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Mr.KnowItAll
12-23-2009, 01:03 PM
Thought this was kinda suprising. Usually the Seniors that don't play are ones with a high draft grade.

http://jacksonville.com/sports/college/florida_gators/2009-12-22/story/tim_tebow_is_undecided_on_playing_in_senior_bowl

brat316
12-23-2009, 01:04 PM
cause he a *****

Cigaro
12-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Dumbass. Of course, maybe it means scouts won't see his horrid quarterbacking.

D-Unit
12-23-2009, 01:20 PM
Dumbass. Of course, maybe it means scouts won't see his horrid quarterbacking.
So why would that make him a dumbass? Seems like a smart move on his part.

Cigaro
12-23-2009, 01:25 PM
So why would that make him a dumbass? Seems like a smart move on his part.

It'll drop his stock IMO. The only way it works out for him IMO is if he is dead set on being an NFL quarterback. But if he's open to being a fullback, he needs to go, since apparently they wanted him to play there some.

Mr.Regular
12-23-2009, 01:27 PM
Smart. A week of practices in an offense he has never played in would make him look awful.
His stock will go up through things like interviews and work outs. This would probably hurt him.

D-Unit
12-23-2009, 01:30 PM
It'll drop his stock IMO. The only way it works out for him IMO is if he is dead set on being an NFL quarterback. But if he's open to being a fullback, he needs to go.
Hogwash. NFL personel have already spoken highly of him. I'll be surprised if he drops out of the first 2 rounds. Going to the Senior Bowl might turn him into a 3rd or 4th rounder. No one thinks it'll boost his stock and that's the only reason guys even go the the Senior Bowl.

CC.SD
12-23-2009, 01:37 PM
Probably has more to do with the transition from a spread offense to a traditional one that it does with the fullback stuff.

YotoJets007
12-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Or he actually means that NFL is not his destination.

D-Unit
12-23-2009, 01:45 PM
Or he actually means that NFL is not his destination.
Yeah, that makes sense. You HAVE TO go to the Senior Bowl if you want to play in the NFL. pft. :/

yourfavestoner
12-23-2009, 02:02 PM
Guys, it doesn't say he's not going to play in it. Or even that he doesn't want to.

I don’t know. I haven’t talked to anybody about it,” Tebow said. “If the people I talk to that are wise think that I should play in it, I’ll go play in it. If they don’t, I won’t. I don’t know. I’ll do whatever I need to do [to impress NFL scouts and GMs] — throw out here a million times, I don’t care.

Non-story here.

eagles6606
12-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Scouts will be upset because they wont see him run a traditional NFL offense. However this is probobally a good move for Tebow. A bad showing could really hurt his draft stock, somiliar to Graham Harrell though not that dramatic. Tebow has many flaws and the senior bowl could magnify them.

Day One Pick
12-23-2009, 02:28 PM
With Tebow not taking snaps under center, it wouldn't be smart to play in this game and basically have a week to get comfortable under center and more importantly display good footwork. The Senior Bowl really isn't in his best interest and would be a huge mistake. With Florida playing after New Year's Day he wouldn't have a ton of time to work on it prior to the Senior Bowl week. Joe Flacco was faced with this problem but he started right after his season at Deleware working with a QB's coach. I forget who it was, but remember it was one of Mike Mayock's friends. The Senior Bowl ultimately got Flacco into the first round in my opinion.

Babylon
12-23-2009, 02:30 PM
This smells of the NBA to me, let's somehow see if we can backdoor the whole process. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt till he doesnt show up but be prepared to be lambasted if he skips.

brat316
12-23-2009, 08:19 PM
How about Colt Brennan? He didn't do to bad taking snaps under center.

PossibleCabbage
12-23-2009, 08:26 PM
Well, on one hand he's nuts. Because he's a player with a lot of question marks about his ability to adapt to a pro-style offense, and NFL personnel people will never have a better chance to evaluate him in a variety of positions, formations, and situations than during senior bowl practices. It's his single best chance to dispell the many, many, many questions that an NFL team would have about him.

On the other hand, this might be inspired because Andre Woodson went to the senior bowl a few years back, Mike Martz had him try to throw a few 7-step drops and all of a sudden he went from a 1st or 2nd round pick to a 6th round pick.

Either way though, this doesn't speak well to the pro prospects of Tebow. Since if I was an NFL personnel person, the Senior Bowl would be Tebow's chance to convince me that he has a future in a traditional pro-style offense. If he refuses to try to convince me, I'm not just going to start ignoring all of the potential weaknesses that I was hoping to evaluate. I mean, it's not as though this guy has a high first round grade at this point. He probably doesn't even have a first round grade from the majority of NFL teams.

TitanHope
12-23-2009, 08:36 PM
Well, on one hand he's nuts. Because he's a player with a lot of question marks about his ability to adapt to a pro-style offense, and NFL personnel people will never have a better chance to evaluate him in a variety of positions, formations, and situations than during senior bowl practices. It's his single best chance to dispell the many, many, many questions that an NFL team would have about him.

On the other hand, this might be inspired because Andre Woodson went to the senior bowl a few years back, Mike Martz had him try to throw a few 7-step drops and all of a sudden he went from a 1st or 2nd round pick to a 6th round pick.

Either way though, this doesn't speak well to the pro prospects of Tebow. Since if I was an NFL personnel person, the Senior Bowl would be Tebow's chance to convince me that he has a future in a traditional pro-style offense. If he refuses to try to convince me, I'm not just going to start ignoring all of the potential weaknesses that I was hoping to evaluate. I mean, it's not as though this guy has a high first round grade at this point. He probably doesn't even have a first round grade from the majority of NFL teams.

Pretty much this. Skipping it would be the safer move, but if he goes in and executes the offense well, then that'd certainly help his prospects of playing QB at the next level. It just depends on if that reward would be worth the risk of bombing it and possibly having no choice but to make the change to H-Back at the next level before he's even drafted.

YotoJets007
12-23-2009, 08:40 PM
How about Colt Brennan? He didn't do to bad taking snaps under center.


It does not matter because there is no blitz and stunt allowed in any scouting bowls.

PossibleCabbage
12-23-2009, 08:51 PM
It does not matter because there is no blitz and stunt allowed in any scouting bowls.

I'm pretty sure the practices are way more important for scouting purposes than the actual game. Are they also prevented from blitzing in practice?

Day One Pick
12-23-2009, 08:56 PM
How about Colt Brennan? He didn't do to bad taking snaps under center.

Brennan was a train wreck that week. If the Sugar Bowl wasn't bad enough, the Senior Bowl was the nail in the coffin as far as his draft stock went.

Day One Pick
12-23-2009, 09:01 PM
Well, on one hand he's nuts. Because he's a player with a lot of question marks about his ability to adapt to a pro-style offense, and NFL personnel people will never have a better chance to evaluate him in a variety of positions, formations, and situations than during senior bowl practices. It's his single best chance to dispell the many, many, many questions that an NFL team would have about him.

On the other hand, this might be inspired because Andre Woodson went to the senior bowl a few years back, Mike Martz had him try to throw a few 7-step drops and all of a sudden he went from a 1st or 2nd round pick to a 6th round pick.

Either way though, this doesn't speak well to the pro prospects of Tebow. Since if I was an NFL personnel person, the Senior Bowl would be Tebow's chance to convince me that he has a future in a traditional pro-style offense. If he refuses to try to convince me, I'm not just going to start ignoring all of the potential weaknesses that I was hoping to evaluate. I mean, it's not as though this guy has a high first round grade at this point. He probably doesn't even have a first round grade from the majority of NFL teams.

Right now he's going to get somebody to reach and over-draft him. Why should he do anything to risk that? I hear what you are saying, but put yourself in his shoes.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if the Raiders took him in the top 10. Honest to God that's how I feel. Al Davis is such a jackass I can totally see him doing that. High profile, controversial pick, does that sound like Al Davis? I half think he does what he does just for the attention. You know if Tebow ends up being a good pro Al Davis wants to be the guy who "saw his potential."

YotoJets007
12-23-2009, 09:04 PM
I'm pretty sure the practices are way more important for scouting purposes than the actual game. Are they also prevented from blitzing in practice?


Yup I believe so because I watched the Senior Bowl week and saw no blitz and stunt.

Scouts only come to meet prospects in person and watch them practice because they study prospects' attitude and performance changing on each same rep. Afterward, they leave for home or franchise business or whatever instead of stay and watch the game because of rule limits that are designed to protect prospects (AKA fake game). Scouts will need game tapes for further review.

YotoJets007
12-23-2009, 09:06 PM
Brennan was a train wreck that week. If the Sugar Bowl wasn't bad enough, the Senior Bowl was the nail in the coffin as far as his draft stock went.


Martz changed his arm mechanic right away. That is why he struggled mightily during Senior week and game.

descendency
12-23-2009, 09:07 PM
Whoa. I can't believe the level of utter stupidity that is involved when Tim Tebow's name is mentioned.

He's 6'3", 240lbs. Runs a 4.5-4.6 40 yard dash. Has intangibles and leadership qualities that teams look for. At worst, he's a project where-ever you put him (that never finds a position and fails because of it), At best, he develops into an NFL caliber QB.

I could see him on kick coverage teams for a few years, minimum.

The reason why he won't fall out of the third round is because, as a prospect, he has great measurables. Anyone with the size speed combo of a Tebow will surely get drafted in that range.

Tim Tebow, as a prospect, is a top 100 prospect with or without his "quarterback" ability. (I hate the zone-option garbage with a passion, both the spread/pass version and the run version. I refuse to call that position "quarterback" because they almost always lack the ability to do it in a pro-setting.)

The difference between a Tebow and a McCoy is that if McCoy busts, he's just another 6'2" 215 lb stick with minimal potential to play another position. If Tebow can't play QB, he has the build and overall athleticism to play Mike, Will, receivers: R, H, Z. Can he do any of it? I don't know, but the potential could be there given his build, work ethic, and intangibles. As I said, he's a project at other positions at worst.

+ Strong arm
+ Excellent Bulk/musculature
++ Excellent Athleticism
++ Leader
++ hard worker
+ Powerful runner

- Slow developer (is that an Urban Meyer trade mark...)
-- Gimmick Offense that has tons of flaws like locking onto receivers, poor throwing mechanics, happy feet, etc.
- 3 career snaps under center.
-- Zero stick route throws
- Awful pocket presence
- Has he ever watched film of himself holding the ball at his waist? Also, it causes a long delivery.

Etc.

Mr.KnowItAll
12-23-2009, 11:05 PM
This is already making the rounds. This article probably states best reasons of why he should go. He will charm the pants of the coaches in practice even with that Byron Leftwich wind up.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Tavern-talk-An-appeal-to-Tim-Tebow.html

LonghornsLegend
12-24-2009, 12:06 AM
It'll drop his stock IMO. The only way it works out for him IMO is if he is dead set on being an NFL quarterback. But if he's open to being a fullback, he needs to go, since apparently they wanted him to play there some.

I'm sorry, but I get a good laugh out of anyone saying this hurts his stock. That's just like saying not throwing at the combine hurts a QB stock. That stuff never hurts your stock, at worst you don't get a chance to improve it but it hardly makes you drop anyway. He's only going to look awkward under center and make bad throws, that's normal, but it's in his best interest to mask those traits as long as possible.

Cicero
12-24-2009, 01:48 AM
He's going to see an Andre Woodson like drop if he goes to the Senior Bowl, so this isn't surprising to hear.

Iamcanadian
12-24-2009, 01:56 AM
He's far better off waiting and getting in pro reps with some QB guru who his agent will lock him up with.
The scouts and GM's certainly would like to see him participate but they won't downgrade him for waiting till he's ready. IMO, he would be foolish to participate before he is ready.

ElectricEye
12-24-2009, 02:34 AM
So why would that make him a dumbass? Seems like a smart move on his part.

So it doesn't show a lack of competitiveness? You were on Locker for that, but this is a DIRECT shy away from competition by Tebow. Bit of a contradictory position there.

RealityCheck
12-25-2009, 01:48 PM
Or he actually means that NFL is not his destination.
UFL is his future maybe??

619
12-25-2009, 02:52 PM
UFL is his future maybe??

Umm .. what?

Vox Populi
12-25-2009, 03:40 PM
So it doesn't show a lack of competitiveness? You were on Locker for that, but this is a DIRECT shy away from competition by Tebow. Bit of a contradictory position there.

Pretty sure thats the least of anyone's concerns regarding Tebow...

RealityCheck
12-25-2009, 03:52 PM
Umm .. what?
Yeah, I said that.

StorminNorman
12-25-2009, 03:52 PM
No guys, we should ignore four years of his play on the field and simply assume that a quote from him saying there is a chance he won't play in an All Star games displays a lack of competitiveness.

PossibleCabbage
12-25-2009, 08:47 PM
No guys, we should ignore four years of his play on the field and simply assume that a quote from him saying there is a chance he won't play in an All Star games displays a lack of competitiveness.

Really though, any time someone is interviewing for a job and passes on part of the interview process, you have to wonder what's going on there. A lot of prospects pass on the senior bowl, but a lot of them do it because they're not seniors, and some of them do it because they're already essentially a guaranteed high pick and they have nothing to prove/don't want to risk the chance of injury. Tebow, however, doesn't have either of those outs. There are serious questions about him that are not answered by his college resume (how will he do as a pro style QB? Can he play another position?) that he should be doing everything possible in the pre-draft process to answer. The fact that he's just declining to demonstrate things that NFL talent evaluators would like to see and simply do not have game tape on (e.g. how do you execute a 7 step drop from under center in a game situation?) certainly can't reflect well on Tebow as a prospect, since if he was really both tremendous and confident he would go out there and answer his doubters (especially since he stands to make millions of dollars more if he does so.)

Any time a guy with question marks refuses a good opportunity to address them, you have to wonder if the guy doesn't want to because he doesn't have confidence in his ability to address these questions satisfactorily, or he has an opinion of himself that is not shared by scouts, or he simply knows that he will not look good in these situations and therefore avoids them. Any one of these three posibilities is not something you look for in a high draft pick.

StorminNorman
12-25-2009, 08:58 PM
Really though, any time someone is interviewing for a job and passes on part of the interview process, you have to wonder what's going on there.

Less so when you are interviewing a candidate with the same resume as Tebow, though.

A lot of prospects pass on the senior bowl, but a lot of them do it because they're not seniors, and some of them do it because they're already essentially a guaranteed high pick and they have nothing to prove/don't want to risk the chance of injury. Tebow, however, doesn't have either of those outs. There are serious questions about him that are not answered by his college resume (how will he do as a pro style QB? Can he play another position?) that he should be doing everything possible in the pre-draft process to answer. The fact that he's just declining to demonstrate things that NFL talent evaluators would like to see and simply do not have game tape on (e.g. how do you execute a 7 step drop from under center in a game situation?) certainly can't reflect well on Tebow as a prospect, since if he was really both tremendous and confident he would go out there and answer his doubters (especially since he stands to make millions of dollars more if he does so.)

Any time a guy with question marks refuses a good opportunity to address them, you have to wonder if the guy doesn't want to because he doesn't have confidence in his ability to address these questions satisfactorily, or he has an opinion of himself that is not shared by scouts, or he simply knows that he will not look good in these situations and therefore avoids them. Any one of these three posibilities is not something you look for in a high draft pick.

Again, I think the fact we are even discussing this when he hasn't declined the invitation is a bit much. All he has said is that he hasn't thought that much about it. Does it surprise ANYONE here that Tebow is thinking more about his next game than the NFL Draft process?

Would it help him be drafted higher if he attended the Senior Bowl? Yes. I think few would argue with that notion.

PossibleCabbage
12-25-2009, 09:13 PM
Less so when you are interviewing a candidate with the same resume as Tebow, though.

I think that where I disagree with you is that I feel that from the perspective of professional football talent evaluators, Tebow's resume isn't very good. He's a great leader, competitor, he's strong and tough and he has great intangibles, but he's not an accurate passer, he played in a gimmick offense, his mechanics are terrible, and you can count the number of snaps he's taken under center on one hand. For any player without the name recognition of Tebow, or the two BCS championships teams he was on won, we'd be talking about him as a WR or an H-Back or something. The fact that we're considering Tebow as an NFL QB at all (or as anything other than a pure project), is evidence of his considerable cachet.

Iamcanadian
12-26-2009, 09:30 AM
Really though, any time someone is interviewing for a job and passes on part of the interview process, you have to wonder what's going on there. A lot of prospects pass on the senior bowl, but a lot of them do it because they're not seniors, and some of them do it because they're already essentially a guaranteed high pick and they have nothing to prove/don't want to risk the chance of injury. Tebow, however, doesn't have either of those outs. There are serious questions about him that are not answered by his college resume (how will he do as a pro style QB? Can he play another position?) that he should be doing everything possible in the pre-draft process to answer. The fact that he's just declining to demonstrate things that NFL talent evaluators would like to see and simply do not have game tape on (e.g. how do you execute a 7 step drop from under center in a game situation?) certainly can't reflect well on Tebow as a prospect, since if he was really both tremendous and confident he would go out there and answer his doubters (especially since he stands to make millions of dollars more if he does so.)

Any time a guy with question marks refuses a good opportunity to address them, you have to wonder if the guy doesn't want to because he doesn't have confidence in his ability to address these questions satisfactorily, or he has an opinion of himself that is not shared by scouts, or he simply knows that he will not look good in these situations and therefore avoids them. Any one of these three posibilities is not something you look for in a high draft pick.

He said he would do what his agent advises him to do, I think they know more about what is best for their clients and Tebow pays him to make those decisions. If I was applying for a very high paid job in my profession, I'd hire a respected consultant to advise me on the best way to proceed. I think it shows maturity and he won't lose even a half point if he follows his agents advise.
Now if he flops at his workout, then he's dead in the water but since he has to workout one way or another, the pros are prepared to let him decide when. Remember, it is the Senior Bowl practices where the scouts and GM's make their assessments not the game itself so skipping the game has zero impact.

LizardState
12-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Maybe he won't be sure if he wants to play H-back if some NFL team drafts him to do that too. He's missing his chance to be the Next Media Darling QB at the Draft like Sanchez was this yr. but I guess he's been there, done that.

The Senior Bowl is all about networking, meets & greets & pressing the flesh with NFL HCs & assts, major social event on the path to the NFL Draft. You don't diss the powers that be or bite the hands that are going to make you very rich after next April.

And he wonders why he has this prima donna image.... :rolleyes:

Babylon
12-26-2009, 12:22 PM
The thing i dont like about this is it smells of agent involvement. Obviously he's not a guaranteed top 15 pick who has nothing to gain and might risk injury. If on the other hand he's hearing they are going to work him out at FB/HB/TE then i might see him being annoyed.

Sort of liken it to the Toby Gerhart situation, i think Toby is going to have a short fuse when it comes to people trying to make him a FB. In Gerhart's case he has the option of baseball.

RealityCheck
12-26-2009, 12:22 PM
I predict that somebody will pull a Matt Jones on Tebow (Take him with a really high pick, say, 7-12 overall, and convert him to WR and make him an instant bust). I'd bet on Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco or Houston.

Babylon
12-26-2009, 12:27 PM
I predict that somebody will pull a Matt Jones on Tebow (Take him with a really high pick, say, 7-12 overall, and convert him to WR and make him an instant bust). I'd bet on Seattle, Oakland, San Francisco or Houston.


Except that Matt Jones ran like a 4.38 at the combine and Tebow runs about a mid 4.6

Iamcanadian
12-26-2009, 02:16 PM
Maybe he won't be sure if he wants to play H-back if some NFL team drafts him to do that too. He's missing his chance to be the Next Media Darling QB at the Draft like Sanchez was this yr. but I guess he's been there, done that.

The Senior Bowl is all about networking, meets & greets & pressing the flesh with NFL HCs & assts, major social event on the path to the NFL Draft. You don't diss the powers that be or bite the hands that are going to make you very rich after next April.

And he wonders why he has this prima donna image.... :rolleyes:

It is pretty rare for a top 10 type prospect to attend the Senior Bowl so I guess their agents don't think dissing the powers to be is such a big deal.

StorminNorman
12-26-2009, 03:07 PM
Maybe he won't be sure if he wants to play H-back if some NFL team drafts him to do that too. He's missing his chance to be the Next Media Darling QB at the Draft like Sanchez was this yr. but I guess he's been there, done that.

The Senior Bowl is all about networking, meets & greets & pressing the flesh with NFL HCs & assts, major social event on the path to the NFL Draft. You don't diss the powers that be or bite the hands that are going to make you very rich after next April.

And he wonders why he has this prima donna image.... :rolleyes:

Anyone who considers Tebow a prima donna likely doesn't have a valid opinion anyway.

Babylon
12-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Maybe he won't be sure if he wants to play H-back if some NFL team drafts him to do that too. He's missing his chance to be the Next Media Darling QB at the Draft like Sanchez was this yr. but I guess he's been there, done that.

The Senior Bowl is all about networking, meets & greets & pressing the flesh with NFL HCs & assts, major social event on the path to the NFL Draft. You don't diss the powers that be or bite the hands that are going to make you very rich after next April.

And he wonders why he has this prima donna image.... :rolleyes:

I think that it is the media's fault. I wouldnt lay that on Tebow.

underscore
12-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Pretty sure thats the least of anyone's concerns regarding Tebow...

He's overly competitive and overly emotional, if anything. And that will hurt his stock. What GM wants a player that cries about everything?

dex
12-27-2009, 06:59 PM
Taking snaps under center is not a problem for Tebow. He has doen that aplenty in practice and in games. They started to run more i-formation in the redzone this season.

Especially after the LSU game when Brantley took all the snaps during that week because they thought he was going to play. With Brantley they added alot of I-formation and under center formations for him.

descendency
12-28-2009, 01:03 AM
Taking snaps under center is not a problem for Tebow. He has doen that aplenty in practice and in games. They started to run more i-formation in the redzone this season.

Especially after the LSU game when Brantley took all the snaps during that week because they thought he was going to play. With Brantley they added alot of I-formation and under center formations for him.

Tebow has 3 career snaps from center according to the announcers of once game. Maybe those were passes from under center. However, I have yet to see him throw a single pass under center. It's a lot different to throw from a 3 and 5 step drop versus a 3 step from a shotgun formation. Different angles, different motion. Side arm deliveries suffer under center (see Joey Harrington who had an awkward low delivery).

FUNBUNCHER
12-28-2009, 03:27 AM
I think that where I disagree with you is that I feel that from the perspective of professional football talent evaluators, Tebow's resume isn't very good. He's a great leader, competitor, he's strong and tough and he has great intangibles, but he's not an accurate passer, he played in a gimmick offense, his mechanics are terrible, and you can count the number of snaps he's taken under center on one hand. For any player without the name recognition of Tebow, or the two BCS championships teams he was on won, we'd be talking about him as a WR or an H-Back or something. The fact that we're considering Tebow as an NFL QB at all (or as anything other than a pure project), is evidence of his considerable cachet.

Agree with the core of your argument, but I do have a pet peeve about 'Tebow's not an accurate passer'.

He's averaged nearly a 65% completion rate and 4 INTs a year for his career at Florida.

DO people mean that he's not particularly accurate making pro style passes, ( probably true)?
Or is it a broad criticism of his accuracy passing the ball in general?

Babylon
12-28-2009, 01:40 PM
Agree with the core of your argument, but I do have a pet peeve about 'Tebow's not an accurate passer'.

He's averaged nearly a 65% completion rate and 4 INTs a year for his career at Florida.

DO people mean that he's not particularly accurate making pro style passes, ( probably true)?
Or is it a broad criticism of his accuracy passing the ball in general?

Bubble screens and shovel passes will give you a nice throwing % so for that reason i try to keep that in perspective. The problem i have is his lack of accuracy on deep balls and his general reluctance to go deep enough.

nepg
12-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Guys, it doesn't say he's not going to play in it. Or even that he doesn't want to.



Non-story here.
I don't think anyone else even read the articlue, dude.

This thread is hilarious.

yourfavestoner
12-28-2009, 02:25 PM
I don't think anyone else even read the articlue, dude.

This thread is hilarious.

It's SWDC. You expect people to read here? Come on.

RealityCheck
12-28-2009, 02:44 PM
Tebow's only issue is the deep pass. Other than tha, he's fine. And that means he'll be nothing more than a short-yardage/wildcat QB.

touchdowntoby26
12-29-2009, 10:07 AM
I can't believe the double standard when it comes to Tebow and Vince Young, they are very similair in every aspect (yes that includes speed, Vince timed a 4.57 at his pro day) So if Young can be a top 5 pick, why can't Tebow????????????????????

Brent
12-29-2009, 10:16 AM
I can't believe the double standard when it comes to Tebow and Vince Young, they are very similair in every aspect (yes that includes speed, Vince timed a 4.57 at his pro day) So if Young can be a top 5 pick, why can't Tebow????????????????????
Tebow has a Leftwich-esque release speed

dabears10
12-29-2009, 10:29 AM
I can't believe the double standard when it comes to Tebow and Vince Young, they are very similair in every aspect (yes that includes speed, Vince timed a 4.57 at his pro day) So if Young can be a top 5 pick, why can't Tebow????????????????????

Tebow could be a QB, but his running style is very different. Tebow is a power runner and does not create with his feet outside the pocket the way Vince Young did. Also, Tebow has never had a performance like VY did in the Rose Bowl, well back to back Rose Bowls, versus Michigan and USC.

As has been said, Tebow has a very long release and his accuracy is lacking and like VY his system is very much a one read type system that makes transition difficult. As you have seen with VY it has taken a good three years to learn the position to a place where he can be average-above average.

I think Tebow can be a QB, I am unsure if he can be a quality starting QB.

PossibleCabbage
12-29-2009, 11:51 AM
Tebow could be a QB, but his running style is very different. Tebow is a power runner and does not create with his feet outside the pocket the way Vince Young did.

Another thing to worry about with Tebow, is that it took quite some time to convince Vince Young when and when not to tuck it and run (much less often than his instincts said), but it was of critical importance that he learn this as the more often the QB runs the more hits the QB takes, and the higher risk of injury, and as years and years of modern NFL football have demonstrated it's extremely difficult for a team to be able to survive an injury to their starting QB. I wouldn't necessarily say that Tebow won't pick this up faster than Young, but their running styles makes this problematic. Vince Young at least made guys miss, Tebow runs like a fullback and in the NFL he's going to take a lot of (unnecessary) hits if he pulls that sort of thing.

So, whoever picks up Tebow is either going to have to sit him, or use him situationally until they can drill "don't get killed out there kid" into him so that it becomes second nature.

RedVision
12-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Anybody think Cooper getting invited to the Sr.Bowl will have an impact on Tebow's decision?

Scott Wright
12-29-2009, 04:44 PM
Anybody think Cooper getting invited to the Sr.Bowl will have an impact on Tebow's decision?

I doubt it.

Tebow's decision will likely come down to what he is advised to do. He will obviously want to compete but everyone may tell him it's not in his best interest. Then he'll have to decide whether to take their advice or not. My guy tells me he won't be there.

RedVision
12-29-2009, 04:49 PM
I doubt it.

Tebow's decision will likely come down to what he is advised to do. He will obviously want to compete but everyone may tell him it's not in his best interest. Then he'll have to decide whether to take their advice or not. My guy tells me he won't be there.

You're kind of Mr.Senior Bowl (i say that in a good way) so do you personnally think he would be better off not going? Do you remember a prospect facing the same questions marks as Tebow who went and how it turned out? I myself think that it helped Pat White (not all that much, but still..) last year.

Scott Wright
12-29-2009, 04:52 PM
I think you can make a strong case for why Tim Tebow should and shouldn't play in the Senior Bowl. With that said, most feel Tebow's greatest strength is his intangibles and competitiveness. How can he look a GM in the eye and say he is so tough and competitive when he passed up a chance to work, get better and prove everyone wrong in Mobile? The only certainty is that playing in the Senior Bowl would undoubtedly be a high risk / high reward proposition for Tebow.

On one hand I really want to see Tebow down in Mobile operating in a pro style offense. On the other hand I kind of dread the absolute zoo this year's game will become if he is there.

Babylon
12-29-2009, 05:05 PM
Anybody think Cooper getting invited to the Sr.Bowl will have an impact on Tebow's decision?

Not sure who will be throwing the ball for the South (someone help me out there). Either way i think Cooper will probably have to wait for the combine to have someone with an arm throwing him the ball.

Scott Wright
12-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Not sure who will be throwing the ball for the South (someone help me out there). Either way i think Cooper will probably have to wait for the combine to have someone with an arm throwing him the ball.

That's a good question, so far the only Senior Bowl quarterback that has been announced is Oregon State's Sean Canfield. Who are the other five?

Assuming they all accept invites my guess is:

Tim Tebow, Florida
Colt McCoy, Texas
Tony Pike, Cincinnati
Jarrett Brown, West Virginia

That leaves one more.

Daryll Clark? Dan LeFevour? As a darkhorse keep an eye on local product Levi Brown.

Shane P. Hallam
12-29-2009, 05:12 PM
Not sure who will be throwing the ball for the South (someone help me out there). Either way i think Cooper will probably have to wait for the combine to have someone with an arm throwing him the ball.

I'd guess McCoy if he wants to play, maybe Levi Brown or Joe Webb.

RedVision
12-29-2009, 05:18 PM
How about Zac Robinson? He sure could use some pro coaching...

Shane P. Hallam
12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
How about Zac Robinson? He sure could use some pro coaching...

I'd really like to see Robinson there. Could be interesting to see him at the Senior Bowl. If Tebow and McCoy don't go, it is possible.

TT Gator
12-31-2009, 06:07 PM
Scouts will be upset because they wont see him run a traditional NFL offense. However this is probobally a good move for Tebow. A bad showing could really hurt his draft stock, somiliar to Graham Harrell though not that dramatic. Tebow has many flaws and the senior bowl could magnify them.

I'm with you on this...either way he goes there are positives and negatives. I personally think he should play. The scouts already know he's got bad mechanics and no experiance running a pro-style offence. It's not like they'll be shocked if he struggles under center. I think he needs to show teams that he can make progress in a short matter of time. He won't look great the first couple practices but if he continues to improve during the week and has a good showing passing the ball at the Senior Bowl it'd help his case alot. If he wants to play QB in the NFL he needs to show that he'll work his tail off to fix his mechanics and learn the pro-style offence. From all accounts he's as hard a worker as any college player and he's got a high football I.Q. so I think he would show a vast improvment from the first practice to the game. Not to mention the Coaches will fall in love with him cuz he's such a nice charismatic guy(which then they'd praise him to other teams/coaches). Though if i'm wrong and he struggles more than I suspect it COULD affect his draft status. But at this point it's all but a fact that Jacksonville will draft him no matter what cuz if they don't they'll likely have to relocate cuz they can't put butts in the stands.

Babylon
12-31-2009, 06:32 PM
I'm with you on this...either way he goes there are positives and negatives. I personally think he should play. The scouts already know he's got bad mechanics and no experiance running a pro-style offence. It's not like they'll be shocked if he struggles under center. I think he needs to show teams that he can make progress in a short matter of time. He won't look great the first couple practices but if he continues to improve during the week and has a good showing passing the ball at the Senior Bowl it'd help his case alot. If he wants to play QB in the NFL he needs to show that he'll work his tail off to fix his mechanics and learn the pro-style offence. From all accounts he's as hard a worker as any college player and he's got a high football I.Q. so I think he would show a vast improvment from the first practice to the game. Not to mention the Coaches will fall in love with him cuz he's such a nice charismatic guy(which then they'd praise him to other teams/coaches). Though if i'm wrong and he struggles more than I suspect it COULD affect his draft status. But at this point it's all but a fact that Jacksonville will draft him no matter what cuz if they don't they'll likely have to relocate cuz they can't put butts in the stands.

If he's got a promise from the Jags i'd say dont bother with risking injury at the Senior Bowl.

descendency
01-01-2010, 12:24 AM
Tebow has a Leftwich-esque release speed

This is basically concern #2. Concern #1 is how other option QBs have contributed in the NFL. Alex Smith, Vince Young, etc. They take a long time to develop and if they do develop, they seem to be marginal at best.

Vince Young was heavily over-rated as a QB but somehow his team plays well when he's in.

Pro-style QBs just succeed more than non-pro style QBs. I can't even think of a good Option QB in the NFL right now.

edit: The development time is a major concern if I am drafting in the first two rounds. He's a late second rounder if you can afford a development project. A late 3rd rounder if you can't. No way he drops out of the 3rd round though.

Likely he ends up in round 1, even though I will disagree with it.

Day One Pick
01-02-2010, 08:37 AM
Like him, love him, hate him, reguardless, has there ever been a prospect who's NFL debut will be more highly anticipated?

RealityCheck
01-02-2010, 08:40 AM
The guy in your sig.

Day One Pick
01-02-2010, 08:43 AM
The guy in your sig.

Yeah, but in a different way. We all expect Suh to be great. With Tebow, who really knows. Who even knows what position he'll play. Easily the most unique prospect I've ever seen. I'm almost to the point where I have no opinion on him because I just don't have a clue what to expect from him.

RealityCheck
01-02-2010, 08:44 AM
Well, it all depends if he'll go to the SB or not. If he goes, he'll go 5th round. If he doesn't, he'll be a Top 15 pick.

Day One Pick
01-02-2010, 08:49 AM
Well, it all depends if he'll go to the SB or not. If he goes, he'll go 5th round. If he doesn't, he'll be a Top 15 pick.

But I'm not even talking in terms of draft status. I'm talking about Tim Tebow in an NFL uniform, on an NFL field, in an NFL game. What will we see? That's what I mean by his debut being highly anticipated.

RealityCheck
01-02-2010, 08:55 AM
We'll see an wildcat/trick play specialist, and a backup for a veteran QB/future starter.

boknows34
01-02-2010, 09:13 AM
If the Jags pass on Tebow in Rd 1 I believe he will get snapped up by the Patriots with one of their THREE picks in RD 2. One of those picks ironically enough is from the Jags. Belichick is also on record as being a fan of Tebow. You just know that Belichick would find ways of using him all over the field on that Pats offense - RB, FB, TE, wildcat QB. Also no pressure on Tebow as a QB early on as Brady (who will be 33 on opening day 2010) still has another five or so years left in him at the highest level.

Tebow playing for the Patriots though would have ESPN literally explode with all the excitement.

herniateddisc
01-02-2010, 09:23 AM
Like him, love him, hate him, reguardless, has there ever been a prospect who's NFL debut will be more highly anticipated?

I am sure the entire evangelical community will be waiting with baited breadth.

But for me, I am more excited to see what a real QB like Clausen might do.

Halfbacks are not terribly interesting.

stephenson86
01-02-2010, 09:25 AM
tbh what other position bar QB is he going to play, can he catch to play TE can he block to be a FB what else is he bar a QB ive seen nothing from him to say he could be anything but a QB and a massive project QB at that. I wouldnt pull the trigger on him till at least the third round.

Seanhawk
01-02-2010, 09:27 AM
After seeing the Sugar Bowl last night and seeing that Fox had a "Tim Tebow Cam", much like they had a "Brett Favre Cam" during the Vikings-Packers game earlier in the year, I can't think of a player whose NFL debut I'll ever anticipate less.

EvilNixon
01-02-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm rooting for him .We could use hard working guys like him in Oakland.

RealityCheck
01-02-2010, 09:29 AM
If the Jags pass on Tebow in Rd 1 I believe he will get snapped up by the Patriots with one of their THREE picks in RD 2. One of those picks ironically enough is from the Jags. Belichick is also on record as being a fan of Tebow. You just know that Belichick would find ways of using him all over the field on that Pats offense - RB, FB, TE, wildcat QB. Also no pressure on Tebow as a QB early on as Brady (who will be 33 on opening day 2010) still has another five or so years left in him at the highest level.

Tebow playing for the Patriots though would have ESPN literally explode with all the excitement.
You said it. I'd personally love Tebow.

wicket
01-02-2010, 09:34 AM
Like him, love him, hate him, reguardless, has there ever been a prospect who's NFL debut will be more highly anticipated?

Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Calvin Johnson are a few or the names that come to mind imo.

Sniper
01-02-2010, 09:38 AM
Tebow will be awesome.

AntoinCD
01-02-2010, 09:44 AM
Tebow's debut in the NFL will obviously be huge. Personally I absolutely love Tebow, just not as a prototypical passing QB. With his work ethic and determination he will be extremely coachable and improve as a passer. However his worth as a ball carrier, particularly in short yardage situations is almost immeasurable considering he can throw it as well.

As for the possiblity of the Patriots taking him if he fell to the second im all for it. I think three times this year Laurence Maroney has fumbled the ball on the goal line, potentially the biggest factor to the loss against the Colts, and Belichick loves to mix it up in short yardage situations. Tebow could be the upback, the running back in shotgun situations etc. If any team could get the most out of Tebow early while developing his game it's the Patriots. I also wouldnt be surprised if he was to run the option with Wes Welker either.

I think this is all irrelevant though because I firmly believe he will go in the top 20 picks, rightly or wrongly.

Splat
01-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Highest selling rookie jersey book it.

ViperVisor
01-02-2010, 10:26 AM
Like LeBron is one guy in sports I can put on this level of fame and intrigue.

the_legend_killer
01-02-2010, 10:33 AM
I'm a Vikings fan, and I'd love for them to draft Tebow and let him sit a few years. (I know this isn't a common feeling among Vikings fans)

Babylon
01-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Let me start by saying 4 years ago we all anticipated what Vince Young was going to bring to the league and a lot of it wasnt anticipated in a good way.

I love how all the experts like Jimmy Johnson and Brian Billick have problems with the guy to the point they hint he isnt an NFL QB. Hey guys have you seen some of the trash that gets run out there every weekend disguised as NFL QBs?

Tebow obviously went out on a high note. Any casual observer that didnt watch a game all year and tuned into the Sugar Bowl would ask are these people on drugs to question whether he is an NFL QB. I think the low release can be corrected, he isnt the 1st QB to come out of college with a low release point. Brian Billick did make one good point and that was he doesnt need to convince the whole NFL of anything only one team, that i believe he will.

brat316
01-02-2010, 12:41 PM
He needs serious work on his mechanics though. And why invest a first round pick into a project player. I think if he improves his throwing tech by the senior bowl, just a little. He'll probably play in it. If not he is not going to play.

And come on the low release, the wind up throw, dropping his arm down, footwork as well, these are things you wouldn't wont in your first round qb.


Then again the Jag might still draft him they took a qb in the first round to play wr.

tjsunstein
01-02-2010, 12:54 PM
Mechanics are overrated. If he is able to get the ball from one point to another, why tinker with what works? You see distinct deliveries from various quarterbacks that work for them. I mean I can see the theory in trying to correct what is thought to be wrong or odd for an NFL QB but I don't think it's worth the trouble and growing pains. If it's worked for someone this long, why "fix" what isn't broken?

That said, I'm all for Tebow having success in the NFL. I think people are so much against it because we haven't seen a player like him before. He isn't the ideal NFL QB but I'm convinced he can win games at the next level.

Sloopy
01-02-2010, 01:00 PM
IMO Tebow will never play in the NFL at the QB position. There are just too many issues to address: his ability to read and react from under center, his drop back which would add to an already problem riddled passing motion, not to mention learning a pro system in which he would need to throw more than run. I will also add that IMO (no offense to anyone here) lefty QB's are just to much of an issue, you spend draft picks and have all your protection schemes geared to protecting the left side and now all the sudden you need to protect the right side and you cant just flip your entire offensive line around and ask them to flip everything they have been doing around.

Taking on Tebow as a QB is essentially setting your entire organization back about 4 years for someone who may not even be a top QB in the league after all of that. IMO, not worth it.

at best I would take Tebow as a TE prospect in the late 3rd round

Sloopy
01-02-2010, 01:02 PM
Mechanics are overrated. If he is able to get the ball from one point to another, why tinker with what works? You see distinct deliveries from various quarterbacks that work for them. I mean I can see the theory in trying to correct what is thought to be wrong or odd for an NFL QB but I don't think it's worth the trouble and growing pains. If it's worked for someone this long, why "fix" what isn't broken?

It IS broken, he takes way to long to deliver the throw and essentially telegraphs his passes in doing so even if he looks off the receiver. If you dont fix his mechanics he is going to be sacked and picked to death.

prock
01-02-2010, 01:08 PM
I'm a Vikings fan, and I'd love for them to draft Tebow and let him sit a few years. (I know this isn't a common feeling among Vikings fans)

shoot me in the face

prock
01-02-2010, 01:12 PM
i would draft tim tebow in the 6th round as team chaplain.

RealityCheck
01-02-2010, 01:19 PM
at best I would take Tebow as a TE prospect in the late 3rd round

Has Tebow ever blocked for a run? Has Tebow ever caught a pass? No. So he's not a TE. He's a Michael Vick/Pat White style QB.

prock
01-02-2010, 01:20 PM
Has Tebow ever blocked for a run? Has Tebow ever caught a pass? No. So he's not a TE. He's a Michael Vick/Pat White style QB.

so hes a bad one?

Babylon
01-02-2010, 01:30 PM
Mechanics are overrated. If he is able to get the ball from one point to another, why tinker with what works? You see distinct deliveries from various quarterbacks that work for them. I mean I can see the theory in trying to correct what is thought to be wrong or odd for an NFL QB but I don't think it's worth the trouble and growing pains. If it's worked for someone this long, why "fix" what isn't broken?

That said, I'm all for Tebow having success in the NFL. I think people are so much against it because we haven't seen a player like him before. He isn't the ideal NFL QB but I'm convinced he can win games at the next level.

Again i bring up Vince Young, sidearm/pushes the ball, can't read defenses, will get killed running the ball yada yada yada.

He needs to get rid of the ball a little quicker, i think that can be worked on. Hey just tell him not to bring the ball down too low, it isnt rocket science. The biggest problem is probably the offense they run there. I would say seeing the performance last night against an undefeated team makes it hard for anyone to argue against this guy.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-02-2010, 04:11 PM
Watching the game last night the throws he was making were not particularly impressive. He is good at hitting open receivers is a lot of what i have seen. The 80 yard td to hernandez(i think) was off bad coverage.

KCJ58
01-02-2010, 04:30 PM
Watching the game last night the throws he was making were not particularly impressive. He is good at hitting open receivers is a lot of what i have seen. The 80 yard td to hernandez(i think) was off bad coverage.

Riley Cooper dog

Babylon
01-02-2010, 04:35 PM
Riley Cooper dog

Good call and some people would miss that throw believe it or not. Enough to fault with Tebow, (underthrew one to Cooper also) but why pick on him when he does things right?

jimbo
01-02-2010, 04:40 PM
Has Tebow ever blocked for a run? Has Tebow ever caught a pass? No. So he's not a TE. He's a Michael Vick/Pat White style QB.

As prospects, Vick and Tebow are nothing alike.

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2010, 04:53 PM
If Rich Gannon, David Gerrard, and Steve McNair could handle the transition to the NFL, so can Tebow.

Yeah he's a project. So what? If any team drafts Tebow with the expectation he will start as a rookie or even in two years, they will be in for a rude awakening, IMHO.

It's just that Tebow has so many tools to work with, including his stellar intangibles and psych makeup, why wouldn't a team spend a 1st or 2nd rounder on him?

The more I think about it, the more I see Tebow being a Belichick type pick. The Pats could sit him forever with no pressure to start him early and tear Tebow down to his fundamentals and rebuild him as an NFL QB.

I could see the situation in NE eventually turning into a Joe Montana/Steve Young type scenario, where in 4 years there will be intense pressure inside and outside of the organization to make a decision on the future of the Pats at QB.

I just think people are wrong to assume Tebow can't develop into a serviceable NFL QB in 3-4 years.

Tebow doesn't look that patient or too comfortable throwing from the pocket, but he's a special player rolling out from the pocket.

I doubt Tebow will ever learn to see the field like Peyton Manning, but I'm confident he can go through 3 reads and a dumpoff before deciding to run or get rid of the ball.

Going to the Vikes might destroy Tebow because he may be forced into early duty sometime during his rookie year.

Also, it's clear to me that Tebow will have similar success running the football in the pros that he had at UF. Not with the same frequency, but I still can see Tebow amassing around 500 yards rushing/year. He knows how to protect himself, ( you think every defender who played the Gators wasn't trying to decapitate Tebow for daring to run past the LOS??) and take a hit.

We aren't talking about Kurt Warner scrambling for a first down.

Picking Tim Tebow is like drafting a QB on the layaway plan; invest a little now for a big payoff down the road.

I would not be surprised at all to see Tebow go in the first round.

Sloopy
01-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Has Tebow ever blocked for a run? Has Tebow ever caught a pass? No. So he's not a TE. He's a Michael Vick/Pat White style QB.

First let me say that you've insulted Vick by comparing Pat White and Tebow to him. Every time a dual threat QB comes along there are comparisons to Vick or Young but the thing most people making these comparisons forget is this: Michael Vick and Vince Young are legitimate QB's in the throwing game (maybe not great in the passing game pat passable)

Second you cannot say that because he's never done something means that he cant. I don't think anyones arguing Tebow as a physical specimen or as an athlete. He definitely will be able to make an NFL roster, but as what remains to be seen

jballa838
01-02-2010, 05:02 PM
If Rich Gannon, David Gerrard, and Steve McNair could handle the transition to the NFL, so can Tebow.

Yeah he's a project. So what? If any team drafts Tebow with the expectation he will start as a rookie or even in two years, they will be in for a rude awakening, IMHO.

It's just that Tebow has so many tools to work with, including his stellar intangibles and psych makeup, why wouldn't a team spend a 1st or 2nd rounder on him?

The more I think about it, the more I see Tebow being a Belichick type pick. The Pats could sit him forever with no pressure to start him early and tear Tebow down to his fundamentals and rebuild him as an NFL QB.

I could see the situation in NE eventually turning into a Joe Montana/Steve Young type scenario, where in 4 years there will be intense pressure inside and outside of the organization to make a decision on the future of the Pats at QB.

I just think people are wrong to assume Tebow can't develop into a serviceable NFL QB in 3-4 years.

Tebow doesn't look that patient or too comfortable throwing from the pocket, but he's a special player rolling out from the pocket.

I doubt Tebow will ever learn to see the field like Peyton Manning, but I'm confident he can go through 3 reads and a dumpoff before deciding to run or get rid of the ball.

Going to the Vikes might destroy Tebow because he may be forced into early duty sometime during his rookie year.

Also, it's clear to me that Tebow will have similar success running the football in the pros that he had at UF. Not with the same frequency, but I still can see Tebow amassing around 500 yards rushing/year. He knows how to protect himself, ( you think every defender who played the Gators wasn't trying to decapitate Tebow for daring to run past the LOS??) and take a hit.

Picking Tim Tebow is like drafting a QB on the layaway plan; invest a little now for a big payoff down the road.

I would not be surprised at all to see Tebow go in the first round.

We aren't talking about Kurt Warner scrambling for a first down.
First off you compared him to Air McNair? McNair was one of the strongest armed quarterbacks i've ever seen, and Tebow doesn't have near the same arm strength. David Garrard is a slow, immobile QB and Tebow is nothing like him. His running style doesn't translate well to the pros. See when he played against Eric Berry (good night Tebow) and the pro-style defense at Alabama. Both those games he didn't look effective running the ball at all, while against scrub teams he did fine. Tebow could be successful, but I'm not banking on it.

prock
01-02-2010, 05:03 PM
First off you compared him to Air McNair? McNair was one of the strongest armed quarterbacks i've ever seen, and Tebow doesn't have near the same arm strength. David Garrard is a slow, immobile QB and Tebow is nothing like him. His running style doesn't translate well to the pros. See when he played against Eric Berry (good night Tebow) and the pro-style defense at Alabama. Both those games he didn't look effective running the ball at all, while against scrub teams he did fine. Tebow could be successful, but I'm not banking on it.

Like I said, Tim Tebow in the 6th round as Team Chaplain. Write it down.

Sloopy
01-02-2010, 05:10 PM
If Rich Gannon, David Gerrard, and Steve McNair could handle the transition to the NFL, so can Tebow.

Yeah he's a project. So what? If any team drafts Tebow with the expectation he will start as a rookie or even in two years, they will be in for a rude awakening, IMHO.

It's just that Tebow has so many tools to work with, including his stellar intangibles and psych makeup, why wouldn't a team spend a 1st or 2nd rounder on him?

The more I think about it, the more I see Tebow being a Belichick type pick. The Pats could sit him forever with no pressure to start him early and tear Tebow down to his fundamentals and rebuild him as an NFL QB.

I could see the situation in NE eventually turning into a Joe Montana/Steve Young type scenario, where in 4 years there will be intense pressure inside and outside of the organization to make a decision on the future of the Pats at QB.

I just think people are wrong to assume Tebow can't develop into a serviceable NFL QB in 3-4 years.

Tebow doesn't look that patient or too comfortable throwing from the pocket, but he's a special player rolling out from the pocket.

I doubt Tebow will ever learn to see the field like Peyton Manning, but I'm confident he can go through 3 reads and a dumpoff before deciding to run or get rid of the ball.

Going to the Vikes might destroy Tebow because he may be forced into early duty sometime during his rookie year.

Also, it's clear to me that Tebow will have similar success running the football in the pros that he had at UF. Not with the same frequency, but I still can see Tebow amassing around 500 yards rushing/year. He knows how to protect himself, ( you think every defender who played the Gators wasn't trying to decapitate Tebow for daring to run past the LOS??) and take a hit.

Picking Tim Tebow is like drafting a QB on the layaway plan; invest a little now for a big payoff down the road.

I would not be surprised at all to see Tebow go in the first round.

We aren't talking about Kurt Warner scrambling for a first down.

Where to start?

First let me say again that these comparisons to other players in the league are irrelevant, these players projected to be much better QB's than Tebow.

Second your comments about his intangibles: intangibles are great... when accompanied by skill. as far a physically appealing... thats what al davis drafts with and gets guys like Jamarcus Russell.

Why wouldnt a team spend a 1st or 2nd on him? because he is a project and they could instead draft a possible starter who can play their postion

And I KNOW you did NOT just compare Tebow to Steve Young

as far as your theory of him running: i dont think he wouldnt be able to run IF he was a passer but your making a better argument for him as an H-back with this.

Tebow is in no way a layaway QB, nothing in this league is guaranteed even when you draft a player who DOES project to be a big time star.

Contrarian
01-02-2010, 05:10 PM
Tim Tebow will be drafted in both NFL and MLB drafts. The Angels and the Saints

thank you thank you I'll be here all night

FUNBUNCHER
01-02-2010, 05:33 PM
The draft is all about making comparisons among players, it's what allows GMs to project potential success in the NFL for pro prospects.

Gerrard and Gannon are/were mobile QBs drafted in the 4th round who basically sat for 3-4 years. Both were considered projects at QB who would need years of seasoning before they would be ready to lead an NFL offense. Maybe Gerrard and Gannon had a more conventional throwing motion, otherwise all three are very similar in build and playing style.

And no, I didn't compare Tebow to Young ( how could you even infer this!!??), what I was trying to show is that once a young QB is felt to have developed sufficiently or has more present and future potential than a vet incumbent QB, you have a home-brewed QB controversy.

Brady is not mobile and never will be, and as he gets older his lack of mobility may become even more glaring, assuming his Oline doesn't make significant improvements.

There used to be a time in the NFL when college QBs, unless they were high first round picks, were expected to carry the clipboard for a few years and learn the game from the sidelines, like Aaron Rodgers.

IMO, this approach still works, depending on the team and the prospect.

But hey, I'm not trying to convince anyone anything about Tebow.
Some just think he just doesn't have the stuff to be a successful NFL QB.

But I still believe given the right situation that Tebow can/will develop into a productive starting pro signal caller.

niel89
01-02-2010, 07:07 PM
I think that he can possibly become a solid pro QB if he has 3-4 years to develop. However do you honestly think he will get that time? If he goes to a team that needs a QB then I think he gets forced onto the field too early just because the fans want it. The only way he stays on the bench is if he goes to a team like the Colts, Saints, Patriots ect. and has to sit behind a very established good QB like Aaron Rodgers was forced to. If he goes to a team like the Jags and Garrard gets hurt or has a real bad stretch of games then the fans will demand that he gets in the game.

Babylon
01-02-2010, 08:11 PM
I've met people in life that i wouldnt bet against, Tim Tebow fits that category. If someone tries to convince me that there are 32 NFL QBs out there better than him i would say prepare to be proven wrong.

the_legend_killer
01-02-2010, 11:26 PM
shoot me in the face

You're just chock full of over-reactions this week aren't you?

Still fielding draft pick offers for Adrian Peterson?

SickwithIt1010
01-02-2010, 11:55 PM
Tim Tebow will be drafted in both NFL and MLB drafts. The Angels and the Saints

thank you thank you I'll be here all night

Tebow doesnt even play baseball, meat.

ChiFan24
01-03-2010, 12:20 AM
David Garrard is a slow, immobile QB and Tebow is nothing like him.

I think you're confusing Garrard and Leftwich...Garrard is one of the more mobile starting QBs in football.

brat316
01-03-2010, 12:23 AM
Has Tebow ever blocked for a run? Has Tebow ever caught a pass? No. So he's not a TE. He's a Michael Vick/Pat White style QB.

So your saying don't draft Cribbs, ARE, Matt Jones, Drew Bennett and a few other guys to play different positions.

Sloopy
01-03-2010, 12:37 AM
The draft is all about making comparisons among players, it's what allows GMs to project potential success in the NFL for pro prospects.

Gerrard and Gannon are/were mobile QBs drafted in the 4th round who basically sat for 3-4 years. Both were considered projects at QB who would need years of seasoning before they would be ready to lead an NFL offense. Maybe Gerrard and Gannon had a more conventional throwing motion, otherwise all three are very similar in build and playing style.

And no, I didn't compare Tebow to Young ( how could you even infer this!!??), what I was trying to show is that once a young QB is felt to have developed sufficiently or has more present and future potential than a vet incumbent QB, you have a home-brewed QB controversy.

Brady is not mobile and never will be, and as he gets older his lack of mobility may become even more glaring, assuming his Oline doesn't make significant improvements.

There used to be a time in the NFL when college QBs, unless they were high first round picks, were expected to carry the clipboard for a few years and learn the game from the sidelines, like Aaron Rodgers.

IMO, this approach still works, depending on the team and the prospect.

But hey, I'm not trying to convince anyone anything about Tebow.
Some just think he just doesn't have the stuff to be a successful NFL QB.

But I still believe given the right situation that Tebow can/will develop into a productive starting pro signal caller.

I'm not saying no way never ever could Tebow be an NFL QB. I'm saying the time needed would be a reason for him to not go in the first round (as you pointed out QB's in late rounds are expected to hold the clipboard). He MAY become a QB but it is in MY opinion that no team in their right mind would spend the time developing him with no guarantee (as there never is) that he will be a legitimate QB. IMO the time needed and all the effort it would take not only correcting things in his game but adjusting blocking schemes/drafting and training players to block for a left handed QB that wont be ready for years is not worth any pick in the draft unless its Mr. Irrelevant. I mean your taking years of set back within an organization when you could just draft a guy who can play the position right away in the first round and if you don't get a QB this year in the first get some guys to block for him and draft one sometime in the next 3-4 years (your guesstimate) it would take for Tebow to develop

brat316
01-03-2010, 01:01 AM
FunBuncher explain to me why you would draft a QB in the first round to sit for 3-4 years?

Now you bring up Aaron Rodgers, that was a completely different case. Favre didn't know how long he was going to play, that is the only reason Rodgers sat for so long. If the Packers knew this ahead of time wouldn't they rather have drafted OL, or DL maybe some other position. Where you expect your first round pick to come in a make some sort of contribution that year.

Now teams do draft second round qbs and sit them, but only if they are in a position where everything is fine and the qb is looking shaky. The Pat could be in this position, with their multiple second round picks, they address OL and then get some defensive youth.

In a age where your paying multi million dollars for a guy to just sit there on the sideline is a waste of an investment, first round guys. You can do it with lower round picks cause your not as worried or invested in him.

FUNBUNCHER
01-03-2010, 04:23 AM
I guess the game has changed in the way players are developed is all, and I'm looking at Tebow's situation from a 1980's vantage point, and not from a 21st century reality.

Everyone's right, unless Tebow goes to a team with an established pro bowl or quality starting QB, chances are he will be expected to get on the field sooner rather than later, although McNair was drafted 3rd overall and didn't become a fulltime starter until his fourth year.

And I know the Leinart situation wasn't the plan in the beginning by the Cards front office, having him sit for 4+ years behind Warner, but there's no doubt in my mind they have any plans to trade him and have Leinart penciled in as the heir apparent once Warner is done in a couple years - a very old school approach to the QB position.

Still, if a team strips down its playbook initially and limits Tebow's number of reads while he's given time to learn the pro game, I think it could happen for him.

Teams picking in the bottom third of the 1st round I could see making a move on Tebow. At that slot the cost isn't outrageous, compared to making him a top 10 pick.

I'm just super curious to see where he goes; if a team picks him with the expectation they will have him sufficiently up to speed in one TC and 4 preseason games, IMO it will be a catastrophic mistake for their organization and Tebow's future prospects.

kennyb
01-03-2010, 10:29 AM
I think he'll be terrible. Terrible mechanics, and telegraphs his passes. His running style won't work either.

Lots of QBs don't have those flaws and they still take years to develop and most don't do anything. So why would you draft this guy high at all?

Sit for 3-4 years...a rookie contract is 4 years. He'd be at the end of it and you wouldn't have much of an idea if he'd have a clue or not.

I think he'd make a better MLB than QB in the pros.

RaiderNation
01-03-2010, 10:46 AM
If Tebow is there in the 3rd or 4th Id take him as a QB

tjsunstein
01-03-2010, 11:16 AM
Like I said, Tim Tebow in the 6th round as Team Chaplain. Write it down.

Is this where we're suppose to laugh?

Tebow can succeed in Jacksonville, Carolina, and Minnesota. I can't see him going into Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo, or Seattle and turning any franchises around. Plus the weather at the places I listed would make for a painless transition.

brasho
01-03-2010, 12:01 PM
Is this where we're suppose to laugh?

Tebow can succeed in Jacksonville, Carolina, and Minnesota. I can't see him going into Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo, or Seattle and turning any franchises around. Plus the weather at the places I listed would make for a painless transition.

The WCO in Minnesota might be hard for a guy with the world's slowest most deliberate release (ok, maybe tied with Leftwich) also, just because he would play in a dome in home games, doesn't mean he would have to go outside twice a season in frigid Chicago and Green Bay at least once a season.

prock
01-03-2010, 12:09 PM
Is this where we're suppose to laugh?

Tebow can succeed in Jacksonville, Carolina, and Minnesota. I can't see him going into Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo, or Seattle and turning any franchises around. Plus the weather at the places I listed would make for a painless transition.

those are situations in which a quarterback could succeed, yes. those arent situations where tebow can succeed because he won't be a pro quarterback.

jimbo
01-03-2010, 12:22 PM
Is this where we're suppose to laugh?

Tebow can succeed in Jacksonville, Carolina, and Minnesota. I can't see him going into Oakland, Cleveland, Buffalo, or Seattle and turning any franchises around. Plus the weather at the places I listed would make for a painless transition.

Tebow won't succeed in any of those places because he'll be thrown into action right away. The possible exception is Minny if Old Man Favre sticks around.

This kid needs a whole lot of work and I wouldn't take him any higher than the 3rd round. He's too much of a project to be a first round pick, imo...some team will probably draft him there though.

stephenson86
01-03-2010, 12:23 PM
No denying Tebow is a monster athlete and he has gotten bye as a QB because he is mobile a hard worker etc but that release of his really worries me and if it isnt sorted out he will never succeed the way he could

Babylon
01-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Tebow won't succeed in any of those places because he'll be thrown into action right away. The possible exception is Minny if Old Man Favre sticks around.

This kid needs a whole lot of work and I wouldn't take him any higher than the 3rd round. He's too much of a project to be a first round pick, imo...some team will probably draft him there though.

I think his first year will look like his first year at UF. Bring him in to run some gimmick offense and have him throw/run/handoff out of it.

If a negative for a QB is that he needs a year or two to develope i think that is a weak way to look at a player, they all should take a year or two to develope. The 60 ints. or so between Sanchez/Stafford and Freeman attests to that.

jimbo
01-03-2010, 12:31 PM
I think his first year will look like his first year at UF. Bring him in to run some gimmick offense and have him throw/run/handoff out of it.

If a negative for a QB is that he needs a year or two to develope i think that is a weak way to look at a player, they all should take a year or two to develope. The 60 ints. or so between Sanchez/Stafford and Freeman attests to that.

Tebow's situation is nothing close to any of last year's first round QBs. Most first round QBs sit for a year to refine the great tools they already have and to learn an NFL playbook. Tebow needs to sit for a few years because he has atrocious footwork and mechanics. His only "great" tool that's not an intangible is his running ability -- which may not even translate well to the NFL game.

Babylon
01-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Tebow's situation is nothing close to any of last year's first round QBs. Most first round QBs sit for a year to refine the great tools they already have and to learn an NFL playbook. Tebow needs to sit for a few years because he has atrocious footwork and mechanics. His only "great" tool that's not an intangible is his running ability -- which may not even translate well to the NFL game.

So you're saying Stafford and co. should be starting this year?

jimbo
01-03-2010, 12:46 PM
So you're saying Stafford and co. should be starting this year?

Stafford - I said he should have sat until final six weeks or so. He's their franchise, and running him out there so early could be dangerous. He's taken his lumps, but he's shown he's a warrior and will be a great QB in this league.

Sanchez - I thought he should have started from Day One. Solid o-line in front of him, so you didn't really have to worry about him taking a lot of hits. He'd definitely benefit from a new OC.

Freeman - Thought he should have sat all year. He was a raw prospect, but nowhere near the type of "raw" prospect Tebow is. He had experience playing in a pro-style offense at KState, unlike Tebow. His arm-strength, mechanics, footwork were also all much better coming out than Tebow's.

Babylon
01-03-2010, 12:54 PM
Stafford - I said he should have sat until final six weeks or so. He's their franchise, and running him out there so early could be dangerous. He's taken his lumps, but he's shown he's a warrior and will be a great QB in this league.

Sanchez - I thought he should have started from Day One. Solid o-line in front of him, so you didn't really have to worry about him taking a lot of hits. He'd definitely benefit from a new OC.

Freeman - Thought he should have sat all year. He was a raw prospect, but nowhere near the type of "raw" prospect Tebow is. He had experience playing in a pro-style offense at KState, unlike Tebow. His arm-strength, mechanics, footwork were also all much better coming out than Tebow's.

Respect your opinion there but i would say 56 ints. and about 35 losses probably indicate those guys should be on the bench.

Probably getting off the subject. Tebow is certainly a project but i think some of the criticism out there has more to do with his personality than his actual play.

dabears10
01-03-2010, 01:39 PM
I think his first year will look like his first year at UF. Bring him in to run some gimmick offense and have him throw/run/handoff out of it.

Does the QB have other option besides throwing, running, or handing off?

stephenson86
01-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Does the QB have other option besides throwing, running, or handing off?

running out the back of the endzone

Babylon
01-03-2010, 01:48 PM
Does the QB have other option besides throwing, running, or handing off?

I guess i should have added "out of the wildcat formation".

stephenson86
01-03-2010, 01:50 PM
tebow to jordyzzz a man can dream cant he?

tjsunstein
01-03-2010, 02:34 PM
tebow to jordyzzz a man can dream cant he?

We already have Rodgers to Jordyzzz which is ten fold better.

Unbiased
01-03-2010, 02:41 PM
David Garrard is a slow, immobile QB and Tebow is nothing like him. .

Incorrect.

Mobility is one of Garrard's best attributes as a quarterback.

Babylon
01-03-2010, 02:56 PM
We already have Rodgers to Jordyzzz which is ten fold better.

There was Tebow to Cooperzzzz which to be honest looked better to me than Rodgers to Jordyzzz.

descendency
01-03-2010, 03:23 PM
If Tebow is available in the 5th round, I will personally beg the Patriots to draft him.

Seriously... 6'3" 240lbs, runs 4.6 maybe 4.5. Coachable. Hard working. Could be a starting OLB for the Patriots LOL.

murdamal86
01-03-2010, 03:25 PM
I have a question, what could shoot Tebow up the draft boards between now and the draft?

descendency
01-03-2010, 03:27 PM
I have a question, what could shoot Tebow up the draft boards between now and the draft?

Him showing upto a workout (combine, senior bowl, etc) with an NFL able throwing motion.

I'd take him in the first round if he could throw like an NFL QB.

His current throwing motion is an F-. It starts at his thigh and thus is about 2-2.5 times longer than a normal throwing motions. Couple this with average velocity on his throws and you have an NFL interception machine. If he could show either or both is no longer a concern, he would shoot up boards.

I'd put him in the top 10 if he could show those two. I know there are other major concerns (footwork, system, etc), but I'd risk it. I like him a lot.

I think his first year will look like his first year at UF. Bring him in to run some gimmick offense and have him throw/run/handoff out of it.
How is that different from his other 3 years? They run a gimmick offense in UF. It hurts future NFL talent and cost them millions.

Monomach
01-03-2010, 03:35 PM
I have a question, what could shoot Tebow up the draft boards between now and the draft?

Running a 4.3 and showing good hands.

descendency
01-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Running a 4.3 and showing good hands.

If he runs 4.3 at 240, Al Davis will take him with their first round pick. He won't even have to worry about his hands.

RealityCheck
01-03-2010, 03:40 PM
If he runs 4.3 at 240, Al Davis will take him with their first round pick. He won't even have to worry about his hands.
I see what you did there. :)

BamaFalcon59
01-03-2010, 03:50 PM
If Tebow is available in the 5th round, I will personally beg the Patriots to draft him.

Seriously... 6'3" 240lbs, runs 4.6 maybe 4.5. Coachable. Hard working. Could be a starting OLB for the Patriots LOL.

He doesn't run a 4.5. I doubt he runs a 4.6.

4.7 would be my guess.

descendency
01-04-2010, 09:30 AM
He doesn't run a 4.5. I doubt he runs a 4.6.

4.7 would be my guess.

I would say a good range for him is between high 4.5 and low 4.7.

When I say "4.5" I mean anything starting with 4.5 including 4.59. I don't mean he could run 4.49 on a fluke. I'd be more willing to say his target time is 4.60.

I still stand that he'll be faster than most of the inside linebacker prospects, have better size, and better football IQ. Obviously, there would be a learning curve, but I don't think Tebow has the bust factor that most QBs do, ie they have no second position.

Tebow (in my opinion) could range from QB to FB to LB, although I think the development period for him at LB is about the same as at QB if not more.

FUNBUNCHER
01-04-2010, 10:07 AM
How many offensive superstars have switched to the defensive side of the ball once they got to the NFL???

That's not happening.

Tebow makes it as a QB or travels the world on a Christian mission!

RealityCheck
01-04-2010, 10:46 AM
If Tebow is available in the 5th round, I will personally beg the Patriots to draft him.

Seriously... 6'3" 240lbs, runs 4.6 maybe 4.5. Coachable. Hard working. Could be a starting OLB for the Patriots LOL.
I really hope we take him with one of our 2nds. Maybe trade down to the third.

RedVision
01-04-2010, 10:59 AM
How many offensive superstars have switched to the defensive side of the ball once they got to the NFL???

That's not happening.

Tebow makes it as a QB or travels the world on a Christian mission!

Some Nebraska QBs did it. Scott Frost(6 seasons) and Jammal Lord(3 seasons) comes to mind. Doubt they are alone. Both of them where ok athletes and didn't have the pedigree of Tebow, nor his intangible, I'd take him as my ST captain any day. I honestly see him as a Pro bowl special teamer by his 2nd year if he get a position switch.

Babylon
01-04-2010, 11:14 AM
I have a question, what could shoot Tebow up the draft boards between now and the draft?

Probably the Vince Young factor. Some team falls in love with his intangibles and figure they can correct any mechanical flaws he may have.

My guess is one of these new coaches or GMs armed with a longterm contract are going to want to put a new face on a franchise and will pick Tebow. Besides it is a foregone conclusion he's going to the Shaguars right?

Addict
01-04-2010, 11:14 AM
How many offensive superstars have switched to the defensive side of the ball once they got to the NFL???

That's not happening.

Tebow makes it as a QB or travels the world on a Christian mission!

his mission would be easy though, how can one gaze upon the manly perfection that is Tim Tebow and not believe that there is a god?

dex
01-04-2010, 11:22 AM
I can't wait to see Tebow at the combine. He has benched over 450lbs before, it's going to be fun watching a QB out-benching some o-linemen or d-linemen.

I think you will year Tebow's name quite abit at the combine.

Addict
01-04-2010, 11:25 AM
I can't wait to see Tebow at the combine. He has benched over 450lbs before, it's going to be fun watching a QB out-benching some o-linemen or d-linemen.

I think you will year Tebow's name quite abit at the combine.

We'll hear his name quite a bit regardless of the combine.

Sloopy
01-04-2010, 11:27 AM
How many offensive superstars have switched to the defensive side of the ball once they got to the NFL???

That's not happening.

Tebow makes it as a QB or travels the world on a Christian mission!

ill just name a few side of ball switches that have worked out not just offense to defense... Mike Vrabel as a TE from LB (plays both), Troy Brown played a season at CB from WR, Randy Moss has played a DB role (I will point out that yes, all of these are with the patriots but they are what comes to mind)

no these weren't permanent switches but as far as the question, "can it be done?"... the answer is yes

Sloopy
01-04-2010, 11:29 AM
a side note... Moss was the third string QB for the pats (or at least he was last year) i.e. Moss has better mechanics than Tebow :P

Addict
01-04-2010, 11:31 AM
a side note... Moss was the third string QB for the pats (or at least he was last year) i.e. Moss has better mechanics than Tebow :P

that or Belichek is just trying to confuse opponents.

descendency
01-04-2010, 12:37 PM
Believe it or not, positional changes happen when you look at the skill set of the player that is coming out of a position to another position. While he hasn't demonstrated pass rush skills or coverage skills, he did have to do some defense reading and would have some knowledge of the QB position.

The experienced gained on the offensive side of the ball could help him on defense.

All I'm saying is that he has a lot of elite measurables that some people seem to ignore that he could fall back on given a failed attempt at being a QB. He could be a failure at those too, but unlike the 6'3" 215 lb guys coming out of college, he has the size to play another position.

brat316
01-04-2010, 02:43 PM
Believe it or not, positional changes happen when you look at the skill set of the player that is coming out of a position to another position. While he hasn't demonstrated pass rush skills or coverage skills, he did have to do some defense reading and would have some knowledge of the QB position.

The experienced gained on the offensive side of the ball could help him on defense.

All I'm saying is that he has a lot of elite measurables that some people seem to ignore that he could fall back on given a failed attempt at being a QB. He could be a failure at those too, but unlike the 6'3" 215 lb guys coming out of college, he has the size to play another position.


AHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAH....ohh you bring back good memories.

I wish Peppers would play LT cause he knows what the DE are going to be doing against him.

Babylon
01-04-2010, 02:58 PM
AHHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAH....ohh you bring back good memories.

I wish Peppers would play LT cause he knows what the DE are going to be doing against him.

To say nothing about the comment he might know something about the QB position. One of the greatest players ever in college football knowing something about the position, ya think so.

SnowPatrol
01-04-2010, 07:21 PM
Just curious, why wouldn't a zone option spread work in the NFL? I don't think it would happen, but lets say for argument's sake the Redskins lure away Urban Meyer and draft Tebow, now there is no learning curve, he can start right away, your running a system he knows like he back of his hand, it might be worth a shot. Am I crazy or would this be a slight possibility ?

murdamal86
01-04-2010, 07:27 PM
Just curious, why wouldn't a zone option spread work in the NFL? I don't think it would happen, but lets say for argument's sake the Redskins lure away Urban Meyer and draft Tebow, now there is no learning curve, he can start right away, your running a system he knows like he back of his hand, it might be worth a shot. Am I crazy or would this be a slight possibility ?

The Eagles aren't FIU on defense

PossibleCabbage
01-04-2010, 08:57 PM
Just curious, why wouldn't a zone option spread work in the NFL? I don't think it would happen, but lets say for argument's sake the Redskins lure away Urban Meyer and draft Tebow, now there is no learning curve, he can start right away, your running a system he knows like he back of his hand, it might be worth a shot. Am I crazy or would this be a slight possibility ?

It's not really a possibility, considering that unlike the pro-style offense, there will be NFL teams that you will really not be capable of beating with the spread option. Defending the option is all about maintaining your assignments, being about as equally athletic as the man you're covering, and winning individual battles. There are a lot of NFL LBs who are not only better athletes than Tebow, but would hit him hard enough and often enough that he wouldn't finish a lot of games. A lot of things are possible in college football at major programs (where you simply can recruit better athletes and more of them) that really aren't possible in the NFL.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Probably the Vince Young factor. Some team falls in love with his intangibles and figure they can correct any mechanical flaws he may have.

My guess is one of these new coaches or GMs armed with a longterm contract are going to want to put a new face on a franchise and will pick Tebow. Besides it is a foregone conclusion he's going to the Shaguars right?

IMO Tebow has much, much stronger intangibles than VY, but VY is obviously physically more impressive. Just a few things to say from me here.

On page 1, people were using the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing on his release. However, I think it's safe to say his release is broken. It's too long. It's one thing when you have an awkward release that gets the ball off quickly, such as Phillip Rivers. His release is unorthodox, but not broken. Jay Cutler's release is a bit similar to that. He kinda throws it like a baseball, but it's fast, it's accurate, and it comes out as a spiral. Tebow isn't the same.

Also, I'm very intrigued by Tebow as a prospect. I'm not 100% sure he'll be a QB, but I'm actually pretty confident he'll be successful at something(And I don't mean as a gimmick wildcat QB). He seems like the kind of guy who will work his ass off to become great at what he does. Whether that's TE, FB, special teams or even defense, I think he'll put the necessary work in to be good at it. He has great speed for anything other than RB, WR or DB, and he has good enough size to play TE/FB/DE/LB if he adds only a few pounds. I think he'll be a very successful pro, just probably not at QB.

stephenson86
01-05-2010, 09:30 AM
i think he will have a slow 40 i dont think his straight line speed is spectacular

RealityCheck
01-05-2010, 09:46 AM
My prediction is 4.51.

FUNBUNCHER
01-05-2010, 10:10 AM
Tebow will run between 4.65 and 4.75. He still has good quickness and elusiveness for a 240# scrambling QB.

IMO he's about a step below the current version of Donovan McNabb in terms of mobility, which is pretty darn good.

FuzzyGopher
01-05-2010, 10:19 AM
IMO Tebow has much, much stronger intangibles than VY, but VY is obviously physically more impressive. Just a few things to say from me here.

On page 1, people were using the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" thing on his release. However, I think it's safe to say his release is broken. It's too long. It's one thing when you have an awkward release that gets the ball off quickly, such as Phillip Rivers. His release is unorthodox, but not broken. Jay Cutler's release is a bit similar to that. He kinda throws it like a baseball, but it's fast, it's accurate, and it comes out as a spiral. Tebow isn't the same.

During the Sugar Bowl they actually did a slow motion replay of his release, and when he cocks his arm back the ball actually goes below his waist. His release seriously makes Byron Leftwich's look like Dan Marino's.
He really needs to tighten it up or defensive ends are going to be slapping the ball out of his hand like crazy.

Nalej
01-05-2010, 06:46 PM
482 pass yds 3 TDs, 1 Rush TD
533 total yards

Wow....

earnhardt3maniac.com
01-05-2010, 06:51 PM
If Tebow falls to Jacksonville, they will take him and he will, ala Pat Haden, Pat White and Mark Brunell, prove that he has what it takes to be an NFL quarterback. And if he becomes a Jaguar, the NFL won't have to worry about Jacksonville selling out their stadium for the next two years. And his marketability (Jerseys, t-shirts) will be off the charts.

Splat
01-09-2010, 10:49 AM
Tebow picks Sexton, will attend Senior Bowl (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/09/tebow-picks-sexton-will-attend-senior-bowl/)

DcmRulz
01-09-2010, 10:56 AM
ESPN Confirms Tebow is playing:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/news/story?id=4811117

Shane P. Hallam
01-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Great news. So pumped to see him (and the circus the Senior Bowl becomes this year!)

Babylon
01-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Great news. So pumped to see him (and the circus the Senior Bowl becomes this year!)

Why, is CBS carrying the game?

Shane P. Hallam
01-09-2010, 01:35 PM
The Senior Bowl was a circus when John Parker Wilson was there. Interviews and press and everyone loving him.

Imagine Tebow in SEC country. Going to be a lot more to come for practices and things. The whole week is going to be nuts.

D-Unit
01-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Love his competitive fire. I could easily see the headlines about him sky rocketing his stock as much as I could see it tank his stock.

Exciting situation to say the least.

Always thought some team would take him in the first though. Can't wait for Scott's section where he talks about which teams interview different players. Who will interview Tebow? OOohh.. AAahhh....

brasho
01-10-2010, 02:54 PM
That's a good question, so far the only Senior Bowl quarterback that has been announced is Oregon State's Sean Canfield. Who are the other five?

Assuming they all accept invites my guess is:

Tim Tebow, Florida
Colt McCoy, Texas
Tony Pike, Cincinnati
Jarrett Brown, West Virginia

That leaves one more.

Daryll Clark? Dan LeFevour? As a darkhorse keep an eye on local product Levi Brown.

I don't know about that list. It seems like every year the 3rd QB for each roster is some really small school guy.


I look forward to seeing Tebow there. I want to see him take the snap, make his drop and hit a spot. Maybe the tinkering with his release starts then. As the Senior Bowl really helped Chad Henne, Flacco, and Drew Stanton, it really hurt Troy Smith, Colt Brennan, and a few others that were never heard from again (Paul Smith I think was one).

St.Pack
01-14-2010, 12:43 PM
OK where to start...Tim Tebow (Mr."intangibles") ...is the most over hyped College Football Player of all time...a little over a decade ago Tommy Frazier of Nebraska had the same career...and he was a much more dynamic and explosive player then Tebow...but he didn't have the "intangibles" (we know what that means) that Tebow has...last year Pat White came out of West Virginia with a stellar career and similar stats and a better QB skill set then Tebow yet Scott Wright had the audacity to list him as a WR. Scott will say it was because of his lack of size plus he had the speed and athletic ability to play another position but he too didn't posess those "intangibles". This year Daryll Clark of Penn St has similar size and a better QB skill set then Tebow...yet Scott has Tebow listed #1 QB...when does the dream die for the uneducated fan who really thinks this guy has NFL QB ability? So he's a nice guy...so is the water boy on the team...but it doesn't make him an NFL QB...but his "intangibles" will get him drafted way ahead of where he should go (6th Rd HBack/TE) and cost some GM his job in a year or two after. I guess a team of players with only "intangibles" will a Super Bowl one day...dream on!!!

MizzouBig12
01-14-2010, 12:54 PM
OK where to start...Tim Tebow (Mr."intangibles") ...is the most over hyped College Football Player of all time...a little over a decade ago Tommy Frazier of Nebraska had the same career...and he was a much more dynamic and explosive player then Tebow...but he didn't have the "intangibles" (we know what that means) that Tebow has...last year Pat White came out of West Virginia with a stellar career and similar stats and a better QB skill set then Tebow yet Scott Wright had the audacity to list him as a WR. Scott will say it was because of his lack of size plus he had the speed and athletic ability to play another position but he too didn't posess those "intangibles". This year Daryll Clark of Penn St has similar size and a better QB skill set then Tebow...yet Scott has Tebow listed #1 QB...when does the dream die for the uneducated fan who really thinks this guy has NFL QB ability? So he's a nice guy...so is the water boy on the team...but it doesn't make him an NFL QB...but his "intangibles" will get him drafted way ahead of where he should go (6th Rd HBack/TE) and cost some GM his job in a year or two after. I guess a team of players with only "intangibles" will a Super Bowl one day...dream on!!!
So based on this assessment of Tebow, I would take it that you strongly objected to Vince Young being a high draft choice a couple of years ago as well?

brat316
01-14-2010, 01:26 PM
OK where to start...Tim Tebow (Mr."intangibles") ...is the most over hyped College Football Player of all time...a little over a decade ago Tommy Frazier of Nebraska had the same career...and he was a much more dynamic and explosive player then Tebow...but he didn't have the "intangibles" (we know what that means) that Tebow has...last year Pat White came out of West Virginia with a stellar career and similar stats and a better QB skill set then Tebow yet Scott Wright had the audacity to list him as a WR. Scott will say it was because of his lack of size plus he had the speed and athletic ability to play another position but he too didn't posess those "intangibles". This year Daryll Clark of Penn St has similar size and a better QB skill set then Tebow...yet Scott has Tebow listed #1 QB...when does the dream die for the uneducated fan who really thinks this guy has NFL QB ability? So he's a nice guy...so is the water boy on the team...but it doesn't make him an NFL QB...but his "intangibles" will get him drafted way ahead of where he should go (6th Rd HBack/TE) and cost some GM his job in a year or two after. I guess a team of players with only "intangibles" will a Super Bowl one day...dream on!!!

Are you suppose to be the opposite Steve?

Prowler
01-14-2010, 01:45 PM
OK where to start...Tim Tebow (Mr."intangibles") ...is the most over hyped College Football Player of all time...a little over a decade ago Tommy Frazier of Nebraska had the same career...and he was a much more dynamic and explosive player then Tebow...but he didn't have the "intangibles" (we know what that means) that Tebow has...last year Pat White came out of West Virginia with a stellar career and similar stats and a better QB skill set then Tebow yet Scott Wright had the audacity to list him as a WR. Scott will say it was because of his lack of size plus he had the speed and athletic ability to play another position but he too didn't posess those "intangibles". This year Daryll Clark of Penn St has similar size and a better QB skill set then Tebow...yet Scott has Tebow listed #1 QB...when does the dream die for the uneducated fan who really thinks this guy has NFL QB ability? So he's a nice guy...so is the water boy on the team...but it doesn't make him an NFL QB...but his "intangibles" will get him drafted way ahead of where he should go (6th Rd HBack/TE) and cost some GM his job in a year or two after. I guess a team of players with only "intangibles" will a Super Bowl one day...dream on!!!

Seriously? you said Scott had the audacity to list Pat White as a WR? we're talking about the same Pat White that currently has yet to complete an NFL pass right? the one that is 0-5 with a sack?

FUNBUNCHER
01-14-2010, 05:03 PM
Are you suppose to be the opposite Steve?

LOLOL!!

What out, a race war is about to jump off on SWDC!!!:eek:

MizzouBig12
01-14-2010, 05:04 PM
He is twice the player (and that's not saying much) that Pat White is, and what are you alluding to with the "intangibles" in quotations?

Perhaps our friend St. Pack doesn't think that there is anyplace in this league for "leadership", "toughness", "game smarts", "winner", and all of the other things that constitute "intangibles". Maybe he thinks that all players are simply "statistics" and "measurables", like on Madden or something.

KyleReese
01-14-2010, 05:13 PM
Perhaps our friend St. Pack doesn't think that there is anyplace in this league for "leadership", "toughness", "game smarts", "winner", and all of the other things that constitute "intangibles". Maybe he thinks that all players are simply "statistics" and "measurables", like on Madden or something.

I think what he is alluding to is that Tebow is being pumped up and "adored" by people because he is white. Yea that neverrrrr happends with black quarterbacks like Vince Young, JaMarcus Russell, and Michael Vick right? I used to puke every time Joe Theisman would kum in his pants every time Vick completed a 5 yard pass..lol like " Omg he is the greatest athete I have every seen, Omg I'm getting a chubby" Real dumb post St. Pack

brat316
01-14-2010, 05:27 PM
Perhaps our friend St. Pack doesn't think that there is anyplace in this league for "leadership", "toughness", "game smarts", "winner", and all of the other things that constitute "intangibles". Maybe he thinks that all players are simply "statistics" and "measurables", like on Madden or something.

well having that is great, but you still need the other side of the spectrum of mechanics, tools, other things.

Plenty of guys have what you just listed there, but in order to be successful you need both sides.

Also Tim Tebow would be an awesome ST player, those are great qualities to have in a ST guy.

nofalcons10
01-14-2010, 08:49 PM
philip rivers 2004.

he blew everyone away at the senior bowl.

tebow is a similar prospect with his delivery but i think that he has what it takes. hopefully he'll go to a team like minnesota so that he will have time to learn behind a very good QB.

St.Pack
01-15-2010, 03:12 AM
So based on this assessment of Tebow, I would take it that you strongly objected to Vince Young being a high draft choice a couple of years ago as well?

Yes I did! I felt Young was a good prospect at WR/TE his first two years at Texas. He didn't show any QB potential until the second half of his last year there...and the BCS performance put him in the over hyped not yet ready for the NFL limelight. But he is a unique athlete that has shown he could be a difference maker in the league when his head is right. Tebow is now where near the athlete he is and has a shuffle running style that will not break 4.6 in the forty.

St.Pack
01-15-2010, 03:34 AM
Seriously? you said Scott had the audacity to list Pat White as a WR? we're talking about the same Pat White that currently has yet to complete an NFL pass right? the one that is 0-5 with a sack?

I guess 5 attempts is a fair assessment of his abilities...at least to you it is. Let's see you judge Tebow the same way after his first 5 attempts. However, we know Tebow will get many more opportunities to throw the ball in his first series of downs then White got all year...yah that's fair!

St.Pack
01-15-2010, 04:11 AM
Perhaps our friend St. Pack doesn't think that there is anyplace in this league for "leadership", "toughness", "game smarts", "winner", and all of the other things that constitute "intangibles". Maybe he thinks that all players are simply "statistics" and "measurables", like on Madden or something.

There is a place in any sport for intangibles ...but when that's all you bring to the table and they are so overly stated as in Tebow's case they overshadow one's judgment when fairly assessing his true ability. Why was Tim Couch drafted 1st overall ahead of McNabb, Culpepper, King, Brooks and Smith...all who had far superior skills to Couch? But Couch's draft report was overly credited with nothing but intangibles. Some athletes (e.g. DeMeco Ryans) are evaluated only on measurable like height, weight, speed and intangibles are never factored into the evaluation...where as others (e.g. A.J. Hawk) with marginal measurable are given far too much credit for intangibles. One should really look close and read how these two types of athletes are judged and evaluated in these reports...then you may see my point. But then again you may not...ain't America grand!

Scott Wright
01-15-2010, 04:17 AM
I have to admit I am beyond psyched to see Tebow in Mobile.

Finally a chance to evaluate him in a pro style offense making NFL throws! In person!!!

You guys are right though, he could make himself a ton of money at the Senior Bowl.

AntoinCD
01-15-2010, 04:54 AM
He also could lose a ton of money. I like it though it shows he has that competitive edge. I'm hoping he has a good showing

Scott Wright
01-15-2010, 05:15 AM
He also could lose a ton of money. I like it though it shows he has that competitive edge. I'm hoping he has a good showing

I don't know if I see him losing a ton of money honestly.

If he plays poorly people will explain it away by noting it was his first exposure to a pro style system. I wouldn't be at all surprised if at the end of the week those who loved him beforehand still love him and vise versa. If he happens to play well then look out!

AntoinCD
01-15-2010, 05:24 AM
What's his ceiling? If he plays relatively well and takes to the coaching how high can he go. I've thought for a while he won't fall out of the first but how high in the first can he go?

Scott Wright
01-15-2010, 05:38 AM
What's his ceiling? If he plays relatively well and takes to the coaching how high can he go. I've thought for a while he won't fall out of the first but how high in the first can he go?

Top 10 wouldn't shock me.

If by some chance he kills it at the Senior Bowl? Top 5? #1 Overall?

AntoinCD
01-15-2010, 05:49 AM
Apart from the obvious with Jacksonville being rumoured to be very interested do any teams in the top 10 or 15 stand out as likely destinations. My guess would be Buffalo or maybe San Francisco as a dark horse

Brent
01-15-2010, 06:23 AM
tebow is a similar prospect with his delivery
How? Rivers' delivery is not slower than a glacier.

nofalcons10
01-15-2010, 08:06 AM
How? Rivers' delivery is not slower than a glacier.

people always talk about talk about his throwing motion but just like rivers his view of the field and arm strength can off-set his unorthodox delivery.

you show me where tebow is any worse of a prospect than rivers was.

tebow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsditoWmwNM
rivers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrVhHFXgaCQ&NR=1


rivers also benefited from learning for a year behind drew brees and leaning on an incredible running game.

descendency
01-15-2010, 09:42 AM
In my opinion, Rivers delivery is faster (and marginally shorter) and has a higher ball velocity.

bored of education
01-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Is this guy still comparing Rivers to Tebow? Really? Gholston is the next LT too right?

Sniper
01-15-2010, 10:02 AM
I have to admit I am beyond psyched to see Tebow in Mobile.

Finally a chance to evaluate him in a pro style offense making NFL throws! In person!!!

You guys are right though, he could make himself a ton of money at the Senior Bowl.

It's also a chance to be forgiven for all of your sins. That's got to be worth something.

GoRavens
01-15-2010, 10:08 AM
Tim Tebow = Bobby Douglass?

Babylon
01-15-2010, 10:27 AM
Tim Tebow = Bobby Douglass?

Douglass was a terrible passer, maybe as a runner i could see the comparison.

nofalcons10
01-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Tim Tebow = Bobby Douglass?

S-E-C qbs:

cutler>stafford> tebow>jason cambell> jamarcus russel>rex grossman.

i'd only rank stafford ahead of tebow because of the offense he played in, not based on talent.

nofalcons10
01-15-2010, 01:30 PM
In my opinion, Rivers delivery is faster (and marginally shorter) and has a higher ball velocity.
i don't know if i would say that. his delivery seems plenty fast and accurate in many of the clips past 3:15 to the end of the video i posted above.

I've seen many S-E-C qbs selected in the 1st recently. tebow i feel is better than many.

i watched philip rivers play in that senior bowl in 2004.

tebow has the confidence and leadership qualities of rivers minus the arrogance. he has better intangibles than jamarcus russell and more talent than jason cambell.


rex grossman had a terrific deep ball but he sucked on most intermediate and short routes. Tebow can nail every pass and has a very aggressive personality like rivers and drew brees.

i don't think that he will let himself fail in the NFL.

BandwagonPunditry
01-16-2010, 07:55 AM
For Tebow's sake I hope he slides to the lower end of the first. An ideal situation for him would be to sit Aaron Rodgers-style behind an excellent quarterback for 3+ years. Tebow needs to be sat behind a Manning or a Brees, or a Brady with the sort of established support and coaching that'll let him realise however much potential he possesses. If he ends up going higher I can see him being pushed into the starting lineup too early and he'll struggle.

Sadly, I doubt those teams would spend a first on him. Catch-22 sort of situation for him.

LookItsAlDavis
01-16-2010, 10:05 AM
I feel like the Eagles, Patriots, or Cardinals (If Warner stays one more year.) are the best case scenarios for him.

Average OT LB
01-16-2010, 11:17 AM
i don't know if i would say that. his delivery seems plenty fast and accurate in many of the clips past 3:15 to the end of the video i posted above.

I've seen many S-E-C qbs selected in the 1st recently. tebow i feel is better than many.

i watched philip rivers play in that senior bowl in 2004.

tebow has the confidence and leadership qualities of rivers minus the arrogance. he has better intangibles than jamarcus russell and more talent than jason cambell.


rex grossman had a terrific deep ball but he sucked on most intermediate and short routes. Tebow can nail every pass and has a very aggressive personality like rivers and drew brees.

i don't think that he will let himself fail in the NFL.

What you won't get from watching clips of plays or highlights, is Tim Tebow shanking throws or missing reads or running too early. He does these things with very high regularity. I don't consider a 'read' to be: look to the receiver the play is designed to go, then to the check down. Look, anybody can do that. When you play for Florida, you can get away with it. I'm not doubting Tebow can make a play, hell I know pretty much anybody if they get into a groove can do something impressive. What I am saying is that he can't be a professional.

My opinion of Tim as a quarterback is very low. It is an opinion. Comparing him to Rivers is any way is silly at best. That's fact. Rivers gets the ball out very quick, is known for accuracy and making smart reads very quickly. Tim Tebow is known for his rushing touchdown record, his jump pass, his wins, having more heart than Shane Falco.. and countless other things. None of them, is a quick release, accuracy or making smart reads. That comparison is crazy talk.

Babylon
01-16-2010, 11:18 AM
I feel like the Eagles, Patriots, or Cardinals (If Warner stays one more year.) are the best case scenarios for him.

I think the Eagles and Pats would probably look at him in round 2 and i doubt he'll be there. I keep thinking one of these in-charge types like Shanahan/Carroll and Holmgren (with 5 yr contract in hand) are going to try to change the face of the franchise and draft Tebow early.

tjsunstein
01-16-2010, 11:21 AM
What's this talk about the Eagles? Kolb is the future!

not srs.

Babylon
01-16-2010, 11:27 AM
What's this talk about the Eagles? Kolb is the future!

not srs.

Agree. Actually not sure that Kolb is the long range answer but doubt they are in a position to take Tim Tebow.

As for him having to sit a year, they all should be doing that plus with Tebow you could put a bunch of gimmick stuff in for the 1st year to get him on the field.

Sniper
01-16-2010, 11:32 AM
Tim Tebow + Eagles = goodbye, third-and-short problems!

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 01:11 PM
There's 3 or 4 different threads on Tebow (all of which are multiple pages), and I didn't know which one to post this in, so maybe a mod can merge all the Tebow threads into one?

Anyways, I stumbled across this and it happens to be the best scouting report on Tebow I've seen. It comes from Daniel Jeremiah's (a former assistant to Phil Savage in Baltimore) website movethesticks.com:



I have spent the week studying Tim Tebow at the Senior Bowl and my original opinion has not been swayed. I believe the odds are stacked against Tebow ever becoming a starting QB at the next level. I have two major concerns: His release and his accuracy on drive throws.
Before delivering the ball, he drops it below his waist, cocks it and then wheels it forward at a slow rate of speed. He needs a lot of room in the pocket to operate and he won’t be granted that space at the next level. If he comes off his first read, he doesn’t have the time to re-**** and deliver the ball.
He is comfortable on bucket throws. He can lay the ball up high in the air on fades and corner routes and drop it in the bucket. However, he really struggles to drive the ball downfield with velocity and accuracy. You have to be able to drive the ball on skinny posts, deep out routes and comebacks. The windows are small and the ability to place the ball accurately with velocity is incredibly important.
He is best suited to go to a team with an established QB. He can contribute in the wildcat stuff while developing his skill as a TE/HB.As a UF fan who watched nearly all of Tebow's games, I can tell you he absolutely nails Tebow as a player, especially the part on bucket throws vs driving throws.

For mod:
All Tebow Threads (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/search.php?searchid=558838)

gpngc
02-01-2010, 01:21 PM
This is what scares me the most:

Before delivering the ball, he drops it below his waist, cocks it and then wheels it forward at a slow rate of speed. He needs a lot of room in the pocket to operate and he won’t be granted that space at the next level. If he comes off his first read, he doesn’t have the time to re-**** and deliver the ball.

His ball is lacking the "zip" it needs in the NFL.

I'm starting to lean heavily toward the dark side here... I want him to succeed but...

P-L
02-01-2010, 01:26 PM
I merged a few of the more recent Tim Tebow threads. I'm not going to go back and merge every one of them though.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
This is what scares me the most:



His ball is lacking the "zip" it needs in the NFL.

I'm starting to lean heavily toward the dark side here... I want him to succeed but...

That's how I feel about him.

After his sophomore campaign I had no doubt he'd make it as an NFL QB, as long as he continued to show progression in his decision making and mechanics. Even with all the hard work, he's regressed in those areas since his sophomore year. The beating he took running the ball in those extra two years didn't help him out either - he looks much slower and less explosive than he did in that sophomore year.

Warpig
02-01-2010, 01:29 PM
He reminds me of a more athletic Rex Grossman and Byron Leftwich as far as his throwing motion. Can't make a living as an NFL starter with a long winding throw. Which is unfortunate for him because all his other qualities; Leadership, Intelligence (watching and breaking down game tape), Dedication, and ability to motivate teammates would make him a great addition to the league for years to come.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 01:33 PM
He reminds me of a more athletic Rex Grossman and Byron Leftwich as far as his throwing motion. Can't make a living as an NFL starter with a long winding throw. Which is unfortunate for him because all his other qualities; Leadership, Intelligence (watching and breaking down game tape), Dedication, and ability to motivate teammates would make him a great addition to the league for years to come.

Rex Grossman's actually got a very nice delivery and outstanding arm strength - he's just an idiot.

Leftwich though...spot on. Their deliveries are almost identical - the way they drop it to their waist and wind it all the way back up.

YAYareaRB
02-01-2010, 01:38 PM
His mechanics suck big time. I watched the Senior Bowl and his ball just seems slow. Nice tight spiral but slow as heck. I hope someone can fix it but he's a hell of a player.

Saints-Tigers
02-01-2010, 02:11 PM
Tim Tebow + Eagles = goodbye, third-and-short problems!

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Andy Reid drafted him because of everyone always calling for a short yardage back in Philly? lolol.

His mechanics suck big time. I watched the Senior Bowl and his ball just seems slow. Nice tight spiral but slow as heck. I hope someone can fix it but he's a hell of a player.

Which is odd, because I always picture the throw to Cooper against LSU, and it was the wobbliest and ugliest duck I've ever seen.

MizzouBig12
02-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Interestingly, I recently re-watched the FU/Cincinnati game and Tebow's throws were precise and thrown with beautiful touch, although I didn't note much velocity. His deep sideline throw to Cooper for the touchdown was a thing of beauty. I compared these to his Senior Bowl performance, and the difference was stark. He just didn't seem comfortable under center, doing normal 3-7 step drops. He wasn't dreadful, 8 out of 12 is normally a good day, but they were all dink-n-dunks that would make David Gerrard proud.

Halsey
02-01-2010, 02:53 PM
After following Tebow at the Senior Bowl this week, I find myself asking if Tebow really is as good as his press. It seems that many people believe without question that he's "one of the best players in the history of college football". Don't get me wrong, I know he's a great player, but I'm no longer convinced he's an all timer. He was in a great situation at UF, surrounded by elite college talent, great coaching and a system that fit him to a T...bow....Anyway, maybe I'm just being a biased UGA fan, but I find myself wondering if Tebow really would be so great if he had not been in such an ideal situation at UF. Ask yourself this: what if someone like Dan LeFevour swapped teams with Tebow. Would we still be talking about Tebow as the GOAT? Would Central Michigan have been any better with Tebow instead of LeFevour? Would Florida have been that much worse?

Brothgar
02-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Tim Tebow's tears killed Chuck Norris

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 03:25 PM
After following Tebow at the Senior Bowl this week, I find myself asking if Tebow really is as good as his press. It seems that many people believe without question that he's "one of the best players in the history of college football". Don't get me wrong, I know he's a great player, but I'm no longer convinced he's an all timer. He was in a great situation at UF, surrounded by elite college talent, great coaching and a system that fit him to a T...bow....Anyway, maybe I'm just being a biased UGA fan, but I find myself wondering if Tebow really would be so great if he had not been in such an ideal situation at UF. Ask yourself this: what if someone like Dan LeFevour swapped teams with Tebow. Would we still be talking about Tebow as the GOAT? Would Central Michigan have been any better with Tebow instead of LeFevour? Would Florida have been that much worse?

True, but you can say this about any great player on a great team. Do Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart cancel out each others' greatness? What about Tommy Frazier and those godly Nebraska teams? Why should it be held against him that he went to a good program, with good coaching, to a system that allowed him to excel?

Come on. How much higher of a level could you possibly expect out of a college quarterback?

CLong4Heisman
02-01-2010, 03:33 PM
Tim Tebow's tears killed Chuck Norris

Tim Tebow tears circumsize little kids in Peru.

RealityCheck
02-01-2010, 03:39 PM
Tim Tebow tears circumsize little kids in Peru.
Tim Tebow's TV doesn't have a remote. Tim Tebow is always in control.

CC.SD
02-01-2010, 03:47 PM
My opinion of Tim as a quarterback is very low. It is an opinion. Comparing him to Rivers is any way is silly at best. That's fact. Rivers gets the ball out very quick, is known for accuracy and making smart reads very quickly. Tim Tebow is known for his rushing touchdown record, his jump pass, his wins, having more heart than Shane Falco.. and countless other things. None of them, is a quick release, accuracy or making smart reads. That comparison is crazy talk.

Doooood...no. Chicks dig scars.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 03:54 PM
So weird...that's the second Replacements reference I've heard today.

fear the elf
02-01-2010, 03:55 PM
True, but you can say this about any great player on a great team. Do Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart cancel out each others' greatness? What about Tommy Frazier and those godly Nebraska teams? Why should it be held against him that he went to a good program, with good coaching, to a system that allowed him to excel?

Come on. How much higher of a level could you possibly expect out of a college quarterback?

Agreed. You can't play the "what if" game. Tebow, did every single thing you could ask of a player at the college level, and for that he is one of the best, if not the best ever. It cost him something in his progression though. He made a deal with the devil, so to speak.

P-L
02-01-2010, 05:51 PM
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20100126/134608.gif

kennyb
02-01-2010, 05:52 PM
Tebow shouldn't even be drafted. Maybe 6th/7th round. He sucks as a QB, no potential, IMO, at all. He had plenty of time to work on reads, mechanics...he did and he CAN'T do those things.

I hope he is drafted late, so it can put this to bed. Otherwise if he's drafted in the first 3 rounds, we'll have to wait until he craps the bed next year for him to be a proven bust.

yourfavestoner
02-01-2010, 05:54 PM
Tebow shouldn't even be drafted. Maybe 6th/7th round. He sucks as a QB, no potential, IMO, at all. He had plenty of time to work on reads, mechanics...he did and he CAN'T do those things.

I hope he is drafted late, so it can put this to bed. Otherwise if he's drafted in the first 3 rounds, we'll have to wait until he craps the bed next year for him to be a proven bust.

His potential is through the roof. The problem is that his floor is about as low as it can be as a QB prospect.

Bengals78
02-01-2010, 05:58 PM
Doooood...no. Chicks dig scars.

And glory lasts forever.

Tebow will make a for a great NFL player...just not a QB.
FB or HBack and he will be golden.

JoeJoeBrown
02-01-2010, 06:13 PM
His potential is through the roof. The problem is that his floor is about as low as it can be as a QB prospect.

Yep. Total crapshoot at this point. If he doesn't pan out as a QB after a few years of trying to develop him, he will pan out as a player at another position.

He loves football, is a very good athlete, is intelligent, and has great character.

RealityCheck
02-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Yep. Total crapshoot at this point. If he doesn't pan out as a QB after a few years of trying to develop him, he will pan out as a player at another position.

He loves football, is a very good athlete, is intelligent, and has great character.

You. said. it. all.

Prowler
02-01-2010, 06:24 PM
3rd round value and backup but somebody will take him in the 2nd round due to intangibles. i wouldn't really blame them for it either. 400,000/year for tebow is a bargain with his ticket sales/merchandising potential.

DeathbyStat
02-02-2010, 08:14 AM
Skip Bayless claims he will win a super bowl as a starting QB

GoRavens
02-02-2010, 08:38 AM
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20100126/134608.gif

that's great.
The man needs to work his butt off, and refine every aspect of his game.
As of right now, I'd say he goes anywhere from the 4th to 6th round.. which sounds crazy. Tebow looked pathetic at the Senior Bowl, and dare I say it... Zac Robinson > Tim Tebow

lod01
02-02-2010, 11:48 AM
Skip Bayless claims he will win a super bowl as a starting QB

Bayless is loaded with stupid comments. In fact, when someone makes a stupid comment like that, it should be called a 'Bayless'. Tebow is not even as good an NFL prospect as hacks like Troy Smith before him. The NFL defenses would make him cry by the 3rd week if he was a starter.

kennyb
02-02-2010, 12:17 PM
Bayless is loaded with stupid comments. In fact, when someone makes a stupid comment like that, it should be called a 'Bayless'. Tebow is not even as good an NFL prospect as hacks like Troy Smith before him. The NFL defenses would make him cry by the 3rd week if he was a starter.

That's what I think.

Potential? He starts from not being able to read a defense or have a realistic delivery and apparently hasn't been able to develop that in 4 years.

What potential?

FUNBUNCHER
02-02-2010, 12:17 PM
People are writing the ending on Tebow's career too soon. Is he a top 10 pick? NO.
Will he start as a rookie?? NO.

But if your team anticipates the need for a new starting QB in 3-4 years, there are worse decisions than drafting a QB like Tebow and developing him for the future.

After 5 years, if he isn't at least a #2 on an NFL team, I doubt he switches positions.

Once the draft is over, he'll disappear on some team's depth chart, and we can forget about bashing him for a while.

CLong4Heisman
02-02-2010, 12:49 PM
People are writing the ending on Tebow's career too soon. Is he a top 10 pick? NO.
Will he start as a rookie?? NO.

But if your team anticipates the need for a new starting QB in 3-4 years, there are worse decisions than drafting a QB like Tebow and developing him for the future.

After 5 years, if he isn't at least a #2 on an NFL team, I doubt he switches positions.

Once the draft is over, he'll disappear on some team's depth chart, and we can forget about bashing him for a while.

This is Ed Warner from ESPN at the training camp home of (insert team that drafted Tim Tebow).

prock
02-02-2010, 01:53 PM
sorry funbuncher, no one will ever stop talking about tim tebow.

kennyb
02-02-2010, 02:54 PM
People are writing the ending on Tebow's career too soon. Is he a top 10 pick? NO.
Will he start as a rookie?? NO.

But if your team anticipates the need for a new starting QB in 3-4 years, there are worse decisions than drafting a QB like Tebow and developing him for the future.

After 5 years, if he isn't at least a #2 on an NFL team, I doubt he switches positions.

Once the draft is over, he'll disappear on some team's depth chart, and we can forget about bashing him for a while.

Hasn't shown any potential for "development". The opposite is true.

Why would you draft a player in the top 4 rounds who is a complete and utter project? 4 years? By then his rookie contract is up and you don't own his rights anymore anyway.

yourfavestoner
02-02-2010, 03:11 PM
Hasn't shown any potential for "development". The opposite is true.

Why would you draft a player in the top 4 rounds who is a complete and utter project? 4 years? By then his rookie contract is up and you don't own his rights anymore anyway.

Let's be honest here, is it really going to take him four years to develop? Look at Vince Young. All the same issues: funky delivery, poor mechanics and footwork, played in a "gimmick" offense with a lot of talent around him. People were saying there's no way he'd be ready to see the field until his third year and he was starting games and holding his own midway through his rookie year.

His progression will likely follow that of most rookie quarterbacks. Limited to no action rookie season. Begin to get playing time in second season. Expected to be full time starter by third.

Babylon
02-02-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm wondering if the whole Christianity thing is going to turn some teams off. Doing Superbowl ads is sort of going down a slippery soap to me.

Shane P. Hallam
02-02-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm wondering if the whole Christianity thing is going to turn some teams off. Doing Superbowl ads is sort of going down a slippery soap to me.

Doubt it. Didn't turn people off to Reggie White or Kurt Warner late in their careers. I don't think it matters. If a player can play and isn't a knucklehead, then it doesn't matter so much.

clay_allison
02-02-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm wondering if the whole Christianity thing is going to turn some teams off. Doing Superbowl ads is sort of going down a slippery soap to me.
Especially since no football fans are Christians. Wait...

stephenson86
02-02-2010, 03:41 PM
im just curious as to why people think tebow will do well at a different position?

not arguing against or for it just curious, its not like changing position is easy, especially when your a QB

clay_allison
02-02-2010, 03:43 PM
Tebow will need a long time to get ready to play pro football IMO, but his upside is he could be a Mark Brunell type player (MB was not a big time passer at UW).

prock
02-02-2010, 03:46 PM
im just curious as to why people think tebow will do well at a different position?

not arguing against or for it just curious, its not like changing position is easy, especially when your a QB

i was thinking the same thing. that argument was brought up in the gerhart thread. just because the guy is a good athlete doesnt mean he will have the instincts or know-how to play a different position.

yourfavestoner
02-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Zach Miller (a Tebow clone from last year) made the move to TE for the Jags and he's progressing quite nicely.

He's got the size, he knows football, and he's aggressive. If he's willing to get his nose dirty blocking and he can catch, then he can probably play tight end.

RealityCheck
02-02-2010, 04:21 PM
I guess we can use Tebow as a second TE in GL situations.

Babylon
02-02-2010, 05:11 PM
Doubt it. Didn't turn people off to Reggie White or Kurt Warner late in their careers. I don't think it matters. If a player can play and isn't a knucklehead, then it doesn't matter so much.

I think Reggie White used his celebrity status late in his career to state his position on issues like **** or whatever. Tebow is not even in the league yet and he's doing Pro Life commercials, i think there is a big differance there.