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DeathbyStat
11-17-2009, 04:29 PM
If the Brown take a QB in the first round, do you feel that they will go with locker or clausen, or perhaps someone else

CLong4Heisman
11-17-2009, 04:31 PM
I feel that they should take Locker because as good as he is, he needs one year to learn the system so he isnt forced into an awful situation. Clausen, imo, is the most nfl ready QB and would start right away but he would have 0 targets to throw to.

BufFan71
11-17-2009, 04:32 PM
quinn has started... what, 6 games in his career, and u already want to end his stay in cleveland?


i understand hes sucked... but hes got no running game. and his best WR is Massoquio (SP?)

soybean
11-17-2009, 04:36 PM
First order of business should find a good replacement for mangina.

I'd probably go with clausen because the browns don't have the luxury of being able to have an experiment or project on their hands.

BamaFalcon59
11-17-2009, 04:38 PM
No QB.

Give Quinn one year while boosting the offensive supporting cast in this year's draft.

DeepThreat
11-17-2009, 05:00 PM
The Browns definitely need a QB. It is blatantly obvious that Quinn doesn't have it. He isn't even accurate.

However, I don't like either of the QB's. Bad situation.

Cicero
11-17-2009, 05:01 PM
I think it really depends on who's the head coach.

foozball
11-17-2009, 05:03 PM
They should focus on fixing the rest of the team before taking a QB. This class is somewhat weak and the 2011 crop should be better.

JFLO
11-17-2009, 05:05 PM
I think it really depends on who's the head coach.

This.

If it is still Mangina, then I think the team has to go with quarterback, my guess would be Clausen.

He's the closest thing to a franchise quarterback in this class while Locker will need more time to develop mentally for the next level.

Scott Wright
11-17-2009, 05:12 PM
The argument comes down to this:

Raw with More Upside = Locker

Polished with Less Upside = Clausen

DeepThreat
11-17-2009, 05:14 PM
Do you agree that Quinn is a bust?

CLong4Heisman
11-17-2009, 05:24 PM
I think after 3 full seasons you can clarify someone as a bust. He has only like 8 starts under his belt and I don't blame for being nervous while playing because at anytime, magini could have yanked him and once again destroyed his confidence.

BamaFalcon59
11-17-2009, 05:26 PM
The Browns definitely need a QB. It is blatantly obvious that Quinn doesn't have it. He isn't even accurate.

However, I don't like either of the QB's. Bad situation.

Exactly.

I don't think you can count on any young QB coming in and having success in an environment without much support and in a losing atmosphere.

You bring in winners and offensive support, maybe some pass rushers on defense, and then bring in the top guy in 2011.

Babylon
11-17-2009, 05:30 PM
Wouldnt wish my worst enemy on the Browns nevermind Clausen or Locker.

Scott Wright
11-17-2009, 05:31 PM
Do you agree that Quinn is a bust?

Nope, I still think he will thrive when he's out of that mess in Cleveland.

Quinn has been in the league for three years but he has a grand total of nine starts for a horrible team. That's not even half of a season. All young quarterbacks go through growing pains and Quinn hasn't been given an opportunity to play through them.

Don't get me wrong, Quinn did not have a great game against Baltimore last night. However, the terrible playcalling and lack of playmakers for the Browns was never more evident.

Quinn may be a bust and he may not be but he hasn't been given a fair opportunity and it's too early to judge him one way or another.

CC.SD
11-17-2009, 05:54 PM
Nope, I still think he will thrive when he's out of that mess in Cleveland.

Quinn has been in the league for three years but he has a grand total of nine starts for a horrible team. That's not even half of a season. All young quarterbacks go through growing pains and Quinn hasn't been given an opportunity to play through them.

Don't get me wrong, Quinn did not have a great game against Baltimore last night. However, the terrible playcalling and lack of playmakers for the Browns was never more evident.

Quinn may be a bust and he may not be but he hasn't been given a fair opportunity and it's too early to judge him one way or another.

Thank you, I feel like I have been taking crazy pills. Quinn has only played in a handful of games.

Mr.Regular
11-17-2009, 06:17 PM
But if the Browns are picking at the top of the draft (which we know they will be) then who else will they take?
Looking at it this way, these players fill needs and value IMO: Eric Berry, Suh/McCoy, and Locker/Clausen.
Now consider that it will probably be a new GM and new coach in Cleveland... my money is on them taking a QB to groom themselves. New coaching regimes like to have their own QB... and considering that the Browns offense is historically awful, the new regime will likely want to start rebuilding that offense through the most important position on the field.

DeepThreat
11-17-2009, 06:20 PM
Browns' D-Line is actually very solid. I still wouldn't mind taking Suh, but it really isn't a need.

CC.SD
11-17-2009, 06:30 PM
Browns' D-Line is actually very solid. I still wouldn't mind taking Suh, but it really isn't a need.

I think the general thought is that Shaun Rogers won't be around much longer, he tried pretty hard to get out this last season and is over 30, neh?

RaiderNation
11-17-2009, 06:33 PM
I think its Locker. Having Clausen and Quinn on the same team would be too much Notre Dame

DeepThreat
11-17-2009, 06:35 PM
I think the general thought is that Shaun Rogers won't be around much longer, he tried pretty hard to get out this last season and is over 30, neh?

Him and Mangini made up, and Mangini's gone regardless. Rogers has played hard all season.

Job
11-17-2009, 06:53 PM
Clausen is the second coming.

FUNBUNCHER
11-17-2009, 07:09 PM
Browns could win games with their D if they had Suh in their front rotation.

RaiderNation
11-17-2009, 07:25 PM
Browns could win games with their D if they had Suh in their front rotation.

With that offence, Id disagree. They need to restart on O, they got a LT so its time to get a franchise QB to build around. Get draft picks for Quinn and/or Anderson

d34ng3l021
11-17-2009, 07:52 PM
I really don't think they should be taking a QB. Quinn should be given more time to prove himself, if not for the whole 'give him time to adjust' argument, at least for moneys sake (what is the situation with that? I am sure he didn't get too much $ by being picked late in the first). Not only that, but they could really use talent at other positions to set up Quinn or the future franchise QB.

RedVision
11-17-2009, 07:55 PM
They need some playmakers on offense, and a housecleaning upstairs (mangini included of course)

vidae
11-17-2009, 08:16 PM
Give Quinn a shot. Try to get him a weapon, maybe a run game, and fix that defensive line.

The kid has all the tools in the world, he just has no team.

BigBanger
11-17-2009, 08:20 PM
Quinn is a bust. A guy with that kind of ball placement and accuracy problems? Yeah, he's hardly a second string QB. Forget the fact that he doesn't have the arm to throw the ball more than 15 yards down field, which ya kinda have to be able to do. Bring the safeties up and blitz him... he'll throw with terrible mechanics or he'll run out of the pocket and throw the ball into the dirt. Watch out for this guy.

Could he do better somewhere else? Yeah, sure. A place that has a #1 QB and said QB doesn't get injured. That will be a career improvement for this POS.

Mr.Regular
11-17-2009, 08:38 PM
Quinn is a bust. A guy with that kind of ball placement and accuracy problems? Yeah, he's hardly a second string QB. Forget the fact that he doesn't have the arm to throw the ball more than 15 yards down field, which ya kinda have to be able to do. Bring the safeties up and blitz him... he'll throw with terrible mechanics or he'll run out of the pocket and throw the ball into the dirt. Watch out for this guy.

Could he do better somewhere else? Yeah, sure. A place that has a #1 QB and said QB doesn't get injured. That will be a career improvement for this POS.
I hate to write off the guy so early, but Id have to agree with you. He sucks. Hes always had accuracy problems. He doesnt have a huge arm. He looks nervous, makes dumb mistakes like staring down targets, and on and on. But it is hard to succeed with Eric Mangini as your coach and no legitimate targets or running game. Only the best of the best would succeed with what Quinn has around him...Thats why its tough to write him off. Unfortunately Quinn has shown absolutely nothing to prove that he deserves more chances...maybe if he flashed some potential, but the guy has just been beyond awful so far.

Nalej
11-17-2009, 08:51 PM
I say draft some weapons first before replacing the QB.
No QB can succeed with that team. Get a RB, a WR and some help on the right side of the OL.

bored of education
11-17-2009, 09:09 PM
id wait two years for Malletzzz

Brent
11-17-2009, 11:08 PM
id wait two years for Malletzzz
you mean UNLEASH THE DRAGON 2.0?

foozball
11-17-2009, 11:24 PM
I really don't see how bringing in another QB into Quinn's situation will really help. It'll just destroy another talented QB's confidence all over again. Get a RB, 2 WRs, a RT, and some guys on defense first

LonghornsLegend
11-17-2009, 11:42 PM
Last thing they need is a QB right now, I know it works sometimes but taking a QB would be asking for him to fail. This situation is even worse then Detroit coming off an 0-16 season because they still had Calvin Johnson for a QB to rely on, and two 1st rounders so the extra 1st could bring in more help.


I think you definately have to give Quinn a shot with some upgrades, but you almost have to bring in a guy like Pennington to be a bus driver and have a chance to start. If Cleveland did like Locker or Clausen so much that they felt they had to take them, they would need to sit them for a year at minimum, and I doubt that happens.

goodlookin
11-18-2009, 12:07 AM
This is a pretty simple solution...surround quinn with some talent while it develops. Get a BPA with their top pick...either DL or a pass rusher. Take a RB in 2nd that can pound the rock (necessary in their division) and get a WO who can stretch the field keeping the safeties off for better poundage of the rock. ( I know its not this simple but for arguements sake lets not bicker). Continue growing the complimentary parts of the team and assessing Quinn's ability to perform on a competitive team before investing 70 mill in an unproven QB. If quinn proves to be not fit for the job then start looking for a QB. This is a much better strategy as it allows for flexibility in free agency (less money dumped into the draft) which will allow for a better chance of getting the right parts in place. This team is atleast 2-4 years away from being competitive.

Flyboy
11-18-2009, 01:23 AM
you mean UNLEASH THE DRAGON 2.0?

Okay, this made me chuckle.

irishbucsfan
11-18-2009, 03:49 AM
I haven't watched much of him this year, but from what I saw in the monday night game, his teammates have really been making him look so much worse than he is. BOTH interceptions came from the ball bouncing off both the receiver's hands - it's not like they barely touched the ball, he hit them squarely and they just said 'no Brady, I think I'm going to give this pass to the other team'.

DeathbyStat
11-18-2009, 08:19 AM
No QB.

Give Quinn one year while boosting the offensive supporting cast in this year's draft.

The isn't if they need a QB or not, its if they went QB who would they lean toward

DeathbyStat
11-18-2009, 08:21 AM
Do you agree that Quinn is a bust?

Not a complete bust...but he needs out of cleveland if he fails somewhere else then he is the complete bust i always thought he could be.

drowe
11-18-2009, 09:47 AM
Locker.

The Browns offense is completely inept and needs more than a new QB to turn it around. And, that's what Locker is. More than a QB. His "duel threat" status is just enough to put him over the top. He'd be able to at least bring a new dimension to the offense by being able to make plays himself.

TT Gator
11-21-2009, 12:03 AM
Who's the better QB? Clausen. If the Browns take one who should they take? Locker cuz their problems go far deeper than QB and it'd be a waste of Clausen's great talent to stick him in a hopeless situation with a even more hopeless coach. I laugh when I hear that the Browns have no faith in Brady Quinn. Really? I mean what did they expect...a Pro Bowl year? You don't give him a real shot for 2 years, you trade away his only 2 real receiving threats, you call WR screens on 90% of your passing plays, and then you blame him when your crappy team loses. No wonder he's not playing up to par. He's on a horrible offence and his coaches have no confidence in him. Brady and Manning couldn't win with that team. They have no running game, a horrible O-Line, all their receivers are either over the hill nobodies or rookies, and they have a QB who's practically a rookie....and that's just the offence! This isen't a team that will turn it around in a year or two. This is a long-term project of more than 5 years. They need to get the best athlete in the Draft no matter the position. I'd say Eric Berry or Ndakung Suh myself. Get a big playmaker on defence then for the love of all that's holy draft a RB in the 2nd round. Give Quinn some help before you give up on him. The owner of this team is an idiot. Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan, and Cowher are all sitting without a job and you sign Mangini as your head coach? You true Browns fans need to petition cuz your never gonna win wit that guy as dictator. Of coarse this will all probably bemoot cuz Mangini will trade away the #1 overall pick for a 7th round pick, a 3rd string QB, a back-up waterboy, and Jared Allen's mullet.

RaiderNation
11-21-2009, 12:16 AM
If I were the Browns Id trade Quinn to a team like St Louis or Carolina for a 2nd or 3rd with a player. Draft Clausen in the 1st, go RB or WR with the next 2 picks, and try to sign some vets.

ThePudge
11-21-2009, 12:24 AM
If I were the Browns Id trade Quinn to a team like St Louis or Carolina for a 2nd or 3rd with a player. Draft Clausen in the 1st, go RB or WR with the next 2 picks, and try to sign some vets.

I don't think the Browns could get any more than a 5th for Brady Quinn, maybe a 4th if a team were desperate. The guy's been bad...

Iamcanadian
11-21-2009, 02:08 AM
quinn has started... what, 6 games in his career, and u already want to end his stay in cleveland?


i understand hes sucked... but hes got no running game. and his best WR is Massoquio (SP?)

You forgot to mention that neither of his HC's or OC's thought much of his talent. Rookie QB's usually get to start by game 8 of their rookie year or sit a year and start as the full time starter in their second season. He has started only 6 games because he has stunk in all of them. He has an all pro LT a solid LG and a 1st round OC protecting him and he had Edwards and Winslow to throw to last year. Nothing has helped this guy perform. It is pretty obvious that Cleveland has no intention of retaining Quinn and he will be a FA maybe as soon as next season, so I think they will be seeking a new QB in the draft.

FUNBUNCHER
11-21-2009, 02:32 AM
You forgot to mention that neither of his HC's or OC's thought much of his talent. Rookie QB's usually get to start by game 8 of their rookie year or sit a year and start as the full time starter in their second season. He has started only 6 games because he has stunk in all of them. He has an all pro LT a solid LG and a 1st round OC protecting him and he had Edwards and Winslow to throw to last year. Nothing has helped this guy perform. It is pretty obvious that Cleveland has no intention of retaining Quinn and he will be a FA maybe as soon as next season, so I think they will be seeking a new QB in the draft.

Having an inconsistent, yet talented, Derek Anderson on the roster was the reason Quinn didn't start earlier in his career.

Romeo Crennel wasn't going to start Quinn over Anderson in that situation, and he shouldn't have. But right now I need to see Quinn play at least 10 to 25 games in a row before I write him off.

BTW, since there are no true franchise type QBs in this draft, since the odds are high that Cleveland will be selecting in the top 10 over the next two drafts, considering the talent coming out in the next few years, IMO the Browns FO should go BPA and pass on a QB in the 2010 draft.

wicket
11-21-2009, 06:37 AM
locker is a better fit, the receivers arent going to get open either way so you better have a qb that can run for his life. Besides that, Jimmy has a bit of Kurt Warner in him in that he can look great with good receivers and make the receivers look great but he isnt as good with bad receivers(I think, imo Jimmy's jump in playing is a bit overrated due to the developement of the supporting cast) whilst locker is more used to playing with complete scrubs

Job
11-21-2009, 08:45 AM
locker is a better fit, the receivers arent going to get open either way so you better have a qb that can run for his life. Besides that, Jimmy has a bit of Kurt Warner in him in that he can look great with good receivers and make the receivers look great but he isnt as good with bad receivers(I think, imo Jimmy's jump in playing is a bit overrated due to the developement of the supporting cast) whilst locker is more used to playing with complete scrubs

Or you could go the other way around saying the development of the WRs is all due to Clausen's play.

wicket
11-21-2009, 08:58 AM
Or you could go the other way around saying the development of the WRs is all due to Clausen's play.

yeah but the reason why I think its the other way around (partially) is becuz outside of golden & michael noone has really looked that good @wideout

Babylon
11-21-2009, 10:37 AM
Who's the better QB? Clausen. If the Browns take one who should they take? Locker cuz their problems go far deeper than QB and it'd be a waste of Clausen's great talent to stick him in a hopeless situation with a even more hopeless coach. I laugh when I hear that the Browns have no faith in Brady Quinn. Really? I mean what did they expect...a Pro Bowl year? You don't give him a real shot for 2 years, you trade away his only 2 real receiving threats, you call WR screens on 90% of your passing plays, and then you blame him when your crappy team loses. No wonder he's not playing up to par. He's on a horrible offence and his coaches have no confidence in him. Brady and Manning couldn't win with that team. They have no running game, a horrible O-Line, all their receivers are either over the hill nobodies or rookies, and they have a QB who's practically a rookie....and that's just the offence! This isen't a team that will turn it around in a year or two. This is a long-term project of more than 5 years. They need to get the best athlete in the Draft no matter the position. I'd say Eric Berry or Ndakung Suh myself. Get a big playmaker on defence then for the love of all that's holy draft a RB in the 2nd round. Give Quinn some help before you give up on him. The owner of this team is an idiot. Gruden, Holmgren, Shanahan, and Cowher are all sitting without a job and you sign Mangini as your head coach? You true Browns fans need to petition cuz your never gonna win wit that guy as dictator. Of coarse this will all probably bemoot cuz Mangini will trade away the #1 overall pick for a 7th round pick, a 3rd string QB, a back-up waterboy, and Jared Allen's mullet.

Wouldnt want to waste Clausen's talent but wasting Locker's is ok?

CC.SD
11-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Wouldnt want to waste Clausen's talent but wasting Locker's is ok?

At least Locker could use some development time. But with Quinn having sat for a while that's tough to ask of a fan base. They'll be happier with Berry or Suh.

Raider_fan_Canada
11-21-2009, 01:20 PM
Poor Brady Quinn, Im sure he was excited to play with playmakers like Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards. Comes the time for him to start and the Browns got rid of both of them. So thats the way to do business in the NFL? When your best players want new contracts you get rid of them??

On top of that his offensive line is completely out of sinc, specialy on pass protection assignements.

descendency
11-21-2009, 02:49 PM
I know it's been said already but most people are missing the most crucial point of this debate...

New Regime (GM and Coach) = New QB. There are zero exceptions to this rule. All of the current teams in the NFL once they've changed both have also changed QBs.

Clausen is the best QB right now, so I think you take him. I don't think you can afford to draft for upside that might never come when you are in the garbage dump Cleveland is.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 03:21 PM
I know it's been said already but most people are missing the most crucial point of this debate...

New Regime (GM and Coach) = New QB. There are zero exceptions to this rule. All of the current teams in the NFL once they've changed both have also changed QBs.

Clausen is the best QB right now, so I think you take him. I don't think you can afford to draft for upside that might never come when you are in the garbage dump Cleveland is.

New regime meaning Holmgren and whoever he picks as his head coach?

If it ends up being Holmgren he's stated as recently as this week on Seattle radio that he isnt big on picking underclassmen at the QB position.

descendency
11-21-2009, 03:35 PM
New regime meaning Holmgren and whoever he picks as his head coach?

If it ends up being Holmgren he's stated as recently as this week on Seattle radio that he isnt big on picking underclassmen at the QB position.

I am not limiting that to draft picks. Quite a few people bring in FA QBs. Tony Romo or even Jake Delhomme (who was picked up the following year, so it isn't 1-1, but no regime has ever been removed without trying 'their guy' at QB.) for example.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 03:41 PM
I am not limiting that to draft picks. Quite a few people bring in FA QBs. Tony Romo or even Jake Delhomme (who was picked up the following year, so it isn't 1-1, but no regime has ever been removed without trying 'their guy' at QB.) for example.

I'm not sure what Holmgren thought of Quinn out of college so if he couldnt find a veteran Hassselbeck type he might be force to taking a QB. In that regard we agree.

As for drafting the highest rated player i think a D-lineman is the better value there. On sidenote i've gone out on a limb and said that Paul Allen (Seattle) will have his front office do whatever it takes to get Jake Locker.

descendency
11-21-2009, 03:43 PM
I was just about to edit that to say I don't know who he would draft if he doesn't take a JR QB... The rise of the JR QB is coming. I know only 21 have come out in the first round since the inception of the idea, but there seem to have been more recently.

I don't think he'll have an option if he wants to draft a franchise QB unless he gets lucky with a Tom Brady esque pick.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 03:51 PM
I was just about to edit that to say I don't know who he would draft if he doesn't take a JR QB... The rise of the JR QB is coming. I know only 21 have come out in the first round since the inception of the idea, but there seem to have been more recently.

I don't think he'll have an option if he wants to draft a franchise QB unless he gets lucky with a Tom Brady esque pick.

Yeah they had luck with those Ron Wolf type pickups there in Green Bay, the Brunells and the Hasselbecks. Not sure if they're out there but they dont usually get the notice till they are selected. A couple of guys that could drop and be available:Joe Pike, Jevan Snead, Colt McCoy, Dan Lefevour.

SenorGato
11-21-2009, 09:47 PM
I think the Browns take the BPA. If they can get Dez Bryant, I think they go that way.

Jimmy Clausen would be my pick for them if I were to be making that pick and chose to g QB. I still think they should go with Suh or Bryant before they go QB.

The offseason might change that. Hopefully does change that somehow.

TonyGfortheTD
11-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Regardless if Mangini stays or go, Brady Quinn won't be in the long term plans for Cleveland Browns. Mangini has been bipolar when it has came to starting Quinn. Unless the coach doesn't have full confidence in his QB, things normally will not end well. If a new regime comes in, they will want their own guy.

The only question is where the next QB for the Browns will come from.

San Diego Chicken
11-22-2009, 12:48 AM
I would bring in a vet to compete with Quinn. Give Quinn one more offseason to see if he can fix his issues, which to me seem related to mechanics and pocket awareness. If he could just learn to stay balanced on his throws and step up through the traffic inside the pocket, I think he could salvage his career.

That said, if forced to make a choice I'd go with Locker for Cleveland. He is used to playing with an undermanned squad against tough teams. Plus, I don't think it would go over well in Cleveland if they drafted another Notre Dame/Weis product in the first round. Maybe that's not fair, but in all honesty they both have the same issues with pressure in the pocket.

Scott Wright
11-22-2009, 09:43 AM
Just "Tweeted" a little update on Clausen.

Got it from a source who saw him after his game yesterday.

wicket
11-22-2009, 09:55 AM
Just "Tweeted" a little update on Clausen.

Got it from a source who saw him after his game yesterday.

yeah I agree, you can also add GT to that list, might become a baseball pro though

Babylon
11-22-2009, 11:43 AM
Just "Tweeted" a little update on Clausen.

Got it from a source who saw him after his game yesterday.

If anyone saw good body language from anyone on the Irish sideline i'd want to have that player checked for drugs. I'm in total agreement that he's gone. Short of having the odds on favorite to win it all next year he'd be nuts to come back.

As for where he would end up i doubt it would be Cleveland, Holmgren if he takes over doesnt like underclassmen QBs so somewhere like St Louis to run their WCO there would make sense.

TheGM
11-22-2009, 06:29 PM
Unless Quinn lights it up over the next 6 games I can't see him staying in Cleveland. The team sat him just long enough to ensure that they would not have to pay him a bonus for taking 70% of the teams snaps and they have gotten rid of every other offensive player with any kind of trade value. The Brown's are turning over that roster. With that in mind Locker is a better fit for that division/team. He is a good enough athlete to extend plays for a lackluster receiving core and he has the arm to throw down field. Every team in that division wants to play great defense, establish the power run game, and throw over the top. IMO Quinn and Clausen are better suited for teams that use 3 wide sets as there base offense.

Dowdy
11-27-2009, 06:23 PM
It's really hard to make a call on Quinn.

Certainly there is no talent around him. He doesn't have a consistent running game and his receivers are real spotty.

On the other hand, in all of his games I don't know if Quinn has ever made a throw that made me say "Wow, that was a nice throw." He is a game manager, not really a gamechanger. Without talent around him Quinn is pretty worthless. I can't recall any stand out plays from the guy so far...

Right now, I think the Browns need to at least give Quinn some real weapons before they cast him off. Then again, from what I have seen so far, it might already be too late to save him.

SenorGato
11-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Take Dez Bryant or Eric Berry and run. They have their choice of the two best players on either side of the ball in all likelihood...they're at least getting to look at 1.

And oh man do people hate Mangini.

lordquas
11-28-2009, 11:05 PM
browns future QB.....
Zac RobinSON