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eagles6606
01-10-2010, 09:27 PM
Since a lot of people are calling for Donovan's head, I feel the need to defend him. First of all, let me explain what happenned in last nights game. As usual, the Eagles failed to establish the run. This allowed the Cowboys to keep their safeties deep and prevent Maclin and Jackson from getting downfield. The Cowboys cornerbacks completely shut down Jackson and controlled Maclin except for the or gimmick play. Mcnabb had no where to go with the ball. The Eagles line could not contain the pass rush and Donovan was running fir his life most of the game. This was partially because we had our backup center in, partially because Mccoy isn't very experienced in picking up the blitz, and mainly because the Cowboys pass rushers were just better than us. I'm not saying Donovan could not have played better, but it certainly wasn't his fault. A QB who is not as mobile as Mcnabb (specifically Kolb) would have gotten killed last night. Even if we had Peyton or Brady back there, I don't think we would have won the game.
Throughout his whole career, Donovan has been a winner. He has been successfull without good recievers. The one year when he had recievers, we went to the super bowl. In the regular season, Mcnabb has the third best TD to INT in the NFL of ALL TIME. That is very impressive. Yes Donovan is a streaky QB and sometimes he completely loses his accuracy. However when he gets into a bad streak, he doesn't turn the ball over and still gives his team
a chance to win. Let's compare Donovan to Kolb, who would replace
Mcnabb if he was traded. Donovan is a mobile QB, he is very good at escaping the rush, has a good deep ball, and is a proven winner. He is also a very streaky with his accuracy and could be a better leader. Kolb is theoretically more accurate, less streaky, and a better leader than Mcnabb. However he is no where near as good at escaping the pocket as Mcnabb and his arm/deep
ball is not as good. On a team based on speed (Maclin and Jackson) a QB who can throw deep and extend the play is essential. Kolb has a good future, but he is not in Mcnabb's league.
I understand people's frustration that we haven't won a super bowl, I am frustrated too. Replacing Donovan is not the answer. Instead the Eagles should improve the team they already have. Next year Jackson, Maclin, Celek, Peters, Justice, and Mccoy should all be better. We need to resign Weaver and Avant, get a monster left defensive end, a starting free safety, and an upgrade at strong side linebacker. This is the most talented offense the eagles have had in many years and it will only get better. Donovan is an experienced QB and a proven winner. With some growth and 2 or 3 significant upgrades on defense, the Eagles will be an extremely dangerous team.

Todd Bertuzzi
01-10-2010, 09:32 PM
Could not have said it better myself.

BaLLiN
01-10-2010, 09:37 PM
i think what you guys are really missing on offense is a big possession reciever, Avant is good, but i dont feel like he is big enough to mismatch DB's.

On defense i really feel like besides MLB you guys are good. Mikell now has a year under his belt without Dawkins, a very hard loss, and At FS you have Macho Harris, who will likely look to add some weight in the offseason and has time to grow into the position.

Edit: McNabb and your OL was definitely dismantled by the loss of your center, but dallas seems to have your number, you ours, and us theirs.

D-Unit
01-10-2010, 09:40 PM
i think what you guys are really missing on offense is a big possession reciever, Avant is good, but i dont feel like he is big enough to mismatch DB's.

On defense i really feel like besides MLB you guys are good. Mikell now has a year under his belt without Dawkins, a very hard loss, and At FS you have Macho Harris, who will likely look to add some weight in the offseason and has time to grow into the position.
I said that at the time when they drafted Maclin that I thought he was not the best compliment to Jackson, but Eagles fans refused to acknowledge that and said he was plenty different enough. Well...

I agree with you.

eagles6606
01-10-2010, 09:45 PM
i think what you guys are really missing on offense is a big possession reciever, Avant is good, but i dont feel like he is big enough to mismatch DB's.

On defense i really feel like besides MLB you guys are good. Mikell now has a year under his belt without Dawkins, a very hard loss, and At FS you have Macho Harris, who will likely look to add some weight in the offseason and has time to grow into the position.

I have to disagree with you on that. Before his injury, Stewart Bradley was on his was to stardom. Hopefully he can recover and be healthy next year. Macho Harris is a tough and physical player. I admire that. However I don't think he has the physical skills to match up in coverage and has work to do on his tackling technique. The Eagles need a safety who can
match up in coverage. That will allow Mikell to be a playmaker against the run like he was last year. A really good possession reciever would help the offense, but it's not necessary. Avant is a pretty solid
slot guy and with Jackson, Maclin, Celek, and Mccoy we have plenty of
offenssive options. The eagles have some work to
do on their D.

Todd Bertuzzi
01-10-2010, 09:49 PM
I have to disagree with you on that. Before his injury, Stewart Bradley was on his was to stardom. Hopefully he can recover and be healthy next year. Macho Harris is a tough and physical player. I admire that. However I don't think he has the physical skills to match up in coverage and has work to do on his tackling technique. The Eagles need a safety who can
match up in coverage. That will allow Mikell to be a playmaker against the run like he was last year. A really good possession reciever would help the offense, but it's not necessary. Avant is a pretty solid
slot guy and with Jackson, Maclin, Celek, and Mccoy we have plenty of
offenssive options. The eagles have some work to
do on their D.

This. This year was supposed to be Bradley's coming out party. Macho is a good depth player, but he's no starter. We need a FS and a LE to play opposite of Trent Cole along with some o-line depth.

Brothgar
01-10-2010, 10:04 PM
As much as I would love to blame this loss on McNabb alas I can not. The main bulk of the blame goes to Andy Reid and the offensive playcaller. I remember very clearly the words "If you fans in Philadelphia don't recognize it that is a run." It may have become a passing league but I mean come on. The Cowboys won this game on Defense getting pressure to the QB and having great coverage down the field.

Thumper
01-10-2010, 10:13 PM
Maclin is plenty different enough, the guy is 2.5" taller and 25 pounds heavier. You don't see DeSean doing a lot of things Maclin does and I already feel like Maclin is the more complete receiver.

And I'm saying that was McNabb's fault, sure you can say he was under pressure but Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers and Matt Schaub all line up under much worse offensive lines, the problem was that McNabb let the pressure get to him and he was more concerned with the pass rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield, he has had happy feet for 2 1/2 weeks now and hasn't done anything good.

As a QB you aren't supposed to run for you're life, you're supposed to step up in the pocket and deliver a strike on a crossing pattern or something like that to slow the blitz down and all McNabb did was get wide eyed and dejected all game.

And I do think that if you put Peyton Manning behind this line that the Eagles would win this game because he does things the right way, he isn't rattled by pressure the way McNabb is.

And lets compare...

Kolb isn't as mobile as McNabb but he is more than capable of buying time and is more mobile than a majority of NFL QBs.
Kolb does have the arm strength to get the ball deep and he proved it this season.
Kolb is more accurate, his completion percentage of 64.7% in the two game he started is better than McNabb's career high.
Plus I'm going to go ahead and assume that Kolb has a better state of mind than McNabb seeing as you could regularly see Kolb pointing things out and trying to talk to McNabb during the first loss, that and he didn't seem affected by the blowout loss in New Orleans, he came out the next Sunday and was slinging it around more efficiently than ever.

I'd love to see what this offense can do as Jeremy Maclin, DeSean Jackson, Brent Celek, LeSean McCoy and others grow with Kevin Kolb at QB.

eagles6606
01-10-2010, 10:16 PM
As much as I would love to blame this loss on McNabb alas I can not. The main bulk of the blame goes to Andy Reid and the offensive playcaller. I remember very clearly the words "If you fans in Philadelphia don't recognize it that is a run." It may have become a passing league but I mean come on. The Cowboys won this game on Defense getting pressure to the QB and having great coverage down the field.

I completely agree. The offenssive playcalling is a big problem. Andy does a good job getting his players ready to play and does well as a GM. Though it is unlikely I would love to see a new offenssive coordinator. We could still keep the same general plays, but call them differently. If the Eagles could establish the run under center, then play action to Jackson, Maclin, and Celek would
be dangerous.

BaLLiN
01-10-2010, 10:17 PM
I have to disagree with you on that. Before his injury, Stewart Bradley was on his was to stardom. Hopefully he can recover and be healthy next year. Macho Harris is a tough and physical player. I admire that. However I don't think he has the physical skills to match up in coverage and has work to do on his tackling technique. The Eagles need a safety who can
match up in coverage. That will allow Mikell to be a playmaker against the run like he was last year. A really good possession reciever would help the offense, but it's not necessary. Avant is a pretty solid
slot guy and with Jackson, Maclin, Celek, and Mccoy we have plenty of
offenssive options. The eagles have some work to
do on their D.

Oh my bad, forgot about Bradley, but now that i remember him, he has been injured two seasons in a row, right? Gaither didn't seem like you're scheme's prototypical MLB, but i was thinking more along the lines of adding a free agent, idk if they fit your scheme but Karlos Dansby or DeMeco Ryans?

Why i say this, is that you don't have a guy you can throw it up to and have a pretty good chance of getting the ball, or at least not letting the ball get picked, while he is covered. Plax was that for the giants, McNabb was amazing with TO when TO wasnt a headcase, i think if he gets that high catch % jump ball reciever he does a great deal better and your reciever corps has a whole other mismatch and a new dimension to the offense.

Thumper
01-10-2010, 10:24 PM
No just one, Bradley was the up and coming star at MLB, the guy who was supposed to be the next elite guy according to some people who aren't even Eagles fans. I felt he was overrated because he wasn't great in coverage but the Eagles really missed him in run support where he was great and leadership where he was also an important factor.

So basically if the Eagles get Dezmon Briscoe they're unstoppable?

eagles6606
01-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Oh my bad, forgot about Bradley, but now that i remember him, he has been injured two seasons in a row, right? Gaither didn't seem like you're scheme's prototypical MLB, but i was thinking more along the lines of adding a free agent, idk if they fit your scheme but Karlos Dansby or DeMeco Ryans?

Why i say this, is that you don't have a guy you can throw it up to and have a pretty good chance of getting the ball, or at least not letting the ball get picked, while he is covered. Plax was that for the giants, McNabb was amazing with TO when TO wasnt a headcase, i think if he gets that high catch % jump ball reciever he does a great deal better and your reciever corps has a whole other mismatch and a new dimension to the offense.

I think the Eagles would proobally be better hoping Bradley can stay healthy and then adding a strong side linebacker. Ryans or Dansby definately would be possibilities. Then Akeem Jordan and Will Weatherspoon could fight for the weak side. Jordan and Weatherspoon are good players, but better suited for the weak side.
I agree that a really good big reciever would add another dimension to this offense, but I think they have bigger needs especially on defense. Hopefully Celek can be that bigger option and then maybe we could add a bigger reciever to be the 4th guy at WR.

Brothgar
01-10-2010, 10:29 PM
Maclin is plenty different enough, the guy is 2.5" taller and 25 pounds heavier. You don't see DeSean doing a lot of things Maclin does and I already feel like Maclin is the more complete receiver.

And I'm saying that was McNabb's fault, sure you can say he was under pressure but Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers and Matt Schaub all line up under much worse offensive lines, the problem was that McNabb let the pressure get to him and he was more concerned with the pass rush instead of keeping his eyes downfield, he has had happy feet for 2 1/2 weeks now and hasn't done anything good.

As a QB you aren't supposed to run for you're life, you're supposed to step up in the pocket and deliver a strike on a crossing pattern or something like that to slow the blitz down and all McNabb did was get wide eyed and dejected all game.

And I do think that if you put Peyton Manning behind this line that the Eagles would win this game because he does things the right way, he isn't rattled by pressure the way McNabb is.

And lets compare...

Kolb isn't as mobile as McNabb but he is more than capable of buying time and is more mobile than a majority of NFL QBs.
Kolb does have the arm strength to get the ball deep and he proved it this season.
Kolb is more accurate, his completion percentage of 64.7% in the two game he started is better than McNabb's career high.
Plus I'm going to go ahead and assume that Kolb has a better state of mind than McNabb seeing as you could regularly see Kolb pointing things out and trying to talk to McNabb during the first loss, that and he didn't seem affected by the blowout loss in New Orleans, he came out the next Sunday and was slinging it around more efficiently than ever.

I'd love to see what this offense can do as Jeremy Maclin, DeSean Jackson, Brent Celek, LeSean McCoy and others grow with Kevin Kolb at QB.

Ain't I suppose to be the McNabb hater.

shane_man
01-11-2010, 05:09 AM
I think they are almost at the point where you drafted Kolb. You have seen what he can do. Time to play him and let McNabb walk. It would fit with the M.O of the franchise who has let stars walk in the past. Not just as a cost cutting measure but because they assumed the younger guy would step in effectively(and for the most part been correct in that assumption)

When I entered this thread. I was ready to go in to bat for McNabb because I have always rated him as a QB but Thumper's post got me thinking. Not about whether Kolb really is better then McNabb. Just about the fact that he hasn't been "bad" in replacement of McNabb in the past and you had to have drafted him to replace McNabb. It's been what... three years now. Time to maybe give him the show and send McNabb out to pasture(too bad the team that would have traded multiple drafts for him now has a franchise signal caller)

Thumper
01-11-2010, 10:12 PM
Another reason I prefer Kolb, like I said the Eagles offense was more consistent and flowing with Kolb in the game, he is trained to be a rhythm and timing QB and McNabb isn't, McNabb is the guy who makes big plays with supreme athletic ability, not with intelligence and a methodic offense. That is one thing I noticed as well and the offense isn't going to get better as McNabb ages because that supreme athletic ability is fading. Adam Caplan said that Andy Reid likes Kevin Kolb because of his intelligence, working in the film room and learning new schemes on offense.

Also just something from Tommy Lawlor's website (http://www.scoutsnotebook.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=11867#11867):
Saturday's game:
MCNABB - There were many problems on offense. My biggest frustration still lies with Donovan McNabb. He had chances to make plays. He didn't. On the opening drive he threw a sloppy pass to the left sideline. That was incomplete. We had a short run. On 3rd down he dropped back. There was some pressure, but he had a pocket to work with. Jason Avant stayed in to block on Ware initially and then released into the flat. He was WIDE open. W-I-D-E. McNabb could have lobbed him the ball and Avant would have caught it and easily gotten the 1st down. Instead Donnie locked onto Maclin over the middle. He didn't seem to notice the Dallas LB that almost caught the ball. Punt.

On the second series we had 2nd/10 from the Dallas 24. We had McNabb drop back to pass. He had 4.5 seconds before a defender was even near him. Finally at the 5.5 second mark he threw the ball into the ground. That drew the flag for grounding and moved us right back to the 10-yard line. That play set me off for a couple of reasons. First, Jason Avant was open on a deep crossing route. He had a DB trailing him. Donovan was looking in that vicinity, but either failed to see him or wanted to go elsewhere. Avant would have caught that ball around the 40. Even if the drive stalls there we've flipped the field. The second best thing would have been Donovan just realizing that the play wasn't going to work as hoped and getting rid of the ball. That way we have 3rd/10 and we're still at the 24. The worst thing to do is ground the ball. We're then faced with 3rd/24 and we're pinned back at our 10. Those yards hurt us on the exchange of possessions. Dallas got the ball near midfield to start their next drive.

We score a TD on the Vick play on the next possession. Dallas then scores again and has a 14-7 lead. We get the ball at the 20. A pass int. call on Dallas moves us to the 30. This is good. We run for 6 yards. This is good. Just move the chains and lets see what happens. Donovan drops back to pass. He has 2 good options on this play. Reggie Brown is open on a crossing route. Also, the middle of the field is open for him to run. Donovan decides to pass. He puts the ball behind Reggie and the ball falls incomplete. Dallas has an effective blitz on 3rd down and we have to punt. Give them credit on that play.

I understand Donovan's thinking on the 2nd down play. Reggie was open. The pass would have gained us at least 10 yards. My frustration lies in the lack of situational awareness. Dallas is playing lights out on offense. We're struggling to move the ball. Donovan had to know he wasn't throwing the ball well at that point. His passes were very erratic. Run to get the sure 1st down. That buys the defense some rest and every 1st down gives the offense a bit more confidence. I'm not saying this with hindsight. I was yelling for him to run on Saturday. Passes can be off target. They can be dropped. Go get the 1st down in the most sure way possible.

Finished the game 19-37 for 230 yards. He had 1 TD and 1 INT. McNabb did do a good job of buying time in the pocket. His protection had some breakdowns. He just couldn't throw a good pass early on. Started 1 of 6 for 2 yards. Calling that not good is being generous.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 10:57 PM
Holy jeez, this is getting juicy.

The Eagles young players look to KOLB for advice not McNabb (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/18/report-young-eagles-looking-to-kolb-not-mcnabb-for-advice/)

Rotoworld is reporting the same thing. The source is Howard Eskin who works on WIP and NBC Philadelphia, a fairly reliable source if you ask me.

If that is in fact true, it makes it so much easier to get rid of McNabb and it fully supports my idea that Kolb is going to be a better leader because he has more mental fortitude and won't choke clutch games away. The more you think about it, Kolb isn't just the next Feeley, Kolb is a leader, he is the first QB in NFL history to put up 300 yards in both of his first starts, he is more intelligent, has a better arm, is more agile etc. etc. Kolb is the real deal and I growing more and more anxious for the Kolb era to start maybe this story will force the Eagles hand and make them choose sooner, Kolb or McNabb? Because the Eagles are going to have to be very vague and say "Their both great leaders" and the Kolb story will continue on. They'll have to say "That is completely false" and insult Kolb or they'll have to admit it is true and make some BS excuse why and insult McNabb.

And this would also support the idea that dealing McNabb would help the offensive weapons grow because now the guy giving them the advice will be the one throwing them the ball. And if it is true, this is almost flat out saying that DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek and LeSean McCoy respect Kolb more. And can you blame them? DeSean Jackson had 250 yards, 10 catches and 2 touchdowns with Kolb at QB and Brent Celek had 16 catches, 208 yards and 1 touchdown both of which were better than any two game stretch with McNabb at QB and after watching McNabb flail against the Cowboys the biggest rivals 3 games in a row what are they supposed to think?

tjsunstein
01-18-2010, 11:01 PM
I fail to believe Kolb will be better than McNabb will be going forward but this looks like a mini Favre-Rodgers situation where a team may have to go with the young calf over the old bull.

Saints-Tigers
01-18-2010, 11:06 PM
Kolb isn't that good though, Rodgers is a stud.

tjsunstein
01-18-2010, 11:07 PM
Kolb isn't that good though, Rodgers is a stud.

We didn't know Rodgers was a stud until he was given a chance to start.

Saints-Tigers
01-18-2010, 11:09 PM
The coaching staff knew he was a stud.

Saints-Tigers
01-18-2010, 11:14 PM
Point is, Rodgers played sparingly here and there, and he didn't even throw any picks, and had some nice games.

Kolb has had like a 1 nice game a bunch of WTF's. Before the Eagles lost in the playoffs, the reason they were going to beat the Saints was because "Kolb made them lose", now McNabb is the reason, haha.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:14 PM
I find it amusing that people think Kevin Kolb is good because he threw for a lot of yards against a team that was basically playing prevent defense the whole game (and still threw three picks) and the Chiefs. Give me a ******* break. Kolb is garbage.

Whistler6
01-18-2010, 11:16 PM
Holy jeez, this is getting juicy.

The Eagles young players look to KOLB for advice not McNabb (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/18/report-young-eagles-looking-to-kolb-not-mcnabb-for-advice/)

Rotoworld is reporting the same thing. The source is Howard Eskin who works on WIP and NBC Philadelphia, a fairly reliable source if you ask me.

If that is in fact true, it makes it so much easier to get rid of McNabb and it fully supports my idea that Kolb is going to be a better leader because he has more mental fortitude and won't choke clutch games away. The more you think about it, Kolb isn't just the next Feeley, Kolb is a leader, he is the first QB in NFL history to put up 300 yards in both of his first starts, he is more intelligent, has a better arm, is more agile etc. etc. Kolb is the real deal and I growing more and more anxious for the Kolb era to start maybe this story will force the Eagles hand and make them choose sooner, Kolb or McNabb? Because the Eagles are going to have to be very vague and say "Their both great leaders" and the Kolb story will continue on. They'll have to say "That is completely false" and insult Kolb or they'll have to admit it is true and make some BS excuse why and insult McNabb.

And this would also support the idea that dealing McNabb would help the offensive weapons grow because now the guy giving them the advice will be the one throwing them the ball. And if it is true, this is almost flat out saying that DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek and LeSean McCoy respect Kolb more. And can you blame them? DeSean Jackson had 250 yards, 10 catches and 2 touchdowns with Kolb at QB and Brent Celek had 16 catches, 208 yards and 1 touchdown both of which were better than any two game stretch with McNabb at QB and after watching McNabb flail against the Cowboys the biggest rivals 3 games in a row what are they supposed to think?

Do you truly believe the crap that just came out of your mouth or is this some kind of hoax?

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:20 PM
If that is in fact true, it makes it so much easier to get rid of McNabb and it fully supports my idea that Kolb is going to be a better leader because he has more mental fortitude and won't choke clutch games away.

You've been able to judge this on two games?

The more you think about it, Kolb isn't just the next Feeley, Kolb is a leader,

Holy God, you're serious.

he is the first QB in NFL history to put up 300 yards in both of his first starts

51 attempts (3 picks including one pick-six), and...

http://www.wichitakansas.org/user/image/kansas_city_chiefs_article(1).jpg

he is more intelligent, has a better arm, is more agile etc. etc.

...which brings me to my next point. DON'T DO CRACK!

And this would also support the idea that dealing McNabb would help the offensive weapons grow because now the guy giving them the advice will be the one throwing them the ball. And if it is true, this is almost flat out saying that DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Brent Celek and LeSean McCoy respect Kolb more. And can you blame them? DeSean Jackson had 250 yards, 10 catches and 2 touchdowns with Kolb at QB and Brent Celek had 16 catches, 208 yards and 1 touchdown both of which were better than any two game stretch with McNabb at QB and after watching McNabb flail against the Cowboys the biggest rivals 3 games in a row what are they supposed to think?

51 attempts (3 picks including one pick-six), and...

http://www.wichitakansas.org/user/image/kansas_city_chiefs_article(1).jpg

Seriously...arguably the dumbest post in this Eagles forum's history. You've outdone yourself.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 11:22 PM
Kolb is good though, he struggled when he wasn't prepared (Baltimore, Carolina) but he lit it up when he was able to practice with the starters for two weeks, he was the first ever QB to throw for 300 yards in hist first 2 starts, throwing for 718 yards in two starts and also throwing 4 touchdowns while hitting his target 64.5 percent of the time. He had one real interception and it was not seeing a LB in the flat on a quick pass, the other 2 came in the 4th quarter of the Saints game on hail mary passes.

Kolb is the total package, he has the arm strength, the accuracy, intelligence, leadership, footwork, toughness, pocket presence etc. etc. the only thing with him is that he came out of a really weird system and would've taken time to adjust to the NFL and it is 4 years later and he has learned the ins and outs of the NFL while learning the scheme. The only problem I can foresee is that he forces things, in earlier relief efforts for McNabb, Kolb would really try and gun throws into small windows and he paid the price throwing interceptions but in two games this season he showed that he is capable of overcoming this problem.

I know most of you will call homer on me, but just look at these scouting report (http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/story/2007/4/28/194242/416)s.

And since I know you all respect Scott Wright I will show you his:
Strengths:
Arm strength is more than adequate and he has a very quick release...Strong and has a solid build...Protects the ball and has a good career TD / INT ratio...Durable and has a lot of experience...Solid athlete who can run a little and hurt defenses with his feet...Has everything you look for from an intangibles standpoint in terms of leadership, brains and work ethic...Extremely productive throughout his career.
Weaknesses:
Does not have the ideal height that you look for...Passing numbers were inflated by playing in a passing system...Accuracy is dodgy, especially on deep balls...Gets too many passes batted down at the line...Worked mostly out of the shotgun...Is going to have to learn how to run a pro style offense and read defenses...Didn't always play against top competition...Mechanics and throwing motion need work.

Boom, three years in the league and that stuff is all corrected, he now knows how to play in an NFL system and his mechanics are corrected.

And as for his deep ball, I'd say it is serviceable.
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Todd Bertuzzi
01-18-2010, 11:25 PM
First off Kolb is no Rivers or Rodgers. McNabb had statistically one of his best seasons ever as a starter this year. You can't pin the Dallas loss on him. It comes down to a combination injuries along the o-line catching up with us, and Dallas' defense just flat out outplaying our defense. They were getting constant pressure on McNabb and none of our receivers were getting open. Couple that with the fact that Morninwheg called a terrible game per usual(39 passing plays/10 running plays) and that's why we lost. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees and Kolb hasn't shown enough yet to just be handed the keys to a Cadillac.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:26 PM
Kolb is good though, he struggled when he wasn't prepared (Baltimore, Carolina) but he lit it up when he was able to practice with the starters for two weeks, he was the first ever QB to throw for 300 yards in hist first 2 starts, throwing for 718 yards in two starts and also throwing 4 touchdowns while hitting his target 64.5 percent of the time.

51 attempts, Chiefs.

He had one real interception and it was not seeing a LB in the flat on a quick pass, the other 2 came in the 4th quarter of the Saints game on hail mary passes.

Really? This was a hail mary?

3rd and 5 at NO 11 (No Huddle, Shotgun) K.Kolb pass short right intended for B.Celek INTERCEPTED by D.Sharper at NO 3. D.Sharper for 97 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Kolb is the total package, he has the arm strength, the accuracy, intelligence, leadership, footwork, toughness, pocket presence etc. etc. the only thing with him is that he came out of a really weird system and would've taken time to adjust to the NFL and it is 4 years later and he has learned the ins and outs of the NFL while learning the scheme. The only problem I can foresee is that he forces things, in earlier relief efforts for McNabb, Kolb would really try and gun throws into small windows and he paid the price throwing interceptions but in two games this season he showed that he is capable of overcoming this problem.

This would be a funny if you weren't serious...

Boom, three years in the league and that stuff is all corrected, he now knows how to play in an NFL system and his mechanics are corrected.

Yes, we've seen that in a game where he threw against a prevent defense and...THE ******* CHIEFS.

And as for his deep ball, I'd say it is serviceable.

Great. One throw. Start the parade.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:27 PM
Passing numbers were inflated by playing in a passing system

Nope, nothing's changed.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 11:32 PM
Seriously...arguably the dumbest post in this Eagles forum's history. You've outdone yourself.

And you're defending McNabb? What the hell has he done? Against winning teams McNabb was a fantastic 3-5 and he choked in the most important games of the season. You just don't want change, McNabb can leave right now for all I care, the guy has done nothing but choke away nearly every big game in Eagles' history. His accuracy is some of the worst and sporadic in the NFL and his command of the team is obviously lacking.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:32 PM
Pass defense rankings...

New Orleans Saints

Yards per game- 25th
Yards per pass- 21st

Kansas City Chiefs

Yards per game- 30th
Yards per pass- 30th

Man, Kolb really lit up Darrelle Revis, Charles Woodson and Nnamdi Asomugha out there. ****, I'm sorry, Thumper. I can't believe I wasn't sold on Kolb. I mean, ZOMGZ FIRST QB EVER TO THROW FOR 300+ IN HIS FIRST TWO STARTS ZOMGZ ZOMGZ ROXORZ GR8TEST EVER!!!!!!!!

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:34 PM
And you're defending McNabb? What the hell has he done?

A hell of a lot more than the guy whose nuts you're slobbering over. 2.2:1 TD:INT ratio this year. Your golden boy was a stellar 1.33:1 despite playing two of the league's worst pass defenses.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 11:37 PM
And did you really just say that Kolb isn't more agile, has a better arm and is more intelligent than Feeley? Maybe you shouldn't do crack.

And I don't care about the damn Chiefs, what about all those bad teams McNabb beat up on? Forgetting about those are we? McNabb had a losing record against playoff teams losing to the Chargers and the Cowboys three times, that is 0-4.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:38 PM
Personally, I don't care if McNabb goes. (Whoops, Thumper, there goes your ******** "you just don't want change" argument) However, to act like Kevin Kolb is the next Tom Brady because he picked apart a couple JV secondaries on 80 bazillion passes is simply ridiculous. He still has no pocket presence, still gets rattled when he plays an NFL defense, still isn't all that mobile, and most of all, still isn't good.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:42 PM
And did you really just say that Kolb isn't more agile, has a better arm and is more intelligent than Feeley? Maybe you shouldn't do crack.

Mis-read it. Thought you meant McNabb.

And I don't care about the damn Chiefs, what about all those bad teams McNabb beat up on? Forgetting about those are we?

No. Stop pretending like I think McNabb is the greatest thing since Kevin Kolb's nut sweat.

McNabb had a losing record against playoff teams losing to the Chargers and the Cowboys three times, that is 0-4.

Actually, record doesn't matter, according to you. Look at this. ZOMGZ MCNABB THREW FOR 450 YARDS AGAINST SAN DIEGO!!!!!! YARDZ ARE TOTALLY ALL THAT MATTERZ!!!!!!1

You praise Kolb for throwing 300whatever amount of yards it was and three picks in a loss at home to New Orleans, but McNabb's garbage because he threw for 450, 2 TDs and 1 pick against San Diego on the road.

Also, you've been living under a ******* rock if you think I blindly defend McNabb for everything.

What was Kolb the God's record against playoff teams?

tjsunstein
01-18-2010, 11:43 PM
I wanna sig quote that whole post but it would take up too much space. That's epic.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 11:50 PM
Pass defense rankings...

New Orleans Saints

Yards per game- 25th
Yards per pass- 21st

Kansas City Chiefs

Yards per game- 30th
Yards per pass- 30th

Man, Kolb really lit up Darrelle Revis, Charles Woodson and Nnamdi Asomugha out there. ****, I'm sorry, Thumper. I can't believe I wasn't sold on Kolb. I mean, ZOMGZ FIRST QB EVER TO THROW FOR 300+ IN HIS FIRST TWO STARTS ZOMGZ ZOMGZ ROXORZ GR8TEST EVER!!!!!!!!

And McNabb did? Lol? When McNabb actually faced playoff teams, he lost, 4 times and when he faced a shut down corner, he lost.

And yeah McNabb is so great! ZOMFG in fact he is so great that in the two most important games of the season he sucked ass! #1 though right? Clearly this guy is going to get the Eagles a superbowl right? I mean he isn't 33 and had 11 years to get it done though right? Clearly he is taking the Eagles to the superbowl. Get McNabb out, I'm sick of his lackadaisical attitude, him choking in big games, him going hunting for worms, him getting happy feet, him getting injured, I'm sick of him missing wide open targets, him being erratic with his accuracy, I'm sick of him not seeing receivers open. Please get rid of McNabb the guy is a joke.

Thumper
01-18-2010, 11:55 PM
Mis-read it. Thought you meant McNabb.



No. Stop pretending like I think McNabb is the greatest thing since Kevin Kolb's nut sweat.



Actually, record doesn't matter, according to you. Look at this. ZOMGZ MCNABB THREW FOR 450 YARDS AGAINST SAN DIEGO!!!!!! YARDZ ARE TOTALLY ALL THAT MATTERZ!!!!!!1

You praise Kolb for throwing 300whatever amount of yards it was and three picks in a loss at home to New Orleans, but McNabb's garbage because he threw for 450, 2 TDs and 1 pick against San Diego on the road.

Also, you've been living under a ******* rock if you think I blindly defend McNabb for everything.

What was Kolb the God's record against playoff teams?

Do you realize how many of those yards came in the 4th quarters when the game was out of reach? McNabb didn't do **** all game against the Chargers until they played prevent defense.

0-1 and McNabb was 0-4 so you have no point, they both lost but at least Kolb looked respectable whereas McNabb put up huge stats in one of the games and completely sucked against the Cowboys three times in a row.

Sniper
01-18-2010, 11:58 PM
And McNabb did? Lol? When McNabb actually faced playoff teams, he lost, 4 times and when he faced a shut down corner, he lost.

Actually, record doesn't matter, according to you. Look at this. ZOMGZ MCNABB THREW FOR 450 YARDS AGAINST SAN DIEGO!!!!!! YARDZ ARE TOTALLY ALL THAT MATTERZ!!!!!!1

You praise Kolb for throwing 300whatever amount of yards it was and three picks in a loss at home to New Orleans, but McNabb's garbage because he threw for 450, 2 TDs and 1 pick against San Diego on the road.

What was Kolb the God's record against playoff teams?

Also, it was definitely all McNabb in the games that they lost. We're just going to conveniently ignore the lack of a running game and pass protection for the sake of your argument.

Rushing highs for the Eagles in the five games you just mentioned (OAK, SD, DAL X 3)

50, 54, 28, 17, 24.

Lots o' help. But hey, it doesn't matter, because he threw for a lot of yards, and at the end of the day, that's all that matters to you.

And yeah McNabb is so great!

Go ahead. Quote me where I said McNabb is great.

Please get rid of McNabb the guy is a joke.

Right, and Kolb is the Messiah!

Kolb The God had as many wins against playoff teams as McScrub did.

Sniper
01-19-2010, 12:01 AM
Do you realize how many of those yards came in the 4th quarters when the game was out of reach? McNabb didn't do **** all game against the Chargers until they played prevent defense.

Pot, meet kettle. Have you met?

0-1 and McNabb was 0-4 so you have no point

I certainly do. You'd think Kolb the God would win every game.

Anyway, I'm done with your ridiculous ********. Others have called you out on your stupidity, but hey, it must just be me. I haven't used the ignore list in a while. It's about that time. Maybe when you get banned again, you can come back under another user name like you did last time.

eaglesalltheway
01-19-2010, 12:05 AM
This thread is hilarious, I reallllllly need to work to get on here as often as I used to.

Thumper, all I have to say is that if you think Kolb is going to be an improvment over McNabb, even long-run, you gotta crawl out from underneath Kolb's pubes you been sucking...

Kolb showed promise, yes, I'll agree to that, but where, WHERE has he shown enough that makes you say he will make the Eagles better as the starting QB? He's started two games, and performed well, yes. He showed poise in the pocket in the face of pressure, that is what I saw and like th most. But he too got inaccurate for stretches and benefitted from both big plays by his receivers and poor secondary play.

McNabb's tenure hasn't won a championship, we all realize that? Will Kolb get us any closer? Probably not. Let McNabb at least play out his contract, and if Kolb gets some opportunities between now and then it will increase what we can know about him. Until then, all we know is Kolb can beat up on poor secondaries with a plethora of weapons. For the majority of his career, McNabb has beaten up secondaries, good and bad, with much less weapons to work with. Don't make a change just for the sake of making a change.

Thumper
01-19-2010, 12:08 AM
I'm not even saying Kolb is the messiah, I'm saying he is good, because well he is good and everyone in the Eagles organization thinks so as well. Kolb has more than adequate arm strength, better accuracy than McNabb, is mobile enough to make plays with his feet and create time. He is also a leader, just look at the report, the young players consult Kolb before McNabb and during the week 17 game that you didn't watch you see Kolb on the sideline telling McNabb things that he sees on the field. Andy Reid told Adam Caplan that the reason he liked Kolb so much is because he is so intelligent and that is noted in every single scouting report out there in 2007, where they say he has everything that you look for intangible wise, the leadership and the work ethic. He does throw too many interceptions but I'm willing to chance it and hand Kolb the keys to the team right now, because clearly he is already moving in on them with the young players consulting KOLB first.

vikes_28
01-19-2010, 12:13 AM
I wouldn't mind having McNabb on the Vikings. Hell, Brad Childress probably wouldn't mind either.

Brothgar
01-19-2010, 12:14 AM
I think it is great that Eagles fans are finally realizing what I've known for some time now. McNabb is over rated with inflated numbers. That said is Kolb the savior? If you asked me a few years ago I'd say hell no because of the way he played against the Lions that year in garbage time. But it is obvious he has grown as a QB. Although if I were only worried about next year I would take McNabb by a hair but if I am looking to develope our young base for the next 8-10 years I start Kolb.

Whistler6
01-19-2010, 12:17 AM
And you're defending McNabb? What the hell has he done? Against winning teams McNabb was a fantastic 3-5 and he choked in the most important games of the season. You just don't want change, McNabb can leave right now for all I care, the guy has done nothing but choke away nearly every big game in Eagles' history. His accuracy is some of the worst and sporadic in the NFL and his command of the team is obviously lacking.

Every Browns, Lions, and Bills fan of the past 10 years want to choke you out right now.

Thumper
01-19-2010, 12:22 AM
Every Browns, Lions, and Bills fan of the past 10 years want to choke you out right now.

DILLIGAF? Honestly you can go cheer for your sucky ass teams and dream of losing in the playoffs for an entire decade and I'll criticize my team and dream of a Lombardi Trophy. GTFO.

RaiderNation
01-19-2010, 12:45 AM
Id take him in Oakland lol

Monomach
01-19-2010, 12:49 AM
Dear Thumper,

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4172/girlyoucrazy.gif

brat316
01-19-2010, 10:47 AM
I think its a combo of Reid and McNabb.

Whistler6
01-19-2010, 10:55 AM
DILLIGAF? Honestly you can go cheer for your sucky ass teams and dream of losing in the playoffs for an entire decade and I'll criticize my team and dream of a Lombardi Trophy. GTFO.

I'm a Packer fan actually, but I guess I haven't been through the "lows" that you Eagle fans have since McNabb has been there. It has to be tough. Still, while I am having a hard time wrapping my head around your passionate hate towards this guy, I appreciate your devotion.

I would throw more aggression at Andy Reid for his pass heavy style and not developing a true running game. Maybe it is time for McNabb to go though and he has taken them as far as he can...I can think of about 12 teams who would be happy to take him from Philly.

ps. I'm not down with the whole abbreviation-lingo so those went way over my head.

eaglesalltheway
01-19-2010, 03:10 PM
I'm a Packer fan actually, but I guess I haven't been through the "lows" that you Eagle fans have since McNabb has been there. It has to be tough. Still, while I am having a hard time wrapping my head around your passionate hate towards this guy, I appreciate your devotion.

I would throw more aggression at Andy Reid for his pass heavy style and not developing a true running game. Maybe it is time for McNabb to go though and he has taken them as far as he can...I can think of about 12 teams who would be happy to take him from Philly.

ps. I'm not down with the whole abbreviation-lingo so those went way over my head.

I took me a while, but... Do I Look Like I Give a F***...

Thumper
01-19-2010, 04:24 PM
I took me a while, but... Do I Look Like I Give a F***...

Yep. Do I really care if any of those fans want to 'choke me out'? Because I don't.

And I don't hate McNabb, I actually think he is a nice guy and a guy that I would probably like off the field but I just don't think he is a great QB nor do I think he will ever become one. His leadership has always been questionable, he has never really taken charge of anything instead he was always the goofball who lightened the mood and while that is great on occassion, when you're missing wide open targets and having players running wrong routes that is not a time to smile and laugh and say "We'll get it soon *insert joke*." And what made him special earlier in his career was his arm strength and his mobility, his mechanics as far as pocket prescence and patience were never really there and now that his legs are getting older his old style of play isn't really working anymore. Toss in his fading arm strength and mobility to a wildy inaccurate arm and he is slowly fading into mediocrity.

I know some will point at this season and say that "He is coming off of a career year" well that is great and all but the numbers don't really tell the entire story, he had the most weapons of his entire career at his disposal and he still BARELY did better than any year he had with those mediocre weapons. And what you didn't see were all those deep balls that were off target but DeSean Jackson adjusted, there were multiple occassions where DeSean Jackson had to stop to catch the ball. I just think he is fading and that he isn't getting better and that no matter who the Eagles put at QB they're not winning a superbowl next year, but I think the sooner Kolb gets in and the more experience he gets the closer the Eagles will get.

I am not pulling all this Kolb stuff out of thin air, I'm not making stuff up (aside from an interception that I forgot). All you have to do is look at his games to see that Kevin Kolb has the arm strength to at least get the job done, I would say he is above average in that area he doesn't have a cannon like McNabb once had but Kolb has more than enough arm strength. His accuracy while spotty was more consistent than McNabb's he had a 64.5% completion rate in two games he started, he missed a few crossing patters specifically to Jeremy Maclin and Brian Westbrook but other than a few errors he was very accurate. And all sources say he is mobile enough to create time, he is a leader and he is intelligent all you have to do is read up about what Andy Reid says about him and what the report says about him to see that. Like I said he still forces throws on occassion but he has improved in that area a lot.

I just don't think McNabb can win it and that he is fading and I think Kolb is an ascending talent who is only going to get better. And I think that Kolb is going to do good things with the young players just because he seems like he is more of a business guy and that he is their age and there isn't a generation gap. Plus in light of the report you might be able to make the conclusion that he is a respected player in the lockerroom and that the younger players listen to him.

I don't hate McNabb but I am sick of seeing the other team win in clutch games and it is due in part to McNabb's inability to cope with clutch sitations and his inconsistency with his accuracy. I appreciate what McNabb did, he was a good QB for the entire decade but at this point I think Kolb is ready to take over and that eventually Kolb is going to have more success than McNabb in terms of postseason success. This is just my opinion.

brat316
01-19-2010, 04:51 PM
What makes Kolb clutch?

Thumper
01-19-2010, 05:04 PM
What makes Kolb clutch?

Did I say he was? I'm saying that judging by his intelligence and leadership skills I think that he may become more clutch than McNabb. I think Kolb's demeanor is better suited for tough situations than McNabb's goofy demeanor is. Is it true? That remains to be seen but for reasons I stated I think Kolb has the potential to be much better than McNabb in that area of the game.

brat316
01-19-2010, 07:32 PM
If the eagles do get ride of McNabb, and end up getting a first round pick.

I think they should try and get Clausen if he falls and they are in range, either with the first round pick they got or move up somehow. Why not keep the pressure on Kolb to preform? And if Kolb fails you have someone waiting and ready to try.

Thumper
01-19-2010, 09:39 PM
If the eagles do get ride of McNabb, and end up getting a first round pick.

I think they should try and get Clausen if he falls and they are in range, either with the first round pick they got or move up somehow. Why not keep the pressure on Kolb to preform? And if Kolb fails you have someone waiting and ready to try.

Because A. McNabb has little value on the trade market, aging player with fading skills and a full injury history and B. spending top picks on back-ups is stupid. And if the Eagles were going to get Juimmy Clausen they would have to be very high in the draft and there is absolutely no way the Eagles would pay that much money towards a back-up nor would they even be able to get him. Personally I like Sean Canfield as a back-up QB with potential kind of guy that can be had in the 3rd-4th rounds, but his stock might pass that and become a 2nd rounder.

Brothgar
01-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Because A. McNabb has little value on the trade market, aging player with fading skills and a full injury history and B. spending top picks on back-ups is stupid. And if the Eagles were going to get Juimmy Clausen they would have to be very high in the draft and there is absolutely no way the Eagles would pay that much money towards a back-up nor would they even be able to get him. Personally I like Sean Canfield as a back-up QB with potential kind of guy that can be had in the 3rd-4th rounds, but his stock might pass that and become a 2nd rounder.

There is about as much garentee that Clausen goes high as there was for Brady Quinn. I think it is almost certain that the Rams don't take him and fairly certain that the Skins don't take him so that leaves the Seahawks till he falls to the Panthers then out of the first round.

Sniper
01-19-2010, 10:35 PM
There is about as much garentee that Clausen goes high as there was for Brady Quinn. I think it is almost certain that the Rams don't take him and fairly certain that the Skins don't take him so that leaves the Seahawks till he falls to the Panthers then out of the first round.

Clausen won't fall out of the first. If he falls past the top 15, someone will trade back into the first round or trade up if they're a team that's picking later (Vikings?) to get him.

Brothgar
01-19-2010, 10:37 PM
Clausen won't fall out of the first. If he falls past the top 15, someone will trade back into the first round or trade up if they're a team that's picking later (Vikings?) to get him.

Oh yeah forgot about the Vikings. But I'm not really all that impressed with Clausen the more I look at him.

Sniper
01-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Oh yeah forgot about the Vikings. But I'm not really all that impressed with Clausen the more I look at him.

I'm about to defend two ND players in one day. I'm sorry, Michigan God.

7:1 TD:INT ratio, 8.76 ypa, 68% accuracy in a pro-style offense. What, exactly, is there not to like?

Brothgar
01-19-2010, 10:43 PM
I'm about to defend two ND players in one day. I'm sorry, Michigan God.

7:1 TD:INT ratio, 8.76 ypa, 68% accuracy in a pro-style offense. What, exactly, is there not to like?

I will have to get back to you.

tjsunstein
01-19-2010, 10:49 PM
There is so much fail in this thread that it actually makes me come back every time I see a new post.

Brothgar
01-19-2010, 11:20 PM
I'm about to defend two ND players in one day. I'm sorry, Michigan God.

7:1 TD:INT ratio, 8.76 ypa, 68% accuracy in a pro-style offense. What, exactly, is there not to like?

ZdLvtOxK5Ws

seems to me that Golden Tate has a lot to do with Clausen's success

Sniper
01-20-2010, 12:04 AM
Most of those throws could have been caught by a JV WR. It could also easily be switched around to say that Clausen had a lot to do with Tate's success.

Brothgar
01-20-2010, 07:51 AM
Most of those throws could have been caught by a JV WR. It could also easily be switched around to say that Clausen had a lot to do with Tate's success.

I'm looking mostly at the longer throws. Tate has to make many adjustments on longer routs. Long ball accuracy was one of the major kisses of death to Brady Quinn.

Kramer
01-20-2010, 10:35 AM
I really think we should keep McNabb, and at least let him play out his contract. How many other teams in the league have had more consistency from their QB for over a decade like us? While we haven't won any superbowls, McNabb definitely isn't fully responsible. For years it was because we didn't have enough playmakers on offense, and now our defense is our weakness. Right now I think McNabb is the better QB than Kevin Kolb and is the better answer for winning a superbowl next year.

I have always been a huge McNabb supporter, and would be very upset if they trade him. While Kolb is a great piece, we aren't a rebuilding team, just very young. Let McNabb play out his contract and get another shot at winning the Eagles their first superbowl. If that doesn't happen, than move on to Kolb.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 04:31 PM
Every single Eagles fan should read this article written by Tommy Lawlor.

http://www.scoutsnotebook.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=11882#11882

It is a fantastic piece on who the Eagles should keep, McNabb or Kolb and pretty much everything is analyzed and all situations are accounted for.

This part stands out to me because I think alot of Eagles fans want to take the safe route and keep McNabb, they're scared of switching things up.
The Eagles have a hard decision to make no matter how you look at it. There is risk involved. Drew Bledsoe was a sacred cow for the Pats back in 2001 when he got hurt. Tom Brady stepped in and never gave the job back. Drew had some success in Buffalo and Dallas, but wasn't a special QB anymore. Jim Kelly was a veteran QB in the mid 90s who started to lose his A-game. The Bills let go of him and gave the job to their young guy, Todd Collins. Todd sat for 2 years, prepping for his chance. He struggled as a starter and was off the team following that year. The Bills have been looking for a QB ever since. Getting rid of a franchise QB can be a dangerous thing, but other times it is the right thing to do.

Todd Bertuzzi
01-20-2010, 04:51 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 05:16 PM
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Who said it is working? McNabb statistically had a good season but if you actually look at his play he had one of his worst seasons, a 45% completion rate in the redzone, 8 touchdowns and 5 interceptions on the six game win streak and was 13/35 in the second half of the final two regular season games. And his performance against Dallas was atrocious.

If it isn't broken already it is clearly starting to stutter and backfire.

Todd Bertuzzi
01-20-2010, 05:18 PM
Who said it is working? McNabb statistically had a good season but if you actually look at his play he had one of his worst seasons, a 45% completion rate in the redzone, 8 touchdowns and 5 interceptions on the six game win streak and was 13/35 in the second half of the final two regular season games. And his performance against Dallas was atrocious.

If it isn't broken already it is clearly starting to stutter and backfire.

Two words: play calling.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 05:29 PM
Two words: play calling.

Please elaborate. Playcalling has nothing to do with the fact that he is inaccurate and has happy feet.

Todd Bertuzzi
01-20-2010, 05:34 PM
Please elaborate. Playcalling has nothing to do with the fact that he is inaccurate and has happy feet.

Well when we pass 80% of the time it allows defenses to just blitz and play the pass which leads to McNabb being pressured and wide receivers being covered down field which leads to bad numbers.

brat316
01-20-2010, 05:48 PM
Please elaborate. Playcalling has nothing to do with the fact that he is inaccurate and has happy feet.

How about the consistent deep routes someone kept calling against the dallas D? Even though they were not working.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 08:00 PM
Yeah the play calling sucked but we can't just say McNabb you're excused because Andy Reid calls too many pass plays, he is this supposed top QB in the NFL and he can't handle a pass heavy gameplan? Even after all these years? Bad playcalling still doesn't explain his horrible accuracy, happy feet, checkdowns etc. etc. and he had more than enough time the first time around, MORE than enough to make plays. Bad playcalling doesn't excuse all those times he didn't see Avant open or the time where he had a bad throw for Maclin and a couple times where he missed a wide open DeSean Jackson.

And did any of you actually read that?

brat316
01-20-2010, 08:16 PM
I give you the the dirt balls and bad accuracy but you are making him seem like he is Jabust Russel.

I still think there is trade value in McNabb, now that Qbs play longer and he doesn't have any outstanding injury concerns, you can still get a 1st round pick. Or like 2nd and 3rd or 4th.

I just think Kolb is not much than a glorified backup.

Brothgar
01-20-2010, 08:18 PM
Yeah the play calling sucked but we can't just say McNabb you're excused because Andy Reid calls too many pass plays, he is this supposed top QB in the NFL and he can't handle a pass heavy gameplan? Even after all these years? Bad playcalling still doesn't explain his horrible accuracy, happy feet, checkdowns etc. etc. and he had more than enough time the first time around, MORE than enough to make plays. Bad playcalling doesn't excuse all those times he didn't see Avant open or the time where he had a bad throw for Maclin and a couple times where he missed a wide open DeSean Jackson.

And did any of you actually read that?

I'm about to defend McNabb to an Eagle's fan I think this is the first sign of the appocolyps.

Terrible playcalling explains all those things.

Lets see if we can dissect each one.

80% pass play calls -> high % blitz plays by opposing D's -> QB hit many times -> less time to throw -> checkdowns, happy feet, and missing Avant on your progressions (my guess is that Jason Avant wasn't the primary target many times) -> poor throwing mechanics (not able to plant your feet etc) -> poor accuracy .

Thumper
01-20-2010, 08:23 PM
I give you the the dirt balls and bad accuracy but you are making him seem like he is Jabust Russel.

I still think there is trade value in McNabb, now that Qbs play longer and he doesn't have any outstanding injury concerns, you can still get a 1st round pick. Or like 2nd and 3rd or 4th.

I just think Kolb is not much than a glorified backup.

He sure played like Jamarcus the last 2 1/2 games... Just sayin' (Just barely 50% passer, 2 interceptions, 5 fumbles)

And yes there is trade value in McNabb but he is worth about a second or a third at the most, aging QBs with fading skills and a huge injury history don't typically fetch you much on the trade market.

Kolb has been the future starting QB since the day he was drafted.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 08:24 PM
Every single Eagles fan should read this article written by Tommy Lawlor.

http://www.scoutsnotebook.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=11882#11882

It is a fantastic piece on who the Eagles should keep, McNabb or Kolb and pretty much everything is analyzed and all situations are accounted for.

This part stands out to me because I think alot of Eagles fans want to take the safe route and keep McNabb, they're scared of switching things up.

Bump, I'm not kidding all of you should read this.

Kramer
01-20-2010, 09:29 PM
I am just concerned with the risk of trading McNabb, I mean QB isn't our main issue right now, and if we get rid of McNabb, is it making us a better team for next season? Is Kolb really all that? Is the front office willing to trade the best QB in franchise history risking our chances of winning the Superbowl? Is Kolb an upgrade? Whats his ceiling? I know he has a different game than McNabb, but does he have the same potential? Maybe not but I guess he could make up for that with consistency.

We will see, I am a big McNabb supporter, but he can be very frustrating at times. But I don't think he was the main reason why we lost the Dallas games. I think we have to fix our defense and add depth to our O-Line before trading our franchise QB in favor of a guy who had one really good game against the Chiefs.

Thumper
01-20-2010, 09:39 PM
I am just concerned with the risk of trading McNabb, I mean QB isn't our main issue right now, and if we get rid of McNabb, is it making us a better team for next season? Is Kolb really all that? Is the front office willing to trade the best QB in franchise history risking our chances of winning the Superbowl? Is Kolb an upgrade? Whats his ceiling? I know he has a different game than McNabb, but does he have the same potential? Maybe not but I guess he could make up for that with consistency.

We will see, I am a big McNabb supporter, but he can be very frustrating at times. But I don't think he was the main reason why we lost the Dallas games. I think we have to fix our defense and add depth to our O-Line before trading our franchise QB in favor of a guy who had one really good game against the Chiefs.

I think the Eagles can be as good or better next season with Kolb and not because of Kolb. I understand fearing the trading of McNabb, like we said franchise passers don't grow on trees but I feel like Kolb has the tools and he is within a system that can allow him to be or become a franchise QB. But the real value of losing McNabb is that he will bring extra talent most likely through draft picks. The Eagles defense was really exposed and they need help at LE, SLB, FS, SS and CB and they need depth at MLB and better depth at DE, the defense as a whole was boosted by playing weak teams and those extra picks a McNabb trade could bring in would be a huge boost to a defense that is suddenly seemingly mediocre, especially along the defensive line. And I think at the very least Kolb showed he can move the ball up and down the field and lead a high octane offense.

Kramer
01-20-2010, 09:46 PM
I think the Eagles can be as good or better next season with Kolb and not because of Kolb. I understand fearing the trading of McNabb, like we said franchise passers don't grow on trees but I feel like Kolb has the tools and he is within a system that can allow him to be or become a franchise QB. But the real value of losing McNabb is that he will bring extra talent most likely through draft picks. The Eagles defense was really exposed and they need help at LE, SLB, FS, SS and CB and they need depth at MLB and better depth at DE, the defense as a whole was boosted by playing weak teams and those extra picks a McNabb trade could bring in would be a huge boost to a defense that is suddenly seemingly mediocre, especially along the defensive line. And I think at the very least Kolb showed he can move the ball up and down the field and lead a high octane offense.

You make some good points, however if we do trade McNabb, it would obviously have to be for the right price. By no means should we be desperate to trade him. We are actually in a good position right now. Plenty of teams need a QB, and I am sure a lot will be calling, and they know that we don't NEED to get rid of McNabb, so they would know to make a great offer.

I am just a huge McNabb supporter and he has been the starting QB for the Eagles ever since I became a fan, and it would be tough for me. Seeing Dawkins leave was pretty rough and it came back to bite us.

Brothgar
01-21-2010, 11:06 AM
Bump, I'm not kidding all of you should read this.

I read the overly long synapsis of something very simple. Donny Mc has been over rated for a long time. I've said so for years streaky completely folds under pressure (big game pressure and pass rush pressure). Also he is right if you want to compete next year you keep McNabb if you want to win in the future you gamble on Kolb.

As for McNabb's trade value you would only get a late 2nd this year (I'm looking at you Vikings)

Also Thumper since I replied to your post about the "article" please respond to my post at the end of the last page.

Thumper
01-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Broth, he does things like that even without pressure in his face and in the first Dallas game he had the time to do whatever he wanted for most of the game.

Anyways.

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=20153

Odd, I didn't expect the Eagles website to post an article on this because the website is A.) typically censored by Joe Banner and co. B.) Run by Spadaro who thinks McNabb and all the other starters are great and the Eagles are fine and C.) The site typically avoids controversial topics like this one.

Essentially what it talks about is trade scenarios for McNabb, mostly Vikings and Cardinals based on retirement decisions from Warner and Favre. Whats interesting is that the Eagles website typically doesn't jump the gun on moves like this and whenever something like this is posted it is typically a sort of 'trial balloon' to test public opinion and start to get the idea out there.

I don't think this has implications of any kind but it just strikes me as odd because Spadaro typically avoids this kind of thing.

Thumper
02-16-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm not the only one who thinks this...

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2010/2/16/1313357/2010/2/16/1313357/scouts-inc-evaluates-kevin-kolb

Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc for an evaluation of young Eagle QB.
"He’s been very impressive in limited snaps, going back to preseason. Although last year he got thrown into action when [Donovan] McNabb got benched against the Baltimore Ravens, and he looked horrible. But that was the worst-case scenario for the poor guy, too, to go into the second half against one of the best defenses in the league with no preparation. So you tend to wash that away. But since then Kolb has really stepped it up, and I am high on him. I think he can make every throw. He's a quick decision-maker, and he's a good enough athlete. Kolb has everything you want physically, and the ball comes out of his hand really nice. He has an awful lot of upside, almost like a Matt Schaub when he was in Atlanta or Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay [waiting] behind Brett Favre. Kolb just needs to get a crack at it. I kind of feel like he's the next guy to be breaking out, either with his present team or with a new team. Considering what some of the teams are starting in this league, I would start Kolb today, still being more of an unknown, over 10 or 12 starting quarterbacks for sure."

I am completely supportive of this guys opinion of Kolb.

Morton
02-18-2010, 12:03 PM
Two things, also, to remember when discussing Kolb:

1.) In the 2008 Ravens game, people point to the interception return by Ed Reed when calling out Kolb's performance. What people forget, however, is that after stepping in for McNabb, despite his limited experience starting for the Eagles, he moved the ball down field with remarkable ease until he was picked off in the red zone by, arguably the best ball-hawking safety in the NFL. So, really, being picked off by Ed Reed as a rookie with little experience is probably not something to be overly ashamed of. What impressed me was that Kolb moved the ball with ease when alot of other backup quarterbacks would have struggled to do even that against the Ravens.

2.) People point to Kolb's loss vs. the Saints as a reason to downplay his abilities. Yes, he threw a few costly interceptions, but again, this was his first real start, and - get this - he was facing the Super Bowl winning defense loaded with ball-hawking safeties and cornerbacks (Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter). If these guys could pick off Peyton Manning to win the Super Bowl, I'm sure getting an interception or two against the a quarterback making his first-ever NFL start is to be expected. And again, except for those interceptions, Kolb played reasonably well. It's not as if he couldn't make any plays at all. He threw for some touchdowns, and moved the ball efficiently.

After a year or two of playing time as the starter, there's a good reason to believe he'll be better than he was in those two starts by leaps and bounds... and that is incredibly promising if you realize that he looked *decent*, given the circumstances, against those two elite defenses (2008 Ravens = elite, 2009 Saints = elite).

Sniper
02-18-2010, 01:12 PM
2009 Saints = elite

Um, what?

New Orleans finished...

25th in ypg
13th in ppg
25th in pass defense

Where, exactly, is this "elite" defense?

superman8456
02-18-2010, 05:10 PM
I think we're too young to be able to win a SB. Part of the reason I wouldn't mind trading McNabb. The offense would be able to grow with each other and probably be a real competitor in two years if McNabb gets traded. If we keep McNabb, we will win more games. Period. We may have a slight chance to make a deep playoff run as well. This is all pretty basic and I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

In my opinion, even if we keep McNabb, I don't think our defense (*not a fan of Sean McDermott underperforming with our defensive talent*) would be able to help us win games anymore. So pretty much if we keep the QB that gives us a better chance to win, we will probably lose the closer games. I say trade McNabb, get as much value for him, give Kolb the keys to the kingdom and let him grow with the young players in our offense. I'm prepared for the growing pains I know I'm going to have to deal with, with Kolb.

tjsunstein
02-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Awful spelling of the guy's name in the title.

Morton
02-18-2010, 05:54 PM
Um, what?

New Orleans finished...

25th in ypg
13th in ppg
25th in pass defense

Where, exactly, is this "elite" defense?

Remember that for the latter part of the year, their two best cornerbacks were injured and they had to start some scrubs at that position until Tracy Porter and Jabari Greer came back from their injuries for the playoffs.

When they had Porter & Greer in, the pass defense was very good. According to DVOA, Greer was the second best cornerback behind Derelle Revis this past year.

I'm sure alot of the ypg/ppg numbers were skewed by the bad cornerbacks they had on the field after the injuries and they played poorly, but in the first half of the year their defense was great against the pass. Perhaps they didn't give up the fewest points like, say, the Jets, but they were near the top in takeaways, due in no small part to the interception skills of guys like Darren Sharper, Tracy Porter, and Jabari Greer in their secondary.

Not only that, but their run defense was rather poor, despite their pass defense being good. So when I was referring to their defense being elite, I was mostly referring to their secondary, which is what part of the defense Kolb specifically was playing against.

And anyway, the point is that Kolb was playing against the defense that stopped Peyton Manning from winning the Super Bowl... all numbers aside, any defense that stops Peyton Manning has gotta be good.

Morton
02-18-2010, 05:58 PM
In my opinion, even if we keep McNabb, I don't think our defense (*not a fan of Sean McDermott underperforming with our defensive talent*) would be able to help us win games anymore. So pretty much if we keep the QB that gives us a better chance to win, we will probably lose the closer games. I say trade McNabb, get as much value for him, give Kolb the keys to the kingdom and let him grow with the young players in our offense. I'm prepared for the growing pains I know I'm going to have to deal with, with Kolb.

To be fair to McDermott, he actually didn't have all that much talent to work with. The linebacking corps this year was really, really sketchy, and our secondary is pretty overrated. Sheldon Brown is starting to show signs of aging, and Asante Samuel is really only good at jumping routes and getting interceptions here and there. And of course, our free safety situation was just abysmal, which in turn makes Mikell look alot worse.

Brothgar
02-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Really we've overanayzed a simple set of questions when thinking of the trading McNabb issue.

1. What is the likelyhood of McNabb wining a SB wthin 3 yers (Andy Reid's extension).

2. Will another team pay an adequate price for him.

Here's my take:

1. For this question we have to look at 3 things
a. his record
b. his health
c. the direction of the team.

a. McNabb has made the playoffs all but two seaons. In his career NFC Championship a couple of times SB once. On the cusp or stalling out.

b. Based on the trend he should have a full season next year. But having never had two strait seasons injury free is troublsome.

c. The team is young on O and an aging D is it time to rebuild or take 1 more shot?

2. McNabb isn't going to a rebuilding team it would be futile. This leaves two teams Cards and Vikes if Favre retires. Outside shot at Jags, Raiders, Titans and Broncos. If Favre comes back and Cards like Matt you could see noone willing to trade for him.

The plan: Bide your time listen to offers but don't activly shop him. 1st and 3rd was what Det got for Roy. 2 2nds for Schawb. 2 1st for Cutler. It seems like every year a top QB goes down then that team gets desperate. Teams always over value picks in the off season so bring them both into camp give the kid a legit chance to start and get more for the 2011 draft and put a big dent in the comming rebuild.