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View Full Version : How Good is Ndamukong Suh Compared Past #1 DT's


Thunder&Lightning
12-11-2009, 04:00 AM
How good is he compared to previous years #1 dt's?

Paranoidmoonduck
12-11-2009, 04:16 AM
In terms of college play, he's better than every single other defensive tackle I've seen.

As a prospect, I think he fairly easily tops any other defensive tackle prospect since 2000.

DeathbyStat
12-11-2009, 06:13 AM
Reminds me of Richard Seymour

bruschis4all
12-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Been following college football since early 70's. Top 3 DL I've seen were Lee Roy Selmon, Reggie White and Suh. He just plays. Doesn't have the cool nickname like Big Daddy Wilkinson, or lack of desire like K.Sims. This guy is as close to a sure thing as you'll ever see. You'll be able to build your defense around a guy like him. I just don't think the qb's are all that great. Suh has to be the top pick.

Mr.Regular
12-11-2009, 10:15 AM
Best DT in college I've ever seen.
As a prospect he has everything you really look for. Elite production, good size, insane strength, amazing motor, shows passrush ability, consistently gets out of blocks, good technique, and by all accounts has shown he has leadership ability and has a high football IQ.
He's in that Calvin Johnson league of super prospects. And like CJ, only way he doesn't go #1 IMO is if someone desperately needs a QB.

Shane P. Hallam
12-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Let's take a look at the list:
09 - BJ Raji
08- Glenn Dorsey
07- Amobi Okoye
06- Haloti Ngata
05- Travis Johnson
04- Tommie Harris
03- Dewayne Robertson
02- Ryan Sims
01- Gerrard Warren
00-Corey Simon
99-Anthony McFarland
98-Michael Myers
97-Darrell Russell
96-Daryl Gardener
95-Warren Sapp


As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities or had the dominating performances Suh did. Sapp is what people want/expect him to be, but wasn't the prospect he was. It's just tough to have the size, penetration ability and run stuffing ability Suh has.

Supporting Caste
12-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Michael Myers? What?

Anyway, Suh is the best I've ever seen. I would definitely trade Dallas' whole draft for him. Probably more than that, too.

yourfavestoner
12-11-2009, 11:12 AM
Let's take a look at the list:
09 - BJ Raji
08- Glenn Dorsey
07- Amobi Okoye
06- Haloti Ngata
05- Travis Johnson
04- Tommie Harris
03- Dewayne Robertson
02- Ryan Sims
01- Gerrard Warren
00-Corey Simon
99-Anthony McFarland
98-Michael Myers
97-Darrell Russell
96-Daryl Gardener
95-Warren Sapp


As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities or had the dominating performances Suh did. Sapp is what people want/expect him to be, but wasn't the prospect he was. It's just tough to have the size, penetration ability and run stuffing ability Suh has.

Not only that, but he's got a non-stop motor, which is always the biggest questionmark when drafting a defensive lineman. He really has no flaws in his game. His lower body could be a little thicker, but that's really nitpicking.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Id take him #1 overall. Its so hard to find a DT like Suh. Having a DT like that in the middle of your defense makes drafting the rest of your defense a piece of cake. Getting that inside push is priceless.

Qbs come every year. A guy like Suh doesn't.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2009, 11:19 AM
If any of the Top 3 teams want to trade down this year they are going to have a lot of options. Teams are going to be killing each other to get to Suh.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2009, 11:23 AM
the question is, if you own the #1 pick, do you want to trade it this year?

usually the answer is a resounding yes, but with Suh...do you want to trade it?

very few prospects are so incredible that they're worth the #1 overall pick. im torn right now on my personal answer to that, but I think Suh just might be one of those guys who is worth all that money.

senormysterioso
12-11-2009, 11:25 AM
really, really, really good. I would take him number 1 even if DT wasn't a glaring need. I've never seen an interior lineman dominate like him outside of maybe Haynesworth during his beat mode year and Warren Sapp in his prime. Suh kind of reminds me of a Sapp/Haynesworth highbred in a way.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2009, 11:26 AM
the question is, if you own the #1 pick, do you want to trade it this year?

usually the answer is a resounding yes, but with Suh...do you want to trade it?

very few prospects are so incredible that they're worth the #1 overall pick. im torn right now on my personal answer to that, but I think Suh just might be one of those guys who is worth all that money.

It's going to be very interesting to see whoever has the #1 pick. I guess it's the Rams right now so I really can't see Spags passing up on Suh. Teams are going to be willing to give up a ton for him though.

LonghornsLegend
12-11-2009, 11:31 AM
It's going to be very interesting to see whoever has the #1 pick. I guess it's the Rams right now so I really can't see Spags passing up on Suh. Teams are going to be willing to give up a ton for him though.

I can. STL has been passing on an QB for D-lineman for years now, not sure they could or would want to do it another year. Now teams like Tampa Bay, Cleveland, they make alot of sense for Suh since they can give their QB more time, but some teams really want to get a QB no matter who it is even if it's a mistake.


If I were STL I'd take Suh and risk sucking another year then go after a QB, but I'm not sure they will.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2009, 11:31 AM
It's going to be very interesting to see whoever has the #1 pick. I guess it's the Rams right now so I really can't see Spags passing up on Suh. Teams are going to be willing to give up a ton for him though.

And in most cases, even when a player is an incredible talent, you still take the extra picks when you can unless he's a can't miss qb like Peyton Manning.

But this is the one time I can think of where a non qb talent is worth keeping over those picks. Having a DT like him is priceless. They come by every 10 years.

You can always draft a comparable DE later on that can give you much of what the top DE gives you. Ditto for LT, ditto for almost any position.

But having a DT like Suh...how can you give that away? Its almost impossible to do unless you already have a studly defense like the Steelers etc.

Just thinking about what kind of defense you can build around this guy feels so exciting.

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 12:03 PM
nightmare: Suh will get swallowed up by the Lions and will never be heard from again.

I still don't get close enough to my weekly dose of Calvin Johnson and am quite bitter about it.

ElectricEye
12-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Since I've been following the draft, I haven't seen a defensive prospect like Suh. Been a big believer in him the past two years. I think I was one of the few people who rated him over Berry in that community big board thing we did a few months back. That's not looking silly at all at this point.

MiWolves
12-11-2009, 12:11 PM
The only DT i would take over Suh right now is Darrell Russell. Darrell Russell(in college) was what Suh was in college but alot more athletic. He ran a 4.8 at the combine at like 320 pounds and he was basically going to be a better Warren Sapp until he got substance abuse and got killed.

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 12:15 PM
Since I've been following the draft, I haven't seen a defensive prospect like Suh. Been a big believer in him the past two years. I think I was one of the few people who rated him over Berry in that community big board thing we did a few months back. That's not looking silly at all at this point.

Generalizing this out to straight up 'defensive prospects' is very interesting to me. How far back do we have to go? Mario? He was an amazing prospect when you factor in upside but there was a huge consistency knock and he shot up the draft boards, not to mention the slight #1 money controversy.

Maybe I just haven't had my coffee yet but when it comes to being the complete prospect+outrageous ceiling as a defensive prospect I think you have to go back to 04 with

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/taylortimeline/SeanTaylor-MiamiU.jpg

ElectricEye
12-11-2009, 12:19 PM
I would put Taylor over him now that I think about it, but in a way I think Suh is more valuable than him. I guess it depends on how much of an impact you think of a safety has on the game versus how much a defensive tackle can make. Using that logic, I would take Suh even though Taylor is a better talent. Don't really have a problem putting him above the freakish defensive ends that have come out in since I've been following things closely either(Peppers, Mario). I'm ridiculously high on Suh and have been for the past few years though, so I could be biased.

bigbluedefense
12-11-2009, 01:02 PM
I wonder what impact all the attention that Suh is getting will have on other DTs in this draft.

Will they drop?

No effect at all on them?

I think the guy who gets hurt the most by this is Oklahoma's DT Gerald McCoy.

Giantsfan1080
12-11-2009, 01:10 PM
I don't think it would hurt McCoy, he's still a great prospect in his own right.

ElectricEye
12-11-2009, 01:20 PM
How would it hurt McCoy? If anything it makes someone who didn't get Suh want to jump on the next best impact tackle available.

CC.SD
12-11-2009, 01:28 PM
I agree I think McCoy could still easily find himself in the top 5. Any further and he is a very savvy pick by one GM or another. Okung on the other hand...

Maybe Next Year Millen2
12-11-2009, 01:38 PM
nightmare: Suh will get swallowed up by the Lions and will never be heard from again.

I still don't get close enough to my weekly dose of Calvin Johnson and am quite bitter about it.

If Suh gets swallowed up by the Lions, Cutler,Aaron Rodgers and Favre/future Vikings QB will cry twice a year. I really think he would be that much of a difference maker for the Lions D desperately needing difference makers. Not top 10 right away obviously(need some corners and DEs too) but finally a respectable defense in Detroit instead of leagues worst or almost worst. Our rush D has improved some this year with the additions of Sammie Lee Hill,Foote,Peterson,Levy,and Delmas. But we have no pass rush and corners and no interior rush. Adding Suh only strengthens that and gives us a pass rush instantly right in the QBs face.

Don't see him falling to the Lions but with the Browns win, Lions might be in a position to get him. We're good at losing and Bears at home is only real chance to steal a win for Detroit IMO. Go Bucs and Rams.

BuffaloBillsDraft
12-11-2009, 07:47 PM
Wasn't Glenn Dorsey the best DT ever?

I mean Suh did it in front of the world, he had 4.5 sacks, but does that mean he is inconsistent? He dominated for sure, he had 1/3 of his sacks in that 1 game.

I would say Tommie Harris was the best DT I personally saw in college.

Thread Killer
12-11-2009, 10:08 PM
Anyone else notice that this website doesn't list much in the way of Big 12 draft eligible interior lineman. Don't recall too many the past couple of drafts for that matter. I hate it that Suh had to play against so many pass happy spread offenses in the Big 12. I would have liked to see him more against better competiton. Are any of Big 12 guys even trained how to run block anymore?

Don't get me wrong. I think that Suh is a good player, but has he really played against anybody of legitimate NFL potential or has just been a man amongst spread offense boys?

I wonder if he'll be as dominant vs. an NFL Olinemen that are as strong as he is, aren't playing in wide spread offense splits, know how to run block, and are playing in a more balanced offense.

Supporting Caste
12-12-2009, 12:00 AM
Yes, he will rule in the NFL. No doubt. At all.

SwagU
12-12-2009, 12:20 AM
I would say that he is the best DT Prospect or atleast in your top 3. He has just dominated the game and done things DT's arent supose to do. He was being considered for the Heisman before that Texas game, but that game just elavated him to elite staus IMO. You can say that the O-line was crap and that is why he had that monsterous game, but coem onj he was domiateing guys even before that. For me he will go down as a DT prospect legend and I think he will produce in the NFL guaranteed.

Crickett
12-12-2009, 12:55 AM
As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities

:eek:

Dorsey had a ton of top 3 talk, both as a possible selection for the Falcons at #3 and as the best player available in that draft period.

Ngata...... not so much.

themaninblack
12-12-2009, 02:50 AM
I know someone already said it, but this young man does really remind me of Richard Seymour in a lot of ways.

will99890
12-12-2009, 01:59 PM
I know someone already said it, but this young man does really remind me of Richard Seymour in a lot of ways.

Yea that makes sense with the style of play and strength they both have, but the height difference is a factor. Plus Suh looks WAY more explosive and athletic than Seymour ever has. Explosiveness is THE thing I look for in a d-line prospect, which is one of the reasons I've been down on Selvie this year. He seems to have no burst off the line like he did as a soph.

Suh may not have the measureables of some guys like Haloti, but his quickness, upper body strength and motor make him the best DT prospect I've watched in college. (I am only 21 though so I don't exactly know every prospect in the last thirty years)

LonghornsLegend
12-12-2009, 02:23 PM
Wasn't Glenn Dorsey the best DT ever?

I mean Suh did it in front of the world, he had 4.5 sacks, but does that mean he is inconsistent? He dominated for sure, he had 1/3 of his sacks in that 1 game.

I would say Tommie Harris was the best DT I personally saw in college.

Look how many sacks he had all year, how many DT prospects rack up that many sacks? Mind you he's not even a pass rushing DT in the mold of a Tommie Harris, he's just got the best of both worlds in that he is stout at the point of attack, commands at least 2 blockers, and can get after the QB with a relentless motor.


You'd be hard pressed to find a DT to rack up 15 sacks a season very often. I mean, Mario Williams had 14.5 sacks, Suh has 12.5, that should tell you something. His primary job isn't even to be a pass rusher.

Babylon
12-12-2009, 02:44 PM
Been following college football since early 70's. Top 3 DL I've seen were Lee Roy Selmon, Reggie White and Suh. He just plays. Doesn't have the cool nickname like Big Daddy Wilkinson, or lack of desire like K.Sims. This guy is as close to a sure thing as you'll ever see. You'll be able to build your defense around a guy like him. I just don't think the qb's are all that great. Suh has to be the top pick.

Selmon played more on the end at OU from what i remembered. I'd have to say not seeing Mean Joe Green because he was never on TV i'd have to put Suh up there with Sapp, Jerome Brown and Seymour. I would add that he was more dominant than those as far as i'm concerned.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2009, 02:56 PM
Let's take a look at the list:
09 - BJ Raji
08- Glenn Dorsey
07- Amobi Okoye
06- Haloti Ngata
05- Travis Johnson
04- Tommie Harris
03- Dewayne Robertson
02- Ryan Sims
01- Gerrard Warren
00-Corey Simon
99-Anthony McFarland
98-Michael Myers
97-Darrell Russell
96-Daryl Gardener
95-Warren Sapp


As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities or had the dominating performances Suh did. Sapp is what people want/expect him to be, but wasn't the prospect he was. It's just tough to have the size, penetration ability and run stuffing ability Suh has.

I'd say Russell and Dorsey are the only 2 ranked somewhere in his category. What worries me is that hyped DT's rarely live up to expectations, Tommie Harris and Nagata are the only 2 DT's that have come close to being stars and Nagata wasn't ranked anywhere near as high a Suh. The failure rate for DT's is probably the highest of any position I can think of and I'd have a hard time taking Suh #1 overall based on just that fact.
Right now he is getting a ton of hype but I still remember at this stage of the draft process where everybody had Vince Wilfolk going #1 in his draft year and he dropped a ton on draft day even though he went in round 1. He's no Albert Haynesworth or John Henderson IMO, 2 of the strongest DT's to enter the league in their draft year, he is a penetrating DT and I'm not sure teams will rate him as high as a DT who could do both jobs at a high level. Stop the run and rush the passer. Just have to see if my concerns are correct or not in the post season.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-12-2009, 03:02 PM
We have seen a fair bit of failures in the top 10 at DT in recent years, but to be fair, since 2000, we've also had Kevin Williams, John Henderson and Richard Seymour go in the top 10.

bruschis4all
12-12-2009, 03:12 PM
Selmon played more on the end at OU from what i remembered. I'd have to say not seeing Mean Joe Green because he was never on TV i'd have to put Suh up there with Sapp, Jerome Brown and Seymour. I would add that he was more dominant than those as far as i'm concerned.

The 5-2 was their defense at OU. He played dt in that. More like a 3-4 end today in the modern 3-4. I remember Jimbo Elrod was one de. Forget the other. His brother Dewey was the ng that year.

descendency
12-12-2009, 03:19 PM
Wasn't Glenn Dorsey the best DT ever?

He's a 1 gap, 3 tech. Not a 2 gap 5 tech. (which is what he was playing in KC and his rookie year was expected... very few DTs make an impact as a rookie)

singe_101
12-12-2009, 05:44 PM
Having Kevin Williams, I concur that it is very good to have a Pro-Bowl DT and he deserves the hype.

But let's not make him out to be an automatic elite guy and team changer. Even if it kind of works it can still turn to a crap team, i.e. Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson (6-2 after they got him, 3-1000 since then).

But that applies to all the prospects. If he goes to a decent situation like Jake Long did, he can do well.

BigBanger
12-12-2009, 06:49 PM
Let's take a look at the list:
09 - BJ Raji
08- Glenn Dorsey
07- Amobi Okoye
06- Haloti Ngata
05- Travis Johnson
04- Tommie Harris
03- Dewayne Robertson
02- Ryan Sims
01- Gerrard Warren
00-Corey Simon
99-Anthony McFarland
98-Michael Myers
97-Darrell Russell
96-Daryl Gardener
95-Warren Sapp


As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities or had the dominating performances Suh did. Sapp is what people want/expect him to be, but wasn't the prospect he was. It's just tough to have the size, penetration ability and run stuffing ability Suh has.
Oh. My. God.

Dorsey was projected and seen as good value to Atlanta. Atlanta had the #3 pick in the draft. He was in a lot of scouts top 3 all year long. Everyone said his Championship game performance was incredibly dominate.


Ngata was raved about, but he also had 3 QBs, two great college QBs in Vince Young and Matt Lienart, then the big armed gunslinger that everyone fell in love with, Jay Cutler. Not to mention Reggie Bush who had a ton of attention, then a freak TE prospect. There were too many big names for Ngata to go top 3 in that draft, but in all reality, he was a better prospect than Dorsey. Ngata had more "elite" prospects and household names. That's how the draft works... top 5 prospects have as much to do with name recognition as their actual abilities.

Chris Long went 2nd overall in Dorsey's draft. Long was a great player, but he wasn't close to a top 5 prospect. He got pushed up because it was so weak. Long might not have gone in the top 10 in the '06 draft class.


Suh is about as good as it gets. Suh shits on Dorsey and Ellis, and those guys were very good prospects.

SenorGato
12-12-2009, 07:48 PM
Anyone else notice that this website doesn't list much in the way of Big 12 draft eligible interior lineman. Don't recall too many the past couple of drafts for that matter. I hate it that Suh had to play against so many pass happy spread offenses in the Big 12. I would have liked to see him more against better competiton. Are any of Big 12 guys even trained how to run block anymore?

Don't get me wrong. I think that Suh is a good player, but has he really played against anybody of legitimate NFL potential or has just been a man amongst spread offense boys?

I wonder if he'll be as dominant vs. an NFL Olinemen that are as strong as he is, aren't playing in wide spread offense splits, know how to run block, and are playing in a more balanced offense.

I put him in the class of guys like Ty Warren, Luis Castillo, Bunkley, Darnell Dockett. Even a young, before he got huge Kris Jenkins.

The ONLY reason why I don't put him in the Seymour, Henderson, Haynesworth, Williams, Ngata class is that he's not tall enough. Ngata is "only" 6'5 while the others are 6'6, but he's the kind of 6'5 that holds 330 pounds well.

FUNBUNCHER
12-12-2009, 08:41 PM
SenorGato, you really think 1" holds Suh back from being favorably compared to Seymour, Henderson, Haynesworth, Williams, and Ngata??

Come on, Gato, gotta think outside the box. Trust what your eyes see, not precisely how tall Suh measures.

BTW, sacks are extremely hard to come by in the Big 12 since most QBs are coached in that conference to get rid of the ball extremely quickly and are operating out of the shotgun about 75% of the time, so the amount of pressure Suh generates is even more impressive.

And Ty Warren, Luis Castillo, Bunkley, Darnell Dockett and Kris Jenkins just weren't the pro prospects that Suh is. All of them performed at several levels below Suh in college.

GoHuskers
12-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Suh's played some pretty solid competition. Oklahoma's line is pretty good, Tech had a pretty good guard and they still doubled Suh all game, I know Baylor's center is ranked pretty high, and Texas' line is better than people give them credit, McCoy only had 3 tackles in that game(I think) and he's a pretty dominant prospect in his own right. I agree though, a good senior bowl appearance could lock him up at #1. We can only hope they match him up against Iupata, that would set up an epic dual. He's a freak athlete so I don't worry about the combine at all.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2009, 10:32 PM
[QUOTE=FUNBUNCHER;1920341]SenorGato, you really think 1" holds Suh back from being favorably compared to Seymour, Henderson, Haynesworth, Williams, and Ngata??

Come on, Gato, gotta think outside the box. Trust what your eyes see, not precisely how tall Suh measures.

The DT's you mention aren't just 1 or 2 inches shorter which I agree wouldn't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things but he is considerably lighter than 4 of them and I'd guess a lot weaker as well. Suh as his sacks indicate is a penetrating DT, much more of a 1 gap type. He could also end up as a DE in a 3-4 defense depending on who drafts him. I don't think he is in the class of Seymour, Henderson, Haynesworth or Nagata as a run stopper and that may mean he won't necessarily have the impact at the next level everybody is predicting. We'll find out more at the Senior Bowl workouts and the combine if he attends either otherwise we may not get a full read on his status till his pro day. I'm keeping an open mind rather than depend on all the current hype.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Oh. My. God.

Dorsey was projected and seen as good value to Atlanta. Atlanta had the #3 pick in the draft. He was in a lot of scouts top 3 all year long. Everyone said his Championship game performance was incredibly dominate.


Ngata was raved about, but he also had 3 QBs, two great college QBs in Vince Young and Matt Lienart, then the big armed gunslinger that everyone fell in love with, Jay Cutler. Not to mention Reggie Bush who had a ton of attention, then a freak TE prospect. There were too many big names for Ngata to go top 3 in that draft, but in all reality, he was a better prospect than Dorsey. Ngata had more "elite" prospects and household names. That's how the draft works... top 5 prospects have as much to do with name recognition as their actual abilities.

Nagata was also traded on draft day by Cleveland who had 1st choice at his services. They turned around and thought so little of him that they traded the pick to Baltimore. In retrospect, not a great move but he obviously had his doubters on draft day and was hardly a top 3 prospect. As for name recognition effecting draft status, I guess that's why so many Heisman Trophy winners get no love on draft day. Never head such junk in my life.

Chris Long went 2nd overall in Dorsey's draft. Long was a great player, but he wasn't close to a top 5 prospect. He got pushed up because it was so weak. Long might not have gone in the top 10 in the '06 draft class.

I agree he was pushed up by a weak draft but your pushing it suggesting he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in the 06 draft.


Suh is about as good as it gets. Suh shits on Dorsey and Ellis, and those guys were very good prospects.

So far we have zero confirmation from anybody attached to the NFL on how high they rate Suh, so to say he leaves Dorsey and Ellis in his wake just hasn't been proved yet. He has yet to play 1 pro game and show he can dominate at the next level.

murdamal86
12-12-2009, 10:54 PM
I have him the best DT this decade with John Henderson being second. I'll never forget Henderson junior year (71 tackles, 12 sacks and 21 tackles for loss) but dropped off his senior year but he was still an absolute terror.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2009, 11:00 PM
I have him the best DT this decade with John Henderson being second. I'll never forget Henderson junior year (71 tackles, 12 sacks and 21 tackles for loss) but dropped off his senior year but he was still an absolute terror.

He was injured his senior year which caused his stock to drop otherwise he would have gone much higher. He is a completely different type of player from Suh, a lot bigger and tougher. Henderson is much more of a 2 gap player while Suh will be utilized as a 1 gap penetrator or as a 3-4 DE.

Iamcanadian
12-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Suh's played some pretty solid competition. Oklahoma's line is pretty good, Tech had a pretty good guard and they still doubled Suh all game, I know Baylor's center is ranked pretty high, and Texas' line is better than people give them credit, McCoy only had 3 tackles in that game(I think) and he's a pretty dominant prospect in his own right. I agree though, a good senior bowl appearance could lock him up at #1. We can only hope they match him up against Iupata, that would set up an epic dual. He's a freak athlete so I don't worry about the combine at all.

All great college players get doubled teamed every game so that statement doesn't mean a whole lot when discussing top 10 type prospects. Unfortunately, I don't know if Suh will paricipate in the Senior Bowl practices or the combine and we might have to wait quite awhile before we get a final rating on his pro draft status.

SenorGato
12-13-2009, 01:56 AM
SenorGato, you really think 1" holds Suh back from being favorably compared to Seymour, Henderson, Haynesworth, Williams, and Ngata??

Come on, Gato, gotta think outside the box. Trust what your eyes see, not precisely how tall Suh measures.

BTW, sacks are extremely hard to come by in the Big 12 since most QBs are coached in that conference to get rid of the ball extremely quickly and are operating out of the shotgun about 75% of the time, so the amount of pressure Suh generates is even more impressive.

Dockett wasn't the prospect Suh is going in, but he was hyped himself. That plus Suh would love to be the NFL player Dockett is.

And Ty Warren, Luis Castillo, Bunkley, Darnell Dockett and Kris Jenkins just weren't the pro prospects that Suh is. All of them performed at several levels below Suh in college.

No, Seymour, Henderson, Williams, etc. will all have extremely long arms too. It's the difference between taking a Mario Williams or Julius Peppers as a 4-3 DE over a John Abraham. You're not losing anything as far as getting a high end starter. Prototypes just always win out...Parcells' global theory and all that.

Hell, notice that Warren is the one that the Pats locked up over Seymour. Castillo is a top 3-4 DE when he's healthy. Dockett is one of the best play making DE/DTs in the league. Dockett may not have been a first rounder, but he was very highly thought of coming out in the draft. Bunkley is a major run stuffer who consistently takes up blockers and STILL has upside. Jenkins is one the best, if not the best, NT in the league when he's healthy. Hell, they all even play the same roles in the DL for teams, as they can all also play DE/DT/NT and often taken snaps all over in different packages.

Suh is very similar to Dockett. High motor, excellent athleticism, tons of upper body strength, leader, excellent pass rusher, good against the run, will wrap up when tackling...It's not an insult to compare Suh to that group of guys.

DoughBoy
12-13-2009, 03:13 AM
I have him the best DT this decade with John Henderson being second. I'll never forget Henderson junior year (71 tackles, 12 sacks and 21 tackles for loss) but dropped off his senior year but he was still an absolute terror.

Man I wish I could remeber when he and Albert Haynesworth were on the same D-line. That must have been the best duo of college D-lineman ever.

Saints-Tigers
12-13-2009, 06:37 AM
Man I wish I could remeber when he and Albert Haynesworth were on the same D-line. That must have been the best duo of college D-lineman ever.

Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton was also nice.

GoHuskers
12-13-2009, 08:00 AM
All great college players get doubled teamed every game so that statement doesn't mean a whole lot when discussing top 10 type prospects. Unfortunately, I don't know if Suh will paricipate in the Senior Bowl practices or the combine and we might have to wait quite awhile before we get a final rating on his pro draft status.

I've never seen McCoy get near the attention Suh gets, and certainly Cody rarely demands doubles away from the goal line(though Cody's draft status is based purely on potential from the film I've seen on him)

JFLO
12-13-2009, 08:29 AM
I've never seen McCoy get near the attention Suh gets, and certainly Cody rarely demands doubles away from the goal line(though Cody's draft status is based purely on potential from the film I've seen on him)

McCoy has been doubled team on a regular basis this season...

Don't get me wrong, Suh is more talented than McCoy and a better prospect at this point, but don't count out McCoy's stature either, he is an elite DT as well and he has been double teamed all season long as well.

the decider13
12-13-2009, 10:03 AM
I've never seen McCoy get near the attention Suh gets, and certainly Cody rarely demands doubles away from the goal line(though Cody's draft status is based purely on potential from the film I've seen on him)

McCoy gets doubled every game. He got hurt last year during a game where he was constantly triple teamed. The guy is elite.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2009, 10:21 AM
Man I wish I could remeber when he and Albert Haynesworth were on the same D-line. That must have been the best duo of college D-lineman ever.

Unfortunately, they both were injured their senior year and lost a lot of playing time. A lot of people were surprised when they both went in round 1 because of their injury record but in retrospect, it is quite obvious that they were 2 of the best DT prospects ever. Because oif injuries, the hype train never got started on them.

GoHuskers
12-13-2009, 10:41 AM
McCoy has been doubled team on a regular basis this season...

Don't get me wrong, Suh is more talented than McCoy and a better prospect at this point, but don't count out McCoy's stature either, he is an elite DT as well and he has been double teamed all season long as well.

I realize that McCoy is a great player and have him as my #2 player overall(what a great class of DT's), I was just mentioning that being doubled the majority of snaps and still leading your team in tackles should not be taken lightly just because other guys have done it. Though I will admit Texas did not double him that much, and that plan backfired in there face. In response to the comment below, are there really times when a player has been triple teamed outside of a blown assignment or a sneak or other inches to go play? Because that wouldn't seem to ever have enough benefit to ever be attempted legitimately.

murdamal86
12-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Unfortunately, they both were injured their senior year and lost a lot of playing time. A lot of people were surprised when they both went in round 1 because of their injury record but in retrospect, it is quite obvious that they were 2 of the best DT prospects ever. Because oif injuries, the hype train never got started on them.

They cost us a shot at the national title in 2001. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/unstoppable35/madfight.gif

BigBanger
12-13-2009, 04:14 PM
So far we have zero confirmation from anybody attached to the NFL on how high they rate Suh, so to say he leaves Dorsey and Ellis in his wake just hasn't been proved yet. He has yet to play 1 pro game and show he can dominate at the next level.
I don't need someone to tell me this is one of the best DT prospects this decade. I watch him and I see it. His size trumps Dorsey. His ability and lack of question marks regarding his ability to stop the run are not nearly as apparent as Dorsey had, and Dorsey, with his 6 foot nothing frame and 290 pounds, isn't even close to the frame Suh has. Suh also doesn't have the injury issues (back) Dorsey had. Suh plays with a strength rarely seen from college players. This is just my book, but if you're going to be an elite player, you better have elite size and strength when you play that position. I'll take a guy that controls the line (Casey Hampton over a guy that gives 7 or 8 sacks, but is pushed down the line or off the ball and creates holes in the running game). I think BJ Raji was a better prospect than Dorsey. Just personal preference.

Dorsey was an excellent player. Great college player. Dorsey is not, was not scheme versatile (which is why he's currently a bust, he needs to get out of KC ASAP). Suh is. Gerald McCoy has better strength and size and just as much athleticism as Dorsey. He's on a completely different level as far as prospects go. Dorsey also had very little potential. McCoy has ten times more potential than Dorsey. Both of these DTs are far superior to Dorsey and they trump the Ellis/Dorsey combo in every way imaginable. That is not to disrespect either of them, but both had question marks regarding size (Ellis didn't) and ability to stuff the run. They were explosive, penetrators that could record sacks. Ngata isn't going to produce sacks, but he has the ability to take you from a bad run defense to a very good run defense. Dorsey and Ellis weren't those guys. They could bring you from a bad run defense to a middle-of-the-pack run defense.

Dorsey had excellent technique, one of the best motors I've ever seen and he was explosive and unbelievably relentless. He was stout, but really struggled with double teams (size). Great leverage, but he was simply limited as he didn't have elite size and strength. Dorsey had quite a few question marks.

Suh doesn't have those question marks. Gerald McCoy doesn't either (he's just incredibly raw).

People apparently have no idea how great Ngata was in college. You guys talk about hype like that means a damn thing. Guys who play out in Oregon, are not going to be on the national stage that Dorsey was or Sedrick Ellis at USC. Suh at Nebraska didn't have the hype he has right now, and that's only because of the dominating performances he's had on National TV against Texas. Why? Everyone's watching Texas and their QB, then they see this monster throwing him and his linemen around like rag dolls. Now he has Hiesman hype. It's harder to get the "hype" when you don't go to a major school that's constantly on the national stage. Suh now has that going for him, but he also has the sack numbers to go along with the dominating performance. Then there's the size and strength and highlight reel type plays. Ngata didn't have any of this. People don't really care when they see a 310 pound DT run down a RB on a screen play, or split a double make a tackle at the LOS.

Ngata was every bit the prospect Dorsey was. He was better, much better. He was stuck in a draft full of stars and played in Oregon and he wasn't a sack machine. It's going to be hard to get top 3 talk when you have everything going against you. You think Green Bay would rather have Ngata instead of Hawk right now? How about New Orleans? Reggie Bush or Ngata? How about Cleveland? I watched Phil Savage talking about Ngata at the Combine like he was the best player on their board. I'm not even joking when I say this, he said (and I'm paraphrasing), "He's one of the best players in this draft and we just love him. His size and speed, and I've seen him run down RBs in space, is just so rare for the position, he's going to go top 10. He was constantly double and tripled team, and he still made plays. He can play all over the line in any scheme as 3-4 NT or 3-4 DE, or he can play the nose in a 4-3. We wont have a chance to draft him (12th overall), but if he somehow fell, we would be running our card up to the podium. He's a fantastic player and a great kid."

That was at the Combine. On draft day, they took the sexy player, Kamerion Wimbley and traded down with their own division rival one spot. You think they regret that? Not only did they pass on the better player, but they pretty much gave Ngata to their own division rival and now they see him twice a year.


Where you go in the draft has little to do with anything. Darrius Haywerd-Bey for example. Was he the best WR prospect in the draft last year? Was he even top 3? Top 5? The guy only had 6 players drafted ahead of him. 6. Adrian Peterson went at the same spot. You think those were on the same level as far as prospects?

Where you go and how much hype you have... that's for ESPN and nitwits that don't anything about these guys.

gsorace
12-13-2009, 04:51 PM
Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton was also nice.

So was Richard Seymour and Marcus Stroud

FUNBUNCHER
12-13-2009, 09:04 PM
+1 BigBanger.

People are forgetting how highly regarded a DT prospect Ngata was coming out of Oregon. I remember when he committed to play for the Ducks, and even then there was a buzz that Ngata would be one of the top DTs in college football the moment he stepped on campus.

BigBanger
12-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Peter King said this is most sought after "defensive player" of this decade after polling numerous GMs.

Forget DTs. He said defensive player.

It is Peter King, so you can take it for what it's worth, but I don't think we're going to be worrying about Suh's final standing with scouts and GMs there Canadian kid.

CashmoneyDrew
12-13-2009, 10:02 PM
Unfortunately, they both were injured their senior year and lost a lot of playing time. A lot of people were surprised when they both went in round 1 because of their injury record but in retrospect, it is quite obvious that they were 2 of the best DT prospects ever. Because oif injuries, the hype train never got started on them.

John Henderson was pretty hyped. I remember Tennessee was even going to mount a Heisman campaign for him his senior year.

Albert Haynesworth would have been in the mix for being drafted number one overall if he had waited to come out his senior year.

They both got a ton of hype.

They cost us a shot at the national title in 2001. http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p276/unstoppable35/madfight.gif

Yeah, and Matt ******* Mauck cost us ours that same year....

Bald_81
12-13-2009, 11:28 PM
There's been a lot of comparisons to Dorsey as a prospect -- so how about we compare their injury concerns as well? At the combine in '08, a whole uproar was caused concerning Dorsey's knee injury and that it could be a potential problem in his NFL career. In fact, Howard Balzer (who I hate) referred to it as "a ticking time-bomb just waiting to go off". Well, so far Dorsey hasn't missed an NFL game.

Suh seems to have some injury concerns as well. Walter Football characterizes one of his weaknesses as "has had multiple knee injuries and surgeries". Is that something to keep an eye on or something to be concerned with? I wasn't buying the Dorsey injury stuff, but I'm not as informed regarding the ones Suh had. Dorsey didn't miss any games at LSU, but Suh did miss some games early on at Nebraska. Bottom line, is there something to be scared about when picking him first? I'm a Rams fan, and although I prefer the QB, the possibility of Suh being our pick is a strong one.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 12:50 AM
There's been a lot of comparisons to Dorsey as a prospect -- so how about we compare their injury concerns as well? At the combine in '08, a whole uproar was caused concerning Dorsey's knee injury and that it could be a potential problem in his NFL career. In fact, Howard Balzer (who I hate) referred to it as "a ticking time-bomb just waiting to go off". Well, so far Dorsey hasn't missed an NFL game.

Suh seems to have some injury concerns as well. Walter Football characterizes one of his weaknesses as "has had multiple knee injuries and surgeries". Is that something to keep an eye on or something to be concerned with? I wasn't buying the Dorsey injury stuff, but I'm not as informed regarding the ones Suh had. Dorsey didn't miss any games at LSU, but Suh did miss some games early on at Nebraska. Bottom line, is there something to be scared about when picking him first? I'm a Rams fan, and although I prefer the QB, the possibility of Suh being our pick is a strong one.


I'm generally a proponent of the Rams taking a QB finally but there's no complaining if Suh is the pick. In fact of all the teams vying for the top spot, I think Suh would have the most success with the Rams if only because of Spags. Spags has more than shown he knows exactly what to do to get his defensive line humming and I would love to see Suh at the 3 technique playing the Super Bowl Justin Tuck role.

Come to think of it this pick needs to happen if only to salvage the Chris Long pick. Anyone else attracting attention on the D-line will help Chris earn his salary and not be such an eyesore as a former #2 overall pick.

Me Likey Rookies
12-14-2009, 12:55 AM
I hope the Rams take Locker so the Bucs can get Suh. It will be hard for Rams fans to get excited about 2010 if they go into the season with Bulger or Boller starting again.

Anyone concerned that Suh is currently playing at 291 lbs? Not the 300 that he is listed at. I know some people thought he was up to 305.

foozball
12-14-2009, 01:24 AM
I hope the Rams take Locker so the Bucs can get Suh. It will be hard for Rams fans to get excited about 2010 if they go into the season with Bulger or Boller starting again.

Anyone concerned that Suh is currently playing at 291 lbs? Not the 300 that he is listed at. I know some people thought he was up to 305.

I don't think size or weight is a concern. Most people will gain weight once they reach the NFL and have a more scheduled workout/nutrition regimen.

Also, Suh at 291lbs isn't a fat 291lbs. Alof of DLineman have a gut, but Suh looks like he could have a 12 pack (ok maybe not really). That guy is lean and mostly muscle. I doubt he'll have any problems pushing NFL lineman around because he's so strong.

FUNBUNCHER
12-14-2009, 02:10 AM
Honestly, there's no way to be sure what Suh's weight is at this point.

Since 300# is such a magic number for premium DTs, I have little doubt he'll put on 15 pounds before his private workouts to impress NFL scouts.

GoHuskers
12-14-2009, 09:35 AM
As far as injury concerns he hasn't faced any real problems the last couple years and he's played practically every snap in every game the past year so it can definitely be a concern, but not major enough to drop him. He's at 291 right now but after the season he could honestly hit as much as 305 before losing any speed by the combine.

Babylon
12-14-2009, 11:14 AM
The thing that stands out to me the more i watch him is his hands. Tremendous ability like a Reggie White to just move people. His weight to me isnt a cocern as i actually invision him as a 3-4 DE.

ElectricEye
12-14-2009, 11:28 AM
http://my.journalstar.com/assets/nebraskaspot/blogs/C/C/2/D/CC2D58BA-D741-4F02-A8EA-B92EE664CBA0/images/29189_Nebraska_Suh_Football_20091011092023_400.jpg

He has an extremely developed upper body. If he puts the work in the weight room, he could be up to 300 pounds just on lower body muscle alone. That's his biggest weakness at this point. His lack of lower body power. If he really is at 290 pounds it's a bit scary to think how good he could be if he puts on another 15 pounds, with an emphasis on his legs. You can never assume somebody can just do that though, but we'll see.

Job
12-14-2009, 05:17 PM
That man is gorgeous.

FUNBUNCHER
12-14-2009, 05:48 PM
Just asking ElectricEye, but how do evaluate that one of Suh's weaknesses is lower body strength/power??
Being able to anchor against the run, stalemate Olineman at the LOS and chase the football, or explode upfield on pass rushes all indicate to me that Suh has excellent lower body strength.

It's not like he gets driven off the football 5 yards downfield.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Just asking ElectricEye, but how do evaluate that one of Suh's weaknesses is lower body strength/power??
Being able to anchor against the run, stalemate Olineman at the LOS and chase the football, or explode upfield on pass rushes all indicate to me that Suh has excellent lower body strength.

It's pretty clear that Suh relies too much on the fact that he can still take on any single college lineman without getting proper leverage because he's simply way stronger. He'll plow into guys while standing straight up, but he uses his hands and extends his arms so well that after a little pulling and shoving he can normally get around his guy. Watch him play and you see a guy who's using his core and shoulder/upper arm strength to dominate, not his lower body.

Not to act like his lower body is weak relative to your average college lineman, but it's definitely the least developed part of his game.

Honestly, so long as no one tries to use Suh as a NT, I don't imagine it'll be a huge problem. He doesn't run at a tilt, but he frees himself of blockers as quickly and as controlled as any defensive tackle I've ever seen, which allows him to be a force in pursuit. That said, in the NFL he's going to have to adjust slightly to keep guys from getting under his pad level so easily. The caliber of offensive guard in the NFL is a whole other world.

We'll see though. If Suh winds up playing a 34 5-tech most of the time and moving to 3-tech in passing situations (a la Seymour with the Patriots), it might wind up being the best situation for him.

GoHuskers
12-14-2009, 08:23 PM
Hopefully after Suh does his vertical he'll erase any serious doubts about his lower body strength. I've never really gotten the hype over his supposed weakness, I don't care how strong you are on top you can't compete at any level unless your lower body is great.

ElectricEye
12-14-2009, 08:42 PM
His lower body strength isn't even below average, but he doesn't have to use his legs and leverage as much as other defensive tackles do and when he does have to he isn't nearly as successful as he is when he's just using his arms and hands to get by people. I agree with Paranoidmoonduck. It's not that huge of an issue even, but if we're looking for things to evaluate rather than just slobbering all over him with superlatives it bears mentioning.

senormysterioso
12-14-2009, 09:01 PM
When you're arms are the size of legs, it's hard to blame a guy for using them to his advantage.

CC.SD
12-15-2009, 01:57 AM
We'll see though. If Suh winds up playing a 34 5-tech most of the time and moving to 3-tech in passing situations (a la Seymour with the Patriots), it might wind up being the best situation for him.

This. omg dominance. Although any 3 technique position is pretty tasty too. 291...honestly he'll get bigger. He's still capable of developing. And every other aspect of him as a prospect is just so nasty.

SenorGato
12-15-2009, 08:26 AM
D'you guys watch Dockett play last night? I realize the Cards lost, but anyone still think it's an insult to best DTz everz to compare him to Dockett?

He's even got similar weight...height...body type...playing style...I hope Suh gets drafted by a 3-4 team. That'd change the whole DL.

GoHuskers
12-15-2009, 09:09 AM
His lower body strength isn't even below average, but he doesn't have to use his legs and leverage as much as other defensive tackles do and when he does have to he isn't nearly as successful as he is when he's just using his arms and hands to get by people. I agree with Paranoidmoonduck. It's not that huge of an issue even, but if we're looking for things to evaluate rather than just slobbering all over him with superlatives it bears mentioning.

Never in the history of football(at least at any competitive level) has a DT used his arms and hands to get by someone while having terrible lower body strength. I've watched him his entire career, would you mind showing me some examples of where he has been completely overmatched in lower body strength? He has a tendency to play high and he needs to add bulk specifically on his legs but it doesn't mean he's weak compared to other comparable prospects.

Babylon
12-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Never in the history of football(at least at any competitive level) has a DT used his arms and hands to get by someone while having terrible lower body strength. I've watched him his entire career, would you mind showing me some examples of where he has been completely overmatched in lower body strength? He has a tendency to play high and he needs to add bulk specifically on his legs but it doesn't mean he's weak compared to other comparable prospects.

Exactly. To say a guy has great hands and upper body doesnt mean he has a problem with his legs. The guy is a near 10 as a prospect so this is just your basic nitpicking at this point. Without Locker in the draft i think it's lock city this kid is the 1st pick.

GoHuskers
12-15-2009, 12:00 PM
Exactly. To say a guy has great hands and upper body doesnt mean he has a problem with his legs. The guy is a near 10 as a prospect so this is just your basic nitpicking at this point. Without Locker in the draft i think it's lock city this kid is the 1st pick.

I still think Cleveland would go with a QB, but if Tampa finishes their season 1-15 I'm gonna go ahead and get myself a Suh jersey. Its a lock at that point.

ElectricEye
12-15-2009, 12:13 PM
Never in the history of football(at least at any competitive level) has a DT used his arms and hands to get by someone while having terrible lower body strength. I've watched him his entire career, would you mind showing me some examples of where he has been completely overmatched in lower body strength? He has a tendency to play high and he needs to add bulk specifically on his legs but it doesn't mean he's weak compared to other comparable prospects.

I actually agree with you that he doesn't just use his arms and hands. I don't have any clips I can track down clips or examples off the top of my head, especially ones where he's been completely overmatched. I think you actually said it all there in that he does play high and get stood up on occasion, but with a little extra leg muscle he'll be fine.

TACKLE
12-15-2009, 12:27 PM
D'you guys watch Dockett play last night? I realize the Cards lost, but anyone still think it's an insult to best DTz everz to compare him to Dockett?

He's even got similar weight...height...body type...playing style...I hope Suh gets drafted by a 3-4 team. That'd change the whole DL.

Gerald McCoy is much closer to Dockett. Dockett like McCoy, is very explosive off the snap and does a great job at getting upfield. As good as Suh is, he isnít very explosive and doesnít get a very good jump off the snap. This trait is a trademark for both McCoy and Dockett. They are also both very similar in size with both around 6' 4 285-290.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-15-2009, 04:34 PM
I think that one could make the argument that McCoy has as much potential as Suh, but he's not nearly as far along. Both have adjustments to make once they hit the NFL though.

JFLO
12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
McCoy is still an elite player in this class, with Berry and Suh. His first step is just unreal and people are disregarding him because of his lack of production, yet they fail to realize that he has faced double teams all season long and still has been a disruptive force for opposing quarterbacks.

He is still a Top 5 pick.

ElectricEye
12-15-2009, 08:52 PM
I think that one could make the argument that McCoy has as much potential as Suh, but he's not nearly as far along. Both have adjustments to make once they hit the NFL though.

McCoy has a lot more adjustments to make. I agree that McCoy has Suh potential, but when you're as talented as the both of them are it eventually comes down to how far you're able to get that talent to take you. Suh is a much more realized talent. That's not to knock or slight McCoy in any way whatsoever, but I would be surprised if he ever got to the level Suh did.

FUNBUNCHER
12-15-2009, 09:27 PM
McCoy is still an elite player in this class, with Berry and Suh. His first step is just unreal and people are disregarding him because of his lack of production, yet they fail to realize that he has faced double teams all season long and still has been a disruptive force for opposing quarterbacks.

He is still a Top 5 pick.

No one I know of is disregarding McCoy, the distinction is at this point Suh appears to be the overall better football player. But it's not like Suh outclasses McCoy as a prospect.

Both will enter the league with the expectation of developing into all-pro type players, so in that sense they're viewed in a more similar light than not.

ThePudge
12-15-2009, 10:51 PM
McCoy is still an elite player in this class, with Berry and Suh. His first step is just unreal and people are disregarding him because of his lack of production, yet they fail to realize that he has faced double teams all season long and still has been a disruptive force for opposing quarterbacks.

He is still a Top 5 pick.

I know what you're saying and agree. I think comparing the two as prospects would be more or less like trying to compare Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson as prospects. They are two extremely talented prospects and I regard each more highly than any DT prospect of the last five years. If it weren't Suh, it'd be McCoy making headlines and being hailed as one of the best DT or DL prospects in recent memory. These two are both scary good. Like many, Suh is #1 on my board, McCoy is #3.

ElectricEye
12-15-2009, 10:54 PM
McCoy doesn't have a "lack of production" either. 14 TFL and 5 sacks are excellent for a defensive tackle. He just doesn't have the monstrous numbers Suh has. McCoy's production is actually right in line for the gold standard for a top flight defensive tackle prospect. Suh is just an absolute rarity in college football.

wogitalia
12-16-2009, 01:22 AM
The higher that Suh goes the better for other prospects at DT, he is going to be the first guy taken, once he is out of the way, guys like McCoy have a chance.

Suh is so good that I would love the Vikes to move heaven and earth to add him, can you imagine the nightmare that Suh and KWill would cause teams, throw in that other guy at end and it is just scary, pockets would be collapsing so quickly that teams would just be calling rollouts to the right all game to try and throw it.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 01:56 AM
I still think Cleveland would go with a QB, but if Tampa finishes their season 1-15 I'm gonna go ahead and get myself a Suh jersey. Its a lock at that point.

Cleveland's not going to take a QB imo, either the solution is already there (Quinn) or the situation is so bad that it's not time to take a QB yet. They won't pass on Suh with that D.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-16-2009, 02:20 AM
McCoy doesn't have a "lack of production" either. 14 TFL and 5 sacks are excellent for a defensive tackle. He just doesn't have the monstrous numbers Suh has. McCoy's production is actually right in line for the gold standard for a top flight defensive tackle prospect. Suh is just an absolute rarity in college football.

Indeed. McCoy has 1.5 sacks less so far this season in 2 less games, but posted career highs in TFL, QB hurries, and tackles. He's been pretty damn solid considering the general fall-off of the Sooners. If Suh wasn't in this draft, he might very well be my top player.

Suh has just been freaky productive.

SenorGato
12-16-2009, 10:32 AM
Gerald McCoy is much closer to Dockett. Dockett like McCoy, is very explosive off the snap and does a great job at getting upfield. As good as Suh is, he isnít very explosive and doesnít get a very good jump off the snap. This trait is a trademark for both McCoy and Dockett. They are also both very similar in size with both around 6' 4 285-290.

What Dockett and Suh have in common that I believe McCoy does not is elite upper body strength.

That said, they're also similar is build, frame, body type, playing style, and skillset.

McCoy is more finesse-y than Suh or Dockett. I'm not sure who I'd compare him to, but I guess Tommie Harris is a cheap name I can throw out before the offseason gets going.

Bald_81
12-19-2009, 06:07 PM
Ht: 6-4
Wt: 325
40-time: 5:05

Strengths: Speed, size and strength. [?] looks like the prototypical defensive tackle. A fierce run-stopper who can occupy two blockers and still make plays. Also gets heavy pressure on the passer despite heavy attention from opponents. Athletic for his size and very quick off the ball. Plays big in big games. Expected to be an immediate impact player.

Anyone want to take a guess as to who that player/prospect is?

And I'm posting this because it sounds eerily similar to Suh and the measurables are similar (except for weight). Basically, no one is a sure thing. The Rams NEED to hit on this pick, and I do agree it's Suh, but I've come to temper my enthusiasm with every player just because it's not a lock they become stars.

murdamal86
12-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Anyone want to take a guess as to who that player/prospect is?

And I'm posting this because it sounds eerily similar to Suh and the measurables are similar (except for weight). Basically, no one is a sure thing. The Rams NEED to hit on this pick, and I do agree it's Suh, but I've come to temper my enthusiasm with every player just because it's not a lock they become stars.

umm...Marcus Tubbs

Paranoidmoonduck
12-19-2009, 06:24 PM
I'd say that's Gerard Warren.

A few sentences like that could pretty much describe most solid defensive tackle prospects. Warren was never as dominant as Suh as been, but more importantly, they're not going to have the same fate because of a similar scouting report. No one is a sure thing, Suh included. All sorts of things can happen. But, on the field, I don't expect Suh to not become a good NFL player.

murdamal86
12-19-2009, 06:29 PM
My second guess would of been Jimmy Kennedy but Gerard Warren sounds a bit more accurate.

TACKLE
12-19-2009, 06:40 PM
It's got to be Gerrard Warren but Jimmy Kennedy is a good guess too.

Staubach12
12-19-2009, 06:50 PM
Suh is the best DT I've ever seen. Dorsey the only one who's even close.

Bald_81
12-19-2009, 08:26 PM
It is Gerard Warren. The point being, if Suh is the #1 pick, I expect him to develop into a Haynesworth type of DT. One that demands double teams, is a terror in opposing backfields, and most importantly frees up one-on-ones on the outside for our ends (this would help Chris Long immensely). With the depth of this DT class (Suh, McCoy, Williams, Austin, Price, Odrick), I was really hoping Locker would come out so we could take him #1 and then go DT at the top of the second round. Alas, that's the way it goes. I just have to hope and pray Suh is that dominant DT, otherwise we could just possibly trade down and get extra picks which would help us a lot.

Iamcanadian
12-21-2009, 10:58 AM
Man I wish I could remeber when he and Albert Haynesworth were on the same D-line. That must have been the best duo of college D-lineman ever.

Unfortunately, they were injured a great deal of the time in college.

Babylon
12-21-2009, 12:42 PM
It is Gerard Warren. The point being, if Suh is the #1 pick, I expect him to develop into a Haynesworth type of DT. One that demands double teams, is a terror in opposing backfields, and most importantly frees up one-on-ones on the outside for our ends (this would help Chris Long immensely). With the depth of this DT class (Suh, McCoy, Williams, Austin, Price, Odrick), I was really hoping Locker would come out so we could take him #1 and then go DT at the top of the second round. Alas, that's the way it goes. I just have to hope and pray Suh is that dominant DT, otherwise we could just possibly trade down and get extra picks which would help us a lot.

FWIW i would probably go to a 3-4 there, play Carriker and Suh at the ends and move Chris Long to a rush olb.

Bald_81
12-21-2009, 11:55 PM
FWIW i would probably go to a 3-4 there, play Carriker and Suh at the ends and move Chris Long to a rush olb.

I've tossed that idea around because it seems plausible, but there is no way we go to a 3-4 as long as Spagnuolo is our HC. I would like to see a hybrid possibly with some 3-4 formations, but other than that it isn't likely.

SenorGato
12-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Wait, why not? Spags lined the Giants up in a 3-4 sometimes, and I'm sure the defensive base isn't as big a deal to him as say...the defensive production.

Maybe I overestimate his and many other coaches ability to adapt.

Babylon
12-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Wait, why not? Spags lined the Giants up in a 3-4 sometimes, and I'm sure the defensive base isn't as big a deal to him as say...the defensive production.

Maybe I overestimate his and many other coaches ability to adapt.

I think you adapt to your strengths (hopefully they're capable of that there). Clearly they have to draft Suh and i think they need to get Carriker on the field. To me they look ideal as 3-4 DEs, freeing up Chris Long to play 3-4 OLB.

Bald_81
12-30-2009, 05:13 AM
Alright, here's another "guess who this player is" that sounds awfully similar to Ndamukong Suh (it's actually from Scott Wright himself):

Strengths:
Has a non-stop motor...Great strength...Technically sound and really understands leverage...Is real quick and a decent athlete...Outstanding tackler...Can penetrate and make plays in the backfield..Versatile and has played multiple positions in two different schemes...Has a ton of experience against top competition...Really smart and a hard worker...Active hands...Productive...Had a great senior year...A leader.

Guesses? Okay, I may be over analyzing this one a bit, but I'm still not completely sold on Suh as the slam dunk best player in this draft. I really wish there was a bonafide franchise QB in this draft, but of course that's the Rams luck for you. For all the positives surrounding his top notch intangibles and elite strength, I am equally concerned about how his technique and use of leverage will translate to the next level.

-Pass rush: Flashes the ability to be a good pass rusher, but is not consistent yet. Rushes upright and without leverage sometimes and does not attack the blocker; ends up having his initial pass-rush move stopped and cannot defeat blocker with a secondary pass-rush move.

-Initial quickness: Is almost always the first DL moving at the snap, but does not show the explosiveness off the ball to shoot through gap and get into backfield in a flash. Is consistently able to make contact with OLs before they can get a hold of him, enabling him to defeat blocks and make plays despite not always creating good leverage. Could make good initial quickness outstanding with improved technique and aggressiveness.

That's from Russ Lande of the Sporting News. He has some of the same concerns that I do with Suh. I also understand that although Suh is a senior, he is generally young in terms of grasping and honing his football skills, which my gut tells me he can develop and correct in the NFL. But the #1 is the #1 pick, and the Rams can't afford to miss on this player, especially when there is an equally great DT going to go right after them to Detroit in Gerald McCoy. Thoughts?

FUNBUNCHER
12-30-2009, 11:15 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about Suh. In a world where there's no such animal as a 'sure thing', Suh is about as safe a pick you can make at #1.

Suh will help Rams DE Chris Long realize whatever potential he has, and allow the Rams D to develop into one of the top young defensive units in the league.

My opinion about Suh is strictly based on watching the chaos he produces on the field, not so much from breaking down his pros/cons as a prospect.

One thing that jumps out about Suh is he has great ball instincts for a DT, almost LB-esque, and is simply the strongest lineman on the field during game day.

I'd take him and not think twice about it at #1.

Bald_81
12-30-2009, 11:46 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about Suh. In a world where there's no such animal as a 'sure thing', Suh is about as safe a pick you can make at #1.

Suh will help Rams DE Chris Long realize whatever potential he has, and allow the Rams D to develop into one of the top young defensive units in the league.

My opinion about Suh is strictly based on watching the chaos he produces on the field, not so much from breaking down his pros/cons as a prospect.

One thing that jumps out about Suh is he has great ball instincts for a DT, almost LB-esque, and is simply the strongest lineman on the field during game day.

I'd take him and not think twice about it at #1.

That is precisely why I think the Rams should take Suh. Not that Long has been a bust or his career needs to be salvaged (he has actually played really well the past four games), but Suh will be that presence in the middle that helps free up Long on the outside where he can maximize his potential and really break out as a force next season.

And like you said, Suh's instincts and ability to read/distinguish plays is just mind boggling. I've never seen that from a DT prospect, so it's those type of smarts that make me believe he can transition and correct himself at the next level. I guess you could say I'm most scared about McCoy becoming the better player (which is certainly possible) because that would only further condemn and hurt the Rams as a team and its fans. Suh is definitely worthy of the first pick, I just want to make sure he plays like one if/when we get him.

CC.SD
12-30-2009, 12:40 PM
It's looking like Suh will be a Ram, and a part of me is a little iffy on it. Don't get me wrong, I think he is far and away the #1 prospect in this draft. Suh in a 4-3 is a UT obviously and will dominate from there, but I would have really liked to see what he can do playing the 5 technique in a 3-4, for a team like Cleveland. IMO he would be a souped up prime Seymour from that spot, which would have been amazing. I just worry that he is listed at 295, which is realistically somewhere around 285, and manning the middle of a 4-3 requires a bunch of bulk most of the time. Not to mention weight loss over the course of a season. His talent can transcend that but it is notable.

GoHuskers
12-30-2009, 05:56 PM
It's looking like Suh will be a Ram, and a part of me is a little iffy on it. Don't get me wrong, I think he is far and away the #1 prospect in this draft. Suh in a 4-3 is a UT obviously and will dominate from there, but I would have really liked to see what he can do playing the 5 technique in a 3-4, for a team like Cleveland. IMO he would be a souped up prime Seymour from that spot, which would have been amazing. I just worry that he is listed at 295, which is realistically somewhere around 285, and manning the middle of a 4-3 requires a bunch of bulk most of the time. Not to mention weight loss over the course of a season. His talent can transcend that but it is notable.

He weighs 291, which will be more likely 300 after the season. He can possibly add another 10-15 without losing speed, which would put him at 310 which is good for an NFL DT. The thing is he's already the strongest DT in the draft by far, so his size isn't as huge a deal.

PACKmanN
12-30-2009, 06:00 PM
Can Bailey, DT from Miami, come out for this draft? and if so, who do you take first, him or Suh?

wicket
12-30-2009, 06:01 PM
Can Bailey, DT from Miami, come out for this draft? and if so, who do you take first, him or Suh?

yes but bailey already said he wouldnt and Id take suh over him by a fair margin.

Mr.Regular
12-30-2009, 06:09 PM
Can Bailey, DT from Miami, come out for this draft? and if so, who do you take first, him or Suh?
Bailey is eligible to declare. But likely won't.

And while Bailey is a nice prospect and very intriguing in his own right, Suh is special. He's in a whole other world of prospects in comparison to Bailey. Suh is the Calvin Johnson of DT's as far as prospects go.

stephenson86
12-30-2009, 07:15 PM
looking forward to watching him tonight...never seen him play

Nard_Dog
12-30-2009, 07:18 PM
Can Bailey, DT from Miami, come out for this draft? and if so, who do you take first, him or Suh?

Allen Bailey is more of an athletic freak, than he is talented. Ndamukong Suh on the other hand is a rare talent. He can change game, which is rare for defensive linemen.

Scott Wright
12-30-2009, 07:24 PM
I posted this on Twitter last night but Bailey looks like a prototypical five-technique defensive end to me. What strength! 3-4 teams are going to be all over him. Sounds like he is going back, which is smart, but he definitely has first round potential for the 2011 NFL Draft.

nobodyinparticular
12-30-2009, 07:37 PM
Let's take a look at the list:
09 - BJ Raji
08- Glenn Dorsey
07- Amobi Okoye
06- Haloti Ngata
05- Travis Johnson
04- Tommie Harris
03- Dewayne Robertson
02- Ryan Sims
01- Gerrard Warren
00-Corey Simon
99-Anthony McFarland
98-Michael Myers
97-Darrell Russell
96-Daryl Gardener
95-Warren Sapp


As a pure prospect, I honestly think the only player I'd rate over him is Darrell Russell. You could probably argue Dorsey or Ngata, but I don't think either (even when hyped,) were being talked as Top 3 possibilities or had the dominating performances Suh did. Sapp is what people want/expect him to be, but wasn't the prospect he was. It's just tough to have the size, penetration ability and run stuffing ability Suh has.

Darrell Russell is such a tragic story...

GoHuskers
12-30-2009, 08:51 PM
Arizona's offense is so bad its hard to get a good read on Suh tonight, but his insticts are just so outstanding. He's a little too patient rushing the passer but that might be more scheme than anything. Hopefully we'll see him rush more in the 2nd half with zona down big.

herniateddisc
12-30-2009, 09:08 PM
I think people forget Jerome Brown, Cortez Kennedy and Russell Maryland coming out of the U. Also Steve Emtman -- knees went.

Mr.Regular
12-30-2009, 09:13 PM
Suh almost had a TD! Lee sucks so hard though and couldn't find him.
Suh is the sex.

Splat
12-30-2009, 09:15 PM
He was wide open.:)

FUNBUNCHER
12-30-2009, 09:45 PM
I think people forget Jerome Brown, Cortez Kennedy and Russell Maryland coming out of the U. Also Steve Emtman -- knees went.


People forget how friggin BEASTLY Emtman was at U Dub!!! I'd put him as one of my top 5 DT prospects over the last 20 years.

There were (unconfirmed) steroid rumors about him when he came out because a few scouts described Emtman's play as a little 'too intense'.

Just an awesome college defensive football player.