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View Full Version : How do you believe Tim Tebow's running ability and athleticism will translate?


Halsey
01-11-2010, 01:52 PM
I hear and see plenty of discussion on how Tebow will adapt to passing in the NFL, changing his throwing motion, learning an NFL offense, etc. What I actually don't see much of is debate on how his ability to avoid the pass rush and move the chains with his legs will translate. Critics say he doesn't have the speed to run effectively in the NFL and supporters point out his impressive college production playing vs future NFL talent. I don't remember ever seeing a QB prospect who may have the potential to be an effective inside runner in the NFL.

Hawk
01-11-2010, 01:52 PM
So you're saying he will be a quarterback in teh NFL?

RedVision
01-11-2010, 01:55 PM
Depend on what "run effectively" really means. He'll be good for 400 per year at least, kinda like Aaron Rodgers. He could be used for some QB draw, but i don't see him used much as a battering-ram in short yardage. Not because he can't, because no OC in the NFL will let his QB get hit like that 5-6 times a game on purpose.

Halsey
01-11-2010, 02:17 PM
So you're saying he will be a quarterback in teh NFL?

That's up to you, I guess. What position do you think he'll play, and how will he fair as a runner at that position?

Babylon
01-11-2010, 02:35 PM
I actually think he'll have zero designed runs at the next level. His legs will help him move the chains on 3rd down when a play breaks down. Didnt see that option in the poll by the way.

BeerBaron
01-11-2010, 02:39 PM
It is so hard to say without knowing how he'll be used.....I went with "well" since no matter where he's playing, i think his athleticism will help.

I'm part of the crowd that believes there is no way we will know how he is going to be used or even where he's going to be taken until his name comes up to the stage on a card.

descendency
01-11-2010, 07:03 PM
I actually think he'll have zero designed runs at the next level. His legs will help him move the chains on 3rd down when a play breaks down. Didnt see that option in the poll by the way.

This. No one is currently effectively doing what Tebow is doing at UF. He will basically have the option to take off on 3rd downs to get 1sts when he can get them, but I doubt you will see QB draws or dives or any other designed run.

nepg
01-11-2010, 07:05 PM
He's not that fast or elusive. He's able to run in college because he's big and unafraid of contact. He'll get destroyed if he tries to run in the NFL.

KCJ58
01-11-2010, 07:06 PM
Tim Tebow will play QB in the NFL he has no other choice

Paranoidmoonduck
01-11-2010, 07:43 PM
If he can turn himself into an NFL quarterback (which is a massive 'if' in my book), then he should be a mobile and strong runner. He'd probably be closer to bigger runners like Elway or a young McNabb (he's not quite as shifty as the latter though). Definitely enough to present a threat.

Whether he ever gets the chance to play that sort of role depends on how much he can develop as a passer though.

JohnConner
01-11-2010, 10:33 PM
I see absolutely no reason why with his size and strength, and underrated speed, he should not, at the very least, have a Vince Young type impact. It may take a year or two to get comfortable in a pro style offense, but I just don't see this guy failing, he is a born winner, and you just don't bet against those types of guys.

JohnConner
01-11-2010, 10:51 PM
because he's a worse passer than young. because he's nowhere near as fast as young. because he's nowhere near as elusive as young. because, basically, he's nowhere near as nfl-ready as even young was coming in.

how many user ids do you actually need?

Wow, first off, if you don't agree with me that's fine, but you don't have to be so rude about it. Secondly, I don't know what you mean about user id's, and third, Young ran a 4.57 at his pro day, I don't think Tebow will be that much, if at all, slower.

descendency
01-11-2010, 10:53 PM
Wow, first off, if you don't agree with me that's fine, but you don't have to be so rude about it. Secondly, I don't know what you mean about user id's, and third, Young ran a 4.57 at his pro day, I don't think Tebow will be that much, if at all, slower.

His post isn't rude. He's just telling you how, quite frankly, vince young was a better prospect coming out. VY would fit more systems (college or pro) than Tebow would. Tebow is in the best system he could possibly be. If he comes out and lights up the NFL, then scouting should just be stopped and randomized drafting should occur.

edit: I like Tebow more than Young at times. I think he has the things that would have made young a superstar in the NFL. However, I think Tebow lacks basic qualifiers to even succeed, mainly his throwing motion which if corrected, doesn't guarantee his accuracy or any other of his attributes translate to his new style.

JohnConner
01-11-2010, 10:58 PM
His post isn't rude. He's just telling you how, quite frankly, vince young was a better prospect coming out. VY would fit more systems (college or pro) than Tebow would. Tebow is in the best system he could possibly be. If he comes out and lights up the NFL, then scouting should just be stopped and randomized drafting should occur.

I'm sorry I just don't see that, Young has that awkward side arm delivery, does not have a high football IQ, and is not as athletic as everyone seems to say he is. He is not anywhere near the athlete that Mike Vick was, or for that matter Steve Young. Tebow is a very athletic QB, who has all the intangibles, I just have a feeling that he will prove everyone wrong and become a playmaker at the position. The arrogance of the previous poster was pretty obvious by the way. I guess he is Jesus

descendency
01-11-2010, 11:14 PM
Tebow is a stronger, more powerful runner than VY. However, struggles against stronger linebackers (more NFL like) and even safeties, in terms of running. I don't think that aspect translates.

I'm not worried about the release point of Tebow's delivery. I'm concerned about it starting at his thigh and being released at his head with average velocity. People who have long deliveries that succeed in the NFL have high velocity passes. People who have odd ball releases (side arm and 3/4 releases) move in the pocket to compensate.

As a prospect, I'd take a gamble on Tebow (as I've said multiple times, I think he has potential to play lots of positions based on his size, football IQ, work ethic, etc). However, most of that potential is as a project. At the worst, I think he's a kick coverage specialist. At best, I think he's a QB. In Between, a FB, H-Back, TE, Z-WR, and potentially a linebacker (size, speed combo with his strength... would have to learn coverages and technique though). Lots of people disagree. I'd especially take it if he's going to be available in the mid to late 3rd (I'd even trade up if I didn't have a pick there). But He'll end up being a 1st rounder who will have to develop.

The amount of stuff he has to learn to play any position (even QB) is substantial. He has a total of 4 career snaps from center. 0 passes from it. he doesn't make progressions (a product of said offense). He has little to no pocket presence. He has terrible footwork.

Everyone comes up with the "well, they'll tailor the offense to fit him" but you can't expect that on a good team and on a bad team I doubt he lasts very long. I mean, even if St Louis, for example, decided to draft him and build an offense around him, they'd have to draft a new running back (trade steven jackson), draft possession WRs. They'd have to run a ZBS on their OL. That's to allow the guy to run a system that will get eaten alive in the NFL because NFL defensive ends can actually make the play against the types of runs that the option relies on.

Sure, Vince Young ran a similar gimmick offense (similar in that it's a lame college gimmick that high schools run because their QBs are unable to run anything that requires developed defense reading). Personally, I don't think Vince Young is that good either. But somehow he continues to win...

yourfavestoner
01-12-2010, 04:43 PM
Tebow's stock has gotten lower and lower to me with each passing season. It's almost disturbing how much he has regressed as a passer since his sophomore year.

RealityCheck
01-12-2010, 04:54 PM
I actually think he'll have zero designed runs at the next level. His legs will help him move the chains on 3rd down when a play breaks down. Didnt see that option in the poll by the way.
Quoted for truth.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Steve from NYC is an asshole.

MizzouBig12
01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
Tebow's stock has gotten lower and lower to me with each passing season. It's almost disturbing how much he has regressed as a passer since his sophomore year.
Wow. Yeah, he had a terrible game against Cincinnati, he couldn't hit the side of a barn;-) I seem to remember another East Coast QB that came out a few years ago, great athlete, but a quirky throwing motion. Many "experts" thought that it wasn't correctable. I guess they were right, that Philip Rivers guy sure sucks.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-12-2010, 05:30 PM
Eo-KmOd3i7s

no bare feet
01-12-2010, 05:31 PM
Quirky throwing motions should not be compared to a very slow ugly elongated disgusting motions.

prock
01-12-2010, 05:32 PM
i got a question, why the hell would the Team Chaplain be running the ball?

D-Unit
01-12-2010, 05:37 PM
With Michael Vick possibly leaving Philly, I could see Tebow fill that role for them. ...or a similar role on another team. Like Pat White in Miami. I have a hard time seeing him as a full time QB, but I do see him as a QB. I like to think of him as a dynamic weapon on offense that could be used in special situations. Just like he was used as a Freshman at Florida when Chris Leak was the starter.

no bare feet
01-12-2010, 05:40 PM
With Michael Vick possibly leaving Philly, I could see Tebow fill that role for them. ...or a similar role on another team. Like Pat White in Miami. I have a hard time seeing him as a full time QB, but I do see him as a QB. I like to think of him as a dynamic weapon on offense that could be used in special situations. Just like he was used as a Freshman at Florida when Chris Leak was the starter.

Which ever teams drafts Tebow will adopt the wing t and start using the jump pass. The new offensive gimmick!

descendency
01-12-2010, 05:43 PM
With Michael Vick possibly leaving Philly, I could see Tebow fill that role for them. ...or a similar role on another team. Like Pat White in Miami. I have a hard time seeing him as a full time QB, but I do see him as a QB. I like to think of him as a dynamic weapon on offense that could be used in special situations. Just like he was used as a Freshman at Florida when Chris Leak was the starter.

This is the single thing that irritates me more than anything else. If you have an elite QB, you don't take them off the field unless it's due to injury or due to the offense coming off the field. McNabb is arguably elite (although I think he chokes too much...)

This gimmick garbage should stop. Notice the teams still remaining have a grand total of 1 QB that plays per team... Coincidence? No.

The Wildcat is an epic failure post that one game against the Patriots. The addition of a Wildcat QB further enforces this failure. If they can't throw the ball good enough to be on the field regularly, then they should go warm the bench and hold the clip board for the QB at least.

prock
01-12-2010, 05:44 PM
This is the single thing that irritates me more than anything else. If you have an elite QB, you don't take them off the field unless it's due to injury or due to the offense coming off the field. McNabb is arguably elite (although I think he chokes too much...)

This gimmick garbage should stop. Notice the teams still remaining have a grand total of 1 QB that plays per team... Coincidence? No.

The Wildcat is an epic failure post that one game against the Patriots. The addition of a Wildcat QB further enforces this failure. If they can't throw the ball good enough to be on the field regularly, then they should go warm the bench and hold the clip board for the QB at least.

wow. i couldnt agree with you more. this was awesome.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-12-2010, 05:50 PM
The wildcat isn't dead. The wildcat is the offense where the QB lines up wide and an RB takes the snap. That's the wildcat, and Miami with a healthy Ron Brown runs it to a t. The thing where they sub their QB out and bring in a guy who can't throw? Yeah, that's stupid and is pretty much dead. All those teams are trying to copy Miami and all of them are doinitwrong.

descendency
01-12-2010, 05:54 PM
The wildcat isn't dead. The wildcat is the offense where the QB lines up wide and an RB takes the snap. That's the wildcat, and Miami with a healthy Ron Brown runs it to a t. The thing where they sub their QB out and bring in a guy who can't throw? Yeah, that's stupid and is pretty much dead. All those teams are trying to copy Miami and all of them are doinitwrong.

What Miami is doing is kind of smart actually. They put a power runner in behind a power run blocking group and just run at weaker run defenses. If you can't stop it, you can't stop it.

But Miami isn't exactly as successful as people think. I know there are statistics that show how successful it is per play. I wasn't impressed last time I saw them. I think it hurts the development of QBs like Chad Henne who could be your next big name QB.

D-Unit
01-12-2010, 06:06 PM
This is the single thing that irritates me more than anything else. If you have an elite QB, you don't take them off the field unless it's due to injury or due to the offense coming off the field. McNabb is arguably elite (although I think he chokes too much...)

This gimmick garbage should stop. Notice the teams still remaining have a grand total of 1 QB that plays per team... Coincidence? No.

The Wildcat is an epic failure post that one game against the Patriots. The addition of a Wildcat QB further enforces this failure. If they can't throw the ball good enough to be on the field regularly, then they should go warm the bench and hold the clip board for the QB at least.
You may be right about the current landscape of the remaining teams. But the NFL is always changing. The game will be different as time goes on. Look at the way the RB has changed? Now a RB by committee is the norm, but if we used your method of justification 3-4 years ago, you'd be dead wrong. It'd be like saying, "If you have an elite RB, you don't take them off the field unless it's due to injury.." I know the QB is a different postion altogether, but the NFL is all about creating mismatches, confusing the defense and innovation.

Nebraska and a few other small schools were the only ones kicking out these types of QBs... now it's getting more and more widespread. Schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, West Virginia and others are doing it. It's only going to lead to more in the NFL.

These types of kids used to be happy using their skills at RB/WR... but today's kids want to use their skills at the all important.. QB position.

The future is coming.... Fast. Tebow is just another in the beginning stages of this trend which will occur more and more in the NFL.

PossibleCabbage
01-17-2010, 10:08 PM
Not so well, he runs like a fullback and you don't see a lot of FB types tearing up the NFL in terms of rushing. If you were to line him up as an H-Back he could be an effective out-of-the-backfield receiving threat (if he can catch), but I don't trust a guy to run my offense when he takes the sort of hits that Tebow is apt to take if he runs in the NFL like he ran in college.

As leery as I am about running QBs, I definitely prefer QBs who make people miss to QBs who run people over. The latter is going to take a lot more hits than any other QB in the league, and the more hits your QB takes the more likely you are going to be looking to replace him later in the season. As good as the defenses are in the SEC (but let's face it, the bottom of the conference is as weak as any other major conference), he's never had to play a 16 game season against NFL defenses. Hell, the best defenses he saw in college weren't allowed to hit him because he was wearing a red jersey.

The economics of the NFL (i.e. how much it costs to acquire and keep a starting QB of above-average caliber) means that it's simply never going to be feasible to subject your offensive leader to unnecessary hits. Teams, having to fill 25+ other positions who will see significant playing time simply do not and will not ever have the resources to have two "starting quarterbacks" so that one of them can get banged around in there and the other one can come in when the first guy can't go. But exceptional quarterback play is the simplest way to vault a team into contention, so I don't think that how NFL teams treat quarterbacks is really going to start trending towards "being less careful".

I don't think the wildcat is done in the NFL (nor is it really new, it's just the single wing or the wing T with a fancy name), and it's always going to be at least moderately effective because it gives you 11-on-11 in rushing plays, while a running out of a traditional set only gives you 10-on-11 (the QB takes himself out of the play after handing off the ball with few exceptions). But QBs are too valuable to subject to unnecessary abuse, so the way to run it is to get a gaggle of running backs (who tend to be undervalued) and hope that one of them can throw the ball 10 yards if need be. The way not to run it is to get a bunch of quarterbacks (who tend to be overvalued) and subject them to more abuse than their peers.

Da-Phins
01-17-2010, 11:37 PM
This is the single thing that irritates me more than anything else. If you have an elite QB, you don't take them off the field unless it's due to injury or due to the offense coming off the field. McNabb is arguably elite (although I think he chokes too much...)

This gimmick garbage should stop. Notice the teams still remaining have a grand total of 1 QB that plays per team... Coincidence? No.

The Wildcat is an epic failure post that one game against the Patriots. The addition of a Wildcat QB further enforces this failure. If they can't throw the ball good enough to be on the field regularly, then they should go warm the bench and hold the clip board for the QB at least.

No, it really isnt. The Wildcat had an average of like 5 yards per play and the Dolphins have scored many times out of that formation. Ricky sucked at it and thats why we ditched it when Ronnie got hurt. Ronnie is what makes the Wildcat do good for us.

Now to this thread, I think Tebow will be at best an average player who can play different roles. He will be a guy that will def fire the team up when the team needs it and he has the attitude, confidence, heart, leadership every team is looking for.