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4thand18
01-18-2010, 06:33 PM
hey everybody...newbie to the forums, hoping to find some good and knowledgeable opinions and arguments (my buddies just aren't cutting it anymore!!)

what do you guys think about bradford going to the skins? i'm thinking it's a mistake...a top 5 qb is hardly a lock and i think the redskins have enough talent around campbell that he could make it work and sneak into the playoffs in the near future

RaiderNation
01-18-2010, 06:37 PM
I think Clausen is the better fit for the skins. He is very similar to Cutler with his body type, arm and athleticism. Cutler did well with Shanahan and I could see Clausen in a Redskns jersey

4thand18
01-18-2010, 06:39 PM
do you think clausen is worth a top 5 pick? if he goes that early, i wouldnt be surprised if its because the chiefs (and weiss) took him and look to deal cassell

RaiderNation
01-18-2010, 06:45 PM
do you think clausen is worth a top 5 pick? if he goes that early, i wouldnt be surprised if its because the chiefs (and weiss) took him and look to deal cassell

Clausen is my top rated QB right now and Id take him with a top 5 pick if my team needed to get a franchise QB

Chiefs just signed Cassell to a fat contract so Id find it hard to deal him

JRTPlaya21
01-18-2010, 06:49 PM
Bradford to Washington would probably cause me to break my tv and stop watching the draft forever...

4thand18
01-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Clausen is my top rated QB right now and Id take him with a top 5 pick if my team needed to get a franchise QB

Chiefs just signed Cassell to a fat contract so Id find it hard to deal him

i don't think they'll do it (after all, Cassell is a NE man, as are weiss crennel and pioli) but i would not be surprised

bored of education
01-18-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't think anything matters until Mike Shanahan knows what he wants and if he thinks Campbell can be the guy or not.

Shane P. Hallam
01-18-2010, 06:58 PM
I don't think anything matters until Mike Shanahan knows what he wants and if he thinks Campbell can be the guy or not.

Truth. Either way, they will keep Campbell. Cheap, and 1 year contract for him.

keylime_5
01-18-2010, 07:00 PM
right now most expect Bradford still to be the top QB this year, but that might change. In fact I think the odds of Clausen going first are pretty good. Bradford's accuracy make it seem like he's a natural fit in the WCO, however Clausen doesn't have as many ?s as Bradford - who played in a shotgun spread offense, didn't have to read defenses, and has durability concerns, all the while not having an average arm.

Babylon
01-18-2010, 07:03 PM
hey everybody...newbie to the forums, hoping to find some good and knowledgeable opinions and arguments (my buddies just aren't cutting it anymore!!)

what do you guys think about bradford going to the skins? i'm thinking it's a mistake...a top 5 qb is hardly a lock and i think the redskins have enough talent around campbell that he could make it work and sneak into the playoffs in the near future

I'm not as high on Bradford as others, he's accurate but not sure he's ever done well when facing a pass rush and he's a system QB. I may be in the minority here but i could see Shanahan going for Tim Tebow (another system guy) before Sam Bradford.

Scotty D
01-18-2010, 07:09 PM
Do the Skin's fans have any faith in Colt Brennan?? The Oline is pretty bad and maybe they can groom Brennan for another year, have Campbell play out his tender and improve the team overall then hand it over to Brennan.

Texas Homer
01-18-2010, 07:18 PM
Are the Redskins likely to draft OL in the 1st? Is O-Line a big need for the Skins this offseason?

Staubach12
01-18-2010, 07:26 PM
Clausen is my top QB as well and I can see him going as early as #1.

JRTPlaya21
01-18-2010, 07:47 PM
I have loads of faith in Colt. I'd love for him to get his chance. And hopefully we do draft a lineman because in my opinion that is our primary need. But by some chance the Redskins have the chance at Berry, Clausen & Okung then don't think they will not do the logical thing.

Splat
01-18-2010, 07:50 PM
do you think clausen is worth a top 5 pick? if he goes that early, i wouldnt be surprised if its because the chiefs (and weiss) took him and look to deal cassell

The main reason the Chiefs got Weis was to help Cassel they are not going to trade him one year in to a six year deal.

FUNBUNCHER
01-18-2010, 10:23 PM
The Skins Oline is decimated and their best OLineman, Chris Samuels, may retire because of a debilitating neck injury. Their Oline is made up of at best 2nd/3rd stringers.

Shanahan may want to start his tenure in D.C. with a young QB to groom, but I kinda think Shanny is smart enough to realize if the SKins can't trade down and Clausen is gone, Okung or the top rated LT prospect should be the pick.

Mr. Offseason
01-19-2010, 01:13 AM
Personally if I was the Redskins I would grab Russell Okung to solidify the LT spot for a long time and get some immediate help. That offensive line was pretty bad this past season and it's hard to fault Campbell for having trouble last year when he was sacked, what, 48 times? That is absolutely ridiculous. I can't imagine them going another direction, but crazier things have happened with Snyder at the helm.

Personally I don't like Clausen as much as you guys seem to. I think he is a 1st round QB and the best QB prospect in the draft, but to me that says more about the rest of the QB class and it's lack of talent than it does about Clausen's NFL potential. I would be pretty surprised if Clausen goes top 5 at this point, but I think he is a top 15-20 lock. We will see if he ends up going top 10 after it is all said and done.

I would feel awful for the Redskins if they drafted Bradford though. He is 1 or 2 years away from possibly being ready to step in and start, and while he has a lot of potential he comes with some serious red flags. I would much rather stick with Campbell, grab Okung and go from there than draft Bradford and not immediately upgrade the offensive line.

CashmoneyDrew
01-19-2010, 01:23 AM
I'm a big Bradford fan, but I just can't see him succeeding behind that kind of an offensive line. Just not a good fit for him.
Carolina would be a good fit for Bradford, but it seems like they might give Matt Moore a chance.

4thand18
01-21-2010, 12:56 AM
I'm not as high on Bradford as others, he's accurate but not sure he's ever done well when facing a pass rush and he's a system QB. I may be in the minority here but i could see Shanahan going for Tim Tebow (another system guy) before Sam Bradford.

not sure I could agree more

TACKLE
01-21-2010, 01:00 AM
Since when do the Redskins need a QB? http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Washington+Redskins+v+Carolina+Panthers+NWXyYaPdDo 8l.jpg

Cicero
01-21-2010, 01:49 AM
I think Clausen is the better fit for the skins. He is very similar to Cutler with his body type, arm and athleticism. Cutler did well with Shanahan and I could see Clausen in a Redskns jersey

Clausen does not have near the arm that Cutler does. Not to say Clausen doesn't have good arm strength, but Cutler has one of the 5 strongest arms in the league. I also think Cutler has better pocket mobility.

AntoinCD
01-21-2010, 02:53 AM
There's a couple of things yet to be clarified before we can really even make an educated guess about the Redskins in the draft. Firstly, if Shanahan decides he likes Campbell it's all a moot point because he won't take a QB. However after Clinton Portis publicly criticised Campbell I'm not sure how much respect he has in the lockerroom. Secondly, if Shanahan decides the best thing is to get a QB and OT in the draft he has to decide is it better to go QB then OT or vice versa. Personally I think the potential bust rate of non 1st round QBs is way too high to not take one in the first if you need one. And finally, the doctor who performed the surgery on Bradford's shoulder is employed by the Redskins. If he checks out physically and the Redskins aren't comfortable with Campbell then I think he will be the pick if he's still on the board. A combination of Bradford and Charles Brown/Jason Fox will be viewed as better than Russell Okung/Anthony Davis and Colt McCoy.

Scott Wright
01-21-2010, 04:40 AM
There's a couple of things yet to be clarified before we can really even make an educated guess about the Redskins in the draft. Firstly, if Shanahan decides he likes Campbell it's all a moot point because he won't take a QB. However after Clinton Portis publicly criticised Campbell I'm not sure how much respect he has in the lockerroom. Secondly, if Shanahan decides the best thing is to get a QB and OT in the draft he has to decide is it better to go QB then OT or vice versa. Personally I think the potential bust rate of non 1st round QBs is way too high to not take one in the first if you need one. And finally, the doctor who performed the surgery on Bradford's shoulder is employed by the Redskins. If he checks out physically and the Redskins aren't comfortable with Campbell then I think he will be the pick if he's still on the board. A combination of Bradford and Charles Brown/Jason Fox will be viewed as better than Russell Okung/Anthony Davis and Colt McCoy.

GREAT POST!

descendency
01-21-2010, 04:56 AM
I'm not as high on Bradford as others, he's accurate but not sure he's ever done well when facing a pass rush and he's a system QB. I may be in the minority here but i could see Shanahan going for Tim Tebow (another system guy) before Sam Bradford.

Tebow could at least survive behind that OL.

descendency
01-21-2010, 05:03 AM
Since when do the Redskins need a QB? http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Washington+Redskins+v+Carolina+Panthers+NWXyYaPdDo 8l.jpg

Since Snyder hates him, Bruce allen didn't draft him and shanahan didn't either. 100% of new regimes get "their Guy" at QB.

Addict
01-21-2010, 05:24 AM
Since Snyder hates him, Bruce allen didn't draft him and shanahan didn't either. 100% of new regimes get "their Guy" at QB.

You did not just diss the Coltster.

FUNBUNCHER
01-21-2010, 05:29 AM
Snyder doesn't 'hate' Colt, IMO. At TC, it would annoy some at Redskins Park how much fans would cheer for Brennan any time he stepped onto the field during scrimmages and 7 on 7s. At this point, I would conjecture that Snyder wants to see any QB who can lead this team to wins.

Because Shanahan and Brennan are West coast guys, I gotta think at some point Shanahan had a chance to scout Colt at Hawaii. GM Bruce Allen has probably updated him on Brennan's rehab from his hip injury, which should play into their decision about QB going into the draft.

If the Skins go with Okung and select Pike/LeFevour at the top of the 2nd, it tells me the Skins feel comfortable going into the season Campbell/Brennan/rookie QB.

Remember that under Jim Zorn, Brennan was NEVER allowed to start a preseason game with the first team offense, in part because many fans felt Zorn was attempting avoid a QB controversy.
I don't think that happens under Shanahan, and it should become clear after a handful of preseason games that Colt plays QB in a style more familiar to Shanahan, whereas Campbell is a game-manager who has to be reminded that in the NFL, when a 6'2 - 6-4 WR is covered one on one, 90% of the time it means they're OPEN.

It was too bad for Colt last season he was placed on IR, because if he's healthy, I think he outplays JC head to head.

4thand18
01-21-2010, 07:56 PM
You did not just diss the Coltster.

lol @ coltster

i would love to see him get a shot, at least in camp...i dont think that campbell is that bad, but has been the product of changing regimes and questionable free agent signings

we know brennan can make the throws, but can he take a snap from under center lol he probably never did at hawaii

DiG
01-21-2010, 08:08 PM
wow too many ridiculous absurd comments to know where to even start in this thread. theres a skins forum for a reason.

DiG
01-21-2010, 08:16 PM
GREAT POST!

Actually, Scott, statistically in the last 25 years the bust rate is higher for 2nd round OTs vs 1st round OTs than it is for 2nd round QBs vs 1st round QBs. And also i totally disagree with the thought that a rd1qb/rd2ot would be better viewed than a rd1ot/rd2qb. in that instance, i would trust (based on shannys history) that he liked what he saw in the rd2 qb more than the rd1 qb that he could have had or believed that the ot he took in the first was worth more than the difference between the qb prospects. and who cares how it is viewed by the media anyway. all that matters is how the players perform on the field when they get there chance.

and why does he have to fall in love with/draft a qb this year? with campbell as a rfa it gives him extra wiggle room to wait if he doesnt see what he wants available.

brat316
01-21-2010, 08:23 PM
How is Bradford's footwork and his ability to take snaps under center and read defenses while dropping back?

giant73zuma
01-21-2010, 08:43 PM
I honestly dont see how Bradford is any better of a prospect than Chase Daniels or Graham Harrell. Skins should definately go for a tackle in the first, I'm not even sure they should look to take a QB at all this year. Shanny should let Colt and Campbell fight it out this year in TC and see what he's got with those two and go QB next year if he doesn't believe in either of them.

CC.SD
01-21-2010, 09:10 PM
Clausen is my top QB as well and I can see him going as early as #1.

I am right here too, I think by the time the draft rolls around Clausen will be tough to pass on for the Rams, even with Suh looking like such a tasty morsel.

DiG
01-22-2010, 07:22 AM
also, dont forget that the skins dont just need a starting LT they need a starting RT as well. drafting just a LT does not solidify this line. theres no one on the roster right now that is worth starting on either side in Shannys offense. the tackles available in FA will dictate a lot but without a new cba the options are very limited.

AntoinCD
01-22-2010, 09:07 AM
Actually, Scott, statistically in the last 25 years the bust rate is higher for 2nd round OTs vs 1st round OTs than it is for 2nd round QBs vs 1st round QBs. And also i totally disagree with the thought that a rd1qb/rd2ot would be better viewed than a rd1ot/rd2qb. in that instance, i would trust (based on shannys history) that he liked what he saw in the rd2 qb more than the rd1 qb that he could have had or believed that the ot he took in the first was worth more than the difference between the qb prospects. and who cares how it is viewed by the media anyway. all that matters is how the players perform on the field when they get there chance.

and why does he have to fall in love with/draft a qb this year? with campbell as a rfa it gives him extra wiggle room to wait if he doesnt see what he wants available.

I agree he doesn't have to fall in love with a QB this year however if you look at the facts round 2 OTs have had a far better success rate than round 2 QBs.

Since 2000 there has been 25 2nd round OTs selected(Chris Snee was selected as a Tackle). Of those 25, there have been 7 pro bowlers and 16 of them have had at least a good proportion of starting time. I havent included William Beatty from last year who could well start in the future.

Since 2000 there has been 9 2nd round QBs taken. Of those 9, 1 has gone to the pro bowl, there are currently 2 starters and 3 others who have had decent starting experience(Josh McCown, Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens)

From where Washington would be picking in the 2nd round, since 2000 there has been no QB drafted in the 2nd round who has made the pro bowl.

DiG
01-22-2010, 10:11 AM
I agree he doesn't have to fall in love with a QB this year however if you look at the facts round 2 OTs have had a far better success rate than round 2 QBs.

Since 2000 there has been 25 2nd round OTs selected(Chris Snee was selected as a Tackle). Of those 25, there have been 7 pro bowlers and 16 of them have had at least a good proportion of starting time. I havent included William Beatty from last year who could well start in the future.

Since 2000 there has been 9 2nd round QBs taken. Of those 9, 1 has gone to the pro bowl, there are currently 2 starters and 3 others who have had decent starting experience(Josh McCown, Tavaris Jackson and Kellen Clemens)

From where Washington would be picking in the 2nd round, since 2000 there has been no QB drafted in the 2nd round who has made the pro bowl.

Take it back to the last 20 years to get a better number to be statistically relevant and youll see that 40% of RD1 OL have been probowlers vs only 12% of RD2 OL. In comparison 40% of RD1 QBs have been probowlers and 32% of RD2 QBs have been probowlers. The % of both QBs and OL that have started at least 3 years is almost the same but the bust rate is much higher for rd2 OL (40%) vs only 20% for RD1 OL. With QBs, your looking at a 40% bust rate in rd1 and a 50% bust rate in RD2. Read that twice and tell me which makes more sense...

Babylon
01-22-2010, 12:55 PM
How is Bradford's footwork and his ability to take snaps under center and read defenses while dropping back?

I think he's fine in those areas. The system and hanging in the pocket under a pass rush are questions i have. Tim Tebow gets gigged for the system he's in and Bradford not as much.

Brothgar
01-22-2010, 02:24 PM
Since Snyder hates him, Bruce allen didn't draft him and shanahan didn't either. 100% of new regimes get "their Guy" at QB.

There was this one regiem that didn't sack their QB when they started. I forget what the guys name was but he started a new regiem with the Broncos in the Mid 90s and didn't draft a first round QB till almost a decade later. Who was that guy?

Yeah I know I'm kinda being an ass in the post.

brat316
01-22-2010, 03:13 PM
I think he's fine in those areas. The system and hanging in the pocket under a pass rush are questions i have. Tim Tebow gets gigged for the system he's in and Bradford not as much.

yeah but Bradford hasn't taken a snap under center either.

CC.SD
01-22-2010, 03:13 PM
Take it back to the last 20 years to get a better number to be statistically relevant and youll see that 40% of RD1 OL have been probowlers vs only 12% of RD2 OL. In comparison 40% of RD1 QBs have been probowlers and 32% of RD2 QBs have been probowlers. The % of both QBs and OL that have started at least 3 years is almost the same but the bust rate is much higher for rd2 OL (40%) vs only 20% for RD1 OL. With QBs, your looking at a 40% bust rate in rd1 and a 50% bust rate in RD2. Read that twice and tell me which makes more sense...

Pro Bowl is a terrible success metric. Especially on the O-line where reputation and past performance contributes to pro bowl performances more than perhaps any other position. This has gotten a lot better lately but if you are taking this back 20 years you have to account for the 'dynasties' of pro bowl linemen that probably kept a lot of talented players from being factored into your analysis.

Calvin & Kevin
01-22-2010, 07:34 PM
Sorry to go way off on a tangent but something occurred to me lately... Sam Bradford, it's well known, is a Cherokee and takes pride in his heritage.

If the Redskins take him, does he make trouble? Refuse to play for them and demand a trade? Does he just make it clear in interviews and workouts that they should look elsewhere? Or does he just straight up swallow his pride for the money?

I'm sure that if anyone replies to this post at all, most of you will think I'm ridiculous for even thinking such a thing. But I'm telling you, I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Bradford was trying to avoid the Skins.

BaLLiN
01-22-2010, 08:18 PM
I've always pictured the broncos going after Clausen, with McDaniels being a NE assistant, and Weiss once upon a time OC for Belichek. McDaniels now gets a chance to nab a quarterback in a pro-style offense, whos young, and has the tools.

Babylon
01-23-2010, 03:37 PM
Sorry to go way off on a tangent but something occurred to me lately... Sam Bradford, it's well known, is a Cherokee and takes pride in his heritage.

If the Redskins take him, does he make trouble? Refuse to play for them and demand a trade? Does he just make it clear in interviews and workouts that they should look elsewhere? Or does he just straight up swallow his pride for the money?

I'm sure that if anyone replies to this post at all, most of you will think I'm ridiculous for even thinking such a thing. But I'm telling you, I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Bradford was trying to avoid the Skins.

Sam Bradford is 1/16th Cherokee. Maybe he'll sit out 1 game a year in protest.

FUNBUNCHER
01-23-2010, 04:35 PM
Sam Bradford is 1/16th Cherokee. Maybe he'll sit out 1 game a year in protest.

Wouldn't that be something if Bradford was offended by the nickname/slur 'redskins' and told his agent he would refuse to sign if picked by Washington??:eek:

And what's up with McShay saying during halftime of the Shrine game that only one QB in is mind carried a 1st round grade, Sam Bradford?

How can any analyst believe that Clausen isn't worth picking in the top 32, let alone the top 10??

Babylon
01-23-2010, 05:05 PM
Wouldn't that be something if Bradford was offended by the nickname/slur 'redskins' and told his agent he would refuse to sign if picked by Washington??:eek:

And what's up with McShay saying during halftime of the Shrine game that only one QB in is mind carried a 1st round grade, Sam Bradford?

How can any analyst believe that Clausen isn't worth picking in the top 32, let alone the top 10??

McShay almost sounds like he doesnt know what he's talking about. Obviously Clausen is a 1st round pick and probably ahead of Bradford on most mocks.

I like how McShay starts then Griese agrees with him about Tebow not being an NFL QB. Griese was the one who in the first half commented on the list of needs for a QB at the next level and arm strength or delivery wasnt on the list. One says it then the other just regurgitates what someone else said. I wanted the last 3 hours of my life back after listening to those hacks.

TonyGfortheTD
01-23-2010, 05:12 PM
Mike Shanahan puts a pretty high premium on arm strength, so I'm not sure if Bradford would even be on his radar.