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SanFran
03-12-2007, 11:31 PM
What is the Best Defensive Scheme in the NFL?

etk
03-12-2007, 11:42 PM
Good poll! I voted Tampa 2 because I am a homer, but 3-4 is the best, most fun and most exciting. If I was a coach I would run it.

SanFran
03-12-2007, 11:44 PM
Good poll! I voted Tampa 2 because I am a homer, but 3-4 is the best, most fun and most exciting. If I was a coach I would run it.

I will coach that in near future once i'm done college

Komp
03-12-2007, 11:57 PM
I personally like the 4-3 defense the most and the 3-4 has some pretty cool aspects to it as well.

bearsfan_51
03-13-2007, 12:03 AM
The 4-3 isn't a scheme itself. In fact the only one that actually is a scheme is the Tampa 2. The rest are just formations. Might need to know the difference if you're going to be a coach.

mcdlaxbonz13
03-13-2007, 12:04 AM
i think the 3-4, very exciting to watch, tough for the quarterback to get a read on a 3-4 defense also

Shiver
03-13-2007, 12:05 AM
If it was between 3-4 and 4-3, I personally prefer a 4-3 front.

bored of education
03-13-2007, 12:08 AM
ehh shoot i think its the F-B 3-4

bored of education
03-13-2007, 12:11 AM
but the 3-4 zb is nice with the right personel

Microphon200
03-13-2007, 12:37 AM
ehh shoot i think its the F-B 3-4

3-4 is all about trying to be sexy.

BlindSite
03-13-2007, 12:39 AM
43, I think its just as versatile than the 34, just better at certain aspects.

The Cover two I'd say is the weakest, but can also be the best if it has the right players.

doingthisinsteadofwork
03-13-2007, 12:44 AM
I'll take the 4-3.But it depends on who is the DC.

bored of education
03-13-2007, 12:48 AM
3-4 is all about trying to be sexy.

If you don't know what the FB 34 is then don't ever quote me again.

niel89
03-13-2007, 01:03 AM
i went other, as a ravens fan i really enjoyed the 3-4/4-3 hybrid we ran because it was really exciting to watch, we had very good personel to run it and because it was the #1 defense this year.

it can bring a lot of pressure from different spot as seen by how many different people on the ravens D got sacks and just how many there were. Rex Ryan ran our defense perfectly with our personel

RaiderNation
03-13-2007, 01:03 AM
i like the 3-4 scheme the chargers run. big olbs with athletic mlbs and huge dlinemen

Caddy
03-13-2007, 04:17 AM
If you have the right personnel, it is probably the Cover 2. After all, look at the two teams in the superbowl

Moses
03-13-2007, 04:20 AM
There is no best scheme.

It depends on your personnel, the other teams' personnel, and what plays/formations they run.

Non_Sequitur
03-13-2007, 04:33 AM
46 Bear. More teams would run it if it didn't take an impossible amount of extremely talented LB's to do so.

Although Mike Sherman's 0 scheme was pretty cool too, we copied it for my high school team back in the day.

neko4
03-13-2007, 04:46 AM
The 5-2 and the 4-4, nah really the 4-3

Green Bay Scat
03-13-2007, 05:34 AM
We run the 3-3-5, and as an OLineman, it sucks to go against with all the athletic Saftey LB tweeners and then u have to read the LB and Safeties. Im glad i dont have to go against it but its very fun to play as. Personally i like the 46, its dominate against the run and if have athletic enough DB it could stop some key Passing Down plays

cardsalltheway
03-13-2007, 05:48 AM
If I had the choice, I'd run a 4-3/3-4 hybrid like the Ravens and Fins.

jetsfan3
03-13-2007, 07:01 AM
3-4/4-3 hybrid

KBear
03-13-2007, 07:51 AM
The best scheme would be something unique and something that a team has the personel to run effectively. I think the 3-4 (really more of a formation) and the tampa 2 are going to be less efective in the future. Too many teams run it now, and the QBs and offensive coordinators will find a way to beat it.


I would not mind seeing a more of a 5-2 formation, just becuase I find it interesting to watch.

EdReedUnstoppable
03-13-2007, 07:56 AM
I voted other because the best defensive system in the NFL is the "Organized Chaos" hybrid Defense that Rex Ryan has created, developed, and perfected.

jkpigskin
03-13-2007, 07:59 AM
I voted other because the best defensive system in the NFL is the "Organized Chaos" hybrid Defense that Rex Ryan has created, developed, and perfected.

yup yup

youve got to love that name

ORGANIZED
CHAOS

eaglesalltheway
03-13-2007, 08:01 AM
There is no best scheme.

It depends on your personnel, the other teams' personnel, and what plays/formations they run.

This is true, but I still voted anyway for 4-3 because I think it is the easiest to run, no matter what your personnel is.

bigbluedefense
03-13-2007, 08:32 AM
You knew I had to post in this thread right?

The 3-4 is the ****. W00t w00t!

But in all seriousness, let me explain in detail why I feel the way I feel.

First and foremost, the poll is far too basic. Youre referring to formations, and the formations' individual scheme can vary greatly between coaching styles. The 4-3 has many variations, Cover 2 being an example of it. Then you have the 46, and hybrids etc, its too basic of a definition to define just as 4-3.

My favorite defense is the 3-4 base that Bill Parcells and Bill Bellichick run. The 2 gap 3-4 that is based on LB zone coverages and man coverages on the outside. Its passive in nature, but can be aggressive when need be. It doesn't live and die with the blitz, but can still manufacture an effective pass rush.

And its versatility makes it a good front against any offense. It has had success against great offenses of many types, the 49ers WCO of the 80s, the Buffalo Bills no huddle Air Coryell, the Colts no huddle, the 2 TE smashmouth offense of Joe Gibbs....its been proven to be an effective scheme against any type of offense thrown at it.

Thats why its the best. Its won 5 SBs and its effectiveness against any offensive scheme makes it better than any defense. Cover 2 schemes are vulnerable to the Air Coryell and 2 TE power run game, the 46 is vulnerable to the WCO, the conventional 4-3 and its variations are often too difficult to build with little flaws because its difficult finding elite talent in every position of the conventional 4-3, and its basic fronts are less confusing to Qbs.

The 3-4 is also better against the run, which is ultimately what defense is all about. I can go on and on, I love talking Xs and Os of the game. My favorite schemes of all time are Bill Parcell's 3-4, Buddy Ryan's 46, Tom Landry's Flex 4-3, and the hybrid defense that Denver ran in the early 80s (to this day, that was probably the most complex defense Ive seen. They used so many situational players and player substitutions in different fronts, its not even funny. Brilliant defense).

Finsfan79
03-13-2007, 12:09 PM
If I had the choice, I'd run a 4-3/3-4 hybrid like the Ravens and Fins.

agreed, pats run it (sometimes) and jets too

Vikes99ej
03-13-2007, 12:26 PM
The Ravens defense.

LonghornsLegend
03-13-2007, 12:52 PM
too bad rex ryan isnt staying in baltimore past next season...although id love to see it, because what he does is amazing, someone will offer too much money to be a HC, and to bring that scheme to their team...


hell i would of welcomed him into dallas this yr as the HC, im curious as to how they draft this year for that defense

niel89
03-13-2007, 12:54 PM
too bad rex ryan isnt staying in baltimore past next season...although id love to see it, because what he does is amazing, someone will offer too much money to be a HC, and to bring that scheme to their team...


hell i would of welcomed him into dallas this yr as the HC, im curious as to how they draft this year for that defense

well even though he probably will be gone soon im sure there is one assistant trying to learn it so we can continue to run it

Eaglez.Fan
03-13-2007, 12:54 PM
I'd run a 2-5. Two huge nose tackles, then 5 LB's.

In the NFL I'd say the 3-4 zone blitz like Dick LeBeau

bored of education
03-13-2007, 01:01 PM
Here are the Wikipedia descriptions of the FB-34 defense that I love, and also the ZB34 defense

The 3-4 defense was originally devised by Bud Wilkinson at the University of Oklahoma in the late 1940s [17]. Former Patriots and Oklahoma coach Chuck Fairbanks is credited with being a major figure in first bringing the 3-4 defense to the NFL in 1974 [18]. Patriots defensive coordinator Hank Bullough made significant further innovations to the system [19]. Parcells was linebackers coach under Ron Erhardt as head coach of the Patriots in 1980 (after Fairbanks left for Colorado in 1978 and Bullough lost out on the head coaching position). When Parcells returned to the Giants as defensive coordinator under Ray Perkins in 1981, he brought the 3-4 defense with him.

Bill Belichick was initially exposed to the 3-4 defense while working as an assistant under Red Miller, head coach of the Denver Broncos and a former Patriots offensive coordinator under Fairbanks. Joe Collier was the defensive coordinator under Red Miller at the time [20], and his orange crush defense was very successful at stifling opposing offenses. The Broncos had decided to adopt the 3-4 in 1977. Bill Belichick subsequently refined his understanding of the 3-4 as a linebackers coach and defensive coordinator under Parcells with the Giants. Belichick returned the 3-4 defense back to New England when he become coach of the team in 2000 [21]. Romeo Crennel subsequently became defensive coordinator for the team.

The New England Patriots run a modified base 3-4 Chuck Fairbanks - Hank Bullough system [10] installed by Bill Belichick. The term 3-4 means that their base formation consists of 3 defensive linemen, 4 linebackers, and 4 defensive backs. It is believed that this gives the defense the greatest amount of flexibility because the linebackers are capable of doing any of the following: rushing the quarterback, tackling runners or dropping into coverage. At times the Patriots will shade their defensive linemen different ways, creating "over" or "under" defenses. Over and under defenses simply refer to the shift of the defensive linemen to the strong or weak side of the offense, respectively, and the rotation of the linebackers in the opposite direction.

--------------------
The 3-4 zone blitz defense was developed by Dick LeBeau as defensive coordinator of the Pittsburgh Steelers. It commonly calls upon linemen to be mobile enough to drop back into zone coverage in place of blitzing linebackers [25]. Elements of the 3-4 zone blitz defense have been incorporated over time into the modern Phillips 3-4.

fenikz
03-13-2007, 01:24 PM
showing the 3-3-5 no love

i would love to see a coach run that

TNewFan41
03-13-2007, 01:36 PM
The 3-4 that Wade Phillips runs. And now we have it, HAHAHA!!!!!!

hugepunch
03-13-2007, 01:45 PM
The 3-4 that Wade Phillips runs. And now we have it, HAHAHA!!!!!!

thats true man... he is a legend in his own time.

The Legend
03-13-2007, 01:50 PM
Wade Phillips and Demarcus Ware will be scary

Splat
03-13-2007, 01:53 PM
If you have the right players the 3-4 can be hard to get around.

princefielder28
03-13-2007, 02:13 PM
I'm a big fan of the Tampa 2

BuffaloDraftGeek
03-13-2007, 03:21 PM
How can you leave 46 off?

Shiver
03-13-2007, 03:26 PM
What I have learned over the years, any front can work with the right personnel. No scheme is perfect. I've seen the ugly side of the 3-4 defense when it doesn't have the correct players to operate it. Atlanta had the worst defense in football when Wade Phillips was here. He goes to San Diego, now he's a defensive guru or something.

Microphon200
03-13-2007, 08:32 PM
If you don't know what the FB 34 is then don't ever quote me again.

You act like you know everything. If you knew half as much as you thought you did, then you would be a genious.

I know I'm not a genious. That's why I ask questions, and I can care less if you think they're dumb or not.

bored of education
03-13-2007, 08:34 PM
Why did you have to make your the 3-4 is all about being sexy comment then? WHY?

Microphon200
03-13-2007, 08:36 PM
Why did you have to make your the 3-4 is all about being sexy comment then? WHY?

Because that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

bored of education
03-13-2007, 08:40 PM
It's one sexy opinion Microphon200

BigDawg819
03-13-2007, 08:45 PM
I voted other because the best defensive system in the NFL is the "Organized Chaos" hybrid Defense that Rex Ryan has created, developed, and perfected.

BEST DEFENSIVE SCHEME IN THE NFL! 2006 BALTIMORE RAVENS #1 RATED DEFENSE.

BigDawg819
03-13-2007, 08:46 PM
Because that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

Your opinion reeks of Sex Panther......GET THE FIRE HOSE! :D

Don Vito
03-13-2007, 08:57 PM
As mentioned I love the 3-4 hybrid. The versatility of the players makes it very fun to watch. The Dolphins had the ideal personnel for it last season with players like Kevin Carter, Jason Taylor, and Channing Crowder.

art vandelay
03-13-2007, 09:13 PM
How can you leave 46 off?

Because the West Coast Offense has basically made the 46 non-effective.

Microphon200
03-13-2007, 09:22 PM
Your opinion reeks of Sex Panther......GET THE FIRE HOSE! :D

Why am I a sex panther now?

Dam8610
03-14-2007, 01:39 AM
Why am I a sex panther now?

Someone has never seen Anchorman.

johbur
03-14-2007, 03:16 AM
I voted other. I love Jim Bates' defensive scheme, with his stacked LBs and no real difference between the safeties, or the LBs for that matter. He did great things in Miami and vastly improved GB's defense. I'll be watching the Broncos defense to see if they also improve a lot under Bates.

niel89
03-14-2007, 03:57 AM
I voted other. I love Jim Bates' defensive scheme, with his stacked LBs and no real difference between the safeties, or the LBs for that matter. He did great things in Miami and vastly improved GB's defense. I'll be watching the Broncos defense to see if they also improve a lot under Bates.

im excited to see that defence, he said he wants a "lights out" defense.

DeathbyStat
03-14-2007, 07:57 AM
I feel 3-4 is the best but its more difficult to find players to fit in it but once you fit the right type of player the system makes them look alot better than they actually are.

PACKmanN
03-14-2007, 11:09 AM
what about the 46 thats a sweet d.

bigbluedefense
03-14-2007, 11:21 AM
Here are the Wikipedia descriptions of the FB-34 defense that I love, and also the ZB34 defense

The 3-4 defense was originally devised by Bud Wilkinson at the University of Oklahoma in the late 1940s [17]. Former Patriots and Oklahoma coach Chuck Fairbanks is credited with being a major figure in first bringing the 3-4 defense to the NFL in 1974 [18]. Patriots defensive coordinator Hank Bullough made significant further innovations to the system [19]. Parcells was linebackers coach under Ron Erhardt as head coach of the Patriots in 1980 (after Fairbanks left for Colorado in 1978 and Bullough lost out on the head coaching position). When Parcells returned to the Giants as defensive coordinator under Ray Perkins in 1981, he brought the 3-4 defense with him.

Bill Belichick was initially exposed to the 3-4 defense while working as an assistant under Red Miller, head coach of the Denver Broncos and a former Patriots offensive coordinator under Fairbanks. Joe Collier was the defensive coordinator under Red Miller at the time [20], and his orange crush defense was very successful at stifling opposing offenses. The Broncos had decided to adopt the 3-4 in 1977. Bill Belichick subsequently refined his understanding of the 3-4 as a linebackers coach and defensive coordinator under Parcells with the Giants. Belichick returned the 3-4 defense back to New England when he become coach of the team in 2000 [21]. Romeo Crennel subsequently became defensive coordinator for the team.

The New England Patriots run a modified base 3-4 Chuck Fairbanks - Hank Bullough system [10] installed by Bill Belichick. The term 3-4 means that their base formation consists of 3 defensive linemen, 4 linebackers, and 4 defensive backs. It is believed that this gives the defense the greatest amount of flexibility because the linebackers are capable of doing any of the following: rushing the quarterback, tackling runners or dropping into coverage. At times the Patriots will shade their defensive linemen different ways, creating "over" or "under" defenses. Over and under defenses simply refer to the shift of the defensive linemen to the strong or weak side of the offense, respectively, and the rotation of the linebackers in the opposite direction.

--------------------
The 3-4 zone blitz defense was developed by Dick LeBeau as defensive coordinator of the Pittsburgh Steelers. It commonly calls upon linemen to be mobile enough to drop back into zone coverage in place of blitzing linebackers [25]. Elements of the 3-4 zone blitz defense have been incorporated over time into the modern Phillips 3-4.

That failed to mention how BP innovated the scheme by having a standard pass rusher out of the LB core. Before him, all 4 LBs blitzed an equal number of times. That was probably the single most important piece to the 3-4 puzzle. Thats what made it a reliable base defense. Before that, it was more of a situational package. It did elude to how Bellichick refined his craft under BP, which makes me a happy camper. Too many times we credit Bellichick too much for innovating the scheme. He runs the same scheme BP ran, he's the modern version of BP. People forget that.

Before that, Denver (the orange crush, one of my favorite schemes ever) used the 3-4 in a situational package. They ran more of a hybrid defense. It was heavily based on situational players that were more adapted to thrive in certain packages. He did a lot of substitutions in that defense. There really wasn't a no huddle team back then to take advantage of his scheme's dependency on situational players. Its to this day, probably the most complex defense I ever watched tape of. Prior to him, the 3-4 was more of a pass defense. It was never a realistic standard base until BP changed the game with LT.

That scheme, the one mentioned above, is my favorite. I credit BP for it because the modern 3-4 you see today that Bellichick runs is essentially BP's scheme. Of course credit goes to the creators of the scheme as well.

I like the ZB 3-4 because they still primarily 2 gap. Im not a huge fan of Phillip's scheme. Its essentially a blitz heavy 4-3 that disguises its blitzes in a 3-4 shell. Not really a true 3-4. Im a 3-4 purist, so Im not too big on Wade's scheme.

gbpackers0065
03-14-2007, 08:20 PM
Ill go 3-4 becuz the teams that use it have nice defences

Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Dolphins(Their defense is pretty good) The Browns defense is improving

BigDawg819
03-14-2007, 09:12 PM
Someone has never seen Anchorman.

Someone hasn't seen Anchorman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/wrobel8/ban_him.jpg

Im_a_Romosexual
03-14-2007, 09:17 PM
i always liked the 34 and im stoked the cowboys started using it

EdReedUnstoppable
03-14-2007, 09:45 PM
too bad rex ryan isnt staying in baltimore past next season...although id love to see it, because what he does is amazing, someone will offer too much money to be a HC, and to bring that scheme to their team...


hell i would of welcomed him into dallas this yr as the HC, im curious as to how they draft this year for that defense


Well Jeff Fitzgerald our LB coach has been attached to Rex Ryan's hip since he was hired and he is gonna be a great DC for us in 08.

omecool20
03-15-2007, 04:58 AM
I like a 4 -3 defense, that would be my base defense. But, actually, the way the Pats do their defense is pretty cool... able to flip flop from 4-3 to 3-4 ..

Hurricane Ditka
03-15-2007, 06:32 AM
The 46 Bear.

wogitalia
03-15-2007, 07:15 AM
This is an interesting one. As a player(ILB) I prefer the 4-3 because it makes my job a lot easier. As a fan I prefer the 3-4 because I find that the extra speed that changing a DT for a LB gives makes for more big hits and more general chaos.

As for the best if I was a coach, it would depend on who I have. If I have a legit NT and a lot of fast and strong LBs I would use a 3-4. If I have a DE that can generate legit pressure on every down I like the 4-3. In other words if I have a Julius Peppers I like the 4-3.

JK17
03-15-2007, 10:30 AM
I love the 3-4 mainly because im a Charger fan, but I also feel its the most effective defense. It really does all depend on the personell tho. Without players like Shaun Phillips or Merriman at OLB, the 3-4 scheme becomes much less effective, and a 4-3 may become a better scheme.

BuffaloDraftGeek
03-15-2007, 05:40 PM
As mentioned I love the 3-4 hybrid. The versatility of the players makes it very fun to watch. The Dolphins had the ideal personnel for it last season with players like Kevin Carter, Jason Taylor, and Channing Crowder.
Then why did their defense still suck ass?

bigbluedefense
03-15-2007, 05:43 PM
This is an interesting one. As a player(ILB) I prefer the 4-3 because it makes my job a lot easier. As a fan I prefer the 3-4 because I find that the extra speed that changing a DT for a LB gives makes for more big hits and more general chaos.

As for the best if I was a coach, it would depend on who I have. If I have a legit NT and a lot of fast and strong LBs I would use a 3-4. If I have a DE that can generate legit pressure on every down I like the 4-3. In other words if I have a Julius Peppers I like the 4-3.

They say the 4-3 is a player's defense, and the 3-4 is a coach's defense.

Players like the 4-3 because LBs can put direct hits on RBs, DEs can rush the passer, and DTs can penetrate.

In the 3-4 everyone's role is less "fun". LBs have to take on linemen and bubble around players, DEs have to hold their blocks, NTs have to occupy linemen as well...its not as fun for the player. Its more passive in nature.

niel89
03-15-2007, 06:35 PM
Then why did their defense still suck ass?

their defense was good last year

HoopsDemon12
03-16-2007, 08:07 PM
46 is soooo much fun to watch...but you do need alot of good backers to pull it off, and wiht the salary cap i dont think we'll ever see the 46 ran the way da bears did back in the day....but i love that man...sooo sooo sooo much pressure

Empire
03-16-2007, 08:19 PM
Then why did their defense still suck ass?

Actually they had a pretty damn good defense last year. Probably one of the better ones in the league, fourth ranked overall.

draftguru151
03-16-2007, 08:26 PM
Then why did their defense still suck ass?

Are you joking or what? Top 5 scoring defense, top 5 passing defense, top 10 rushing defense, 4th total defense.

Chucky
03-16-2007, 10:14 PM
I love the hybrid defence that the ravens run, but overall its got to be the cover 2 because it is easier to find fits for the cover 2 later in the draft.

Number 10
03-17-2007, 06:50 AM
At it's peak, no defense can match the dominance of a 3-4, case closed.

Ace
03-17-2007, 09:40 AM
Then why did their defense still suck ass?

You ride the short bus don't you?

Our defense was in the top 5 last year. Can't same the same about your's can I?

BTW, your defense sucks ass.

princefielder28
03-17-2007, 09:44 AM
You ride the short bus don't you?

Instead of just being a homer/hater, why don't you actually use some common sense? Our defense was top 5 last year. Unlike your's.

Miami's defense was top notch in the second half of the season with Jason Taylor putting pressure on the quarterback every time he dropped back and with the addition of Joey Porter and some draft selections the Miami Dolphins' defense could be one of the top 3 in the league this year, but it'll hinge on their secondary's ability to make plays.

evershot
03-17-2007, 10:53 AM
Your defense is only as good as the personnel running it. So I say that the Best defense is the one that is.

1. Easiest to draft for.
2. Cheapest to build.
3. Easiest to maintain.

Dam8610
03-17-2007, 01:29 PM
Your defense is only as good as the personnel running it. So I say that the Best defense is the one that is.

1. Easiest to draft for.
2. Cheapest to build.
3. Easiest to maintain.

You've just described the Tampa 2.

MP123
03-18-2007, 01:13 PM
I think the 3-4 because the big men up front clog the running lanes and you don't have to worry about undersized players. And it's confusing because there are so many blitz packages.

bigbluedefense
03-18-2007, 05:22 PM
You've just described the Tampa 2.

I would agree with this, but we're starting to see a trend that could make this an old stereotype.

More and more Ends coming out of college have that "tweener" body. These tweeners are now being sought after by both 3-4 teams as rushbackers, and Cover 2 teams as Ends. This could create a lack of quality DE products. With more and more teams going to the 3-4 and Cover 2 scheme, we have more competition for the same body types than ever before for both of those schemes. And Cover 2 lives and dies with the pressure it creates in the front 4, so if theres stiff competition for the DE position like there is now, it may not be the easiest scheme to draft for anymore.

There are currently 16 teams in the NFL that either run Cover 2 or 3-4. Thats over half the league. So one of the most vital pieces of both defenses, the rushbacker/de, is being sought after by 16 teams. That could and probably will present a shortage of available pass rushers for each team employing this scheme, and it could lead to a problem. I think these 2 schemes, which were once thought of as having the advantage in getting players that other schemes don't look for, will now face the problem of competing for similar players and having shortages in key positions.

Other examples include the need by both schemes for quality SS play, and 3-4 DE vs Tampa 2 UT. I think those positions require similar physical characteristics among the 2 schemes.

Staubach12
03-18-2007, 08:14 PM
The 3-4. It allows to you to put more speed on the field, be more agressive when necessary, but also sit back a little more if needed. It's much more effective at confusing offenses, as well.

jetsfan3
03-18-2007, 09:03 PM
The 3-4. It allows to you to put more speed on the field, be more agressive when necessary, but also sit back a little more if needed. It's much more effective at confusing offenses, as well.

Agreed. When ran correctly, a 3-4 is the most effective defense on the field. The catch is, however, it's not very easy to maintain and draft for.

dcarey20
03-18-2007, 09:07 PM
the best scheme is a combo 3-4/4-3, which is what the ravens run.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2007, 08:30 AM
The 3-4. It allows to you to put more speed on the field, be more agressive when necessary, but also sit back a little more if needed. It's much more effective at confusing offenses, as well.

This is actually a misconception of the 3-4 that is not true. The 3-4 uses bigger LBs who are stronger yet slower in coverage, and remember, just because you have 4 LBs opposed to 3 doesn't mean anything, because one of those LBs is rushing the qb anyway. Plus, the dlinemen are also bigger/stronger but slower, so team speed is decreased in the 3-4 opposed to the 4-3. This makes for better run stuffing because the front 7 is thicker up front, but worse pass coverage in general opposed to smaller quicker 4-3 defenses. The 3-4 relies more on scheme and confusion to hinder the pass game, where the 4-3 relies more on athleticism in general terms. I broke down the differences in an old post, it was quite long so I'll just copy and paste it onto here:

I also want to discuss this notion that the 3-4 is quicker than the 4-3. This is actually false.

We assume that because you have an extra linebacker, that your team defense is faster, but the truth is 3-4 defenses are slower than 4-3 defenses, and actually thicker when you add up the total body mass of the front 7.

The prototypical 3-4 has these respective weights.

DE - 290
NT - 340
OLB - 260
ILB - 250

Thats 1940 lbs of mass in the front 7.

The prototypical 4-3 bodyweights are

DE - 270
NT - 310
UT - 300
MLB - 240
SLB - 240
WILL - 235

Thats 1865 lbs of mass.

The 4-3 has smaller quicker linebackers who play the middle of the field faster than the 3-4.

Remember, while the 3-4 may have one extra LB, youre usually blitzing that LB, leaving 3 LBs in coverage who tend to be thicker than 4-3 Lbs, so you have less speed in coverage. Plus, your 3 downlinemen are essentially all DTs, so you get less overall speed out of the pass rush as well.

This is why the 3-4 is better against the run, but worst against the pass. You have a thicker front 7 against the run, and its spaced out so its difficult to bounce it outside as well. However, the overall weight of the front 7 reduces team speed, making coverage a little slower, and pass rush a little slower, thus equating to worse pass defense.

Don't believe me? Think about who has the best run defenses in the league. Dallas, Pittsburgh, and SD. All 3-4 teams. Who has the best pass defenses? Generally Cover 2 teams, built on speed and 4-3 fronts, like the Bears.

niel89
03-19-2007, 07:51 PM
This is actually a misconception of the 3-4 that is not true. The 3-4 uses bigger LBs who are stronger yet slower in coverage, and remember, just because you have 4 LBs opposed to 3 doesn't mean anything, because one of those LBs is rushing the qb anyway. Plus, the dlinemen are also bigger/stronger but slower, so team speed is decreased in the 3-4 opposed to the 4-3. This makes for better run stuffing because the front 7 is thicker up front, but worse pass coverage in general opposed to smaller quicker 4-3 defenses. The 3-4 relies more on scheme and confusion to hinder the pass game, where the 4-3 relies more on athleticism in general terms. I broke down the differences in an old post, it was quite long so I'll just copy and paste it onto here:

you are the most knowledgeable poster on here IMO. thank you for positively adding to this forum

bigbluedefense
03-20-2007, 09:27 AM
*blushes like a little schoolgirl*

Theres lots of intelligent fans on this site. Im just happy to be associated in that group. Thats why I come here, this site has great football conversation among great fans. I learn something new everyday.

yourfavestoner
03-20-2007, 10:38 AM
I would agree with this, but we're starting to see a trend that could make this an old stereotype.

More and more Ends coming out of college have that "tweener" body. These tweeners are now being sought after by both 3-4 teams as rushbackers, and Cover 2 teams as Ends. This could create a lack of quality DE products. With more and more teams going to the 3-4 and Cover 2 scheme, we have more competition for the same body types than ever before for both of those schemes. And Cover 2 lives and dies with the pressure it creates in the front 4, so if theres stiff competition for the DE position like there is now, it may not be the easiest scheme to draft for anymore.

There are currently 16 teams in the NFL that either run Cover 2 or 3-4. Thats over half the league. So one of the most vital pieces of both defenses, the rushbacker/de, is being sought after by 16 teams. That could and probably will present a shortage of available pass rushers for each team employing this scheme, and it could lead to a problem. I think these 2 schemes, which were once thought of as having the advantage in getting players that other schemes don't look for, will now face the problem of competing for similar players and having shortages in key positions.

Other examples include the need by both schemes for quality SS play, and 3-4 DE vs Tampa 2 UT. I think those positions require similar physical characteristics among the 2 schemes.

I actually made a post like this a loooong time ago (I think it was when I first joined the forum).

Like you said, the reason why the Tampa Two and 3-4 schemes were so easy to draft for in the past is because the majority of teams in the NFL ran a traditional 4-3 scheme. There was an emphasis on those teams for big, athletic defensive tackles, and big, balanced defensive ends. Corners who could run man-to-man were also more of a premium, whereas the safety position was virtually an afterthought. As a result, the 'tweener defensive ends, the low-end athleticism/high-end motor defensive tackles, and zone defensive backs would fall, as there wasn't a big premium on them, and the 3-4 and Tampa Two teams could snatch them up much later in the draft, and for a lot cheaper.

Nowadays, virtually everybody runs a little bit of every scheme. Furthermore, since the NFL is such a copycat league, a good majority of teams run a Tampa Two or 3-4 hybrid scheme. What's the result? Those 'tweeners, those guys that play DE in the 3-4, those zone corners, and those safeties became much more of a premium. Notice, too, how few traditional 4-3 linebackers have been drafted in the first round in recent history.

It's just further proof of how the NFL is a cyclical league.

KBear
03-20-2007, 11:11 AM
While its true that more teams are looking for those DE/OLB tweeners, more colleges are producing more them now.

For example, My Iowa Hawkeyes use to have 300 lbs DL for both DT and DE. Now the the starters are all going to be around 270 lbs. Jonathan Babineaux, a DT for the Falcons, was recruited to be a LB/FB and actually started a few games as a FB before switching to DE and then finally to DT.

So yes the demand for those DE/OLB tweeners have gone up, so has the supply of them. So its not that much harder to find players, its just harder to acquire the top talents.

The biggest challenge is that those defences are not as unique as they used to be, and QBs will know more of what to expect when facing them they they used too.