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Day One Pick
12-16-2009, 07:12 AM
If you were named the new GM of an NFL expansion team and you had your choice between Ben Roethlisberger, Aaron Rodgers, or Phillip Rivers which one would you pick?

phlysac
12-16-2009, 08:10 AM
If concussions weren't an issue, Roethlisberger, certainly. This isn't a fantasy football question. Roethlisberger has 2 Super Bowl victories and, up until the last few weeks, has been more clutch than any QB in the NFL.

and this is coming from someone that HATES the Steelers more than any NFL team.

terribletowel39
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
I wanted to vote Big Ben but taking into account this year. I don't really like what I have seen. He seems out of shape and very non-chalant about the whole season (the whole team does). It doesn't look like he came out hungry at all which is sad. He is also probably playing at around 260 right now. Which is stupid. Makes me sad. :(

I voted Rodgers because I think he is awesome.

Rivers would be 2nd.

They are all really close though.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 08:18 AM
Give me Rivers in the Air C. system, with Turner calling plays. If anything changes, in terms of QB, system or Turner, then I would re-evaluate my decision. But if these 3 components are there I'd take that system first, coach 2nd, QB 3rd, in terms of priority.

Splat
12-16-2009, 08:37 AM
I have a man crush on Rivers I know Chiefs fans and heck alot of NFL fans hate him but on the field I would take him any day of the week.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 08:45 AM
My man crush is Troy Polamalu. The guy is amazing!

no bare feet
12-16-2009, 08:49 AM
Rodgers, to me is the best Qb not named Brees, Manning or brady.

JF4
12-16-2009, 08:54 AM
I take Roethlisberger, then it's 2A and 2B with Rodgers and Rivers.

Can't deny Roethliserger's playoff success and experience. Might not be the best statistically but I think in terms of what you're looking for in a QB of a championship team, qualities like leadership, consistency, game management, and clutchness (not a word i know) Berger is the best of the 3.

bigbluedefense
12-16-2009, 08:57 AM
If my team played in a dome, the west coast, or the south it would be:

1. Rivers
2. Roethlisberger
3. Rodgers

If my team was in the northeast it would be:

1. Roethlisberger
2. Rodgers
3. Rivers

RealityCheck
12-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Rivers, to me is the best Qb not named Brees, Manning or brady.
Fixed IMO.

Day One Pick
12-16-2009, 09:03 AM
I like both these points Phlysac and JF4 made.

If concussions weren't an issue, Roethlisberger, certainly. This isn't a fantasy football question. Roethlisberger has 2 Super Bowl victories and, up until the last few weeks, has been more clutch than any QB in the NFL.

Can't deny Roethliserger's playoff success and experience. Might not be the best statistically but I think in terms of what you're looking for in a QB of a championship team, qualities like leadership, consistency, game management, and clutchness (not a word i know) Berger is the best of the 3.

tjsunstein
12-16-2009, 09:11 AM
I'm too biased. Even so, I'd have a tough time choosing between Rivers and Rodgers. Not a big fan of Big Ben even given his success.

MetSox17
12-16-2009, 09:14 AM
Rivers. Rivers. Rivers. Rivers.

FUNBUNCHER
12-16-2009, 09:42 AM
As pro prospects prior to the draft - Rivers.

As pros - Roethlisberger with Rivers a hair behind him. I give the advantage to Big Ben because of the rings.

I could live with Rodgers and not really complain about it.

General Zod
12-16-2009, 09:44 AM
Aaron Rodgers. Love the guy. Having to sit and wait behind Favre. Dropping on draft day. He comes out and plays his ass off. I can see him tearing up my Vikes D for many years.

Rivers is awesome yes. But I cant stand his cocky mouth. Every time I see his face, I just want to hit it with my fist.

Mr.Regular
12-16-2009, 09:54 AM
This is really tough. I'm biased though, I've watched every Rodgers game and am as hardcore Packer fan as there is and I know Rodgers is lights out. He has the arm, the smarts, the wheels, the accuracy, and the leadership. Only thing he needs to do is get to the playoffs, which he will this year. But I still almost went Rivers, he's really, really good. Roethlisberger was just a notch below IMO, though I still think he's a top 6 QB in terms of who you'd want on your team for the long haul.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 10:05 AM
hahahahhaha

AntoinCD
12-16-2009, 10:13 AM
No question its gotta be Rivers. Big Ben has the rings but he also had the best defense and the Steelers won the first of the two recent Superbowls despite Roethlisberger's performance.

For a franchise QB for the next ten years I cant look passed Rivers. Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers have the same thing in common where they hold on to the ball trying to make plays and it can either help or hurt the team. As far as pure QB and leader goes Rivers wins and it's not close IMO

Job
12-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Rivers is a stud.

BeerBaron
12-16-2009, 10:21 AM
Big Ben is the only one with rings, and he's a master of avoiding sacks and buying time for the big play.....buuuuuut.....

Give me Rivers.

P-L
12-16-2009, 10:22 AM
Rivers, with Rodgers just a bit behind. Big Ben is too inconsistent for my liking.

RufusMcDaniel
12-16-2009, 10:24 AM
I want a guy who doesn't lose in December except this Christmas...Rivers it is!

Smooth Criminal
12-16-2009, 10:27 AM
If the Steelers defense didn't blow 5 4th quarter leads this year people would think Ben was having a great year.

Day One Pick
12-16-2009, 10:36 AM
If the Steelers defense didn't blow 5 4th quarter leads this year people would think Ben was having a great year.


Yeah you're right. His numbers are only a tad behind Rodgers and Rivers numbers, really only in TD passes and Ben missed one game. He's 3 behind Rivers and 6 behind Rodgers.

Don't forget to mention the special teams TD's and big returns against the Steelers this year.

vidae
12-16-2009, 10:43 AM
For me it'd be Rodgers, no question. Huge fan of his.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 10:50 AM
On another note, I am happy to see Alex smith doing well. Hopefully he can progress and get some of his respect back. Also, it's very hard to root for Rivers and some of his antics. I think only guy worse off is Cutler. I can't stand him.

the_legend_killer
12-16-2009, 11:09 AM
1. Roethlisberger (He's got the rings)
2. Rivers (Has been damn good, especially in December)
3. Rodgers (Has been good since he's started at the beginning of last year, but has the smallest sample size)

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 11:25 AM
There's a certain measure here, the rings, by which only Ben can be the answer. But those Steeler teams were just that, teams. In a complete vacuum, totally equal footing, I don't know how you don't choose Rivers here. btw why is Rodgers in this thread, it is traditionally Eli...what happened? It's the 04 QB argument. After all Schaub isn't a total disgrace and even Losman is back in the league. Best ever.

BeerBaron
12-16-2009, 11:33 AM
There's a certain measure here, the rings, by which only Ben can be the answer. But those Steeler teams were just that, teams. In a complete vacuum, totally equal footing, I don't know how you don't choose Rivers here. btw why is Rodgers in this thread, it is traditionally Eli...what happened? It's the 04 QB argument. After all Schaub isn't a total disgrace and even Losman is back in the league. Best ever.

Marino, Elway, Kelly = win. When 3 from this class are in the hall of fame and are in the top of every major passing record category, we can discuss further.

Job
12-16-2009, 11:37 AM
20 years can be long.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 11:53 AM
Marino, Elway, Kelly = win. When 3 from this class are in the hall of fame and are in the top of every major passing record category, we can discuss further.

Okay I'll see you then because they've got a great shot and the ring situation isn't looking too bad either, imo.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 12:13 PM
If the Steelers defense didn't blow 5 4th quarter leads this year people would think Ben was having a great year.
Welcome to last year with Rivers and SD's defense without Merriman.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 12:16 PM
Ben is a hard QB to evaluate. He has all the tools to be good, but the way he plays is a double edge sword. He holds on to the ball way too long. But because he does that two things usually happen. He makes plays or he gets sacked. Now the downside of that is his long term health. If he keeps getting concussions I can see his career ending really quick.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 12:17 PM
On another note, I am happy to see Alex smith doing well. Hopefully he can progress and get some of his respect back. Also, it's very hard to root for Rivers and some of his antics. I think only guy worse off is Cutler. I can't stand him.
I personally think Rivers so called antics have been overblown on this board and everywhere else for that matter. It's no more than what Favre did in his prime. And Rivers never crosses that line like Brady did with his trash talking. And especially not Cutler and the whole grabbing his crotch towards an opposing sidelines either. The thing that I find comical is that people actually take Rivers' trash talking seriously. It's the same things he says to his own famiily and friends when they're playing background football. What would be great is if I can see someone videotape his dad trash talking him as he's losing to the older Rivers.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 12:22 PM
I personally think Rivers so called antics have been overblown on this board and everywhere else for that matter. It's no more than what Favre did in his prime. And Rivers never crosses that line like Brady did with his trash talking. And especially not Cutler and the whole grabbing his crotch towards an opposing sidelines either. The thing that I find comical is that people actually take Rivers' trash talking seriously. It's the same things he says to his own famiily and friends when they're playing background football. What would be great is if I can see someone videotape his dad trash talking him as he's losing to the older Rivers.

Well I wasn't talking specific to this board, but rather in general. Rivers trash talking to opposing fans in Indy and then to Cutler as well. After a while you just want to tell the guy to shutup and play. Now Cutler is no Saint as well. He is even lower on the list of Qbs I can't stand.

Stuff like that people expect from other position players, not from Qbs. But it comes off like Rivers is a punk. You just want to tell the guy to shut up and play. Let your actions speak for themselves. If he did that in NY he'd get his butt owned. Sanchez, already, is rubbing people the wrong way here with some of the stuff he is doing.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 12:22 PM
Both Ben and Rodgers have everything you want in a QB. Ben, in particular, is especially clutch. People rag on him for his first Superbowl abysmal performance, but he was pretty lights out in the playoffs leading to that first Superbowl win IMO.

However, if you were to ignore the past accomplishments and solely see the QB that you want to start now for the future endeavors, I would go with Rivers'. Ben's and Rodger's playing style leads to too many risks of injuries. Ben especially has to learn to get rid of the ball instead of always trying to extend the play. At this rate, he might be out of the league in three years, going the way of Steve Young and company with concussion problems.

So Rivers in the end (homer bias and all). Plus I love this vid of Rivers:

http://www.yidio.com/philip-rivers-unmasked-beautiful-mind/id/1290878033

Rivers: "I hate to lose more than I like to win"

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Both Ben and Rodgers have everything you want in a QB. Ben, in particular, is especially clutch. People rag on him for his first Superbowl abysmal performance, but he was pretty lights out in the playoffs leading to that first Superbowl win IMO.

However, if you were to ignore the past accomplishments and solely see the QB that you want to start now for the future endeavors, I would go with Rivers'. Ben's and Rodger's playing style leads to too many risks of injuries. Ben especially has to learn to get rid of the ball instead of always trying to extend the play. At this rate, he might be out of the league in three years, going the way of Steve Young and company with concussion problems.

So Rivers in the end (homer bias and all). Plus I love this vid of Rivers:

http://www.yidio.com/philip-rivers-unmasked-beautiful-mind/id/1290878033



Ben was lights out, but Whisenhunt's offense and the way he was developed was perfect. I had a huge man crush on KW. Great OC and the Steelers and even Chargers developed their respective QBs very, very well. Cam Cameron and Whisenhunt did amazing jobs. Within that frame work, both Qbs developed very well. But in the most important game of the year Ben did pull a joke job. But I knew they'd win. Whisenhunt, again came through, with that brillant trick play TD and LeBeau is a legend! Just a very sick trio of coaches, Cowher-KW-DL.

I always tell this to our fan base. The two teams above did an amazing job with their QBs while we took a coach with zero OC experience and made him an OC, and we took a guy with 11 years of OC experience and made him a QB coach, lol. That's the non sense we pulled to develop our QB. Suffice to say, that OC, isn't in the NFL anymore, and now in Canada coaching a team there. That's how we developed our QB.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Well I wasn't talking specific to this board, but rather in general. Rivers trash talking to opposing fans in Indy and then to Cutler as well. After a while you just want to tell the guy to shutup and play. Now Cutler is no Saint as well. He is even lower on the list of Qbs I can't stand.

Stuff like that people expect from other position players, not from Qbs. But it comes off like Rivers is a punk. You just want to tell the guy to shut up and play. Let your actions speak for themselves. If he did that in NY he'd get his butt owned. Sanchez, already, is rubbing people the wrong way here with some of the stuff he is doing.
And that's why you have Eli as you QB. He does all that. Rivers lets his passion and his emotions run through him like Favre did. Perhaps, he acts like a kid when he's playing football because he knows that they're all grownups playing a kids game.

And saying that only other players in other positions can do that is silly and hypocritical. Especially when some of the bigger names (like Brady) does it less but to a much more extreme degree than Rivers. As long as he backs up what he saids, which he has done, then it's alright. And he hasn't done anything wrong at all. It's really only bad media perception IMO. You see him screaming at the fans on the sidelines but you don't even know what's being said. The times you do hear talking to the fans is when he's telling them that he'll be back after tearing his ACL in the Indy game. I do love how the Colts fans were cheering that he was leaving with an injury in that game though.

It's why SD is a better place for him than New York. He gets to be himself in San Diego with his crazy Alabama roots and antics, as opposed to what people want him to be in New York. Of course, there's a good likelyhood that he would probably still be playing the same way and telling New York fans to shut up in the process.

Hines
12-16-2009, 12:39 PM
No question its gotta be Rivers. Big Ben has the rings but he also had the best defense and the Steelers won the first of the two recent Superbowls despite Roethlisberger's performance.

For a franchise QB for the next ten years I cant look passed Rivers. Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers have the same thing in common where they hold on to the ball trying to make plays and it can either help or hurt the team. As far as pure QB and leader goes Rivers wins and it's not close IMO

Big Ben brought the team 80+ yards on that final drive to win the game.

I voted Ben for the reason that he's the only champion out of the group and I am a homer.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 12:48 PM
Big Ben brought the team 80+ yards on that final drive to win the game.

I voted Ben for the reason that he's the only champion out of the group and I am a homer.
Good for you. I'm a homer as well, but I feel that you at least supported your argument well. I'm also on the Fire Bruce Arian bandwagon. Maybe because his style of offense only seems to work against the Chargers.

Job
12-16-2009, 12:49 PM
Big Ben has me so confused. He plays dumb, can't read a defense at all, looks sloppy always running around in circles in the pocket, and yet he almost always makes something happen out of what should have been nothing. He's quite unique.

Hines
12-16-2009, 12:49 PM
Good for you. I'm a homer as well, but I feel that you at least supported your argument well. I'm also on the Fire Bruce Arian bandwagon. Maybe because his style of offense only seems to work against the Chargers.


The homer in me made me chose Big Ben. Rivers is very close behind. I have him as the 5th best quarterback in the league. Arians is a moron and I hate him.

Hines
12-16-2009, 12:50 PM
Big Ben has me so confused. He plays dumb, can't read a defense at all, looks sloppy always running around in circles in the pocket, and yet he almost always makes something happen out of what should have been nothing. He's quite unique.

That's backyard football for you.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 12:51 PM
Well I wasn't talking specific to this board, but rather in general. Rivers trash talking to opposing fans in Indy and then to Cutler as well. After a while you just want to tell the guy to shutup and play. Now Cutler is no Saint as well. He is even lower on the list of Qbs I can't stand.

Stuff like that people expect from other position players, not from Qbs. But it comes off like Rivers is a punk. You just want to tell the guy to shut up and play. Let your actions speak for themselves. If he did that in NY he'd get his butt owned. Sanchez, already, is rubbing people the wrong way here with some of the stuff he is doing.

This is kind of ridiculous, I am instituting a policy that requires examples to be from less than two years ago. Randy the Patriot was completely 'reformed' in one week, and there's a bunch of other examples, but all this Rivers stuff is dragged up constantly. It's annoying (especially since it was completely overblown to begin with...) and probably getting in the way of enjoying some stellar QB play for a lot of people.

oh and since you mentioned it twice he is definitely shutting up and playing, has been for a while.

terribletowel39
12-16-2009, 01:03 PM
Big Ben has me so confused. He plays dumb, can't read a defense at all, looks sloppy always running around in circles in the pocket, and yet he almost always makes something happen out of what should have been nothing. He's quite unique.
This is actually something that many believe but isn't entirely true.

For whatever reason, when a play is brought in from the sideline, Ben can't quite grasp what is going to happen. He snaps and if no one is open he improvizes and most of the time makes something happen or takes a sack.

When (and I say that loosely because BA is an idiot and this rarely happens) Ben is allowed to run a no-huddle offense, he is able to pick apart any defense, he chooses when to run and when to throw and most of the time (I would say 85-90% of the time) the drive ends in some kind of score.

It is really confusing that they don't run it more because when it is ran, it works.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 01:06 PM
This is kind of ridiculous, I am instituting a policy that requires examples to be from less than two years ago. Randy the Patriot was completely 'reformed' in one week, and there's a bunch of other examples, but all this Rivers stuff is dragged up constantly. It's annoying (especially since it was completely overblown to begin with...) and probably getting in the way of enjoying some stellar QB play for a lot of people.

oh and since you mentioned it twice he is definitely shutting up and playing, has been for a while.

Yeah he has been for a while, but how is that different from your fan base hating on Eli for something that happened 4-5 years ago? Doesn't that have a time limit too? But you are right he has gotten better, but it;s hard for us east coast people to know because we don't see Chargers game as much as you do since your fans.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 01:11 PM
Yeah he has been for a while, but how is that different from your fan base hating on Eli for something that happened 4-5 years ago? Doesn't that have a time limit too? But you are right he has gotten better, but it;s hard for us east coast people to know because we don't see Chargers game as much as you do since your fans.
I think only Bantx still holds a grudge against Eli after 5 years. Of course, that may change if Rivers gets a Superbowl ring as well this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 01:11 PM
And that's why you have Eli as you QB. He does all that. Rivers lets his passion and his emotions run through him like Favre did. Perhaps, he acts like a kid when he's playing football because he knows that they're all grownups playing a kids game.

And saying that only other players in other positions can do that is silly and hypocritical. Especially when some of the bigger names (like Brady) does it less but to a much more extreme degree than Rivers. As long as he backs up what he saids, which he has done, then it's alright. And he hasn't done anything wrong at all. It's really only bad media perception IMO. You see him screaming at the fans on the sidelines but you don't even know what's being said. The times you do hear talking to the fans is when he's telling them that he'll be back after tearing his ACL in the Indy game. I do love how the Colts fans were cheering that he was leaving with an injury in that game though.

It's why SD is a better place for him than New York. He gets to be himself in San Diego with his crazy Alabama roots and antics, as opposed to what people want him to be in New York. Of course, there's a good likelyhood that he would probably still be playing the same way and telling New York fans to shut up in the process.

Yeah Eli's personality does suit NY. If he was volatile it would have been very bad early on. But that's one of the reasons why I liked him and supported him, while some of our fan base hated on him.

Yeah NY is not a place to fight the fans.. This goes for any sport. I still remember when Cliff F. for the mets opened his mouth regarding something and they kept booing him even more. I am not baseball fan, but in this area, baseball is # 1. Here in this market you don't want to say stupid things, which would always get shockey into trouble. And the media is shrewd as well. They would always try to bait him to say something, and he would.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-16-2009, 01:12 PM
I don't really hate Rivers for his antics, I mostly just hate him for being the QB of my 4th favourite team(Broncos 1st, 29 teams tied for 2nd, Steelers 3rd, Chargers 4th). Also this thread is funny because reading the replies, you'd expect Ben to be doing well. Then you see the poll results...

Anyway I voted for Rivers *spit*. There isn't really anything you can point to that he doesn't do well, and you can't say that about Rodgers or Ben. Unfortunately.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Also the best QB class this decade isn't 2004. It's not 2006 either, because that hasn't turned out so well lately. It's 2005. Rodgers is really good, Alex Smith is turning out to be good, and then of course there is...

http://westsidewill.com/newblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Kyle-Orton.jpg

Shiver
12-16-2009, 01:49 PM
I love Rivers, really like Rodgers and is unimpressed with Roethlisberger.

TitleTown088
12-16-2009, 02:07 PM
Steve Young #2. :)

I honestly I couldn't say Rodgers as he's only completed one season and never been to the playoffs. I do think he could turn out to be the best. I'd go with Rivers as the best QB, but you can't deny the success that big troll has had in Pitt.

Matthew Jones
12-16-2009, 02:12 PM
I was a Rivers fan going into the 2004 draft and I still think he was the best quarterback out of that class. No disrespect to Big Ben or Rodgers but I think Rivers has them both beat.

RaiderNation
12-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Ive watched Rivers kill us twice a season for too long. The guy is probably the 4th best QB in the league now IMO.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 02:28 PM
Yeah he has been for a while, but how is that different from your fan base hating on Eli for something that happened 4-5 years ago? Doesn't that have a time limit too? But you are right he has gotten better, but it;s hard for us east coast people to know because we don't see Chargers game as much as you do since your fans.

It's definitely in the past but I do think there's a distinction between jawing on the field and Eli's shenanigans. However I am no longer willing to discuss it.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 02:39 PM
It's definitely in the past but I do think there's a distinction between jawing on the field and Eli's shenanigans. However I am no longer willing to discuss it.

We shall never speak of this again.

Xenos
12-16-2009, 02:41 PM
We shall never speak of this again.

Well if it's any comfort, I've always respected Eli, except when we play him then it's on. I blame Archie more than anything for what happened. Heck, SD got Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman in that blockbuster trade so I'm very happy. Funny thing was that the game this year had all three playing a part at the end: Rivers with the game tying TD, Kaeding with the game winning extra point, and Merriman with the game ending sack on Eli. It was quite poetic.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Well if it's any comfort, I've always respected Eli, except when we play him then it's on. I blame Archie more than anything for what happened. Heck, SD got Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman in that blockbuster trade so I'm very happy. Funny thing was that the game this year had all three playing a part at the end: Rivers with the game tying TD, Kaeding with the game winning extra point, and Merriman with the game ending sack on Eli. It was quite poetic.

Yeah i never thought it that way. Eh, I was just happy he played well when he played in SD, and again he played well against you guys. I just wanted him to have 2 good games. The rest falls on two idiot coordinators, 1 for not throwing from the 4 yard line, and the other and his defense got getting bent over and owned. But then again, that defense is used to that now. Just see the Eagles game for that. 38 points and 500 yards on offense AT HOME, and we still lose, lol. At that point it's just comical.

wicket
12-16-2009, 02:53 PM
I'd pick rodgers, as an expansion team the OLine wont be up to par straight away so you better have a qb who can play whilst he is running for his life.

Job
12-16-2009, 03:10 PM
I'd pick rodgers, as an expansion team the OLine wont be up to par straight away so you better have a qb who can play whilst he is running for his life.

Well, it's not like Roethlisberger hasn't shown he can do that too.

Day One Pick
12-16-2009, 03:25 PM
I'd pick rodgers, as an expansion team the OLine wont be up to par straight away so you better have a qb who can play whilst he is running for his life.

If you're taking that into account, Roethlisberger is your man. I can't recall ever seeing him sacked by just one guy.

tjsunstein
12-16-2009, 04:35 PM
Also the best QB class this decade isn't 2004. It's not 2006 either, because that hasn't turned out so well lately. It's 2005. Rodgers is really good, Alex Smith is turning out to be good, and then of course there is...

http://westsidewill.com/newblog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Kyle-Orton.jpg

How did you even get this picture? Almost on stalker status here, Chris.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-16-2009, 04:38 PM
How did you even get this picture? Almost on stalker status here, Chris.

Teh internets, where else?

katnip
12-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Rodgers

I don't think Rivers can take the hits he does. Big Ben could, but not as good a passer to me.

CC.SD
12-16-2009, 05:10 PM
If you're taking that into account, Roethlisberger is your man. I can't recall ever seeing him sacked by just one guy.

I have seen it plenty of times and I'm not even a Steeler fan. He's better at taking hits than Rodg/Rivers but that's a weird assertion.

Rosebud
12-16-2009, 05:30 PM
Of the three I'd go with Rivers, although the homer in me is screaming that I'd never be able to prefer a young QB to eli who's just such a remarkable command of our offense and team, he's already a better play caller than our OC and really stands out in pre-snap adjustments while being a tough SOB who can move around in the pocket pretty well.

But of the three it's Rivers for me, both Rodgers and Roethlisberger hold the ball way too long for my liking, Rivers will hold on too long at times as well but he's far better in that respect than either of the other two. I also feel he's got the better brain before the snap than Roethlisberger. If I had to rate them I'd go Rivers, Rodgers and then Roethlisberger, with Rivers and Rodgers literally being decided by how well they are at getting the ball out quick and eating up yards quickly.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-16-2009, 05:32 PM
I have seen it plenty of times and I'm not even a Steeler fan. He's better at taking hits than Rodg/Rivers but that's a weird assertion.

I'll just take a QB who is good at not getting hit. Cutler was really good at it back when he could throw accurately.

Rosebud
12-16-2009, 05:38 PM
I'll just take a QB who is good at not getting hit. Cutler was really good at it back when he could throw accurately.

He did used to have an offensive line and a big receiver he could trust to win jump balls and get of the jams when blitzes were coming. Cutler hasn't played well but he's in a really god awful situation right now with a coach who's let dumb mistakes and penalties cripple his teams for a long time now.

AJHawk50
12-16-2009, 05:38 PM
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Philip Rivers
3. Ben Roethlisberger

San Diego Chicken
12-16-2009, 06:33 PM
Wow, tough crowd. Ben Roethlisberger lead a super bowl winning drive less than one year ago, and now he can't buy a vote in this poll? I get that it's a what have you done for me lately type of league, and I love Aaron Rodgers, but for him to have triple the votes of Big Ben is... perplexing.

Brodeur
12-16-2009, 06:41 PM
If my team played in a dome, the west coast, or the south it would be:

1. Rivers
2. Roethlisberger
3. Rodgers

If my team was in the northeast it would be:

1. Roethlisberger
2. Rodgers
3. Rivers

Rivers wouldn't succeed in New York, we get it.

San Diego Chicken
12-16-2009, 06:48 PM
Rivers wouldn't succeed in New York, we get it.

Except, of course, when he needs to lead a two minute drive for the win in Giants stadium...

umphrey
12-16-2009, 07:38 PM
I voted Rodgers because I'm a Packer homer (why lie)

It's easy to make a case for him though. All those quarterbacks are accurate passers with good arm strength, but Rodgers is easily the best runner. He's picked up a bunch of 3rd and 4th down conversions with his legs this year especially during clutch time in big games. He easily has the most growth potential. This year he was holding the ball too long for the first 8 games, but since the Tampa game he has looked like an all pro escaping sacks. He is also ridiculous on third down and throwing on the run - I'm sure you've heard the stats but if you haven't look them up. I'll end with saying he's a great leader on the field and a role model off of it. He handled the Favre situation wonderfully and really earned the respect of our offense once named the starter.

LonghornsLegend
12-16-2009, 07:45 PM
Well if it's any comfort, I've always respected Eli, except when we play him then it's on. I blame Archie more than anything for what happened. Heck, SD got Rivers, Kaeding, and Merriman in that blockbuster trade so I'm very happy. Funny thing was that the game this year had all three playing a part at the end: Rivers with the game tying TD, Kaeding with the game winning extra point, and Merriman with the game ending sack on Eli. It was quite poetic.

I always thought Archie was behind it also and that he didn't want both of his sons to play in the same conference which was kinda arrogant IMO. I don't put it all on Eli, but it seemed like that whole situation happened because he was a Manning and they felt they could pick and choose almost where he got to play. I think he wanted to go to any NFC team to not face Peyton in the playoffs consistently at least until the SB, I don't hold it against Eli but it always seemed like they were trying to say they were bigger then the draft by pulling that move.

FUNBUNCHER
12-16-2009, 11:56 PM
Wow, tough crowd. Ben Roethlisberger lead a super bowl winning drive less than one year ago, and now he can't buy a vote in this poll? I get that it's a what have you done for me lately type of league, and I love Aaron Rodgers, but for him to have triple the votes of Big Ben is... perplexing.

Don't be shocked. It's called 'hating'.:rolleyes:

vikes_28
12-17-2009, 12:14 AM
Rodgers by a long shot.

bantx
12-17-2009, 12:43 AM
I'm not going to talk about the Eli, Rivers thing because I've kinda slightly let it go, but I still hate him just quietly hating him..but anyways the homer in me must pick Rivers.

d34ng3l021
12-17-2009, 05:02 AM
Matt Ryan. Oh wait...

I would have to go with consistent Mr. Rivers at #1. He has a career QB rating of 95.3, which places him at #2 in the all-time list of QBs who have attempted at least 1500 passes. Since he took over the starting job in 2006, the Chargers have finished with the following wins: 14, 11, 8, and 10 (out of 13). Philip Rivers and the Chargers are 16-0 in December since Rivers took over, and they have made the playoffs and won the division crown ever since then. Even the playoffs themselves haven't been terribly disappointing, as they have been able to knock down some good teams.

06: Lost to New England after a bye.
07: Beat Tennessee, Indy, Lost to New England in AFCCG
08: Beat Indy, lost to Pittsburgh in divisional (?) round.
09: ???

Rivers has it all except the Superbowl ring, but is only in his 4th season starting. He just turned 28 years old and has another 6-7 years at least to get over the SB hump. Comparing him to Rodgers and Roethlisberger, Rodgers doesn't even have a playoff appearance (though better career statistics) and Roethlisberger had championship caliber defenses during his SB runs.

Looking at the overall picture, are these Hall of Fame bound credentials or what?

bigbluedefense
12-17-2009, 07:29 AM
I think a lot of you guys are short changing Ben.

Ben has made iconic plays in his career that neither Rivers or Rodgers make. Of course, Rodgers and Rivers do certain things better than him as well.

Eh, its complicated. How can you compare qbs without factoring in the talent around them, the system they play in, and where they play? its almost impossible.

thats why for the most part, i stay away from qb comparisons. im all for evaluating players and discussing what they do great and what they don't do great, but its pretty hard making a list when so much of what we think we know, we don't know at all.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2009, 07:36 AM
I think a lot of you guys are short changing Ben.

Ben has made iconic plays in his career that neither Rivers or Rodgers make. Of course, Rodgers and Rivers do certain things better than him as well.

Eh, its complicated. How can you compare qbs without factoring in the talent around them, the system they play in, and where they play? its almost impossible.

thats why for the most part, i stay away from qb comparisons. im all for evaluating players and discussing what they do great and what they don't do great, but its pretty hard making a list when so much of what we think we know, we don't know at all.


You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.

Bucs_Rule
12-17-2009, 08:15 AM
You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.

You compare college prospects every season.

umphrey
12-17-2009, 08:17 AM
You don't comparing QBs is a joke. All these guys play in different systems, with different OCs, with different talent. And on top of that they play in different cities with different weather, lol, and people want to compare their play? To me, it never made sense to do it.

If you want to compare Rivers, compare him to all the systems/QBs that Turner has been in. Compare him to Aikman, it still won't be accurate because of the rules of that time and players around him, but it will be a lot more accurate that comparing Rivers to Ben and Rodgers.

I fully understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but if we all subscribe to that theory we might as well shut down the forums.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2009, 08:19 AM
You compare college prospects every season.

Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.

Bucs_Rule
12-17-2009, 08:22 AM
Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.

When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.

umphrey
12-17-2009, 08:26 AM
When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.

To be fair, a big part of that discussion is if the prospect will fit with the team or not. Big Ben would suck on the Packers but I'd grade him very close to Rodgers.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2009, 08:30 AM
When I said you I meant people in general.

People compare college players saying who is the best one. I don't think this is any different.

Oh ok, I was going to say.. I barely ever post in the draft section.

And that's even worse in the college level. The systems there are vast..

Option
Spread option
Air Raid
Run and Shoot
Pro
triple option
West Coast

You have tons of systems, with tons of different players, playing any school in the country. So the parity among programs are a lot more different than in the NFL.

That's why scouts are finding it hard to scout prospects now. The trend is more towards the spread offense and scouts really have to focus on individual attributes and figure out how it translates to the NFL more than ever. I read a great article on this just couple weeks ago.

People compare college prospects but I think they are doing it in regards to their skill set not their production. You can't compare Tebow's stats to a guy in the Run and Shoot or Air Raid system. Yeah both are QBs, but both are in vastly different systems. So draftniks compare skill sets. That can be done, but that's really about it.

NY+Giants=NYG
12-17-2009, 08:33 AM
I fully understand what you're saying, and it makes sense, but if we all subscribe to that theory we might as well shut down the forums.

Very true, but you still talk about football in it's sense of what it's about to be talked about. On different formations, runs, and concepts being ran on both sides of the ball.

That's why i post on football forums. I never post in the threads that say, list you're best QBs, RBs, WRs in the league. I know that stuff is hard to prove, and it's no point really.

Now, if someone wants to talk about how to beat a C2 and what routes should be run, then that to me, personally is more appealing. But to each his own i guess. I am just saying comparing different QBs with all these different variables is hard to do.

Rosebud
12-17-2009, 12:35 PM
Banning, I think with a thread like this few are actually comparing these guys based on their production. I know I made my decision based entirely on watching them play and the things I saw that they did well, not how productive they've been doing those things.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2009, 12:47 PM
Who me? I barely post in the college forum or watch college football. And the thread I create is from our other giants site where scouts talk about each prospect. Like this year for example, I barely have said anything about any prospect. I don't think Tebow would fit well in the NFL is the extent of my comments.

Are you confusing me with BBD? BBD is more of a draftnik than me.

Actually im not much of a draftnik. I don't watch much college football, so I can't really say that I'm a draftnik. I consider myself a good evaluator of talent, but a lot of times I don't know what to make of prospects bc I just don't watch enough college football to get a good gauge on a lot of these guys.

I can hold a convo, and if I see a lot of tape on a certain guy, you'll know it bc i can break em down fairly well when i do, but a lot if not most of these guys, I just don't see em play so im not really a reliable opinion on a lot of these college players.

At the NFL level though, I know these guys pretty well.

Shiver
12-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Actually im not much of a draftnik. I don't watch much college football, so I can't really say that I'm a draftnik. I consider myself a good evaluator of talent, but a lot of times I don't know what to make of prospects bc I just don't watch enough college football to get a good gauge on a lot of these guys.

I can hold a convo, and if I see a lot of tape on a certain guy, you'll know it bc i can break em down fairly well when i do, but a lot if not most of these guys, I just don't see em play so im not really a reliable opinion on a lot of these college players.

At the NFL level though, I know these guys pretty well.


Back in my hey-day, in 2006 and 2007 I watched a lot of college football and had a pretty good read on the players. Last year and this year I honestly have hardly watched any games. I don't know all that much about any of the prospects beyond Big-12 games.

Shiver
12-17-2009, 01:57 PM
An interesting poll thus far. I had these three pretty clearly ranked, Rivers, then Rodgers, then Roethlisberger. I didn't expect that to be the consensus opinion. If anything I expected more votes for Roethlisberger; I would have debated against it, but I would have understood it.

Favre4ever
12-17-2009, 02:51 PM
An interesting poll thus far. I had these three pretty clearly ranked, Rivers, then Rodgers, then Roethlisberger. I didn't expect that to be the consensus opinion. If anything I expected more votes for Roethlisberger; I would have debated against it, but I would have understood it.

Unfortunately for Big Ben, he will always be linked to his dominating Defense that got him his first SB and led him to the 2nd one. This year, the Defense is underperforming and we have the results.

Hes a very good QB with a lot of intangibles but not as talented as the other 2.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2009, 03:17 PM
Did Ben have great defenses? Absolutely.

But who wins a SB without a good defense? No qb in NFL history won a SB all on his own, with no help.

Every qb needs a defense. Every qb needs players around him on offense. Nobody does it by themselves.


And let's not forget, for a good 3 years, the Chargers were widely considered to be the most talented team on paper in the league. And its not like Rivers has had a piss poor defense his whole career.

Its not like Ben was just eating popcorn while his team carried him last year. And Rivers wasn't separating the sea with his bare hands all by himself either.

Its not as black and white as we want it to be. Nothing against any of these great qbs, but you gotta respect a guy who's gone out there and accomplished what he has.

You don't win 2 SBs by accident or luck.

Im not saying Ben is the best. Regardless of where he ranks, he's an elite qb to me. So is Rivers.

Rodgers...let him make the playoffs before we anoint him.

Xenos
12-17-2009, 04:55 PM
Unfortunately for Big Ben, he will always be linked to his dominating Defense that got him his first SB and led him to the 2nd one. This year, the Defense is underperforming and we have the results.

Hes a very good QB with a lot of intangibles but not as talented as the other 2.
I wouldn't hold it against him at all. He's playing well this year despite a bad defense. It's the same situation that Rivers went through last year.

TitleTown088
12-17-2009, 04:59 PM
Rodgers...let him make the playoffs before we anoint him.

Baby Cheesus has been anointed from day 1 thank you very much.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-17-2009, 05:14 PM
I rank them:
Rivers
Ben
Rodgers

Here's why: Rivers is just the best of the bunch IMO. Lately he hasn't had much of a defense, or a running game, but he still produces and he still wins games that matter. He's a leader. I can't point to a single thing he needs to improve upon. No weaknesses in his game at all. He's strong in the pocket, has a lightning quick release and is extremely smart and accurate. Roethlisberger is 2nd because he simply makes huge plays when his team needs him to. He is able to keep plays alive and find a receiver downfield. He has a big arm, he's accurate and nigh untacklable. But he does have some things he should work on. He takes a lot of hits, he holds on to the ball too long sometimes. Sometimes when he does it, he makes a play, sometimes he gets sacked. Still though, should probably stop doing it. Rivers and Roeth are probably my 2 most HATED QBs, obviously I hate the Chargers, and I don't exactly remember why, but I hate the Steelers, too. But I have both Rivers and Roethlisberger in my top 5 atm.
1-3. Manning, Brees, Brady, however you want them, I don't care.
4.Rivers
5. Ben Roethlisberger

Rodgers is great too, but he gets sacked too much for my liking, and he hasn't been doing great things for as long. He's a great young player though, I just don't think he's as great as Phil or Ben.

Bengalsrocket
12-17-2009, 06:48 PM
I voted Rivers, I tried to look at this based on skill only and not production.

For me it doesn't matter if you give all 3 QB's either a really good supporting cast or really terrible supporting cast, I think Rivers would make the most of it, in both scenarios.

Smooth Criminal
12-21-2009, 12:17 PM
My favorite part about Ben's game winning throw, he staying in the pocket and made a beautiful pass. We've seen him scramble and wait for coverages to break alot, but its not to often Ben stands in the pocket and goes through his reads and makes the perfect throw.

Last night may have been the best game I've ever seen him play. Atleast he's gotten rid of the game manager label over the past two seasons.

Day One Pick
12-21-2009, 03:27 PM
In a head to head matchup Ben sure looked better than Rodgers. Rodgers even had the benefit of playing against a terrible secondary. Ben was playing the leagues #1 defense. How many quarterbacks make that throw? Ben always makes the clutch throw.

Xenos
12-21-2009, 04:03 PM
In a head to head matchup Ben sure looked better than Rodgers. Rodgers even had the benefit of playing against a terrible secondary. Ben was playing the leagues #1 defense. How many quarterbacks make that throw? Ben always makes the clutch throw.
He did play against a depleted secondary as well with only Woodson as a great corner. Though he is better than Rodgers. I mean losing Al Harris shouldn't lead to 500 yards of passing given up. So props to Ben indeed.

And once again, Rivers survives the two interceptions he gave up. Still has not thrown more than that in a game. Now if patterns were to hold true this year, he would go four more games without throwing an interception before throwing one interception in one game and then two interceptions the following game.

CC.SD
12-21-2009, 04:05 PM
He did play against a depleted secondary as well with only Woodson as a great corner. Though he is better than Rodgers. I mean losing Al Harris shouldn't lead to 500 yards of passing given up. So props to Ben indeed.

And once again, Rivers survives the two interceptions he gave up. Still has not thrown more than that in a game. Now if patterns were to hold true this year, he would go four more games without throwing an interception before throwing one interception in one game and then two interceptions the following game.

/\ That was definitely my favorite bit of Phil Simms knowledge dropped during the game...Rivers has now gone longer than anyone ever without throwing 3 picks in a game to start his career. He passed Montana a few games ago.

bantx
12-21-2009, 04:11 PM
He did play against a depleted secondary as well with only Woodson as a great corner. Though he is better than Rodgers. I mean losing Al Harris shouldn't lead to 500 yards of passing given up. So props to Ben indeed.

And once again, Rivers survives the two interceptions he gave up. Still has not thrown more than that in a game. Now if patterns were to hold true this year, he would go four more games without throwing an interception before throwing one interception in one game and then two interceptions the following game.

That 2nd int was Gate's fault damn you gates!

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-21-2009, 04:24 PM
That 2nd int was Gate's fault damn you gates!

CUT his ass!

PackerLegend
12-21-2009, 04:44 PM
Rodgers doesn't even have a playoff appearance (though better career statistics)

You do realise this is Rodgers 2nd year starting meaning he had exactly 1 season so far to make the playoffs. He should make the playoffs this season baring a collapse. Rodgers also has a 96.6 QB rating all time though he has only attempted about 1100 passes, which would put him ahead of Rivers if he would have 400 more attempts.

CC.SD
12-21-2009, 04:54 PM
You do realise this is Rodgers 2nd year starting meaning he had exactly 1 season so far to make the playoffs. He should make the playoffs this season baring a collapse. Rodgers also has a 96.6 QB rating all time though he has only attempted about 1100 passes, which would put him ahead of Rivers if he would have 400 more attempts.

I'm not so sure the argument that he is still too wet behind the ears can be used in conjunction with the thought that he is even in Roethlisberger and River's league in terms of postseason qualifications. Both of them eat playoff appearances for breakfast. Passer rating is not exactly a reputable stat either.

Yah cut Gates. what the hell, make catches, don't cause interceptions, you basketball playing scrub.

djp
12-21-2009, 06:28 PM
Rodgers. Just my preference.

d34ng3l021
12-21-2009, 07:13 PM
You do realise this is Rodgers 2nd year starting meaning he had exactly 1 season so far to make the playoffs. He should make the playoffs this season baring a collapse. Rodgers also has a 96.6 QB rating all time though he has only attempted about 1100 passes, which would put him ahead of Rivers if he would have 400 more attempts.

I don't mean to hold his lack of playoff experience against him, but it is something he doesn't have yet, through no fault of his own. It will definitely come with time, but if you are to make the comparisons now, you would have to take into account Big Ben's 2 SB rings and the fact that Rivers' team hasn't missed playoffs since he became a starter. Playoffs and winning are the most important things in football and Roethlisberger and Rivers are already pretty good at that; I am sure A-Rod will be as well given time.

LonghornsLegend
12-21-2009, 07:33 PM
Ironically all 3 guys played excellent, even though I still took Rivers it's something about Ben being clutch you just have to factor in. Was there any doubt he would make a play to win? If you give him time at the end of a game it's a wrap, and now we can't even use the defense excuse for him since they don't have one anymore.



He's not flashy, won't always put up gaudy stats, but he may end up being in the argument of one of the most clutch QB's ever by the time he retires. Look at how many big plays he's made to this point, 4th qt comebacks, game winning drives, etc this soon in his career.


Rivers record in December is almost equally as impressive to me. I really don't think you can go wrong with either guy, I love all of them and think Rivers and Rodgers will win a SB eventually but they still need help around them just like any QB.

Flyboy
12-22-2009, 03:58 AM
Rivers makes me all warm on the inside.

TitanHope
12-22-2009, 08:03 AM
I went with Rivers. I think he's the better QB of the 3.