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Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 03:14 AM
I just posted a new mock draft, which is the first two rounder of the year.

You can link to the latest edition via the main page:

2010 Mock Draft - v.6.0
http://www.draftcountdown.com/

As always constructive criticism is not only welcomed but encouraged. However, please be sure to explain the reasoning behind your opinions just like I do in the mock or risk being infracted.

Let's keep this thread fun and informative!

Now... FIRE AWAY! :)

ViperVisor
02-11-2010, 03:31 AM
49ers smelling the playoffs makes trading up for a QB unlikely. Coaches and Front Office and Ownership all feel the pressure to win now.

And the QB crop isn't that tempting even though we have Alex Smith.

Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 03:37 AM
49ers smelling the playoffs makes trading up for a QB unlikely. Coaches and Front Office and Ownership all feel the pressure to win now.

And the QB crop isn't that tempting even though we have Alex Smith.

And that type of short-sighted approach will keep the Niners out of the playoffs.

AntoinCD
02-11-2010, 03:41 AM
While I like all 4 players the Pats pick I wouldn't be overly happy with that draft. I'm not going to lie I love Tebow but I'd be more than a little annoyed if BB took him at 22, especially with Brandon Graham etc on the board. In the 2nd Koa Misi is definitely rising after good showing at the Senior Bowl and I like the Dwyer fit as to what Maroney should have been. But with the third second I would even take another OLB especially since Jerry Hughes is still there.

Addict
02-11-2010, 04:02 AM
And that type of short-sighted approach will keep the Niners out of the playoffs.

BOOM, headshot.

Also, for the Lions, McCoy and Robinson would make me a very, very happy man.

ViperVisor
02-11-2010, 04:16 AM
And that type of short-sighted approach will keep the Niners out of the playoffs.

I was fine with taking Sanchez who you had to 49ers in a mock if he fell last year. Start a new 3 year plan. Would of been smart then to trade Gore as he would be using up his miles for a team that wasn't likely to content.

This year the team just needs the offense to get 50 more points to look like a contender on paper. 3 more points a game. Doesn't look hard. And maybe the team's promise is a mirage. But it appears so close and checking it out is the easy option.

Defsoul
02-11-2010, 06:18 AM
Picking Tim Tebow in the first round would probably be the toughest blow of fate a Patriots fan had to deal with since the loss to the Giants in Super Bowl 42. Picking Tebow is even worse than losing Tom Brady in 2008 or chocking in the AFC finals in 2006 against the Colts.

When Brady got hurt in the first game of the 2008 season, at least there was hope that he would come back and lead us to another Super Bowl in the future. When we blew that second-half lead in the AFCCG against the Colts in 2006, at least there was hope that they would bring in some talented guys on offense and make another run for the Lombardi Throphy.

But with Tebow... there is no hope :D

wicket
02-11-2010, 06:33 AM
Pouncey over everson griffen for the saints doesnt make me happy but getting washington in the second partially makes up for it.

In my opinion(!!!!) Pouncey doesnt have good value late in the first and although center is similar in need-value as DEnd the Saints first rounder has to be defensive. Besides that If you would give the saints Griffen you would have the first two picks of my Saints dream draft as displayed in my sig ;).

Seriously you were on such a roll(two previous years) for the saints untill the last two mocks :(.

draftguru151
02-11-2010, 06:46 AM
JPP over McClain =

http://s3.media.squarespace.com/production/488498/5552634/wp-content/uploads/sad-panda.jpg

Bleh and a WR that can't catch. Not that bad though. :)

ATLDirtyBirds
02-11-2010, 06:50 AM
I'd be happy if we took Kindle. Just can't wait to see what we do in FA. It's either going to be a DE/CB at 19/20.

billsfootball15
02-11-2010, 07:01 AM
right now i agree that for the Bills, Bulaga has to be the pick in that scenario. however, now that we will be running a 34 next year, I wonder if Rolando McClain could emerge as a realistic pick at 9. he should be on the board when we pick, but if we do go in that direction, we would be pretty much forced to take a tackle in round 2. I dont mind Demaryius Thomas and the whole GA Tech connection makes sense but if we pass on both Gilyard and LaFell, well idk. Especially because I feel like Thomas could be had in the 3rd.

SloppyJoe
02-11-2010, 07:06 AM
Worst case senario for the Bucs but Eric Berry is a very good compensation price.
i might actually prefer Dez Bryant in that situation and a DB and DT in Round 2

Addict
02-11-2010, 07:16 AM
Worst case senario for the Bucs but Eric Berry is a very good compensation price.
i might actually prefer Dez Bryant in that situation and a DB and DT in Round 2

I hate to tell you, but that worst case scenario is also by far the most likelly one.

SloppyJoe
02-11-2010, 07:24 AM
I hate to tell you, but that worst case scenario is also by far the most likelly one.

the bad thing is, i know that too :(

Nalej
02-11-2010, 07:28 AM
Tebow in the 1st- I hate it. Not saying its not realistic. I just hope it doesn't happen.
Dwyer- I like his style- my only problem is if I was watching this draft and the Pats hadn't taken an OLB by now I'd probably break my remote right after I threw it across my living room
I'd like to know why you have us taking Misi over J.Hughes... that one shocked me
I like A.Hernandez if the Pats don't resign B.Watson.

In this scenerio I think this draft would be better

1-B.Graham- OLB pass rusher who has played in space (played MLB before)
2-B.LaFell- WR- with Moss going deep, Welker/Edelman going short, LaFell is the perfect compliment to this receiving core. A stud possesion receiver
2-B.Spikes- ILB- We need a true thumper next to Mayo. Seau can't keep coming out of retirement for us
2-A.Hernandez- if B.Watson isn't resigned or Asamoah OG/S.Capers would be a good pick as well since we need OL help bad and we don't have a 3rd round pick

Halsey
02-11-2010, 07:31 AM
I don't know a lot about Kindle, so it's hard for me to form a strong opinion on the pick. Can he really play DE in a 4-3? As an OLB in a 4-3, is he a better prospect than Weatherspoon? Weatherspoon seems to be the kind of prospect the Falcons really like: experienced, great intangibles, productive in college.

GoRavens
02-11-2010, 07:35 AM
Tebow in the first round is a little too high, even for Billicheck.
Patriots would be better off addressing needs on defense before getting a QB that'll sit on the bench for another 3 years.

Caddy
02-11-2010, 07:42 AM
If the Bucs are able to get Lamarr Houston in the 3rd I'd be very happy with that.

Grizzlegom
02-11-2010, 07:43 AM
JPP over McClain =

http://s3.media.squarespace.com/production/488498/5552634/wp-content/uploads/sad-panda.jpg

Bleh and a WR that can't catch. Not that bad though. :)

this pretty much sums up my feelings. I know we need an OLB but i'm not sold on any of them having good value at 12 although i expect Kindle and JPP to have huge workout numbers and move up boards similar to Gholston and Maybin as you referenced in your write up. If we did take an OLB i'd hope its Kindle because he's more NFL ready as JPP would give us two starting OLB that are very raw and explosive pass rushers but can't play the run. We already have a raw, explosive pass rusher in Cameron Wake, i'd rather get someone who can play both the run and the pass which is why if McClain was available i'd be extremely disappointed if we passed on him since he would make the biggest impact on our team.

I could live with LaFell in the second but FS was one of our worst positions last year and if Gibril Wilson gets released as i expect, Nate Allen would be a perfect pick there.

AkiliSmith
02-11-2010, 07:45 AM
I'm bored of the Gresham pick to Cincy. It's just not going to happen. They don't value the tight end like other teams. They are used primarily as blockers.

How good of a blocker is Gresham? I don't think he has much experience doing it and they already have an unblocking receiver at tight end.

Marvin Lewis has drafted 2 tight ends in his 7 drafts as a head coach, the highest being just last season with Chase Coffman.

WR is a MUCH bigger need than a tight end or safety.

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 08:09 AM
Ok Scott, say it with me: "With the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Chiefs select Rolando McClain, LB from the University of Alabama.

Okung isn't a bad pick for the Chiefs. But you said it yourself, he's not a "franchise" LT. To me, McClain has the tools and potential to be a special LB. Whereas Okung is no Jake Long or no Ryan Clady. To me he'll be solid to good, but not special. IMO, had he come out last year, he probably get taken after Michael Oher.

And the Chiefs' offense got significantly better as the season went on. Jamal Charles amassed over 1100 yards in only 8 starts behind this offensive line. And Matt Cassel's sack totals reduced to half compared to the first half of the season.

When you look at the Chiefs' defense, it did not get better as the season went on. Week 15 of the NFL season, an unknown running back from the Cleveland Browns nearly set the NFL rushing record against the Chiefs' defense. And the Chiefs' defense was like 2nd from the bottom in sacks. The Chiefs' defense is far behind the offense.

Don't get me wrong, the Chiefs offense isn't settled. But this defense needs serious help. Moreso than the offense. If I'm Pioli I go McClain, Cody and Spikes. Or maybe McClain, Cody and Jerry Hughes. In an effort to improve a very poor defense as the defense is in far greater need of upgrades.

Abaddon
02-11-2010, 08:13 AM
I can't help but feel like Brandon Graham and Dan Williams will go a good bit higher than where you currently have them. Seems like DTs are either gambled on really early, or fall like a rock. Graham may not be the biggest or fastest, but I like the combination of effort, production, and pedigree. Should be top 15, imo.

Abaddon
02-11-2010, 08:16 AM
BTW, another safety for the Raiders? I get the size/speed = Al Davis thing, but the old fool does actually factor need into the equation. Safety is pretty much the only position on the roster that doesn't represent a need. Very poor pick. Hard to imagine Al passing up Kyle Wilson there. It's all but a mortal lock that a CB will go to Oakland (likely to his dismay) within the first 2 days, if not the first 2 rounds.

Addict
02-11-2010, 08:16 AM
Ok Scott, say it with me: "With the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Chiefs select Rolando McClain, LB from the University of Alabama.

Okung isn't a bad pick for the Chiefs. But you said it yourself, he's not a "franchise" LT. To me, McClain has the tools and potential to be a special LB. Whereas Okung is no Jake Long or no Ryan Clady. To me he'll be solid to good, but not special. IMO, had he come out last year, he probably get taken after Michael Oher.

And the Chiefs' offense got significantly better as the season went on. Jamal Charles amassed over 1100 yards in only 8 starts behind this offensive line. And Matt Cassel's sack totals reduced to half compared to the first half of the season.

When you look at the Chiefs' defense, it did not get better as the season went on. Week 15 of the NFL season, an unknown running back from the Cleveland Browns nearly set the NFL rushing record against the Chiefs' defense. And the Chiefs' defense was like 2nd from the bottom in sacks. The Chiefs' defense is far behind the offense.

Don't get me wrong, the Chiefs offense isn't settled. But this defense needs serious help. Moreso than the offense. If I'm Pioli I go McClain, Cody and Spikes. Or maybe McClain, Cody and Jerry Hughes. In an effort to improve a very poor defense as the defense is in far greater need of upgrades.

picking a linebacker fifth overall is just not making a lick of sense. You can draft fine linebackers in the second round. There has got to be something more sensible you can spend that pick on.

Razor
02-11-2010, 08:20 AM
Alright Scott, nice work in general.. But as a Patriots fan I almost threw up when I read your mock. First of all, NE will not select Tebow - especially in the first round! Brandon Graham, Tate, Benn, Pouncey, Odrick and even Dan Williams would all have been better selections. The Dwyer pick is good imo, and it's very good value at that point. Good pick. Koa Misi over Brandon Spikes? If that happen on drafday I will throw myself in front of a bus..

The Hernandez pick in the second fits a need, but the wrong player imo. Gronkowski is a better overall prospect, whereas Hernandez is somewhat one-dimensional. Kyle Wilson, Tyson Alualu and Jared Veldheer are all good options at that point, and this draft is very deep at TE.

So as much as I love your mocks in general, they're pretty bad from a Pats fans perspective (Or that's just my opinion though). Keep them coming though, I especially look forward to your first one after the Combine. :)

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Picking Tim Tebow in the first round would probably be the toughest blow of fate a Patriots fan had to deal with since the loss to the Giants in Super Bowl 42.
Not at all, dude. Not at all.

Addict
02-11-2010, 08:25 AM
Not at all, dude. Not at all.

selecting Tim Tebow is worse to you than losing a superbowl your team was intensely favored to win?

princefielder28
02-11-2010, 08:30 AM
Brandon Graham + Kyle Wilson = :)

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 08:31 AM
selecting Tim Tebow is worse to you than losing a superbowl your team was intensely favored to win?
No, the other way around. I want Tebow in my team, but I didn't want to lose that SB.

GoRavens
02-11-2010, 08:37 AM
Let's face it, Tebow in the 1st round is just plain dumb.

Addict
02-11-2010, 08:38 AM
No, the other way around. I want Tebow in my team, but I didn't want to lose that SB.

Oh okay. In that case I don't need to go off about what spoiled children Patriots fans have become.

Although I don't see the pats take Tebow, since Belichek seems hellbent on fast lane overhauling the Pats to win few more SB's fast, spending a first round pick on a project QB seems unecessarily. The pats have shown that their system is able to work very well with late-round picked QB's (I'm talking about Cassell, not so much Brady, that's just not fair)

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 08:45 AM
Oh okay. In that case I don't need to go off about what spoiled children Patriots fans have become.

Although I don't see the pats take Tebow, since Belichek seems hellbent on fast lane overhauling the Pats to win few more SB's fast, spending a first round pick on a project QB seems unecessarily. The pats have shown that their system is able to work very well with late-round picked QB's (I'm talking about Cassell, not so much Brady, that's just not fair)
I'd say we should go with Levi Brown, Skelton or Canfield in the 6th, that would work.

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 08:51 AM
picking a linebacker fifth overall is just not making a lick of sense. You can draft fine linebackers in the second round. There has got to be something more sensible you can spend that pick on.

Kind of like how Pioli spent the 3rd overall pick on Tyson Jackson last year? Or how the Seahawks spent a top 5 pick on Aaron Curry last year?

Addict
02-11-2010, 08:59 AM
Kind of like how Pioli spent the 3rd overall pick on Tyson Jackson last year? Or how the Seahawks spent a top 5 pick on Aaron Curry last year?

great examples. How did those selections work out? Thanks for playing.

Honestly this is your clever retort? Two guy who plays a different position than the guy we're discussing. See, McClain is an ILB, which is not the same as an OLB, which Curry was. Now you might argue that that difference is unfair, but it's there nonetheless. The difference is that very talented OLB's get drafted in the top five sometimes (see: Arrington, LaVar; Taylor, Lawrence) while even the most talented inside linebackers usually don't (see: Willis, Patrick; Lewis, Ray). I'm pretty sure Jackson was and is a defensive end so why you're even bringing him up is beyond me.

brasho
02-11-2010, 09:02 AM
Wow, the Bucs never addressing their glaring need at DT and LB Daryl Washington falling all the way to the last pick of round 2?

I think once Eric Berry gets poked, prodded, and measured at the combine and comes in closer to 5'9 than 5'11 and weighs in around 190, I don't think teams will be tripping over themselves to pick the tiny S from Tennessee.

I think the Bucs trade down and pickup Price from UCLA, two years younger than Suh and almost as productive and one year younger than McCoy and way more productive.

Washington should go way higher than #64 overall, he's just way too good to fall that far.

I have a hard time believing McDaniels in Denver will want another dumb diva WR when he still has Marshall on the roster.... even with Marshall off the roster, Bryant looks to me to be WR-diva 3.0.

Also, Tebow to the Pats when the Pats clearly have major areas of need? Senior Bowl week proved what most of us knew all along. Tebow is not a great passing QB and his running style will not work well in the NFL. LeFevour proved to be the better QB during practice and the game with better accuracy, a far better release, and much better mobility and escapability. Running over guys is not going to work in the NFL for Tebow and Belichek knows it. And considering Brandon Graham went one pick behind him??? For a team that finished 23rd in sacks, I would think their focus will not be on a future QB or gimmick offensive weapon but a guy that can improve that defense.

Other than that, I thought the rest of the picks made a lot of sense. I found the Gerhart to Houston pick very interesting. A good running game would do more to solve their defensive woes than any defensive player.

Nalej
02-11-2010, 09:04 AM
Not at all, dude. Not at all.

Eh, I disagree. The Pats have too many holes to take luxery picks.
Once all the Pats needs are addressed then sure- I'd be okay with it
OLB, ILB, OL, DL, RB, WR- all more important then a 3rd string QB/trick play guy
No, Tebow doesn't count as a RB either

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 09:06 AM
great examples. How did those selections work out? Thanks for playing.


You're welcome.

Point is that you missed is that when you are a team in need of IMPACT players, you get them where you can. McClain fits in many ways and has the tools and potential to be an IMPACT player.

So no, thank YOU for playing.

SenorGato
02-11-2010, 09:09 AM
Not a fan of Okung to the Chiefs...I don't think he's an elite OT propsect...I like Brandon Albert alot though...if anything they need a RG way more than they need a LT.

I'd hope they go BPA and select Bryant...Can't understand how Bryant is consistently considered a top talent in this draft yet can barely find his way into the top 10 of mocks. Even if his position doesn't represent value for whatever reason, you'd think the individual player overrides that. I mean McClain is a MLB...a good one is a dime a dozen in this league...yet he still gets top 5 talk.

I can only dream that Miami takes JPP...they need a Gholston. Same for the Pats taking Tebow while Brandon Graham goes right after their pick...

Scott, I highly doubt the Jets will be using their first pick on a #3/slot WR. Tate is quickly becoming the most overrated in this draft class, and that's saying alot with JPP and a couple of other guys around. I'd rather have Perrish Cox, Patrick Robinson, or Donovan Warren....though getting Franks in round 2 kind of makes up for it. Our need for a starting level 3-4 DE is really ignored...and I don't like Odrick, the guy everyone's talking about right now, as much as I used to. I'd prefer a CB in round 1 and then a 3-4 DE like Arthur Jones or Vince Oghobaase with our late #2.

Addict
02-11-2010, 09:17 AM
You're welcome.

Point is that you missed is that when you are a team in need of IMPACT players, you get them where you can. McClain fits in many ways and has the tools and potential to be an IMPACT player.

So no, thank YOU for playing.

You're a 3-4 team in shambles and your solution is an inside linebacker? And how the hell were the selections of Curry and Tyson Jackson in any way examples of this point? If I'm still playing then I demand to know what game we're playing here because you seem to change your opinion and main argument every time you post.

tjsunstein
02-11-2010, 09:17 AM
Brandon Graham + Kyle Wilson = :)

This.

The Packers grade out as money here with two of my favorite prospects filling needs in the first two rounds.

PACKmanN
02-11-2010, 09:18 AM
This.

The Packers grade out as money here with two of my favorite prospects filling needs in the first two rounds.

The thing with Wilson is he is another Tramon type of player, we already have that. Would rather go with Warren.

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
You're a 3-4 team in shambles and your solution is an inside linebacker? And how the hell were the selections of Curry and Tyson Jackson in any way examples of this point? If I'm still playing then I demand to know what game we're playing here because you seem to change your opinion and main argument every time you post.


LOL! Nah, you're the only one "playing" my friend. I'm just expressing the opinion of this Chiefs' fan. You really haven't contriubuted anything other than to say "it doesn't make a lick of sense". So if we're making "demands", I "demand" to know what your "better" idea is. Least I did put reasons behind my thinking in my initial post whether you agree with them or not.

brasho
02-11-2010, 09:26 AM
You're a 3-4 team in shambles and your solution is an inside linebacker? And how the hell were the selections of Curry and Tyson Jackson in any way examples of this point? If I'm still playing then I demand to know what game we're playing here because you seem to change your opinion and main argument every time you post.

If the Chiefs want to go the other direction again and take another surprise, seriously-Tyson Jackson #3 overall, then maybe they take Dunlap, another prototype DE and ship Dorsey out the door for a pack of twizzlers.

Defsoul
02-11-2010, 09:26 AM
I'd say we should go with Levi Brown, Skelton or Canfield in the 6th, that would work.

I agree, there is no need to spend a high pick on a QB. Brady wants to play another ten years until he is 41. Maybe he won't play that long, but baring injuries I don't see non other QB than Brady starting in the next five years. Any QB they're going to draft this year will be a free agent by then.

brasho
02-11-2010, 09:33 AM
I agree, there is no need to spend a high pick on a QB. Brady wants to play another ten years until he is 41. Maybe he won't play that long, but baring injuries I don't see non other QB than Brady starting in the next five years. Any QB they're going to draft this year will be a free agent by then.



Playing devil's advocate because I don't disagree, but with no CBA, players will need 6 years of service to be an UFA, besides that, free agents are made to be re-signed.

Addict
02-11-2010, 09:36 AM
LOL! Nah, you're the only one "playing" my friend.

solitaire it is then.


I'm just expressing the opinion of this Chiefs' fan.

What? Who am I talking to? Are you like one of those bugs who control a humanlike robot, like in Men In Black? Or wait no because that apostrophe indicates possession. So you're speaking on behalf of the ceiling fan of some native american tribe chief? What? Are you sure we're not playing anymore? If this was a clever ploy to confuse me into submission well... it's working.


You really haven't contriubuted anything other than to say "it doesn't make a lick of sense".

Yes I have. I've told you why the notion to draft an Inside Linebacker for a 3-4 defense with the fifth overall pick does not make sense. Really, the post you quoted actually had arguments in it, so start reading I guess.


So if we're making "demands", I "demand" to know what your "better" idea is.

I don't have one. I'm not a chiefs fan, I don't know what your needs are, I don't know who your fans like and I really don't know what the exact status of some of your players is. What I do know is that in no circumstance drafting an ILB at #5 is a good plan. Unless you're like a superbowl winning team that traded cleverly to get the pick and your only hole in the entire roster is at ILB, then I guess it would work. But other than that never.

Least I did put reasons behind my thinking in my initial post whether you agree with them or not.

Your explanation was why you would need an inside linebacker. My entire point is you can't justify picking one at #5 overall. You should try reading the posts of the guy you're arguiing with, it really helps with the hole 'making sense'-thing.

prock
02-11-2010, 09:48 AM
I've seen better Vikings mocks, and I've seen worse. I am OK with drafting a DT in the first ONLY if it is Dan Williams, but I would almost rather see a safety like Chad Jones there. But I wouldn't be upset with that. Navarro Bowman is a solid choice as well, he can sit for a year and then step in and replace Ben Leber. I would just have really preferred to see a safety taken in the first two rounds. Unless you plan on them getting one in the third, I don't think they can afford to not pick one in the first two rounds. Our secondary blows.

RWills
02-11-2010, 09:56 AM
I want to argue your reasons for picking Tebow and I really hope you can refute my opinions.

1. Yes, BB and Meyers are very close friends, this does not mean he picks florida players. In fact he has drafted 2 UF players overall and neither are on the team. He is also close to Saban, not 1 Alabama player picked so take this reason away.

2. Yes, they did scout Pat White, just like they heavily scouted Vernon Ghoulston and Dwayne Robertson which the Jets picked and we laughed all the way, it is called a smoke screen.

3. No, they dont want to implement the wildcat if they did they had former QB Stanback, Faulk and another former QB Eddleman, not 1 practice with them at wildcat, they have no plans. Kraft said it best, why would you take Tom Brady off the field?

4. They really like UDFA Hoyer very much from last year and will not carry 3 QB's.

5. OLB, DE, WR, TE, RB, FB, CB, OG - They have much more needs than to be wasted on QB who can't throw a sideline pass

superman8456
02-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Why do you see Jerry Hughes falling all the way down to the #58 pick?

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 10:02 AM
Eh, I disagree. The Pats have too many holes to take luxery picks.
Once all the Pats needs are addressed then sure- I'd be okay with it
OLB, ILB, OL, DL, RB, WR- all more important then a 3rd string QB/trick play guy
No, Tebow doesn't count as a RB either
We'll address some of those needs on free agency, and we got 3 2nd round picks. One of them would be for Tebow.

Hines
02-11-2010, 10:02 AM
I can dig that Steelers draft. Good work.

king2am
02-11-2010, 10:14 AM
And that type of short-sighted approach will keep the Niners out of the playoffs.

Short sighted?

-Alex Smith will be 26 when the season starts
-Playing in an offense tailored to his strengths
-Surrounded by young talent (finally)
-Playing for the same OC in consecutive season for the FIRST time

And not wanting to burn one of our 1st rounders this year, when we have the opportunity to make a serious push and haul in some difference making talent is short sighted?

8-8, 5-1 in the division that is now without Kurt Warner? I think the scenario you have for the 49ers is right on. A tackle to shore up our offensive line and then return man/secondary. Predicting this draft scenario you don't see the 49ers making the playoffs? It's the NFC West we're talking about here.

Razor
02-11-2010, 10:15 AM
Great post RWillis! I just want to comment in this:

4. They really like UDFA Hoyer very much from last year and will not carry 3 QB's.
I agree that they like Hoyer very much, so do I. I think he has great potential, and at this point I wouldn't be crying if Brady decides to retire in 3-4 years and let Hoyer take over (assuming he keeps on developing as he did his first year). I could, however, see them picking a player like Skelton or LeFevour in the 4th round although I doubt that Skelton will fall that far. Having only two "true" QBs on the roster is not a good idea in the long run imo, especially when one of them is a slightly injuryprone guy playing behind a mediocre OL.

drowe
02-11-2010, 10:20 AM
Thoughts on the Packers picks...

I like 'em. 2 very clean players there. I don't even mind not going OL in the first 2 rounds.

one thought I had was that I wouldn't mind Everson Griffen at 23 and Donovan Warren in the second round. Griffen would be more of what we hoped to have with Kampman, and Warren is just more of a Packer style CB.
Plus, it'd give us great symmetry with both of our OLBs from USC and both of our CBs from Michigan. :)

Defsoul
02-11-2010, 10:26 AM
We'll address some of those needs on free agency, and we got 3 2nd round picks. One of them would be for Tebow.

I agree. They will try to fill as many holes as possible via free agency, so they can pick BPA as often as possible. But I don't see Tebow as BPA until their last second round pick and even than you'll have to ask yourself: Would you rather improve your team now by drafting a playmaking WR, bolster up one of your lines with a tough linemen or get another OLB to improve a pedestrian pass rush or would you draft a quaertback prospect that won't help you much in the next five or six years?

eagles6606
02-11-2010, 10:29 AM
That's a very good Eagles draft. I believe the Eagles will address their need at defenssive end in free agency. Whether it is Julius Peppers, Aaron Kampman, or someone else they will address it in free agency. That leaves S and OLB as their biggest needs. Weatherspoon and Allen are very good players that could help immediatley. Also, if the board fell like that, I could see us trading into the second to take Everson Griffen.

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 10:34 AM
Short sighted?

-Alex Smith will be 26 when the season starts
-Playing in an offense tailored to his strengths
-Surrounded by young talent (finally)
-Playing for the same OC in consecutive season for the FIRST time

And not wanting to burn one of our 1st rounders this year, when we have the opportunity to make a serious push and haul in some difference making talent is short sighted?

8-8, 5-1 in the division that is now without Kurt Warner? I think the scenario you have for the 49ers is right on. A tackle to shore up our offensive line and then return man/secondary. Predicting this draft scenario you don't see the 49ers making the playoffs? It's the NFC West we're talking about here.
Pretty much this. The Cardinals got way weaker without Warner.
The 49ers are one of my favorite teams, and one of the few that I follow closely, and I have to say that Alex Smith finally proved his worth.

nepg
02-11-2010, 10:38 AM
picking a linebacker fifth overall is just not making a lick of sense. You can draft fine linebackers in the second round. There has got to be something more sensible you can spend that pick on.
Not for a 3-4. Name a good 3-4 ILB that was "found later"... Chances are if you find one, he's standing next to a first rounder or a really good veteran.

McClain is the best pick for the Chiefs in the first round.

scottyboy
02-11-2010, 10:40 AM
McClain falling to us is pretty nice, but Safety has got to be addressed early for the Giants Scott. I mean maybe in the 3rd, and maybe I'm being naive saying Osi and Kiwi will be back, healthy and ok and we don't need a DE badly, but that's just how I feel. Love Davis top 10 though!
needs some McCourty in the 2nd though!

thebow305
02-11-2010, 10:44 AM
I love the first round pick for the Phins, and feel like it's probably the most likely pick for Parcells at this point, but I'm not so sure it's the right one. I think it will be a tough decision for the FO if McClain and JPP are both available, and while I believe McClain is the better, safer pick, I could definitely see them going with JPP.

What is your opinion on Cam Wake? I think there's a chance Parcells opts elsewhere with this pick because he feels Wake could be his new DeMarcus Ware.

I HATE the LeFell pick in the 2nd, I just think he's way too similar to Derek Hagan from a few years ago, and I am not a fan at all.

Paul
02-11-2010, 10:46 AM
Mmmmm Earl Thomas.

Scotty D
02-11-2010, 10:52 AM
I knew Ryan Matthews was a first rounder.

vidae
02-11-2010, 11:11 AM
Ok Scott, say it with me: "With the 5th pick in the 2010 NFL draft, the Chiefs select Rolando McClain, LB from the University of Alabama.

Okung isn't a bad pick for the Chiefs. But you said it yourself, he's not a "franchise" LT. To me, McClain has the tools and potential to be a special LB. Whereas Okung is no Jake Long or no Ryan Clady. To me he'll be solid to good, but not special. IMO, had he come out last year, he probably get taken after Michael Oher.

And the Chiefs' offense got significantly better as the season went on. Jamal Charles amassed over 1100 yards in only 8 starts behind this offensive line. And Matt Cassel's sack totals reduced to half compared to the first half of the season.

When you look at the Chiefs' defense, it did not get better as the season went on. Week 15 of the NFL season, an unknown running back from the Cleveland Browns nearly set the NFL rushing record against the Chiefs' defense. And the Chiefs' defense was like 2nd from the bottom in sacks. The Chiefs' defense is far behind the offense.

Don't get me wrong, the Chiefs offense isn't settled. But this defense needs serious help. Moreso than the offense. If I'm Pioli I go McClain, Cody and Spikes. Or maybe McClain, Cody and Jerry Hughes. In an effort to improve a very poor defense as the defense is in far greater need of upgrades.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

In the last six games Branden Albert was about as good as he's ever been playing LT. The sack totals went down DRASTICALLY but it's because of the interior that they were high to begin with. RG and C are an absolute mess and if we improve THOSE areas of the line they'll give Matt the protection he needs.

As far as the draft goes, those are three solid players, but I'd prefer if it went something like this:

1. Rolando McClain - Defense playmaker and leader we CLEARLY lack. Our defensive line was mostly doing it's job, but our linebackers couldn't tackle. When you have Corey Mays and Demorrio Williams starting for you, something is wrong.

2. Vladimmir Ducasse - Could play either RT or RG in my opinion, but I'd put him at RG. The tackle situation last year wasn't as bad as people realize because they only look at the sack totals.

3. Eric Norwood - Our pass rush was once again at the bottom of the league. You can't win games if you can't stop the run or rush the passer. This draft needs to be all about defense. Our offense actually looked pretty good at the end of the year. Jamaal Charles ran behind our offensive line which continued to improve, but our defense might have gotten worse as the season went on.

I wouldn't be upset if we went Okung, Cody and Spikes, but it could be better for KC.

Babylon
02-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Seattle

Bradford, Mays and Charles Brown. Very luke warm on 2 of the 3, i'd go with:

Bulaga
Mays
Gerhart

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 11:35 AM
If this was a clever ploy to confuse me into submission well... it's working.

LOL! If it was, it didn't take much.



I don't have one.

I didn't think you did.

I'm not a chiefs fan, I don't know what your needs are,

And it makes perfect sense why you'd argue with some one who is and does. It would help if you had a more intimate knowledge of the subject matter to which you are arguing. <chuckling> That being the Chiefs and their positional needs. Seeing as you don't really have any and are relying on a very generic view of the draft and not looking into the specifics that relate to the Chiefs, I find it hard to see a lot of depth to your argument.

What I do know is that in no circumstance drafting an ILB at #5 is a good plan. Unless you're like a superbowl winning team that traded cleverly to get the pick and your only hole in the entire roster is at ILB, then I guess it would work. But other than that never.

Nothing in football is as simple and black and white as you stated. Lemme ask you something: Do you know who Corey Mays and Demorrio Williams are? Don't worry, not many Chiefs fan do either. They're actually the Chiefs' starting ILBs. They are backup and special team linebackers on their absolute BEST days. But alas, they started at ILB the entire year. And it showed big time.

Also, the Chiefs have NO leadership on defense. The closest would be Vrabel who no one knows whether or not will be on the team next season and is in the last days of his career even if he does return.

So yeah, typically you don't draft an ILB that high. Key word here is "typically". Not "never". But you typically don't draft 3-4 ends that high either. Specifically 3-4 ends like Tyson Jackson. You typically don't draft defensive tackles in the top 5 either but 2 DTs might go 1 and 2 this year. Typically that high of a pick goes towards QBs, LTs, pass rushers and shutdown corners. The Chiefs have prospects at those positions. They have NOTHING at ILB. Unless you consider Williams, Mays and Belcher as something.

So like I said, nothing is as black and white as you stated in your post. One of the tricks to the draft, IMO, is balancing need with value of the pick. The Chiefs have a lot of needs. ILB is one of them. And it's near, maybe even at, the top.

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 11:40 AM
I knew Ryan Matthews was a first rounder.
Dex Star McCluster > Ryan Mathews.

May the discussion start.

cdub11
02-11-2010, 11:46 AM
I love Earl Thomas to Dallas

DiG
02-11-2010, 11:55 AM
im down with vlad in rd 2 but very strongly against the clausen pick.

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 11:56 AM
I couldn't have said it better myself.

In the last six games Branden Albert was about as good as he's ever been playing LT. The sack totals went down DRASTICALLY but it's because of the interior that they were high to begin with. RG and C are an absolute mess and if we improve THOSE areas of the line they'll give Matt the protection he needs.

As far as the draft goes, those are three solid players, but I'd prefer if it went something like this:

1. Rolando McClain - Defense playmaker and leader we CLEARLY lack. Our defensive line was mostly doing it's job, but our linebackers couldn't tackle. When you have Corey Mays and Demorrio Williams starting for you, something is wrong.

2. Vladimmir Ducasse - Could play either RT or RG in my opinion, but I'd put him at RG. The tackle situation last year wasn't as bad as people realize because they only look at the sack totals.

3. Eric Norwood - Our pass rush was once again at the bottom of the league. You can't win games if you can't stop the run or rush the passer. This draft needs to be all about defense. Our offense actually looked pretty good at the end of the year. Jamaal Charles ran behind our offensive line which continued to improve, but our defense might have gotten worse as the season went on.

I wouldn't be upset if we went Okung, Cody and Spikes, but it could be better for KC.

Thanks

I wouldn't be upset with Okung either because I know he's going to be at least a solid tackle (although I don't ever see him being great). I just feel we'd get more bang for the pick, so to speak, with McClain because I feel he has the tools and potential to be a star.

And like you said and I mentioned earlier, the Chiefs' o-line isn't nearly as bad as many perceive. A lot of factors went into their poor performance earlier in the year. One of the biggest was the fact that they changed the entire offense, including the line protections, DAYS before the start of the regular season. And as mention, they got significantly better as the year went on. Not saying we don't need any line improvements because we do. Just saying that I don't think it's "priority one" like many like to believe.

Cody would fill the need of the massive 0-tech we need (assuming he could keep his weight and conditioning in check). And Spikes could be that physical presence in the middle we currently don't have.

Forenci
02-11-2010, 12:02 PM
McClain at 15 would be a dream come true as a Giants fans. I don't know if LB is our top need (it's certainly a notable need though) but if we can land McClain I would be thrilled. I like Ricky Sapp in the second round but like Scottyboy said I do think Osi will be hanging around. If he doesn't I think it's more likely we move Sintim to DE rather than draft a DE early in the draft.

Nonetheless, great job for the Giants and a pretty good job in general.

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 12:08 PM
If Belicheck passes on OLBs who will be immediate impact players who would be instant upgrades over the current talent in order to take Tebow I will eat my Pats winter hat and start the website FIREBILLBELICHECK.COM. I'll probably need a new TV, too, since I'll bust mine into a million little pieces.


Smokescreen or not, taking Tebow in round one while passing on Graham would be a massive draft failure. You even mention in your notes on Tebow that he shouldn't be drafted that high yet you go ahead and pick the Patriots as the team to do it?

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Thanks

I wouldn't be upset with Okung either because I know he's going to be at least a solid tackle (although I don't ever see him being great). I just feel we'd get more bang for the pick, so to speak, with McClain because I feel he has the tools and potential to be a star.

And like you said and I mentioned earlier, the Chiefs' o-line isn't nearly as bad as many perceive. A lot of factors went into their poor performance earlier in the year. One of the biggest was the fact that they changed the entire offense, including the line protections, DAYS before the start of the regular season. And as mention, they got significantly better as the year went on. Not saying we don't need any line improvements because we do. Just saying that I don't think it's "priority one" like many like to believe.

Cody would fill the need of the massive 0-tech we need (assuming he could keep his weight and conditioning in check). And Spikes could be that physical presence in the middle we currently don't have.


I went back and looked at some past drafts by Pioli and reanalyzing the Chiefs draft last year, he isn't afraid to reach for players at non-premiere positions early in a draft. Then, he nabs steals and BPAs later in the draft. Though I am staunchly against thinking the Chiefs could take McClain in the Top 5 this year, it could happen. Maybe a small trade down, which would make sense. Even if not, I could see them loving McClain and taking him at 5 IF the other options are diluted. I can't imagine the Chiefs taking him over Eric Berry for example (which you could have the same argument for).

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 12:16 PM
If Belicheck passes on OLBs who will be immediate impact players who would be instant upgrades over the current talent in order to take Tebow I will eat my Pats winter hat and start the website FIREBILLBELICHECK.COM. I'll probably need a new TV, too, since I'll bust mine into a million little pieces.


Smokescreen or not, taking Tebow in round one while passing on Graham would be a massive draft failure. You even mention in your notes on Tebow that he shouldn't be drafted that high yet you go ahead and pick the Patriots as the team to do it?


Graham is still a bit too highly touted here in terms of draft stock, lol, but we don't know what the Pats do this offseason. Likely first in line for Julius Peppers though, which would change all of this.

Also, pretty sure Scott has heard some things in terms of the Pats-Tebow possibility, it isn't out of the blue.

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 12:26 PM
^ I followed Scott's posts in the Tebow thread regarding the Pats interest. I just think it's a big stretch to say the team that most people regard as one of the premier drafters in the league would be the team to make the splash (belly flop) that is drafting Tebow in round one.

Even if Graham is too higly touted he's still ranked above Tebow on the board of any team considered shrewd when drafting. Which means the Pats ignore any realistic BPA and take Tebow at 22. I don't see it happening that way. Ever.

The Tebow interest could be smokescreen or it could be legitimate. Last year the Pats talked up Butler to anyone that cared to listen. It wasn't a smokescreen - but they didn't blow a 1st on him, either. And when it comes right down to it he may have actually been worth a first, whereas Tebow is not.

thetedginnshow
02-11-2010, 12:33 PM
I'm not a big fan of Tate and don't like Franks at all, but I can't complain about the position choices.

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 12:37 PM
^ I followed Scott's posts in the Tebow thread regarding the Pats interest. I just think it's a big stretch to say the team that most people regard as one of the premier drafters in the league would be the team to make the splash (belly flop) that is drafting Tebow in round one.

Even if Graham is too higly touted he's still ranked above Tebow on the board of any team considered shrewd when drafting. Which means the Pats ignore any realistic BPA and take Tebow at 22. I don't see it happening that way. Ever.

The Tebow interest could be smokescreen or it could be legitimate. Last year the Pats talked up Butler to anyone that cared to listen. It wasn't a smokescreen - but they didn't blow a 1st on him, either. And when it comes right down to it he may have actually been worth a first, whereas Tebow is not.

Not disagreeing with ya, but I think you just have to ignore all Patriots mock drafts from here to April, no joke. If there is ONE volatile team this season, it is the Patriots. They are moving, whether it be up or down. They are going to sign free agents. I think at this point you just have to go with your gut. Maybe it is Tebow. Maybe the Pats do draft Tebow at 22. Maybe later. Maybe not at all. Maybe they take a RB in this draft. Maybe Round 1. Maybe later. Maybe not at all.

There are a few teams we know certain positions they will target and nab. I don't think the Patriots are one of them.

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 12:38 PM
If Belicheck passes on OLBs who will be immediate impact players who would be instant upgrades over the current talent in order to take Tebow I will eat my Pats winter hat and start the website FIREBILLBELICHECK.COM. I'll probably need a new TV, too, since I'll bust mine into a million little pieces.

Smokescreen or not, taking Tebow in round one while passing on Graham would be a massive draft failure. You even mention in your notes on Tebow that he shouldn't be drafted that high yet you go ahead and pick the Patriots as the team to do it?
That's the mistery behind Tebow.

His football skills make him a 4th round pick.
His leadership and character make him a 1st round pick.

Bengals78
02-11-2010, 12:40 PM
We pass on Earl Thomas AND Nate Allen???
I get you think Roy is overrated but we have CHRIS CROCKER starting at FS.
I would be highly upset if we passed on Thomas.

Defsoul
02-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Not disagreeing with ya, but I think you just have to ignore all Patriots mock drafts from here to April, no joke. If there is ONE volatile team this season, it is the Patriots. They are moving, whether it be up or down. They are going to sign free agents. I think at this point you just have to go with your gut. Maybe it is Tebow. Maybe the Pats do draft Tebow at 22. Maybe later. Maybe not at all. Maybe they take a RB in this draft. Maybe Round 1. Maybe later. Maybe not at all.

There are a few teams we know certain positions they will target and nab. I don't think the Patriots are one of them.

And draftniks take advantage of it and make wild speculations to generate more views.

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 12:53 PM
Not disagreeing with ya, but I think you just have to ignore all Patriots mock drafts from here to April, no joke. If there is ONE volatile team this season, it is the Patriots. They are moving, whether it be up or down. They are going to sign free agents. I think at this point you just have to go with your gut. Maybe it is Tebow. Maybe the Pats do draft Tebow at 22. Maybe later. Maybe not at all. Maybe they take a RB in this draft. Maybe Round 1. Maybe later. Maybe not at all.

There are a few teams we know certain positions they will target and nab. I don't think the Patriots are one of them.
Fair enough. I just Scott is wrong because I really love my pats winter hat and never see it for sale anymore. lol

That's the mistery behind Tebow.

His football skills make him a 4th round pick.
His leadership and character make him a 1st round pick.

A very good point.

Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 01:05 PM
Just started going through this read (I'm on Page 1 of 4) but it strikes me how many people want Rolando McClain. Don't get me wrong he is a great player and I have him as one of the Top 5-7 prospects but the bottom line is it's rare to see an inside linebacker go that high these days. In fact, inside linebackers tend to drop if anything. Just ask DeMeco Ryans, Paul Posluszny, James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga. Not even Patrick Willis could crack the Top 10.

CC.SD
02-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Hey Scott if you are still around I am wondering if you could expand a little on Ryan Matthews v. Jonathan Dwyer as the grind-it-out type RBs. I noticed Dwyer got bounced a little and I've been high on him, although I admit all I've seen is highlights of both players for the most part. Thanks!

draftguru151
02-11-2010, 01:16 PM
Just started going through this read (I'm on Page 1 of 4) but it strikes me how many people want Rolando McClain. Don't get me wrong he is a great player and I have him as one of the Top 5-7 prospects but the bottom line is it's rare to see an inside linebacker go that high these days. In fact, inside linebackers tend to drop if anything. Just ask DeMeco Ryans, Paul Posluszny, James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga. Not even Patrick Willis could crack the Top 10.

The Dolphins were starting Akin Ayodele and Reggie Torbor at ILB at one point last year. Dolphins desperately need an ILB and someone to lead the defense.
Rush backer is pretty deep this year and not as big of a need as ILB. Mayo went 10, Willis went 11, 12 seems like great value. :)

I can very easily see JPP or a rush backer at 12, and I don't really buy McClain at 5 (though I wouldn't doubt it either, they took a 3-4 DE at 3 last year :p ) but at 12 the value, need and talent all match up.

Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 01:18 PM
I can't help but feel like Brandon Graham and Dan Williams will go a good bit higher than where you currently have them.

Not sure about Graham going much higher than the 20's but I almost put Williams at #12.

steelernation77
02-11-2010, 01:20 PM
I have a hard time seeing the Steelers taking an OLB in the 2nd, when it is arguably our strongest position. The team has too many needs to take a depth pick in the second. I think a CB like Wilson is more likely in that scenario.

Grizzlegom
02-11-2010, 01:21 PM
The Dolphins were starting Akin Ayodele and Reggie Torbor at ILB at one point last year. Dolphins desperately need an ILB and someone to lead the defense.
Rush backer is pretty deep this year and not as big of a need as ILB. Mayo went 10, Willis went 11, 12 seems like great value. :)

I can very easily see JPP or a rush backer at 12, and I don't really buy McClain at 5 (though I wouldn't doubt it either, they took a 3-4 DE at 3 last year :p ) but at 12 the value, need and talent all match up.

^ that. 10 chars

KCStud
02-11-2010, 01:29 PM
As a Chiefs fan, I severely doubt we pick Okung at 5. Albert is just as talented as he is and is more proven. He had a very good rookie year, then was told to lose 30 pounds and playing in a different offense. He gave up 9 sacks this year, but if you look than you'll see that 7 of them were given up in the first 10 games. He had a hard time adjusting, but you could definitely see that Albert became comfortable. Another factor is Cassel holding on to the ball forever. I counted 3 sacks where Cassel held the ball for at least 6 seconds. Not Albert's fault there.

At 5 I really wouldn't be surprised to see KC select McClain. We need leaders and he is in a position of need for us. I can't see us drafting Cody either. Haley is VERY strict on players being out of shape. He was all over Dorsey in training camp. I just don't see him being a fit for us. I could however see a trade down with a team like Buffalo trying to get Bradford. and then KC selecting McClain.

And why are people saying it is wrong for KC to take McClain at 5 whenever Scott himself says that Okung is not a "franchise" LT. Would you rather take a LT who isn't franchise worthy when you have a good young one already or would you rather take the best LB and smartest football player in the draft at a big position of need? The answer should be simple

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 01:30 PM
I have a hard time seeing the Steelers taking an OLB in the 2nd, when it is arguably our strongest position. The team has too many needs to take a depth pick in the second. I think a CB like Wilson is more likely in that scenario.

Steelers don't have any depth at OLB behind Harrison/Woodley. Harrison likely will be gone in a few years, the Steelers are definitely looking to upgrade at LB.

rockio42
02-11-2010, 01:31 PM
thank you scott for two things...1) Suh to the Rams...its beautiful, its sexy, and its damn likely to happen and 2) putting Ryan Matthews in the 1st, I think hes very similar to Matt Forte and believe that he is the most complete RB in the draft.

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 01:31 PM
thank you scott for two things...1) Suh to the Rams...its beautiful, its sexy, and its damn likely to happen and 2) putting Ryan Matthews in the 1st, I think hes very similar to Matt Forte and believe that he is the most complete RB in the draft.

The pass catching abilities of Forte and Matthews are very different, but past that, not a bad comparison.

wordofi
02-11-2010, 01:38 PM
Pouncey over everson griffen for the saints doesnt make me happy but getting washington in the second partially makes up for it.

In my opinion(!!!!) Pouncey doesnt have good value late in the first and although center is similar in need-value as DEnd the Saints first rounder has to be defensive. Besides that If you would give the saints Griffen you would have the first two picks of my Saints dream draft as displayed in my sig ;).

Seriously you were on such a roll(two previous years) for the saints untill the last two mocks :(.

Whether Pouncey goes to the Saints or not, I think he goes in the 1st round.

Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 01:42 PM
And draftniks take advantage of it and make wild speculations to generate more views.

I can honestly say that I've never done anything controversial in my mocks over the last 13 years in order to generate more traffic or views for the site.

RealityCheck
02-11-2010, 01:43 PM
I can honestly say that I've never done anything controversial in my mocks over the last 13 years in order to generate more traffic or views for the site.
Exactly. Scott doesn't need to put Rileyzzz Cooperzzzz at #1 to make him famous.

Scott Wright
02-11-2010, 01:45 PM
Hey Scott if you are still around I am wondering if you could expand a little on Ryan Matthews v. Jonathan Dwyer as the grind-it-out type RBs. I noticed Dwyer got bounced a little and I've been high on him, although I admit all I've seen is highlights of both players for the most part. Thanks!

Personally, I think Dwyers is underrated and Mathews is overrated. With that said I know a lot of NFL people really like Mathews and word is he's going to kill it in workouts.

Jakey
02-11-2010, 01:45 PM
Steelers don't have any depth at OLB behind Harrison/Woodley. Harrison likely will be gone in a few years, the Steelers are definitely looking to upgrade at LB.

Completely agree, no depth at LB at all besides Keyaron Fox, and he is solely an ILB. I like Norwood allot, and who better for him to learn behind than James Harrison. I also think he could play some ILB, and with James Farrior slowing down fast, that could be a need sooner than most think.

wicket
02-11-2010, 01:45 PM
Whether Pouncey goes to the Saints or not, I think he goes in the 1st round.

I wouldnt even be all that happy if he went to the saints in the second. I think drafting him before the mid third is a reach

RaiderNation
02-11-2010, 01:51 PM
Loving the Anthony Davis pick. I dont understand the Chad Jones pick. If Al wants a freak safety he would choose Taylor Mays.

Babylon
02-11-2010, 01:54 PM
I can honestly say that I've never done anything controversial in my mocks over the last 13 years in order to generate more traffic or views for the site.

Leave that to us.

rockio42
02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
The pass catching abilities of Forte and Matthews are very different, but past that, not a bad comparison.

Yah, that was something I kinda realized might separate the comparison but in the way of running style but I think Matthews catching could definitely improve (his pass-catching ability kinda reminds me of what Cadillac was like coming out)

steelernation77
02-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Steelers don't have any depth at OLB behind Harrison/Woodley. Harrison likely will be gone in a few years, the Steelers are definitely looking to upgrade at LB.

That's true, but as you said Harrison will be gone "in a few years." An OLB could be taken in later rounds for development. There are more pressing needs that should be addressed in the early rounds.

Hines
02-11-2010, 02:19 PM
That's true, but as you said Harrison will be gone "in a few years." An OLB could be taken in later rounds for development. There are more pressing needs that should be addressed in the early rounds.

Norwood could play OLB(we need depth) and ILB(we really need depth). It's a good pick.

FloridaFootball
02-11-2010, 02:21 PM
Really like Jimmy Clausen @ #4 and OT in the 2nd. Good job.

twizbuck
02-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Kind of frustrating for me to see the Bengals take Asante over two Safeties I'd prefer (Thomas in the 1st, Allen in the 2nd). :(

Oh well. Solid Bengals draft I suppose. I'm just not as high on Gresham as most others. Now, if we got Thomas in the first and Gronkowski in the second, I'd run around my neighborhood naked. :D

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 02:29 PM
That's true, but as you said Harrison will be gone "in a few years." An OLB could be taken in later rounds for development. There are more pressing needs that should be addressed in the early rounds.

Well, remember, their heir apparent, Bruce Davis, did not pan out and you look how early they drafted to develop him. May need a higher pick this time around.

FlyingElvis
02-11-2010, 02:33 PM
I wouldnt even be all that happy if he went to the saints in the second. I think drafting him before the mid third is a reach
I would mind NE making that reach with their final second round pick. Then again, NE doesn't have a 3rd round pick.

Kind of frustrating for me to see the Bengals take Asante over two Safeties I'd prefer (Thomas in the 1st, Allen in the 2nd). :(

Oh well. Solid Bengals draft I suppose. I'm just not as high on Gresham as most others. Now, if we got Thomas in the first and Gronkowski in the second, I'd run around my neighborhood naked. :D

You mean you don't do that anyway? That ain't livin', man.

twizbuck
02-11-2010, 02:35 PM
I would mind NE making that reach with their final second round pick. Then again, NE doesn't have a 3rd round pick.



You mean you don't do that anyway? That ain't livin', man.

I save it for special occasions. This would count as one. 8)

Cicero
02-11-2010, 02:40 PM
Am I the only one convinced that instead of desperately wanting Taylor Mays because he coached him that Pete Carroll is more aware of his limitations and shortcomings than anyone else?

WorldBFree
02-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Norwood could play OLB(we need depth) and ILB(we really need depth). It's a good pick.

No it isn't, not when the Steelers are in desperate need of a safety. You can draft an OLB later in the draft. The Steelers can not bring back their same group of safeties next year. You can't just throw up your hands and say oh well if Troy P gets hurt again. Plus Clark showed he is limited as a safety. Heck, the Steelers should take another corner before OLB.

Safety,OL,Corner, NG...all of those positions are bigger needs than OLB.

KaneMarko
02-11-2010, 02:48 PM
Just started going through this read (I'm on Page 1 of 4) but it strikes me how many people want Rolando McClain. Don't get me wrong he is a great player and I have him as one of the Top 5-7 prospects but the bottom line is it's rare to see an inside linebacker go that high these days. In fact, inside linebackers tend to drop if anything. Just ask DeMeco Ryans, Paul Posluszny, James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga. Not even Patrick Willis could crack the Top 10.

Very true, Scott. ILBs typically don't go that high. But neither do safeties and you have Eric Berry going number 3.

Like I said in one of my previous posts, nothing is completely black and white when it comes to teams in the draft. Draft priorities change when you factor in team needs, system, importance of certain players in a given system, etc.

Yeah, it's not typical. But I don't think it's out of the question at all for McClain to go pretty high in this draft. Just like how defensive tackles typically don't go top 5. Yet Suh and McCoy are potentially special talents that may go 1 and 2 in the draft.

Halsey
02-11-2010, 03:08 PM
So Kindle is strictly a DE in a 4-3, or might he also be able to play OLB in a 4-3? It just seems the Falcons would be looking for a bigger DE to start opposite Abraham. I know there are teams that will start 2 'smaller' DE's, but the ideal seems to be having a bigger guy who can stuff the run well on one side.

eagles6606
02-11-2010, 03:16 PM
So Kindle is strictly a DE in a 4-3, or might he also be able to play OLB in a 4-3? It just seems the Falcons would be looking for a bigger DE to start opposite Abraham. I know there are teams that will start 2 'smaller' DE's, but the ideal seems to be having a bigger guy who can stuff the run well on one side.

Kindle's best fit is really as a 3-4 OLB

Nalej
02-11-2010, 03:22 PM
Kindle's best fit is really as a 3-4 OLB

exactly... in New England perhaps?!

steelernation77
02-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Well, remember, their heir apparent, Bruce Davis, did not pan out and you look how early they drafted to develop him. May need a higher pick this time around.

Davis didn't but Porter and Gildon were both 3rd rounders.

I'm not denying that OLB is a position that could use added depth, I'm merely pointing out that a 2nd round corner or FS are bigger needs. I don't see why the organization would be satisfied going in to next season with the same people in the secondary competing for meaningful playing time. The Steelers have their definite starters at OLB for the next few years determined. CB is a position without definite starters, as is FS. Add concerns with the longevity of the D-linemen and the shaky play of the o-line, and there just are too many holes to justify taking an OLB that high.

Babylon
02-11-2010, 03:41 PM
Am I the only one convinced that instead of desperately wanting Taylor Mays because he coached him that Pete Carroll is more aware of his limitations and shortcomings than anyone else?

It probably works both ways, the thing we do know is Seattle's scouts dont have to spend a lot of time trying to get to know him.

Cicero
02-11-2010, 04:12 PM
It probably works both ways, the thing we do know is Seattle's scouts dont have to spend a lot of time trying to get to know him.

Well I guess you can pray Pete loves him and I can pray Pete thinks he's a second rounder. :D

thetedginnshow
02-11-2010, 05:03 PM
Am I the only one convinced that instead of desperately wanting Taylor Mays because he coached him that Pete Carroll is more aware of his limitations and shortcomings than anyone else?

I think Carroll will be vehemently against drafting any USC guys unless they happen to be late round guys. I really don't see it making sense for them to draft a guy like Mays in the first considering their more pressing needs (IMO anyway). Washingtonians shouldn't want Mays anyway. He rejected UW!

fenikz
02-11-2010, 05:05 PM
campbell + hughes = amazing

Babylon
02-11-2010, 05:10 PM
I think Carroll will be vehemently against drafting any USC guys unless they happen to be late round guys. I really don't see it making sense for them to draft a guy like Mays in the first considering their more pressing needs (IMO anyway). Washingtonians shouldn't want Mays anyway. He rejected UW!

We're very forgiving around here.

JFLO
02-11-2010, 05:12 PM
Vikings mock is decent, but I would jizz in my pants if we got Dan Williams and Daryl Washington instead of Bowman.

Hines
02-11-2010, 05:34 PM
No it isn't, not when the Steelers are in desperate need of a safety. You can draft an OLB later in the draft. The Steelers can not bring back their same group of safeties next year. You can't just throw up your hands and say oh well if Troy P gets hurt again. Plus Clark showed he is limited as a safety. Heck, the Steelers should take another corner before OLB.

Safety,OL,Corner, NG...all of those positions are bigger needs than OLB.

Davis didn't but Porter and Gildon were both 3rd rounders.

I'm not denying that OLB is a position that could use added depth, I'm merely pointing out that a 2nd round corner or FS are bigger needs. I don't see why the organization would be satisfied going in to next season with the same people in the secondary competing for meaningful playing time. The Steelers have their definite starters at OLB for the next few years determined. CB is a position without definite starters, as is FS. Add concerns with the longevity of the D-linemen and the shaky play of the o-line, and there just are too many holes to justify taking an OLB that high.

We had Clark trying to cover for *** AND Carter, of course any human being will not do as well. If we have Troy back, he's a whole lot better. He played a lot more man to man this season where his forte is playing centerfield.

Safety is deep this draft. We could pick up a stud S in rounds 3 or 4 and they will be a starter for us sooner than later.

I don't think CB is a big need. We just drafted two guys and have ***. Maybe signing a vet corner would be ideal ala Leigh Bodden, but corner isn't that high of a need. OL could be the pick, but Scott picked a OL the first round. Tomlin loves versatility and that is what Norwood brings. He can play OLB and ILB. LB is a very big need for us. Farrior is slowing down and he cost us a game or two (look at the first Baltimore game).

I think we sign Hampton and I do not feel confident with Cody and his weight problems. Brian Price does not fit our system, Dan Williams could be gone by 18. There is Cam Thomas in the third-fourth round and a few guys we can develop later.

I think it's a very good draft.

wonderbredd24
02-11-2010, 05:41 PM
The Browns 2nd round pick doesn't make sense.

First, there are better players at bigger positions of need on the board.

Second, the Browns already have a smallish-speed back in Jerome Harrison, so if you want to give us a running back, Jonathan Dwyer makes far more sense as a complement.

Third, Jahvid Best's concussion history and the NFL's new focus on concussion make this a precarious pick as it remains to be seen where the NFL is going with this. I think he's gonna fall as a result.

Shane P. Hallam
02-11-2010, 05:43 PM
We had Clark trying to cover for *** AND Carter, of course any human being will not do as well. If we have Troy back, he's a whole lot better. He played a lot more man to man this season where his forte is playing centerfield.

Safety is deep this draft. We could pick up a stud S in rounds 3 or 4 and they will be a starter for us sooner than later.

I don't think CB is a big need. We just drafted two guys and have ***. Maybe signing a vet corner would be ideal ala Leigh Bodden, but corner isn't that high of a need. OL could be the pick, but Scott picked a OL the first round. Tomlin loves versatility and that is what Norwood brings. He can play OLB and ILB. LB is a very big need for us. Farrior is slowing down and he cost us a game or two (look at the first Baltimore game).

I think we sign Hampton and I do not feel confident with Cody and his weight problems. Brian Price does not fit our system, Dan Williams could be gone by 18. There is Cam Thomas in the third-fourth round and a few guys we can develop later.

I think it's a very good draft.

Rumor is Steelers really like Price as a player and could draft him despite the fit.

Matthew Jones
02-11-2010, 05:46 PM
Man, I can't get over how awful the Tim Tebow pick is. This guy is an absolute mess mechanically - can't take snaps from under center, footwork is terrible, has a very slow delivery, no history making any sort of reads, scattershot accuracy at the Senior Bowl. What do you think we're going to draft him for, to play tight end? Fullback? Brady has said he wants to play ten more seasons and I think at the least he'll be in New England for four or five.

The Patriots have no interest in running the wildcat offense, just ask Robert Kraft. He mentioned in interviews while Michael Vick was coming out of prison that he doesn't see the wildcat as a viable offense in New England because it takes the ball out of the hands of the best player on the team. There are no situations in which the Patriots are going to do better taking the ball away from Tom Brady and giving it to Tim Tebow. Are you really going to draft a guy to come in and play four or five plays a game for his entire rookie deal?

Hines
02-11-2010, 05:57 PM
Rumor is Steelers really like Price as a player and could draft him despite the fit.

If so, I can see us transitioning to a 43 then. I do not think he is a 34 NT. He is not a run stopper.

eagles6606
02-11-2010, 06:20 PM
It's pretty simple for the Patriots. They got blown out in the first round of the playoffs. They clearly have many needs they have to address. Lucky for them they have 4 picks in the first two rounds. Instead of looking at their first three picks as a chance to mess around, they need to hit on these picks if they want to be super bowl contenders again. Tim Tebow doesn't make one bit of sense for the Patriots. If they wanted to run the wildcat, they could have used Julian Edelman or Kevin Falk. They didn't, because they have one of the best QBs in the NFL and they don't want to take the ball out of his hands. If they decide to run the wildcat next year, they can use Edelman or trade for Troy Smith. Now the only real reason the Pats would pick Tebow is for him to be the QB of the future. The only problem is the future probobally isn't for at least 5-6 years. Putting aside the fact that Tebow has a very uphill battle to become a successfull QB in the NFL, no one should be drafting for 6 years in the future. If the Patriots want to be Super Bowl Champions again, they need to get contributions from their top 4 picks in the immediate future. If I were the Pats my draft would look like this:
1. Jared Odrick
2. Jerry Hughes
2. Brandon Spikes
2. Nate Allen

nepg
02-11-2010, 06:23 PM
But you typically don't draft 3-4 ends that high either.

Sure you do. Just hasn't been any available or any 3-4 teams picking in that range in awhile... Seymour was drafted 6th, Warren 13th... One of the safest and most effective positions to draft high.

nepg
02-11-2010, 06:29 PM
Just started going through this read (I'm on Page 1 of 4) but it strikes me how many people want Rolando McClain. Don't get me wrong he is a great player and I have him as one of the Top 5-7 prospects but the bottom line is it's rare to see an inside linebacker go that high these days. In fact, inside linebackers tend to drop if anything. Just ask DeMeco Ryans, Paul Posluszny, James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga. Not even Patrick Willis could crack the Top 10.

Those guys you mentioned didn't have the size or intangibles that McClain brings (aside from Willis). Also, it's not usually the case that an ILB like McClain would be the best possible pick for so many teams.

Just in the Top 15, he's the best possible pick for the Chiefs, Browns, Broncos, Dolphins, and Giants. His intangibles are through the roof, and he's a Nick Saban player (a lot of those teams have Saban connections).

coordinator0
02-11-2010, 07:41 PM
Arrelious Benn and Rob Gronkowski?

http://www.clker.com/cliparts/7/0/2/7/1195423550187356949molumen_red_approved_stamp.svg. med.png

Joe Flacco would be a happy man. Alalu could get some consideration in the second round as well, but Gronkowski is probably the better player and Ozzie always goes for that.

thebow305
02-11-2010, 08:20 PM
Personally, I think Dwyers is underrated and Mathews is overrated. With that said I know a lot of NFL people really like Mathews and word is he's going to kill it in workouts.

The more I see of Mathews, the more I think he reminds me soooooooo much of Donald Brown from last year. Basically the same player IMO, and should go around the same area as well.

holt_bruce81
02-11-2010, 09:33 PM
I'm not that high on Colt. Plenty of other better options for the Rams in the 2nd IMO.

hagy34
02-11-2010, 11:26 PM
Dan Williams is fine. I'm a fan of Chad Jones at this point though....

bergo23
02-12-2010, 06:27 AM
Personally, I think Dwyers is underrated and Mathews is overrated. With that said I know a lot of NFL people really like Mathews and word is he's going to kill it in workouts.

Why wouldn't you think AJ would take Dwyer then? Mathews may run a little faster than Dwyer at the combine, but we need a tackle breaker, and Dwyer is that guy.

I don't hate the Matthews pick, but if Dan Williams is sitting there it may be hard to pass up a potential Jamal Replacement.

Also I like Veldheer in the second for the Bolts as a RT.

Don Vito
02-12-2010, 06:36 AM
I would cry if we took Tebow in the first. I'm sure he would have the chance to become a great player in NE, but I'm not a fan and we have several other more pressing needs. Brandon Graham is available, I know BB likes taller OLB's but Graham makes so much sense there. Everson Griffin could work too.

Dwyer is OK in the second, I am a big fan of his but again we need help at OLB. Our pass rush is the clear cut top need. You gave us Koa Misi after that, which is a pretty good pick. Could be a reach but we are known to do that at times. Aaron Hernandez is a pretty nice pickup, we need to add another weapon. He is sort of one dimensional but his talent is through the roof.

YoJoeBucsFan
02-12-2010, 08:12 AM
I don't like the Eric Berry pick at all..... He is way overrated.

GoRavens
02-12-2010, 08:50 AM
I don't like the Eric Berry pick at all..... He is way overrated.

I don't bye into all this "OH HE'S THE NEXT ED REED" hype at all.. but he's still deserving to go in the top 10.

Flyboy
02-12-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm not sure how I'd feel if we selected Pouncey.. I mean, it's obvious that the center is the weakest position of our offensive line (when counting Brown in the lineup instead of Bushrod), but it's not a glaring need. I really love the Washington pick at the end of the second, but I feel that adding a DT or OLB would be a much better selection. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if we select a RB at the end of the first round if we are unable to bring back Reggie Bush for some reason.

vikes_28
02-12-2010, 10:47 AM
I like the vikings mock. I think that's a lot of talent for where the Vikings pick. Seems like you went BPA, well done.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2010, 11:25 AM
It's pretty simple for the Patriots. They got blown out in the first round of the playoffs. They clearly have many needs they have to address. Lucky for them they have 4 picks in the first two rounds. Instead of looking at their first three picks as a chance to mess around, they need to hit on these picks if they want to be super bowl contenders again. Tim Tebow doesn't make one bit of sense for the Patriots. If they wanted to run the wildcat, they could have used Julian Edelman or Kevin Falk. They didn't, because they have one of the best QBs in the NFL and they don't want to take the ball out of his hands. If they decide to run the wildcat next year, they can use Edelman or trade for Troy Smith. Now the only real reason the Pats would pick Tebow is for him to be the QB of the future. The only problem is the future probobally isn't for at least 5-6 years. Putting aside the fact that Tebow has a very uphill battle to become a successfull QB in the NFL, no one should be drafting for 6 years in the future. If the Patriots want to be Super Bowl Champions again, they need to get contributions from their top 4 picks in the immediate future. If I were the Pats my draft would look like this:
1. Jared Odrick
2. Jerry Hughes
2. Brandon Spikes
2. Nate Allen

Exactly. Substitute a G/C/RT for Allen since that is the Patriots deepest position and stocked with solid talent - Meriweather, Chung, Sanders & McGowan - and there would be a lot of happy Pats fans here.

I still wouldn't mind Tebow with that last 2nd. I wouldn't love it, but I could understand a luxury pick there for a guy who would, were he to correct his QB flaws, be an incredible player for a long time.

Personally, I think it's a giant BS smokescreen. Hoyer was incredibly impressive as a UFDA and I can't see BB messing with the opportunity to have a "Look at me developing & winning with UFDA players" moment.

bored of education
02-12-2010, 11:34 AM
Dear Scott Wright,

I am going to call into question the logic and rationale of the Chiefs picking a rookie left guard in the first round. I feel as if the progress that Albert has made would diminished if KC were to draft the likes of Okung. I think, where Albert is now is greater than Okung would be next year as a rookie. Albert has shown signs especillaly in the last 6 weeks of this past season that he has what it takes to be the franchise LT. I have heard many pundits say that the Chiefs would be upgrading two positions by drafting Okung/Davis. I think that is wrong. Neither Okung nor Davis have the experience that Albert has at LT and drafting one of those two to start at LT would actually be downgrading that position. KC would kick Albert over to RT? A position that he hasn't played to date. The would stun the progress of Albert at the position. That would actually only upgrade one position, RT.

Thanks

Scott Wright
02-12-2010, 12:55 PM
Dear Scott Wright,

I am going to call into question the logic and rationale of the Chiefs picking a rookie left guard in the first round. I feel as if the progress that Albert has made would diminished if KC were to draft the likes of Okung. I think, where Albert is now is greater than Okung would be next year as a rookie. Albert has shown signs especillaly in the last 6 weeks of this past season that he has what it takes to be the franchise LT. I have heard many pundits say that the Chiefs would be upgrading two positions by drafting Okung/Davis. I think that is wrong. Neither Okung nor Davis have the experience that Albert has at LT and drafting one of those two to start at LT would actually be downgrading that position. KC would kick Albert over to RT? A position that he hasn't played to date. The would stun the progress of Albert at the position. That would actually only upgrade one position, RT.

Thanks

That's fine, leave Albert at left tackle and play Okung on the right side.

bored of education
02-12-2010, 12:57 PM
That's fine, leave Albert at left tackle and play Okung on the right side.

you just owned me.

PACKmanN
02-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Ted has said he would not take a CB shorter than 6'0. He passed on Flowers acouple of years ago, even though he fits the mold of CBs we want, because of his height.

nepg
02-12-2010, 01:13 PM
That's fine, leave Albert at left tackle and play Okung on the right side.
OT just isn't the need it's perceived to be in KC. Sure, they could upgrade from O'Callaghan at RT, but he did his job well in the second half.

The main problems with Chiefs' OL is the interior. Waters was a penalty machine, Niswanger doesn't belong in the NFL as a starter, and no one they tried at RG worked. The offense played increasingly better as the season went along.

And to bring up a point that you, yourself have made before, you don't have to have a lot invested in the OL to win the Super Bowl. Look at the Patriots (x3), Steelers (x2), and Giants... Not to mention teams that have gotten there with garbage OLs like the Cardinals last year... And most of those teams still had great offenses.

Note that 4 of those teams (Pats x3 + Cardinals) were OC'd by Haley & Weis. Weis is a master of getting the ball out of the QB's hands behind a bad OL (even with bad WRs).

The two biggest needs on the Chiefs are C and ILB. Most of the team's problems are solved with upgrades at these two positions. Most of the pressure and sacks came from the interior, and the Chiefs will be able to have a lot more looks and use their current personnel to put more pressure on the QB with a star ILB.

McClain & Pouncey, imo.

armageddon
02-12-2010, 01:32 PM
The Rams will be taking Sam Bradford with their 1st pick. He's the best QB to come out in years, yes, better than Stafford and Sanchez.

FlyingElvis
02-12-2010, 01:57 PM
The Rams will be taking Sam Bradford with their 1st pick. He's the best QB to come out in years, yes, better than Stafford and Sanchez.
I'm surprised there are so few here saying this. If Bradford checks out physically he has to be considered a lock at #1.


Back to the positive you go . . .

BeerBaron
02-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Me being dumb, ignore.

Shane P. Hallam
02-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Perhaps this was already addressed, but it strikes me as odd that Weatherspoon is mentioned as a possibility to the Saints at #32 but then doesn't go in the 2nd round at all....really?

I'd definitely take him in most cases over Washington, Bowman or Spikes who all go in the 2nd round.

Weatherspoon went #24 to the Eagles in Scott's Mock.

BeerBaron
02-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Weatherspoon went #24 to the Eagles in Scott's Mock.

I just found that....nvm me then.

armageddon
02-12-2010, 02:50 PM
I am a big Mizzou fan, and Weatherspoon is overatted big time. He takes way too many plays off. The Rams GM even said this. He said he was disappointed in him.

D-Unit
02-12-2010, 02:51 PM
Earl Thomas at 27.... I think a lot of Texas Longhorns/Dallas Cowboys fans would love that.

Question to forum posters: Is this a real possibility?

Shane P. Hallam
02-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Earl Thomas at 27.... I think a lot of Texas Longhorns/Dallas Cowboys fans would love that.

Question to forum posters: Is this a real possibility?

Yes. A sophomore safety with big time fundamental issues just isn't going to go Top 20 IMO. Unless he shows some exceptional talent at the combine, I think he is too big of a risk that high. I have him going to the Eagles in my latest mock, and I still think that is too high.

RaidersInYoFace
02-13-2010, 01:47 PM
Not a very good draft for Oakland Scott

1) Cable and staff have said numerous times they have been pleased with Mario Henderson - and rightfully so, he didnt let up a sack till week 9 - he struggled a little down the stretch but that was because Gallery went out for the year. If you watch Mario play - you'll see he's one of the most underated LT's in the NFL - You can also argue 1/2 of Oaklands sack totals were the direct result of Jaba the Chosen - His slow decision making and awful footwork caused more sacks than the OL - I dont see drafting a RT aat #8

Oakland can grab a RT in rd 3- as it stands now-- Mario Henderson has the LT position locked down

2) A safety in rd 2? Aint gonna happen -- Tyvone Branch led all safeties and every CB in tackles-- thats right - he had 98-- more than every Safety and every CB in the NFL - Tyvone Branch is a very solid player

Michael Huff was 3rd in FS in pass defended. He's cmon last year- it took him a couple of years but he's finally becoming the player he is capable of being and why the Raiders took him at #7 - And dont forget Michael Mitchell - who really showed flashes of being a great safety in this league and a hand picked Al Davis pick.

Nope- you wont see a safety in rd 2

The Raiders are very high on Koa Misi - and word is they are gonna take him in rd 2 - Idont like the pick - but its the word I hear - he's a OLB they covet and a position the need- Change your 2nd rd pick to Koa Misi and you'll look like a genius April 30th

MikeTeel
02-13-2010, 01:53 PM
Is Charles Brown really worth a high second round pick? I didn't know his value was that high. I don't think Carroll will reach on a player just because he went to USC, but I also don't know a lot about Brown.

Babylon
02-13-2010, 04:49 PM
Is Charles Brown really worth a high second round pick? I didn't know his value was that high. I don't think Carroll will reach on a player just because he went to USC, but I also don't know a lot about Brown.

Charles Brown to Seattle doesnt make sense to me because i see them taking a tackle in the first.

Brown's immediate problem is a lack of bulk, he came to SC as a TE and seems to have a hard time getting up to the 300lb level. Add to that he gets pushed back at the point of attack and i think he is severly overrated. If he played at Kansas or a Texas Tech (trying to think of less heralded programs) i think we'd be looking at a 4th round pick.

Scott Wright
02-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Charles Brown to Seattle doesnt make sense to me because i see them taking a tackle in the first.

Brown's immediate problem is a lack of bulk, he came to SC as a TE and seems to have a hard time getting up to the 300lb level. Add to that he gets pushed back at the point of attack and i think he is severly overrated. If he played at Kansas or a Texas Tech (trying to think of less heralded programs) i think we'd be looking at a 4th round pick.

Keep in mind that Seattle hired Alex Gibbs, a.k.a. The Zone Blocking Guru, as their offensive line coach so they aren't going to necessarily be looking for a 330 pound blocker. In fact, knowing that Gibbs can turn later picks into very good players in that scheme could make the Seahawks feel even more comfortable in passing on a left tackle in the first round.

Brown Leader
02-14-2010, 01:21 PM
Scott-I think it's more likely to see Holmgrem & Heckert attempt to build the best young O-Line in the league then the best set of young corners. [Arguably- Cincy CBs already hold that down.]


The Browns 2nd round pick doesn't make sense.

First, there are better players at bigger positions of need on the board.

Second, the Browns already have a smallish-speed back in Jerome Harrison, so if you want to give us a running back, Jonathan Dwyer makes far more sense as a complement.

Third, Jahvid Best's concussion history and the NFL's new focus on concussion make this a precarious pick as it remains to be seen where the NFL is going with this. I think he's gonna fall as a result.

Maby the first time I've agreed with w24 but if Harrison is resigned I don't see the value in drafting Best. Also think the concussions will play a factor, perhaps a drop from high to late 2nd?

keylime_5
02-14-2010, 01:25 PM
I could dig Jahvid Best in round 2. He would be a higher pick if not for injury issues. You need 2 runningbacks in this league and Harrison isn't a sure thing. That said RB isn't a big need for us compared to RT, RG, S, QB, TE, and even WR (though I doubt we get another 2nd round WR after taking 2 last year). My gut says we take Haden in round 1 if he's there and an OL in round 2.

grignotte
02-15-2010, 09:47 AM
In my latest mock I've got the Browns taking Dez Bryant at #7. I know they took 2 receivers in the second round last year, but none of them as as much talent as Bryant. S or CB are also strong possibilities here but I guess Berry will be off the board when they pick. In the end it might be Haden or Bryant, considering value and need.

What do you think about this ?

Mr.Regular
02-15-2010, 09:53 AM
Charles Brown to Seattle doesnt make sense to me because i see them taking a tackle in the first.

Brown's immediate problem is a lack of bulk, he came to SC as a TE and seems to have a hard time getting up to the 300lb level. Add to that he gets pushed back at the point of attack and i think he is severly overrated. If he played at Kansas or a Texas Tech (trying to think of less heralded programs) i think we'd be looking at a 4th round pick.
Charles Brown is a perfect ZBS LT. Add in the Pete Carroll factor, and the guy is pretty much a perfect fit for Seattle.

I also may be in the minority here, but I think Brown is a phenomenal prospect. I wouldn't mind the Packers taking him at 23 to be honest. His passblocking is really good, he kicks out well in the run game, and I've seen him excel at the second level. Most of his weaknesses (i.e. getting pushed back) all seem to stem from his lack of bulk. If he gets up to 300, give or take, I think he'll be a great LT.

scar988
02-15-2010, 10:51 AM
Sergio Kindle to Atlanta? he doesn't fit the scheme or the character we look for here. bad pick.

PACKmanN
02-15-2010, 10:57 AM
Keep in mind that Seattle hired Alex Gibbs, a.k.a. The Zone Blocking Guru, as their offensive line coach so they aren't going to necessarily be looking for a 330 pound blocker. In fact, knowing that Gibbs can turn later picks into very good players in that scheme could make the Seahawks feel even more comfortable in passing on a left tackle in the first round.

Plus I read somewhere when he got fired from ATL, i believe, the linemen hated him because he always excepeted them to be in the 280-290 range at the start of TC.

scar988
02-15-2010, 11:04 AM
Plus I read somewhere when he got fired from ATL, i believe, the linemen hated him because he always excepeted them to be in the 280-290 range at the start of TC.

very very true. the year later when they could gain the weight back the OL looked tremendously better, and the very next year, they only allowed 17 sacks and had the leagues 2nd leading rusher. his scheme is outdated for today's players.

Addict
02-15-2010, 11:13 AM
very very true. the year later when they could gain the weight back the OL looked tremendously better, and the very next year, they only allowed 17 sacks and had the leagues 2nd leading rusher. his scheme is outdated for today's players.

or maybe just for Atlanta's players. I don't think that a guy whose schemes are obviously incapable of catering to a team's needs would still have a job anywhere in the NFL.

SenorGato
02-15-2010, 11:17 AM
In my latest mock I've got the Browns taking Dez Bryant at #7. I know they took 2 receivers in the second round last year, but none of them as as much talent as Bryant. S or CB are also strong possibilities here but I guess Berry will be off the board when they pick. In the end it might be Haden or Bryant, considering value and need.

What do you think about this ?

I did the same.

Look at their offense right now...the OL is built and the left side is very nice with Thomas-Steinbach-Mack....they've got a couple of RBs right now with Harrison and Davis...they have Mass as a guy with #2 WR upside...Robiskie isn't a #1 weapon...they have no TE but no TE is going 7...Bryant would at least add a dynamic in the passing game that they don't have.

Haden would be nice for their D, but there's at least 10 CBs with at least 2nd round potential....

PACKmanN
02-15-2010, 11:52 AM
or maybe just for Atlanta's players. I don't think that a guy whose schemes are obviously incapable of catering to a team's needs would still have a job anywhere in the NFL.

really? I dont think anyone on Denvers' roster during his time there was bigger then 290, and during his stay with the Falcons, reports came out you couldn't be bigger then 290, and the biggest linemen he worked with are the ones in Houston, and Brown at 315 is the biggest one i believe. The weight requirements have followed him through out his coaching career, and is a major requirement for the ZBS to have success.

Addict
02-15-2010, 12:48 PM
really? I dont think anyone on Denvers' roster during his time there was bigger then 290, and during his stay with the Falcons, reports came out you couldn't be bigger then 290, and the biggest linemen he worked with are the ones in Houston, and Brown at 315 is the biggest one i believe. The weight requirements have followed him through out his coaching career, and is a major requirement for the ZBS to have success.

I don't understand how this is a reaction to anything I said.

Babylon
02-15-2010, 01:37 PM
Keep in mind that Seattle hired Alex Gibbs, a.k.a. The Zone Blocking Guru, as their offensive line coach so they aren't going to necessarily be looking for a 330 pound blocker. In fact, knowing that Gibbs can turn later picks into very good players in that scheme could make the Seahawks feel even more comfortable in passing on a left tackle in the first round.

Makes sense but if you're looking for a cornerstone at LT to replace Walter Jones i myself wouldn't pass on Okung/Davis/Okung. The Pac-10 wasnt noted for their DEs this year and i saw Brown struggle with a lot of them, not my favorite player.

SRK85
02-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Hmm looks good so far but for some reason it makes more sense for Bradford to be the 1st QB picked and I doubt the Patriots would draft Tebow. I think someone will trade towards the end of the 1st round to get Tebow.