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Thunder&Lightning
12-14-2009, 12:51 PM
1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Reggie Wayn
4. Randy Moss
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Desean Jackson
7. Steve Smith
8. Roddy White
9. Wes Welker
10. Marques Colston

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 12:54 PM
id take marshall over Moss. for that matter, id take Welker over Moss

Hines
12-14-2009, 12:56 PM
IMO

1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Steve Smith
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Desean Jackson
8. Marques Colston
9. Santonio Holmes
10. Wes Welker

I'd put Vincent Jackson, Roddy White, Boldin, and Hines Ward 11-15.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 01:00 PM
id take VJax over Santonio Holmes. Holmes has been solid but not a top10 receiver

MetSox17
12-14-2009, 01:03 PM
I'd take Vincent Jackson over both Colston and Holmes. Sucks for Megatron that he has no quarterback to throw him the ball, and has been injury prone.

Also, Marshall is just ridiculous.

vidae
12-14-2009, 01:03 PM
1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Andre Johsnon
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Steve Smith
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Marques Colston
7. Randy Moss
8. Calvin Johnson
9. Roddy White
10. Wes Welker

Hurricanes25
12-14-2009, 01:03 PM
1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Brandon Marshall
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Randy Moss
6. Wes Welker
7. Desean Jackson
8. Steve Smith
9. Vincent Jackson
10. Calvin Johnson

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 01:05 PM
1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Reggie Wayn
4. Brandon Marshall
5. VJax
6. Wes Welker
7. Randy Moss
8. Calvin Johnson
9. Steve Smith
10. Roddy White

Splat
12-14-2009, 01:06 PM
1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Reggie Wayne
5. Steve Smith
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Desean Jackson
8. Marques Colston
9. Santonio Holmes
10. Wes Welker


http://i50.tinypic.com/jfuoeb.gif

Bengals78
12-14-2009, 01:10 PM
Instead of Colston cant you just put *Drew Brees' target this week*?

Matthew Jones
12-14-2009, 01:11 PM
In no particular order:

Anquan Boldin
Larry Fitzgerald
DeSean Jackson
Vincent Jackson
Andre Johnson
Brandon Marshall
Randy Moss
Reggie Wayne
Wes Welker
Roddy White

Shiver
12-14-2009, 01:11 PM
1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Randy Moss
4. Brandon Marshall
5. Reggie Wayne
6. Desean Jackson
7. Vincent Jackson
8. Roddy White
9. Calvin Johnson
10. Steve Smith

(9 would be higher without the injuries)

Bengals78
12-14-2009, 01:15 PM
I guess I need to join homerville and nominate Chad to be in there somewhere, on the 23rd ranked passing offense he is 12th in the league.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 01:29 PM
I guess I need to join homerville and nominate Chad to be in there somewhere, on the 23rd ranked passing offense he is 12th in the league.
damnit i forgot Ocho.

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Reggie Wayn
4. Brandon Marshall
5. VJax
6. Wes Welker
7. Randy Moss
8. Calvin Johnson
9. OchoCinco
10. Roddy White

vikes_28
12-14-2009, 01:34 PM
No order

Fitzgerald
Moss
Andre Johnson
Ochocinco
Sidney Rice (homer)
Reggie Wayne
Brandon Marshall
Steve Smith
Heinz Ward
Boldin

Hines
12-14-2009, 01:37 PM
****, I forgot about Calvin Johnson.

killxswitch
12-14-2009, 01:42 PM
This is too hard. Some of the best are having down years (Steve Smith for example) and some of the best this year haven't done enough over multiple seasons for me to put them into any sort of top 10 over guys who have proven it before. There are some seriously talented WRs in the league this year.

yourfavestoner
12-14-2009, 01:42 PM
Mike Sims-Walker will be on this list by the end on next year.

Job
12-14-2009, 01:44 PM
In no particular order:

Anquan Boldin
Larry Fitzgerald
DeSean Jackson
Vincent Jackson
Andre Johnson
Brandon Marshall
Randy Moss
Reggie Wayne
Wes Welker
Roddy White

You liar. It is in alphabetical order.

Mr.Regular
12-14-2009, 01:51 PM
1- Larry Fitzgerald
2- Andre Johnson
3- Randy Moss
4- Reggie Wayne
5- DeSean Jackson
6- Brandon Marshall
7- Calvin Johnson
8- Vincent Jackson
9- Steve Smith
10- Anquan Boldin

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 01:58 PM
1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Reggie Wayne
7. DeSean Jackson
8. Steve Smith (Carolina)
9. Roddy White
10.Calvin Johnson

LizardState
12-14-2009, 02:01 PM
Andre Johnson & Fitzgerald are on the top shelf for me now.

Chad Ochocinco has fallen out of the top 10, his skills have obvioulsy eroded. He is like the NFL version of a rodeo clown at this point.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:02 PM
1. Randy Moss
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Reggie Wayne
7. DeSean Jackson
8. Steve Smith (Carolina)
9. Roddy White
10.Calvin Johnson
what has Randy done this season to a top10 WR?

Job
12-14-2009, 02:06 PM
maybe being 6th in receiving yards, 9th in receptions and tied 3rd in TDs.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:11 PM
what has Randy done this season to a top10 WR?

maybe being 6th in receiving yards, 9th in receptions and tied 3rd in TDs.

This. And he's still gets the Randy Moss treatment while still putting up those numbers. Even when he quits on his team (like this weekend) he's still getting doubled.

The man in my eyes is the 2nd best WR of all time, so until he's washed up, I'll always rate him higher than most.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:11 PM
maybe being 6th in receiving yards, 9th in receptions and tied 3rd in TDs.
Welker has more yards and receptions with 2 less games.

Even if he had a great career, him bing not even be in the #5 in 2 of the 3 major categories doenst scream #1 to me.

He seems to disappear often and everytime I see him make a big play its most on a streak play.


And dont give me that Randy moss treatment argument.
First of all, no one has any idea what his being done against them.

Secondly, you think no one like Fitz, Andre Johnson or anyone else in the Top5 get these treatments?

Job
12-14-2009, 02:12 PM
So? I never said Welker didn't show enough to be considered top 10.

Fitz has more everything than Boldin, still I saw Boldin on some lists.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:12 PM
Welker has more yards and receptions with 2 less games.

Welker has those numbers bc of Moss. That middle of the field wouldn't be open if Moss didn't clear it for him.

Before Welker came to NE he was nothing but a solid slot WR. After he joined NE with Moss he magically became a stat compiler. Moss makes him look better than he is.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:14 PM
Welker has more yards and receptions with 2 less games.

Even if he had a great career, him bing not even be in the #5 in 2 of the 3 major categories doenst scream #1 to me.

He seems to disappear often and everytime I see him make a big play its most on a streak play.


And dont give me that Randy moss treatment argument.
First of all, no one has any idea what his being done against them.

Secondly, you think no one like Fitz, Andre Johnson or anyone else in the Top5 get these treatments?
ive edited it.

SenorGato
12-14-2009, 02:21 PM
Andre Johnson then everybody else.

wicket
12-14-2009, 02:23 PM
1 Andre Johnson
2 Larry Fitzgerald
3 Reggie Wayne
4 Calvin Johnson
5 Brandon Marshall
6 Randy Moss
7 Vincent Jackson
8 DeSean Jackson
9 Roddy White
10 Greg Jennings

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:24 PM
ive edited it.

Randy Moss doesn't run many in routes etc bc he does more for his team by clearing out the field on a streak than catching a slant for 10 yards.

Nobody clears out the field for his teammates the way Moss does. Ever. Thats not even debatable.

And the Moss treatment is different from the Johnson/Fitz treatment. Maybe not as much this year, but in year's past, it clearly was. It wasn't even a double team, bc Moss would eat double teams. Its not just his CB and a safety. He'd stretch the LB on his side, and the other safety.

Even Johnson and Fitz never got that kind of treatment.

This year he's been doubled in a traditional fashion when up against better CBs in the game, but he's still making them pay for it.

Even Revis had help up top.

I saw Revis shut Andre Johnson down with no help. But he always had a safety help him on Moss. What does that tell you?

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:25 PM
Randy Moss doesn't run many in routes etc bc he does more for his team by clearing out the field on a streak than catching a slant for 10 yards.

Nobody clears out the field for his teammates the way Moss does. Ever. Thats not even debatable.

And the Moss treatment is different from the Johnson/Fitz treatment. Maybe not as much this year, but in year's past, it clearly was. It wasn't even a double team, bc Moss would eat double teams. Its not just his CB and a safety. He'd stretch the LB on his side, and the other safety.

Even Johnson and Fitz never got that kind of treatment.

This year he's been doubled in a traditional fashion when up against better CBs in the game, but he's still making them pay for it.

Even Revis had help up top.

I saw Revis shut Andre Johnson down with no help. But he always had a safety help him on Moss. What does that tell you?
great then why isnt Terrell Owens rank? seems like you are going off of past accomplishments

LizardState
12-14-2009, 02:26 PM
he's quit on the team roughly 6 times this season, resulting in 4 of the patriots losses.

Are you including yesterday, Sunday the 13th? Their opponent DB said "he quit" b/c he was pouting about being sent home for showing up late to practice.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 02:29 PM
his skills have obvioulsy eroded. He is like the NFL version of a rodeo clown at this point.

That's why he has 937 yards and 7 touchdowns.

vidae
12-14-2009, 02:29 PM
I put Randy Moss on my list because he is a great WR but I can't stand these diva WRs who quit on their team or cause their team harm. It's ridiculous.

I love a player who has swagger and confidence, I even like some who talk trash to opposing DBs from time to time, but don't quit on your team and don't let your actions hurt overall team chemistry. It's just stupid.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:32 PM
he's quit on the team roughly 6 times this season, resulting in 4 of the patriots losses. clearly that's an argument for his potential effectiveness, but i can't justify putting a guy who'd rather jog routes (and i don't mean the moss jog-sprint-by-everyone thing, i mean the moss walk-three-steps-jog-two-go-to-the-huddle thing), not even make an attempt to catch a ball off his numbers and make a pitiful effort anytime they ask him to go anywhere but deep as the best receiver in the game. it's frankly, difficult to justify putting him in the top ten.

i feel like i've had this discussion before, but whatever.

if we were putting a list of the most talented wrs, moss could still be one. i just don't see how you can call him one of the best given the literal joke of a season he's put forth so far (the vast majority of his numbers came in 6 games against garbage pass defenses).

To be fair to Moss, in the beginning of the season he was wide open several times but Brady just missed him. Brady wasn't healthy at the time.

We've gone over this before, and we're just going to have opposing views on it. Even with his lack of effort at times, I'll take Randy Moss any day of the week.

He's not the only WR who quits on routes and jogs routes. He gets more attention than others bc hes Randy Moss.

Ive seen Plax quit on tons of routes. Even games. But he was still a beast. Bc even when he quit, you still had to respect him.

Everyone looks at #s with WRs, but its not that simple. Plax had games where he had 2 catches for 30 yards, but on tape had an incredible effect on the game. Charlie Casserly broke it down last year, how he would get tripled through a jog at times. But that still opened up his teammates.

Moss does the same. But he shifts coverages like no other. Thats why I like him so much.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:34 PM
great then why isnt Terrell Owens rank? seems like you are going off of past accomplishments

Bc im not?

Randy Moss is still one of the top statistical WRs in the league and Owens isn't.


You act like Moss isn't doing a thing out there. Even now he's still a beast.

Mr.Regular
12-14-2009, 02:34 PM
I agree about the Randy Moss treatment. Him just being on the field makes a team better. He demands so much attention. And even with that attention, and even when he's dogging it he puts up great stats.
Citing Welker's stats actually could be a positive in a pro Randy argument. Without Moss, Welker is average. With him, he's a stad padding stud.
It's easy to look at stats to make a list, but football really isn't a stat game.. at all.. you have to look at way more than that and Moss dictates coverage, and demands attention, and makes team specifically game plan for him, all while making spectacular plays and putting up big numbers. Now, I don't have him #1 this year but I think leaving him outside of the top 3 or 5 would be a mistake.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Bc im not?

Randy Moss is still one of the top statistical WRs in the league and Owens isn't.


You act like Moss isn't doing a thing out there. Even now he's still a beast.
i know, never said anything else, but if you are basing it on this year, i see no logical argument to have him ranked top Wide receiver of the league

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 02:40 PM
i know, never said anything else, but if you are basing it on this year, i see no logical argument to have him ranked top Wide receiver of the league

off stats, yes, youre right, he's not.

but i don't think its fair to look at stats as the only justification of who's the best WR in the league.

Many of us have Megatron in our lists. But he hasn't done jack this year.

Contrarily, most of us don't have Steve Smith (the giants) on their list despite the fact that he's put up great numbers this year. Better numbers than many of the WRs on our lists.

I as a Giants fan readily admit that in spite of his #s, Smith isn't anywhere near a top 10 WR.

Mr.Regular
12-14-2009, 02:48 PM
that's demonstrably false. moss does not and has NEVER put up anything even approaching good stats when he chooses not to try.



he "demands" double coverage based on past accomplishment and, this year, based literally SOLELY on the fact that he's fast. that's the only conceivable reason to play a safety over him ever, since he can't beat anyone on any route that isn't a straight go. given that he runs the play poorly this year, brady throws it poorly and their OC doesn't call it (occasionally at all), it's mind boggling why anyone is respecting it this year.

again, you and bbd have put forth arguments for moss being a great receiver over past years. none of these arguments remotely apply to this year.
What I meant to say was despite dogging it sometimes he still demands the extra attention, and with all of the attention he gets he still puts up good stats. Sorry for the confusion, I typed that up wrong, and made it sound like he was a stat stud when not trying, which for the most part is false.

But I still do feel that his ability dictates game planning a ton, and its evident on the field. When you factor in that the guy has still put up top 10 stats while being specifically game planned against you have to respect how good he is.

dolphinfan2k5
12-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Welker has those numbers bc of Moss. That middle of the field wouldn't be open if Moss didn't clear it for him.

Before Welker came to NE he was nothing but a solid slot WR. After he joined NE with Moss he magically became a stat compiler. Moss makes him look better than he is.

THIS. Thank god someone realizes this. Welker is good because of the system he's in. He's the perfect guy for the role that he plays, but in terms of being an overall receiver like I think top-ten guys should be, he doesn't compare.

Hines
12-14-2009, 02:54 PM
I think a top reciever is more than stats. Hines Ward is an example.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Hines Ward is not a top receiver

senormysterioso
12-14-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm going to do this in order of who I would want most on my team right now, production on the field mixed with physical tools/potential

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Andre Johnson
3. Larry Fitzgerald
4. Brandon Marshall
5. Reggie Wayne
6. Vincent Jackson
7. Chad Ochocinco aka Estaban Hachi Go
8. DeSean Jackson
9. Randy Moss (when/if he decides to turn it on again no man...or 2 men can stop him)
10. Roddy White

next tier (in no particular order):
Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Mike Sims-Walker, Santonio Holmes, Steve Smith(s), Wes Welker, Marques Colston, Sidney Rice, Michael Crabtree, Kenny Britt, Anquan Boldin

Hines
12-14-2009, 03:02 PM
Hines Ward is not a top receiver

Stat wise, yes. If I wanted an all around reciever who is not selfish and willing to do whatever for the team, Hines Ward would be one of the top guys I call.

Smooth Criminal
12-14-2009, 03:02 PM
That's why he has 937 yards and 7 touchdowns.

Hines Ward has very similar numbers and no one thinks he's top ten. Those arn't the numbers of a top ten receiver. Only his attention ***** tactics keep his name in the news.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:03 PM
I can't put Welker in my top 10. The guy isn't the best WR on his own team, he can't be top 10.

Especially considering he doesn't get nearly the same coverages that a #1 wr faces.

There are a lot of WRs who can be subbed in for Welker and do just as good of a job, if not better. Smith of the Giants, Santana Moss, DJax, Smith of the Panthers, etc.

It reminds me of the Housh vs Chad Johnson debates. Many felt Housh was better than Chad. But Chad faced the doubles and the best CB.

What has Housh done since he became a "#1" in Seattle? Absolutely nothing. The coverages you get changes a lot when youre not 2nd fiddle.

If Welker was a #1 WR on a team, he wouldn't have half the stats he has. There are a lot of WRs better than Welker.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 03:03 PM
I would not put Moss #1 right now. I think with Fitzgerald and Johnson you have to fear all the time, but I would be terrified if were facing the Patriots and Randy Moss. That terror is something I that would not have with players like Wayne (a product of Manning) or Marshall, etc.,etc.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:14 PM
that brings up a good point. its hard to say which WRs are truly great vs the product of a system/qb.

I think guys like Wayne are very good WRs, but much of the reason for his great #s is bc of Manning.

Ditto for Steve Smith (Giants). Eli makes him look much better than he is. He's nothing more than a solid #2 WR, yet he has #1 WR numbers bc of Eli.


Vincent Jackson...now thats a stud. You can't cover him. Even when he's covered, he's not. Thats why I have him #4 on my list.

To be fair, the relationship between a WR and a qb is mostly mutual, but I do feel certain qbs make their cores look better than they truly are.

And in some cases, WRs make their qbs look better than they truly are (Randy Moss is the poster child for this).

dolphinfan2k5
12-14-2009, 03:14 PM
bitter much? :rolleyes:

I'm not bitter at all, I still like the trade we made. A more accurate statement would be, "hate the Patriots much?" to which I would reply yes, yes I do.

If Welker was a #1 WR on a team, he wouldn't have half the stats he has. There are a lot of WRs better than Welker.

This man knows.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Hines Ward has very similar numbers and no one thinks he's top ten. Those arn't the numbers of a top ten receiver. Only his attention ***** tactics keep his name in the news.

Did I say he was top ten? No. I responded to Lizard's dumb statements that Ocho's skills have deteriorated.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 03:16 PM
that brings up a good point. its hard to say which WRs are truly great vs the product of a system/qb.

I think guys like Wayne are very good WRs, but much of the reason for his great #s is bc of Manning.

Ditto for Steve Smith (Giants). Eli makes him look much better than he is. He's nothing more than a solid #2 WR, yet he has #1 WR numbers bc of Eli.


Vincent Jackson...now thats a stud. You can't cover him. Even when he's covered, he's not. Thats why I have him #4 on my list.

To be fair, the relationship between a WR and a qb is mostly mutual, but I do feel certain qbs make their cores look better than they truly are.

And in some cases, WRs make their qbs look better than they truly are (Randy Moss is the poster child for this).
are you saying that brady is not good or the reason for the success of the Patriots??

SchizophrenicBatman
12-14-2009, 03:16 PM
I have said for years that Housh was MASSIVELY overrated and that Ochocino was way better than him - absolutely absurd debate. Thankfully TJ went to Seattle to end it

Yesterday Welker ran up a ton of catches and yards on the Panthers. Why? Because no one was covering him on 80% of their passes. Give him credit for finding holes in zones, but really...he was tearing Carolina apart yesterday on one drive and they didn't even try to adjust the coverage. Meanwhile Moss looked like he was sleepwalking through the game and was still heavily covered

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:20 PM
are you saying that brady is not good or the reason for the success of the Patriots??

Not entirely.

The statement was moreso a knock on guys like Randall Cunningham (who led the best offense in NFL history with Moss before the Pats), Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, and every other joke of a qb that Moss played with.


For Brady...no, but it isn't coincidence that he had the most TDs in NFL history and led the most dynamic offense in NFL history after he got Moss. Prior to Moss, Brady was never a stat demon.

Thats taking nothing away from Brady. Brady is the man.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 03:21 PM
Vincent Jackson FTW, the only times he does not absolutely explode in a defense's face are the times he is consistently doubled and rolled to, leading to ridiculous games from Gates/Floyd/everyone.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Brady is a great QB, but he's not an all time leader in passing touchdowns QB without Moss

Sniper
12-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Moss is a great WR, but he's not an all time leader in receiving touchdowns without Brady

Can also work this way.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:23 PM
Vincent Jackson FTW, the only times he does not absolutely explode in a defense's face are the times he is consistently doubled and rolled to, leading to ridiculous games from Gates/Floyd/everyone.

He's incredible. Vincent Jackson is uncoverable. He's a TE with WR speed.

The only WRs id take over him are Moss, Fitz, and Johnson. I think he's that good.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 03:26 PM
Not entirely.

The statement was moreso a knock on guys like Randall Cunningham (who led the best offense in NFL history with Moss before the Pats), Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, and every other joke of a qb that Moss played with.


For Brady...no, but it isn't coincidence that he had the most TDs in NFL history and led the most dynamic offense in NFL history after he got Moss. Prior to Moss, Brady was never a stat demon.

Thats taking nothing away from Brady. Brady is the man.

Tom Brady before he had Moss and Welker was the Joe Montana to Peyton Manning's Dan Marino. Then he got them and he surpassed Manning and Marino.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:28 PM
Tom Brady before he had Moss and Welker was the Joe Montana to Peyton Manning's Dan Marino. Then he got them and he surpassed Manning and Marino.

Id say he was more Roger Staubach than Joe Montana. Montana put up beastly numbers his whole career.

Brady shares his clutchness though.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 03:28 PM
He's incredible. Vincent Jackson is uncoverable. He's a TE with WR speed.

The only WRs id take over him are Moss, Fitz, and Johnson. I think he's that good.

I agree. VJ is really an example of a project player done right: Out of Northern Colorado he was a 4.4/4.5 guy at 6'5 and 240...that's insane. But instead of being thrown to the wolves he was mentored by guys like Keenan McCardell, a supremely underrated route runner, and coached up by Hall of Famers like Charlie Joiner and James Lofton. Sure enough by the end of his 2nd year he was a force in the playoffs, and has continued ascending in his 3rd and now 4th year. Rivers helps too.

yourfavestoner
12-14-2009, 03:28 PM
Tom Brady before he had Moss and Welker was the Joe Montana to Peyton Manning's Dan Marino. Then he got them and he surpassed Manning and Marino.

^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!

I missed you Shiver.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:31 PM
I agree. VJ is really an example of a project player done right: Out of Northern Colorado he was a 4.4/4.5 guy at 6'5 and 240...that's insane. But instead of being thrown to the wolves he was mentored by guys like Keenan McCardell, a supremely underrated route runner, and coached up by Hall of Famers like Charlie Joiner and James Lofton. Sure enough by the end of his 2nd year he was a force in the playoffs, and has continued ascending in his 3rd and now 4th year. Rivers helps too.

i can only hope that my boy Ramses Barden can one day be like Vincent Jackson.

not that we need him, i think Nicks is going to be a monster. But if Barden can pan out, that would be insane.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-14-2009, 03:31 PM
Can also work this way.

He got way closer with Daunte Culpepper than Brady ever did otherwise

Sniper
12-14-2009, 03:32 PM
He got way closer with Daunte Culpepper than Brady ever did otherwise

Well, that's good, since we know that Brady had a bunch of All-Pro caliber wideouts in his entire career.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 03:36 PM
i can only hope that my boy Ramses Barden can one day be like Vincent Jackson.

not that we need him, i think Nicks is going to be a monster. But if Barden can pan out, that would be insane.

haha Pharoah needs to be activated on game day! There are matchups out there that he could win in his sleep.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Well, that's good, since we know that Brady had a bunch of All-Pro caliber wideouts in his entire career.
Dude he had a SB MVP!

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:39 PM
haha Pharoah needs to be activated on game day! There are matchups out there that he could win in his sleep.

they want to activate him, but he's been crappy on special teams so they don't.

supposedly he has some work to do. i think he might make an impact next year, but this year is a lost cause.

realistically, i think he's a 3 year project before we start seeing any production from him.

senormysterioso
12-14-2009, 03:40 PM
Dude he had a SB MVP!

So did Dexter Jackson...just sayin

SchizophrenicBatman
12-14-2009, 03:42 PM
I mean, I think Moss IS overrated some. You can't just ignore the fact that anytime the guy is playing with a QB that can't throw bombs to him he gives up. But when he has that guy - he's one of the greatest ever. Better as a WR than Brady is as a QB.

I don't think if I were making a list I'd put Moss #1. My "Top 10" list would be if I were making a team who would I take first. And unless I have top ~12 QB Moss is going to peace out on me.

The problem is the people who say Welker is better than him.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 03:42 PM
Dude he had a SB MVP!

Brady was no slouch before Moss, he was pretty much a shoe-in for 4,000 yards and 28 touchdowns; even with David Givens, Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 03:43 PM
they want to activate him, but he's been crappy on special teams so they don't.

supposedly he has some work to do. i think he might make an impact next year, but this year is a lost cause.

realistically, i think he's a 3 year project before we start seeing any production from him.

I will send him a note telling him to resurrect his tackling skills. 3 years is the likeliest scenario but honestly in the red zone he's such an obvious mismatch that I could see him blowing people away next year. Coming out of Cal State SLO, not the easiest adjustment.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 03:44 PM
Dude he had a SB MVP!

Super Bowl MVP means you had one great game. It doesn't make you an elite player, unless you think Desmond Howard was an elite NFL WR.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:45 PM
I will send him a note telling him to resurrect his tackling skills. 3 years is the likeliest scenario but honestly in the red zone he's such an obvious mismatch that I could see him blowing people away next year. Coming out of Cal State SLO, not the easiest adjustment.

yeah, us Giants fans have been screaming for them to activate him so we can use him in the redzone but no dice so far.

Our coaching staff is very stubborn with rookies, thats the problem. Nicks shouldve started weeks ago. In his first game as a starter, he goes for 110 yards and a TD.

Sintim should start, but he doesn't. Kenny Phillips shouldve started his rookie year but never did. Our staff is pretty stubborn with rookies. In a way I like it bc Coughlin does a tremendous job developing young talent, and I like to think that slowly bringing them along is a big reason for that, but as a fan its frustrating sometimes.

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Super Bowl MVP means you had one great game. It doesn't make you an elite player, unless you think Desmond Howard was an elite NFL WR.

:O dissing Desmond Howard? Sniper what is this action.

He was definitely an elite returner that year, although you're still right in general.

Is there even room for Sintim to start? I mean when Osi is coming off the bench, that's a tough rotation to get to the top of.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 03:49 PM
:O dissing Desmond Howard? Sniper what is this action.

He was definitely an elite returner that year, although you're still right in general.

Is there even room for Sintim to start? I mean when Osi is coming off the bench, that's a tough rotation to get to the top of.

Sintim plays strongside Backer for us in our base D, and plays DE on passing downs.

He's already better at SAM than godawful Danny Clark. But Clark starts.

Timbathia
12-14-2009, 03:53 PM
There has been a bit too much Welker bashing for my liking. You cant compare him to AJ, Fitz, VJax or the Beast, because he is a completely different kind of WR. The dude is better at what he does than anyone else in the league. It is not just because of Moss, almost any other #1 WR in the league could open up the field enough for him to work his stuff.

If we are picking dream teams to play a one off game and get 3 wideouts each and I get first pick of the WRs, then I take Welker first every time. Couldnt care less whether it is AJ, BMarsh or Fitz or whoever on the outside, because the difference between them is minute, but Welker is easily better at running slot routes than anyone in the league.

Job
12-14-2009, 03:59 PM
I'd argue Reggie Wayne, for one, is as good or better then Welker in the slot, as is probably Fitz, though he's playing wide most of the time and for good reason.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 04:00 PM
Steve Smith of the Giants is just as good in the slot, and he faces tougher coverages than Welker.

I like Welker, don't get me wrong. He's just not a top 10 WR. He's a great slot WR, but thats all he is.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-14-2009, 04:03 PM
My list:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Andre Johnson
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Calvin Johnson
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Vincent Jackson
7. Ocho Cinco
8. Randy Moss
9. A healthy Anquan Boldin
10. Santonio Holmes

I usually like to see at least a couple seasons of being really good before I rank them on this list. So no Miles Austin or Steve Smith(NYG) just yet. VJax is an exception though. Also some people in here hating on Reggie Wayne, but the dude gets wide open and catches anything you throw to him. Can't ask for more than that.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Super Bowl MVP means you had one great game. It doesn't make you an elite player, unless you think Desmond Howard was an elite NFL WR.
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Sarcasm-sarcasm-343353_300_300.jpg

scottyboy
12-14-2009, 04:13 PM
hmmm very difficult, let's give it a whirl:

1a. Andre Johnson
1b. Larry Fitzgerald
honestly, I love them both so much. they're both absurd, so they're 1a and b in my mind, could switch them if you please.

3. Reggie Wayne
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Megatron
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Ochocinco
8. Steve Smith (car)
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Randy Moss

Next in line: Greg Jennings, Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Steve Smith (NYG), Dwayne Bowe, Colston, Kenny Britt, MSW, Mile Austin

and a guy I've always liked is Santana Moss. He's always been a rival, but I'd love to see what he could've done with competency at QB.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 04:14 PM
ha Scotty, No Moss?

DoughBoy
12-14-2009, 04:15 PM
hmmm very difficult, let's give it a whirl:

1a. Andre Johnson
1b. Larry Fitzgerald
honestly, I love them both so much. they're both absurd, so they're 1a and b in my mind, could switch them if you please.

3. Reggie Wayne
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Megatron
6. Brandon Marshall
7. Ochocinco
8. Steve Smith (car)
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Greg Jennings

Next in line: Desean Jackson, Roddy White, Steve Smith (NYG), Dwayne Bowe, Colston, Kenny Britt, MSW, Mile Austin

and a guy I've always liked is Santana Moss. He's always been a rival, but I'd love to see what he could've done with competency at QB.

Kenny Britt should be number 2 atleast, maybe even 1c.

scottyboy
12-14-2009, 04:16 PM
ha Scotty, No Moss?

eh ****. I knew I forgot someone. I'll throw him up in there, NOBODY LOOK OR QUOTE IT FOR LYKE 10 SECONDS OK GUIYZ?

Sniper
12-14-2009, 04:17 PM
:O dissing Desmond Howard? Sniper what is this action.

I <3 Desmond, but he was a much better college player than a pro.

Timbathia
12-14-2009, 04:19 PM
Steve Smith of the Giants is just as good in the slot, and he faces tougher coverages than Welker.

I like Welker, don't get me wrong. He's just not a top 10 WR. He's a great slot WR, but thats all he is.

Welker has had less than 5 receptions in a game 6 times in the past 48 regular season games. Brady (who is a future HOFer) has a completion percentage 5% higher since he got Welker.

What makes a great WR? Wouldnt production be a huge factor? Welker does fantastically in this system, but other guys in this discussion like Reggie Wayne benefit enormously from their system as well. For 3 years no-one has got around to making him ineffective.

edit - also want to add in that the completion percentage to Welker is 77%.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 04:51 PM
Welker has had less than 5 receptions in a game 6 times in the past 48 regular season games. Brady (who is a future HOFer) has a completion percentage 5% higher since he got Welker.

What makes a great WR? Wouldnt production be a huge factor? Welker does fantastically in this system, but other guys in this discussion like Reggie Wayne benefit enormously from their system as well. For 3 years no-one has got around to making him ineffective.

edit - also want to add in that the completion percentage to Welker is 77%.

im not denying that Welker is a very good player. but he's just not a top 10 guy. he's just not.

he's great at what he does. but he's limited in what he can do. you can put a lot of WRs in his role and they'd thrive in that role. its not just all about production.

i think Santana Moss for example, who is a forgotten man by many bc he plays with ineptitude around him, would do even better than Welker if he teamed up with Brady and Moss and played Welker's role.

I like Welker, don't get me wrong. I'm probably coming off harsher than I want to. He's a great slot WR, he fits his sytem like a glove, but I just can't put him in the top 10.

There are too many good WRs in this league for Welker to be top 10 when he's a slot specialist.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 04:54 PM
This is dumb. Only one man deserves to be considered #1 through #10, and that's...

http://i49.tinypic.com/33wwbyq.jpg

CC.SD
12-14-2009, 05:00 PM
This is dumb. Only one man deserves to be considered #1 through #10, and that's...

http://i49.tinypic.com/33wwbyq.jpg

But this one goes to eleven...

http://www.bleepingidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/larryfitzgerald01.jpg

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:02 PM
I have a feeling that I'm going to hate DeSean Jackson for a very long time.

senormysterioso
12-14-2009, 05:04 PM
Welker has had less than 5 receptions in a game 6 times in the past 48 regular season games. Brady (who is a future HOFer) has a completion percentage 5% higher since he got Welker.

What makes a great WR? Wouldnt production be a huge factor? Welker does fantastically in this system, but other guys in this discussion like Reggie Wayne benefit enormously from their system as well. For 3 years no-one has got around to making him ineffective.

edit - also want to add in that the completion percentage to Welker is 77%.

I love Welker. He's a guy that's really easy to like he goes 100 mph from whistle to whistle, he's a football player. But the thing is he doesn't get enough touchdowns to call a top flight receiver. If you want to say he's a top 10 slot receiver, absolutely...probably the best in the game...but he makes his money between the 20's on underneath routes. I'm not minimizing the value of that, having a guy that can give you a first down pretty much at will is obviously a huge thing...but he's not a redzone threat whatsoever.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 05:05 PM
But this one goes to eleven...

http://www.bleepingidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/larryfitzgerald01.jpg

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CC.SD again.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 05:06 PM
I have a feeling that I'm going to hate DeSean Jackson for a very long time.

What a coincidence. I've got a similar feeling with Hakeem Nicks.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:08 PM
What a coincidence. I've got a similar feeling with Hakeem Nicks.

I counter your Hakeem Nicks with Jeremy Maclin.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 05:09 PM
I counter your Hakeem Nicks with Jeremy Maclin.

I see your Jeremy Maclin and call you a Mario Manningham, who will explode next season.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:13 PM
I see your Jeremy Maclin and call you a Mario Manningham, who will explode next season.

I raise you a Brent Celek.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 05:16 PM
I raise you a Brent Celek.
I raise you both a Jay Cutler

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:17 PM
I raise you both a Jay Cutler

Is that a bluff?

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 05:20 PM
Is that a bluff?
It is the ultimate gamble

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:22 PM
It is the ultimate gamble

*looks at my cards*


*shuffles my chips*


*calls*

A Perfect Score
12-14-2009, 05:25 PM
After reading the entire thread and thinking, and arguing with Renji in IRC, here is my list:

1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Brandon Marshall
4. Randy Moss
5. Steve Smith (Car)
6. Reggie Wayne
7. Roddy White
8. Vincent Jackson
9. Anquan Boldin
10. Calvin Johnson

Near misses: Desean Jackson, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe

I approached the list as I would if I was starting a team tomorrow, and someone asked me which WR I want playing my #1 WR position. A guy like Welker, who I feel could be substituted for a plurality of undersized, sure handed WRs and see the same result, cant fill that #1 position like the guys on this list can. Any argument that Welker is a better WR then Moss, even a statistical one (look at YPC, 1st down %, 20+, 40+, TDs, etc. to see why Moss is just as statistically relevant as Welker), should really be thrown out. I tried not to base it purely on stats or purely on potential with the younger guys, or on this season alone because guys do have off years, a la Steve Smith, who is the real Rod Tidwell.

Sniper
12-14-2009, 05:29 PM
I raise you a Brent Celek.

I fold. Or win, depending on which way you look at it.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 05:31 PM
*looks at my cards*


*shuffles my chips*


*calls*
HAHA! I win! You remember Eli the year they were winning the Superbowl? everybody thought he had way to many INTs?

Thats cutler!

Job
12-14-2009, 05:32 PM
HAHA! I win! You remember Eli the year they were winning the Superbowl? everybody thought he had way to many INTs?

Thats cutler!

Only difference is his team made the playoffs.

bigbluedefense
12-14-2009, 05:34 PM
HAHA! I win! You remember Eli the year they were winning the Superbowl? everybody thought he had way to many INTs?

Thats cutler!

I still believe in Cutler. Maybe he's not as good as I thought he was, but he needs some help out there.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 05:45 PM
I still believe in Cutler. Maybe he's not as good as I thought he was, but he needs some help out there.
id like to think its hard to success when your coaching staff are morons that seem to work against you rather than work with you.

TitanHope
12-14-2009, 05:47 PM
Kenny Britt will be on this list by the end on next year.

Fixed your post for ya, YFS! ;)

Seriously though, I have been dumbfoundingly impressed by Britt as a rookie. Dude is the youngest player in the league (I think...), and he's still significantly bigger and faster than the other guys on the field. Not to mention, he's a helluva blocker. I think he's gonna be a good'un. :D

Anyway, my rankings:

1. Andre "Titan Killer" Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Randy Moss
5. Brandon Marshall
6. Vincent Jackson
7. Anquan Boldin
8. Calvin Johnson
9. DeSean Jackson
10. Chad Ochocinco


Some great players barely left off the list. They know who they are...

San Diego Chicken
12-14-2009, 05:52 PM
I suppose if you factor in blocking, Vincent Jackson is a top 10 WR. However, I just don't feel he's had the production to be ranked ahead of someone like, Boldin, for example. We'll see if he makes the pro bowl this year. Maybe it's because I soured on him following that DUI right before the Steelers playoff game, but he's being overrated in these rankings.

YAYareaRB
12-14-2009, 06:00 PM
Andre Johnson is the best WR in the game. No matter who's throwing to him he still balls out.

Timbathia
12-14-2009, 06:07 PM
I see your Jeremy Maclin and call you a Mario Manningham, who will explode next season.

He will only explode if wideouts are allowed to use butterfly nets next year. The NFL is littered with receivers who looked great except for the fact they are crap at catching the football.

jimmylishis
12-14-2009, 06:17 PM
why isnt sidney rice getting any love?

Bengals78
12-14-2009, 06:33 PM
well if blocking counts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykuGLK5CFjE

diabsoule
12-14-2009, 06:34 PM
Mine:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Brandon Marshall
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Wes Welker
6. Steve Smith (Carolina)
7. Anquan Boldin
8. Marques Colston
9. Chad Johnson (Ochocinco)
10. Roddy White

Just missing the cut: Hines Ward, DeSean Jackson, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson

diabsoule
12-14-2009, 06:34 PM
I see your Jeremy Maclin and call you a Mario Manningham, who will explode next season.

I see your Mario Manningham and raise you a Robert Meachem.

Gay Ork Wang
12-14-2009, 06:38 PM
wow Diab no andre Johnson and no Randy moss

Splat
12-14-2009, 06:38 PM
why isnt sidney rice getting any love?

I think he is still kinda underrated to the average fan I don't think he is top ten atleast not yet but he is for sure in that next group of up and comers.

TitanHope
12-14-2009, 07:27 PM
I suppose if you factor in blocking, Vincent Jackson is a top 10 WR. However, I just don't feel he's had the production to be ranked ahead of someone like, Boldin, for example. We'll see if he makes the pro bowl this year. Maybe it's because I soured on him following that DUI right before the Steelers playoff game, but he's being overrated in these rankings.

I'd say WR blocking is just as relevant as an RB being able to pass-block - although RB pass-blocking is more important. Although, if the player isn't good, it doesn't matter how good of a blocker he is because no one gives a crap about him. The skill just ends up being one of those tie-breaker skills that get brought up in debates like these (ie. Me being a homer and bringing up Britt's beastly blocking skills as a way to try and separate him from the other young, talented WR's).

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-14-2009, 07:29 PM
But this one goes to eleven...

http://www.bleepingidiots.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/larryfitzgerald01.jpg

Fifteen. *****.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/1029/nfl_zoom_marshall.jpg

He's so good, his motivational poster doesn't even need text.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 07:43 PM
I am going to go on a rant here, but to me Reggie Wayne is very overrated. He is a very solid player, no doubt. He is as much of a product of Manning as Welker is a product of Brady.

Job
12-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Just like Marvin Harrison before him.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 07:51 PM
i'm calling your bluff. brady had ONE 4000 yard season before moss and 2 28 td seasons. not even remotely close to a "shoe in".

i've never understood why people make up silly statistical arguments for brady, pre-2007. must be all the gq covers.

Hyperbole my good sir. Anyway, there were Manning vs. Brady debates prior to the Patriots acquiring Welker and Moss.

TitanHope
12-14-2009, 07:58 PM
must be all the gq covers.

Quit playin' like you didn't buy those issues! ;)


Also, I have no doubt Reggie Wayne is one of the best WR's in the league. I guess some may point out that he has a 1st ballot HoF'er as his QB, but Jerry Rice had Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing passes to him, yet he still gets credited as the #1 WR of all time. Wayne is a tremendous player, and is a definite Top 5 WR in my opinion.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-14-2009, 08:01 PM
I disagree on Reggie Wayne, Shiv. He might not be the type of super athletic gamebreaker that guys like Andre Johnson are, but he runs great routes, gets wide open and catches the ball well. Can't ask for much more than that. And unlike Welker, he doesn't benefit from having a superior guy to take pressure off of him. He has an elite QB, but still. Peyton Manning isn't the one getting Reggie Wayne open. I have him ranked 3rd because Larry Fitz does what he does, only better, and Andre Johnson does that almost as well, except adds a dominant playmaking game to it as well. No one else gets open and catches the ball as well as Reggie Wayne IMO.

tjsunstein
12-14-2009, 08:03 PM
I mean if we're going all homer in this thread...

http://i.packers.com/pg/nelson_jordy_2009/photo7.jpg

sweetness34
12-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Out of what you've seen so far from Crabtree, what are your thoughts on his potential? I haven't had a chance to watch much of him this year.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 08:06 PM
I love Michael Crabtree. I think the fact that he walked in, with no training camp, no pre-season and already he is producing shows what kind of talent this kid has. I have no doubt he will be among the better receivers in the game in a few years.

scottyboy
12-14-2009, 08:06 PM
i didn't. i just ripped the covers off at 7-11 and glued them to my ceili...

um.

that's right, embrace the homosexual and homoerotic feelings you have towards your favorite players njx. JOIN ME ON THE DARK SIDE!

sweetness34
12-14-2009, 08:08 PM
I love Michael Crabtree. I think the fact that he walked in, with no training camp, no pre-season and already he is producing shows what kind of talent this kid has. I have no doubt he will be among the better receivers in the game in a few years.

You can't ignore production and he was a beast at Texas Tech. He just looks like a football player to me from what I've seen tonight.

I still wish he would've shown up to camp and had a full season of work up to this point.

Shiver
12-14-2009, 08:08 PM
I disagree on Reggie Wayne, Shiv. He might not be the type of super athletic gamebreaker that guys like Andre Johnson are, but he runs great routes, gets wide open and catches the ball well. Can't ask for much more than that. And unlike Welker, he doesn't benefit from having a superior guy to take pressure off of him. He has an elite QB, but still. Peyton Manning isn't the one getting Reggie Wayne open. I have him ranked 3rd because Larry Fitz does what he does, only better, and Andre Johnson does that almost as well, except adds a dominant playmaking game to it as well. No one else gets open and catches the ball as well as Reggie Wayne IMO.


Don't get me wrong, I have him 5th on my list. I just think he is closer to Greg Jennings and Roddy White than he is Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson.

tjsunstein
12-14-2009, 08:09 PM
that's right, embrace the homosexual and homoerotic feelings you have towards your favorite players njx. JOIN ME ON THE DARK SIDE!

Be right back. Spanking it to Clay Matthe....Wait. Never!

LonghornsLegend
12-14-2009, 08:10 PM
I am going to go on a rant here, but to me Reggie Wayne is very overrated. He is a very solid player, no doubt. He is as much of a product of Manning as Welker is a product of Brady.

How would we ever truly know? He's been blessed to play with an all-time great, but he's came through with some amazing catches in the clutch, taken over games, and been as consistent as you can be along with staying healthy. I don't think because he has a great QB should be held against him, he can still run great routes, has amazing hands, and you can count on him to make the tough catch.

scottyboy
12-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Be right back. Spanking it to Clay Matthe....Wait. Never!

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/5/128783244135260531.jpg


victory, I haz it.

TitanHope
12-14-2009, 08:13 PM
i didn't. i just ripped the covers off at 7-11 and glued them to my ceili...

um.

If you think that's bad, you don't even wanna know what I did with those Mark Sanchez pics.

Shiz got weird. I'm talkin' 2 dragons...

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-14-2009, 08:29 PM
You don't wanna know what I did with Jay Cutler youtube videos. Let's just say it involved a belt, and the ancient art of Qigong.

P-L
12-14-2009, 08:52 PM
Moss has been bad this year. Dropped passes, half assing routes, etc. How many interceptions have we seen Brady throw because Moss gave up on a route this year? Guy is an all-time great but so inconsistent.

senormysterioso
12-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Moss has been bad this year. Dropped passes, half assing routes, etc. How many interceptions have we seen Brady throw because Moss gave up on a route this year? Guy is an all-time great but so inconsistent.

If Moss could have kept himself motivated and his head on straight over the course of his career, I bet you could almost double his career numbers.

Bengals78
12-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Put the Rice work ethic in Randy's body. That would be the ultimate.

djp
12-14-2009, 09:46 PM
Mine:

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Brandon Marshall
3. Reggie Wayne
4. Vincent Jackson
5. Wes Welker
6. Steve Smith (Carolina)
7. Anquan Boldin
8. Marques Colston
9. Chad Johnson (Ochocinco)
10. Roddy White

Just missing the cut: Hines Ward, DeSean Jackson, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson

No Andre Johnson? This is just either a huge brain fart or foolish.

BufFan71
12-14-2009, 11:39 PM
speaking of WR's


Darius Heyward-Bey
9 catches

Jairus Byrd
9ints

yo123
12-14-2009, 11:55 PM
speaking of WR's


Darius Heyward-Bey
9 catches

Jairus Byrd
9ints



This is so awesome.

BTW

1. Larry Fitzgerald
2. Andre Johnson
3. Randy Moss
4. Brandon Marshall
5. Reggie Wayne
6. Calvin Johnson (Feel bad for him. Would be number 1 with any kind of talent around him and if he stayed healthy)
7. Vincent Jackson
8. Desean Jackson
9. Roddy White
10 Steve Smith

SenorGato
12-14-2009, 11:59 PM
Stat wise, yes. If I wanted an all around reciever who is not selfish and willing to do whatever for the team, Hines Ward would be one of the top guys I call.

I'd say the same thing about Jerricho Cotchery, but no one cares.

Day One Pick
12-15-2009, 12:04 AM
1 Larry Fitzgerald
2 Andre Johnson
3 Calvin Johnson
4 DeSean Jackson
5 Brandon Marshall
6 Reggie Wayne
7 Anquan Boldin
8 Wes Welker
9 Randy Moss
10 Sidney Rice

Paranoidmoonduck
12-15-2009, 12:43 AM
Moss has been bad this year. Dropped passes, half assing routes, etc. How many interceptions have we seen Brady throw because Moss gave up on a route this year? Guy is an all-time great but so inconsistent.

And yet he's still in the top 5 in terms of yardage, TD, and YPC (among receivers with over 50 catches). It's not like Moss jogging around the field is a new phenomenon. He's still easily a top 5 receiver in the NFL.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-15-2009, 12:48 AM
the stats are deceiving and indicative of a guy who doesn't care. he's had huge games against garbage and been basically invisible in almost all of the patriots losses. he's a top five talent for sure. the rest is (still) debatable.

Moss was pretty huge in close games like the week 1 Buffalo match (1 point win) and Indianapolis (1 point loss). I'm not going to argue that Moss cares like you'd want him to (no one is more familiar with Moss giving up down the stretch than Raiders fans), but he's still played really good football this year.

Timbathia
12-15-2009, 02:20 AM
and for good reason, just not statistical reasons =P

i still don't buy bbd's argument that other slot guys are as good as or better than welker. he's bar none the best right now. doesn't mean he's necessarily top ten, but i don't buy for a second that steve smith (for instance, because his name keeps coming up) could do the same thing (purely from watching both, though my smith viewing was limited). even santana moss has slowed down a lot.

Lets also not forget that Welker had 112 receptions at a completion percentage of 75% last year with Matt Cassel. Welker pads Brady's stats (he pushed Brady's percentage completion up from about 60 to 65%), and in a copycat league, no-one has been able to even get close to copying his sort of production from the past 3 years, and plenty of teams have a must-double-cover guy on the other side.

Gay Ork Wang
12-15-2009, 03:12 AM
Moss was pretty huge in close games like the week 1 Buffalo match (1 point win) and Indianapolis (1 point loss). I'm not going to argue that Moss cares like you'd want him to (no one is more familiar with Moss giving up down the stretch than Raiders fans), but he's still played really good football this year.
He did have to play vs 2 Rookie CBs vs the Colts

no bare feet
12-15-2009, 08:40 AM
Marshall
Wayne
Fitzgerald
A. Johnson
Boldin
Welker
Holmes
Calvin Johnson
Moss
Vincent Jackson

21ST
12-15-2009, 11:27 AM
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Brandon Marshall
Randy Moss
Reggie Wayne
Calvin Johnson
Anquan Boldin
DeSean Jackson
Wes Welker
85

Splat
12-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Any list that doesn't start with Fitz or A.Johnson #1 is fail.

SeanTaylorRIP
12-15-2009, 11:46 AM
1) Andre Johnson
2) Larry Fitzgerald
3) Brandon Marshall
4) Randy Moss
5) Reggie Wayne
6) Desean Jackson
7) Vincent Jackson
8) Roddy White
9) Calvin Johnson
10) Steve Smith(Panthers)
11) Ocho Cinco/Anquan Boldin
12) Santonio Holmes
13) Wes Welker
14) Marques Colston
15) Derrick Mason
16) Sidney Rice
17) Miles Austin
18) Steve Smith(Giants)
19) TO/Hines Ward
20) Donald Driver

Sniper
12-15-2009, 12:57 PM
EDIT: I am dumb.