PDA

View Full Version : Bucs Looking to Trade...


frubulubu
02-17-2010, 08:54 PM
According to PFT, the Buccaneers are looking to trade the third overall pick. Tampa, is still unsure what direction to take in the draft. Dominik, the Buccs GM, said they are looking to explore the options of trading up or down. My opinion, if it matters to any, is that they need bodies all over the board, and should down. If they trade up, who do they trade with and who do they target? Sound off...

Saints-Tigers
02-17-2010, 08:55 PM
Seems like they are trying to assure they get Suh or McCoy or get out of the spot.

Thank god, keep Eric Berry out of my division unless he's who dattin' it

RaiderNation
02-17-2010, 09:55 PM
Isnt most any team trying to trade up/down?

SenorGato
02-17-2010, 10:05 PM
Tell them to **** and pick Dez Bryant.

Who'd want to trade up to the top 3? Then again...no one thought the Jets would trade up to the top 5 until draft day.

descendency
02-17-2010, 10:50 PM
Isnt most any team trying to trade up/down?

That's probably somewhat true, but this is "Suh/McCoy or bust" really.

yourfavestoner
02-17-2010, 10:58 PM
With as many needs as they have, they'd be smart to take as much as they can get for the 3rd pick and save themselves the money.

Somebody is going to fall in love with one of the quarterbacks. You know it's going to happen.

If they are absolutely stuck in that spot, though, I think Haden makes a lot of sense for them. He'd be a ******* beast in the Tampa Two. Imagine Antoine Winfield if he was bigger, faster, and stronger.

RaiderNation
02-17-2010, 10:58 PM
That's probably somewhat true, but this is "Suh/McCoy or bust" really.

I disagree, Bryant or Berry would make a nice 3rd option IMO.

Stranger
02-17-2010, 11:07 PM
Tell them to **** and pick Dez Bryant.

Who'd want to trade up to the top 3? Then again...no one thought the Jets would trade up to the top 5 until draft day.

I think a trade is possible, someone is going to want one of the two QBs and will be scared of Washington taking them at 4. A trade with the Bills or Seattle will still give you a pretty good shot at either Berry or Bryant.

descendency
02-17-2010, 11:23 PM
I disagree, Bryant or Berry would make a nice 3rd option IMO.

Sorry, I meant that's the way the Bucs are looking at it. And no, I wouldn't spend the 3rd overall pick on a safety or a Wide receiver. If you don't play one of the big 3 (or 4), I would try to trade down. JPP and Russell Okung (and maybe a dark horse of Derrick Morgan) as well as maybe Joe Haden are my only options at 3rd overall.

But that part is my opinion.

yourfavestoner
02-17-2010, 11:31 PM
Mm...I don't know how much I like the idea of Berry to a Tampa Two team.

TBH, I like Mays much more for a Tampa Two scheme. Think about all big-time safeties you know who have played in a Tampa Two: John Lynch, Bob Sanders, Mike Brown, Adam Archuletta (when he was young). They were all big time run support guys who were simply adequate in coverage. They've just gotta keep everything in front of them and lay out anything that comes across the line of scrimmage.

Berry needs to be in a freelancing role, similar to how Ed Reed, Darren Sharper, and Troy Polamalu are.

And I am in no way advocating Taylor Mays be selected with the third pick, either. I just think he's a better schematic fit for Tampa Bay than Berry.

yourfavestoner
02-17-2010, 11:32 PM
Sorry, I meant that's the way the Bucs are looking at it. And no, I wouldn't spend the 3rd overall pick on a safety or a Wide receiver. If you don't play one of the big 3 (or 4), I would try to trade down. JPP and Russell Okung (and maybe a dark horse of Derrick Morgan) as well as maybe Joe Haden are my only options at 3rd overall.

But that part is my opinion.

Yeah, I think they go Okung or Haden if they don't land Suh/McCoy.

RaiderNation
02-17-2010, 11:36 PM
Sorry, I meant that's the way the Bucs are looking at it. And no, I wouldn't spend the 3rd overall pick on a safety or a Wide receiver. If you don't play one of the big 3 (or 4), I would try to trade down. JPP and Russell Okung (and maybe a dark horse of Derrick Morgan) as well as maybe Joe Haden are my only options at 3rd overall.

But that part is my opinion.

Okung at 3? Unless your team really needs a OT I wouldnt touch him til after the 5th or 6th. Hes gonna be a good OT dont get me wrong, but this draft is pretty solid at OT(could get Davis or Bulaga around 8-16, Ducasse, Brown or Campbell in the late 1st/early 2nd.) JPP I could see going off potential

yourfavestoner
02-17-2010, 11:37 PM
Okung at 3? Unless your team really needs a OT I wouldnt touch him til after the 5th or 6th. Hes gonna be a good OT dont get me wrong, but this draft is pretty solid at OT(could get Davis or Bulaga around 8-16, Ducasse, Brown or Campbell in the late 1st/early 2nd.) JPP I could see going off potential

Okay then, replace Okung with "whatever tackle they have rated highest on their board."

TitanHope
02-17-2010, 11:42 PM
If McCoy is still available and the Bucs are wanting to trade down, then I will be screaming at the TV for the Titans to trade up. Our 1st RD'er, 3rd RD'er, DT Tony Brown, and a 2011 pick for #3. Hell, throw myself, Voodoo, and Doughie in there. We can lick stamps or something. We've got HUGE mailroom upside! Not to mention, a signed agreement that Bud Adams will never flip off the Glazer family.

How can you pass that offer up? Honestly?

(Titans still don't need a DT in the 1st RD! It's just Suh and McCoy have the talent to actually fill the void most of the way that Haynesworth left, which is something Dan Williams, Brian Price, and no other DT in this draft can do.)

wordofi
02-17-2010, 11:43 PM
According to PFT, the Buccaneers are looking to trade the third overall pick. Tampa, is still unsure what direction to take in the draft. Dominik, the Buccs GM, said they are looking to explore the options of trading up or down. My opinion, if it matters to any, is that they need bodies all over the board, and should down. If they trade up, who do they trade with and who do they target? Sound off...

I think it's smart to trade the pick unless McCoy or Suh is available.

gpngc
02-17-2010, 11:44 PM
Possible teams trading up to #3...

-Bills, Jags, Broncos, 49ers to leapfrog Washington and get a QB.
-Jags, Broncos, or Dolphins to leapfrog KC, SEA, and/or CLE for Dez Bryant if his stock goes up as it probably will.

As far as Tampa trading up for a DT, I can't see it happening unless St. Louis falls in love with a QB and holds them hostage, prying away a 2nd or 3rd in the process a la the Browns-Lions-K2-Roy deal in 2004. And in that case, the Bucs would probably be savvy enough to call the bluff and see if St. Louis wouldn't just take the QB at #1, leaving Suh or McCoy to TB at #3. A lot of that hinges on Michael Vick, Jason Campbell, and how the Rams feel about the other QBs in this draft after the top two (or if either could be grabbed later by STL).

On another note, I think Pioli will do whatever he can to get out of #5, especially after taking Jackson so high last year. At that spot I think the Bengals could jump up and snag Dez Bryant or the Steelers could make a big move and get up there for Joe Haden.

I also think it's possible that everyone in the top 10-12 picks will be fielding calls about their spots for C.J. Spiller. The Pats, Packers, Chargers, Texans, Steelers, Seahawks, and 49ers could all get into a bidding war for one of those spots and give a lucky team a bunch of picks in return...

yourfavestoner
02-17-2010, 11:49 PM
I think Jacksonville looks to trade down instead up to three. They're already minus their second and seventh round picks.

CC.SD
02-18-2010, 12:00 AM
I guess the Bucs don't believe they'll be drafting JPP third overall either. :)

prock
02-18-2010, 12:00 AM
If I am the Bucs I sit at 3 and call the Rams bluff, unless they get an incredible offer. I really think the Rams are going to take a quarterback, as they should. If the Rams go DT at number 1, then the Bucs need to try and trade down, otherwise stay and grab Dez.

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 01:07 AM
If Suh and McCoy are gone, I want Berry either at S or CB. We can't pass on that talent.

I would be ok with Dez Bryant to help Freeman. Okung makes little sense because Donald Penn is a solid LT. JPP would make me jump out of a window.

Scott Wright
02-18-2010, 01:14 AM
Of course they want to trade down. So does St. Louis and Detroit. Nobody wants to pay an unproven rookie $40 million guaranteed. Tampa is especially screwed at #3 overall.

bucfan12
02-18-2010, 01:57 AM
If Suh and McCoy are off the board, as Michael Lombardi from the NFL Network said and I agree with, that Tampa's phone might be very active. The Bucs, I believe, will have a number of trade options being offered.

- The Seahawks and Bills will be trying to move up in front of Washington for Sam Bradford. You might even see the 49ers or Jaguars move up for a QB if they feel both Alex Smith and David Garrard aren't the answers.

- The 49ers might look to deal both 1st rounders to grab either Eric Berry, or they may feel there defense is set and get a DB in round 2 and 3, then grab a QB if they feel after the OTA's that they may need a better option at QB to contend in the NFC.

- This is a huge sleeper pick, but the New York Giants, who need a MLB to replace Antonio Pierce, may really covet Rolondo McClain.

Tampa could fill many needs in the 1st 3 rounds with their 4 picks, but they need to come out of this draft with 2 talented WR's that can contribute this year, a DT, DE, SS and CB (not in any order). Trading down can land them multiple picks and get them that help.

villagewarrior
02-18-2010, 02:09 AM
Of course they want to trade down. So does St. Louis and Detroit. Nobody wants to pay an unproven rookie $40 million guaranteed. Tampa is especially screwed at #3 overall.

They might as well trade up to 1 for Suh.

A Perfect Score
02-18-2010, 02:27 AM
I am in the minority, but I absolutely believe Dez Bryant is worth a #3 overall choice. He reminds me an awful lot of Andre Johnson, and while he might not be on THAT level, I think hes worthy of the selection. Not to mention, the Bucs could use the help at WR.

Abaddon
02-18-2010, 02:33 AM
Wouldn't shock me in the least to see Oakland trade up for Haden. Depending on what the Bucs want for the 3rd pick, that seems as good a landing spot as any.

Addict
02-18-2010, 02:38 AM
crazy idea, but I could see the bucs and the Rams swapping picks and like a fourth rounder. The rams may want a QB instead of a DT and want him at the best possible prize so it makes sense to trade down, even if it's just a few spots to #3, and the Bucs want one of the two DT's and are at a risk of getting neither. Makes sense.

I hope they don't trade and the Rams pick Bradford. Lions take Suh, Bucs take McCoy and all will be right in the world. Hell Chiefs might still have a choice between Berry and McClain assuming the Skins take Clausen.

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 03:44 AM
As a fan that would be a dream to only give up a 4th for Suh but the only question is do the Glazers want to pay the #1 overall pick considering all the rumors of how cheap they are?....

Addict
02-18-2010, 04:09 AM
As a fan that would be a dream to only give up a 4th for Suh but the only question is do the Glazers want to pay the #1 overall pick considering all the rumors of how cheap they are?....

Yeah that might be a problem, I agree. Berry would be much cheaper to sign, being a safety.

Incidentially, numbers-wise it'd hardly matter if Bradford is #1 or #3, since QB contracts seem to be calculated seperately from the rest of the contracts. So I guess joke's on me.

Shane P. Hallam
02-18-2010, 04:42 AM
As a fan that would be a dream to only give up a 4th for Suh but the only question is do the Glazers want to pay the #1 overall pick considering all the rumors of how cheap they are?....

Rumor has been that the Bucs have McCoy #1 on their board right now anyway.

It's just way too early to take this with anything more than a grain of salt. Who knows what will happen on draft day, would be great for Tampa to move down.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-18-2010, 05:08 AM
If they are absolutely stuck in that spot, though, I think Haden makes a lot of sense for them. He'd be a ******* beast in the Tampa Two. Imagine Antoine Winfield if he was bigger, faster, and stronger.



I'm praying he doesn't time well and the Falcons can move up a few slots to get him. It's never going to happen though.

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 05:18 AM
I just don't see how any can justify putting McCoy higher than Suh on their board. I was the biggest McCoy fan in the world all season (I had him as my #1 prospect almost all season), but what Suh did this year was unbelievable and he played in a much different role than McCoy. Suh is much stronger vs the run and while he played at 290, McCoy looks like he played at even less than that (280-285?).


Sorry, I dont mean to turn this into a Suh vs McCoy thread.. I just think it would be dumb for the Bucs to have McCoy over Suh on their board.

Stranger
02-18-2010, 05:20 AM
crazy idea, but I could see the bucs and the Rams swapping picks and like a fourth rounder. The rams may want a QB instead of a DT and want him at the best possible prize so it makes sense to trade down, even if it's just a few spots to #3, and the Bucs want one of the two DT's and are at a risk of getting neither. Makes sense.




I have mentioned this in a couple of mocks but this trade doesn't make much sense to me.

If the Rams are looking to trade with Bucs they are pretty saying "hey we don't want our pick of the DTs but want one of the QBs" so in that situation the Bucs would be guaranteed one of the two DTs without a trade. So why would they give up a draft pick and pay a much higher salary? Unless they had one of the two DTs rated much higher than the other I don't think it's a good trade.

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 05:35 AM
Well it would then be a stand off between the Rams and Bucs. The Rams would be saying "trade with us or we will take Suh". It would really all be about money but like Addict said, a QB at #1 or #3 would be about the same $$.

irishbucsfan
02-18-2010, 06:09 AM
Well it would then be a stand off between the Rams and Bucs. The Rams would be saying "trade with us or we will take Suh". It would really all be about money but like Addict said, a QB at #1 or #3 would be about the same $$.

Do you really think the Rams will base their decision to either take a DT or a franchise QB on whether another team calls their bluff?

descendency
02-18-2010, 06:18 AM
As a fan that would be a dream to only give up a 4th for Suh but the only question is do the Glazers want to pay the #1 overall pick considering all the rumors of how cheap they are?....

That's the problem. They'll probably trade down and take a safety so they don't pay too much.

Sorry, I dont mean to turn this into a Suh vs McCoy thread.. I just think it would be dumb for the Bucs to have McCoy over Suh on their board.

The only bucs fan I know who actually knows anything about football calls Suh "the perfect fit in tampa" while he is less high on McCoy (not as a football player, but in the system.)

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 06:23 AM
If they are not in love with either QB and have Suh as their #1 guy, sure.

irishbucsfan
02-18-2010, 06:29 AM
I'm sorry, I don't see it. The Rams would effectively be saying, we rate a QB high enough to take him at 3 to be our franchise QB, but if we stay at 1 we are going to pass on someone we think could be that guy, and take an entirely different position.

Me Likey Rookies
02-18-2010, 06:37 AM
Lets hope you are right so that we get a DT at #3.

HawkeyeFan
02-18-2010, 07:32 AM
Please trade up and and get the Rams away from Suh, thank you!

SloppyJoe
02-20-2010, 07:15 AM
Rams, Buccaneers Blockbuster Possible

http://profootball.scout.com/2/947712.html

George Lippard
02-20-2010, 12:06 PM
Not buying the Glazers (cheapest owners in the NFL) paying #1 money. This will end up eerily similar to the Bo Jackson situation in the Culverhouse days.


If they are absolutely stuck in that spot, though, I think Haden makes a lot of sense for them. He'd be a ******* beast in the Tampa Two. Imagine Antoine Winfield if he was bigger, faster, and stronger.
Mm...I don't know how much I like the idea of Berry to a Tampa Two team.

TBH, I like Mays much more for a Tampa Two scheme. Think about all big-time safeties you know who have played in a Tampa Two: John Lynch, Bob Sanders, Mike Brown, Adam Archuletta (when he was young). They were all big time run support guys who were simply adequate in coverage. They've just gotta keep everything in front of them and lay out anything that comes across the line of scrimmage.

Berry needs to be in a freelancing role, similar to how Ed Reed, Darren Sharper, and Troy Polamalu are.

And I am in no way advocating Taylor Mays be selected with the third pick, either. I just think he's a better schematic fit for Tampa Bay than Berry.

Tampa Bay hasn't used the Tampa 2 regularly since 06.

OneToughGame
02-20-2010, 03:17 PM
If Suh and McCoy are off the board, as Michael Lombardi from the NFL Network said and I agree with, that Tampa's phone might be very active. The Bucs, I believe, will have a number of trade options being offered.

- The Seahawks and Bills will be trying to move up in front of Washington for Sam Bradford. You might even see the 49ers or Jaguars move up for a QB if they feel both Alex Smith and David Garrard aren't the answers.

- The 49ers might look to deal both 1st rounders to grab either Eric Berry, or they may feel there defense is set and get a DB in round 2 and 3, then grab a QB if they feel after the OTA's that they may need a better option at QB to contend in the NFC.

- This is a huge sleeper pick, but the New York Giants, who need a MLB to replace Antonio Pierce, may really covet Rolondo McClain.

Tampa could fill many needs in the 1st 3 rounds with their 4 picks, but they need to come out of this draft with 2 talented WR's that can contribute this year, a DT, DE, SS and CB (not in any order). Trading down can land them multiple picks and get them that help.

Sam Bradford does not rhythm with Jake Locker and 2011 draft. :)

descendency
02-20-2010, 03:32 PM
If this trade goes down, Washington should consider trading to #2 overall and take the QB they clearly want. The Lions will likely be able to get McCoy (or Suh) at 4, which is who they are actually targetting anyways. They might have to take Davis or Okung. Dez Bryant will be there too... ;) (just kidding lions fans)

Legacy
02-20-2010, 03:38 PM
Rams, Buccaneers Blockbuster Possible

http://profootball.scout.com/2/947712.html
If the Bucs can get Suh for the 3rd overall pick, one of their backup QBs and a third round pick, I'd be very happy.

George Lippard
02-20-2010, 04:34 PM
No one is buying that Josh Johnson is worth the difference needed to get this trade over.

No chance.

And I don't want Suh, so let's not do this.

V.I.P
02-20-2010, 05:57 PM
Rumor has been that the Bucs have McCoy #1 on their board right now anyway.

It's just way too early to take this with anything more than a grain of salt. Who knows what will happen on draft day, would be great for Tampa to move down.

I hope that this is not true. We need a run stopping DT, and McCoy is simply not that. I'm tired of DeAngelo Williams, and Johnathon Stuart running for 200 yards on us every season.


http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Carolina+Panthers+v+Tampa+Bay+Buccaneers+Z4tBYynYS Nvl.jpg

:mad:

George Lippard
02-20-2010, 06:00 PM
I don't think 1 great run stuffing defensive tackle will suddenly make the Buccaneers a top-tier run stopping team. The horrid run-defense was a team failure. And pure pass-rushers are rarer than run-stuffers.

http://nimg.sulekha.com/Sports/original700/deangelo-williams-ronde-barber-2008-12-9-12-35-9.jpg

V.I.P
02-20-2010, 06:11 PM
Suh (Run Stopper/Pass Rusher) > McCoy (Pass Rusher) IMO.

George Lippard
02-20-2010, 06:13 PM
Suh (Run Stopper/Pass Rusher) > McCoy (Pass Rusher) IMO.

McCoy can become better at defending the run, Suh will never have McCoy's first step. We can go in circles forever but I want Sapp 2.0, not Seymour 2.0.

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 06:20 PM
I just read, that the Rams are leaning more on Suh. For whatever its worth.

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 09:55 PM
I know i recently posted something on this, but this is breaking.
Today's discussion centers on Tampa Bay, where Chris Steuber of Scout.com reports that the Buccaneers' infatuation with Suh could lead them to trade up with the Rams and take Suh first overall. Per Steuber, the trade could involve the Bucs sending quarterback Josh Johnson to the Rams, along with the Bucs' first-round pick (No. 3 overall) and another pick as well.

V.I.P
02-20-2010, 11:03 PM
Interesting, very interesting.

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:12 PM
and you proceeded to make another thread?

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:13 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38701&page=2

dude you dont need to make a thread when Suh shaves his pubes ok

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 11:19 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38701&page=2

dude you dont need to make a thread when Suh shaves his pubes ok

This is about a trade that could send the Buccs young QB, to st louis. Not about your idea of fantasy footbsll, Suh's pubes, you sick pig!

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:23 PM
did you not make a thread in regards to a possible trade ?

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 11:28 PM
did you not make a thread in regards to a possible trade ?

I obviously made a mention to it in the beginning. And I have a couple of beers on me, and heard that on the radio on my way back from the party. Cheers!

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:29 PM
I obviously made a mention to it in the beginning. And I have a couple of beers on me, and heard that on the radio on my way back from the party. Cheers!

well regain your focus, put down the Zimas.

Scotty D
02-20-2010, 11:33 PM
did you not make a thread in regards to a possible trade ?

Take it easy on him boe! He's new and a Lions fan!

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:34 PM
Take it easy on him boe! He's new and a Lions fan!

that explains it.

V.I.P
02-20-2010, 11:38 PM
He's new and a Lions fan!

And we all know there aren't to many of them. :p

WMD
02-20-2010, 11:39 PM
Fact: Whichever DT goes to Detroit will have the better career.

bored of education
02-20-2010, 11:40 PM
Fact: Whichever DT goes to Detroit will have the better career.

fact: this comment made by WMD is a fact

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 11:43 PM
well regain your focus, put down the Zimas.

I got my compusure my man, and im focus. Just shedding light on some new stuff. Im talking football, and your talking Suh's pubes.

frubulubu
02-20-2010, 11:47 PM
Take it easy on him boe! He's new and a Lions fan!

My man Scotty D, good looking! Yes there arent many of us, but were loyal.

Scotty D
02-20-2010, 11:50 PM
And we all know there aren't to many of them. :p

Lions fans love the draft, its our playoffs.

rockio42
02-20-2010, 11:55 PM
Lions fans love the draft, its our version of the Dallas Cowboys playoffs.

fixed it for you :)

Scotty D
02-20-2010, 11:58 PM
fixed it for you :)

since you took a jab at the Cowboys I'll let it slide

Thumper
02-21-2010, 02:14 AM
My man Scotty D, good looking! Yes there arent many of us, but were loyal.

Wait. Stop right there furby, aren't you an Eagles fan?

rockio42
02-21-2010, 02:14 AM
since you took a jab at the Cowboys I'll let it slide

hahaha thank you very much

WMD
02-21-2010, 02:17 AM
Wait. Stop right there furby, aren't you an Eagles fan?
He hit it and quit it

Bucs4242
02-21-2010, 04:37 AM
Okung at 3? Unless your team really needs a OT I wouldnt touch him til after the 5th or 6th. Hes gonna be a good OT dont get me wrong, but this draft is pretty solid at OT(could get Davis or Bulaga around 8-16, Ducasse, Brown or Campbell in the late 1st/early 2nd.) JPP I could see going off potential


Donald Penn > Okung

If the Bucs dont get McCoy or Suh, they will choose between Berry, Bryant, and McClain.



Haden, Okung, and the other 1st round DEs arent real options for the BUcs at #3

RealityCheck
02-21-2010, 08:45 AM
I know i recently posted something on this, but this is breaking.
Today's discussion centers on Tampa Bay, where Chris Steuber of Scout.com reports that the Buccaneers' infatuation with Suh could lead them to trade up with the Rams and take Suh first overall. Per Steuber, the trade could involve the Bucs sending quarterback Josh Johnson to the Rams, along with the Bucs' first-round pick (No. 3 overall) and another pick as well.
I'd rather #1 for #3 and #35.

frubulubu
02-21-2010, 08:46 AM
Wait. Stop right there furby, aren't you an Eagles fan?

Huge Eagle fan, since 1989. I have been living in Detroit the last four years, and have made grest friends. They happen to be Lions fans. I have been to a couple of games with them, and will pull for them. But, Eagles are my team, Cant wait till they come to ford field this year. You got to root for the home team, right?

NGSeiler
02-21-2010, 09:25 AM
Rumor has been that the Bucs have McCoy #1 on their board right now anyway.

The Scout link seems to suggest otherwise: "A month and a half ago, I reported that Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik attended the Brut Sun Bowl to scout McCoy personally, and while the Bucs like McCoy, they have Suh graded much higher and would be willing to make this move to land him."

Please trade up and and get the Rams away from Suh, thank you!

At some point, I'd be intrigued to see a detailed explanation as to why you're so against this guy. I can understand preferring other players, but your posts make it sound like you're very anti-Suh specifically.

Rams, Buccaneers Blockbuster Possible

http://profootball.scout.com/2/947712.html

Very interesting news, even if it's simply preliminary talks. For weeks, many Rams fans have focused on Tampa Bay as the most logical target for a trade down opportunity. I'm not sure I'm all that interested in Josh Johnson though.

I'd rather #1 for #3 and #35.

Agreed, but if the Rams are thinking about taking a QB, I'd rather them take a third rounder and Johnson so they can select the guy at the three-spot than selecting the same guy with the first overall pick.

Bucs4242
02-21-2010, 05:32 PM
Rams fan...


1) the BUcs no doubt have SUh higher than McCoy, its been reported all offseason that he is #1 on their board. McCoy probably being #2

2) The BUcs are a great trade partner.

a) YOur GM worked with our GM under Bruce Allen, so they have a good relationship.

b) The Rams know that the Lions and bUcs will NOT take a QB this year, making the 3rd pick the lowest they can go and still be sure they will get the QB of their choice

c) The Rams save a ton of money selecting Bradford at 3 rather than 1

d) The BUcs love SUh and a 3 technique DT is the biggest need on the team

Bucs4242
02-21-2010, 05:35 PM
oh and JOsh Johnson is a quality young QB

He has 4.4- 4.5 speed, and is VERY smart. A student of the game. hes also very accurate on the short to intermediate routes. he just needs to get the mental aspect down. He went from division 1AA to the NFL so there are some adjustments needed.

At worst he is a quality young stop gap who will give Rams fans some interest for a year even if he doesnt work out, and theen he will be a quality backup

George Lippard
02-21-2010, 05:42 PM
If Josh Johnson was a true franchise QB, the Buccaneers wouldn't have drafted Freeman. The Rams won't have any trouble finding a season long stopgap elsewhere.

I mean this in the least offensive way but when you watch interviews with Johnson it almost seems like he has aspergers. Not to mention he has a savant-like understanding of football. Memorizing play names that are 15 words long and **** like that.

I still don't believe a 3rd round pick and a backup with limited upside can cover the difference from 1 to 3.

Big_Pete
02-21-2010, 09:52 PM
It is being reported that the St. Louis Rams have discussed a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Buccaneers would trade the No. 3 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, a third-round draft pick and QB Josh Johnson to the Rams in exchange for the No. 1 overall pick.

Assuming this is true, then how does it shake up the draft?

It seems to make some sense, the Bucs need a stud DT like Suh or McCoy and there is little chance of either slipping to number 3. Presumably the Bucs would want a in place before free agency so they know what their needs are.

Would it mean the Rams are likely to go with Bradford? or could we see them go in a completely different direction?

Do the rams view Johnson as a potential starter at QB to groom behind Bulger? If so then Bradford is unlikely. Do the Rams then go with Berry, McClain, Haden or Okung?

bored of education
02-21-2010, 09:56 PM
Jeebus there are two threads about this

Big_Pete
02-21-2010, 10:29 PM
Jeebus there are two threads about this

Apologies, I didn't see any other threads

Babylon
02-21-2010, 10:36 PM
It is being reported that the St. Louis Rams have discussed a trade with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Buccaneers would trade the No. 3 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, a third-round draft pick and QB Josh Johnson to the Rams in exchange for the No. 1 overall pick.

Assuming this is true, then how does it shake up the draft?

It seems to make some sense, the Bucs need a stud DT like Suh or McCoy and there is little chance of either slipping to number 3. Presumably the Bucs would want a in place before free agency so they know what their needs are.

Would it mean the Rams are likely to go with Bradford? or could we see them go in a completely different direction?

Do the rams view Johnson as a potential starter at QB to groom behind Bulger? If so then Bradford is unlikely. Do the Rams then go with Berry, McClain, Haden or Okung?

Many are predicting a QB to the Rams yet there is little chance a DT would fall to 3? explain.

gpngc
02-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Rams fan...


1) the BUcs no doubt have SUh higher than McCoy, its been reported all offseason that he is #1 on their board. McCoy probably being #2

2) The BUcs are a great trade partner.

a) YOur GM worked with our GM under Bruce Allen, so they have a good relationship.

b) The Rams know that the Lions and bUcs will NOT take a QB this year, making the 3rd pick the lowest they can go and still be sure they will get the QB of their choice

c) The Rams save a ton of money selecting Bradford at 3 rather than 1

d) The BUcs love SUh and a 3 technique DT is the biggest need on the team

Great point.

As far as compensation goes (Josh Johnson), I don't think the Rams really care too much what they get in return- they just want to move down because of the money.

This all hinges on them really loving Bradford or Clausen.

Scott Wright
02-22-2010, 02:32 AM
I would say that Josh Johnson's trade value equates to a 4th or 5th Round pick.

Bucs4242
02-22-2010, 03:18 AM
If Josh Johnson was a true franchise QB, the Buccaneers wouldn't have drafted Freeman. The Rams won't have any trouble finding a season long stopgap elsewhere.

Who said he was a franchise QB?





I mean this in the least offensive way but when you watch interviews with Johnson it almost seems like he has aspergers. Not to mention he has a savant-like understanding of football. Memorizing play names that are 15 words long and **** like that.

Aspergers? I mean this in the least offensive way, but youre a dumb***. thats all I can say from reading comments from you. savant like understanding of football? So youre saying him being a cerebral QB is bad?





I still don't believe a 3rd round pick and a backup with limited upside can cover the difference from 1 to 3.



Limited upside is debatable

a) Jon Gruden loved the guy coming out of college, and saw a raw D 1AA prospect with serious potential in a WCO

b) your own organization loves the guy, calling him a Vick like athlete with the potential to be a better passer.

They are right on about that.

Bucs4242
02-22-2010, 03:22 AM
I would say that Josh Johnson's trade value equates to a 4th or 5th Round pick.


This sounds accurate.






As far as compensation goes (Josh Johnson), I don't think the Rams really care too much what they get in return- they just want to move down because of the money.

This all hinges on them really loving Bradford or Clausen.

You nailed it

If the Rams received NO compensation from the BUcs, and just swaped the #1 for the #3 it's still a win for St Louis, IF they fall in love with one of the QBs

A simple 3rd round pick and JOsh Johnson (equivelant of a 4th or 5th roundeR) wouldnt be a bad incentive to trade down to #3 and save a bunch of money and still draft the #1 QB

Addict
02-22-2010, 05:28 AM
Who said he was a franchise QB?

maybe not franchise, but the Rams are obviously thinking he's a potential starting QB, otherwise what's the point of trading for him?


Aspergers? I mean this in the least offensive way, but youre a dumb***. thats all I can say from reading comments from you. savant like understanding of football? So youre saying him being a cerebral QB is bad?

classy. Really classy.



Limited upside is debatable

a) Jon Gruden loved the guy coming out of college, and saw a raw D 1AA prospect with serious potential in a WCO

Jon Gruden loves any QB and you know it. Johnson was a project who appearently inspired so little confidence that they drafted a first-round QB a year later.


b) your own organization loves the guy, calling him a Vick like athlete with the potential to be a better passer.

They are right on about that.

Well I see you're a big Johnson fan. And he's not a Vick like athlete. He's a dual threat, but that in no way puts him on Vick's level of ahtleticism. Don't throw stuff like that around.

Scott Wright
02-22-2010, 06:39 AM
From Peter King's latest Monday Morning Quarterback:

2. I think I would be shocked -- as would the St. Louis Rams, quite frankly -- if the Bucs were remotely serious about trading up to number one in the draft from their spot at three. If you haven't noticed in the last 15 months, the Bucs are shedding salary the way I wish I could shed pounds, which is to say, with consistent regularity. Paying JaMarcus Russell money ($39 million in the first three years of his Oakland deal) to a defensive tackle would blow everyone in the league away. As one source with knowledge of the inner workings of each team said to me in a text the other night when I asked about the chances of the Bucs and Rams dealing: "About the same as Colgate joining the Big East.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/3.html

Big_Pete
02-22-2010, 06:48 AM
Many are predicting a QB to the Rams yet there is little chance a DT would fall to 3? explain.

simple, this assumes the Bucs traded up to #1.

if Tampa is trading up it is for Suh or McCoy

whoever doesn't go at #1 will not fall past Detroit

But otherwise this should be dicussed elsewhere as this is a duplicate thread.

yourfavestoner
02-22-2010, 10:50 AM
They should really just stay at 3 and draft Haden and watch him flourish in the Tampa Two.

George Lippard
02-22-2010, 10:52 AM
They should really just stay at 3 and draft Haden and watch him flourish in the Tampa Two.

Tampa Bay no longer employs the Tampa Two on a regular basis. Haven't in years.

yourfavestoner
02-22-2010, 11:15 AM
Tampa Bay no longer employs the Tampa Two on a regular basis. Haven't in years.

Years? Monte Kiffin has only been gone for one season...
I was under the impression that they still ran a Tampa Two variant.

George Lippard
02-22-2010, 11:20 AM
Years? Monte Kiffin has only been gone for a year...
I was under the impression that they still ran a Tampa Two variant.

The last few years under Kiffin they got away from the Tampa Two. I'd guess because they had no front four pressure (losing Sapp/Rice will do that). The coverage scheme was still Tampa Two-ish until they drafted Aqib Talib.

Babylon
02-22-2010, 01:00 PM
simple, this assumes the Bucs traded up to #1.

if Tampa is trading up it is for Suh or McCoy

whoever doesn't go at #1 will not fall past Detroit

But otherwise this should be dicussed elsewhere as this is a duplicate thread.

I was responding to you saying a trade up for Tampa would make sense because there was little chance either of the two tackles drops to 3. I then said if as rumored in a lot of places the Rams go for a QB then the scenario you mentioned isnt a given.

Personally i think the Bucs stay put and see what falls to them.

gpngc
02-22-2010, 01:03 PM
Well Colgate is pretty good...

Remember Jamaal Branch, Scott?

V.I.P
02-22-2010, 02:01 PM
You know what they say, "When you can't get Michael Vick just suit for Josh Johnson."

Babylon
02-22-2010, 02:07 PM
You know what they say, "When you can't get Michael Vick just suit for Josh Johnson."

It'll probably be neither, their next QB in St Louis will be Bradford, Clausen or Locker most likely.

George Lippard
02-22-2010, 02:11 PM
My heart tells me that Suh should go to St. Louis but my head tells me that Spags has to get his QB asap and that he can't afford to take Suh, go 4-12 and pick top 5 again.

thenewfeature06
02-22-2010, 02:14 PM
My heart tells me that Suh should go to St. Louis but my head tells me that Spags has to get his QB asap and that he can't afford to take Suh, go 4-12 and pick top 5 again.

If they understood there are really only 2 elite quarterbacks in this years class, I would expect the teams that need a qb to make a move ala Carolina maybe using Peppers as trade bait..

yourfavestoner
02-22-2010, 02:20 PM
If they understood there are really only 2 elite quarterbacks in this years class, I would expect the teams that need a qb to make a move ala Carolina maybe using Peppers as trade bait..

As draft day gets closer, you'll see this line of thinking more and more.

Other than Clausen and Bradford (and they both have major questions as well) this QB class is absolute crap.

LonghornsLegend
02-22-2010, 07:07 PM
Getting Suh is a good idea for TB if they can make it happen, but Josh Johnson and a 3rd would be a steal and not nearly enough. They need to start with their 2nd, Josh Johnson, a late rounder, and a pick next year.


I get that it's only a few spots, but you don't just give it away for a 3rd and a developmental QB. Throwing in JJ makes sense for the Rams, but I'd still need value from picks like their 2nd rounder, that 3rd could equate to nothing.


I think the Rams are going to take a QB, or at least want to, so they want to bait everyone into thinking they want one of the DT's so they can trade down to #3, the two DT's go 1-2, and they get the guy they wanted all along with extra picks.


Tampa needs to just sit tight, they would be trading all these picks and could end up with McCoy at #3 anyway.

Bucs4242
02-24-2010, 07:05 AM
maybe not franchise, but the Rams are obviously thinking he's a potential starting QB, otherwise what's the point of trading for him?

a) to save money on Bradford

b) to add an additional 3rd round pick

c) to add a talented young Qb with potential to a team with no QB



classy. Really classy.


So it is not offensive to you that your fellow Rams fan would say Josh Johnson sounds like he has aspergers, but it does offend you that I would reply and call him a dumb a**? I think you take being a Rams fan too far




Jon Gruden loves any QB and you know it. Johnson was a project who appearently inspired so little confidence that they drafted a first-round QB a year later.


Johnson was and is a 5th round project, you are the only one drawing a connection between JOhnson EVER being thought of as a solution for ANYBODYS QB problems. Start paying attention slappy



Well I see you're a big Johnson fan.

Where do you get that from? Funny, because I never expressed that view here. I said he is a 5th round project with upside, who will likely be a good back up at best




And he's not a Vick like athlete. He's a dual threat, but that in no way puts him on Vick's level of ahtleticism. Don't throw stuff like that around.


I didnt, your RAMS did. Can you read, at all?>

Bucs4242
02-24-2010, 07:10 AM
I get that it's only a few spots, but you don't just give it away for a 3rd and a developmental QB.




You seem to be missing the hidden benefits the Rams would receive

Like the fact that they can get be assured that they will get the player theyw ant (if that player is Bradford) and not only add a 3rd rounder and JJ, but save a ton of money on Bradford

If the Rams received NO compensation from the bUcs, this would still be a GREAT deal for them. IF they want Bardford

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:35 PM
With as many needs as they have, they'd be smart to take as much as they can get for the 3rd pick and save themselves the money.

Somebody is going to fall in love with one of the quarterbacks. You know it's going to happen.

If they are absolutely stuck in that spot, though, I think Haden makes a lot of sense for them. He'd be a ******* beast in the Tampa Two. Imagine Antoine Winfield if he was bigger, faster, and stronger.

Why would a Tampa-2 team waste a top 3 draft pick on a CB? History shows that no team running the T-2 has ever taken a CB top 20. Tampa-2 teams invest early and often on their defensive line and history shows that they can get quality CBs outside of the top 20- Talib (late 1st), Barber (3rd), Brian Kelly (2nd), Dwight Smith (3rd), Donnie Abraham (3rd), and even the Bears, Vikings, and Colts' CBs were not taken early and have been excellent.

In the t-2, the pass rush is where it is at.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Why would a Tampa-2 team waste a top 3 draft pick on a CB? History shows that no team running the T-2 has ever taken a CB top 20. Tampa-2 teams invest early and often on their defensive line and history shows that they can get quality CBs outside of the top 20- Talib (late 1st), Barber (3rd), Brian Kelly (2nd), Dwight Smith (3rd), Donnie Abraham (3rd), and even the Bears, Vikings, and Colts' CBs were not taken early and have been excellent.

In the t-2, the pass rush is where it is at.

They haven't employed the Tampa Two with any regularity for a few seasons now.

And Aqib Talib was drafted 20th overall.

Next.

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:40 PM
The Bucs need to trade down to the 10-15 range and take Brian Price. Price was every bit as good, if not better, than McCoy last year and played against better OLines, and statistically speaking, he was close to Suh. The caveat is that he was 2 years younger than Suh and has had one less major knee operation.

Besides all that, rebuilding teams often don't turn their fortunes of the back of one player, they need an influx of talent, one guy won't do it... trade down and restock their roster.

thenewfeature06
02-24-2010, 12:41 PM
If I ran the Bucs I would honestly select McClain with that pick to sor tof complete there defense, the secondary is already very good and if Suh and Mccoy are off the board, Mcclain would be my guy. I know Barrett Ruud is still there but the thing with McClain is he can play any of those spots and is team-leader. Just my IMO.

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:42 PM
They haven't employed the Tampa Two with any regularity for a few seasons now.

And Aqib Talib was drafted 20th overall.

Next.

Uhhhh, what? The Bucs ran the T-2 right until the end of 2008, then they brought on Jim Bates for 2009 who was fired after 9 games and then they went back to the T-2? A few seasons, are you a complete moron?


Exactly, Talib wasn't inside the top 20. He's a late 1st. NEXT!

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:44 PM
If I ran the Bucs I would honestly select McClain with that pick to sor tof complete there defense, the secondary is already very good and if Suh and Mccoy are off the board, Mcclain would be my guy. I know Barrett Ruud is still there but the thing with McClain is he can play any of those spots and is team-leader. Just my IMO.

McClain is a great prospect, but what would be the point in adding another LB when the team's biggest need is clearly the front 4? Besides that, for all of McClain's abilities, the MLB in the t-2 needs to be able to run 30 yards down the middle of the field to cover the deep 3rd... you really think he would excel at that?

thenewfeature06
02-24-2010, 12:46 PM
McClain is a great prospect, but what would be the point in adding another LB when the team's biggest need is clearly the front 4? Besides that, for all of McClain's abilities, the MLB in the t-2 needs to be able to run 30 yards down the middle of the field to cover the deep 3rd... you really think he would excel at that?

No I don't think he would excel? but he can do that.. he is very versatile and probably runs in the 4.6 range

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:49 PM
No I don't think he would excel? but he can do that.. he is very versatile and probably runs in the 4.6 range

I know what he runs, but generally speaking, T-2 LBs are much lighter, change direction better, and are much more fluid in coverage (Urlacher withstanding). It just doesn't make sense to add a thumper when all they need is a rocked up safety but their greatest need is at DL.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 12:51 PM
Uhhhh, what? The Bucs ran the T-2 right until the end of 2008, then they brought on Jim Bates for 2009 who was fired after 9 games and then they went back to the T-2? A few seasons, are you a complete moron?


Exactly, Talib wasn't inside the top 20. He's a late 1st. NEXT!

I'm pretty sure that being drafted 20th overall qualifies as a top 20 player. Quit backpedaling. You might be right here, if you admit that they weren't even running the Tampa-Two at the time. I'm right either way.

History shows that no team running the T-2 has ever taken a CB top 20.

____________

The Tampa-Two isn't used every down like you think it is. It is more of a situational package.

and how has the Buccaneers defense continued to succeed using the Tampa-Two (which is dependent on the D-Line, as you said) when they have one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL...it's because they haven't used the Tampa-Two with any regularity for a long time.

You haven't watched every game, like I have.

You don't have an in-depth understanding of football, like I do.

Quit while you're behind, please.

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:55 PM
I'm pretty sure that being drafted 20th overall qualifies as a top 20 player. Quit backpedaling. You might be right here, if you admit that they weren't even running the Tampa-Two at the time. I'm right either way.



____________

The Tampa-Two isn't used every down like you think it is. It is more of a situational package.

and how has the Buccaneers defense continued to succeed using the Tampa-Two (which is dependent on the D-Line, as you said) when they have one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL...it's because they haven't used the Tampa-Two with any regularity for a long time.

You haven't watched every game, like I have.

You don't have an in-depth understanding of football, like I do.

Quit while you're behind, please.

Are you effing kidding me? I have watched every Buc game since 1997. And I'm 1000% sure I have a better understanding of the T-2 and most other offensive and defensive formations than you do. Just the fact that you would say something like that when you have no clue as to who you are talking to tells me you are a pompous know-nothing ass.

No T-2 team has ever taken a CB inside of the top 20. Check out, know nothing. The closest you will get is Marlin Jackson getting drafted by the Colts a few years back at the tail end of round 1... other than him and Talib ZERO teams have taken a CB in round 1 that ran the T-2... This includes the Jets under Edwards, the Rams under Smith (defensively), the Panthers (under Meeks), and the Chiefs (under Edwards). Check on it and choke on it and watch who you're calling out, nozzle.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 12:56 PM
Don't change your words. Now you're saying "inside the top 20" to try to argue your point.

History shows that no team running the T-2 has ever taken a CB top 20.

Aqib Talib, taken 20th overall.

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:57 PM
And for the record, t-2 refers more than just running the 2 deep safety alignment, it means one gapping the DL which the Bucs have done every year with regularity since 1996 up until the first 9 games of 2009.

brasho
02-24-2010, 12:59 PM
and how has the Buccaneers defense continued to succeed using the Tampa-Two (which is dependent on the D-Line, as you said) when they have one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL...it's because they haven't used the Tampa-Two with any regularity for a long time.

You haven't watched every game, like I have.

You don't have an in-depth understanding of football, like I do.

Quit while you're behind, please.

Right, that's why when they fired Bates and went back to the TAMPA-2 style of defense that they went from the 31st ranked defense in the league to the low 20's.


And if they haven't used it in such a long time, how did they finish in the top 10, defensively, in 2008? You know nothing!

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:01 PM
Don't change your words. Now you're saying "inside the top 20" to try to argue your point.



Aqib Talib, taken 20th overall.

Whatever, I was off by one, the point is that high picks aren't used on T-2 CBs... you're the moron that said that Bucs haven't used the T-2 in a long time... when they used it the last 7 games of 2009 and from 1996-2008.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 01:02 PM
Right, that's why when they fired Bates and went back to the TAMPA-2 style of defense that they went from the 31st ranked defense in the league to the high 20's.


And if they haven't used it in such a long time, how did they finish in the top 10, defensively, in 2008? You know nothing!

First, understand what the Tampa 2 is. Then come back.

Whatever, I was off by one, the point is that high picks aren't used on T-2 CBs... you're the moron that said that Bucs haven't used the T-2 in a long time... when they used it the last 7 games of 2009 and from 1996-2008.

I'm not here to educate you on football fundamentals. You admitted that you were wrong, why should I trust anything else you say?


The Bucs aren't getting Suh and won't make a trade.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:03 PM
Don't change your words. Now you're saying "inside the top 20" to try to argue your point.



Aqib Talib, taken 20th overall.

And you know what, you're going to keep having to go back to that one tiny point, (I was thinking Talib was taken 21 overall, my bad) because you are dead wrong on every other point. BFD!

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:04 PM
*Yawn*




How about it? ^

You're an IDIOT! A yawn and a how about it? Why don't you wow me with your astounding football knowledge, nozzle? Why don't you try to defend the fact that you said the Bucs haven't used the T-2 in a long time (it was only 2 months ago)?

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:07 PM
First, understand what the Tampa 2 is. Then come back.



http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/assets_c/2008/12/wve-white-flag-260-thumb-260x358.jpg

I'm not here to educate you on football fundamentals. You admitted that you were wrong, why should I trust anything else you say?


The Bucs aren't getting Suh and won't make a trade.

I know pretty much everything there is to know about the t-2, moron. Yeah, I admitted I was off about Talib, I thought he was taken #21 overall, big deal. My point is still valid, dunce, T-2 teams don't take CBs high, period. I never said the Bucs would get Suh, where did I say that? Stick to the points, you make no sense and all you can do is keep pointing to Talib... again address the numerous times you were wrong, loser.

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 01:09 PM
Why would a Tampa-2 team waste a top 3 draft pick on a CB? History shows that no team running the T-2 has ever taken a CB top 20. Tampa-2 teams invest early and often on their defensive line and history shows that they can get quality CBs outside of the top 20- Talib (late 1st), Barber (3rd), Brian Kelly (2nd), Dwight Smith (3rd), Donnie Abraham (3rd), and even the Bears, Vikings, and Colts' CBs were not taken early and have been excellent.

In the t-2, the pass rush is where it is at.

TBH, we haven't seen a corner that compliments that scheme so perfectly as we have in Haden. All the guys you listed had some kind of flaw that made them fall.

While Minny may not have drafted him, they spent a boatload of money to sign Antoine Winfield. Haden is a rich man's Winfield.

The key to stopping the pass in the Tampa Two is, yes, the pass rush. But what is the key to stopping the run in that scheme? Physical corners who can contain and tackle. It might not be the most important position in the Tampa Two, but it's still inherently more valuable than a safety in that scheme.

The whole corner thing for the Tampa Two reminds me of the Broncos' unwillingness to take a talented runningback under Shannahan. Sure, you can plug in just about anybody and be successful, but imagine if you actually put an elite talent back there. The highest he ever drafted a runningback was Portis (it was a joke he fell to the 2nd anyways) and look at the damage he did in Denver: two 1500 yard seasons averaging 5.5 ypc.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 01:11 PM
You're an IDIOT!

moron. dunce, loser.

you are a pompous know-nothing ass.nozzle.

are you a complete moron?

Come on man.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:13 PM
The key to stopping the pass in the Tampa Two is, yes, the pass rush. But what is the key to stopping the run in that scheme? Physical corners who can contain and tackle. It might not be the most important position in the Tampa Two, but it's still inherently more valuable than a safety in that scheme.

.

Barber, Abraham, and Kelly were pretty darn close to elite.

They key to stopping the run in the t-2 is everybody staying in their gap, meaning Hovan and Sims not getting pushed back 5 yards and optimally getting penetration into the backfield. Good strong CBs are great, but look at the Bucs of the early 2000's, they cared about CBs but Barber and Kelly were among the two best yet they got paid around the 30th best in the league. They value CBs but they really value the DL (4 #1's between 95-98 Upshaw, Sapp, M. Jones, McFarland) and still franchised Ahanatu and signed Simeon Rice. In that same time span they drafted Abraham #3, Barber at #3 and Kelly at #2.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Come on man.

Awwww, am I hurting your poor little baby feelings? Maybe if you try not acting like the complete nozzle that you are and actually defending your points with valid information then you wouldn't get your pretty pink panties in a bunch. Grow up, cry baby!

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 01:17 PM
Awwww, am I hurting your poor little baby feelings? Maybe if you try not acting like the complete nozzle that you are and actually defending your points with valid information then you wouldn't get your pretty pink panties in a bunch. Grow up, cry baby!

Just looking out.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=428963#post428963

Do not personally attack another member.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:18 PM
Come on man.

And now you're misquoting me,

I never called you: Quote:
Originally Posted by brasho
you are a pompous know-nothing ass.nozzle.



I called you an "ass" as in a "jackass"... and I also called you a "nozzle", both of which are true... "ass nozzle" I don't know about... but perhaps the shoe fits. Why don't you hold your breath and wait till mommy comes home to comfort you?

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:20 PM
Just looking out.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=428963#post428963

Right, just looking out. All you care about is me... sure. You're such a good fellow, being a freaking baby when you know you are absolutely wrong about something and not being able to admit it and trying to change the subject from how ignorant and stupid you come off to my insults, which by the way, you started when you tried to somehow state that I didn't know as much as you do...which is the worst insult a clown like you could ever say to somebody.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:24 PM
____________

The Tampa-Two isn't used every down like you think it is.

You haven't watched every game, like I have.

You don't have an in-depth understanding of football, like I do.

Quit while you're behind, please.

Right, and somehow these aren't insults? You're trying to school me on football despite the fact that you know nothing.

You're trying to tell me I haven't watched every game, when I have. except a Falcons game in 98 or 99.

I don't have an in-depth understanding...

And then insinuating that I'm behind... you of all people.

Of course the biggest joke is that you've probably already reported for abuse or whatever it was because you are getting your butt handed to you so badly regardless of insults. Go cry to the mods or whatever you do.

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 01:25 PM
Barber, Abraham, and Kelly were pretty darn close to elite.

They key to stopping the run in the t-2 is everybody staying in their gap, meaning Hovan and Sims not getting pushed back 5 yards and optimally getting penetration into the backfield. Good strong CBs are great, but look at the Bucs of the early 2000's, they cared about CBs but Barber and Kelly were among the two best yet they got paid around the 30th best in the league. They value CBs but they really value the DL (4 #1's between 95-98 Upshaw, Sapp, M. Jones, McFarland) and still franchised Ahanatu and signed Simeon Rice. In that same time span they drafted Abraham #3, Barber at #3 and Kelly at #2.

I understand that, and my advocacy for them drafting Haden is more of a contingency if they don't land Suh/McCoy and can't trade out of the pick. If that's the case, their best bet is to go with Haden as opposed to Berry, who many Bucs fans are advocating.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:28 PM
You might be right here, if you admit that they weren't even running the Tampa-Two at the time. I'm right either way.


The Tampa-Two isn't used every down like you think it is. It is more of a situational package.

and how has the Buccaneers defense continued to succeed using the Tampa-Two (which is dependent on the D-Line, as you said) when they have one of the worst defensive lines in the NFL...it's because they haven't used the Tampa-Two with any regularity for a long time.

You haven't watched every game, like I have.

You don't have an in-depth understanding of football, like I do.

Quit while you're behind, please.

I think this post by you sums up how this whole conversation so far.

You've boasted about your in=depth understanding of football. Then you state the T-2 is a situational package... yeah 1st-3rd down situations when they aren't in nickle or goaline.

But before you said that, you said you were right either way...that the Bucs weren't even running the T-2.

And the Bucs improved greatly over the last half of 09 defensively despite having perhaps the worst DL in football... why? Ohhh, the T-2... yeah, they ran it and ran it fairly well.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:30 PM
I understand that, and my advocacy for them drafting Haden is more of a contingency if they don't land Suh/McCoy and can't trade out of the pick. If that's the case, their best bet is to go with Haden as opposed to Berry, who many Bucs fans are advocating.

Hey, I don't want Berry, I don't want Haden either... not at that spot anyways... I'm in favor of trading down and getting Brian Price, two years younger and nearly as productive as Suh plus no knee surgeries, more producitve than McCoy and this despite playing in a conference with bigger, more physical and pro style OLs.

We'll know for sure soon, but I think Berry will come in closer to 5'9 190 than his listed 5'11 203... he still can't hold up at SS and Tanard is great as a FS.

brasho
02-24-2010, 01:31 PM
By your 15 minutes of silence and no actual defending of the erroneous facts that you stated, I hereby accept your surrender, Georgie.

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 01:32 PM
Right, and somehow these aren't insults? You're trying to school me on football despite the fact that you know nothing.

You're trying to tell me I haven't watched every game, when I have. except a Falcons game in 98 or 99.

I don't have an in-depth understanding...

And then insinuating that I'm behind... you of all people.

Of course the biggest joke is that you've probably already reported for abuse or whatever it was because you are getting your butt handed to you so badly regardless of insults. Go cry to the mods or whatever you do.

Umm...because they aren't insults? The mods will do whatever they want, I just suggest you quit the personal attacks.

By the way, I prefer to be referred to as Lord Lippard.

I understand that, and my advocacy for them drafting Haden is more of a contingency if they don't land Suh/McCoy and can't trade out of the pick. If that's the case, their best bet is to go with Haden as opposed to Berry, who many Bucs fans are advocating.

I don't think so. If you're working on the assumption that the Buccaneers are running the Tampa-Two, then why would you want Haden over Berry? Haden has tight hips and isn't a smooth athlete. Berry would definitely be less averse to hitting too.

CC.SD
02-24-2010, 01:37 PM
By your 15 minutes of silence and no actual defending of the erroneous facts that you stated, I hereby accept your surrender, Georgie.

In the words of my latest favorite troll, get a life brasho. Personal attacks+some bizarre concept of surrendering=detached from reality. People everywhere you meet will have different opinions than your own. You don't need to make it personal unless you are trying to counteract your sympomatic low blood pressure or something.

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 01:46 PM
Umm...because they aren't insults? The mods will do whatever they want, I just suggest you quit the personal attacks.

By the way, I prefer to be referred to as Lord Lippard.



I don't think so. If you're working on the assumption that the Buccaneers are running the Tampa-Two, then why would you want Haden over Berry? Haden has tight hips and isn't a smooth athlete. Berry would definitely be less averse to hitting too.

Meh...that's just our difference of opinion on him. I think he's very fluid and will only keep getting better at corner as he gets experience (he played QB in HS).

I could see the argument of TB taking Berry instead of Haden if they planned to move him to CB. But again, I wouldn't do it at the 3 spot.