's better than Fields. At least he can create his own shot, Fields just knows how to run a fast break, and slash to to the basket, that's it. Cut off his lane and he's toast. He's not even a great defender or passer.

Novak is a good regular season player. He'll help us win in the regular season with his floor spacing. And he's cheap, bring him back.

What we need is more shooters. We have a post presence, Melo posts up plenty. But we need shooters to create floor spacing, right now we have too many guys who need to attack the hoop to score, and there's a log jam. We need shooters. They'll space out the floor, maybe free up some space for Amare to operate, and Melo to work the elbow like he always does.

The problem is Shump will never be a shooter, Lin won't ever be a consistent one, and Chandler clearly won't ever be one. So that leaves us stuck.

[Forenci]

I have no problem with Mike Woodson. Look at the hand he was dealt. A team decimated by injuries and that had no identity or will, he went on a tear with them to end the sesason then faced the best team in the East in the 1st round and faced even more injuries and got bounced out of the first round.

Woodson is a good coach. Give him a healthy roster and a full year and we'll do just fine. I am not a Landry Fields fan at all, I think he's awful, so I don't necessarily care if he comes back or not. The guy has such a terrible shot. And sorry, as bad as Smith is, he's better than Fields. At least he can create his own shot, Fields just knows how to run a fast break, and slash to to the basket, that's it. Cut off his lane and he's toast. He's not even a great defender or passer.

Novak is a good regular season player. He'll help us win in the regular season with his floor spacing. And he's cheap, bring him back.

What we need is more shooters. We have a post presence, Melo posts up plenty. But we need shooters to create floor spacing, right now we have too many guys who need to attack the hoop to score, and there's a log jam. We need shooters. They'll space out the floor, maybe free up some space for Amare to operate, and Melo to work the elbow like he always does.

The problem is Shump will never be a shooter, Lin won't ever be a consistent one, and Chandler clearly won't ever be one. So that leaves us stuck.

That is just not true. No offense BBD but JR Smith is ******* terrible. Like one of the worst players in the NBA terrible.

He is a worse defender than Fields and unlike Fields he's never seen a shot he doesn't like. He's a career 43% shooter from the field. That is putrid and he shot 40% this year from the field. That is beyond horrible. Worse, unlike other players who are intelligent, he will continue to take stupid shots and chuck up the ball even when he is having a miserable shooting night. At least Fields is a solid perimeter defender, rebounder, and doesn't take a ton of dumb shots. He's not good either but he's not a moron like Smith. And Smith isn't even that good at creating his shot. He just take stupid threes even when he has a man in front of him.

Also I don't know why you're talking so definite about Lin and Shump. Developing a jump shot is arguably one of the few skills a player can continue to improve upon as they gain more time and experience in the NBA. What is harder to teach is athleticism, defense, and ability to get to the rim - all thing Shump can do. Look at Russell Westbrook. He had all the things you couldn't teach and has since developed a sweet mid-range jump shot. Same with Derrick Rose.

As far as Lin goes, there is no reason why he can't gain consistency. His main issue is turnovers - another thing that is correctable (more so than other attributes a player may or may not have).

Now, I'm not saying they will fix it but honestly I don't see why you're writing them off. Even Fields could improve his shot - but I wouldn't retain him unless the price was very low.

And Woodson is not that good of a coach. I feel like any coach could have had the record he did down the stretch when Lin and Melo were playing out of their minds good. I'm not saying we should replace him, but if there is a better option I am all for bringing in someone else.

[Rosebud]

Mike Woodson was clueless in Atlanta so I'm not just judging his ability to coach offense based off of what he did with this team. Melo might not like it, but the way we play is never going to get us deep in the playoffs and it'll keep our offense disjointed and inconsistent.

Fields isn't a bad backup wing, his D actually got better this year, but he needs to find his shot and finish at the rim to be a worthy rotational piece. This year he was terrible.

IMO the biggest needs are a second PG who can either push Lin, or run the second unit, if the coach isn't going to give the team any structure an on floor court general is going to have to. Our other biggest need is a backup C, Jorts is an awesome backup for Stat, but we need someone who can step in when Chandler's on the bench without us having to go small.

[bigbluedefense]

Bump. Lets get this thread going again. Stop hiding Knicks fans!

[gpngc]

It's good. Kidd needs time off he's still effective but he's plodding right now and we need him in May and June not now.

Felton's D scares me at times.

It's just a lot of inconsistency in terms of contributions from night to night. I don't think that helps chemistry but it is resulting in Ws which is awesome. There are a bunch of questions.

Can we stay healthy going forward? We are old and our guys traditionally get nicked up, even this year.

Who's doing what and where? Is Amare a finishing 5 player? Is Shumpert a finishing 5 player or even someone who can contribute offensively at all? What about Camby/Sheed? Are they really going to do anything at all for this team?

Prigioni has not improved much which isn't good. I thought he'd be able to get used to the NBA game and develop into a real good player. Just something I've noticed.

If Melo, Chandler, Felton, Kidd, and Amare are all healthy in June, they could make a SERIOUS run. It would all come down to JR Smith even if we were at 100%. If Smith can keep it up, and make no mistake he's been a completely improved and solid player (look at the post above from last year lol), we really can compete with anyone and it will just come down to how well we play (and I think we'd need Miami to play a little down to actually beat them).

Homecourt advantage would be huge but I think what's just as important is that the Pacers are our 2nd round matchup. The Bulls scare me.

[bigbluedefense]

Staying healthy for the playoffs is critical for us. I think Camby has a role. I'm concerned about perimeter and transition defense. Pirguoni is awful. If we can trade for a better PG I wouldn't mind that.

Stat needs to give us 20 minutes a night to provide bench scoring. I want to see better ball movement too. We get lazy and I don't like that.

[Forenci]

Meh, I won't say too much because I'm fairly negative about this Knicks team. I'm usually more of an optimist but it's just depressing and somewhat comical how we've gone from a super young team to a super ancient team in such a short time. I'm not talking about trading for Melo or any of that either. I don't really have any issues with that, even though I hate Melo as player/person. He's been good this year though. Stat has aged like 200 years since we got him. What an awful deal that turned out to be. Still never will be a fan of the Chandler signing. Giving up a chance at a third star for a one dimensional player? Silly to me.

I suppose unlike other sports, 90% of the time you can basically predict who has a chance at the finals in basketball. I just don't see it being us. Nor will it be anytime soon and considering how damn old we are I don't see it getting any easier as the season and playoffs commence.

Our ball movement isn't lazy either, it's that Mike Woodson likes iso ball. He's a good defensive coach but sadly a god awful offensive mind.

I just hate a lot of the players on our team too. Melo is a douche. Kidd is a piece of **** human being. No one else is super likable.

Also funny how gpngc is saying what I said months ago about Felton's defense and I got slammed by BBD and Rob for it. He's not a good defender. He's a bad scorer. He's just not that good. He's a very good ball handler and a solid distributor but overall I don't consider him a good player.

[Hurricanes25]

Staying healthy for the playoffs is critical for us. I think Camby has a role. I'm concerned about perimeter and transition defense. Pirguoni is awful. If we can trade for a better PG I wouldn't mind that.

Stat needs to give us 20 minutes a night to provide bench scoring. I want to see better ball movement too. We get lazy and I don't like that.

I'm not really too concerned with the perimeter D. A part of that is because of Shumpert. It's obvious that he's not fully back yet from the injury. I think once he gets back into game shape and gets comfortable on the knee, he'll get back to what he was last year, defensively. It's just gonna take some time.

[bigbluedefense]

Meh, I won't say too much because I'm fairly negative about this Knicks team. I'm usually more of an optimist but it's just depressing and somewhat comical how we've gone from a super young team to a super ancient team in such a short time. I'm not talking about trading for Melo or any of that either. I don't really have any issues with that, even though I hate Melo as player/person. He's been good this year though. Stat has aged like 200 years since we got him. What an awful deal that turned out to be. Still never will be a fan of the Chandler signing. Giving up a chance at a third star for a one dimensional player? Silly to me.

I suppose unlike other sports, 90% of the time you can basically predict who has a chance at the finals in basketball. I just don't see it being us. Nor will it be anytime soon and considering how damn old we are I don't see it getting any easier as the season and playoffs commence.

Our ball movement isn't lazy either, it's that Mike Woodson likes iso ball. He's a good defensive coach but sadly a god awful offensive mind.

I just hate a lot of the players on our team too. Melo is a douche. Kidd is a piece of **** human being. No one else is super likable.

Also funny how gpngc is saying what I said months ago about Felton's defense and I got slammed by BBD and Rob for it. He's not a good defender. He's a bad scorer. He's just not that good. He's a very good ball handler and a solid distributor but overall I don't consider him a good player.

I don't get you man. So you liked our team when we sucked, we had ****** players and a ****** coach, but now were the 2 seed with a good coach and good players you're not into the makeup of the team? Wth?

I admit, I didn't like the Chandler signing at first but he's been worth his weight in gold. That was an excellent signing. Our mistake wasn't amnesting Stat but what's done is done.

And age is overrated. The Celtics have been ancient for the past 3 years and have fielded competitive teams. You just have to manage your roster differently. As long as we monitor minutes and keep guys healthy for the playoffs we'll be fine.

And yeah we have turds on the team. Most good players are turds. Give me e turd that is Melo over a nice guy like Gallo any day of the week. You don't win with nice guys. Not everyone is Durant.

I think this team can contend. Miami is obviously the team to beat in the East, but if you pay close enough attention, Grunwald built this team to beat the Heat. The size in the front court will give them problems. We have shooters as well. We beat them convincingly both times we played them. We have a punchers chance. And that's all you could ask for. This is a good team. Even if they're old.

And the great thing about an old team is short contracts. By the time Stat becomes expendable we can reshape the roster in 2 years. We'll be fine.

And Woodson got to 50 wins faster than any Knicks coach ever, including Van Gundy who I loved. Not too shabby. He's a hell of a coach. Never got the credit he deserved in Atlanta.

[Forenci]

I don't get you man. So you liked our team when we sucked, we had ****** players and a ****** coach, but now were the 2 seed with a good coach and good players you're not into the makeup of the team? Wth?

I admit, I didn't like the Chandler signing at first but he's been worth his weight in gold. That was an excellent signing. Our mistake wasn't amnesting Stat but what's done is done.

And age is overrated. The Celtics have been ancient for the past 3 years and have fielded competitive teams. You just have to manage your roster differently. As long as we monitor minutes and keep guys healthy for the playoffs we'll be fine.

And yeah we have turds on the team. Most good players are turds. Give me e turd that is Melo over a nice guy like Gallo any day of the week. You don't win with nice guys. Not everyone is Durant.

I think this team can contend. Miami is obviously the team to beat in the East, but if you pay close enough attention, Grunwald built this team to beat the Heat. The size in the front court will give them problems. We have shooters as well. We beat them convincingly both times we played them. We have a punchers chance. And that's all you could ask for. This is a good team. Even if they're old.

And the great thing about an old team is short contracts. By the time Stat becomes expendable we can reshape the roster in 2 years. We'll be fine.

And Woodson got to 50 wins faster than any Knicks coach ever, including Van Gundy who I loved. Not too shabby. He's a hell of a coach. Never got the credit he deserved in Atlanta.

Well I liked when we were young because we had SO much potential in terms of bringing in great players. We had a chance at so many guys, even after we signed Stat. We had a REAL chance at Melo, Stat and CP3. We blew that when we were idiotic and signed Chandler. Sorry he will never be worth his contract or having him on the team because signing him cost us much more than just 60 million dollars. It cost us a chance at building a team capable of competing with the Heat year in and year out.

Age isn't overrated at all. Big deal, the Celtics won a championship. Not only that but it was BECAUSE of their age they didn't win more. Constant injuries, guys getting wore down, etc. And if you think we're good as the Celtics were you're fooling yourself. Pierce was fantastic, KG was like Chandler but with an offensive game, and Allen was just a lights out shooter. Look at the Celtics now. They are going no where in the near future and are foolish enough to keep aging guys around in some faint glimmer they might repeat.

Oh and they had a fantastic coach in Rivers. Woodson isn't that special. He's a great defensive coach but those are a dime a dozen in the NBA. He is terrible offensively. You're not a great coach if you're inept on one side of the ball. Fortunately for us we have a bunch of ball dominating guys so it works right now. It won't work in the playoffs, where as you say, it's a different animal.

And we're built to beat the Heat? So laughable. An ancient Camby and one dimensional defender in Chandler is the size that will beat the Heat? A limited Stat? Absurd. Heat will run all over us and take their defense to another level in the playoffs like they always do. I don't care we've beaten them twice. Means absolutely nothing.

I'm sorry, I just have a hard time taking you seriously when it comes to the Knicks for two reasons: 1) You're a massive homer, 2) Unlike Rosebud and LtGiants you never gave a **** about the Knicks when they sucked. It was only once we did started preforming well that you gave a damn. So don't mock me when you're saying I loved this team when we sucked and don't when we're decent. I love the Knicks, but not the team we're fielding.

I'm just a realist when it comes to basketball. It's not like football, hockey or baseball. It's different. We're not beating the Heat. I don't understand how you can even think of that when have had ONE playoff win under Woodson. That's garbage. You're already talking of crushing the Bulls and facing the Heat. I'll be happy if we win more than one damn game for a change.

And being old does hurt us. Mike Woodson doesn't know how to manage an old team properly.

[bigbluedefense]

Well I liked when we were young because we had SO much potential in terms of bringing in great players. We had a chance at so many guys, even after we signed Stat. We had a REAL chance at Melo, Stat and CP3. We blew that when we were idiotic and signed Chandler. Sorry he will never be worth his contract or having him on the team because signing him cost us much more than just 60 million dollars. It cost us a chance at building a team capable of competing with the Heat year in and year out.

Age isn't overrated at all. Big deal, the Celtics won a championship. Not only that but it was BECAUSE of their age they didn't win more. Constant injuries, guys getting wore down, etc. And if you think we're good as the Celtics were you're fooling yourself. Pierce was fantastic, KG was like Chandler but with an offensive game, and Allen was just a lights out shooter. Look at the Celtics now. They are going no where in the near future and are foolish enough to keep aging guys around in some faint glimmer they might repeat.

Oh and they had a fantastic coach in Rivers. Woodson isn't that special. He's a great defensive coach but those are a dime a dozen in the NBA. He is terrible offensively. You're not a great coach if you're inept on one side of the ball. Fortunately for us we have a bunch of ball dominating guys so it works right now. It won't work in the playoffs, where as you say, it's a different animal.

And we're built to beat the Heat? So laughable. An ancient Camby and one dimensional defender in Chandler is the size that will beat the Heat? A limited Stat? Absurd. Heat will run all over us and take their defense to another level in the playoffs like they always do. I don't care we've beaten them twice. Means absolutely nothing.

I'm sorry, I just have a hard time taking you seriously when it comes to the Knicks for two reasons: 1) You're a massive homer, 2) Unlike Rosebud and LtGiants you never gave a **** about the Knicks when they sucked. It was only once we did started preforming well that you gave a damn. So don't mock me when you're saying I loved this team when we sucked and don't when we're decent. I love the Knicks, but not the team we're fielding.

I'm just a realist when it comes to basketball. It's not like football, hockey or baseball. It's different. We're not beating the Heat. I don't understand how you can even think of that when have had ONE playoff win under Woodson. That's garbage. You're already talking of crushing the Bulls and facing the Heat. I'll be happy if we win more than one damn game for a change.

And being old does hurt us. Mike Woodson doesn't know how to manage an old team properly.

If our team is so bad why do we keep winning? Explain that one to me. How are we the 2 seed?

And don't even go there. I was a Knicks fan longer than anyone here. Just bc I didn't post about it didn't mean I wasn't a fan. Why would I post about them? I knew after being a Knicks fan through the Ewing era that there was no point of even getting excited about them until they either cleared their cap space or got the #1 pick. Like you said basketball is different. You know who is gonna compete. The dark ages from 2000 - 2010 were not even remotely interesting for Knicks fans other than laughing at our own mediocrity. So yeah, I'm not gonna post about it. It was a waste of time. Who was there to get excited about?

And yes, I'm a homer. And proud!

I don't get how you can hate Chandler. Centers are so rare in this league. Right here right now name me 3 Centers you'd want over Chandler.

Dwight? When healthy of course, but he's been hurt, he's a *****, and his offense is grossly overrated. Bynum? He's never healthy. Noah? He's basically a younger shorter version of Chandler who is in the same salary range. Hibbert? He's soft.

We have a top tier Center. Defensive player of the year. His size is instrumental for us to use Melo at the 4. We can't do that if we don't have Chandler next to him.

You're way under rating Chandler.

[Forenci]

If our team is so bad why do we keep winning? Explain that one to me. How are we the 2 seed?

And don't even go there. I was a Knicks fan longer than anyone here. Just bc I didn't post about it didn't mean I wasn't a fan. Why would I post about them? I knew after being a Knicks fan through the Ewing era that there was no point of even getting excited about them until they either cleared their cap space or got the #1 pick. Like you said basketball is different. You know who is gonna compete. The dark ages from 2000 - 2010 were not even remotely interesting for Knicks fans other than laughing at our own mediocrity. So yeah, I'm not gonna post about it. It was a waste of time. Who was there to get excited about?

And yes, I'm a homer. And proud!

I don't get how you can hate Chandler. Centers are so rare in this league. Right here right now name me 3 Centers you'd want over Chandler.

Dwight? When healthy of course, but he's been hurt, he's a *****, and his offense is grossly overrated. Bynum? He's never healthy. Noah? He's basically a younger shorter version of Chandler who is in the same salary range. Hibbert? He's soft.

We have a top tier Center. Defensive player of the year. His size is instrumental for us to use Melo at the 4. We can't do that if we don't have Chandler next to him.

You're way under rating Chandler.

When did I say we were bad? I never said that. I said I don't think we're going to do a whole lot in terms of getting in the finals. Yes you've been a Knicks fan longer than anyone here but that's not saying much. I've been a Knicks fan since I was a kid. You just happen to be older.

So your team gets crappy and you just don't follow them? I'm sorry but that's not being a true fan. I still followed them despite them being god awful. I still supported them despite having a terrible head coach. I still followed them knowing damn well it'd be years before they turned it around. And guess what? I still follow them now, even if I don't like the players on the team. And liking players doesn't have anything to do with liking the team. I love the Knicks.

And big deal about Chandler. When's the last time a great center has been apart of winning championships? Shaq with the Lakers? You don't need a great center to win. And I'm not going to hold centers getting injured as a reason to choose them over Chandler. You could argue that Chandler has been fairly injury prone over the course of his career too. I'd take Noah, Dwight, Brook Lopez, Andre Drummond (based more off project-ability), Javale McGee, and Chris Bosh over him. Granted it's not Bosh's true position but its what he plays. Also Tim Duncan, but again, that can be argued due to technical position. Hell, despite your rants against Anderson Varejao the man is a damn good player and center. I don't know why you always knock Brodeur for that when Varejao has played great.

Chandler is a great defensive player. I'm not disputing this. I don't give a **** about his whole, "I'm the defensive captain, I make the team accountable on defense" garbage. No, the head coach makes the team accountable for that. Woodson has done this his entire career.

I'm not saying it would have happened, but a chance at CP3 FAR FAR FAR outweighs a one dimensional center. You don't need a great center to win in the NBA anymore. And I don't even have a problem with the deal itself, really. Big men and players get super overpaid in the NBA. It's the opportunity cost by signing him which makes him and overrated player and signing.

[bigbluedefense]

Who said I stopped following? I just said I never posted about them. Like you do now. You watch the games you just don't talk about them.

I did the same. I still followed them. I didn't watch every game but I saw at least 40% of em. I actually rooted for them to lose. Bc I felt we needed good draft picks to rebuild. But we never lost enough to get the 1 overall or have a chance at it, or we pissed away the picks. If rooting for them to lose makes me a bad fan then I'm guilty of that. I felt it was for the greater good of the team. But I followed them.

I admit I was excited when we got Steph. And Malik. Hell even Nazr.

I hated the trade for mcdyess. I wanted Stat that year or Nene. And I wanted Boozer in the 2nd. That's why Stat is my favorite Knick. I loved him before he ever was a Knick. I wanted Bynum instead of Frye.

Anyway long story short I always followed the team. Just never talked about it.

[OSUGiants17]

http://i49.tinypic.com/311or3r.jpg

Made a quick Shumpert sig if anyone wants it

[Forenci]

Except my reasoning for not posting was completely different. I still follow and watch 80-90% of the games. The reason I don't post about it is two fold, though. The main reason is I'm just busy with grad school. For me, I'd rather spend my time talking about the Giants than anything else.

Two, I don't post in the NBA thread because it's basically just became a name calling session. Oh lets make fun of Brodeur all the time because he has a different opinion, oh lets make fun of somebody else. It's become somewhat of a bullying affair and it's stupid to me.

[gpngc]

When did I say we were bad? I never said that. I said I don't think we're going to do a whole lot in terms of getting in the finals. Yes you've been a Knicks fan longer than anyone here but that's not saying much. I've been a Knicks fan since I was a kid. You just happen to be older.

So your team gets crappy and you just don't follow them? I'm sorry but that's not being a true fan. I still followed them despite them being god awful. I still supported them despite having a terrible head coach. I still followed them knowing damn well it'd be years before they turned it around. And guess what? I still follow them now, even if I don't like the players on the team. And liking players doesn't have anything to do with liking the team. I love the Knicks.

And big deal about Chandler. When's the last time a great center has been apart of winning championships? Shaq with the Lakers? You don't need a great center to win. And I'm not going to hold centers getting injured as a reason to choose them over Chandler. You could argue that Chandler has been fairly injury prone over the course of his career too. I'd take Noah, Dwight, Brook Lopez, Andre Drummond (based more off project-ability), Javale McGee, and Chris Bosh over him. Granted it's not Bosh's true position but its what he plays. Also Tim Duncan, but again, that can be argued due to technical position. Hell, despite your rants against Anderson Varejao the man is a damn good player and center. I don't know why you always knock Brodeur for that when Varejao has played great.

Chandler is a great defensive player. I'm not disputing this. I don't give a **** about his whole, "I'm the defensive captain, I make the team accountable on defense" garbage. No, the head coach makes the team accountable for that. Woodson has done this his entire career.

I'm not saying it would have happened, but a chance at CP3 FAR FAR FAR outweighs a one dimensional center. You don't need a great center to win in the NBA anymore. And I don't even have a problem with the deal itself, really. Big men and players get super overpaid in the NBA. It's the opportunity cost by signing him which makes him and overrated player and signing.

This very center two years ago? With Kidd by his side, an unconscious elite scoring matchup-nightmare at the 4, and role players stepping up.

[bigbluedefense]

This very center two years ago? With Kidd by his side, an unconscious elite scoring matchup-nightmare at the 4, and role players stepping up.

Damn if only we had the same formula we'd be set!

[bigbluedefense]

I don't get why Woodson decided to experiment with his lineup vs the Clippers of all teams today. That lineup was brutal. Hopefully we can bounce back. Pirgioni is awful btw. I wish we could find a better 3rd PG so we can cut him.

[gpngc]

I don't get why Woodson decided to experiment with his lineup vs the Clippers of all teams today. That lineup was brutal. Hopefully we can bounce back. Pirgioni is awful btw. I wish we could find a better 3rd PG so we can cut him.

Eric Bledsoe.......

[bigbluedefense]

Eric Bledsoe.......

We don't have the assets to trade for him. I'd love to have him.

[bigbluedefense]

Forenci is right too. Felton is pissing me off. Get your fat ass in gear Felton. He's been terribly inefficient lately.

[Rosebud]

Felton being terribly inefficient? The **** you say...

[Forenci]

I mean, it's not surprising at all. He's in his career norms which is why I was a bit surprised when you guys hammered me for saying he wasn't that good.

He is what he is. Average/below average. Poor/inconsistent defender, poor scorer, and solid distributor.

[bigbluedefense]

To me, him being an average offensive player was good enough. At least that's what I thought. But until Shump can get healthy and give us some perimeter defense we're in trouble, bc Felton's main issue is there.

He's good enough to me from an offensive perspective, he's not great, but we don't need great, but we need some perimeter defense in the worst way.

For the price though, I think he's more than earned his paycheck. We got good value with him.

Kidd is breaking down. Natural, I expected that. We're forced to play him way too many minutes right now. We need Camby to get healthy asap, we need Kidd to play less minutes, and we need Shump to heal quickly.

And if Sheed can't get healthy, we need to sign Martin asap. We need another body.

[bigbluedefense]

I heard something interesting on the radio today:

In the 1st quarter, we rank 26th in the league on defense. In the 2nd quarter, 26th. In the 3rd quarter, 14th (i think).

In the 4th quarter...4th. So that tells me this team is capable of playing good defense and turns it on when the game starts winding down, and really clamp up in the 4th when they make their run.

My question is, why can't they do it for 4 quarters? And is this evidence that perhaps the defense while mediocre now, will intensify in the playoffs when the games are more important?

[Forenci]

I just don't like how old we are. That's the main reason I don't like this team. The Celtics lucked out and had everyone healthy that season they won it all. After that it was chronic injuries. Their success after that came from the development of Rondo which really made them successful. He doesn't get enough credit for their first ring. The Celtics basically almost had four star/great players.

I just don't see that happening for us. We're too old. We're too slow. The Heat in the playoffs will run ALL over us.

[bigbluedefense]

My concern is just that: teams that can run all day. The Rockets killed us this year by doing that, and that's the blueprint on beating us. Quick guards who can run all day.

But I'm hoping that Shumpert can alleviate some of that. He needs to get healthy. And hopefully we can go big with Camby back (we desperately need him back) and that can counter some of these guards bc when they win off the dribble they have to run into Chandler and Camby in the post.

That's all we can hope for.

The other way to beat us is the Chicago blueprint. They have Deng who can guard Melo 1 on 1, and they flood the 3 point line with defenders. That takes away our shooters.

But Stat getting better should help there. Bc now we'll have 2 post players. If Stat can give us 20 minutes a night the way he has, we'll be fine there.

But perimeter defense is scaring me. We need to find some kind of solution there.

[Forenci]

And the thing is the Heat will bump their defense up CONSIDERABLY in the playoffs. Their defense from the regular season to the playoffs is night and day. They absolutely shut teams down in the playoffs. LeBron at the 4 vs Melo in the 4 favors LeBron big time. LeBron is just a much better defender at this point. I don't think we match up well with the Heat all, to be honest.

[bigbluedefense]

My goal is to play the Heat in the ECF. To me anything after that is gravy. Nobody is gonna beat the Heat. They're the best team in the league. But at least show me something. That's all I want. Let's play them for the right to make the Finals. That's all I want, and I think we can conceivably get there.

Now how we match up vs the Heat really depends on the health of our front court IMO. We need all those big bodies healthy and able, bc we're gonna need them to beat up on LeBron and Bosh down low to have any chance.

But why can't we beat everyone else in the East? I think we're capable of doing that. And that's my expectations for this season. Meet the Heat in the ECF. And take it from there.

But this team should set that goal. They are capable of getting there. It's not like the East is loaded like the West. The only other 2 teams we need to worry about are Chicago and Indy, and I think we can beat both of them.

[bigbluedefense]

Our perimeter defense is just terrible. Felton looks like he got fat again and he's pissing me off.

Bc they suck so hard on the perimeter now Chandler is playing on the perimeter and it's taking away our paint presence.

Offensively no one is moving without the ball anymore. They fell into these awful habits and it's not being coached out of them.

The only solutions I can think of is we need to go 2 big with Chandler and Camby. Our offense will naturally take a hit bc now Melo goes to the 3, but our defense would drastically improve bc now we have our paint presence back and a strong paint presence to make up for Guards penetrating our perimeter at will.

And we just have to hope Shump improves his agility with more time. He's slowly getting back to last year.

In the draft they need to look at perimeter defenders. That needs to be the goal of this draft class. We have a 1st and 2nd, we gotta make em count with 2 good perimeter defenders.

[gpngc]

Our perimeter defense is just terrible. Felton looks like he got fat again and he's pissing me off.

Bc they suck so hard on the perimeter now Chandler is playing on the perimeter and it's taking away our paint presence.

Offensively no one is moving without the ball anymore. They fell into these awful habits and it's not being coached out of them.

The only solutions I can think of is we need to go 2 big with Chandler and Camby. Our offense will naturally take a hit bc now Melo goes to the 3, but our defense would drastically improve bc now we have our paint presence back and a strong paint presence to make up for Guards penetrating our perimeter at will.

And we just have to hope Shump improves his agility with more time. He's slowly getting back to last year.

In the draft they need to look at perimeter defenders. That needs to be the goal of this draft class. We have a 1st and 2nd, we gotta make em count with 2 good perimeter defenders.

I think Felton was just a little less fat. Now he's regular fat like he usually is. Fat.

[bigbluedefense]

I think Felton was just a little less fat. Now he's regular fat like he usually is. Fat.

Yeah once that pinky broke it's like his fatass went into fatass mode again.

And Kidd was due for an oil change like 10k miles ago.

So we have a serious perimeter defense problem. And we seriously need to feed Stat in the post whenever he's in the game and Melo isn't. I don't get why he isn't the primary focus of our offense when Melo goes to the bench and he comes in. His post game is actually pretty damn good now, we need to utilize that.

[Forenci]

Probably because Mike Woodson doesn't know how to run an offense.

Just sayin'.

[bigbluedefense]

Here's the problem though. Who are we gonna replace him with? There aren't any HCs available that would be an upgrade to Woodson.