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foozball
12-17-2009, 12:11 AM
So before the season, everyone had him pegged at going to Oakland in the top 10. Now...not so much. He had a poor season and really didn't answer any questions about his on field ability. Three questions:

Where is his stock right now?

Where will his stock be if he does measure in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.27?

Where will his stock be if he only measures in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.45?

LonghornsLegend
12-17-2009, 12:19 AM
I have read from multiple outlets who contacted scouts, GM's etc, that they would be surprised if he is a top 15 pick. I know the measurables are there, but alot of people don't see him with the incredible stock he had a year ago.


Now when the Raiders pick all bets are off, but I'll see if this holds true or not.


The sources I came across saw him as a mid 1st rounder at best now that people have broken down plenty of film on him, I don't think he's a bad player, but I think going back to school has shown he isn't a top 10 player IMO no matter how big or fast he is.


I know there are alot of Mays fans here and rightfully so, he's not a terrible player, but for the life of me I have not seen one thing to prove he should be a top 10 pick other then be big and run fast. If there were some other attributes he possesses to make that be true I'd love to know what they are so I can look for them next time.

RaiderNation
12-17-2009, 12:19 AM
Theres no way Mays is going to Oakland

Paranoidmoonduck
12-17-2009, 12:28 AM
Personally, I don't think my opinions changed at all.

This was the year that was going to define Mays. He asked to be used in a wider variety than in previous year, to play more at the line, to go in man coverage more, etc. And it's largely been underwhelming (at best). Then again, when we were having this discussion 6 months ago and people were saying that he was big and fast enough to expand his game beyond the way USC used him his junior year, I voiced my doubts. For me, Mays is what Mays has always been. He's a good centerfielder who can use his size and strength paired with his speed to become one of the better deep range free safeties in the NFL. He's not a strong safety, nor is he a linebacker. Whether he's got a good enough head on his shoulders to fulfill his potential as a free safety is something I have no real idea about, but he played the role well enough as a sophomore and junior.

Mays is what he is, and his expanded role this year at USC I would say has proved to be too much. He's never been a guy I considered a top 10 pick, but I do think that if he can grow into the deep cover role in the NFL, he easily warrants being picked in the 11-25 range.

Saints-Tigers
12-17-2009, 12:33 AM
Prove us guys that said he wasn't a natural playmaker correct.

foozball
12-17-2009, 12:36 AM
Ohh wait...I have another question: what happens if he DOESN'T measure out as advertised? Say...4.45 area?

WMD
12-17-2009, 12:50 AM
Shows that it's usually a mistake to return to school when you're a projected Top 15 pick or so..

YAYareaRB
12-17-2009, 03:51 AM
Theres no way Mays is going to Oakland

I said the same thing about DHB haha

diabsoule
12-17-2009, 03:55 AM
That's fine. I hope he falls to New Orleans.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-17-2009, 04:09 AM
I said the same thing about DHB haha

Oakland needed a wide receiver though. I thought Heyward-Bey was a totally feasible (if totally crappy) route for Oakland. With Branch, Huff, and Mitchell (all three Al Davis picks within the last four years) on the team, it's hard to see them targeting another safety that early, no matter how much people think Mays meets some sort of Oakland standard. Branch isn't playing half bad either.

diesel
12-17-2009, 09:26 AM
He will run around 4.45 and would look good with a star on his helmet. Not as good as Berry of course, but the football Gods hate me and that will never happen.

SenorGato
12-17-2009, 10:19 AM
Prove us guys that said he wasn't a natural playmaker correct.

+1

One of the most overrated prospects in a while...no offense to him since I'm sure he's a decent guy and all that.

Now that said, I would not mind him falling to the Jets so that he's one of the possible choices. In the 2nd...:eek: I prefer Nate Allen.

descendency
12-17-2009, 11:01 AM
Raiders fans who say no chance are delusional. If he runs 4.27 (or 3.97 by Al's watch), He'll trade whoever stops him from drafting Mays.

If he runs 4.35 or higher, then I think you take him off of the Raiders board. There just are not that many elite prospects that fit the Raiders needs and the Raiders wants. Carlos Dunlap, Bruce Campbell, Joe Haden, and Taylor Mays are the top 4 in my opinion. Ryan Mallett could sneak in to the 5th role, but he lacks mobility that Al wants.

Babylon
12-17-2009, 11:20 AM
So before the season, everyone had him pegged at going to Oakland in the top 10. Now...not so much. He had a poor season and really didn't answer any questions about his on field ability. Three questions:

Where is his stock right now?

Where will his stock be if he does measure in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.27?

Where will his stock be if he only measures in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.45?

I've had him going to Seattle at 8 for awhile now (certainly see that with Locker not being available) and Scott seems to agree. 8 is higher than the 10th pick.

He didnt have a good season, by who's standards?. To me he played better than last year/

The guy is a big safety and he can fly, watch the film. There isnt going to be some big revelation at the combine where his physical ability should be on display.

Addict
12-17-2009, 11:40 AM
Theres no way Mays is going to Oakland

did you guys not say the same thing about Heyward-Bey last year?

Borat
12-17-2009, 12:00 PM
My thoughts from the Taylor Mays thread prior to the '09 draft:

I tend to agree with Bitonti. I know he's the pick du jour in the Niner forum, but I just can't get down with it yet. Not with the 10th pick in the draft. Just seems like a reach for a guy that is pretty much all measurables at this point.

Pretty much still applies.

descendency
12-17-2009, 12:07 PM
The guy is a big safety and he can fly, watch the film.

Yea, watch the film. Watch his sub mediocre deep coverage. Watch his lack of ball skills. Watch his tackling ability being substituted for big hit ability. He's bigger and faster than every other safety in college and that's the only thing that has him in the top 15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fWzQvGnEs&feature=player_embedded

His only interception this year is on this (that was a terrible throw, but he shows good technique):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PVO3_iQT9g&feature=player_embedded#
Granted, he looks good here because of his elite athleticism. In the NFL, it isn't going to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb7etFOMb1k&feature=player_embedded#
More good run stopping and more getting burned on pass coverage.

Babylon
12-17-2009, 01:05 PM
Yea, watch the film. Watch his sub mediocre deep coverage. Watch his lack of ball skills. Watch his tackling ability being substituted for big hit ability. He's bigger and faster than every other safety in college and that's the only thing that has him in the top 15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fWzQvGnEs&feature=player_embedded

His only interception this year is on this (that was a terrible throw, but he shows good technique):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PVO3_iQT9g&feature=player_embedded#
Granted, he looks good here because of his elite athleticism. In the NFL, it isn't going to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb7etFOMb1k&feature=player_embedded#
More good run stopping and more getting burned on pass coverage.

The point i was making was in response to the OP that questioned his speed. Speed isnt an issue with this guy.

D-Unit
12-17-2009, 01:11 PM
Music to my ears. I really hope Mays is there when the Cowboys pick.

Keep the bashing up. He'll be better in the NFL.

Addict
12-17-2009, 01:48 PM
I say Mays sucks. He sucks so bad he shouldn't even be in the first round you guys. Anyone who says Mays is a first-rounder is completely insane in my book. Seriously, just pray your team passes him up so that the lions can draft him in the 2nd round

HawkeyeFan
12-17-2009, 02:30 PM
I wouldn't choose Taylor Mays in the 1st Round. He's stats and on-field production just aren't there. I think he's very overrrated.

FUNBUNCHER
12-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Welcome to the double move, Mr. Mays.

Personally, I think Mays plays a game very similar to Laron Landry for the SKins. Big hitter, poor tackler, who's better off suited playing closer to the LOS than in deep coverage.

He's a great athlete and a sure-fire starter in the NFL, but Mays isn't a the best-safety-of-a-generation type prospect.
He's not the kind of player who will take over a game from the secondary.

Babylon
12-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Welcome to the double move, Mr. Mays.

Personally, I think Mays plays a game very similar to Laron Landry for the SKins. Big hitter, poor tackler, who's better off suited playing closer to the LOS than in deep coverage.

He's a great athlete and a sure-fire starter in the NFL, but Mays isn't a the best-safety-of-a-generation type prospect.
He's not the kind of player who will take over a game from the secondary.

Thing is with his range if he can take away the deep middle it would allow decent corners to play tighter coverage and probably free up linebackers to put pressure on the QB. He doesnt have to have all world instincts to be a major factor to a defense.

Hurricanes25
12-17-2009, 04:29 PM
Welcome to the double move, Mr. Mays.

Personally, I think Mays plays a game very similar to Laron Landry for the SKins. Big hitter, poor tackler, who's better off suited playing closer to the LOS than in deep coverage.

He's a great athlete and a sure-fire starter in the NFL, but Mays isn't a the best-safety-of-a-generation type prospect.
He's not the kind of player who will take over a game from the secondary.

I completely agree with you. Perfect comparsion to Landry. They are very similar players.

Hines
12-17-2009, 04:40 PM
Mr Taylor Mays can come to Pittsburgh for all I care. Kid is a stud and would be a perfect centerfielder for the Steelers.

descendency
12-17-2009, 05:09 PM
The point i was making was in response to the OP that questioned his speed. Speed isnt an issue with this guy.

Oh. If the question was about speed, then Mays is an A+. Mays has ELITE speed, regardless of what his timed speed is in t-shirt and shorts.

I will never knock Mays for speed. He might be the fastest safety in the draft, regardless of size.

Thing is with his range if he can take away the deep middle it would allow decent corners to play tighter coverage and probably free up linebackers to put pressure on the QB. He doesnt have to have all world instincts to be a major factor to a defense.

If he could develop ball skills, he'd be a candidate for the #1 overall pick. He's got freakish size and speed, but seems to never know where the ball is when he's in coverage.

cajuncorey
12-17-2009, 05:30 PM
this thread went from "before/after taylor mays" to "Al davis's wishlist"

D-Unit
12-17-2009, 05:36 PM
I guess I can't really say I'm suprised by the amount of posters misreading him, but I hope he falls to the end of the round where the Cowboys are picking.

wonderbredd24
12-17-2009, 05:41 PM
I just don't know how many NFL teams run their safeties 22 yards from the line of scrimmage every play.

I don't think Taylor Mays has great instincts, but his absurd physical ability with be able to mask that to a point.

I think he's gonna end up a Raven based on Newsome's style and where I think Mays will end up going.

phlysac
12-17-2009, 06:35 PM
I guess I can't really say I'm suprised by the amount of posters misreading him

How do you read him as it opposes to his critics?

Prophet
12-17-2009, 07:24 PM
Anyone hoping Mays will be a pro-bowl quality FS will most likely be terribly mistaken. The guy would be better suited in the box.
He is nothing more than a pure athlete. His instincts are so terrible he would be an awful choice to be a centerfielder.
He certainly has great speed and athleticism, no one is doubting that. He may not run a high 4.2 at the combine (the track does tend to run a little fast at SC) but I couldn't imagine him droping to a 4.45.

Stranger
12-17-2009, 08:36 PM
I am not that high on Mays but am suprised at people who say he should play at the LOS instead of deep. Wasn't the whole problem with him that he was playing centerfield (extremely well) and so was not showing up in the stats. Then this year when he went away from that role he didn't look as good.

Seems like evidence for deep>LOS to me.

phlysac
12-17-2009, 08:47 PM
I am not that high on Mays but am suprised at people who say he should play at the LOS instead of deep. Wasn't the whole problem with him that he was playing centerfield (extremely well) and so was not showing up in the stats. Then this year when he went away from that role he didn't look as good.

Seems like evidence for deep>LOS to me.

Playing extremly deep allowed him to solely rely on athleticism. I'm not certain he'll be able to play that deep in the NFL,and even if he did, his speed wont be as significant in comparison to competition. Also, the talent of the QBs will be able to exploit his distance from the ball with underneath routes, pump fakes, and eyeing him off the ball. That's why I feel his athleticism and speed, accompanied with his ability to hit, will translate better in-the-box. If he, indeed lacks instincts and takes bad angles, it won't matter where he plays, it will affect him.

Prophet
12-17-2009, 08:55 PM
I am not that high on Mays but am suprised at people who say he should play at the LOS instead of deep. Wasn't the whole problem with him that he was playing centerfield (extremely well) and so was not showing up in the stats. Then this year when he went away from that role he didn't look as good.

Seems like evidence for deep>LOS to me.

SC never deviated from generally keeping him at centerfield. I dont know how much you watched of him this year but his role was no different from the one he played in 07 and 08.

Sniper
12-17-2009, 09:00 PM
SC never deviated from generally keeping him at centerfield. I dont know how much you watched of him this year but his role was no different from the one he played in 07 and 08.

No, but I think he tried to do too much due to the suckiness of the SC defense. When the surrounding cast was great, he was great at his job. When it was awful, he was awful. I think he's a first-round selection, and I'd love to see him roam deep for the Eagles in that high-pressure system.

scottyboy
12-17-2009, 09:24 PM
Mays+KP=orgasmic.
I want it to happen

Sniper
12-17-2009, 09:27 PM
Mays+KP=orgasmic.
I want it to happen

I don't, so let's pass on that.

Prophet
12-17-2009, 10:58 PM
No, but I think he tried to do too much due to the suckiness of the SC defense.

Then why did he come back?
The guy may not be a certified genius but I would think he was bright enough to calculate the loss of 10 defensive starters (8 of which were drafted).
He knew what he was getting into by returning and I think its very unfair to say he didn't try.

Owning the SC campus for a year is great but soon the guy will realize it wasn't worth the millions it will cost him. Just ask Matt Leinart.
I get a good laugh from looking back on a time when scouts were debating Mays or Berry.

Sniper
12-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Then why did he come back?
The guy may not be a certified genius but I would think he was bright enough to calculate the loss of 10 defensive starters (8 of which were drafted).

I don't know. Maybe he saw Carroll's track record with defensive players and assumed they'd be okay.

He knew what he was getting into by returning and I think its very unfair to say he didn't try.

How do you get "he didn't try" from...

No, but I think he tried to do too much due to the suckiness of the SC defense.

?

It's the exact opposite.

jayceheathman
12-17-2009, 11:03 PM
I will be super happy if he falls to the Texans. He is WAY better than John Busing, Nick Ferguson, and Dominique Barber. Put him up with his old teammate in Brian Cushing and he will be a beast. :)

Malaka
12-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Giants at 20 please.

D-Unit
12-18-2009, 12:18 AM
Giants at 20 please.
Cowboys at 19 please. :D

Flyboy
12-18-2009, 12:18 AM
Become a Saint, Taylor. You know you want to.

phlysac
12-18-2009, 12:25 AM
Owning the SC campus for a year is great but soon the guy will realize it wasn't worth the millions it will cost him.

He probably makes alot more than that at SC :P

Sniper
12-18-2009, 12:29 AM
He probably makes alot more than that at SC :P

If only this joke hadn't been used 981,901,982,891,040,765,817 times before, it might even be funny.

phlysac
12-18-2009, 01:47 AM
If only this joke hadn't been used 981,901,982,891,040,765,817 times before, it might even be funny.
I'm sorry to pee in your wheaties.

Rosebud
12-18-2009, 03:43 AM
*crosses fingers hoping he falls to the gmen the way Phillips fell to us* KP and Mays would be nasty and our corners would finally have dependable help that isn't also a liability in the run game like Michael Johnson has been.

Saints-Tigers
12-18-2009, 08:27 AM
No, but I think he tried to do too much due to the suckiness of the SC defense. When the surrounding cast was great, he was great at his job. When it was awful, he was awful. I think he's a first-round selection, and I'd love to see him roam deep for the Eagles in that high-pressure system.


This is what I was trying to say when everyone was crediting him for not giving up anything over 20 yards. When you have a stacked ass team with the type of front 7 SC had, a lot of guys could sit 25 yards deep and not have to worry about biting on play action....

My opinion hasn't changed on him, I don't know how he could "drop" by being the same type of player he was last year, he never was a 1a/1b with Berry like people wanted to pretend he was, he's a 15-20 guy.

Malaka
12-18-2009, 09:19 AM
Lmao, this is like the 4th time I've been rep raped screw you bastids >.<

Iamcanadian
12-18-2009, 09:49 AM
He's a middle 1st rounder right now but that that doesn't really mean a whole lot at this stage for any prospect. The Senior Bowl practice, the combine and the pro days hold the fate of every prospect in the draft, if they perform there they can move way up, way down or remain the same. There is still plenty of room for movement either way.

Hines
12-18-2009, 10:21 AM
TM and TP would be a deadly ass combo.

Job
12-18-2009, 11:29 AM
I've always thought Taylor Mays would be a perfect fit for Rex Ryan's heavy-blitzing scheme, for his speed and center-fielding abilities just give more freedom to the rest of his team. To me, there's no way he falls past the Jets. Especially with Rhodes having a sub-par year at best.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-18-2009, 11:31 AM
Music to my ears. I really hope Mays is there when the Cowboys pick.

Keep the bashing up. He'll be better in the NFL.

Doubtful. Broncos have the Bears pick :D

RealityCheck
12-18-2009, 12:01 PM
I don't see Mays going anywhere after the Niners.

TACKLE
12-18-2009, 12:04 PM
The thing I find interesting is for all the hate Mays gets, there aren't many people who wouldn't want him on their team.

D-Unit
12-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Doubtful. Broncos have the Bears pick :D

Hey now. You just took Darcel McBath and David Bruton last year.


TACKLE, you'll see that the worst hatred instantly become lovers once thier team drafts him. I see it happen every year.

phlysac
12-18-2009, 01:23 PM
I don't hate Mays at all. My outlook on him is that if the 49ers draft him and he excells I will love him. The reason I have little interest in him, at this point, is because I feel the 49ers need a tremendous coverage safety that has tremendous ball-skills. I don't see enough of that from Mays.

Babylon
12-18-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't see Mays going anywhere after the Niners.

Last time i looked Seattle picks before San Francisco.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Hey now. You just took Darcel McBath and David Bruton last year.


That's like saying:

"Hey now. Don't go after Jessica Alba. You've already got Roseanne Barr and Starr Jones eating out of your hand."

broncofan7
12-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Unless the Raiders pick him, he will most likely fall to the 20s. I have a couple prospects in front of Mays, i.e Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, and DeAndre McDaniel. Mays is just another example on why prospects should declare when their stock is high.

Babylon
12-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Unless the Raiders pick him, he will most likely fall to the 20s. I have a couple prospects in front of Mays, i.e Eric Berry, Earl Thomas, and DeAndre McDaniel. Mays is just another example on why prospects should declare when their stock is high.

We dont know where he would have gone last year and will have to wait to see where he goes this year so i'd hold off on that predicition. I doubt he gets by the Seattle pick which is top 10 right now.

jimbo
12-18-2009, 07:18 PM
He will not be a good FS in the NFL, and any team thinking he will be is going to be sorely mistaken. I like him as a SS or WLB prospect.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-18-2009, 07:38 PM
He will not be a good FS in the NFL, and any team thinking he will be is going to be sorely mistaken. I like him as a SS or WLB prospect.

I just want to make this clear. A guy who was borderline brilliant in 2007 and 2008 as a deep cover safety and who was exposed as being poor in man coverage and being a shoddy tackler this year is better suited to play SS or linebacker? Want to explain that one?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-18-2009, 07:44 PM
I just want to make this clear. A guy who was borderline brilliant in 2007 and 2008 as a deep cover safety and who was exposed as being poor in man coverage and being a shoddy tackler this year is better suited to play SS or linebacker? Want to explain that one?

I think he should play QB. He'll know what the safety is thinking.

LonghornsLegend
12-18-2009, 07:57 PM
The thing I find interesting is for all the hate Mays gets, there aren't many people who wouldn't want him on their team.

I would, but only if we took him over Earl Thomas. Crazier things have happened and I don't think it's that crazy that Thomas gets drafted before Mays.

FUNBUNCHER
12-18-2009, 11:04 PM
He will not be a good FS in the NFL, and any team thinking he will be is going to be sorely mistaken. I like him as a SS or WLB prospect.

Shhhh.
Mays at SS or WLB = STUD.

Mays is going to have to cover WRs in the pros, not just roam space, and I don't think he is even adequate in man coverage against players who can match his speed or have superior quickness.

I think with pro coaching and more emphasis on his tackling technique, ( meaning, a position coach tells Taylor something he never heard before in college; either you wrap up when hit somebody or you get benched, Mays), he could dramatically improve as a player in the pros.

Honestly, after Mays' sophomore year at USC, I don't think anyone on USC's staff had the guts to rip him for poor play. He probably hasn't really been coached and held accountable for his on the field play for 2 years.:eek:

For that reason alone, I think Mays is still a top 12 pick.

A good DB coach and DC who's willing to call Mays out in film study for terrible play will get the most out of that cyborg body.

superman8456
12-18-2009, 11:11 PM
Its been written about how much work Mays has put into his open field tackling and wrapping up. I think if he continues to be willing to improve that aspect of his game, he will be an animal.

Personally, I wanna see him move to LB.

WCH
12-18-2009, 11:15 PM
Where will his stock be if he does measure in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.27?

Where will his stock be if he only measures in at 6'3 220-230lbs and runs 4.45?

I think that his height will be more important than his speed. A few years ago, the big knock on Aaron Rouse was being "too tall" (6'4") and it dropped him to the third round. He hasn't exactly lit the world on fire, and even if things like "No player at [x] position who was measured in at [y-variable] has ever made it in the NFL" aren't exactly sound, logical assertions, scouts do think about these things.

If he measures in a 6'3.5" instead of 6'2.5" then he could be in big trouble.

cvv84
12-18-2009, 11:34 PM
My bad. Delete this

D-Unit
12-19-2009, 01:40 AM
Its been written about how much work Mays has put into his open field tackling and wrapping up. I think if he continues to be willing to improve that aspect of his game, he will be an animal.

Personally, I wanna see him move to LB.
People said the same thing about Kevin Ellison. Chargers drafted him in the 6th and he's been a good player for them this year (at SAFETY). Mays is so much better than Ellison it ain't funny.

TACKLE
12-19-2009, 01:53 AM
Its been written about how much work Mays has put into his open field tackling and wrapping up. I think if he continues to be willing to improve that aspect of his game, he will be an animal.

Personally, I wanna see him move to LB.

I just want to make this clear. A guy who was borderline brilliant in 2007 and 2008 as a deep cover safety and who was exposed as being poor in man coverage and being a shoddy tackler this year is better suited to play SS or linebacker? Want to explain that one?

Listen to PMD. He knows what he's talking about. Just curious, what about Taylor Mays would lead you to believe he would be more successful as a LB than a FS?

FUNBUNCHER
12-19-2009, 09:11 AM
My desire to see Mays switch to WLB is strictly a size bias based on his triangle numbers and his poor ball instincts and man coverage ability.

Still, if former Cowboy Roy Williams could be a pro bowl safety with half the athletic ability of Mays, (although he was a much more instinctive player), Mays coming into the pros as a 4 year starter at USC with his height/weight/speed combo, should have enough tools to play the position at a very high level for at least a decade.

scottyboy
12-19-2009, 09:53 AM
Mays at WLB? rofl- *******-copter.

that's absurd. this discussion needs to die now. He's a safety. end of discussion.

superman8456
12-19-2009, 10:22 AM
Listen to PMD. He knows what he's talking about. Just curious, what about Taylor Mays would lead you to believe he would be more successful as a LB than a FS?

To me, the safety position in the NFL is all about instincts and ball skills. He doesnt have a real knack for being around the ball, and we all know about his poor ball skills.

The tools he would bring to WLB, outweigh the ones he would bring to safety. The pros would be:
1) side line to side line ability
2) hitting is one of his best facets to his game
3) good size for the position
4) I believe he could cover anything coming out of the backfield and a lot of TE's
5) Depending on what team he goes to, he will possibly blitz a lot, and it could be interesting to see his speed coming off the edge
6) Less responsibility for him with helping over the top and such

TACKLE
12-19-2009, 11:22 AM
1) side line to side line ability

So you're saying he has great range. Is that not one of the most desirable qualities for a safety.

2) hitting is one of his best facets to his game

Hitting. Yes. Tackling. No. He can be an enforcer and a presence in the secondary and can make big hits on WR and TE but he'll struggle making a one on one tackle against a RB.

3) good size for the position

Great size if he's a safety.

4) I believe he could cover anything coming out of the backfield and a lot of TE's

He also has the speed to cover WR's.

5) Depending on what team he goes to, he will possibly blitz a lot, and it could be interesting to see his speed coming off the edge

They tried a bit of that this year and it didn't work out. Its very hard to teach a guy who has been a DB his whole life to know rush the passer like a D-lineman.

6) Less responsibility for him with helping over the top and such

But that is what he's best at. Why would you take that away from him.

superman8456
12-19-2009, 11:31 AM
So you're saying he has great range. Is that not one of the most desirable qualities for a safety.

its valuable for both positions, moreso necessary for safety though

Hitting. Yes. Tackling. No. He can be an enforcer and a presence in the secondary and can make big hits on WR and TE but he'll struggle making a one on one tackle against a RB.

I honestly believe he will be one of the most fined players in the NFL if he stays at safety. Highlight reel hits maybe, but fines for head to head contact, etc.


Great size if he's a safety.

No argument here.

He also has the speed to cover WR's.

But he's simply not that good at it. Something I would not like him to get paid to do on a weekly basis in the NFL.

They tried a bit of that this year and it didn't work out. Its very hard to teach a guy who has been a DB his whole life to know rush the passer like a D-lineman.

NFL coaching is a little bit better than college football coaching, believe it or not.


But that is what he's best at. Why would you take that away from him.
He is not that good at helping over the top, let alone having a feel for where the ball is/going to be. Lack of production in college doesnt bode well for good production in the NFL.

ten characters

D-Unit
12-19-2009, 11:53 AM
Would you guys talking about moving him to LB say the same thing about Adrian Wilson? To me Mays is a close resemblance to him.

phlysac
12-19-2009, 12:20 PM
Adrian Wilson is dynamic in coverage. He reads the QB tremendously and is very instinctual as far as jumping routes. I haven't seen that from Mays.

D-Unit
12-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Adrian Wilson is dynamic in coverage. He reads the QB tremendously and is very instinctual as far as jumping routes. I haven't seen that from Mays.
Did you see that of Wilson while he was in college? I bet not.

FYI, he too only had 3 INTs during his college career. Everyone bases Mays off that single stat too. LOL.

superman8456
12-19-2009, 01:17 PM
Did you see that of Wilson while he was in college? I bet not.

FYI, he too only had 3 INTs during his college career. Everyone bases Mays off that single stat too. LOL.

Wilson also only ran a 4.52, which I probably would have thought LB after seeing that.

Wilson was also on a 2nd round prospect, that got picked in the 3rd. Mays is going to be a top 15 prospect. Not nearly as big of a gamble.

Only 3 INT's in his college career, which only two seasons he started compared to Mays.

phlysac
12-19-2009, 01:22 PM
Did you see that of Wilson while he was in college? I bet not.

FYI, he too only had 3 INTs during his college career. Everyone bases Mays off that single stat too. LOL.

I agree with your point but are you making an assumption that Mays will progress to be the type of player that Wilson has become? I'm not basing my opinion of Mays on what I feel his physical ability might allow him to become. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen him do.

D-Unit
12-19-2009, 02:19 PM
Wilson also only ran a 4.52, which I probably would have thought LB after seeing that.

Wilson was also on a 2nd round prospect, that got picked in the 3rd. Mays is going to be a top 15 prospect. Not nearly as big of a gamble.

Only 3 INT's in his college career, which only two seasons he started compared to Mays.
Exactly, anyone drafting a 4.52 Safety in round 1 is ludicrous. At that time you would've called for him to be a LB. Since then, he has had a great career as a Safety. So your logic is still to play Mays at LB? ...and that's a safer gamble to you? I dunno man, it seems you just don't get it.

D-Unit
12-19-2009, 02:19 PM
I agree with your point but are you making an assumption that Mays will progress to be the type of player that Wilson has become? I'm not basing my opinion of Mays on what I feel his physical ability might allow him to become. I'm basing my opinion on what I've seen him do.
So we should just evaluate NFL prospects on what they've already accomplished.... hmmm.. mmk. Good luck Niners.

FUNBUNCHER
12-19-2009, 03:06 PM
Exactly, anyone drafting a 4.52 Safety in round 1 is ludicrous. At that time you would've called for him to be a LB. Since then, he has had a great career as a Safety. So your logic is still to play Mays at LB? ...and that's a safer gamble to you? I dunno man, it seems you just don't get it.

Sean Taylor didn't attend the NFL combine and ran only one 40 at Miami's Pro Day, a 4.50 flat according to Gil Brandt at a weight of 230#.
At the time, ST wasn't a prospect who prepped for the draft by attending speed camps. His game speed was faster anyway because of his elite instincts in the passing game, i.e., he anticipated where the ball was going before the QB threw it and got there in time to make a play on the football.

Ed Reed didn't run a sub 4.5 either.

Running in the 4.5 range is okay if game film shows that a prospect is an elite talent in pads, but it's problematic if a prospect shows speed deficiencies in his overall game.

EDIT: He, we'd all love to see a 6'3, 235# LB with 4.3 speed enter the NFL and DOMINATE like LT, but with proper coaching, Mays should come much closer to fulfilling his God given talent.
I still would argue that Mays received very little coaching at USC after his sophomore year because of his freakish athleticism and his status as the best 'player' on the Trojans squad.
Too many coaches walk around on eggshells with these types of talents, instead of coaching them to get better.

Still, because Mays will often be in situations in the NFL where he's going to have to cover one on one in open space, and since he's already demonstrated he's a guy that can be lost in coverage, I could see some team moving him closer to the LOS.

phlysac
12-19-2009, 03:15 PM
So we should just evaluate NFL prospects on what they've already accomplished.... hmmm.. mmk. Good luck Niners.

That's not the point at all. Many people have stated the deficiencies they've seen in Mays' game and most have been at least partially accurate. You decline to acknowledge the possibility of him having the same inadequacies at the next level. Him developing into what you think he'll be is similarly likely to him not developing.

Babylon
12-27-2009, 11:54 AM
Didn't look good against BC. The Eagles passing game was so bad it didnt have a lot of down the field plays but the one's they did have Taylor seemed to always be taking the wrong angle on or getting there a bit late.

I've come to realize what you see with Mays is what you get. He has off the charts size and speed and less than ideal football skills.

619
12-27-2009, 12:03 PM
Didn't look good against BC. The Eagles passing game was so bad it didnt have a lot of down the field plays but the one's they did have Taylor seemed to always be taking the wrong angle on or getting there a bit late.

I've come to realize what you see with Mays is what you get. He has off the charts size and speed and less than ideal football skills.

I've come to realize he needs better play from his front 7 as well. This year was a less than ideal situation to evaluate his talents. I will acknowledge he had a disappointing senior season (to say the least), and it will potentially cost him millions in the process as he's probably now viewed as a late-first to early-second in the eyes of many.

Still, it may be a blessing in the long-run as this will mean he will not be pressed into the starting lineup immediately. When football is your job you have unlimited time to breakdown and focus on the fundamentals of the position. That's what he needs to go back to now - the basics. A stud in the making, be patient, and you will be rewarded. That's how I see it.

D-Unit
12-27-2009, 12:07 PM
I've come to realize that some NFL team will take him before the Cowboys do and that makes me a sad panda.

zachsaints52
12-27-2009, 12:24 PM
I didnt really read most posts, but if he fell to New Orleans I would literally crap my pants.

Babylon
12-27-2009, 12:31 PM
I didnt really read most posts, but if he fell to New Orleans I would literally crap my pants.

That isnt going to happen. Physical freaks tend to have their stock go up with combine and workouts but i think he'll always be a good player who leaves people wanting more.

zachsaints52
12-27-2009, 12:34 PM
Oh I know he wouldn't fall. He had over 90 tackles this season, and its hard to pick a physically dominating person like him at the Safety position. But if he fell and he had a year to be mentored by Darren Sharper.... wow.

TimD
12-27-2009, 12:46 PM
That isnt going to happen. Physical freaks tend to have their stock go up with combine and workouts but i think he'll always be a good player who leaves people wanting more.

a good example is vernon gholston..

minus the good player thing

RealityCheck
12-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Mays actually did a good job yesterday before getting hurt like a girl.

Cigaro
12-28-2009, 10:24 PM
Mays actually did a good job yesterday before getting hurt like a girl.

I didn't see much of the game, but I did see a long BC TD where Taylor Mays didn't get close to catching up with the receiver. So I'm interested in what his real game speed is, as well as work ethic(either he's not as fast as I thought, or he didn't play full speed that play, neither good).

TACKLE
12-28-2009, 10:35 PM
I didn't see much of the game, but I did see a long BC TD where Taylor Mays didn't get close to catching up with the receiver. So I'm interested in what his real game speed is, as well as work ethic(either he's not as fast as I thought, or he didn't play full speed that play, neither good).

I saw that play. He had two of his guys in front of him he was trying to run past but they were in his way. If you have any questions about speed watch this.

26rLxHZpiKQ

Cigaro
12-28-2009, 10:42 PM
I saw that play. He had two of his guys in front of him he was trying to run past but they were in his way. If you have any questions about speed watch this.

26rLxHZpiKQ

Looked it up to take another look. He had two guys in front of him towards the end, but watch him(right side) chasing the receiver immediately after the catch. Maybe this receiver is also fast as ****, but Mays wasn't getting any closer to him without the guys in front(start at 1:30 mark).

gEaLl8j7GB4

CC.SD
12-29-2009, 12:53 AM
EDIT: He, we'd all love to see a 6'3, 235# LB with 4.3 speed enter the NFL and DOMINATE like LT, but with proper coaching, Mays should come much closer to fulfilling his God given talent.


http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/files/2009/10/patrick-willis-264x300.jpg

Mr. Goosemahn
12-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Haven't really seen all that miuch to analyze Mays, but I hope he falls to the Steelers and rips guys apart alongside Polamalu. Two hard-hitting USC safeties.

Would be fun to watch.

no bare feet
12-29-2009, 04:41 PM
The biggest wild card in the entire draft. For me, he is one of the hardest prospects to project. He could go top 10 or fall to end of 1st. He just has too much raw talent to fall past 12.

zachsaints52
12-30-2009, 04:15 AM
The biggest wild card in the entire draft. For me, he is one of the hardest prospects to project. He could go top 10 or fall to end of 1st. He just has too much raw talent to fall past 12.

Tim Tebow much? haha

FUNBUNCHER
12-30-2009, 11:06 AM
Did anyone catch the bowl game between Texas A&M and Georgia??

Bulldog junior safety Reshad Jones had a 59-yard INT return that was simply a brilliant, instinctive, athletic play.

One thing that bothers me about Mays is that he's NEVER made a similar type of play, ( jumping a route - requiring speed, quickness, and INSTINCTS) on the ball in four years starting at USC.

He doesn't make many big plays by any definition and in many ways is coasting on his rep from USC.

I feel fairly confident in saying that if Mays is a top 12 draft pick, his play will never live up to his draft position.

GhostDeini
12-30-2009, 04:09 PM
Taylor Mays is the most overrated prospect of the decade. The guy has NEVER made a game changing play in his life and will still go top 15 in the draft. Some people even expect him to suddenly become what he was supposed to be once in the NFL but when does that ever happen ?

He is what he is, a hard hitter. He brings absolutely nothing else to the table. The guy never gets the ball in his hands and for playing centerfield that's worthless.

SickwithIt1010
12-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Taylor Mays is the most overrated prospect of the decade. The guy has NEVER made a game changing play in his life and will still go top 15 in the draft. Some people even expect him to suddenly become what he was supposed to be once in the NFL but when does that ever happen ?

He is what he is, a hard hitter. He brings absolutely nothing else to the table. The guy never gets the ball in his hands and for playing centerfield that's worthless.

You dont have to pick balls off to play centerfield, he does what he does and he makes sure those deep passes arent completed. No one is making him out to be the next Ed Reed, they are both centerfielders but they do it in different ways.

Hes going to be a main stay in someones defense for along time, and he will keep teams from throwing deep on them.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-30-2009, 04:53 PM
The thing I find interesting is for all the hate Mays gets, there aren't many people who wouldn't want him on their team.

That's because he's not an awful player, he's just overrated. It's similar to the Matt Ryan backlash when this forum hated that he was a lock top 3 pick. Most still thought he was a solid QB prospect...just not that good. Maybe a poor example, as Ryan turned out pretty well.

I think the Landry comparison that was made is apt for Mays.

Nard_Dog
12-30-2009, 04:55 PM
I do believe he was over-rated at the beginning of the season, now people are under-rating him a bit. Reading some post it seems like he has no talent at all, sure Mays isn't a play-making safety but he brings an intimidating force to any defense as a big hitter.

Babylon
12-30-2009, 05:24 PM
I'm not convinced he wouldnt be better playing closer to the line of scrimmage at FS. Ideally he uses his range and hitting ability down the field but i think with his lack of instincts pro QBs would take advantage of his being out of position.

FUNBUNCHER
12-30-2009, 05:56 PM
That's because he's not an awful player, he's just overrated. It's similar to the Matt Ryan backlash when this forum hated that he was a lock top 3 pick. Most still thought he was a solid QB prospect...just not that good. Maybe a poor example, as Ryan turned out pretty well.

I think the Landry comparison that was made is apt for Mays.

That's scary because Landry is busting big time in Redskinsland!!:eek:

Can't cover and won't tackle.

CC.SD
12-30-2009, 09:48 PM
I swear to God if Taylor drops into the 20s I will Rambo my way into the Charger war room to make them trade up for him.

cajuncorey
12-30-2009, 10:22 PM
I swear to God if Taylor drops into the 20s I will Rambo my way into the Charger war room to make them trade up for him.

STEVE FTW but do it more like Christian bale

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbP2djP0h5g

WorldBFree
12-30-2009, 10:58 PM
He reminds me of Roy Williams. A safety that always goes for the knockout hit and can't cover. I pray the Steelers get smart and pass on him.

Hines
12-30-2009, 11:01 PM
Did anyone catch the bowl game between Texas A&M and Georgia??

Bulldog junior safety Reshad Jones had a 59-yard INT return that was simply a brilliant, instinctive, athletic play.

One thing that bothers me about Mays is that he's NEVER made a similar type of play, ( jumping a route - requiring speed, quickness, and INSTINCTS) on the ball in four years starting at USC.

He doesn't make many big plays by any definition and in many ways is coasting on his rep from USC.

I feel fairly confident in saying that if Mays is a top 12 draft pick, his play will never live up to his draft position.

Yeah, but he missed quite a few tackles and has poor tackling technique. I love Jones and would love to have him on the Steelers, but Jones isn't much better than Mays.

D-Unit
12-30-2009, 11:29 PM
I swear to God if Taylor drops into the 20s I will Rambo my way into the Charger war room to make them trade up for him.
Why is it that the Chargers are always on par with the Cowboys as far as what prospects they are targeting? This has been happening for a while now. Crappy thing is that I've LOVED the Chargers drafts and have been high and low on the Cowboys ones. If I think they're taking Mays, I will Rambo my way into the Green Room and tackle the Chargers runner sending the name card up to the podium!!!

Thumper
12-30-2009, 11:39 PM
If Mays falls I will rambo my way into the Eagles war room and take out whoever is thinking of taking him... I agree with the sentiment that Mays is the next Roy Williams, he takes poor angles, doesn't wrap up, doesn't have ball skills and he doesn't have the speed or instincts to play FS in the NFL. He is the next Roy Williams.

EDIT: Scratch that... Taylor Mays is the next Laron Landry.

brat316
12-30-2009, 11:43 PM
Isn't Tyvon Branch leaving?

Borat
12-30-2009, 11:57 PM
All this talk of Ramboing is ******* awesome.

CC.SD
12-31-2009, 01:09 AM
Why is it that the Chargers are always on par with the Cowboys as far as what prospects they are targeting? This has been happening for a while now. Crappy thing is that I've LOVED the Chargers drafts and have been high and low on the Cowboys ones. If I think they're taking Mays, I will Rambo my way into the Green Room and tackle the Chargers runner sending the name card up to the podium!!!

Good luck, they are really going to make LT earn his 9 million and podium running is one of his new tasks.

There's definitely been some good comparison points for boys/bolts drafts lately. Mike Jenkins is a guy I really liked and am very glad to see him having success. You all can have Burnett back though he's pretty iffy in my book.

Honestly safety isn't even that huge of a need for the bolts but that's value you can't pass up. Really really think a lot of the Mays criticism is still from people who just don't watch him play all that much or at all. I'll even admit that he had a down year but Roy Williams? Just watch.

D-Unit
12-31-2009, 02:49 AM
Good luck, they are really going to make LT earn his 9 million and podium running is one of his new tasks.

There's definitely been some good comparison points for boys/bolts drafts lately. Mike Jenkins is a guy I really liked and am very glad to see him having success. You all can have Burnett back though he's pretty iffy in my book.

Honestly safety isn't even that huge of a need for the bolts but that's value you can't pass up. Really really think a lot of the Mays criticism is still from people who just don't watch him play all that much or at all. I'll even admit that he had a down year but Roy Williams? Just watch.
Yep. Roy Williams dreams of running as fast as Mays runs.

We don't want Burnett back. You guys want Olshansky back? LOL. Iffy is definitely the word...

GhostDeini
12-31-2009, 04:49 PM
And Mays dreams of being as good a college safety as Williams was. Let's not forget he won the Thorpe award as senior at OU (Ed Reed was obviously robbed).

Anyway, Williams came right into the NFL and lit it up. He was awesome his first 2-3 years then fell off the face of the earth after Santana Moss exposed him.

To me Mays compares to what Roy Williams eventually became and what Landry currently is.

stephenson86
12-31-2009, 05:12 PM
I swear to God if Taylor drops into the 20s I will Rambo my way into the Charger war room to make them trade up for him.

but then no mount cody????

FUNBUNCHER
12-31-2009, 05:59 PM
And Mays dreams of being as good a college safety as Williams was. Let's not forget he won the Thorpe award as senior at OU (Ed Reed was obviously robbed).

Anyway, Williams came right into the NFL and lit it up. He was awesome his first 2-3 years then fell off the face of the earth after Santana Moss exposed him.

To me Mays compares to what Roy Williams eventually became and what Landry currently is.

If Roy Williams could have ever run a sub 4.4, he'd be a top 10 safety in the NFL.

I still contend Mays needs serious positional coaching if he's ever going to be a quality free safety in the NFL.

No guy with his tools and experience should disappear as much as he does in a football game.
I bet he doesn't even really study film, however it took Sean Taylor a couple seasons to learn (from Ed Reed) that even great players can benefit from studying opponents tendencies instead of just relying on supreme athletic ability.

descendency
01-01-2010, 12:29 AM
You dont have to pick balls off to play centerfield, he does what he does and he makes sure those deep passes arent completed. No one is making him out to be the next Ed Reed, they are both centerfielders but they do it in different ways.

Hes going to be a main stay in someones defense for along time, and he will keep teams from throwing deep on them.

His only weapon in pass coverage is the big hit. His burst, his speed, and the rest of his "measureables" are clearly elite, but his football skills are in the C- to F range in terms of grading. He makes most of his plays based on pure athleticism which will not fly in the NFL. He needs to dedicated himself hardcore when he gets drafted to learning his position or else he will be Roy Williams all over again.

If Mays falls I will rambo my way into the Eagles war room and take out whoever is thinking of taking him... I agree with the sentiment that Mays is the next Roy Williams, he takes poor angles, doesn't wrap up, doesn't have ball skills and he doesn't have the speed or instincts to play FS in the NFL. He is the next Roy Williams.
His speed is great. He won't have to worry about speed. He doesn't have so much speed he can consistently make mistakes like he does in college though.