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Splat
12-15-2009, 12:14 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/15/holmgrens-christmas-deadline-likely-is-a-message-to-lerner/

Amid multiple reports that former Packers and Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren is meeting with the Browns, Chris Mortensen of ESPN offers up a nugget that could, as a practical matter, limit Holmgren's options.

Per Mort, Holmgren "hopes to have his future clarified and secured by Christmas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4744799)."

So with the only current G.M. vacancies in Cleveland and Seattle and the only open coaching job in Buffalo, there aren't many places where the Big Show will raise the curtain.

MetSox17
12-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Word is he's gonna settle into the GM position in Cleveland. If he does, it's probably good news for Mangina.

keylime_5
12-15-2009, 12:48 PM
here comes the copycat of the Dolphins phase II. first it was the wildcat, now it's trying to find the next Bill Parcells to run the front office.

cvv84
12-15-2009, 12:52 PM
I like Holmgren as a HC but if I were a Browns fan I would be thinking why the Packers didn't give him the GM/HC title when he was there and why the Seahawks took away the GM title from him a few years ago.

Cicero
12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
Pleeeaase take him so we don't have to talk about him in Seattle anymore Browns pleeeeeaaaase.

vikes_28
12-15-2009, 12:53 PM
Mike Holmgren would do well in Cleveland.

keylime_5
12-15-2009, 01:11 PM
I like Holmgren as a HC but if I were a Browns fan I would be thinking why the Packers didn't give him the GM/HC title when he was there and why the Seahawks took away the GM title from him a few years ago.

that question has come up a lot in browns-dom lately....but I think the issue was being GM and HC at the same time was too much, but being only one or the other won't be as hard. It's more about recognizing how to build a winning team than it will be about recognizing talent in the draft like it was with Phil Savage. I think there's gonna be a guy under Mike with that responsibility.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2009, 01:15 PM
If Mike is there, I think thats trouble for Mangini.

GMs almost always want their own guys running the show. Holmgren has no affiliation with Mangini, never worked with him or anything.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Mangini era is cut short if Holmgren takes this job.

gpngc
12-15-2009, 01:18 PM
I wonder what Holmgren would do at QB in Cleveland.

Remember, he didn't draft any good QBs in Seattle- he acquired Hasselbeck in a trade for a sixth round pick because he was familiar with him.

cvv84
12-15-2009, 01:27 PM
If Mike is there, I think thats trouble for Mangini.

GMs almost always want their own guys running the show. Holmgren has no affiliation with Mangini, never worked with him or anything.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Mangini era is cut short if Holmgren takes this job.

I agree. There would definetly be a personality conflict there and in all honestly I was shocked when the Browns hired Mangini considering he did jack in NY and the players hated him.

I wish the Browns good luck though. They have a long ways to go and the constant turnover in staff isn't helping. I think they should switch back to the 4-3, dump Anderson, and focus on getting some weapons around Quinn.

CC.SD
12-15-2009, 01:54 PM
I wonder what Holmgren would do at QB in Cleveland.

Remember, he didn't draft any good QBs in Seattle- he acquired Hasselbeck in a trade for a sixth round pick because he was familiar with him.

But wasn't he familiar with him because he coached him up from a 6th round rookie in Green Bay? He's still their QB, he didn't exactly need to draft another one in Seattle.

Babylon
12-15-2009, 02:14 PM
I wonder what Holmgren would do at QB in Cleveland.

Remember, he didn't draft any good QBs in Seattle- he acquired Hasselbeck in a trade for a sixth round pick because he was familiar with him.

I think he'd go with Quinn. He's on record as saying he doesnt agree with drafting underclass QBs so i think they'd go with Brady.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2009, 02:17 PM
Holmgren would be good for Quinn. His track record with qbs speaks for itself.

If Mangini is let go, his coaching career may be over. And even finding a coordinator job would be tough for him, he's burned most of his bridges with Bellichick's coaching tree, and many coaches would be careful to hire him bc he's supposedly a "snitch"

keylime_5
12-15-2009, 02:39 PM
I think I heard somewhere that Holmgren was in the camp that thinks Quinn is gonna be a good QB and is a great fit in the WCO. Then against new regimes usually mean new QBs when there isn't a good QB already in place, so who knows. I think it spells the end for Mangini eventually, though I don't think necessarily that they would fire him before the 2010 season.

PoopSandwich
12-15-2009, 02:56 PM
I think more importantly Mike would be able to draft AROUND the QB position instead of trying to go through it. This is the biggest problem with the Browns, our talent outside the QB position.

I am comfortable with about half of our players on offense, them being.

TE - Evan Moore (Came out of no where, has glue for hands and great intensity.)

WR - Massaquoi (I would like him to be more of a #2 though)

FB - Vickers

LT - Joe Thomas

LG - Steinbach

C - Mack

So 6 of the 11 are okay, but we have an abysmal right side of the line, no true #1 receiver, a ? at running back and uncertainty at the biggest position in the game (qb).

Defense obviously needs some work as well considering were dead last.

BmoreBlackByrdz
12-15-2009, 03:04 PM
I think more importantly Mike would be able to draft AROUND the QB position instead of trying to go through it. This is the biggest problem with the Browns, our talent outside the QB position.

I am comfortable with about half of our players on offense, them being.

TE - Evan Moore (Came out of no where, has glue for hands and great intensity.)

WR - Massaquoi (I would like him to be more of a #2 though)

FB - Vickers

LT - Joe Thomas

LG - Steinbach

C - Mack

So 6 of the 11 are okay, but we have an abysmal right side of the line, no true #1 receiver, a ? at running back and uncertainty at the biggest position in the game (qb).

Defense obviously needs some work as well considering were dead last.

what about Brian Robiskie? I loved him as a prospect, has he shown anything?

PoopSandwich
12-15-2009, 03:08 PM
what about Brian Robiskie? I loved him as a prospect, has he shown anything?

Yeah he has, he has shown that when he gets playing time he can make plays, and Mangini has shown that he doesn't like to put Robo in.

keylime_5
12-15-2009, 03:10 PM
Can't show much when they won't let you. It's not like we run routes of more than 10 yards in our offense anyhow : (

cvv84
12-15-2009, 03:20 PM
I think more importantly Mike would be able to draft AROUND the QB position instead of trying to go through it. This is the biggest problem with the Browns, our talent outside the QB position.

I am comfortable with about half of our players on offense, them being.

TE - Evan Moore (Came out of no where, has glue for hands and great intensity.)

WR - Massaquoi (I would like him to be more of a #2 though)

FB - Vickers

LT - Joe Thomas

LG - Steinbach

C - Mack

So 6 of the 11 are okay, but we have an abysmal right side of the line, no true #1 receiver, a ? at running back and uncertainty at the biggest position in the game (qb).

Defense obviously needs some work as well considering were dead last.

The Oline is in place but you guys need a running game. I think the offense can get by without an elite WR but no team can win without a running game. Time to simplify which is why I say scrap the 3-4. Run the ball and short, quick passes to more possession guys like Massaquoi and Robiskie which is how Holmgren runs his offense.

Oh and Evan Moore didn't come out of nowhere, he came from the Packers ;) We had no room for room just like we didn't have room for Joey Haynos when the Dolphins took him from us last year.

Da-Phins
12-15-2009, 03:29 PM
Browns better pray hard they Holmgren decided to join them. That means dumbass Mangini will get fired and they could bring in a coach who is actually worth somethin. Here's a thought. You think Holmgren would go after Gruden to coach his team if he accepts the job?

cvv84
12-15-2009, 03:32 PM
You think Holmgren would go after Gruden to coach his team if he accepts the job?

I highly doubt it. Gruden and Holmgren's personalties would clash. I think Holmgren would need to find his "Tony Soprano" in that a guy who tends to go unoticed.

Da-Phins
12-15-2009, 03:37 PM
I highly doubt it. Gruden and Holmgren's personalties would clash. I think Holmgren would need to find his "Tony Soprano" in that a guy who tends to go unoticed.

Could be but I know that Gruden was on Holmgren's coaching staff while with the Packers so you know Holmgren knows what Gruden is all about. And both share the same similarity in style of offense and working well with QB's.

j05son
12-15-2009, 03:54 PM
here comes the copycat of the Dolphins phase II. first it was the wildcat, now it's trying to find the next Bill Parcells to run the front office.

That's not all...The Miami Dolphins team plane is currently at Burke Airport. There's 2 rumors circulating that Parcells is interviewing or that Parcells is helping Lerner with the interview (the latter being more likely).

Could be but I know that Gruden was on Holmgren's coaching staff while with the Packers so you know Holmgren knows what Gruden is all about. And both share the same similarity in style of offense and working well with QB's.

Mangini has actually been getting a lot of support from his players lately.

tjsunstein
12-15-2009, 04:21 PM
Mike Holmgren would do well in Cleveland.

As if they could do much worse than what they have now.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2009, 04:24 PM
I personally loved Mangini's draft. He just needs some more time to work his mojo.

PoopSandwich
12-15-2009, 04:27 PM
Dream scenario for me is if we get Holmgren ditch Mangini switch to a 4-3 draft Suh and roll with a DL that consists of Williams/Rogers/Suh/Robaire Smith with Rubin alternating in.

CC.SD
12-15-2009, 04:38 PM
I would not be at all surprised if breaking the losing streak against the Steelers buys Mangini another year no matter what happens with the GM spot.

PACKmanN
12-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Dream scenario for me is if we get Holmgren ditch Mangini switch to a 4-3 draft Suh and roll with a DL that consists of Williams/Rogers/Suh/Robaire Smith with Rubin alternating in.

a 330 pound Williams at DE? good luck.

PoopSandwich
12-15-2009, 06:39 PM
a 330 pound Williams at DE? good luck.

He could play DT and Suh could play DE

Bucs_Rule
12-15-2009, 06:56 PM
Gruden would command a lot of money. The Browns would already be paying Crennel, Mangini and Holgrem would need a decent amount. Thats a whole lot of money going to the coaching staff, Cleveland isn't a huge revenue team like Dallas or Washington.

j05son
12-15-2009, 07:47 PM
Apparently Holmgren's agent is also in Cleveland and Cowherd is implying there was a hire today.

j05son
12-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Holmgren not on Seattle's list. (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Tavern-talk-Holmgren-not-on-Seattles-list.html)

Browns offer Holmgren $10M (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Mike-Holmgren-considering-Cleveland-Browns-foot?urn=nfl,209166)

DiG
12-17-2009, 07:43 AM
could snyder be keeping zorn around with the idea of bringing in holmgren now with him????

PACKmanN
12-17-2009, 09:15 AM
He could play DT and Suh could play DE

I don't think you would want to waste Suh's talent and place him at DE in a 4-3.

PoopSandwich
12-17-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't think you would want to waste Suh's talent and place him at DE in a 4-3.

Fine, draft Eric Berry and roll with Wimbley, Williams, Rogers, R.Smith

:]

jriles0522
12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
Fine, draft Eric Berry and roll with Wimbley, Williams, Rogers, R.Smith

:]

If that's all we'll be rollin with we are in deep **** still.

Until we get an impact LB, inside or out, we'll just be average.

For the record, I'm all for Eric Berry on the Browns. Even over Suh. Now everyone come yell blasphemy.

PoopSandwich
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
http://elfyourself.jibjab.com/store/show_video_overview/enzkjJgsSwm897RC/8KvNqPD9Ld merry christmas

keylime_5
12-17-2009, 03:14 PM
Dream scenario for me is if we get Holmgren ditch Mangini switch to a 4-3 draft Suh and roll with a DL that consists of Williams/Rogers/Suh/Robaire Smith with Rubin alternating in.

kinda sliding off topic a bit...but i think the four man front with our current personnel would be

DE-Matt Roth
DT-Williams, Smith
DT-Rogers, Rubin
DE-Kenyon Coleman (Wimbley on passing downs)

plus

WLB-Jackson
MLB-Barton
SLB-Wimbley

PoopSandwich
12-17-2009, 03:24 PM
kinda sliding off topic a bit...but i think the four man front with our current personnel would be

DE-Matt Roth
DT-Williams, Smith
DT-Rogers, Rubin
DE-Kenyon Coleman (Wimbley on passing downs)

plus

WLB-Jackson
MLB-Barton
SLB-Wimbley

The only reason I brought it up was because I thought Holmgren would move to a 4-3

keylime_5
12-17-2009, 03:31 PM
yeah, i figure if we hire Holmgreen then he'd bring in a coach who (chances are) would employ a 4-3 defense. That's probably what the four man front would be if we were to switch to the 4-3 without adding any new players. If we do go 4-3 then DE becomes a big need, as was talked about last offseason a lot before we hired Mangini.

PoopSandwich
12-17-2009, 03:35 PM
Yeah it'll be interesting to see how we transition into a 4-3 as well as who stays and who goes.

I'm anxious to see Corey Williams get a legit shot in the 4-3.

j05son
12-17-2009, 03:49 PM
I personally would hate switching to a 4-3. We don't have the ends for it and we're very close to having the personal to run the 3-4.

Move Rogers to DE were he belongs and put the only true NT in Rubin in the middle.

DE - Rogers
DT - Rubin
DE - Smith/Coleman

OLB - Roth
MLB - Barton
MLB - Jackson
OLB - Wimbley

If Williams is still here he would make a great NT on obvious passing downs and we can even go with an all LB front like we did against Pitt with Roth at NT.

True Wimbley doesn't get as many sacks from a pass-rushing OLB as you'd like, but with the personal we have now along with Ryan's schemes, I think our defense is definitely improving.

Splat
12-18-2009, 05:53 PM
Holmgren doesn't rule out coaching the Browns (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/18/holmgren-doesnt-rule-out-coaching-the-browns/)

PickedOffTwice
12-18-2009, 06:23 PM
Holmgren doesn't rule out coaching the Browns (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/18/holmgren-doesnt-rule-out-coaching-the-browns/)

That would be hella unfair to Mangini as I am one of the few people who think that he did a pretty good job this year.

Splat
12-18-2009, 07:26 PM
Cut throat business.

PickedOffTwice
12-18-2009, 07:37 PM
True......

PoopSandwich
12-18-2009, 08:53 PM
That would be hella unfair to Mangini as I am one of the few people who think that he did a pretty good job this year.

He traded away Winslow/Edwards purged our roster and brought in a bunch of Jets and had us to the worst point we've ever been to since coming back.

There are reasons why he doesn't deserve to be coaching next year, just because he managed to beat pittsburgh once doesn't make him a good coach.

DeepThreat
12-18-2009, 08:54 PM
I had no problem with trading Winslow and Braylon (I loved both moves) but Mangini has been awful.

PoopSandwich
12-18-2009, 11:42 PM
I had no problem with trading Winslow and Braylon (I loved both moves) but Mangini has been awful.

You loved getting rid of Winslow and Edwards for...

Massaquoi, Trusnik, Stuckie, 3rd round pick.

Yeah, me too....

MattyFos
12-19-2009, 10:55 AM
That's not all...The Miami Dolphins team plane is currently at Burke Airport. There's 2 rumors circulating that Parcells is interviewing or that Parcells is helping Lerner with the interview (the latter being more likely).



Mangini has actually been getting a lot of support from his players lately.
Just the other day Corey Williams was yelling "We want Holmgren! We want Holmgren!"

phlysac
12-19-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm still unsure of what Holmgren's appeal is as a GM.

CC.SD
12-19-2009, 12:48 PM
You loved getting rid of Winslow and Edwards for...

Massaquoi, Trusinski, Stuckie, 3rd round pick.

Yeah, me too....

Massaquoi is the truth!

wonderbredd24
12-19-2009, 01:17 PM
The Browns traded damaged goods in Winslow for a guy who has looks very promising in Massaquoi who still has his entire career in front of him and doesn't have a geriatric knee, plus a 5th rounder this year. I'll take that.

The Browns traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets for what will undoubtedly be a 3rd and a 5th round pick, Jason Trusnik, and Chansi Stuckey. Braylon Edwards has been an abortion for the Jets and it would not surprise me to see the Jets let Edwards walk after this year. I'll take that.

The Browns traded down from 5, where there was no one for this team to pick, to obtain Alex Mack, who is a stud, David Veikune who is effectively having a red shirt year, Coye Francies, James Davis, Abram Elam, Kenyon Coleman, and Bret Ratliff. The Jets got Mark Sanchez and his colored wrist bands. I can live with that too.

This team was **** when Mangini got here. It's hardly surprising that trading whatever semblance of talent this team had and getting a ton of draft picks and rookies would still have the team as ****, but **** with a slightly brighter future.

Amazingly, the team has been playing inspired football lately. The problem is they just don't have the talent to win right now.

I have no problem with keeping Eric Mangini as the head coach whatsoever if that is the way they choose to go. He just needs talent to win and someone to pick it for him.

cvv84
12-19-2009, 02:33 PM
Yeah it'll be interesting to see how we transition into a 4-3 as well as who stays and who goes.

I'm anxious to see Corey Williams get a legit shot in the 4-3.

He already had one as a Green Bay Packer. 14 sacks in 2 seasons.

I think transitioning to the 4-3 would allow the team to draft and pick up free agents easier. I guess I just have to question the personel decisions because its taking so long for the Browns to make the transition to having a descent 3-4 defensive team. Meanwhile teams like the Cowboys, Dolphins, and Packers have shortened that transition period to 1-2 seasons.

keylime_5
12-19-2009, 02:59 PM
Browns traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets on basically a one year stint for 3rd and 5th round picks, Chansi Stuckey, and Jason Trusnik. Edwards is a free agent after the year and I bet the Jets don't resign him (the Browns certainly wouldn't have). Better than getting nothing and hanging onto him for the whole year.

PoopSandwich
12-19-2009, 05:48 PM
Browns traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets on basically a one year stint for 3rd and 5th round picks, Chansi Stuckey, and Jason Trusnik. Edwards is a free agent after the year and I bet the Jets don't resign him (the Browns certainly wouldn't have). Better than getting nothing and hanging onto him for the whole year.

Yeah but I would have rather rolled into this season trying to build on what we had rather than absolute destroying everything. Edwards and Winslow could have been awesome if they had a legit third target on the team (Maybe had we gone after Coles or drafted Crabtree?) I just don't like the approach Mangini took when he got here, and I think if he was willing to trade Edwards he should have done it before or during the draft while his stock was higher.

cvv84
12-19-2009, 08:52 PM
Seahawks announce Mike Holmgren has declined the senior leadership position with team

http://twitter.com/dannyoneil/status/6847403097

Babylon
12-21-2009, 12:53 PM
Seahawks announce Mike Holmgren has declined the senior leadership position with team

http://twitter.com/dannyoneil/status/6847403097

I think he wanted Tuna type control over everything there and the organization just didnt want to give it to him. Supposedly it wasnt a money issue.

All over town today you would think every problem with the Seahawks is directly related to Holmgren not being there. I'm sure it has nothing to do with their terrible defense, crappy O-line and lack of playmakers.

Shane P. Hallam
12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Holmgren is going to run the Cleveland Browns, per Adam Schefter

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/6905831736

BmoreBlackByrdz
12-21-2009, 05:39 PM
PFT is also confirming -

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/21/mike-holmgren-joins-the-browns/

Thumper
12-21-2009, 05:41 PM
ESPN just said that Mike Holmgren will become the Browns President.

NFL.com is reporting the same thing (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/12/21/holmgren-agrees-to-join-browns-as-team-president/)

CC.SD
12-21-2009, 05:51 PM
Omg teh shocking news

JFLO
12-21-2009, 06:08 PM
I don't really understand the logic of this move, especially the longevity of the deal.

Why, in any sport, would you sign a GM to a TEN YEAR DEAL?!?!?!?!

Holmgren certainly isn't unproven as a GM/President, but he really hasn't done anything spectacular to warrant such a massive deal. I really don't understand the process that the Browns went through with this deal and I don't see them getting any better.

Eric Mangini is as good as gone though.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
12-21-2009, 06:18 PM
I don't really understand the logic of this move, especially the longevity of the deal.

Why, in any sport, would you sign a GM to a TEN YEAR DEAL?!?!?!?!

Holmgren certainly isn't unproven as a GM/President, but he really hasn't done anything spectacular to warrant such a massive deal. I really don't understand the process that the Browns went through with this deal and I don't see them getting any better.

Eric Mangini is as good as gone though.

Maybe that was the only way he would sign.

Gay Ork Wang
12-21-2009, 06:25 PM
RT @FauxJohnMadden Tough break for Browns fans.. as Holmgren was signing his new contract he got a papercut and now has a staph infection.


hahahahaha

Tebow_Nation
12-21-2009, 06:33 PM
the browns are going to sign mike shannahanahan and hes gonna change his name to ike and theyre gonna be known as mike and ike and theyre gonna be the sweetest combo in nfl history and i bet they draft timmy tebow and run the afc north straight into the ground it honestly wouldnt surprise me if the browns were the best team in nfl history oh yeah they need to sign johnny cribbs to a bigger deal too

Thumper
12-21-2009, 07:19 PM
LOL Chris Mortensen just said that Holmgren might hire Marty Morninwheg. LOL! He is a decent offensive coordinator but he is a guy who refuses to run the ball and he is a complete moron when he is put in charge of things.

Example A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Mornhinweg):
The most notable moment in Mornhinweg's coaching history was his decision, coaching Detroit, to kick after winning an overtime coin toss. Mornhinweg felt that having the wind in his favor was more important for his Lions to win the game against the Chicago Bears, despite having as his kicker Jason Hanson, who hit a then-NCAA record 62-yard field goal in his college days at Washington State University. He elected to kick and on the Bears opening drive, Chicago scored a field goal. Mornhinweg's Lions went on to become 3-13 after that game, and prompted fed-up Lions fans to refer to the coach as "Marty Moron-weg".

keylime_5
12-21-2009, 07:31 PM
mort throwing crap at a wall and seeing if it sticks. I don't think Mike Holmgren even knows if he's gonna keep Mangini or not, let alone who he might hire to replace him. I would be willing to bet he'd hire an unproven head coach like Josh McDaniels was this past year before he hires Morniwheg.

I don't really understand the logic of this move, especially the longevity of the deal.

Why, in any sport, would you sign a GM to a TEN YEAR DEAL?!?!?!?!

Holmgren certainly isn't unproven as a GM/President, but he really hasn't done anything spectacular to warrant such a massive deal. I really don't understand the process that the Browns went through with this deal and I don't see them getting any better.

Eric Mangini is as good as gone though.

The length of the deal has not been determined yet. espn speculated that it might be 10 years from their "sources" (who more often than not are shady). I definitely think they'll get better b/c can't get worse at this point. How hiring a guy who has went to super bowls at every franchise he's touched won't make us better is beyond me, especially considering he is the team president and not the GM. And I'm not certain Holmgren won't keep Mangini considering he's turning the team around here down the home stretch and Holmgren himself has said he doesn't think it's fair to fire a coach after just one year.

Thumper
12-21-2009, 07:41 PM
Personally I think Mangini should leave, he doesn't seem to be a good coach and he doesn't seem personable and passionate. I think he tries to act like Andy Reid, Bill Belichek (even headed, secretive, vague with the media etc.) without having the results that Reid and Belichek have had and it is perceived as arrogance and egotistical.

I think Holmgren should get rid of Mangini and hire coaches that run Holmgren's favorite schemes (West Coast Offense and 4-3 defense).

keylime_5
12-21-2009, 07:46 PM
That worked for Parcells in Miami immediately....however on the flipside I think it might not be fair to fire a guy after one season, especially when he has the team playing hard and improving towards the end of the season like Mangini has the Browns going right now. Say we beat Oakland and Jacksonville - it would be mighty hard to justify firing a guy who won the final four games of the season. I do see the logic in firing Mangini if Holmgren feels that their philosophies crash or if he doesn't believe in Mangini being successful (if you're gonna fire him, better sooner than later POV).

M.O.T.H.
12-21-2009, 09:38 PM
I'd sign John Schuerholz (former Braves GM) to a life time deal, given the chance. :D

As for Holmgren, hopefully he can find them a QB. He's always been great with Qbs. He wont be working as closely with them, to mold them, though. But he has an eye for Qb talent at least. The team could use a little bit of everything really. Well a lot, actually. What a mess.

MidwayMonster31
12-21-2009, 10:19 PM
Good hiring for the Browns. I hope the McCaskeys were taking notes about hiring a football person to be president of your team. Holmgren will definitely focus on bringing Brady Quinn along. He also finds good talent on the offensive side of the ball. I doubt that Mangini will coexist with Holmgren, so he should be gone. Also, Jim Zorn has a nice QB coaching job waiting for him in Cleveland after this season.

Iamcanadian
12-21-2009, 11:30 PM
Unfortunately, Lerner has a track record for hiring the HC and forcing him on his GM. It will be very interesting to see if Holmgrem has the authority to fire Mangini immediately. Considering that Holmgren is a 4-3, WCO guy, Mangini doesn't appear to be his type of HC.
Parcells was allowed to bring in his own HC who believed in the same systems as Parcells. Somehow I think Holmgren may find himself in the opposite situation.

Flyboy
12-22-2009, 03:59 AM
I'm still unsure of what Holmgren's appeal is as a GM.

That makes two of us. Anyone care to fill us in?

PickedOffTwice
12-22-2009, 06:21 AM
That makes two of us. Anyone care to fill us in?

The Challenge, I guess. He has said, that he did very carefully pick his last (!) employment in the football world. Cleveland gave him basically the highest possible job in an organisation that needs rebuilding. So he's in for one last challenge as a head of football operations ( Or 'Czar' or VP or whatever).

Also: 50 Million $.

fear the elf
12-22-2009, 07:21 AM
The Challenge, I guess. He has said, that he did very carefully pick his last (!) employment in the football world. Cleveland gave him basically the highest possible job in an organisation that needs rebuilding. So he's in for one last challenge as a head of football operations ( Or 'Czar' or VP or whatever).

Also: 50 Million $.

I think they mean, why do we want Holmgren to be our GM, since he didn't do a great job in that role with Seattle.

I think it's mostly because we haven't had anyone "credible" in any phase of management in a decade. As far as I know, he isn't GM either. He may take on those responsibilities, but for now, as far as I've heard is title is President, and I don't think he's decided if he will also act as GM or bring in someone else that he likes.

BeerBaron
12-22-2009, 09:55 AM
I think they mean, why do we want Holmgren to be our GM, since he didn't do a great job in that role with Seattle.

I think it's mostly because we haven't had anyone "credible" in any phase of management in a decade. As far as I know, he isn't GM either. He may take on those responsibilities, but for now, as far as I've heard is title is President, and I don't think he's decided if he will also act as GM or bring in someone else that he likes.

I can't recall if Parcells was ever a real GM before or not, but he knows how the football world worked and filled the FO and coaching staff with "his guys." And it's worked so far in Miami. Worst to first last year, and they still have a hope for the playoffs this year even after losing their starting QB and primary RB.

I think Holmgren will find a guy he wants to be GM, find guys he wants to fill out the staff, and then let them work, simply being a "final say" kind of guy.

j05son
12-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Charlie Weis to OC in Cleveland? Lombardi thinks so... (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/DMN-Browns-need-a-fresh-start.html)

Also talks about Lombardi's opinion on if Holmgren will keep Mangini. I wasn't on the Mangini bandwagon in the beginning however I've gotten on board as of lately. For all the negative press that the media juggernauts put out like the fine over the water bottle, the James Davis injury or the union investigating Mangini's practices and even the complaints were all misinterpreted and never retracted by said juggernauts.

We're on a two game winning streak (defending Super Bowl champions and KC), almost beat the Lions (Mangini's timeout was a WTF moment though) and was very competitive against the Chargers. This is coming with an obvious talent differential not in our favor and with a lot of injuries.

It's obvious that with the way the team is playing that players are buying into Mangini's system and players are even coming out in support of the coach to be retained including the new mayor of the city Josh Cribbs.

fear the elf
12-22-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't know what I think about the Mangini situation anymore. As a lot of media outlets have mentioned, Holmgren knows the WCO and 4-3 systems and Mangini doesn't run those, so I'm not sure how well the two working together would work. We'll see what happens. I'm happy Holmgren is here though.

keylime_5
12-22-2009, 01:39 PM
give mangini another year at least. hire weiss as OC. give quinn a chance (he's only started 12 games in his career hasn't he?) with a real right tackle and some upgraded WRs/TEs to throw to. If we fail with those changes then Holmgren can rip it apart and rebuild it. That's how I'd do it.

CC.SD
12-22-2009, 02:15 PM
If Charlie Weiss is hired as OC what is the Over/Under on combined GM/Coach/OC weight? The line starts at 1000 lbs.

robert pancake gallery
12-22-2009, 02:17 PM
If Charlie Weiss is hired as OC what is the Over/Under on combined GM/Coach/OC weight? The line starts at 1000 lbs.

the over/under is ted washington

keylime_5
12-22-2009, 02:27 PM
you can throw in Rob Ryan too.

j05son
12-22-2009, 03:03 PM
A big RUMOR that I've been seeing at other boards says Randy Mueller may be Holmgren's choice for GM.

wonderbredd24
12-22-2009, 06:26 PM
A big RUMOR that I've been seeing at other boards says Randy Mueller may be Holmgren's choice for GM.

Holmgren's had a good run here, but it's definitely time to go in another direction...

CC.SD
12-22-2009, 06:31 PM
Charlie Casserly should get another shot somewhere. He was fired for passing on Bush basically and has been nothing but vindicated.

Or Holmgren can actually make his own draft picks as the new boss, the lazy bum.

cvv84
12-22-2009, 06:56 PM
Charlie Casserly should get another shot somewhere. He was fired for passing on Bush basically and has been nothing but vindicated.

Or Holmgren can actually make his own draft picks as the new boss, the lazy bum.

Actually wasn't it announced that he was going stepping down even before the 2006 draft occured because he wanted to persure a job in the NFL front office? I don't mean that he stepped down before the draft, rather that it was annonced before hand.

CC.SD
12-22-2009, 06:59 PM
Actually wasn't it announced that he was going stepping down even before the 2006 draft occured because he wanted to persure a job in the NFL front office? I don't mean that he stepped down before the draft, rather that it was annonced before hand.

I thiiiink it was shortly after but not 100%. In any case they knew Bush wouldn't be the pick, they even refused to let him take a pic near a Texans sign during some workout or another. Whether it was for signability reasons or not it definitely appeared to the public like Casserly was fed to the wolves after that pick.

cvv84
12-22-2009, 07:12 PM
I thiiiink it was shortly after but not 100%. In any case they knew Bush wouldn't be the pick, they even refused to let him take a pic near a Texans sign during some workout or another. Whether it was for signability reasons or not it definitely appeared to the public like Casserly was fed to the wolves after that pick.

I was always under the impression that it was known he was going to step down after that draft. Either way I was a huge Mario Williams fan, as I wanted the Packers to take him at #5, so Casserly definetly went out on a good note.

fear the elf
12-23-2009, 07:18 AM
I was always under the impression that it was known he was going to step down after that draft. Either way I was a huge Mario Williams fan, as I wanted the Packers to take him at #5, so Casserly definetly went out on a good note.

For some reason, I thought I remembered hearing that he was on his way out, but he was sticking around to make the pick and take the heat for the franchise, since everyone else and their mother wanted Bush.

SenorGato
12-23-2009, 09:56 AM
I hope they retain Eric and give him a shot at being a coach. Agreed with whoever said him getting fired is pretty much the kiss of death to his coaching career in the NFL, at least this decade.

Weis going to them would be crazy for their offense. Quinn might actually turn into something.

Iamcanadian
12-23-2009, 10:23 AM
give mangini another year at least. hire weiss as OC. give quinn a chance (he's only started 12 games in his career hasn't he?) with a real right tackle and some upgraded WRs/TEs to throw to. If we fail with those changes then Holmgren can rip it apart and rebuild it. That's how I'd do it.

Unfortunately, Holmgren is a 4-3, WCO guy. Mangini isn't and I don't believe the 2 cannot co exist together. I agree that Mangini deserves another year but I doubt he will get it from Holmgren if Holmgren has the authority to fire him.
Holmgren needs his people in charge from top to bottom of the organization, what good is bringing in his people who know the 4-3 and WCO if the team is running different systems. This is just typical Lerner fumbling and forces the team to change HC's whether they like it or not.
As for Quinn, he is on even shakier ground if Holmgren brings in a new HC. A WCO QB must complete a very high % of his passes for the WCO to work and so far that has been a huge weakness of Quinn in the team's current run.

Iamcanadian
12-23-2009, 10:26 AM
For some reason, I thought I remembered hearing that he was on his way out, but he was sticking around to make the pick and take the heat for the franchise, since everyone else and their mother wanted Bush.

He was on his way out but was allowed to make the final pick before leaving.

bigbluedefense
12-23-2009, 10:30 AM
Mangini deserves at least one more year. All the complaints about him, you gotta remember, he's changing the culture in Cleveland. That team was soft, he's toughening it up.

Coughlin had to do the same thing to the Giants. When he first came here everyone said he was a hardass. But it was necessary, bc the team was soft and used to easy practices and it showed on the field.

Mangini is weeding out the garbage on his team, developing a team concept, and bringing toughness to the team. It takes time to do that. He's really not as bad of a coach as ppl think.

He got rid of Edwards and Winslow bc he needed to get rid of the attitudes to fix the culture. He drafted a bunch of quality blue collar guys in the draft that are very good at their job, and also have that blue collar mentality.

He's doing all the right things. The only real knock I have on him is his qb carousel. He did the same thing in NY and I think it hurts his team. But he's doing the right things.

Give him time to put more talent on that team, and he'll improve it.

Also, he does overcoach at times. He's guilty of that too. But he's not as bad as ppl think. Overall, he's a pretty darn good coach.

Even with all his issues in New York, he had the Jets at 8-3 before Favre's arm fell off. So he can't be that bad.

keylime_5
12-23-2009, 10:31 AM
well there are at least 3 factors that might be in Mangini's favor here.

-Holmgren has said he doesn't think it's fair to fire a coach after one season, and being a former head coach himself he might be sympathetic to mangini's situation.

-Mangini has the team playing hard for him and has just won 2 games in a row,
including a win over Pittsburgh. He very well could beat the crappy Raiders at home next week making it three in a row. However improbable, if he beats Jacksonville at home also, that would mean he finished the season winning the last 4 games. Hard to justify firing a guy riding a 4 game winning streak and showing signs of improving a team he just stripped down to rebuild.

-However bad holmgren may want to hire his own guy as HC who runs a west coast offense (so he can go ahead and get WCO and 4-3 defensive personnel in as soon as he can), what if he can't hire "his guy" as HC (Gruden or whoever)? Would he settle for a guy he doesn't want as badly or wait another year with Mangini and then get "his guy?" green bay newspaper suggests maybe Holmgren himself would coach the Browns in this situation for just a year or so.

that said, it is still hard to argue that Holmgren is gonna want his own people on the staff who run a WCO and are offensive minded - two traits Mangini does not posess. Unless he believes that Mangini is capable of being our HC for a long period he might as well hire a new coach and start getting new players in as soon as he can. Both scenarios make sense.

keylime_5
12-23-2009, 10:37 AM
Mangini deserves at least one more year. All the complaints about him, you gotta remember, he's changing the culture in Cleveland. That team was soft, he's toughening it up.

Coughlin had to do the same thing to the Giants. When he first came here everyone said he was a hardass. But it was necessary, bc the team was soft and used to easy practices and it showed on the field.

Mangini is weeding out the garbage on his team, developing a team concept, and bringing toughness to the team. It takes time to do that. He's really not as bad of a coach as ppl think.

He got rid of Edwards and Winslow bc he needed to get rid of the attitudes to fix the culture. He drafted a bunch of quality blue collar guys in the draft that are very good at their job, and also have that blue collar mentality.

He's doing all the right things. The only real knock I have on him is his qb carousel. He did the same thing in NY and I think it hurts his team. But he's doing the right things.

Give him time to put more talent on that team, and he'll improve it.

Also, he does overcoach at times. He's guilty of that too. But he's not as bad as ppl think. Overall, he's a pretty darn good coach.

Even with all his issues in New York, he had the Jets at 8-3 before Favre's arm fell off. So he can't be that bad.

this is totally true. as the talent gets better, so will the browns record with mangini. he has the blueprint that will work if he can get good players. the trouble might be finding a good QB, but that is the folly of any bad team. Give the guy another year and see what kind of improvement is made.

cvv84
12-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Holmgren was brought in for a reason - and its not to be sympathetic to Mangini. He's going to bring in his own guys on the field and on the sideline.

Hell the Browns can pay me millions to feel sorry for Mangini. I'll take it no questions asked. But if you want to win you have start over, yet again.

PickedOffTwice
12-23-2009, 11:17 AM
Alright guys, I'M FED UP WITH THIS MIKE HOLMGREN BS!! HEAR ME? BS!!!

How many games has the guy won since we've hired him? ZERO. Count'em. I will REFUSE to inveset any more money in this joke of an organsization as long as a FORMER HIGH SHOOL COACH runs the show.

Maybe SLo Lerner will wise up, swallow the bitter pill and pay out Holmgren. The sollution is that easy. Just hire a Hall of Fame coach off the street, let him draft a future hall of fame QB. Fix the defense and we have a contender as soon as next season. WE THE CLEVELAND FANS DESERVE A WINNER. AND MIKE HOLMGREN HASN'T WON A SINGLE GAME IN CLEVELAND. REBUILDING MY ASS, WE HAD A PLAYOFF CONTENDER AT HAND AND HE RUINED IT.

Randy Lerner is an idiot for hiring a HS COACH!!! I repeat: HIGH SCHOOL COACH! Can't he see that the fans want to WIN?

Everybody, please stop wasting money on this joke of an organization. And Mr. Lerner: please initiate the steps I mentioned or SELL THE TEAM!

GO BROWNS!

Iamcanadian
12-23-2009, 11:34 AM
Holmgren was brought in for a reason - and its not to be sympathetic to Mangini. He's going to bring in his own guys on the field and on the sideline.

Hell the Browns can pay me millions to feel sorry for Mangini. I'll take it no questions asked. But if you want to win you have start over, yet again.

I totally agree. I don't think people realize how hard it would be to have Holmgren making all the decisions for a HC who runs a totally different system from his own. You cannot not have an organization where all the people who Holmgren hires are 4-3, WCO personnel and expect them to find talent for Mangini's systems. They cannot co exist. better to make the change over now before it blows up in their faces.
Lerner should have hired a 3-4 guy to run his organization and now the fans and Mangini must pay the price once again by starting over. Everybody has to be on the same page for a franchise to be successful, you cannot have people going in different directions and expect real success down the road.
I was in full favour of giving Mangini more time before this hire but now I think he has to go if we want long term success.

keylime_5
12-23-2009, 11:37 AM
prospects of our D-Line if we run a 4-3 look good. Rogers and Williams at DT and Roth at DE. If we draft Derrick Morgan that's a pretty good front four. Linebackers would need a makeover though....Jackson would be a good WLB and Wimbley can do what Orakpo does in Washington as a SLB/nickel DE, but guys like Bowens, Veikune, Trusnik, Hall, and Benard would have no place in a 4-3. [/getting ahead of self]

SenorGato
12-23-2009, 07:37 PM
Unfortunately, Holmgren is a 4-3, WCO guy. Mangini isn't and I don't believe the 2 cannot co exist together. I agree that Mangini deserves another year but I doubt he will get it from Holmgren if Holmgren has the authority to fire him.
Holmgren needs his people in charge from top to bottom of the organization, what good is bringing in his people who know the 4-3 and WCO if the team is running different systems. This is just typical Lerner fumbling and forces the team to change HC's whether they like it or not.
As for Quinn, he is on even shakier ground if Holmgren brings in a new HC. A WCO QB must complete a very high % of his passes for the WCO to work and so far that has been a huge weakness of Quinn in the team's current run.

Why would he fire Rob Ryan and does he really care that much about the D as long as it's good?

That's just an outdated approach to coaching. He's an offensive coach first, and he's taking the GM role.

Iunno, I think more changes will be done to the offense than the D.

Thumper
12-24-2009, 02:03 PM
Apparently Mike Holmgren really likes Sam Bradford and he really likes Anquan Boldin. I wonder if he can get them. If he does get them the signs would point to him installing a west coast offense because those two are nearly ideal for that system. Eric Mangini does not run a west coast offense. Also I would expect Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson to be traded.

PACKmanN
12-24-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't really understand the logic of this move, especially the longevity of the deal.

Why, in any sport, would you sign a GM to a TEN YEAR DEAL?!?!?!?!

Holmgren certainly isn't unproven as a GM/President, but he really hasn't done anything spectacular to warrant such a massive deal. I really don't understand the process that the Browns went through with this deal and I don't see them getting any better.

Eric Mangini is as good as gone though.

I guess its the amount of years that it will take to rebuild the franchise. That team is a mess all over, but I would trade for the left side of their o-line.

cvv84
01-07-2010, 02:43 PM
Holmgren says that Mangini and entire staff will be back in 2010.

fear the elf
01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
Brian Daboll too? ****!

jriles0522
01-07-2010, 02:57 PM
Brian Daboll too? ****!

Daboll is going to be Holmgren's little ***** on offense, take that to the bank. I'm not too worried. Holmboy will be the OC, Daboll just a puppet.

keylime_5
01-07-2010, 03:31 PM
I think Holmgren has a thing or two to teach the boys about offensive coaching. There should be more WCO stuff next year implemented one way or another.

the magical mangenie
01-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Holmboy will be the OC, Daboll just a puppet.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1338/pinochhio.jpg
Figure 1 - Daboll as a Real Boy (thanks to Jimangini Cricket's Magic)

keylime_5
01-07-2010, 04:23 PM
best first 6 posts ever??? I don't think there is any doubt.