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View Full Version : Mike Mayock has Earl Thomas over Eric Berry


GoodellFTL
02-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Check out his rankings at NFL.com. Is this guy crazy? First, he says McCoy is better than Suh, and now this?

K Train
02-23-2010, 04:25 PM
He goes for the wow factor more often than not

bigbuc
02-23-2010, 04:26 PM
He was also one of the only people that said he wouldn't draft RUN DMC with a top 20 pick... he's looking right on that one. Its Mike Mayock rankings not yours. He likes Thomas and McCoy... you like Suh and Berry... thats what makes drafts so much fun.

LookItsAlDavis
02-23-2010, 04:32 PM
He also said Matt Leinart was a 2nd round pick, and he called the Heyward Bey failure before anyone else.

HeavyLeggedWaistBender
02-23-2010, 04:35 PM
Mayock, like most people, gets nervous when everyone jumps on a bandwagon. Unconventional, not absurd.

no bare feet
02-23-2010, 04:40 PM
He had Ayers number 3 overall alst year

George Lippard
02-23-2010, 04:40 PM
You could justify that if you're looking at them strictly as SS's, not DBs in general.

and Mike Mayock is the best mainstream talent evaluator...he missed badly on Moreno so far though.

FUNBUNCHER
02-23-2010, 04:43 PM
There's no rational argument to place Thomas over Berry, and I say that thinking Earl Thomas has pro-bowl ability at free, but still Berry at this point brings so much more to the table than Thomas; namely his relative superior size and physicality against the run.

Mayock is trying to get people talking about Mayock, thereby promoting his brand and getting his name in front of the other well known media draftniks.

Mayock is no dummy, but he is cynical and premeditated about furthering his bottom line...more dollar bills yall in the Mayock bank account!!

FUNBUNCHER
02-23-2010, 04:44 PM
He had Ayers number 3 overall alst year

This was pure idiocy, sorry.

superman
02-23-2010, 05:01 PM
There's no rational argument to place Thomas over Berry, and I say that thinking Earl Thomas has pro-bowl ability at free, but still Berry at this point brings so much more to the table than Thomas; namely his relative superior size and physicality against the run.

Mayock is trying to get people talking about Mayock, thereby promoting his brand and getting his name in front of the other well known media draftniks.

Mayock is no dummy, but he is cynical and premeditated about furthering his bottom line...more dollar bills yall in the Mayock bank account!!

berry's superior size?

K Train
02-23-2010, 05:03 PM
berry's superior size?

yeah i was wondering about that too, they are both fit to play FS or CB and they both excel in coverage but they are pretty much the same size. berry is more physical against the run but thats not because of his size

Addict
02-23-2010, 05:05 PM
to be fair this isn't out of nowhere, he's been hinting at it for a while. I expect berry to be back ahead of Thomas, but he was very very high on Thomas every time he spoke of him and seemed to think more of him with every ranking.

etk
02-23-2010, 05:06 PM
He was also one of the only people that said he wouldn't draft RUN DMC with a top 20 pick... he's looking right on that one. Its Mike Mayock rankings not yours. He likes Thomas and McCoy... you like Suh and Berry... thats what makes drafts so much fun.

I was one of those "only" ;)

I also have McCoy over Suh.

But THOMAS OVER BERRY!?!?! Madness...

He also said Matt Leinart was a 2nd round pick, and he called the Heyward Bey failure before anyone else.

Not true....myself and many others were on that bandwagon probably before Mayock even saw film on DHB.

Enough tooting my horn for now...

There's no rational argument to place Thomas over Berry, and I say that thinking Earl Thomas has pro-bowl ability at free, but still Berry at this point brings so much more to the table than Thomas; namely his relative superior size and physicality against the run.

Mayock is trying to get people talking about Mayock, thereby promoting his brand and getting his name in front of the other well known media draftniks.

Mayock is no dummy, but he is cynical and premeditated about furthering his bottom line...more dollar bills yall in the Mayock bank account!!

Bingo. The whole post, but the bolded especially. Thomas is very explosive and has great upside once he fills out. Still, Berry is better in every aspect and it's not even close. "There's no rational argument to place Thomas over Berry"...I wouldn't have said it any other way.

Addict
02-23-2010, 05:07 PM
maybe he just hasn't gotten to berry's tape yet.

K Train
02-23-2010, 05:10 PM
i would just like to say i had mcfadden as the 5th best RB that year because of his chicken legs (although he did have the best arm of all the RBs) and never really thought DHB would sniff the first round....al davis doesnt disappoint though lol

thomas may very well be better than berry one day, but like he said above its not rational to have him there now

superman8456
02-23-2010, 05:12 PM
Isn't Mayock's rankings on DB's usually spot on?

Addict
02-23-2010, 05:15 PM
Isn't Mayock's rankings on DB's usually spot on?

he is a former safety, is he not? So he knows the position as well as anyone.

Babylon
02-23-2010, 05:15 PM
Berry looks much tougher against the run and i'll predict quicker than Thomas. Hey i can say i'm good looking that doesnt mean i am.

K Train
02-23-2010, 05:18 PM
i do actually usually like mayock more than most of the other guys....he goes for the big wow every now and then but whatever, not everyone agrees with me and im small time, im sure half the world disagrees with him. he has a job better than a weather man....he can be wrong and still get paid but he gets to watch football instead of clouds

niel89
02-23-2010, 05:20 PM
Its sounds like this is just a move to get some publicity. Wait until closer to the draft for his real rankings.

Babylon
02-23-2010, 05:24 PM
Its sounds like this is just a move to get some publicity. Wait until closer to the draft for his real rankings.


I actually think there are people in here that do a better job of evaluating talent than some of these network types.

TitanHope
02-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Many people thought DHB would bust, but it's not like his career is over yet so who knows?

But yeah, Mayock seems to like to play the shock game a lot lately. Thomas did have a huge year last year though, and ballhawking wise was much better than Berry's.

thebow305
02-23-2010, 05:27 PM
Mayock knows what he's talking about. If you value Kiper or McShay's opinions over his. You're wrong. JMHO.

I had a feeling he would do this eventually, and it's not all THAT crazy if you watched Earl Thomas play this year. I just feel that people are just getting down a little on Eric Berry due to his down Junior Year where he was asked to play closer to the line and support the run more than ever. If you watch his play from his Freshman and Sophomore years, the story is much different. Not sure what he's seeing there that he's rating below Earl Thomas' year. But I believe him either way. He probably is going off Earl Thomas' potential, which seems to be more than Berry's at this point.

I'd still take Berry over Thomas though, no question about it.

nepg
02-23-2010, 05:29 PM
Kind of convenient that the two guys he was right about sucking went to the Raiders...

GoRavens
02-23-2010, 05:34 PM
1) Eric Berry
2) Earl Thomas
3) Chad Jones
4) Taylor Mays
- Mays has bust written all over him.

contento
02-23-2010, 05:40 PM
Relax,


This is just a decoy move to see if McShay will put Thomas ahead of Berry in the next few days...then Mayock will reveal his elaborate plan and proceed to browbeat McShay in the media for being such a copycat d-bag.

prock
02-23-2010, 05:56 PM
I don't even know if I have Thomas over Mays.

Draft King
02-23-2010, 05:58 PM
Mayock also said Brandon Marshall was the next TO when nobody believed. He called Merriman and Ware being beasts. He's the best there is out there, can't believe so many people hate on him.

no bare feet
02-23-2010, 06:02 PM
Mayock also said Brandon Marshall was the next TO when nobody believed. He called Merriman and Ware being beasts. He's the best there is out there, can't believe so many people hate on him.

He also said Robert Ayers was the 2nd coming of Reggie White.

princefielder28
02-23-2010, 06:03 PM
I can't say I'm shocked. Berry is a little overhyped and Earl Thomas' ball skills are very intriguing. He's done stuff like this in the past and it has worked out in his favor. Just because Berry is everyone's consensus #1 safety doesn't mean he'll work out and Mayock obviously sees stuff on film that makes him get that special feeling for Thomas and not so much for Berry.

TitanHope
02-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Kind of convenient that the two guys he was right about sucking went to the Raiders...

He didn't know the Raiders were going to pick them though. Well, McFadden to Oakland was pretty easy to see, but it was expected that the Raiders would take Crabtree if they picked a WR...until Al Davis reminded everyone that he's, well, Al Davis. ;)

FUNBUNCHER
02-23-2010, 06:04 PM
Nobody is really hating on Mayock IMO, but placing Earl Thomas over Eric Berry is a controversial opinion.

The reason people have posted in this thread at all is because so many respect Mayock's pre-draft analysis.

EDIT: Some players are 'hyped',( JPP), and some players have EARNED their 'hype', ( Suh and Berry).

I've only read so far that Mayock has Earl Thomas rated above Berry, but I'd love to hear/read his breakdown about why he feels this way.

Draft King
02-23-2010, 06:04 PM
He also said Robert Ayers was the 2nd coming of Reggie White.

I don't recall him saying that, although he was extremely high on Ayers. Who knows maybe he will still be great, he's been in the NFL for one year. Point is he's on far more often than he's not.

George Lippard
02-23-2010, 06:04 PM
He also said Robert Ayers was the 2nd coming of Reggie White.

He may be. He is not in a system that plays to his talents.

Then again, he was absolutely in love with Moreno, and NJX will tell you how well that is working out.

Fact of the matter is, it has only been 1 season. You give it three.


I still think that Mayock is unquestionably the best mainstream talent evaluator out there.

TitanHope
02-23-2010, 06:07 PM
I was mortified when I found out the Broncos were gonna play Ayers at OLB.

Nobody is really hating on Mayock IMO, but placing Earl Thomas over Eric Berry is a controversial opinion.

The reason people have posted in this thread at all is because so many respect Mayock's pre-draft analysis.

Pretty much sums up the way I'm seeing it.

no bare feet
02-23-2010, 06:10 PM
Mayock is usually good, but even I have missed.

YAYareaRB
02-23-2010, 06:12 PM
as far as I'm concernced Berry and Thomas are 1a and 1b. They're both rather beastly and both are almost sure things in the NFL.

Complex
02-23-2010, 06:17 PM
He was also one of the only people that said he wouldn't draft RUN DMC with a top 20 pick... he's looking right on that one. Its Mike Mayock rankings not yours. He likes Thomas and McCoy... you like Suh and Berry... thats what makes drafts so much fun.

Everyone knew DMC was a Raider way before the draft after that there not much hope.

Everyone knew Heyward Bey he was gonna be a bust and I still believe in Leinart he did have a okay rookie season.



Mayock also said Brandon Marshall was the next TO when nobody believed. He called Merriman and Ware being beasts. He's the best there is out there, can't believe so many people hate on him.

Wasn't Brandon Marshall in trouble alot before he got into the NFL? I'm pretty thats why he got drafted in 4th round

YAYareaRB
02-23-2010, 06:21 PM
Wasn't Brandon Marshall in trouble alot before he got into the NFL? I'm pretty thats why he got drafted in 4th round

Yeah two years before he was drafted, arrested for assaulting an officer.

ATLDirtyBirds
02-23-2010, 06:26 PM
Let's not forget Mayock was all over Matt Ryan's jock as well.

George Lippard
02-23-2010, 06:33 PM
I'm telling you ATL, Mayock is ******* legit. He hits a lot more than he misses, especially in the first round.

Morton
02-23-2010, 06:45 PM
Here's the thing about Thomas. He actually has ball skills (as in, interception and ball-catching skills) that are on par with Eric Berry or even better. His ability to jump routes is very similar to Asante Samuel's, and in the NFL he has, arguably, a stronger potential as a ballhawk than Berry. Berry is good in this respect also, but just from watching tape of last year, Thomas has shown flashes of elite route-jumping ability.

Another thing about Thomas vs. Berry is that there is a mistaken perception that Berry is "bigger". Watch them at the combine - I will be shocked if there is much of a difference in size between the two players. I bet Berry is alot closer to 5'9" than people realize.

Obviously Berry shines in run support alot better than Thomas, but if you watch their game film closely the potential of both of these players is strikingly similar in the "ballhawk" category. I wouldn't be surprised if Thomas has just as much success, or more, than Berry in the NFL.

That having been said, I still think Berry is the better all-around prospect at safety because of his tackling and run support strengths, BUT I fully understand why Mayock would rank Thomas above Berry.

Someone else may have said this but it's very similar to the McCoy/Suh situation @ DT. Thomas is McCoy to Berry's Suh.

619
02-23-2010, 07:02 PM
Mayock is usually dead on when it comes to evaluating DBs. Kinda odd, though, because I read somewhere on these forums that a few teams were looking at a possible position change to corner for Thomas.

Addict
02-23-2010, 07:25 PM
Mayock is usually dead on when it comes to evaluating DBs. Kinda odd, though, because I read somewhere on these forums that a few teams were looking at a possible position change to corner for Thomas.

he mocked Revis as high as 7th overall to the Vikes in his year IIRC.

CC.SD
02-23-2010, 07:35 PM
I don't care about Mayock's track record, Berry>Thomas and it's not close.

And now, the creepy Starburst guy:

wYX_zhlTDr8

BTW that's my war chant in Call of Duty

cajuncorey
02-23-2010, 08:06 PM
mayock knows everything when it comes to the draft. after the 2008 draft i will never doubt him.

prock
02-23-2010, 08:08 PM
I don't recall him saying that, although he was extremely high on Ayers. Who knows maybe he will still be great, he's been in the NFL for one year. Point is he's on far more often than he's not.

you would need more than like 3 examples to prove he is right more than he isnt, but every draft "expert" is wrong on a lot of prospects, so i dont take his opinion seriously this early.

Draft King
02-23-2010, 08:09 PM
you would need more than like 3 examples to prove he is right more than he isnt, but every draft "expert" is wrong on a lot of prospects, so i dont take his opinion seriously this early.

If you want me to put in a ton of effort and dig deep I will. I just said some that came from the top of my head.

prock
02-23-2010, 08:16 PM
If you want me to put in a ton of effort and dig deep I will. I just said some that came from the top of my head.

and im saying draft "experts" are wrong very often, so no matter what they say, you should form your own opinion on each player. there is no way that his guy seriously thinks that a red shirt sophomore safety who isnt a strong tackler is better than berry, the best DB prospect in years.

BaLLiN
02-23-2010, 08:17 PM
Earl is good but right now he is all about potential going into the NFL imo. hes a safety playing with corner size. Every mental skill, even his burst to close, are great; but his size (estimating 5'10'' 190 lbs) and from the looks of him he cannot hold up against the run in the NFL, and will need time either to transition to Corner (which would be a waste) or to hit the weights.

My assumption is that Earl is more fluid than Berry in Mayock's eyes, otherwise there is no reason to put him ahead. Berry has shown he is solid vs the run, makes plays in the passing game, and really is an inforcing prescense in the secondary that quarterbacks tended to avoid. Berry's arm length and bulk set him up to the superior all around safety at the moment, but even though i dont agree Earl hasn't reached his full potential whereas Berry seems to have.

princefielder28
02-23-2010, 08:18 PM
What are everyone else's safety rankings right now???

Here's mine....

1. Eric Berry* :: Tennessee
2. Earl Thomas* :: Texas
3. Chad Jones* :: LSU
4. Taylor Mays :: USC
5. Nate Allen :: South Florida
6. Kendrick Lewis :: Mississippi
7. Morgan Burnett* :: Georgia Tech
8. Reshad Jones* :: Georgia
9. Larry Asante :: Nebraska
10. Major Wright* :: Florida

Malaka
02-23-2010, 08:23 PM
Mine would probably be...

1. Eric Berry
2. Earl Thomas
3. Taylor Mays
4. Chad Jones (I think a good combine will throw him over Mays especially if he outperforms Mays)
5. Nate Allen
6. Morgan Burnett
7. Kam Chancellor
8. Major Wright
9. Larry Asante
10. Reshad Jones

619
02-23-2010, 08:30 PM
From what I know, Mayock doesn't place much emphasis on previous years' tape. That could be part of the explanation, because I'm having a difficult time coming up with one.

M.O.T.H.
02-23-2010, 08:32 PM
He was also one of the only people that said he wouldn't draft RUN DMC with a top 20 pick... he's looking right on that one. Its Mike Mayock rankings not yours. He likes Thomas and McCoy... you like Suh and Berry... thats what makes drafts so much fun.

He also absolutely hated Mo Drew.

Cant be right all the time.

TitanHope
02-23-2010, 08:32 PM
I haven't really analyzed the safeties, but I'll say:

Tier 1
Eric Berry, Tennessee

Tier 2
Taylor Mays, USC
Earl Thomas, Texas
Chad Jones, LSU

Tier 3
Nate Allen, South Florida

Tier 4
Morgan Burnett, Georgia Tech
Reshad Jones, Georgia
Darrell Stuckey, Kansas
Larry Asante, Nebraska
Major Wright, Florida
Kendrick Lewis, Ole Miss

Went with tiers, but that's a rough draft ranking as well. I'm a Morgan Burnett fan as well.

Thread Killer
02-23-2010, 08:34 PM
Why is it that when anyone has a different opinion than the masses they are wrong or just trying to get attention?

Does anybody really believe that everyone is going to agree on these players?

M.O.T.H.
02-23-2010, 08:35 PM
Well when it comes to Berry...the masses tend to agree.

kwilk103
02-23-2010, 08:38 PM
link to mayocks rankings?

K Train
02-23-2010, 08:40 PM
i found this...berry is #1 lol

http://www.nfl.com/seniorbowl/story?id=09000d5d815ee2f1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Grizzlegom
02-23-2010, 08:47 PM
Its on the NFL's main website, just search for Mike Mayock and it pops right up.

also he has Dorin Dickerson as the 3rd best TE and Joe McKnight as the 5th best RB. Mayock is just as hit or miss as Kiper or Wright...

TACKLE
02-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Based off some things he said previously, he LOVES Earl Thomas's range and ball skills. I think he felt that Berry was better suited in a rover-type role but felt that Thomas may be the better pure safety.

Also, its true what somebody said that Mayock doesn't watch much film from the previous season. He probably hasn't seen much of Berry's film as a sophomore.

George Lippard
02-23-2010, 08:52 PM
Mayock right about now.

http://nrscope.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/happy20man20looking20at20computer20small.jpg

K Train
02-23-2010, 08:53 PM
i dont get how pre senior bowl he had them ranked berry 1, thomas 2....but in 29 days he changed his mind without either of them seeing the field for any reason lol

Saints-Tigers
02-23-2010, 08:54 PM
Now everyone is going to start jumping the Thomas wagon, since Mayock is never wrong around here.

K Train
02-23-2010, 08:59 PM
Now everyone is going to start jumping the Thomas wagon, since Mayock is never wrong around here.

i was first on board that wagon....not over berry but id love the steelers to take thomas at 18, hes the second player i would want there besides bulaga who will probably be gone

superman
02-23-2010, 09:04 PM
i'd take thomas at 12 (because the dolphins have undersized lb's at safety now)

but that's just because berry will be long gone

Saints-Tigers
02-23-2010, 09:06 PM
Oh yea,don't get me wrong, Thomas is a heck of a player, but he's basically Eric Berry but a lesser version.

CC.SD
02-23-2010, 09:08 PM
Now everyone is going to start jumping the Thomas wagon, since Mayock is never wrong around here.

i'd take thomas at 12 (because the dolphins have undersized lb's at safety now)

but that's just because berry will be long gone

Wow, Saints! :)

ElectricEye
02-23-2010, 09:38 PM
Mayock right about now.

http://nrscope.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/happy20man20looking20at20computer20small.jpg

Pretty much.

Very much disagree with this, but the guy knows his stuff. People forget that his rankings tend to move around a bit, especially before the combine. Just because Thomas is ahead of Berry right now doesn't mean he'll be there by the end of the process. Personally, I don't see anything Thomas does either athletically or skill wise better than Berry, but Mayock does have some pull and this thread is testament to that.

etk
02-23-2010, 09:48 PM
Mayock also said Brandon Marshall was the next TO when nobody believed. He called Merriman and Ware being beasts. He's the best there is out there, can't believe so many people hate on him.

I don't remember Mayock back then, but I was BIG on Marshall. I can't see why one wouldn't be, he's an unbelievable athlete and looked great at the East/West game.

btw TitanHope you SEVERELY underrate Major Wright.

EDIT: I guess everyone underrates Major Wright...sigh.

thetedginnshow
02-23-2010, 09:54 PM
I think Thomas is horribly overrated. But then again, Burnett is my number two Safety, so I'm probably different than most. Mayock tends to like certain things in players though, so I'm sure it's just a case of Thomas bringing more of what he thinks the position should be about.

junior2430
02-23-2010, 10:03 PM
He also said Robert Ayers was the 2nd coming of Reggie White.

And Ayers actually had a nice rookie season. Sure he only had 6 sacks, but he was a step away from having a lot more. And towards the end of the season, he put consistant pressure on the QB. In fact, he was pretty much the only one getting to Manning when they played the colts.

thebow305
02-23-2010, 10:05 PM
1. Eric Berry
2. Earl Thomas
3. Taylor Mays
4. Chad Jones
5. Nate Allen
6. Kam Chancellor
7. Reshad Jones
8. Morgan Burnett
9. Major Wright
10. Chris Cook (S/CB)
11. Larry Asante
12. Myron Rolle
13. Darrell Stuckey
14. Robert Johnson
15. Kendrick Lewis

Thumper
02-23-2010, 10:16 PM
Personally and I said this a few days ago, I like Earl Thomas and I like Eric Berry as well but I think that Eric Berry is the more complete safety but they're about equal in terms of playmaking skills, in my opinion I think Earl Thomas can make an easier transition to CB if need be and I think that Earl Thomas will probably test better at the combine.

Someone made the Asante Samuel comparison already in here, he jumps routes extremely well and he is smart and he knows when to fall off a route and in my opinion Earl Thomas has better hips, is faster, can jump higher, is more agile and can play in a zone coverage scheme.

The only knock on Thomas (and its a big knock) is that he is a liability against the run and that is what makes Eric Berry better than Earl Thomas, Eric Berry is more well rounded, can play the FS spot just as good in coverage and not be a liability, he seems like he has more interest in playing the run, he seems like he is more of a leader and he seems like he cares more. Plus Eric Berry isn't a scrub at CB either, he could project really nicely over there, not as good as Earl Thomas (again just my opinion) but he could definitely be a very good starter at CB in the NFL.

superpack84
02-23-2010, 10:44 PM
I was expecting to see this happen. He was really high on him from the early goings.

Scott Wright
02-23-2010, 10:59 PM
Not sure how you can do it... Berry and Thomas compare favorably in the coverage department but it isn't even close when it comes to run support, hitting, tackling, etc.

RaiderNation
02-23-2010, 11:01 PM
Everybody needs to realize that Mike Mayock needs attention. Im sure before the draft Berry will be back up to where he belongs.

CC.SD
02-23-2010, 11:05 PM
Not sure how you can do it... Berry and Thomas compare favorably in the coverage department but it isn't even close when it comes to run support, hitting, tackling, etc.

Mayock just got Scowned.

ViperVisor
02-23-2010, 11:18 PM
Mayock just got Scowned.

http://i.imgur.com/bCdVu.jpg

Clarkw267
02-23-2010, 11:50 PM
Personally and I said this a few days ago, I like Earl Thomas and I like Eric Berry as well but I think that Eric Berry is the more complete safety but they're about equal in terms of playmaking skills, in my opinion I think Earl Thomas can make an easier transition to CB if need be and I think that Earl Thomas will probably test better at the combine.

Someone made the Asante Samuel comparison already in here, he jumps routes extremely well and he is smart and he knows when to fall off a route and in my opinion Earl Thomas has better hips, is faster, can jump higher, is more agile and can play in a zone coverage scheme.

The only knock on Thomas (and its a big knock) is that he is a liability against the run and that is what makes Eric Berry better than Earl Thomas, Eric Berry is more well rounded, can play the FS spot just as good in coverage and not be a liability, he seems like he has more interest in playing the run, he seems like he is more of a leader and he seems like he cares more. Plus Eric Berry isn't a scrub at CB either, he could project really nicely over there, not as good as Earl Thomas (again just my opinion) but he could definitely be a very good starter at CB in the NFL.

I like Earl Thomas a bunch, but he's not the same level of athlete as Berry IMO. Berry is going to blow up the combine. The guy he is working with in preparation for the combine says they are aiming for an electronic 4.33 or better.

Now both can play CB if a team wanted to try them there from what I've seen, I just feel Berry carries more versatility. Thomas' ball skills are absolutely amazing though.

Thumper
02-23-2010, 11:59 PM
I like Earl Thomas a bunch, but he's not the same level of athlete as Berry IMO. Berry is going to blow up the combine. The guy he is working with in preparation for the combine says they are aiming for an electronic 4.33 or better.

Now both can play CB if a team wanted to try them there from what I've seen, I just feel Berry carries more versatility. Thomas' ball skills are absolutely amazing though.

There is a difference between aiming for and actually achieving it, Eric Berry is a superb athlete and is probably a little bit more football smart but go back and watch Earl Thomas, that guy's range, speed, acceleration and ability to change directions are extremely good, I think he is the fastest safety in this class. Just a quick little sidenote, judging his ability with the ball in his hands and his quickness and speed, who else thinks Earl Thomas has punt returner capabilities?

junior2430
02-24-2010, 12:20 AM
1. Eric Berry
2. Taylor Mays
3. Chad Jones
4. Earl Thomas
5. Myron Rolle
6. Nate Allen
7. Major Wright
8. Larry Asante
9. Darrell Stuckey
10. T.J. Ward

sup3rdup3r
02-24-2010, 12:49 AM
http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/audio/Mike-Mayock-Conference-Call/f11fdacf-deb5-4372-b37c-fc2d12413b28#?id=f11fdacf-deb5-4372-b37c-fc2d12413b28

He did an 80 minute conference call with reporters where he went over nearly every team and all the top prospects. I haven't listened to it but I know he goes over both Berry and Thomas in it.

sup3rdup3r
02-24-2010, 12:51 AM
i dont get how pre senior bowl he had them ranked berry 1, thomas 2....but in 29 days he changed his mind without either of them seeing the field for any reason lol

That's because they're juniors and he probably hadn't watched tape on them yet. Hes said in the past that he doesn't watch much junior tape until after they declare. I think he ranks juniors based on industry opinion until he watches tape on them.

vikes_28
02-24-2010, 01:03 AM
1. Eric Berry
2. Taylor Mays
3. Chad Jones
4. Earl Thomas
5. Myron Rolle
6. Nate Allen
7. Major Wright
8. Larry Asante
9. Darrell Stuckey
10. T.J. Ward

I'd make a list like this:

1. Earl Thomas
2. Eric Berry
3. Taylor Mays
4. Chad Jones
5. Nate Allen
6. Morgan Burnett
7. Rashed Jones
8. Major Wright
9. Darrel Stuckey
10. Myron Rolle

I'd agree that Thomas is better than Berry. I truly believe that Berry will have injury problems throughout his career, which will in turn hinder his chances of becoming a top flight S/ CB.

Scott Wright
02-24-2010, 01:08 AM
Another question that comes to mind for me on this topic: Does that mean Mayock thinks Thomas is a Top 10 talent in this draft or that Berry is a late first rounder?

vikes_28
02-24-2010, 01:12 AM
Another question that comes to mind for me on this topic: Does that mean Mayock thinks Thomas is a Top 10 talent in this draft or that Berry is a late first rounder?

To tell you the truth, I don't see any safeties going in the top 10 this year.

sup3rdup3r
02-24-2010, 01:29 AM
Another question that comes to mind for me on this topic: Does that mean Mayock thinks Thomas is a Top 10 talent in this draft or that Berry is a late first rounder?

According to the conference call, he has him as the #12 player in the country. Said he loves Berry, just loves Thomas more(has Thomas as the #10 player in the country).

Says Haden is a more impact player than both because of his position(the questioned had to about Berry v Hadden).

AntoinCD
02-24-2010, 05:14 AM
While I don't necessarily agree with Mayock I'm not getting why so many people are bashing him. In scouting circles there are going to be disagreements. Just because one person is the number one prospect for the majority doesn't mean everyone should conform. Obviously he has seen either a major flaw in Berry or something about Thomas that translates well. The guy likes someone better than other people it happens. And that guy has a pretty good track record

GoRavens
02-24-2010, 05:18 AM
Myron Rolle > Taylor Mays

Addict
02-24-2010, 05:34 AM
To tell you the truth, I don't see any safeties going in the top 10 this year.

really? Berry will most likely run sub-4.45 he'll be a top ten pick for sure. Maybe even top 5.

Another question that comes to mind for me on this topic: Does that mean Mayock thinks Thomas is a Top 10 talent in this draft or that Berry is a late first rounder?

judging from what he's been saying, I think he's just a big believer in Thomas. Maybe top ten. Although it could be like he thougth Mendenhall was teh best RB in his class, never in his mocks did mendenhall go before McFadden, but he always said that he felt Mendenhall was better than Run DMC.

LickaMahfeetz
02-24-2010, 05:37 AM
Not sure how you can do it... Berry and Thomas compare favorably in the coverage department but it isn't even close when it comes to run support, hitting, tackling, etc.
That's pretty much it from where I'm sitting.

Razor
02-24-2010, 05:56 AM
Usually I think Mayock is spot on when evaluating DBs. This time, I'm not so sure. Personally I'd take Berry over Thomas any day, he has the ability to be great. Thomas is great in coverage, but I think he'll have to make the switch to CB in the NFL.

Big_Pete
02-24-2010, 06:49 AM
I don't think Earl Thomas is a good fit at FS, he just doesn't seem physical enough in the tackling department to play there in the NFL on a consistent basis. I do think he is a very good CB prospect though.

Berry on the other hand is someone who could play FS imho.

K Train
02-24-2010, 08:13 AM
thomas may have to make the move to corner, macho harris got abused at FS last year for the eagles cause he was a smurf out there. i just like thomas' range and closing speed

descendency
02-24-2010, 09:02 AM
Myron Rolle > Taylor Mays

Mays just needs coaching. USC hasn't exactly been the hotbed for DB coaches in the past few years. Mays, under 1 week of NFL coaching, was already playing the ball better.

Taylor Mays could be a steal if he is drafted by a team with a good set of DB coaches.

Myron Rolle simply is not a play maker. Doesn't have the upper tier athleticism to be one. He'll be a safety in the NFL but I doubt anyone will be voting him to a Pro-bowl.

As far as Mayock is concerned, I don't know that he's doing it for shock value. I mean, the average viewer of his product is a draft nerd. How many of those are there? The average football watcher doesn't know who Eric Berry or Earl Thomas is. I think he's doing it because he saw something on film and partly because Berry had a "down year" because no one would throw at him.

Woody56
02-24-2010, 09:32 AM
And Ayers actually had a nice rookie season. Sure he only had 6 sacks, but he was a step away from having a lot more. And towards the end of the season, he put consistant pressure on the QB. In fact, he was pretty much the only one getting to Manning when they played the colts.

Ayers had 0 sacks his rookie year

K Train
02-24-2010, 09:36 AM
Ayers had 0 sacks his rookie year

apparently 19 tackles in 16 games=6 sacks

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 10:03 AM
I really think this is more of a case of hyping a player up he really likes. Kiper is NOTORIOUS for this, and it looks like Mayock is taking a page out of his book. As the draft gets closer, they'll both adjust their rankings to reflect how they really feel.

I will say, though, that Mayock is the best mainstream talent evaluator for skill position players, especially DBs. On the other hand, he's a horrible offensive and defensive line evaluator.

FUNBUNCHER
02-24-2010, 10:23 AM
Ayers had 0 sacks his rookie year

Thank you!! When I read 6 sacks, I thought I was going crazy!!

Mayock just whiffed big time on Ayers because he had one 'good' game against the Tide and Andre Smith.

Mayock made a statement that in 10 years, Ayers would be the best defensive player from the 2009 draft. One down, 9 more years to go!!

I have a hard time with players going in the top 15 who did practically nothing in 3-4 years in college, which was Robert Ayers profile at Tennessee.

Mayock still has a big football brain, no hate at all.

I can't wait to see official measurements and times for both Berry and Thomas; I predict that Berry is closer to 200#, Thomas maybe 190#. I think some team looks to convert Thomas to corner which would be
pure G-E-N-I-U-S.

Babylon
02-24-2010, 10:46 AM
I dont see the comparison at all between Thomas and Berry. Berry really is the whole package where Thomas i thought showed in the NC game he isnt very strong against the run. Last year they wanted to hype Aaron Maybin who came out too early, maybe this year it's Thomas.

AntoinCD
02-24-2010, 11:07 AM
I dont see the comparison at all between Thomas and Berry. Berry really is the whole package where Thomas i thought showed in the NC game he isnt very strong against the run. Last year they wanted to hype Aaron Maybin who came out too early, maybe this year it's Thomas.

Im not sure I would say that Berry is the whole package but he is very close. The one knock on Berry is also a knock on Thomas though and thats whether they have the size to really be effective in run support(Berry will not be afraid to put his hat on RBs and TEs etc but it may cause injuries). It will be interesting to see how both weigh in. Really you dont like to see Safetys under 200lbs because of the punishment they take and dish out and the toll it takes

Babylon
02-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Im not sure I would say that Berry is the whole package but he is very close. The one knock on Berry is also a knock on Thomas though and thats whether they have the size to really be effective in run support(Berry will not be afraid to put his hat on RBs and TEs etc but it may cause injuries). It will be interesting to see how both weigh in. Really you dont like to see Safetys under 200lbs because of the punishment they take and dish out and the toll it takes

Berry looks like he could probably carry about 210. I just see the Ed Reed potential there. Thomas is going to be good but i think he's getting hyped up too much here. I'd take Taylor Mays over him and maybe even Chad jones.

Grizzlegom
02-24-2010, 11:13 AM
I am also on board the Thomas may need to move to CB train. I think Mayock puts a lot of emphasis on coverage ability of DBs and in that regard i can understand why he's so high on Thomas.

K Train
02-24-2010, 11:14 AM
I dont see the comparison at all between Thomas and Berry. Berry really is the whole package where Thomas i thought showed in the NC game he isnt very strong against the run. Last year they wanted to hype Aaron Maybin who came out too early, maybe this year it's Thomas.

i hated maybin, as anything besides maybe an eventual OLB hes not really much of a player considering he gets blocked so easy....i cant believe the bills took maybin over orakpo, i thought maybin could have possibly lasted til the second round. i might be in love with earl thomas though, its too early but id love the steelers to get him at 18 and hes been in my top 3 at that spot since he declared, which i didnt think he was going to.

berry is the more complete package though, and thomas is a ***** against the run...no doubt

bigbluedefense
02-24-2010, 11:17 AM
I think they're very close. I'm not surprised that Mayock would prefer Thomas. Thomas is a beast.

They are 1A and 1B in my eyes. I don't see that much of a difference between them. I love them both, and would take Berry over Thomas, but Thomas is closer to him than people think.

I think when Mayock makes his final rankings, thats ultimately the point that he'll hammer home.

CashmoneyDrew
02-24-2010, 11:48 AM
Thank you!! When I read 6 sacks, I thought I was going crazy!!

Mayock just whiffed big time on Ayers because he had one 'good' game against the Tide and Andre Smith.

Mayock made a statement that in 10 years, Ayers would be the best defensive player from the 2009 draft. One down, 9 more years to go!!

I have a hard time with players going in the top 15 who did practically nothing in 3-4 years in college, which was Robert Ayers profile at Tennessee.


No. Robert Ayers was very good in college. He's just woefully miscast in a 3-4. I was on the Robert Ayers train before Mayock. Now I don't disagree that he wasn't a top 15 player, but he was an early second round talent in my eyes.

DeathbyStat
02-24-2010, 11:50 AM
I would put him over Mays...not over Berry

FUNBUNCHER
02-24-2010, 12:18 PM
No. Robert Ayers was very good in college. He's just woefully miscast in a 3-4. I was on the Robert Ayers train before Mayock. Now I don't disagree that he wasn't a top 15 player, but he was an early second round talent in my eyes.

Ayers I believe wasn't even a starter until his senior year.

descendency
02-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Ayers had 0 sacks his rookie year

I was starting to wonder if I miss-remembered how bad he was during the season. I guess not.

Ayers was not a smart pick by the Broncos. Stiff in coverage, not really elite in terms of athleticism. = LDE in 43. Trading him for Chris Long could do a wonder for both the Rams and Broncos.

This is likely a case of someone who interviewed REALLY well and got mis-drafted.

CashmoneyDrew
02-24-2010, 12:31 PM
Ayers I believe wasn't even a starter until his senior year.

So what's your point? That doesn't mean he wasn't a player. Phil Fulmer was notorious for starting upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen.

descendency
02-24-2010, 12:35 PM
Tom Brady struggled to be a starter because Drew Stanton was at Michigan. Starter college doesn't mean anything. Lots of players go under-used in the system and then go on to major NFL success. The opposite can be true as well.

edit: Sometimes work ethics change too...

George Lippard
02-24-2010, 12:36 PM
Tom Brady struggled to be a starter because Drew Stanton was at Michigan. Starter college doesn't mean anything. Lots of players go under-used in the system and then go on to major NFL success. The opposite can be true as well.

edit: Sometimes work ethics change too...

http://spartansportsunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/drewster.jpg

brat316
02-24-2010, 12:40 PM
Back to Mayock.


Who were some guys he was high on and he hit the nail on the head?

K Train
02-24-2010, 12:52 PM
Tom Brady struggled to be a starter because Drew Stanton was at Michigan. Starter college doesn't mean anything. Lots of players go under-used in the system and then go on to major NFL success. The opposite can be true as well.

edit: Sometimes work ethics change too...

come on dude, he sat behind brian greise at michigan, brady graduated from michigan and was drafted into the NFL 3 years before stanton enrolled at michigan STATE as a freshman

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 12:54 PM
come on dude, he sat behind brian greise at michigan, brady graduated from michigan and was drafted into the NFL 3 years before stanton enrolled at michigan STATE as a freshman

He's referring to Drew Henson. Henson and Brady split time as the starter at Michigan.

K Train
02-24-2010, 12:55 PM
He's referring to Drew Henson. Henson and Brady split time as the starter at Michigan.

ok, well that makes sense lol

RealityCheck
02-24-2010, 12:55 PM
If Thomas > Berry, then Mays > Berry, because Mays > Thomas.

Clarkw267
02-24-2010, 01:00 PM
If Thomas > Berry, then Mays > Berry, because Mays > Thomas.

Quite simply.... no.

Mays may have to transition to OLB in the pros. He's pretty bad in deep coverage. He's a big, fast athlete though, so we'll keep hearing how great he is from guys like you when his college production doesn't warrant it.

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Back to Mayock.


Who were some guys he was high on and he hit the nail on the head?

TBH, I remember more guys that he didn't like that he nailed right on the head.

He didn't like McFadden (for the same reason I did) - because he has skinny legs and produces no leg drive on contact.

He correctly predicted Aaron Rogers' freefall in the draft.

He said Corey Webster would be worthless in a zone or off-man scheme. Said he was a bump and run corner and would only be successful in a scheme like that. Nailed that one.

I also remember him being really high on Brandon Flowers.

Babylon
02-24-2010, 01:01 PM
http://spartansportsunleashed.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/drewster.jpg

Only proves how much the Spartans intimidate the Wolverines:)

bigbluedefense
02-24-2010, 01:11 PM
TBH, I remember more guys that he didn't like that he nailed right on the head.

He didn't like McFadden (for the same reason I did) - because he has skinny legs and produces no leg drive on contact.

He correctly predicted Aaron Rogers' freefall in the draft.

He said Corey Webster would be worthless in a zone or off-man scheme. Said he was a bump and run corner and would only be successful in a scheme like that. Nailed that one.

I also remember him being really high on Brandon Flowers.

*sigh*

And we're running Tampa 2....

Ross sucks in off zone as well. Terrell Thomas is a beast who can play any scheme though. But still....we have 3 great press man corners and we're gonna run Tampa 2...

:(

Addict
02-24-2010, 01:11 PM
TBH, I remember more guys that he didn't like that he nailed right on the head.

He didn't like McFadden (for the same reason I did) - because he has skinny legs and produces no leg drive on contact.

He correctly predicted Aaron Rogers' freefall in the draft.

He said Corey Webster would be worthless in a zone or off-man scheme. Said he was a bump and run corner and would only be successful in a scheme like that. Nailed that one.

I also remember him being really high on Brandon Flowers.

very, very high on Flowers, very high on Donte Whitner (I believe the only one to accurately predict Bills taking him, too). Very very high on Revis.

He thought the world of Matt Ryan (defended him with vigor). He's been right a lot recently.

Clarkw267
02-24-2010, 01:19 PM
very, very high on Flowers, very high on Donte Whitner (I believe the only one to accurately predict Bills taking him, too). Very very high on Revis.

He thought the world of Matt Ryan (defended him with vigor). He's been right a lot recently.

High on Gosder Cherilus.
High on BJ Raji
High on ... wait he went to BC.

He is biased towards players that come from his alma matter. He happened to hit on Ryan, but I'm not so sure it was from a pure football analysis.

CC.SD
02-24-2010, 01:43 PM
High on Gosder Cherilus.
High on BJ Raji
High on ... wait he went to BC.

He is biased towards players that come from his alma matter. He happened to hit on Ryan, but I'm not so sure it was from a pure football analysis.

All those guys were great prospects though. I don't know what the hell is going on with Cherilus.

Addict
02-24-2010, 01:47 PM
High on Gosder Cherilus.
High on BJ Raji
High on ... wait he went to BC.

He is biased towards players that come from his alma matter. He happened to hit on Ryan, but I'm not so sure it was from a pure football analysis.

pretty much everyone was high on BJ Raji and as a RT Cherilus got plenty of love. Also I was merely illustrating a point and Mayock was remarkably high on Ryan so it felt wrong to leave him out.

All those guys were great prospects though. I don't know what the hell is going on with Cherilus.

The Lions are going on with Cherilus.

CC.SD
02-24-2010, 01:58 PM
pretty much everyone was high on BJ Raji and as a RT Cherilus got plenty of love. Also I was merely illustrating a point and Mayock was remarkably high on Ryan so it felt wrong to leave him out.



The Lions are going on with Cherilus.

Yeah but I have read from a bunch of sources that he is struggling and for a while his starting spot was in jeopardy. I'd be lying if I said I saw a ton of Lions games last year. Is he developing at least?

SRogers92
02-24-2010, 04:13 PM
I'm going to be an ass and "diss" Mike Mayock for a second ... His 2008 rankings:

Top 5 Interior OL(did he hit on any of these?)?:

1. Branden Albert Virginia
2. Chilo Rachal USC
3. Jeremy Zuttah Rutgers
4. Mike Pollak Arizona State
5. Roy Schuening Oregon State


Safeties:

Has Tyrell Johnson over Kenny Phillips ...


Top 5 OLBs(again - any of these?):

1. Keith Rivers USC
2. Xavier Adibi Virginia Tech
3. Tavares Gooden Miami (Fla.)
4. Stanford Keglar Purdue
5. Wesley Woodyard Kentucky


RBs:

He has Mendenhall and McFadden over Jamaal Charles, Jonathan Stewart, and Felix Jones ... guess he didn't dislike McFadden that much after all?


Top 5 DEs(none of these were right, lol):

1. Chris Long Virginia
2. Vernon Gholston Ohio State
3. Derrick Harvey Florida
4. Phillip Merling Clemson
5. Calais Campbell Miami (Fla.)


Top 5 DTs(maybe he was right on Ellis):

1. Glenn Dorsey LSU
2. Sedrick Ellis USC
3. Kentwan Balmer North Carolina
4. Trevor Laws Notre Dame
5. Dre Moore Maryland




This was to basically to stop the nonsense that Mayock is right more often then wrong ... most draft "experts" including us on these forums are wrong more often then right ... I try to just grade a few prospects every year that I have a "feeling" on and I've been right 90% of the time ... trying to grade every prospect in the draft, you're going to be wrong more often then not ... but -- seriously -- lets not mistake Mayock for a guru ...

SRogers92
02-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Gosder Cherilus has regressed, btw ...

Looked really good then last year fell apart ... hard to really decide who's fault that is, though ... Rookie QB? No talent at WR? No Running Game? It's a combo of things ... we got behind a lot, too, so we had to pass 30+ times SEVERAL times with a rookie QB ...

So -- we're giving him another chance since has looked good at one point and time ... just not recently.

Thumper
02-24-2010, 04:38 PM
thomas may have to make the move to corner, macho harris got abused at FS last year for the eagles cause he was a smurf out there. i just like thomas' range and closing speed

Macho Harris was abused? Thats news to me, don't get me wrong he could've played way better but he wasn't abused because he was small. At one point early in the year Sheldon Brown called Macho Harris the tone setter for the Eagles secondary he was so physical. I will never accuse Macho of not being physical, that guy mixed it up in coverage and was really emotional, example A would be (I think it was the Bucs game) where he just leveled a tight end right at 5 yards, he knocked him on his butt big time and he was called for illegal contact and example B is when Asante Samuel caught a deep interception with Macho in the area and he just destroyed the receiver, it was called unneccesary roughness (I still don't agree, the receiver was right behind Asante).

Its not about size, its about mentality at the safety spot if you are willing to play the run and you stick to fundamentals no safety no matter what the size should have too much trouble assisting the run.

descendency
02-24-2010, 04:48 PM
come on dude, he sat behind brian greise at michigan, brady graduated from michigan and was drafted into the NFL 3 years before stanton enrolled at michigan STATE as a freshman

Who did I get Brady confused with then? Someone was a backup QB in the college their senior year ...

619
02-24-2010, 04:50 PM
Who did I get Brady confused with then? Someone was a backup QB in the college their senior year ...

Drew Henson

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 04:51 PM
Who did I get Brady confused with then? Someone was a backup QB in the college their senior year ...

It's not Brady you're confused with. You he split time with Drew Stanton, when he in fact split time with Drew Henson.

K Train
02-24-2010, 05:05 PM
Macho Harris was abused? Thats news to me, don't get me wrong he could've played way better but he wasn't abused because he was small. At one point early in the year Sheldon Brown called Macho Harris the tone setter for the Eagles secondary he was so physical. I will never accuse Macho of not being physical, that guy mixed it up in coverage and was really emotional, example A would be (I think it was the Bucs game) where he just leveled a tight end right at 5 yards, he knocked him on his butt big time and he was called for illegal contact and example B is when Asante Samuel caught a deep interception with Macho in the area and he just destroyed the receiver, it was called unneccesary roughness (I still don't agree, the receiver was right behind Asante).

Its not about size, its about mentality at the safety spot if you are willing to play the run and you stick to fundamentals no safety no matter what the size should have too much trouble assisting the run.

i do not know many eagles fans that like him at that spot and i see alot of eagles game...hes not the best FS, maybe abused was the wrong word but definitely picked on. dont get me wrong i like him, but ive always liked him as a corner despite being kind of stiff

descendency
02-24-2010, 08:19 PM
High on Gosder Cherilus.
High on BJ Raji
High on ... wait he went to BC.

He is biased towards players that come from his alma matter. He happened to hit on Ryan, but I'm not so sure it was from a pure football analysis.

You're jumping the gun on Raji. You may have a point, but 43 DTs and 34 DEs take time to develop. Raji should be a 34 NT as well...

Grizzlegom
02-24-2010, 08:38 PM
I'm going to be an ass and "diss" Mike Mayock for a second ... His 2008 rankings:

Top 5 Interior OL(did he hit on any of these?)?:

1. Branden Albert Virginia
2. Chilo Rachal USC
3. Jeremy Zuttah Rutgers
4. Mike Pollak Arizona State
5. Roy Schuening Oregon State


Safeties:

Has Tyrell Johnson over Kenny Phillips ...


Top 5 OLBs(again - any of these?):

1. Keith Rivers USC
2. Xavier Adibi Virginia Tech
3. Tavares Gooden Miami (Fla.)
4. Stanford Keglar Purdue
5. Wesley Woodyard Kentucky


RBs:

He has Mendenhall and McFadden over Jamaal Charles, Jonathan Stewart, and Felix Jones ... guess he didn't dislike McFadden that much after all?


Top 5 DEs(none of these were right, lol):

1. Chris Long Virginia
2. Vernon Gholston Ohio State
3. Derrick Harvey Florida
4. Phillip Merling Clemson
5. Calais Campbell Miami (Fla.)


Top 5 DTs(maybe he was right on Ellis):

1. Glenn Dorsey LSU
2. Sedrick Ellis USC
3. Kentwan Balmer North Carolina
4. Trevor Laws Notre Dame
5. Dre Moore Maryland




This was to basically to stop the nonsense that Mayock is right more often then wrong ... most draft "experts" including us on these forums are wrong more often then right ... I try to just grade a few prospects every year that I have a "feeling" on and I've been right 90% of the time ... trying to grade every prospect in the draft, you're going to be wrong more often then not ... but -- seriously -- lets not mistake Mayock for a guru ...

Its pretty easy to pick out a few prospects that you have a 'feeling' about. I had a 'feeling' that Jake Long, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Rashard Mendenhall were all going to be major contributors at the next level, oh look i got 100%!!!!

As for Mayock's rankings that year, it was an overall bad draft but he did go out on a limb with some guys and missed (Tyrell Johnson, adibi, and trevor laws come to mind as guys he was high on that haven't done much) but he nailed the top three QBs, tackles, and defensive tackles. I think its pretty ridiculous of you to say that basically none of the guys above are any good, Branden Albert, Calais Campbell and Merling, Dorsey and Ellis, and Rivers have all played up to their draft spots and Mendenhall is arguably the best RB from that list (Charles has something to say about it but Charles wasn't in most people's top five and he was in Mayock's! although its clear now that Chris Johnson and Ray Rice are 1 and 2). now i agree that most people have just as many things correct as they do wrong but to say they should only rank players that give them warm fuzzy feelings is just ridiculous.

LonghornsLegend
02-24-2010, 08:59 PM
Mayock is one of the best at rankings honestly.


It's pointless to go back and say "haha look at all these he got wrong" because none of these 'experts' can see into the future and it's not an exact science. You can't account for some players getting injured, who drafts a player into the wrong scheme, who got lazy after being paid, who got a chip on their shoulder for being drafted too low, all things that go into how well somebody plays.


Nobody ever will be 100% correct on rankings, that's all they are. Obviously the NFL gets it wrong too because otherwise there wouldn't have been so many RB's taken before CJ and Ray Rice respectively, also there wouldn't be any bust in the 1st and steals late because all the good players would go in the top 10 and fill out the 1st round.


Even GM's get it wrong, nobody is going to be correct all the time. That said, good to see more people on the Earl Thomas bandwagon that I've been trying to push for over a year now :D Very confident in his abilities at the next level, in a safety he's got the most important traits to have.

Morton
02-24-2010, 09:34 PM
What it all boils down to, if you listen to Mayock talk about this, is POTENTIAL on the next level.

He thinks Thomas has a higher ceiling as a ballhawk in the NFL than Berry, who is more NFL-Ready as an all-around safety. Thomas is smaller and thinner, but can probably put on more weight and learn to form tackle better, etc. But what Mayock sees in Thomas are natural, elite playmaking instincts that you can't tutor, and extremely fast closing speed.

Again, it's not as if he's saying Berry is clearly inferior or anything like that. He simply thinks that Thomas has a slightly higher ceiling in the NFL in one aspect of his game, and he values that aspect now because the NFL has become a passing league, and a safety that can effectively develop into a 8-9 int per season player can be extremely valuable. No reason Berry can't develop into that player, of course, but Mayock, right now, feels that Thomas has a slight edge to become that player.

Again, it's like Mayock valuing McCoy over Suh, SLIGHTLY, because of his slightly better pass-rushing potential. 1a and 1b.

I can't wait to revisit this thread a year from now after the 2010 season is over and see which player actually showed more flashes of potential during their rookie season.

Saints-Tigers
02-25-2010, 12:08 AM
It makes no sense though.

Yes, Thomas has the tools to develop into a top notch ballhawk safety. Eric Berry has every tool Thomas does, but better.

Paranoidmoonduck
02-25-2010, 01:46 AM
I don't agree with it, but I understand it (or at least I think I do).

Thomas seems more suited for the position he played in college than either Berry or Mays appear to me. Berry plays wild and looks like a cornerback to me. Mays looked like a very good FS then he gained weight and now he looks like a SS without the skills to make it work in the NFL. Thomas might not be as agressive as Berry, but that's probably a good thing for an free safety. Ed Reed is the only guy I've seen make that freelancing style work, and Eric Berry isn't as clever as Ed Reed (not yet, anyway).

Berry is super talented, more so than Thomas. I don't think Mayock is arguing otherwise. But I do understand that Thomas could be considered a better bet to work out in the NFL, or at least a much better bet to make the adjustment smoothly. Since Mayock has the two rated very closely, I don't think you can knock him that much.

gpngc
02-25-2010, 01:57 AM
He probably likes them both a lot... In no way does this ranking indicate that he believes Berry will not or should not be drafted in the top ten...

I don't think ranking Berry #2 is a knock on him at all. It's clear that both are extremely impressive prospects.

For whatever reason (probably what he's seen in film), he thinks Thomas is a better prospect- probably by a small margin.

It's really not that crazy at all considering most project Berry to go around pick 7 and Thomas in the teens-to-early-20s.

SRogers92
02-25-2010, 08:55 AM
Its pretty easy to pick out a few prospects that you have a 'feeling' about. I had a 'feeling' that Jake Long, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Rashard Mendenhall were all going to be major contributors at the next level, oh look i got 100%!!!!


I don't just do top 10 prospects in the draft ... I don't have time to grade every player in the drafts because, you know ... a career and kids ... kind of gets in the way to make accurate "grades" ... sure -- I could grade every player in the draft like 90% of the people here do ... other peoples' scouting reports and maybe one game they saw them in ...

The players I actually have time to grade and watch are the ones I'll make statements about ... I'm not going to try to do every prospect in the draft ... that entire comment was to show that, no matter who you are, you're wrong more often then right - period ... yet some people seem to think mayock defies that logic? Funny ....

bitonti
02-25-2010, 11:04 AM
mayock over analyzed the safeties... which is his right to do... but I find it very hard to believe that Earl Thomas ends up better pro than Eric Berry.

D-Unit
02-25-2010, 11:10 AM
Mayock doesn't care so much about his rankings as he does creating a buzz about his rankings. He's all about shock and awe. Nothing more.