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View Full Version : Jacksonville vs New York: The Maurice Jones-Drew Situation


P-L
11-15-2009, 07:18 PM
They were debating this on ESPN, I was curious as to which side everyone here was on. For those of you who don't know what happened:

Score is: New York - 22, Jacksonville - 21. With under two minutes to go on 2nd & 6 from the 10 yard line Maurice Jones-Drew gets the carry and races towards the endzone. It looks like he has an easy touchdown, but instead he dives down at the one yard line to keep the clock running, as the Jets had no more time outs left. After two kneel downs by David Garrard, Josh Scobee kicked a 21-yard field goal as time expired.

Ok, so here is the question. What would you have done in that situation? Do you take the guaranteed 6 points (7 with the PAT) and give the Jets about 1:30 to work with? Or do you run the clock down and possibly risk a mishandled snap, a shanked kick, or a blocked kick?

tjsunstein
11-15-2009, 07:22 PM
Go for the FG after running the clock down. I remember Westbrook taking a knee a couple years ago against Dallas in a similar situation but his team was up one.

Bengalsrocket
11-15-2009, 07:22 PM
I take the points and trust my defense against a rookie QB in a pressure situation (who wasn't looking that good up to this point in the game anyways).

However, it's hard to argue against what actually happened since it worked and everything :P

Gay Ork Wang
11-15-2009, 07:24 PM
Id take the points. josh scobee is far from spot on and if u miss the kick, your done. i think the jets moving down the field all the way with a rookie qb and no TOs is not that probable

MetSox17
11-15-2009, 07:27 PM
This isn't like video games where you're pretty much guaranteed a good snap, and the defense not blocking it. You have to punch it in. It could have really blown up in MJD's face had something happened with the snap. Take the points. Go for two if you wanna be up by a whole TD.

Take your chances vs a rookie qb to drive his team down the field for a TD with no timeouts.

Todd Bertuzzi
11-15-2009, 07:28 PM
As a Mojo fantasy owner this hurts, especially considering he fumbled at the two earlier. I've also heard that he owns himself in a fantasy league so this move makes no sense to me.

Seriously though you could argue either side. I think you have to be able to rely on your kicker to make the short field goal. If he does punch it in there is always the possibility of the Jets coming back down the field and scoring just like we saw in the Miami/TB game today.

PalmerToCJ
11-15-2009, 07:28 PM
Take the points. If you're ahead 1 there, I agree with the move. If you're down like they were, you absolutely have to take the points.

TitanHope
11-15-2009, 07:29 PM
I definitely take the points.

A TD makes it 28-22, so the Jets would need a TD to win - a FG would do nothing. They have no timeouts to get that TD as well. But, I didn't watch the game, so I dunno if it was reasonable of the Jags to trust their FG unit more than their DEF.

It was the definition of conservative, though. Not only for MoJo to kneel down, but for Garrard to also kneel down twice. Props to MoJo for being a team first guy, but why not run the ball instead of kneeling it? I know there's the possibility of a fumble, but if you don't make the TD, then the clock still runs. If you do, you get the points, and drained the clock to give the Jets less time than they'd have gotten if MJD had initially scored.

Every Jags fan would've blown their top if Scobee missed that FG too.

Kneel like that if you're up. When you're down, I think it's very risky to pass up points and assume you'll make the FG.

P-L
11-15-2009, 07:30 PM
For what it's worth, I think you ALWAYS have to take the points.

JT Jag
11-15-2009, 07:31 PM
Id take the points. josh scobee is far from spot on and if u miss the kick, your done. i think the jets moving down the field all the way with a rookie qb and no TOs is not that probableJosh Scobee hasn't missed a single kick from within 40 yards this year, and has missed just one kick within 30 yards his entire six-year career. That miss was in 2005.

I'd call that pretty spot-on.

Wally03
11-15-2009, 07:33 PM
I think it really come down to the debate of, do you create a situation where you need to make one play to win the game or create a situation where the opponent needs to make a play? Albeit in this case it likely would have really been a couple of plays, but one missed assignment on the kick coverage and there goes the benefit of getting the touchdown which based on the success of the Jag's 2 point conversion might be the difference between OT or a L. I like what the Jaguars did and always prefer creating the situation where I truly control my own destiny as opposed to having to stop someone else from doing something.

Hopefully that makes sense, I've tried to reword it a couple of time and have yet to be truly happy with the result.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-15-2009, 07:33 PM
In that situation, I take the points. But if you're playing the Saints, Colts or Pats, or any other team with a top notch QB, the knee can be a good idea.

JT Jag
11-15-2009, 07:35 PM
In that situation, I take the points. But if you're playing the Saints, Colts or Pats, or any other team with a top notch QB, the knee can be a good idea.I think the Jaguars were more worried about a nutty sextuple-lateral play than they were about Sanchez driving on them.

JRTPlaya21
11-15-2009, 07:36 PM
Take the knee. I've done it against friends in Madden. If you miss the FG well then...

The Unseen
11-15-2009, 07:43 PM
I see both sides of the argument, but there was 1:46 minutes left on the clock. That's about 1:20 for Sanchez to drive down the field. Dustin Keller and Jerricho Cotchery had been getting wide open all game. In a way the risk was greater kicking off, but I could understand doing so.

M.O.T.H.
11-15-2009, 07:57 PM
I couldnt imagine doing this while I was losing. The Westbrook thing was completely different, as was said because, they had the lead.

OzTitan
11-15-2009, 07:59 PM
In Madden FGs are automatic. Not so much in real life, even that close.

I take the TD. How stupid would it have been had the FG been missed or blocked?

umphrey
11-15-2009, 08:07 PM
He did the right thing for his team without a doubt. I don't know if they kneeled it or ran it but the margin for error there is maybe less than a percentage point. Assuming they kneeled it, when has that ever gotten screwed up for a team? I remember DTs knocking Favre down on what seemed like a casual kneel down, no fumbles, so when they are expecting it, it should be easy as cake. Then the kick, it would be hard to screw that up. When you're that close the snap distance usually gets pushed back a few yards to give more time, and the kicker should find it as easy as chipping a golf ball onto a green. The only place I see potential error is the snap, and that should be pretty close to automatic as well. I'd take that over giving the other team the ability to dictate what happens with 1:20 remaining.

I think that's the deal breaker right there. They could have had 4 more points or complete control of what happens the rest of the game. Since they only needed one, I'd take the field goal and complete clock control until the clock strikes 0.

Bengalsrocket
11-15-2009, 08:09 PM
In Madden FGs are automatic. Not so much in real life, even that close.

I take the TD. How stupid would it have been had the FG been missed or blocked?

The FGs aren't automatic for the CPU. in the 2008 Madden for Xbox, even if you play on All Star mode with all the settings cranked you'll get some 99 rated kickers shanking 35 yard kicks (or worse, PATs) lol.

falloutboy14
11-15-2009, 08:12 PM
I think there's a better chance of a team driving 70-80 on you, then there is of a bad FG from that close. I agree with taking the knee down 1.

The Unseen
11-15-2009, 09:01 PM
It's important to note that the Jets wanted the Jaguars to score. They knew they had a better chance of winning if they got the ball back rather than rely on a shanked kick.

Borat
11-15-2009, 09:11 PM
I saw the situation. I was OK with MJD kneeling at the 2. I was OK with the first kneel down by Garrard. I thought the final kneel down was dumb. I would have tried to QB sneak or MJD punch it in at least once. Relying on the FG was risky.

P-L
11-15-2009, 09:14 PM
The actual kick should be easy, but that doesn't account for a possible bad snap or a block.

Borat
11-15-2009, 09:16 PM
Didn't the Jets block one earlier too?

Timbathia
11-15-2009, 09:25 PM
I think there's a better chance of a team driving 70-80 on you, then there is of a bad FG from that close. I agree with taking the knee down 1.

While intuitively you might assume that taking the points is the right thing to do, this is actually the correct answer statistically speaking.

gsorace
11-15-2009, 09:29 PM
The Jags coaching staff told MJD to do it because the Jets were going to let him score to get the ball back with some time left. Its hard to argue against it because it worked.

JT Jag
11-15-2009, 10:34 PM
In the end, I think the Jets would tell you that THEY wished that he would have taken the points.

And that's what matters.

JETS5128
11-15-2009, 10:36 PM
All I know is that if MJD took that TD I would have won in fantasy. Instead, it looks like i'm gonna lose by .78 points

So **** YOU MJD

jag
11-15-2009, 11:21 PM
All I know is that if MJD took that TD I would have won in fantasy. Instead, it looks like i'm gonna lose by .78 points

So **** YOU MJD

If it makes you feel better he apologized to his fantasy owners.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-15-2009, 11:26 PM
If it makes you feel better he apologized to his fantasy owners.

That's awful nice of him, I'm still waiting for my entire fantasy team to apologize to me for last season.

aNYtitan
11-15-2009, 11:48 PM
I can't believe the voting really is leaning towards take the points. I absolutely loved this play. Sure you would take your defense versus a rookie, but he is at home and any number of fluky things can happen (receiver gets open in space, penalties, you never know). MJD did what was needed, take the ball and he knew they were giving him daylight and you just run down the clock. If the kicker misses the field goal, then your cursed, but I'll take the near extra point type of kick, and the guaranteed win then a TD leaving the opposing team about 2 mins to score. I think this voting is being heavily influenced by fantasy points.

Stash
11-15-2009, 11:48 PM
I'd take the points in that situation. If you have the lead, then it's a different story.

dabears10
11-15-2009, 11:50 PM
I think you have to do what the other team would hate for you to do. This includes wasting the remaining amount of time on the clock.

vidae
11-16-2009, 02:03 AM
I loved the move personally. I thought it was the right call. Scobee won't miss from that close and being a fan of a team that loses a lot in the fourth quarter, I take the option for a team to come back on you out of the equation completely.

BlindSite
11-16-2009, 03:08 AM
I think you go for the touchdown if you have a proven defense, Panthers, Redskins, Giants, Eagles, Cowboys, someone who can defend the pass, go for the TD. Don't risk the fumble or botched snap.

**** defense, like JAX, run down the clock and kick it.

Rosebud
11-16-2009, 03:19 AM
I'm a giants fan so I'm used to having to worry about all FGs with Tynes, so I take the points and trust my D/Special Teams not to give up a fluke play.

abaddon41_80
11-16-2009, 06:55 AM
MJD made the right decision. As some people have said, there was a much greater chance of the Jets driving down the field for a touchdown than the Jaguars messing up on a 20 yard field goal.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-16-2009, 07:14 AM
You know who else tried to trust their defense to not blow it?

The Bengals.

http://coloradosportsdesk.com/wp/wp-content/db-vs-cb-brandon-stokley-1.jpg

terribletowel39
11-16-2009, 07:41 AM
I saw the situation. I was OK with MJD kneeling at the 2. I was OK with the first kneel down by Garrard. I thought the final kneel down was dumb. I would have tried to QB sneak or MJD punch it in at least once. Relying on the FG was risky.
This. I would have done it this way. Because the 2nd kneel down was with what?? 40 something seconds left. I would have tried to get it in then. And if not successful, then you kick.

Bengalsrocket
11-16-2009, 07:57 AM
You know who else tried to trust their defense to not blow it?

The Bengals.


Different situation. We were down by 6, a field goal was never an option. We had to score or we would have lost anyways.

NY+Giants=NYG
11-16-2009, 08:50 AM
They were debating this on ESPN, I was curious as to which side everyone here was on. For those of you who don't know what happened:

Score is: New York - 22, Jacksonville - 21. With under two minutes to go on 2nd & 6 from the 10 yard line Maurice Jones-Drew gets the carry and races towards the endzone. It looks like he has an easy touchdown, but instead he dives down at the one yard line to keep the clock running, as the Jets had no more time outs left. After two kneel downs by David Garrard, Josh Scobee kicked a 21-yard field goal as time expired.

Ok, so here is the question. What would you have done in that situation? Do you take the guaranteed 6 points (7 with the PAT) and give the Jets about 1:30 to work with? Or do you run the clock down and possibly risk a mishandled snap, a shanked kick, or a blocked kick?


I guess I would have scored the TD and go for 2 to make it a 29-22 game. Either way if you miss the 2 points, it's still 27-22, and they have to score a TD anyways to win it. But I would play to win and scoring puts me up, and gives them the burden with a rookie QB to march the length of the field and score.

I don't do what Jones-Drew does, because anything can happen with a FG. For instance, with our team Tynes sometimes misses those easy chip shots. Last week Feagles couldn't the snap down and settled for Tynes to kick a FG, so we couldn't get 3 points. So because of stupid stuff like that, I am going for the TD, and put the burden on them with their young QB to win it.

I am not risking it with a FG. If we miss it, then we lose the game basically. Play to win the game! Then give the ball back to the Jets and let them try to win the game.

drowe
11-16-2009, 09:42 AM
I can see both sides. But, if a situation like that is even up for debate, i'd always lean towards getting the points.

I'm curious though if the coach instructed him to do that, or if MJD just did it on his own.

EvilNixon
11-16-2009, 09:53 AM
Take the FG. It's a glorified extra point.

JT Jag
11-16-2009, 10:16 AM
It comes down to this: Do you trust your field goal kicker to hit an extra point, or do you trust the worst pass defense in the NFL to stop an offense that had been hot for most of the second half?

The answer is a no-brainer to me.

SenorGato
11-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Take the knee and go for the win without giving the other team a shot.

The Jets had JUST driven down the field to take the lead, and had been moving the ball fairly well in the second half. It's not even worth the risk considering how bad the Jags needed the win.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Jacksonville did the right thing. Just like the Pats game, its all about the percentages. Taking bad snaps and holds into account, NFL teams convert extra points (which that fg basically was), somewhere between 98 and 99 percent of the time. Unless you think they have a better chance than 98 percent of stopping the Jets drive the field with 1:30 left?

The Unseen
11-16-2009, 12:19 PM
Someone at the Jaguars message board tallied up all the drives the Jaguars have allowed this year that lasted under 2 minutes (if MJD had scored there would have been ~1:45 on the clock)

"Week 2 against Arizona, 2:13 to go in the first half with the Cards on their own 32, Warner throws a TD pass with a minute left on the clock.

Week 2 against Arizona, 7:32 to go in the third quarter with the Cards starting with great field position (our 3, Warner throws the TD with 5:35 to go - just under two minutes.

Week 3 against those pesky Texans, 3:12 to go in the first quarter with the Texans just inside Jaguars territory, Schaub throws for a TD in just over a minute.

Week 4 against the Titans, 1:56 to go in the third quarter with the Titans at their own 20. Touchdown comes on a Collins pass with 26 seconds left in the quarter.

Week 5 against the Seahawks, 6:15 to go in the first half with the Seahawks at our 48, Hasselbeck throws the TD with 4:50 to go in the half.

Week 5 against the Seahawks, 3:06 to go in the first half with the Seahawks at their own 39. In under a minute, Hasselbeck hits Burleson for a 44 yard TD.

Week 5 against who was it again? 11:20 to go in the third quarter, Seahawks at our 32, Hasselbeck passes it in with 10:14 left to play (just over a minute this time).

Week 8 against the winless Titans, 59 seconds to go in the third quarter, Titans at their own 5. First play of the fourth quarter sees Chris Johnson steam for a long TD.

Week 9 against the Chiefs, 4:26 left in the game, KC on their own 29. And with 2:41 left on the clock, Cassel hits Chambers for a TD.

Week 9 against the Chiefs, they get the onside kick after the preceding TD with 2:30 on the clock at their own 32. There's still 1:10 to go when Cassel connects with Chambers for six again.

Week 10 against the Jets, with 3:05 left in the first quarter, Jets get the ball on their own 39. And with 1:14 left, Sanchez throws a TD pass to Cotchery.

By my count that's eleven TDs under two minutes against the Jaguars' defence this season, including one in that very game. Does that field goal still look riskier?"

2 Live Crew
11-16-2009, 12:58 PM
The FG was an extra point basically. The odds on missing an extra point are ridiculously low.

Case in point:

Josh Scobee - Career PAT: 178/181 = 98.3%

So by taking the 20 yd FG with no time left you essentially give yourself around a 98% chance to win.

What are the chances of the Jets driving for a TD had MJD scored? Obviously you can't put a number to that but I would say its easily over a 2% chance.

In the end, the Jags probably win no matter what the decision there. However, if you are playing an elite offense (Ind, Saints, etc...), than taking the FG is by far the better move.

CC.SD
11-16-2009, 01:11 PM
Someone at the Jaguars message board tallied up all the drives the Jaguars have allowed this year that lasted under 2 minutes (if MJD had scored there would have been ~1:45 on the clock)

"Week 2 against Arizona, 2:13 to go in the first half with the Cards on their own 32, Warner throws a TD pass with a minute left on the clock.

Week 2 against Arizona, 7:32 to go in the third quarter with the Cards starting with great field position (our 3, Warner throws the TD with 5:35 to go - just under two minutes.

Week 3 against those pesky Texans, 3:12 to go in the first quarter with the Texans just inside Jaguars territory, Schaub throws for a TD in just over a minute.

Week 4 against the Titans, 1:56 to go in the third quarter with the Titans at their own 20. Touchdown comes on a Collins pass with 26 seconds left in the quarter.

Week 5 against the Seahawks, 6:15 to go in the first half with the Seahawks at our 48, Hasselbeck throws the TD with 4:50 to go in the half.

Week 5 against the Seahawks, 3:06 to go in the first half with the Seahawks at their own 39. In under a minute, Hasselbeck hits Burleson for a 44 yard TD.

Week 5 against who was it again? 11:20 to go in the third quarter, Seahawks at our 32, Hasselbeck passes it in with 10:14 left to play (just over a minute this time).

Week 8 against the winless Titans, 59 seconds to go in the third quarter, Titans at their own 5. First play of the fourth quarter sees Chris Johnson steam for a long TD.

Week 9 against the Chiefs, 4:26 left in the game, KC on their own 29. And with 2:41 left on the clock, Cassel hits Chambers for a TD.

Week 9 against the Chiefs, they get the onside kick after the preceding TD with 2:30 on the clock at their own 32. There's still 1:10 to go when Cassel connects with Chambers for six again.

Week 10 against the Jets, with 3:05 left in the first quarter, Jets get the ball on their own 39. And with 1:14 left, Sanchez throws a TD pass to Cotchery.

By my count that's eleven TDs under two minutes against the Jaguars' defence this season, including one in that very game. Does that field goal still look riskier?"

Terrific post, no justification like past failures.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 01:20 PM
i love the comparisons to an XP. because on most extra points, teams go all out for the block, because they could win the game, right? or is this just a silly comparison based solely on the distance that has utterly no relevance to what was actually going on during the game?

The stats are the stats there. That is what coaches use. XP rarely ever get blocked because of the distance and the ability to loft the ball in the air on the kick because of not really having to drive it. The real worry there is a botched snap/hold.

By your logic you could also say a kicker is more likely to make that field goal because he is more focused on a game winning kick than being all nonchalant on an XP.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 01:34 PM
i'm sure jose cortez will be happy to learn he didn't actually miss a 10-19 yd FG in 2001, since they're equivalent.

and why would we care what coaches use? we're arguing over whether WE think it was the right call. i don't care if raheem morris or jack del rio or whichever coach you feel like channeling would've done it.

Thanks for making my point going way back to 2001. That's about how often a kick like that is missed. That and the John Carney XP 3 or 4 years ago and Romo in the playoffs. Yet how often do we see teams drive entire lengths of the field in the 2 minutes drill to win a game?

Del Rio played the percentages. Kicking that FG gave his team a better chance to win the game.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 01:43 PM
his name was the first one i looked for and then posted. but yeah, i have no doubt you spent even a third of a second looking up relevant statistical backing for your claim.

we see team's drive down the field in the final two minutes constantly, because nfl people still seem to think the prevent is a valid defensive strategy, despite the fact that everyone else on earth sees weekly proof that it's not.

*shrug* if i'm making the call, that's not a problem.



did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?

further, i disagree with the strategy. i would, at all times, attempt to avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker.

I think Del Rio did tell him to take the dive. If he didn't want him to take the dive he would tried to put it in afterwards instead of taking knees.

I just don't know why you would avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker there when they easily convert at greater percentages than defenses do.

FlyingElvis
11-16-2009, 01:45 PM
Running the clock out should only be a consideration for a team that has secured the lead. Take the TD and play defense.

gsorace
11-16-2009, 01:45 PM
did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?

Maybe not Del Rio personally but a member of coaching staff did, I think i heard it was the RB coach but I could be wrong.

no bare feet
11-16-2009, 01:49 PM
Running the clock out should only be a consideration for a team that has secured the lead. Take the TD and play defense.

What about punting with a lead and playing defense?

FlyingElvis
11-16-2009, 01:57 PM
What about punting with a lead and playing defense?

Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."

Brent
11-16-2009, 02:00 PM
Jose Cortez makes my blood boil.

I take the points every time, if I don't have the lead.

The Unseen
11-16-2009, 02:05 PM
did del rio tell MJD to take the dive?

further, i disagree with the strategy. i would, at all times, attempt to avoid putting the game on the foot of a kicker.

RB coach Kennedy Pola did, but MJD quoted him as saying "we're thinking about taking a knee." So it was probably approved by JDR, yes.

There's about a 95% chance the Jaguars would win if they did what they did on Sunday. Looking at my post on the second page, the Jaguars have allowed 11 drives this season that took up the time the Jets would have had. Knowing our ****** defense, I think it was a good move.

I think the mental disagreement comes with the realization of what would have happened had it gone wrong. We would be shocked, Jaguars fans would jump off the Modis building, etc. Why? Because we know that the goof would be so fantastically rare that the Jaguars must be cursed to have it happened to them. So the fear that doing it might make the worst happen is based off of the realization that the chances it should be made are extremely great.

yourfavestoner
11-16-2009, 02:07 PM
RB coach Kennedy Pola did, but MJD quoted him as saying "we're thinking about taking a knee." So it was probably approved by JDR, yes.

There's about a 95% chance the Jaguars would win if they did what they did on Sunday. Looking at my post on the second page, the Jaguars have allowed 11 drives this season that took up the time the Jets would have had. Knowing our ****** defense, I think it was a good move.

I think the mental disagreement comes with the realization of what would have happened had it gone wrong. We would be shocked, Jaguars fans would jump off the Modis building, etc. Why? Because we know that the goof would be so fantastically rare that the Jaguars must be cursed to have it happened to them. So the fear that doing it might make the worst happen is based off of the realization that the chances it should be made are extremely great.

Enlightened Unseen is enlightened.

Brent
11-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."
Coach Singletary, is that you?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-MbidE2sLhc/SjqR1CFThoI/AAAAAAAAAxU/3mDJdGVbXYM/s400/mike-singletary.jpg

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 02:16 PM
I wish more coaches would "step outside the box" and do stuff like this when it makes your team more likely to win but kind of goes against the way football has been played the last 50 or years.

I think I've only seen it once, but another example would be this. Down by 11 with 1:30 left and you have a 3rd and 10 at the opponents 15 with no timeouts left, kick the fg. The chances of you converting that first down are less than the chances of making the fg. Take your three points since you need them eventually anyway, and now if you get the onside kick, you hopefully won't get in a 3rd or 4th and long like that again.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 02:17 PM
Punt it, look your D in the eyes and say "Do Your Job."

Only problem with that is, you also have a coach on the other side looking into his QBs eyes and saying the same thing. If everyone "did their job", every game would finish in a tie. Some players do their jobs better than others. Such as a kicker hitting a 20 yard fg rather than a defense preventing a 2 minute drill from reaching the endzone.

Vox Populi
11-16-2009, 02:45 PM
I take the points and go for 2 every single time in that situation.

Bucs_Rule
11-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Its simple. What do you think is more likely, you fail to convert the equivalent of an extra point or the Jets score a TD in 90 seconds without a time out.

I think the Jets won't score very often but the Jags won't miss the kick even less often.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-16-2009, 03:42 PM
Njx, if this was last year's Broncos, would you have supported the knee? Or maybe the year before when we had Elam? I dunno if I would have. Although a rookie QB might have tilted it in favour of taking the points. But against any good QB I would never have trusted that Broncos D, especially since you know it was gonna be prevent the whole way down the field.

The Unseen
11-16-2009, 03:47 PM
fair enough, i was watching on red zone, so there wasn't much context beyond the plays they actually ran.



this. if my d is so bad i can't count on them when it matters; i can't ever count on them. i'd release my punter and go for it on 4th every time.

EDIT: which i just realized may be taken as a subtle dig. it's NOT meant to be.

Oh yeah, the Jaguars punter is also terrible. Podlesh has one of the worst averages in the league.

So yeah, the coaches can't count on the defense and the punter. Which is why they counted on the kicker, who in that range is more proven than our bad defense and punter.

EDIT:

the punter doesn't kick off. woops. Scobee actually has a great KO leg. haha that was stupid.

JETS5128
11-16-2009, 03:49 PM
If it makes you feel better he apologized to his fantasy owners.

**** that. I could have had a 2 game lead for 2nd place and a first round bye. Although he will probably make up for this by ripping Buffalo nine butt holes next week

CC.SD
11-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Oh yeah, the Jaguars punter is also terrible. Podlesh has one of the worst averages in the league.

So yeah, the coaches can't count on the defense and the punter. Which is why they counted on the kicker, who in that range is more proven than our bad defense and punter.

EDIT:

the punter doesn't kick off. woops. Scobee actually has a great KO leg. haha that was stupid.

What's it like to have a kicker that can get a touchback? I bet it's nice.

wordofi
11-16-2009, 07:22 PM
They were debating this on ESPN, I was curious as to which side everyone here was on. For those of you who don't know what happened:

Score is: New York - 22, Jacksonville - 21. With under two minutes to go on 2nd & 6 from the 10 yard line Maurice Jones-Drew gets the carry and races towards the endzone. It looks like he has an easy touchdown, but instead he dives down at the one yard line to keep the clock running, as the Jets had no more time outs left. After two kneel downs by David Garrard, Josh Scobee kicked a 21-yard field goal as time expired.

Ok, so here is the question. What would you have done in that situation? Do you take the guaranteed 6 points (7 with the PAT) and give the Jets about 1:30 to work with? Or do you run the clock down and possibly risk a mishandled snap, a shanked kick, or a blocked kick?

Go for the field goal. All you have to do to avoid a mishap is kick the field goal on 3rd down so that if something goes wrong, you can try again on 4th down.

gpngc
11-16-2009, 07:33 PM
This isn't like video games where you're pretty much guaranteed a good snap, and the defense not blocking it.

Yes it is.

There have been over 500 touchdowns this season and 8 missed extra points. That's a pretty solid percentage of success.

You have a lot better chance to make an extra point-like FG than stop a touchdown drive.

DeepThreat
11-16-2009, 07:38 PM
If you try to kick it, you lose possession of the ball, regardless of the down.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-16-2009, 07:45 PM
If you try to kick it, you lose possession of the ball, regardless of the down.

Only if you kick it though. If it's a bad snap, you're free to throw the ball away/look to score or whatever and try again on 4th.

bored of education
11-16-2009, 08:17 PM
Pineapples and Asparagi are better comparisons.

Unbiased
11-16-2009, 08:29 PM
For me, what it comes down to as the coach is which you have more confidence in...

1. Your defense keeping the Jets from going the length of the field with 2 minutes to score a TD

or

2. Josh Scobee making an 21 yard field goal right in the middle of the field.

I'd take the FG every time.

Put the game in your hands. Not the other team's.

Wally03
11-16-2009, 08:39 PM
in case you missed it, it wasn't an extra point. i'm sure we'll quit comparing apples to oranges shortly.

To be fair it was a 21 yd. field goal being compared to an extra point, which is in essence a 19 yd. field goal. So to claim the comparison is comparing apples to oranges strikes me as a touch drastic. It is more along the lines of comparing lemons and limes, a case in which there are certain differences but overall you're looking at two strikingly similar things.

Wally03
11-16-2009, 08:49 PM
*shrug*

i maintain that there's a vastly different defensive approach to a mid-game extra point, than to a game winning field goal, no matter where that field goal happens to occur.

i have no interest in discussing intangible crap like psyche, but i'm sure someone who does could add that to the differences pile.

Fair point, hadn't really considered your statement from that point of view.

gpngc
11-16-2009, 09:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that game-winning field goals within 25 yards have a similar percentage of success as extra points.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
11-16-2009, 10:27 PM
The mindset for an extra point is that it's automatic, the mindset for a field goal is that it's makeable. Two different mindsets, thus two very different situations.

Raiderz4Life
11-16-2009, 11:05 PM
I would've scored...I know MJD only did what he was told but I would take any risk out of scoring with a FG by just having the TD

FlyingElvis
11-16-2009, 11:46 PM
I'm pretty sure that game-winning field goals within 25 yards have a similar percentage of success as extra points.

[ citation needed ]

It's so irrelevant and I'm shocked it's even being defended.

In its simplest form, here's the numerical breakdown:

MJD doesn't take a knee and continues his unabated course into the endzone = 100% chance of taking the lead in the game.

MJD takes a knee = NOT 100% chance of taking the lead in the game.


Score the ******* TD.

Jughead10
11-16-2009, 11:55 PM
It's so irrelevant and I'm shocked it's even being defended.

In its simplest form, here's the numerical breakdown:

MJD doesn't take a knee and continues his unabated course into the endzone = 100% chance of taking the lead in the game.

MJD takes a knee = NOT 100% chance of taking the lead in the game.


Score the ******* TD.

You are so wrong on this. This situation really is a no brainer. 100% of taking the lead in the game, does not mean winning the game. 98% of winning the game is 98% of winning the game. A FG of that distance is the easiest play in all of sports.

Do you think the Jets had greater than or less than a 2% chance of running a successful 2 minutes drill and scoring a TD?

Bengalsrocket
11-17-2009, 12:21 AM
Yes it is.

There have been over 500 touchdowns this season and 8 missed extra points. That's a pretty solid percentage of success.

You have a lot better chance to make an extra point-like FG than stop a touchdown drive.

I don't know where you got your stats from, so maybe you already took this into account, but if the ball is not actually kicked, then failed PAT are counted as failed 2 point conversions. We had that situation this weekend against Pittsburgh.

Our place holder (Kevin Huber) took the snap, and the ball slipped as he went to place it for Graham. Graham hesitated so Huber picked the ball up. The official call on that is "failed 2 point conversation" not "failed PAT".

vikes_28
11-17-2009, 12:36 AM
I don't see why its such a big deal, really. He took a knee, so what? Isn't that what the coach told him to do? Sure, I lost my fantasy game because of him, but does that really outweigh why he should have just gone into the endzone? Anything can happen in a 1:30. See: Denver vs. Bengals week 1.