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Ward
01-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Now that we've seen Free in action this season vs some of the best pass rushers in the game, what are your thoughts on the position today?

TitleTown088
01-17-2010, 10:41 PM
Good thing you'll be picking after the Pack if you're thinking LT is a big need. ;) We need one badly.

E-Man
01-17-2010, 10:42 PM
Doug Free played pretty damn good considering that he hasn't played LT his whole NFL career, and it was against one of the best players in the game. I say give him a shot unless someone ridiculously good falls into their lap in the draft.

D-Unit
01-17-2010, 10:59 PM
Been saying it for a while that I think regardless of what anyone thinks, that Jerry will let Free take the starting gig next year. IF Flozell is cut.... hopefully.

thule
01-18-2010, 08:57 AM
Free will be our opening day starter. I'd be anything on it. We will draft interior OL. Someone similar to under that can play c or og. That'll give us insurance at the position because our coaching staff has shown we have trust in LD at left tackle. Brewster will not be a swing tackle.

herniateddisc
01-18-2010, 09:35 AM
FWIW, I think Davis is a better RT prospect than left and Free much better Left than right.

Let me make some controversial proposals .....

1) Trade Witten for a early 2 and 4. Give Bennett the job.
2) Trade Felix for a mid 1 plus third rounder.
3) Move TNew to FS, Scandrick to start
4) Cut Hamlin, Spears, Colombo and Flo. They are mistake prone and both Tackles are mistake prone.
5) Davis to RT. Free to LT.
6) Pick up a serviceable RB from FA or cuts.
7) Hatcher or Brown to starter for Spears

First Round: Golden Tate (WR/KR) and Davis (LT) or Ducasse or T Williams
Second Round: Iutapi (OG) and a CB
Third Round: Fast WR and 3-4 DE
Fourth Round: RB and another OG
Fifth: 3-4 NT
Sixth: Fast ST CB or WR
Seventh: Kicker

I know folks will freak but we do lack some fight in this team. They play well UP but when down they give up fast. Yesterday's game was a a classic. Down 17-3 they played like it was 35-0.

I was also very unhappy with the "Our First Drive" is everything mentality. So if you score all is great and you play confident but if not???? This si where coaching s a big issue. You can't set your team up that way emotionally. They need to be tough and understand stuff doe not always happen as you wish and you will need to win this in the 4th Q at some time.

This team lacks that something in the tough department.

ricowboy
01-18-2010, 10:16 AM
FWIW, I think Davis is a better RT prospect than left and Free much better Left than right.

Let me make some controversial proposals .....

1) Trade Witten for a early 2 and 4. Give Bennett the job.
2) Trade Felix for a mid 1 plus third rounder.
3) Move TNew to FS, Scandrick to start
4) Cut Hamlin, Spears, Colombo and Flo. They are mistake prone and both Tackles are mistake prone.
5) Davis to RT. Free to LT.
6) Pick up a serviceable RB from FA or cuts.
7) Hatcher or Brown to starter for Spears

First Round: Golden Tate (WR/KR) and Davis (LT) or Ducasse or T Williams
Second Round: Iutapi (OG) and a CB
Third Round: Fast WR and 3-4 DE
Fourth Round: RB and another OG
Fifth: 3-4 NT
Sixth: Fast ST CB or WR
Seventh: Kicker

I know folks will freak but we do lack some fight in this team. They play well UP but when down they give up fast. Yesterday's game was a a classic. Down 17-3 they played like it was 35-0.

I was also very unhappy with the "Our First Drive" is everything mentality. So if you score all is great and you play confident but if not???? This si where coaching s a big issue. You can't set your team up that way emotionally. They need to be tough and understand stuff doe not always happen as you wish and you will need to win this in the 4th Q at some time.

This team lacks that something in the tough department.

I agree the team lacks mental toughness. We also have issues with the OC. There is no need to gut this roster. Trading Witten and Jones is out of the question. They were the only playmakers that actually showed up. #3 is an interesting move worth considering. Cutting Flo and Hamlin are good moves. Spears and Columbo are very serviceable. Columbo should have never started....Free was playing better. As far as the draft goes you make some good points. Still early to mention prospects, but the position on need are OT/DL/DB/K. No particular order.......

Macarthur
01-18-2010, 11:32 AM
I think Free did pretty well getting thrown in there against one of the top 2 or 3 pass rushers in the league. The play that knocked the ball loose from Romo was not really Free's fault. The problem last night was Columbo. I don't know if he was hurt, but he was incredibly slow getting off the ball.

I think we would have been much better last night if Flo hadn't gotten hurt and we plugged Free in for Columbo.

I think Free will probably start at LT next year. However, I think if there is someone of value at that position when we are on the clock, we should take them. The problem is that there rarely are LTs on the board where we are picking.

I acutally think LG is a higher priority for upgrade than OT.

D-Unit
01-18-2010, 12:24 PM
FWIW, I think Davis is a better RT prospect than left and Free much better Left than right.

Let me make some controversial proposals .....

1) Trade Witten for a early 2 and 4. Give Bennett the job.
2) Trade Felix for a mid 1 plus third rounder.
3) Move TNew to FS, Scandrick to start
4) Cut Hamlin, Spears, Colombo and Flo. They are mistake prone and both Tackles are mistake prone.
5) Davis to RT. Free to LT.
6) Pick up a serviceable RB from FA or cuts.
7) Hatcher or Brown to starter for Spears

First Round: Golden Tate (WR/KR) and Davis (LT) or Ducasse or T Williams
Second Round: Iutapi (OG) and a CB
Third Round: Fast WR and 3-4 DE
Fourth Round: RB and another OG
Fifth: 3-4 NT
Sixth: Fast ST CB or WR
Seventh: Kicker

I know folks will freak but we do lack some fight in this team. They play well UP but when down they give up fast. Yesterday's game was a a classic. Down 17-3 they played like it was 35-0.

I was also very unhappy with the "Our First Drive" is everything mentality. So if you score all is great and you play confident but if not???? This si where coaching s a big issue. You can't set your team up that way emotionally. They need to be tough and understand stuff doe not always happen as you wish and you will need to win this in the 4th Q at some time.

This team lacks that something in the tough department.
Outside of 1 and 2 not ever happening, I like the rest of it. It's not very controversial after that. ...well maybe cutting Columbo is... but that ain't happening either...

You say trade Witten for a 2nd and 4th... I say trade Bennett for a 2nd. It's not Madden to think that's possible. Did you see the fight in him yesterday? the guy is worth it.

I mentioned moving Newman to FS a long time ago. Got bashed for it. Thanks for steal my thoughts and not giving me credit. LOL. JK, I won't play that game.

E-Man
01-18-2010, 02:42 PM
I like Davis right where he is. He can play tackle, but he's much better at guard. That's what happened with him in Arizona. He played outstanding at guard, but they moved him to tackle. I think he should only play tackle if there is an injury. I am thinking they draft a tackle to compete with Free, or to be a swing tackle. Flozell is probably gone with his big contract.

thule
01-18-2010, 02:48 PM
I like Davis right where he is. He can play tackle, but he's much better at guard. That's what happened with him in Arizona. He played outstanding at guard, but they moved him to tackle. I think he should only play tackle if there is an injury. I am thinking they draft a tackle to compete with Free, or to be a swing tackle. Flozell is probably gone with his big contract.

I doubt we draft another OT if we don't go OT early. If free is viewed as a starter. I think we go interior OL...since we have FA who probably aren't brought back like Holland....and we also have no depth inside...Brewster was set to play RT in training camp this year so I think they'll try to avoid adding another OT and just play their cards with Brewster backing up LT..and having a depth peice on the inside with LD moving over in a pinch.

E-Man
01-18-2010, 02:57 PM
I doubt we draft another OT if we don't go OT early. If free is viewed as a starter. I think we go interior OL...since we have FA who probably aren't brought back like Holland....and we also have no depth inside...Brewster was set to play RT in training camp this year so I think they'll try to avoid adding another OT and just play their cards with Brewster backing up LT..and having a depth peice on the inside with LD moving over in a pinch.

I was thinking that they would move Brewster inside to guard, but if they're keeping him at tackle it would make sense to go interior in the draft. I agree that the inside needs depth. I think it needs more attention than tackle, because center is a big problem to me. If Gurode goes down we have to deal with Proctor again, and no one wants to see that atrocity happen again.

M.O.T.H.
01-18-2010, 07:44 PM
Rob, why the hell would we trade Felix Jones?

He's more than likely starting next year, if I had to guess right now and he's easily the best back on the team. Not the smartest idea, you've come up with.

D-Unit
01-18-2010, 08:51 PM
Well, Free as our starting LT is nearly a lock. His back up at LT might be a more interesting discussion. Personally, I think that it has to be Robert Brewster. The guy has to step up. He may not have played a snap, but all the other things should be out of the way... adjustment to NFL lifestyle, housing, getting settled in, understanding the daily routine, knowing the playbook, the personalities on the team... the only thing in his way should be taking snaps.

Brewster has to be counted on as our swing tackle next year. I don't see Columbo losing his spot. Yeah, he was the worst OL yesterday... giving up 3 sacks to Ray Edwards... but I think he was rushed back. Whatevers... Flo got hurt anyways, so Free couldn't have stepped in for him.

But Brewster... the guy has to be our swing tackle. I don't want him to bust. He looks smart, physical, nimble and powerful... so I'm going to give Ciskowski the benefit of the doubt that Brewster was worth the pick.

herniateddisc
01-19-2010, 06:27 AM
Rob, why the hell would we trade Felix Jones?

He's more than likely starting next year, if I had to guess right now and he's easily the best back on the team. Not the smartest idea, you've come up with.

The same reason I trade Witten.

1) To get back multiple players I can use who might also become stars.

2) It is a position of strength where our Back-ups can start in the NFL.

Bennett can play. Choice can play.

We don't need 3 NFL quality TEs.
We don't need 3 NFL quality RBs.

It is stupid to stockpile talent for the "DEEEEEEP" bench and then lose them to other teams for nothing.

If a guy is not taking 20% of the respective snaps for their unit and they can play -- get rid of them for value or get rid of the guy in front of him for value.

Bennett + Phillips plus JAG is good enuff.
MBIII plus Choice plus JAG is good enuff.

I can get serious compensation for Witten and Jones which can address the WEAKNESSes we have elsewhere.

The WEAKNESSES which cost us the last two playoff games. a) Better OL and b) more O play makers.

thule
01-19-2010, 07:11 AM
No way Brewster plays LT in the nfl..come training camp I think we'll see LD taking backup LT snaps..similar to what happened in GB this year when LT went down and Colledge moved over and they filled the spot on the inside.

herniateddisc
01-19-2010, 09:58 AM
No way Brewster plays LT in the nfl..come training camp I think we'll see LD taking backup LT snaps..similar to what happened in GB this year when LT went down and Colledge moved over and they filled the spot on the inside.

Colledge who?

The guy on the Packers is going to play for us?

thule
01-19-2010, 10:29 AM
Colledge who?

The guy on the Packers is going to play for us?

No when Clifton went down this year in GB..rather than playing their backup OT the moved Colledge over to tackle and put Spitz in at OG.

I think we'd play it similar.

If Free was to get hurt. Davis would move over to LT and we'd have a guy fill in at RG. Brewster won't be able to be a swing tackle imo. However he could pinch in at RG I bet which would essentially be our "swing tackle". I could actually be ok with that logic.

Macarthur
01-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Nobody have an interest in Donald Penn?

zachsaints52
01-19-2010, 10:35 AM
I think you can get more then a 2nd and 4th for Witten.

E-Man
01-19-2010, 11:45 AM
I wouldn't trade Witten at all. That's poppycock!

D-Unit
01-19-2010, 12:11 PM
No way Brewster plays LT in the nfl..come training camp I think we'll see LD taking backup LT snaps..similar to what happened in GB this year when LT went down and Colledge moved over and they filled the spot on the inside.
That's probably accurate considering his college pedigree at RT. I could see him at OG if things don't work out at RT. Then if he doesn't work out there... then BUST.

I admit though... that I like his chances of being our future RT.

M.O.T.H.
01-19-2010, 12:32 PM
The same reason I trade Witten.

1) To get back multiple players I can use who might also become stars.

2) It is a position of strength where our Back-ups can start in the NFL.

Bennett can play. Choice can play.

We don't need 3 NFL quality TEs.
We don't need 3 NFL quality RBs.

It is stupid to stockpile talent for the "DEEEEEEP" bench and then lose them to other teams for nothing.

If a guy is not taking 20% of the respective snaps for their unit and they can play -- get rid of them for value or get rid of the guy in front of him for value.

Bennett + Phillips plus JAG is good enuff.
MBIII plus Choice plus JAG is good enuff.

I can get serious compensation for Witten and Jones which can address the WEAKNESSes we have elsewhere.

The WEAKNESSES which cost us the last two playoff games. a) Better OL and b) more O play makers.

Seriously, though. When you look at things...Choice is the luxury, not Felix. Felix is the best back...the guy has limitless potential. You dont trade a player of his talent. Yeah Choice is nice, but it's not a wise move. Draft picks arent sure things...you stand the risk of really taking a step backward. Even more so obviously, if you were to move Witten, because of his current role with the team already. But anyway, personally...I'd rather find a way to move Barber...yeah, you wont get as nice of a return but, Felix and Choice are both better and healthier at this point. Felix is primed and ready to take the reigns, the guy is not going anywhere and again with that talent and potential, he's pretty indispensable. As opposing fans were saying in the playoff thread on Sunday...this game just comes so easily to Felix. Choice is good but, Felix just makes you sit and watch in awe the majority of the time. He's a special player. I dont know why anyone would want to move him at all.

DMWSackMachine
01-19-2010, 02:07 PM
The idea of trading Witten for a 2nd and 4th is so ludicrous it makes my brain ache. If you trade Witten, you better get a boat load in return, otherwise you're wasting a tremendous asset.

Also, trading Felix Jones right now would be assinine. The most valuable commodities in the NFL are young players that have made it, because you get to pay them peanuts for 2 or 3 years and get top production out of them as well as hope for improvement. Felix has made it. You gain nothing by trading him. The only concern with him is injuries, while a 1st rounder, while extremely valuable, has a good chance to go bust. Just stupidity of the highest order.


As for LT, I think Flo is back. I know people don't want to hear it, but I can't see Jerry cutting him loose when he was pretty good this year and he still has 3 years left on his new extension. I like Free, but I still have major doubts about his viability as a true, bonafide LT.

M.O.T.H.
01-19-2010, 02:10 PM
I agree DMW, I'd actually be a little surprised if Flo gets cut. People seem to think he was a lot worse than he was this year. Was he great? Not at all but, he was decent enough and he's probably your best option still. Flo gets a lot of hate but, the guy still shuts down his fair share of premium pass rushers. Trent Cole was invisible and dominated in those last two Eagles games, if you want an example.

And Hamlin could just as easily be back as well. He hasnt been as bad as advertised either. Not great, and not a playmaker...certainly upgradeable but, he's just been quiet more than bad. It could go either way. I'd love an upgrade myself but, it may not happen. This year would be a great year to do it.

thule
01-19-2010, 02:11 PM
You think Jerry is going to pay Flozell 10 million this year to play LT?

M.O.T.H.
01-19-2010, 02:17 PM
His base salary is only $5 million according to rotoworld.

edit...he got most of the cash upfront. The base is basically $5 million per year throughout the contract.

Signed a $13 million signing bonus, with a $2 million 2009 base.

2010: $5 million base

2011-2013: $5.1 million base

thule
01-19-2010, 02:22 PM
Flozell Adams Tackle 2/28/2008: Signed a six-year, $43.8 million contract. The deal contains $15 million in guarantees, including a $13 million signing bonus. 2009: $1 million, 2010: $5 million, 2011-2013: $5.1 million, 2014: Free Agent. Cap charges: $3.6 million (2009), $7.6 million (2010), $7.7 million (2011-2013).

7.7 million this year with his signing bonus and his actual cap number

E-Man
01-19-2010, 03:43 PM
His base salary is only $5 million according to rotoworld.

edit...he got most of the cash upfront. The base is basically $5 million per year throughout the contract.

Signed a $13 million signing bonus, with a $2 million 2009 base.

2010: $5 million base

2011-2013: $5.1 million base

It makes things different in my mind. I was thinking that they would cut Flozell for money purposes in addition to Free's performance. This shows me that his contract isn't as big as I thought it was.

thule
01-19-2010, 03:49 PM
It makes things different in my mind. I was thinking that they would cut Flozell for money purposes in addition to Free's performance. This shows me that his contract isn't as big as I thought it was.

7.7 million is a lot of money for an owner to spend if he thinks he has a player on the roster who can play the position already. I think Jerry cuts the fat this offseason personally.

D-Unit
01-19-2010, 04:51 PM
He may cut some fat, but I don't think he does it to the point where the Cowboys start to lose their identity. Barber is a big part of our identity. I wish he would cut Bradie James... but he too is a part of our identity.

Anyone think Newman might be cut?

thule
01-19-2010, 04:53 PM
Newman is another guy who has a high cap number. Possibility to be cut...but lets be honest...does a cb core of Jenkins/Scandrick/Ball sound like something we want to go into the offseason with at CB. I think you keep him for the simple fact that he is atleast a savy vet who can play situational at a high level.

D-Unit
01-19-2010, 05:06 PM
Newman is another guy who has a high cap number. Possibility to be cut...but lets be honest...does a cb core of Jenkins/Scandrick/Ball sound like something we want to go into the offseason with at CB. I think you keep him for the simple fact that he is atleast a savy vet who can play situational at a high level.
Actually, Jenkins/Scandrick/Ball doesn't sound like a dire situation. We would have to put a high emphasis on CB in the draft though (I hope we do regardless). I know Newman is a vet, but he's not a vocal guy or even the QB of the secondary. His loss may even turn out to be an upgrade. I could deal with a 1st or 2nd round CB getting plenty of playing time. Between Donovan Warren, Perrish Cox, Amari Spievey, Kyle Wilson, Kareem Jackson... I could be at ease with those guys.

Now if Newman makes the move to FS... then he's a keeper. I'd personally like to see how that would work out.

thule
01-19-2010, 06:46 PM
Blah I think Newman is a good enough player to warrant a spot on this team. He might be a tad over paid..but we aren't going to get better for cheaper in FA...and another young guy scares me. Ball hasn't shown anyone anything at corner why assume he can play the RCB position in nickel packages....Newman has manned that spot since Scandricks moved down to the nickel back. Than bringing in another young guy to replace Newman...idk just sounds like a lot of if's and chance to go into something when we already have a serviceable player in Newman.

D-Unit
01-19-2010, 06:50 PM
What do you think of Newman at FS? It's a shot in the dark, but it intrigues me. It's obvious his corner skills are starting to diminish, even though he finished the season strong.

thule
01-19-2010, 06:57 PM
What do you think of Newman at FS? It's a shot in the dark, but it intrigues me. It's obvious his corner skills are starting to diminish, even though he finished the season strong.

He's always sucked in zone coverage...and his mental lapses this year haven't been promising. Add in the fact that he isn't exactly a wrap up tackler...he is always diving at feet or leading with his shoulder for the big hit....I don't think it's likely. Although I'm all for extending his career. He's a man on man specialist...give him an assignment and he will shut them down. Ask Santana Moss and Steve Smith...two guys he always gets to shadow all game. When he has to think is when we see problems. I understand that can lead to scheming problems...but you can make him a situational player if that is a big problem.

D-Unit
01-20-2010, 04:53 PM
He's always sucked in zone coverage...and his mental lapses this year haven't been promising. Add in the fact that he isn't exactly a wrap up tackler...he is always diving at feet or leading with his shoulder for the big hit....I don't think it's likely. Although I'm all for extending his career. He's a man on man specialist...give him an assignment and he will shut them down. Ask Santana Moss and Steve Smith...two guys he always gets to shadow all game. When he has to think is when we see problems. I understand that can lead to scheming problems...but you can make him a situational player if that is a big problem.
That is very true... and probably the deal breaker.

thule
01-20-2010, 05:06 PM
That is very true... and probably the deal breaker.

He can play man on TE's, and elite NFL WRs....he can play on this team...however the problem I see with this is teams will know when he is on the field he is going to be doing this. Anytime you tip your hat to opposing defenses it can be exposed...screens to his area...draws....QB scrambles...there sure are worse things...but I think he can play out the life of his contract here. I don't see him losing his spot next year...and I sure think he has value as atleast a situational player...where you go against Desean Jackson 2 times a year...just let him shadow the NFL bests...and the rest really shouldn't be that tough. Sad to say he can't handle the mental aspect...but for whatever reason that was a huge problem this year.

LonghornsLegend
01-21-2010, 12:11 PM
Free played great at LT from everything I saw, I watched him nearly every play and he stood up with JA and did a very solid job. He's earned the right to play there next year and I think he'll be a good one. The more I learn about him the more I like, he's a hard worker and a natural LT anyway, he's progressed nicely and regardless of what happens to Flo Free will be better over there.

Columbo is still a starting caliber RT, it's time to look to draft a future replacement, maybe Brewster, but he's still going to start over there. I don't really see the need to shake up too much else, but this is why I like Iupati so much. He can play RT, or any guard spot and probably be a pro bowler with a very high floor and very little bust probability.


Free is ready, we won't find a better LT with our 1st, even if there was value it would probably be a guy who would need to develop a year or 2 anyhow.


It was really a blessing in disguise to get Columbo hurt, then the small victory in the Vikes game was Flozell getting hurt so we even got a look at him on the other side. Had neither of these happened we would have had no idea what we had and would of been taking a blind leap of faith from what we saw in practice.

herniateddisc
01-21-2010, 02:04 PM
He can play man on TE's, and elite NFL WRs....he can play on this team...however the problem I see with this is teams will know when he is on the field he is going to be doing this. Anytime you tip your hat to opposing defenses it can be exposed...screens to his area...draws....QB scrambles...there sure are worse things...but I think he can play out the life of his contract here. I don't see him losing his spot next year...and I sure think he has value as atleast a situational player...where you go against Desean Jackson 2 times a year...just let him shadow the NFL bests...and the rest really shouldn't be that tough. Sad to say he can't handle the mental aspect...but for whatever reason that was a huge problem this year.

Well good to see company on the I hate TNew bandwagon.

Far too long he has been a talented mistake prone player. Just does not understand situations and how he needs to focus on his assignment in order to avoid big plays.

D-Unit
01-21-2010, 02:25 PM
Free played great at LT from everything I saw, I watched him nearly every play and he stood up with JA and did a very solid job. He's earned the right to play there next year and I think he'll be a good one. The more I learn about him the more I like, he's a hard worker and a natural LT anyway, he's progressed nicely and regardless of what happens to Flo Free will be better over there.

Columbo is still a starting caliber RT, it's time to look to draft a future replacement, maybe Brewster, but he's still going to start over there. I don't really see the need to shake up too much else, but this is why I like Iupati so much. He can play RT, or any guard spot and probably be a pro bowler with a very high floor and very little bust probability.


Free is ready, we won't find a better LT with our 1st, even if there was value it would probably be a guy who would need to develop a year or 2 anyhow.


It was really a blessing in disguise to get Columbo hurt, then the small victory in the Vikes game was Flozell getting hurt so we even got a look at him on the other side. Had neither of these happened we would have had no idea what we had and would of been taking a blind leap of faith from what we saw in practice.
The problem with Iupati is that everyone wants him, but nobody wants to say admit that he'll be a bench player. Why draft a Guard in the first round, if he's not going to start?

I'm totally against this.

As for RT, Brewster should be ready when Columbo is done. Columbo is an excellent RT. He had a horrible day against the Vikings giving up 3 sacks, but he only gave up 1 sack prior to that on the year.

M.O.T.H.
01-21-2010, 02:40 PM
Yah, I wouldnt be too hard on Colombo. When healthy, he's arguably our best lineman. The guy came back from an injury that was supposed to end his season. He's not exactly 100% and you could def. see it last week. Gah he was slow off the snap, he was being run around but, this isnt typical. He should be fine. Honestly, even though Colombo worked his ass off to come back, Free probably should have never been pulled in the first place. Not to say, Free won the job outright but, more so having to do with Colombo's health.

LonghornsLegend
01-21-2010, 06:33 PM
The problem with Iupati is that everyone wants him, but nobody wants to say admit that he'll be a bench player. Why draft a Guard in the first round, if he's not going to start?

I'm totally against this.

As for RT, Brewster should be ready when Columbo is done. Columbo is an excellent RT. He had a horrible day against the Vikings giving up 3 sacks, but he only gave up 1 sack prior to that on the year.


I'd start him at LG right away, but that's just me. He'll be a stud, not somebody I'm lobbying for but for a player his caliber it would be almost a steal at that point in the draft especially with his versatility.