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Scott Wright
12-22-2009, 12:22 PM
On Wednesday, December 23rd at 7pm EST I will be appearing on a special draft edition episode of Scout NFL Radio with my buddy Chris Steuber. Here are the details, be sure to listen in!

Scout NFL Radio: Special Draft Edition
http://profootball.scout.com/2/931363.html

Note: The phone lines will be open; call in at 484-483-7448.

CC.SD
12-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Congratulations Scott! Pimp that site. Um, also keep promoting the trend of actually analyzing draft prospects instead of simply shouting loudly. It's good for America.

Scott Wright
12-23-2009, 10:42 AM
Don't forget to tune in tonight, should be a blast!

This isn't your average interview, it's two hard-core draftniks chatting for an hour!

It will be like Kiper and McShay, only better! :)

Brent
12-23-2009, 10:55 AM
It will be like Kiper and McShay, only better! :)
oh, so there will be actual discussion and not yelling at a camera? fantastic

jballa838
12-23-2009, 11:52 AM
this should be good. I liked your stuff you did last year. Please tell me there is a call in # for this. someone needs to let BOE get on the radio again.

Scott Wright
12-23-2009, 11:53 AM
The call in number is in my original post at the top of this page.

jballa838
12-23-2009, 12:03 PM
The call in number is in my original post at the top of this page.
I'm embarassed. I must not have picked up the italics.

Splat
12-23-2009, 01:24 PM
Talk about the Chiefs.


Like how they are going to take Rolando McClain.:)

FloridaSkinzFan
12-23-2009, 02:02 PM
Will tune in!

vikes_28
12-23-2009, 02:16 PM
I will most definitely be calling in and asking questions about the Vikings.

Scott Wright
12-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Less than an hour away, don't forget to tune in!

RaiderNation
12-23-2009, 05:36 PM
Gonna try to listen to some, might even call in. Hope it goes well

Scott Wright
12-23-2009, 05:49 PM
Starting in about ten minutes, be sure to tune in!

Nalej
12-23-2009, 05:53 PM
Should be good! I'm standing by!

marshallb
12-23-2009, 05:55 PM
I wish I could listen, but my internet has been terribly slow all day, and I highly doubt it will connect for me to stream it. I'll try though.

CC.SD
12-23-2009, 06:14 PM
Scott spreading some love to Anthony Davis. Smack down the fool pimping Okung, Scott!

RaiderNation
12-23-2009, 06:50 PM
Taylor Mays OLB?

Paul
12-23-2009, 06:50 PM
A Rush Backer?

Nalej
12-23-2009, 07:00 PM
CJ Spiller is a beast! I hope NE picks him up

critesy
12-23-2009, 07:06 PM
this guy he's talking too is kinda annoying.

StorminNorman
12-23-2009, 07:08 PM
17 of the starting QB's (including Brady Quinn) were first rounders. So the guy was wrong, haha.

Nalej
12-23-2009, 07:13 PM
A mini mock draft :D Go all the way to the Pats pick, at least!

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:14 PM
Funny how Scott makes his argument for taking a QB regardless of how many better prospects were on the board, then rips his own belief to shreds.

If the Rams draft a QB in Rd1 this year, that QB will fail. There's little doubt in my mind.

RaiderNation
12-23-2009, 07:17 PM
Cant wait for the raider pick. Taylor Mays, JPP, Dunlap :(

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:21 PM
Funny how Scott makes his argument for taking a QB regardless of how many better prospects were on the board, then rips his own belief to shreds.

If the Rams draft a QB in Rd1 this year, that QB will fail. There's little doubt in my mind.

How about if they sit him down for a year?

RaiderNation
12-23-2009, 07:23 PM
Hating on California I see lol

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:25 PM
How about if they sit him down for a year?

When was the last time a #1 overall pick QB actually sat a full year?

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:27 PM
When was the last time a #1 overall pick QB actually sat a full year?

I believe it was Palmer but I might be wrong. It's a moot point though, every team/coach has their own way of developing a QB.

Edit: Russell didn't play until week 13 but he was a lost cause anyways.

Nalej
12-23-2009, 07:32 PM
I believe it was Palmer but I might be wrong.


How'd that work out?

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:34 PM
How'd that work out?

I'd say it worked out well.:cool:

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:34 PM
I believe it was Palmer but I might be wrong. It's a moot point though, every team/coach has their own way of developing a QB.

Edit: Russell didn't play until week 13 but he was a lost cause anyways.

He almost didn't sign his contract until week 13...


Exaggerating, but his holdout all but eradicated his rookie season. I don't really think that qualifies as being redshirted.

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:37 PM
A few other guys who sat out there 1st year or at least part of their 1st year.

Eli Manning played week 1 and then didn't play again until week 11.
Rivers sat out his first year.

RaiderNation
12-23-2009, 07:37 PM
LMAO he will learn how to catch

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Chris- Davis is just as versatile as Williams, maybe even more versatile.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:44 PM
A few other guys who sat out there 1st year or at least part of their 1st year.

Eli Manning played week 1 and then didn't play again until week 11.
Rivers sat out his first year.

Rivers held out and wasn't even relevant because of the way Drew Brees was playing. The Rams won't have that luxury with Kyle Boller.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
LMAO he will learn how to catch

It's a disease in Oakland. Killing the old man won't cure it all. The building has to be burned down.

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 07:45 PM
Rivers held out and wasn't even relevant because of the way Drew Brees was playing. The Rams won't have that luxury with Kyle Boller.

Thats not the point. Rivers sat out his rookie season and now look at him.

Paul
12-23-2009, 07:53 PM
LMAO he will learn how to catch

Ha. That was awesome.

Nalej
12-23-2009, 07:54 PM
I'd say it worked out well.:cool:


Exactly :cool:


FYI, I don't trust Bradford's arm- especially now with injury. Clausen > Bradford if STL selects a QB in the 1st. Pro Style > Spread offense. Clausen seems more NFL ready and I like his upside better as well.

Nalej
12-23-2009, 07:57 PM
haha @ Taylor Mays to Raiders!!!

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:58 PM
Thats not the point. Rivers sat out his rookie season and now look at him.

It is the point. The Chargers didn't sit him to develop him. They sat him because he held out and they had a better option at QB. The Rams will not have that luxury. The pressure to put their hopeful franchise QB out there ASAP will be tremendous, and they will put him out there as a rookie. Behind that line, he'll get beaten to a pulp...and if they take Clausen, he'll probably fold up and need more than just some physical and schematic development. He'll have some real ego bruises to work through.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 07:59 PM
haha @ Taylor Mays to Raiders!!!

/seppuku..

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 08:02 PM
This nitwit actually believes that Mays would be a popular pick? What a doofus.

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 08:05 PM
It is the point. The Chargers didn't sit him to develop him. They sat him because he held out and they had a better option at QB. The Rams will not have that luxury. The pressure to put their hopeful franchise QB out there ASAP will be tremendous, and they will put him out there as a rookie. Behind that line, he'll get beaten to a pulp...and if they take Clausen, he'll probably fold up and need more than just some physical and schematic development. He'll have some real ego bruises to work through.

They drafted/traded for Rivers knowing Brees was going to be there another year. That gave Rivers the opportunity to sit and learn for a year. It was their masterplan and it worked.

As for the Rams, as Scott said earlier, they have some talent. They have Steven Jackson who is one of the best backs in the league. They have Alex Barron and Json Smith who shoul be improved next year. They don't have much at WR but I think they will address that somewhere in the 2nd through 4th range. I don't like to see any rookie QB playing but this is not a terrible situation.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 08:09 PM
They drafted/traded for Rivers knowing Brees was going to be there another year. That gave Rivers the opportunity to sit and learn for a year. It was their masterplan and it worked.

As for the Rams, as Scott said earlier, they have some talent. They have Stephen Jackson who is one of the best backs in the league. They have Alex Barron and Json Smith who shoul be improved next year. They don't have much at WR but I think they will address that somewhere in the 2nd through 4th range. I don't like to see any rookie QB playing but this is not a terrible situation.

Brees wasn't playing well prior to the Rivers pick. That's WHY they took Rivers. There was no master plan. That's ridiculous. Brees had been an overall disappointment and they were looking for an upgrade. When they drafted Rivers, the light went on in Brees' head and he started playing like a man who's job was on the line. Rivers held out and wasn't even able to compete for the job. That's why Rivers stayed on the bench for as long as he did. Anything else is completely revisionist history.

eeth
12-23-2009, 08:11 PM
lol at pepsi max

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 08:12 PM
Brees wasn't playing well prior to the Rivers pick. That's WHY they took Rivers. There was no master plan. That's ridiculous. Brees had been an overall disappointment and they were looking for an upgrade. When they drafted Rivers, the light went on in Brees' head and he started playing like a man who's job was on the line. Rivers held out and wasn't even able to compete for the job. That's why Rivers stayed on the bench for as long as he did. Anything else is completely revisionist history.

Regardless of what ever happened with Brees, Rivers sat out his rookie year and is now a top 5 QB in the league. Im just sayin.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Regardless of what ever happened with Brees, Rivers sat out his rookie year and is now a top 5 QB in the league. Im just sayin.

And it's still irrelevant because the Rams aren't in a position to sit their rookie behind a pro bowler. They have a Kyle Boller. Not the same. At all. Marc Bulger will either be cut in the offseason or put on IR by midseason. You really think their $60 million dollar draft pick will be allowed to stay on the pine at that point? No.

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 08:19 PM
And it's still irrelevant because the Rams aren't in a position to sit their rookie behind a pro bowler. They have a Kyle Boller. Not the same. At all. Marc Bulger will either be cut in the offseason or put on IR by midseason. You really think their $60 million dollar draft pick will be allowed to stay on the pine at that point? No.

Why not? Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year. And Kitna sure hell wasn't blowing anybody away.

You have your opinion and I have mine. End of debate.

Abaddon
12-23-2009, 08:22 PM
Why not? Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year. And Kitna sure hell wasn't blowing anybody away.

You have your opinion and I have mine. End of debate.

Oh, we're back to Palmer now? That's good, because he's the only legitimate reference point in recent memory.

Spin it anyway you want. The Rams aren't going to draft a QB, hand him that ridiculous contract, and let him carry a clipboard all year. Your opinion is based on irrelevant notions, and is thus inherently flawed. Sorry.

Hurricanes25
12-23-2009, 08:25 PM
Oh, we're back to Palmer now? That's good, because he's the only legitimate reference point in recent memory.

Spin it anyway you want. The Rams aren't going to draft a QB, hand him that ridiculous contract, and let him carry a clipboard all year. Your opinion is based on irrelevant notions, and is thus inherently flawed. Sorry.

Here is my last point. Like I said before, St. Louis is not a horrible situation for a rookie QB but the bust rate is much higher if a QB plays in year 1.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-23-2009, 11:11 PM
Taylor Mays OLB?


Did Scott say this? Whoever did hit the nail in the head.

Halsey
12-24-2009, 12:56 AM
Is there a way to download the show if you missed the live broadcast? I took a quick look around the link, but don't see it.

StorminNorman
12-24-2009, 01:00 AM
Here is my last point. Like I said before, St. Louis is not a horrible situation for a rookie QB but the bust rate is much higher if a QB plays in year 1.

Not really.

CC.SD
12-24-2009, 01:12 AM
Brees wasn't playing well prior to the Rivers pick. That's WHY they took Rivers. There was no master plan. That's ridiculous. Brees had been an overall disappointment and they were looking for an upgrade. When they drafted Rivers, the light went on in Brees' head and he started playing like a man who's job was on the line. Rivers held out and wasn't even able to compete for the job. That's why Rivers stayed on the bench for as long as he did. Anything else is completely revisionist history.

Hand to God. Brees was a complete scrub prior to 2004. Around the Charger boards there has been a lot of criticism over the last couple years regarding drafting Philip with Brees on the roster...but it wasn't the same Brees. He spent the early part of his career playing like a short guy with a weak arm. His protection did suck though.

Hurricanes25
12-24-2009, 11:07 AM
Not really.

St.Louis has a great running game with Steven Jackson. They have Jason Smith and Alex Barron as their tackles. It's not like Cleveland where they have nothing except Joe Thomas.

ElectricEye
12-24-2009, 11:08 AM
Did Scott say this? Whoever did hit the nail in the head.

Please watch more football. Please. It's painful.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 11:27 AM
Please watch more football. Please. It's painful.

Great opinion. Do you ever back any of your post up with facts or anything supporting your opinions? I have yet to see that in any of your insightful post.

keylime_5
12-24-2009, 11:33 AM
St.Louis has a great running game with Steven Jackson. They have Jason Smith and Alex Barron as their tackles. It's not like Cleveland where they have nothing except Joe Thomas.

uhhhh.....alex mack, eric steinbach. harrison for 286 yards against KC, team rushing for 200+ against Pittsburgh.

Paul
12-24-2009, 11:42 AM
Steuber (the host of the show) not only wanted Mays as a OLB, but as a rushbacker in a 34 defense. Scott retorted that he may work as a LB in a Cover 2 like the Colts or the Bears, but Steuber was pretty adamant about putting Mays in position to consistently going after the QB like a Ware, Harrison or a Clay Mathews. Which doesn't sound to good to me. I also love how he defended his argument by saying "We've never seen Mays rush the quarterback." No the exact quote but pretty close.

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Great opinion. Do you ever back any of your post up with facts or anything supporting your opinions? I have yet to see that in any of your insightful post.
I've often seen your opinion voiced (that he should be an NFL OLB), but I have yet to hear any facts that back up how that makes perfect sense. Could you elaborate?

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 11:53 AM
Steuber (the host of the show) not only wanted Mays as a OLB, but as a rushbacker in a 34 defense. Scott retorted that he may work as a LB in a Cover 2 like the Colts or the Bears, but Steuber was pretty adamant about putting Mays in position to consistently going after the QB like a Ware, Harrison or a Clay Mathews. Which doesn't sound to good to me. I also love how he defended his argument by saying "We've never seen Mays rush the quarterback." No the exact quote but pretty close.
I've never heard of this guy Steuber. Does he have any credibility? It sounds absolutely absurd to think Mays would be a 3-4 OLB. ABSURD. A 230 pound guy (who has never done it on the college level) is going to go head to head with NFL quality Left Tackles that weigh 300+ who have been doing it against the very best on the NFL level?! O RLY?

Shane P. Hallam
12-24-2009, 11:56 AM
I've never heard of this guy Steuber. Does he have any credibility? It sounds absolutely absurd to think Mays would be a 3-4 OLB. ABSURD. A 230 pound guy (who has never done it on the college level) is going to go head to head with NFL quality Left Tackles that weigh 300+ who have been doing it against the very best on the NFL level?! O RLY?

He works for Scout, has a pretty decent following, and talks to scouts and what not from what I can recollect.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:02 PM
I've often seen your opinion voiced (that he should be an NFL OLB), but I have yet to hear any facts that back up how that makes perfect sense. Could you elaborate?

This is my first post on Mays on this board so I don't know where you got that from. I usually try and post stats backing up what I say or other credible opinions from people who get paid to write about players weakness/strengths.

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 12:08 PM
This is my first post on Mays on this board so I don't know where you got that from. I usually try and post stats backing up what I say or other credible opinions from people who get paid to write about players weakness/strengths.
No, you're misunderstanding me. I've seen opinions like yours (Mays as an OLB) voiced by others on the subject... never have they made sense to me, and that is what I was referring to.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:10 PM
Steuber (the host of the show) not only wanted Mays as a OLB, but as a rushbacker in a 34 defense. Scott retorted that he may work as a LB in a Cover 2 like the Colts or the Bears, but Steuber was pretty adamant about putting Mays in position to consistently going after the QB like a Ware, Harrison or a Clay Mathews. Which doesn't sound to good to me. I also love how he defended his argument by saying "We've never seen Mays rush the quarterback." No the exact quote but pretty close.

Thanks for letting me know what was said. Steuber does right some good articles for the draft at scout thats a bad point trying to defend his argument. The reason I feel Mays would be better either in a SS role inside the box or at OLB is his change of direction and hips. Mays is at least a step too late in coverage much of the time, plus he goes for the big hit too often at the expense of a secure wrap-up tackle. Mays will post exceptional triangle numbers, but I think he is a bit stiff in the hips

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:11 PM
No, you're misunderstanding me. I've seen opinions like yours (Mays as an OLB) voiced by others on the subject... never have they made sense to me, and that is what I was referring to.

I usually provide links to credible people in the buisness that feel the same as me or stats to back up how I feel. Do you need me to copy examples of my post?

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:13 PM
I've never heard of this guy Steuber. Does he have any credibility? It sounds absolutely absurd to think Mays would be a 3-4 OLB. ABSURD. A 230 pound guy (who has never done it on the college level) is going to go head to head with NFL quality Left Tackles that weigh 300+ who have been doing it against the very best on the NFL level?! O RLY?

That say's alot to me on how your quick to judge someones opinion but know nothing about their work. Writes for Scout about the NFL draft.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:20 PM
I've never heard of this guy Steuber. Does he have any credibility? It sounds absolutely absurd to think Mays would be a 3-4 OLB. ABSURD. A 230 pound guy (who has never done it on the college level) is going to go head to head with NFL quality Left Tackles that weigh 300+ who have been doing it against the very best on the NFL level?! O RLY?

Thomas Davis made the transition.

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 12:26 PM
That say's alot to me on how your (the word you want is "you're", as in "you are". Not "your", because I don't own "quick") quick to judge someones opinion but know nothing about their work. Writes for Scout about the NFL draft.
One opinion doesn't make a man. Do you believe that? I don't. Just because I criticized his view, doesn't mean I am criticizing his entire work.

I asked about his credibility, right? Does he have any legitimate NFL background credentials or is he just an online blogger for a football site?

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 12:28 PM
Thomas Davis made the transition.
Before I go any further, is THIS all you got?

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:35 PM
One opinion doesn't make a man. Do you believe that? I don't. Just because I criticized his view, doesn't mean I am criticizing his entire work.

I asked about his credibility, right? Does he have any legitimate NFL background credentials or is he just an online blogger for a football site?

I'm sure Scott can back this up but he talks to scout and team reps. He works for Scout which is a credible site not some online blog.

It just seemed that the way you questioned him, maybe I'm wrong on that. BTW Thomas Davis has.

A 230 pound guy (who has never done it on the college level) is going to go head to head with NFL quality Left Tackles that weigh 300+ who have been doing it against the very best on the NFL level?! O RLY?

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:37 PM
Before I go any further, is THIS all you got?

To your question who has made the transition, yes it answers your question and covers all bases(didn't play postion in college, 230lbs etc.).

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:42 PM
If you would like other references from people that talk to scouts that feel Mays might be better at OLB I can post them. They work for other draft sites so I don't know if that would be an issue.

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 12:43 PM
To your question who has made the transition, yes it answers your question and covers all bases(didn't play postion in college, 230lbs etc.).
Are you sure? Because I want to make sure you provide all the facts and stats you need first. I just wanna answer you and not go around in circles. Been there, done that.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:45 PM
Are you sure? Because I want to make sure you provide all the facts and stats you need first. I just wanna answer you and not go around in circles. Been there, done that.

I feel fairly confident that he was a safety at Georgia who came into the draft at around 230 lbs and was moved to LB by the Carolina Panthers. I could be wrong though?

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 12:47 PM
Here is some evidence about what I posted.

He was voted a consensus All-American free safety after his junior season in 2004. Even though he was drafted as a safety in the 2005 NFL Draft, he was converted to linebacker during his rookie yearhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Davis_(American_football)

D-Unit
12-24-2009, 01:56 PM
Ok.

First off, Steuber is suggesting Mays as an NFL 3-4 Outside Linebacker. Thomas Davis is a 4-3 Strong Side LB. The differences are quite significant. Are you still defending Steuber's view or do you disagree with him there and instead rather consider Mays as a 4-3 SLB than a Safety? Or do you think that Mays is a better NFL LB than Safety no matter which scheme or assignment? Sorry for the questions, just looking for more clarity on your stance.

Secondly, Thomas Davis' body type is very different from Mays. Davis is a 6'0", 240 pound compact build. He may have been 230 out of college, but has since put on weight to suit him better as a LB. Even if you asked Mays to get to 240 pounds, we're talking about a completely different body type. At 6'3", Mays has 3 inches on Davis and is longer in his limbs. Would you make Adrian Wilson a LB? Would've been a shame if you did that to Steve Atwater too.

Third, speed. Davis never dreamed of having the same kind of speed and range that Mays is blessed with. The reason Davis was turned into a LB was because he was incapable of being a successful NFL safety. His speed limited him in his ability to keep up.

Fouth, Davis is a unique case. He is not the standard for what to do. How many have made a similar move and are good successful starting 4-3 LBs? Notice I'm still talking about Mays as a 4-3 LB and not a 3-4 OLB.

If you wanna argue that Mays is a better 3-4 OLB than a Safety, then let me know. That's a whole different can of worms. Ware is 6'4, 265. Merriman 6'4, 272. Shall we pack 30-40 more pounds on Mays to make him a projected 3-4 OLB just to see if it works like we think? As the ESPN Sunday Night Crew would say... "C'mon man!"

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 02:42 PM
My bad if I didn't clarify better but I never said Mays should be a 3-4 rush backer. I actually didn't agree with Steuber if you see below. I'm basically saying Mays would be better off in my opinion playing in side the box at SS or OLB (either weak or strong in a 4-3) and see my reason below. I gurantee that we will hear about this more leading up to the draft(espn,NFL network,websites) If I'm wrong and this is some crazy idea I came up with then we will be able to find this post pretty easy since it's stickied.

Thanks for letting me know what was said. Steuber does right some good articles for the draft at scout thats a bad point trying to defend his argument. The reason I feel Mays would be better either in a SS role inside the box or at OLB is his change of direction and hips. Mays is at least a step too late in coverage much of the time, plus he goes for the big hit too often at the expense of a secure wrap-up tackle. Mays will post exceptional triangle numbers, but I think he is a bit stiff in the hips

ElectricEye
12-24-2009, 08:08 PM
Mays is at least a step too late in coverage much of the time, plus he goes for the big hit too often at the expense of a secure wrap-up tackle. Mays will post exceptional triangle numbers, but I think he is a bit stiff in the hips

I'm honestly convinced you haven't watched a single game in Taylor May's college football career. Anyone who says he should transition to OLB PROBABLY hasn't. They've just hear "oh, he don't get picks lul" and are like "OMGZZZZ OLB!!!!". Let me say this simply and clearly. Taylor Mays isn't a bad deep cover safety. He isn't even a good one. He's the BEST deep coverage safety in college football. The SS at USC is a glorified rover. They absolutely NEVER match up in coverage with anyone but a tight end or an runningback. Even then, it's man coverage. Never deep stuff. Want to know why? Because Mays is blessed with such ungodly speed that they can afford to play Cover 1 the entire game. If you like numbers, look at the number of passes completed over 20 yards against USC last year when Mays was completely healthy and playing with a competent defense. They're absolutely mind blowing. The very fact that you, among others, come in here without any knowledge of Taylor Mays' game and say he should be an OLB is insulting to the process of scouting.

If you're going to knock him, knock him for legitimate reasons. There's enough of them. Is he a playmaker? Absolutely not. He'll be lucky to average one or two interceptions a year. Is he always in the right place at the right time? No. But his recovery speed is so absolutely insane that it allows him to catch up and break up balls from damn near half the field away. His biggest weakness is that he doesn't play the ball. He's excellent at waiting for it to come to the guy and separating them from it, but he doesn't play the ball. You're knock on his hips is again, completely unfounded. That's something you can't back up with numbers, but again, watch the guy play. Watch the way USC's defense is run. Would a team that's consistently loaded with NFL caliber athletes, especially on defense, really put a guy that's going to end up at linebacker back in Cover 1 EVERY SINGLE PLAY in the Pac 10? I think that's a pretty obvious answer. Hey, I've got a good idea to hide our guy who can't cover...make him cover every play and be the only person doing deep zone! That sounds smart! Wait for the scouting reports to come out. Nobody will say anything you said...at all. Frankly, they'll say the exact opposite.

I have no problem with someone saying that they don't like Mays because he isn't a playmaker. That's a debate. We can talk about the value of interceptions and big plays for a safety. But you don't say that you think Ndamukong Suh should play corner because he gets a few interceptions a year.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-24-2009, 09:10 PM
Even ignoring the somewhat warped view of Mays' coverage skills, I have absolutely no idea why people list Mays' poor tackling technique as a reason he'd be moved to linebacker. I'd much rather someone that tends to go headhunting and doesn't wrap up be called upon most often to tackle prone receivers rather than stick him where his lack of tackling technique would be most exposed. One could even argue that his stiff hips would be a much bigger hindrance in the short field defensive game.

I just don't get the linebacker thing. It makes no sense.

Abaddon
12-24-2009, 09:12 PM
Hand to God. Brees was a complete scrub prior to 2004. Around the Charger boards there has been a lot of criticism over the last couple years regarding drafting Philip with Brees on the roster...but it wasn't the same Brees. He spent the early part of his career playing like a short guy with a weak arm. His protection did suck though.

That's the part that bugs me. Let's draft a QB, but instead of drafting some big guys to protect him, let's draft someone for him to try to throw to while he's running for his life.

I see it every year and it drives me insane.

Gotta hand it to Atlanta. They took Ryan, which I was a little leery of considering their overall talent issues on offense. Then, they came back in the same round and grabbed a LT. Maybe not an elite LT, but a pretty damn decent prospect who really outperformed expectations. They also went out and got him a stud HB. They had a plan, and it was a good one.

Then I look at Oakland, and I weep.

ElectricEye
12-24-2009, 09:17 PM
Even ignoring the somewhat warped view of Mays' coverage skills, I have absolutely no idea why people list Mays' poor tackling technique as a reason he'd be moved to linebacker. I'd much rather someone that tends to go headhunting and doesn't wrap up be called upon most often to tackle prone receivers rather than stick him where his lack of tackling technique would be most exposed. One could even argue that his stiff hips would be a much bigger hindrance in the short field defensive game.

I just don't get the linebacker thing. It makes no sense.

Agree 1000%. All of those are really decent reasons to knock Taylor Mays, except maybe the stiff hips thing. Don't think he has those. He doesn't turn his hips as quick as some other defensive backs do, but it's not a legitimate problem for him. It's laughable that some try knock his coverage. I'm sure we'll get some kind of backpedal, nonresponse, or ******** justification as to why he projects at linebacker in the NFL when he's just a dominance coverage safety in college...or some combination of all three of those.

Abaddon
12-24-2009, 09:30 PM
Here is my last point. Like I said before, St. Louis is not a horrible situation for a rookie QB but the bust rate is much higher if a QB plays in year 1.

So I'm left asking, what makes St. Louis not a bad place to dump a rookie QB? Their 1st round pick tackles aren't exactly playing up to expectations. Their interior OL isn't very good. They do have a couple young WRs that I think have bright futures (given a lot of help on the OL) and a stud HB. But there's no defense. Pair the lack of defense with the lack of pass protection and you're looking at an excellent opportunity to see a rookie get his skull caved in, ala David Carr and Scott's boy Joey Heisman.

I look at guys like Flacco and Roethlisberger, Eli and Cutler, etc, etc, and I see guys who were given some tools to work with and a supporting cast that could bail them out when they did some rookie sh/t. Can't see the Rams offering that.

If it's me, I'm taking the clear cut best player on the board (Suh), then looking for some interior OLs or a QB in Rd2. If Pike or McCoy is there when their 2nd pick rolls around, they can take that guy and comfortably redshirt him without having a monster salary shoving them onto the field before the team is ready to prop them up.

Definitely gotta get that pass protection figured out before putting a fragile rookie ego in the line of fire.

Iamcanadian
12-26-2009, 10:23 AM
That's the part that bugs me. Let's draft a QB, but instead of drafting some big guys to protect him, let's draft someone for him to try to throw to while he's running for his life.

I see it every year and it drives me insane.

Gotta hand it to Atlanta. They took Ryan, which I was a little leery of considering their overall talent issues on offense. Then, they came back in the same round and grabbed a LT. Maybe not an elite LT, but a pretty damn decent prospect who really outperformed expectations. They also went out and got him a stud HB. They had a plan, and it was a good one.

Then I look at Oakland, and I weep.


How did Sam Baker LT outperform expectations since he was injured most of the 2008 season and didn't start one game in his rookie year. While I do agree that it is a solid plan to find a stud LT when you draft a QB, it doesn't mean that a QB cannot be OK till the position is filled.
Flacco didn't exactly have all that much at LT either. Ogden had just retired and Gaither, a 5th round pick with 2 starts, was going to replace him.
Personally, I don't think QB's fail all that much because they are drafted by bad teams, after all Peyton went 3-13 in his rookie year and Aikman went 1-15 as a rookie. QB's fail because they lack mental toughness, the ability to put the last play behind them and get up and try again, they lack pocket awareness and often have 'happy feet' indicating they fear their opponents. They just don't have the 'it' factor and fail because of it.
I can only think of one 1st round QB who failed with his original team and went on to have a very successful career including winning a Super Bowl, Jim Plunkett, all the rest never were very successful no matter how many teams they played for after their initial failure.

wonderbredd24
12-26-2009, 10:41 AM
How did Sam Baker LT outperform expectations since he was injured most of the 2008 season and didn't start one game in his rookie year. While I do agree that it is a solid plan to find a stud LT when you draft a QB, it doesn't mean that a QB cannot be OK till the position is filled.
Flacco didn't exactly have all that much at LT either. Ogden had just retired and Gaither, a 5th round pick with 2 starts, was going to replace him.
Personally, I don't think QB's fail all that much because they are drafted by bad teams, after all Peyton went 3-13 in his rookie year and Aikman went 1-15 as a rookie. QB's fail because they lack mental toughness, the ability to put the last play behind them and get up and try again, they lack pocket awareness and often have 'happy feet' indicating they fear their opponents. They just don't have the 'it' factor and fail because of it.
I can only think of one 1st round QB who failed with his original team and went on to have a very successful career including winning a Super Bowl, Jim Plunkett, all the rest never were very successful no matter how many teams they played for after their initial failure.

Tarik Glenn, LT 19th overall in 1997
Marvin Harrison, WR 19th overall in 1996
Marshall Faulk, RB 2nd overall in 1994

The Colts had the foundation in place for Peyton Manning to succeed before he was drafted. You really need to stop using him as an example of a QB brought into a horrible situation, because it simply isn't true.

Troy Aikman is a far better example, but even he wasn't totally without help. Michael Irvin was selected 11th the year before Troy Aikman was brought in.

Steve Young was a 1st round pick, who failed miserably in Tampa before finding Hall of Fame caliber success in San Francisco.

Shane P. Hallam
12-26-2009, 11:17 AM
How did Sam Baker LT outperform expectations since he was injured most of the 2008 season and didn't start one game in his rookie year. While I do agree that it is a solid plan to find a stud LT when you draft a QB, it doesn't mean that a QB cannot be OK till the position is filled.
Flacco didn't exactly have all that much at LT either. Ogden had just retired and Gaither, a 5th round pick with 2 starts, was going to replace him.
Personally, I don't think QB's fail all that much because they are drafted by bad teams, after all Peyton went 3-13 in his rookie year and Aikman went 1-15 as a rookie. QB's fail because they lack mental toughness, the ability to put the last play behind them and get up and try again, they lack pocket awareness and often have 'happy feet' indicating they fear their opponents. They just don't have the 'it' factor and fail because of it.
I can only think of one 1st round QB who failed with his original team and went on to have a very successful career including winning a Super Bowl, Jim Plunkett, all the rest never were very successful no matter how many teams they played for after their initial failure.

Baker started 5 games his rookie year and played extremely well when healthy.

CC.SD
12-26-2009, 11:20 AM
Taylor Mays 3-4 OLB > QB to DE because he knows what other QBs are thinking.

No seriously it's okay that Taylor has never rushed the passer, put him out there...he won't know what can't be done!

Raider_fan_Canada
12-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Any way to download the podcast? It has to be my connexion but the podcast stops every 3-5 minutes. :-(

NGSeiler
12-27-2009, 12:33 AM
As for the Rams, as Scott said earlier, they have some talent. They have Steven Jackson who is one of the best backs in the league. They have Alex Barron and Json Smith who shoul be improved next year. They don't have much at WR but I think they will address that somewhere in the 2nd through 4th range. I don't like to see any rookie QB playing but this is not a terrible situation.

Don't be surprised if the Rams let Alex Barron walk in free agency. He's entirely inconsistent and hasn't lived up to his potential at all. He can't get control of his penalties, and Jason Smith was drafted to be the LT of the future anyways. As for it not being a terrible situation, I guess it depends on whom you talk to. I doubt you'll find many who think it's a solid or good situation. Simply put, this offense has zero playmakers outside of Jackson. They have nothing resembling a legit #1 receiver, and their personnel at tight end is unimpressive. Unless the Rams have a very busy offseason, then a first round rookie QB isn't going to have a lot of help when he takes the field at some point next season.

So I'm left asking, what makes St. Louis not a bad place to dump a rookie QB? Their 1st round pick tackles aren't exactly playing up to expectations. Their interior OL isn't very good. They do have a couple young WRs that I think have bright futures (given a lot of help on the OL) and a stud HB. But there's no defense. Pair the lack of defense with the lack of pass protection and you're looking at an excellent opportunity to see a rookie get his skull caved in, ala David Carr and Scott's boy Joey Heisman.

I look at guys like Flacco and Roethlisberger, Eli and Cutler, etc, etc, and I see guys who were given some tools to work with and a supporting cast that could bail them out when they did some rookie sh/t. Can't see the Rams offering that.

If it's me, I'm taking the clear cut best player on the board (Suh), then looking for some interior OLs or a QB in Rd2. If Pike or McCoy is there when their 2nd pick rolls around, they can take that guy and comfortably redshirt him without having a monster salary shoving them onto the field before the team is ready to prop them up.

Definitely gotta get that pass protection figured out before putting a fragile rookie ego in the line of fire.

Very well said, I'd say I agree with most if not all of that.

vikes_28
12-27-2009, 12:47 AM
I forgoted to tune in :(

Raider_fan_Canada
12-27-2009, 02:48 AM
I forgoted to tune in :(

There you go. That link works well.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/3380171

Scott Wright
12-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Here's a link to listen to the archive: http://profootball.scout.com/2/931830.html

RealityCheck
12-28-2009, 11:50 AM
Listening to it now. Great job Scott.

keylime_5
12-28-2009, 11:57 AM
Mark Sanchez or Alex Mack and all the "spare" parts we got in exchange.....so far I'd go with the latter. Mack is a beast at center. Sanchez is 54 completion pct. and 20 INTs on the best running team in the NFL with a great defense and Edwards/Cotchery/Keller/Washington/Jones/Green at skill positions.

RealityCheck
12-28-2009, 12:18 PM
Seriously, I wanted to see Steuber's face when Scott said Koa Misi should be a 1st round pick.

Scott Wright
12-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Mark Sanchez or Alex Mack and all the "spare" parts we got in exchange.....so far I'd go with the latter. Mack is a beast at center. Sanchez is 54 completion pct. and 20 INTs on the best running team in the NFL with a great defense and Edwards/Cotchery/Keller/Washington/Jones/Green at skill positions.

I'm pretty sure every team in the league would go with a good young QB over a good young C.

keylime_5
12-28-2009, 01:17 PM
yes, no doubt. but i'm saying so far sanchez hasn't panned out and mack has. too early to tell who won that trade. if brady quinn works out (looks bleak) then it's all moot.