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View Full Version : Another Tebow thread...but with a twist.


Abaddon
11-21-2009, 12:17 PM
It's basically a given that Tebow will fail miserably as an NFL QB if he goes to a team with a traditional NFL offense...which, as of now, is pretty much 31 of 32 teams. Miami being the lone gimmick team, and they're not in the QB market.

Seems like some owner/GM will buy into the Wildcat hype, as well as the Tebow hype and attempt to marry the faux QB with the only NFL coach to successfully install the type of offense that Tebow could excel in: Miami offensive coordinator Dan Henning. Of all the coaches attempting to use this package, only Henning has been able to pull it off...and he is expanding on it weekly.

The drawback here is that he'll be 68 when the season starts. But, I don't think it's completely out of the question that he could bring over another Dolphins' assistant like Karl Dorrell (WRs), James Saxon (RBs), or Dave DeGuglielmo (O-line) to take on the assistant-HC/HC-in-waiting role. Saxon's unit has been especially good, though he did have a lot to work with.

The point being that, again, Tebow isn't going to be an NFL QB. He doesn't throw the ball well. He's not a guy who can drop back and dissect a secondary. The only hope he has for success is if some team tries to emulate Miami.

I figure there's one team with a more optimistic view of his abilities, but who will also see the value of putting him in a situation where he can flourish. As such, I look for him to be joined at the hip with at least one Dolphins' assistant in an attempt to recreate the Miami wildcat.

I'm probably wrong, but it makes more sense than asking him to be a real QB.

SuperKevin
11-21-2009, 12:19 PM
Where's the twist M. Night Shamalyan?

CC.SD
11-21-2009, 12:28 PM
BRUCE WILLIS IS DEAAAAD

http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/filmi_sangeet/media/1960_twist.jpg

Staubach12
11-21-2009, 12:58 PM
Edward Norton and Brad Pitt are the same person.

Oh, and Tebow may play QB in the NFL, but he won't be a first round pick.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 01:17 PM
I think he's closer to an NFL QB than most people give him credit for. Keep in mind there are a fair amount of QBs that dont have a strong arm and they're doing pretty well. I personally wouldnt take him but i doubt he'll get by 32 GMs looking for something to jumpstart a sagging franchise. Not sure the twist here, this stuff has been beaten to death many times over.

kennyb
11-21-2009, 01:18 PM
I think his best bet is MLB. Yes, I know, I'm crazy.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-21-2009, 02:18 PM
Whether he likes it or not, Tebow is going to have to figure out to how to be a more conventional quarterback in the NFL if he's going to have any hope whatsoever. The NFL rarely takes schematic advice from the college ranks and I'm really not sure I see any team adopting a Wildcat like offense fully enough for it to warrant having a full-time quarterback to run it. If Tebow can develop enough to become a worthwhile passer, then I can see a team run a unconventional plays with him, but that's about it.

Ultimately, Tebow's best shot is going to a team that has a coaching staff that figures to still be there in 3 years and has the luxury of sitting him for basically that entire span of time. I want to like Tebow, but I agree that he is far from where he needs to be for him to likely even be serviceable if you put him under center early in his career.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 02:22 PM
Whether he likes it or not, Tebow is going to have to figure out to how to be a more conventional quarterback in the NFL if he's going to have any hope whatsoever. The NFL rarely takes schematic advice from the college ranks and I'm really not sure I see any team adopting a Wildcat like offense fully enough for it to warrant having a full-time quarterback to run it. If Tebow can develop enough to become a worthwhile passer, then I can see a team run a unconventional plays with him, but that's about it.

Ultimately, Tebow's best shot is going to a team that has a coaching staff that figures to still be there in 3 years and has the luxury of sitting him for basically that entire span of time. I want to like Tebow, but I agree that he is far from where he needs to be for him to likely even be serviceable if you put him under center early in his career.

I think first thing he needs to do is get his throwing motion corrected which right now starts around his waste. What happened to Urban putting more of a pro style offense in to help Tebow get ready for the NFL? That didnt last long.

descendency
11-21-2009, 02:32 PM
QB? He isn't a QB just because he receives the ball first. UF runs a direct snap offense. He's an FB/H-Back/TE. He throws to WRs. They have no true TEs or FBs or RBs. The guys on that team are WRs and track athletes who can catch the ball. The reason why Tebow is breaking running back records is that's because it's what he is.

FUNBUNCHER
11-21-2009, 03:43 PM
Once again, Tebow will succeed or fail in the NFL as a QB. There is no middle ground at another position because I think Tebow's world view is bigger than the NFL. If he makes it, he makes it. If not, oh well.

Tebow is a player whose overall talent I believe we will find out later exceeds the limitations of the scheme he played in during college. Just because he played in a one read system doesn't mean he can't go through his progressions and find open receivers.
He's mobile, got a strong arm and has an excellent work ethic. If Tebow proves to be a gamer in the NFL, that is, can handle making mistakes and still come back to make plays, he's going to be a starter someday soon in the NFL.

Give a guy a chance to compete before writing him off as a pro QB.

descendency
11-21-2009, 03:46 PM
Once again, Tebow will succeed or fail in the NFL as a QB. There is no middle ground at another position because I think Tebow's world view is bigger than the NFL. If he makes it, he makes it. If not, oh well.

If this is true, I know NFL GMs/Coaches who will not touch him. If you think I'm bluffing, one is Bill Belichick who demands a 100% dedication (outside of family).

edit: The point is that his stock will fall like a rock.

Philliez01
11-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Once again, Tebow will succeed or fail in the NFL as a QB.

Well, isn't that the same for anyone?

To be honest, I can't really add anything other than what's been added to the thread since everyone kinda knows what's with Tebow.

What We Know
-He's a "winner" and NFL teams do like that.
-Great character, probably the ideal character of any prospects. What Peyton Manning is to intelligence at the position, Tebow is to character.
-Not ridiculously athletic like a Pryor or VY but an athlete similar to a Roethlisberger and can move around.
-Great size, tough to bring down and is prototype height.
-Velocity is good and he has shown some "touch" passes though not a lot.
-Seems like a pretty smart, high IQ football player.
-Tough.
-Intangibles.

Negatives We Know:
-Mechanics, while improved, is still pretty awful.
-No snaps taken under center.
-Had great athletes around him (not really a negative though).
-Even though it wasn't serious, a concussion is a concussion.
-Footwork=shoddy.
-Most aspects of being a true, pure QB are under question with Tebow but from the intangible standpoint he's a winner.

Im_a_Romosexual
11-21-2009, 04:42 PM
I thought David Lee, the QB coach was the wildcat genius.

Shane P. Hallam
11-21-2009, 04:56 PM
If this is true, I know NFL GMs/Coaches who will not touch him. If you think I'm bluffing, one is Bill Belichick who demands a 100% dedication (outside of family).

edit: The point is that his stock will fall like a rock.

It only takes one team. There has been some information being passed around about teams viewing him as a Top 20 pick. NFL teams always think they can change players.

Rosebud
11-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Tebow to New England in round two. He can sit behind Brady for a long time and if injuries derail Brady's career they have a replacement, if not they have a backup who can run some gimmick plays until they trade him a la Cassel. Obligatory reference to the Belicheck/Meyer connection and that Tebow is a patriots type of guy.

Babylon
11-21-2009, 07:59 PM
Tebow to New England in round two. He can sit behind Brady for a long time and if injuries derail Brady's career they have a replacement, if not they have a backup who can run some gimmick plays until they trade him a la Cassel. Obligatory reference to the Belicheck/Meyer connection and that Tebow is a patriots type of guy.

You may not be totally wrong about that.

descendency
11-21-2009, 08:34 PM
Tebow to New England in round two. He can sit behind Brady for a long time and if injuries derail Brady's career they have a replacement, if not they have a backup who can run some gimmick plays until they trade him a la Cassel. Obligatory reference to the Belicheck/Meyer connection and that Tebow is a patriots type of guy.

Um. No he isn't. There is nothing about Tebow that fits the Patriots offense. The Patriots run a pro-style spread offense, which requires a player to make NFL reads, NFL throws, and have NFL level pocket presence. Tebow has shown none of that.

Tebow has an elite work ethic but simply has not developed as a passer at all since 2007. Tim Tebow will not be drafted as a QB by NE. If he is drafted, it will be as an H-Back.

edit: I am a huge Patriots fan. I have watched every game under Brady and quite a few under Bledsoe. I wasn't a football fan before that.

FUNBUNCHER
11-21-2009, 10:01 PM
If this is true, I know NFL GMs/Coaches who will not touch him. If you think I'm bluffing, one is Bill Belichick who demands a 100% dedication (outside of family).

edit: The point is that his stock will fall like a rock.

You're missing the point. People are talking about Tebow potentially converting to fullback, H-back, or TE in the NFL. IMO that's not going to happen. No way Tebow sticks around on some NFL roster to play special teams.
Either he makes it as a QB or he doesn't.

NIN1984
11-21-2009, 10:21 PM
I thought David Lee, the QB coach was the wildcat genius.

yeah, from what I understand Lee is the main reason the Dolphins even use the wildcat. Lee is from Arkansas where he coached Darren McFadden.

descendency
11-21-2009, 10:32 PM
You're missing the point. People are talking about Tebow potentially converting to fullback, H-back, or TE in the NFL. IMO that's not going to happen. No way Tebow sticks around on some NFL roster to play special teams.
Either he makes it as a QB or he doesn't.

No, I understand your point completely. You're missing how the NFL works. Either you do what the coach tells you to or you don't make it. It's not determination that gets you to the NFL, it's skill. The Patriots are about nothing anyone can associate with Tim Tebow (aside from hard work, which every team is about). They prefer versatility over rigidness, they prefer team over self. They prefer under-rated talent over over-rated talent. Every coach in the NFL has a system and expects you to take a role in it; Belichick is no different and doesn't presume he can make you a better player (take a look at Kevin O'Connell who he thought he could make a better QB... was a much different QB than Tebow). Brian Hoyer is a better QB at this point and time. Hoyer is in the system, learning, and preparing if Brady were to go down. I admit that NE needs to get a 3rd QB on the team, but Tebow isn't it.

Either Tebow wants to succeed as a football player or he doesn't. If he doesn't want to be a football player, he won't be drafted by the Patriots.

Basically, you are saying he has questionable dedication to the game. I'm saying as long as Bill Belichick is making the personnel decisions in NE, no one with questionable dedication to football will be drafted, regardless of talent. He won't even be on the big board.

His skillset doesn't fit the Patriots offense. They don't need gimmicks to score. There is too much talent on offense. Unless Tebow demonstrates (through interviews) a willingness to devote himself to the team, he won't be drafted by the Patriots.

MiWolves
11-21-2009, 10:34 PM
Um. No he isn't. There is nothing about Tebow that fits the Patriots offense. The Patriots run a pro-style spread offense, which requires a player to make NFL reads, NFL throws, and have NFL level pocket presence. Tebow has shown none of that.

Tebow has an elite work ethic but simply has not developed as a passer at all since 2007. Tim Tebow will not be drafted as a QB by NE. If he is drafted, it will be as an H-Back.

edit: I am a huge Patriots fan. I have watched every game under Brady and quite a few under Bledsoe. I wasn't a football fan before that.

Uh please look at the bold and the patriots offense is the closest thing to Florida's offense in the NFL

Philliez01
11-21-2009, 10:47 PM
No, I understand your point completely. You're missing how the NFL works. Either you do what the coach tells you to or you don't make it. It's not determination that gets you to the NFL, it's skill. The Patriots are about nothing anyone can associate with Tim Tebow (aside from hard work, which every team is about). They prefer versatility over rigidness, they prefer team over self. They prefer under-rated talent over over-rated talent. Every coach in the NFL has a system and expects you to take a role in it; Belichick is no different and doesn't presume he can make you a better player (take a look at Kevin O'Connell who he thought he could make a better QB... was a much different QB than Tebow). Brian Hoyer is a better QB at this point and time. Hoyer is in the system, learning, and preparing if Brady were to go down. I admit that NE needs to get a 3rd QB on the team, but Tebow isn't it.

Either Tebow wants to succeed as a football player or he doesn't. If he doesn't want to be a football player, he won't be drafted by the Patriots.

Basically, you are saying he has questionable dedication to the game. I'm saying as long as Bill Belichick is making the personnel decisions in NE, no one with questionable dedication to football will be drafted, regardless of talent. He won't even be on the big board.

His skillset doesn't fit the Patriots offense. They don't need gimmicks to score. There is too much talent on offense. Unless Tebow demonstrates (through interviews) a willingness to devote himself to the team, he won't be drafted by the Patriots.

I know Tim Tebow moonlights as a football player but really is a philanthropist, but why would he not want to play football? No one who doesn't want to be in the NFL will be on anyone's big board.

Tebow is a dedicated athlete, he's a dedicated person, any ESPN d-sucking program will tell you that. Hell, even I love the guy to that extent.

Let's just look at the Patriots "preferences" vs. Tebow.

Versatility over Rigidness
How's Tebow not somewhat versatile? I do agree that he'll be a QB as opposed to a TE/FB/HB/GM but he does bring some skills to the table. Can't deny that.

Underrated Talent v. Overrated Talent
Not quite sure what that means. The only ones who decipher if someone is overrated / underrated are the teams.

Team Over Self
Really?

descendency
11-21-2009, 10:49 PM
Uh please look at the bold and the patriots offense is the closest thing to Florida's offense in the NFL

Minus the snaps from center (Tebow has a career 3 snaps from center, doesn't go well with his abysmal footwork), the stick routes (20 yard out,18 yard dig, etc), and the fact that Florida runs it as a zone read option offense (2 read, dumbed down offense). It's a pro-WCO spread offense. The Florida offense is based on HB dives and Tebow runs (zone option plays, basically it's either one or the other) and bubble screens (which the Patriots don't use that much, there are more slants and quick outs, which require high amounts of zip on passes, something Tebow can't do accurately.). The Patriots can line up 3 TE and run the ball (although, this year that hasn't been so true), something you never see Florida do. Any formation you run out of, you have to be able to pass out of in the NFL. How many times has Tebow passed out of a 3 TE set in college? Zero. The offenses have some similar plays, but are fundamentally different.

The Denver Broncos run more screens than the Patriots do. Why aren't people saying the Broncos (who have zero at QB now that Orton has been exposed) would be a target to draft him?

They use some similar plays, but you could find other teams that use similar plays.

LonghornsLegend
11-21-2009, 11:25 PM
I think he's closer to an NFL QB than most people give him credit for. Keep in mind there are a fair amount of QBs that dont have a strong arm and they're doing pretty well. I personally wouldnt take him but i doubt he'll get by 32 GMs looking for something to jumpstart a sagging franchise. Not sure the twist here, this stuff has been beaten to death many times over.

It really doesn't even have to do with him having a strong arm, have you seen his long slow windup? Leftwich gets the ball out alot quicker then him, and considering I thought he was going to correct some of those things this year I haven't seen it. He holds the ball below his waist before he releases the ball, he'll never make it as a decent starter with that bad habit.


There's only so much you can correct in a delivery, and you can't expect leadership to carry him to victories each week.

Sniper
11-21-2009, 11:30 PM
you can't expect leadership to carry him to victories each week.

http://www.sportsmonarch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/vince-young.jpg

Just
Winz
Gamezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Rosebud
11-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Um. No he isn't. There is nothing about Tebow that fits the Patriots offense. The Patriots run a pro-style spread offense, which requires a player to make NFL reads, NFL throws, and have NFL level pocket presence. Tebow has shown none of that.

Tebow has an elite work ethic but simply has not developed as a passer at all since 2007. Tim Tebow will not be drafted as a QB by NE. If he is drafted, it will be as an H-Back.

edit: I am a huge Patriots fan. I have watched every game under Brady and quite a few under Bledsoe. I wasn't a football fan before that.

Notice how I said Tebow is a Patriots guy not that he was a pats player right now. I also pointed out that he should sit on for a long time as he learns to be an NFL QB. I just think the guy is a Belicheck guy because of how hard he works, how hard he plays and what a good team-mate he is. On the field he needs work and we all know that, but NE is a good spot for him to do that work without too much pressure with a high caliber coaching staff.

BTW Tebow will not be drafted as anything other than a QB, he simply doesn't hold as much value at any other position as he might at QB.