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D-Unit
12-02-2009, 04:27 PM
We're gonna need to have a complete game to beat the NY Gargantuans.

Macarthur
12-02-2009, 04:32 PM
Certainly, anything can happen, but I just think if we don't turn the ball over multiple times, we win this going away.

The Giants have real issues that just can't be fixed in a week. Remember that as bad as the Cowboys were the 2nd week, the Giants offense scored 9 points if you take out the short field they got on turnovers.

If we protect the ball, I think this one looks a lot like the game last year at home. 24-13 or something like that.

D-Unit
12-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Kind of sounds like you're not giving the Giants enough credit for taking the ball out of our hands. But I get your drift. We need to be very mindful of holding onto the ball and I agree. We can't compare this game to the last game at all though. Both teams are very different. I think we win, but can't afford to play the way we played against the Redskins.

Macarthur
12-02-2009, 05:03 PM
Well, the 3 that come to mind are:

1. Fumble by Felix on kickoff - Don't remember the particulars but you could give the Giants credit for 'forcing' that one.

2. INT that bounces off Witten's leg. Sorry, not giving them credit for that freak play.

3. Possibly Romo's worst decision of the season on the deep ball to Hurd. We just haven't seen that Romo since that game.

Take out those two turnovers and it's a very different game.

I agree 100% that both teams are in very different places. The Giants defesense and offense are struggling much more than they were early in the season. The Cowboys offense has had a couple of hickups (Wash & GB) but in general they are not turning the ball over and the defense is playing much much better than they were early in the year.

Am I confident? Yes, I think we should take this game.

But you're right that anything can happen up there is Jersey and if they don't play disciplined, the Giants could very well steal one.

D-Unit
12-02-2009, 06:42 PM
I'm semi-confident in a win. This would be the beginning of proving they are going to make this December different from year's past.

leroyisgod
12-02-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm not gonna lie, this game more than any of the remaining games scares me most. I've said it in several other posts...desperate teams scare me. And Gmen are one of them most desperate teams at this point.

With that being said, I believe we should win the game. But we all know the games aren't played on paper, but on the field.

Ward
12-03-2009, 01:06 AM
I'm not scared of their running game, but if Eli at his best shows up, we could be in trouble. The way our offense had stalled before the Oakland game scares the crap out of me. We can't beat N.Y. on a single last effort TD if Eli is throwing bombs all day. I hope Dallas tries to run all over this team and control the clock and exploit the fact that Pierce is out.

Giantsfan1080
12-03-2009, 09:08 AM
I'm not scared of their running game, but if Eli at his best shows up, we could be in trouble. The way our offense had stalled before the Oakland game scares the crap out of me. We can't beat N.Y. on a single last effort TD if Eli is throwing bombs all day. I hope Dallas tries to run all over this team and control the clock and exploit the fact that Pierce is out.

Looks like we're only going into the game with Jacobs and G. Johnson. I have no faith in our running game either. You guys are being very generous and I really think you should have this one in the bag. I see a slim chance we can win but it would suprise me. Just get some good pressure on Eli and you should be fine.

MetSox17
12-03-2009, 09:50 AM
D-Ware isn't practicing cause of a concussion. I haven't kept up with that injury much, anyone care to fill me in?

E-Man
12-03-2009, 10:35 AM
I've been thinking for weeks that this game would be a beatdown for the Cowboys. I'm not so sure that it will be a blowout, but I think the Cowboys get some nice revenge. I think they've got a chip on their shoulder because of how the first game went down, and I don't think they'll play around. The defense now is number two in the league in terms of points allowed, and they play a helluva lot more different than they did the first two weeks of the season. These guys are seriously becoming a big force. The D is really putting in some good work.

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
I know its a divisional game so anything can happen, but seriously, you guys should mop the floor with us.

Michael Johnson is most likely out, making our starting 2 safeties Aaron Rouse and CC Brown.

Bradshaw and Ware are out.

Our oline is a shell of its former self.

Our DTs suck, and our DEs are injured, and theyve been sucking too.

Our MIKE and SAM are serious issues.

I counter your Jason Garrett with Kevin Kill Drive and Bill Sheridan.



The only way we have any chance of winning this game is if Eli carries us. Thats really the only time we've been winning all season outside of a couple of cupcake teams.

E-Man
12-03-2009, 10:52 AM
You are right BBD about it being a divisional game. Those things can't be taken for granted like the Redskins game. I think the injuries and revenge factor will be the key to this game.

M.O.T.H.
12-03-2009, 11:00 AM
D-Ware isn't practicing cause of a concussion. I haven't kept up with that injury much, anyone care to fill me in?

That'd be Danny Ware, the Giants RB. Demarcus is fine.

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 11:00 AM
I just hope you guys don't land Eli on IR.

He has a stress reaction he's been playing with on his foot since Tampa (the Giants have been hiding it), and one big sack can lead to a stress fracture.

All you really have to do is blitz the hell out of him. He's been playing on one foot. And Dallas has always done an excellent job of getting pressure on us.

I doubt our WR core has a similar game to last time.

Macarthur
12-03-2009, 11:15 AM
I doubt our WR core has a similar game to last time.

I think this will be one of the big keys to the game. The first time we played, our secondary was very much in a transition phase.

Since then, Jenkins has become one of the top young corners in the league and Sensy has been really solid. I just think we are much better in coverage than we were early in the year.

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 11:20 AM
I think this will be one of the big keys to the game. The first time we played, our secondary was very much in a transition phase.

Since then, Jenkins has become one of the top young corners in the league and Sensy has been really solid. I just think we are much better in coverage than we were early in the year.

yeah, you guys have definitely patched up your secondary.

Id like for us to get Kevin Boss involved in this game, bc i think he can exploit your coverages a little, but we don't really use the TE. so its a moot point.

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 11:25 AM
You are right BBD about it being a divisional game. Those things can't be taken for granted like the Redskins game. I think the injuries and revenge factor will be the key to this game.

you guys more than ever should be able to run on our front. all you really have to do is pound us into submission.

im serious when i say that the Redskins have been far more impressive the past 3 weeks than the Giants have.

Macarthur
12-03-2009, 11:35 AM
BBD, one thing I found interesting is that Michael Lombardi was on the radio here in Dallas this week and he talked about how slow and unathletic the Giants front 7 has become. Seems strange to think that front 7 would be in that shape but injuries have really taken a toll.

Also, bloggingtheboys.com had an interesting point on this December issue. Sure, the boys have struggled. IT's well documented. However, I think far too much is made of it, especially when you go back more than 2 or 3 years. But here's an interesting comparison they made with the Giants:

Cowboys Giants
2006 2-3 2-3
2007 2-2 3-2
2008 1-3 1-3

Of course, no one talks about the Giants struggling in December. :)

Sniper
12-03-2009, 11:36 AM
Of course, no one talks about the Giants struggling in December. :)

A Super Bowl win tends to skewer things.

Dallas wins big. I'll say 31-13.

Macarthur
12-03-2009, 11:55 AM
NO doubt that Giants got hot at the right time. That's why I think there been too much made of the December thing.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-03-2009, 12:17 PM
Our team has issues. I would love for us to fire dumb and dumber, especially the "dumber" part of the equation. I like Coughlin, but enough with the first year coordinators. We hit with Spags because we went after a guy who coached the secondary & LBs in an aggressive system, but overall I am not a fan of giving first year coaches a shot especially if you play in a big market.

Oh, and you guys will win big!

Macarthur
12-03-2009, 12:56 PM
Some interesting stuff from Bob Sturm's blog:

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/

OK. I have written all of that. I don't want what I am about to write change what what lies above the line. But, in researching these numbers, I couldn't help but notice this: Eli Manning's 1 hot month in Jan 2008 erases worse issues about finishing the season. I said once upon a time, "They have Eli, we have Romo - give me Romo", and I stand behind it. But, the ring is the thing. Eli has one, Tony does not. Eli has a lifetime exemption when it comes to scoreboard, Tony does not.

Take a look.

Win-Loss Record by Month between Romo and Eli:

Win-Loss Romo Manning
Sept 9-2 11-5
Oct 6-3 16-4
Nov 15-2 10-12
Dec 5-8 11-13

HTML Tables



Not one bad month for Eli, but two. And let's remember that the Giants are 9-8 in the post-Plaxico era (9-9 if we count the home playoff loss to Philadelphia).

QB Rating by Month:

QB Rating Romo Manning
Sept 100.3 91.0
Oct 93.0 81.8
Nov 111.0 73.2
Dec 71.9 68.6

HTML Tables



Yes, even in Romo's train wreck December, he is still exceeding Eli.

TD/INT Ratio by Month:

TD/INT Ratio Romo Manning
Sept +13 +15
Oct +8 +14
Nov +29 E
Dec -5 +1

Really, there's only one measurable that you can concievably say that Eli is a better QB than Romo - that Jan 08 run.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-03-2009, 01:27 PM
Some interesting stuff from Bob Sturm's blog:

http://sturminator.blogspot.com/

OK. I have written all of that. I don't want what I am about to write change what what lies above the line. But, in researching these numbers, I couldn't help but notice this: Eli Manning's 1 hot month in Jan 2008 erases worse issues about finishing the season. I said once upon a time, "They have Eli, we have Romo - give me Romo", and I stand behind it. But, the ring is the thing. Eli has one, Tony does not. Eli has a lifetime exemption when it comes to scoreboard, Tony does not.

Take a look.

Win-Loss Record by Month between Romo and Eli:

Win-Loss Romo Manning
Sept 9-2 11-5
Oct 6-3 16-4
Nov 15-2 10-12
Dec 5-8 11-13

HTML Tables



Not one bad month for Eli, but two. And let's remember that the Giants are 9-8 in the post-Plaxico era (9-9 if we count the home playoff loss to Philadelphia).

QB Rating by Month:

QB Rating Romo Manning
Sept 100.3 91.0
Oct 93.0 81.8
Nov 111.0 73.2
Dec 71.9 68.6

HTML Tables



Yes, even in Romo's train wreck December, he is still exceeding Eli.

TD/INT Ratio by Month:

TD/INT Ratio Romo Manning
Sept +13 +15
Oct +8 +14
Nov +29 E
Dec -5 +1

Really, there's only one measurable that you can concievably say that Eli is a better QB than Romo - that Jan 08 run.

Stats like that mean nothing.. And that's if it was pro Eli or Anti Eli. Stats in general are overused. Those stats don't take into consideration both schemes and the plus and minuses of those schemes that each QB plays in. From day 1, we managed to screw up Eli's development. Hell in our team, on both sides, of the ball it's musical coordinators and coaches. Coughlin has stayed the same but those under him have moved. Just watch the games, and take into account the system each player plays in, and make an evaluation there. I'd take Eli any day, but I'd take you're system any day. Hell, give us Garrett over Kildrive! Now Gilbride has done some good things, but from day 1 we messed up the coaches under Coughlin.

Macarthur
12-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Well, I would agree that stats alone can be misleading.

But the ultimate stat is W's. And frankly, if you take out the one January that Eli got hot (with the help of a hellacious pass rush), Romo is more of a winner than Eli.

Granted, you can't just 'take out' that Jan. It counts, big time. I'm not necessarily knocking Eli as much as I'm saying that Romo has gotten way too much blame for the Cowboy failures.

herniateddisc
12-03-2009, 03:58 PM
They play spirited but their D really sucks right now and THIS TIME we don't let them off the hook...

Cowboys 35
Giants 24

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 04:15 PM
BBD, one thing I found interesting is that Michael Lombardi was on the radio here in Dallas this week and he talked about how slow and unathletic the Giants front 7 has become. Seems strange to think that front 7 would be in that shape but injuries have really taken a toll.

Also, bloggingtheboys.com had an interesting point on this December issue. Sure, the boys have struggled. IT's well documented. However, I think far too much is made of it, especially when you go back more than 2 or 3 years. But here's an interesting comparison they made with the Giants:

Cowboys Giants
2006 2-3 2-3
2007 2-2 3-2
2008 1-3 1-3

Of course, no one talks about the Giants struggling in December. :)

Lombardi is correct. Our front 7 is slow.

Outside of Michael Boley, nobody is playing fast in the front 7. Osi is hampered, Tuck is hampered, our DTs suck, and the one guy who is good is still not fully there (Canty), Our MIKE's are all slow, our SAM position is slow (we haven't started Sintim yet).

So our edge speed is lacking on the line, and 2 of our LBs are very slow.

But speed isn't really the issue to me. Its strength. The lack of strength in our DT duo and MIKE/SAM is the problem.

Starting Sintim would fix our SAM position. He is already lightyears better than Clark but Coughlin just hates playing rookies. And with AP out and communication being a serious issue this year on defense, he's even more hesitant to start a rookie.

The Giants have never been a great December team either. The Eagles are the best December team in the East.

D-Unit
12-03-2009, 04:44 PM
Given how down the Giants fans are on their own team, it will be mighty embarrasing to lose to them.

Man, they really know how to set themselves up to feel good. Lose and they expected it. Win and not only are they happy as hell, but they get to bash us all the more. LOL. If Dallas wins, Dallas fans can't get too happy about it. But if we lose, Oh boy... we'll have mud on our faces. How do you like that? :/

At least Redskins fans think they'll win even though they really are crap. haha. You can feel good about beating them because they thought they were gonna win. LOL. So funny.

Philly fans are just arrogant... win or lose. They think that they will win all the time. If they lose, well they should've won if not for blah blah blah. Blame the refs. Blame the coach. Blame injuries. Blame the sun for shining. Their players are the best!

bigbluedefense
12-03-2009, 05:03 PM
I think even if you lose, we have nothing to say honestly.

Its not like we'll become 1st in the division with a win. All it means is that we live to fight another week.

Now if we won in the playoffs, then sure. Thats when it counts.


Its the reason why we had bragging rights over Dallas 2 years ago. Its why Philly had bragging rights over us last year.

Rubbing in a regular season win when youre chasing a team makes no sense.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-03-2009, 06:17 PM
Well, I would agree that stats alone can be misleading.

But the ultimate stat is W's. And frankly, if you take out the one January that Eli got hot (with the help of a hellacious pass rush), Romo is more of a winner than Eli.

Granted, you can't just 'take out' that Jan. It counts, big time. I'm not necessarily knocking Eli as much as I'm saying that Romo has gotten way too much blame for the Cowboy failures.

Maybe, but I am not happy with the way we developed Eli. Romo sat and got the playbook and system down for couple years. Eli had probably the worst coordinator ever and now is out of the NFL, in the Canadian league, lol. Gilbride isn't that much better. He has done some good things, and Eli has played and gotten better under him, but still, we could do better. Now, it's going to be hard to win with our defense, which by the way has it's 3rd DC in 5 years. If Sheridan keeps this up, we may have # 4!

So football is a team game, and both Qbs have good qualities and bad ones, I am more frustrated with how we developed him. He was off to a sick season, but now this injury is screwing things up. People said our WRs this year would be the biggest concern, right now that's the farthest thing wrong with this team now.

LonghornsLegend
12-03-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm worried about this game for some reason, you might as well throw out all the stats, or how bad they are playing, same goes for Washington. If you guys don't think the Giants will be amped up to play us at home your fooling yourself, sometimes that's not enough to win but I just can't see us cruising to a win.


It'll be a dog fight and be close in the 4th then maybe we pull away, but with how desperate they are I can easily see them taking this game in a close one, no matter how many injuries they have. I don't trust Garrett yet to scheme up a winning gameplan.

D-Unit
12-03-2009, 07:17 PM
I'm worried about this game for some reason, you might as well throw out all the stats, or how bad they are playing, same goes for Washington. If you guys don't think the Giants will be amped up to play us at home your fooling yourself, sometimes that's not enough to win but I just can't see us cruising to a win.


It'll be a dog fight and be close in the 4th then maybe we pull away, but with how desperate they are I can easily see them taking this game in a close one, no matter how many injuries they have. I don't trust Garrett yet to scheme up a winning gameplan.
Quoted for truth right there. Garrett will be the demise to the Cowboys. Cowboys may get to the playoffs... but please... they'll fail once again. I just hope they at least win a game.

Jughead10
12-03-2009, 07:49 PM
BBD, one thing I found interesting is that Michael Lombardi was on the radio here in Dallas this week and he talked about how slow and unathletic the Giants front 7 has become. Seems strange to think that front 7 would be in that shape but injuries have really taken a toll.

Also, bloggingtheboys.com had an interesting point on this December issue. Sure, the boys have struggled. IT's well documented. However, I think far too much is made of it, especially when you go back more than 2 or 3 years. But here's an interesting comparison they made with the Giants:

Cowboys Giants
2006 2-3 2-3
2007 2-2 3-2
2008 1-3 1-3

Of course, no one talks about the Giants struggling in December. :)

Part of our December struggles have been weather related. I'd say almost all of them have been. Where as yours have been more of just dissapearing in general. Also last year we really didn't have to play in December after an 11-1 start. We still locked up the number one seed.

That being said. We lose on Sunday.

Giantsfan1080
12-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Part of our December struggles have been weather related. I'd say almost all of them have been. Where as yours have been more of just dissapearing in general. Also last year we really didn't have to play in December after an 11-1 start. We still locked up the number one seed.

That being said. We lose on Sunday.

I won't do it ever again for Curb purposes.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 07:35 AM
Quoted for truth right there. Garrett will be the demise to the Cowboys. Cowboys may get to the playoffs... but please... they'll fail once again. I just hope they at least win a game.

I'll take JG any day! In fact we can take him off your hands and you can take our boy Kil.. err.. Gilbride.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 09:50 AM
I think JG has had some problems and has had a learning curve, but overall, I think the criticism has been too much.

He has made some mistakes; no doubt.

But his offenses put up yardage. That's really all you can do is ask your OC to put the players in position to pick up yardage. Then it comes down to execution. It's up to the players to execute. I think JG, for the most part, has called the same plays in wins and losses. The difference is when the guys execute, it works. When they don't execute, he's an idiot.

I mean if RW doesn't make the two horrible plays in GB that took points off the board and Dallas has a good chance to win that game, how is that a negative reflection on JG?

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 10:22 AM
I mean if RW doesn't make the two horrible plays in GB that took points off the board and Dallas has a good chance to win that game, how is that a negative reflection on JG?

The amount of times we ran the ball that game was unexcusable, especially considering it was mostly a 1 score game, and Barber started the game really well. You can't ignore that fact, if he thinks that everytime were down 3 or 7 points we have to spread it out and pass all game it'll ruin us eventually. The defense pins it's ears back and comes after us, it makes us more predictable, and more prone for more mistakes.


Yes the yardage is there but we pass so much it's not surprising especially with our weapons. Things like that are why I don't trust him, it made no sense to start airing it out the way we did, I think Thule said it best, he has a set gameplan and he doesn't really make adjustments mid game. We'll try to pass our way back to where he wants to be then pick back up the gameplan.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 10:24 AM
I think JG has had some problems and has had a learning curve, but overall, I think the criticism has been too much.

He has made some mistakes; no doubt.

But his offenses put up yardage. That's really all you can do is ask your OC to put the players in position to pick up yardage. Then it comes down to execution. It's up to the players to execute. I think JG, for the most part, has called the same plays in wins and losses. The difference is when the guys execute, it works. When they don't execute, he's an idiot.

I mean if RW doesn't make the two horrible plays in GB that took points off the board and Dallas has a good chance to win that game, how is that a negative reflection on JG?
When there are a lot of better options out there why do we have to put up with him? He doesn't get the most out of this offense. Sure, you feel good coming off the Oakland win. That's the thing... every time we play a bad team and do good, back come the Garrett supporters. It's frustrating. He's proven time and time again that he is inadequate. Why do we have to live through his development and growing pains? How bout we bring him back 10 years from now? We're a power running team, but we don't run. He's terrible at making in game adjustments. His game calling is predictable. He's a joke.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 11:20 AM
I think JG has had some problems and has had a learning curve, but overall, I think the criticism has been too much.

He has made some mistakes; no doubt.

But his offenses put up yardage. That's really all you can do is ask your OC to put the players in position to pick up yardage. Then it comes down to execution. It's up to the players to execute. I think JG, for the most part, has called the same plays in wins and losses. The difference is when the guys execute, it works. When they don't execute, he's an idiot.

I mean if RW doesn't make the two horrible plays in GB that took points off the board and Dallas has a good chance to win that game, how is that a negative reflection on JG?


I agree! You guys like Romo and what he brings to the table, and the same time you throw JG under the bus? How does that work? JG is a good innovative coordinator. Doesn't mean he is perfect but he could be in a worse system. Put him in a running system like we had in prior years and his # s won't be as good as they are now in your passing system.

I've seen some of the plays first hand that JG creates and a lot of them are damn good.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 11:35 AM
I agree! You guys like Romo and what he brings to the table, and the same time you throw JG under the bus? How does that work? JG is a good innovative coordinator. Doesn't mean he is perfect but he could be in a worse system. Put him in a running system like we had in prior years and his # s won't be as good as they are now in your passing system.

I've seen some of the plays first hand that JG creates and a lot of them are damn good.
Ginger steals plays, tinkers with it a little bit and then wants to call them his own. Then he makes our team try them out to see if they work. Bad execution is then blamed on the players. Gee wiz.

If being a good OC was just making up plays that would be one thing. But Ginger fails in coaching...and everything that that word encompasses. Teaching, developing, putting guys in position to succeed, making the best use out of your team's strengths, ability to make adjustments, calling the right plays at the right time, getting respect (from players and foes), motivating, leading... he just plain sucks in all of that.

Like I said... I think he'll be a great OC one day, but I'm not ready to let the Cowboys be the guinea pigs for his own development as an OC. I fear the day that he becomes the HC. It makes me cringe.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 11:47 AM
Ginger steals plays, tinkers with it a little bit and then wants to call them his own. Then he makes our team try them out to see if they work. Bad execution is then blamed on the players. Gee wiz.

If being a good OC was just making up plays that would be one thing. But Ginger fails in coaching...and everything that that word encompasses. Teaching, developing, putting guys in position to succeed, making the best use out of your team's strengths, ability to make adjustments, calling the right plays at the right time, getting respect (from players and foes), motivating, leading... he just plain sucks in all of that.

Like I said... I think he'll be a great OC one day, but I'm not ready to let the Cowboys be the guinea pigs for his own development as an OC. I fear the day that he becomes the HC. It makes me cringe.

Every coach takes plays from other coaches, his past or what not. That's part of the industry, it happens. Hell, when i coached this him and others this summer, I got a booklet of plays, and if I coach college or decide i want to coach HS, I am going to use those plays. That's part of the industry. Plays are not copyrighted by any means.

If the play isn't executed correctly, who do you want to blamed? Him? Should he put the uniform on and show them? That makes no sense in my opinion. He designs, borrows, steals, the play and implements it. Then it's up to the players to follow through and execute it.

As an OC you're more of a management role of that side of the ball. Yeah you can go over stuff with the players, but the stuff you are going on about falls on the position coaches. That's why they are part of the staff and that's why they get paid. If he sucked at those attributes you mentioned, you would not be 8-3. I am not saying he is perfect, not then again no coach is. His system works, and basically is a good fit for Romo. Miles has developed very well under this system now too.

I actually can't wait until he becomes HC. In fact I am counting on it if I want to get my foot into this industry.

M.O.T.H.
12-04-2009, 12:02 PM
Garrett has been horrible again this year...B+M=Banning, I know you have a little bit of a biased opinion on him, nothing wrong with that at all. But we've all seen it first hand, over and over again. If someone takes him off our hands this off-season, the vast majority of us will be a lot happier. It's not just us, Garrett bashing is done league wide. I really wish Reeves would have come on board, to basically "baby sit" him because, Garrett is still in need of some tutelage.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 12:14 PM
Garrett has been horrible again this year...B+M=Banning, I know you have a little bit of a biased opinion on him, nothing wrong with that at all. But we've all seen it first hand, over and over again. If someone takes him off our hands this off-season, the vast majority of us will be a lot happier. It's not just us, Garrett bashing is done league wide. I really wish Reeves would have come on board, to basically "baby sit" him because, Garrett is still in need of some tutelage.

True, very true, but I also know the inner works of this industry. And I know fans are prone to big time over estimations of coach's duties and responsibilties. This goes for all football fans at all levels. Same stuff I tell our fans as well.

But all I am saying he isn't nearly as bad as you guys are making him out to be. You have players thriving in his system and now that system AND the coaches are developing Miles, who very well could turn into a stud. I know Bennett as well is progressing overall.

I would take JG any day of Gilbride and our previous fool Hufangel! Perhaps you guys should have Gilbride for a year and then see how much you miss JG AND to realize that ALL coaches at ALL levels have good things going for them and flaws which need work. My point is you guys aren't nearly in bad shape as you guys claim. Christ take our situation in our division. Take Gilbride or in the past Hufangel. Maybe Andy Reid throwing 128321938921389121319 a game. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. But saying JG is not a good coach is alittle extreme in my opinion.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 12:14 PM
When there are a lot of better options out there why do we have to put up with him? He doesn't get the most out of this offense. Sure, you feel good coming off the Oakland win. That's the thing... every time we play a bad team and do good, back come the Garrett supporters. It's frustrating. He's proven time and time again that he is inadequate. Why do we have to live through his development and growing pains? How bout we bring him back 10 years from now? We're a power running team, but we don't run. He's terrible at making in game adjustments. His game calling is predictable. He's a joke.

What better options?

I was critical of him because of the GB game, but you can't expect everyone to have a good game all the time. I think he wishes he could have some of that back. I think the GB game is a very cheap second guess because they only ran something like 9 plays in the whole 3rd quarter. Sometimes the opposing DC has a good day, too. :)

I completely disagree that he 'has proven time and again that he is inadequate'.

And we are not a power running team. Just because we have a big OL and one big RB does not mean we are a power running team. I posted the numbers from an article on bloggingtheboys.com from earlier in the year and it proves that this team does not run 'power' running plays well. The stats don't lie.

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2009/9/30/1062230/cowboys-tape-review-this-is-not

This is a counter and draw running game, not an iso/off tackle running game.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 12:31 PM
And let me add, the one thing I have been highly critical of JG is too much shot gun. But if you look around the league, he's not the only one doing this.

I read somewhere that the Cowboys average something rediculous like 8 yards a play when Romo is under center!!! It seems like if we have anything with 2nd and 7 or more and anything on 3rd, is automatically shotgun. Now that I think is crazy.

But again, this appears to be a league issue.

M.O.T.H.
12-04-2009, 12:40 PM
Saying you'd take him over Gilbride isnt exactly a glowing endorsement. haha. Garrett legitimately hurts our team throughout games. His red zone and goal line play calling is horrendous. 1st and goal on the one yard line. Let's pass three times in a row, despite having Marion Barber back there. Oh and while we're passing, lets not even have both TEs go out. We should be a fantastic red zone team and goal line team and yet, we're not. Barber and the TEs are secondary for whatever reason. He tries to get way too cute and his pass first mentality makes him awfully predictable. He really does become obsessed with the passing game.

He's even admitted to forgetting about Felix Jones in games. He doesnt know how to use the talent he has. We have three backs who all average 5 yards per carry but, the passing game will always be numero uno, despite match up. There is no reason why Dallas shouldnt be one of the best running teams in the nfl. NFL match up also had a nice little piece on Garrett's failure to adjust his play calling to the blitz as well. Romo is the most heavily blitzed QB in the league. He is getting hit more than ever and there is always a man free coming right at him and this is almost a constant. And forget about any mass protections...we have to have 4 guys going out all times running deep routes. And Garrett never holds himself accountable for anything. He's normally no where to be found after one of his head scratcher play calling days. As has been noted by the Dallas Morning News. Garrett def. has some good ideas but, we can do a helluva lot better, I def. feel we put up good yardage despite having Garrett...he has cost us many a game before and he will again. It's hard to trust him.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 12:56 PM
I have been critical of him throwing a little too much at times and he clearly did make a mistake on that goal line scenario. But again, almost every team in the league is having this same discussion.

You still can't ignore the fact that this team moves the ball really well on the whole.

We have three backs who all average 5 yards per carry but, the passing game will always be numero uno, despite match up. There is no reason why Dallas shouldnt be one of the best running teams in the nfl.

They are! We are #6 in the league in rushing.

thule
12-04-2009, 01:02 PM
Just to jump in on this conversation. Another stat that is killer and points right at the OC is.

The Cowboys are among four NFL teams that have not scored a touchdown on their first possessions this season. Cleveland, Kansas City and San Francisco -- a combined 9-24 -- are the other slow-starting teams.

For the season, Kansas City and the Cowboys are tied for the fewest points on the first possessions. In 11 games, each teams' opening drive has resulted in a total of three points. New Orleans leads the league with 41 points in its 11 first possessions.

The Cowboys got their opening-possession points in the season opener at Tampa Bay. In 10 games since then, the Cowboys opening possessions have ended with eight punts and two missed field goals.

I'm sorry but you can usually script a first drive. No excuse to not have a single TD. We are in the same league as teams where we have 5x as much talent on the offensive side of the ball. JG is young and head strong. He could use humbling.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:03 PM
I feel like this team moves the ball on offense despite Garrett. I feel like he is handcuffing the talent and not utilizing them best. Stats paint pictures of the past. Not of what could've been.

thule
12-04-2009, 01:05 PM
I have been critical of him throwing a little too much at times and he clearly did make a mistake on that goal line scenario. But again, almost every team in the league is having this same discussion.

You still can't ignore the fact that this team moves the ball really well on the whole.



They are! We are #6 in the league in rushing.

Yet we are 19th in attemts!

Your stat about not being a power rushing team I think holds little weight. We are first in the league in 1st down % rushing...

M.O.T.H.
12-04-2009, 01:05 PM
Yes, but guess what? We're 20th in rushing attempts. Common sense, if the running game is working, you stick with it. Garrett abandons it the first chance he gets. I've said before, the actual plays themselves arent the problem, most of the time. Garrett is freaking pass happy and a beyond awful play caller in red zone and especially, goal line situations. It doesnt take a genius...he's too smart for his own good, he tries to get too cute all the time.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:09 PM
I have been critical of him throwing a little too much at times and he clearly did make a mistake on that goal line scenario. But again, almost every team in the league is having this same discussion.

You still can't ignore the fact that this team moves the ball really well on the whole.

They are! We are #6 in the league in rushing.
At times... That goaline... c'mon now. Ginger panics too much and passes when he panics. ...and it's waaaaay more than one goalline mistake that he has committed in the past. Every team's faults shouldn't justify his.

This team moves the ball well...? Did you see the Green Bay and Washington games?

Ginger will fail us in the playoffs.

M.O.T.H.
12-04-2009, 01:13 PM
Oh and how about his going into shot gun on every other 3rd and 1 now? What the hell is that? You have Barber, just give him the ball out of the I.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:13 PM
Saying you'd take him over Gilbride isnt exactly a glowing endorsement. haha. Garrett legitimately hurts our team throughout games. His red zone and goal line play calling is horrendous. 1st and goal on the one yard line. Let's pass three times in a row, despite having Marion Barber back there. Oh and while we're passing, lets not even have both TEs go out. We should be a fantastic red zone team and goal line team and yet, we're not. Barber and the TEs are secondary for whatever reason. He tries to get way too cute and his pass first mentality makes him awfully predictable. He really does become obsessed with the passing game.

He's even admitted to forgetting about Felix Jones in games. He doesnt know how to use the talent he has. We have three backs who all average 5 yards per carry but, the passing game will always be numero uno, despite match up. There is no reason why Dallas shouldnt be one of the best running teams in the nfl. NFL match up also had a nice little piece on Garrett's failure to adjust his play calling to the blitz as well. Romo is the most heavily blitzed QB in the league. He is getting hit more than ever and there is always a man free coming right at him and this is almost a constant. And forget about any mass protections...we have to have 4 guys going out all times running deep routes. And Garrett never holds himself accountable for anything. He's normally no where to be found after one of his head scratcher play calling days. As has been noted by the Dallas Morning News. Garrett def. has some good ideas but, we can do a helluva lot better, I def. feel we put up good yardage despite having Garrett...he has cost us many a game before and he will again. It's hard to trust him.
That is a great point. He never steps up and takes accountablility.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Saying you'd take him over Gilbride isnt exactly a glowing endorsement. haha. Garrett legitimately hurts our team throughout games. His red zone and goal line play calling is horrendous. 1st and goal on the one yard line. Let's pass three times in a row, despite having Marion Barber back there. Oh and while we're passing, lets not even have both TEs go out. We should be a fantastic red zone team and goal line team and yet, we're not. Barber and the TEs are secondary for whatever reason. He tries to get way too cute and his pass first mentality makes him awfully predictable. He really does become obsessed with the passing game.

He's even admitted to forgetting about Felix Jones in games. He doesnt know how to use the talent he has. We have three backs who all average 5 yards per carry but, the passing game will always be numero uno, despite match up. There is no reason why Dallas shouldnt be one of the best running teams in the nfl. NFL match up also had a nice little piece on Garrett's failure to adjust his play calling to the blitz as well. Romo is the most heavily blitzed QB in the league. He is getting hit more than ever and there is always a man free coming right at him and this is almost a constant. And forget about any mass protections...we have to have 4 guys going out all times running deep routes. And Garrett never holds himself accountable for anything. He's normally no where to be found after one of his head scratcher play calling days. As has been noted by the Dallas Morning News. Garrett def. has some good ideas but, we can do a helluva lot better, I def. feel we put up good yardage despite having Garrett...he has cost us many a game before and he will again. It's hard to trust him.



It's Ironic, because we have the opposite problem! We run 3 times in a row! hahaha. And then we get opposing fans come on and say Eli this and Eli that. But we would rather run the ball and fail, then throw a 1, 2, or 3 yard TD pass and you know what? Pad his stats a bit. If we threw the ball we win the Chargers game. Instead we run the ball, get a holding penalty and run some more out of shotgun, and then kick a FG go up 6. They score, and win. That's our boy Gilbride, that fool. Maybe you guys should get him, and we can take JG. After all his family is from here, so it may work! : P

That's the thing you guys are no a running game. There is a reason why I expect Romo to get over 300 yards passing in a game. When I see that I am not surprised. If Eli does that, in our system, I am over joyed. Then I think why did he have so many yards? What happened to our running game? When I see Romo throw 2 or 3 TDs and throw for 300 yards, I am thinking that's par for the course he is playing in.

Now the same thing I tell our fans. The call sheet you guys have game for game reflects your system. Maybe you guys don't have enough running plays in the red zone. Maybe most of the plays are passing because he feels like you should be able to execute. You have 3 backs like you said, and 1 all pro TE, a good WR corps, and a mobile QB to run it if no one is open. I'd be pretty confident too. Then again, I don't mind passing on the goal line. After watching our team run 3 straight times and kick a FG, it sort of gets to you.

Of course Romo is blitzed a lot. He is a gun slinger and is prone to making mistakes. On top of that your system is a passing system, so therefore it's logical for them to blitz you. Are they to sit back and let him own the defense with all the weapons you guys have?

Like I said no coach is perfect and there are a lot more OCs I am sure worse off than JG. One of them is our OC!

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:25 PM
I'm not saying we have to be a heavy running team, but we resort to low success rates when we pass on short yardage situations. Our redzone offense is bad... but our goalline is worse. Shotgun all the time also frustrates me. At least by lining up under center, you keep the defenses guessing and makes our offense less predicatble.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Yet we are 19th in attemts!

Your stat about not being a power rushing team I think holds little weight. We are first in the league in 1st down % rushing...


I think those numbers are very real and over the last 3 years, it's a large enough sample size.

We are a pretty good running team, but we are not a power rushing team. That is reality.

As for attempts, keep in mind our run pass ratio this year is closer to 50/50 than it was the last 2 years so I think he is running the ball more.

But guys, Aikman has said this over and over again. Running the ball is important, but you score points in this league by getting chunks of yardage in the passing game. I think the thing that has hampered us a little this year is the consistency with our new #1 WR, Austin. He's been really good, then disappear. I think the more he plays, the more that will even out and will directly result in the offense being more productive, IMO. I think this offense will get better as Austin gets more and more comfortable week to week.

Look, I'm not saying that JG is red Jesus and can do no wrong. I just think he gets criticized too much because if you look back over the last 3 years, his offense moves the ball really well. It's like the Romo in December thing; when you don't have success, people want to point to one thing that will fix all the problems. The reality is that most of the time it's a combination of things.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 01:34 PM
At least by lining up under center, you keep the defenses guessing and makes our offense less predicatble.

Now this I agree with you 100%!

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm not saying we have to be a heavy running team, but we resort to low success rates when we pass on short yardage situations. Our redzone offense is bad... but our goalline is worse. Shotgun all the time also frustrates me. At least by lining up under center, you keep the defenses guessing and makes our offense less predicatble.

So do we though? It happens. Do I like when we do that now. But think how the call sheet is designed for that week. You go by what you are successful in running, and what the flaw of the defense is. Then you create the call sheet and categorize the plays. Perhaps you have more passing plays in those situations than running. Why? Maybe because you pass so much, that teams expect a run, so you pass because you have the weapons to do so. Would I do that? No, I am more traditional in that sense, but the logic isn't totally flawed. I can see the thought process, but don't agree with it.

This is from our Falcons game

3rd and 3.. Instead of a slant, screen, draw, or pure run. What do we do?


3rd and 3 at ATL 46 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass deep right to M.Manningham pushed ob at ATL 13 for 33 yards (C.Jackson).

Now it works, but still 33 yards when you need only 3?


3rd and 4 at ATL 21 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short right to K.Boss to ATL 3 for 18 yards (M.Peterson).


We used to run curls and hitches like it was our job. 3rd and 4 I expect something like that to Smith. Find the zone get the first down like in the past. What do we do? 18 yards? WTF? Why? We need only 4. All these plays work, but I certainly don't like them. I know a lot of Giants fans thought the same thing in the game day thread.


3rd and 2 at NYG 41 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to H.Nicks to NYG 48 for 7 yards (C.Lofton).

3rd and 2.. Could we see a draw or a slant? Nope, we throw it again. Now this isn't as bad because a 7 yard pass is something that can be done, and not faulted. Again, not my style, but ok, i like can deal with the pattern ran. The other plays were just idiotic, but I can understand the thought process. I, of course, don't agree with it.




So basically all OCs do stuff like this. To what extent and how many times differs, but JG is not the only guy. That's my point there are A LOT of other OCs, including our OC, that does stuff like this. It comes down to your philosophy for your system, the team you're playing, and how you create the call sheet for that week.

thule
12-04-2009, 01:52 PM
So when your playing the GB packers who have argueably one of the best corners in the league, you should script a playsheet to only run the ball a total of 11 times?

How about when you draft a guy in the first round and he has proven he is explosive, yet fail to give him a touch when you need a spark against a tough divisional opponite.

He has cost us as many games with his playcalling than he has won for us with his playcalling.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:54 PM
So do we though? It happens. Do I like when we do that now. But think how the call sheet is designed for that week. You go by what you are successful in running, and what the flaw of the defense is. Then you create the call sheet and categorize the plays. Perhaps you have more passing plays in those situations than running. Why? Maybe because you pass so much, that teams expect a run, so you pass because you have the weapons to do so. Would I do that? No, I am more traditional in that sense, but the logic isn't totally flawed. I can see the thought process, but don't agree with it.

This is from our Falcons game

3rd and 3.. Instead of a slant, screen, draw, or pure run. What do we do?


3rd and 3 at ATL 46 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass deep right to M.Manningham pushed ob at ATL 13 for 33 yards (C.Jackson).

Now it works, but still 33 yards when you need only 3?


3rd and 4 at ATL 21 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short right to K.Boss to ATL 3 for 18 yards (M.Peterson).


We used to run curls and hitches like it was our job. 3rd and 4 I expect something like that to Smith. Find the zone get the first down like in the past. What do we do? 18 yards? WTF? Why? We need only 4. All these plays work, but I certainly don't like them. I know a lot of Giants fans thought the same thing in the game day thread.


3rd and 2 at NYG 41 (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to H.Nicks to NYG 48 for 7 yards (C.Lofton).

3rd and 2.. Could we see a draw or a slant? Nope, we throw it again. Now this isn't as bad because a 7 yard pass is something that can be done, and not faulted. Again, not my style, but ok, i like can deal with the pattern ran. The other plays were just idiotic, but I can understand the thought process. I, of course, don't agree with it.




So basically all OCs do stuff like this. To what extent and how many times differs, but JG is not the only guy. That's my point there are A LOT of other OCs, including our OC, that does stuff like this. It comes down to your philosophy for your system, the team you're playing, and how you create the call sheet for that week.
A lot of that is also dependent on the current score of the game. Ginger is too risky on the most critical parts of the game. Football is a simple sport if you go with the high percentage plays.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 01:57 PM
At times... That goaline... c'mon now. Ginger panics too much and passes when he panics. ...and it's waaaaay more than one goalline mistake that he has committed in the past. Every team's faults shouldn't justify his.

This team moves the ball well...? Did you see the Green Bay and Washington games?

Ginger will fail us in the playoffs.

D, sure those two games weren't good. GB is a little different than Wash. If RW doesn't blow two huge plays that take points off the board, I think that game has a very different look. Wash just wasn't good. But unless you are NO, you aren't going to put up 30 points every game.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:58 PM
So when your playing the GB packers who have argueably one of the best corners in the league, you should script a playsheet to only run the ball a total of 11 times?

How about when you draft a guy in the first round and he has proven he is explosive, yet fail to give him a touch when you need a spark against a tough divisional opponite.

He has cost us as many games with his playcalling than he has won for us with his playcalling.
How about 2 similar play calls where Sam Hurd runs the same route, 2 straight times against Champ Bailey in Denver on 3rd and 4th down with a chance to win at the very end of the game? Niiiiiiiice.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 01:59 PM
D, sure those two games weren't good. GB is a little different than Wash. If RW doesn't blow two huge plays that take points off the board, I think that game has a very different look. Wash just wasn't good. But unless you are NO, you aren't going to put up 30 points every game.
We have more talent on offense than NOR does.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 02:06 PM
He has cost us as many games with his playcalling than he has won for us with his playcalling.

Assinine.

If you consider that since he and Wade arrived, we are 30-13. So he gets zero credit for the play calling in those 30 wins, and he gets all the blame in the 13 wins?

It is not a black and white world folks.

I guarantee you he didn't 'call different plays' in the Washington game versus the Oakland game. It's about execution.



-

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 02:06 PM
A lot of that is also dependent on the current score of the game. Ginger is too risky on the most critical parts of the game. Football is a simple sport if you go with the high percentage plays.

Still doesn't make it good football. We were never behind that much at any point. So those plays weren't high %, and personally not a fan of them. I like high percentage plays, but football is far from a simple sport. Soon teams will see what you're trying to do from scouting tendencies. Again, it goes back to how his red zone call sheet is broken down. How many running and passing plays does he have? How many per situation? Down and distance?

Plus how much Flexibility does Romo have in the system? Can he back out of the play? Eli has that in our system, where 1. he can run the play 2. given 2 plays and picks one 3. can change the play totally. I guess it depends on what the OC wants for that play and what flexibility he is allowed. Can Romo change the play? I thought the game plan vs us was pretty good first time we played. That damn draw play was deadly.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 02:07 PM
We have more talent on offense than NOR does.


I don't think I agree with you there.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't think I agree with you there.
That's because you haven't seen what a good OC can do with our horses.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 02:12 PM
That's because you haven't seen what a good OC can do with our horses.

Just our of curiosity, what is you're ideal system for the horses you have?

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 02:15 PM
Still doesn't make it good football. We were never behind that much at any point. So those plays weren't high %, and personally not a fan of them. I like high percentage plays, but football is far from a simple sport. Soon teams will see what you're trying to do from scouting tendencies. Again, it goes back to how his red zone call sheet is broken down. How many running and passing plays does he have? How many per situation? Down and distance?

Plus how much Flexibility does Romo have in the system? Can he back out of the play? Eli has that in our system, where 1. he can run the play 2. given 2 plays and picks one 3. can change the play totally. I guess it depends on what the OC wants for that play and what flexibility he is allowed. Can Romo change the play? I thought the game plan vs us was pretty good first time we played. That damn draw play was deadly.
The damn draw play is deadly. But when your strategy is to use it for every key running play, then you paint yourself in a corner.

I'm really not sure how much flexibility Romo has. I can't imagine he doesn't have any... but he's not Peyton Manning out there either.

...and when you have Marion Barber, Tashard Choice and Felix Jones running the ball on short yardage situations is "easy football". Plus, you get less criticism if it doesn't work.

thule
12-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Assinine.

If you consider that since he and Wade arrived, we are 30-13. So he gets zero credit for the play calling in those 30 wins, and he gets all the blame in the 13 wins?

It is not a black and white world folks.

I guarantee you he didn't 'call different plays' in the Washington game versus the Oakland game. It's about execution.



-

I said as many won as lost. Which means for every game his play calling directly resulted in a win, you can find a game where his play calling resulted in a loss.

I'd say you could probably find 5 or so either way.

I guarantee you he didn't call different plays either. However this further proves my point by showing what a good gameplan against our offense and a bad one.

The skins had a great gameplan to shut us down. Oakland on 3 days rest being a west coast team had none.

Why are divisional games always so tough? Because the teams know each other and have a base on how to gameplan against it. If you fail at making a gameplan or simply get out coached it falls on the people at the top as well as the players on the field.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-04-2009, 02:38 PM
The damn draw play is deadly. But when your strategy is to use it for every key running play, then you paint yourself in a corner.

I'm really not sure how much flexibility Romo has. I can't imagine he doesn't have any... but he's not Peyton Manning out there either.

...and when you have Marion Barber, Tashard Choice and Felix Jones running the ball on short yardage situations is "easy football". Plus, you get less criticism if it doesn't work.

Well it depends on what he is doing off it. For instance, next time in a key situation go play action with that play, which you guys did against us. That play, if successful early, opens up the passing game, because teams have to play run. The trick to the play are the keys that defenses are reading. The way the linemen move, DEs are thinking pass and thus are trying to get to Romo, but once he hands off ALL 3 of your backs have sick holes to gash teams with. Now, from that play you can go play action and hit any of the 3 WRs and Witten. Hell, Romo can fake the hand and pull it if he decides to.

I prefer running it short situations but I am not against passing or screens. I like roll out or sprint out passing concepts too. But right off the bat I remember that draw play because it was a sick play. We do it out of shotgun while you guys did it from under center, and then hand off i think.

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 02:48 PM
That's because you haven't seen what a good OC can do with our horses.

I think you fandom is clouding your objectivity. :)

Macarthur
12-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Why are divisional games always so tough? Because the teams know each other and have a base on how to gameplan against it. If you fail at making a gameplan or simply get out coached it falls on the people at the top as well as the players on the field.


Doesn't this prove my point?

My point is that more than anything, it comes down to execution.

Look, Norv Turner was no genius. The 90's Cowboys play sheet could be printed on one page! They just executed like MFers.

thule
12-04-2009, 03:00 PM
Doesn't this prove my point?

My point is that more than anything, it comes down to execution.

Look, Norv Turner was no genius. The 90's Cowboys play sheet could be printed on one page! They just executed like MFers.

No I don't think we are on the same page.

By not being able to gameplan successfully JG has cost us victories. The most recent ones that come to mind is the Packers game which we have illuded to. The point is we knew that they had a good offense and strong corners. But JG failed to dial up an effective gameplan. Blame it on execution if you want...but we ran the ball 11 TIMES!! 11, this is just the most recent...you can go back to multiple games. I'm not saying JG does no good...I'm just saying that he can be out coached and while every coach can, it just seems like he overthinks things sometimes.

for instance
we should run behind LD and Columbo
-but that is what they think we'll do
so we will PA that and throw it on a out to witten
-but that will be their secondary read they know we love witten on 3rd down
so we will blah blah

I think that is JG problem. He is such a analytical thinker that he over does it and misses some of the easier details which he has control over.

Cam Cameron does a great job at this, I wish JG would have picked up more from him.

D-Unit
12-04-2009, 03:06 PM
Doesn't this prove my point?

My point is that more than anything, it comes down to execution.

Look, Norv Turner was no genius. The 90's Cowboys play sheet could be printed on one page! They just executed like MFers.
There was less parity in the league and w/out the cap, Jerry just bought success.

Coaching is more important now. You can't just blame execution especially when your playcaller is not putting you in position to succeed. Calling low percentage plays in situations is hardly a fault of players failing to execute. It's predictable. Draw play on 3rd and long? Shotgun on 3rd and short? Gee... you expect the players to carry the blame for those failures? Look at the position they're put in. These are real plays that Garrett calls for us!

M.O.T.H.
12-04-2009, 03:21 PM
Demarcus now has a slightly fractured wrist to go with his fractured foot. ugh.

He's going to play, they're not serious but damn, what luck.

thule
12-04-2009, 03:26 PM
I've had a fractured scapoid in my wrist for about 4 months now...it's definately one of those things that hurts...but he you can fight your way through it.

I wonder if it's one of those 5 bones...or if it's a fracture where the connection is made.

Ward
12-04-2009, 03:44 PM
Demarcus now has a slightly fractured wrist to go with his fractured foot. ugh.

He's going to play, they're not serious but damn, what luck.

Dude has definitely shown his toughness this season. I hope this isn't a trend for the remainder of his career (esp. since we just extended), but there's always next year.

herniateddisc
12-05-2009, 01:58 PM
If the G-Men come out Cover 2 and JG does not run the ball and get Austin the ball on short routes out of motion plays -- I will puke.

Send Roy Williams deep every play to entertain the safeties. Just have him run a straight line every time. At best he is open and he makes a big play catch and fall down before he fumbles.

Giantsfan1080
12-05-2009, 03:25 PM
If the G-Men come out Cover 2 and JG does not run the ball and get Austin the ball on short routes out of motion plays -- I will puke.

Send Roy Williams deep every play to entertain the safeties. Just have him run a straight line every time. At worst if he is open, he might make a big play catch and fall down before he fumbles.

If we come out Cover 2 then Congratulations!!!

LonghornsLegend
12-05-2009, 03:32 PM
Dude has definitely shown his toughness this season. I hope this isn't a trend for the remainder of his career (esp. since we just extended), but there's always next year.

Well there are 2 positive ways of looking at it:

1. He's never missed a game in his entire career.


2. He's played with a ******** of hampering injuries this year and is still producing at a high level and will reach double digit sacks and more then likely well over that number.



That's very encouraging for me, he was bound to get injured at some point, it's just how he deals with them. On the other hand Merriman looks like he's a shell of his former self after injuries and can't even suit up past his nagging injuries this year just for comparisons sake.

leroyisgod
12-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Ware is going to wear a cast today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4718834

I think the cast is a good call in my mind. This way there shouldn't be much pain when he's trying to use that hand. He just won't be able to grab with that hand.

Sniper
12-06-2009, 02:05 PM
Ware is going to wear a cast today.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4718834

I think the cast is a good call in my mind. This way there shouldn't be much pain when he's trying to use that hand. He just won't be able to grab with that hand.

And when he clubs Eli, he'll knock him the **** out.

leroyisgod
12-06-2009, 02:18 PM
And when he clubs Eli, he'll knock him the **** out.

Dah, I love it!!! Didn't even think about that possibility. Then he'll say "want to write that one on the wall."

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 04:06 PM
Surprise, surprise Garrett's red zone play calling has been garbage once again. He gets way too damn cute in the red zone. ughhhhhhhhhhh.

pocketaces
12-06-2009, 04:30 PM
unreal, must be December

thule
12-06-2009, 04:40 PM
Why is it that the most rediculous things happen to this team. It's almost like a joke.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 04:42 PM
Flo may have been ejected.

LizardState
12-06-2009, 04:45 PM
Flo may have been ejected.

If true, you will hear Dallas fans applauding everywhere. Why did they give all that $ to the league leader in blown snap counts?

Jesus they just showed it again, it looked like a blatant cheap shot, cost them 15 yds on the kickoff, that guy is a complete **** head.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 04:46 PM
I dont think that's exactly true. Most fans want to get rid of him but, only if we have a good replacement. And right now, Leonard Davis is essentially the back up LT and he was never really good at T.

Anyway, looks like he wasnt ejected.

herniateddisc
12-06-2009, 04:50 PM
When will this team and its players wever learn to close out the first half with FIRE?

You dominate and you are down 4 points plus you are kicking off to htem from the 20.

I just don't get this team. They repeat and repeat and repeat the same exact mistakes and it never gets solved.

herniateddisc
12-06-2009, 04:51 PM
1) Martellus drop on 3rd down in -Men territory (3-7 pts)
2) Williams awkward play in the end zone (4 pts)
3) MBIII fumble (10-14 pts)
4) 2 Off Sides / free plays/

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 04:54 PM
That Williams play wasnt really on him. Barber didn't know what he was doing it looked like and the timing on that throw was off. The ball was behind his head. It was a broken play to begin with.

Garrett's play calling was garbage in the red zone anyway. It's all pass, lots of shot gun, and wild cat runs.

We never run on 1st and goal.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 04:58 PM
Scandrick and Ball are playing like crap.

pocketaces
12-06-2009, 04:59 PM
Does anybody know who the **** steve smith is? Jenkins makes a play YES!!!

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 05:01 PM
Jesus Miles, tuck the football kid. damn. Dont be stupid.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 05:03 PM
Seriously Garrett is an idiot. Every time Hurd comes in, we run. I wonder if defenses have picked up on this. If 17 is in, it's a running play.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 05:18 PM
Now that was a beautiful Garrett play call for a change.

pocketaces
12-06-2009, 05:19 PM
Gotta give JG credit for that TD, very nice

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 05:23 PM
What a ******* joke.

thule
12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
Bradie James run a 4.8 40 my godness he looked slow.

Im_a_Romosexual
12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
more like 5 flat :/

thule
12-06-2009, 05:28 PM
We are so terrible at covering the RB out of the flats. This is such an annoying 3 year problem to have.

TheFinisher
12-06-2009, 05:42 PM
not making an excuse, but sensabaugh was mugged on that TD...

it's been a fustrating 3 quarters, if we lose I'll feel as if we gave away both games this year to the Giants

BaLLiN
12-06-2009, 05:46 PM
lol moth read your posts when your done.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 05:49 PM
What the Garrett thing?

Or the highs and lows deal? haha. I dont know.

BaLLiN
12-06-2009, 06:05 PM
What the Garrett thing?

Or the highs and lows deal? haha. I dont know.

the highs and lows, lol, you sound like us giants fans haha

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 06:06 PM
Not a fun day...we do something good and then we give up a huge play.

So many huge plays for you guys today. ugh.

Pokeys
12-06-2009, 06:10 PM
Someone teach this team how to tackle and maybe how to pursue the ball carrier. ffs the one game we hardly take any penalties the defense doesn't even fukin show up. And Folk is starting to cost us games.

pocketaces
12-06-2009, 06:13 PM
We are a team of losers. The meltdown has just begun. Im so sick of seeing this year after year.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 06:33 PM
This is on the defense first and foremost, followed by our run blocking. They were dominated up front. The defense was just a mess, big play after big play. Eli completed 11 passes with a completion percentage under 50 but, he averaged over 20 yards per completion, you just cant have that. Ball terrible, Scandrick terrible, Sensabaugh pretty bad, and Newman was beat several times. Jenkins played a great game once again, no surprise there but, it'd be nice if he could have some company. And Smith destroying our weak ass zones in the middle of the field...how beautiful was that? If Eli didnt play horrible and under throw a bunch of guys, we would probably have given up 40.

I also wish, we would have tested the Giants safeties. We didnt take many shots at all and it was def. the time to do so. Romo was still outstanding but, we should have taken some shots deep.

I was wary about this one but, I didnt expect to lose like that. At least the pass offense looked good but of course, as soon as we get something going, a light goes out somewhere else. In this case, it was the running game and the entire defense. ST deserves to be thrown under the bus as well today. Kick return, punt coverage, Nick Folk.

thule
12-06-2009, 06:38 PM
So frustrating. Turnovers and special teams lapses...I think i've seen this before...oh and giving up big plays on defense....iti must be december

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 06:40 PM
Well we only had one turnover but it was massive. Everything went downhill from there.

thule
12-06-2009, 06:47 PM
I thought everything went downhill after eli got that pass off to boss on his way to the ground....that was the real turning point.

So many whatif's could have changed the game.
Hurd doesn't touch that ball.
Watkins makes the tackle on Hixon
Romo doesn't overthrow roy

Those were three late plays that if happen we have a chance.

We all know this team is frustrating but it always seems like we dominate the Giants for a period of time and then fall apart with a chance or two to win at the end. We lost sigh

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 06:53 PM
Dont want to sound like a Hurd homer but, come on...

That kick was garbage to begin with...it went like 6-7 yards. If Sam wasnt even there, that ball is probably caught clean or it's just the same ruling because, it didnt go 10 yards. I would have loved for a better chance then what was given there. I cant stand when the kicker cant even kick the ball 10 yards down field.

I still cant believe how bad we were on defense with the big plays.

thule
12-06-2009, 07:01 PM
I wasn't bashing hurd...I was actually thinking that Hurd was such a smart player that I was hoping he would have faked it to let it hit the guy. I don't blame him for touching it...I just thought it would have been interesting to see him attempt it.

Also did anyone else have the feeling we were going to kick to that side....once I saw hurd over there I had a hunch. He seems to be mister onside.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Yeah, I was def. thinking they were going up to Hurd as well. I just wish the kick would have actually gone 10 yards. I hate when games end on a kick that doesnt even travel that far.

I wasnt on the edge of my seat for it or anything, though. I figured it was over anyway and didnt feel like we deserved to win either. sigh.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 07:12 PM
Well in other news...good news.

Romo now has 20 TDs to only 7 INTs. He did miss Roy but, you cant put this loss on him, he played a great game and threw 55 passes without a turnover.

55 freaking passes. You should never throw that much in a game.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2009, 07:49 PM
Well in other news...good news.

Romo now has 20 TDs to only 7 INTs. He did miss Roy but, you cant put this loss on him, he played a great game and threw 55 passes without a turnover.

55 freaking passes. You should never throw that much in a game.

Yeah but we stopped that running game. Plus you guys have a throwing offense, so I am not surprised. Same with Rivers, and Brees. Those offense have a lot of vertical stretch plays. If you noticed everything we throw is hitches and curls. We are a short to intermediate throwing team but we have taken more shots downfield. I thought JG also called a good game. That play design with a fake toss, play action, was a brillant play design!

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2009, 07:56 PM
Newman is so trash man, it's just terrible how bad he's fell off.


I told you guys how this game would be, I thought we could win, but our expectations were way too high thinking this would be just so easy. Romo played great, Jenkins played great, other then that it was a terrible game.

D-Unit
12-06-2009, 08:07 PM
One thing I learned....

The Giants have more confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

The Cowboys have less confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

Good thing I had to leave in the 3rd quarter and not have to watch the rest of that crap.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2009, 08:11 PM
One thing I learned....

The Giants have more confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

The Cowboys have less confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

Good thing I had to leave in the 3rd quarter and not have to watch the rest of that crap.

And rightfully so... Have you seen the way we played the like 6 weeks? We are ranked 31st in red zone defense for a reason. We also made bold moves this game like putting in kids to play, who haven't played at all. But I know I had zero confidence in this team. The way the played they didn't show anything. This was the first game I saw fire in them. Hopefully we use this as a stepping stone and keep playing our younger guys.

D-Unit
12-06-2009, 08:20 PM
And rightfully so... Have you seen the way we played the like 6 weeks? We are ranked 31st in red zone defense for a reason. We also made bold moves this game like putting in kids to play, who haven't played at all. But I know I had zero confidence in this team. The way the played they didn't show anything. This was the first game I saw fire in them. Hopefully we use this as a stepping stone and keep playing our younger guys.
You need to check your fanhood then. ;)

NY+Giants=NYG
12-06-2009, 08:27 PM
You need to check your fanhood then. ;)

LOL. That's one thing I pride myself on. Since I am in the game at some capacity, I try to keep my emotions out of it. Realistically, my team, on all 3 sides of the ball have shown nothing. Missed FGs, red zone TDs, no pressure, and offensive issues, have plagued us. We made some changes for this game, and the team came out with emotion like I haven't seen in a LONG time. It was actually really good to see that. Now it will be interesting to see if that carries over OR we go back to bending over...

Giantsfan1080
12-06-2009, 08:53 PM
One thing I learned....

The Giants have more confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

The Cowboys have less confidence in themselves than their fans have in them.

Good thing I had to leave in the 3rd quarter and not have to watch the rest of that crap.

We had no reason to be confident this year. I'm happy we won obviously but we still have a lot of work to do

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 09:07 PM
Yeah but we stopped that running game. Plus you guys have a throwing offense, so I am not surprised. Same with Rivers, and Brees. Those offense have a lot of vertical stretch plays. If you noticed everything we throw is hitches and curls. We are a short to intermediate throwing team but we have taken more shots downfield. I thought JG also called a good game. That play design with a fake toss, play action, was a brillant play design!

I cant be too hard on him today with the pass to run because, the run was shut down indeed...and I agree, that the one play call, was fantastic. But his red zone play calling is still garbage and we failed to take any real shots down field. Very short passing game today. Anyway, back to the red zone/goal line stuff. Pass, pass, wild cat run. What the hell is this crap? You have Barber, Witten, and Bennett. Instead he frequently goes to 4 WR shotgun formations. Which fail 9 out of 10 times for us. Luckily, today one worked, but it was still a shotgun pass on 1st and goal on like the 3 yard line. Garrett gets too cute and takes unnecessary risks, trying to out smart his opposition. It's actually having an adverse effect. He avoids Barber, Witten, and Bennett at the goal line and in short yardage situations...is he doing this so he can look smarter if he succeeds in another way? I seriously want to know because, he makes some of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen, as soon as we get into that red zone area. It's a major weakness in his play calling. He is the reason why we're such a bad red zone and goal line team. This is easily correctable but, he's so damn stubborn.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2009, 09:11 PM
I had no confidence we were going to win this game during the entire thing, not sure if that's a good or bad thing. Folk missing easy FG's every week, letting Brandon Jacobs run for 70+ yards on a screen pass, pathetic tackling on Hixon on a PR, dropping easy passes for 1st downs, fumbling on plays we had no business fumbling, the drive NY had right before the half, there is a laundry list of things that I just had to shake my head about this week.



As soon as some of those things started I knew we were going to lose, nothing we can do about it now but buckle down and try to win this division.



Oh yea Witten deserves props for his career day. Wonder how all those people feel now who said that his stats fell off due to TO being gone? Now we see that it was Garrett holding him back. Think back to Denver when he was in blocking in crucial situations instead of running routes. Now he's getting downfield and ironically he's put up back to back 100 yard games, TO has absolutely nothing to do with Witten producing and I laugh at whoever still thinks it's remotely true.


I still can't get over Terrance Newman, seriously. He can't cover anyone anymore. This is why I wanted the whole Pacman thing to pan out, letting him play opposite Jenkiins back to his old self would be ideal but that's neither here nor there, we are stuck with Newman and his declining play week in and out. It's a reoccuring thing with this guy.


I'll give everyone else a pass on some bad games, but he's consistently getting torched now, young WR's, vets, average WR's, slow or fast, doesn't matter anymore.


Scandrick too, wtf? He's regressed, I'm not gonna bash him like Newman because he is still learning and growing but he's obviously gotten worse, the play Smith dropped in the end zone wth kind of coverage was that? He used to lock guys down, now he looks no better then an average Joe out there.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2009, 09:13 PM
Oh yea, and that play-call with the fake handoff and fake pitch, then throw to Roy, was absolutely beautiful. Too bad we don't see that brilliance from Garrett consistently. But that play was amazing, perfect timing, execution, defense didn't know wtf was going on, neither did I, and I'm pretty sure that's the first time we have used that play all year.


More of that in the red zone would warm me up to Garrett.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 09:15 PM
Yeah, this is becoming a trend with Scandrick. He's obviously a talented player but, he has been bad for weeks now. You throw on him on 3rd down, you're getting a first down.

Jenkins is amazing, Sensabaugh is good, but gets beat every once and while and then the rest have just been bad.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2009, 10:20 PM
I'd also be pretty happy seeing this RW week in and out. Maybe he still is benefiting from Austin getting more coverage who knows, but he did have a nice move on Webster who everyone is in love with at the goal line for a TD, and would of had #3 if not for the overthrow.


I'm glad he's getting involved and looking more comfortable, I think even though Austin is still the #1 guy RW can still be productive and a weapon for us who can have these types of games. Let's see if he can get consistent with his play, but I think alot of it has to do with Garrett is finally learning how to use him and Austin to their strengths, and Romo is on target to RW more often.

E-Man
12-06-2009, 11:27 PM
This game made me sick to my stomach. I don't want to knee jerk and call this a repeat of years past, but they played horrible today. Sadly Romo is taking a **** ton of heat, when he did a pretty good job today. Those defensive breakdowns really make my skin boil. The good thing is that they're still number one in the East, and looking at the playoff scenario they'll have to have a drastic fail to not make it to the postseason. Nothing is guaranteed, so hopefully they use this loss as fuel to their fire.

M.O.T.H.
12-06-2009, 11:31 PM
A drastic failure is certainly possible with that horrible remaining schedule of ours. Realistically, they could lose all of them. I sure as hell hope not and I dont think they will but, there isnt a gimme in the bunch.

Reminds of last year's schedule. A "melt down" shouldnt have been surprising last year, considering we had to play the Ravens, Steelers, and Eagles at the end. It's not much better this year. This team def. has a different vibe to it this year...so I dont expect the same things to happen but, given the strength of our remaining schedule. We still may not make the playoffs. One game at a time.

E-Man
12-07-2009, 12:10 AM
I think two more wins will be enough to get in the playoffs, but they need to focus on taking the division to get at least one home game. Nothing is guaranteed though, and you're right about a drastic failure being within the realm of possibility. Of course they could win out, and today's game could just be a case of a rival going all out with their backs against the wall.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 12:14 AM
Well yeah, anything could happen. But I was just trying to say there is certainly a chance they could miss the playoffs. With the Giants, Eagles, and Packers all right there.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 02:39 AM
After today... Perrish Cox is starting to look like the number 1 I think we need.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 07:24 AM
I cant be too hard on him today with the pass to run because, the run was shut down indeed...and I agree, that the one play call, was fantastic. But his red zone play calling is still garbage and we failed to take any real shots down field. Very short passing game today. Anyway, back to the red zone/goal line stuff. Pass, pass, wild cat run. What the hell is this crap? You have Barber, Witten, and Bennett. Instead he frequently goes to 4 WR shotgun formations. Which fail 9 out of 10 times for us. Luckily, today one worked, but it was still a shotgun pass on 1st and goal on like the 3 yard line. Garrett gets too cute and takes unnecessary risks, trying to out smart his opposition. It's actually having an adverse effect. He avoids Barber, Witten, and Bennett at the goal line and in short yardage situations...is he doing this so he can look smarter if he succeeds in another way? I seriously want to know because, he makes some of the stupidest decisions I've ever seen, as soon as we get into that red zone area. It's a major weakness in his play calling. He is the reason why we're such a bad red zone and goal line team. This is easily correctable but, he's so damn stubborn.





I am sure with all the egos it must be hard to dial the right plays up. You guys took shots downfield. A lot of them were to Witten and Williams. Any more shots down field and you guys would be calling plays like us. A great Steve smith catch and we have great flow and momentum only for a stupid play call and stupid pass by Eli to get picked off in the end zone. If you want stupid play calling that was it. The pass then afterward was equally horrendous!

But I saw that play action on a toss, and I thought that was an amazing play. The draws were a good call and a lot of the short witten passes were controlled plays. I just think you guys expected to gash us in the running game again, and since we put younger guys in there it helped us out and gave us that spark.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 07:31 AM
Oh yea, and that play-call with the fake handoff and fake pitch, then throw to Roy, was absolutely beautiful. Too bad we don't see that brilliance from Garrett consistently. But that play was amazing, perfect timing, execution, defense didn't know wtf was going on, neither did I, and I'm pretty sure that's the first time we have used that play all year.


More of that in the red zone would warm me up to Garrett.

If you saw that consistently it would be effective. But I saw that play and I was a little bit, small bit, happy. It was a sick play and very creative! But yesterday I was paying close attention to your formations and play calling and I thought everything was fine. Great use of various formations, I saw a lot of concepts, from TE, Y stick to crossing routes, to screens, to deep passes, and screens. He called everything a good OC would call. He used every concept at his disposal. Slants were called as well. I thought overall it was a great game for JG.

LonghornsLegend
12-07-2009, 08:40 AM
If you saw that consistently it would be effective. But I saw that play and I was a little bit, small bit, happy. It was a sick play and very creative! But yesterday I was paying close attention to your formations and play calling and I thought everything was fine. Great use of various formations, I saw a lot of concepts, from TE, Y stick to crossing routes, to screens, to deep passes, and screens. He called everything a good OC would call. He used every concept at his disposal. Slants were called as well. I thought overall it was a great game for JG.


Yea, Garrett did fine. He's starting to learn how to use Roy and Austin, he stuck with the run even though it was shut down and we kept fumbling all over the place, it was more of a game that looked like we weren't focused or didn't want to win.


I'll see if he has finally got things figured out, or if it's right back to the old stuff, but honestly I didn't have any gripes with JG this week, it was just one of those weeks.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 08:50 AM
Yea, Garrett did fine. He's starting to learn how to use Roy and Austin, he stuck with the run even though it was shut down and we kept fumbling all over the place, it was more of a game that looked like we weren't focused or didn't want to win.


I'll see if he has finally got things figured out, or if it's right back to the old stuff, but honestly I didn't have any gripes with JG this week, it was just one of those weeks.

Well Roy is starting to get humbled now. He came in as if he will be the next great WR, and he has been anything but that. I think now the emergence of Miles, also means he needs to step up his game or else he may not get passes with Miles and Witten doing so well this year.

I think overall you guys have a great passing offensive system. I was happy to see you guys commit to running the ball, but when that was clearly not working you guys went to the air and did some good things.

We don't get to see that many cowboys game in NJ, unless it's nationally televised, but from what I saw I liked what I saw. It was a wide use of formations, concepts ( passing and running), and we even saw some very creative plays, specifically the goal line play action call.

Macarthur
12-07-2009, 09:17 AM
Very disappointing.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 09:47 AM
It seemed like our defensive gameplan was to give you the underneath option all game. Romo did a great job of locating it and exposing it (aka finding CC Brown and Bruce Johnson and picking on them, which is what he shouldve done, and what he did. Great job by Romo).

Still though, a couple of shots downfield was worth a try.

I was very surprised at the outcome of that game. Most Giant fans didn't think we had a chance in that game.

Your secondary is still an issue. If we had better pass protection, we wouldve been much more successful through the air. Guys were open all day. Jenkins is a beast, but the rest of that secondary and ILB duo looks vulnerable in coverage.

LizardState
12-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Who blew that tackle on the punt return for a TD?

It was more a flinging himself on the turf at his ankles than a tackle, Hixon just stepped over him. Material for the comedy highlight reel of 09.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 10:42 AM
There were 2 guys on the Cowboys that I was skeptical about that I'm sold on now.

Mike Jenkins and Miles Austin. I loved Jenkins coming out, then felt that maybe I overrated him, but now I see that he's a beast. He will wind up being the best CB in the East in a couple of years, maybe as soon as next year.


And Austin is solid. Gotta give Garrett credit for moving him around and finding favorable matchups. I feel like he'd be better in a WCO. Throw some quick slants, some screens his way to set up some sluggos and go routes.

He needs to work on route running though. But very impressed.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 10:47 AM
There were 2 guys on the Cowboys that I was skeptical about that I'm sold on now.

Mike Jenkins and Miles Austin. I loved Jenkins coming out, then felt that maybe I overrated him, but now I see that he's a beast. He will wind up being the best CB in the East in a couple of years, maybe as soon as next year.


And Austin is solid. Gotta give Garrett credit for moving him around and finding favorable matchups. I feel like he'd be better in a WCO. Throw some quick slants, some screens his way to set up some sluggos and go routes.

He needs to work on route running though. But very impressed.



Where did you come up with that? I am sure he is during practice and indy period.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 11:06 AM
Where did you come up with that? I am sure he is during practice and indy period.

He rounds out his routes sometimes. Often actually. He's big so having the knee bend for sharp cuts is difficult, but he can get lower on his cuts.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 11:42 AM
Who blew that tackle on the KO return for a TD?

It was more a flinging himself on the turf at his ankles than a tackle, the KR just stepped over him. Material for the comedy highlight reel of 09.

It was a PR and it was Pat Watkins, who is normally a stud on the coverage units.

herniateddisc
12-07-2009, 12:18 PM
There were 2 guys on the Cowboys that I was skeptical about that I'm sold on now.

Mike Jenkins and Miles Austin. I loved Jenkins coming out, then felt that maybe I overrated him, but now I see that he's a beast. He will wind up being the best CB in the East in a couple of years, maybe as soon as next year.


And Austin is solid. Gotta give Garrett credit for moving him around and finding favorable matchups. I feel like he'd be better in a WCO. Throw some quick slants, some screens his way to set up some sluggos and go routes.

He needs to work on route running though. But very impressed.

Jenkins is already the best corner in the NFC East. So is Austin at WR.

Didn't mean much yesterday though./

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 12:21 PM
Jenkins is already the best corner in the NFC East. So is Austin at WR.

Didn't mean much yesterday though./

Im not ready to say that yet. You gotta do it for more than half a season for me to say that. Which is why I want to see some carry over next year.

To me, Sheldon Brown has stamped himself as the best CB. He's just been absolutely brilliant this year. Jenkins is a little too green for that stamp just yet. But if he does this again next year, then yes, he's the best.


I personally think DJax is the best WR in the east as well. Not taking anything away from Austin, he's great, but if I had a choice between the 2, I'm taking DJax without question.

herniateddisc
12-07-2009, 12:28 PM
Im not ready to say that yet. You gotta do it for more than half a season for me to say that. Which is why I want to see some carry over next year.

To me, Sheldon Brown has stamped himself as the best CB. He's just been absolutely brilliant this year. Jenkins is a little too green for that stamp just yet. But if he does this again next year, then yes, he's the best.


I personally think DJax is the best WR in the east as well. Not taking anything away from Austin, he's great, but if I had a choice between the 2, I'm taking DJax without question.

Well Austin pretty much did what he wanted versus your corners yesterday. He had separation on every route. EVERY route .... if Romo hits him on two deep INs he ran in the 2 nd Q we likely have another 80-100 yards of receiving. Under threw both.

That Jason Garrett is none too bright and took ZERO chances to take advantage of your safeties speaks to how stupid he is. CC Brown was made to look good and that takes a special OC. In addition, GMen can not cover a 4 WR set and yet we did not run it yesterday once ..... He fell in love with the 22 and 11 set .... 24 points, lots of yards, few points. Great job Garrett..... and he abandoned the run entirely and never call play action on 2nd and short or third and short.

Jenkins is right now the best, I could care less how green he is. He has no safety help, getting picks and knocking down passes. He has been playing at this level since October.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 12:36 PM
He rounds out his routes sometimes. Often actually. He's big so having the knee bend for sharp cuts is difficult, but he can get lower on his cuts.

It depends on what the route is though. Ie Sail route you can do that. You have to have the WR section with the exact specs of the route, and compare that to the actually route. When you are running full speed, sometimes it's hard to get it exactly down. You rep it and practice it, but these are people and not robots. That's why I stay away from comments and analysis like that. I have seen the Mike martz WR section and there are SOOOOO many rules. It's hard for any fan to comment on it without seeing how they are taught and what the section says. In fact, as we speak, I am checking the WR section of some playbooks, and it all depends on variety of things. But too many fans make comments on stuff like that without having actually proof or know what's going on 100%.

That falls into this section of what fans say:

He runs wrong routes
Qb stares his WR down
offense is predicatable
and so on.. Usually the most popular quotes you read or hear from football fans at all levels when teams are struggling.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Well Austin pretty much did what he wanted versus your corners yesterday. He had separation on every route. EVERY route .... if Romo hits him on two deep INs he ran in the 2 nd Q we likely have another 80-100 yards of receiving. Under threw both.

That Jason Garrett is none too bright and took ZERO chances to take advantage of your safeties speaks to how stupid he is. CC Brown was made to look good and that takes a special OC. In addition, GMen can not cover a 4 WR set and yet we did not run it yesterday once ..... He fell in love with the 22 and 11 set .... 24 points, lots of yards, few points. Great job Garrett..... and he abandoned the run entirely and never call play action on 2nd and short or third and short.

Jenkins is right now the best, I could care less how green he is. He has no safety help, getting picks and knocking down passes. He has been playing at this level since October.

Actually, Austin did most of his damage against zone coverages. At the end of the first half he fudged his numbers on our prevent, and he fudged his numbers more at the end of the game on some prevent. In man, he only got some short catches underneath against our secondary.

Despite his numbers, the Giants actually did a standup job on Austin when it mattered. He wasn't the problem. Oddly enough, it was Roy Williams who did damage against us when it mattered. Not Austin.

As for CC, from my initial analysis of the game, and I could be wrong bc i need to go back and look at it again, but he was mainly deployed as a nickel LB for us, which is why Witten caught so many underneath routes. We didn't put him in a position to get burned deep. Aaron Ross played FS for us all game, and I think thats a big reason why not many deep shots were taken.

Garrett gets way too much blame. He did a brilliant job with exploiting matchups in this game. You guys threw for 400 yards for a reason. His 2 TE sets really exposed certain matchup problems for us that we couldn't cover, and thats why Romo was converting 3rd down after 3rd down. Coming out 2 TE forced us to play TT on Bennett, CWeb on Austin and Bruce Johnson on Williams. That really was a matchup Garrett wanted, and thats why Roy had a great game. He abused Johnson. By going big, Garrett forced us to go small on one his WRs, and use a LB on Witten. 2 matchups he wanted and he did a great job of exploiting it.

You can knock some redzone playcalling maybe, but honestly, it wasn't Garrett's bad in the redzone. We lucked out bc Romo had some guys he just missed in that area. The pass to Choice, thats supposed to be a TD, but he missed him.

I really have no legit explanation for why you lost. The Giants made big plays, and the Cowboys didn't. Thats what it came down to. Statistically, the Giants were outmatched in every category. But we just made some big plays, and Dallas didn't in key moments in the game.

I don't put that on Garrett. He called an excellent game. These things happen somtimes. We outplayed SD really bad and still lost to em. It happens sometimes.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 12:57 PM
It depends on what the route is though. Ie Sail route you can do that. You have to have the WR section with the exact specs of the route, and compare that to the actually route. When you are running full speed, sometimes it's hard to get it exactly down. You rep it and practice it, but these are people and not robots. That's why I stay away from comments and analysis like that. I have seen the Mike martz WR section and there are SOOOOO many rules. It's hard for any fan to comment on it without seeing how they are taught and what the section says. In fact, as we speak, I am checking the WR section of some playbooks, and it all depends on variety of things. But too many fans make comments on stuff like that without having actually proof or know what's going on 100%.

That falls into this section of what fans say:

He runs wrong routes
Qb stares his WR down
offense is predicatable
and so on.. Usually the most popular quotes you read or hear from football fans at all levels when teams are struggling.

I think sometimes you can accurately say when a WR is rounding routes. Like if he runs a square in, and he rounds it out pretty bad, you can criticize him without knowing the playbook.

Thats the hard part of trying to analyze offense. Unless you have the playbook, its so hard to figure otu what exactly happened.

Macarthur
12-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Amazing to me that anyone is looking at the offense, outside of the running game which NY sold out to stop.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-07-2009, 01:29 PM
I think sometimes you can accurately say when a WR is rounding routes. Like if he runs a square in, and he rounds it out pretty bad, you can criticize him without knowing the playbook.

Thats the hard part of trying to analyze offense. Unless you have the playbook, its so hard to figure otu what exactly happened.

Yeah, but it depends how each system teaches their routes. Like a square in may mirror a dig than a square in. Why? Because against a C2 defense, with the MOFO, that Dig/square in, has to change to a C2 beater. So you want the route to look the same to sell it. That's just an example but the details match other stuff you're trying to do. But as fans, without the WR section, it's hard to really know.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Garrett has once again managed to mask his problems in the face of his supporters. Me? I don't think he did enough in that game to dismiss his entire history of mistakes. Did he call a good game? YES. I can openly say that I thought that he did. I've been praying for some play action plays (set up by the run first) in the redzone and he did it for once. It was brilliant. This only goes to show me that he's still an OC who is a work in progress. Has he arrived now that he called a good game? Heck no. I'm not that dumb. Let's see how he does the rest of the year. I've said all along that he'll be a good OC down the line... I just don't want to have to deal with his growing development. ...which gets me to thinking... How do you guys judge his second half adjustments? Would I be out of line if I said, he didn't get the job done?

Side notes:

Boley is a better coverage LB than I thought. BBD has been saying it, but I have been doubting it. Doubt no more.

I overrated Webster. It's confirmed that he has problems versus bigger, more physical type receivers, but he is much better against smaller ones. Roy ate him for lunch. Giants might be wise to move him to nickel corner on occassion.

Confirmed: Cowboys suck in cold weather.

Terence Newman is making it look like CB is our #1 draft need.

Bradie James is a loser and I don't want to hear anyone defend him any longer. He MUST be replaced.

Jay Ratliff is the man, but the Giants know how to run over him. He has such great range and is sooo good at stopping and starting on a dime with his change of direction skills/balance... it pains me to see him stuck in the middle getting double teamed, when he could be on the edge either attacking the QB against a single blocker or covering the RB anytime he runs to the outside. Ratliff can MOVE... sideline to sideline and even cover. I'm convinced that a move to DE would do the team good.

Marcus Spears... are you alive?

Roy Williams - Thank you for earning your paycheck for once.

Marc Columbo... You are missed.

Doug Free... Learn how to run block... please.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Doug Free has been excellent at run blocking. Yesterday, the whole line was garbage.

Macarthur
12-07-2009, 01:54 PM
Free was pretty good yesterday. The one that really stunk was L. Davis. Tuck ate his lunch.

LizardState
12-07-2009, 02:01 PM
Jenkins is right now the best, I could care less how green he is. He has no safety help, getting picks and knocking down passes. He has been playing at this level since October.

Agreed, glad he is getting his chance. Flip side is the other worrisome corner, Newman, whose slump (December slump ? pls. don't remind us of multiple Dallas December slumps again, puh-leeze) is becoming iconic.

Never too early to talk about the best corner in the upcoming draft..... who is it?

LonghornsLegend
12-07-2009, 02:46 PM
Yep, Corner has got to be high on the draft list, sucks that Mickens didn't even last as a solid depth guy. Do we need to take 2 corners again that soon? Maybe, actually probably.


I agree about Boley also D, I heard BBD talk about his coverage in the Giants forum for awhile now, that play on Witten was just superb, stopped a 1st down on 3rd down too, their just much better with him on the field.


I really can't believe Romo played as good as he did, well really the offense in general, and defense and ST's were so bad. Roy did have a great game against Webster who everyone thinks is a lock as the best corner in the division, don't like to make too much out of one game but yea, he ate him up pretty good that game.

herniateddisc
12-07-2009, 04:30 PM
First Half O was on the Players. Second half the OC.

So all of Austin's catches were paded versus zone coverage ..... but DeSean is great b/c he catches lots of bombs on broken coverage? Austin would have had 200 yards if Romo does not under throw two deep crossing patterns. 300 if they went 4 WR.

GMen can't cover lunch at Taco Bell.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 05:02 PM
When 55ish yards and a TD come during prevent D, then yeah.

I remember telling my buddies during the game "Austin has been real quiet this game, i'm waiting for him to have a big play, bc you know its going to happen"

The problem was, it happened too late, when the game was out of hand. I readily admit I may have underrated him in the past, but I stand by my statement that the Giants held him in check, despite what the numbers tell you.

In other news, I found this very interesting:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?columnist=watkins_calvin&id=4721752

Supposedly the issue with the kicking game is McBriar's holding. He has admitted that he hates holding, and he's having issues putting it where Folk needs it. So many of Folk's misses are bad holds which are on McBriar.

Ok, sooooo why on Earth is Phillips having him hold then? Am I the only one dumbfounded by this? If this has been an issue and the coaching staff knew about it, and even McBriar has admitted to it, why on Earth has nothing been done about it? How moronic is that?

You have Kitna just sitting there eating sunflower seeds or whatever he's doing, the man can't hold a snap for a FG? Get his ass out there and dont have McBriar doing it.

I can't believe that. Just another example of Wade Phillip's ineptitude as a HC.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 05:02 PM
Doug Free has been excellent at run blocking. Yesterday, the whole line was garbage.
High praise. Can't say for sure either way, so I'll take your word for it. We need him to be the next great thing for us at OT because we have some secondary needs to fix.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 05:05 PM
When 55ish yards and a TD come during prevent D, then yeah.

I remember telling my buddies during the game "Austin has been real quiet this game, i'm waiting for him to have a big play, bc you know its going to happen"

The problem was, it happened too late, when the game was out of hand. I readily admit I may have underrated him in the past, but I stand by my statement that the Giants held him in check, despite what the numbers tell you.

In other news, I found this very interesting:

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?columnist=watkins_calvin&id=4721752

Supposedly the issue with the kicking game is McBriar's holding. He has admitted that he hates holding, and he's having issues putting it where Folk needs it. So many of Folk's misses are bad holds which are on McBriar.

Ok, sooooo why on Earth is Phillips having him hold then? Am I the only one dumbfounded by this? If this has been an issue and the coaching staff knew about it, and even McBriar has admitted to it, why on Earth has nothing been done about it? How moronic is that?

You have Kitna just sitting there eating sunflower seeds or whatever he's doing, the man can't hold a snap for a FG? Get his ass out there and dont have McBriar doing it.

I can't believe that. Just another example of Wade Phillip's ineptitude as a HC.
But McBriar held before and Folk was fine. Folk is probably throwing the doubt into McBriar's mind by saying he's not holding it right. I'm having serious issues with Folk right now.

If anything... I blame the coaching staff for not knowing if Buehler can kick or not developing to be a kicker.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 05:11 PM
But McBriar held before and Folk was fine. Folk is probably throwing the doubt into McBriar's mind by saying he's not holding it right. I'm having serious issues with Folk right now.

If anything... I blame the coaching staff for not knowing if Buehler can kick or not developing to be a kicker.

hmmm.

but McBriar has said this year he's been reaching for the ball, which is throwing the placement off?

i dunno. Folk was so money in the past. i know if you guys release him, id love for him to be a Giant. its not like age hit him and he's not the same kicker anymore. something has to be up with his recent struggles.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 05:25 PM
hmmm.

but McBriar has said this year he's been reaching for the ball, which is throwing the placement off?

i dunno. Folk was so money in the past. i know if you guys release him, id love for him to be a Giant. its not like age hit him and he's not the same kicker anymore. something has to be up with his recent struggles.
He got hurt. He's never really been the same since.

Time to find out what Buehler can do.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 05:34 PM
Agreed, glad he is getting his chance. Flip side is the other worrisome corner, Newman, whose slump (December slump ? pls. don't remind us of multiple Dallas December slumps again, puh-leeze) is becoming iconic.

Never too early to talk about the best corner in the upcoming draft..... who is it?
Everybody loves Haden, Warren's building hype... Robinson/Lindley has some strong supporters. I personally love Perrish Cox, who is rated as a 2nd rounder. I feel we could get him in the first round with confidence, unless his stock goes crazy in the predraft workouts... which it may. I just love everything about that guy. Physical in run support, athleticism/body control is off the charts. Not sure what his timed speed is, but I think he's a special player.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Im not entirely sure if CB is an issue. Ive said forever that Wade is a great DC at generating pressure packages, but terrible in drawing up coverages.

Everywhere he's gone, there have always been "issues" in the secondary. He's just terrible at drawing up coverages.


Even in SD when he had that unit playing great, they had coverage issues. I think theres some talent at CB on the Cowboys. You could definitely afford an upgrade at Safety though.

But again, it comes back to the age old question: Ignore the trenches early for skill position talent, or address the fronts?

Call me crazy, but im still an advocate of the Cowboys switching to a 4-3 defense.

Ward
12-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Call me crazy, but im still an advocate of the Cowboys switching to a 4-3 defense.

What's the front 7 look like in that scenario?

LDE - Ware
NT - Olshansky (more of a run stopping DE, so might as well utilize Ratliff's pass rush)
UT - Ratliff
RDE - Spencer

WOLB Carp/Jason Williams eventually?
MLB James
SOLB Brooking

Just spitballing.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 07:07 PM
What's the front 7 look like in that scenario?

LDE - Ware
NT - Olshansky (more of a run stopping DE, so might as well utilize Ratliff's pass rush)
UT - Ratliff
RDE - Spencer

WOLB Carp/Jason Williams eventually?
MLB James
SOLB Brooking

Just spitballing.

Well, i see it like this. Theres really only 2 guys in that front 7 that are worth caring for, Ratliff and Ware. Outside of those 2, nobody in the front 7 is so valuable that they must stick with the 3-4.

And the issue for several years now has been coverage from the LB core to go along with a shakey "secondary" which as Ive stated before, I feel is a little inaccurate bc Wade doesn't scheme coverage very well.

So when I look at this team, I think going to a pressure 4-3 front would do it some good. In the 3-4, you guys have needs at NT, possibly 3-4 DE, and youre looking for a stud ILB. Thats 3 major needs in the front 7 to make a complete front 7.

If you switched to a 4-3, I think you initially would have this front 7.

LE - Anthony Spencer: Has shown he's great vs the run, but lacking as a pass rusher. He'd make a solid LE in a 4-3 who can be subbed out for a situational pass rusher in nickel formations.

NT - Marcus Spears: I firmly believe that Marcus Spears would make a great 4-3 NT. He's not a 3-4 DE, and he's not a 3-4 NT. But as a 4-3 NT, I think this guy can salvage his career. He's great against the run, and can occupy guys inside if put in that scheme

UT - Ratliff: He's a beast wherever you put him. But 4-3 UT where he can fire gaps and pressure the interior line is probably his most natural position.

RE - Ware: He can be just as much of a stud DE as he is an OLB. And don't worry about losing his coverage. With the firezone being so successful lately, its not uncommon to see DEs drop in coverage the way 3-4 rushbackers do these days.

That pretty much fixes your "dline" issues. Now the LB core would have to be overhauled. But its a hell of a lot easier finding LBs than it is finding linemen. You can go about this in numerous ways. Bradie James can be your run thumping MIKE, you might go with Jason Williams if he shows enough promise.

You can draft a WILL.

Once you get some smaller but quicker LBs in there your coverage will improve. All of this comes with a price though, as your front 7 gets smaller vs the run. But honestly, your front 7 wasn't that big to begin with. Wade was running that 1 gap 3-4 which really isn't a true 3-4 to begin with.

And your guys up front can always bulk up. Ware can easily get up to 270, as could Spencer. Spencer is probably better at around 265.

Ratliff can pack on 10 lbs. Spears can get up to 315. So its not like your dline would be tiny. It can muscle up a little and get to the proper size.

It really comes down to preference. I prefer a 3-4, always have, but the issues with this defense have been the same for years now, and it doesn't seem like JJ is set on fixing them or addressing them early in the draft, so maybe a scheme change which would deflect the needs to other positions would be a shakeup for the better, if it means needs are being addressed instead of pushed to the side.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:09 PM
I was saying earlier that it could have been Mcbriar but, that last game the hold looked clean. So, I blamed it on Folk...But now, I'd have to see it again because, apparently Mcbriar said he was still spinning the ball as it got kicked. Which would make sense, considering what happened to the ball after it was kicked. Anyway, it's time for a new holder...now Folk may be making excuses but, there may be some truth to this. Brad Johnson was the previous holder and there were new problems. It'd be nice to change holders and see where it goes.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:11 PM
But McBriar held before and Folk was fine. Folk is probably throwing the doubt into McBriar's mind by saying he's not holding it right. I'm having serious issues with Folk right now.

If anything... I blame the coaching staff for not knowing if Buehler can kick or not developing to be a kicker.

This is Mcbriar's first year as his holder and Mcbriar has taken blame for some of his earlier misses. I've given Folk the benefit of the doubt for a while. I'd love to see a new holder.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:13 PM
FYI, Spencer isnt lacking as a pass rusher. The guy has been great this season...and his pressure has been consistent. The sack numbers are lacking but, he is right up there in hurries. He's playing very well.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 07:15 PM
FYI, Spencer isnt lacking as a pass rusher. The guy has been great this season...and his pressure has been consistent.

he's been getting hurries, but you wanna see him finish more often. he reminds me of Kiwanuka, as Kiwi has had similar problems.

until you finish those rushes, youre not a true pass rusher. you gotta finish.

especially with Ware and Ratliff attracting so much attention. Spencer should be having a better year statistically.

I still think he'll eventually get there. It doesn't happen overnight for everybody.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Spencer's stats dont tell the whole story. He is always in the Qb's face. I talked about it before, it just seems like bad luck that he's not getting sacks more than anything. As stupid as it sounds. The Qb always just manages to throw it away at the last second when Spencer is coming in....regardless of how quickly he gets there. It's been a shame to watch because, he really IS playing well. We have a really good player in Spencer.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Spencer's stats dont tell the whole story. He is always in the Qb's face. I talked about it before, it just seems like bad luck that he's not getting sacks more than anything. As stupid as it sounds. The Qb always just manages to throw it away at the last second when Spencer is coming in....regardless of how quickly he gets there. It's been a shame to watch because, he really IS playing well. We have a really good player in Spencer.

well regardless, i think he can play in a 4-3 either way. Again, I prefer a 3-4, but for some odd reason, the changes that need to be made to the front just aren't getting done.

the changes that would be needed to complete a switch to a 4-3 in my eyes are much easier, and would happen quicker.

i doubt the switch is made though. highly unlikely.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:32 PM
I dont agree with the switch myself. This was just a strange game...Dallas' defense had been great this year. Playing better every week until now. We just gave up so many huge plays. Hopefully we'll bounce back...the defense has been a strength for us. I wasnt expecting that unit to be the problem yesterday...I actually thought our offense would have struggled.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 07:34 PM
BBD, you have a point about the 4-3 and our current personnel, but it's more than just switching players here and there and having them add/lose weight. Jerry decided that this team was going to go full fledged into the 3-4 and we are well into it. It'd be a bigger mistake to flip flop this thing, than to keep trying until you get it right. The most important thing we need is consistency. The Giants have our #. For some reason, we give up huge plays and 3rd down conversions to you guys like no other.

I think with Wade... I agree his secondaries have sucked. What we probably need are secondary players that have more natural instinct... ones that go less off coaching and more on free lancing... but are still discplined enough to not be a liability. I dunno, just guessing out loud here.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 07:38 PM
Lets trade our whole draft for Revis! :D

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 07:49 PM
Maybe you just need a safety. Afterall, look at the Steelers. Its obvious now that Polumalu carried that secondary.

They have a great front 7 and a stud safety, and they had one of the best defenses ive seen in years last year.

Maybe all thats missing is that one stud safety to enforce the middle of the field. *shrug*

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 07:51 PM
Lets trade our whole draft for Revis! :D
Did you say, "Let's trade our whole draft for Eric Berry?" :D

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 07:53 PM
Maybe you just need a safety. Afterall, look at the Steelers. Its obvious now that Polumalu carried that secondary.

They have a great front 7 and a stud safety, and they had one of the best defenses ive seen in years last year.

Maybe all thats missing is that one stud safety to enforce the middle of the field. *shrug*
We need better safety help. That's been something we've lacked since Darren Woodson left. Amazing that we haven't been able to fix it yet.

bigbluedefense
12-07-2009, 07:58 PM
We need better safety help. That's been something we've lacked since Darren Woodson left. Amazing that we haven't been able to fix it yet.

again though, it begs the question, do you ignore the trenches for a safety?

to be honest, im just bringing up conversation. it might all be a moot point, afterall the Cowboys are in 1st place and who knows maybe they can win the SB this year and we'll forget about all of this, but we like dissecting and overanalyzing, so i bring it up for the sake of conversation.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 08:16 PM
again though, it begs the question, do you ignore the trenches for a safety?

to be honest, im just bringing up conversation. it might all be a moot point, afterall the Cowboys are in 1st place and who knows maybe they can win the SB this year and we'll forget about all of this, but we like dissecting and overanalyzing, so i bring it up for the sake of conversation.
In an uncapped offseason, yes.

We're currently in the process of figuring out what Doug Free and so far, the consensus is that he's starting material. So Columbo going down has been a blessing in that regard. With Columbo back and rookie Robert Brewster back our OL may not be a first round need.

Jerry hasn't ever invested in a first round OL. Maybe this will be the year. There are convincing arguments on both sides. We need to find a future replacement for Flo if Free isn't that guy. It all hinges on how Free does the rest of the year.

DL is a concern... but personally, I'm not a fan of a first round NT. DE ok. NT...eh... OK for the 4-3, but not the 3-4. I still want Ratliff on the outside, and I know our fanbase is split 50/50 on that notion. A round 1 DT that is around our area is Dan Williams. Wouldn't be totally upset.

But our secondary is in shambles. Newman has regressed. Scandrick hit a wall. I'm not even sold like the others on Sensabaugh either. He can be upgraded imo. Hamlin is trash. So is Watkins.

It'll boil down to position need versus value on the board. I just hope Jerry doesn't do anything too cute that will hurt us.

LonghornsLegend
12-07-2009, 08:50 PM
Spencer's stats dont tell the whole story. He is always in the Qb's face. I talked about it before, it just seems like bad luck that he's not getting sacks more than anything. As stupid as it sounds. The Qb always just manages to throw it away at the last second when Spencer is coming in....regardless of how quickly he gets there. It's been a shame to watch because, he really IS playing well. We have a really good player in Spencer.

He blew that play on Jacobs, well so did Bradie too(even though Sensy got held), but that was Spencer's man and he got caught off guard and completely burnt. I agree on how well he's played without the stats, he's done great vs the run, providing pressure, and in coverage, he is a very good overall LB for us that has improved but that play pissed me off.



As for Folk, I put it on the surgery he had, nothing else makes sense. I give him until next year to see how he works on his accuracy but no way he is gone for a down year, if he starts off next year bad then get him out of here.



I hate the talk of switching to a 3-4, we drafted WAY too many players for this scheme to scrap it. We just took two pass rushing OLB's in this past draft in Brandon Williams and Victor Butler and Butler is the real deal. Change in scheme means 2 wasted picks. Spencer is not a 4-3 End, he plays standing up way too much for it to happen, and you also lose the versatility.


We like to move guys around, rush Spencer and Ware from the same side, rush Ware from different sides, you lose almost all of that by going to a 4-3. It's not even worth talking about unless Wade is fired, if that happens sure let's entertain it depending on who we bring in, but in all honestly it's way too risky knowing our best player thrives in a 3-4.


It's easy to say he'll be ok in a 4-3, I think he'll be fine to but the fact is we just don't know, why ruin a 20 sack player by putting him in a whole new defense? We aren't that far away, no need in wasting the players we do have and making it another 4-5 year project getting pieces who fit and scrapping all these prior draft picks.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 08:54 PM
Mcbriar having bad holds would actually make sense because, Folk is pulling everything bad....even when the ball is right in the middle of the field. Yes, that could be from the surgery as well but, he seems to think Mcbriar is the problem and Mcrbriar agrees. We just need to switch holders and see what happens. Kitna is apparently not an option, Hurd said he'd do it, and Wade didnt rule out Romo according to this article I just saw. If it continues, well then...you know what the problem is.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Mcbriar having bad holds would actually make sense because, Folk is pulling everything bad....even when the ball is right in the middle of the field. Yes, that could be from the surgery as well but, he seems to think Mcbriar is the problem and Mcrbriar agrees. We just need to switch holders and see what happens. Kitna is apparently not an option, Hurd said he'd do it, and Wade didnt rule out Romo according to this article I just saw. If it continues, well then...you know what the problem is.
You are definitely the ever apologist for our Cowboys forum, MOTH. It's great though...

Julius Jones... Bradie James... Marcus Spears... Nick Folk... Classic. :p

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 09:28 PM
You are definitely the ever apologist for our Cowboys forum, MOTH. It's great though...

Julius Jones... Bradie James... Marcus Spears... Nick Folk... Classic. :p

People write people off incredibly quickly. Fans are incredibly fickle, and want everything yesterday. Look at all the fans who turned on Romo so quickly. :/

If I think someone flat out sucks on our team, I'll be honest. Considering Folk has been one of the best kickers in the league in his short career. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Plus, he did have a different holder those first two years in the league. You dont just give up on a kicker as talented and proven as Folk this quickly.

As for the rest...I always thought Julius was better than he was...but he's just a lazy back who doesnt possess the best of attitudes. I certainly believe he could be a lot better than he is but, he is lazy player. The inconsistency in how he hits the hole is ridiculous. He takes plays off and at RB, you cant do that crap. He's a disappointment. James is fine, he was a pro bowl caliber LB last season, he's always sucked in coverage but, he's not a bad player. The hate was idiotic for years...most fans dont even know what they have in comparison to other teams. Like all the hate Romo gets. It's insane. And the defending of Spears...he's just not as bad as everyone made him out to be. I never said he was amazing or a pro bowler but, he's not horrible. Hell, I'd rather start Bowen, as we've discussed before but Spears isnt that bad.

I just hate when fans constantly ***** about their own players...especially when most of the time, it's not even warranted.

Most fans in my experience, are negative and fickle...it gets old. James has a great game = James is great, guess I was wrong. James has a bad game = cut him now. Insert just about anyone's name in place of James and you have a typical fan reaction.

D-Unit
12-07-2009, 11:19 PM
People write people off incredibly quickly. Fans are incredibly fickle, and want everything yesterday. Look at all the fans who turned on Romo so quickly. :/

If I think someone flat out sucks on our team, I'll be honest. Considering Folk has been one of the best kickers in the league in his short career. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Plus, he did have a different holder those first two years in the league. You dont just give up on a kicker as talented and proven as Folk this quickly.

As for the rest...I always thought Julius was better than he was...but he's just a lazy back who doesnt possess the best of attitudes. I certainly believe he could be a lot better than he is but, he is lazy player. The inconsistency in how he hits the hole is ridiculous. He takes plays off and at RB, you cant do that crap. He's a disappointment. James is fine, he was a pro bowl caliber LB last season, he's always sucked in coverage but, he's not a bad player. The hate was idiotic for years...most fans dont even know what they have in comparison to other teams. Like all the hate Romo gets. It's insane. And the defending of Spears...he's just not as bad as everyone made him out to be. I never said he was amazing or a pro bowler but, he's not horrible. Hell, I'd rather start Bowen, as we've discussed before but Spears isnt that bad.

I just hate when fans constantly ***** about their own players...especially when most of the time, it's not even warranted.

Most fans in my experience, are negative and fickle...it gets old. James has a great game = James is great, guess I was wrong. James has a bad game = cut him now. Insert just about anyone's name in place of James and you have a typical fan reaction.
Yeah, but after a while it's always the same names... and you still stick up for them... But that's why we love you. LOLz.

M.O.T.H.
12-07-2009, 11:25 PM
Funny you say that because, I wouldnt even bring them up if they werent constantly bashed...in most occasions, my posts about the before mentioned players are after someone hates on them.

W/e it's not a big deal. I'm sure it could be annoying on both ends.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-08-2009, 09:50 AM
well regardless, i think he can play in a 4-3 either way. Again, I prefer a 3-4, but for some odd reason, the changes that need to be made to the front just aren't getting done.

the changes that would be needed to complete a switch to a 4-3 in my eyes are much easier, and would happen quicker.

i doubt the switch is made though. highly unlikely.

They can make a switch to a 4-3 defense. They don't play a true 34 defense anyways. I can see them easily making the switch to a 43 as opposed to a team changing from a 2 gap 34.