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View Full Version : Is it me or is this QB class not real strong at the top


dansaint
12-24-2009, 12:35 AM
But kinda deep in the middle of the pack.

I'm not 100% sold on Clausen or Bradford for different reasons.

1...I wonder if Clausen has the arm strength and decision making abilities to be a top of the draft QB. I think he'll be a good QB...but I just can't see myself spending the money at the top of the draft to take him.

As for Bradford...I guess the same issues arise not to mention the injury concern

The next two years have some major question marks at QB. in 2011 you have Locker and Snead as the top QB's and they aren't QB's you think of as "Franchise" guys.

StorminNorman
12-24-2009, 12:42 AM
This is why I always laughed at people last year bemoaning the "weak" QB draft class. Stafford would have been the first QB off the board if he came out this year and likely would have been drafted before Matt Ryan if he (assuming he was a junior that year) came out in 2008.

holt_bruce81
12-24-2009, 12:48 AM
I'd say Locker and Mallett are the top 2 for next year. I'm not sold on Clausen either, decision making, leadership, maturity, are things he needs to work on.

Bradford's injury does scare me a bit but he's really the only Quarterback in the draft that I see as a for sure successful starting NFL Quarterback in the future. Tony Pike would be 2nd on my list.

dansaint
12-24-2009, 12:49 AM
I mean...I do believe that Clausen and Bradford will be good QB's...but to me nothing really screams out "star" with these guys.

With Stafford last year...he had the big arm and decent size in the pocket...so i understood the hype around him...but Bradford has the injury concern. That's the one thing that concerns me. And for Clausen...I just wonder if he has the arm strength. Plus at time the last few years he seemed for force passes and got bailed out by Tate.

If I'm the Rams...I would really have to consider going with Suh and seeing if you can get another QB later in the draft that makes sense financially. Unless Bradford just lights it up at the combine

A guy who I think is gonna be a sleeper in this class is LeFeveour (sp?) from Central Michigan. Good size, good arm, and can move in the pocket. 3rd or 4th round value.

Thumper
12-24-2009, 01:04 AM
IDK what you're talking about in 2011, that class is stacked. Jacory Harris might not have the ideal build but we've seen him run a pro-style offense with poise, he is accurate and he has a strong arm. He makes the reads necessary in the NFL, he has a good feel for the pocket and is super clutch. Robert Griffin III is the most electric QB since Vick and is the best mobile QB prospect since VY except Griffin is arguably better. Christian Ponder is like Drew Brees, he can read a defense, can throw the ball accurately and he is extremely intelligent and he can throw some gems on the field. Jevan Snead while inconsistent and mistake prone is a good prospect, especially if he can improve in 2010 because he has the arm strength and mobility to be very good and he can throw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see on occasion. Ryan Mallett is a little bit like Snead, Mallet is the ideal QB physically, he is tall and has a ROCKET arm and he will throw some of the best balls you will ever see at least a couple times a game, but then he'll follow that up by overthrowing a guy or throwing it so hard the guy can't catch it, granted he has little help but still. Then there is Jerrod Johnson who is extremely gifted, strong arm, is tall, strong frame and he can run in many ways he might remind some of Dante Cullpepper, and he is better mentally than Jamarcus Russell.

Then there are some other guys like Nick Foles, Blaine Gabbert, Terelle Pryor and Dayne Crist.

2011 will be sick.

2010 is alright, if Bradford heals up correctly and learns an NFL offense than he can be really good because mentally Bradford is great. Clausen IMO is the ideal NFL QB with his mix of skills. He has learned from a head coach who has won 3 super bowls as an offensive coordinator. Clausen plays in a pro-style offense, the same style of offense that led Tom Brady to three super bowl titles. He has the size of an NFL QB at 6’3” and nearly 230 pounds. Clausen possesses more than adequate arm strength and accuracy. His mechanics are flawless, which will help speed the transition to the NFL because he won’t have to worry about fundamentals, instead he can focus on learning the offense. Clausen also plays in a pro-style offense, which means that he makes reads, he goes through the progressions, takes more snaps from center and he has better footwork than his peers from the spread offense. He obviously has a good feel for the pocket, he is side stepping pressure, stepping up in the pocket and putting himself in position to make better throws instead of being stationary in the pocket, which will help a rookie QB greatly especially considering he will likely be facing a lot of pressure if drafted highly. Clausen has a better arm than McCoy and is more accurate than Snead and he can move in the pocket, his mechanics are nice (better than Tebow's and Snead's) and more importantly he plays in a Pro-Style offense unlike Tebow and McCoy. And, in addition he has proven he has ice in his veins, he led the Irish on a comeback against Michigan, but the defense blew it. He led a comeback victory against Purdue and he led an overtime win against Washington. He has proven he is cool, calm and collected in crunch time and that he has the respect of his teammates and a clear grasp on the offense. Clausen is the total package, physically and mentally.

StorminNorman
12-24-2009, 01:15 AM
IDK what you're talking about in 2011, that class is stacked. Jacory Harris might not have the ideal build but we've seen him run a pro-style offense with poise, he is accurate and he has a strong arm. He makes the reads necessary in the NFL, he has a good feel for the pocket and is super clutch. Robert Griffin III is the most electric QB since Vick and is the best mobile QB prospect since VY except Griffin is arguably better. Christian Ponder is like Drew Brees, he can read a defense, can throw the ball accurately and he is extremely intelligent and he can throw some gems on the field. Jevan Snead while inconsistent and mistake prone is a good prospect, especially if he can improve in 2010 because he has the arm strength and mobility to be very good and he can throw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see on occasion. Ryan Mallett is a little bit like Snead, Mallet is the ideal QB physically, he is tall and has a ROCKET arm and he will throw some of the best balls you will ever see at least a couple times a game, but then he'll follow that up by overthrowing a guy or throwing it so hard the guy can't catch it, granted he has little help but still. Then there is Jerrod Johnson who is extremely gifted, strong arm, is tall, strong frame and he can run in many ways he might remind some of Dante Cullpepper, and he is better mentally than Jamarcus Russell.

Then there are some other guys like Nick Foles, Blaine Gabbert, Terelle Pryor and Dayne Crist.

2011 will be sick.

2010 is alright, if Bradford heals up correctly and learns an NFL offense than he can be really good because mentally Bradford is great. Clausen IMO is the ideal NFL QB with his mix of skills. He has learned from a head coach who has won 3 super bowls as an offensive coordinator. Clausen plays in a pro-style offense, the same style of offense that led Tom Brady to three super bowl titles. He has the size of an NFL QB at 6’3” and nearly 230 pounds. Clausen possesses more than adequate arm strength and accuracy. His mechanics are flawless, which will help speed the transition to the NFL because he won’t have to worry about fundamentals, instead he can focus on learning the offense. Clausen also plays in a pro-style offense, which means that he makes reads, he goes through the progressions, takes more snaps from center and he has better footwork than his peers from the spread offense. He obviously has a good feel for the pocket, he is side stepping pressure, stepping up in the pocket and putting himself in position to make better throws instead of being stationary in the pocket, which will help a rookie QB greatly especially considering he will likely be facing a lot of pressure if drafted highly. Clausen has a better arm than McCoy and is more accurate than Snead and he can move in the pocket, his mechanics are nice (better than Tebow's and Snead's) and more importantly he plays in a Pro-Style offense unlike Tebow and McCoy. And, in addition he has proven he has ice in his veins, he led the Irish on a comeback against Michigan, but the defense blew it. He led a comeback victory against Purdue and he led an overtime win against Washington. He has proven he is cool, calm and collected in crunch time and that he has the respect of his teammates and a clear grasp on the offense. Clausen is the total package, physically and mentally.

Did you know Jimmy Clausen comes from a Pro Style offense?

dansaint
12-24-2009, 01:19 AM
IDK what you're talking about in 2011, that class is stacked. Jacory Harris might not have the ideal build but we've seen him run a pro-style offense with poise, he is accurate and he has a strong arm. He makes the reads necessary in the NFL, he has a good feel for the pocket and is super clutch. Robert Griffin III is the most electric QB since Vick and is the best mobile QB prospect since VY except Griffin is arguably better. Christian Ponder is like Drew Brees, he can read a defense, can throw the ball accurately and he is extremely intelligent and he can throw some gems on the field. Jevan Snead while inconsistent and mistake prone is a good prospect, especially if he can improve in 2010 because he has the arm strength and mobility to be very good and he can throw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see on occasion. Ryan Mallett is a little bit like Snead, Mallet is the ideal QB physically, he is tall and has a ROCKET arm and he will throw some of the best balls you will ever see at least a couple times a game, but then he'll follow that up by overthrowing a guy or throwing it so hard the guy can't catch it, granted he has little help but still. Then there is Jerrod Johnson who is extremely gifted, strong arm, is tall, strong frame and he can run in many ways he might remind some of Dante Cullpepper, and he is better mentally than Jamarcus Russell.

Then there are some other guys like Nick Foles, Blaine Gabbert, Terelle Pryor and Dayne Crist.

2011 will be sick.

2010 is alright, if Bradford heals up correctly and learns an NFL offense than he can be really good because mentally Bradford is great. Clausen IMO is the ideal NFL QB with his mix of skills. He has learned from a head coach who has won 3 super bowls as an offensive coordinator. Clausen plays in a pro-style offense, the same style of offense that led Tom Brady to three super bowl titles. He has the size of an NFL QB at 6’3” and nearly 230 pounds. Clausen possesses more than adequate arm strength and accuracy. His mechanics are flawless, which will help speed the transition to the NFL because he won’t have to worry about fundamentals, instead he can focus on learning the offense. Clausen also plays in a pro-style offense, which means that he makes reads, he goes through the progressions, takes more snaps from center and he has better footwork than his peers from the spread offense. He obviously has a good feel for the pocket, he is side stepping pressure, stepping up in the pocket and putting himself in position to make better throws instead of being stationary in the pocket, which will help a rookie QB greatly especially considering he will likely be facing a lot of pressure if drafted highly. Clausen has a better arm than McCoy and is more accurate than Snead and he can move in the pocket, his mechanics are nice (better than Tebow's and Snead's) and more importantly he plays in a Pro-Style offense unlike Tebow and McCoy. And, in addition he has proven he has ice in his veins, he led the Irish on a comeback against Michigan, but the defense blew it. He led a comeback victory against Purdue and he led an overtime win against Washington. He has proven he is cool, calm and collected in crunch time and that he has the respect of his teammates and a clear grasp on the offense. Clausen is the total package, physically and mentally.

Good insight. I am leery of the thin build QB's like Harris because you wonder if they can hold up day in and day out under center. And with Griffin...maybe this is just me...but I'm kind of scared of the real mobile QB's because they tend to think they can just run for the 1st down instead of reading the routes.

You tend to really know the Southern QB scene a whole lot better than I do so i'll bow to your knowledge there my friend!

Thumper
12-24-2009, 01:24 AM
Did you know Jimmy Clausen comes from a Pro Style offense?

I think I mentioned that a few times lol.

Babylon
12-24-2009, 11:50 AM
IDK what you're talking about in 2011, that class is stacked. Jacory Harris might not have the ideal build but we've seen him run a pro-style offense with poise, he is accurate and he has a strong arm. He makes the reads necessary in the NFL, he has a good feel for the pocket and is super clutch. Robert Griffin III is the most electric QB since Vick and is the best mobile QB prospect since VY except Griffin is arguably better. Christian Ponder is like Drew Brees, he can read a defense, can throw the ball accurately and he is extremely intelligent and he can throw some gems on the field. Jevan Snead while inconsistent and mistake prone is a good prospect, especially if he can improve in 2010 because he has the arm strength and mobility to be very good and he can throw some of the prettiest deep balls you'll ever see on occasion. Ryan Mallett is a little bit like Snead, Mallet is the ideal QB physically, he is tall and has a ROCKET arm and he will throw some of the best balls you will ever see at least a couple times a game, but then he'll follow that up by overthrowing a guy or throwing it so hard the guy can't catch it, granted he has little help but still. Then there is Jerrod Johnson who is extremely gifted, strong arm, is tall, strong frame and he can run in many ways he might remind some of Dante Cullpepper, and he is better mentally than Jamarcus Russell.

Then there are some other guys like Nick Foles, Blaine Gabbert, Terelle Pryor and Dayne Crist.

2011 will be sick.

2010 is alright, if Bradford heals up correctly and learns an NFL offense than he can be really good because mentally Bradford is great. Clausen IMO is the ideal NFL QB with his mix of skills. He has learned from a head coach who has won 3 super bowls as an offensive coordinator. Clausen plays in a pro-style offense, the same style of offense that led Tom Brady to three super bowl titles. He has the size of an NFL QB at 6’3” and nearly 230 pounds. Clausen possesses more than adequate arm strength and accuracy. His mechanics are flawless, which will help speed the transition to the NFL because he won’t have to worry about fundamentals, instead he can focus on learning the offense. Clausen also plays in a pro-style offense, which means that he makes reads, he goes through the progressions, takes more snaps from center and he has better footwork than his peers from the spread offense. He obviously has a good feel for the pocket, he is side stepping pressure, stepping up in the pocket and putting himself in position to make better throws instead of being stationary in the pocket, which will help a rookie QB greatly especially considering he will likely be facing a lot of pressure if drafted highly. Clausen has a better arm than McCoy and is more accurate than Snead and he can move in the pocket, his mechanics are nice (better than Tebow's and Snead's) and more importantly he plays in a Pro-Style offense unlike Tebow and McCoy. And, in addition he has proven he has ice in his veins, he led the Irish on a comeback against Michigan, but the defense blew it. He led a comeback victory against Purdue and he led an overtime win against Washington. He has proven he is cool, calm and collected in crunch time and that he has the respect of his teammates and a clear grasp on the offense. Clausen is the total package, physically and mentally.

Guy you might want to keep an eye on for the 2011 draft is Jake Locker from the U of Wash. Check him out.

wonderbredd24
12-24-2009, 11:53 AM
Personally, I think the 2010 QB class is weak from top to bottom

SuperKevin
12-24-2009, 12:41 PM
Personally, I think the 2010 QB class is weak from top to bottom

I was about to say

or the middle....or the bottom

dabears10
12-24-2009, 12:50 PM
I'd say Locker and Mallett are the top 2 for next year. I'm not sold on Clausen either, decision making, leadership, maturity, are things he needs to work on.

You keep saying that you question Clausen's leadership, except that his team raves about him. That seems like a leader to me.

Also, what decision making issues do you see with Clausen? He throws away the ball more than most college quarterbacks and only threw 4 interceptions. Seems like for the most part he made good decisions.

Maturity is a very understandable critique because of the way he came into college as he came in as a cocky and brazen human being. It seems like he has toned it down and has a great work ethic. The best example is flying out Golden Tate and Michael Floyd to California with him to work everyday on routes and timing. Another critique that I think does not get brought up enough is that you would have to deal with the Clausen family. They are far more an issue than Jimmy himself. Also, I think that he doesn't always have the best ball placement on the short throws are to a place that gets the receiver out of stride.

Babylon
12-24-2009, 01:00 PM
You keep saying that you question Clausen's leadership, except that his team raves about him. That seems like a leader to me.

Also, what decision making issues do you see with Clausen? He throws away the ball more than most college quarterbacks and only threw 4 interceptions. Seems like for the most part he made good decisions.

Maturity is a very understandable critique because of the way he came into college as he came in as a cocky and brazen human being. It seems like he has toned it down and has a great work ethic. The best example is flying out Golden Tate and Michael Floyd to California with him to work everyday on routes and timing. Another critique that I think does not get brought up enough is that you would have to deal with the Clausen family. They are far more an issue than Jimmy himself. Also, I think that he doesn't always have the best ball placement on the short throws are to a place that gets the receiver out of stride.

Not to speak for Holt Bruce but he's probably thinking Jimmy in terms of the top pick, i wouldnt take him there. He should be gone within the top half dozen picks though.

broncofan7
12-24-2009, 01:43 PM
The main question I have on Clausen is that is he a one hit wonder? At the beginning of the year he was considered a 2 or 3rd round pick.

keylime_5
12-24-2009, 01:54 PM
this QB class is poo. No Jake Locker and probably no Ryan Mallett makes it super poo. Bradford has a pretty good ceiling, but he has a lot of big big risk factors right now from the arm to the injury to the college offense to the durability/toughness.

Thumper
12-24-2009, 01:56 PM
Guy you might want to keep an eye on for the 2011 draft is Jake Locker from the U of Wash. Check him out.

I pretty much assumed that everyone would include him in that bunch.

SickwithIt1010
12-24-2009, 02:05 PM
Jimmy has all the tools in the world, but the kid crumbles when something doesnt go his way. You never see the guy stop whining, and NFL players are going to make him their *****.

Flyboy
12-24-2009, 02:06 PM
This draft needs some Jake Locker & Ryan Mallett lovin's. I will say I am higher on Colt McCoy than most.

eagles6606
12-24-2009, 02:23 PM
It is not just you, this draft is not a very good QB class. The top 2 guys (Bradford and Clausen) both have positives, but some big question marks as well. Bradford has good size, production, is very accurate, and has amazing intangibles. However he played in a spread offense, which greatly inflated his numbers. Also he never was really forced to throw under pressure at Oklahoma. Most of his throws were from a clean pocket. The National Championship Game against Florida exposed him a little. He was forced to throw under presure and it hurt his play. Of course his biggest question is durability. Can he stay healthy?
Clausen has adaquete size, arm strenghth, and accuracy. He played in a pro style offense and had to handle the pressure of being Notre Dame's QB. He is an overall solid prospect, but not one that jumps off the page. He doesn't excel in one particular category, including his intangibles which are questionable. Also he frequently just through balls up for grabs downfield and hoped his recieves came down with it. Clausen is a solid, but not great prospect.
The big quesiton for NFL is are these two worth a top 5 selection? Bradford has lot of question marks and Clausen doesn't project to be more than a good NFL QB. Is it worth it to risk your franchise on the success of one of these two QBs. I suppose only time will tell.

FUNBUNCHER
12-24-2009, 02:26 PM
I don't know if I read it on this board or not, but I have heard the comparison made that Clausen is very similar to Aaron Rodgers as a prospect.

My team needs a QB and will pick in the top 10. Clausen doesn't make go crazy over him, but if I felt had the potential to develop into Aaron Rodgers, (an efficient, accurate, dynamic QB who has all the necessary tools), I'd have no problem drafting him high in the 1st round.

Honestly, if Clausen didn't play for Notre Dame and put up the numbers he did last season, I'd probably be more impressed.

I like Bradford a little bit more, even though he hasn't played in a pro style offense before.

JFLO
12-24-2009, 02:34 PM
I don't know if I read it on this board or not, but I have heard the comparison made that Clausen is very similar to Aaron Rodgers as a prospect.

My team needs a QB and will pick in the top 10. Clausen doesn't make go crazy over him, but if I felt had the potential to develop into Aaron Rodgers, (an efficient, accurate, dynamic QB who has all the necessary tools), I'd have no problem drafting him high in the 1st round.

Honestly, if Clausen didn't play for Notre Dame and put up the numbers he did last season, I'd probably be more impressed.

I like Bradford a little bit more, even though he hasn't played in a pro style offense before.

I'm sort of split down the middle with Clausen and Bradford.

I can't stand Clausen's attitude throughout the game. It is somewhat "leadership-esque" but at the same time, comes off as arrogant and childish.

The obvious problem, like you mentioned, is Bradford's learning curve. It shouldn't slow him down too much, but he will need more work than Clausen, especially considering what kind of offensive line he'll be playing behind.



In regards to the 2011 class, I'm not sold on any player besides Locker at this point, whether or not Mallet declares, although he is the second best quarterback should he stay.

I don't believe in Jacory Harris' "poise" just yet, not to mention the fact that the majority of eighth graders around the world weigh more than he does.

Christan Ponder is a very intriguing prospect. Depending on how he does under his first season under Jimbo Fisher, he could either be a 1st round pick or a 4th/5th round selection.

Other players that need to prove more include, Jerrod Johnson, Colin Kaepernick, Pat Devlin, Griffen and Pryor.

hockey619
12-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Everyone keeps saying that Clausen has good tools across the board but none that standout. Similar things were said about Matt Ryan and way back in 98 for Peyton. People questioned boths upside and arm the way they are questioning Jimmy now. He has great accuracy and a solid to pretty good arm, he can put zip and touch on his passes and puts the ball on the money almost every time.

His most amazing quality is his composure though. Ive seen a lot of Clausen since his first game at ND and even then he was very calm and in control in the pocket, despite the terrible team around him and the hits he took. He has that swagger that just makes you think he'll be great at the next level.

My biggest worry is if his talent at reciever might have stunted his growth. They were all way better than the guys covering them, so all Clausen had to do was throw it up there and let them get it. These balls were usually placed very well (especially the fades in the endzone) but it scares me that he might have become to reliant on this and when its not as easy at the next level he might struggle.

Honestly, i see very few weaknesses in him as a prospect overall and his ability late in games and his ability under pressure is really special. Does he come across as a bit of an arrogant dbag? yeah, and early on it was extremely annoying and i rooted like hell against him. But he was humbled a little his freshman year i think with the whooping he took behind that line and he became a better player because of it.

eagles6606
12-24-2009, 02:45 PM
I don't think Clausen and Ryan compare very well as prospects. Ryan had much better intangibles and had to compete with far less talent, especially at reciever, than Clausen.

Saints-Tigers
12-24-2009, 04:16 PM
Bradford needs a lot of work and doesn't have the upside to justify that much commitment IMO. I don't see star potential in him at all, and it's not like he's a guy that can come right in and be solid. You're drafting a project that you have to work with to make him solid? I'll pass.

This QB class is strong in second round type QBs, sadly, a few of them are going to go in round one, like BRadford/Tebow/McCoy.

I do like Clausen though.

FUNBUNCHER
12-24-2009, 04:43 PM
Is Eagles backup Kevin Kolb a better QB prospect than Sam Bradford??

Both came out of spread offenses in college, Kolb IMO is ready to start right now for some team and could be trade bait in the near future.

Spread QB = WCO QB ( in theory).

Bradford, Clausen and McCoy will all be 1st rounders. Personally I really like McCoy and see a lot of Jeff Garcia in him.

Still I'd take Bradford first out of this group.

wicket
12-24-2009, 04:45 PM
Fun thing: Every time people are saying that the following QB class is going to be awesome only to have that hope gradually decreasing over the year and somehow everybody is down on qb's right before the draft.

I think its overanalyzing. Since there is so much clear video available for QB's people everywhere can judge them for months. Not so much on most other positions

JFLO
12-24-2009, 05:22 PM
Is Eagles backup Kevin Kolb a better QB prospect than Sam Bradford??

Both came out of spread offenses in college, Kolb IMO is ready to start right now for some team and could be trade bait in the near future.

Spread QB = WCO QB ( in theory).

Bradford, Clausen and McCoy will all be 1st rounders. Personally I really like McCoy and see a lot of Jeff Garcia in him.

Still I'd take Bradford first out of this group.

I'm not really sure McCoy is a first rounder at this point, even with Locker deciding to return to Washington for his senior season.

Clausen and Bradford are two definite first round picks, while I wouldn't be surprised to see either Jacksonville select Tim Tebow with their pick or to just trade up in the late first round to pick him up.

Especially considering the possibility that Mallet might declare now that Locker is finished, McCoy's possibilities as a first round are kind of slimmer.

Also, some of this will depend on how McCoy and/or Tebow performs at the Senior Bowl/Combine. Two of the most glorified quarterbacks in NCAA history gone from the collegiate level, with bleak starting futures at the next level.

jCut
12-24-2009, 05:39 PM
Jimmy Clausen is money, in my opinion. And I despise Notre Dame. He reminds me of Matt Ryan.

Thumper
12-24-2009, 05:42 PM
Is Eagles backup Kevin Kolb a better QB prospect than Sam Bradford??

Both came out of spread offenses in college, Kolb IMO is ready to start right now for some team and could be trade bait in the near future.

Spread QB = WCO QB ( in theory).

Bradford, Clausen and McCoy will all be 1st rounders. Personally I really like McCoy and see a lot of Jeff Garcia in him.

Still I'd take Bradford first out of this group.

I guarantee that Kolb is not for sale because McNabb is gone after 2011 when his contract ends and Kolb is the future, the Eagles have had that planned ever since they drafted him.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-24-2009, 06:04 PM
I guarantee that Kolb is not for sale because McNabb is gone after 2011 when his contract ends and Kolb is the future, the Eagles have had that planned ever since they drafted him.

As long as Andy Reid is there I can't see him ever being traded.

RaiderNation
12-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Clausen and Bradford arnt top 5 prospects but will likely be picked there. I have them both in the 7-15 range as prospects

RealityCheck
12-26-2009, 12:24 PM
This year's class is great, but next year's will be the best of all. Imagine: Locker, Snead, Moore, Keenum, Pryor and Dalton.

Iamcanadian
12-26-2009, 02:37 PM
Practically ever year, the gurus on this and other sites take the time to tell us that this year's crop of QB's is useless and has no chance for success and every year 1 or 2 QB's go quite high and for the most part are successful in the NFL.
It is extremely hard to judge QB's since so much of their success depends on their mental makeup and last I looked nobody on this or other sites has access to these guys, yet they feel very secure in predicting their failure.
If I'd look up every post on QB's posted on this site, I'd probably only find a handful of posters who haven't been miles off on all their QB predictions.
I can remember all the criticism about Rivers' mechanics, Eli, only going #1 because he was Peyton's brother, Vince Young would never adjust to the NFL and be a productive QB(I'll bet only a handful of posters didn't write him off after last year), Most people thought Ryan wasn't worth a top 5 pick, and most questioned the Flacco pick. Then last year few were sold on Stafford or Sanchez, in fact most said they wouldn't touch Sanchez in round 1, and now we are to accept that this year's crop is weak. It seems to be every critics time to be a genius by predicting their failure. Well I for one wouldn't write this class off too fast, I'll wait till the post season is finished and all the facts are in before I write them off. I'm surely going to wait to see the results of their workouts and what the people on NFL Network have to say about them before I get carried away with ridiculous assertions.

Geason Noceur
12-26-2009, 08:22 PM
Is not just you. Many people, including me, think this QB crop is average at best from top to bottom. I think they're all a bunch of average joes, and some are going to get overdrafted by some desperate, QB-hungry team. In my opinion, not a single QB stands out. They're all either from the spread, put up inflated stats, have bad mechanics, have thin builds, have never taken a snap from under center, have questionable leadership abilities, are injury prone, don't have great measurables, etc. Just a bunch of Bleh! qbs.

BeerBaron
12-26-2009, 09:07 PM
Clausen and Bradford arnt top 5 prospects but will likely be picked there. I have them both in the 7-15 range as prospects

But you have to account for the fact that QBs get pushed up draft boards because of how valuable the position is. Look at the top Superbowl contenders this year, they have QBs like Manning, Brees, Favre, McNabb, Brady, Palmer, Rivers......All franchise caliber QBs and/or future HoFers.

Truth is, 9/10...or maybe even 19/20, the team who wins the SB is going to have, at the very least, an above average QB.

So the lesson is, that if you hope to be a SB contending team, you pretty typically need to locate a guy who can be your franchise QB. So even though they might only be the 7th or 15th or whatever best player in the draft, they'll get pushed up a good deal higher because of the value placed on the position.

Is not just you. Many people, including me, think this QB crop is average at best from top to bottom. I think they're all a bunch of average joes, and some are going to get overdrafted by some desperate, QB-hungry team. In my opinion, not a single QB stands out. They're all either from the spread, put up inflated stats, have bad mechanics, have thin builds, have never taken a snap from under center, have questionable leadership abilities, are injury prone, don't have great measurables, etc. Just a bunch of Bleh! qbs.

Ever hear of Jimmy Clausen? Pro style offense, decent mechanics, solid build, takes snaps from under center, touted by his teammates for leadership abilities, measureables are at least average across the board......no? Hmm.......

SickwithIt1010
12-26-2009, 09:32 PM
This year's class is great, but next year's will be the best of all. Imagine: Locker, Snead, Moore, Keenum, Pryor and Dalton.

I hope to god that the Moore you are talking about is not Kellen, im a huge Boise State fan being from idaho....but Kellen Moore brings nothing to the NFL. Hes 6 foot nothin with a noodle arm. He has great accuracy and thats about all hes got.

Pryor better start running routes because he would make a much bigger impact playing receiver than he would QB.

I do believe Keenum can have a successful career though.

keylime_5
12-26-2009, 09:39 PM
Pryor at this point projects as a receiver in the NFL. Hines Ward, Antwan Randle El, Joshua Cribbs, Pat White, Matt Jones, Ronald Curry, etc. were all QBs too, but not one of those guys had TP's athleticism. Should be interesting. His college stats through his freshman and sophomore years in college are actually slightly better than Vince Young's were right before his Rose Bowl start against Michigan on 1/1/05....and Vince Young is a starting QB not a WR in the league.

SickwithIt1010
12-26-2009, 09:42 PM
Pryor at this point projects as a receiver in the NFL. Hines Ward, Antwan Randle El, Joshua Cribbs, Pat White, Matt Jones, Ronald Curry, etc. were all QBs too, but not one of those guys had TP's athleticism. Should be interesting. His college stats through his freshman and sophomore years in college are actually slightly better than Vince Young's were right before his Rose Bowl start against Michigan on 1/1/05....and Vince Young is a starting QB not a WR in the league.

If he has anything close to the year that VY had his junior year i would be very very surprised.

holt_bruce81
12-26-2009, 09:44 PM
This year's class is great, but next year's will be the best of all. Imagine: Locker, Snead, Moore, Keenum, Pryor and Dalton.

Didn't even mention the best one! Shame on you sir.

SickwithIt1010
12-26-2009, 09:45 PM
Didn't even mention the best one! Shame on you sir.

Mallett???

holt_bruce81
12-26-2009, 09:46 PM
Mallett???

Of course.

SickwithIt1010
12-26-2009, 09:49 PM
Of course.

Yessir, between Locker and Mallett the top of the QB class should be looking good.

Bengalsrocket
12-26-2009, 09:51 PM
Practically ever year, the gurus on this and other sites take the time to tell us that this year's crop of QB's is useless and has no chance for success and every year 1 or 2 QB's go quite high and for the most part are successful in the NFL.
It is extremely hard to judge QB's since so much of their success depends on their mental makeup and last I looked nobody on this or other sites has access to these guys, yet they feel very secure in predicting their failure.
If I'd look up every post on QB's posted on this site, I'd probably only find a handful of posters who haven't been miles off on all their QB predictions.
I can remember all the criticism about Rivers' mechanics, Eli, only going #1 because he was Peyton's brother, Vince Young would never adjust to the NFL and be a productive QB(I'll bet only a handful of posters didn't write him off after last year), Most people thought Ryan wasn't worth a top 5 pick, and most questioned the Flacco pick. Then last year few were sold on Stafford or Sanchez, in fact most said they wouldn't touch Sanchez in round 1, and now we are to accept that this year's crop is weak. It seems to be every critics time to be a genius by predicting their failure. Well I for one wouldn't write this class off too fast, I'll wait till the post season is finished and all the facts are in before I write them off. I'm surely going to wait to see the results of their workouts and what the people on NFL Network have to say about them before I get carried away with ridiculous assertions.

Well if the draft was predictable this site wouldn't exist. People being able to announce their opinion on each prospect is what makes the draft so great. While a lot of us on these forums may get our predictions wrong, that doesn't mean we shouldn't post them.

Also, Stafford and Sanchez haven't really proven anything yet. I was a huge Sanchez fan coming out of college and I don't think he's done anything special.

The lions still suck, and if Stafford wasn't mic'd up against the Browns people would still think he's failing.

The Jets are an average team and Sanchez isn't really holding them up. If anything I'd say he's holding them back. I still like Sanchez but I don't think it's fair to write him off as the future of the team already.

Both QBs have thrown 20 INTs and are averaging 53% completions.

Stafford has 13 TDs and a 61.0 passer rating while averaging 6.0 yards per a completion.

Sanchez has 12 TDs and a 62.3 passer rating while averaging 6.9 yards per a completion.

For comparison:

Flacco had 14 TDs, 12 INTs and a 80.3 passer rating.

Ryan had 16 TDs, 11 INTs and a 87.7 passer rating.

I'm not saying that Stafford and Sanchez are trash or anything, but lets wait a few years before we crown them the future of their teams / this league. Both have a long way to go before either can be named franchise QBs and they're off to a worse start than their predecessors as the first two QBs of a draft class.

holt_bruce81
12-26-2009, 09:52 PM
Yessir, between Locker and Mallett the top of the QB class should be looking good.

Yep and call me a homer if you want lol, but Blaine Gabbert is going to be a top Quarterback prospect whenever he decides to leave, though I don't see him leaving early. Size, arm strength, Athletic Ability, leadership...

SickwithIt1010
12-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Yep and call me a homer if you want lol, but Blaine Gabbert is going to be a top Quarterback prospect whenever he decides to leave, though I don't see him leaving early. Size, arm strength, Athletic Ability, leadership...

Yeah i havent been able to see him play this year, i have heard that he has all the makings of being a stud though.

Brent
12-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Didn't even mention the best one! Shame on you sir.
Jerrod Johnson? Because he makes me giddy like a school girl.

holt_bruce81
12-26-2009, 10:37 PM
Jerrod Johnson? Because he makes me giddy like a school girl.

Him too! He's going to be a stud. I've only seen him play a few times but he looks very impressive. I think he's playing Mizzou next year, So I'm sure I'll watch him extra carefully that game!

Dirt McGirt
12-27-2009, 01:09 AM
I don't think Clausen and Ryan compare very well as prospects. Ryan had much better intangibles and had to compete with far less talent, especially at reciever, than Clausen.

Sorry to nitpick, but to say Ryan had more intanglibles is a bit of an oxymoron.

Iamcanadian
12-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Well if the draft was predictable this site wouldn't exist. People being able to announce their opinion on each prospect is what makes the draft so great. While a lot of us on these forums may get our predictions wrong, that doesn't mean we shouldn't post them.

Stating an opinion is one thing, saying none of these QB's have any talent and will all absolutely fail is a bit absurd. I don't mind if someone on this board breaks down a prospects strengths and weaknesses and criticizes them for some faults but generalizations about prospects makes me a bit touchy since most of it is total junk.

Also, Stafford and Sanchez haven't really proven anything yet. I was a huge Sanchez fan coming out of college and I don't think he's done anything special.

The lions still suck, and if Stafford wasn't mic'd up against the Browns people would still think he's failing.

The Jets are an average team and Sanchez isn't really holding them up. If anything I'd say he's holding them back. I still like Sanchez but I don't think it's fair to write him off as the future of the team already.

Both QBs have thrown 20 INTs and are averaging 53% completions.

Stafford has 13 TDs and a 61.0 passer rating while averaging 6.0 yards per a completion.

Sanchez has 12 TDs and a 62.3 passer rating while averaging 6.9 yards per a completion.

For comparison:

Flacco had 14 TDs, 12 INTs and a 80.3 passer rating.

Ryan had 16 TDs, 11 INTs and a 87.7 passer rating.

How about comparing them to Peyton Manning's first season as you do realize that Ryan and Facco, were very exceptional to the general rules for 1st year starters at QB.

Manning 28 interceptions, 56.7% completion record, passer rating of 71.2

I'm not saying that Stafford and Sanchez are trash or anything, but lets wait a few years before we crown them the future of their teams / this league. Both have a long way to go before either can be named franchise QBs and they're off to a worse start than their predecessors as the first two QBs of a draft class.

As Manning's stats indicate, rookie QB's no matter how great they may become often have serious trouble with interceptions, completion average and passing ratings. It isn't all that unusual.
All rookie QB's need time to show what their ceiling is but if we look at Stafford, a rookie QB on a team that won zero games the year before, his stats are pretty good considering the talent around him.
As for Sanchez, the main criticism before he was drafted was that he only had 16 starts as a college QB vs over 40 for Peyton yet his stats compare favourably with most 1st year QB's who go on to successful careers. I think the future bodes well for these 2 QB's.

Iamcanadian
12-27-2009, 10:13 AM
Is not just you. Many people, including me, think this QB crop is average at best from top to bottom. I think they're all a bunch of average joes, and some are going to get overdrafted by some desperate, QB-hungry team. In my opinion, not a single QB stands out. They're all either from the spread, put up inflated stats, have bad mechanics, have thin builds, have never taken a snap from under center, have questionable leadership abilities, are injury prone, don't have great measurables, etc. Just a bunch of Bleh! qbs.

So your saying if Peyton Manning had played for a spread team in college he would have had zero hope as a pro. Your being absurd in your analysis. Pro GM's and scouts look for arm strength, mental toughness, leadership, pocket awareness, intangibles etc. etc. etc. they might give a small downgrade for things like playing in a spread or not having taken a snap but they are minor compared to the upgrade they would give for the attributes I have mentioned.
They may well turnout to be average joes or just maybe we could find 1 or 2 who have excellent careers. QB's can be over drafted but it can also go the other way where QB's are under drafted, just ask the teams who passed on Roethlisberger, Brees and Rivers.

RealityCheck
12-27-2009, 10:32 AM
Mallett???
Is he staying?

Also, I have a feeling that Tony Pike's stock will skyrocket after him and Gilyard kill the poor Gators.

And there are two prospects that will be studs in 2011: Jerrod Johnson from A&M and Dwight Dasher from MTS.

Geason Noceur
12-27-2009, 12:02 PM
So your saying if Peyton Manning had played for a spread team in college he would have had zero hope as a pro. Your being absurd in your analysis. Pro GM's and scouts look for arm strength, mental toughness, leadership, pocket awareness, intangibles etc. etc. etc. they might give a small downgrade for things like playing in a spread or not having taken a snap but they are minor compared to the upgrade they would give for the attributes I have mentioned.
They may well turnout to be average joes or just maybe we could find 1 or 2 who have excellent careers. QB's can be over drafted but it can also go the other way where QB's are under drafted, just ask the teams who passed on Roethlisberger, Brees and Rivers.

I didn't say they had zero hope. I said that I think they're not anything special. Most spread QBs take longer to get used to the NFL, even Brees took a few years to have success. If you're going to take a QB in the first round he better have a few qualities that might help you right away. There's not many Carson Palmers that sit around their rookie year anymore. And none of this year's characters are close to Manning even if he had played in the spread.

FUNBUNCHER
12-27-2009, 02:52 PM
Peyton Manning averaged 20 INTs a season his first 5 years in the league. I know the trend now is to make proclamations on a prospect's entire NFL career after one season, but in reality it still takes patience and snaps to make a solid analysis on what a young pro QB will become in the pros.

Same deal with Brady Quinn. He hasn't played enough games, let alone full seasons, to determine what kind of QB he will ultimately be in the pros.

With Clausen, he doesn't excite me, but I would be mildly shocked if he didn't turn out to be at least a solid QB in the pros.

Bradford is the one I expect to develop into a pro bowl QB, problem is I don't think there's ever been an era in the NFL when there's been so many talented QBs in the league at one time.

Used to be that throwing for 3500yds/26 TDs/12 INTs/60% completions were automatic pro-bowl #s.

Now that's just a decent season for a quality NFL QB.

RyanBraun8
12-27-2009, 03:54 PM
I am not as in love with the 2011 Draft class as most but they do have some guys who could be really good QB's. Mallet as the most upside but I don't think he can be throw straight in the line of fire. They need to develop him a little more, he still has a lot he could improve on. Locker is a guy I can see coming in right away and playing decently. He doesn't have as high of a ceiling as Mallet but he could be very good. Gabbert and Johnson with big years and combines could also really rise there stocks and I think could be really good QBs but at that Snead, Devlin, Prior, Keenum, and etc might be bome okay nfl QBs but I don't see them as be stars

Bengalsrocket
12-27-2009, 05:07 PM
As Manning's stats indicate, rookie QB's no matter how great they may become often have serious trouble with interceptions, completion average and passing ratings. It isn't all that unusual.
All rookie QB's need time to show what their ceiling is but if we look at Stafford, a rookie QB on a team that won zero games the year before, his stats are pretty good considering the talent around him.
As for Sanchez, the main criticism before he was drafted was that he only had 16 starts as a college QB vs over 40 for Peyton yet his stats compare favourably with most 1st year QB's who go on to successful careers. I think the future bodes well for these 2 QB's.

Well to be fair, I think Manning set a record with 26 TDs his rookie year.

Again, I like both Sanchez and Stafford and think both can become great players for their respective franchises. But I just think we should wait before we declare them anything. You never know what's going to happen with either of these guys and it's a bit premature to say that they've already made it :p

Either way though, I don't think you and I are arguing against each other so much as we are both trying to make separate points :P In fact, I agree with you: I think every year we over analyze a lot of prospects and then they fall way down the draft board because people start to try and be contrary to the common vote.

JDR2882
12-27-2009, 05:39 PM
I don't see why there is so much hate toward Jimmy Clausen. He may get 'overdrafted' due to the QB being highly valued, but that will not be Clausen's fault.

Clausen has been tutored by Charlie Weis and ran a pro style offense. Clausen would have a good chance succeeding right away and has the makings of a really good NFL QB.

Iamcanadian
12-27-2009, 11:57 PM
Well to be fair, I think Manning set a record with 26 TDs his rookie year.

Again, I like both Sanchez and Stafford and think both can become great players for their respective franchises. But I just think we should wait before we declare them anything. You never know what's going to happen with either of these guys and it's a bit premature to say that they've already made it :p

Either way though, I don't think you and I are arguing against each other so much as we are both trying to make separate points :P In fact, I agree with you: I think every year we over analyze a lot of prospects and then they fall way down the draft board because people start to try and be contrary to the common vote.

I think your right, we probably are in general agreement. I also agree that neither Stafford or Sanchez are there yet and need more success before crowning them. Jusy saying there rookie seasons shows great promise to me.

OaklandRaider56
12-28-2009, 01:01 AM
Does anyone else like Sean Canfield as much as I do? I think the guy's a special player. My favorite QB in the class.