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View Full Version : Amobi Okoye will NOT be a Buc


etk
03-11-2007, 12:08 PM
I'm surprised it took me this long to realize this, I'm surprised nobody has realized this yet.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/3235

Kevin Carter is not going to be a base DE for us, we have all been confused by the label "Kevin Carter DE signs with Buccaneers". He is 6'6 305 and will be a DT for us, probbaly mixed in the rotation with Wyms. The only reason he is listed as DE is because he was a 3-4 DE for Miami, but as you can see he is much too big to play end for us. This makes me even happier about the signing because when you look at his sack totals you see he can rush the passer, with 17 of them in 1999.

We will no longer draft Okoye if this is the case, but we will probably draft a young DT nonetheless somewhere in the first 4 rounds. This now leaves us with 2 options:

1. CJ
2a. Jamaal Anderson
2b. Gaines Adams

I would still like to trade down if CJ is not available, but I think it is less likely. The only chance we draft Okoye is if we trade down and those 2 guys are taken, but hopefully Landry would also have to be taken before we go for Okoye.

Beans
03-11-2007, 12:25 PM
Eh, I still think it's Amobi or CJ.

Bucs4242
03-11-2007, 03:12 PM
We wont draft 19 year old Amobi Okoye because we just signed a 30 something DE turned DT who averages 5 sacks per year to a non guaranteed contract? Yea, that makes sense

Ellis Wyms
Chris Hovan
Kevin Carter
Julian Jenkins

We need DT it is oobvious

Caddy
03-11-2007, 03:18 PM
The signing of Kevin Carter has little to no impact on whether we draft Amobi Okoye. Carter is 32 years old and will most likely get cut after 1, possibly 2 seasons in Tampa leaving the door wide open for Okoye, if he were to be our pick.

etk
03-11-2007, 04:48 PM
Julian Jenkins is a DE btw....

Anyways my point was that we now have a fine rotation at UT for the season with Carter and Wyms. Neither of them are the future but I believe that both will be solid and can get the job done this year. There is no question we MUST draft a DT this year, I just think this move allows us to take someone like Mebane, who maybe wouldn't be a starter this year but would be given time to develop under Carter and Wyms. He would get lots of playing time as well, providing depth as a rookie.

Some of you don't understand that it doesn't take a top 10 pick to get a good defensive player. We can address some of our needs later in the draft, and those players can and should be successful.

Booger
03-11-2007, 04:54 PM
Julian Jenkins is a DE btw....

Anyways my point was that we now have a fine rotation at UT for the season with Carter and Wyms. Neither of them are the future but I believe that both will be solid and can get the job done this year. There is no question we MUST draft a DT this year, I just think this move allows us to take someone like Mebane, who maybe wouldn't be a starter this year but would be given time to develop under Carter and Wyms. He would get lots of playing time as well, providing depth as a rookie.

Some of you don't understand that it doesn't take a top 10 pick to get a good defensive player. We can address some of our needs later in the draft, and those players can and should be successful.

Having a fine rotation at UT for the upcoming season is hardly a reason not to draft Okoye. Clearly Okoye would be a project, needing a couple of years before he could become an every down player.

I am not sure what position your last comment doesnt apply to. It doesnt take a top 10 pick to get a good player at any position. Although one could argue that there isnt a bigger need on this team than an UT.

You talk about needs that could be adequately addressed in later rounds, how about WR?

etk
03-11-2007, 04:57 PM
You don't want us to take CJ?

We can get future starters for us at DE & UT in Rounds 2-4. There is not a huge discrepancy between Adams/Anderson/Okoye and Harrell/Crowder/Johnson IMO. I don't think CJ & Johnnie Lee Higgins are exactly on the same platform.......

Booger
03-11-2007, 05:05 PM
You don't want us to take CJ?

We can get future starters for us at DE & UT in Rounds 2-4. There is not a huge discrepancy between Adams/Anderson/Okoye and Harrell/Crowder/Johnson IMO. I don't think CJ & Johnnie Lee Higgins are exactly on the same platform.......

I would be thrilled with CJ, but am starting to believe that he will be gone by the time that we pick.

While WR is not our biggest need, you are right, CJ would be too good to pass up on.

Caddy
03-11-2007, 10:22 PM
You don't want us to take CJ?

We can get future starters for us at DE & UT in Rounds 2-4. There is not a huge discrepancy between Adams/Anderson/Okoye and Harrell/Crowder/Johnson IMO. I don't think CJ & Johnnie Lee Higgins are exactly on the same platform.......

CJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Johnnie Lee Higgins

-black
03-12-2007, 02:02 PM
how someone can say DT is our biggest need puzzles me

C, DE, and S are more "right now" pressing needs at this point....maybe in a year or 2 DT will be our number 1 need. Wyms is good enough and Hovan is a great starter. Both S spots are horrible and we just lost D.White to FA

DT is not our biggest need, and it can be adressed in rounds 3 or 4

etk
03-12-2007, 02:04 PM
how someone can say DT is our biggest need puzzles me

C, DE, and S are more "right now" pressing needs at this point....maybe in a year or 2 DT will be our number 1 need. Wyms is good enough and Hovan is a great starter. Both S spots are horrible and we just lost D.White to FA

DT is not our biggest need, and it can be adressed in rounds 3 or 4

I love you, +++++++++++++++rep!!!! DT is an equal need to S though IMO.

Jeff82
03-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Having a fine rotation at UT for the upcoming season is hardly a reason not to draft Okoye. Clearly Okoye would be a project, needing a couple of years before he could become an every down player.

I am not sure what position your last comment doesnt apply to. It doesnt take a top 10 pick to get a good player at any position. Although one could argue that there isnt a bigger need on this team than an UT.

You talk about needs that could be adequately addressed in later rounds, how about WR?

WR is deep this year, but NONE of the other receivers compare to Calvin Johnson. He is a truly rare talent.

-black
03-12-2007, 02:16 PM
I love you, +++++++++++++++rep!!!! DT is an equal need to S though IMO.



I thought it was pretty obvious what our needs are come Draft time, but I guess not....

I think S and DE, and C need to be adressed in the first 3 rounds...im hoping Kalil in the 2nd....he will IMO complete our OL movement.

I think we can live with what we have and a rookie this year at DT. But I really think we need new starters at S

Caddy
03-12-2007, 03:28 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious what our needs are come Draft time, but I guess not....

I think S and DE, and C need to be adressed in the first 3 rounds...im hoping Kalil in the 2nd....he will IMO complete our OL movement.

I think we can live with what we have and a rookie this year at DT. But I really think we need new starters at S

If you honestly think Ellis Wyms can be a full time starter you have been slightly misinformed. Wyms is good, but he is not the dominant force at UT that we need in a Cover 2 style defense. We need a DT, however if it is not one of the elite DT's, we really cannot afford to waste picks on a mediocre one.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-12-2007, 04:03 PM
Gruden fell in love with Okoye at the Senior Bowl and we have a bunch of mediocre talent at DT. I still say we take Okoye. Saying that, if we trade down we're most likely having 3 2nd rounders, correct? We could theoretically put a nice package together and jump up to the 20-25 range and get an Adam Carriker, or a Brandon Meriweather.

etk
03-12-2007, 04:26 PM
We can probably get Meriweather in Round 1, don't believe Cowboys fans when they say their team will draft him.

-black
03-12-2007, 07:04 PM
If you honestly think Ellis Wyms can be a full time starter you have been slightly misinformed. Wyms is good, but he is not the dominant force at UT that we need in a Cover 2 style defense. We need a DT, however if it is not one of the elite DT's, we really cannot afford to waste picks on a mediocre one.

no....I havent

how could you have watched this team last year and feel that DT or even the UT posiition is our top priority? its beyond me. I'll rather take marcus Thomas or Brandon Mebane in the 3rd then take Okoye at 4 and pass on a DE.

We could use a DT, but its not pressing right NOW. Carter will be fine for this year along with Wyms. In the 2008 draft or Free Agency we could look for a young DT. That is if our 3rd round pick doesnt step up

-black
03-12-2007, 07:05 PM
with that said i'd rather take Landry at 4 then Okoye at 4....

Caddy
03-12-2007, 07:56 PM
no....I havent

how could you have watched this team last year and feel that DT or even the UT posiition is our top priority? its beyond me. I'll rather take marcus Thomas or Brandon Mebane in the 3rd then take Okoye at 4 and pass on a DE.

We could use a DT, but its not pressing right NOW. Carter will be fine for this year along with Wyms. In the 2008 draft or Free Agency we could look for a young DT. That is if our 3rd round pick doesnt step up

If you want to settle for mediocrity then keeping what we have is fine. The Cover 2 Defense thrives if it has a productive under tackle, which at the present time we do not have.

Booger
03-12-2007, 08:31 PM
If you want to settle for mediocrity then keeping what we have is fine. The Cover 2 Defense thrives if it has a productive under tackle, which at the present time we do not have.


I agree, an UT is the most pressing need on this entire team.


If you are so satisfied with Wyms and Carter playing DT, why wouldnt you be satisfied with them providing depth at both DE and DT?

In saying that, Im not sure that Okoye is worthy of the #4 overall pick, nor am I sure that he is better than Adams.

The player that I think would fit best at UT is Carriker, but it would take a trade down scenario to pick him up.

etk
03-12-2007, 08:57 PM
UT is our biggest need according to SN

Caddy
03-12-2007, 09:51 PM
I don't think it is our biggest need, but it easily one of our top needs along with defensive end, safety and center.

Watchman
03-12-2007, 11:28 PM
I think the safety position needs an upgrade, but I also think more production from the d-line will dramatically improve the play of the Bucs' safeties.

I still won't be shocked if they take Quinn (that's presuming JT and CJ are gone).

Bucs4242
03-13-2007, 12:51 AM
[QUOTE=etk;209984]

Anyways my point was that we now have a fine rotation at UT for the season with Carter and Wyms.QUOTE]



BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Caddy
03-13-2007, 01:07 AM
I think the safety position needs an upgrade, but I also think more production from the d-line will dramatically improve the play of the Bucs' safeties.



Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner

Its a fundamental of football really. Putting pressure on the QB, thanks to the defensive line, puts him under more pressure. Thus leading to his passes being less accurate allowing the safeties have more freedom in the secondary.

Caddy
03-13-2007, 01:08 AM
However in saying that. Allen and Phillips still need to be upgraded. Weddle/Merriweather could go a long way to doing that.

-black
03-13-2007, 05:17 AM
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner

Its a fundamental of football really. Putting pressure on the QB, thanks to the defensive line, puts him under more pressure. Thus leading to his passes being less accurate allowing the safeties have more freedom in the secondary.

pressure on the QB in the Cover 2 comes from passh rushers at the DE position. In 2005, we had the number 1 defense, and did not have a great UT

Caddy
03-13-2007, 06:41 AM
pressure on the QB in the Cover 2 comes from passh rushers at the DE position. In 2005, we had the number 1 defense, and did not have a great UT

In 2002 we won the superbowl with the best UT in the league at the time. You can bring up statistics to support almost any side of an argument.

"The central principle of the Cover 2 defense is to generate a pass rush from the front four to force the quarterback to throw the ball before he can wait for the intermediate and deep perimeter routes that are hot spots against the defense. It is a simple defense that requires top-level talent with speed and athletic ability to play it correctly."

Yes pass rush is important from the edges, but it is even more important coming from the inside.

-black
03-13-2007, 10:29 AM
In 2002 we won the superbowl with the best UT in the league at the time. You can bring up statistics to support almost any side of an argument.

"The central principle of the Cover 2 defense is to generate a pass rush from the front four to force the quarterback to throw the ball before he can wait for the intermediate and deep perimeter routes that are hot spots against the defense. It is a simple defense that requires top-level talent with speed and athletic ability to play it correctly."

Yes pass rush is important from the edges, but it is even more important coming from the inside.



and? he still did not generate a great pass rushing presence. 7.5 sacks was a nice year for a DT, but thats NOT where our primary pressure came from, or where its suppose to in our system. Wyms, Carter, and a 3rd or 4th round pick like Mebane or Thomas could be a good enough presence inside for this year and next. The 99/2000 form of Sapp was a luxery, not a requirement. The pressue from the Cover 2 REQUIRES a pass rushing DE, not one that generates a great deal of pressue from the inside, anything else is just an extra.

Watchman
03-13-2007, 02:56 PM
and? he still did not generate a great pass rushing presence. 7.5 sacks was a nice year for a DT, but thats NOT where our primary pressure came from, or where its suppose to in our system. Wyms, Carter, and a 3rd or 4th round pick like Mebane or Thomas could be a good enough presence inside for this year and next. The 99/2000 form of Sapp was a luxery, not a requirement. The pressue from the Cover 2 REQUIRES a pass rushing DE, not one that generates a great deal of pressue from the inside, anything else is just an extra.

I'm not disputing what you are saying, and I agree that pressure from the DE is the priority, but it seems like the cover 2 also requires the UT to provide pressure as well. The result being the QB having nowhere to go when the DE comes off the edge, because the UT is bringing pressure up the middle. It wasn't that the UT generates a lot of sacks, but the pressure up the middle is important. However, the UT generating pressure is meaningless without the DE generating consistent pressure off the edge. If I had to choose on area to generate pressure on the QB for the cover 2 it would be from the DE position.

I guess it all goes back to the cover 2 requiring consistent pressure on the QB from the front four.

Caddy
03-13-2007, 03:24 PM
The Cover 2 requires pressure from the front four. You cannot argue that it is more important from one position or anther. You are naturally going to get more sacks from a DE, but that can be largely due to the DT's collapsing the pocket and putting pressure on the QB.

etk
03-13-2007, 03:27 PM
The Cover 2 was a system that was developed with the intention of having 4 solid players in the front four. There should be no weak links and having a superstar is only a bonus.

Watchman
03-13-2007, 03:34 PM
I guess we're all on the same page then, or close to it.

-black
03-13-2007, 03:52 PM
and I have never once said DT does not matter. But I am saying for now, a good 3rd round like Mebane or Thomas, along with who we have now is more than good enough to play for this season and possibly next

my whole arguement is DT as of now is NOT one of our most pressing "right now" needs.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-13-2007, 04:00 PM
and I have never once said DT does not matter. But I am saying for now, a good 3rd round like Mebane or Thomas, along with who we have now is more than good enough to play for this season and possibly next

my whole arguement is DT as of now is NOT one of our most pressing "right now" needs.
I think if we're gonna look DL we can't pass up a guy like okoye. How many prospects do you know are Good Character Guys, A great talent, with great strength, decent size and STILL GROWING?

Caddy
03-13-2007, 06:03 PM
Either way you look at it, first rounders are always preferable to have on your D-Line. But having a dominant Cover 2 UT like Tommie Harris sure would be nice.

etk
03-13-2007, 06:18 PM
Either way you look at it, first rounders are always preferable to have on your D-Line. But having a dominant Cover 2 UT like Tommie Harris sure would be nice.

I prayed that we would draft him in 04 and he went one pick ahead of us. I'm not gonna lie I cried when we drafted Clayton, then he made me look like an idiot, and then he stopped trying. After Harris was gone I was hoping for Wilfork (didn't fit but I loved him) or Steven Jackson. Now that I look back, I know I was right when I cried.

Caddy
03-13-2007, 06:21 PM
Clayton may still come good....Hopefully

Watchman
03-13-2007, 06:27 PM
I prayed that we would draft him in 04 and he went one pick ahead of us.


I'm with ya on that one. So close to getting him, and I think things would have been a lot different for the Bucs had they drafted him. The one thing I was never sure of was if the Bears didn't take Harris right before the Bucs would the Bucs have drafted him? I'm not convinced they would have, but who knows.

etk
03-13-2007, 06:31 PM
We had a lot of players available to us who had fallen or had good value in the Mid 1st, like Wilfork, Jackson & DJ Williams. We reached on Clayton, and it turned out to be a good pick, but not really when you consider our other options and their success. I'm happy with Clayton though, because the next 2 WRs were Michael Jenkins and Rashaun Woods :D A lot of WR reaches that year, Reggie Williams!!

-black
03-13-2007, 07:26 PM
. How many prospects do you know are Good Character Guys, A great talent, with great strength, decent size and STILL GROWING?


Calvin Johnson :))))

and I may not be in the majority, but i'd rather have Landry over Okoye if we dont go Adams or CJ

-black
03-13-2007, 07:26 PM
in the 04 draft I wanted Vilma really bad......

etk
03-13-2007, 07:46 PM
in the 04 draft I wanted Vilma really bad......

I thought up a million scenarios for him to fall to us in my mock's back then. Same with Tommie Harris and it almost happened.

Tampa 2 4 life
03-13-2007, 09:20 PM
Calvin Johnson :))))

and I may not be in the majority, but i'd rather have Landry over Okoye if we dont go Adams or CJ

Since when Is Calvin Johnson a Defensive Lineman?

Watchman
03-13-2007, 09:21 PM
Rashaun Woods


Ouch, I forgot about him. 49ers took him right? That was worse than the Jags taking RJ Soward in round 1.

etk
03-13-2007, 09:36 PM
Since when Is Calvin Johnson a Defensive Lineman?

I think Calvin Johnson is a better DE prospect than Gaines Adams :D

Caddy
03-14-2007, 12:31 AM
I think Calvin Johnson is a better DE prospect than Gaines Adams :D

Pack on 20lbs and you have one athletic DE

Watchman
03-14-2007, 01:46 AM
Pack on 20lbs and you have one athletic DE

Think he'd lose a little off his 40 time?

Caddy
03-14-2007, 01:48 AM
Think he'd lose a little off his 40 time?

Naturally, we're only joking anyway.... Or are we?

-black
03-14-2007, 05:19 AM
Since when Is Calvin Johnson a Defensive Lineman?

go back to your post

since when does a prospect mean a defensive lineman?



How many prospects do you know are Good Character Guys, A great talent, with great strength, decent size and STILL GROWING?

TheChampIsHere
03-14-2007, 05:34 AM
You guys had Sapp and McFarland in addition to Simeon Rice....Sapp and McFarland brought all kind of heat up the middle and now both are gone. A big reason why your D has gone so far down? Both are gone and of course Rice was hurt last year as well. The Bucs need to improve their front 4 as a whole and bring in young talent. I dont know if the Bucs will get Okoye or not b/c that depends on some things, but he would certainly be a great fit for the Bucs and Im sure Gruden would love to have him on board. Im starting to doubt they'll pick him at 4 though, it might just be too high for him.

Caddy
03-14-2007, 06:54 AM
You guys had Sapp and McFarland in addition to Simeon Rice....Sapp and McFarland brought all kind of heat up the middle and now both are gone. A big reason why your D has gone so far down? Both are gone and of course Rice was hurt last year as well. The Bucs need to improve their front 4 as a whole and bring in young talent. I dont know if the Bucs will get Okoye or not b/c that depends on some things, but he would certainly be a great fit for the Bucs and Im sure Gruden would love to have him on board. Im starting to doubt they'll pick him at 4 though, it might just be too high for him.

Yeh that is pretty much what I was saying

ks_perfection
03-14-2007, 09:21 AM
If the bucs wanted to go for him they could afford to trade down alot of slots and still get him.

Watchman
03-14-2007, 11:18 AM
Naturally, we're only joking anyway.... Or are we?

As was I, or was I.