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Sniper
11-23-2009, 02:03 PM
The Best DB in the Beast was a good debate, so let's move on to another good one. Who's the best WR in the NFC East? This should provide some fun debate.

Don Vito
11-23-2009, 02:06 PM
I went with DeSean, he is one of the biggest gamebreakers in the league. Pure playmaker.

Hurricanes25
11-23-2009, 02:08 PM
I went with DeSean, he is one of the biggest gamebreakers in the league. Pure playmaker.

Agreed. The guy is always making big plays. He has probabaly won some games this year on his own using his speed. He is phenominal.

Giantsfan1080
11-23-2009, 02:28 PM
It depends what you're looking for. I'd say right now it's down to Smith and Jackson. Also, Hakeem Nicks should be on this list already. At this time next year I wouldn't be suprise if he was hands down the best. In the end I'll go with Jackson and Smith as a very close 2nd.

Sniper
11-23-2009, 02:29 PM
It depends what you're looking for. I'd say right now it's down to Smith and Jackson. Also, Hakeem Nicks should be on this list already. At this time next year I wouldn't be suprise if he was hands down the best. In the end I'll go with Jackson and Smith as a very close 2nd.

Hakeem Nicks isn't even statistically the second-best receiver on his own team, nor is he statistically the top rookie WR in the division. We get it. Giants fans love Nicks. He's not a top-5 WR in the division yet.

DiG
11-23-2009, 02:31 PM
right now for me its no argument. your kidding yourself if you vote anyone but desean right now.

Todd Bertuzzi
11-23-2009, 02:39 PM
A part of me died when Nicks went to the Giants. You guys got yourselves a keeper. Could end up being the best WR from last year's draft imo.

Giantsfan1080
11-23-2009, 02:41 PM
Hakeem Nicks isn't even statistically the second-best receiver on his own team, nor is he statistically the top rookie WR in the division. We get it. Giants fans love Nicks. He's not a top-5 WR in the division yet.

Did I say he was the best now? I said at this time next year it wouldn't suprise me if he was the best and there is nothing wrong with him just being placed on the list. Way to just gloss over that fact after I picked Jackson as the best WR right now.

Sniper
11-23-2009, 02:48 PM
Did I say he was the best now? I said at this time next year it wouldn't suprise me if he was the best and there is nothing wrong with him just being placed on the list. Way to just gloss over that fact after I picked Jackson as the best WR right now.

Hakeem Nicks should be on this list already.

Considering I listed five WRs and then said other, yeah, you did say he's a top-5 WR in the division.

Sniper
11-23-2009, 02:48 PM
A little surprised this is such a landslide right now, even with Miles Austin's reduced stats as of late.

Giantsfan1080
11-23-2009, 02:50 PM
Considering I listed five WRs and then said other, yeah, you did say he's a top-5 WR in the division.

I'd have Nicks over Manningham.

Rosebud
11-23-2009, 02:51 PM
Hakeem Nicks isn't even statistically the second-best receiver on his own team, nor is he statistically the top rookie WR in the division. We get it. Giants fans love Nicks. He's not a top-5 WR in the division yet.

We know he isn't yet the best, but he's worthy of a mention because he more consistently makes a bigger impact than Mario already and is a much bigger playmaker than Steve Smith. Considering how little we go to him he really makes a huge impact and I can't wait until the playoffs when he gets some serious and regular PT under his belt and he moves up the ladder. Thus I think it's debateable as to who is more deserving of the mention between him and Mario, who is going through a bad case of the dropsies so far and has made some other dumb mistakes that Nicks just doesn't make.

Thumper
11-23-2009, 04:17 PM
Soon enough this discussion will be between Jeremy Maclin and Hakeem Nicks who are fantastic young receivers, both with bright futures.

eaglesalltheway
11-23-2009, 04:33 PM
Soon enough this discussion will be between Jeremy Maclin and Hakeem Nicks who are fantastic young receivers, both with bright futures.

Agreed, Jackson and Austin will be mentioned in there as well. Steve Smith will perpetually be overlooked by most fans, but I love him as a player

Forenci
11-23-2009, 04:59 PM
Soon enough this discussion will be between Jeremy Maclin and Hakeem Nicks who are fantastic young receivers, both with bright futures.

My thoughts exactly. Right now it's Jackson without a doubt but in a year or two I can see both Maclin and Nicks being elite/top 10 type wide receivers in the league.

bigbluedefense
11-23-2009, 07:13 PM
Its DeSean Jackson and it isn't even close.

The guy can kill you in so many ways. He's absolutely the best, and probably will be the best for years to come.


For the future, I think Nicks and Maclin will put their names on the list, but neither are ready yet. They will have big impacts next year though. Not ready to put them on this list yet.

I don't understand why so few of us Giants fans give Mario any love. I'm a big Mario supporter. I think he gets a bad rep. He's having a much bigger impact than Nicks thus far this season. Nicks has a bright future, but let's put it in perspective. He's not ready yet.

I always felt Austin was a little overrated. Now that he's seeing #1 CBs and help up top, I expect his numbers to drop significantly. Teams have realized that Roy Williams is a joke and they don't have to pay so much attention to him. So the attention has shifted to Austin, and he hasn't responded well to it yet.

I love Smith, but he's no DeSean Jackson. He's a solid number 2 who gets no love, but he is what he is. He's not a true legit #1 WR.

BleedBurgundy96
11-23-2009, 10:49 PM
Its DeSean Jackson and it isn't even close.

QFT. Its not even close.

Flyboy
11-23-2009, 10:51 PM
DeSean "The Beast" Jackson. Why is this even a thread?

Sniper
11-23-2009, 10:52 PM
DeSean "The Beast" Jackson. Why is this even a thread?

Honestly, I thought the voting would be much closer. It wasn't meant to be a "Look how much more awesome my team's WR is than yours" thread, but it looks like it turned out that way.

Thumper
11-24-2009, 12:09 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Giants+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+VBwkXFIoJnql .jpg

I can't believe he is running away with this, I knew he would win, but where is the Steve Smith and Miles Austin love?

eaglesalltheway
11-24-2009, 12:13 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Giants+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+VBwkXFIoJnql .jpg

I can't believe he is running away with this, I knew he would win, but where is the Steve Smith and Miles Austin love?

Or even Santana Moss, and I'm absolutely baffled that DeSean has every vote...

Rosebud
11-24-2009, 01:45 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Giants+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+VBwkXFIoJnql .jpg

I can't believe he is running away with this, I knew he would win, but where is the Steve Smith and Miles Austin love?

Austin has been quiet since taking over the number one role for Dallas and Steve Smith is always going to be ranked under playmakers like DeSean, even if he puts up better numbers on a more consistent basis and is more of a third down lock. It's why Giants fans like BBD say Mario is more important than Smith is or Giants fans like me who argue that considering the opportunities presented to the players Nicks has made a greater impact on our passing game.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 01:50 AM
Austin has been quiet since taking over the number one role for Dallas and Steve Smith is always going to be ranked under playmakers like DeSean, even if he puts up better numbers on a more consistent basis and is more of a third down lock. It's why Giants fans like BBD say Mario is more important than Smith is or Giants fans like me who argue that considering the opportunities presented to the players Nicks has made a greater impact on our passing game.
Oh? I wasn't aware the Austin took over the number one role for Dallas. Thanks for that insight. Nice to know facts are being discussed here.

I still don't like Desean in the red zone. Thus I'm still on the fence on who the best is. I think Nicks is more complete. Hard for me to bash Austin when all he does is make plays when targeted. Fact is, his targets have been way down and Roy's have gone way up. Final drive when Dallas needed a TD, it was Austin who made big catches.

BleedBurgundy96
11-24-2009, 02:17 AM
No offense to Cowboy fans out there but im happy Austin doesnt have a vote. When I saw this thread I was thinking there would be like 10 votes for Austin. I just think he was overhyped after 3 insane games vs IMO weak defenses. The last 3 games for the most part he has been shutdown.

Im not knocking the guy. I think he can be one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL in time. I just think the hype he got was way too much.

Rosebud
11-24-2009, 02:23 AM
Oh? I wasn't aware the Austin took over the number one role for Dallas. Thanks for that insight. Nice to know facts are being discussed here.

I still don't like Desean in the red zone. Thus I'm still on the fence on who the best is. I think Nicks is more complete. Hard for me to bash Austin when all he does is make plays when targeted. Fact is, his targets have been way down and Roy's have gone way up. Final drive when Dallas needed a TD, it was Austin who made big catches.

Does Austin or does he not draw coverages more than any WR on your team? Whether you call him a one or not if defenses are treating him as such he is one.

vikes_28
11-24-2009, 02:32 AM
Whoever put Steve Smith, you need to speak up now.

Sniper
11-24-2009, 09:04 AM
Whoever put Steve Smith, you need to speak up now.

No one put Steve Smith. Rufus McDaniel picked Mario Manningham.

Go_Eagles77
11-24-2009, 09:33 AM
My thoughts exactly. Right now it's Jackson without a doubt but in a year or two I can see both Maclin and Nicks being elite/top 10 type wide receivers in the league.
I don't mean to sound like a homer, but I think DeSean Jackson will be in that group, if he's not already.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 01:26 PM
Does Austin or does he not draw coverages more than any WR on your team? Whether you call him a one or not if defenses are treating him as such he is one.
So teams don't determine who their #1 receivers are anymore. Opposing defenses do. Ok. So each week depending on who the defense wants to defend more, that guy is the #1 receiver. Forget who the team thinks is their #1 receiver... that's hogwash. K gotcha. Nevermind that a guy gets paid like a #1, gets targeted like a #1 and is the first read.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't mean to sound like a homer, but I think DeSean Jackson will be in that group, if he's not already.
You mean you don't want to sound like a homer even if you think like one. K.

The whole basis of this conversation is messed up.

There are different kinds of receivers. Ones that are better running X routes, ones that are better running Z routes and ones that are better running Y routes. Desean is a better Y receiver than Fitzgerald ever will be. Does that mean he's a better receiver? No. Fitz can do things that Desean can't at the X spot. Who's who in the top 10 blah blah blah... it's all hogwash. You're practically comparing apples to oranges.

Giantsfan1080
11-24-2009, 01:44 PM
So teams don't determine who their #1 receivers are anymore. Opposing defenses do. Ok. So each week depending on who the defense wants to defend more, that guy is the #1 receiver. Forget who the team thinks is their #1 receiver... that's hogwash. K gotcha. Nevermind that a guy gets paid like a #1, gets targeted like a #1 and is the first read.

Salary means absolutely nothing when saying a WR is a #1. Your FO screwed up on the Williams deal. Also, Miles Austin has more targets than Roy Williams.

vikes_28
11-24-2009, 01:46 PM
No one put Steve Smith. Rufus McDaniel picked Mario Manningham.

I must have taken some drugs last night or something. Cause I could have sworn I saw 1 vote for Steve Smith. I was honestly torn between Miles Austin and Desean Jackson. Austin makes plays when it matters, which is ok, and Jackson has that big play ability. I voted Jackson.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 01:52 PM
Salary means absolutely nothing when saying a WR is a #1. Your FO screwed up on the Williams deal. Also, Miles Austin has more targets than Roy Williams.
False. At the very least it means the team is going to give that guy the #1 role, and Roy hasn't been demoted yet. Austin may have more targets in the last 3 games combined, but that's slightly misleading as he had less in the Philly win, more in the GB loss and more in the WAS win, but most of it came on the final drive and isn't a true reflection on the whole game.

I must have missed the announcement because everyone seems to think Miles Austin is now Dallas' #1 receiver. Trust me... a lot of Dallas fans wish that were true.

vikes_28
11-24-2009, 01:56 PM
So teams don't determine who their #1 receivers are anymore. Opposing defenses do. Ok. So each week depending on who the defense wants to defend more, that guy is the #1 receiver. Forget who the team thinks is their #1 receiver... that's hogwash. K gotcha. Nevermind that a guy gets paid like a #1, gets targeted like a #1 and is the first read.

So are you saying that Bernard Berrian is the best WR on the Vikings? :eek:

Giantsfan1080
11-24-2009, 01:57 PM
False. At the very least it means the team is going to give that guy the #1 role, and Roy hasn't been demoted yet. Austin may have more targets in the last 3 games combined, but that's slightly misleading as he had less in the Philly win, more in the GB loss and more in the WAS win, but most of it came on the final drive and isn't a true reflection on the whole game.

I must have missed the announcement because everyone seems to think Miles Austin is now Dallas' #1 receiver. Trust me... a lot of Dallas fans wish that were true.

I understand what you're saying. I thought you meant #1 WR as in best WR not as you're #1 guy in the playbook. I need to read a little better sometimes.

Jughead10
11-24-2009, 02:01 PM
Jackson is the best but he still needs more polishing. His big play ability is amazing, but sometimes I wonder how long he can go making these 50+ TDs. No one in the NFL has ever been able to keep that up more than a few years.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 02:08 PM
So are you saying that Bernard Berrian is the best WR on the Vikings? :eek:
Bernard Berrian is a mistake. That's all I know.

the dude
11-24-2009, 02:39 PM
I actually like Steve Smith better than Jackson. Smith might never be a true #1, but im not sure jackson will either. Dont get me wrong, I absolutely love jacksons playmaking abilities, but smith is more well-rounded and their production is the same in terms of tds and yards

*leans back and waits to get flamed*

Jughead10
11-24-2009, 02:46 PM
I actually like Steve Smith better than Jackson. Smith might never be a true #1, but im not sure jackson will either. Dont get me wrong, I absolutely love jacksons playmaking abilities, but smith is more well-rounded and their production is the same in terms of tds and yards

*leans back and waits to get flamed*

Agreed. Smith will be a player in this league longer then Jackson because of his route running skills, and he's just a more of a polished WR.

Giantsfan1080
11-24-2009, 02:56 PM
Like I said in my original post it depends on what you're looking for. Smith gets ignored because he's so consistent. He's there when you need him to make a play. He doesn't have the big play ability but that's not what we need from him.

Jughead10
11-24-2009, 02:57 PM
Like I said in my original post it depends on what you're looking for. Smith gets ignored because he's so consistent. He's there when you need him to make a play. He doesn't have the big play ability but that's not what we need from him.

He has more big play ability than I originally thought though. He gets behind the defense a decent amount.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 02:59 PM
I'd take Santana Moss over Steve Smith if we're talking today. Moss can do everything that Smith does, but can also go deep better. Poor guy just doesn't have a QB.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 03:00 PM
Like I said in my original post it depends on what you're looking for. Smith gets ignored because he's so consistent. He's there when you need him to make a play. He doesn't have the big play ability but that's not what we need from him.
He's probably the best slot receiver in the division.

Jughead10
11-24-2009, 03:03 PM
He's probably the best slot receiver in the division.

He can play every WR position. That's part of what makes him such a good player. I was wrong about Steve Smith, and I'm glad I was.

BleedBurgundy96
11-24-2009, 03:07 PM
I'd take Santana Moss over Steve Smith if we're talking today. Moss can do everything that Smith does, but can also go deep better. Poor guy just doesn't have a QB.

Or a Offensive Line.

He isnt in the poll but in a year or two Hakeem Nicks will be the best WR in the NFC East.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 03:18 PM
He can play every WR position. That's part of what makes him such a good player. I was wrong about Steve Smith, and I'm glad I was.
Patrick Crayton can play every WR position. Doesn't mean he's all that.

Jughead10
11-24-2009, 03:22 PM
Patrick Crayton can play every WR position. Doesn't mean he's all that.

Of course not. Smith can play every WR positions and play it very well. He's not just a slot receiver. He's hardly played the slot at all this year. Basically only when Nicks gets on the field.

Forenci
11-24-2009, 04:04 PM
No one put Steve Smith. Rufus McDaniel picked Mario Manningham.

Come on Sniper. You know deep down you wanted to choose Manningham. Sure Jackson is better, but he didn't play at Michigan!

Thumper
11-24-2009, 04:16 PM
Or a Offensive Line.

He isnt in the poll but in a year or two Hakeem Nicks will be the best WR in the NFC East.

Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson disagree, Jackson is a fantastic deep threat and is probably the best in the NFL but he is still developing his overall game and Jeremy Maclin is getting better by the game and he is becoming a trusted target for McNabb. Nicks is good, but it will not be clear cut like you think.

Go_Eagles77
11-24-2009, 04:37 PM
Agreed. Smith will be a player in this league longer then Jackson because of his route running skills, and he's just a more of a polished WR.
DeSean Jackson is a great route runner as well. Sure he has great speed but so does Ted Ginn, Troy Williamson, DHB, etc. If you can't run routes and catch the ball, you're not gonna do much in the NFL. He can and does run all the routes. People look at the TDs he has and assume all he does is run go routes or something. He gets catches all over the field and will continue to, even when he starts to lose his speed, which won't be for a long time anyway.

BleedBurgundy96
11-24-2009, 04:58 PM
Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson disagree, Jackson is a fantastic deep threat and is probably the best in the NFL but he is still developing his overall game and Jeremy Maclin is getting better by the game and he is becoming a trusted target for McNabb. Nicks is good, but it will not be clear cut like you think.

You could be right. Im just really high on Hakeem Nicks.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 06:20 PM
I can't lie. I've never been high on Hakeem Nicks. Never. When I watched UNC play, the WR I fell in love with was Brandon Tate. Scouts drooled over Nicks, but I never bought into it. His success this year kind of proves that the scouts were right about him though and I won't deny that. But I can't say I ever was on his bandwagon.

Rosebud
11-24-2009, 06:38 PM
To me a number one receiver isn't the guy your O targets the most or the guy who gets the most production for you, it's the guy who changes coverage schemes and creates space for the other receivers. Some teams don't have a real number 1 but IMO that's how to identify a true number one receiver and for Dallas Austin is showing he's a guy who makes defenses shift towards him and thus a true number.

As for Nicks I love what he brings, he's got great hands, runs very smooth routes and is a play maker, he'll go up and get the ball deep or he'll take a screen and rack up major YAC. He's got deceptive speed and elusiveness with great strength and physicality to run through secondaries. It's only a question of developing chemistry with Eli and moving up the WR ladder into a starting spot, both of which are matters of time unless his career gets de-railed.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 06:52 PM
To me a number one receiver isn't the guy your O targets the most or the guy who gets the most production for you, it's the guy who changes coverage schemes and creates space for the other receivers. Some teams don't have a real number 1 but IMO that's how to identify a true number one receiver and for Dallas Austin is showing he's a guy who makes defenses shift towards him and thus a true number.

As for Nicks I love what he brings, he's got great hands, runs very smooth routes and is a play maker, he'll go up and get the ball deep or he'll take a screen and rack up major YAC. He's got deceptive speed and elusiveness with great strength and physicality to run through secondaries. It's only a question of developing chemistry with Eli and moving up the WR ladder into a starting spot, both of which are matters of time unless his career gets de-railed.
So who is the Giants' #1 receiver?

Rosebud
11-24-2009, 06:57 PM
So who is the Giants' #1 receiver?

We don't have one yet, although I guess Mario is the closest to one right now.

703SKINS202
11-24-2009, 07:02 PM
Obviously Desean is by far the best right now but I'm concerned that some things could really hurt his game as he goes along in his career and takes more hits. I'd really like to see him add some weight to his frame and maintain that devastating speed of his. I just voted for Manningham because he was my favorite sleeper WR of that draft and was pretty upset when NY got him. He is starting to show his potential from his beast days at Michigan, if it wasn't for his bad perception and 40 time at the combine he would have went much higher, the giants were smart enough to take a chance on him and it it paying off. The eagles and giants are set at WR for a while. This division is full of young wr's with great potential. It will be fun to see Nicks, Maclin, Thomas, Kelly and Austin develop over the next couple of years.

BaLLiN
11-24-2009, 07:11 PM
So who is the Giants' #1 receiver?

well according to some defenses it was Steve Smith, others Mario Mannigham. Defensive schemes try to take away different recievers; in our case it was who was hot in previous games.

Maclin isn't the playmaker i thought he'd be, i thought id be crazy with two shifty playmaking wideouts. Given Maclin doesn't look as fast because his strides, he just doesn't seem to have the same burst, but is a good reciever either way. What's happening?

Nicks is seeming more and more like Dwayne Bowe to me as i watch him, body type-wise, and game-wise. He's a guy that causes mismatches, but doesn't have the height or speed to be a true #1. Which is fine because 3 #2's with the varied skillsets they have can work.

Thumper
11-24-2009, 07:14 PM
^^^
That's dumb... "DeSean's by far the best right now" and you don't vote DeSean? Okay... So you voted Manningham because you were pissed the Redskins didn't get him? So you didn't vote for the best receiver in the division even though that is what the poll calls for?

There is no way in hell Manningham should even have any votes right now, he can't catch the ball consistently and he is being out produced by DeSean Jackson, Miles Austin and Steve Smith. He isn't even the best deep threat which is what he does best, that title belongs to DeSean Jackson.

703SKINS202
11-24-2009, 07:29 PM
^^^
That's dumb... "DeSean's by far the best right now" and you don't vote DeSean? Okay... So you voted Manningham because you were pissed the Redskins didn't get him? So you didn't vote for the best receiver in the division even though that is what the poll calls for?

There is no way in hell Manningham should even have any votes right now, he can't catch the ball consistently and he is being out produced by DeSean Jackson, Miles Austin and Steve Smith. He isn't even the best deep threat which is what he does best, that title belongs to DeSean Jackson.
Dude chill out it's a freaking poll. I never said I was pissed the Giants got him and that's not at all why I voted for him. I voted for Mario because I think he will end up being the most productive WR on a consistent basis out of these 5 in 2-3 years. Everyone knows that DJAX is unstoppable right now, you can calm down now.

Go_Eagles77
11-24-2009, 07:30 PM
Maclin isn't the playmaker i thought he'd be, i thought id be crazy with two shifty playmaking wideouts. Given Maclin doesn't look as fast because his strides, he just doesn't seem to have the same burst, but is a good reciever either way. What's happening?

I'll admit that Maclin is not as fast as I thought he was. I thought the 4.4 was a fluke but that seems about right for him now. He is still pretty fast though and has proven to be a deep threat. The thing that has impressed me about him though is he is pretty physical and is an excellent blocker. He isn't quite the playmaker I thought he'd be like you said, but I actually am happy that he has proven to be an all-around receiver because DeSean is the playmaker, so they complement each other really well. He reminds me a lot of Tory Holt. I'm not saying he's as good or will have a similar career as Holt, but their playing styles are pretty comparable.

BaLLiN
11-24-2009, 07:51 PM
I'll admit that Maclin is not as fast as I thought he was. I thought the 4.4 was a fluke but that seems about right for him now. He is still pretty fast though and has proven to be a deep threat. The thing that has impressed me about him though is he is pretty physical and is an excellent blocker. He isn't quite the playmaker I thought he'd be like you said, but I actually am happy that he has proven to be an all-around receiver because DeSean is the playmaker, so they complement each other really well. He reminds me a lot of Tory Holt. I'm not saying he's as good or will have a similar career as Holt, but their playing styles are pretty comparable.

there we go thats what i was looking for "all around reciever" im feeling that vibe from him. Im not sure Holt is the comparison I'd give, but im thinking he develops into a Chad Johnson (play not talk) type of guy.

BleedBurgundy96
11-24-2009, 08:10 PM
Nicks is seeming more and more like Dwayne Bowe to me as i watch him, body type-wise, and game-wise. He's a guy that causes mismatches, but doesn't have the height or speed to be a true #1. Which is fine because 3 #2's with the varied skillsets they have can work.

I disagree that Nicks cant be a #1 WR. He has already shown he can make big plays. In time he will get better and better. His future is really bright imo.

Rosebud
11-24-2009, 08:37 PM
I disagree that Nicks cant be a #1 WR. He has already shown he can make big plays. In time he will get better and better. His future is really bright imo.

I think Nicks is going to be a Number one, he's got a great mix of that consistency that'll make him a go-to guy on third downs and against blitzes with his hands, strength and routes while also having playmaking skills as he can be a good deep option with his deceptive speed and how he goes up for the ball as well as when he has the ball in space.

D-Unit
11-24-2009, 09:08 PM
I think Nicks is going to be a Number one, he's got a great mix of that consistency that'll make him a go-to guy on third downs and against blitzes with his hands, strength and routes while also having playmaking skills as he can be a good deep option with his deceptive speed and how he goes up for the ball as well as when he has the ball in space.
You really love to use the words "deceptive speed" don't you? LOL. That's a deceptive adjective to avoid admitting his weakness. ;)

BaLLiN
11-25-2009, 10:05 AM
You really love to use the words "deceptive speed" don't you? LOL. That's a deceptive adjective to avoid admitting his weakness. ;)

i wouldnt call Nicks's speed a weakness, its not a plus like Desean's is, he has a shake to him, he finds ways to get to the ball whether it be his physicality, his "deceptive speed", a catch in traffic with his large hands. How he holds the ball with one hand on occasion is a problem waiting to happen though.

The reason why i cant say i believe he'll be a #1 is that i dont think that if he gets double covered or paid alot of attention to that he can make an impact on the game. True #1's find a way to make an impact when the defense is taking them away. He however can be a #1 if you think thats just him on the other team's #1 corner. My example would be Nnamdi Asmougha who got burnt by Nicks down the sideline, and he was out by a foot.

LonghornsLegend
11-25-2009, 10:47 AM
Ummm of course Miles Austin's stats have slowed down, he has 7 freakin' TD's already, did you guys expect him to break double digit TD's before Thanksgiving? Of course he's going to have some average games as well as huge games, let's just not write the guy off yet like he can only be an average #2 WR, the whole entire Dallas offense has been in a funk lately not just him.


Still who do you guys think KC was double teaming that entire game? It sure as hell wasn't Patrick Crayton. Yea I know it was the Chiefs, but let me know when they let another WR go for 200 yards this season(they do face Vincent Jackson twice a year so this shouldn't be all that hard), let alone 250.


The guy was on a tear, he was going to come back to earth eventually, but his TD totals are still up there with the league leaders at this point.



Yes DeSean is clearly the best WR in the division and I've stated that over and over, but Austin is more then just a flash in the pan that racked up stats vs cupcake teams. Let's give him a little more credit then that now. He's still likely to finish with 10+ TD's this year and his YPC is pretty ridiculous for a guy targeted as much as he is, and hell he's just finally started breaking out so you can expect some growing pains. He's not an Andre Johnson who has gone down this route before many years.

Flyboy
11-25-2009, 12:14 PM
Honestly, I thought the voting would be much closer. It wasn't meant to be a "Look how much more awesome my team's WR is than yours" thread, but it looks like it turned out that way.

I wish the 2008 forum threads from the draft board were still around. I hadn't been on the nuts of a prospect like I was on D-Jackson in awhile.

Sniper
11-25-2009, 12:20 PM
I wish the 2008 forum threads from the draft board were still around. I hadn't been on the nuts of a prospect like I was on D-Jackson in awhile.

Ha, I was at the opposite end of the spectrum. That crow sure is delicious. To be fair to myself, I was adamant about not wanting him in the first round, but didn't say anything after that. That's probably because I didn't think he'd last until the second, though. :D

Go_Eagles77
11-25-2009, 12:40 PM
I wasn't dead set against him, but like Sniper said I didn't want him in the 1st round. I wanted Devin Thomas, James Hardy, and Limas Sweed ahead of him. I was pretty happy we got him in the 2nd though, because I thought at the very least he'd be a damn good punt returner.

D-Unit
11-25-2009, 12:43 PM
Page 1 of the 2008 Dallas Cowboys Draft thread.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12803&highlight=2008

I'm bound to have a million of these, but it's always fun to start...

Round 1a: WR Desean Jackson - I don't usually favor WRs in round 1, but this guy is special and provides excellent returning skills as well.

Round 1b: CB Antoine Cason - The need is self explanatory. Of all the CB prospects, I like him best.

Round 2: DE Kendall Langford, Hampton - Small school sleeper, bound to rise up draft boards. Somewhere between 6'5" and 6'6", 290-295 pounds of animal. Highly productive and high motor. High motor from the DE position is a key trait in the Phillips 3-4.

Round 3: DT Red Bryant - I also like BJ Raji, but I'm unsure how his academic problem will affect his stock.

Round 4: RB Ray Rice - I love his compact size, low center of gravity, excellent balance and thunder thighs.

Shame on you Desean Jackson haters. LOL. jk.

But even though I wanted him, I knew his limitations he had due to his size. I wanted him because at the time we just lost Terry Glenn and needed a deep threat and kick returner.

Flyboy
11-25-2009, 03:58 PM
Ha, I was at the opposite end of the spectrum. That crow sure is delicious. To be fair to myself, I was adamant about not wanting him in the first round, but didn't say anything after that. That's probably because I didn't think he'd last until the second, though. :D

Dude, when he slipped to the second round I was DYING for the Saints to draft him. Even though we had just spent a first rounder on a WR the year before -- he was THAT good to me. Granted, we chose Tracy Porter instead who was a bigger need and when healthy has shown to be a great young corner so it all worked out.

BleedBurgundy96
11-25-2009, 04:23 PM
Ummm of course Miles Austin's stats have slowed down, he has 7 freakin' TD's already, did you guys expect him to break double digit TD's before Thanksgiving? Of course he's going to have some average games as well as huge games, let's just not write the guy off yet like he can only be an average #2 WR, the whole entire Dallas offense has been in a funk lately not just him.

Id like to see a guy put up big numbers vs a good defense before id say hes anything more than a #2 WR.

@KC, ATL, SEA - 21 rec 482 yds 5 TDs

@Phi,@GB, WAS - 9 rec 116 yds 1 TD

He was shutout for over 3 quarters vs both the Eagles and Packers. He was shutout til the last play of the 3rd quarter vs the Redskins.

Ill give Austin some credit when he steps up vs talent.

etk
11-25-2009, 04:59 PM
If I had to pick 1 WR, it would be Austin. He's the most prototypical.

Jackson would only remain his true self in 5 NFL offenses, give or take.

After Austin it's a tie between Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks will be the best when it's all said and done.

34/41 voted Jackson. Rarely see that kind of agreement on here, and it's not like this one is so obvious. Is the poll rigged? Where's the epic homerism?

BleedBurgundy96
11-25-2009, 06:58 PM
If I had to pick 1 WR, it would be Austin. He's the most prototypical.

Jackson would only remain his true self in 5 NFL offenses, give or take.

After Austin it's a tie between Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks. Nicks will be the best when it's all said and done.

34/41 voted Jackson. Rarely see that kind of agreement on here, and it's not like this one is so obvious. Is the poll rigged? Where's the epic homerism?

Actually im shocked its only 34/41 Jackson.

I honestly dont understand why you voted for Austin. What has he shown you that makes you think hes the best WR in the NFC East?

bigbluedefense
11-25-2009, 07:52 PM
To me, the #1 WR on a team is the guy who the defense focuses most of its attention to.

He's the one dictating coverage. He's the one who impacts the gameplan more than anybody else.


There are some great young talents in the East at WR, a lot of them are still developing. But at this moment, I just don't see how it could be anyone but DJack right now as the best.

DJack is going to be a stud his entire career.

Rosebud
11-25-2009, 07:54 PM
You really love to use the words "deceptive speed" don't you? LOL. That's a deceptive adjective to avoid admitting his weakness. ;)

To me deceptive speed just means a player isn't a burner but has enough speed to beat teams deep like TO, plax, Bowe and Nicks. Speed is no weakness for any of them, but it's not exactly their calling card either.

LonghornsLegend
11-25-2009, 07:59 PM
I wish the 2008 forum threads from the draft board were still around. I hadn't been on the nuts of a prospect like I was on D-Jackson in awhile.

I remember that very well, kudos to that. Most were talking about his size, and how he's not very complete, but I do remember very well you sig quoting how he'd end up being a beast and you were 100% correct on that note.


I used to like his running mate Lavelle Hawkins also, felt like if he had went to a passing team instead of the Titans he could of been very solid like a Jason Avant type player.

LonghornsLegend
11-25-2009, 08:09 PM
Id like to see a guy put up big numbers vs a good defense before id say hes anything more than a #2 WR.

@KC, ATL, SEA - 21 rec 482 yds 5 TDs

@Phi,@GB, WAS - 9 rec 116 yds 1 TD

He was shutout for over 3 quarters vs both the Eagles and Packers. He was shutout til the last play of the 3rd quarter vs the Redskins.

Ill give Austin some credit when he steps up vs talent.

Washington and Green Bay have great defenses now? That's news to me. Had he blown up vs them people would of still said "yea well do it vs a team that has some talent!!!


And who cares if he was shut out for 3 and a half quarters, or 3 and a third quarters, now his stats don't count because they happened in the 4th quarter? Oh ok.


Are we doing the same for Desean Jackson? He has at least 5 games of 3 or less catches, against Wash, Dal, NYG, TB, and Car. At least 4 of those are formidable defenses, so are we not counting those?


Who do you consider "talent"? Again your stating your case like Austin is a seasoned veteran. Your going to get ups and downs, highs and lows, how is he any different? If he didn't have some of those bad games he would of been on pace for like 14 TD's or something very unrealistic, if he was putting up 100 yards and a TD every week he would be one of the best WR's in the league which he obviously isn't.


If you want to look at his entire body of work over the course of a 16 game season that's fine, but I keep seeing ticky tack reasons to discredit his stats, like if he doesn't have a catch through 3 quarters what he does in the 4th quarter doesn't count for some reason. That's totally irrelevant.

BleedBurgundy96
11-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Washington and Green Bay have great defenses now? That's news to me. Had he blown up vs them people would of still said "yea well do it vs a team that has some talent!!!

Heres your breaking news lesson.....

Pass Defense Ranks
Seattle 23rd Kansas City 28th Atlanta 29th

Washington 1st Green Bay 7th Philadelphia 9th

If Austin would of blown up vs. any of those 3 teams I would of gave him credit. He hasnt done it vs a defense that is good. Until he starts doing it week to week then ill say hes becoming a top WR.

And who cares if he was shut out for 3 and a half quarters, or 3 and a third quarters, now his stats don't count because they happened in the 4th quarter? Oh ok.

Usually top WRs dont get shut out for over 3 quarters in 3 straight games. Honestly I cant remember that last time ive seen it. Its pretty bad IMO. He didnt really tear it up in the 4th quarters of those games either. At least not enough to forget him being shutout for as long as he was in each game.

The Cowboys have alot of talent. Im not a Redskin fan who hates on any Cowboy player. I just havent seen anything from Austin that shows me he is a #1 WR.

D-Unit
11-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Austin just burnt Asomoagh bad. Just sayin'.

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 03:24 PM
That was a insane catch and run by Austin over NA for 49 yards.

Now that play really showed me something.

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Austin just burnt Asomoagh bad. Just sayin'.

Yeah that was nice. Thats what id have to see before I can hype a player. He took on one of the best CBs in the game and beat him bad.

M.O.T.H.
11-26-2009, 03:41 PM
In fairness...that was blown coverage by the Raiders. Aso was expecting help but they followed Bennett. Bennett actually worked as a distraction for a change.

etk
11-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Actually im shocked its only 34/41 Jackson.

I honestly dont understand why you voted for Austin. What has he shown you that makes you think hes the best WR in the NFC East?

Outstanding physical ability, upside and playmaking ability.

DeSean Jackson is and always will be one of the smallest players in the league. He doesn't fit with most conventional offenses.

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 04:04 PM
Outstanding physical ability, upside and playmaking ability.

I just wanted to know. You didnt really explain it before.

I think he has those things I just want to see them vs better compo. The 49 yder on NA was a nice start.

703SKINS202
11-26-2009, 04:44 PM
I like Miles Austin a lot. He's got talent and more importantly a big heart.

Thumper
11-26-2009, 04:54 PM
I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 05:13 PM
I like Miles Austin a lot. He's got talent and more importantly a big heart.

Yeah hes really showing me something today. Hes having a huge day on the big stage.

I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.

This is funny as ****. Nice post.

703SKINS202
11-26-2009, 05:14 PM
I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.
At least he doesn't flail his arms before the goal-line and miss.

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 05:15 PM
At least he doesn't flail his arms before the goal-line and miss.

Dude I just spit my water all over my PC after reading that. JFC thats funny.

eaglesalltheway
11-26-2009, 06:10 PM
I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.

I have no problems with him, let the guy be happy. Just because he celebrates doesn't mean he's an asshole.

D-Unit
11-26-2009, 07:48 PM
I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.
That's hater right there. It's not a cocky smile. It's a happy smile. He's genuinely smiling. Not like he's taunting or displaying "swag". You're reading him all wrong.

dpl85
11-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Miles is an UDFA so every time he scores he is literally winning the lottery.

herniateddisc
11-26-2009, 10:26 PM
DeSean over Austin? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

BleedBurgundy96
11-26-2009, 10:44 PM
DeSean over Austin? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Right now id say DeSean is better.

Austin made some nice plays in a big stage game. I give him credit.

I still need to see more from Austin though before id say hes better than DeSean Jackson.

I will say Austin is better than any other WR not named DeSean Jackson in the NFC East.

herniateddisc
11-26-2009, 10:56 PM
Right now id say DeSean is better.

Austin made some nice plays in a big stage game. I give him credit.

I still need to see more from Austin though before id say hes better than DeSean Jackson.

I will say Austin is better than any other WR not named DeSean Jackson in the NFC East.

I love DeSean but let us be real, he can't run certain routes that Miles can and Miles can take it to the house with his legs on a short pass or by running past a guy and catching a post. DeSean does have better hands though but ehhhh not that much better.

Put Miles Austin in the WCO and he has 100 catches and 1500 yards. DeSean is not that type of WR -- he is a small explosive guy who can be taken out of games with physicality. DeSean is better served catching 50-60 passes and making big plays and saying healthy.

Only reason this is a debate is DeSean was loved by CFB fannies for years and he has played so well that folks over value what he does in context to the Philly system. Miles Austin still does not get respect because he has played for a mildly ******** OC, was an UDFA, and they still go through contortions to tell us Roy Williams is still the #1.

If Miles Austin was drafted in the second round 4 years ago, he would have been a starter 3 years ago and an All-Pro by last year. But he was UDFA so folks dissed his skills and was doubted.

A UDFA can out play, out practice a First Rounder and GMs and Coaches still go out of their way to help along the First Rounder. Miles should have started 3 years ago on that team but when you are so invested in TO, Williams, Stanback, Crayton .......

Hell they got a guy Hurd who is already better than Crayton but he is UDFA so ....

LonghornsLegend
11-27-2009, 01:23 AM
I hate Miles Austin and his stupid horse teeth smile, so irritating the way he acts like he just won the lottery with every touchdown, flailing his arms around like a ******** bird and ****, wipe the dumb *** smirk off your face and quit acting like an idiot please. I am really starting to hate Miles Austin with a passion.

Then you wonder why people call you a hater, this is a stupid ass post. He's an UDFA, happy as hell to be playing and happy as hell everytime he makes a play. Yea, way to hate a guy who just loves to play football. Your probably the next person who goes on my ignore list, you take homerism to new heights.

Thumper
11-27-2009, 02:25 AM
Then you wonder why people call you a hater, this is a stupid ass post. He's an UDFA, happy as hell to be playing and happy as hell everytime he makes a play. Yea, way to hate a guy who just loves to play football. Your probably the next person who goes on my ignore list, you take homerism to new heights.

First time I've been called a hater, your really the first and when D-Unit said my post was hateful I wasn't really wondering why, because it was. And, diligaf if I go on your ignore list? Go for it because ignoring me on a message board doesn't really bother me. I'll tell you what, since you can't grasp the tongue in cheek nature of my post which leads me to believe you won't be able to completely comprehend anything I post especially here on the NFC East board, I'll beat you to the punch; LL welcome to my ignore list.

Also to refute your homer point, I don't even know what you're talking about I even said I was surprised this poll was such a blowout, I even asked where the supporters of Steve Smith and Miles Austin were. And quite frankly if I'm a homer for thinking DeSean Jackson is the best receiver and not Miles Austin then you are clearly just upset that I am not siding with you and your biased opinion. A case can be made for each receiver in this poll and quite frankly it is so even (or at least IMO it is) that each different fan has a plausible reason for siding with the receiver from their respective teams and they wouldn't be homers for thinking it.

LonghornsLegend
11-27-2009, 02:58 AM
And quite frankly if I'm a homer for thinking DeSean Jackson is the best receiver and not Miles Austin then you are clearly just upset that I am not siding with you and your biased opinion.





Yes DeSean is clearly the best WR in the division and I've stated that over and over


Reading is fun isn't it?



But I guess when your just a raging homer you don't really take the time to actually read post do you? You would just rather look ignorant and go into rants about how your not a homer when all it does is make you look worse.

Sniper
11-27-2009, 05:06 AM
Miles Austin still does not get respect because he has played for a mildly ******** OC

And the Marty Mornhinweg/Andy Reid combo is just so much better. :rolleyes:

Whoo, baby, Miles Austin toasted the Raiders. Championship.

herniateddisc
11-27-2009, 07:03 AM
And the Marty Mornhinweg/Andy Reid combo is just so much better. :rolleyes:

Whoo, baby, Miles Austin toasted the Raiders. Championship.

1) Than Jason Garrett? Yes. But as I tried to illuminate, the WCO system lends itself quite nicely to Miles Austin's skills set even moreso than DeSean.

2) Same Raider that beat the Eagles and shut the "best" WR in the NFC DeSean? ROTFLMAO.

Sadly, I love both guys but Miles is a 5-10 catches per game type player and DeSean is 3-5. Each explosive.

Sniper
11-27-2009, 07:13 AM
2) Same Raider that beat the Eagles and shut the "best" WR in the NFC DeSean?

Never in my life have I heard of a guy who got 94 yards be referred to as "shut down". Consider that the guys who are allegedly so much better than Garrett had to use four backup OL and thought that throwing 46 times with a backup OL was a good idea. Yep, really "shut down".

ROTFLMAO.

Really? You're rolling on the floor, laughing your ass off? I can't help but recommend finding better things to do in life if a debate entertains you so much.

Sadly, I love both guys but Miles is a 5-10 catches per game type player and DeSean is 3-5. Each explosive.

So can you explain to me why DeSean has a higher catch per game average?

ROTFLMAO ROFLCOPTER LOLZ OMG

herniateddisc
11-27-2009, 07:27 AM
Never in my life have I heard of a guy who got 94 yards be referred to as "shut down". Consider that the guys who are allegedly so much better than Garrett had to use four backup OL and thought that throwing 46 times with a backup OL was a good idea. Yep, really "shut down".

9 Points. 2 of 14 on Third Down. 210 Passing Yards. 22 of 46 accuracy.

12 Targets
1 Catch for 51 yards.
5 Catches for 43.
0 TDs

I call that shut down given the 12 Targets and 46 pass attempts.

So can you explain to me why DeSean has a higher catch per game average?

Um, the moron Cowboy coaches REFUSE to run the Offense through their best WR b/c Jerrah spent a boat load on Roy WIlliams?

But here we go IN SPITE OF THE COACHES STUPIDITY ... ....

#1 YPC for a WR
#1 Plays over 20 Yards
#2 in TDs
#1 YAC per Receptions
#1 TDs per Catch
#1 1st Down per Catch

... imagine if he had McNabb throwing to him in a a WCO? WOW!

Sniper
11-27-2009, 07:36 AM
9 Points.

Clearly all Jackson's fault. :rolleyes:

Um, the moron Cowboy coaches REFUSE to run the Offense through their best WR b/c Jerrah spent a boat load on Roy WIlliams?

46 passes, 14 runs against the Raiders with a backup OL when Westbrook was averaging over 8 yards per carry. I win.

#1 YPC for a WR
#1 Plays over 20 Yards
#2 in TDs
#1 YAC per Receptions
#1 TDs per Catch
#1 1st Down per Catch

Against a bunch of nobodies. Congrats, we're really impressed with his 250 yards against the 28th-ranked pass defense.

Sniper
11-27-2009, 07:38 AM
9 Points. 2 of 14 on Third Down. 210 Passing Yards. 22 of 46 accuracy.

Jackson's the QB now?

12 Targets
1 Catch for 51 yards.
5 Catches for 43.
0 TDs

I call that shut down given the 12 Targets and 46 pass attempts.

Great. Now go find me the numbers which indicate how bad McNabb was that day. Find me the numbers for how many times McNabb got hit that day and was given no time to throw because he had four backup OL in.

Sniper
11-27-2009, 07:42 AM
I don't even mind Austin. Matter of fact, I like him. However, Bob's anti-Jackson arguments are just ******* ********. Yeah, great, the Eagles only scored 9 points against the Raiders. Move on. Did Jason Witten suddenly become a worse player after the 44-6 anal raping last year? No. This argument's headed nowhere, and bienvenidos to my ignore list.

herniateddisc
11-27-2009, 08:14 AM
.... Matter of fact, I like him. However, Bob's anti-Jackson arguments are just ******* ********. ........

Say what .......

1) .... I love both guys but Miles is a 5-10 catches per game type player and DeSean is 3-5. Each explosive.

Give it a whirl ...... might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension

This thread is about who the BEST NFC East WR ....... and in your mind I somehow am Anti-Jackson in spite of the fact I love him as a WR. But I think Miles is the best RIGHT NOW.

herniateddisc
11-27-2009, 08:31 AM
Jackson's the QB now?



Great. Now go find me the numbers which indicate how bad McNabb was that day. Find me the numbers for how many times McNabb got hit that day and was given no time to throw because he had four backup OL in.

So when Jackson has a good day it validates he is the best WR in the NFC East. When he doesn't, McNabb stinks.

So when Austin has a good day it is because he played inferior competition. When he has a bad day, it is because he just not that good in comparison to Jackson.

GOT IT. Precious pearls of wisdom.

Fact 80% of the folks think he is the best in the NFC says alot to me about how folks evaluate players. Reminds me of Pro Bowl voting ... and I love Jackson plus I was wrong about him coming out of college.

etk
11-28-2009, 03:00 PM
Fact 80% of the folks think he is the best in the NFC says alot to me about how folks evaluate players. Reminds me of Pro Bowl voting ... and I love Jackson plus I was wrong about him coming out of college.

I agree. Same boat.

Supporting Caste
12-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Right now? Miles Austin. Not even close.

I expect Hakeem Nicks to take the title in the near future, however.

Go_Eagles77
12-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Right now? Miles Austin. Not even close.

Care to explain?

D-Unit
12-03-2009, 06:12 PM
Care to explain?
Well... right now Miles Austin is proving it all on the field. Can his performance speak for himself? Outside of a long history backing, what more does he need to prove?

Supporting Caste
12-03-2009, 06:54 PM
Care to explain?

743 yards and 7 touchdowns in six starts.

Oh hey, DeSean Jackson has done almost that well in 11 starts.

Anyway, Jackson hasn't really done anything to separate himself from Santana Moss or Steve Smith, let alone Austin.

Dude, seriously. Come on.

Thumper
12-03-2009, 07:51 PM
743 yards and 7 touchdowns in six starts.

Oh hey, DeSean Jackson has done almost that well in 11 starts.

Anyway, Jackson hasn't really done anything to separate himself from Santana Moss or Steve Smith, let alone Austin.

Dude, seriously. Come on.

Great, stats do not tell the entire story. Take a deeper look into those would you? If you take out his mind blowing stats from the Kansas City and Atlanta games his numbers come back to earth. All of a sudden in his other 5 atarts he has 322 yards, 3 touchdowns and 21 catches. Lets face it, his masterful performances against KC and ATL are not what you can expect consistently from him, he beat up on two of the worst secondaries in the NFL. Also I don't know if you noticed but the #1 CB still stays on Roy Williams, Miles Austin is beating Chris Johnson, Brandon Carr and Brent Grimes.

DeSean Jackson on the other hand has been very consistent week in and week out, suggesting that you can expect about 70-100 yards and a TD a week. Not to mention DeSean Jackson can gain separation no matter who you put on him. Also DeSean Jackson has 1,222 all purpose yards this season to go along with 8 total touchdowns. His numbers have all come while being defended by premier corners like Corey Webster, Scrabble, Chris Tillman, Brandon Flowers and Jabari Greer clearly a more accomplished list of players than who Miles Austin is abusing.

C'mon man.

Jughead10
12-03-2009, 07:55 PM
Great, stats do not tell the entire story. Take a deeper look into those would you? If you take out his mind blowing stats from the Kansas City and Atlanta games his numbers come back to earth. All of a sudden in his other 5 atarts he has 322 yards, 3 touchdowns and 21 catches. Lets face it, his masterful performances against KC and ATL are not what you can expect consistently from him, he beat up on two of the worst secondaries in the NFL. Also I don't know if you noticed but the #1 CB still stays on Roy Williams, Miles Austin is beating Chris Johnson, Brandon Carr and Brent Grimes.

DeSean Jackson on the other hand has been very consistent week in and week out, suggesting that you can expect about 70-100 yards and a TD a week. Not to mention DeSean Jackson can gain separation no matter who you put on him. Also DeSean Jackson has 1,222 all purpose yards this season to go along with 8 total touchdowns. His numbers have all come while being defended by premier corners like Corey Webster, Scrabble, Chris Tillman, Brandon Flowers and Jabari Greer clearly a more accomplished list of players than who Miles Austin is abusing.

C'mon man.

Eh the all purpose yards is weak. Just use receiving and you can throw in rushing if you want. Most of these guys don't return kicks because it is too much of a risk.

Sniper
12-03-2009, 07:59 PM
Eh the all purpose yards is weak.

Really? Field position is weak? The highest punt return average is weak? Mmmmmk. I'll take your word for it. Do punt return yards count less than receiving yards? What about punt return TDs vs. receiving/rushing TDs?

Jughead10
12-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Really? Field position is weak? The highest punt return average is weak? Mmmmmk. I'll take your word for it. Do punt return yards count less than receiving yards? What about punt return TDs vs. receiving/rushing TDs?

But none of the other guys return kicks. Some because their skill sets don't make them good players for the job and others because their teams won't risk putting such an important piece to their offense on special teams and risk injury. One of the greatst return men in a while in Devin Hester, doesn't even kicks nearly as much anymore since he's become a starting WR. Miles Austin used to be a pretty good player on kick off returns a year or so ago.

Sniper
12-04-2009, 09:57 AM
But none of the other guys return kicks. Some because their skill sets don't make them good players for the job and others because their teams won't risk putting such an important piece to their offense on special teams and risk injury. One of the greatst return men in a while in Devin Hester, doesn't even kicks nearly as much anymore since he's become a starting WR. Miles Austin used to be a pretty good player on kick off returns a year or so ago.

So wouldn't the ability to return punts enhance Jackson's value, all-around game and dangerousness? For me, a 20-yard reception is the same as a 20-yard punt return, but maybe I'm wrong.

Jughead10
12-04-2009, 03:29 PM
So wouldn't the ability to return punts enhance Jackson's value, all-around game and dangerousness? For me, a 20-yard reception is the same as a 20-yard punt return, but maybe I'm wrong.

Sure it does. But that could be part of Miles Austin's game too. However his coaches now value him too much to risk putting him out there. It's extremely nice to have that ability but I don't think it's fair to compare all purpose yards because a different coach values his player too much to put him on special teams.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 03:58 PM
I likey, likey...

X - Miles Austin
Y - Desean Jackson
Z - Steve Smith

Supporting Caste
12-06-2009, 12:46 AM
Haha, dude, you're saying that if you take away Austin's big games he's nothing special. Who would that NOT apply to?

Moreover, the numbers I posted are just his STARTS. If you want to say his numbers are invalid because he had big games (LOL), then I'll say his numbers are invalid because he hasn't started all year and he obviously would have even bigger stats if he had.

Give it up. You've got nothing besides absurdity.

Thumper
12-14-2009, 12:13 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+York+Giants+v+Philadelphia+Eagles+VBwkXFIoJnql .jpg

Flyboy
12-14-2009, 02:21 AM
Oh, DeSean Jackson. You are so beastly. *blush*

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 08:09 AM
Ive said all along that DJax is the best by far. He's a top 5 WR in the league imo.

He's that good.

Bill Sheridan didn't help much of course. We didn't put Webster on him at all, played a soft zone all game and never once jammed him at the line.


Most of his big plays came in the slot when he had a LB and safety play him in zone. God I hate Bill Sheridan.

But he's a beast no matter how you slice it.

703SKINS202
12-14-2009, 12:17 PM
D Jax is by far the best, but one thing that blows my mind is how many times teams have just completely failed to cover him. This guy needs to be doubled at ALL times.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 12:25 PM
D Jax is by far the best, but one thing that blows my mind is how many times teams have just completely failed to cover him. This guy needs to be doubled at ALL times.

DJax has Steve Smith's ability (the giants version) of finding holes in coverage, combined with blazing speed.

He's just a playmaker in every sense. The new Carolina Steve Smith.

Im just amazed that Bill Sheridan didn't even have him pressed at the line, nor put CWeb on him. It was zone the entire game with letting DJax run his routes clean with no jams.

It was moronic.

Supporting Caste
12-15-2009, 06:45 PM
Miles Austin is still better.

999 yards and 10 TDs on 58 catches.

superman8456
12-15-2009, 07:12 PM
Miles Austin is still better.

999 yards and 10 TDs on 58 catches.

And tell me how many of those yards/TD's came against the bottom of the league pass defenses?

LonghornsLegend
12-15-2009, 07:49 PM
And tell me how many of those yards/TD's came against the bottom of the league pass defenses?

Dallas must of had the easiest schedule on earth according to most of you guys.

Forenci
12-15-2009, 07:54 PM
Dallas must of had the easiest schedule on earth according to most of you guys.

Haha, I don't think that personally but the person who said Austin is better than Desean Jackson is crazy if you ask me.

Besides we all play the same schedule anyways.

LonghornsLegend
12-15-2009, 08:00 PM
Haha, I don't think that personally but the person who said Austin is better than Desean Jackson is crazy if you ask me.

Besides we all play the same schedule anyways.

I feel the same way too, but then again Austin only has like 5 votes in this poll total, I guess if you just want something to argue over cool but it's really only a few people nothing to go nuts over.


People just keep bringing up the schedule argument with Austin like Dallas is playing teams picking in the top 5 of the draft on a weekly basis.


Well let me correct that, I don't think anyone is crazy if they prefer Austin, I just wouldn't agree, but it's not like Austin is just beating up on cupcakes. The only games he hasn't scored in since he became a starter is 2, Washington and Green Bay. So I guess every other team he has faced sucks pretty much, even though almost all of those teams Philadelphia faces as well.

superman8456
12-15-2009, 08:16 PM
Dallas must of had the easiest schedule on earth according to most of you guys.

No, I think Miles is a quality player, who has showed up in just about every single game making at least one play. But his stats are padded by the Chiefs game and some others. I'm fine with him being called a good player, which he is. But when you start calling him the best, and bringing up his stats to do so, then theres my problem.

Thumper
12-15-2009, 08:22 PM
No, I think Miles is a quality player, who has showed up in just about every single game making at least one play. But his stats are padded by the Chiefs game and some others. I'm fine with him being called a good player, which he is. But when you start calling him the best, and bringing up his stats to do so, then theres my problem.

Exactly, you can say he is a good player because he is but his stats are severely boosted by going against scrub #2 corners on Atlanta and Kansas City. People have to realize that those were isolated events and are not what you can expect from Miles Austin at all.

Forenci
12-15-2009, 08:22 PM
I feel the same way too, but then again Austin only has like 5 votes in this poll total, I guess if you just want something to argue over cool but it's really only a few people nothing to go nuts over.


People just keep bringing up the schedule argument with Austin like Dallas is playing teams picking in the top 5 of the draft on a weekly basis.


Well let me correct that, I don't think anyone is crazy if they prefer Austin, I just wouldn't agree, but it's not like Austin is just beating up on cupcakes. The only games he hasn't scored in since he became a starter is 2, Washington and Green Bay. So I guess every other team he has faced sucks pretty much, even though almost all of those teams Philadelphia faces as well.

I don't have a problem with people prefering Austin over Jackson, in fact I may actually prefer Austin over Jackson, but I do think it's a bit 'out there' to think he's actually better than Jackson as a player right now.

I think Jackson right now is clearly the best WR in the division, and if you want to lump Austin, Steve Smith and maybe a couple others right behind him in terms of ability or how good they are I don't really have a problem with it.

LonghornsLegend
12-15-2009, 08:42 PM
Exactly, you can say he is a good player because he is but his stats are severely boosted by going against scrub #2 corners on Atlanta and Kansas City. People have to realize that those were isolated events and are not what you can expect from Miles Austin at all.

So are we also going to not count Desean Jackson's 6 catch, 148 yard, 1 TD game vs KC also? Or did you forget that he played KC and 'padded stats' that week also? Austin still has more TD's if you take away the KC game, include Jackson', and also considering he has less starts.


You don't think Fitzgerald and Boldin 'pad stats' when they face SF, STL, and Seattle twice a year? It would be different if that were his only 100 yard game, or only game where he scored a TD.

Supporting Caste
12-15-2009, 11:39 PM
Haha, this stuff is just comical.

You take Austin's KC performance away and he's just barely lower than Jackson's numbers despite starting three fewer games.

Nice argument.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
D jackson.. It's not even close. The guy is out of his mind!

Supporting Caste
12-16-2009, 04:36 PM
Ok guys, humor me. So production doesn't matter. Fine. You can believe what you want.

So what DOES matter?

And since production doesn't matter, I'm going to point out the obvious: Randal Williams is the best receiver ever. You morons can try to tell me about the numbers or whatever, but I know better. The numbers lie.

Todd Bertuzzi
12-16-2009, 04:51 PM
Everyone who watches the games knows that Jackson is far and away the best receiver in the division and the poll clearly reflects that.

Supporting Caste
12-16-2009, 05:13 PM
yeah, but you didn't (can't?) answer the question.

WHY?

Rosebud
12-16-2009, 05:50 PM
yeah, but you didn't (can't?) answer the question.

WHY?

He does a better job of finding holes in coverage, has deadly speed that lets him create separation at will on any route and is off his ****** rocker with the ball in his hands. Happy?

Go_Eagles77
12-16-2009, 05:58 PM
If production is the only thing that matters, Steve Smith is the best receiver in the division, not Austin. Obviously it does tell part of the story, but you can't use that as your only argument. There are many factors that go into it, for example, the eagles spread the ball around more than the cowboys, and McNabb doesn't have to rely on DeSean as much as Romo relied on Austin when he got a bunch of those stats. Have you noticed how much Austin's production has dropped since Roy Williams has been improving? Austin isn't bad by any means, but the homer in you is leading you to believe he is an elite receiver, which he is not. DeSean is quickly becoming known around the league as one of the most, if not the most, explosive players in the NFL.

Supporting Caste
12-17-2009, 12:32 AM
If production is the only thing that matters, Steve Smith is the best receiver in the division, not Austin.


Smith: 85 catches, 1,053 yards and five touchdowns
Austin: 58 catches, 999 yards and 10 touchdowns in five fewer starts

Austin's production is better.


Obviously it does tell part of the story, but you can't use that as your only argument. There are many factors that go into it, for example, the eagles spread the ball around more than the cowboys, and McNabb doesn't have to rely on DeSean as much as Romo relied on Austin when he got a bunch of those stats.


Actually, Philly spreads the ball around less than Dallas (as far as Austin and Jackson are concerned).

Jackson: 24% of Philly receptions
Austin: 21% of Dallas receptions

I don't see how that's a good argument, regardless. Why would the Eagles try to throw it to other people if Jackson is their most dangerous runner? Moreover, why is it more likely that they're consciously trying to spread the ball around than it is Jackson just isn't open as much?


Have you noticed how much Austin's production has dropped since Roy Williams has been improving?

First of all, this is a terrible argument because it's such a small sample size and Roy's production increase is directly attributable to the double coverage Austin consistently sees now.

But I'll play along.

Here are Austin's numbers post "improved (read: single covered) Roy Williams":

32 catches, 436 yards and 4 TDs in 6 weeks

That production over 16 games: 85 catches, 1,162 yards and 11 TDs.


Austin isn't bad by any means, but the homer in you is leading you to believe he is an elite receiver, which he is not. DeSean is quickly becoming known around the league as one of the most, if not the most, explosive players in the NFL.

I appreciate you taking the time to actually list reasons why you think what you do, but your reasoning is way off the mark.

Supporting Caste
12-19-2009, 10:31 PM
LAWL.

Carry on with your superstitions, in that case.

herniateddisc
12-20-2009, 09:17 PM
If production is the only thing that matters, Steve Smith is the best receiver in the division, not Austin. Obviously it does tell part of the story, but you can't use that as your only argument. There are many factors that go into it, for example, the eagles spread the ball around more than the cowboys, and McNabb doesn't have to rely on DeSean as much as Romo relied on Austin when he got a bunch of those stats. Have you noticed how much Austin's production has dropped since Roy Williams has been improving? Austin isn't bad by any means, but the homer in you is leading you to believe he is an elite receiver, which he is not. DeSean is quickly becoming known around the league as one of the most, if not the most, explosive players in the NFL.

Oh sweet jesus.

DeSean is the bestestestssss. Austin is a JAG.

Incredible.

Supporting Caste
12-21-2009, 01:10 AM
Austin post-good Roy Williams: 39 catches, 575 yards, 5 TDs in 7 weeks

16 game version: 89 catches, 1,314 yards, 11 TDs

Not impressed.

jblaze66
12-21-2009, 01:22 AM
Ok so for the ppl that are talking about production lets look at the real numbers. (and since neither Austin or Smith return kicks I will leave that out but in reality it shouldnt be overlooked)

M. Austin:
65 rec
1138 rec yds + 11 rus yds= 1149 scrim yds
11 rec TDs

D. Jackson:
56 rec
1087 rec yds + 134 rus yds= 1221 scrim yds
8 rec TDs + 1 rus TD= 9 tot TDs

S. Smith (13 games):
85 rec
1053 rec yds
5 rec TDs

Now if we counted all purpose yds/TDs (415 ret yds/2 TDs) there absolutley no doubt who is the most productive player.

Thumper
12-21-2009, 01:33 AM
^^^
He doesn't lie, it's true.

DeSean Jackson stat tracker:
Receiving: 56 receptions 1087 yards 8 TDs
Rushing: 134 yards and 1 rushing TD
Returns: 17.3 punt return average and 2 punts returned for touchdowns
Total: 1,636 all purpose yards and 11 touchdowns.

M.O.T.H.
12-21-2009, 04:34 AM
I think Desean is the best as well but, Punt return yards shouldnt even come into question when talking about the best, wide receiver. It's not like we even use Miles as a return man anymore.

D-Unit
12-21-2009, 04:55 AM
I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...

Supporting Caste
12-21-2009, 10:28 AM
Ok so for the ppl that are talking about production lets look at the real numbers. (and since neither Austin or Smith return kicks I will leave that out but in reality it shouldnt be overlooked)

M. Austin:
65 rec
1138 rec yds + 11 rus yds= 1149 scrim yds
11 rec TDs

D. Jackson:
56 rec
1087 rec yds + 134 rus yds= 1221 scrim yds
8 rec TDs + 1 rus TD= 9 tot TDs

S. Smith (13 games):
85 rec
1053 rec yds
5 rec TDs

Now if we counted all purpose yds/TDs (415 ret yds/2 TDs) there absolutley no doubt who is the most productive player.

DeSean Jackson is the second-best WR in the NFC East and the best returner. No one would have argued with that.

But you homers insist he's the best WR. He's not.

superman8456
12-21-2009, 10:45 AM
I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...

Eh, Im borderline. Still wouldnt say best, but hes good.

DiG
12-21-2009, 11:14 AM
I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...

http://www.lmnotees.com/store/images/products/stan_97_M4.jpg

Go_Eagles77
12-21-2009, 11:28 AM
DeSean Jackson is the second-best WR in the NFC East and the best returner. No one would have argued with that.

But you homers insist he's the best WR. He's not.
Then how do you explain some cowboys fans saying Jackson is the best too? Look, they are both great players right now, and it's probably a matter of preference and opinion right now as to who's better. They are pretty similar players, but they also have their own qualities that make them unique. I honestly would not trade Jackson straight up for Austin and I'm sure you feel the same way about Austin. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree. This should be a pretty good thread to look back on in a year or two.

Todd Bertuzzi
12-21-2009, 11:40 AM
I just want to know if there are still any doubters about Austin out there...

I never doubted Austin, I just don't think he's on the same level as Desean. Then again not many are...

Right now I'd say it goes:

1. Jackson
2. Austin
3. Smith
4. Nicks

herniateddisc
12-21-2009, 12:06 PM
If anyone wants to see how to stop Jackson COLD look at the Dallas game. Press him at the line, get a decent pass rush and it is over.

Every time I see Jackson catch a deep pass I see him get 15 yards unabated off the LOS and McNabb frequently does play action off it.

Wayyyyy too much love for Jackson. Very nice player but more a function of poor D Coaching and good play calling by Reid.

herniateddisc
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
And Nicks might be the best of all.

I like him the best of any WR in the East in term of potential.

D-Unit
12-21-2009, 12:11 PM
Jackson and Austin are different types of receivers. Helloooo....

Supporting Caste
12-21-2009, 12:19 PM
Look, they are both great players right now, and it's probably a matter of preference and opinion right now as to who's better.


Well, I respect you for being able to change your assertion to something like this. It's much more reasonable, though I think the results of this season still show otherwise.


They are pretty similar players, but they also have their own qualities that make them unique.


LOL, you really haven't seen Austin play, have you? The guy is 6-3, 215 and can do everything. Jackson is small and is a deep route and open-field specialist.


I honestly would not trade Jackson straight up for Austin and I'm sure you feel the same way about Austin.


I don't think I would advise the Eagles to do that, either, just because you have something that works. There's no guarantee that Austin would work as well with McNabb/fit into the scheme as well as Jackson/etc., so it wouldn't be worth the risk.

I think Austin would be better, but I guess I would just take the conservative route in that dilemma.

I don't know how Jackson keeps winding up uncovered 15 yards past the defense, but as long as it keeps happening, there would be no reason to mess with it.

Supporting Caste
12-21-2009, 12:20 PM
And Nicks might be the best of all.

I like him the best of any WR in the East in term of potential.

yeah, same. It makes the absolutely sick that the Giants got him and we got Roy ******* Williams.

GOD DAMMIT JERRY.

Ugh. Nicks reminds me so much of Irvin, always did. ******* lame.

Go_Eagles77
12-21-2009, 12:32 PM
LOL, you really haven't seen Austin play, have you? The guy is 6-3, 215 and can do everything. Jackson is small and is a deep route and open-field specialist.
I don't mean they are similar in size, but they are both fast/good playmakers and excellent after the catch, while Jackson is faster and more elusive, Austin is more physical and is great at breaking arm tackles and stuff like that. (I'm not gonna lie, I thought Austin was closer to 6'0 than 6'3). Honestly, the reason we both might feel the way we do is I might value the qualities Jackson brings to the field while you value a more physical receiver.

Supporting Caste
12-21-2009, 12:51 PM
Really, what I value more than anything is touchdowns. Just score points.

nrcirc
12-21-2009, 01:07 PM
I don't mean they are similar in size, but they are both fast/good playmakers and excellent after the catch, while Jackson is faster and more elusive, Austin is more physical and is great at breaking arm tackles and stuff like that. (I'm not gonna lie, I thought Austin was closer to 6'0 than 6'3). Honestly, the reason we both might feel the way we do is I might value the qualities Jackson brings to the field while you value a more physical receiver.

Here is the value that the Cowboys' fan can not accept Jackson is better WR in 2009:

Austin Jackson

TD 11 8
1st down 48 36
YAC 523 326
Can do run block Yes Maybe

nrcirc
12-21-2009, 01:10 PM
yeah, same. It makes the absolutely sick that the Giants got him and we got Roy ******* Williams.

GOD DAMMIT JERRY.

Ugh. Nicks reminds me so much of Irvin, always did. ******* lame.

Yes he do remain me of Irvin a lot plus little more speed.

MilesAustin4MVP
12-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Miles Austin has better stats and less starts than Desean Jackson. 'Nough said.

Sniper
12-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Miles Austin has better stats and less starts than Desean Jackson. 'Nough said.

Right. That's a very even comparison. It's not like Austin had three years to sit and learn from other receivers while Jackson was thrown into the fire right away or anything. Hey, if we're going to make completely unbalanced and ridiculous comparisons, let's try this on for size.

First two seasons of career.

DeSean Jackson- 118 catches, 1,999 yards, 16.9 yards per catch, 10 touchdowns, 1 rush TD, 3 punt return TDs.

Miles Austin- 5 catches, 76 yards, 15.2 yards per catch, 0 TD

FreshBoy!
12-22-2009, 11:29 AM
:rolleyes: At what point do you draw the line? There's plenty of receivers that don't make an impact until years after they're drafted. The topic is: The best WR in the NFC east. Whatever route they took to get to them being the "best" is moot and pointless.

I really don't have an opinion enough to argue back and forth...but based purely on stats...Miles Austin is better than Desean Jackson as a receiver in less starts this year, which is what the poster stated. So yes...it's a fair comparison.

D-Unit
12-22-2009, 12:35 PM
You people should know that stats don't make the player. Based on ability & attributes, how would you grade them?

Size:
Speed:
Catching:
Route Running:
Physicality:
Blocking:

FreshBoy!
12-22-2009, 12:44 PM
You people should know that stats don't make the player. Based on ability & attributes, how would you grade them?

Size:
Speed:
Catching:
Route Running:
Physicality:
Blocking:

The problem is stats is the only fact based measurable. As seen, people will rationalize their opinion regardless. At that point nothing can be argued.

Just using that grading system, I'd rate it as:
Size: Austin
Speed: Jackson
Catching: Austin
Route Running: Austin
Physicality: Austin
Blocking: Austin

But a Desean fan could go the opposite for every category except Size(and even that can be argued to be pro-desean).

Stats is the only way to measure that takes opinion out of it.

Giantsfan1080
12-22-2009, 12:55 PM
Poor Steve Smith has the most receptions in the NFC and is 3rd most in yardage and he can't even get into the conversation because he's not "explosive" like the other two.

D-Unit
12-22-2009, 12:56 PM
The problem is stats is the only fact based measurable. As seen, people will rationalize their opinion regardless. At that point nothing can be argued.

Just using that grading system, I'd rate it as:
Size: Austin
Speed: Jackson
Catching: Austin
Route Running: Austin
Physicality: Austin
Blocking: Austin

But a Desean fan could go the opposite for every category except Size(and even that can be argued to be pro-desean).

Stats is the only way to measure that takes opinion out of it.
But stats aren't based off equal ground. Stats NEVER tell the full truth. Stats are dependent on team play.

Thumper
12-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson

Sniper
12-22-2009, 01:09 PM
Jizz in my pants factor- DeSean Jackson.

FreshBoy!
12-22-2009, 01:14 PM
Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson

Yea...See D-Unit?

D-Unit
12-22-2009, 01:25 PM
Size:Miles Austin
Speed: DeSean Jackson
Catching: DeSean Jackson
Route Running: DeSean Jackson
Physicality: Miles Austin
Blocking: ??? Probably Miles Austin but DeSean actually does block
----

Elusiveness: DeSean Jackson
Big Play Threat: DeSean Jackson
Ability to create seperation: DeSean Jackson
I think you all missed the point.

Austin
Size: 9
Speed: 9
Elusiveness: 7
Catching: 8
Route Running: 8
Physicality: 9
Blocking: 8
Total: 58

Jackson
Size: 6
Speed: 10
Elusiveness: 10
Catching: 9
Route Running: 10
Physicality: 6
Blocking: 7
Total: 58

No coincidence at all, but I came out with both of them being equal. lol.

Big play threat and separation are not really abiliities. It's like saying being a redzone target is an ability as well. They are combinations of abilities. I do think Elusiveness can be an ability though.

FreshBoy!
12-22-2009, 01:26 PM
I agree....I'm not disputing that, just more or less saying, it's the only thing that can't be argued.Haha, whatever...again I don't feel strongly about it to argue. I'm a fan of Austin, and think he's a legit #1, Desean looks to be that too...I just hope our secondary can stop Desean, and their secondary can't stop Austin.

LonghornsLegend
12-22-2009, 01:31 PM
Well if were looking at the Pro Bowl, both guys should make it I believe, with Fitzgerald and Sidney Rice, at least those look like a solid top 4.


I don't know why people want to keep beating this dead horse between these two, both put up pro bowl stats, both are really good. Arguing over who runs better routes or catches better is always going to have the homer come out in people.

Todd Bertuzzi
12-22-2009, 01:49 PM
If you were starting a team right now and age was not a factor, which receiver would you take out of Jackson and Austin? I'm going Jackson 10 times out of 10.

D-Unit
12-22-2009, 01:53 PM
If you were starting a team right now and age was not a factor, which receiver would you take out of Jackson and Austin? I'm going Jackson 10 times out of 10.
Interesting take. I would go with Jackson because I could find another guy similar to Austin. Jackson's speed and deep threat ability are special. That doesn't mean I don't think Austin is more well-rounded, because he is. But if I'm looking for that Y receiver, Jackson is at the top of the list. If I'm looking for an X receiver, Jackson is way down.

Supporting Caste
12-22-2009, 09:09 PM
If you were starting a team right now and age was not a factor, which receiver would you take out of Jackson and Austin? I'm going Jackson 10 times out of 10.

This really adds nothing to the argument.

Supporting Caste
12-22-2009, 09:13 PM
You people should know that stats don't make the player. Based on ability & attributes, how would you grade them?

Size:
Speed:
Catching:
Route Running:
Physicality:
Blocking:

Austin

Size: 8.5
Speed: 9.2
Catching: 8.5
Route Running: 9.0
Physicality: 8.5
Blocking: 8.5
Elusiveness: 9.5

Jackson

Size: 6.0
Speed: 9.8
Catching: 9.0
Route Running: 9.0
Physicality: 6.0
Blocking: 7.5
Elusiveness: 10.0


This little game is fun, but it's not exactly scientific.

scottyboy
12-22-2009, 09:16 PM
Steve Smith's all like "oh hai guyz" and everyone's like "es tee ef you". you lead the NFC in receptions and your QB looks like he has downs lolz. you suck.

Todd Bertuzzi
12-22-2009, 09:20 PM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to scottyboy again.

Go_Eagles77
12-22-2009, 09:25 PM
Steve Smith is like Wes Welker, great slot receiver and will move the chains and rack up catches for you, but lacks the ability to be a consistent big play threat thus he doesn't get much hype.

Giantsfan1080
12-22-2009, 10:09 PM
Smith has a higher YPC than Boldin and Fitz this year. Just sayin'.

Todd Bertuzzi
12-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Smith has a higher YPC than Boldin and Fitz this year. Just sayin'.

Well judging by YPC Jackson is the greatest receiver of all time.

superman8456
12-22-2009, 11:25 PM
Only way for this to be determined is if we asked all the DB's in the NFL which WR would they least like to cover in the NFL, and since thats not happening, it's fairly useless. I would love to see a poll on that though.

Forenci
12-22-2009, 11:32 PM
Well judging by YPC Jackson is the greatest receiver of all time.

I don't think he's trying to say having a high YPC makes you the best WR ever, I just think he's trying to say for a guy like Steve Smith who doesn't get a lot of hype due to lack of 'big playability' he averages more yards per catch than two guys who are known for their big/spectacular catches.

Clearly Smith isn't Boldin or Fitz, but the idea he's just a slot receiver who makes short catches and falls down after gaining a couple yards isn't true either.

scottyboy
12-22-2009, 11:49 PM
Only way for this to be determined is if we asked all the DB's in the NFL which WR would they least like to cover in the NFL, and since thats not happening, it's fairly useless. I would love to see a poll on that though.

that doesn't make sense at all either. Obviously a smaller shiftier CB is going to want to deal with a small shiftier WR instead of a big physical one, so that point is moot.

Giantsfan1080
12-22-2009, 11:50 PM
I don't think he's trying to say having a high YPC makes you the best WR ever, I just think he's trying to say for a guy like Steve Smith who doesn't get a lot of hype due to lack of 'big playability' he averages more yards per catch than two guys who are known for their big/spectacular catches.

Clearly Smith isn't Boldin or Fitz, but the idea he's just a slot receiver who makes short catches and falls down after gaining a couple yards isn't true either.

Thank You Forenci. This is in fact what I meant.

nrcirc
12-23-2009, 12:01 AM
Route Running = Austin - more receptions and first down
Elusiveness = Austin - over 40% more yards YAC than Jackson

scottyboy
12-23-2009, 12:03 AM
Route Running = Austin - more receptions and first down
Elusiveness = Austin - over 40% more yards YAC than Jackson

well that's because Desean ran passed everyone and caught the ball on the 5 freaking yard line. that's a stupid stat and you can't honestly believe Miles is more elusive than Desean. That's abusrd.

nrcirc
12-23-2009, 12:36 AM
well that's because Desean ran passed everyone and caught the ball on the 5 freaking yard line. that's a stupid stat and you can't honestly believe Miles is more elusive than Desean. That's abusrd.

Yes, I am. If you are looking for speed, without question, Jackson is faster, but elusive is not only for speed in NFL, and Austin is very good at keeping the defender in a distant by using his hand and know where to run.

herniateddisc
12-23-2009, 07:32 AM
well that's because Desean ran passed everyone and caught the ball on the 5 freaking yard line. that's a stupid stat and you can't honestly believe Miles is more elusive than Desean. That's abusrd.

DeSean is more the jitterbug CLEARLY but he can be jammed and when also properly doubled near useless.

DeSean is in the perfect role on the perfect Offense with a QB who throws a great deep ball.

Put DeSean on San Diego and he is a shell of what he is in the WCO.

Damix
12-23-2009, 08:06 AM
herniateddisc has a good point of system and players around them. I believe Santana Moss puts up everything Jackson has given the same opportunities on the Eagles.

That's why these arguments rarely work. I can say Nicks>Hixon because they've both played the same position in the same offense, on the same team and Nicks has outperformed Hixon. But if we go back in time and do everything the same with Nicks, and then go back in time again and do everything the same with Miles, who knows puts up the better numbers.

A lot of these talented recievers look even more talented because they are afforded to opportunity.

herniateddisc
12-23-2009, 08:58 AM
A lot of these talented recievers look even more talented because they are afforded to opportunity.

.... look at Miles Austin in Dallas. The whole way Mgmt did things and it took an injury to get them to WAKE UP.

Lots of coaches and GM who can't project performance or development and if not for injuries or major issues arising .... never give talented players opportunities.

superman8456
12-23-2009, 09:38 AM
that doesn't make sense at all either. Obviously a smaller shiftier CB is going to want to deal with a small shiftier WR instead of a big physical one, so that point is moot.

You dont think asking the actual players that Miles Austin and DeSean play against is the best way to figure it out? Arguing of the internet is the most efficient, really?

superman8456
12-23-2009, 09:42 AM
Yes, I am. If you are looking for speed, without question, Jackson is faster, but elusive is not only for speed in NFL, and Austin is very good at keeping the defender in a distant by using his hand and know where to run.

How do you think a 5'10, 160 pound WR lasts in the NFL? By being elusive. Let's be honest, how many big hits do you think his body can take? He is elusive as hell. He has to be for his own good.

Damix
12-23-2009, 09:45 AM
You dont think asking the actual players that Miles Austin and DeSean play against is the best way to figure it out? Arguing of the internet is the most efficient, really?

I'd like you to point out where he says resolving this on a message board is the most efficient way to resolve this.

The point is there is no way to decide between the two that will be universally agreed upon.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 10:22 AM
I think DeSean would thrive in any scheme. He's just a playmaker through and through. I do agree that he's used perfectly in Philly though. Reid definitely uses him right.

To be fair though, Austin is in the perfect scheme for his capabilities as well. Both fit their schemes perfectly.

You can say the same for Steve Smith.

All these WRs are great and do exactly what their teams ask of them. I think we can all agree on that. Me personally, if I could have 1 of these guys to start my team with, I'm going DeSean no questions asked.

Thats taking nothing away from the rest of them though.

scottyboy
12-23-2009, 05:30 PM
You dont think asking the actual players that Miles Austin and DeSean play against is the best way to figure it out? Arguing of the internet is the most efficient, really?

it was said "poll the DB's in the league and see who'd they would least like to cover" NOT "poll the DB's who covered Desean and Miles and see who they'd rather cover between the 2"
and even then, it's preference. Desean has more speed, so a slower CB may very well rather cover Miles.
and where did I ever say internet "arguing" is the most efficient?
but god forbid we DISCUSS and debate on a message board. What WAS I thinking? I mean, I'll just stick to "RUTGERS!!!!!!1111oneoneone!!!11 <3"
better?

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 06:17 PM
lmaoo...how could you not love Scottyboy? :)


Anyway, I <3 Hakeem Nicks. That is all.

I really think Nicks is going to be a special player in this league.

Go_Eagles77
12-23-2009, 06:23 PM
Maclin better turn out to be really special too or I'm gonna be pissed we took him over Nicks, especially because Nicks was the guy I wanted before the draft.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Maclin better turn out to be really special too or I'm gonna be pissed we took him over Nicks, especially because Nicks was the guy I wanted before the draft.

Maclin is legit. I like what I see out of him. One thing though, he's not as fast as I thought he was. He's still pretty darn fast, but he's a legit 4.4, he's not a 4.3 guy like I thought he was.

He reminds me of Roddy White a little.

I do personally feel that Nicks will be better though. Just my opinion. I think Nicks will be the best WR from this draft class. Followed by Mike Wallace. Followed by Britt then Maclin and Crabs in a tie. (this whole WR draft class was ridiculously sick and deep)

And before anyone calls me a homer (although they do have validity in calling me that for my statement), i did feel that Nicks would be just as good as Crabtree prior to the draft.

I felt his game was almost identical to Crabs.

But yeah, Im sure my statement is pretty homerish. But I don't care. I love me some Hakeem Nicks.

Thumper
12-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Maclin better turn out to be really special too or I'm gonna be pissed we took him over Nicks, especially because Nicks was the guy I wanted before the draft.

Maclin was on pace to break DeSean's rookie numbers before he got hurt, don't worry Maclin will be good too, he gets better by the week.

LonghornsLegend
12-23-2009, 06:51 PM
I think Nicks is legit, nothing homer about that, just be curious to see how much he elevates his game to. He can still stretch a defense, has amazing hands and judges the ball well in the air, I know it's already been said but he did remind me alot of Michael Irvin prior to the draft. Not that it really mattered because rumor was Jerry tried/contemplated moving up for Maclin so Harvin or Nicks weren't even his guy.


Speaking of Harvin I noticed you left him off BBD, he is pretty much a Steve Smith clone, granted he needs to get stronger and more power in his base but I don't see too much stopping him from being a deadly #1 WR in this league. He has more play-making ability then anyone from this class and you have to account for him, defenses will gameplan for him his entire career.



Nicks is very similiar to Crabtree, it'll be interesting to see who ends up better, but I don't think we can slide Crabs that far down considering he has looked this impressive and hasn't technically worked out since what, March? He missed OTA's to get comfortable, mini camps, Training Camp, Pre-Season, your average WR would have chalked this season up as a loss and looked terrible, the fact that he's looked graceful and poised out there says alot about his natural talents.


I can only imagine what he'll end up doing once he gets a full off-season of work under his belt. I like Nicks alot more then Maclin though, just because Maclin seems like a Lee Evans type of WR(which isn't bad), but Nicks game seems much more complete in the mold of a Irvin or Anquan Boldin. Crabs always reminded me of Cris Carter @ Ohio State in college and he looks almost similiar out on the field.


Still, if Harvin can shake all the migraines, bulging disc, and little nagging things he's shown me he's way too much of a play-maker and a really refined WR this early in his career to knock him. I thought the learning curve would be deeper for him but obviously not.

Thumper
12-23-2009, 07:01 PM
I don't see the Lee Evans comparison AT ALL. People need to realize Jeremy Maclin is a tough receiver, he goes over the middle, can take a hit, he blocks downfield with the best of them and he is still developing. He missed a majority of training camp and still doesn't know all the routes. If any thing he is a guy like (since we're makings huge jumps apparently (Crabs=Carter, Nicks=Irvin and Harvin=Smith?) Maclin compares to Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 07:18 PM
I think Nicks is legit, nothing homer about that, just be curious to see how much he elevates his game to. He can still stretch a defense, has amazing hands and judges the ball well in the air, I know it's already been said but he did remind me alot of Michael Irvin prior to the draft. Not that it really mattered because rumor was Jerry tried/contemplated moving up for Maclin so Harvin or Nicks weren't even his guy.


Speaking of Harvin I noticed you left him off BBD, he is pretty much a Steve Smith clone, granted he needs to get stronger and more power in his base but I don't see too much stopping him from being a deadly #1 WR in this league. He has more play-making ability then anyone from this class and you have to account for him, defenses will gameplan for him his entire career.



Nicks is very similiar to Crabtree, it'll be interesting to see who ends up better, but I don't think we can slide Crabs that far down considering he has looked this impressive and hasn't technically worked out since what, March? He missed OTA's to get comfortable, mini camps, Training Camp, Pre-Season, your average WR would have chalked this season up as a loss and looked terrible, the fact that he's looked graceful and poised out there says alot about his natural talents.


I can only imagine what he'll end up doing once he gets a full off-season of work under his belt. I like Nicks alot more then Maclin though, just because Maclin seems like a Lee Evans type of WR(which isn't bad), but Nicks game seems much more complete in the mold of a Irvin or Anquan Boldin. Crabs always reminded me of Cris Carter @ Ohio State in college and he looks almost similiar out on the field.


Still, if Harvin can shake all the migraines, bulging disc, and little nagging things he's shown me he's way too much of a play-maker and a really refined WR this early in his career to knock him. I thought the learning curve would be deeper for him but obviously not.

I completely forgot about Harvin. He's another one. Now that I think of it, ranking these guys is going to be awfully hard. There were a ton of good WR prospects in this draft.

I know the comparisons were to Boldin coming out, but I view Nicks as a poor man's Fitzgerald. (emphasis on poor man's). The way he locates the ball in the air, his hands, his ability to stretch the field even though he doesn't have elite speed. Similar to Fitz in that sense.


My one concern with Harvin are these nagging Migraines. He's missed a lot of practice and game time bc of it. You hope he can get that resolved. I know it gave Terrell Davis a lot of trouble in his career.


A guy who I REALLY like who doesn't get much mention is Mike Wallace. Wallace is going to be a beast. He's so explosive. He's ridiculously fast. Like a taller version of DeSean Jackson. He's going to be really special too.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 07:20 PM
I don't see the Lee Evans comparison AT ALL. People need to realize Jeremy Maclin is a tough receiver, he goes over the middle, can take a hit, he blocks downfield with the best of them and he is still developing. He missed a majority of training camp and still doesn't know all the routes. If any thing he is a guy like (since we're makings huge jumps apparently (Crabs=Carter, Nicks=Irvin and Harvin=Smith?) Maclin compares to Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt.

I was thinking Roddy White?

He's a tough guy with speed. Goes over the middle. Similar body type and skill set.

Sniper
12-23-2009, 08:24 PM
I loved Nicks before the draft and love him now. People claimed he was a possession guy but he averaged over 18 ypc last year and is making big plays now. You don't have to be blazing fast to make big plays, and he's proof of it.

LonghornsLegend
12-23-2009, 08:24 PM
I don't see the Lee Evans comparison AT ALL. People need to realize Jeremy Maclin is a tough receiver, he goes over the middle, can take a hit, he blocks downfield with the best of them and he is still developing. He missed a majority of training camp and still doesn't know all the routes. If any thing he is a guy like (since we're makings huge jumps apparently (Crabs=Carter, Nicks=Irvin and Harvin=Smith?) Maclin compares to Reggie Wayne or Tory Holt.

I get that Maclin is the greatest thing sinced sliced bread to you so no need for you to pump up another Eagles player to the fullest, it was just one honest opinion. And the other opinions were obviously highest end of the spectrum comparisons, nobody is guaranteed to reach to that point but I still see Lee Evans when I see Maclin. I can also see the Wayne/Holt comparisons too, but to me Evans is the guy I see and I didn't mean that as a knock. You didn't have to go into a huge spill about how he does everything well because I'm pretty sure you felt that way already.



I loved Maclin coming out, saw lots of him in the Big XII, I have no negative things to say about him, Lee Evans was, and still is a great WR who is just held back by Buffalo. I don't disagree with the Torry Holt one either.

Thumper
12-23-2009, 09:37 PM
I don't think of Evans as a very good receiver, I think of him as a #2 receiver who is primarily a deep threat. If he compared with anyone on the Eagles I would think he compared to DeSean but even then I don't think he is nearly as dangerous or as good. I didn't really go into a huge spill, one sentence to me doesn't quantify that to me, but I could go into one if you really wanted me to (jk).

The thing that bugs me a little is that everyone is gushing over Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Wallace etc. etc. when Maclin was out producing Nicks, Wallace etc. etc. and was on equal footing with Harvin as a WR prior to getting injured.

Thumper
12-23-2009, 09:40 PM
I was thinking Roddy White?

He's a tough guy with speed. Goes over the middle. Similar body type and skill set.

I like that comparison as well. And BTW Nicks scares me, he is the real deal and I had no idea that Maclin would slip (who did?) and throughout the entire process I wanted either him or Kenny Britt on the Eagles. Clearly Nicks is living up to my expectations of him, unfortunately it happens to be for a rival team. He is big and strong and it seems like people just bounce off of him.

scottyboy
12-23-2009, 10:32 PM
I don't think of Evans as a very good receiver, I think of him as a #2 receiver who is primarily a deep threat. If he compared with anyone on the Eagles I would think he compared to DeSean but even then I don't think he is nearly as dangerous or as good. I didn't really go into a huge spill, one sentence to me doesn't quantify that to me, but I could go into one if you really wanted me to (jk).

The thing that bugs me a little is that everyone is gushing over Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Wallace etc. etc. when Maclin was out producing Nicks, Wallace etc. etc. and was on equal footing with Harvin as a WR prior to getting injured.

so people should be gushing over Maclin because he got hurt? I don't get what you're aiming at here. We should overlook the fact he may become injury prone? Let's gush over guys who were good but then got hurt, and not gush about the guys like Nicks and Harvin who are pretty much beasting.

LonghornsLegend
12-23-2009, 11:20 PM
I don't think of Evans as a very good receiver, I think of him as a #2 receiver who is primarily a deep threat. If he compared with anyone on the Eagles I would think he compared to DeSean but even then I don't think he is nearly as dangerous or as good. I didn't really go into a huge spill, one sentence to me doesn't quantify that to me, but I could go into one if you really wanted me to (jk).

The thing that bugs me a little is that everyone is gushing over Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Wallace etc. etc. when Maclin was out producing Nicks, Wallace etc. etc. and was on equal footing with Harvin as a WR prior to getting injured.



Maybe because stats aren't everything? I honestly don't even use stats as a basis for rookie WR's, my diagnosis for each rookie WR in this class has nothing to do with stats, and who has produced what, I could care less about that for a rookie. Some rookies get it later then others, some are in spread/passing offenses, some have more veterans ahead of them while others are forced to start due to them being the best. That's like trying to compare Maclin and Kenny Britt due to stats when Britt plays for the Titans and Maclin plays for the Eagles, so you may as well throw those out the window.



Maclin is a good WR and he'll get his props eventually if he shows he's a beast, that shouldn't be anything that bugs you. If he's more then just a deep threat he'll show that eventually, if he's better then all the rookie WR's like I'm sure you think he is he'll get a chance to prove that.



I had Crabtree, Nicks, and Harvin rated higher then him pre-draft, and from everything I've seen nothing has shown me any different, but that was due to this being an incredible WR class not a knock by any means. I also would put Wallace ahead of him because I love Mike Wallace and like bbd he doesn't get nearly as much hype as he should; he's got great acceleration, hands, wr awareness, and reminds me alot of Eddie Royal and these types of guys are nearly impossible to cover.



I know alot of people who like Maclin as the best WR, I'm not one. He was starting to become very consistent after his breakout game, but I still like alot of other guys ahead of him and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I know you love Eagles players and think their going to be the best at their respective position no matter what, but out of Britt, Crabtree, Nicks, Harvin, I wouldn't place Maclin before any of them right now but things change yearly. All of those guys look to be more complete WR's now, and longterm then Maclin IMHO.

Thumper
12-23-2009, 11:59 PM
so people should be gushing over Maclin because he got hurt? I don't get what you're aiming at here. We should overlook the fact he may become injury prone? Let's gush over guys who were good but then got hurt, and not gush about the guys like Nicks and Harvin who are pretty much beasting.

No, I'm saying that everyone is gushing over them and Maclin doesn't really get acknowledged even when he was healthy. For some reason he is behind those two, maybe it is because DeSean takes up the limelight on the Eagles but regardless all I'm trying to say is that Maclin shouldn't be forgotten just because he got injured. And how can you say he is injured? He had plantar fas....(however you spell it) and he tried to play through it and tore it, so is Eli Manning injury prone?

Regardless I think he is being shat on in this thread by some, Lee Evans (no offense LL)? Mike Wallace will be better than him? On even footing with Kenny Britt (who Maclin has out produced despite missing 3 games this season, didn't play the first game and he has missed 2 with torn whatever the hell that thing is)?


Prior to Maclin becoming injured, Maclin and Harvin were on pace to become #2 and #3 in receiving yards for a 21 year old in league history, right behind Randy Moss and it was essentially going to be a horse race between the two for the #2 spot. Prior to his injury, Nicks was behind Maclin in touchdowns, receptions and yards. AND everyone was on DeSean's nuts last year (and rightfully so) yet no one is talking about Maclin who was having a better season (same receptions, less yards, more touchdowns). (There is a semi-large spill)


Listen I respect the hell out of all the young receivers and they're all talented and I'm not trying to say Mac is the best but I think he at least deserves to be in the conversation and not tossed aside as an after thought in the discussion because he had one injury.

Thumper
12-24-2009, 12:05 AM
Maybe because stats aren't everything? I honestly don't even use stats as a basis for rookie WR's, my diagnosis for each rookie WR in this class has nothing to do with stats, and who has produced what, I could care less about that for a rookie. Some rookies get it later then others, some are in spread/passing offenses, some have more veterans ahead of them while others are forced to start due to them being the best. That's like trying to compare Maclin and Kenny Britt due to stats when Britt plays for the Titans and Maclin plays for the Eagles, so you may as well throw those out the window.

Maclin is a good WR and he'll get his props eventually if he shows he's a beast, that shouldn't be anything that bugs you. If he's more then just a deep threat he'll show that eventually, if he's better then all the rookie WR's like I'm sure you think he is he'll get a chance to prove that.

I had Crabtree, Nicks, and Harvin rated higher then him pre-draft, and from everything I've seen nothing has shown me any different, but that was due to this being an incredible WR class not a knock by any means. I also would put Wallace ahead of him because I love Mike Wallace and like bbd he doesn't get nearly as much hype as he should; he's got great acceleration, hands, wr awareness, and reminds me alot of Eddie Royal and these types of guys are nearly impossible to cover.

I know alot of people who like Maclin as the best WR, I'm not one. He was starting to become very consistent after his breakout game, but I still like alot of other guys ahead of him and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I know you love Eagles players and think their going to be the best at their respective position no matter what, but out of Britt, Crabtree, Nicks, Harvin, I wouldn't place Maclin before any of them right now but things change yearly. All of those guys look to be more complete WR's now, and longterm then Maclin IMHO.

Fair enough, I do think that with the way things are going aside from DHB this first round draft class is the best in a while by a long shot, this class is shaping up to be what the 2004 class was supposed to be (the one with Fitz, Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Jenkins and Rashaun Woods).

bigbluedefense
12-24-2009, 09:38 AM
To be fair, Nicks missed a couple of games bc of injury himself. Not to mention it took him until 2 weeks ago to finally crack the starting lineup bc Coughlin rarely ever plays rookies.

And he still put up the #s he's put up as a seldom used #3 for most of the season.

A lot of rookie WRs haven't gotten as much playing time as Maclin.

None of us here are ripping on Maclin, we all think he's going to be very good. Its just that we prefer a couple of guys over him, thats all.

I think it speaks more to how sick and deep this WR class is opposed to any knocks on Maclin.

Id take Maclin on the Giants any day, its no knock on Maclin.

herniateddisc
01-03-2010, 04:37 PM
Miles Austin is better than Jackson.

Jackson hears footsteps. Nice Post Route runner however.

superman8456
01-03-2010, 07:52 PM
Miles Austin is better than Jackson.

Jackson hears footsteps. Nice Post Route runner however.

I guess Patrick Crayton is better too.

herniateddisc
01-03-2010, 08:47 PM
I guess Patrick Crayton is better too.

Funny. No. Crayton is a #3. Jackosn is a #2. Austin is a #1.

Forenci
01-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Funny. No. Crayton is a #3. Jackosn is a #2. Austin is a #1.

Jackson is a #2? Yeah okay. You shut him down one game and he's going back to being a number two? If McNabb had time to throw the ball, and didn't over throw him he'd have gone for six today, at least.

Also, I love Miles Austin (friend of mine actually knew him when he went to Monmouth) but can we actually see him do this for another year before we say he's the best thing since sliced bread at the WR position?

Personally I think he'll do this and more next year being a full time starter, but I'd like to see him a full year in addition to this year before we anoint him.

herniateddisc
01-03-2010, 09:20 PM
Jackson is a #2? Yeah okay. You shut him down one game and he's going back to being a number two? If McNabb had time to throw the ball, and didn't over throw him he'd have gone for six today, at least.

Also, I love Miles Austin (friend of mine actually knew him when he went to Monmouth) but can we actually see him do this for another year before we say he's the best thing since sliced bread at the WR position?

Personally I think he'll do this and more next year being a full time starter, but I'd like to see him a full year in addition to this year before we anoint him.

Um, we shut Jackson down BOTH games. And not very hard either.

So Jackson is great and proven but Austin is not??

scottyboy
01-03-2010, 09:21 PM
now I'm not saying anything...just that Steve Smith led the NFC in receiving...

M.O.T.H.
01-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Receptions...but Austin and Rice had more yards and Tds.

scottyboy
01-03-2010, 09:33 PM
Receptions...but Austin and Rice had more yards and Tds.

pfft everyone knows yards and TD's are over rated!

herniateddisc
01-03-2010, 09:34 PM
I love the GMen WR.

Forenci
01-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Um, we shut Jackson down BOTH games. And not very hard either.

So Jackson is great and proven but Austin is not??

Well Jackson was very good his rookie year, and very good this year. I'd say that's fairly proven.

Like I said though, I think Austin will be fantastic in the future, I'd just like to see him do it a little longer first is all.

Go_Eagles77
01-03-2010, 10:54 PM
Um, we shut Jackson down BOTH games. And not very hard either.

I'm in no position to defend anyone or make excuses right now, but DeSean would have broken the record for 50+ yard TDs today if McNabb would have got him the ball on that one play. Technically the cowboys did shut him down, but all I'm saying is it's not gonna be so easy every time you face him.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-03-2010, 11:03 PM
Miles Austin is the best number one WR. But Desean Jackson is a better all around football player. And more fun to watch.

But if the question is best WR-Miles Austin is it.

IMO

scottyboy
01-03-2010, 11:35 PM
god, stupid homers. Sinorice Moss is clearly the best WR in the NFC East. Austin? please, he's had one good year.
Jackson? He's only good for lucky fluke big plays.
It's all about Sinorice Moss

Go_Eagles77
01-03-2010, 11:43 PM
god, stupid homers. Sinorice Moss is clearly the best WR in the NFC East. Austin? please, he's had one good year.
Jackson? He's only good for lucky fluke big plays.
It's all about Sinorice Moss
Haha, I remember being so jealous when you guys got Moss, we ended up getting Jason Avant in that draft instead who has actually turned into a very good slot receiver for us.

MilesAustin4MVP
01-04-2010, 10:20 AM
I can only laugh at the idea of Desean Jackson being better than Austin. Take away the deep routes and the guy can't do squat. Austin is a complete receiver and can hurt you in a lot of different ways.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm sorry but as much as I like Austin, its still not even close to me. DJax all the way.

DJax is by far the best in this division. Saying "take away his deep catches and he's nothing" is like saying the same thing about Randy Moss.

I bet if you were to poll DCs around the league, most of them would be more worried about DJax compared to Austin.

I know if I had my choice of any WR in our division, Id take DJax and not even think twice about it. Its a no brainer to me quite honestly.

Go_Eagles77
01-04-2010, 11:30 AM
I can only laugh at the idea of Desean Jackson being better than Austin. Take away the deep routes and the guy can't do squat. Austin is a complete receiver and can hurt you in a lot of different ways.
That's like saying take away Chris Johnson's speed and he's not the same. That's what makes him so great. Plus it's not even true, DeSean is a great route runner, and not just a post route. There are a lot of fast WRs in the NFL, the way DeSean runs routes separates himself from the DHBs and Troy Williamsons of the world.

MilesAustin4MVP
01-04-2010, 11:44 AM
You guys misunderstood me. When I said "take away the deep routes" I didn't mean ignore it, I meant when the defenses take away the deep routes he is nothing as last game showed. If defenses play two deep safeties, or have a deep safety shaded to his side on a consistent basis you can take him out of the game.

You can't do that to Austin. Austin can beat you deep, he can beat you over the middle, short, intermediate, whatever you can't take Austin out of the game because there is so many facets to his game.

So it is pretty clear that Austin is numero uno in the NFC East.

Go_Eagles77
01-04-2010, 11:57 AM
Like I mentioned before, DeSean would have had another 50+ yarder yesterday if McNabb wouldn't have overthrown him. Even though that is what the cowboys focused on preventing, they still almost gave one up. Hell that is what every team focuses on preventing, and he still tied the record for 50+ yard TDs in a season this year. That says a lot.

D-Unit
01-04-2010, 02:13 PM
I gotta go with Desean Jackson even though Austin is a more complete player.

Reason: I can find another Austin. I can't find another Jackson.

FYI... if Desean Jackson wore a Cowboys uniform, somebody's forum name would be DeseanJackson4MVP.

bigbluedefense
01-04-2010, 02:14 PM
DJax just runs deep bc he does his team more service by running deep. He clears out the intermediate and short routes for his teammates. Its the Randy Moss effect.

Why does Moss rarely run a slant? Bc he does his team more good by going deep and letting his teammate run the slant.

herniateddisc
01-04-2010, 02:41 PM
I'm sorry but as much as I like Austin, its still not even close to me. DJax all the way.

DJax is by far the best in this division. Saying "take away his deep catches and he's nothing" is like saying the same thing about Randy Moss.

I bet if you were to poll DCs around the league, most of them would be more worried about DJax compared to Austin.

I know if I had my choice of any WR in our division, Id take DJax and not even think twice about it. Its a no brainer to me quite honestly.

Well if you want a one dimensional WR who is scared to make catches in the middle of the field and can't beat over the top safety coverage ... sure, DJax is a beast.

herniateddisc
01-04-2010, 02:43 PM
I gotta go with Desean Jackson even though Austin is a more complete player.

Reason: I can find another Austin. I can't find another Jackson.

FYI... if Desean Jackson wore a Cowboys uniform, somebody's forum name would be DeseanJackson4MVP.

Another Austin? Really?

Now that is a wopper b/c I can find a DJax every year in the draft. Small fast and run post patterns.

But a 6'3 220 lbs 4.4 WR who makes tough catches deep and short and can YAC.....

This kid just had a Andre Johnson type year missing 4 games and you guys are waxing poetically about a one dimensional WR.

herniateddisc
01-04-2010, 02:44 PM
Like I mentioned before, DeSean would have had another 50+ yarder yesterday if McNabb wouldn't have overthrown him. Even though that is what the cowboys focused on preventing, they still almost gave one up. Hell that is what every team focuses on preventing, and he still tied the record for 50+ yard TDs in a season this year. That says a lot.

Well if TNew had not fallen to sleep with DJax's stutter stepping ...... lots of IFs in football.

Fact is the GMen fans are over rating DJax bc/ their coverage is sooooo bad and Jackson was getting wide open v them.

Jackson did squat to the Cowboys b/c 1) he can't outrun a safety 20 yards off the LOS and 2) He does not make tough catches in the middle or the fiedl with any consistency and 3) made all the more difficult b/c tiny WR are harder to find as they are sprinting thru the trash. I am sure McNabb can't even find him most of the time when he runs those short routes.

D-Unit
01-04-2010, 02:57 PM
Another Austin? Really?

Now that is a wopper b/c I can find a DJax every year in the draft. Small fast and run post patterns.

But a 6'3 220 lbs 4.4 WR who makes tough catches deep and short and can YAC.....
Every year? Really? Then name me 5 Desean Jackson's currently in the NFL.

My 5 Austins...

Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin

eh I could go on...
Vincent Jackson
Sidney Rice
Calvin Johnson
Marques Colston
Hakeem Nicks

...and on...
Chad Ochocinco
Dwayne Bowe

...is that enough? I love Austin, but what he provides (size/skill combination)is really not that uncommon.

MilesAustin4MVP
01-04-2010, 03:46 PM
I gotta go with Desean Jackson even though Austin is a more complete player.

Reason: I can find another Austin. I can't find another Jackson.

FYI... if Desean Jackson wore a Cowboys uniform, somebody's forum name would be DeseanJackson4MVP.

Yeah because it is so easy to find a WR who can put up 1,320 yards after starting only 12 games. Great point! [/sarcasm]

I bet you think our last draft sucks also. Considering we got John Phillips, Victor Butler, Buehler, Mike Hamlin, and Jason Williams in that draft. Ha!

herniateddisc
01-04-2010, 03:51 PM
Every year? Really? Then name me 5 Desean Jackson's currently in the NFL.

My 5 Austins...

Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
Reggie Wayne
Brandon Marshall
Anquan Boldin

eh I could go on...
Vincent Jackson
Sidney Rice
Calvin Johnson
Marques Colston
Hakeem Nicks

...and on...
Chad Ochocinco
Dwayne Bowe

...is that enough? I love Austin, but what he provides (size/skill combination)is really not that uncommon.

Bowe, Nicks, Colston, Boldin, Wayne, Rice -- not the same speed. Not even sure, Jackson, Fitz, Marshall are either. Chad is shot. Calvin and Andre J ...... similar.

Again, DJax is not a #1. I think your list proves that. He is a small scat WR who is suited as a decoy and occasional big pass downfield.

MilesAustin4MVP
01-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Bowe, Nicks, Colston, Boldin, Wayne, Rice -- not the same speed. Not even sure, Jackson, Fitz, Marshall are either. Chad is shot. Calvin and Andre J ...... similar.

Again, DJax is not a #1. I think your list proves that. He is a small scat WR who is suited as a decoy and occasional big pass downfield.

Jackson is like a rich man's version of Devery Henderson. Jacoby Ford is a similar type of player.

Go_Eagles77
01-04-2010, 04:02 PM
Bowe, Nicks, Colston, Boldin, Wayne, Rice -- not the same speed. Not even sure, Jackson, Fitz, Marshall are either. Chad is shot. Calvin and Andre J ...... similar.

Again, DJax is not a #1. I think your list proves that. He is a small scat WR who is suited as a decoy and occasional big pass downfield.
http://www.nfl.com/players/deseanjackson/profile?id=JAC127681

Yep, those look like the stats of a #2 receiver all right.

BTW, this is only his 2nd year in the NFL. Most WRs take at least 3 years to reach their true potential. Now that's a scary thought.

MilesAustin4MVP
01-04-2010, 05:26 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/deseanjackson/profile?id=JAC127681

Yep, those look like the stats of a #2 receiver all right.

BTW, this is only his 2nd year in the NFL. Most WRs take at least 3 years to reach their true potential. Now that's a scary thought.

Except Desean has reached his full potential. With his size the only thing he can be in the NFL is a deep threat, an excellent one at that, but Jackson is not going to get any better than he is now.

herniateddisc
01-04-2010, 05:49 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/deseanjackson/profile?id=JAC127681

Yep, those look like the stats of a #2 receiver all right.

BTW, this is only his 2nd year in the NFL. Most WRs take at least 3 years to reach their true potential. Now that's a scary thought.

Well, I will go on board as saying this is the BEST year DJax will ever have.

I think the NFL will figure it out and take it away. They always do.

D-Unit
01-04-2010, 05:50 PM
Yeah because it is so easy to find a WR who can put up 1,320 yards after starting only 12 games. Great point! [/sarcasm]

I bet you think our last draft sucks also. Considering we got John Phillips, Victor Butler, Buehler, Mike Hamlin, and Jason Williams in that draft. Ha!
Are your pants on fire? Control your emotions and raise the level of maturity in your posts.

If your counter is to put Austin's stats on the table, then you need to recognize that he is a recipient of those stats. He's a Wide out. He's a byproduct of those stats. Those stats can be attributed to play calling, QB play, OL play, heck.. the rest of the offense AND the defense too! Football is the ultimate team sport so if you're going to pin his numbers to prove how good he is, then that is not solid footing. He's a partial credit to those stats, but they are not completely his.

You're right about the draft though. I DO think it SUCKED. Outside of a kick off specialists, your bragging about backups, many of which haven't sniffed the field.