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RWills
02-24-2010, 09:41 PM
According to SI.com's Tony Pauline, two NFC East teams have moved USC S Taylor Mays to linebacker on their draft board.

It doesn't matter if it's the Cowboys and Redskins, who run 3-4 (Dallas) or are expected to at least install a hybrid 3-4 scheme (Washington). If the Giants and Eagles consider Mays an outside 'backer, however, this could be a sign that the All American's stock is in obvious decline heading to the Combine.

Plus I read a thing I think by Mayock that he was a 2nd rounder.

V.I.P
02-24-2010, 09:55 PM
His stock will shoot back up after the combines, and then Pete Carroll will draft him with his second first rounder.

yourfavestoner
02-24-2010, 10:06 PM
His stock will shot back up after the combines, and then Pete Carroll will draft him with his second first rounder.

Eh...maybe. I really, really don't see him running the 4.3 everyone thinks he will.

RWills
02-24-2010, 10:12 PM
Even if he does, I see no latteral quickness and just straight line speed

TACKLE
02-24-2010, 10:14 PM
Eh...maybe. I really, really don't see him running the 4.3 everyone thinks he will.

Say what you want about Mays, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't run 4.3. I don't care about the rumors but I've seen him show flashes of making very fast players look slow (Jahvid Best, LaMichael James, Terrell Pryor).

descendency
02-24-2010, 10:22 PM
anything below 4.5 would be insane for the size he is.

However, if he falls out of the first round, I'm starting to think he might be a steal. I think he will be highly coachable and improvements every year. Pro-bowler for most of his career type stuff. Some of the tools are not there yet, but I think they will be.

Also, I think Pete Carrol's assistants can't coach DBs.

rainbeaukid2
02-24-2010, 10:35 PM
the thing that people may find about mays is that he is a great run support safety so nfl coaches may move him to strong safety even though he played center field a lot while at SC. Although that would negate his crushing hits on receivers that he made while a junior and not afraid of rehurting himself, he showed to be a very strong tackler and very good at attacking the line of scrimmage, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is taken mid- to late- first round by a team looking for a run-support safety

Flyboy
02-24-2010, 11:23 PM
That's right. Drop right down to #32.

LonghornsLegend
02-24-2010, 11:39 PM
I remember when anyone came up with this notion here they were laughed at and roasted for it on here as having no clue what their talking about. Funny how things change.


I just hope he's not on the Cowboys at any position, but I'll be interested seeing what he runs the 40 in since people talked about him running a 4.2 on these boards for years now.

niel89
02-24-2010, 11:55 PM
I just hope he's not on the Cowboys at any position, but I'll be interested seeing what he runs the 40 in since people talked about him running a 4.2 on these boards for years now.

Seriously, I remember when tons of people were saying he was this godly player who was 6'3" 235 and ran in the 4.2s. I don't think he will even be in the 4.3s.

I think the other drills will be much more important to his stock than the 40.

Clarkw267
02-25-2010, 12:00 AM
I see Mays as a OLB in a 4-3.

He is not good at all in deep coverage, and doesn't cover as much ground in the secondary as he should with his speed. He is consistently late getting from the hash to the sidelines in zone, and really doesn't look fluid when matched up in man.

However, you get the guy up to 240+ (which really shouldn't be a stretch) and you have yourself a hell of an athletic OLB, that can cover TE's and can lay the lumber.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2010, 12:01 AM
If Vernon Davis can post a sub 4.4 at the combine, I have little doubt that Mays should be able too.

I was one of those advocating that Mays make the switch to OLB also, until I saw him at the Senior Bowl. Basically whichever position Mays ultimately plays is up to him.

As an OLB, the potential he would have to be truly special is off the charts; covering TEs and RBs and blitzing off the edge, I think Mays would be the closest approximation to Lawrence Taylor the NFL has seen since, well, LT.

If Mays gets with a secondary coach who emphasizes the value to him of mixing up big hits with INTs, he could be a monster as a SS/FS for years.

His athletic ability I think is off the charts, so whatever position he plays, I sincerely believe Mays will be a much better pro than collegian.

yourfavestoner
02-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Taylor Mays=Thomas Davis?

Saints-Tigers
02-25-2010, 12:07 AM
Mays can't shed blockers anywhere near as well as top OLBs, much less LT.

niel89
02-25-2010, 12:34 AM
As an OLB, the potential he would have to be truly special is off the charts; covering TEs and RBs and blitzing off the edge, I think Mays would be the closest approximation to Lawrence Taylor the NFL has seen since, well, LT.


That seems a bit much. What makes you believe that he could compare to one of (if not) the greatest pass rushers of all time?

Cicero
02-25-2010, 12:36 AM
His stock will shoot back up after the combines, and then Pete Carroll will draft him with his second first rounder.

No no and no please.

Clarkw267
02-25-2010, 12:37 AM
That seems a bit much. What makes you believe that he could compare to one of (if not) the greatest pass rushers of all time?

Agreed.. mentioning Mays in the same sentence at LT is disrespectful to Lawrence.

TACKLE
02-25-2010, 12:38 AM
If Vernon Davis can post a sub 4.4 at the combine, I have little doubt that Mays should be able too.

I was one of those advocating that Mays make the switch to OLB also, until I saw him at the Senior Bowl. Basically whichever position Mays ultimately plays is up to him.

As an OLB, the potential he would have to be truly special is off the charts; covering TEs and RBs and blitzing off the edge, I think Mays would be the closest approximation to Lawrence Taylor the NFL has seen since, well, LT.

If Mays gets with a secondary coach who emphasizes the value to him of mixing up big hits with INTs, he could be a monster as a SS/FS for years.

His athletic ability I think is off the charts, so whatever position he plays, I sincerely believe Mays will be a much pro than collegian.

Do yourself a favor and reconsider what you just said.

Cicero
02-25-2010, 12:43 AM
Do yourself a favor and reconsider what you just said.

I'll add a definite +1 to that.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2010, 12:44 AM
The comparison is based purely upon Mays athletic ability.

You take any average NFL OLB and make him 6'3, 240+#, able to run a 4.3 ( which was not LT's timed speed, but it does reflect how 'fast' he played the game), allow him to cover TEs and RBs exclusively, make an effort against the run, and blitz from anywhere along the Dline, you have the ingredients necessary to create an extremely disruptive, nearly unblockable linebacker.

More or less I'm saying that I can see how the switch to OLB could work in Mays' favor.

EDIT: 'LT' is not the name of he who must not be ever mentioned.

Besides, where the comparison falls apart when comparing Lawrence Taylor to most OLBs who've played the pro game were LT's instincts; he was the only player Parcells ever coached who was allowed to freelance, maybe the only front 7 defensive player in NFL history who was allowed to 'do his own thing' in the modern NFL.

The point about Mays playing OLB and LT's impact on the NFL throughout the 80s is that, like LT, I think Mays could bring a set of physical tools to the OLB position that have not been seen before in the NFL up until this point, similar to what happened when LT was drafted in 1981.

If I were going to build the 'perfect' cyborg OLB in 2010, there aren't many better physical specimens to start with than Taylor Mays.

D-Unit
02-25-2010, 01:00 AM
According to SI.com's Tony Pauline, two NFC East teams have moved USC S Taylor Mays to linebacker on their draft board.

It doesn't matter if it's the Cowboys and Redskins, who run 3-4 (Dallas) or are expected to at least install a hybrid 3-4 scheme (Washington). If the Giants and Eagles consider Mays an outside 'backer, however, this could be a sign that the All American's stock is in obvious decline heading to the Combine.

Plus I read a thing I think by Mayock that he was a 2nd rounder.
Could you please provide the link?

Thumper
02-25-2010, 01:19 AM
According to SI.com's Tony Pauline, two NFC East teams have moved USC S Taylor Mays to linebacker on their draft board.

I pray to everything that the Eagles are one of those teams, if the Eagles draft Taylor Mays I will flip a *****.

wordofi
02-25-2010, 01:23 AM
I think that most of Mays' issues, such as his poor tackling and taking bad angles, are correctable with good coaching. However, his poor instincts will probably prevent him from maximizing his potential based on his physical skills.

Paranoidmoonduck
02-25-2010, 01:40 AM
For whatever it's worth, I do think Mays has firmly sunk below Berry and Thomas on the safety rankings and is sitting in the mid-20's right now. He'll have to stave off Chad Jones (who is very similar and I could easily see some scouts liking more) at the combine, but I don't think he's plummeting or anything.

In this draft though, with the depth at safety, he could slip into the 2nd.

Cicero
02-25-2010, 01:52 AM
I pray to everything that the Eagles are one of those teams, if the Eagles draft Taylor Mays I will flip a *****.

Aren't the Redskins converting to the 3-4 or at least running a hybrid scheme? Mays is kind of small to be playing ILB in the 3-4 and he's certainly not a 3-4 OLB so it would have to be the Eagles and Giants wouldn't it?

AntoinCD
02-25-2010, 03:07 AM
I still think Taylor Mays' best fit will come in the deep middle. He has horrendous technique when it comes to tackling. Just lowering your shoulder may work on some WRs but if he did that on a consistent basis against Brandon Jacobs, AD, Michael Turner etc in the box his missed tackles would be off the charts

GoRavens
02-25-2010, 05:31 AM
Taylor Mays is being considered a linebacker by some teams, which is mind boggling. His tackling skills are average at best, but he's not fluid and athletic enough to be a starting safety.
Chad Jones, is a similar player, but one that won't be a bust.
Jones is the ideal SS in the mold of Adrian Wilson.
Don't be surprised if Mays slips out of the first round.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2010, 08:25 AM
Why is it if a prospect doesn't project as 'all world' at his given position, suddenly he's considered not good enough to play the position at all??

Whether Mays is a top 15 pick or taken in the middle of the 2nd, he still will be a starting safety in the pros. The first time he straps up his pads in an NFL TC, Mays will probably still be the best athlete on the field.

There are worse starting SS in the pros than Mays is currently.

yourfavestoner
02-25-2010, 10:32 AM
I still think Taylor Mays' best fit will come in the deep middle. He has horrendous technique when it comes to tackling. Just lowering your shoulder may work on some WRs but if he did that on a consistent basis against Brandon Jacobs, AD, Michael Turner etc in the box his missed tackles would be off the charts

Yeah, Reggie Nelson still hasn't figured out that putting your head down and launching yourself at people like a human torpedo doesn't work in the NFL.

thenewfeature06
02-25-2010, 10:38 AM
He won't fall out of the first round. End of story. After Berry its Thomas and Mays then it drops off again imo.

bitonti
02-25-2010, 10:53 AM
saying Taylor mays is like Thomas Davis or Darnell Bing is lazy scouting. If Mays runs that 4.3 everyone talks about it would be a waste to play a 4.3 player at outside linebacker.

Outside of Eric Berry, no one can tell me that any of these safety prospects are sure things. Taylor Mays has as good a chance or better than any of these other guys... in fact he has an advantage because of his athleticism. They all need to learn coverage skills... none of em were tested at the college level. Safety is a crap shoot every year... even so called great prospects like Michael Huff and Laron Landry bust out... If Taylor Mays gets picked after 15 or so it's a really good bargain.

Babylon
02-25-2010, 10:59 AM
I still think Taylor Mays' best fit will come in the deep middle. He has horrendous technique when it comes to tackling. Just lowering your shoulder may work on some WRs but if he did that on a consistent basis against Brandon Jacobs, AD, Michael Turner etc in the box his missed tackles would be off the charts

He needs to be coached up better in the technique department. With a lot of physically gifted players at the college level they tend to get away from fundamentals and just rely on their ability. I'll go against the grain here and say i'd love to have him. He's a great athlete and a class act. He went back to SC to get better when he didnt have to and went to the Senior bowl when he didnt need to either. I know there are a few Seattle fans that dont want him but i wouldnt be one of them.

D-Unit
02-25-2010, 11:04 AM
So wait... some guy on cnnsi writes an article and then the masses follow like blind sheep?

Mays will not be drafted to play LB. Period.

fear the elf
02-25-2010, 11:41 AM
Let him slide. The Browns will gladly take him at the top of the second.

Morton
02-25-2010, 11:50 AM
What if he runs a sub 4.3? Like 4.28 or something? And he weighs in at 225+?

Will that make him an automatic high first-rounder regardless of coverage problems?

Clarkw267
02-25-2010, 11:50 AM
So wait... some guy on cnnsi writes an article and then the masses follow like blind sheep?

Mays will not be drafted to play LB. Period.

Guy plays like a LB in coverage. Don't see why it's so much of a stretch.

mellojello
02-25-2010, 11:54 AM
Say what you want about Mays, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't run 4.3. I don't care about the rumors but I've seen him show flashes of making very fast players look slow (Jahvid Best, LaMichael James, Terrell Pryor).4.4's or better for sure. Amazing for his size that he can meet guys like Best/James/Pryor at the edge. However, if you question the speed of guys like Best, James, or Pryor, I can understand why you don't get it. Ultimately, someone that big shouldn't be that fast.

bitonti
02-25-2010, 11:56 AM
regardless of coverage problems?

it should also be noted Mays had a pretty interception in the Senior Bowl game... his coverage "problems" are more fixable than the flaws of most players.

fear the elf
02-25-2010, 11:56 AM
What if he runs a sub 4.3? Like 4.28 or something? And he weighs in at 225+?

Will that make him an automatic high first-rounder regardless of coverage problems?

If he comes in and does that, and shows adequately in agility drills, I think he'll be fine.

Morton
02-25-2010, 11:59 AM
What I'm wondering though, is if he runs a crazy 40 (sub 4.3 would be insane for a guy as big as him)... if he'll be a lock for top 15 regardless of any other concerns.

A big dude who runs a Chris Johnson esque 40 might be a worthwhile top 15 pick based on freakishness alone.

SloppyJoe
02-25-2010, 12:22 PM
i was never i big fan of him.....but in the second round, i would like to get him to Tampa

Babylon
02-25-2010, 12:27 PM
So wait... some guy on cnnsi writes an article and then the masses follow like blind sheep?

Mays will not be drafted to play LB. Period.

Not just any guy on SI, a guy that knows nada about what he's talking about.

Splat
02-25-2010, 12:33 PM
He won't fall out of the first round. End of story.

I laugh when people say this about a player before the draft since every year there are a hand full of "sure fire" first round picks that drop out of the first round.

RealityCheck
02-25-2010, 12:36 PM
Won't get past #22 if Graham and Kindle are taken.

Babylon
02-25-2010, 12:36 PM
I laugh when people say this about a player before the draft since every year there are a hand full of "sure fire" first round picks that drop out of the first round.

Guys that are mentioned during the season as top 10 types? i dont know of any.

Splat
02-25-2010, 12:42 PM
I saw Rey Maualuga going in the top 15 in many of mock drafts last year.

thenewfeature06
02-25-2010, 12:42 PM
I laugh when people say this about a player before the draft since every year there are a hand full of "sure fire" first round picks that drop out of the first round.

Yea but unforentely he is a safety, recently backs have fell off and linebackers as well with Laurnitis falling that 1 year and Demeco ryans. You really dont think somebody will look at him in the first round towards the back half..? Minnesota? Houston? Id be shocked if he fell in the 2nd

Splat
02-25-2010, 12:44 PM
I'm not saying he won't go first round I just think its silly to say "there is no way" he falls out of the first round.

Babylon
02-25-2010, 12:46 PM
Yea but unforentely he is a safety, recently backs have fell off and linebackers as well with Laurnitis falling that 1 year and Demeco ryans. You really dont think somebody will look at him in the first round towards the back half..? Minnesota? Houston? Id be shocked if he fell in the 2nd

Anything's possible, i actually see Seattle either taking him at #14 or trading down a few spots and taking him there.

BRAVEHEART
02-25-2010, 12:50 PM
Maualuga didn't really blow scouts minds away at the combine. The combine can make or break you, for TM...it'll make him.

Clarkw267
02-25-2010, 12:51 PM
I saw Rey Maualuga going in the top 15 in many of mock drafts last year.

Maualuga
Lauranitis
Calais Campbell

There are always guys projected as top 10-15 guys during the college season that fall after the season is complete, and the pre-draft stuff develops.

bitonti
02-25-2010, 01:00 PM
I saw Rey Maualuga going in the top 15 in many of mock drafts last year.

if he had no off the field concerns that might have happened. Rey M's recent Dui is the evidence of the main reason why he fell.

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2010, 01:35 PM
Maualuga
Lauranitis
Calais Campbell

There are always guys projected as top 10-15 guys during the college season that fall after the season is complete, and the pre-draft stuff develops.

Those guys fell mainly because they ran slow 40 times, IMO.

If Rey and Laurinaitis each ran a sub 4.6 at the combine, I think they both easily would have gone in the 1st round.

big0mar
02-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Maualuga dropped because teams discovered he is a raging alcoholic.

BRAVEHEART
02-25-2010, 02:13 PM
Maualuga dropped because teams discovered he is a raging alcoholic.

Actually it was because of this...

http://boston.3432.voxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/reyAndAMidget.jpg

FUNBUNCHER
02-25-2010, 02:20 PM
Rey is so crazee!~@!

What's the story on that pic?? And who's the midget getting her tiggol biddies palmed???

BRAVEHEART
02-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Dunno, but scouts frown upon tigg'ol bittie scoops (especially on dwarfs).

PossibleCabbage
02-25-2010, 02:54 PM
the thing that people may find about mays is that he is a great run support safety so nfl coaches may move him to strong safety even though he played center field a lot while at SC.

Before I could call him a "great" run support safety, he's going to need to work a lot on his tackling fundamentals. The knock that "he goes for the big hit, not the tackle" is a considerable one, though eminently correctable. Right now, he's not great, just above average.

Guys that are mentioned during the season as top 10 types? i dont know of any.

Everette Brown to Green Bay at #9 last year was on about every third mock I read, even as late as the day of the draft.

phlysac
02-26-2010, 09:30 AM
I have been hyper-critical of Taylor Mays as a prospect. With that said, 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has recently stated (when asked about Earl Thomas as a potential pick) that size is very important to him and that he wants big, fast guys that can be very physical against the run.

Does this mean he likes Mays? Not necessarily. I just thought that I'd take the time to say that, although against it, if the 49ers are to select Mays, I hope he meets his potential because I admit I will go from one of his biggest critics to one of his biggest supporters.

CLong4Heisman
02-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Rey is so crazee!~@!

What's the story on that pic?? And who's the midget getting her tiggol biddies palmed???

That's Snooki from the Jersey Shore

descendency
02-26-2010, 11:36 AM
Actually it was because of this...

So that's why Clausen isn't the #1 QB on everyone's boards... (I don't want to post the picture... everyone has seen it)

Clarkw267
02-26-2010, 11:49 AM
So that's why Clausen isn't the #1 QB on everyone's boards... (I don't want to post the picture... everyone has seen it)

What picture?

Clarkw267
02-26-2010, 11:55 AM
OHHH I forgot... nm. :eek:

Thunder&Lightning
02-26-2010, 11:57 AM
= manny lawson

ViperVisor
02-26-2010, 12:13 PM
I have been hyper-critical of Taylor Mays as a prospect. With that said, 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has recently stated (when asked about Earl Thomas as a potential pick) that size is very important to him and that he wants big, fast guys that can be very physical against the run.

Does this mean he likes Mays? Not necessarily. I just thought that I'd take the time to say that, although against it, if the 49ers are to select Mays, I hope he meets his potential because I admit I will go from one of his biggest critics to one of his biggest supporters.


I saw a mock with 49ers getting Chad Jones.

Chad Jones 40 practice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgTmJCCxDiE

And he has a way better arm than Hill.

yourfavestoner
02-26-2010, 12:45 PM
i was never i big fan of him.....but in the second round, i would like to get him to Tampa

Of all the safeties, I think he's Tampa's best fit. Take him and watch John Lynch happen all over again.

D-Unit
02-26-2010, 12:47 PM
I have been hyper-critical of Taylor Mays as a prospect. With that said, 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has recently stated (when asked about Earl Thomas as a potential pick) that size is very important to him and that he wants big, fast guys that can be very physical against the run.

Does this mean he likes Mays? Not necessarily. I just thought that I'd take the time to say that, although against it, if the 49ers are to select Mays, I hope he meets his potential because I admit I will go from one of his biggest critics to one of his biggest supporters.
You're not alone. That's how it always goes.

rainbeaukid2
03-01-2010, 12:43 AM
Dunno, but scouts frown upon tigg'ol bittie scoops (especially on dwarfs).

legit signature, jurrell is the man

TACKLE
03-01-2010, 01:55 AM
I know we've all seen this play many times but it becomes a lot more relevant with Jahvid Best running an official 4.35 forty.

26rLxHZpiKQ

LickaMahfeetz
03-01-2010, 02:22 AM
I know we've all seen this play many times but it becomes a lot more relevant with Jahvid Best running an official 4.35 forty.

26rLxHZpiKQ
As a long time USC fan, when I saw that play, live, I was very proud of my boy. Still am. That is beautiful.

mellojello
03-01-2010, 03:24 AM
I know we've all seen this play many times but it becomes a lot more relevant with Jahvid Best running an official 4.35 forty.

26rLxHZpiKQHonestly, this play is only more relevant if you know absolutely zilch about pac 10 football, I mean, those are two of the most high profile guys in the league. Anyways, I saw that play in person too...it was amazing, but along with the memory of what Mays did to Cal's receivers/passing game the year before, it's even more impressive. To Jahvid's credit, when idiots say that "he didn't do anything against SC," that video is a perfect reason why. Cal passing game was crap and Pete wasn't ever going to let him get going. I felt bad for Jahvid and wanted to give him a hug afterwards.

GhostDeini
03-01-2010, 11:56 PM
Is that Taylor Mays career defining moment/highlight ? If so, LMAO.

mellojello
03-02-2010, 12:07 AM
Is that Taylor Mays career defining moment/highlight ? If so, LMAO.Perfect example of someone who knows zilch about Pac 10 football.

GhostDeini
03-02-2010, 12:20 AM
What's so new over there in the Pac 10 ?

Any USC game that's on I'll watch but never seem to notice Mays in the mix.

Besides, only Suggs, Palmer, and Ngata are the few Pac 10 players that have done something over the last several years.

KCJ58
03-02-2010, 12:40 AM
What's so new over there in the Pac 10 ?

Any USC game that's on I'll watch but never seem to notice Mays in the mix.

Besides, only Suggs, Palmer, and Ngata are the few Pac 10 players that have done something over the last several years.


wow no wonder you have such bad rep, other names you forgot to mention some of these Pac-10 players that are stars like Steven Jackson, MJD, troy polamalu, tony gonzalez, chad ochocinco, but yea keep thinking the pac 10 is a joke buddy

big daddy russ
03-02-2010, 01:00 AM
As a long time USC fan, when I saw that play, live, I was very proud of my boy. Still am. That is beautiful.

I have no dog in this fight. Honestly, I'd love for my Texans to pick up Mays and I love watching Best, but I saw a great angle and a RB who didn't have enough core strength to start moving upfield and break the tackle.

I know, I'm a pessimist, but on the bright side it showed that Mays has more than enough speed to play in the League no matter the 40 he posts.

adrunkcow
03-02-2010, 01:11 AM
I know its not very fun to bring up math here... but if you look at the video you can see that Best and Mays are both obviously running at an angle. However if you consider that Mays runs a strait line you can guestimate how fast he has to run in order to catch Best, by forming a trianlge.

Looking at the video they look to be about ten yards apart, or 30 feet. From that hash mark to the edge of play is 100 feet. Using some basic math, you can figure out that the other part of the triangle is about 104.4 feet. Meaning Best has to run about 4.4 feet further. Now we know Best runs a 40, or 120 feet, in 2.35 seconds. And while not very accurate we can see he runs 51 feet or so every second. Doing a little more math you can see it should take him about 2.04 seconds to cover the 104.4 feet. Using that you know that Mays has to cover the 100 feet in 2.04 seconds. In other words he has to run 49 feet per second, or run about a 4.45 40. Again a lot of assumptions but that video seems to tell me that Mays should clock in around 4.45 in the 40, or even worse since he is also running at an angle not a strait line. Not the crazy sub 4.3s every one talks about.....

big daddy russ
03-02-2010, 01:20 AM
I know its not very fun to bring up math here... but if you look at the video you can see that Best and Mays are both obviously running at an angle. However if you consider that Mays runs a strait line you can guestimate how fast he has to run in order to catch Best, by forming a trianlge.

Looking at the video they look to be about ten yards apart, or 30 feet. From that hash mark to the edge of play is 100 feet. Using some basic math, you can figure out that the other part of the triangle is about 104.4 feet. Meaning Best has to run about 4.4 feet further. Now we know Best runs a 40, or 120 feet, in 2.35 seconds. And while not very accurate we can see he runs 51 feet or so every second. Doing a little more math you can see it should take him about 2.04 seconds to cover the 104.4 feet. Using that you know that Mays has to cover the 100 feet in 2.04 seconds. In other words he has to run 49 feet per second, or run about a 4.45 40. Again a lot of assumptions but that video seems to tell me that Mays should clock in around 4.45 in the 40, or even worse since he is also running at an angle not a strait line. Not the crazy sub 4.3s every one talks about.....
Great minds think alike.

LickaMahfeetz
03-02-2010, 04:11 AM
I know its not very fun to bring up math here... but if you look at the video you can see that Best and Mays are both obviously running at an angle. However if you consider that Mays runs a strait line you can guestimate how fast he has to run in order to catch Best, by forming a trianlge.

Looking at the video they look to be about ten yards apart, or 30 feet. From that hash mark to the edge of play is 100 feet. Using some basic math, you can figure out that the other part of the triangle is about 104.4 feet. Meaning Best has to run about 4.4 feet further. Now we know Best runs a 40, or 120 feet, in 2.35 seconds. And while not very accurate we can see he runs 51 feet or so every second. Doing a little more math you can see it should take him about 2.04 seconds to cover the 104.4 feet. Using that you know that Mays has to cover the 100 feet in 2.04 seconds. In other words he has to run 49 feet per second, or run about a 4.45 40. Again a lot of assumptions but that video seems to tell me that Mays should clock in around 4.45 in the 40, or even worse since he is also running at an angle not a strait line. Not the crazy sub 4.3s every one talks about.....
I'm not doing the math on that but I think it's great that you brought that aspect into it. This is a 230 lb FS though running down one of the fastest running backs in the country, who he happens to give up more than 30 lbs to.

Being in Pac-10 country, Best was known at the time for his legendary speed. Obviously now we have an actual number to put to that. For a guy like Mays to run him down from that angle, once again, is a beautiful thing and not something most guys in a comparable situation could do.

Draft King
03-02-2010, 11:39 AM
4.24 unofficial. Take that math!!!

Addict
03-02-2010, 11:47 AM
4.24 unofficial. Take that math!!!

cancel the fall, que the rocket.

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2010, 11:51 AM
cancel the fall, que the rocket.

It's not really possible to run fast enough to improve your tackling technique, your ball skills, your football instincts, and all of the things that Mays needs to work on.

Putting up gaudy numbers in shorts can help people forget about your tape, but it can't erase it. Mays's stock will get a post-combine bump, for whatever that's worth, but he'll come back down to earth by draft time.

I mean, nobody should be surprised that Mays looks like he could jump out of the gym. That's what he's supposed to be.

Draft King
03-02-2010, 11:55 AM
Dear god math was right, I apologize. 4.43 official. NFL Network tricked me.

mellojello
03-02-2010, 12:14 PM
I know its not very fun to bring up math here... but if you look at the video you can see that Best and Mays are both obviously running at an angle. However if you consider that Mays runs a strait line you can guestimate how fast he has to run in order to catch Best, by forming a trianlge.

Looking at the video they look to be about ten yards apart, or 30 feet. From that hash mark to the edge of play is 100 feet. Using some basic math, you can figure out that the other part of the triangle is about 104.4 feet. Meaning Best has to run about 4.4 feet further. Now we know Best runs a 40, or 120 feet, in 2.35 seconds. And while not very accurate we can see he runs 51 feet or so every second. Doing a little more math you can see it should take him about 2.04 seconds to cover the 104.4 feet. Using that you know that Mays has to cover the 100 feet in 2.04 seconds. In other words he has to run 49 feet per second, or run about a 4.45 40. Again a lot of assumptions but that video seems to tell me that Mays should clock in around 4.45 in the 40, or even worse since he is also running at an angle not a strait line. Not the crazy sub 4.3s every one talks about.....Far more logical than guys who pull stuff from thin air.

D-Unit
03-02-2010, 01:32 PM
I <3 Taylor MayzzzzzzzzzZZZ

Paranoidmoonduck
03-02-2010, 02:12 PM
Far more logical than guys who pull stuff from thin air.

Except it ignores that track speed and game speed are two entirely different things.

BRAVEHEART
03-02-2010, 02:13 PM
Well, what can we do with this thread now?

Brent
03-02-2010, 02:28 PM
NFL Network showed simulcast of 40 times and Mays was ahead of Trindon Holliday. Just sayin'... it's irrelvant, is what I am saying.

big daddy russ
03-02-2010, 02:43 PM
Except it ignores that track speed and game speed are two entirely different things.

And that's the other lesson to learn here. Don't listen to the combine. It messes with your head.

You can see how fast these kids play and get a better feel for their game like that than through some obscure 40 time. How they run in pads, how they position themselves, angles, instincts--all of it factors in to how fast they are on the field.

Out of these three guys, who ran the fastest 40?
Anquan Boldin
Jerry Rice
Steve Largent























Two of the GOAT, and one of the best today. And the answer? Rice and Boldin are tied with official 4.71's.

If you let the combine mess with your rankings too much, you end up drafting Mike Mamula. This may be a shocker to most draftniks, but the 40 doesn't matter. If they can run in college, they can run in the League.

I_C_DeadPeople
03-02-2010, 04:22 PM
Is there any reason the NFL does not use electronic timers? Or good ones? Man, high school track meets use them now.

Cicero
03-02-2010, 04:25 PM
And that's the other lesson to learn here. Don't listen to the combine. It messes with your head.

You can see how fast these kids play and get a better feel for their game like that than through some obscure 40 time. How they run in pads, how they position themselves, angles, instincts--all of it factors in to how fast they are on the field.

Out of these three guys, who ran the fastest 40?
Anquan Boldin
Jerry Rice
Steve Largent























Two of the GOAT, and one of the best today. And the answer? Rice and Boldin are tied with official 4.71's.

If you let the combine mess with your rankings too much, you end up drafting Mike Mamula. This may be a shocker to most draftniks, but the 40 doesn't matter. If they can run in college, they can run in the League.
The 40 doesn't matter? Do you think they would have people run it if it didn't matter? Come on buddy.

RealityCheck
03-02-2010, 04:27 PM
Am I the only one who sees the Jaguars a potential team for Mays?

I mean, Mays -> USC -> LA -> Jaguars?

SloppyJoe
03-02-2010, 04:39 PM
i found this picture in a Bucs Forum.
i don't know if it's a fake or something, i just saw the comparison between Mays and Ford on NFL network and that difference was the same like the picture is showing.

so the official 40Time from Mays 4,43?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2a50nyp.jpg

TitanHope
03-02-2010, 04:48 PM
Am I the only one who sees the Jaguars a potential team for Mays?

I mean, Mays -> USC -> LA -> Jaguars?

Is that like "6 degrees of irrelevant separation?"

Sounds like a fun game! :)

superpack84
03-02-2010, 04:48 PM
Am I the only one who sees the Jaguars a potential team for Mays?

I mean, Mays -> USC -> LA -> Jaguars?

May be they should move to LA. ;)

LonghornsLegend
03-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Despite Taylor Mays' impressive showing in the forty-yard dash, SI.com's Tony Pauline points out that the USC safety sported poor form during position drills.

Mays was "terribly slow moving in reverse" and appeared to be "uncomfortable" backpedaling during drills. Mays also had major trouble changing direction, often coming to a complete stop as opposed to making a smooth transition. Pauline believes Mays will have trouble in man coverage and making plays sideline-to-sideline. The same concerns dogged him at the Senior Bowl.
Source: SI.com


But hey, at least he runs really fast in a straight line and that's the most important thing to some people.

adrunkcow
03-02-2010, 04:59 PM
Imo he did look faster than the 4.43. However I have to agree though that 40 times are not super important, its all about the angles, and personally I like Mays a lot, or his potential any way. He just didn't look very fluid in his runs. I still think he could be a really special player in the right system.

Babylon
03-02-2010, 05:04 PM
Am I the only one who sees the Jaguars a potential team for Mays?

I mean, Mays -> USC -> LA -> Jaguars?

You assume there Pete Carroll passes on him twice, dont think so.

RealityCheck
03-02-2010, 05:07 PM
You assume there Pete Carroll passes on him twice, dont think so.
No.

SEA - 6
JAC - 10
SEA - 14

Babylon
03-02-2010, 05:11 PM
No.

SEA - 6
JAC - 10
SEA - 14

I stand corrected. I see they'll have to take him at #6 to guarantee they get him. Those darn Shaguars.

RealityCheck
03-02-2010, 05:12 PM
I stand corrected. I see they'll have to take him at #6 to guarantee they get him. Those darn Shaguars.
I could see Mays going to the Brownies if Berry is gone, which I doubt though.

Babylon
03-02-2010, 05:16 PM
I could see Mays going to the Brownies if Berry is gone, which I doubt though.

In a way Mays is the same player he was last week. We all knew he was an athlete. The questions about his reacting to the football are still there.

Triumphdog
03-02-2010, 05:39 PM
"With the 8th pick in the 2010 NFL Draft...The Oakland Raiders select Taylor Mays from USC."

"He sure is fast. We like fast players. I eat fast for breakfast"
-Al Davis

Saints-Tigers
03-02-2010, 06:50 PM
In a way Mays is the same player he was last week. We all knew he was an athlete. The questions about his reacting to the football are still there.

Yup.

Mays falling out of round 1 were always far fetched, because he's a guy with a high floor and an extremely high ceiling.

He's a super athlete that is hard working and intelligent. There is no way he is a total bust, and he could be a huge boom.

bitonti
03-02-2010, 08:01 PM
interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhYKZHKh4Q

if you are a highly paid nfl scout or decision maker you don't give a hoot what national or Nfl.com or nflnetwork says is the right number

they've been watching 40's for years this way and Mays had a great run. the people who run the combine can adjust it anyway they want, that doesn't change what these dudes who actually make the picks saw with their own eyes.

JMO the adjustment has a bigger impact on the web than in the combine building.

he big dudes are off timing some more, interviewing someone, taking a whizz, meeting with their staff or eating pizza, catching a plane ... too busy to hear about or care about the adjustment.

LonghornsLegend
03-02-2010, 08:15 PM
Yup.

Mays falling out of round 1 were always far fetched, because he's a guy with a high floor and an extremely high ceiling.

He's a super athlete that is hard working and intelligent. There is no way he is a total bust, and he could be a huge boom.



I'm interested in how you came to these conclusions.


Taylor Mays is certainly not sure thing, I don't get why just because he's fast and strong and can jump really high in shorts that there is no way he is a total bust. I guess you've never heard of a combine freak being a total bust before though I guess.


He also doesn't have a high floor. Guys with a high floor have very little chance at busting and their film shows then being great football players more then anything, which is pretty much the exact opposite of Mays. He may have incredible potential, but the bolded is the exact opposite of how you would describe him. Doesn't make sense.

CC.SD
03-02-2010, 08:24 PM
Hooray Taylor you done the haters wrong for now.

adrunkcow
03-02-2010, 08:37 PM
I think at this point its any ones guess as to how good Mays will be. Mays has a ton of potential, however everything we say now is just speculation, unless you can see into the future you can't tell how good Mays will be. Personally I think Mays may have made a big mistake, I am gonna agree with Truimphdog on this, and its something I have worried about for a long time. After blowing it up at the combine Mays might very well be a Raider next season.

Thumper
03-02-2010, 08:48 PM
Wait, did we learn anything new? Taylor Mays is big, strong and can run quickly in a straight line, but not as quickly as the hype had him running. Hmmm... I remember writing this back in August.

Taylor Mays did nothing to help his stock really, he is a big and fast we knew that it doesn't change the fact that he lacks football intelligence, instincts, ball skills, tackling fundamentals and lateral agility and speed. He can't cover man to man either, but who cares? He is big and fast, and thats all that matters.

FUNBUNCHER
03-02-2010, 09:08 PM
i found this picture in a Bucs Forum.
i don't know if it's a fake or something, i just saw the comparison between Mays and Ford on NFL network and that difference was the same like the picture is showing.

so the official 40Time from Mays 4,43?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2a50nyp.jpg

Exactly~!!
How does Mays run s 4.24 and a 4.34 and end up with a 4.43 official?? How do you come up with any other time that's greater than a 4.40 flat??

If those times averaged to a 4.29 can magically be rounded up to a 4.43:confused: , then the NFL needs to shut down the combine because obviously those rock heads don't know how to use a stopwatch.

Just hating on the kid, which I myself have done in copious amounts during the entire college season and post-season.

But what I've seen out of Mays lately is that he's a God blessed physical specimen who's also a grunt; works to be the best player he can be and plays the position as per his coaches instructions without much hyperbole.

That's why I hope and pray Seattle has NO CHANCE to draft Mays, Carroll is supposed to be a defensive whiz and had not a clue how to maximize Taylor Mays physical talents at USC, so I doubt he brings out the best in Mays as a pro.

If the best you can envision for Mays playing free safety is not to let a WR get behind you, then you sir, as a Def. coordinator, are a dumb-dumb.

If someone can teach Mays the rudiments of playing the ball in coverage, and the importance of mixing up big hits and big INTs, he's going to be pro bowler sooner than later.

To be that tall, that big, and that fast should be illegal.

Right now, I would not be surprised to see a team take Mays as the top safety in the draft, because of his insane upside.

At worst, he's a solid starter for 12 years in the pros.

At best, he's the kind of player you tell your grand kids about and watch them call pa-pa an effin liar.

adrunkcow
03-02-2010, 09:23 PM
take it how you want to

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnaTYuphAnTbh.7wpUckqnBDubYF?slug=nfp-source_taylor_mays_ran_419_at_usc_html-201032&prov=nfp&type=lgns

CC.SD
03-02-2010, 09:38 PM
take it how you want to

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnaTYuphAnTbh.7wpUckqnBDubYF?slug=nfp-source_taylor_mays_ran_419_at_usc_html-201032&prov=nfp&type=lgns

There's no way a drunk cow could use the internet.

Saints-Tigers
03-02-2010, 09:49 PM
I'm interested in how you came to these conclusions.


Taylor Mays is certainly not sure thing, I don't get why just because he's fast and strong and can jump really high in shorts that there is no way he is a total bust. I guess you've never heard of a combine freak being a total bust before though I guess.


He also doesn't have a high floor. Guys with a high floor have very little chance at busting and their film shows then being great football players more then anything, which is pretty much the exact opposite of Mays. He may have incredible potential, but the bolded is the exact opposite of how you would describe him. Doesn't make sense.

He doesn't make a lot of impact plays, but he's not bad in coverage and he's a better tackler(and less of a big hit threat) than people give him credit for.

He plays like a guy getting by on smarts and preparation but lacking athletic ability. Solid play, but nothing game breaking, that's why it's so odd to watch him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-02-2010, 09:50 PM
My understanding is that most coaches and scouts don't go by the official times, they go by their own times, and they were probably closer to 4.24 than 4.43.

ElectricEye
03-02-2010, 09:51 PM
My understanding is that most coaches and scouts don't go by the official times, they go by their own times, and they were probably closer to 4.24 than 4.43.

I think incidents like this sort of show why. They should really go back and time people using tape.

adrunkcow
03-02-2010, 10:10 PM
There's no way a drunk cow could use the internet.

Its a mystery how it works. I like your sig though, just sayin :3.

And on topic here I think we are making way to much of this. We all know he is fast and athletic. The 4.43 looks wrong, and even if he can run a 4.24 it really doesn't change much. There are always going to be controversy surrounding these things we should just let the topic die, and wait and see where he gets drafted and see how he does. I really doubt some one with as much "potential", its becoming like the nba draft here, is gonna drop that much.

PossibleCabbage
03-02-2010, 10:14 PM
There's no way a drunk cow could use the internet.

Next thing you know, you're going to be telling me that I'm not actually a Cabbage.

WCH
03-02-2010, 10:42 PM
I think incidents like this sort of show why. They should really go back and time people using tape.

It shouldn't be terribly difficult to develop a program that could time these guys, either at the combine or in game situations, to a VERY high degree of accuracy.

The NFL seems to be run by Luddites, so I don't expect them to figure this out any time soon. I suspect that the scouts would protest because they (wrongly) view it as a direct threat to their job security...

bored of education
03-02-2010, 10:59 PM
Next thing you know, you're going to be telling me that I'm not actually a Cabbage.

you are possibly one, not ACTUALLY a cabbage.

mellojello
03-03-2010, 12:30 AM
Even if you don't think Mays is going to be successful, it boggles my mind how many people waste time hating on him.

For example, even if I thought there's no place in the NFL for Tebow's baseball wind-up throwing motion, jump throws, and lack of experience in a pro-style offense, why bring it up over and over? Can someone enlighten me?

Seriously, I wonder what phony excuses the haters will come up with when Mays is effective on Sundays.

descendency
03-03-2010, 12:40 AM
It shouldn't be terribly difficult to develop a program that could time these guys, either at the combine or in game situations, to a VERY high degree of accuracy.

The NFL seems to be run by Luddites, so I don't expect them to figure this out any time soon. I suspect that the scouts would protest because they (wrongly) view it as a direct threat to their job security...

You don't need a program when you have a video tape of the athlete running. You can just use frame by frame analysis until you see where they cross.

It's time consuming when you do 300+ people, but lots of people will do it.

edit: I continue to say that Mays isn't very good in college, but USC isn't very good at coaching DBs. Mays may turn out to be a draft steal if he's coached well. You see flashes from him. If he finally gets it, that team will have an All-Pro super star safety.

Saints-Tigers
03-03-2010, 12:43 AM
You don't need a program when you have a video tape of the athlete running. You can just use frame by frame analysis until you see where they cross.

It's time consuming when you do 300+ people, but lots of people will do it.

I'm still waiting on that before I freak out about all the times. I think Best and Dickerson are the ones that were way off. Ford was way way way way farther than .07 ahead of Best, and that step and a half he had on Mays could easily be .1 or more.

mellojello
03-03-2010, 12:57 AM
I'm still waiting on that before I freak out about all the times. I think Best and Dickerson are the ones that were way off. Ford was way way way way farther than .07 ahead of Best, and that step and a half he had on Mays could easily be .1 or more.Interesting...so, you think Best and Dickerson really ran around a 4.45+ then?

Saints-Tigers
03-03-2010, 01:02 AM
I dunno, I guess. It was odd that they were also two that had faster official times than unofficial, ya know?

mellojello
03-03-2010, 01:21 AM
I dunno, I guess. It was odd that they were also two that had faster official times than unofficial, ya know?Don't know, just asking, but it's interesting. I thought Best had unofficial times of 4.33 & 4.39. How does that work? Did he run once or is that unofficial times from two sources?

Saints-Tigers
03-03-2010, 01:34 AM
I missed it, I asked earlier and someone told me he ran in the 4.4's and then got moved up.

Bah **** it, Taylor Mays is really ******* fast k.

I'm not a track guy or anything either, but wouldn't his upright stance and stiffness standing straight up while crossing the line also make his time slower than the guys who leaned at the end?

mellojello
03-03-2010, 02:10 AM
I missed it, I asked earlier and someone told me he ran in the 4.4's and then got moved up.

Bah **** it, Taylor Mays is really ******* fast k.

I'm not a track guy or anything either, but wouldn't his upright stance and stiffness standing straight up while crossing the line also make his time slower than the guys who leaned at the end?I was thinking more that a certain movement (ie. hand) sets the official time off sooner?

Agreed, the dude is way too fast for his size. He's a threat to end someone's career each time he hits someone, especially on the college level and I'm personally glad he's off to the NFL. I've seen him in person and it's shocking how much closing speed he has for his size, something you can't measure on TV or youtube. I'd be that much more impressed if they test him for HGH or steroids and he comes back negative.

Addict
03-03-2010, 03:38 AM
I missed it, I asked earlier and someone told me he ran in the 4.4's and then got moved up.

Bah **** it, Taylor Mays is really ******* fast k.

I'm not a track guy or anything either, but wouldn't his upright stance and stiffness standing straight up while crossing the line also make his time slower than the guys who leaned at the end?

if you missed it:

Mays' unofficial times were 4.24 and 4.34, mind-blowingly fast, right? Well his official time was noted down as a 4.43, which is a pretty gargantuan difference, but not impossible.

Now the problem comes in that everyone who actually stopwatches mays' 40 seems to come to an average between 4.29 and 4.33. Why is this important, well his official time would be off by .1 second. That's a pretty big difference. The NFL seems to hold on to that 4.43 official time, evne though the NFLN already put the best times over one another and it shows Mays finishing his forty right in between Ford (officially a 4.28) and Holliday (oficially a 4.34) so there's something very very wrong there.

Mays is fast, but if his official time is .1 second off, than there might be a huge problem in measuring forty times, and those forty times do matter incredibly. For many positions .1 second is millions of dollars in salary.

ectuberider
03-03-2010, 12:38 PM
What about moving him to outside linebacker? that would put the focus on his strengths, big hits, tackling in the box, and even if his coverage skills are sub-par he would still be one of the better cover linebackers out there, thomas davis did it and he was way slower than mays. think about how scary a linebacker who has that kind of burst would be

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 12:50 PM
Because he displays incredible hitting power, but his tackling technique is very poor. Sure, he can blast college receivers going over the middle just by putting his head down and throwing his body into them, but that ****'s not gonna fly in the box against runningbacks that are as big as him.

ChefMike
03-03-2010, 12:52 PM
What about moving him to outside linebacker? that would put the focus on his strengths, big hits, tackling in the box, and even if his coverage skills are sub-par he would still be one of the better cover linebackers out there, thomas davis did it and he was way slower than mays. think about how scary a linebacker who has that kind of burst would be



Kinda makes you think of David Fulcher from the Bengals back in the late 80s and early 90's

Mays could be a great undersized LB on the outside...

bitonti
03-03-2010, 12:53 PM
if a guy can run a legit 4.3 putting him at LB is a waste. You put him in the deep third or deep middle, let him play centerfield while sending blitzers. it's way harder to find centerfielder safeties than will linebackers.

people who project Mays to LB ignore the fact that Thomas Davis, Greg Blue and other LB converts couldn't run sub 4.5 or even 4.6. They moved to LB because they had to... if Thomas Davis could run like Taylor Mays he'd still be a safety.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 01:02 PM
if a guy can run a legit 4.3 putting him at LB is a waste. You put him in the deep third or deep middle, let him play centerfield while sending blitzers. it's way harder to find centerfielder safeties than will linebackers.

people who project Mays to LB ignore the fact that Thomas Davis, Greg Blue and other LB converts couldn't run sub 4.5 or even 4.6. They moved to LB because they had to... if Thomas Davis could run like Taylor Mays he'd still be a safety.

Exactly.

I still think his best fit is to a Tampa Two team. Look at all the game changing safeties in the Tampa Two and none of them are known for their elite cover skills: John Lynch, Bob Sanders, Mike Brown, Adam Archuletta (when he was young).

The thing most people don't realize about Tampa Two teams is that they run Cover 3 and Cover 1 (basically the same thing) just as much as Cover Two. Getting one of the safeties moving forward is essential to stopping the run for that scheme. The actual cover two/Tampa two doesn't get busted out until obvious passing situations and in that situation, you just let Mays stay deep and kill anything that tries to catch the ball in his zone.

Eric Berry, on the other hand, would be wasted in the Tampa Two. I'm not saying that he couldn't do it, but it would be a waste of his talents. He needs to get into an attacking defense that is going to let him use his instincts and freelance a bit.

PossibleCabbage
03-03-2010, 01:20 PM
What about moving him to outside linebacker? that would put the focus on his strengths, big hits, tackling in the box, and even if his coverage skills are sub-par he would still be one of the better cover linebackers out there, thomas davis did it and he was way slower than mays. think about how scary a linebacker who has that kind of burst would be

Before you'd feel comfortable putting Mays as an LB, you'd have to teach him to tackle, since he doesn't do it naturally. Mays usually hits, but he doesn't necessarily tackle. This is generally okay for a defensive back, but is going to cause problems for a linebacker.

ectuberider
03-03-2010, 02:28 PM
Point taken

I wouldn't want my team drafting him regardless as guys who dont have the production to go with their physical traits really scare me as prospects, the majority of players who are stars in the NFL produced at a high level in college. There should be a larger emphasis placed on football instincts and a little less on the measurables in my opinion. As you guys said the cover two is the best fit for him but a lot of good cover two safeties do have decent ball skills, they play the deep third and get a good chance to break on the ball for picks since they can keep everything in front and read the quarterback's eyes as well as the receivers route. a good example is Bob Sanders while he has a lot of big hits and does a great job of run support he gets interceotions as well because he can break on the ball from his deep position, or he can lurk behind the corners and grab balls that are deflected or over thrown.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Point taken

I wouldn't want my team drafting him regardless as guys who dont have the production to go with their physical traits really scare me as prospects, the majority of players who are stars in the NFL produced at a high level in college. There should be a larger emphasis placed on football instincts and a little less on the measurables in my opinion. As you guys said the cover two is the best fit for him but a lot of good cover two safeties do have decent ball skills, they play the deep third and get a good chance to break on the ball for picks since they can keep everything in front and read the quarterback's eyes as well as the receivers route. a good example is Bob Sanders while he has a lot of big hits and does a great job of run support he gets interceotions as well because he can break on the ball from his deep position, or he can lurk behind the corners and grab balls that are deflected or over thrown.

Um...Bob Sanders only has 6 career picks. The most he's ever gotten in a season is 2, and he's only done that once. He does a good job of getting in the passing lanes and making hits in coverage, but nobody is ever going to confuse him for a ballhawk.

In terms of playing style, they're exactly the same. Mays is essentially Bob Sanders at 6'3" instead of 5'8".

bigbuc
03-03-2010, 06:18 PM
I don't like Mays that much... But this last year he most likely was not at 100% from that leg whip that hurt his knee in the OSU game. Still think he doesn't have a lot of "football IQ" but if Roy Williams could be good for 4 to 5 years in the NFL then Mays could as well.

bigbuc
03-03-2010, 06:22 PM
Um...Bob Sanders only has 6 career picks. The most he's ever gotten in a season is 2, and he's only done that once. He does a good job of getting in the passing lanes and making hits in coverage, but nobody is ever going to confuse him for a ballhawk.

In terms of playing style, they're exactly the same. Mays is essentially Bob Sanders at 6'3" instead of 5'8".


Don't forget that Bob Sanders has only played in 45 to 50 games. He's been in the league for sometime now just hasn't seen the field for awhile.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 06:29 PM
Don't forget that Bob Sanders has only played in 45 to 50 games. He's been in the league for sometime now just hasn't seen the field for awhile.

That can largely be attributed to the fact that his frame is not conducive to his style of play. Mays doesn't have that problem.

Saints-Tigers
03-03-2010, 06:37 PM
Um...Bob Sanders only has 6 career picks. The most he's ever gotten in a season is 2, and he's only done that once. He does a good job of getting in the passing lanes and making hits in coverage, but nobody is ever going to confuse him for a ballhawk.

In terms of playing style, they're exactly the same. Mays is essentially Bob Sanders at 6'3" instead of 5'8".

Mays isn't as instinctive or active. Maybe it's due to system, but he's way more in the fray than Taylor has been.

niel89
03-03-2010, 06:40 PM
That can largely be attributed to the fact that his frame is not conducive to his style of play. Mays doesn't have that problem.

True Bob Sanders weakness is his size. The way he plays his frame is a weakness. Mays has 20-25 pounds and 7" on Sanders, so his body will probably has a better chance of staying healthy.

If Mays can be a Bob Sanders than he is worth a high draft pick.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 06:47 PM
Mays isn't as instinctive or active. Maybe it's due to system, but he's way more in the fray than Taylor has been.

It is more system.

Mays was used at USC similairly to how the Colts use Antoine Bethea. Handle the deep middle, keep everything in front of you in coverage, etc. etc. Imagine if they had used him like the Colts use Sanders.

The Colts' defense utilizes the weakside Cover Three more than anything else. It's virtually the same thing as the Cover Three, except the responsibilities of the FS and SS are swapped. At the snap of the ball, Sanders begins moving forward to either cover the hook/curl zone or to smack any runningback that comes across the line of scrimmage. The only time they really use him in deep coverage is in obvious passing situations, and that's when they run Cover Two.

LonghornsLegend
03-03-2010, 06:56 PM
if a guy can run a legit 4.3 putting him at LB is a waste.

I know right!! It was so stupid trying to make Patrick Willis a LB, he definately should of been a safety, everybody knows that it's a waste being fast as a LB :rolleyes:


It's a waste putting Mays at LB because he doesn't have the proper tackling technique and tackling is probably job #1 for a LB, not because he's fast.

Saints-Tigers
03-03-2010, 07:00 PM
It is more system.

Mays was used at USC similairly to how the Colts use Antoine Bethea. Handle the deep middle, keep everything in front of you in coverage, etc. etc. Imagine if they had used him like the Colts use Sanders.

The Colts' defense utilizes the weakside Cover Three more than anything else. It's virtually the same thing as the Cover Three, except the responsibilities of the FS and SS are swapped. At the snap of the ball, Sanders begins moving forward to either cover the hook/curl zone or to smack any runningback that comes across the line of scrimmage. The only time they really use him in deep coverage is in obvious passing situations, and that's when they run Cover Two.

Mays and LaRon Landry at LSU are really the only top tier safety prospects that I can think of that actually played the role of traditional safety, as in, the last line of defense, either covering deep balls, or being the clean up guy if everyone else misses the tackle.

The "rover" and free lance safety is how the top notch safeties make their mark, I still question how effective Mays will be in that role.

yourfavestoner
03-03-2010, 07:51 PM
Mays and LaRon Landry at LSU are really the only top tier safety prospects that I can think of that actually played the role of traditional safety, as in, the last line of defense, either covering deep balls, or being the clean up guy if everyone else misses the tackle.

The "rover" and free lance safety is how the top notch safeties make their mark, I still question how effective Mays will be in that role.

I agree. That's why I think Tampa Two SS is the best fit for somebody of his talents.

Jericho@SC
03-03-2010, 10:00 PM
Mays will excel in deep zone coverage as a safety. His size and speed give him advantages you can't find in anyone else. People don't understand why he made very few plays at 'SC. It was cuz Carroll asked him to prevent the big play, and he did that very well.

Make fun of his lack of picks and stiff hips, but he has hands down the best range sideline to sideline and the biggest pop out of any other safety in this class, and probably the last few years.

If you play him deep he'll be able to cover more ground than Eric Berry and have a better chance to jar the ball loose than Chad Jones.

If it's 3rd and long and you need to prevent a deep jump ball to Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald, who do you want going up for that jump ball? Major Wright at 5'11? Myron Rolle at 6'1? What about Taylor Mays at 6'3 with a 40 inch vertical?

This is what Mays excels at, and it is very valuable to an NFL Defensive Coordinator, and very important for a Safety (note the word, "Safety," as in last line of defense)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l6sQh5bGyg

Morton
03-03-2010, 10:11 PM
Bill Walsh on safeties:


Those free safeties who could come up and make a major impact hit and finish off the ball-carrier, were the great ones.

There may be situations where the safety has to cover, but there are ways to protect the weak safety. You could put a linebacker on the receiver and the safety just backs him up, for example.

The great free, or weak, safeties are ones who had great range. Often they are in the 6-2, 6-3 category at 190 pounds and have excellent speed and range, much like a hurdler in track. They can go for a ball and with excellent hands be a major factor from sideline to sideline. If a weak safety can have this type of range and can cover ground in full stride so he can work either sideline when the ball is in the air, then he can have a great impact on the defense.




If you have a weak safety who will make the big hit, the pulverizing hit, and finish off tackles, ala Ronnie Lott, then you really have a weapon. It was Ronnie Lott vs. Eric Dickerson of the Rams in a matchup that fans and media sometimes weren't alert to. But it was Lott finishing off the tackles so Dickerson couldn't break free. Lott would either finish him off while somebody was holding him or Lott would just meet him right in the hole and stop the play. So that matchup, the weak safety vs. the running back, also can be a significant one.


http://www.sportsxchange.com/DS97/walsh/walsh2s.htm


Then again, this was written 10+ years ago, so maybe this stuff is more relevant to the NFL when it was less of a pass-first league. I dunno.

Either way, sounds like Taylor Mays would be Bill Walsh's ultimate safety.

BaLLiN
03-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Mays will excel in deep zone coverage as a safety. His size and speed give him advantages you can't find in anyone else. People don't understand why he made very few plays at 'SC. It was cuz Carroll asked him to prevent the big play, and he did that very well.

Make fun of his lack of picks and stiff hips, but he has hands down the best range sideline to sideline and the biggest pop out of any other safety in this class, and probably the last few years.

If you play him deep he'll be able to cover more ground than Eric Berry and have a better chance to jar the ball loose than Chad Jones.

If it's 3rd and long and you need to prevent a deep jump ball to Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald, who do you want going up for that jump ball? Major Wright at 5'11? Myron Rolle at 6'1? What about Taylor Mays at 6'3 with a 40 inch vertical?

This is what Mays excels at, and it is very valuable to an NFL Defensive Coordinator, and very important for a Safety (note the word, "Safety," as in last line of defense)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l6sQh5bGyg

His lack of picks has alot to do with his instincts. Players with his physical ability should be expected to take advantage of their skills and make plays instead of letting them come to them.

Perfect example is at the senior bowl when the ball floated and he was practically already in position before it was thrown. This is the difference between a player and a playmaker.

His hips, are not so good, but if he somehow could be taught instincts through relearning the position. What happened at USC limited his progression IMO, but being a safety is alot more mental; the physical skills may help recover from a disposition in coverage, but mental is key.

At the moment, the bolded statement scares me. You're weighing so much on combine numbers, if that happened right now, id close my eyes and wait till the hurting is over. A rookie safety is not the thing i want going up against those guys, even if he can jump a small building or run faster than a cop car.

another thing, if your using the definition of safety, im not sure im too safe with taylor mays trying to blow up receivers instead of making a wrapup tackle or pass deflection.

LonghornsLegend
03-03-2010, 11:52 PM
If it's 3rd and long and you need to prevent a deep jump ball to Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald, who do you want going up for that jump ball? Major Wright at 5'11? Myron Rolle at 6'1? What about Taylor Mays at 6'3 with a 40 inch vertical?


And Ed Reed is 5'11 with a 4.57 40 time and a 37 inch vertical.


I wish people would stop talking about stuff like this as if it has anything to do with football on the field. Mays can cover alot of ground but there are numerous times I've seen him take terrible angles on deep balls and not be where he is supposed to be.


If it's 3rd and long I want the safety with great instincts and ball skills to prevent a long deep ball, I could give two ***** about how tall he is and how high he can jump at that point.

Mr. Goosemahn
03-24-2010, 10:54 PM
Per Rotoworld:

"Former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah says he hasn't spoken to one team that has USC S Taylor Mays rated ahead of USF S Nate Allen.

NFLN's Mike Mayock has Allen as his No. 4 safety, behind Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, and Mays. A banger with the hip fluidity to man centerfield, Allen was unable to run at the Combine due to a pulled thigh muscle. Currently a projected second-round pick, he could vault into round one with a sub-4.5."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=5760

TACKLE
03-24-2010, 11:31 PM
Per Rotoworld:

"Former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah says he hasn't spoken to one team that has USC S Taylor Mays rated ahead of USF S Nate Allen.

NFLN's Mike Mayock has Allen as his No. 4 safety, behind Earl Thomas, Eric Berry, and Mays. A banger with the hip fluidity to man centerfield, Allen was unable to run at the Combine due to a pulled thigh muscle. Currently a projected second-round pick, he could vault into round one with a sub-4.5."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=5760

I'm skeptical but it wouldn't shock me to see Mays fall into the late first though I don't see him getting past Minnesota at #30.

CC.SD
03-24-2010, 11:38 PM
I really feel like the huge amounts of people talking about how Mays isn't instinctual/hasn't shown anything on the field have not seen much gamefilm of him. Taylor knows how to play football people. At this rate he is going to be a huge steal for somebody.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Hopefully Denver.

CC.SD
03-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Hopefully Denver.

Ewww it's bad enough I have to see Jamal wearing orange.

TACKLE
03-25-2010, 01:07 AM
I really feel like the huge amounts of people talking about how Mays isn't instinctual/hasn't shown anything on the field have not seen much gamefilm of him. Taylor knows how to play football people. At this rate he is going to be a huge steal for somebody.

Totally agree. I think he will be a huge presence on the defense for whatever team drafts him. Everyone knows he has freak ability but the guy loves football and is one of the hardest workers you'll find. I really don't see him not being successful.

SenorGato
03-25-2010, 08:28 AM
Totally agree. I think he will be a huge presence on the defense for whatever team drafts him. Everyone knows he has freak ability but the guy loves football and is one of the hardest workers you'll find. I really don't see him not being successful.

The thought process is that if he's not great now he'll never be great. It's the same crap with Terrence Cody...the guys done everything right but get to 330 fast enough so therefore he'll never get his weight down period.

yourfavestoner
03-25-2010, 10:20 AM
I really feel like the huge amounts of people talking about how Mays isn't instinctual/hasn't shown anything on the field have not seen much gamefilm of him. Taylor knows how to play football people. At this rate he is going to be a huge steal for somebody.

He's going to go to some lucky Tampa Two team and be a Godzilla Bob Sanders.

Rosebud
03-25-2010, 10:28 AM
The thought process is that if he's not great now he'll never be great. It's the same crap with Terrence Cody...the guys done everything right but get to 330 fast enough so therefore he'll never get his weight down period.

Bad analogy. Cody's work ethic is his biggest concern, while no one doubts Mays' work ethic. Both are raw with a lot of raw potential but that's where the comparison ends.

I_C_DeadPeople
03-25-2010, 12:21 PM
I really feel like the huge amounts of people talking about how Mays isn't instinctual/hasn't shown anything on the field have not seen much gamefilm of him. Taylor knows how to play football people. At this rate he is going to be a huge steal for somebody.

I thought it was the guys who WERE watching film of USC who simply don't see him making enough plays to warrant the hype created by his physical abilities. I would think because of the hype and the program's visibility, scouts will have watched every mm of film on the guy.

He is simply going to be one of those boom/bust types. Over hyped or miscalculated. Time will tell.

CC.SD
03-25-2010, 12:39 PM
He is simply going to be one of those boom/bust types. Over hyped or miscalculated. Time will tell.

I don't doubt his ability to boom, but really don't see him busting hard. I mean in the worst case scenario you have an ultra fast safety who hits like a mack truck. This is the NFL, Roy Williams still has a career here.