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zachsaints52
02-01-2010, 12:48 PM
So I am the Lions GM on their mock, and Im going to keep this as strictly as a true lions fan.
First off, would you guys think about Calvin Johnson being traded? What would you guys accept for him?
I know you don't like Sims, but I have faith and unless I get a good offer for him he stays. What would be a offer?
Also, is McCoy set in stone at #2? Assuming Suh goes 1.
How would you like if I try to trade with Pats for their 1st and some seconds?

DoWnThEfiElD
02-01-2010, 01:06 PM
If we up to me we would get as many starters out of at least the first 3 rounds we can. We just have needs at almost every position.

I know some people will want to trade up to get the the guy from Idaho, but my own personal opinion is either stay where we are, or trade down from our 2nd round pick and stock pile some extra picks.

As far as Calvin goes, it would be pointless to trade him in a forum mock, because any deal is going to require multiple 1st round picks from this year and next, so I say don't bother considering it wouldn't likely carry over to a mock next year let's say.

Just don't take Cody, Dunlap (unless he falls to the forth), or Patrick Robinson and I will be happy. I just personally don't like those players haha.

Some guys in the 2nd-3rd-4th range I like, Jahvid Best, Chad Jones, Corey Wooton, Jon Asamoah, Donovan Warren.

This is all just my 2 cents. If someone falls don't be afraid to pull the trigger either. All about accumulating talent.

SINCE1978
02-01-2010, 01:46 PM
Calvin stays put ... check the threads about trading CJ & the overwhelming response to that idea was NO! I would salivate over trading the #2 overall for some 2nds & a swap of 1st rounders with NE. That goes against their tendancies however, but in fantasy land GM world it may fly? ;o) Some guys I woud like assuming we have multiple 2nd rounders ... Mike Iupati,Arthur Jones, Brandon Graham, Kyle Wilson, Brandon Ghee, Greg Hardy, Jahvid Best,Sean Weatherspoon.

Oh, if no trade takes place & Suh goes #1 to the Rams McCoy is the pick.
Thanks for asking, best of luck!

P-L
02-01-2010, 01:53 PM
First off, would you guys think about Calvin Johnson being traded? What would you guys accept for him?The starting point to the deal would have to be two 1st round picks (one in 2010 and one in 2011). In addition to that maybe a 3rd round pick this year and a 2nd round pick next year. Something involving at least three or four picks in the first three rounds.

I know you don't like Sims, but I have faith and unless I get a good offer for him he stays. What would be a offer?If you can get a 4th round pick or better than I'd say trade him. If you can't get a 4th round pick than just keep him for depth.

Also, is McCoy set in stone at #2? Assuming Suh goes 1.Simply put, yes. The Lions need to come out of this draft with Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy. I wouldn't be pissed if they got Eric Berry, but defensive line is a far greater priority than safety right now.

How would you like if I try to trade with Pats for their 1st and some seconds?It depends. We have many, many holes so we need as many picks as possible.

Brothgar
02-01-2010, 02:01 PM
Yeah trading down seems to be the popular choice. But no draftnic is really gonna do that for value.

noondog
02-01-2010, 02:01 PM
1. Do not trade Megatron.
2. McCoy is #2 behind Suh.
3. IF you trade the #2 pick to NE, you best be getting fair value, meaning at LEAST their 1st and two 2nds.
4. If everything stays as is, these would be my target 2nd's (and in this order): Iupati (doubt he's there), Graham (doubt he's there), Wilson (maybe), Cox (likely), Best (likely)

5. If McCluster is available in round 3, hit it.

6. Address guard at some point in the top 5 rounds as long as the value is there (Johnson in round 3, Asamoah, Jerry or maybe Beadles in 4 or 5?)

That is all

cotts1
02-01-2010, 02:15 PM
I know I'm in the minority on this but I happen to think Berry should seriously be considered at 2, especially if Suh goes 1. McCoy is an excellent prospect and I wouldn't be upset with him being the pick though. I also would not rule out a trade down from 2 or 34 if the right deal came along. Pats would have to give up there 1st and 2 2nds to move to move up to our pick at 2.

and Calvin isn't going anywhere...

SINCE1978
02-01-2010, 02:15 PM
1. Do not trade Megatron.
2. McCoy is #2 behind Suh.
3. IF you trade the #2 pick to NE, you best be getting fair value, meaning at LEAST their 1st and two 2nds.
4. If everything stays as is, these would be my target 2nd's (and in this order): Iupati (doubt he's there), Graham (doubt he's there), Wilson (maybe), Cox (likely), Best (likely)

5. If McCluster is available in round 3, hit it.

6. Address guard at some point in the top 5 rounds as long as the value is there (Johnson in round 3, Asamoah, Jerry or maybe Beadles in 4 or 5?)

That is all

McCoy/Wilson/McCluster/Asamoah would be off the hook.

Every-down DT (check)
Corner with swagger that backs it up(check)
Kick returner finally!! (check)
"Eraser" for CJ with gamebreaking speed ;o) (check)
10 yr LG to help old man Backus (check)

That is grabbing opportunites door knob with those 4 players!

DoWnThEfiElD
02-01-2010, 02:29 PM
I don't want to trade down from 2. I think there are three players who separated themselves from the other prospects and we need to get one of them.

McCoy is an amazing prospect, plus he graduated in 3 years and that speaks to his character and motivation. I would be absolutely ecstatic for him to be a Lion as I would with Suh or Berry.

Point of this being we are in great position at 2 to grab an elite talent, I have no motivation to trade off this spot.

detknowitall
02-01-2010, 04:00 PM
Just stop....Calvin's not getting traded and we all know it. Keep it real and keep Calvin.

SINCE1978
02-01-2010, 04:01 PM
I don't want to trade down from 2. I think there are three players who separated themselves from the other prospects and we need to get one of them.

McCoy is an amazing prospect, plus he graduated in 3 years and that speaks to his character and motivation. I would be absolutely ecstatic for him to be a Lion as I would with Suh or Berry.

Point of this being we are in great position at 2 to grab an elite talent, I have no motivation to trade off this spot.

I respect your vantage point on not wanting to trade out of #2 ... however a team that could gain 2 additional top 60 picks (making it 4 overall) would be a fantastic opportunity to add quality starters everywhere since we are in such need. Quality over quantity I guess ...
It comes down to liking:

G. McCoy(2) & B. Graham (34)
vs.
B. Price (22), B. Graham (34), K. Wilson (47) & D. McCluster (53)

I would go for quantity of picks in what I would call a deep, front loaded draft.
Follow this equation ... McCluster + Wilson + Price > McCoy

RealityCheck
02-01-2010, 04:03 PM
I respect your vantage point on not wanting to trade out of #2 ... however a team that could gain 2 additional top 60 picks (making it 4 overall) would be a fantastic opportunity to add quality starters everywhere since we are in such need. Quality over quantity I guess ...
It comes down to liking:

G. McCoy(2) & B. Graham (34)
vs.
B. Price (22), B. Graham (34), K. Wilson (47) & D. McCluster (53)

I would go for quantity of picks in what I would call a deep, front loaded draft.
Follow this equation ... McCluster + Wilson + Price > McCoy
Problem is, I'm the Pats GM and I don't want to trade up to #2.

DoWnThEfiElD
02-01-2010, 04:06 PM
I respect your vantage point on not wanting to trade out of #2 ... however a team that could gain 2 additional top 60 picks (making it 4 overall) would be a fantastic opportunity to add quality starters everywhere since we are in such need. Quality over quantity I guess ...
It comes down to liking:

G. McCoy(2) & B. Graham (34)
vs.
B. Price (22), B. Graham (34), K. Wilson (47) & D. McCluster (53)

I would go for quantity of picks in what I would call a deep, front loaded draft.
Follow this equation ... McCluster + Wilson + Price > McCoy

Yah, I still like the McCoy option.

I highly doubt Graham and Wilson both would fall that far anyway.

zachsaints52
02-01-2010, 08:35 PM
First Trade!!!
St. Lous gets: Lions 129th pick

Detroit recieves: 160th pick and...... MIKE KARNEY!!!

Reason: Not only is he a Pro Bowl caliber blocking FB, he will help solidify the running game. I don't think Jerome Felton is the type of FB we need. Thoughts?

SINCE1978
02-01-2010, 10:01 PM
Problem is, I'm the Pats GM and I don't want to trade up to #2.

No worries, this is not reality anyway ... just having fun. no way NE does something like that in April. ;o)
Yah, I still like the McCoy option.

I highly doubt Graham and Wilson both would fall that far anyway.

Fill in player A,B,C,D then however you like downthefield. It's still 4 likely starters with that proposed trade vs. 2 if we stay put. The value there to me is too great to pass up. It's not happening, no way but fun to discuss none the less.

frubulubu
02-01-2010, 10:16 PM
Trade the second to pick to Philly, they could take Berry.

frubulubu
02-01-2010, 10:19 PM
Calvin stays put ... check the threads about trading CJ & the overwhelming response to that idea was NO! I would salivate over trading the #2 overall for some 2nds & a swap of 1st rounders with NE. That goes against their tendancies however, but in fantasy land GM world it may fly? ;o) Some guys I woud like assuming we have multiple 2nd rounders ... Mike Iupati,Arthur Jones, Brandon Graham, Kyle Wilson, Brandon Ghee, Greg Hardy, Jahvid Best,Sean Weatherspoon.

Oh, if no trade takes place & Suh goes #1 to the Rams McCoy is the pick.
Thanks for asking, best of luck!

agree 100%

zachsaints52
02-02-2010, 09:45 AM
I selected Gerald McCoy.... but no response on the Karney trade?!

DoWnThEfiElD
02-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Haha based off your sig, I can tell you are pumped for the Karney trade.

zachsaints52
02-02-2010, 10:41 AM
Haha based off your sig, I can tell you are pumped for the Karney trade.

Definately. Not to mention I get a 6th with him for a 5th haha... I was gonna offer a 4th by itself. I mean, is Jerome even a decent FB? He was a RB in a town near mine, but idk about blocking and all. Karney you get a legit blocker who would help Smith/ whoever the draft gives.

cotts1
02-02-2010, 02:30 PM
Definately. Not to mention I get a 6th with him for a 5th haha... I was gonna offer a 4th by itself. I mean, is Jerome even a decent FB? He was a RB in a town near mine, but idk about blocking and all. Karney you get a legit blocker who would help Smith/ whoever the draft gives.

I suppose I like it. We could use a thumper and we wouldn't be losing a pick...

Scotty D
02-02-2010, 02:38 PM
Karney for a fourth would have been Matt Millenesque

zachsaints52
02-02-2010, 04:33 PM
Karney for a fourth would have been Matt Millenesque

Please tell me how?

DoWnThEfiElD
02-02-2010, 05:05 PM
Please tell me how?

My own two cents: This is a deep draft trading our 4th is like trading a third. Karney isn't worth a 3rd to this team given our current situation.

BTW Smith is hurt, if no other back is selected this year, then it could be far into the season before Karney is even blocking for a halfway decent back. I just don't think the value is there this year for us to trade a 4th for him.

I understand you like him and I respect that, I'm just viewing our 4th basically as a 3rd.

zachsaints52
02-02-2010, 08:02 PM
My own two cents: This is a deep draft trading our 4th is like trading a third. Karney isn't worth a 3rd to this team given our current situation.

BTW Smith is hurt, if no other back is selected this year, then it could be far into the season before Karney is even blocking for a halfway decent back. I just don't think the value is there this year for us to trade a 4th for him.

I understand you like him and I respect that, I'm just viewing our 4th basically as a 3rd.

Yeah this is a very deep draft, and I understand your reasoning. But we essintially adding a member to the offense yall run who will start for sure and do his part and do it well. and I look to trade a next year 2nd to get back up in the draft, and try to get a OL. Getting McCoy helps out. Also, I have a deal in place with another team that if their player falls and noone is a major steal i am trading back into the 10's and picking up a 3rd. Thoughts?

woodnick
02-02-2010, 08:34 PM
Yeah this is a very deep draft, and I understand your reasoning. But we essintially adding a member to the offense yall run who will start for sure and do his part and do it well. and I look to trade a next year 2nd to get back up in the draft, and try to get a OL. Getting McCoy helps out. Also, I have a deal in place with another team that if their player falls and noone is a major steal i am trading back into the 10's and picking up a 3rd. Thoughts?

I think that is a decent deal, but not if Iupati, Graham, Wilson, or a big steal are available. Picking up an additional 3rd can be a great thing in this draft, but not at the cost of missing out on what a lot of people think are sure things.

woodnick
02-02-2010, 08:39 PM
You should try to trade our 2nd, J-Pete and 2011 2nd to San Fran for #13 and draft Joe Haden!

zachsaints52
02-04-2010, 09:01 PM
1. Gerald McCoy
2. Kyle Wilson
Thoughts?

frubulubu
02-04-2010, 09:07 PM
1. Gerald McCoy
2. Kyle Wilson
Thoughts?

I would love this for the Lions, very much. I do hope Wilson is still there by the start of the second round.

zachsaints52
02-04-2010, 09:09 PM
Yeah I figured yall would like so far, not to mention the addition of Karney!!!

cotts1
02-04-2010, 09:34 PM
1. Gerald McCoy
2. Kyle Wilson
Thoughts?

sounds good to me.

noondog
02-05-2010, 08:01 AM
I would love this for the Lions, very much. I do hope Wilson is still there by the start of the second round.

P.I.M.P.

If you tell me that we got one of Mike Johnson, Jon Asamoah, Dexter McCluster or Montario Hardesty in the third, it will be boner-iffic.

Addict
02-05-2010, 11:04 AM
So let's say hypothetically the Rams go the Bradford route, that would mean both Suh and McCoy are there for the taking, who do we take?

SINCE1978
02-05-2010, 11:21 AM
So let's say hypothetically the Rams go the Bradford route, that would mean both Suh and McCoy are there for the taking, who do we take?

Ahhh ... that question. Very nice for us. If Mayhew is as sharp as he thinks he is (marinate on that) he should be on the horn to trade that sucka #2 pick. (San Francisco, New England, Philadelphia holla!) I mean likely some portion of a deal would be in place pre draft for said QB (like the past few years) & the suspense of who is #1 is gone. Thanks St. Louis ;o) So the trade is already in the works ... we acquire multiple picks & trade back to get an Eric Berry, Joe Haden, CJ Spiller, Anthony Davis, Derrick Morgan, Brian Price etc heck, McCoy might even be there depending on how far we trade back?!

If St. Louis reveals their hand early, we have so much leverage in this draft.
Suh-pendus!!! HA!

Prowler
02-05-2010, 12:37 PM
So let's say hypothetically the Rams go the Bradford route, that would mean both Suh and McCoy are there for the taking, who do we take?

suh. i like his production, vision, and hands better than mccoy's quickness. i would be open to a trade down if it was fair value and not too far down the board.

noondog
02-05-2010, 02:30 PM
The Suh-clear bomb! RUN to the podium!

cotts1
02-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Suh- 55 GP 200 TKL 56 TFL 26.5 sacks
McCoy- 40 GP 83 TKL 33 TFL 14.5 sacks

Both are awesome, but Suh is just sick, thus I would go Suh.

I also would not mind trading down if a good deal came along. Hopefully St. Louis takes Bradford and Seattle really likes Clausen. Washington could pose a threat to Seattle, forcing them to move up. If we could swap picks with Seattle (2 for 6) for their 2nd rounder (pick 40) that would be awesome...

DrunkenLament
02-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Suh- 55 GP 200 TKL 56 TFL 26.5 sacks
McCoy- 40 GP 83 TKL 33 TFL 14.5 sacks

Both are awesome, but Suh is just sick, thus I would go Suh.

I also would not mind trading down if a good deal came along. Hopefully St. Louis takes Bradford and Seattle really likes Clausen. Washington could pose a threat to Seattle, forcing them to move up. If we could swap picks with Seattle (2 for 6) for their 2nd rounder (pick 40) that would be awesome...

Its a great thing college stats are a direct correlation to pro success.

Prowler
02-05-2010, 04:53 PM
they both played in the same conference against the exact same competition so these mean a little bit more than average.

Scotty D
02-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Its a great thing college stats are a direct correlation to pro success.

I do think the TFLs and sacks are more important than tackles or INTs, especially from the DT position.

SINCE1978
02-05-2010, 10:08 PM
Don't make me throw Tebow's stats up here boys! ;o)

cotts1
02-06-2010, 01:43 PM
Its a great thing college stats are a direct correlation to pro success.

Regardless, 200 tackles from a DT is ridiculous....

Addict
02-07-2010, 02:51 PM
Regardless, 200 tackles from a DT is ridiculous....

It really is completely insane, although I do want to say that McCoy's linemates have been better than Suh's. Not to take anything away from Suh's freakishness, but he was one of the few playmaker @ nebraska.

Regardless: Suh is creepy good. But saying he's THAT much better than anyone else really isn't fair by McCoy.

zachsaints52
02-07-2010, 04:08 PM
It really is completely insane, although I do want to say that McCoy's linemates have been better than Suh's. Not to take anything away from Suh's freakishness, but he was one of the few playmaker @ nebraska.

That just shows his stats were more amazing, when he was double and tripled teamed haha

tblain1
02-08-2010, 11:51 AM
Its a great thing college stats are a direct correlation to pro success.

I think for DT they mean more than say QB. Especially when you add in the factors of the conference he was in, the pressure he faced when being doubled constantly and the fact that his stats are so great for his position. You don't often see that many tackles from a DT. The stats are just a measure of production.

zachsaints52
02-08-2010, 12:47 PM
Alright guys, getting a DT and CB. Whats next? OG? DE?

noondog
02-08-2010, 01:15 PM
Alright guys, getting a DT and CB. Whats next? OG? DE?

Who's available at each position right now?

RealityCheck
02-08-2010, 01:19 PM
Ricky Sapp is still available, I'd take him if I was Zach.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-08-2010, 02:13 PM
OG is Mike Johnson available?

woodnick
02-08-2010, 03:11 PM
I'd say the BPA is Jonathan Dwyer, gotta give your boy Karney someone to block for!

zachsaints52
02-08-2010, 03:16 PM
Got Dwyer. Next pick will be OL for sure!

woodnick
02-08-2010, 03:19 PM
Got Dwyer. Next pick will be OL for sure!

Bingo! Good move and now you can try to target Roger Saffold or John Jerry for LG.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
02-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Got Dwyer. Next pick will be OL for sure!

Bazinga!!!!! Really good draft.

SINCE1978
02-08-2010, 10:06 PM
LG is ideal (Jerry is the most recognizable riser but Sergio Render could be a solid pick too). However do not slip on BPA if say a 3rd round graded WR or DE slips. I like Shipley or Roberts as the "eraser" for CJ if available. Also, Alex Carrington would be solid in round 4 if not off the board already.

zachsaints52
02-09-2010, 12:10 AM
LG is ideal (Jerry is the most recognizable riser but Sergio Render could be a solid pick too). However do not slip on BPA if say a 3rd round graded WR or DE slips. I like Shipley or Roberts as the "eraser" for CJ if available. Also, Alex Carrington would be solid in round 4 if not off the board already.

I got Alex Carrington to the Chargers :P
Shipley is gone to the Patriots.
Ill see either OG or WR/DE

Scotty D
02-09-2010, 09:20 AM
What round is it? Jacoby Ford is a good prospect if available. Blair White in the fifth would be nice.

woodnick
02-12-2010, 08:27 AM
Lions are up in the mock draft, who should they take? They already got McCoy, Wilson, and Dwyer.

I would say either: Rodger Saffold, Jerome Murphy, or Myron Lewis and probably in this order.

I think Saffold would really be a good LG, where as I kind of think that Murphy and Lewis could be brought in to compete at CB, but if they can't beat out Buchanon then they both could switch over to FS and move Delmas to SS.

zachsaints52
02-12-2010, 08:49 AM
I just got John Jerry

woodnick
02-12-2010, 09:24 AM
I just got John Jerry

That works, I personally see him as a RG compared to Saffold as a LG, which is what we need, but maybe thats just me.

Great job on the mock draft so far!

SINCE1978
02-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Lions are up in the mock draft, who should they take? They already got McCoy, Wilson, and Dwyer.

I would say either: Rodger Saffold, Jerome Murphy, or Myron Lewis and probably in this order.

I think Saffold would really be a good LG, where as I kind of think that Murphy and Lewis could be brought in to compete at CB, but if they can't beat out Buchanon then they both could switch over to FS and move Delmas to SS.

Great analysis woodnick ... So yo uare real high on Saffold huh? I never saw him play, is he versatile enough to play T as well? Sell em on his strong points, ord knows we need a LG!

I just got John Jerry

Jerry is a very large man. His stock rose quickly during/after the senior bowl which means he held his own against the best. (not named Suh or McCoy) I like our pick so far.

woodnick
02-12-2010, 12:01 PM
Great analysis woodnick ... So yo uare real high on Saffold huh? I never saw him play, is he versatile enough to play T as well? Sell em on his strong points, ord knows we need a LG!



Jerry is a very large man. His stock rose quickly during/after the senior bowl which means he held his own against the best. (not named Suh or McCoy) I like our pick so far.

I've only seen Saffold play a couple of times, but everything I've read on him sounds like he dominated during the East-West Shrine Bowl practices and game. In Practice, playing LT, it sounds like he more than held his own against Greg Hardy, Witten, etc.

In general I've heard some questions about his ability to be a LT, supposedly he's inconsistent while handling the speed rushers which kind of reminds me of the knock on Backus.

I've also read that he does a good job of being able to get low and take on bigger D-Lineman and athletic enough to pull/get to the 2nd level. His size and strenghts/weaknesses reminds me of other good LGs, namely Steinbach and Kris Dielman, not to say that Saffold is guaranteed to be on that level because he is not.

Jerry kind of concerns me with his weight, but when he's motivated he seems like he can really play up. Kind of sounds like a young versoin of Damien Woody, but he seems to have good potential.

noondog
02-12-2010, 04:01 PM
I'm a big fan of this mock draft so far. Good job bud.

woodnick
02-14-2010, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=SINCE1978;2014326]Great analysis woodnick ... So yo uare real high on Saffold huh? I never saw him play, is he versatile enough to play T as well? Sell em on his strong points, ord knows we need a LG!

Also found this on Saffold, really like everything I read on him:

01/20/2010 - EAST-WEST SHRINE RISERS: OT Roger Saffold, Indiana: It's hard to argue anyone but Saffold was the best player on the field this week. He was strong, moved his feet well in pass protection and when drive-blocking gave good effort through the end of plays, and was mobile enough to hit targets at the second level. Some scouts will project him inside, but it appears the 3.5-year starter at left tackle should at least get a chance to prove he can handle those responsibilities. A third-round selection seems likely for Saffold at this point in the process. - Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, *************.com

01/19/2010 - East-West Shrine Tuesday Practice: The matchup between Ole Miss defensive end Greg Hardy and Indiana tackle Roger Saffold was worth the price of the flight to Orlando. Saffold controlled Hardy in most one-on-one drills, eating up a spin move, turning him and allowing him no space in which to work. - Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, *************.com

01/18/2010 - East-West Shrine Monday Practice: Indiana offensive tackle Roger Saffold is a player to watch - the explosion he displayed coming out of his stance and his mobility to the second level were impressive, even without pads on. On one play, he gave Purdue defensive tackle Mike Neal a good ride off the snap, and Neal has plenty of strength himself. Saffold has the strength and footwork to be among the 10 tackles potentially selected in the top 100 this year. - Chad Reuter, The Sports Xchange, *************.com

woodnick
02-17-2010, 03:15 PM
Jump on Jerome Murphy when you are up!

zachsaints52
02-18-2010, 01:35 PM
Got Jerome Murphy

woodnick
02-18-2010, 01:57 PM
Got Jerome Murphy

Nice, you got a great draft going on!

zachsaints52
02-21-2010, 11:26 PM
Gerald McCoy DT
Kyle Wilson CB
Johnathan Dwyer RB
John Jerry OG
Aleric Mullins DT
Blair White WR

Added:
Mike Karney

Im done guys, rip it apart!

Prowler
02-22-2010, 03:32 AM
looks great. i'd let you draft for mayhew.