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bigbuc
12-03-2009, 11:22 PM
After tonight I have to say yes. The guy is a monster, him and Wood on Thanksgiving have made me remember why top shelf cornerbacks are taken top 10 all the time ( Revis was taken 15th ) it's crazy to see these guys go up against the best and shut them down. TO has been going off the last two weeks with over 250 yards and 2 td's, tonight Revis held him to 31 yards. And Wood held Calvin Johnson to 10 yards! It's fun to see great cornerback play back, now I wish the Raiders would let Nnamdi lockup on wideouts all over the place.

TACKLE
12-03-2009, 11:43 PM
1a) Nnamdi
1b) Revis
2) Woodson

Jughead10
12-03-2009, 11:45 PM
Revis is the best. Better than every CB in the league. And by a decent amount. Well before tonight.

Jvig43
12-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Yeah Revis is playing out of his mind right now. Im really impressed.

Giantsfan1080
12-03-2009, 11:49 PM
I agree. I think Revis has passed Asomugha by at this point.

fenikz
12-04-2009, 12:00 AM
Revis Aso and DRC are my top 3

Thumper
12-04-2009, 12:02 AM
Revis Aso and DRC are my top 3

The same DRC who has given up 6 touchdowns this season?

fenikz
12-04-2009, 12:03 AM
no clue, the same one who shuts down WR after WR

Thumper
12-04-2009, 12:08 AM
no clue, the same one who shuts down WR after WR

and by shut down do you mean allow 5 other teams #1 receivers to go for over 100 yards? Or do you mean allowing 6 touchdowns? Or is it allowing 620 yards this season (which btw is 5th worst in the NFL)?

yo123
12-04-2009, 12:10 AM
DRC over Woodson? Ugh. Don't even know where to start. I'm about the defend a Packer, let me get my vomit bag ready.

Notable #1 receivers who played the Cardinals so far this year. Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Mike Sims Walker, and Steve Smith. All of them went over 100 yards except Smith who has to play with Delhomme and still had 56 yards and a TD.

fenikz
12-04-2009, 12:12 AM
and by shut down do you mean allow 5 other teams #1 receivers to go for over 100 yards? Or do you mean allowing 6 touchdowns? Or is it allowing 620 yards this season (which btw is 5th worst in the NFL)?

your so called "facts" seem to be getting in the way of the complete awesomeness that is DRC

Interesting fact, Larry Fitzgerald is the 1st person to play against his own team

Thumper
12-04-2009, 12:19 AM
??? Must have miscounted, regardless he had allowed 5 receivers to go over 100 yards.

Sheldon Brown has been the best CB statistically this season and the fact that he has yet to be mentioned is disappointing.

fenikz
12-04-2009, 12:21 AM
and im pretty sure MSW was covered by McFadden, i think DRC was covering Holt

yo123
12-04-2009, 12:21 AM
your so called "facts" seem to be getting in the way of the complete awesomeness that is DRC

Interesting fact, Larry Fitzgerald is the 1st person to play against his own team

Yes, epic fail on my part. Point remains the same.

Giantsfan1080
12-04-2009, 12:26 AM
The top 3 CB's this year so far are Revis, Brown, and Woodson.

Michigan
12-04-2009, 12:26 AM
http://mvictors.com/WordPress/images/2009/bam_thumb.jpg

MetSox17
12-04-2009, 01:40 AM
Lol, DRC shouldn't even be in the conversation with Revis and Asomugha. He isn't even in the same topic.

fenikz
12-04-2009, 01:46 AM
I clearly put him in the conversation
http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2009/01/04/NFL_narrowweb__300x451,0.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813b5395/Cardinals-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Giants-2009
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d813533f9/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Rodgers-Cromartie-INT-TD

Ness
12-04-2009, 01:47 AM
I've been really impressed with Asante Samuel's play. All along I thought he would fall off the Earth once he left New England, but here he is arguably better in Philadelphia than he was in Foxboro.

CC.SD
12-04-2009, 01:53 AM
Maybe in terms of pure gooey shutdownness but as to who the best corner is this year, you have to give it to Woodson.

holt_bruce81
12-04-2009, 02:20 AM
I clearly put him in the conversation
http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2009/01/04/NFL_narrowweb__300x451,0.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813b5395/Cardinals-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Giants-2009
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d813533f9/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Rodgers-Cromartie-INT-TD

I love DRC as well, but I wouldn't say he's top 5 just yet. Could he be in the future? absolutely.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-04-2009, 02:30 AM
Andre Goodman is pretty good, man.

Cicero
12-04-2009, 02:47 AM
I still give it to Nnamdi.

wicket
12-04-2009, 02:47 AM
for me Nnamdi is still number 1 but revis is close. After that there is a bit of a gap before the likes of charles woodson and stuff come in the rankings

AntoinCD
12-04-2009, 03:02 AM
At the minute I would say it's Revis, Woodson then Aso. Revis is scary good. He consistently shuts down the best(Moss, TO, Andre Johnson etc) and gets INTs. Woodson is a flat out playmaker, pure and simple. Aso is the best at taking away one side but he needsto make more plays to get back to the top IMO

JFLO
12-04-2009, 04:58 AM
It's definitely Revis...for some reason, I've been getting more Oakland games this year and Nnamdi's performance hasn't been as good this season as it was last year or the year before.

Also, if DRC is the a top 3 corner, then Antoine Winfield is #1, but that is only in "Homer World", right?

Don Vito
12-04-2009, 05:28 AM
Revis is a great corner, he completely blanketed Moss the first time we played them this year and got Randy really frusturated. Revis is a pretty quiet guy too, but he did make exception to Moss not really respecting him and was jaqing at him throughout the game. Revis is definitely a top tier defender in the NFL; he has size, athleticism, ball skills, and is a competitor.

Aso is right there with Revis, he just is in a tough spot in Oakland. He was the epitomy of a shutdown corner last year, I haven't seen much of the Raiders and he may have regressed a bit, but he and Revis are probably 1A and 1B as others here have said.

Charles Woodson is older but he is playing at such a high level, not only can he take a top receiver out of the game but he still has the ability to make huge plays whether is be a game clinching diving pick or a sack. One of my personal favorite players in the league. Champ may not be the same player he was 5 years ago but he still needs to be mentioned in this discussion.

The last guy who could be mentioned in this top tier (could be forgetting someone) is Asante. Every Pats fan, player, and coach knew how big losing him would be no matter what anyone says; he was going to be our shutdown guy entering his prime but as in years passed we refused to pay him and this time it really bit us in the ass.

Scotty D
12-04-2009, 06:26 AM
Calvin could barely walk on Thanksgiving, plus he caught a TD pass. But yeah keep using that game as a benchmark

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 06:32 AM
It's definitely Revis...for some reason, I've been getting more Oakland games this year and Nnamdi's performance hasn't been as good this season as it was last year or the year before.

Also, if DRC is the a top 3 corner, then Antoine Winfield is #1, but that is only in "Homer World", right?

I think Feniekz is just sticking with DRC because he has been saying him for a long time so he wants to stay consistent, anyone being rational or honest with themselves knows DRC's name should be nowhere near best corner in the league period.

AntoinCD
12-04-2009, 06:36 AM
An interesting stat to use in seeing how good Revis is:

in 6 and a half years Nnamdi has 11 INTs and 1 TD
In 2 and a half years Revis has 13 INTs and 2 TDs.

Then take into account Revis will shadow the top guy pretty much every snap makes this a relatively easy decision at this point

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2009, 06:40 AM
An interesting stat to use in seeing how good Revis is:

in 6 and a half years Nnamdi has 11 INTs and 1 TD
In 2 and a half years Revis has 13 INTs and 2 TDs.

Then take into account Revis will shadow the top guy pretty much every snap makes this a relatively easy decision at this point
interceptions are as useless of a stat as tackles

AntoinCD
12-04-2009, 06:49 AM
Yea they are if the CB is consistently giving up big plays. As I mentioned earlier Revis does almost as good a job shutting WRs down as Aso but makes more big plays. Plus tackles only stop the play, INTs stop the whole opposing team on that drive and can potentially get you TDs or very good field position. A tackle for a 2 yd gain is hardly the same as an INT returned for a TD

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2009, 06:56 AM
Yea they are if the CB is consistently giving up big plays. As I mentioned earlier Revis does almost as good a job shutting WRs down as Aso but makes more big plays. Plus tackles only stop the play, INTs stop the whole opposing team on that drive and can potentially get you TDs or very good field position. A tackle for a 2 yd gain is hardly the same as an INT returned for a TD
Interceptions are never a good way to measure anything.

AntoinCD
12-04-2009, 07:08 AM
Interceptions are never a good way to measure anything.

Yea I fully agree, however when using them as an added bonus always helps. If two players are almost identical except one gets more INTs then it puts them slightly ahead.

Ed Reed would not be thought of as highly without all his INTs and returns even though he would still be awesome.

As a measuring stick INTs aren't good however as a tiebreaker I think it is perfectlly acceptable

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2009, 07:28 AM
the thing is that they are two CBs, with 2 different assignements, different surroundings.
Just saying Revis is better because he has more Ints over his career in a shorter time is laughable considering that Aso had like 2 ints the year were only 40 passes were thrown to his side.
You have Interceptions that you compare over their careers as a measuring stick for how they are doing right now because right now they are both great at covering.

And no im not saying Revis is worse. he is 1a/b or whatever. But interceptions are not a measuring stick ever for me. Most of them are lucky anyways and not great plays by the CB, unless its someone called Polamalu.

Ed Reed and his returns on the other hand is something else. Returning an interception you can compare their vision, their patience to set up blocks and such things.

tjsunstein
12-04-2009, 07:29 AM
Anyone who mentions Asante as being up there with Aso, Woodson, and Revis is horribly mistaken his ability. He cannot tackle worth a damn and most, if not all, of his interceptions have been in zone coverage. The same coverage that he got paid for. Not saying he isn't a respectable corner and playmaker but he isn't very good man to man. Not even the best on his team. I know Sniper has been driving this bandwagon for a while now but after watching a couple Eagles games this year, I have to agree.

Maybe in terms of pure gooey shutdownness but as to who the best corner is this year, you have to give it to Woodson.

Woodson has been pretty unbelievable. You're going to start hearing his name less and less as teams target away from him with Harris shut down for the season.

I still give it to Nnamdi.

Why?

Calvin could barely walk on Thanksgiving, plus he caught a TD pass. But yeah keep using that game as a benchmark

http://www.nfl.com/videos/detroit-lions/09000d5d81480ab9/Calvin-Johnson-1-yard-TD-rec

Listen to the commentary. Really a hard route to cover. You would have to think with a target as big as Calvin that they were gonna try a fade but it was a great play.

ironman4579
12-04-2009, 07:32 AM
I have to say, that draft ended up being a pretty damn good draft for CB's.

Revis
Leon Hall
Aaron Ross
Chris Houston
Eric Wright

Plus Brandon Meriweather at safety.

gsorace
12-04-2009, 09:17 AM
If the Jets were any good Revis would be in the defensive player of the year discussion.

brat316
12-04-2009, 09:29 AM
How old is Woodson now? You guys really expect him to keep up this type of play for another 2-3 years?

umphrey
12-04-2009, 09:37 AM
I said this 1-2 weeks ago and I feel exactly the same now: Revis and Woodson are the top 2, neither is decidedly better than the other. When it comes down to shutting down a receiver, Revis is better, but Woodson moves all over the field and carries his defense (BTW, the Packers are the #1 defense right now, mostly because Woodson put the team on his back since the Cowboys game). Their overall impact on a game is close. Revis is the elite cover corner, Woodson is a very, very good cover corner. Nnamdi is overrated. He plays for the Raiders. He's top 5 good but not in the discussion for the best.

ThePudge
12-04-2009, 09:39 AM
I'd go..


1. Darrelle Revis
2. Nnamdi
3. Charles Woodson
4. Sheldon Brown
5. Johnathan Joseph

- I think you have a couple guys you could throw into those 4 & 5 spots, but Brown and Joseph, IMO, are the two best. I think Sheldon's the best corner on his team, and I think Asante's interception total prevents people from seeing just how good a player Sheldon is. Asante is the big play guy, Brown's the one that does everything right. One of my favorite tackling corners as well. As for J-Jo, he's been a blanket in man coverage and has made big plays in big situations for the Bengals this season.

Splat
12-04-2009, 09:40 AM
Nnamdi is not overrated if you want to argue he is not the best any more fine but to say he is not in the discussion is a joke.

Jvig43
12-04-2009, 10:02 AM
the thing is that they are two CBs, with 2 different assignements, different surroundings.
Just saying Revis is better because he has more Ints over his career in a shorter time is laughable considering that Aso had like 2 ints the year were only 40 passes were thrown to his side.
You have Interceptions that you compare over their careers as a measuring stick for how they are doing right now because right now they are both great at covering.

And no im not saying Revis is worse. he is 1a/b or whatever. But interceptions are not a measuring stick ever for me. Most of them are lucky anyways and not great plays by the CB, unless its someone called Polamalu.

Ed Reed and his returns on the other hand is something else. Returning an interception you can compare their vision, their patience to set up blocks and such things.

Come on man, just luck? Sure every CB has a few lucky ones over his career but to say that most of them are just luck is ridiculous.

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 10:26 AM
interceptions are as useless of a stat as tackles

There not useless if your not basing your entire argument off of them. I get the point your trying to make, but you just cannot ignore Revis is a play-maker and when the ball is thrown in his area that he can go up over the WR and make the leaping INT, majority of those are anything but luck.


I know Aso wasn't thrown at much so it shouldn't be a knock against him at all, but in no way should you discredit the amount that Revis has or consider them useless.

Borat
12-04-2009, 10:33 AM
DRC? LOL wut?

scottyboy
12-04-2009, 10:39 AM
Revis has made some very nice plays. I've seen a ton of him and he really is just superb. I mean there are the lucky off Smith's leg bounce INT's, but still, many are great plays. His one against NE part 1 was a very nice over the shoulder pick. I mean, dude's a stud, this coming from a Giants and Rutgers homer talking about a Jets player from Pitt...

Splat
12-04-2009, 10:40 AM
Let's take deltha o'neal in 2000 (iirc).

Every time someone brings up ints as an argument as for who is the best CB I think of this.

FlyingElvis
12-04-2009, 10:40 AM
Yes.

1. Revis
1a. Woodson

And they are close. Woodson may not be in his prime with the potential to get better but the guy is playing lights out right now. Give me my choice of the two for the playoff run and I'll take Woodson. Give me my choice for the playoff run and the future and I'll take Revis.

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 10:48 AM
i'm not suggesting that revis' were bad picks. but let's take deltha o'neal in 2000 (iirc). literally EVERY single int he had was the result of a bad pass, he never had to make a play on the ball. but because he ended up with like, 10 ints, he was suddenly talked about as a "top" CB. in that case, the ints were completely irrelevant in the discussion of his ability, because it took next to no ability to get them.

like i said, i have seen roughly 1.2 quarters of jets football since week one, so i have no idea how "good" revis' picks were. but the idea that they can always even be somewhat relevant is just not true.


I remember that year he had which is a great point in light of using INT's as the base of your argument, just in this case Revis has at least shown he can play great man to man coverage and limit some all-pro WR's like Randy Moss and Andre Johnson with his pure coverage ability. Then when you throw in the INT rate, and how at least some of them are made by him making a great play on the ball in the air I think it's relevant.



I feel like if you can display great coverage ability and limit a great WR, as well as make a play on the ball that should be all taken into account, some DB's don't have the presence or hands to be able to do those types of things outside of just coverage.


That's still a very impressive INT total for Revis though, especially when you consider that teams know how good he is now, he'll have the fluke plays like vs Carolina of course but I have seen a few that show how good of a complete corner he is.

TitleTown088
12-04-2009, 10:51 AM
DRC over Woodson? Ugh. Don't even know where to start. I'm about the defend a Packer, let me get my vomit bag ready.


Don't be sick that you're able to see football somewhat objectively. Woodson is likely going to win DPOY if he keeps up his play. The funny part is that Woodson is just getting noticed for his play in Green Bay this season. He's been playing great since here got there, yet few people took notice.


Yes.

1. Revis
1a. Woodson

Agreed.

619
12-04-2009, 11:20 AM
The crazy thing about Revis' ball skills is that there is still tons of room for improvement in that area. He was never heralded as a ball hawk coming out either, and now look at where he is, with five INTs for the second straight year, while maintaining his rep as one of, if not the best, shutdown corners in the league.

Yesterday aside from his one pick he dropped another two that he probably should have taken a better angle to. Fundamentally he is as good as they come; he has a great feel for the position, and knows where his man is at all times, as well as doing an outstanding job of staying in front of him at all times. Some corners decide not to do this in fear of misjudging the ball and getting burned for six. It really is a risky thing to do if you do not have great anticipation skills.

Everyone likes to bring up his dominance in man coverage, but I have seen him diagnose plays better than just about every other DB in zone coverage, and seemingly knock down pass after pass, too, like a safety would. Evidenced by his league-leading 23 passes defended (next closest player is Leon Hall with 17).

I have watched many Jets games this season (I am a huge Mark Sanchez guy, of course), and I am a Raiders fan, but based off this year’s play alone I would have to give Revis the honor of top corner in the league. There really is not a flaw to his game right now, and he has had immediate success at one of the toughest positions to master in football, especially with all the rules changes over the years that have shifted in favor of the offense.

Revis is without a doubt a blue-chip player anyone would love to build their organization around. Great character also, not much of a talker, and a very humble individual. The sky is the limit.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-04-2009, 11:33 AM
i'm not suggesting that revis' were bad picks. but let's take deltha o'neal in 2000 (iirc). literally EVERY single int he had was the result of a bad pass, he never had to make a play on the ball. but because he ended up with like, 10 ints, he was suddenly talked about as a "top" CB. in that case, the ints were completely irrelevant in the discussion of his ability, because it took next to no ability to get them.

like i said, i have seen roughly 1.2 quarters of jets football since week one, so i have no idea how "good" revis' picks were. but the idea that they can always even be somewhat relevant is just not true.

Reading Deltha's career stats is hilarious. He has a season with 9 picks, a season with 10 picks, and three seasons with just one.

DeepThreat
12-04-2009, 11:46 AM
I think it's nearly impossible to rank corners. So many other variables come into play. Scheme, pass rush, safety help, and even who the other corner is all have huge impacts.

And then there's the question of what you want from a corner. Revis is certainly more of a playmaker than Aso, but one can still make the argument that Aso more consistently shuts down his guy.

But I will say that Aso, Revis, and Woodson are clearly the top 3 in the game.

phlysac
12-04-2009, 11:47 AM
On another forum I had to read that the reason Revis succeeds is because he is allowed to be illegally physical in his coverage. That he is constantly arm barring, hand fighting and bumping receivers past 5 yards. So blatantly, in fact, that the author claimed that Revis must pay off the referees.

I lul'ed

Splat
12-04-2009, 12:25 PM
So blatantly, in fact, that the author claimed that Revis must pay off the referees.

He is just trying to even the playing field.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lnekc3.jpg

Da-Phins
12-04-2009, 12:37 PM
Andre Goodman is pretty good, man.

An interesting story on him. He came to the Dolphins in 06 and for the 06 and 07 season is was an ok corner for us. In the 08 season for the first half of the season or so he played awful and kept getting burnt time after time again. Then during the week of mid season he missed practice cause of family reasons and his teammates and coaches was praying for him and hoping he's ok so obiously it was something that was serious for him and his family. Once he came back after that, he was a whole new guy out there and was starting to play pretty damn well. Probably the best he's ever played and he's continuing to do so for the Broncos. So what ever that family thing was really sparked Goodman and gave him new life out their on the field.

Back to the thread topic, hands down its Revis. He's money out their. I dunno what his contract is and if he's on his rookie deal then its prob up here soon. So if I was the Jets, I would lock him up as soon as I can.

Prowler
12-04-2009, 01:32 PM
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

revis 43% completion against 11.1 YPC 55.3 QB rating against 11 pass deflections 2 interceptions and 2 touchdowns given up
woodson 54% completion against 11.9 YPC 58.5 QB rating against 3 pass deflections 7 interceptions and 2 touchdowns given up

woodson however has 27 stops(solo defensive tackles which constitute an offensive failure) to revis' 10 and 2 sacks, 2 hits, and 5 pressures. charles also has 20 more tackles.

revis holds a slight edge in coverage, but woodson is a better all around player. i would take either one of them.

aso is low from teams completing 19 of 23 passes against him. for comparison revis allowed only 28 of 65 and woodson 29 of 54 passes. but then again teams run on oakland and those passes could have been in easier situations. regardless:stats don't lie.

ElectricEye
12-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Revis is absolutely disgusting. He shouldn't be allowed in the game. Takes away an entire side of the field for all intensive purposes, and does it in a variety of coverages. Anybody who can make Randy Moss look like a scrub can play on my team. I still love Nnamndi, but Revis shuts people down just as well and is just a flatout player maker as well.

yo123
12-04-2009, 01:37 PM
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

revis 43% completion against 11.1 YPC 55.3 QB rating against 11 pass deflections 2 interceptions and 2 touchdowns given up
woodson 54% completion against 11.9 YPC 58.5 QB rating against 3 pass deflections 7 interceptions and 2 touchdowns given up

woodson however has 27 stops(solo defensive tackles which constitute an offensive failure) to revis' 10 and 2 sacks, 2 hits, and 5 pressures. charles also has 20 more tackles.

revis holds a slight edge in coverage, but woodson is a better all around player. i would take either one of them.

aso is low from teams completing 19 of 23 passes against him. for comparison revis allowed only 28 of 65 and woodson 29 of 54 passes. but then again teams run on oakland and those passes could have been in easier situations. regardless:stats don't lie.


Stats do lie. That same website has Ray Edwards ranked above Jared Allen, Tramon Williams as the 8th best CB in the league, and Justin Forsett as the 5th best RB. Profootballfocus is garbage.

All three are great, and it's interesting that in Aso's "down year" he's been thrown at 23 times in 11 games.

Hurricanes25
12-04-2009, 01:40 PM
Stats do lie. That same website has Ray Edwards ranked above Jared Allen, Tramon Williams as the 8th best CB in the league, and Justin Forsett as the 5th best RB. Profootballfocus is garbage.

All three are great, and it's interesting that in Aso's "down year" he's been thrown at 23 times in 11 games.

You're right. That website is pure crap. Aso is playing like the 41st best CB in the league? Yea, I don't think so.

Prowler
12-04-2009, 01:44 PM
edwards doesn't have anything to do with revis and woodson, but yes there has to be some kind of thought going into any kind of analysis from these stats. i was throwing these stats out there to help people better gauge the difference between the 2. its not that great for 'who's the best' but its pretty good for helping see the differences.

and the worse stat is seeing jeff backus ranked as the 11th best tackle in the league due to his awesome run blocking. if he was that good then kevin smith should run behind him from now on.

Whistler6
12-04-2009, 02:20 PM
http://mvictors.com/WordPress/images/2009/bam_thumb.jpg

Any top 3 list without Charles Woodson is a complete joke. The guy is absolutely lights out and it's his run defense and pass rush that sets him above the rest...Along with the lockdown coverage.

ATLDirtyBirds
12-04-2009, 04:00 PM
I have to say, that draft ended up being a pretty damn good draft for CB's.

Revis
Leon Hall
Aaron Ross
Chris Houston
Eric Wright

Plus Brandon Meriweather at safety.


Using Chris Houston and good CB in the same sentence is just wrong in so many ways.

ironman4579
12-04-2009, 04:04 PM
Using Chris Houston and good CB in the same sentence is just wrong in so many ways.

I mean, he was starting for awhile......................

Seriously though, I haven't watched close to enough Falcons games to make any kind of judgement. I just remember some Atlanta fans on the board talking him up at the end of last year/beginning of this year. Still, both Revis and Hall are very good/great young CB's, and I think Ross and Wright have at the very least shown flashes of being pretty good NFL CB's.

P-L
12-04-2009, 04:43 PM
Revis is probably the best in coverage right now, but Woodson is easily the best all-around corner right now. He's not even a full notch below Revis in coverage but is far better against the run and is a better playmaker. I would still rank Asomugha up at the top. He is still having a damn good year, just not as good as his 2007 or 2008.

CLong4Heisman
12-04-2009, 04:53 PM
The old saying used to be that water covers half the earth and Charles Woodson covers the other half. Personally, I think it's Revis just because of who he's had to face week in and week out. Andre, Moss, MSW, Owens and so on.

Shiver
12-04-2009, 04:55 PM
If we were picking corners for a game next week I would take Asomugha over anybody, if I was picking for the future it would be Revis without a doubt. I am reserving a little bit of judgement on Revis right now though, in those "prime-time" matchups he hasn't really been put on an island against a Moss or Johnson.

CC.SD
12-04-2009, 05:09 PM
The old saying used to be that water covers half the earth and Charles Woodson covers the other half. Personally, I think it's Revis just because of who he's had to face week in and week out. Andre, Moss, MSW, Owens and so on.

Water covers more than half the Earth.

Mr.Regular
12-04-2009, 05:26 PM
This year it's between Revis and Woodson...both have been lights out. I think Revis has a very, very slight edge in coverage, but Woodson is better against the run, and they unleash him in blitzes which he's been great at.

Can't go wrong with either one.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-04-2009, 08:23 PM
The old saying used to be that water covers half the earth and Charles Woodson covers the other half. Personally, I think it's Revis just because of who he's had to face week in and week out. Andre, Moss, MSW, Owens and so on.

No, the old saying was something along the lines of "Water covers 75% of the earth and Fred Smoot covers the rest". Guess who coined that phrase?

CLong4Heisman
12-04-2009, 08:23 PM
Water covers more than half the Earth.

I know. The originator of the quote did not.

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 08:30 PM
I know. The originator of the quote did not.

Lol like everyone hasn't used that phrase/quote at some point and just inserted their best player in the secondary in it at some point.

BufFan71
12-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

gsorace
12-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

How many Jets games have you watched this season?

BufFan71
12-04-2009, 09:09 PM
How many Jets games have you watched this season?

enough....

phlysac
12-04-2009, 09:23 PM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

In much the same way that Buffalo Bills QB's and RBs's get a ton of help from their OL.

LonghornsLegend
12-04-2009, 09:38 PM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

Oh ok, so that must mean he sucks then right? Great argument.

tjsunstein
12-04-2009, 11:08 PM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

Obviously. I mean Kerry Rhodes hasn't been benched this year or anything.

Thumper
12-04-2009, 11:31 PM
I clearly put him in the conversation
http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2009/01/04/NFL_narrowweb__300x451,0.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d813b5395/Cardinals-Defense-Highlight-WK-07-vs-Giants-2009
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d813533f9/WK-5-Can-t-Miss-Play-Rodgers-Cromartie-INT-TD

So are you one of those people who think Antonio Cromartie is a top 10 corner?

Staubach12
12-05-2009, 12:21 AM
I'm having a hard time determining whether I like Revis or Nnamdi better. Both fantastic players. However, over the past couple weeks, Revis hasd definitely looked like a dominant kind of player. Exciting for Jets fans. Not so exciting for Randy Moss, Davone Bess, or Terrell Owens.

BigBanger
12-05-2009, 02:07 AM
My Top 10:

1. Charles Woodson, Green Bay
2. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
3. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
4. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
5. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
6. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
7. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
8. DeAngelo Hall, Washington Redskins
9. Corey Webster, New York Giants
10. Eric Wright, Cleveland Browns

Top 10 Worst CBs:

1. Chris Johnson, Oakland Raiders
2. Chris Houston, Atlanta Falcons
3. William James, Detroit Lions
4. Jonathan Wilhite, New England Patriots
5. Derek Cox, Jacksonville Jaguars
6. William ***, Pittsburgh Steelers
7. Bryant McFadden, Arizona Cardinals
8. Ronald Bartell, Saint Louis Rams
9. Chris Gamble, Carolina Panthers
10. Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2009, 05:13 AM
Asante Samuel is not better than Nnamdi and Tillman is not worse than at least someone like Zack Bowman.

What makes you think Tillman is bad?

UKfan
12-05-2009, 05:23 AM
DeAngelo Hall over C-Web makes UKFan a sad bear :-(

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2009, 05:34 AM
DeAngelo Hall even mentioned in the thread is sad

senormysterioso
12-05-2009, 06:08 AM
Top 10 Worst CBs:

1. Chris Johnson, Oakland Raiders
2. Chris Houston, Atlanta Falcons
3. William James, Detroit Lions
4. Jonathan Wilhite, New England Patriots
5. Derek Cox, Jacksonville Jaguars
6. William ***, Pittsburgh Steelers
7. Bryant McFadden, Arizona Cardinals
8. Ronald Bartell, Saint Louis Rams
9. Chris Gamble, Carolina Panthers
10. Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears

Jarett Bush deserves to be #1 on this list...That guy couldn't cover a bed with a two sheets and a comforter.

UKfan
12-05-2009, 06:18 AM
If DeAngelo Hall makes it in, Kelvin says:

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/7392/25126_medium.jpg

Here I am!

Sniper
12-05-2009, 07:28 AM
Charles Woodson (Praised Be His Name) is the best.

scottyboy
12-05-2009, 08:15 AM
Revis gets a ton of safety help

words can't describe how wrong, irrelevant, and dumb this post is...

BufFan71
12-05-2009, 08:39 AM
words can't describe how wrong, irrelevant, and dumb this post is...

coming from the guy who thinks every Rutgers player will be the savior of the NFL

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 09:36 AM
My Top 10:

1. Charles Woodson, Green Bay
2. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
3. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
4. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
5. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
6. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
7. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
8. DeAngelo Hall, Washington Redskins
9. Corey Webster, New York Giants
10. Eric Wright, Cleveland Browns


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Johnathan Joseph has been the Bengals best corner this season. He was the last two seasons as well, though plagued by injuries and poor hands. He's been one of the league's three or four best in man coverage and has taken receivers out of games. His five interceptions have come from mostly good coverage, though the pick 6 vs. Pittsburgh was more him reading a miscommunication and keeping an eye on the Quarterback. J-Jo's hands have gotten much better this year, though we're still talking about a guy that has had about 5 or 6 legitimate Int chances go right through his hands. Leon Hall's very good, a bit more physical and can cover the bigger receivers, he has longer arms and makes plays on the ball. The duo does, however, sometimes struggle in zone coverage where the Bengals D often looks far too soft. We're not deep enough at CB, so teams that utilize 4 WR sets can give us fits (see: Houston).

Both these two are very good, challenging (but not quite up to) Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel as the top duo in football.

Not trying to call you out, or show you up here on your personal rankings, but I thought it may help to get some feedback from a Bengals fan that has gotten to see every game.

RaiderNation
12-05-2009, 09:59 AM
DeAngelo Hall is the most overrated CB not named Antonio Cromartie.

tjsunstein
12-05-2009, 10:04 AM
Jarett Bush deserves to be #1 on this list...That guy couldn't cover a bed with a two sheets and a comforter.
This. He would still suck even for UFL standards.

coming from the guy who thinks every Rutgers player will be the savior of the NFL
Well, I agree with Scotty and I don't have a Rutgers bias. So what happens now? Do you accept that your post was stupid? Or do you find something to say about my biases, whichever you think they are? Maybe, just maybe, you could defend your post with some logical thinking. But, thus far, you don't seem too good at that.

alexthegr8
12-05-2009, 11:05 AM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Johnathan Joseph has been the Bengals best corner this season. He was the last two seasons as well, though plagued by injuries and poor hands. He's been one of the league's three or four best in man coverage and has taken receivers out of games. His five interceptions have come from mostly good coverage, though the pick 6 vs. Pittsburgh was more him reading a miscommunication and keeping an eye on the Quarterback. J-Jo's hands have gotten much better this year, though we're still talking about a guy that has had about 5 or 6 legitimate Int chances go right through his hands. Leon Hall's very good, a bit more physical and can cover the bigger receivers, he has longer arms and makes plays on the ball. The duo does, however, sometimes struggle in zone coverage where the Bengals D often looks far too soft. We're not deep enough at CB, so teams that utilize 4 WR sets can give us fits (see: Houston).

Both these two are very good, challenging (but not quite up to) Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel as the top duo in football.

Not trying to call you out, or show you up here on your personal rankings, but I thought it may help to get some feedback from a Bengals fan that has gotten to see every game.

I'll add what is a contrarian view of the Bengals corner situation. I am a lifelong Bengals fan who has watched every game they've played in black and orange, and I think that Leon Hall has been the better corner by an appreciable amount. In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to say that after C Wood and Revis, one could make the case that Leon has played as well as any other corner in the league this season.

I will say that this fact surprises me some. Before the season I viewed Leon as a nice player, but he really has played at an elite level. He is physical, fast, strong, technically sound, smart, he tackles, he has good ball skills and he has demonstrated leadership qualities through his work ethic and a willingness to play through pain (the elbow injury that was Rey Maualuga induced :) ) that I think puts him near the top of the list of corners in the league. He's really a fantastic player.

Also, there was a quote from the Bengals home page that stated that many in the lockerroom and some members of the coaching staff consider him to be the Bengals best defensive player (I'm posting from my Blackberry so I can't reproduce the link right now, but I will if anyone wants to see it.)

To another poster's point about the 2007 draft being a good one for corners, I agree. It's funny because many draft experts/sites claimed that there were no elite talents at the position in that draft before it took place, and now it looks like the best corner in the league came from that draft (Revis) along with what I consider to be a pro bowl caliber player in Leon Hall.

Sniper
12-05-2009, 11:14 AM
In fact, I don't think it's a stretch to say that after C Wood and Revis, one could make the case that Leon has played as well as any other corner in the league this season.

Ahem...

http://philatude.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sheldon_brown.jpg

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Ahem...

http://philatude.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sheldon_brown.jpg

My favorite corner in football. Recently, on my Top 5 list, I had Brown 4th. Love the way he plays.

tjsunstein
12-05-2009, 11:27 AM
Turnovers Created:

1st. Charles Woodson
7 ints - 3rd best
4 forced fumbles - 3rd best

Splat
12-05-2009, 11:32 AM
Since we are just throwing any CB in to the mix I will to.

Brandon Flowers FTW...

alexthegr8
12-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Ahem...

http://philatude.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sheldon_brown.jpg

:) Sheldon is an excellent player and is having a very, very good season. I won't argue with anyone who says that Sheldon is having a better season, but I think that Leon is having a comparable season in Cincinnati. I was going to post that he hasn't given up a touchdown all season, but I think that the immaculate deflection has been credited against him aacording to the prospectus that people are using to help assist them in ranking corners (at least I think that the touchdown they have him down for is that one; I can't think of any other touchdown he's surrendered.)

But again, I love Sheldon Brown from the viewings I've had of him this season and the previous few. Physical, smart, good speed and very, very tough.

Sniper
12-05-2009, 11:45 AM
Trust me, I love Leon as well. He was really good at UM and I always keep up with former Wolverines. I just feel like Sheldon doesn't get half the credit he deserves.

msolimani
12-05-2009, 12:19 PM
It really comes down to preference between Revis, Woodson, and Asomugha. You can't go wrong either way and could make an argument for either to be the best. Revis is just amazing at erasing the teams best WR week after week and I've been saying he's the best for a while. Woodson is the biggest playmaker of the 3 which is what got him the Heisman back in college, and the fact that we are bringing up a Raider's player is enough to let you know how good Asomugha is.

katnip
12-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Like alot have said, Revis, Asomugha, Woodson (not my order).

I really thought Antonio Cromartie would be elite by now. All the physical tools. Any Chargers fans want to enlighten me on why he's not considered up there?

LonghornsLegend
12-05-2009, 01:21 PM
I really thought Antonio Cromartie would be elite by now. All the physical tools. Any Chargers fans want to enlighten me on why he's not considered up there?


Probably the same reason his cousin DRC isn't elite yet. Physical tools out of this world but mental lapses. I know Cro was hurt for awhile but he seems like he'll just make an amazing play here and there and get torched on consistent coverage. Brandon Marshall comes to mind as eating him alive on numerous occasions which should never happen. He just never developed and refined his game from what I saw, he relies on his athletic ability 99% of the time with no technique.


Same for DRC, he's not as bad, but he could still develop into an elite type of guy but he's nowhere close yet, he'll still get burned too often throughout the course of a game.

Job
12-05-2009, 01:38 PM
Probably the same reason his cousin DRC isn't elite yet. Physical tools out of this world but mental lapses. I know Cro was hurt for awhile but he seems like he'll just make an amazing play here and there and get torched on consistent coverage. Brandon Marshall comes to mind as eating him alive on numerous occasions which should never happen. He just never developed and refined his game from what I saw, he relies on his athetic ability 99% of the time with no technique.



sounds so much like DeAngelo Hall.

fenikz
12-05-2009, 02:19 PM
Honestly what game are you guys watching DRC is a beast

scottyboy
12-05-2009, 03:15 PM
so my Rutgers homerism makes me wrong when i'm DEFENDING a player from a RIVAL Pitt school?

oh, and I'm a Giants fan DEFENDING a Jets player. epic Buf fan fail

jimbo
12-05-2009, 03:56 PM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Johnathan Joseph has been the Bengals best corner this season. He was the last two seasons as well, though plagued by injuries and poor hands. He's been one of the league's three or four best in man coverage and has taken receivers out of games. His five interceptions have come from mostly good coverage, though the pick 6 vs. Pittsburgh was more him reading a miscommunication and keeping an eye on the Quarterback. J-Jo's hands have gotten much better this year, though we're still talking about a guy that has had about 5 or 6 legitimate Int chances go right through his hands. Leon Hall's very good, a bit more physical and can cover the bigger receivers, he has longer arms and makes plays on the ball. The duo does, however, sometimes struggle in zone coverage where the Bengals D often looks far too soft. We're not deep enough at CB, so teams that utilize 4 WR sets can give us fits (see: Houston).

Both these two are very good, challenging (but not quite up to) Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel as the top duo in football.

Not trying to call you out, or show you up here on your personal rankings, but I thought it may help to get some feedback from a Bengals fan that has gotten to see every game.

This was in ESPN Magazine a couple weeks ago, they're the numbers of Leon Hall's assignments this season. No idea how he's done since then, but I'm guessing since he's gone up against Oakland and Cleveland, he's probably done well.

1. Brandon Marshall (DEN)
Attempts: 2
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

2. Greg Jennings (GB)
Attempts: 4
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

3. Santonio Holmes (PIT)
Attempts: 3
Completions: 1
Yards: 18
TD: 0
YPA: 6.0

4. Braylon Edwards (CLE)
Attempts: 1
Completions: 0
Yards: 0
TD: 0
YPA: 0

5/9. Derrick Mason (BAL) (they combined the two games in the article)
Attempts: 4
Completions: 1
Yards: 12
TD: 0
YPA: 3.0

6. Andre Johnson (HOU)
Attempts: 6
Completions: 4
Yards: 39
TD: 0
YPA: 6.5

7. Devin Hester (CHI)
Attempts: 3
Completions: 2
Yards: 28
TD:0
YPA: 9.3

TOTAL
Attempts: 23
Completions: 8
Yards: 97
TD: 0
YPA: 4.2

alexthegr8
12-05-2009, 04:57 PM
so who was leon hall covering on marshall's 4 catches in that game? no one?

The Bengals don't have a player shadow a receiver. They feel comfortable with either corner going against any receiver, so they have them play one side of the field all game. Leon plays the right side, J Joe the left. Its the way Marvin prefers it.

Matthew Jones
12-05-2009, 05:24 PM
I'd go Charles Woodson #1, Revis #2, and Asomugha #3. Woodson is a little more well-rounded than Revis in my opinion because he can rush the passer, defend better against the run than pretty much anyone, press, drop into zone, man up on a defender...I would consider him a contender for defensive player of the year so far (54 tackles, 2 sacks, 7 INT, 4 FF, 11 PD, 2 TD.) Revis is just a phenomenal corner as well who has a pretty well-rounded game. His man coverage is a little better than Woodson's in my opinion. Asomugha is third because I think he benefits a lot from the rest of the Raiders mediocre defense - why throw at a good cornerback when you can throw at an average one? It's also very easy to run on the Raiders, and you can still involve your #1 wide receiver in a game because Asomugha does not move from the left side. He's not a guy who will follow a top receiver around the field.

tjsunstein
12-05-2009, 06:05 PM
It's also very easy to run on the Raiders, and you can still involve your #1 wide receiver in a game because Asomugha does not move from the left side. He's not a guy who will follow a top receiver around the field.

I respect the rest of your post but I wanted to pull out this tid bit. I think it's a very fair point. People use the defense a lot for Asomugha that he doesn't get thrown at very often but like you said, why would you?

He's not versatile enough to be considered the best cornerback. Throw the stats out of the window for a second. Why is it that Aso only stays on one side? Does he not feel comfortable on the other side? Was he always like this, earlier in his career and in college? It doesn't make sense to me as to why you wouldn't have your top WR cover the other team's number one recieving threat the whole game.

steel man
12-05-2009, 06:18 PM
it is hard to argue that he is not, but if he is not then Woodson would have to be

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2009, 06:22 PM
I respect the rest of your post but I wanted to pull out this tid bit. I think it's a very fair point. People use the defense a lot for Asomugha that he doesn't get thrown at very often but like you said, why would you?

He's not versatile enough to be considered the best cornerback. Throw the stats out of the window for a second. Why is it that Aso only stays on one side? Does he not feel comfortable on the other side? Was he always like this, earlier in his career and in college? It doesn't make sense to me as to why you wouldn't have your top WR cover the other team's number one recieving threat the whole game.
its because thats how the Raiders system works. thats how the played when woodson was there

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-05-2009, 06:46 PM
Ahem...

http://philatude.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/sheldon_brown.jpg

I've recognized his greatness since I had him on Madden 04.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-05-2009, 06:54 PM
its because thats how the Raiders system works. thats how the played when woodson was there

Actually, that's how lots of defenses work. As someone just mentioned, that's how the Bengals defense works too.

tjsunstein
12-05-2009, 07:03 PM
Doesn't make much sense to me is all.

HawkeyeFan
12-05-2009, 08:02 PM
And to think, I wanted him, Aaron Ross and Michael Griffin over Tye Hill. And what the Rams get? Tye Hill, FML.

I should start hacking into the Rams park and picking who I want, always turns out good/great.

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2009, 08:11 PM
And to think, I wanted him, Aaron Ross and Michael Griffin over Tye Hill. And what the Rams get? Tye Hill, FML.

I should start hacking into the Rams park and picking who I want, always turns out good/great.
Tye Hill wasnt even in their draft class

HawkeyeFan
12-05-2009, 08:12 PM
Tye Hill wasnt even in their draft class
Damn't, that was Adam Carriker, FML. I've got to re-do my entire rant.

Either way, I wanted Revis, not who we got.

sup3rdup3r
12-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Doesn't make much sense to me is all.

I don't see which part of that is confusing...

Aso is still this best, especially when taking all things in to consideration. Raiders play man-to-man coverage on just about every play, thats the defense they've played since the 70s and 80s and thats the defense they're going to continue to play until Al Davis dies. They have no pass rush, he gets very little safety help, and still shuts down his guy on a consistent basis. Teams do not throw in his direction anymore, they haven't thrown in his direction on a consistent basis since 06, the year he got 8 picks. Aso could make the same plays Revis makes if he played in that system. He really should have left the Raiders, they're pushing his career in to obscurity.

bernbabybern820
12-05-2009, 08:20 PM
I find it weird how Revis shut down all the best receivers in the game but allowed a lot of catches to the Titan receivers with Kerry Collins.

P-L
12-05-2009, 08:55 PM
Revis and Woodson are having better seasons, but if I had to pick one corner back for one game, I think I'll still take Asomugha because of his track record. I try not to overreact on a season-to-season basis, so I'd like to see Revis play at this level for one more season. Revis was very good his first two years and now is playing phenomenal. On the other hand, Asomugha was all-world the previous two years and is still elite this year. Revis has given up two touchdowns this year, which is the same amount of touchdowns that Asomugha has given up the past three years.

To me there is a difference between being the best in the game at your position and having the best season. I know some people will disagree, but that's how I feel. I think Revis is having the best season (as far as coverage goes) but I'll still take Nnamdi as the best at his position at least until next season.

For what it's worth, I thought Champ Bailey was still the best corner in the league after the 2007 season despite being outplayed by Asomugha that year.

Nitschke-Hawk
12-05-2009, 09:42 PM
This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.

gsorace
12-05-2009, 09:56 PM
I find it weird how Revis shut down all the best receivers in the game but allowed a lot of catches to the Titan receivers with Kerry Collins.

Justin Gage had 3 catches for 28 yards that game

619
12-05-2009, 10:15 PM
This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.

Bigger elite corners typically do and Nnamdi has done so for as long as I can remember. The year of Nnamdi's breakout ('06) he had 8 INTs and since then no team has dared to test him. He can be a playmaker and he consistently makes plays in the backfield, just never was utilized creatively in our predictable defenses.

Sniper
12-05-2009, 10:26 PM
This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team.

No, Jason Witten. You may not have a touchdown against Charles Woodson (PBHN). He will now be taking His ball back.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-05-2009, 10:51 PM
This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team. Can anybody name a more versatile Cornerback in the last ten years? Nah. I think Charles and Rod Woodson were separated at birth.

To be fair, this isn't unheard of for Nnamdi. Last year, in the home game against Kansas City, Oakland did peel Nnamdi off the left side of the defense to cover Tony Gonzalez because Gonzalez was absolutely killing the defense. And to KC's credit, they kept tossing the ball to Gonzalez and he was able to block out Asomugha and make great catches.

This was during the period of last season when Chris Johnson was just killing it though. He had just come off an amazing game versus Denver, so Oakland felt it had more versatility to let Aso play inside.

bernbabybern820
12-05-2009, 10:57 PM
Justin Gage had 3 catches for 28 yards that game

If i remember correctly another receiver or two caught a pass off of him. It really stuck out to me because for a small period of time Kerry Collins kept on throwing at him in consecutive plays.

phlysac
12-05-2009, 10:59 PM
This year Charles Woodson has been covering Tight Ends if they're the "best receiver" on the opposing team.

Guess he should've been covering Vernon Davis then.

6 receptions - 108 yards - 1 touchdown.

tjsunstein
12-05-2009, 11:11 PM
Guess he should've been covering Vernon Davis then.

6 receptions - 108 yards - 1 touchdown.

He did for a lot of the game. I remember Davis making a play on one of our linebackers for a TD and on Jarrett Bush. Don't recall any catches he made on Woodson, however. He was lined up on Davis a lot.

derza222
12-05-2009, 11:20 PM
If i remember correctly another receiver or two caught a pass off of him. It really stuck out to me because for a small period of time Kerry Collins kept on throwing at him in consecutive plays.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's accurate. I remember being baffled as well. He also gave up a long TD to Ginn, which probably sounds worse than it was because Ginn is a burner, but still. Regardless he's been tremendous this year. Great in coverage, he's able to get the pick most of the time if he's in position, and he's solid in run support if not at Woodson's level.

He's the majority of the reason that this defense has been playing so well and has the option to blitz so much. I'd love to see the team with a more consistent corner across from him. Still surprising he gets thrown at so much given the struggles everybody has had on the other side.

BigBanger
12-06-2009, 01:52 AM
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Johnathan Joseph has been the Bengals best corner this season. He was the last two seasons as well, though plagued by injuries and poor hands. He's been one of the league's three or four best in man coverage and has taken receivers out of games. His five interceptions have come from mostly good coverage, though the pick 6 vs. Pittsburgh was more him reading a miscommunication and keeping an eye on the Quarterback. J-Jo's hands have gotten much better this year, though we're still talking about a guy that has had about 5 or 6 legitimate Int chances go right through his hands. Leon Hall's very good, a bit more physical and can cover the bigger receivers, he has longer arms and makes plays on the ball. The duo does, however, sometimes struggle in zone coverage where the Bengals D often looks far too soft. We're not deep enough at CB, so teams that utilize 4 WR sets can give us fits (see: Houston).

Both these two are very good, challenging (but not quite up to) Sheldon Brown and Asante Samuel as the top duo in football.

Not trying to call you out, or show you up here on your personal rankings, but I thought it may help to get some feedback from a Bengals fan that has gotten to see every game.
In all honesty, I had Joseph in and out of the top 10. I could plug him in there right after Brown and feel comfortable with that. With that said, as someone who has seen multiple Bengal's game (my best friend is a fan and we watch most of their games together), Leon Hall has outperformed just about each and every game, and Joseph has been staggeringly improved this year (like you said with the hands). I also threw that list together. Jabari Greer probably deserves to be up there (maybe quite high on that list). Brandon Flowers (love this kid) and Tracy Porter should be in the discussion. I know everyone shits on DeAngelo Hall, but he's a near perfect fit in Washington and he's been very good this year (over the last 6 or 7 weeks, I bet no corner in the NFL has given up less yards than him, thats including Nnamdi Asomugha). Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie could also make the top 10 list. Leigh Bodden has had an excellent season. Richard Marshall is having a very good season. Aqib Talib is having a great season and he looks like he's going to be one of the better corners in the NFL in a couple of years, and I might go as far to say that he looks like the most talented corner in the game.

After thinking about it a bit more, I'd rank the top 10 corners like this:

1. Charles Woodson, Green Bay
2. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
3. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
4. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
5. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
6. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
7. Jabari Greer, New Orleans
8. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
9. Corey Webster, New York Giants
10. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs

Anyway, Leon Hall is one of the best and most complete corners in the game. He is better against the run than Joseph and he's a better all around cover corner, and I've seen him in tighter coverage and giving up a lot less yards through the air and a lot less receptions.

The only TD Hall gave up all year was a TD catch by Steve Slaton, where Hall was matched up against him on the outside, the Texans in a 4 WR set as you said. They threw the WR screen (Slaton) to the far side of the field and Kevin Walter blocked down on Hall and the safety, I want to say it was Crocker, came down hard and ended up getting blocked out of the play by Duane Brown (who made a phenomenal block since he had to go a long way to get there). Once Crocker got blocked, Slaton was in the open field and Hall simply didn't have the speed to catch him from behind. That's the TD credited against him (If you really look at though, it's hard to blame him for Crocker's missed tackle). Both Hall and Crocker were 7 to 10 yards off the LOS. It was the perfect play call against the perfect defense to run it against. Most OTs don't have the athleticism to get out on the edge that fast. It was a great play by Brown. If you take that play out and don't count it against him (since it really wasn't his fault since he was engaged by the slot WR and not the original WR he was in coverage against), then he was pretty damn good in that game and he held Andre Johnson in check... giving up one 15 yard play where Johnson was working out of the slot and beat him on a deep crossing pattern, which is pretty hard to defend. You give Johnson one-on-one coverage, working out of the slot and the whole field to work with? Yeah, he's probably gonna beat any CB he faces.

Both guys have looked their worse against Massaquoi early in the year, but they came back shut him down in the second meeting.

I know the Bengal's pretty well. Andrew Witworth should probably get some serious Pro Bowl consideration. Joe Thomas, Jared Gaither and Andrew Witworth are three of the very best LTs in the game. Max Straks has been very good this year as well.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's accurate. I
remember being baffled as well. He also gave up a long TD to Ginn, which probably sounds worse than it was because Ginn is a burner, but still. Regardless he's been tremendous this year. Great in coverage, he's able to get the pick most of the time if he's in position, and he's solid in run support if not at Woodson's level.

He's the majority of the reason that this defense has been playing so well and has the option to blitz so much. I'd love to see the team with a more consistent corner across from him. Still surprising he gets thrown at so much given the struggles everybody has had on the other side.
Revis had one of his worst game of the season against Tennessee (It wasn't that bad, but since it was Collins and TEN, the 5 or 6 catches he gave up was surprising since he holds guys like Andre Johnson and Rany Moss to 4 catches consistently... he owns Moss like a pimp does a *****). Britt beat him as well a few times, one long play of over 20 yards. He had good coverage but Collins ball placement was surprisingly pinpoint that day. He must have given up 5 or 6 catches to three receivers. Gage didn't do **** against him. A couple of short passes for probably 5 yards total.

Everyone talks about the Ginn TD, but Revis was actually in zone, looking at the QB and reading his eyes the whole time, Ginn ran a slugo and Revis pushed him inside, giving him up to the safety (Rhodes), but the safety sucked up to the line on the PA and was out of position. Revis was actually guarding against the corner to the deep third of the field (which he had responsibility for-- the deep third and the safety, the deep middle, the other CB the other deep third). Revis was reading the QB so well that he was actually so close to Ginn that it looked like he was in man coverage when he wasn't (he was also aware that the safety was out of position). It was a blown assignment by the safety, but Revis gets the credit for it. He was dominate that game like he is just about every other game. If you go back and watch it, you see Revis put his hands on Ginn, nudge him inside, then virtually let him go, passing him off to the safety. He literally turns his head all the way around and slows up, then instantly sees Henne looking deep, there was no receiver coming underneath (into his zone), so he tried to catch up to Ginn and make a play since he knew the play was going over-the-top.

Day One Pick
12-06-2009, 02:54 AM
mine...

1. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
2. Charles Woodson, Green Bay Packers
3. Jonathan Joseph, Cincinnati Bengals
4. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
5. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
6. Jabari Greer, New Orleans Saints
7. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
8. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Antoine Winfield, Minnesota Vikings
10. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
11. Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville Jaguars
12. Leigh Bodden, New England Patriots
13. Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee Titans
14. Terrance Newman, Dallas Cowboys
15. Richard Marshall, Carolina Panthers
16. Nate Clements, San Francisco 49ers
17. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs
18. Quentin Jammer, San Diego Chargers
19. Antonio Cromartie, San Diego Chargers
20. Andre Goodman, Denver Broncos
21. Corey Webster, New York Giants
22. Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers
23. Al Harris, Green Bay Packers
24. Drayton Florence, Buffalo Bills
25. Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears
26. Eric Wright, Cleveland Browns
27. Aqib Talib, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
28. DeAngelo Hall, Washington Redskins
29. Dom Rodgers-Cromartie, Arizona Cardinals
30. Terrell Thomas, New York Giants
31. Dunta Robinson, Houston Texans
32. Marcus Trufant, Seattle Seahawks

UKfan
12-06-2009, 05:23 AM
mine...

1. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
2. Charles Woodson, Green Bay Packers
3. Jonathan Joseph, Cincinnati Bengals
4. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
5. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
6. Jabari Greer, New Orleans Saints
7. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
8. Sheldon Brown, Philadelphia Eagles
9. Antoine Winfield, Minnesota Vikings
10. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
11. Rashean Mathis, Jacksonville Jaguars
12. Leigh Bodden, New England Patriots
13. Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee Titans
14. Terrance Newman, Dallas Cowboys
15. Richard Marshall, Carolina Panthers
16. Nate Clements, San Francisco 49ers
17. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City Chiefs
18. Quentin Jammer, San Diego Chargers
19. Antonio Cromartie, San Diego Chargers
20. Andre Goodman, Denver Broncos
21. Corey Webster, New York Giants
22. Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers
23. Al Harris, Green Bay Packers
24. Drayton Florence, Buffalo Bills
25. Charles Tillman, Chicago Bears
26. Eric Wright, Cleveland Browns
27. Aqib Talib, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
28. DeAngelo Hall, Washington Redskins
29. Dom Rodgers-Cromartie, Arizona Cardinals
30. Terrell Thomas, New York Giants
31. Dunta Robinson, Houston Texans
32. Marcus Trufant, Seattle Seahawks

Kelvin Hayden gets no love, Cover 2 or no Cover 2, the man can ball. Perhaps it is the injury, or the homer in me, but I definitely think I would put him in over at the very least Marcus Trufant.

Day One Pick
12-06-2009, 07:13 AM
Kelvin Hayden gets no love, Cover 2 or no Cover 2, the man can ball. Perhaps it is the injury, or the homer in me, but I definitely think I would put him in over at the very least Marcus Trufant.

Yeah you're right. I just forgot about him.

Gay Ork Wang
12-06-2009, 07:28 AM
i think corey webster deserves to be higher than someone like Cromartie

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2009, 09:15 AM
I think it's useless for someone to make a top 25+ list for corners IMO, who honestly sees enough of each corner to know where they rank and how well they have played each week. Besides, both of the Cincy corners aren't better then Aso anyway.

umphrey
12-06-2009, 09:17 AM
I thought Tramon Williams would be on that list. He is a good cover corner with great athleticism. I thought I should bring his name up because he is a good young corner worth knowing about that very few fans have heard of, but I have a hard time comparing the middle tier corners and can't say decisively who he's better than.

Day One Pick
12-06-2009, 09:21 AM
I think it's useless for someone to make a top 25+ list for corners IMO, who honestly sees enough of each corner to know where they rank and how well they have played each week. Besides, both of the Cincy corners aren't better then Aso anyway.

Well it's not for any official use, so I figured it would be ok to wing it a little. I doubt too many watch enough to answer the original question of this topic. I had 15 I wanted to put in the top 10, and then just went a little further. I do watch quite a bit though and do a lot of research.

Day One Pick
12-06-2009, 09:23 AM
I thought Tramon Williams would be on that list. He is a good cover corner with great athleticism. I thought I should bring his name up because he is a good young corner worth knowing about that very few fans have heard of, but I have a hard time comparing the middle tier corners and can't say decisively who he's better than.

It is so subjective. There's probably 10 or 15 players that could be argued to be on that list.

CLong4Heisman
12-06-2009, 09:50 AM
Revis had one of his worst game of the season against Tennessee (It wasn't that bad, but since it was Collins and TEN, the 5 or 6 catches he gave up was surprising since he holds guys like Andre Johnson and Rany Moss to 4 catches consistently... he owns Moss like a pimp does a *****). Britt beat him as well a few times, one long play of over 20 yards. He had good coverage but Collins ball placement was surprisingly pinpoint that day. He must have given up 5 or 6 catches to three receivers. Gage didn't do **** against him. A couple of short passes for probably 5 yards total.

Everyone talks about the Ginn TD, but Revis was actually in zone, looking at the QB and reading his eyes the whole time, Ginn ran a slugo and Revis pushed him inside, giving him up to the safety (Rhodes), but the safety sucked up to the line on the PA and was out of position. Revis was actually guarding against the corner to the deep third of the field (which he had responsibility for-- the deep third and the safety, the deep middle, the other CB the other deep third). Revis was reading the QB so well that he was actually so close to Ginn that it looked like he was in man coverage when he wasn't (he was also aware that the safety was out of position). It was a blown assignment by the safety, but Revis gets the credit for it. He was dominate that game like he is just about every other game. If you go back and watch it, you see Revis put his hands on Ginn, nudge him inside, then virtually let him go, passing him off to the safety. He literally turns his head all the way around and slows up, then instantly sees Henne looking deep, there was no receiver coming underneath (into his zone), so he tried to catch up to Ginn and make a play since he knew the play was going over-the-top.[/QUOTE]

Collins was 15-37 for 170 with 2 picks including 13 straight incompletions to end the game. So if Revis did give up 5 completions, they were all in either the first half or the first half of the 3rd quarter.

wicket
12-06-2009, 10:02 AM
For those making rankings. (not top 10 but bigger ones) please have respect for tracy porter, the guy is a great baller, to bad he gets injured easily

Nitschke-Hawk
12-06-2009, 05:20 PM
Guess he should've been covering Vernon Davis then.

6 receptions - 108 yards - 1 touchdown.

Yep he was, that was his worst game coverage wise. VD really used his athleticism over the middle that game.

Nitschke-Hawk
12-06-2009, 05:24 PM
Bigger elite corners typically do and Nnamdi has done so for as long as I can remember. The year of Nnamdi's breakout ('06) he had 8 INTs and since then no team has dared to test him. He can be a playmaker and he consistently makes plays in the backfield, just never was utilized creatively in our predictable defenses.

I was using that argument mainly against Revis. I remember watching the end of the Raiders/Bengals game I actually was in awe of how big Nnamdi is. I use to think he was really skinny. Man he'd be perfect in Green Bay, I was mad you guys re-signed him.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
I was using that argument mainly against Revis. I remember watching the end of the Raiders/Bengals game I actually was in awe of how big Nnamdi is. I use to think he was really skinny. Man he'd be perfect in Green Bay, I was mad you guys re-signed him.

Remember, Aso played safety in his last year at Cal. I fully expect that we're going to see him change to FS later in his career like Rod Woodson did.

tjsunstein
12-06-2009, 10:58 PM
Yep he was, that was his worst game coverage wise. VD really used his athleticism over the middle that game.

Did either of you guys watch the San Francisco game? I mean after claiming that it was his worst game of coverage, you would think that he was actually covering Davis on the plays he got the ball but the highlights beg to differ.

(10:42) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass deep middle to V.Davis for 24 yard TOUCHDOWN.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146b9e9/Vernon-Davis-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Packers-2009

Clay Matthews with the coverage underneath here and Jarrett Bush with the "help."

(8:53) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass deep middle to V.Davis to GB 28 for 29 yards
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146b9d6/Vernon-Davis-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Packers-2009

Jarrett Bush with the "coverage."

(13:08) (Shotgun) A.Smith pass deep middle to V.Davis to GB 36 for 32 yards
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146b9be/Vernon-Davis-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Packers-2009

Woodson clearly blitzes meaning he isn't liable for Vernon.

So that right there is 3 of his 6 catches for 85 yards and a TD leaving another 3 catches for 23 yards unaccounted for in the highlights. If I were to rewatch the game, I'm sure I could defend Woodson on those 3 catches but I think I've made my point.

msolimani
12-07-2009, 04:21 PM
If I'm a GM and you're asking me to pick one, I think the answer is easy. You have Woodson who is still playing at a high level, but he cant do it forever and his cap number is high. Asomugha is in his prime and a strong case could be made for him to be #1 but he is the highest priced defensive back in league history so even if he is the best I go with the cheaper guys since they are all so close. And then there's Revis, who I also think happens to be the best talent of the three. He probably hasn't even entered his prime yet, is the youngest of the three and is the cheapest of the three.

BigBanger
12-07-2009, 04:23 PM
I actually saw the 49ers / Packers game and Woodson didn't give up a catch all day. He did cover Davis on occasion and when he did, he was all over him. He did not give up a single catch that day... to anyone. It was one of his best games this year coverage wise. Far from his worst... anyone who says otherwise is talking out their ass.

He was phenomenal against Detroit and outside of the short TD catch he gave up to Calvin Johnson, he held him to 2 catches for 10 yards, 1 TD, but he also caught as many passes as Johnson did with 2 INTs and got him back with a TD return of his own. That was one of his better games I've seen of him, but he's had very few bad games. The Cincy game in week 2 where he and Harris shut Chad Johnson down to nothing was a great performance even though Coles beat him for a short TD early in the game, but he came back with 2 INTs, returned one for a TD and returned the other deep into Cincy territory.

Woodson's worst game was against Chicago in week 1. He gave up a 65 yard catch to Johnny Knox where Knox ran right by him while he was looking in the backfield. Hester beat him as well for a big gainer. I can't remember, but I think he was beat by someone else (some garbage player who I can't think of). That was by far his worst game of the season. Every game since week 1, Woodson has been a beast and the best corner in the NFL. Not because he's shut everyone down (including some of the best TEs in the game like Davis, Witten and Winslow), but he's also forcing turnovers and playing great against the run. The most complete and most versatile corner in the game. He's been the most underrated corner for the last couple years and the all talk of moving him to safety made little sense.

He does struggle with speed... Knox, Hester, Harvin... those guys have made big plays against him.

Collins was 15-37 for 170 with 2 picks including 13 straight incompletions to end the game. So if Revis did give up 5 completions, they were all in either the first half or the first half of the 3rd quarter.
I'm aware Collins is a terrible QB, but whenever he threw a pass towards Revis while in coverage, he put the ball in a perfect spot. Revis was right on the hips of his receivers, and Collins was putting the ball right on the money (he nearly broke up multiple throws that went for catches). I can't say when they were given up as I don't remember the game that well. He did give up quite a few catches though.

SeanTaylorRIP
12-07-2009, 05:06 PM
I had to lol at seeing Deangelo Hall's name on a list of 32 CB's and it wasn't a list of the 32 worst CB's.

jimbo
12-07-2009, 08:13 PM
so who was leon hall covering on marshall's 4 catches in that game? no one?

Jon Joseph was likely covering Marshall on those plays. Cincy's corners don't shadow receivers, much like how Nnamdi only plays one side of the field in Oakland.

CC.SD
12-07-2009, 09:32 PM
Remember, Aso played safety in his last year at Cal. I fully expect that we're going to see him change to FS later in his career like Rod Woodson did.

Woooo let's pop the champagne bottle on the "Aso is a safety" ship, glad to hear about it, I support making this move as soon as possible.

BigBanger
12-07-2009, 11:04 PM
Woodson just had the worst game of the season... gave up one catch for 7 yards to Derek Mason.

yo123
12-07-2009, 11:16 PM
Woodson just had the worst game of the season... gave up one catch for 7 yards to Derek Mason.



Ummmmm....no?

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=W&playerid=330&group=7

CC.SD
12-07-2009, 11:30 PM
Ummmmm....no?

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=W&playerid=330&group=7

http://www.briansprayberry.com/wp-content/images/blog/Oh%20Yeah.jpg

Saints-Tigers
12-07-2009, 11:33 PM
I love watching CB debates, where everyone scrambles to say "NO HE WASNT COVERING THAT GUY IN THAT GAME!!!"

BaLLiN
12-07-2009, 11:35 PM
Woodson is a beast, he fully deserves MVP honors IMO

yo123
12-07-2009, 11:39 PM
I love watching CB debates, where everyone scrambles to say "NO HE WASNT COVERING THAT GUY IN THAT GAME!!!"


No one's number 1 CB has given up a catch all season. This is a known fact.

CC.SD
12-07-2009, 11:40 PM
No one's number 1 CB has given up a catch all season. This is a known fact.

Jammer did but he forced a fumble right after.

Supporting Caste
12-08-2009, 12:04 AM
Nnamdi is not the best. He just isn't.

Guys better than Nnamdi:

Revis
Charles Woodson
Sheldon Brown

BigBanger
12-08-2009, 12:05 AM
Ummmmm....no?

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=W&playerid=330&group=7
Well, I was joking, and those stats are not 100% accurate...

Woodson didn't allow a catch to anybody against SF and he certainly wasn't covering Gore. That was a blown coverage by a LB as Gore snuck out of the backfield and no one picked him up. His numbers are much better than that, especially with passes defended, which is way off.

fenikz
12-08-2009, 12:10 AM
Ummmmm....no?

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=W&playerid=330&group=7

i like your site, DRC is the #2 cover corner in the NFL

Supporting Caste
12-08-2009, 12:58 AM
DRC? LOL

Dude.

TitanHope
12-08-2009, 01:04 AM
DRC? LOL

Dude.

DRC is legit. Top 2 is a stretch, but he's been dynamite everytime I've seen him play this season. Lays the wood too, which surprised me.

Supporting Caste
12-08-2009, 01:06 AM
He got his ass handed to him at least a couple times this year (like, SMOKED). I can't remember which games. I'll get back to you if I feel compelled.

Someone else must know what i'm talking about.

yo123
12-08-2009, 01:11 AM
i like your site, DRC is the #2 cover corner in the NFL



No. He's not. Their rankings are beyond awful.

Jason Snelling, Ladell Betts, Jamaal Charles, and Justin Forsett are in their top 15 RB's

Nnamdi is their 43rd ranked CB

Tully Banta Cain is their 3rd ranked 3-4 OLB

David Garrard is their 6th best QB

Do I need to keep going?

I only used it to show that Woodson has allowed more than 1 catch in a game this year. (Which I guess he was kidding about)

Stranger
12-08-2009, 01:18 AM
He got his ass handed to him at least a couple times this year (like, SMOKED). I can't remember which games. I'll get back to you if I feel compelled.

Someone else must know what i'm talking about.

Pretty much Manning made him his ***** but other than that he has been very good. Not second best CB in the league good though.

TitanHope
12-08-2009, 01:25 AM
Pretty much Manning made him his ***** but other than that he has been very good. Not second best CB in the league good though.

Manning does that to quite a few CB's though. ;)

In other news, I <3 Cortland Finnegan.

fenikz
12-08-2009, 02:01 AM
is homerism a new concept to people or something? i thought that was the building block of this site

btw i think this was the same site that told me Rod Hood was a top 3 CB

TitanHope
12-08-2009, 02:07 AM
is homerism a new concept to people or something? i thought that was the building block of this site

It is, but the foundation is saying stuff without being able to back it up.

njx would know for sure. I really can't keep track of it...

Stranger
12-08-2009, 02:26 AM
is homerism a new concept to people or something? i thought that was the building block of this site

btw i think this was the same site that told me Rod Hood was a top 3 CB

What I meant by "Not second best CB in the league good" was that he is clearly the best CB in the league ;)

scottyboy
12-08-2009, 09:34 AM
is homerism a new concept to people or something? i thought that was the building block of this site

btw i think this was the same site that told me Rod Hood was a top 3 CB

I will teach you the ways to effective homerism fenikz. Follow my ways. <3

McCourty>>>Revis and Woodson together

irishbucsfan
12-08-2009, 06:04 PM
What do people think of Talib?

jimbo
12-08-2009, 07:06 PM
What do people think of Talib?

Will be top five corner in a few years if he keeps his head in it. Incredibly talented corner.

LonghornsLegend
12-08-2009, 07:15 PM
Will be top five corner in a few years if he keeps his head in it. Incredibly talented corner.

Top five? That's a huge stretch to say the least. I loved Talib coming out, but he had to go to a cover 2/heavy zone team to suceed at the next level so he obviously had the perfect team draft him. Still I don't trust him if you want him to play alot of man to man, or with his back to the QB just like I didn't out of the draft. He has to be facing the QB to read the QB and the routes which he's great at ala Asante Samuel, he's also a play-maker and can make plays on the ball in the air.


Still he has got to show me he's improved his man coverage skills to be anything close to top 5, he is incredibly talented no doubt and people have brought up a few times how good that corner class is.



His off the field stuff is very troubling though, it's way more then I'd like to hear for a guy so young, not sure this is something that won't follow him around, there were concerns about these sorts of things and he's done nothing but add more fuel to the fire with more then one instance.

umphrey
12-09-2009, 11:30 AM
Talib = Good but never great, and still has some potential to live up to to get there.

Splat
12-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Talib = Good but never great, and still has some potential to live up to to get there.


I think it is going to end up being a pretty good draft class for CB's Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie,Aqib Talib and Brandon Flowers to name a few.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:03 PM
Mike Jenkins may be the top corner out of that draft right now. Depending upon how highly one values DRC, since a lot of people are mixed on him. At this very moment, Jenkins is playing better than the rest of the class.

Gay Ork Wang
12-09-2009, 12:08 PM
i dont think Mike Jenkins is so much better than Talib, Flowers, DRC. McKelvin but thats due to injury, considering that Jenkins has like DeMarcus Ware rushing the passer.

Splat
12-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Mike Jenkins may be the top corner out of that draft right now. Depending upon how highly one values DRC, since a lot of people are mixed on him. At this very moment, Jenkins is playing better than the rest of the class.

He also has better players around him I would have no problem sticking with Flowers out of his draft class.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:14 PM
Flowers has been exposed a bit this year. Talib and DRC are strong players but, Jenkins has still outperformed them. The gap may not be substantial but, I'd certainly say he's still the best of the three, right now.

Gay Ork Wang
12-09-2009, 12:15 PM
Flowers has been exposed a bit this year. Talib and DRC are strong players but, Jenkins has still outperformed them. The gap may not be substantial but, I'd certainly say he's still the best of the three, right now.
how has he outperformed them?

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:17 PM
He also has better players around him I would have no problem sticking with Flowers out of his draft class.

Meh. He's exceptional in man and it's not like he's getting any help. The rest of the Dallas secondary has been mediocre this year. And regardless of the pass rush, he's still seeing good passes come his way. He's been a lock down guy and is pro bowl worthy, imo.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:20 PM
how has he outperformed them?

He doesnt give up anything, literally anything. He's our shining star in a secondary shrouded in mediocrity. I dont know how much you've been able to tune in to Dallas games but, you should check him out again, whenever the opportunity may rise. He has elevated his game by leaps and bounds. Really it seemed like a confidence issue more than anything but, he has been a legitimate lock down corner.

Gay Ork Wang
12-09-2009, 12:21 PM
He doesnt give up anything, literally anything. He's our shining star in a secondary shrouded in mediocrity. I dont know how much you've been able to tune in to Dallas games but, you should check him out again, whenever the opportunity may rise. He has elevated his game by leaps and bounds. Really it seemed like a confidence issue more than anything but, he has been a legitimate lock down corner.
no i havent seen a lot, i just wondered how he outperform him, like an argument for him and against the others.

Splat
12-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Flowers has been exposed a bit this year.

He has the worst set of safetys in the league working next to him and close to zero pass rush.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:31 PM
Yeah and well, that sucks but he's not without blame. He's been susceptible to the big play. I like Flowers but, he hasnt been all that great this year. You could place some blame on supporting cast but, not all. I think he'll be just fine but, it's not like the others have amazing safety help over the top either. It gets a little tougher to evaluate, given your team's overall talent but, I'd still put him behind all three of the others.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:37 PM
i was extremely unimpressed by him this week. i'm trying to remember the circumstances, but he got abused on a pass to the end zone, manning just threw the ball poorly. then, jenkins (after what i thought was a clear interference), got up and started dancing, like he hadn't just completely failed to make any sort of play or cover his man properly.

*shrug* obviously it's anecdotal and no, i'm not judging him based off of one play (it just makes for a good example), but i didn't see anything worth writing home about.

lol. Jenkins celebrates a lot. But that was the only time all game that he was actually "beaten", and it was a free play for the Giants. I'll admit though, that was a badly judged ball by Jenkins. He wasnt really beat exactly, he slowed for a pick and he wasnt even close. It could have ended badly. Other than that, he had a pass break up and another INT.

His entire body of work this season is awfully impressive. And the vast majority of the time, he is in perfect position.

P-L
12-09-2009, 12:43 PM
How is it that Mike Jenkins hasn't given up "anything" this year and Flowers "has been susceptible to the big play," yet both players have given up the same number of touchdowns?

Granted, Jenkins has been having the better year overall but it's actually pretty close. Jenkins has a better completion percentage against and qb rating against but both have the same yards/completion against. It's not like Jenkins is locking down every single receiver and Flowers is getting abused on a regular basis.

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 12:54 PM
Not every big play leads to a TD. And the majority of completions on Jenkins are for short gains. Rarely do we see him give up much on intermediate or deep routes.

In regard to Flowers...that whole secondary has been bad this year. So, I didnt want to be too tough on him, I agree he doesnt get beaten like a dead horse or anything. And I do still hold him in pretty high regard but in comparison to the rest, he hasnt been as good this year. He has, as well as the others on the team, contributed negatively toward one of the league's worst pass defenses. There may not be such a substantial gap in between all of them but, I do believe that Jenkins is top dog at the moment.

As for CB stats, I've never been a fan. May sound like an excuse to like one player better than the other but, honestly...the best way, is to just watch a corner, imo. When you start bringing metrics into football, things tend to get messy, since it's a team sport with many variables...opposed to say baseball, where metrics can be relevant to individual player performance. Football metrics tend to be skewed and just dont work as well. Never been a fan.

Gay Ork Wang
12-09-2009, 01:01 PM
Not every big play leads to a TD. And the majority of completions on Jenkins are for short gains. Rarely do we see him give up much on intermediate or deep routes.

In regard to Flowers...that whole secondary has been bad this year. So, I didnt want to be too tough on him, I agree he doesnt get beaten like a dead horse or anything. And I do still hold him in pretty high regard but in comparison to the rest, he hasnt been as good this year. He has, as well as the others on the team, contributed negatively toward one of the league's worst pass defenses. There may not be such a substantial gap in between all of them but, I do believe that Jenkins is top dog at the moment.

As for CB stats, I've never been a fan. May sound like an excuse to like one player better than the other but, honestly...the best way, is to just watch a corner, imo. When you start bringing metrics into football, things tend to get messy, since it's a team sport with many variables...opposed to say baseball, where metrics can be relevant to individual player performance. Football metrics tend to be skewed and just dont work as well. Never been a fan.
how many Cardinals/Bucs/Chiefs games have you seen

M.O.T.H.
12-09-2009, 01:08 PM
how many Cardinals/Bucs/Chiefs games have you seen

Quite a lot actually...My father is a Cardinals fan. And I do have NFL Sunday Ticket. I'm a football fan who doesnt have much of a life...it's what I do. haha.

Also, I wasnt trying to say those who dont agree with me, havent seen the players in question enough. I was just saying when evaluating a corner, I think it's best to watch, instead of reading off one of those metric stat sheets/sites. It's just my opinion but, I think CB stats are a terrible way to judge the player's performance at that position. It's not that black and white in regard to the position.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
12-09-2009, 11:40 PM
First off, i'll be honest I only read the first 2 pages of this thread. I'll state that anyone who is debating Revis outside of #2 in the league is talking from their ass and not watching his play. I've seen every game this season and can honestly say i've never seen a CB play this well. He is the definition of an all-around CB. His closing speed is outstanding, he can cover both zone and man, he tackles very well both pass and run, and he has the hands to make the catch if you throw at him. I haven't seen enough Nnamdi this year to determine where he ranks VS Revis, but I'm hard pressed to believe he's playing as well as Revis.

I prefer not to hype Jets players to be viewed as homerish, but I feel strongly enough about Revis' play this season (and last) to say this with confidence. Generally I'll let his play do the talking (as he does).

If you throw #2 to Nnamdi you have to say Charles Woodson no worse than top 3, the guy has been outstanding the past two seasons. He deserves his share of DPOY consideration (as I believe Revis does). He's been special.


For those mentioning DRC, are you for real? He has not played nearly consistent enough to warrant such consideration based on what he's done so far this season or in his career. He has the natural ability in pass coverage, but has mental lapses and hasn't rounded out his game enough to be in this conversation.

Talib at the top of this page? Why did i waste time commenting on that?

Thumper
12-09-2009, 11:47 PM
First off, i'll be honest I only read the first 2 pages of this thread. I'll state that anyone who is debating Revis outside of #2 in the league is talking from their ass and not watching his play. I've seen every game this season and can honestly say i've never seen a CB play this well. He is the definition of an all-around CB. His closing speed is outstanding, he can cover both zone and man, he tackles very well both pass and run, and he has the hands to make the catch if you throw at him. I haven't seen enough Nnamdi this year to determine where he ranks VS Revis, but I'm hard pressed to believe he's playing as well as Revis.

Sounds just like Sheldon Brown.

Supporting Caste
12-10-2009, 12:06 AM
On Jenkins: He has easily been the best CB of that class so far. I wanted Flowers during that draft and didn't think Jenkins would be a whole lot but I was totally wrong. He's very good.

I still think Flowers will rule at some point but Jenkins has shown a lot more fire than he had a reputation for in college and his combination of size, recovery speed, press ability and ball skills rival just about anyone in the league.

He has a ways to go as far as technique but he has absolutely everything you need as far as talent goes to be one of the best in the league.

M.O.T.H.
12-10-2009, 12:10 AM
Since I never commented on it...my #1 corner in the league is Revis as well. I loooooove Revis' game, he is simply amazing.

dc22
12-10-2009, 06:47 AM
superman'

http://i521.photobucket.com/albums/w335/IMidwestIM/th_Movie_0008.jpg (http://s521.photobucket.com/albums/w335/IMidwestIM/?action=view&current=Movie_0008.flv)

senormysterioso
12-10-2009, 06:56 AM
I love Revis but Woodson is more than a great corner, he's a great football player. He lines up at nickel for us, safety sometimes, makes tackles on the sideline and in the backfield, gets sacks, obviously interceptions, the fumbles have been talked about.

The question is who best corner in the game, right now. You have to put aside that Woodson is 10 years older and look at what they bring to the field right now.

tjsunstein
12-10-2009, 07:06 AM
You can't go wrong with Revis or Woodson at 1a but the other has to be 1b.

I like how Mike Jenkins, Rodgers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib and Brandon Flowers are actually being discussed in a thread with a debate over the best corner in the game. lol.

M.O.T.H.
12-10-2009, 01:42 PM
You can't go wrong with Revis or Woodson at 1a but the other has to be 1b.

I like how Mike Jenkins, Rodgers-Cromartie, Aqib Talib and Brandon Flowers are actually being discussed in a thread with a debate over the best corner in the game. lol.

No one ever said they were the best in the game if you would read that again. We were talking about best in the draft class.

fenikz
12-10-2009, 02:52 PM
DRC is the best

DRCzzZZzzz

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NFC+Wild+Card+Game+Atlanta+Falcons+v+Arizona+d2oxD bImbkKl.jpg

TitleTown088
12-10-2009, 04:01 PM
DRC is the best

DRCzzZZzzz

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/NFC+Wild+Card+Game+Atlanta+Falcons+v+Arizona+d2oxD bImbkKl.jpg

Stop insulting Jordyzzz.

Mxh5pm2dzPA

Notice who he burnzzz at 4:05.

fenikz
12-10-2009, 04:11 PM
that was the moment he passed on the ZZzzzzZ to DRC

TitleTown088
12-10-2009, 04:39 PM
that was the moment he passed on the ZZzzzzZ to DRC

That's how it works huh?

http://www.impawards.com/1998/posters/fallen.jpg

Flyboy
12-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Jammer did but he forced a fumble right after.

LOL. Good one, sir.

tjsunstein
12-10-2009, 08:29 PM
No one ever said they were the best in the game if you would read that again. We were talking about best in the draft class.

Obviously but just noticing how a threads stray away from the original topic so drastically.

M.O.T.H.
12-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Rarely do our threads all stay on topic, not a big deal.

CC.SD
12-10-2009, 10:54 PM
Rarely do our threads all stay on topic, not a big deal.

Purple monkey dishwasher?

fenikz
12-10-2009, 11:22 PM
A talking monkey?

Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future, ugly sucker, only says "ficus".

A Perfect Score
12-10-2009, 11:23 PM
A talking monkey?

Talking monkey, yeah, yeah. Came here from the future, ugly sucker, only says "ficus".

Look up idiot in the dictionary, know what you'll find?

Crickett
12-11-2009, 12:15 AM
Rarely do our threads all stay on topic, not a big deal.

Honestly, who would want to watch a cartoon about a bunch of rap artists playing card games?

A Perfect Score
12-11-2009, 12:16 AM
Honestly, who would want to watch a cartoon about a bunch of rap artists playing card games?

Me...That is awesome.

BigBanger
12-11-2009, 01:07 AM
Look up idiot in the dictionary, know what you'll find?
The definition of the word idiot, which you clearly are.

Ya ******* idiot.

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 01:16 AM
The definition of the word idiot, which you clearly are.

Ya ******* idiot.

did we just get a kiss kiss bang bang reference, that is awesome.

A Perfect Score
12-11-2009, 06:51 AM
did we just get a kiss kiss bang bang reference, that is awesome.

We had several over the course of the page. And yes, it is indeed awesome.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
12-11-2009, 12:30 PM
I hate when this stuff happens. We have a good topic, about a sick player, and stupid Jordy Nelson conversation hijacks the thread.....

A Perfect Score
12-11-2009, 12:33 PM
I hate when this stuff happens. We have a good topic, about a sick player, and stupid Jordy Nelson conversation hijacks the thread.....

You forgot the zzz.

Splat
12-11-2009, 12:37 PM
That is Mr. Jordy Nelson to you.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 01:08 PM
They call me MR. zzzzzzz!!

MattyFos
12-11-2009, 06:56 PM
This would make a nice poll question. I'm throwing my hat into the Nnamdi Asomugha corner.

A Perfect Score
12-11-2009, 06:57 PM
I still vote for Champ Bailey.

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 07:01 PM
I still vote for Champ Bailey.

That is soooo 2007.

A Perfect Score
12-11-2009, 07:03 PM
That is soooo 2007.

I cant vote against a guy who's name is Champ.

Jokes aside, I think when healthy, hes still good enough to be considered Top 5. Hes excellent in run support, and while he doesnt take away half of the field like he used to, hes still excellent in all types of coverage. And I have his jersey!

tjsunstein
12-11-2009, 08:50 PM
Imagine if Jordyzzz played corner. He'd be the best cause he'd know what route the WR were gonna run.

Shiver
12-11-2009, 11:37 PM
This would make a nice poll question. I'm throwing my hat into the Nnamdi Asomugha corner.


Asomugha doesn't play on a good team or in a big market. He has been the most consistent and I would take him over anybody. Woodson for one big game maybe, Revis for the future, but overall Nnamdi just gets the job done.

Supporting Caste
12-11-2009, 11:54 PM
I know Miles Austin made mince meat out of Nnamdi, but he sure as hell didn't do that to Woodson.

Woodson and Revis are definitely better than Nnamdi, who is mostly living off reputation this year.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-12-2009, 12:00 AM
I know Miles Austin made mince meat out of Nnamdi, but he sure as hell didn't do that to Woodson.

Miles Austin almost exclusively lined up on the right side of the field and was covered by Chris Johnson.

In fact, if you watch Austin's highlights of the game, he made one catch against Asomugha in the first quarter then lined up either against Johnson or in the slot the rest of the game.

Supporting Caste
12-12-2009, 12:04 AM
That marks the second time this year Austin smoked Nnamdi. First time was in the preseason, when Nnamdi blatantly held Austin and the refs assumed Austin's jersey was getting pulled back because Nnamdi just ruled so much.

bigbuc
12-14-2009, 07:35 PM
Right now after week 14 Revis is the DPOY. No don't about it. Hands down. The best defensive back in football this year.

JF4
12-14-2009, 07:37 PM
Right now after week 14 Revis is the DPOY. No don't about it. Hands down. The best defensive back in football this year.

I got one hand up for my boy C-Dub.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 07:37 PM
Right now after week 14 Revis is the DPOY. No don't about it. Hands down. The best defensive back in football this year.

http://gregdooley.com/images/summer03/woodson.gif

Um, yeah, about that. Charles disagrees vehemently.

Splat
12-14-2009, 07:41 PM
Right now after week 14 Revis is the DPOY. No don't about it. Hands down. The best defensive back in football this year.

W-r-o-n-g Wrong Wrong Wrong.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-14-2009, 07:44 PM
Chuck "Norris" Woodson is straight pwning these bitches atm, he gets my vote for DPOY.

throwback54milkman
12-14-2009, 08:13 PM
i forgot Darrelle wasnt owning every receiver he plays

Paranoidmoonduck
12-14-2009, 08:14 PM
Right now after week 14 Revis is the DPOY. No don't about it. Hands down. The best defensive back in football this year.

Revis has played really well this year. Really well. But Woodson is many times more likely to walk away with the DPOY.

Splat
12-14-2009, 08:15 PM
i forgot Darrelle wasnt owning every receiver he plays

That is all well and good but Woodson is taking their lunch money buying him self something to eat and then making them watch as he eats it.

msolimani
12-14-2009, 08:18 PM
That is all well and good but Woodson is taking their lunch money buying him self something to eat and then making them watch as he eats it.

Hahahaha...very nice. Woodson's probably more likely to win DPOY over Revis because he's versatile and get TD returns. But it's hard for me to imagine a corner playing better than Revis is right now.

Mr.Regular
12-14-2009, 08:22 PM
Revis has a slight, actually very slight, edge on Woodson in coverage. But C-Dub's run stuffing ability, blitzing, versatility in lining up over the TE, playing some safety, and forcing a lot of turnovers tips him over the edge. The man does it all.

BufFan71
12-14-2009, 08:32 PM
i forgot Darrelle wasnt owning every receiver he plays

A jets fan...



im gonna assume u are gonna favor Revis a tiny bit more than the average fan

P-L
12-14-2009, 08:46 PM
i forgot Darrelle wasnt owning every receiver he plays
MyPtJF-IgPc

Sniper
12-14-2009, 08:47 PM
Ted Ginn isn't exactly Larry Fitzgerald either.

JETS5128
12-14-2009, 09:24 PM
MyPtJF-IgPc

1. There is no point to this debate. It's just michigan/packer fans versus jets fans. Neither side is going to change their argument

2. While Revis was beat on that play, it's pretty obvious that Leonhard and Rhodes were supposed to be playing 2 deep and got burned by the play action

Jvig43
12-14-2009, 09:31 PM
1. There is no point to this debate. It's just michigan/packer fans versus jets fans. Neither side is going to change their argument

2. While Revis was beat on that play, it's pretty obvious that Leonhard and Rhodes were supposed to be playing 2 deep and got burned by the play action

So Rex Ryan is lying when he says he lets Revis play without safety help?

Splat
12-14-2009, 10:24 PM
There is no point to this debate. It's just michigan/packer fans versus jets fans. Neither side is going to change their argument

Umm, alot of the people posting in this thread are not fans of any of those teams.

JETS5128
12-15-2009, 07:31 PM
Umm, alot of the people posting in this thread are not fans of any of those teams.

Look at the two posts above mine...

JETS5128
12-15-2009, 07:32 PM
So Rex Ryan is lying when he says he lets Revis play without safety help?

It was one play dude

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Look at the two posts above mine...
ZOMG ONE MICHIGAN HATES ON REVIS!

JETS5128
12-15-2009, 07:44 PM
weak. because there were TWO POSTS from michigan fans, the ENTIRE debate can be summarized as "jets fans vs. michigan/packers fans"? pathetic generalization and even more pathetic rationalization when you were called on it.

If you read through this thread there are alot more than "TWO POSTS!!!" from michigan fans. It's more like two posts per page

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2009, 07:54 PM
If you read through this thread there are alot more than "TWO POSTS!!!" from michigan fans. It's more like two posts per page
and there are a lot more than by just michigan and packers fans.

you just cant be serious

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-15-2009, 08:00 PM
Imagine if Jordyzzz played corner. He'd be the best cause he'd know what route the WR were gonna run.


That's not allowed. The NFL has STRICT regulations in place regarding the use of one Jordy Nelson. The city had to do a 3% tax increase just to pay the NFL enough to let him return kicks.

AlexDown
12-15-2009, 08:10 PM
1. There is no point to this debate. It's just michigan/packer fans versus jets fans. Neither side is going to change their argument

2. While Revis was beat on that play, it's pretty obvious that Leonhard and Rhodes were supposed to be playing 2 deep and got burned by the play action

Yep. Revis was playing zone coverage that play.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-16-2009, 02:14 AM
Yep. Revis was playing zone coverage that play.

Revis was playing something that could technically be called both zone and man. If Ginn had run a short slant, Revis wouldn't have followed him. Since Ginn ran a go, he was only ever Revis' responsibility.

Ginn was only ever in his zone, dictating that he cover him man-to-man. What happened is Ginn made a tiny move that made it look like he was going to break to the safeties, Revis let off the coverage, and Ginn kept running the go. Stopping running isn't usually viewed as a valid excuse. It was a blown coverage.

edit -

It's really not that big of a deal. Ginn is silly fast and Revis bit on a subtle fake. It happens.

ironman4579
12-16-2009, 07:15 AM
If you read through this thread there are alot more than "TWO POSTS!!!" from michigan fans. It's more like two posts per page

If it's two posts per page from Michigan fans, wouldn't that leave something like 250+ posts in this 11 page thread that are not from Michigan fans?