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sbh15
12-05-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure what the rules are on this speculative kind of thread, but I thought this was interesting:

But Carlos Sr. said Dunlap is only thinking about one thing right now – finishing his degree. Dunlap is on track to graduate next December.

“We came to the University of Florida for a four-year education,” Dunlap Sr. said. “He has another year in school to go. Everybody’s talking about the draft. We’re not talking about the draft. It’s never even been a thought. We as a family never even sat down and talked about leaving school.”

Link (http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gatorbytes/2009/12/03/carlos-dunlap-is-an-emotional-wreck-following-arrest-suspension)

Babylon
12-05-2009, 12:31 PM
He probably should, barring injury he might be able to elevate his stock again. Right now it's pretty much in freefall if you ask me.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 12:31 PM
I actually posted that article/link yesterday in the Carlos Dunlap thread, though I'm not sure anyone looked at it or took it seriously. Very interesting stuff, and we'll see how much he takes his family's opinion and education seriously. UF's a great school, and Dunlap's family doesn't seem to be in any kind of financial peril. Who knows at this point...

princefielder28
12-05-2009, 12:32 PM
After this past week I think it'd be a great decision for him to go back to school.

Shane P. Hallam
12-05-2009, 12:36 PM
It's fine since you have the link. It would be interesting if he returns.

sbh15
12-05-2009, 12:36 PM
I think simply making that decision could gain him a little more respect from draft analysts, especially with regards to showing that he's trying to get his head on straight.

He's talented as ****, and maybe with this last year he can finally put things together, but it's all speculation. That is pretty much the only evidence that Dunlap isn't leaving for the draft.

Shane P. Hallam
12-05-2009, 12:44 PM
As mentioned before, plenty of guys say this, but then get their draft grades back and have some people in their ear. LeSean McCoy comes to mind last year.

Hollywood
12-05-2009, 12:48 PM
The problem is right now he is just a college kid that just made one stupid mistake that a lot of college kids make; it probably won't affect his draft position that much, but make one more stupid mistake and all of a sudden you get a bad character label put on you.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 12:59 PM
The problem is right now he is just a college kid that just made one stupid mistake that a lot of college kids make; it probably won't affect his draft position that much, but make one more stupid mistake and all of a sudden you get a bad character label put on you.

Psshhh, I made that stupid mistake in high school. I still consider myself a solid character guy. I think Andre Smith's dealing with an agent is worse than this, as sometimes when you get drunk, you just end up in a driver's seat. It's not right, it's not good, but when people are drunk it sometimes happen. I know the guy had a lot on the line, but let's not pretend he had full decision-making capacity. For some guys, one time caught by the cops and you'll just have a mental block against it.

I really don't think a DUI is any measure of character, at all. My college roommate last year had two, my roommate this year has one, and I don't think my aunt can drive legally in Florida or New Jersey. Dunlap seems like a fine guy.

Babylon
12-05-2009, 01:04 PM
Psshhh, I made that stupid mistake in high school. I still consider myself a solid character guy. I think Andre Smith's dealing with an agent is worse than this, as sometimes when you get drunk, you just end up in a driver's seat. It's not right, it's not good, but when people are drunk it sometimes happen. I know the guy had a lot on the line, but let's not pretend he had full decision-making capacity. For some guys, one time caught by the cops and you'll just have a mental block against it.

I really don't think a DUI is any measure of character, at all. My college roommate last year had two, my roommate this year has one, and I don't think my aunt can drive legally in Florida or New Jersey. Dunlap seems like a fine guy.

Going to agree with you there, problem is there have been questions surrounding his game. If he didnt test all that well as far as strength and agility goes then you probably would have people adding on the DUI. If he blew the doors off the combine then i think those same people would give him a pass on the DUI.

CashmoneyDrew
12-05-2009, 01:04 PM
You think someone dealing with an agent under the table is worse than someone driving piss drunk?

initial_flo
12-05-2009, 01:14 PM
He probably should, barring injury he might be able to elevate his stock again. Right now it's pretty much in freefall if you ask me.

The guy is a beast, there's no way his stock would free fall unless something drastic happened again before the draft at some point.

All he has to do is drop a few cliches and say he's learned from this experience and he's a Raiders or better pick IMO.

Anyway,

I still don't get the coming back thing (and I posted this in another thread) but if you have a top 20 lottery ticket (his is even better) go and cash it now. Another year of education way way overrated when you have the means to go be rich right now.

You can go back to school whenever you want anyway.

FUNBUNCHER
12-05-2009, 01:20 PM
His DUI isn't my main problem with Dunlap, his inconsistent play on the field however is, for a 6'6, 290 # DE who should be beasting the SEC.

Why sign a guy like Dunlap to a $20 mil signing bonus when his play has already flatlined at UF??
I'm not saying he isn't still a 1st round prospect based strictly on potential, just that he's not even close to being a top 10 draft pick.

Another year, barring injury, should do wonders for Dunlap's pro prospects.

Nalej
12-05-2009, 01:42 PM
You think someone dealing with an agent under the table is worse than someone driving piss drunk?

Exactly. I think it should raise an eyebrow.
How is dealing with an agent worse then getting wasted and then getting behind the wheel and potentially killing yourself or worst- someone else.
If you're going to drink- you know you're not going to be able to drive-
and if you do that without a plan on how to get home then you're a moron.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 01:43 PM
You think someone dealing with an agent under the table is worse than someone driving piss drunk?

No, but I think it's more telling about a football player's character. Andre Smith's agent business was him doing something he knew was wrong, he knew it could get him in trouble, he had full capacity, he got caught looking forward to the money, and it was all on the eve on the biggest game of his career.

Carlos Dunlap got drunk and wound up driving a car, a very bad decision, but not one he likely made before he had his first drink. Maybe he did, but I'm not so sure. He didn't think it through, and he made a mistake. Andre Smith's mistake was more damaging to his team, and not just because Smith was the nation's best lineman.

CashmoneyDrew
12-05-2009, 01:46 PM
Carlos Dunlap is letting his team down as well and is missing his team's biggest game of the season as a consequence. His decision is way worse. He's not even of legal drinking age. Not to say I never drank underage, but he knew what he was doing was wrong before he even got drunk.

ironman4579
12-05-2009, 01:47 PM
The guy is a beast, there's no way his stock would free fall unless something drastic happened again before the draft at some point.

All he has to do is drop a few cliches and say he's learned from this experience and he's a Raiders or better pick IMO.

Anyway,

I still don't get the coming back thing (and I posted this in another thread) but if you have a top 20 lottery ticket (his is even better) go and cash it now. Another year of education way way overrated when you have the means to go be rich right now.

You can go back to school whenever you want anyway.

As an athlete, maybe. As an actual productive, consistently dominate/good player? Not so much.

wonderbredd24
12-05-2009, 01:53 PM
He should leave now... another year will just confirm how overrated he is as a player.

The money is there for him this year and the Raiders don't have a 1st round pick next year... go get paid and sink or swim in the NFL.

FUNBUNCHER
12-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Talking to an agent IMO is a hypocrital NCAA rule violation.

Driving drunk and passing out in traffic is practically a violent crime and 10x worse than what Andre did. I bet wherever Carlos went to drink, he had every intention of driving home, whether he got drunk or not.

As it stands, both actions had the same effect on their teams, since both were suspended.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Carlos Dunlap is letting his team down as well and is missing his team's biggest game of the season as a consequence. His decision is way worse. He's not even of legal drinking age. Not to say I never drank underage, but he knew what he was doing was wrong before he even got drunk.

Leon Hall has a DUI, he's regarded as a team leader and high character guy. When a person is drunk, they are not thinking about who they are letting down or what's on the line. He should have planned ahead better, but lets not crucify the kid. When I did drive drunk (when I was 18) I didn't think of all the things I was doing wrong before. Maybe he thought he was ok to drive, maybe he thought he didn't have other ways to get home, maybe he had a fan shoving drinks down his throat.

His mistake was a lapse in judgment, Andre Smith showed he didn't care about his team by dealing with an agent. Dunlap's mistake was one that took all of two hours, hardly a planned/conscious deal, Smith's was. That's why I think it's more telling about football character.

He should have thought first before he acted, and he should have had that mental block there to not get in a car, still why do some pretend like only bad guys make bad decisions?

I worry more about his work-ethic in practice and his effort on the field than him driving drunk again or endangering other individuals. By all accounts, you have a very uncharacteristic event and one that has Dunlap an emotional wreck. You can keep pretending he's an inconsiderate person or not an intelligent person, but I'd rather focus on what's real, concerns about effort and work ethic.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Talking to an agent IMO is a hypocrital NCAA rule violation.

Driving drunk and passing out in traffic is practically a violent crime and 10x worse than what Andre did. I bet wherever Carlos went to drink, he had every intention of driving home, whether he got drunk or not.

As it stands, both actions had the same effect on their teams, since both were suspended.

I'm not saying which is a worse crime to society, I'm looking at football character. I mentioned it's a very dangerous and common crime, though not one that necessarily takes a stupid or bad person to commit.

Did they announce Dunlap would be suspended for their BCS game?

CashmoneyDrew
12-05-2009, 02:03 PM
I haven't passed judgment on Dunlap. He very well could be a nice guy that made one poor choice. But his choice was way worse than Smith's, even if you boil it down to just football decisions. Both guys let their teams down before important games, but Smith didn't break any laws when he let his team down, just an NCAA rule. Dunlap broke multiple laws when he let his team down. Both showed selfishness, but Dunlap's selfishness could have cost lives.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 02:13 PM
I haven't passed judgment on Dunlap. He very well could be a nice guy that made one poor choice. But his choice was way worse than Smith's, even if you boil it down to just football decisions. Both guys let their teams down before important games, but Smith didn't break any laws when he let his team down, just an NCAA rule. Dunlap broke multiple laws when he let his team down. Both showed selfishness, but Dunlap's selfishness could have cost lives.

Dunlap was selfish when intoxicated and made a mistake that most of us have made (though few of us have probably gotten caught). Smith was dealing with an agent, looking ahead to the NFL game and ignoring what was left of his college career. Read the link from the OP and it will tell you how unexpected and uncharacteristic it was. I really didn't see that kind of news coming out of Smith's situation, nor did I see the extreme remorse of Dunlap and Dunlap's family.

Look, I'm an Andre Smith fan. I love the guy. He really screwed that Alabama team though in a big way because he couldn't wait a month and a half. He knew the rules. You can say that Dunlap knew the law, but as I said, it really doesn't look like something that was thought out.

CashmoneyDrew
12-05-2009, 02:17 PM
Dunlap was selfish when intoxicated and made a mistake that most of us have made (though few of us have probably gotten caught). Smith was dealing with an agent, looking ahead to the NFL game and ignoring what was left of his college career. Read the link from the OP and it will tell you how unexpected and uncharacteristic it was. I really didn't see that kind of news coming out of Smith's situation, nor did I see the extreme remorse of Dunlap and Dunlap's family.

Look, I'm an Andre Smith fan. I love the guy. He really screwed that Alabama team though in a big way because he couldn't wait a month and a half. He knew the rules. You can say that Dunlap knew the law, but as I said, it really doesn't look like something that was thought out.

One of these offenses brought on a one game suspension, one of them cost a player the SEC Championship Game and BCS Bowl Game.

Andre Smith played the SEC championship game.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 02:22 PM
Andre Smith played the SEC championship game.

You're right. Thank you for that one, because I really did forget. I remember watching him against Florida and taking notes on his play and everything... had Brandon Spikes matched up on him a lot.

P-L
12-05-2009, 02:46 PM
You can say that Dunlap knew the law, but as I said, it really doesn't look like something that was thought out.
How can you assume that though? Do you think Dunlap had every intention of calling a designated driver and got so drunk he forgot? Maybe it's just me, but I don't know anyone who doesn't at least think about how they are getting home before the drink a massive amount of alcohol. I think it's far more likely that Dunlap planned to drive himself, because he was going to be "fine," than it is that he just happened to get drunk before he realized that he doesn't have a way home.

With that said, if this is an isolated incident than I can forgive him. Going back to school could help him not only become a better player but prove to NFL personnel that he is a good person.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 02:55 PM
How can you assume that though? Do you think Dunlap had every intention of calling a designated driver and got so drunk he forgot? Maybe it's just me, but I don't know anyone who doesn't at least think about how they are getting home before the drink a massive amount of alcohol. I think it's far more likely that Dunlap planned to drive himself, because he was going to be "fine," than it is that he just happened to get drunk before he realized that he doesn't have a way home.

With that said, if this is an isolated incident than I can forgive him. Going back to school could help him not only become a better player but prove to NFL personnel that he is a good person.

I'm not really making any assumptions, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt. From reading up on this a lot, and having an extensive amount of contact with DUIs, it looks like it is just an uncharacteristic, isolated incident. I assume he wasn't trying to get piss drunk, drive home and fall asleep at a stop-light mostly because no one really tries to do that. It was a lapse it thought, a lapse in attention, and something that will be probed by NFL evaluators. From what I've seen, and read, I really think work-ethic, football desire, and effort on the field are his biggest concerns character wise.

I don't think any NFL personnel will assume he's a bad person because of the DUI incident. Of course, interviews will turn up quite a bit more information about his character, but it really seems like he is a good kid who had a mental lapse.

It does give his stock a bit of a hit, but I don't think it moves him down much and I don't think it's something he can't recover from.

ironman4579
12-05-2009, 03:01 PM
I'm not really making any assumptions, I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt. From reading up on this a lot, and having an extensive amount of contact with DUIs, it looks like it is just an uncharacteristic, isolated incident. I assume he wasn't trying to get piss drunk, drive home and fall asleep at a stop-light mostly because no one really tries to do that. It was a lapse it thought, a lapse in attention, and something that will be probed by NFL evaluators. From what I've seen, and read, I really think work-ethic, football desire, and effort on the field are his biggest concerns character wise.

I don't think any NFL personnel will assume he's a bad person because of the DUI incident. Of course, interviews will turn up quite a bit more information about his character, but it really seems like he is a good kid who had a mental lapse.

It does give his stock a bit of a hit, but I don't think it moves him down much and I don't think it's something he can't recover from.


I have a problem with ever calling drunk driving a "mental lapse." Forgetting the answer to a question on a test is a mental lapse. Dropping a pass is a mental lapse. Getting behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk enough that you pass out at a stop light is not a mental lapse. at best it's dangerous stupidity. At worst it's a complete disregard for other peoples lives.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 03:02 PM
I have a problem with ever calling drunk driving a "mental lapse." Forgetting the answer to a question on a test is a mental lapse. Dropping a pass is a mental lapse. Getting behind the wheel of a vehicle drunk enough that you pass out at a stop light is not a mental lapse. at best it's dangerous stupidity. At worst it's a complete disregard for other peoples lives.

It's a serious crime to society and is usually treated as such.

But does it speak volumes about someone's character?

I don't think so, and that's all I'm trying to say here.

RaiderNation
12-05-2009, 03:04 PM
I really hope he goes back. We dont have a 1st next year so we cant draft him!!!

ironman4579
12-05-2009, 03:10 PM
It's a serious crime to society and is usually treated as such.

But does it speak volumes about someone's character?

I don't think so, and that's all I'm trying to say here.

If it's more than a one off thing, then yes, it does speak to the character of a person. I'm not saying that's the case here however.

My only point is calling it a "mental lapse" is a little ridiculous IMO.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 03:26 PM
If it's more than a one off thing, then yes, it does speak to the character of a person. I'm not saying that's the case here however.

My only point is calling it a "mental lapse" is a little ridiculous IMO.

When I got in some heat for driving drunk, it was a mental lapse. I had been drinking (Captain Morgan pong), was driven to a basketball game, was driven to a party at which I didn't drink, and five hours after I had stopped drinking, I was pulled over driving my friend home which I didn't know I'd have to do coming into the night.

Now, I hadn't been wasted, nor had I been asleep at the wheel, but call it what you will, a mistake, a mental lapse, bad luck, etc..

With how common DUIs are and how people typically get in those situations, it's not hard for me to refer to them as a "mental lapse" because rarely are they well thought out. It is a serious offense, and I don't mean to offend anyone by seeming like I excuse the behavior. All it took was once for me, at 18 years old, to put up a mental wall against driving after having any amount of alcohol or being in a car in which that's the case.

Just by the sound of it, looking at the aftermath, I would think Carlos is going to be more careful, smarter, and put up that wall. If he gets another, there's going to be serious questions about his maturity and character, but right now, if I'm an NFL evaluator, I'm probing his work ethic, desire to play football, and effort on the field.

I'm very interested in what people here would be saying if it had been Toby Gerhart or Colt McCoy with the DUI.

ironman4579
12-05-2009, 03:31 PM
When I got in some heat for driving drunk, it was a mental lapse. I had been drinking (Captain Morgan pong), was driven to a basketball game, was driven to a party at which I didn't drink, and five hours after I had stopped drinking, I was pulled over driving my friend home which I didn't know I'd have to do coming into the night.

Now, I hadn't been wasted, nor had I been asleep at the wheel, but call it what you will, a mistake, a mental lapse, bad luck, etc..

With how common DUIs are and how people typically get in those situations, it's not hard for me to refer to them as a "mental lapse" because rarely are they well thought out. It is a serious offense, and I don't mean to offend anyone by seeming like I excuse the behavior. All it took was once for me, at 18 years old, to put up a mental wall against driving after having any amount of alcohol or being in a car in which that's the case.

Just by the sound of it, looking at the aftermath, I would think Carlos is going to be more careful, smarter, and put up that wall. If he gets another, there's going to be serious questions about his maturity and character, but right now, if I'm an NFL evaluator, I'm probing his work ethic, desire to play football, and effort on the field.

I'm very interested in what people here would be saying if it had been Toby Gerhart or Colt McCoy with the DUI.

As I said, if it's more than one time, then I consider that it shows a person's character.

And regardless of what player it was, I at least would think it was extremely stupid an irresponsible.

ThePudge
12-05-2009, 03:40 PM
As I said, if it's more than one time, then I consider that it shows a person's character.

And regardless of what player it was, I at least would think it was extremely stupid an irresponsible.

Ok, then it seems we do agree on the subject and we shouldn't really worry about arguing.

I wasn't referring to you, or anyone, personally with the Gerhart/McCoy comment. As I've said before Leon Hall got one this summer and he's a team leader/model character. There is a very low perception of Carlos Dunlap here by some and I think it is playing a role in how some see the event.

It was stupid and irresponsible, and it's nice to see the event has taken a toll on Dunlap as a person. Hopefully he comes out of this a better and stronger person.

Hollywood
12-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Psshhh, I made that stupid mistake in high school. I still consider myself a solid character guy. I think Andre Smith's dealing with an agent is worse than this, as sometimes when you get drunk, you just end up in a driver's seat. It's not right, it's not good, but when people are drunk it sometimes happen. I know the guy had a lot on the line, but let's not pretend he had full decision-making capacity. For some guys, one time caught by the cops and you'll just have a mental block against it.

I really don't think a DUI is any measure of character, at all. My college roommate last year had two, my roommate this year has one, and I don't think my aunt can drive legally in Florida or New Jersey. Dunlap seems like a fine guy.

I concur with you. But the way the NFL is right now it's them that will consider him a bad character guy if he messes up again with something. Everybody seems to get that label for any little thing.

Rosebud
12-05-2009, 07:57 PM
Pudge you're forgetting that this board also serves as M.A.D.D.'s football board. And as such Dunlap's DUI proves the evilness of his character. I agree that as a football prospect a DUI is a minor concern, but you won't get this board to agree even when you list the masses of successful NFL players who have DUI's in their pasts.