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Canadian_draft_fan
01-25-2010, 12:01 PM
Some real surprises to me
1. McCoy over Suh
2. JPP over Derrick Morgan

Always an interesting read, though.
On NFL website:
http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story?id=09000d5d815ee2f1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

DeathbyStat
01-25-2010, 12:04 PM
Some real surprises to me
1. McCoy over Suh
2. JPP over Derrick Morgan

Always an interesting read, though.
On NFL website:
http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story?id=09000d5d815ee2f1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

I not super high on JPP or Morgan (plus remember Mayock was huge on Ayers last year and he made little impact)

I can't wait to hear why he has mccoy over Suh....I just think he trying to be different

DiG
01-25-2010, 12:10 PM
mayock has always been my favorite of the bigtime draft gurus (not including scott wright). ive been looking forward to his rankings for a while. i havent had a chance to read through them all in detail yet but right away i notice a lack of brian price.

CashmoneyDrew
01-25-2010, 12:13 PM
Dexter McCluster in front of Montario Hardesty puzzles me.

DeathbyStat
01-25-2010, 12:23 PM
I would likely put Earl Thomas over Mays. I'd say Jerry Hughes is too low

DiG
01-25-2010, 12:30 PM
Dexter McCluster in front of Montario Hardesty puzzles me.

he definitely showed this year his ability to be a game changer but i agree to classify mccluster ahead of hardesty as a "running back" is quite surprising. i dont know that id classify him as a wr either though. either way i think hardesty is drafted ahead of mccluster.

JRTPlaya21
01-25-2010, 12:30 PM
McCluster should not be at 4. Devin McCourty love is gonna make Scotty cream himself.

yourfavestoner
01-25-2010, 12:37 PM
Through the years, I've learned to take anything Mayock says about skill positions (especially DBs - he's excellent at scouting them) as the bible and totally disregard anything he says about offensive and defensive linemen.

stephenson86
01-25-2010, 12:39 PM
mccoy over suh, i dont mind, personally i feel mccoy may be more suited as an NFL DT than suh

TACKLE
01-25-2010, 12:55 PM
I love Mayock. I know he's some what of a polarizing figure when it comes to the draft but the guy knows his stuff and has well-thought out, original opinions. These are actually pretty conservative for his first rankings.

GoRavens
01-25-2010, 12:59 PM
Pat Angerer is an awesome linebacker name

Giantsfan1080
01-25-2010, 01:05 PM
McCourty is going to up his stock a lot at the Senior Bowl this week.

Babylon
01-25-2010, 01:46 PM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.

The Sam Bradford love puzzles me also. System guy who hasnt been staying healthy lately and doesnt perform very well with people in his face. Give me Clausen and dare i say Tim Tebow over Bradford.

superpack84
01-25-2010, 01:49 PM
Mayock seems to do this every year through. Then as time goes on, his ranking's comes out to be about even with the others.

TACKLE
01-25-2010, 02:43 PM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.

The tape where McCoy is far more explosive and more disruptive in the oppositions backfield. He also has a better repertoire of pass rush moves. I'm not saying McCoy is better than Suh but there is an argument to be made depending on which type of DT you prefer. I don't think the gap is nearly as big as you think it is.

eagles6606
01-25-2010, 02:49 PM
I can understand the Mccoy over Suh ranking. Even though Suh had that wow kind of year, you could say Mccoy had the better overall career. Also he is probobally a better pass rusher than Suh.

2KD@VIS
01-25-2010, 02:54 PM
im reel high on perrish cox, hope my falcons get 'em

FUNBUNCHER
01-25-2010, 03:29 PM
Mayock has a thoughtful, educated opinion, and whatever he says always gets weight in my book, but Mayock was one of those super high on Vols DE Robert Ayers, despite him being a non factor in college for 4 years.

Agree with Babylon that Mayock is trying to be a contrarian by picking McCoy as a better prospect than. Suh. McCoy may have his positive attributes, but there's very little argument to suggest McCoy should be ranked ahead of Suh, even though both will probably be top 3 picks.

All I really care about if someone is going to give a professional opinion, that it's supported by film study and a multi-tiered breakdown of the prospect.
No need for Mayock to act like an attention *****.

EDIT: How is JPP his top DE??

Mayock ranks too many of his top guys based on pure potential and rarely factors in their production in college.
Top DE prospects usually 'show' in college; game in and game out they can't be blocked, doesn't really matter how many sacks they get because they are always creating pressure in the backfield.
Brandon Graham, among others, fits this profile more than JPP.

SeanTaylorRIP
01-25-2010, 04:01 PM
I love Mayock, he's one of the most intelligent out there. Only problem is that when he jumps on someone's junk he won't stop drooling. I think every single time he was interviewed pre draft regardless of the topic he would find a way to say how Robert Ayers is top 5 talent.

Babylon
01-25-2010, 04:06 PM
The tape where McCoy is far more explosive and more disruptive in the oppositions backfield. He also has a better repertoire of pass rush moves. I'm not saying McCoy is better than Suh but there is an argument to be made depending on which type of DT you prefer. I don't think the gap is nearly as big as you think it is.

We do agree on most things but probably not here. Granted i didnt see every game of these two but i saw a guy in Suh that just flat out dominated. His ability to use his hands to toss blockers aside was as good as anyone i've seen since Reggie White. McCoy will make someone (probably Detroit) very happy so we might be splitting hairs but i like Suh's ability to take over a game. One more thing i think Suh might be better as a 3-4 DE, McCoy more inside.

619
01-25-2010, 06:02 PM
Through the years, I've learned to take anything Mayock says about skill positions (especially DBs - he's excellent at scouting them) as the bible and totally disregard anything he says about offensive and defensive linemen.

Probably because he played DB and it is a natural thing for him to analyze + critique those skill positions.

One thing I noticed is the omission of Donovan Warren, though I may be a lot higher on him than most on here. I'd have him behind Haden and Wilson, fourth would be Robinson, while Cox and McCourty would virtually be tied for the fifth spot. I just can't leave off McCourty as he's been growing on me for a long time now; a weapon in all different facets of the game like his brother, and you got to respect that.

ThePudge
01-25-2010, 06:19 PM
The tape where McCoy is far more explosive and more disruptive in the oppositions backfield. He also has a better repertoire of pass rush moves. I'm not saying McCoy is better than Suh but there is an argument to be made depending on which type of DT you prefer. I don't think the gap is nearly as big as you think it is.

Agreed. I would think that at least 1/4 of NFL teams will have Gerald McCoy on top of Suh on their board. Some people don't realize just how good and just how dominant McCoy has been the last two years. A quick, explosive athlete capable of pushing the pocket on every down. Like Suh, he requires a double team on every play. Arguably a better prospect and an unbelievable college player. On my board Suh is #1, McCoy is #2... and I don't see either slipping out of the Top 3 in April's draft.

YotoJets007
01-25-2010, 06:33 PM
I cant wait for McShay's list.

McCoy over Suh? umm.. I guess McCoy has better quickness than Suh who possesses a power rush.

JPP over Morgan? JPP may offer the best measurables in DE class at the combine.

Right or wrong? it is all depended on how team utilizes a certain prospect.

gpngc
01-25-2010, 06:34 PM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.

The Sam Bradford love puzzles me also. System guy who hasnt been staying healthy lately and doesnt perform very well with people in his face. Give me Clausen and dare i say Tim Tebow over Bradford.

System guy? Landry Jones has some good physical tools to work with and he was no where near the player Bradford was.

YotoJets007
01-25-2010, 06:50 PM
System guy? Landry Jones has some good physical tools to work with and he was no where near the player Bradford was.

It is system. Jones was only redshirt frosh. Jones should be better next season. Only difference between them is vision as Bradford picked up faster.

Iamcanadian
01-25-2010, 07:33 PM
You have to remember that these rankings are based on their college careers. There will be immense changes as the players workout at the Senior Bowl practices, the Combine and pro days.
It is one thing to look good against players in college who aren't even close to being pro prospects, it is quite another thing to look good working out against equals where all your weaknesses and strengths are clearly exposed. College coaches can hide player's weaknesses by never asking them to do things they cannot handle, the post season will test them in every way that the pro game demands.

underscore
01-25-2010, 07:40 PM
Mayock must not think too much of Navorro Bowman

cajuncorey
01-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Mike Mayock is the draft God of the decade... whatever he says goes... he predicted the whole 2008 NFL draft and most of the 2009 one. He is the prophecy.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-26-2010, 01:07 AM
College coaches can hide player's weaknesses by never asking them to do things they cannot handle, the post season will test them in every way that the pro game demands.

Unless they're juniors. Or decline to participate in a bowl. Or pass on doing a full combine workout.

It'd be foolish to say that the prelude to the NFL Draft is really a suitable analysis of every player's pro prospects. Does it help? Yes. But is the wealth of data and perspective greater than all the film of a player's college career? Not even close to close.

Iamcanadian
01-26-2010, 07:15 AM
Another fact that Mayock often says is that he has particular preferences as to which style of player he prefers. I.E he loves TE's who can block and he prefers the 4-3 defense. So if your looking at his projections and your team plays a 3-4 defensive system, these rankings may differ quite a bit from your GM's rankings.
Mayock said last year that he does little film work on the juniors till they declare and that his ranking will change substantially as he studies more film work on them. So this early ranking is just a working list at this time and not the be all and end all.

Iamcanadian
01-26-2010, 07:18 AM
Mayock said that he believes that McCoy and Suh are the 2 best prospects in the whole draft and I think it is more like a 1A and 1B scenario depending on which style of DT the GM and HC may prefer.

Iamcanadian
01-26-2010, 07:38 AM
Boy, Cody just lost himself a lot of money. Cody is now likely a late 2nd rounder or even a 3rd rounder. At that weight, the pros know he cannot play at top speed for a whole game at their level and it is my experience that these types fall on draft day. It is one thing to come into the league at 320lbs. and add weight as your career progresses, it is quite another thing to come to the Senior Bowl out of shape.
At his current weight, he is strictly a 2 down player who is worthless against the pass.
Now if he shows up at the combine at 350lbs., he may have a shot at moving up slightly if he can convince GM's he is committed to losing more weight and staying in shape but IMO, it is a long shot to happen.

Abaddon
01-26-2010, 10:13 AM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.


Pretty sure he's already made a name for himself. More likely, he's looking at McCoy's advantages in quickness and variety of moves. I'd still take Suh first, but most agree these two are 1a and 1b more than 1 and 2,


The Sam Bradford love puzzles me also. System guy who hasnt been staying healthy lately and doesnt perform very well with people in his face. Give me Clausen and dare i say Tim Tebow over Bradford.

Ah, yes. Definitely have to put Tebow over a "system guy." :rolleyes:

Come on, now. Injuries or not, you don't put a FB ahead of an actual QB.

Abaddon
01-26-2010, 10:16 AM
Boy, Cody just lost himself a lot of money. Cody is now likely a late 2nd rounder or even a 3rd rounder. At that weight, the pros know he cannot play at top speed for a whole game at their level and it is my experience that these types fall on draft day. It is one thing to come into the league at 320lbs. and add weight as your career progresses, it is quite another thing to come to the Senior Bowl out of shape.
At his current weight, he is strictly a 2 down player who is worthless against the pass.
Now if he shows up at the combine at 350lbs., he may have a shot at moving up slightly if he can convince GM's he is committed to losing more weight and staying in shape but IMO, it is a long shot to happen.

I've been thinking 4th round for a while now. Kinda thinking he's going to have to work just to get into the 4th round now.

GoHuskers
01-26-2010, 12:28 PM
Boy, Cody just lost himself a lot of money. Cody is now likely a late 2nd rounder or even a 3rd rounder. At that weight, the pros know he cannot play at top speed for a whole game at their level and it is my experience that these types fall on draft day. It is one thing to come into the league at 320lbs. and add weight as your career progresses, it is quite another thing to come to the Senior Bowl out of shape.
At his current weight, he is strictly a 2 down player who is worthless against the pass.
Now if he shows up at the combine at 350lbs., he may have a shot at moving up slightly if he can convince GM's he is committed to losing more weight and staying in shape but IMO, it is a long shot to happen.

If he really weighed 355 in season he'd have to cut a lot more than to 350. He's not even a 2 down player at bama, its usually 3 plays on 10 plays off.

Sniper
01-26-2010, 12:30 PM
Carlos Dunlap at 3? My mind...blown.

GoHuskers
01-26-2010, 12:35 PM
Not a huge shocker that somebody has McCoy over Suh, they're pretty close and a lot of people like McCoy's first step a lot. I still think its silly to put potential over a proven playmaker(not saying McCoy doesn't make plays but he's not leading his team in tackles every game) but its not as big a stretch as most fans think.

LizardState
01-26-2010, 12:36 PM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.

Kiper used to do this every yr in January, overrating a player over a highly profiled player just to stir up controversy.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Mayock is making a name for himself in the draft world.

Remember a few yrs. ago he pulled this rabbit out of his hat: Casillas as the highest rated DL in that draft after he tested positive for performance enhancing drugs & everybody down graded him. Apparently the single team interviews at the Combine worked positively for Casillas where he owned up to it & apologized publicly (wth else could he do really?), the Bolts took him despite the concerns the draftnik consensus had about him & he was an impact rookie & consistent performer for SD on their d-line ever since, made Mayock look like a genius.

San Diego Chicken
01-26-2010, 12:54 PM
Kiper used to do this every yr in January, overrating a player over a highly profiled player just to stir up controversy.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Mayock is making a name for himself in the draft world.

Remember a few yrs. ago he pulled this rabbit out of his hat: Casillas as the highest rated DL in that draft after he tested positive for performance enhancing drugs & everybody down graded him. Apparently the single team interviews at the Combine worked positively for Casillas where he owned up to it & apologized publicly (wth else could he do really?), the Bolts took him despite the concerns the draftnik consensus had about him & he was an impact rookie & consistent performer for SD on their d-line ever since, made Mayock look like a genius.

I think you mean Luis Castillo, and if you do, I haven't noticed him in three seasons, and I watch in detail every single Chargers game. He's just cashing a check, apparently.

BigBanger
01-26-2010, 04:29 PM
When i see McCoy over Suh i see someone trying to make a name for himself by going against the grain. I'd say let the tape speak for itself. No comparison to me.

The Sam Bradford love puzzles me also. System guy who hasnt been staying healthy lately and doesnt perform very well with people in his face. Give me Clausen and dare i say Tim Tebow over Bradford.
Mike Mayock is an NFL analyst on NFLNetwork. He isn't Babylon from NFLDC forums.

He wont make a name for himself by having McCoy over Suh in his initial prospect rankings. It should not be a slap in the face to Suh. McCoy is not a bum. The two are very close and McCoy has more potential, which is undeniable, than Suh. At the end of the day, the draft is all about potential. It's not ridiculous.

Kramer
01-26-2010, 04:35 PM
Mike Mayock is the same guy who predicted Aaron Rodgers to slip all the way to 24 in 2005 and he was also the one who hyped DeMarcus Ware. Great nfl draft expert, much better than Mel Kiper if that is even in argument.

stephenson86
01-26-2010, 04:38 PM
Personally I would have McCoy over Suh so I don't see why it is such a shock, Suh does have a very big following on here more so than McCoy.

brasho
01-26-2010, 05:44 PM
I really like Suh and was seriously drinking the Suh-Laide but he struggled against the bigger OL against Arizona, then I looked back when eh played Brandon Carter of Texas Tech and saw he struggled there. He struggles against giant 325+ OGs... maybe this is what Mayock is picking up on... or perhaps that Suh did dominate, but he did so as a 5th year senior (and had 5years to physically mature and gain experience), and McCoy was just in his 4th season (I personally like 3rd year junior Brian Price because he outperformed both of them in their 3rd seasons). Perhaps McCoy did better against the power OLines. I don't know the answer to that one, e did pretty well against Stanford, but the rest of the time I saw him against the finesse Big 12 OLines.

brasho
01-26-2010, 05:46 PM
My top 5 DTs (they are all all UTs)
are
1a) Suh
1b) McCoy
1c) Price
2) Houston


My team picks 3rd and I would be happy with any of the top 3 UT prospects... maybe even more so with Price.

56crash
01-26-2010, 08:15 PM
I not super high on JPP or Morgan (plus remember Mayock was huge on Ayers last year and he made little impact)

I can't wait to hear why he has mccoy over Suh....I just think he trying to be different

you are not being fare . He said a couple years from now he thought Ayers would be the best from the draft.

Brown Leader
02-15-2010, 12:11 PM
Updated top 5: (sorry no link)

Quarterbacks
1 Sam Bradford* Oklahoma
2 Jimmy Clausen*Notre Dame
3 Colt McCoy Texas
4 Tim Tebow Florida
5t Dan LeFevour Central Michigan
5t Tony Pike Cincinnati

Running backs
1 C.J. Spiller Clemson
2 Ryan Matthews*Fresno State
3 Jahvid Best*California
4 Jonathan Dwyer*Georgia Tech ^
5t Joe McKnight*Southern California
5t Dexter McCluster Mississippi

Wide receivers
1 Dez Bryant*Oklahoma State
2 Arrelious Benn*Illinois ^
3 Demaryius Thomas*Georgia Tech ^
4 Golden Tate*Notre Dame
5 Brandon Lafell LSU ^
[fall back Mardy Gilyard Cincinnati]

Tight ends
1 Jermaine Gresham*Oklahoma
2 Rob Gronkowski*Arizona
3 Dorin Dickerson Pitt ^
4 Dennis Pitta BYU
5t Ed Dickson Oregon
5t Aaron Hernandez*Florida
[fall back Anthony McCoy Southern California]

Interior linemen (guards, centers)
1 Mike Iupati Idaho
2 Maurkice Pouncey*Florida
3 Jon Asamoah Illinois
4 Rodger Saffold Indiana
5 Mike Johnson Alabama ^
[fall back Zane Beadles Utah]

Offensive tackles
1 Russell Okung Oklahoma State
2 Bryan Bulaga*Iowa
3 Anthony Davis*Rutgers
4 Trent Williams Oklahoma
5t Charles Brown Southern California ^
5t Bruce Campbell Maryland ^
5t Vladimir Ducasse Massachusetts


Defensive ends
1 Jason Pierre-Paul*South Florida
2 Derrick Morgan*Georgia Tech
3 Brandon Graham Michigan ^
4 Carlos Dunlap*Florida
5 Everson Griffen*Southern California

Defensive tackles
1 Gerald McCoy*Oklahoma
2 Ndamukong Suh Nebraska
3 Dan Williams Tennessee ^
4 Jared Odrick Penn State
5 Brian Price*California ^
[fall back Lamarr Houston Texas]

Inside linebackers
1 Rolando McClain*Alabama
2 Brandon Spikes Florida
3 Sean Lee Penn State
4 Don Butler Washington ^
5 Pat Angerer Iowa
[fall back Darryl Sharpton Miami (Fla.)]

Outside linebackers
1 Sergio Kindle Texas
2 Sean Weatherspoon Missouri
3 Daryl Washington TCU
4 Jerry Hughes TCU
5 Eric Norwood South Carolina

Cornerbacks
1 Joe Haden*Florida
2 Kyle Wilson Boise State
3 Devin McCourty Rutgers ^
4 Patrick Robinson Florida State
5 Jerome Murphy South Florida ^
[fall back Perrish Cox Oklahoma State]

Safeties
1 Eric Berry*Tennessee
2 Earl Thomas*Texas ^
3 Taylor Mays Southern California
4 Chad Jones*LSU ^
5 Nate Allen South Florida ^
[fall back Larry Asante Nebraska]

Thoughtezz?

DiG
02-15-2010, 12:20 PM
some nice changes and some surprising. demaryius thomas is a guy that is real hard to rate right now on his film given the offense he is coming from. he will sink or swim at the combine. ryan matthews absolutely deserves the #2 rb ranking and i do believe hell be a first rounder. very surprised to see perrish cox fall out of the top 5. im pretty baffled by that one

anyone know anything about don butler?

FUNBUNCHER
02-15-2010, 12:37 PM
Joe McKnight, all of 198#, is the 5th best RB in the draft, according to Mayock?

RIIIIGGGHHT.

Grizzlegom
02-15-2010, 12:37 PM
some nice changes and some surprising. demaryius thomas is a guy that is real hard to rate right now on his film given the offense he is coming from. he will sink or swim at the combine. ryan matthews absolutely deserves the #2 rb ranking and i do believe hell be a first rounder. very surprised to see perrish cox fall out of the top 5. im pretty baffled by that one

anyone know anything about don butler?

Donald Butler is the ILB at the senior bowl that Scott was raving about as well. It looks like the fact he came in much bigger than people expected (245 as opposed to 235 listed in college) and then performed well during Senior Bowl week, showing he can carry the extra weight is causing him to really rise. From what i've seen he seems like a true thumper in the middle that also has the athleticism to stay on the field in passing situations. I think he is a legit 4th rounder right now with the ability to move up even more with a strong combine.