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Draft King
03-12-2007, 01:03 PM
I'm going to be a risk taker with these records.

Atlanta Falcons - 10-6
New Orleans Saints - 10-6
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 8-8
Carolina Panthers - 7-9

Hoo-rah.

etk
03-12-2007, 01:34 PM
Tampa Bay - 10-6
New Orleans - 10-6
Carolina - 8-8
Atlanta - 5-11

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 01:43 PM
1. Saints - 11-5
2. Falcons - 8-8
3. Panthers - 7-9
4. Buccaneers - 5-11

etk
03-12-2007, 01:48 PM
Explain your Bucs pick SaintsFan. If we get CJ we will be far from 5-11. The Falcons are not the 2nd best team in the division either.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 02:01 PM
Explain your Bucs pick SaintsFan. If we get CJ we will be far from 5-11. The Falcons are not the 2nd best team in the division either.

Don't kid yourself. The Bucs are not a good team at all, and there isn't one single player in the draft that will change that. Your Offensive and Defensive Lines are weak, and your "key players" (Garcia, Brooks, Barber, Quarles, Galloway, Rice) are all entering the twilight of their careers. I'm not sold on any of your offensive players other than Cadillac (and he can't do much behind that weak line), and that once dominant D just doesn't have it anymore. A rookie WR will not change a 4-12 team to 10-6, and they haven't made any significant upgrades over last year's team yet. Jeff Garcia had MUCH more talent surrounding him in Philly, so don't be surprised if and when you get the Detroit or Cleveland version of Garcia.

The Falcons and Panthers should battle it out for #2, so how can you say they aren't the #2 team in the division?

toonsterwu
03-12-2007, 02:16 PM
I think the Bucs line is better than you make it out to be. Petitgout is an upgrade at LT, Trueblood/Joseph will have gotten more experience, and Davis likely slides inside, allowing them to better run the ball. Could use another interior lineman perhaps, but history has shown they can be found later. A pickup of, say, Satele or Fry inside at center, with Joseph/Davis at guard, and Petitgout/Trueblood looks like a solid starting 5 to me. An improved running game should help the passing game.

Not sayiing the Bucs will do anything great this year, as this is the Saints division to lose as of right now, but I think their line is better than you make it sound.

Shiver
03-12-2007, 02:16 PM
1. Saints - 11-5
2. Falcons - 8-8
3. Panthers - 7-9
4. Buccaneers - 5-11


This I agree with at this moment.

etk
03-12-2007, 02:18 PM
We have our share of problems, but Gruden is a good coach and he will focus on our key pieces. Simms will be back to his 05 form and so will Cadillac behind an improved and more experienced line. CJ will be a much-needed playmaker. Our defensive line will be brutal I expect, but hopefully Simeon can have another pro-bowl caliber season. Barrett Ruud is stepping in at LB and he is a budding young star, so LB should be a strength with Nece entering his prime and Brooks still in top-shape (age is becoming a problem though). Ronde is getting older, but Phillip Buchanon will get a chance to learn the system this year and use his talents to start over Kelly. Our safeties are entering their prime so they should improve.

All of this adds up to a playoff contender at the very least, and I can't see our record being lower than 7-9. The Falcons have a ton of weaknesses and are having a bad offseason IMO, so I think they are a lock to finish last in our division. Carolina is not as talented as usual this year, but they could surprise as always.

zCaddyz
03-12-2007, 02:23 PM
Sains 10-6
Bucs 8-8
Falcons 6-10
Panthers 5-11 i hate jake and he's gonna sux next year

toonsterwu
03-12-2007, 02:27 PM
Odd, I thought I had posted my "as of now" order ...

Anyhow

1. Saints - It's their division to lose. They've had a very solid offseason so far acquiring leadership, taking good gambles, and improving key aspects of the team. A good draft, and they could set themselves pretty for the short and long term. Expected win range as of now: 10-12.

2. Panthers - It's a make or break year, but if they are healthy on the OL, the entire team should be better. Another receiving option (or 2) is needed, so we'll see how that goes. Defensively, they need some help at safety. I think their corners will rebound. It'll be interesting to see if a DL addition is added, and LB, as usual, could use some more work still. Expected win range as of now: 6-9.

3. Falcons - Very close with the Panthers, but I'm concerned about the defense. The trenches should be a big concern on either side, especially the defense, with Grady Jackson coming off surgery. Offensively, how fast they adapt to Petrino's schemes will determine how well they do. Expected win range as of now: 6-9.

4. Buccaneers - Make or break season for this leadership, so expect them to go full bore. A nice complement of picks will help. The improved offensive line should help protect whoever the QB is. Best guess as of now is the veteran Jeff Garcia. The power run game should be able to get going. They need another key receiving option. Defensive concerns are littered everywhere, especially up front. Can they build a solid enough unit? It's possible, and with extra picks, they can, at the very least, add to the depth. I have a similar win range, as of now, to the other two squads: 6-8.

Tis early, and changes will happen and could shake up the order somewhat.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 02:29 PM
I think the Bucs line is better than you make it out to be. Petitgout is an upgrade at LT, Trueblood/Joseph will have gotten more experience, and Davis likely slides inside, allowing them to better run the ball. Could use another interior lineman perhaps, but history has shown they can be found later. A pickup of, say, Satele or Fry inside at center, with Joseph/Davis at guard, and Petitgout/Trueblood looks like a solid starting 5 to me. An improved running game should help the passing game.

Not sayiing the Bucs will do anything great this year, as this is the Saints division to lose as of right now, but I think their line is better than you make it sound.

Eh, the right side of the line has good upside in Joseph & Trueblood, but the rest of the line is still pretty weak if you ask me. Petitgout is average. Davis has been incredibly inconsistent, and Wade is way past his best days. The O-Line has been Tampa's main weakness for a few years now, and even if it performs slightly better next season, it's still far from "good."

The main thing is that this is an aging team, big time, and is about to have to enter a rebuilding process.

etk
03-12-2007, 02:32 PM
We are only entering a rebuilding process on defense, and not at all positions either. Don't get your hopes up, the Bucs will not be an easy out for the Saints and we are not a cakewalk rebuilding team. We still have key young pieces and we are about to draft more.

Shiver
03-12-2007, 02:36 PM
We have our share of problems, but Gruden is a good coach and he will focus on our key pieces. Simms will be back to his 05 form and so will Cadillac behind an improved and more experienced line. CJ will be a much-needed playmaker. Our defensive line will be brutal I expect, but hopefully Simeon can have another pro-bowl caliber season. Barrett Ruud is stepping in at LB and he is a budding young star, so LB should be a strength with Nece entering his prime and Brooks still in top-shape (age is becoming a problem though). Ronde is getting older, but Phillip Buchanon will get a chance to learn the system this year and use his talents to start over Kelly. Our safeties are entering their prime so they should improve.

All of this adds up to a playoff contender at the very least, and I can't see our record being lower than 7-9. The Falcons have a ton of weaknesses and are having a bad offseason IMO, so I think they are a lock to finish last in our division. Carolina is not as talented as usual this year, but they could surprise as always.

This post was humorous to me. It's littered with optimism, and speculative assumptions. If I wanted to post two paragraphs as to why each player on the Falcons would have their 'best individual seasons ever,' and other conjecture about the team, I could do so easily. The post reached new levels of absurdity when you state your opinion that the Falcons "are a lock to finish last in our division." When all the facts led me to believe that the Saints were likewise going to struggle last year. I was wrong about that, and I admitted such. No team in the NFL is a "lock" for anything.

hugepunch
03-12-2007, 02:38 PM
i tihnk the falcons might have a huge year and they have the opportunity to select who they want to in the draft. i think the falcons will win this division. if vick plays well...

Jensen
03-12-2007, 02:40 PM
1. Saints (11-5)
2. Panthers (9-7)
3. Falcons (8-8)
4. Buccaneers (6-10)

Auron
03-12-2007, 02:42 PM
Very optimistic look from me right now.

Saints 11-5 - very optimistic on this.. we have a VERY tough schedule this year, but if Defensive upgrades are made through the Draft this record is attainable.

Panthers 10 - 6 - I think they are still a good team, which fell harshly victim to the injury bug last season. If they can keep their key players healthy I think they can take a wild card spot, or possibly challenge for the division. We haven't beaten the Panthers under Payton yet.

Falcons 8-8 - tough to say.. first year for players adjusting in the new scheme, and system, I'm going to say they show signs of improvement, but not quite there yet.

Buccaneers 5-11 - still a lot of question marks along the O-line, how will the QB situation turn out? they need to add some youth to an aging Defense as well.


last year was a bit of a down year for the NFC South, my fear is that either Carolina, or Atlanta will go back to contending form and be legit contenders, or that TB might be a surprise team.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 02:44 PM
We are only entering a rebuilding process on defense, and not at all positions either. Don't get your hopes up, the Bucs will not be an easy out for the Saints and we are not a cakewalk rebuilding team. We still have key young pieces and we are about to draft more.

You are entirely too optimistic. It's nearing the point of humor.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 02:44 PM
Very optimistic look from me right now.

Saints 11-5 - very optimistic on this.. we have a VERY tough schedule this year, but if Defensive upgrades are made through the Draft this record is attainable.

We have one of the easiest schedules in the league next year...

Auron
03-12-2007, 02:45 PM
You are entirely too optimistic. It's nearing the point of humor.

Lol did the Bucs even get a Divisional win at all this season? Panthers, Falcons, & Saints swept them..

I'm not saying they can't improve..because certainly they won't be as bad as this season, but they have to re-tool almost their entire D-line.. (White, McFarland, possibly Rice who might be a cap casualty) and they have issues with Secondary depth... outside of Ronde.

toonsterwu
03-12-2007, 02:50 PM
Eh, the right side of the line has good upside in Joseph & Trueblood, but the rest of the line is still pretty weak if you ask me. Petitgout is average. Davis has been incredibly inconsistent, and Wade is way past his best days. The O-Line has been Tampa's main weakness for a few years now, and even if it performs slightly better next season, it's still far from "good."

The main thing is that this is an aging team, big time, and is about to have to enter a rebuilding process.

Not really discussing the Bucs in general, but the OL

Davis has been inconsistent at LT because well, he really doesn't have the skillset for it. Now, no one knows how he'd do inside, but the skillset matches up much better, and Petitgout is, while not good, still a decent starting LT in the NFL, and definitely an upgrade from Davis. Not saying it's a great line, but I think it'd be in the mid-tier of the NFL.

Auron
03-12-2007, 02:53 PM
We have one of the easiest schedules in the league next year...

How is it easy?

We play the Defending Champion Colts, at their house.

We play @ Qwest, and @ Soldier, 2 legit NFC contenders in harsh road enviroments. (Seahawks, Bears)

We draw the Eagles at home again.. this time they'll have McNabb back and it'll be a revenge game for them.

The rest of NFC South has a chance of being much improved, Jacksonville, Tennessee won't be cake walks either..


very far from easy, I'd say it's one of more difficult schedules in the league. The overall number for Strength of Schedule is brought down by the Division opponents.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 02:54 PM
To everybody who is saying that the Bucs defense is old, the average age is 27.7. I didn't include practice squad players or anything, I just did the average age of the players who played.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 02:54 PM
Not really discussing the Bucs in general, but the OL

Davis has been inconsistent at LT because well, he really doesn't have the skillset for it. Now, no one knows how he'd do inside, but the skillset matches up much better, and Petitgout is, while not good, still a decent starting LT in the NFL, and definitely an upgrade from Davis. Not saying it's a great line, but I think it'd be in the mid-tier of the NFL.

Petitgout has played every O-Line position except center. If I were a Bucs fan I would be pulling hard for them to draft Joe Thomas over Calvin Johnson and either place Petitgout at left guard, or have him as the primary backup at every O-Line position.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 02:56 PM
Lol did the Bucs even get a Divisional win at all this season? Panthers, Falcons, & Saints swept them..

I'm not saying they can't improve..because certainly they won't be as bad as this season, but they have to re-tool almost their entire D-line.. (White, McFarland, possibly Rice who might be a cap casualty) and they have issues with Secondary depth... outside of Ronde.

No he won't. We have plenty of cap space. 13+ million

Shiver
03-12-2007, 02:56 PM
To everybody who is saying that the Bucs defense is old, the average age is 27.7. I didn't include practice squad players or anything, I just did the average age of the players who played.

The problem is the only really old players were the only really good players on the defense. Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, Kevin Carter, etcetera.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Not really discussing the Bucs in general, but the OL

Davis has been inconsistent at LT because well, he really doesn't have the skillset for it. Now, no one knows how he'd do inside, but the skillset matches up much better, and Petitgout is, while not good, still a decent starting LT in the NFL, and definitely an upgrade from Davis. Not saying it's a great line, but I think it'd be in the mid-tier of the NFL.


Don't forget Dan Buenning. He is a good LG. He will probably miss the first couple of games healing from his ACL injury from last year.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 03:00 PM
To everybody who is saying that the Bucs defense is old, the average age is 27.7. I didn't include practice squad players or anything, I just did the average age of the players who played.

Derrick Brooks is entering his 13th year in the league. Simeon Rice is entering his 12th. Shelton Quarles and Ronde Barber? 11th. Brian Kelly, 10th. Kevin Carter, 13th. This is a defense whose key players are all old, there is no denying that, so don't even try.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 03:04 PM
The problem is the only really old players were the only really good players on the defense. Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, Kevin Carter, etcetera.


True, but we should draft a couple of defensive lineman early and have them play when Rice, Carter, Etc.. get tired. I think Winborn will get more playing time at WLB to let Brooks stay fresh. At corner, Buchanon and Zemaitis are young. Barber and Kelly are still good.

hugepunch
03-12-2007, 03:05 PM
Petitgout has played every O-Line position except center. If I were a Bucs fan I would be pulling hard for them to draft Joe Thomas over Calvin Johnson and either place Petitgout at left guard, or have him as the primary backup at every O-Line position. that would be stupid. having watched luke his whole career hes a solid LT. passing up on calvin would be a huge blunder. reese is stupid for cutting him. i dont care what any giant fan says. he would have restructured his contract for us. instead reese cuts him, now we have a LG as our LT.

Auron
03-12-2007, 03:06 PM
The problem is the only really old players were the only really good players on the defense. Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, Simeon Rice, Kevin Carter, etcetera.

I think they have some young building blocks for the future, like Barrett Ruud... Ellis Wyms looks like a promising player as well.

but the main core of that Defense, Brooks, Simeon, Barber, Quarles.. are getting up there in years...

I'm concerned with their secondary depth..they have Ronde.. but is anyone really high on Kelly, Bolden, Buchanon? whatever happened to Zemaitis? maybe that group just had a down a year.

either way I'm going to be interested to see how they draft this season.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 03:07 PM
Derrick Brooks is entering his 13th year in the league. Simeon Rice is entering his 12th. Shelton Quarles and Ronde Barber? 11th. Brian Kelly, 10th. Kevin Carter, 13th. This is a defense whose key players are all old, there is no denying that, so don't even try.


I'm not denying it. It seems like everybody makes it seem like every player on our defense is 35+ when it's not true.

Shiver
03-12-2007, 03:09 PM
I remember taking all sorts of flak for predicting the defense's demise. They ranked in the bottom half of the league in yardage and points. Yet, one year later, all their veterans are even older. They are going to get better? I disagree with that assessment. I like the Bucs offense, with Garcia at the helm, an improving O-Line, I have said so before. That said I think they will have to get accustomed to getting into shootouts.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 03:15 PM
I think they have some young building blocks for the future, like Barrett Ruud... Ellis Wyms looks like a promising player as well.

but the main core of that Defense, Brooks, Simeon, Barber, Quarles.. are getting up there in years...

I'm concerned with their secondary depth..they have Ronde.. but is anyone really high on Kelly, Bolden, Buchanon? whatever happened to Zemaitis? maybe that group just had a down a year.

either way I'm going to be interested to see how they draft this season.

It doesn't help the secondary when the players don't like the coach they hired. Now that we have Morris back the secondary should improve greatly. Zemaitis had trouble learning and understanding the defense. Buchanon played good after he learned the defense. Kelly doesn't get hardly any repect but he is just as good, if not better than Barber. We have young players that can step in right away and play if they have to. The only area we need to get good, young players is at DE. That should happen in the upcoming draft.

Flyboy
03-12-2007, 03:18 PM
How is it easy?

We play the Defending Champion Colts, at their house.

We play @ Qwest, and @ Soldier, 2 legit NFC contenders in harsh road enviroments. (Seahawks, Bears)

We draw the Eagles at home again.. this time they'll have McNabb back and it'll be a revenge game for them.

The rest of NFC South has a chance of being much improved, Jacksonville, Tennessee won't be cake walks either..


very far from easy, I'd say it's one of more difficult schedules in the league. The overall number for Strength of Schedule is brought down by the Division opponents.

Yeah, I agree. We have a pretty rough schedule next year, definitely not as "easy" as it appears on paper.

one_of_a_kind24
03-12-2007, 03:18 PM
I remember taking all sorts of flak for predicting the defense's demise. They ranked in the bottom half of the league in yardage and points. Yet, one year later, all their veterans are even older. They are going to get better? I disagree with that assessment. I like the Bucs offense, with Garcia at the helm, an improving O-Line, I have said so before. That said I think they will have to get accustomed to getting into shootouts.


I agree. We have been drafting heavily on offense that past few drafts so we won't have to rely on our defense. This team has the players that can score points.

Caddy
03-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Tampa 16-0 :)

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 03:38 PM
How is it easy?

We play the Defending Champion Colts, at their house.

We play @ Qwest, and @ Soldier, 2 legit NFC contenders in harsh road enviroments. (Seahawks, Bears)

We draw the Eagles at home again.. this time they'll have McNabb back and it'll be a revenge game for them.

The rest of NFC South has a chance of being much improved, Jacksonville, Tennessee won't be cake walks either..


very far from easy, I'd say it's one of more difficult schedules in the league. The overall number for Strength of Schedule is brought down by the Division opponents.

It doesn't matter what brings our strength of schedule down, the bottom line is we have the 6th easiest schedule for 2007 based on SOS. We only play 4 teams that made the playoffs this season. It's an easy schedule.

Bradentonian
03-12-2007, 03:41 PM
The Bucs are not a good team, and the majority of the offseason moves have been designed to win a few extra games this year to help Gruden keep his job, instead of building for the future. I think 7-9 is a reasonable estimate.

Vikes99ej
03-12-2007, 03:43 PM
I can't see the Bucs going through the same kind of improvement as the Saints did. The Bucs didn't sign Drew Brees and they aren't going to draft Reggie Bush.

1. Saints 11-5
2. Falcons 9-7
2. Panthers 9-7
4. Bucs 6-10

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 03:48 PM
The Bucs are not a good team, and the majority of the offseason moves have been designed to win a few extra games this year to help Gruden keep his job, instead of building for the future. I think 7-9 is a reasonable estimate.


I'm glad we finally have a Bucs fan in here who can take the homer goggles off and be reasonable. 7-9 is reasonable, but I wouldn't go any higher than that. 10-6 makes you a homer.

Mr. Stiller
03-12-2007, 03:49 PM
that would be stupid. having watched luke his whole career hes a solid LT. passing up on calvin would be a huge blunder. reese is stupid for cutting him. i dont care what any giant fan says. he would have restructured his contract for us. instead reese cuts him, now we have a LG as our LT.

Why is everyone assuming Calvin Johnson is going to fall to Tampa?

He could very well go to one of the 1st 3 teams.

As for Pettigout, There's obviously a reason he was cut.

Bradentonian
03-12-2007, 03:53 PM
I'm glad we finally have a Bucs fan in here who can take the homer goggles off and be reasonable. 7-9 is reasonable, but I wouldn't go any higher than that. 10-6 makes you a homer.

Sometimes the truth hurts. The NFCS has been a roller-coaster with worst-to-first being the norm, but I just can't see it for the Bucs this year.

Ewing
03-12-2007, 04:01 PM
Since the creation of the NFC South the team that finishes in last place wins the division the next year. Just letting you guys know that.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 04:06 PM
Since the creation of the NFC South the team that finishes in last place wins the division the next year. Just letting you guys know that.

You mean all 5 years?

Shiver
03-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Here is my break-down. I will do more for Atlanta, because of my familiarity.

New Orleans


Strength: Sean Payton's Offense
Weakness: Secondary
Wildcard: Reggie Bush's development


Comments: The prohibitive favorites. Which doesn't mean a lot in this division, seeing as how it's had different division champs since it's inception. The offense will still be a strength. Unless injuries hit, but that could be said about any team. If Reggie Bush can maintain his end of the season performance, he will be a dangerous weapon. McAllister is very underrated. Hopefully for them Colston doesn't become the next version of Michael Clayton, though.

Not sure the defense can hold up their end though. McKenzie is aging, Thomas is awful. I like their safeties, if Harper comes back from his injury. The front-7 is good, not great, not bad either. All that defense has to do is maintain mid-level performance to keep them at 'favorite' level.

Atlanta

Strength: Rushing Attack, Front-7
Weakness: Coverage Safeties, Left side of the O-Line
Wildcard: Michael Vick meshing with Petrino's offense


Comments: The draft is going to be the focal point of retooling the team. They've already moved into a more physical approach, in contrast to Jim Mora's more finesse style. The rushing attack was based on misdirection, false flow, and cut backs. The new one will focus more on smash mouth football. The O-Lineman that had to slim down for Gibbs' system, Kevin Shaffer for example put 20-lbs back on when he went to Cleveland. The coaches have stated that they will make sure they put on more bulk and strength, and move back into the style of system they were drafted into and originally started in. Current news has it that Quinn Ojinnaka could move to starting LG.

They have four glaring holes that need to be addressed. A FS/CB depending on how the coaching staff feels about Jimmy Williams, a LE that can step in rotation with Chauncey Davis, O-Lineman, a power RB to tandem with Jerious Norwood. Matt Schaub will be key, most think he will be dealt, that will allow the team to better address needs and depth in the draft. Fortunately for the team the need areas are deep in the draft, that is OG, DE, are deep.

Obviously what will command attention is how Michael Vick develops under Petrino. If they can coax '02-level production from him, the offense will be dynamite. That is, however, a unknown at this point. He will have more control, more weapons, better schematic fit. The onus is on him to return to the elite echelon and prove his lackluster production was a manifestation of the 'square peg in a round hole' theory.

Carolina


Strength: Corner trio, Julius Peppers and Steve Smith are all world
Weakness: Safety, Dan Morgan's health, O-Line
Wildcard: Jake Delhomme


Comments: This is a team I never count out. That said; this draft they have some work to do. The safeties really struggled in general. Dan Morgan is a crucial piece to that defense, and I don't trust he can stay on the field. Personally as a man, I wish he stepped away. Before he becomes a mental wreck like Ted Johnson or Wayne Chrebet. The O-Line still has some issues, they were not effective last year at opening holes for DeAngelo Williams.

That said, as long as you have the best Defensive player in football in my estimation, and one the NFL's biggest play-makers, they have a shot to win games. They had some bouts of bad luck that led to their missing out on the play-offs.

I do think Jake Delhomme is the wild card. He needs to maintain his composure better, limit his mistakes. I do think at some point on draft day, they will look towards the future. Will Delhomme step up with his future on the line, ala Drew Brees, or shrink like Jake Plummer did last year when the Broncos added Cutler?

Tampa Bay


Strength: Up and coming Offense manned by Jeff Garcia
Weakness: Defense, with the only good players on the precipice of retirement
Wildcard: Cadillac Williams' durability


Comments: I really like the offense. I think Garcia is a perfect fit for what Gruden wants. This was the much better move, as opposed to last year where they wrongfully put trust in Chris Simms. The O-Line will improve a lot, with Joseph, Trueblood adding experience, Petitgout being an upgrade.

The problem with this team is the defense. It's weak, and with Gruden making offense more of a priority, they haven't rebuilt like Monte Kiffin defenses of the past. They were below average across the board, and their former impact players have only aged.

The wild-card on this team is Carnell "Cadillac" Williams. His durability has always been a concern. In college, he never carried the load and had a few injuries. In his first two years in the NFL, he hasn't been healthy. All the O-Line and QB improvements won't help if Williams doesn't shoulder the load and dominate for 16 games.

Ewing
03-12-2007, 04:17 PM
You mean all 5 years?

Yes, all five years.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
03-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Yes, all five years.

Wow, well Tampa is definitely winning it this year.....

Eaglez.Fan
03-12-2007, 04:22 PM
1. Saints 12-4
2. Bucs 9-7
3. Falcons 6-10
4. Panthers 5-11

hugepunch
03-12-2007, 04:32 PM
Why is everyone assuming Calvin Johnson is going to fall to Tampa?

He could very well go to one of the 1st 3 teams.

As for Pettigout, There's obviously a reason he was cut.name 1 reason. considering our head coach was strongly against the cut. is david diehl
a better LT? not by a long shot.

etk
03-12-2007, 04:37 PM
This post was humorous to me. It's littered with optimism, and speculative assumptions. If I wanted to post two paragraphs as to why each player on the Falcons would have their 'best individual seasons ever,' and other conjecture about the team, I could do so easily. The post reached new levels of absurdity when you state your opinion that the Falcons "are a lock to finish last in our division." When all the facts led me to believe that the Saints were likewise going to struggle last year. I was wrong about that, and I admitted such. No team in the NFL is a "lock" for anything.

When have anyone's predictions ever come true? I just predict the Falcons to finish last, but I could easily be wrong, just like anyone else. Preseason predictions are the most overrated element of sportswriting, and I can't wait to see all the preseason magazines that say the Bucs will finish last and be 6-10 or something.

BlindSite
03-12-2007, 04:40 PM
The Panthers went 5-1 in the divison and had a top 10 defense despite injuries to linebacker, and all of our defensive backs at one time or another... The team also had two new starters at defensive tackle and 3 new starters at linebacker. That's 5 players in the front 7 and a mess of injuries. We still didn't fall out of the top ten for defense.

The offenses biggest problem was run blocking, Mike Wahle struggled with illness and injury and we lost both our starting centre and left tackle for the year in the first game of the season. Three key cogs to a very good line missing.

To cap things off Jake Delhomme missed some winnable games against Pittsburgh, and New York that Weinke stunk up leading to big losses. Because of his crappy play we missed the playoffs.

Panthers were 31st in starters missing games last year.

The team's healthy and is returning its true starters to the lineup with the exception of one very poor safety. We've got enough in cap space to fill that hole and enough draft picks to take our depth and get some luxury picks under our belt. We've got a very good new offensive coordinator and a coach who historically has hit the playoffs every year after a down year.

You think we'll have an 8-8 season you're in for a rude shock... 7th Ranked defense will get back an offense a year removed from 3 probowlers and a very good running back and receiving tandem.

Panthers 10-6
Saints 10-6
Falcons 8-8
Buccs - 6-10

etk
03-12-2007, 04:44 PM
Many of you have forgotten how easy schedules can contribute to the first-last factor, and I expect that to be the case with the Bucs again this year like in 05. Also, Chris Simms will be our opening-day starter, not Garcia. In his 3rd year in the league he led us to the playoffs and posted a 10-7 TD ratio, so I expect him to improve at the very least.

49ersfan_87
03-12-2007, 04:46 PM
I cant predict records, but i got panthers and saints fighting for the top. Falcons in third. Bucs last.

Shiver
03-12-2007, 04:49 PM
Also, Chris Simms will be our opening-day starter, not Garcia. In his 3rd year in the league he led us to the playoffs and posted a 10-7 TD ratio, so I expect him to improve at the very least.


I would be stunned if that happens, very happy too. I don't believe that for one moment. Trusting him last year was a disastrous affair for the team. Jeff Garcia is the perfect fit for Gruden's offense. I never saw what Bucs fans ever saw in Simms, let alone after the year he had last year, prior to his injury.

etk
03-12-2007, 05:04 PM
I would be stunned if that happens, very happy too. I don't believe that for one moment. Trusting him last year was a disastrous affair for the team. Jeff Garcia is the perfect fit for Gruden's offense. I never saw what Bucs fans ever saw in Simms, let alone after the year he had last year, prior to his injury.

You never saw him lead us to late victory over your team, twice???

Bradentonian
03-12-2007, 05:19 PM
I really like Simms, but I don't think he and Gruden will ever be on the same page. It would be nice if we could get some trade consideration for him as he has a very reasonable contract. I wouldn't mind going to camp with Garcia, McCown and Grads and "Round Mound" Eugene as the camp body/extra arm.

Shiver
03-12-2007, 05:20 PM
By "lead" you mean Cadillac dominating our defense, Roddy White and Warrick Dunn bumbling the games away? Then yes, Simms was crucial to the outcomes of both games. In reality, he didn't do jack in the first game. In the second one he did pretty good, but only after DeAngelo Hall got hurt. Fact of the matter is, we couldn't stop your rushing attack, Roddy White dropped a game clinching 40 yard TD, Warrick Dunn's helmet gave the Bucs game winning FG field position by colliding with the ball in Michael Vick's hand.

etk
03-12-2007, 05:20 PM
I would not like to have McCown or Gradkowski as the backup to an undersized aging QB......

Shiver
03-12-2007, 05:22 PM
I like Gradkowski more than I like Simms. Gradkowksi did admirably with pretty poor supporting cast help, he did much more than Simms did in his playing time.

Bradentonian
03-12-2007, 05:23 PM
I would not like to have McCown or Gradkowski as the backup to an undersized aging QB......

Gruden really likes McCown and the buzz last year before his injury was that he had a great chance to beat out Simms and start

eaglesalltheway
03-12-2007, 05:29 PM
1. Saints 11-5
2. Panthers 9-7
3. Falcons 9-7
4. Bucs 7-9

etk
03-12-2007, 05:32 PM
Gruden really likes McCown and the buzz last year before his injury was that he had a great chance to beat out Simms and start

The buzz last year was that Gradkowski was the saviour.......

BlindSite
03-12-2007, 10:57 PM
I like Gradkowski more than I like Simms. Gradkowksi did admirably with pretty poor supporting cast help, he did much more than Simms did in his playing time.

You can't honestly believe that...

Gradkowski doesn't have as strong an arm and he's never going to be a starter in the league. His mental processes while decent aren't up to the level of Simms. Look at what simms did against carolina before he got a busted spleen. He played out of his skin. Simms is a promising young QB, he just hasn't had the support from his offensive line and the bounce of the ball as far as luck goes with injuries. Simms is going to be a viable starter for years to come, next year will be the first of many, I bet the house on it.

etk
03-12-2007, 11:20 PM
If you gave Bruce 5 tries to hit a wide open Galloway deep down the field, he would miss all 5. That is why he cannot be our starting QB again.

KWill93
03-12-2007, 11:25 PM
Panthers 11-5
Saints 10-6
Falcons 7-9
Bucs 6-10

Shiver
03-12-2007, 11:27 PM
You can't honestly believe that...

Gradkowski doesn't have as strong an arm and he's never going to be a starter in the league. His mental processes while decent aren't up to the level of Simms. Look at what simms did against carolina before he got a busted spleen. He played out of his skin. Simms is a promising young QB, he just hasn't had the support from his offensive line and the bounce of the ball as far as luck goes with injuries. Simms is going to be a viable starter for years to come, next year will be the first of many, I bet the house on it.

I misrepresented my feelings, shoddy phrasing on my part. What I was attempting to get across was that Gradkowski clearly outplayed Simms in '06. I don't think you or Bucs fans are acknowledging just how poor Simms played last year. He was dreadful. He played alright in '05, nothing worth raving about, but solid. I doubt Simms sees the field unless Garcia gets hurt. If Simms were to actually beat out Garcia I would be stunned.

Caddy
03-12-2007, 11:33 PM
I misrepresented my feelings, shoddy phrasing on my part. What I was attempting to get across was that Gradkowski clearly outplayed Simms in '06. I don't think you or Bucs fans are acknowledging just how poor Simms played last year. He was dreadful. He played alright in '05, nothing worth raving about, but solid. I doubt Simms sees the field unless Garcia gets hurt. If Simms were to actually beat out Garcia I would be stunned.

As long as the competition between Simms and Garcia is a fair competition, I don't care who starts. As long as the best man wins.

etk
03-12-2007, 11:38 PM
I misrepresented my feelings, shoddy phrasing on my part. What I was attempting to get across was that Gradkowski clearly outplayed Simms in '06. I don't think you or Bucs fans are acknowledging just how poor Simms played last year. He was dreadful. He played alright in '05, nothing worth raving about, but solid. I doubt Simms sees the field unless Garcia gets hurt. If Simms were to actually beat out Garcia I would be stunned.

Tim Rattay outperformed all of them, but you are right, Simms was dreadful last year, but I think he will come back to form this year. Like BlindSite, I'll bet the house on it. I really respect Simms more than ever after last season, because he showed his warrior toughness against the Panthers when he had an injured spleen and kept playing even though he could hardly put together a sentence in the huddle. He proceeded to drive us down the field and throw a TD pass, the same day he got his spleen removed!! Other than that, he had 2 very bad games behind a woeful offensive line, especially because Kenyatta Walker was still the starter at RT back then. If Kenyatta was blocking Mike Vick's backside, he would have some awful games too, and he would feel the pressure pretty bad.

etk
03-12-2007, 11:38 PM
As long as the competition between Simms and Garcia is a fair competition, I don't care who starts. As long as the best man wins.

Well said, but I hope it's Simms because he's younger.

BlindSite
03-13-2007, 12:33 AM
I misrepresented my feelings, shoddy phrasing on my part. What I was attempting to get across was that Gradkowski clearly outplayed Simms in '06. I don't think you or Bucs fans are acknowledging just how poor Simms played last year. He was dreadful. He played alright in '05, nothing worth raving about, but solid. I doubt Simms sees the field unless Garcia gets hurt. If Simms were to actually beat out Garcia I would be stunned.

Against baltimore and atlanta yes he was pretty average, but that's two very good pass rushes coming his way. Against Carolina he was playing well, the stats don't show what he did on the field.

Shiver
03-13-2007, 12:55 AM
I guess if Simms can beat out Garcia, that will prove something to me. I doubt it will happen, but stranger things have.

D-Rod
03-13-2007, 12:35 PM
Simms will be back to his 05 form

Unfortunately, expressing it as certainty doesn't make it true.

Frankly, I'd put all the teams around level right now, maybe with the Bucs a little behind. All the teams have some great players, but also significant holes. I also think that a lot of the Saints players were playing above their ability last year, and that they may be exposed in 2007. The Panthers still have a great nucleus of players, but a few questions marks. The Falcons also have a huge amount of quality on paper, and could succeed if Petrino's new staff creates a condusive environment. The Bucs finally have a decent O-line, but their defence is falling apart.

I could see any of the four teams coming first, and any of the teams coming last. It should be an exciting year.