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View Full Version : Regret taking Dbrick Ferguson?


GiantRutgersFan
03-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Personally, I think you guys should have taken Vernon Davis with the #4 pick.
Then take Mangold with the second first rounder, then Mcniel in the second...


thoughts?

Crickett
03-12-2007, 03:56 PM
Last year I wanted the Jets to take McNeil anyway and move him to RT.

But then again, I wanted the Jets to draft a LOT of offensive linemen.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Winston Justice
Nick Mangold
Marcus McNeil
Max Jean-Gilles
Ryan O'Callaghan
Jonathan Scott
Fred Matua

Other than McNeil AND Winston or O'Callaghan AND Gilles, I wanted the Jets to draft all of these guys. I saw OL as in that much need of help both in the starting lineup and depth.

Imagine if the Jets OL looked like this

D'Brick/Jones
Kendall/Moore
MangoldSmith
O'Callaghan/Matua
McNeil/Scott

That'd be insane (in a good way).

Non_Sequitur
03-12-2007, 03:57 PM
Personally, I think you guys should have taken Vernon Davis with the #4 pick.
Then take Mangold with the second first rounder, then Mcniel in the second...


thoughts?


Hindsight is 20/20, but no. No one regrets having a top tier LT locked up for the next 6 years at least. Especially considering we also got Mangold as you mentioned, then a 2nd rounder this year (which turned into Thomas Jones and a lte 2nd rounder) and a 1st round talent Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round.

I'll take:
D'Brick
Mangold
Thomas Jones
Kellen
and a late 2nd rounder

over:
Vernon Davis
Mangold
McNeil.




Plus, as I said, hind-sight is 20/20. Every team could have drafted better. I wish we took Colston in the early 2nd day so he was on our team instead of the Saints....

Crickett
03-12-2007, 05:34 PM
Hindsight is 20/20, but no. No one regrets having a top tier LT locked up for the next 6 years at least. Especially considering we also got Mangold as you mentioned, then a 2nd rounder this year (which turned into Thomas Jones and a lte 2nd rounder) and a 1st round talent Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round.

I'll take:
D'Brick
Mangold
Thomas Jones
Kellen
and a late 2nd rounder

over:
Vernon Davis
Mangold
McNeil.

As much as I pretty much agree the selection or D'Brick and don't regret it, this analogy is wrong.

It would be

D'Brick
Mangold
Thomas Jones
Kellen
and a late 2nd rounder

over

Vernon Davis
Mangold
McNeil
Thomas Jones
and a late second rounder

derza222
03-12-2007, 06:28 PM
He's right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_Draft#Round_two McNeil was taken at 50, one pick after Clemens.

frogstomp
03-12-2007, 06:58 PM
D-Brick was the perfect pick for us. What the hell has Davis proven, anyways?

End of discussion.

jetsfan3
03-12-2007, 07:19 PM
D-Brick was the perfect pick for us. What the hell has Davis proven, anyways?

End of discussion.

I could not agree more.

Young Nasty Man
03-12-2007, 07:21 PM
I love when people ask these questions...at the time when the draft was occuring...did you know that Marcus McNeil was going to be a steal? how'd you know that Vernon Davis was going to get injured for basically the whole season? you didn't its not a question...you took D'Brick because it was the safest and smartest choice. He is playing one of the hardest positions in the game and has to face some of the toughest DE's. I dont regret taking D'Brick because if he stays iwht the franchise the rest of his career, then it will be a great investment.

Crickett
03-12-2007, 07:51 PM
Glad to see people recognizing Ferguson as a good selection. I remember this time last year anyone wanted Jay Cutler and claimed Ferguson would be the next Mike Williams. Which doesn't make sense on so many levels.

derza222
03-12-2007, 08:36 PM
I think Ferguson will be a very good but not elite left tackle in this league for years to come, which is fine by me. I still wouldn't change the pick at all. He was a very solid selection and will prove to be just that over the next 10 years as he protects the blindside of our QB's.

gio
03-12-2007, 08:37 PM
ferguson was the best pick for the jets, and to grab mangold later in the same round was icing on the cake. v. davis was hurt anyways, and in my opinion, you can't do anything in football, especially run the ball, if you dont have a great offensive line to control the game...those 2 guys are the future of our team..cant wait for what happens this year.

BroadwayJoe10
03-12-2007, 09:50 PM
without a doubt i have absolutely no regrets in taking D'brick...although mcneil had a better year at the point before the draft his stock dropped for a reason..I will never have a regret in drafting what was considered the best LT at the position, the player was single handedly the reason for lowering the draft stock of Kiwanuka, who was sconsidered one of the best DEs in the draft... D'brick is still a great physicaly specimen at left tackle and im sure mangini is going to do everything to ensure that he either adds weight or becomes the best LT that he can ...that having said maybe we can bring this topic back up at the end of next year to see how both of them progress

Non_Sequitur
03-13-2007, 03:14 AM
Glad to see people recognizing Ferguson as a good selection. I remember this time last year anyone wanted Jay Cutler and claimed Ferguson would be the next Mike Williams. Which doesn't make sense on so many levels.

BTW, I was calling for D'Brick well before the draft last year. Even when Rock was calling for us to trade our entire draft for Reggie Bush. Reggie Bush would have been nice, but he wasn't our need, and look what we got instead. Kellen, Mangold, Thomas Jones, and a late 2nd... oh, and Anthony Schlegel....

BTW, if you run the numbers, in the past 10 years Offensive Tackle has the lowest bust percentage in the top 15 picks.

BroadwayJoe10
03-15-2007, 06:31 PM
ill change the title of the thread a bit from D'brick to Schlegel...some people see that pick as a bit of a reach, however im wondering if anyone has any idea if hes gonna have a bigger role this year or used on strictly running downs??? he has a great frame for a ILB as well as the tenacity for stopping the run...the dude hunts boars with just a knife i mean cmon thats badass

nvot9
03-15-2007, 06:54 PM
**** no, and I sure as hell wouldn't want Davis.

And Schlegal's not a damn bust either. He was a fricken third round MLB who was tough so Mangini took a chance on him, how many 3rd round MLB's do you see become stars in their rookie year? Give him a god damn break...

Borat
03-15-2007, 07:14 PM
Taking Vernon instead of DBrick is just silly. You don't pass on franchise LTs when you need one. I like Vernon and all since he's on my team, but if both were there at No. 6, Dbrick would be a Niner.

Crickett
03-15-2007, 07:30 PM
ill change the title of the thread a bit from D'brick to Schlegel...some people see that pick as a bit of a reach, however im wondering if anyone has any idea if hes gonna have a bigger role this year or used on strictly running downs???

I don't know about Schegal's role on the team going into next year so I couldn't tell you one way or another. But I was very disappointed in that selection when it was made and in retrospect, I think I still am.

The Jets passed on a run blocking guard (Jean-Gilles) and someone who IMO could have been the 3-4 nose tackle the Jets really needed (Gabe Watson) in favor of an inside linebacker, a role I felt could have been filled by 3 people already on the team not named Jonathan Vilma (Barton, Hobson and Kassell).

jetsfan3
03-15-2007, 07:48 PM
**** no, and I sure as hell wouldn't want Davis.

And Schlegal's not a damn bust either. He was a fricken third round MLB who was tough so Mangini took a chance on him, how many 3rd round MLB's do you see become stars in their rookie year? Give him a god damn break...

Honestly. People say he sucks and he's such a bust and he has barely played.

Zim3031
03-15-2007, 07:49 PM
There's a reason that he's barely played...

Non_Sequitur
03-15-2007, 11:06 PM
There's a reason that he's barely played...

He was a rookie? :confused:

Zim3031
03-16-2007, 12:02 PM
He was a rookie? :confused:
Lots of other rookies on the team got a decent amount of playing time and made an impact. Can't really say the same for Schlegel.

Geo
03-16-2007, 12:06 PM
I'm not a Jets fan, but I certainly wouldn't regret taking D'Brick over Duke.

MP123
03-18-2007, 12:34 PM
Last year I wanted the Jets to take McNeil anyway and move him to RT.

But then again, I wanted the Jets to draft a LOT of offensive linemen.

D'Brickashaw Ferguson
Winston Justice
Nick Mangold
Marcus McNeil
Max Jean-Gilles
Ryan O'Callaghan
Jonathan Scott
Fred Matua

Other than McNeil AND Winston or O'Callaghan AND Gilles, I wanted the Jets to draft all of these guys. I saw OL as in that much need of help both in the starting lineup and depth.

Imagine if the Jets OL looked like this

D'Brick/Jones
Kendall/Moore
MangoldSmith
O'Callaghan/Matua
McNeil/Scott

That'd be insane (in a good way).

There's no way the Jets would draft that many lineman. You have to be realistic. And I think picking Ferguson was a good move. He played well last year from what I saw.

Crickett
03-18-2007, 12:46 PM
There's no way the Jets would draft that many lineman. You have to be realistic.

But at the same time, that is what I wanted them to do, what I thought they needed and while it is unrealistic, the Jets would not have to worry about about their offensive line for the next five years.

Zim3031
03-18-2007, 05:52 PM
But at the same time, that is what I wanted them to do, what I thought they needed and while it is unrealistic, the Jets would not have to worry about about their offensive line for the next five years.
Actually given their high draft position, they would have to worry about paying what would likely be some huge contracts to those linemen. Offensive linemen are very important but beyond center and left tackle, finding good players is not extraordinarily difficult, and talent at those positions can be found and developed from later rounds.

Crickett
03-18-2007, 06:57 PM
Actually given their high draft position, they would have to worry about paying what would likely be some huge contracts to those linemen.

High draft position? Here is where those offensive linemen (that the Jets didn't draft) were actually taken.

Winston Justice - 39 (2nd round)
Marcus McNeil - 50 (2nd round)
Max Jean Gilles - 99 (4th round)
Ryan O'Callaghan - 136 (5th round)
Jonathan Scott - 141 (5th round)
Fred Matua - 217 (7th round)


Offensive linemen are very important but beyond center and left tackle, finding good players is not extraordinarily difficult, and talent at those positions can be found and developed from later rounds.

Yes they can be found in later rounds, but at the same time, it is a crap shoot. You can get a Shane Olivea, but you're much more likely to get a Dave Yovanovits (or Kili Lefotu or E.J. Whitley). This wasn't as true last year which IMO had one of the strongest OL classes I've ever seen. I had a lot of trouble making mock drafts last year because I would make a two round mock draft, finish and tell myself, "naw, there is no way that many offensive linemen go in the first 2-3 rounds".

Zim3031
03-18-2007, 07:31 PM
High draft position? Here is where those offensive linemen (that the Jets didn't draft) were actually taken.

Winston Justice - 39 (2nd round)
Marcus McNeil - 50 (2nd round)
Max Jean Gilles - 99 (4th round)
Ryan O'Callaghan - 136 (5th round)
Jonathan Scott - 141 (5th round)
Fred Matua - 217 (7th round)
it was more referring to the people that are requesting that we spend our entire first day on drafting offensive linemen.

And even so, would you have liked the Jets to have drafted 10 offensive linemen last year? Drafting McNeil or Justice would've meant spending 3 top 35 picks on the same line. That sounds like an awful lot of talent and money tied into (practically) one position. Especially in a year where we had needs at virtually every position. Two pro bowl linemen from one draft is enough I would say.
Yes they can be found in later rounds, but at the same time, it is a crap shoot. You can get a Shane Olivea, but you're much more likely to get a Dave Yovanovits (or Kili Lefotu or E.J. Whitley). This wasn't as true last year which IMO had one of the strongest OL classes I've ever seen. I had a lot of trouble making mock drafts last year because I would make a two round mock draft, finish and tell myself, "naw, there is no way that many offensive linemen go in the first 2-3 rounds".
how many starting RT's or G's in the league were drafted in the first round? The vast majority of them were taken in later rounds and developed. Capable guards and right tackles are not all that difficult to find, and as a result team are able to get good late round sleepers every year, rather then spend valuable early picks that could be used to find more difficult positions to fill.

etk
03-18-2007, 07:45 PM
Anthony Schlegel was a complete waste of a pick, I don't care how early it is to judge. He barely saw the field because he is too slow and unathletic to be a special teams factor. Backups that can't play special teams don't make the active roster....

If he's too slow to be a special teamer, how can he be a starting MLB/ILB? There are certain limitations in the league nowadays, and he doesn't match up to the speed of pro football. Instincts and tackling alone will not make you a solid pro. He is already 26 years old too, so I don't buy the "potential" argument either.

Chucky
03-18-2007, 07:52 PM
Leinart would have definatly been a better pick than D'brick, especially considering the could have gotten Mcneil in the second, but hindsight is 20/20

etk
03-18-2007, 08:10 PM
Leinart would have definatly been a better pick than D'brick, especially considering the could have gotten Mcneil in the second, but hindsight is 20/20

Leinart?? Pennington is fine......

'cuse-213
03-18-2007, 08:12 PM
Leinart would have definatly been a better pick than D'brick, especially considering the could have gotten Mcneil in the second, but hindsight is 20/20

nah, not in the meadowlands. now cutler...

jetsfan3
03-18-2007, 08:13 PM
Leinart would have definatly been a better pick than D'brick, especially considering the could have gotten Mcneil in the second, but hindsight is 20/20

No way. I wanted McNeil in the 2nd anyway, as a RT. Most Jets fans did. And what makes Leinart better than Brick?

Crickett
03-18-2007, 08:28 PM
it was more referring to the people that are requesting that we spend our entire first day on drafting offensive linemen.

I didn't realize the Jets only had 2 day one picks. As for the contracts, the Jets are picking at the end of each round. Not exactly big money by NFL terms.

And even so, would you have liked the Jets to have drafted 10 offensive linemen last year? Drafting McNeil or Justice would've meant spending 3 top 35 picks on the same line. That sounds like an awful lot of talent and money tied into (practically) one position.

An offensive line being all one position is the same as saying a defensive line is all one position or the secondary is all one position. As for drafting McNeil or Justice, as I mentioned earlier, the Jets could have gotten McNeil after trading down. As for spending 3 top 50 picks on the same line, yeah, I looked at the Jets last year as in need of 4-5 new offensive starters (I was really unimpressed with Brandon Moore in 2005) and a couple of others for depth. They got 2 and surprise surprise, they still need 2. Possibly a third down the road if Brandon Moore doesn't improve. A right tackle (which they could have gotten) and a run blocking guard (which they could have gotten). As for the rest(Jonathan Scott and Fred Matua), where is the depth at OL? We all look at Wade Smith as the depth, but the Jets didn't actually sign him until after the season started. With Trey Teague injured, and Jonathan Goodwin unable to be counted on (I think he was cut too), did the Jets even have a backup offensive linemen before September 15th not named Adrian Jones? That's very dangerous to do. It's a good thing none of the Jets starting offensive linemen missed a single game due to injury b/c they very well could have been S.O.L.

Especially in a year where we had needs at virtually every position. Two pro bowl linemen from one draft is enough I would say.

And I said (many times before), in a year where the OL class was that strong, why not stock up?

how many starting RT's or G's in the league were drafted in the first round? The vast majority of them were taken in later rounds and developed. Capable guards and right tackles are not all that difficult to find, and as a result team are able to get good late round sleepers every year, rather then spend valuable early picks that could be used to find more difficult positions to fill.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong here, but I'm going to have to assume you either didn't want the Jets to draft D'Brickashaw or have regrets about the Jets drafting him. I say that because this is the same argument I saw all of last off season by the people who wanted Leinart, Young, Cutler or to trade for Phillip Rivers or Matt Schaub. Left tackles can be found later. Matt Light was drafted in the second round. Jonas Jennings was a late third round draft pick. Dan Koppen was a fifth round draft pick. We need skill position guys.

As for how many starting RT's were drafted in the first round, let me take a look. Jammal Brown (started at RT, moved to LT), Alex Barron, Vernon Carey, Jordan Gross (sometimes RT, sometimes LT), Marc Columbo (moved to RT), Stockar McDougle (backup), John Tait (moved to LT), Luke Pettitgout (moved to LT), Aaron Gibson (in the Arena League), Kyle Turley (Not really a Jets fans favorite, but he was a pro bowler before he got hurt), Victor Riley (out of the NFL) and I'm going to go just far enough back to say Willie Anderson, who is the only pro bowl right tackle in the NFL since Lincoln Kennedy retired.

As for guard, Davin Joseph, Logan Mankins, Shawn Andrews, Kendal Simmons, Steve Hutchinson, Damien Woody (moved to guard), Matt Stinchcomb (out of the NFL I think), Mo Collins (out of the NFL), Alan Faneca, Ross Verba, Jermane Mayberry (retired in 2006), Pete Kendall and Ruben Brown. I skipped Chris Naeole because I could of sworn he was a center.

I got all of these from NFL.com draft history if you want to check for yourself.

Now while it would be nice to draft an offensive linemen round one and I would like the Jets to do so, I don't think it's an absolute necessity as they can get some good linemen in the second and third rounds (such as Manny Ramirez). However, IMO it probably is not a good idea to wait until the fifth round for what is (at least at RT) a likely day one starter. This is why I have started stressing that the Jets don't have a fourth round draft pick. Because maybe you can get lucky in the fourth round and catch someone that slipped out of day one by mistake, but the Jets don't have a fourth round pick.

Zim3031
03-18-2007, 08:49 PM
I didn't realize the Jets only had 2 day one picks. As for the contracts, the Jets are picking at the end of each round. Not exactly big money by NFL terms.
Not just money but value in terms of draft picks and talent. Those positions on the line are not very difficult to fill. Even Anthony Clement was serviceable last year.


As for drafting McNeil or Justice, as I mentioned earlier, the Jets could have gotten McNeil after trading down.
It would've been highly illogical to spend 3 top 35 picks on the offensive line in the same draft with a team that had needs literally everywhere, at a position that, once again, is rather easy to fill.

As for spending 3 top 50 picks on the same line, yeah, I looked at the Jets last year as in need of 4-5 new offensive starters (I was really unimpressed with Brandon Moore in 2005) and a couple of others for depth. They got 2 and surprise surprise, they still need 2. Possibly a third down the road if Brandon Moore doesn't improve. A right tackle (which they could have gotten) and a run blocking guard (which they could have gotten). As for the rest(Jonathan Scott and Fred Matua), where is the depth at OL? We all look at Wade Smith as the depth, but the Jets didn't actually sign him until after the season started. With Trey Teague injured, and Jonathan Goodwin unable to be counted on (I think he was cut too), did the Jets even have a backup offensive linemen before September 15th not named Adrian Jones? That's very dangerous to do. It's a good thing none of the Jets starting offensive linemen missed a single game due to injury b/c they very well could have been S.O.L.
4-5 new starters? your memory must be a little fuzzy. There wan't anything remotely close to a sure thing last offseason. Pennington was impossible to count on, Derrick Blaylock was set to start, We had maybe one dependable player on the offensive line, Coles was the only thing close to an offensive weapon, Cotchery was still unknown at this point. And that's before I even get into the whole-completely changing the defensive scheme-thing.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say the Jets had many needs last year. You can't really draft for depth when you don't even have starters.

And I said (many times before), in a year where the OL class was that strong, why not stock up?
Once again, we had so many needs that stockpiling would've been illogical.



I'm sorry if I'm wrong here, but I'm going to have to assume you either didn't want the Jets to draft D'Brickashaw or have regrets about the Jets drafting him.
That couldn't be further from the truth. I was one of maybe three people here last offseason that wanted D'brick over the likes of Deangelo Williams. However once again I must stress that positions such as Center and Left tackle are far more difficult to fill than the other spots on the line.



As for how many starting RT's were drafted in the first round, let me take a look. Jammal Brown (started at RT, moved to LT), Alex Barron, Vernon Carey, Jordan Gross (sometimes RT, sometimes LT), Marc Columbo (moved to RT), Stockar McDougle (backup), John Tait (moved to LT), Luke Pettitgout (moved to LT), Aaron Gibson (in the Arena League), Kyle Turley (Not really a Jets fans favorite, but he was a pro bowler before he got hurt), Victor Riley (out of the NFL) and I'm going to go just far enough back to say Willie Anderson, who is the only pro bowl right tackle in the NFL since Lincoln Kennedy retired.
You see, half of your examples involve players that moved to left tackle, where their excellent skills would be more suited. I'm afraid I'll have to live under the assumption that that spot will belong to D'brick.

As for guard, Davin Joseph, Logan Mankins, Shawn Andrews, Kendal Simmons, Steve Hutchinson, Damien Woody (moved to guard), Matt Stinchcomb (out of the NFL I think), Mo Collins (out of the NFL), Alan Faneca, Ross Verba, Jermane Mayberry (retired in 2006), Pete Kendall and Ruben Brown. I skipped Chris Naeole because I could of sworn he was a center.
Okay what is that? 10? maybe 11? Out of a total of 64 starting guards that number hardly seems astronomical.

Now while it would be nice to draft an offensive linemen round one and I would like the Jets to do so, I don't think it's an absolute necessity as they can get some good linemen in the second and third rounds (such as Manny Ramirez), but IMO it probably is not a good idea to wait until the fifth round for what is (at least at RT) a likely day one starter. This is why I have started stressing that the Jets don't have a fourth round draft pick. Because maybe you can get lucky in the fourth round and catch someone that slipped out of day one by mistake, but the Jets don't have a fourth round pick.
I would love to pick up a big mauling guard in the first day also. I just hardly see it as some type of necessity.

Crickett
03-18-2007, 09:30 PM
Not just money but value in terms of draft picks and talent. Those positions on the line are not very difficult to fill. Even Anthony Clement was serviceable last year.

I guess I'm expecting to much to think that describing more than one of the Jets offensive linemen as "serviceable" is probably a bad thing.


It would've been highly illogical to spend 3 top 35 picks on the offensive line in the same draft with a team that had needs literally everywhere, at a position that, once again, is rather easy to fill.

If an offensive line is in that bad of shape, I don't see why.

4-5 new starters? your memory must be a little fuzzy. There wan't anything remotely close to a sure thing last offseason. Pennington was impossible to count on, Derrick Blaylock was set to start, We had maybe one dependable player on the offensive line, Coles was the only thing close to an offensive weapon, Cotchery was still unknown at this point. And that's before I even get into the whole-completely changing the defensive scheme-thing.

1. I meant offensive line starters.
2. And how many defensive starters did the Jets draft last year?
3. And how many WR's/TE's did the Jets draft last year?
4. How good was the Jets run game last year? The Jets didn't draft a RB or WR until day 2.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say the Jets had many needs last year. You can't really draft for depth when you don't even have starters.

Once again, we had so many needs that stockpiling would've been illogical.



I do think it is a stretch to be drafting players in rounds 5-7 expecting them to be starters, much less quality starters. It's nice when it happens, but it is very infrequent and it shouldn't be expected. If the Jets can draft someone in the sixth round who provides quality depth, it was a good selection.


You see, half of your examples involve players that moved to left tackle, where their excellent skills would be more suited. I'm afraid I'll have to live under the assumption that that spot will belong to D'brick.

Exactly, all of those guys were high quality right tackles. In many cases, they were moved to LT because the teams didn't have anyone else to play LT. That's certainly why Gross switches from RT to LT to RT to LT like he's John Kerry.

Okay what is that? 10? maybe 11? Out of a total of 64 starting guards that number hardly seems astronomical.

Considering how many (or few) guards get drafted in the first round, that seems like a lot to me.

I would love to pick up a big mauling guard in the first day also. I just hardly see it as some type of necessity.

I do considering how bad the run blocking was last year and that the Jets now havw a quality every down starter at RB.

Crickett
03-18-2007, 09:42 PM
One other question. If three of the five OL positions are so easy to fill, why are so many teams always in such dire need of offensive line help?

jetsfan3
03-19-2007, 07:03 AM
One other question. If three of the five OL positions are so easy to fill, why are so many teams always in such dire need of offensive line help?

Well it's really just the terribly coached and managed teams.

The Lions, Cardinals, Browns...

And also now the Chiefs. Herm can't create a line somewhat close to decent.

Crickett
03-19-2007, 07:50 AM
Well it's really just the terribly coached and managed teams.

The Lions, Cardinals, Browns...

And also now the Chiefs. Herm can't create a line somewhat close to decent.

Take a look around the league at how many teams don't need an upgrade at OL (and not because they've already upgraded) or replacements for aging vets. It's a heck of a lot more than four teams.

THIZZorDIE
03-19-2007, 04:04 PM
Personally, I think you guys should have taken Vernon Davis with the #4 pick.
Then take Mangold with the second first rounder, then Mcniel in the second...


thoughts?

I would've liked to see you say that prior to this season. D'Brick played really well, its not a coincidence that Penninton stayed healthy and upped his game. Nor is it that the commitee of young RB's the Jets used, was effective. You would make more of a point with a draft correction, on a team that wasn't on an upswing like the New York Jets are.

Zim3031
03-19-2007, 04:44 PM
I guess I'm expecting to much to think that describing more than one of the Jets offensive linemen as "serviceable" is probably a bad thing.
This is starting to really go around in circles. we do not need first round talent to have success at the RT tackle position. Thus it would be illogical to spend a first rounder there when you have such glaring weaknesses at positions that are more difficult to find premiere talent at. We still have a very weak pass rush in a defense that requires one and an awful run defense.



If an offensive line is in that bad of shape, I don't see why.
It was far more than the offensive line that was in bad shape. We had no idea if Pennington was going to be capable of being a starter, we already took two future pro bowl offensive linemen, and the organization seemed to have fallen in love with Clemens. Seems like a reasonable pick to me.

1. I meant offensive line starters.
2. And how many defensive starters did the Jets draft last year?
3. And how many WR's/TE's did the Jets draft last year?
4. How good was the Jets run game last year? The Jets didn't draft a RB or WR until day 2.
We drafted two defensive players in the first day, one of which is actually pretty good, three offensive ones, then a runningback who had a fantastic rookie campaign in the fourth, a good blocking tight end, and a cornerback that actually managed to start. All of the picks seem to have improved areas that were weaknesses in one way or another.



I do think it is a stretch to be drafting players in rounds 5-7 expecting them to be starters, much less quality starters. It's nice when it happens, but it is very infrequent and it shouldn't be expected. If the Jets can draft someone in the sixth round who provides quality depth, it was a good selection.
Drew Coleman actually managed to start some games, and Posciak provides some potential at a wide open fullback position. There are more positions other than offensive line that require depth.



Exactly, all of those guys were high quality right tackles. In many cases, they were moved to LT because the teams didn't have anyone else to play LT. That's certainly why Gross switches from RT to LT to RT to LT like he's John Kerry.
LT is a far more important position to play, thus they would want to put their most talented and skilled player their, rather than letting it be wasted at a less difficult and important position at RT.
Considering how many (or few) guards get drafted in the first round, that seems like a lot to me.
Once again, it's hardly an astronomical number, Faneca and Hutch are really the only great ones.


Anyway, this whole agruement is really starting to get repetitive and boring, so I'm afraid I'll have to take the agree to disagree route. It was fun though, plus rep for you :)

Crickett
03-19-2007, 05:23 PM
This is starting to really go around in circles. we do not need first round talent to have success at the RT tackle position.
Thus it would be illogical to spend a first rounder there when you have such glaring weaknesses at positions that are more difficult to find premiere talent at. We still have a very weak pass rush in a defense that requires one and an awful run defense.

Okay, since we're apparently going to continue in this circle, I'm not arguing that the Jets absolutely have to draft a right tackle in the first round. It would be nice, but it's not a necessity. Drafting one day one seems like a necessity because otherwise the Jets have to wait until the end of round 5 which is pretty late to be expecting a starter.

I'm not thrilled with the return of Anthony Clement as I was hoping for an improvement, but considering who's left at OL in free agency, he was the best option there.

And yes its true that the Jets could use depth all over (except for WR methinks), but last year had a really strong OL class so why not take advantage.


Once again, it's hardly an astronomical number, Faneca and Hutch are really the only great ones.

Shawn Andrews is seccond only to Will Shields in the NFL at right guard and Ruben Brown is probably a future HoF. Others such as Mayberry or Kendall were good enough to start for many years in the league and occasionally make a pro bowl appearance.


Anyway, this whole agruement is really starting to get repetitive and boring, so I'm afraid I'll have to take the agree to disagree route. It was fun though, plus rep for you :)

I'll say that I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and thank you for not getting heated over it. I'd like to ask though, what is that whole "rep" thing? I've been posting here for about a week after not posting here at all since last year's draft and I find that the design of board is totally different. :o

AlexDown
03-19-2007, 05:44 PM
Do I regret taking D'Brickashaw at this point? Nope.