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Xiomera
12-31-2009, 06:45 PM
Here's an interesting article to get the discussion going:

http://detnews.com/article/20091231/...t-job-security (http://detnews.com/article/20091231/SPORTS0101/912310369/1004/SPORTS/Only-handful-of-Lions-boast-job-security)

Anyone disagree with any of these?

Does anyone have a link to player salaries we've committed to for next season?

Xiomera
12-31-2009, 06:51 PM
Here's a projection of what starting positions we currently have filled for next year:

QB - Matthew Stafford
RB -
FB -
WR1 - Calvin Johnson
WR2 - Bryant Johnson (only cause he's signed for 2 more years)
TE - Brandon Pettigrew
LT - Jeff Backus
LG -
C - Dominic Raiola
RG - Stephen Peterman (longterm contract, decent when healthy)
RT - Gosder Cherilus (too early to give up)

DE -
DT - Sammie Lee Hill
DT -
DE - Cliff Avril (might not start, but he'll contribute nonetheless)
OLB - Julian Peterson (could be cut to save over 7 million, but I bet we keep him)
MLB - Larry Foote (supposedly wants to return, so why not?)
OLB - DeAndre Levy / Ernie Sims (won't hurt to maintain our strength at LB)
CB - William James (finding 2 starting corners seems unlikely)
CB -
S - Louis Delmas
S -

Hanson and Harris will probably come back.

StorminNorman
12-31-2009, 10:07 PM
I think Turk McBride could solidify a defensive end position.

I would like to trade Cliff Avril to a 3-4 team like Kansas City.

Hanson needs to consider retirement.

Xiomera
12-31-2009, 10:35 PM
I think Turk McBride could solidify a defensive end position.

I would like to trade Cliff Avril to a 3-4 team like Kansas City.

Hanson needs to consider retirement.

McBride won't start, so we still need to find a starting end. Dewayne White is gonna get cut. No sacks this year? WTF?

Avril won't be traded. Guys don't get traded in the NFL. He's either cut or a rotational guy.

Scotty D
12-31-2009, 10:43 PM
http://www.freep.com/article/20091230/SPORTS01/91230053/1048/rss03

According to a list obtained by the Associated Press today, there are 212 players who would be considered restricted free agents ó instead of unrestricted ó if there is no salary cap in 2010. There is at least one player from each of the NFLís 32 teams on the list.

The seven Detroit Lions who would be affected are: safety Daniel Bullocks, center Dylan Gandy, defensive end Jason Hunter, wide receiver Adam Jennings, guard Daniel Loper, safety Ko Simpson and linebacker Cody Spencer.

Lets use this thread to talk about free agency and trades. Probably the only guy I'd like to see brought back out of those is Jason Hunter.

Xiomera
12-31-2009, 10:50 PM
Yeah, the Lions seem to have several good backup DE's, but we need a true difference-maker at the position. Jared DeVries comes back too.

Maybe Brandon Graham at the top of the 2nd round?

StorminNorman
12-31-2009, 11:04 PM
McBride won't start, so we still need to find a starting end. Dewayne White is gonna get cut. No sacks this year? WTF?

Avril won't be traded. Guys don't get traded in the NFL. He's either cut or a rotational guy.

Yes, guy's don't get traded in the NFL, ever. He could certianly be a rotational guy (he won't be cut), but I think a team like the Chiefs (who have a desperate need for LB's and pass rushers) could see Avril as a player that would really benefit from taking his hand off the ground.

Yeah, the Lions seem to have several good backup DE's, but we need a true difference-maker at the position. Jared DeVries comes back too.

Maybe Brandon Graham at the top of the 2nd round?

I would rather look at players like Carlos Dunlap and Everson Griffin.

Prowler
01-01-2010, 07:51 AM
http://thenetrat.com/salarycap.html if you download the 2009 latest one, it also has full contracts all the way through 2014.

Prowler
01-01-2010, 08:55 AM
confirmed 2010 contracts without assuming cuts
i'm half basing this off thenetrat which is a little old. any help would be great. i used rotoworld to hunt down most of the current lions' contract status but i may have missed something from the old contracts.

qb: stafford/stanton
rb: smith/morris/brown
fb: felton
wr: calvin/bryant/northcutt/williams/fowler
te: pettigrew
ot: backus/cherilus
og: peterman
c: raiola

de: white/avril/mcbride/devries
dt: jackson/hill/cohen/fluellen
lb: peterson/levy/sims/dizon/follett
cb: buchanan/james/king/hobbs/witherspoon/jack williams
s: delmas/pearson/deangelo smith

k: hanson
p: harris
ls: mulbach


restricted undisclosed contract likely pup
i don't know about s marvin white
who the f is jack williams?
looks like almost all of our oline depth leaves as a free agent.
this elevates okung even more for me since cherilus can't go 4 games without being benched this year.
also we have added terrance taylor to our practice squad

Xiomera
01-01-2010, 09:37 AM
Yes, guy's don't get traded in the NFL, ever. He could certianly be a rotational guy (he won't be cut), but I think a team like the Chiefs (who have a desperate need for LB's and pass rushers) could see Avril as a player that would really benefit from taking his hand off the ground.



I would rather look at players like Carlos Dunlap and Everson Griffin.

Right, but how much is Avril worth in a trade? He was a third round pick, surely he isn't going to net us more or even close to the value we invested in him.

His highest value to the Lions is in the role he's in now, staying in Detroit.

SINCE1978
01-01-2010, 09:41 AM
Of the "Likely Gone's" the only disagreement I have is with J. Peterson. I would retain him too Xio.

Of the "On The Hot Seat's" I would retain A. Brown, J. Hunter, K. Smith, D. Williams & W. James.

This caters perfectly to what I envision the 2010 draft looking like for Detroit: DT, DE, G, DB, RB.

Filling in the blanks: Suh (DT), Graham (DE), Asamoah (G), K. Chancellor (S), A. Dixon (RB) would fill these holes wonderfully!!

Prowler
01-01-2010, 09:46 AM
with the state of our dline, linebackers, and blitz heavy scheme this would be the offseason to switch to a 3-4. not that it will happen though...

i didn't mind hunter and mcbride this year. i forgot to add devries to the depth chart, but he isn't adding a whole lot to that equation.

Iamcanadian
01-01-2010, 09:50 AM
http://www.freep.com/article/20091230/SPORTS01/91230053/1048/rss03



Lets use this thread to talk about free agency and trades. Probably the only guy I'd like to see brought back out of those is Jason Hunter.

What we all have to remember is that there will be very few URFA's. There will be a few veteran defenders but almost nothing on the offensive side of the ball. Each restricted FA you sign is going to cost you at least a 1st rounder so I cannot see us using that method.
The only improvements on the team in an uncapped year will come from the draft not FA.
It pretty well means most teams will be stuck with their current rosters plus rookies.

zachsaints52
01-01-2010, 10:30 AM
Filling in the blanks: Suh (DT), Graham (DE), Asamoah (G), K. Chancellor (S), A. Dixon (RB) would fill these holes wonderfully!!
That would be a really good draft if that happened for the Lions.

StorminNorman
01-01-2010, 12:55 PM
Right, but how much is Avril worth in a trade? He was a third round pick, surely he isn't going to net us more or even close to the value we invested in him.

His highest value to the Lions is in the role he's in now, staying in Detroit.

Well he is one of the top performing pass rushers from the 2008 draft class with 10 sacks in two years (more of a commentary on that draft class than anything else). Package him with a fourth or third round pick - perhaps that's enough to take in out-of-place Glenn Dorsey.

Scotty D
01-01-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm glad we have Eric King under contract for next. I liked what what I saw from before he got injured. Terrance Taylor on the practice squad??? Interesting

noondog
01-01-2010, 04:08 PM
Definitely keep K Smith. His year was affected in large part by the terrible play of the o-line. Iupati/Ducasse/Asamoah/Williams...any one of those three would be a big help at guard.

Although there won't be many UFA's this year, I think that we'll see quite a cuts involving bigger names that we might have a chance to grab. Dunta Robinson is one guy that I would like to see in Detroit next season.

As for Peterson, I'm on the fence. If a salary cap is agreed to, I say cut him as his production isn't worth $7.5 mil a year. If no cap, keep him around for another season.

detroit4life
01-02-2010, 05:13 PM
what are people's opinion on cherilous playing OG? would he be able to handle the move?

also im very curious on whether dorsey is still an option in a trade.

if we could trade sims and a 3rd or 4th for dorsey i would do it in a heartbeat

Scotty D
01-02-2010, 06:48 PM
what are people's opinion on cherilous playing OG? would he be able to handle the move?

also im very curious on whether dorsey is still an option in a trade.

if we could trade sims and a 3rd or 4th for dorsey i would do it in a heartbeat

6'7 is pretty tall for an OG but if it would be possible I think I'd like him to do it.

Because I think this would be the best way to solve the Oline

New LT - Goz - Raiola - Peterman - Backus

But I don't know if Gosder moving to LG is a realistic scenario

Prowler
01-03-2010, 04:42 AM
ideally i'd prefer if we somehow ended up with a new LT and guard with cherilus the long term right tackle and swingman for depth. probably too much to ask for though in one year.

noondog
01-03-2010, 01:34 PM
Seems like the best place to post this as I'm too lazy to start a gameday thread...

Levy has 8 first half tackles and has looked great in the middle. This pleases me.

Scotty D
01-03-2010, 03:32 PM
I can't wait for Schwartz to cut all the scrubs on this team, Anthony Henry goes first.

Prowler
01-03-2010, 04:02 PM
luckily henry is walking away no matter what. this was his last year of his deal. byrant johnson is tied with heyward-bey as the worst wr in the league according to profootballfocus stats. roy williams has a higher catch percentage.

detroit4life
01-03-2010, 04:10 PM
does anyone know what cap room we'll have this offseason?

Prowler
01-03-2010, 05:19 PM
infinite. no new collective bargaining agreement. young free agents will be harder to come by though so unless we trade we're pretty much going to be stuck with our roster, current free agents, and draft. sounds like they are building a new agreement though and hopefully they'll have that rookie salary cap in there. it would help us out more than most teams.

Addict
01-03-2010, 06:33 PM
infinite. no new collective bargaining agreement. young free agents will be harder to come by though so unless we trade we're pretty much going to be stuck with our roster, current free agents, and draft. sounds like they are building a new agreement though and hopefully they'll have that rookie salary cap in there. it would help us out more than most teams.

considering we draft top 5 annually, I agree.

detroit4life
01-03-2010, 08:19 PM
i doubt we have a chance but i wonder if ford would open his wallet for peppers. i dont think he will resign with carolina and it would cost them about 20 mil to franchise him again

SINCE1978
01-03-2010, 09:02 PM
Maybe not Peppers b/c of the big $$, but maybe another Boilermaker across from Avril like Ray Edwards? Doubtful he leaves Minnesota, but enough $$ might sway him ... pretty sure he is a FA at the end of the season.

McBride, Hunter & White are all back ups imo. Watching their combined ineptitude today cemented my belief there ;o) Avril is a good situational DE but we lack play makers at this position in a major way! Griffen/Hardy/Graham/JPP/Hughes all might be solid options if there @ pick 34?

tblain1
01-03-2010, 09:24 PM
i doubt we have a chance but i wonder if ford would open his wallet for peppers. i dont think he will resign with carolina and it would cost them about 20 mil to franchise him again

Even if he did, would peppers come here? Its going to be a while before we draw attrative free agents...think about the Tigers during their 90s, early 00s drought. Only reason we got pudge and maggs is because we took a chance on those guys. i think with the Lions its going to be the same.

Scotty D
01-03-2010, 10:45 PM
Terrell Owens, Kyle Vandon Bosch, and Aaron Kampman are some names I'd throw out there

detroit4life
01-03-2010, 10:57 PM
im not sure the coaches will want to put calvin and stafford in a position to have to deal with TO so i'd give up on that one IMO.

Scotty D
01-03-2010, 11:10 PM
TO played on a pretty bad Buffalo team and didn't cause any problems. Calvin seems pretty mature and I really don't think he'd have any negative affect on him. He'd probably come on a year deal and we wouldn't have to spend a draft pick on a WR. I'd sign him.

detroit4life
01-03-2010, 11:26 PM
but this would be the first time where T.O. wasnt the number 1 option. and if things blow up it would tear apart our team with a 2nd year QB, TE and CJ being relatively young as well.

Scotty D
01-04-2010, 01:25 AM
but this would be the first time where T.O. wasnt the number 1 option. and if things blow up it would tear apart our team with a 2nd year QB, TE and CJ being relatively young as well.

I'm not sure if not being the #1 option would bother him that much in this point of his career. Its a bit of a risk but we are so devoid of talent that I'd look into. Plus he'd come on a one year deal most likely, so you can cut him and it won't be a big deal. Personally I think he'd like to come play for a QB like Stafford plus he would get open with CJ on the field.

CJ, Pettigrew, Kevin Smith, Aaron Brown, and TO on the field for one play?? I think that sounds pretty sick.

Addict
01-04-2010, 04:07 AM
Terrell Owens, Kyle Vandon Bosch, and Aaron Kampman are some names I'd throw out there

I'd like Vanden Bosch... pretty sure Owens and Kampman won't play for the Lions.

Scotty D
01-04-2010, 06:14 AM
All the Detroit radio guys want to sign TO this morning...SWDC lurkers??? lol

Maybe Next Year Millen2
01-04-2010, 08:36 AM
Eugene Amano would be a good free agent pickup. LG for the Titans, good run blocker since CJ got 2,000. He was drafted in 2004 so he has 6 accrued seasons and will be a free agent. Plus the Schwartz connection with the Titans. I know Loper was an uber fail but he was a backup to begin with on the Titans. Amano is a legit starter. Logan Mankins and Evans won't be free agents since they don't have enough seasons.

I would love Kampman too but thats a pipe dream. VanDenBosch eh, he's old and not the same since Haynesworth left. He would be an upgrade over White(who is gone) and Hunter for sure though.

And any decent corner will do just as long as William James does not start ever again.

Xiomera
01-04-2010, 08:49 AM
Eugene Amano would be a good free agent pickup. LG for the Titans, good run blocker since CJ got 2,000. He was drafted in 2004 so he has 6 accrued seasons and will be a free agent. Plus the Schwartz connection with the Titans. I know Loper was an uber fail but he was a backup to begin with on the Titans. Amano is a legit starter. Logan Mankins and Evans won't be free agents since they don't have enough seasons.

I would love Kampman too but thats a pipe dream. VanDenBosch eh, he's old and not the same since Haynesworth left. He would be an upgrade over White(who is gone) and Hunter for sure though.

And any decent corner will do just as long as William James does not start ever again.

James is still the best CB we have. He probably will start since it's unrealistic to expect finding 2 new starters at corner.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
01-04-2010, 10:00 AM
James is still the best CB we have. He probably will start since it's unrealistic to expect finding 2 new starters at corner.

I still think Buchanon is the best we have. Buchanon wasn't picked on as much and I think there is a reason for that. It seems it was usually James/Marvin White getting beat especially for big plays. May just be the safety on that side that they picked on James but James has no speed which causes big problems and why he lines up way off the receiver. Which makes him susceptible to getting beat underneath too. Buchanon has speed and better ball skills IMO. Plus Buchanon is signed for another year,James is not.

Will be interesting too with Eric King back. I think the starters will be Buchanon,hopefully a decent FA corner or good rookie corner and then Eric King in the nickel. Maybe they bring James back to compete but I really don't want to see him starting next year for sure.

Iamcanadian
01-04-2010, 11:15 AM
I see where Scott Wright is saying that McCoy might be a better DT than Suh. Just goes to show how hype can convince fans that a player is special.

noondog
01-04-2010, 11:40 AM
Ray Edwards will be a RFA as things stand, so he won't be coming.

T.O. would be interesting for sure. Definitely high risk, high reward, but it would make for a sick WR combo...

Kampman would look so goooood as a Lion! He can go back to playing with a hand in the dirt all the time and would INSTANTLY improve our pass rush. Kampman and Suh/McCoy joining the D-line would be awesome.

No thanks to Peppers...

DoWnThEfiElD
01-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Could you guys imagine how different our roster would have been had we selected Andre Johnson, instead of Charles Rogers? I only ask this because our team would be different along with the fact that I want Johnson so much more than Rogers at the time.

Yes, I know you could say that with a number of picks, but I actually felt at that time if we wanted a WR we actually took the worse one of the two.

Xiomera
01-04-2010, 09:45 PM
Could you guys imagine how different our roster would have been had we selected Andre Johnson, instead of Charles Rogers? I only ask this because our team would be different along with the fact that I want Johnson so much more than Rogers at the time.

Yes, I know you could say that with a number of picks, but I actually felt at that time if we wanted a WR we actually took the worse one of the two.

Well, we'd have Joe Thomas or AD instead of Calvin . . . that'd be one big difference.

detroit4life
01-04-2010, 09:48 PM
probably Derrick Johnson or Merriman instead of drafting Mike williams

SINCE1978
01-04-2010, 10:21 PM
probably Derrick Johnson or Merriman instead of drafting Mike williams

Or DeMarcus Ware ... take your pick.

Xiomera
01-04-2010, 10:44 PM
http://blog.mlive.com/its-just-sports/2010/01/fixing_the_lions.html

detroit4life
01-04-2010, 11:07 PM
i mean yeah id love to be able to sign breaston mcniel rogers spears and sharper....

DoWnThEfiElD
01-04-2010, 11:17 PM
probably Derrick Johnson or Merriman instead of drafting Mike williams

Then prob someone instead of Ernie Sims. I would be a vastly different team.

noondog
01-05-2010, 12:10 AM
I could do without Sharper. He had an amazing year, but unless we got him dirt cheap then I'll pass.

I was surprised that Kampman wasn't on the list.

StorminNorman
01-05-2010, 12:18 AM
I would like to get Vanden Bosch.

detroit4life
01-05-2010, 01:32 AM
I could do without Sharper. He had an amazing year, but unless we got him dirt cheap then I'll pass.

I was surprised that Kampman wasn't on the list.

i agree with sharper but he is a great playmaker and he seems to always kill us when we play him (but i guess who doesnt....)

cotts1
01-05-2010, 01:59 AM
I still think Buchanon is the best we have. Buchanon wasn't picked on as much and I think there is a reason for that. It seems it was usually James/Marvin White getting beat especially for big plays. May just be the safety on that side that they picked on James but James has no speed which causes big problems and why he lines up way off the receiver. Which makes him susceptible to getting beat underneath too. Buchanon has speed and better ball skills IMO. Plus Buchanon is signed for another year,James is not.

Will be interesting too with Eric King back. I think the starters will be Buchanon,hopefully a decent FA corner or good rookie corner and then Eric King in the nickel. Maybe they bring James back to compete but I really don't want to see him starting next year for sure.


Well as Lions fans we usually don't get to watch our home games, so we don't always know how certain guys played but James was definitely our best CB all year from what I saw. Buchanon got benched like 5 times throughout the season. I doubt Buchanon is back next year. Henry is for sure gone.

Scotty D
01-05-2010, 04:26 AM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawksblog/2010697394_seahawksfreeagents.html?syndication=rss

Caught this on rotoworld but Nate Burleson is set to become a free agent after the Super Bowl. He had a good year and is definitely the type of guy I'd like to bring in.

Prowler
01-05-2010, 07:02 AM
if we get avant and breaston then we might as well pick up mike hart. and no way is sharper ever walking from the saints.

SINCE1978
01-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Who is our back up QB next year?
Culpepper is gone. Interesting side note (to me at least), C Pep has had his family in Florida for weeks and is selling/sold his Northville, Mi house (I know the teacher of his daughter who taught her for 1/2 the year)
Stanton sounds like he is leaning toward being gone too. I feel some team will scoop him up as their #2 project, probalby not Detroit or he would have started Chicago week.

So who does that leave .. Pat Ramsey? (yikes!)
(don't laugh) but Rex Grossman might make sense as Stafford's back up in 2010. Plenty of experience (even in the SB) knows the division opponents, would come fairly cheap ... I know he is sort of a punch line but thoughts anyone?

Maybe Next Year Millen2
01-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Well as Lions fans we usually don't get to watch our home games, so we don't always know how certain guys played but James was definitely our best CB all year from what I saw. Buchanon got benched like 5 times throughout the season. I doubt Buchanon is back next year. Henry is for sure gone.


Buchanon got benched once and got hurt twice. James is terrible and is the one that gets picked on constantly. Play actions destroy him. I watch all the games twice with local bar/game rewind, live in DC not Michigan.

SINCE1978
01-05-2010, 11:15 AM
Eric King, Jack Williams, Chris Roberson, Dexter Wynn, Marquand Manuel & Lewis Bullocks should be back from the IR in 2010 ... any of THESE DB's worth retaining?

We just acquired Jonathan Hefney from the CFL this week ... strange timing?

We are going to have to use some of these busters, the draft can only fill so many holes.

Addict
01-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Eric King, Jack Williams, Chris Roberson, Dexter Wynn, Marquand Manuel & Lewis Bullocks should be back from the IR in 2010 ... any of THESE DB's worth retaining?

We just acquired Jonathan Hefney from the CFL this week ... strange timing?

We are going to have to use some of these busters, the draft can only fill so many holes.

He can help the team out, he can hand out drinks while they watch the playoffs and superbowl together on tv.

Prowler
01-05-2010, 12:09 PM
i actually have hefney as my backup free safety in madden. he is rated horrible but has good speed.

noondog
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
Hefney was a CFL all-star in his rookie season for whatever that's worth.

detroit4life
01-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Hefney was a CFL all-star in his rookie season for whatever that's worth.

haha probably not too much...

StorminNorman
01-05-2010, 02:33 PM
Cameron Wake isn't laughing.

Hefney is a former All-SEC DB.

Scotty D
01-05-2010, 08:57 PM
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/01/lions_re-sign_dan_gronkowski_t.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+detroit-lions+%28Detroit+Lions+-+MLive.com%29

The Detroit Lions signed nine free agents today, including former seventh-round pick Dan Gronkowski, a tight end, and defensive tackle Terrence Taylor of Michigan.

Gronkowski was a rookie this season and was active for two games but finished the season on the practice squad.

The Lions also signed cornerback Jahi Word-Daniels, guard Kurt Quarterman, defensive end Robert Henderson, receivers Michael Ray Garvin and Kole Heckendorf and defensive backs Jonathan Hefney and Paul Pratt.

detroit4life
01-05-2010, 09:51 PM
wonder if they actually have a plan for taylor. I liked him coming outa michigan but he is pretty short for a DT

Addict
01-06-2010, 04:51 AM
Why the hell are we signing all these guys now? Did someone forget to tell the FO that we're not going to the playoffs?

Prowler
01-06-2010, 07:51 AM
gronkowski could stick but everyone else is just here to compete in training camp and give the coaches somebody to cut in spring

cotts1
01-09-2010, 06:27 PM
Buchanon got benched once and got hurt twice. James is terrible and is the one that gets picked on constantly. Play actions destroy him. I watch all the games twice with local bar/game rewind, live in DC not Michigan.

Buchanon did play better the last few games but Schwartz has even said publicly that James was the Leo's best CB all season. Also, the blame you place on James for giving up bigs plays on play action probably were actually because of mistakes made by the SS not giving James help over the top.

SINCE1978
01-09-2010, 10:15 PM
Buchanon did play better the last few games but Schwartz has even said publicly that James was the Leo's best CB all season. Also, the blame you place on James for giving up bigs plays on play action probably were actually because of mistakes made by the SS not giving James help over the top.

You could also blame the lack of pass rush as well ;o)

SINCE1978
01-17-2010, 12:37 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4833908
Wow, Chicago Bears DE Gaines Adams died Sunday of apparent cardiac arrest... that is sad. A life cut short at age 26 with a suspected clean bill of health. Man, I pray for his family.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-17-2010, 01:30 PM
Ray Edwards is a beast, I would through some money at that guy this off season.

noondog
01-17-2010, 02:18 PM
Ray Edwards is a beast, I would through some money at that guy this off season.

RFA as it stands right now though...I wouldn't want to part with draft picks to get him. If a new CBA is reached, that would be a different story.

Prowler
01-17-2010, 03:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4833908
Wow, Chicago Bears DE Gaines Adams died Sunday of apparent cardiac arrest... that is sad. A life cut short at age 26 with a suspected clean bill of health. Man, I pray for his family.

this isn't the greatest thing for me to say but i doubt anybody on here is related to him so, that was one horrible trade for chicago.

cotts1
01-17-2010, 08:57 PM
Def should go after big Ray if he becomes unrestricted....Mayhew probably already has the offer drawn up....cmon Ray! were building somethin' good here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Addict
01-18-2010, 11:00 AM
Def should go after big Ray if he becomes unrestricted....Mayhew probably already has the offer drawn up....cmon Ray! were building somethin' good here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt ray will be free to go... honestly stop wishing for free agents to come here. They won't.

cotts1
01-18-2010, 01:22 PM
I doubt ray will be free to go... honestly stop wishing for free agents to come here. They won't.

We have 50 million in cap space, we have money to offer, which is what most FA's are interested in......good to see your such an optimist.....

noondog
01-18-2010, 01:48 PM
We have 50 million in cap space, we have money to offer, which is what most FA's are interested in......good to see your such an optimist.....

As of right now, the cap space argument is redundant as there won't be a cap next year.

Prowler
01-18-2010, 02:04 PM
spending on free agents is the best way to limit our rebuilding. unfortunately we are not yet done rebuilding. for every $10 we spend on free agents, they'll probably end up only earning $6 of it. it's better to slowly build through the draft. we'll coach and be around a lot of the best prospects at the senior bowl and will be able to grab the players whom we know for certain can do the jobs we ask them to in our system. i remember having kalimba's contract and all the other stuff that we just got out from under. i kind of like where our team is situated right now.

plus imagine next offseason when we improve more, have less holes, and will be able to spend it alot better. plus if there isn't a new CBA then i'm sure the teams with money will drive up the price for the FA that are available. this is the temptation offseason.

cotts1
01-18-2010, 03:13 PM
spending on free agents is the best way to limit our rebuilding. unfortunately we are not yet done rebuilding. for every $10 we spend on free agents, they'll probably end up only earning $6 of it. it's better to slowly build through the draft. we'll coach and be around a lot of the best prospects at the senior bowl and will be able to grab the players whom we know for certain can do the jobs we ask them to in our system. i remember having kalimba's contract and all the other stuff that we just got out from under. i kind of like where our team is situated right now.

plus imagine next offseason when we improve more, have less holes, and will be able to spend it alot better. plus if there isn't a new CBA then i'm sure the teams with money will drive up the price for the FA that are available. this is the temptation offseason.

I agree, but Ray Edwards is only 25, and a beast. He plays a position of great need for us. He is a guy I would throw some money at. Yes, odds are we won't get him.....I hope we try though.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-18-2010, 04:04 PM
I agree, but Ray Edwards is only 25, and a beast. He plays a position of great need for us. He is a guy I would throw some money at. Yes, odds are we won't get him.....I hope we try though.

His age and potential are the main reasons I would pursue him. Maybe Avril could help recruit him here. It's a long shot, but he is one of the few free agents that I would actually pay, given our current condition.

noondog
01-18-2010, 04:29 PM
I agree, but Ray Edwards is only 25, and a beast. He plays a position of great need for us. He is a guy I would throw some money at. Yes, odds are we won't get him.....I hope we try though.

I'm assuming that you're saying this under the assumption that a new CBA will be reached? Would you want to sign him as an RFA and give up picks?

Keep in mind that Edwards has also had the luxury of playing with the Williams wall his whole career, not to mention that other dude named Allen for the last two as well. How would he perform with us?

DoWnThEfiElD
01-18-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm assuming that you're saying this under the assumption that a new CBA will be reached? Would you want to sign him as an RFA and give up picks?

Keep in mind that Edwards has also had the luxury of playing with the Williams wall his whole career, not to mention that other dude named Allen for the last two as well. How would he perform with us?

I'm assuming a new CBA is reached. At some point you have to sign a guy with potential who could be around for a while. Edwards seems like he may fit that bill better than most.

Scotty D
01-18-2010, 04:52 PM
Couple things about Ray Edwards...wasn't he already suspended for some sort of drug use? Watch how hard Minnesota tries to keep him because remember that he is playing on a line with Pat Williams, Kevin Williams, and Jared Allen.

Addict
01-18-2010, 06:03 PM
Couple things about Ray Edwards...wasn't he already suspended for some sort of drug use? Watch how hard Minnesota tries to keep him because remember that he is playing on a line with Pat Williams, Kevin Williams, and Jared Allen.

exactly. not hard to shine bright with guys like that next to you

cotts1
01-18-2010, 06:37 PM
I'm assuming that you're saying this under the assumption that a new CBA will be reached? Would you want to sign him as an RFA and give up picks?

Keep in mind that Edwards has also had the luxury of playing with the Williams wall his whole career, not to mention that other dude named Allen for the last two as well. How would he perform with us?

I am under the assumption a new CBA will be reached. I would not go after any RFA's. Of course having those guys helps Edwards but it's clear the guy has the talent to be a premiere DE.

noondog
01-19-2010, 09:56 AM
I am under the assumption a new CBA will be reached. I would not go after any RFA's. Of course having those guys helps Edwards but it's clear the guy has the talent to be a premiere DE.

He clearly has the talent to be an above-average DE...I'll hold off on the annointing as a premiere DE until I see him play on a D-line that isn't all-world.

cotts1
01-19-2010, 12:32 PM
He clearly has the talent to be an above-average DE...I'll hold off on the annointing as a premiere DE until I see him play on a D-line that isn't all-world.

I said he has the talent to be a premiere DE. I would agree as of right now he is above-average.

tblain1
01-19-2010, 01:08 PM
We have 50 million in cap space, we have money to offer, which is what most FA's are interested in......good to see your such an optimist.....

Cap Space does not equal our owner enforced budget. Also keep in mind we have to sign a #2 pick.

SINCE1978
01-19-2010, 01:39 PM
I see some of you are starting to see what I was talking about with Mr. Ray Edwards ... unfortunately it took the big stage of last weekends Cowboy romping to see it! I like his skill set, unfortunately so will every GM with cap room in the league who needs a DE now! He stays put in Minnesota though I bet, although he played himself into a huge raise with 1 great game.
The Jets are a great blue print. Drafting stars at C,T,DT ... ILB,CB, TE ... RB,QB ... and plucking FA's in needed spots like Lito Sheppard & Bart Scott in the off season & Braylon Edwards to make the run for the playoffs. FA is not intended to bring in 5-8 guys in the off season to make your team better. No way that plan works. Build slow through the draft (only 1 solid year of that in Detroit so far, combined with CJ & a few olineman?) and only bring in a solid player or 2 each year until they are respectable. RB & DE might be our focus points in FA, not EVERY position though ... DT, CB, S, LG that's what the draft allows Detroit to do. Chester Taylor & Aaron Kampman I would target if at all possible. That's it.

noondog
01-19-2010, 01:58 PM
Chester Taylor & Aaron Kampman I would target if at all possible. That's it.

I would add Dunta Robinson to that list if he's let go by the Texans. I think he's a player we could get to come to Detroit and would immediately upgrade our secondary. He's also young enough to grow with the core of the team.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-19-2010, 02:09 PM
I would add Dunta Robinson to that list if he's let go by the Texans. I think he's a player we could get to come to Detroit and would immediately upgrade our secondary. He's also young enough to grow with the core of the team.

That is exactly what we are looking for. Free agents who are young enough to grow with the team. With that said it is going to be so hard to convince them to come play in Detroit.

Prowler
01-19-2010, 02:14 PM
way to hit 2,000 posts

and dunta wouldn't be able to ask for more money because PAY ME MARTIN probably wouldn't fit on the back of his shoes. with how horrible our secondary has been i can live with spending money on dunta.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-19-2010, 02:17 PM
way to hit 2,000 posts

and dunta wouldn't be able to ask for more money because PAY ME MARTIN probably wouldn't fit on the back of his shoes. with how horrible our secondary has been i can live with spending money on dunta.

Thanks Man.

I agree, I don't mind spending money on anyone young enough with potential that could fit into the core of what we are trying to build. If we only get one or two guys that truly fit that mold this free agency I would consider it to be successful.

tblain1
01-19-2010, 03:55 PM
I see some of you are starting to see what I was talking about with Mr. Ray Edwards ... unfortunately it took the big stage of last weekends Cowboy romping to see it! I like his skill set, unfortunately so will every GM with cap room in the league who needs a DE now! He stays put in Minnesota though I bet, although he played himself into a huge raise with 1 great game.
The Jets are a great blue print. Drafting stars at C,T,DT ... ILB,CB, TE ... RB,QB ... and plucking FA's in needed spots like Lito Sheppard & Bart Scott in the off season & Braylon Edwards to make the run for the playoffs. FA is not intended to bring in 5-8 guys in the off season to make your team better. No way that plan works. Build slow through the draft (only 1 solid year of that in Detroit so far, combined with CJ & a few olineman?) and only bring in a solid player or 2 each year until they are respectable. RB & DE might be our focus points in FA, not EVERY position though ... DT, CB, S, LG that's what the draft allows Detroit to do. Chester Taylor & Aaron Kampman I would target if at all possible. That's it.

Here is my thing about Edwards.... yeah he looks great. He almost devoured Stafford in our first game against Minny. Very active in the pass rush. But the question on everyone's mind needs to be, "How does he play when he no longer has Williams, Williams, and Allen to his left?" Is he still going to be as productive? Is he more a product this year of being the 4th guy on an awesome line? I could easily see another team (if he is UFA) going after him whole hog and seeing about half the production from him next year.

cotts1
01-19-2010, 05:55 PM
Here is my thing about Edwards.... yeah he looks great. He almost devoured Stafford in our first game against Minny. Very active in the pass rush. But the question on everyone's mind needs to be, "How does he play when he no longer has Williams, Williams, and Allen to his left?" Is he still going to be as productive? Is he more a product this year of being the 4th guy on an awesome line? I could easily see another team (if he is UFA) going after him whole hog and seeing about half the production from him next year.

You could also argue that there just arn't enough sacks to go around on that front 4. You can watch Edwards and see he has the very real potential of being an all-pro DE with or without Allen and Williamsx2. If he becomes unrestricted I don't see him going back to Minny.

I think we all agree you must build the majority of a team through the draft, but some of your team needs to be built via FA. You cannot wait to solve an entire teams woe's via the draft. It takes too long and doesn't even guarantee you will end up being good anyway. If we are lucky enough to be able to upgrade a position in FA with a young guy who has shown promise, we should do it.....Is everyone off the Kyle Vanden Bosch bandwagon now? I wouldn't mind him if he's all we can end up getting....contract within reason of course.

Scotty D
01-19-2010, 06:05 PM
I think we all agree you must build the majority of a team through the draft, but some of your team needs to be built via FA. You cannot wait to solve an entire teams woe's via the draft. It takes too long and doesn't even guarantee you will end up being good anyway. If we are lucky enough to be able to upgrade a position in FA with a young guy who has shown promise, we should do it.....Is everyone off the Kyle Vanden Bosch bandwagon now? I wouldn't mind him if he's all we can end up getting....contract within reason of course.

I think free agency is a big part of building a team. I think a good team makes one big free agent signing every year usually. I'm on the KVB bandwagon but I'm not sure if I would want him over Kampman. I think we need to come away with one of them.

Addict
01-19-2010, 06:08 PM
I think free agency is a big part of building a team. I think a good team makes one big free agent signing every year usually. I'm on the KVB bandwagon but I'm not sure if I would want him over Kampman. I think we need to come away with one of them.

Would be nice to have one of the two. Kampman would be very interested in returning to a 4-3 team I imagine.

Scotty D
01-19-2010, 06:13 PM
Would be nice to have one of the two. Kampman would be very interested in returning to a 4-3 team I imagine.

Very interested in returning to a 4-3 and I think he'd like to play Green Bay two times a year. I think he felt disrespected with the move to a 3-4 and is not leaving there on good terms. I think Chicago will go after him hard as well.

Addict
01-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Very interested in returning to a 4-3 and I think he'd like to play Green Bay two times a year. I think he felt disrespected with the move to a 3-4 and is not leaving there on good terms. I think Chicago will go after him hard as well.

I really think the Panthers will try hard to get him. For some reason that makes so much sense to me. They have no first round pick so they need to add players through FA

Scotty D
01-19-2010, 06:19 PM
I really think the Panthers will try hard to get him. For some reason that makes so much sense to me. They have no first round pick so they need to add players through FA

Well when you bring up the Panthers you're opening the Julius Pepper's pandora box. They have a difficult decision to make with him. They could franchise him for $20 mil next year, work out a long term deal, or let him hit the open market. What would you guys think about Peppers?

noondog
01-19-2010, 06:32 PM
What would you guys think about Peppers?

No way he would ever consider Detroit imo, but the Lions should avoid him like the plague anyways. Too old and will want too much $$.

Addict
01-19-2010, 06:41 PM
Well when you bring up the Panthers you're opening the Julius Pepper's pandora box. They have a difficult decision to make with him. They could franchise him for $20 mil next year, work out a long term deal, or let him hit the open market. What would you guys think about Peppers?

Peppers would be way too expensive. Besides I remember him wanting to play in a 3-4, I can't imagine if he is a free agent him going to another 4-3 team.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-19-2010, 07:30 PM
Peppers will have far better offers from playoff contenders that he would take before listened to the Lions.

cotts1
01-19-2010, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't mind Kampman either.....There was a time when I would have done almost anything to get Peppers on the Lions.....

noondog
01-20-2010, 01:08 AM
I wouldn't mind Kampman either.....There was a time when I would have done almost anything to get Peppers on the Lions.....

Maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Kampman is a much better target for a myriad of reasons.

SINCE1978
01-20-2010, 11:36 AM
I would add Dunta Robinson to that list if he's let go by the Texans. I think he's a player we could get to come to Detroit and would immediately upgrade our secondary. He's also young enough to grow with the core of the team.

YEah he could work out but why would Hosuton "let him go"? They are not exactly loaded in hte defensive secondary? Just a thought ... I like your idea of a FA young to grow wit the core. ;o)

Here is my thing about Edwards.... yeah he looks great. He almost devoured Stafford in our first game against Minny. Very active in the pass rush. But the question on everyone's mind needs to be, "How does he play when he no longer has Williams, Williams, and Allen to his left?" Is he still going to be as productive? Is he more a product this year of being the 4th guy on an awesome line? I could easily see another team (if he is UFA) going after him whole hog and seeing about half the production from him next year.

One could wonder ... Although Bart Scott ripped away from Rey Lewis & that Blatimore D is doing just fine with David Harris next to him in NYJ! ;o) If we get an Edwards/Kampman & draft Suh/McCoy with Hill's year #2 maturation it would have the building blocks of a very nice Dline. Not Minnesota's yet but it would be nice.

noondog
01-20-2010, 12:21 PM
YEah he could work out but why would Hosuton "let him go"? They are not exactly loaded in hte defensive secondary? Just a thought ... I like your idea of a FA young to grow wit the core. ;o)

Robinson and the Texans have had disputes over the past couple of years over his contract. Houston ended up franchising him last year which really pissed Robinson off. I found a rea\l quick article from last February which sort of chronicles the rift a little:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6269456.html

So as of right now, Houston hasn't agreed to a long-term contract with Dunta. He even held out of their entire training camp hoping to get it. I doubt that Houston franchises him again, ergo the likelyhood of him walking is very high.

I should add that I believe that he would now be a UFA, meaning no compensation to the Texans.

Prowler
01-20-2010, 03:01 PM
do franchise tags still exist with no bargaining agreement?

Scotty D
01-20-2010, 03:14 PM
do franchise tags still exist with no bargaining agreement?

Actually I think they let you use 2 franchise tags with no CBA

SINCE1978
01-20-2010, 03:20 PM
If Dunta is a UFA sounds okay by me to sign by Detroit. Can he tackle?

noondog
01-20-2010, 04:55 PM
do franchise tags still exist with no bargaining agreement?

I just don't think that the Texans will franchise him again. He would cost $10-$11 mil at least, not to mention the further damage it would cause between Dunta and the organization. He either signs long-term or walks imo. The distraction he would cause by being franchised again would likely be reason enough for the Texans to let him go.

He's an ok tackler, but a great cover man. He still has plenty of Pro Bowl calibre years left in him.

Addict
01-20-2010, 06:09 PM
I was thinking if one of the first-round CB somehow makes it to round two (not expecting that to happen, but it could be, right?) well do we take one there, or do we pray that we get lucky enough to draft the top guy next year?

noondog
01-20-2010, 06:17 PM
I was thinking if one of the first-round CB somehow makes it to round two (not expecting that to happen, but it could be, right?) well do we take one there, or do we pray that we get lucky enough to draft the top guy next year?

I'd like to see Donovan Warren if he falls to round 2. Arenas or Wilson in the third if he's not would also be good.

Scotty D
01-20-2010, 07:14 PM
I'd like to see Donovan Warren if he falls to round 2. Arenas or Wilson in the third if he's not would also be good.

2nd round - Brandon Graham, DE
3rd round - Donovan Warren, CB

;)

noondog
01-21-2010, 10:37 AM
2nd round - Brandon Graham, DE
3rd round - Donovan Warren, CB

;)

I wish, but we won't get that lucky. Graham and Warren could both easily be taken in the first. Just having one of them fall to us in the second would be great.

Addict
01-21-2010, 10:39 AM
what's the dunlap situation sounding like these days? I know not too long ago there was some talk of him falling out the first...

noondog
01-21-2010, 10:51 AM
what's the dunlap situation sounding like these days? I know not too long ago there was some talk of him falling out the first...

Scott Wright has him at #18 on his overall ranking board..."Freakish physical tools and talent but is still raw and inconsistent".

I see Dunlap as a better version of Michael Johnson in this draft. Measurables are off the charts, but performance doesn't match up as well as it should. It will be interesting to see where he goes, but falling out of the first wouldn't surprise me at all.

Addict
01-21-2010, 10:58 AM
Scott Wright has him at #18 on his overall ranking board..."Freakish physical tools and talent but is still raw and inconsistent".

I see Dunlap as a better version of Michael Johnson in this draft. Measurables are off the charts, but performance doesn't match up as well as it should. It will be interesting to see where he goes, but falling out of the first wouldn't surprise me at all.

I wouldn't mind him as our second round pick to be honest. Yeah he's inconsistent, but it's not like we've got any superstars at DE and Dunlap at least has the potential to be a star at the position.

noondog
01-21-2010, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't mind him as our second round pick to be honest. Yeah he's inconsistent, but it's not like we've got any superstars at DE and Dunlap at least has the potential to be a star at the position.

My only "burn me once" sort of reaction to that is I don't want to see Kalimba Edwards V2.0. Similar to how many felt about drafting Stafford after Harrington in a way. Having said that, look at Staff now...

Addict
01-21-2010, 11:47 AM
My only "burn me once" sort of reaction to that is I don't want to see Kalimba Edwards V2.0. Similar to how many felt about drafting Stafford after Harrington in a way. Having said that, look at Staff now...

Injured with a QB rating below 70? Because that's not a whole lot unlike Joey.

But seriously, I see your point. Thing is sometimes you need to take a few risks in building a team. You can't have only first rounders.

noondog
01-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Injured with a QB rating below 70? Because that's not a whole lot unlike Joey.

But seriously, I see your point. Thing is sometimes you need to take a few risks in building a team. You can't have only first rounders.

I know you get my drift...Stafford will be big-time if we can keep him healthy and buy him time.

I know that it's not practical to build with only first round picks. The thing I loved about last year's draft was the quality of players we got in rounds 2 through 7. THAT'S where we need to hit and build off. Thus, a player like Dunlap in round two could easily misfire ala Kalimba, which would make me nervous about drafting him...I'd prefer a more blue chip prospect at this point in rounds 2 and 3.

cotts1
01-21-2010, 01:13 PM
I don't see Dunlap falling out of the first unless he truly bombs at the combine and pro-day. If he is available at 34 I wouldn't mind taking him if Mayhew and Schwartz feel they can get the best out of him. In reality Kalimba Edwards and Dunlap are nothing alike....I don't see where you are drawing the comparisons between the two other than they both are DE's.

SINCE1978
01-21-2010, 01:25 PM
I know you get my drift...Stafford will be big-time if we can keep him healthy and buy him time.

I know that it's not practical to build with only first round picks. The thing I loved about last year's draft was the quality of players we got in rounds 2 through 7. THAT'S where we need to hit and build off. Thus, a player like Dunlap in round two could easily misfire ala Kalimba, which would make me nervous about drafting him...I'd prefer a more blue chip prospect at this point in rounds 2 and 3.

AND BUY (DRAFT) HIM A DEFENSE!! ;o)

P-L
01-21-2010, 02:11 PM
I could possibly see Dunlap falling out of the first, but the talk of him slipping to the third that was floating around at one point is just silly.

WMD
01-21-2010, 02:19 PM
I sort of expect Greg Hardy to fall to the third. I don't think Dunlap will make it past the middle of the 2nd Round though.

cotts1
01-21-2010, 05:27 PM
Yea I mean I would be willing to take Hardy at 34, but if he ended up falling to us in the 3rd I would be elated.

Suh/McCoy with Dunlap/Hardy would be a great start.

noondog
01-21-2010, 05:54 PM
I don't see Dunlap falling out of the first unless he truly bombs at the combine and pro-day. If he is available at 34 I wouldn't mind taking him if Mayhew and Schwartz feel they can get the best out of him. In reality Kalimba Edwards and Dunlap are nothing alike....I don't see where you are drawing the comparisons between the two other than they both are DE's.

If you give it a little thought in the context of taking Dunlap in the second, there are lots of similarities.

Edwards was a second round pick with great measurables just like Dunlap (albeit Dunlap has more talent than Kalimba did). Nonetheless, Edwards was a great prospect in his own right, with the biggest knock against him being his inconsistency and work ethic...same as Dunlap.

So in hindsight, what did we get from Kalimba? Inconsistency and never living up to his potential. Ergo, I'd rather take someone who is more blue-chip and works hard.

Hardy isn't worth the risk with his injury history imo. That's just asking for trouble. There will be a lot of great talent to be had when we pick in the second...I don't see a reason to take a chance on a player with issues.

Scotty D
01-21-2010, 08:20 PM
Antonio Cromartie is apparently on the block per some Charger's fans. I don't know if I'd give up that early second for him and I don't think they would take a third.

WMD
01-21-2010, 08:52 PM
Antonio Cromartie is apparently on the block per some Charger's fans. I don't know if I'd give up that early second for him and I don't think they would take a third.
Uhh I'd give them Cliff Avril for Cromartie.

SINCE1978
01-21-2010, 09:12 PM
Ernie, Ernie, Ernie ... hahahaha!!

cotts1
01-22-2010, 12:50 AM
I mean I guess, Edwards' only real potential was as a pass rusher. Dunlap is 6-6 290 and runs like a LB. He can be a 3 down DE who has speed and power.....just gotta get his head straight first.

cotts1
01-22-2010, 12:52 AM
I wouldn't give up our 2nd for Cromartie...3rd with the condition he signs an extension with us.

noondog
01-22-2010, 03:30 AM
I mean I guess, Edwards' only real potential was as a pass rusher. Dunlap is 6-6 290 and runs like a LB. He can be a 3 down DE who has speed and power.....just gotta get his head straight first.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Edwards came out at 6'5.5", 265 and ran a 4.71 sec 40. He was projected as an every down DE, not a pass rush specialist, with a mid first round grade. He fell to the top of the second for the same reasons that Dunlap is currently being criticized for.

Having said that, do you REALLY want the Lions to spend a second round pick on someone who has to get their head straight first? We can't afford to miss on that pick, and Dunlap would be a little too iffy for my liking...the same way Michael Johnson would have been too iffy for me last year despite his measurables.

StorminNorman
01-22-2010, 01:04 PM
Uhh I'd give them Cliff Avril for Cromartie.

I wouldn't.

cotts1
01-22-2010, 02:05 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. Edwards came out at 6'5.5", 265 and ran a 4.71 sec 40. He was projected as an every down DE, not a pass rush specialist, with a mid first round grade. He fell to the top of the second for the same reasons that Dunlap is currently being criticized for.

Having said that, do you REALLY want the Lions to spend a second round pick on someone who has to get their head straight first? We can't afford to miss on that pick, and Dunlap would be a little too iffy for my liking...the same way Michael Johnson would have been too iffy for me last year despite his measurables.

I could tell from day 1 Kalimba's only chance was as a pass rush specialist. Don't know why he received such a high grade from scouts. He had such a bad motor among many other things.

That said, yes, there are other players I would prefer over Dunlap at 34. We'll see how he grades out at the combine though.

noondog
01-22-2010, 03:03 PM
I could tell from day 1 Kalimba's only chance was as a pass rush specialist. Don't know why he received such a high grade from scouts. He had such a bad motor among many other things.

Carlos Dunlap says hi. This is my point...I don't really care how he grades out at the combine...I'm sure it will be amazing. It's the intangibles that can't be graded out or measured which are the problem just like they were with Kalimba.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-22-2010, 03:34 PM
If we are going to project DE, I wouldn't mind Hardy. I think he is going to fall. I sure wish we had a couple extra picks in the 1st 3 rounds this year, that is for sure.

Splat
01-22-2010, 06:14 PM
Not a roster move but.

Lions lose a coach, add a coach (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/22/lions-lose-a-coach-add-a-coach/)

"Quarterbacks coach Jeff Horton is leaving the team to become offensive coordinator at the University of Minnesota, while Danny Crossman has been hired as special teams coordinator.

Scott Linehan will handle the day-to-day responsibilities of coaching the quarterbacks."

cotts1
01-22-2010, 06:44 PM
Carlos Dunlap says hi. This is my point...I don't really care how he grades out at the combine...I'm sure it will be amazing. It's the intangibles that can't be graded out or measured which are the problem just like they were with Kalimba.

Your missing my point. My point is that even if Kalimba had found his motor he still really only had a future as a pass rush specialist IMO. Dunlap can be a 3 down monster. It's the intangibles that are teachable. You can't teach someone to be a 6-6 290 freak of nature. It's the coaching staffs job to coach him up and get him ready to play.

noondog
01-22-2010, 06:56 PM
Your missing my point. My point is that even if Kalimba had found his motor he still really only had a future as a pass rush specialist IMO. Dunlap can be a 3 down monster. It's the intangibles that are teachable. You can't teach someone to be a 6-6 290 freak of nature. It's the coaching staffs job to coach him up and get him ready to play.

The thing is, I'm not missing your point. You are choosing to look at this through rose-colored glasses and I'm being pragmatic. Dunlap is not a player we can look at until the 3rd...classic case of opportunity cost.

Scotty D
01-22-2010, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the info Splat! Also last I heard the infamous Joe Cullen was getting hired by the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Prowler
01-23-2010, 06:39 AM
he'll enjoy spring break in jacksonville. lots of naked driving.

cotts1
01-23-2010, 12:01 PM
he'll enjoy spring break in jacksonville. lots of naked driving.

Actually, I think they drive naked year round in Jax....

StorminNorman
01-23-2010, 05:22 PM
The thing is, I'm not missing your point. You are choosing to look at this through rose-colored glasses and I'm being pragmatic. Dunlap is not a player we can look at until the 3rd...classic case of opportunity cost.

You think it's pragmatic to pass on a player with top 5 talent in the second round?

Dunlap's flaws - work ethic (which is a complaint that can be made about any defensive line prospect) and a DUI (one case in a 3 year COLLEGE career) are worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.

noondog
01-23-2010, 05:54 PM
You think it's pragmatic to pass on a player with top 5 talent in the second round?

Dunlap's flaws - work ethic (which is a complaint that can be made about any defensive line prospect) and a DUI (one case in a 3 year COLLEGE career) are worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.

If Dunlap falls to the second round DESPITE the fact that he is a top 5 talent, that raises some serious red flags imo. I understand the argument of risk-reward, but I just don't think that the Lions can afford to take a chance and increase the likelyhood of missing with their 2nd round pick at this point.

Scotty D
01-23-2010, 06:19 PM
You think it's pragmatic to pass on a player with top 5 talent in the second round?

Dunlap's flaws - work ethic (which is a complaint that can be made about any defensive line prospect) and a DUI (one case in a 3 year COLLEGE career) are worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.

You can't take such a risk with an early second. Those picks are some of the most valuable if you factor in contracts. NE would rather have a bunch of second rounders instead of a top ten pick. Work ethic and a DUI are two of the worst red flags you can have. I'd be shocked if we took him there.

Addict
01-24-2010, 05:56 PM
as long as we're on the subject of DE's, Kalimba's an easy target, how about Calais Campbell. Great size, great potential, production wasn't really there and complaints about his work ethic.

His stat line? 48 tackes, 7 sacks. He's a 3-4 DE, mind you.

See you can play that game any way you want to. Depends entirely on who you choose.

and as for sure things, there's no such thing. Clean college players get into trouble in the NFL all the time.

DoWnThEfiElD
01-24-2010, 09:41 PM
You think it's pragmatic to pass on a player with top 5 talent in the second round?

Dunlap's flaws - work ethic (which is a complaint that can be made about any defensive line prospect) and a DUI (one case in a 3 year COLLEGE career) are worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.

How is Dunlap a top 5 talent? He had one good year on a loaded defense. I never saw him refine any pass rush moves during his career. Had he not got his DUI I doubt he would have been a top 5 pick this year. I never saw him take over a big game. Look at which games he got sacks, they were never against elite teams. Dunlap is so overrated because of his physical stature, he never had near the production that would warrant a top 5 pick.

DrunkenLament
01-25-2010, 01:39 AM
You think it's pragmatic to pass on a player with top 5 talent in the second round?

Dunlap's flaws - work ethic (which is a complaint that can be made about any defensive line prospect) and a DUI (one case in a 3 year COLLEGE career) are worth the risk of a 2nd round pick.

A DUI is a non factor with the Schwartz, hes not afraid to draft players with "questionable" characters. But he hasn't improved over the last two years, has had poor performances in the SEC, not to mention the only potential first round OT from the SEC is Joseph Barksdale who should be on LSU's Blindside this year. But besides that, he has horrible technique, takes more plays off than Big Baby, and is eerily similar to Vernon Gholston.

cotts1
01-25-2010, 08:15 AM
How is Dunlap a top 5 talent? He had one good year on a loaded defense. I never saw him refine any pass rush moves during his career. Had he not got his DUI I doubt he would have been a top 5 pick this year. I never saw him take over a big game. Look at which games he got sacks, they were never against elite teams. Dunlap is so overrated because of his physical stature, he never had near the production that would warrant a top 5 pick.

I agree he is not a top 5 talent. Though Dunlap still has loads of potential . As I have said, he would not be my optimal choice at 34 but I wouldn't necessarily be upset if we took him.

zachsaints52
01-25-2010, 10:42 AM
Whats with pragmatic being thrown around? :)

noondog
01-25-2010, 11:57 AM
Whats with pragmatic being thrown around? :)

I used it in proper defintion (matter-of-fact) when describing how I look at Dunlap as a prospect and it kind of went sideways from there.

Nice win yesterday by the way.

Scotty D
01-27-2010, 07:11 PM
Cowboys fan has posted that a Dallas writer has said that Marion Barber could be on the trading block. Thoughts?

Prowler
01-27-2010, 07:22 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/333593-cowboys-cowboys-to-cut-rb-marion-barber

by GridironFans.com Correspondent
The case to cut Marion Barber is simple: The Cowboys can get similar production from Tashard Choice for less than one-tenth of the price. Jerry Jones told reporters at the Senior Bowl that money won't be a determining factor on whether Barber will be back next season. This isn't about bashing Barber, whose production has dropped drastically since he signed a seven-year, $45 million deal and became the Cowboys' starter but If it was, we'd point out that he's injury prone and disturbingly ineffective in short-yardage situations for a back whose game is based on power.

Source: ESPN

i'd take him for free. if we like him then lowball an offer of 6th round pick but we'll be stuck with his contract. which we can actually afford but it would go against the philosophy of spending slowly. trading sims would help or dumping julian.

Scotty D
01-27-2010, 07:27 PM
They might cut him? I'd definitely take him then. Definitely a guy I'm going to keep my eye on. Maybe they'd take Julian as a pass rusher! hahah.

Prowler
01-27-2010, 07:41 PM
the barbarian could definitely use a change of scenery and he would really play hard against minnesota twice a year.

cotts1
01-30-2010, 01:06 AM
KVB comin' to the D?

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/lionsblog/index.php?blogid=2002

DoWnThEfiElD
01-30-2010, 01:39 AM
Cowboys fan has posted that a Dallas writer has said that Marion Barber could be on the trading block. Thoughts?

If we get an RB I want a home run hitter. That is why I like Jahvid Best so much, we need a guy that can take it to the house with any touch.

Splat
02-04-2010, 05:49 PM
How did Larry Foote play for you guys this year the Chiefs could use a 3-4 ILB?

DoWnThEfiElD
02-04-2010, 05:53 PM
How did Larry Foote play for you guys this year the Chiefs could use a 3-4 ILB?

He was fine. Hard to stand out for him on such a terrible defense.

Prowler
02-04-2010, 05:57 PM
i think he'll still be starter quality. on his way to becoming kendrell bell but still has another year in him or so.

cotts1
02-04-2010, 06:51 PM
I love Larry, he is solid against the run, but somewhat of a liability in coverage. He's lost a step but he is still serviceable.

Scotty D
02-05-2010, 04:35 AM
Who wants some LT?

noondog
02-05-2010, 07:51 AM
Who wants some LT?

I actually brought this up several weeks ago. I think it could be a useful pick-up for the short term provided the price is right. Having said and in reading some recent LT interviews, it is becoming apparent that he wants a Super Bowl ring before he retires, ergo the Lions may not be in his wheelhouse.

SINCE1978
02-05-2010, 11:11 AM
The price will NOT be right for return on investment with LT. He's toast. If we were "that one player away" maybe ... but imho better to go with a rookie from the draft or an up & comer like LenDale White or Jarius Norwood type back who has been caught up in the backlash of just not being a fit for his current team. If that is the route, he needs to have tread left on his tires. LT is 1 cut/juke away from walking with a limp the rest of his adult life.

LT would put butts in the seats at Ford Field, that's about it. No thansk, not what I'm looking for here.

Prowler
02-05-2010, 12:44 PM
his first few years i always thought of LT as a horse and tough as anything. but lately he isn't as quick or durable, and he whines like a 14 year old girl. "they are stomping on my field!!NO!!!my team won't overpay me!!NO!!life is so unfair when i'm franchised!!

his personality isn't suited for detroit anymore.

cotts1
02-05-2010, 02:23 PM
Yea i'm str8 on LT...

Addict
02-05-2010, 05:08 PM
I actually brought this up several weeks ago. I think it could be a useful pick-up for the short term provided the price is right. Having said and in reading some recent LT interviews, it is becoming apparent that he wants a Super Bowl ring before he retires, ergo the Lions may not be in his wheelhouse.

may not? If the guy wants a ring our wheelhouse is what to LT what a heat wave is to snow.

noondog
02-05-2010, 05:21 PM
may not? If the guy wants a ring our wheelhouse is what to LT what a heat wave is to snow.

I say "may not" because if dude really wants a championship, why wouldn't he stay with the Chargers? They have the pieces to make runs for the next few years. He's not willing to take a pay cut to stay.

Sooooo, although he says he wants a championship, there are a lot of signs pointing to him wanting another big payday more. For the record, I'm not one of those who think that he's worth giving a big contract to...especially when it comes to the Leos. Having said this, who's to say that he will even be sought after at all? I don't think anyone will be banging his door down to sign him. All this to say that him coming to Detroit is not an impossibility...just very near it.

Personally, I think he ends up in Dallas (especially if Barber is let go) or Houston. His home state is beckoning.

Scotty D
02-06-2010, 09:54 AM
PFT reports that OT Tra Thomas and WR Torry Holt are expected to be released by the Jaguars on Monday.

Holt had a productive year last year with 51 catches for 722 yards

DoWnThEfiElD
02-06-2010, 11:17 AM
There was also a report on ESPN that Osi Umenyiora could want to be traded. He could be an interesting pick up, depending on the price.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-06-2010, 12:33 PM
PFT reports that OT Tra Thomas and WR Torry Holt are expected to be released by the Jaguars on Monday.

Holt had a productive year last year with 51 catches for 722 yards

I'd take Holt for the Lions. Stopgap of course but does make our receiving core better, moves Bryant to the slot and we go from there. Hope they pursue him but I could see Holt in Chicago with Martz there now.

Tra Thomas wouldn't hurt either as a stop gap backup LT. At least a decent backup LT which we have never had, but Thomas probably wants to start after being replaced by Monroe. Depends on how much money he wants and if other teams think he could be a starter. If Thomas is impressive though, we could try Backus at LG if we fail to get a guard in the offseason. But thats a little risky since I don't think Backus is strong enough for guard.

Of course, Lions will probably end up with neither but they would upgrade our team.

Scotty D
02-09-2010, 04:08 PM
http://www.freep.com/article/20100209/SPORTS01/100209038/1049/rss14

The Detroit Lions have signed running back DeDe Dorsey ... at least according to his Twitter account.

Dorsey this afternoon tweeted these comments a few minutes apart:

3-D fans.....I am the newest member of........The Detroit Lions....Motown here I come! I can't wait to get out there and do my thing!!! 3-D

Back to the Jungle....I was a Lindenwood Lion in College and now I am a Detroit Lion in the NFL...makes sense!!! 3-D

Dorsey, 25, has played 29 career NFL games. He played 13 as a rookie with the Colts in 2006, then spent the past three seasons with the Bengals. Much of his time was spent on special teams, however. He has just 26 career NFL rushes for 191 yards (7.3 average).

DoWnThEfiElD
02-09-2010, 05:55 PM
Dorsey was pretty good in the Hard Knocks show last fall.

Shane P. Hallam
02-09-2010, 06:34 PM
Lions working out Donte Stallworth tomorrow.

noondog
02-09-2010, 06:52 PM
I was actually thinking about Stallworth to the Lions when he got re-instated yesterday or whatev. I'm kinda meh about him.

Scotty D
02-09-2010, 07:05 PM
Lions working out Donte Stallworth tomorrow.
I'm the type that goes for talent and doesn't really care about character problems so I'm on board with it. We have one WR as far as I'm concerned and I think Stallworth is going to be highly motivated.

Calvin & Kevin
02-09-2010, 07:58 PM
My only problem with Stallworth is, he's not all that good. Reminds me of last year signing Bryant Johnson, a guy who sounds good on paper but can't do what we need him to do.

Prowler
02-09-2010, 09:00 PM
i can't stand stallworth. plus he didn't even play last year. chances are he'll just end up injured this year and be a waste. i'd prefer a 4th rounder over him.

Prowler
02-10-2010, 09:46 AM
i think we need to be bigger players in the anquan boldin market. there are rumors that the cards want a 2nd round pick and the dolphins are probably only willing to offer their 3rd. well our 3rd is a better deal and boldin would be better than shipley or whatever wr is on the board in the 3rd plus we wouldn't have to worry about developing an ineffective rookie wr. he would do wonders for stafford with his ability to go over the middle and help stafford's confidence.

noondog
02-10-2010, 10:05 AM
i think we need to be bigger players in the anquan boldin market. there are rumors that the cards want a 2nd round pick and the dolphins are probably only willing to offer their 3rd. well our 3rd is a better deal and boldin would be better than shipley or whatever wr is on the board in the 3rd plus we wouldn't have to worry about developing an ineffective rookie wr. he would do wonders for stafford with his ability to go over the middle and help stafford's confidence.

I would be more open to giving up a 2011 3rd personally. I think that this year's draft is too deep and we can get an impact player who can contribute immediately this year, whereas next year, we'll have fewer (albeit still many) holes to fill, making the pick slightly more expendable.

Btw C&K, good comparison of Stallworth vs B Johnson. My thoughts exactly.

Scotty D
02-10-2010, 11:08 AM
I'd give up a 2011 2nd for Boldin + Julian Peterson!

Prowler
02-10-2010, 11:16 AM
peterson is multi-scheme friendly and could be valuable to a hybrid type defense in arizona.

familyguy555
02-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Wouldn't Boldin want to be a number one receiver?

SINCE1978
02-10-2010, 03:59 PM
I'd give up a 2011 2nd for Boldin + Julian Peterson!

Wow that is steep collateral imho! How about Peterson + a 2011 3rd rounder? I like the deferment to 2011 drafts (since there may not even be one if a CBA is not reached) but if there is one, odds are good we pick pretty high in round 2 (top 10) so it would be the #42 overall pick. I just hate seeing us trading 2nd round picks. It seems the most bang for buck is here in every draft. Talent is still excellent & contracts are managable in hte 30-50 range.

Boldin is tough as nails, I think he would remain a solid #2 in Detroit, but I Agree with familyguy below ... what's his motivation to come from a warm weathered, divison contender to a loser to remain the #2 option? If it's $$, not sure that I want him anyway. Just think'n ...

Wouldn't Boldin want to be a number one receiver?

Prowler
02-10-2010, 04:23 PM
lucky for us he won't have much choice in the matter if we offer the best deal for him. i would offer him a nice big 4 year deal that would be partly offset with trading peterson's contract away. the weather part of the argument kills us but teamwise leinart and chad henne aren't exactly peyton manning. boldin should be content with stafford.

Addict
02-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Wouldn't Boldin want to be a number one receiver?

plus demand an insane amount of money. I'm not comfortable putting that much money in a position where we already have Calvin's salary to support. That money (well, at least in the salary cap system) has to come from somewhere else, and WR is one of the few spots where we have SOME talent.

Notredameleo
02-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Really? You guys wouldn't offer a second for a top 15 YOUNG receiver? He will make a much bigger impact than any second round pick we would get.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-11-2010, 09:46 AM
Really? You guys wouldn't offer a second for a top 15 YOUNG receiver? He will make a much bigger impact than any second round pick we would get.

Yah but we would have to give him a FAT contract. Not sure if that is in our best interest right now.

zachsaints52
02-11-2010, 10:23 AM
If you get Stallworth, youd be my 2nd favorite team :) I've always been a big Stallworth fan, he is actually the reason I became a Saints fan. The only thinking you have to worry about with him is his Hamstring. If you have a full season outta him, I could see atleast a 700yard 8 td type season.

Prowler
02-11-2010, 12:17 PM
boldin has been playing on a 4 yr 22.75 mill deal.

larry fitz had signed a 4 yr 40 million deal with 30 guaranteed the year after anquan's.

julian peterson is due 7.5 million if he stays.

trade peterson+3rd for boldin and sign boldin to 4 yr 40 million range contract. with inflation it would actually still be a deal for us if it were 4 yr 45 million.

we'd get an impact free agent at a position of need with minimal risk and negligible financial impact. we'd still be building through the draft without completely blowing our cap/cash supply since we'd be offsetting veteran contracts. plus they should get a boost from ticket and jersey sales.

noondog
02-11-2010, 12:32 PM
I'm on board with familyguy and since1978...I don't see Anquan going anywhere unless it's to be THE man, not second fiddle. Detroit won't be an option and I wouldn't really want him anyways. Has a Prima Donna quality about him that I don't dig.

Prowler
02-11-2010, 01:23 PM
and i'm in the ''stallworth should be in jail right now'' camp. i hope he is washed up and we see no talent when we work him out because i don't want him on the lions. mayhew has to do his job and evaluate whether or not stallworth can help this team. so i can accept his decision, but i'm not a fan of the decision if they end up signing him.

noondog
02-11-2010, 01:55 PM
and i'm in the ''stallworth should be in jail right now'' camp. i hope he is washed up and we see no talent when we work him out because i don't want him on the lions. mayhew has to do his job and evaluate whether or not stallworth can help this team. so i can accept his decision, but i'm not a fan of the decision if they end up signing him.

Word. Agree 100%.

SINCE1978
02-11-2010, 04:11 PM
and i'm in the ''stallworth should be in jail right now'' camp. i hope he is washed up and we see no talent when we work him out because i don't want him on the lions. mayhew has to do his job and evaluate whether or not stallworth can help this team. so i can accept his decision, but i'm not a fan of the decision if they end up signing him.

I agree.

Stallworth is 29, which is not exactly young for a WR who was out of the league last year. Also, he has been on 4 teams in 4 years and had 1 productive year in his career like 3 years ago! I'll pass ...

I also agree with this ...
"Signing a bunch of older free agents to late-career deals does not improve a bad team" Don Banks in his article today on SI.com about the Lions) Bryant Johnson & Dennis Northcutt were hacks. (to additionally prove my point; Buchanon, Foote & Peterson did not exactly light the world on fire either!) I would gladly take Jordan Shipley or Andre Roberts in rd 3 over a douchetard like Stallworth. I am leaning towards Detorit taking a WR & RB wit h2 of their top 4 picks. DT & CB woudl be the other 2 picks.

tblain1
02-17-2010, 10:54 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4920302

Cromartie being shopped by SD for a RB. Too bad we don't have a RB.

zachsaints52
02-17-2010, 11:18 AM
I would gladly take Jordan Shipley or Andre Roberts in rd 3 over a douchetard like Stallworth.

I would love to know how Stallworth is a "douchetard"? Because he hit a guy? Everyone said it was the mans fault for getting hit, Stallworth just happened to be drunk at the time. He also gave the family money to help them with their losses, would a "douchetard" do that? The main knocking point on Donte' is he is injury prone, but he is was a very good WR when he played. Is he still good? Noone knows. But to say his character is bad because of that incident is ludicrous.

Addict
02-17-2010, 11:22 AM
I would love to know how Stallworth is a "douchetard"? Because he hit a guy? Everyone said it was the mans fault for getting hit, Stallworth just happened to be drunk at the time. He also gave the family money to help them with their losses, would a "douchetard" do that? The main knocking point on Donte' is he is injury prone, but he is was a very good WR when he played. Is he still good? Noone knows. But to say his character is bad because of that incident is ludicrous.

He hardly ever does play. Has he ever even played through a season without going down with injuries?

Prowler
02-17-2010, 12:03 PM
I would love to know how Stallworth is a "douchetard"? Because he hit a guy? Everyone said it was the mans fault for getting hit, Stallworth just happened to be drunk at the time. He also gave the family money to help them with their losses, would a "douchetard" do that? The main knocking point on Donte' is he is injury prone, but he is was a very good WR when he played. Is he still good? Noone knows. But to say his character is bad because of that incident is ludicrous.

i'm only going to post this once since this is a lions discussion and not stallworth

the reason why drunk driving is illegal is because it impairs your judgement and slows down reaction time. things like flashing your lights instead of stepping on the brakes happen when you are drunk. the guy stallworth hit didn't want to commit suicide. stallworth choose to drive drunk in the morning and wasn't able to react in time to avoid hitting the guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0c/Macarthurcauseway.jpg/800px-Macarthurcauseway.jpg
is a picture of MacArthur Causeway.
he was driving 50mph in a 40 which i would have done also but he was drunk.
Facts: 1 he was drunk .12 level
2 he was speeding
3 stallworth saw the guy and flashed his lights
4 its a 6 lane freeway with lots of room to maneuver

nobody knows exactly what happened except for donte but i'm willing to go out on a limb and agree that he's a douchetard.

with that said i'm sorry, i experienced a similar thing with marvin harrison recently.

hopefully he'll work to be a better person, but having a murder/death on your hands is still a black mark against him.

zachsaints52
02-17-2010, 02:05 PM
He hardly ever does play. Has he ever even played through a season without going down with injuries?

2004, 2005, 2007 he went all 16 games, and as I posted which you quoted I said that was the only knock on him.


i'm only going to post this once since this is a lions discussion and not stallworth

the reason why drunk driving is illegal is because it impairs your judgement and slows down reaction time. things like flashing your lights instead of stepping on the brakes happen when you are drunk. the guy stallworth hit didn't want to commit suicide. stallworth choose to drive drunk in the morning and wasn't able to react in time to avoid hitting the guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0c/Macarthurcauseway.jpg/800px-Macarthurcauseway.jpg
is a picture of MacArthur Causeway.
he was driving 50mph in a 40 which i would have done also but he was drunk.
Facts: 1 he was drunk .12 level
2 he was speeding
3 stallworth saw the guy and flashed his lights
4 its a 6 lane freeway with lots of room to maneuver

nobody knows exactly what happened except for donte but i'm willing to go out on a limb and agree that he's a douchetard.

with that said i'm sorry, i experienced a similar thing with marvin harrison recently.

hopefully he'll work to be a better person, but having a murder/death on your hands is still a black mark against him.


So because of one incident he is a douchetard? Should we call Leonard Little, Vick, and others douchetards for what they have done? I know what he did was wrong, theres no way to justify that. But to say he is a bad apple and all, theres no way to say that. I know he has done charity work for the Saints, and he was a very nice guy.

Scotty D
02-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Stallworth signed with the Ravens today.

zachsaints52
02-17-2010, 02:10 PM
Stallworth signed with the Ravens today.

Yeah saw that awhile ago, so back to the normal Lions whose not gonna sign/ whose gonna sign shenanigans.

Prowler
02-17-2010, 02:15 PM
i'm ready for some action on the lions front. the only articles that i've been reading lately have been about daunte getting a lawyer to help get him a starting gig someplace and northcutt going to harvard.

MATTYxICE
02-17-2010, 02:18 PM
Well the Ravens got their deep threat

noondog
02-17-2010, 05:45 PM
So because of one incident he is a douchetard? Should we call Leonard Little, Vick, and others douchetards for what they have done? I know what he did was wrong, theres no way to justify that. But to say he is a bad apple and all, theres no way to say that. I know he has done charity work for the Saints, and he was a very nice guy.[/QUOTE]

Ummmmm....YES. I can't even believe that anyone would take this position. He ******* killed a man because he was driving drunk, and you just want to kind of say "oh, well it was a bad decision but he's a good guy otherwise".

This is the thing that really pisses me off about pro athletes and other celebs...they think their **** doesn't stink and they happen to have the money to buy their way out of problems in lieu of being held accountable for their actions like a normal human being.

You think Stallworth gave the family money because he's such a swell fella with a huge heart? Please. He came to a settlement. He was paying them regardless. Get a ******* clue.

Sorry for being so angry about this, but I had a family member killed by a drunk driver, and this kind of ignorant ******** pisses me right off.

zachsaints52
02-17-2010, 06:00 PM
And I've had personal friends get killed by a drunk driver.... who was also a friend. Flipped the truck while intoxicated and my other friend fell out and the truck landed on him. I know what it feels like for this stuff to happen. But you really don't think they don't feel guilty about it at all? And yes, Donte' IS a good guy other then this one incident. You've never heard Donte' get into trouble other then this, and Im sorry I am not going to throw someone out after one very bad mistake. Should he have gotten more jail time? My friend didn't even get freaking jail time for what he did. Matter of fact he was playing high school football the next off season. But yeah I think they could have been harder on him, but to live with that for the rest of your life is something thats far worse then anything else.

noondog
02-17-2010, 06:22 PM
And I've had personal friends get killed by a drunk driver.... who was also a friend. Flipped the truck while intoxicated and my other friend fell out and the truck landed on him. I know what it feels like for this stuff to happen. But you really don't think they don't feel guilty about it at all? And yes, Donte' IS a good guy other then this one incident. You've never heard Donte' get into trouble other then this, and Im sorry I am not going to throw someone out after one very bad mistake. Should he have gotten more jail time? My friend didn't even get freaking jail time for what he did. Matter of fact he was playing high school football the next off season. But yeah I think they could have been harder on him, but to live with that for the rest of your life is something thats far worse then anything else.

The family of the man he killed says hi.

I'm not going to get into this anymore...I made my point.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-17-2010, 06:41 PM
The family of the man he killed says hi.

I'm not going to get into this anymore...I made my point.

I agree, personally to me Stallworth, Vick, and Little are all morons. Ya they paid their time, but they are still morons for what they did. Felons are morons to me, plain and simple. They had it all and are still stupid enough to screw it up, that kind of arrogance and ignorance amazes me.

noondog
02-18-2010, 12:17 AM
Back to the Lions, what about signing Willie Parker if we can get him for a couple of years at a decent price? I think he still has a little gas in the tank and could be a valuable addition.

Addict
02-18-2010, 02:34 AM
Back to the Lions, what about signing Willie Parker if we can get him for a couple of years at a decent price? I think he still has a little gas in the tank and could be a valuable addition.

to be honest I don't think Parker will be much good to us. He depended more on the Steelers' good line than anything else. Could be just me though.

Prowler
02-18-2010, 07:30 AM
he beats everything that we have at the moment but i don't think he has good enough hands for our offense.

woodnick
02-18-2010, 06:36 PM
Making Moves! No but seriously, this guy could contribute immediately on special teams and add a little depth as an OLB.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100218/SPORTS01/100218042/1320/Lions-claim-LB-off-waivers-from-Buffalo

Prowler
02-18-2010, 10:16 PM
he's always on my madden team. supposedly really fast.

SINCE1978
02-19-2010, 10:32 AM
DeDe Dorsey was also signed, a journeyman RB who I believe was playing in Canada? Curious to see if that signing + Aaron Brown/Maurice Morris will be enough for Schwartz & FO as a stop-gap until Kevin Smith returns? I am not sold on the lip service they speak of on Smith.

With that, I feel they draft a RB ie McCluster/McKnight/Blount in rd 3 or rd 4.

Thoughts?

noondog
02-19-2010, 10:55 AM
DeDe Dorsey was also signed, a journeyman RB who I believe was playing in Canada? Curious to see if that signing + Aaron Brown/Maurice Morris will be enough for Schwartz & FO as a stop-gap until Kevin Smith returns? I am not sold on the lip service they speak of on Smith.

With that, I feel they draft a RB ie McCluster/McKnight/Blount in rd 3 or rd 4.

Thoughts?

I agree. Establishing the run game is obviously a must for any team. The Lions desperately need it to help open up the passing game for Stafford and keep him from having 40 PA per game. I think that they add 2 more RB's in the offseason. Maybe a combination of a vet (Willie Parker as an example) and a rook (Blount) or something like that. Having said that, I'd cream if we got McCluster in round 3 or 4 and maybe even Blount in 5.

In unrelated news, here's an interesting article concerning free agency in an uncapped year:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816763fb&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Although there will be a lot of RFA's as a result of the uncapped year (assuming no labour agreement is reached), I think we'll see a LOT of quality players cut so teams can shed salary. We might see some surprise names in FA before all is said and done.

Addict
02-19-2010, 11:00 AM
he's always on my madden team. supposedly really fast.

Madden ay? I'm thinking about buying '10 once the price goes down. Is it better than 09 (wasn't crazy about 09)?

StorminNorman
02-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Madden ay? I'm thinking about buying '10 once the price goes down. Is it better than 09 (wasn't crazy about 09)?

Exponentially. 09 was terrible, '10 is the best football game ever made. It has a few glitches here, and All Madden is a load of BS - but highly recommended.

Prowler
02-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Exponentially. 09 was terrible, '10 is the best football game ever made. It has a few glitches here, and All Madden is a load of BS - but highly recommended.

fully agree. it reminded me of the final year of original xbox with shaun alexander. only with way better graphics and wide receivers can actually run routes along the sidelines. i played in 3 online franchises with friends and did about 6 years on one of them. turn fight for the fumble off. run dime fs blitz on every single play with dline shifted to left, corners in press coverage, and you as the blitzing safety. on offense stay in spread shotgun with speedsters in the slot(post corners is mostly money) and audibles for wr screen if the d is weak to a particular side(1 corner lined up right with 2 wr on right side). i beat all madden with 5 min quarters 108-13 once using that type of setup. you get constant free blitzer so they throw 12 picks and the spread offense is unstoppable provided you don't throw any type of curl.

and when i say that ashlee palmer was always on my team, he was always a 4th or 5th linebacker. hopefully he's good on special teams. i have zero first hand knowledge of him. stan kwan was just named buffalo's assistant special teams coach so it looks like a word of mouth type signing.

Prowler
02-22-2010, 07:26 PM
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100222/SPORTS0101/2220404/1126/rss14

delmas wins rookie of the year....lions rookie of the year as voted by detroit sports broadcasters association.

SINCE1978
02-22-2010, 08:36 PM
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100222/SPORTS0101/2220394/1004/sports/ESPN--Lions-a-logical-destination-for-running-back-Chester-Taylor

Yes please.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-22-2010, 09:29 PM
Heard a rumor Avril for Ted Ginn and 4th from Miami

DoWnThEfiElD
02-22-2010, 10:02 PM
Heard a rumor Avril for Ted Ginn and 4th from Miami


Link?? I would probably take that deal.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-22-2010, 10:21 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/messages/chrono/20181474/0/0/20181716

Best I could find. At the very least a Lions player for Ginn and a pick. May be Julian Peterson too. Just a rumor for now, shouldn't of posted but thought it was interesting to discuss at least.

SINCE1978
02-23-2010, 11:24 AM
Although it is highly unlikely this trade is happening since the source is unknown, it is still fun to just discuss it ...
I would pull the trigger on that trade. Ginn is the ideal size/speed of a WR compliment to CJ, & more draft picks!! I would think Ginn had more value than Avril? I would turn around & get Avril's replacement in DE George Selvie USF with that 4th round pick. Very similar players, even in body type. Athletic, speed guy with limited moves & just okay against the run but can really get to the QB on 3rd down.
Summary: Ted Ginn Jr & George Selvie for Cliff Avril, SOLD!

Addict
02-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Exponentially. 09 was terrible, '10 is the best football game ever made. It has a few glitches here, and All Madden is a load of BS - but highly recommended.

right so i'll get my mitts on '10 then. 09 really was horrid.

SINCE1978
02-23-2010, 08:02 PM
I know this may not be popular but whatever ... go start a Madden post if you're going to talk video games! Again, this "roster/free agency discussion" about the Lions.

Prowler
02-23-2010, 08:19 PM
i'd be down for ted 'i can't catch' ginn jr. our worst enemy is field position. stafford can't win if he's constantly starting out on the 20 yard line because the opposing team scored a touchdown. he needs a defense, a decent return man, and a second option in the passing game. ginn would complement johnson with his speed, since only a speed guy will keep the safeties back and allow calvin to be single covered.

Scotty D
02-24-2010, 09:41 AM
Sproles and Dunta Robinson expected to hit the market.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-24-2010, 10:47 AM
No thanks on Robinson. Zero picks last year with Mario Williams doing his thing. Had Pay Me written on his shoes directed to the GM. I don't think he'll be worth what he wants.

Addict
02-24-2010, 02:24 PM
Sproles and Dunta Robinson expected to hit the market.

darren sproles is a change of pace back. We have no pace.

Aard
02-25-2010, 08:20 PM
darren sproles is a change of pace back. We have no pace.

Heh. :)

Edit: Heh, heh heh. Apparently posts have to be at least 10 characters.

noondog
02-25-2010, 11:31 PM
Apparently RB Mike Bell will be hitting free agency...

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/02/25/are-saints-paving-path-for-tomlinson/

He could be a good pick-up.

woodnick
02-27-2010, 09:04 AM
Jahari Evans, OG, Saints did not receive a tender from the Champs...I would be willing to bet that he could play LG, but at the very least he would be a huge upgrade over Peterman.

noondog
02-27-2010, 01:54 PM
That would be too good to be true.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-27-2010, 02:34 PM
Jahari Evans, OG, Saints did not receive a tender from the Champs...I would be willing to bet that he could play LG, but at the very least he would be a huge upgrade over Peterman.

You know I'm all for exploring options in free agency. It just worries me that with no labor agreement we are going to be looking to over pay 29/30 year old unrestricted players. I'm not sure how worth it that is to us at this point in our rebuilding process.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Ok what about this:

-Trade NY Giants a 3rd this year and next year a conditional 3rd, maybe second, for Umeryiora.

-Maybe get VandenBosch, only if we get a decent deal, because he is a Pro Bowl caliber DE, who Schwatz may pay just because he knows him.

-Then we draft Suh or McCoy, and pair that will Hill and our D-Line would be crazy improved.

SINCE1978
02-27-2010, 09:13 PM
I like Evans at G ... one of the best. Which means he likely will not consider Detroit ;o) (especially after NO's magical season)
I know Umenyiora is proven but injuries & the benching in NY combined with him being 29 this season ... don't know?! I might hang onto that 3rd rounder & take a calculated gamble on a DE like Koa Misi, Alex Carrington, George Selvie or Lindsey Witten. Go younger, go cheeper ... a bit more in line with Mayhew/Schwartz plan it seems.

noondog
03-01-2010, 06:49 AM
To pick on another team, Karlos Dansby is going to be a FA and Antrel Rolle is supposedly about to be released. I'd like to see either one in Detroit.

woodnick
03-01-2010, 09:22 AM
To pick on another team, Karlos Dansby is going to be a FA and Antrel Rolle is supposedly about to be released. I'd like to see either one in Detroit.

Yeah, I'm pretty interested to see what Rolle's asking price is going to be, but he seems like a guy who would compliment Delmas pretty well at the safety spot.

Prowler
03-01-2010, 12:44 PM
i can see rolle in philly or san fran. him and cro would change our defense dramatically though. we'd actually have a real NFL defense.

StorminNorman
03-04-2010, 12:48 AM
If Q is available for a third round pick...how about this?

3/2 and 4/2
for
Boldin, 3/26 and 4/26.

Or, better yet, Boldin for a 3/5 pick after Cleveland wants to trade up to get Bradford.

SINCE1978
03-04-2010, 06:02 AM
Doubtful we get Boldin. I like the optimism however ;o)

woodnick
03-04-2010, 08:06 AM
If Q is available for a third round pick...how about this?

3/2 and 4/2
for
Boldin, 3/26 and 4/26.

Or, better yet, Boldin for a 3/5 pick after Cleveland wants to trade up to get Bradford.

With the way Boldin acted in Arizona because he played second fiddle to Fitz', I would think that he'd just be worse here in Detroit because he'd be second fiddle again to CJesus, not to mention that this is the last year of his contract and we probably wouldn't be able to resign him, so in essence we'd be giving up a probable starter(3rd round pick) for 1 year of a second WR.

So I would probably say no, but I do agree that getting a player like Boldin could probably really open up our Offense and help Stafford and CJ a lot.

noondog
03-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Here is my revised post-combine offseason mock...I'm assuming no trades at this point because they are SO hard to predict:

Free Agents

RB Thomas Jones
CB Dunta Robinson
DE Kyle VandenBosch
Miscellaneous plugs

Draft

1. DT Ndamukong Suh
2. RB Ryan Matthews
3. WR DeMaryius Thomas
4. T/G John Jerry

First and foremost, the RB position goes from a weakness to a strength. Jones and Matthews gives us bangers with some wheels. We would still have Morris and Smith who provide depth (moreso when Smith returns from injury) and gives us trade possibilities down the road without compromising the position. Matthews workload is limited as Jones will split carries and Morris getting a few touches as well, but is groomed as the feature back of the future.

Suh is Suh. Maybe it's McCoy. Whatevz. Happy place.

KVB gives us a veteran presence at DE who can be productive until we infuse some youth at the position down the road.

Bey-Bey will not work out at all prior to the draft imo, and would definitely be worth taking in round 3. Megatron and Bey-Bey could be a sick combo and Staff would have two game breaking targets at WR.

John Jerry solidifies the LG position. He has the ability to even rotate in at RT if need be.

Dunta gives us a solid cover corner provided he can stay healthy. I'm not so concerned with his tackling ability as long as he can rack up the P-Def's and INT's. If he has to tackle a lot, then he's not covering well.

Addict: Take it easy on me this time around bro.

woodnick
03-04-2010, 08:24 AM
I kind of find it funny that you think it is too hard to predict trades at this point but not free agent signings:) but I do understand why....at least with free agents we have a pretty decent idea of who is gonna be available.

I really like the idea of signing a vet like Thomas Jones and drafting a young stud RB like Mathews. I am truly under the mind set that it is extremely important for the development of a young QB you must have a good-great run game...it would alleviate a lot of pressure on Stafford and our Defense as we try to gather talent and depth on that side.

The concern with Thomas is his speed, but we won't be able to get a time on him...but on film he looks like he plays fast, kind of reminds me of Brandon Marshall so if we could get him in the 3rd that would be great, IMO.

LG is an obvious need and Jerry looks like he could fill that hole for us, he seems like he is having a great draft process, so he might be the exception among G's and rise up boards.

IMO, the only negative of this draft is that there wasn't much focus on D in the draft, but you solved some of those issues in the signings of KVB and Robinson...if we got these 2 RBs then we should dial up that phone and nake the deal with SD of Morris and 5th(maybe we could give a 6th instead) for Cromartie.

Scotty D
03-04-2010, 09:03 AM
I like pretty much all those players. The only thing is that if we sign Thomas Jones I don't think we'd need to draft a RB in the second. Love Matthews though.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-04-2010, 10:18 AM
Here are the Chicken Tenders for the Lions

Jason Hunter (2nd round tender)
Bullocks( 3rd round tender because Hunter got a 2nd)
Ko Simpson,Gandy,Ramirez(4th round tender)
Loper,Hobbs(right of first refusal)

Copeland Bryan and Cody Spender, they let walk.

SINCE1978
03-04-2010, 11:40 AM
Here is my revised post-combine offseason mock...I'm assuming no trades at this point because they are SO hard to predict:

Free Agents

RB Thomas Jones
CB Dunta Robinson
DE Kyle VandenBosch
Miscellaneous plugs

Draft

1. DT Ndamukong Suh
2. RB Ryan Matthews
3. WR DeMaryius Thomas
4. T/G John Jerry

First and foremost, the RB position goes from a weakness to a strength. Jones and Matthews gives us bangers with some wheels. We would still have Morris and Smith who provide depth (moreso when Smith returns from injury) and gives us trade possibilities down the road without compromising the position. Matthews workload is limited as Jones will split carries and Morris getting a few touches as well, but is groomed as the feature back of the future.

Suh is Suh. Maybe it's McCoy. Whatevz. Happy place.

KVB gives us a veteran presence at DE who can be productive until we infuse some youth at the position down the road.

Bey-Bey will not work out at all prior to the draft imo, and would definitely be worth taking in round 3. Megatron and Bey-Bey could be a sick combo and Staff would have two game breaking targets at WR.

John Jerry solidifies the LG position. He has the ability to even rotate in at RT if need be.

Dunta gives us a solid cover corner provided he can stay healthy. I'm not so concerned with his tackling ability as long as he can rack up the P-Def's and INT's. If he has to tackle a lot, then he's not covering well.

Addict: Take it easy on me this time around bro.

I like all your drafted players, I just have a feeling they want speedsters to compliment Pettigrew & Calvin on O so I like RB Jahvid Best #34 & WR Jacoby Ford #66. 2 of the fastest 40 times & both playmakers.

I do not agree on the Thomas Jones signing then drafting a RB. You can not have 5 RB's on roster (I mean you can but it's just not sensible) in Jones, Morris, Brown, Matthews & Smith ... Even with a mentioned trade, I think they either make a splash in the draft OR FA for a RB, not both.

Overall, I like the drafted players, just not as excited anymore about Dunta Robinson or Thomas Jones in FA.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
03-04-2010, 03:53 PM
We released Buchanon per Adam Schefter twitter.

styles44
03-04-2010, 04:11 PM
Sooooooooo we're definitely getting Robinson, Cromartie, or both then. No way we release him with no replacement in mind. No matter how much he fell out of favor with the staff. I can't wait 'til midnight!

styles44
03-04-2010, 04:24 PM
or Lito Sheppard or Marlin Jackson...

Sheppard was released, Jackson will not be tendered. Come back home Marlin!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4965912