PDA

View Full Version : 1st round Corners


the_dark_knight
03-01-2010, 08:23 PM
He's winning the battle for that #2 corner spot now, seems to have sparked some good discussion in the wrong thread (combine results) just thought he deserved a thread to discuss him.

Also wondering, if Kyle Wilson comes off the board @ 19 to the Falcons or @ 20 to the Texans, would that spark a run on corners pushing players up into the first round, or are the teams later in the first looking fairly solid, and would the better value lay in the 3rd round for a corner?

A guy like Perrish Cox doesn't show up on Mayock's board of top corners this year, but to me he's got enough of a blend of playmaking potential to really make a splash in the league.

Who are some other corners you guys see going in round 1?

Mr.Regular
03-01-2010, 08:26 PM
Haden is an obvious lock.
After that there are a ton of guys bunched together in that second tier though Wilson looks to be seperating himelf from the pack. After that you have Donovan Warren, Perrish Cox, Devin McCourty, Kareem Jackson, and Patrick Robinson all with outside shots at sneaking into the first, but the second round is more likely for all of them.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Haden, Wilson, then 1 of the 5 I mentioned all go in the first.

the_dark_knight
03-01-2010, 08:31 PM
Haden is an obvious lock.
After that there are a ton of guys bunched together in that second tier though Wilson looks to be seperating himelf from the pack. After that you have Donovan Warren, Perrish Cox, Devin McCourty, Kareem Jackson, and Patrick Robinson all with outside shots at sneaking into the first, but the second round is more likely for all of them.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Haden, Wilson, then 1 of the 5 I mentioned all go in the first.

Cool thanks for the reply. If you had to guess at which one snuck into the first round who do you think it would be?

Patrick Robinson has all the physical gifts in the world, but seems like his effort is getting blasted by analysts and never seemed to be much of a playmaker. Reminds me of Chris Houston coming out of Arkansas.

Mr.Regular
03-01-2010, 08:39 PM
Cool thanks for the reply. If you had to guess at which one snuck into the first round who do you think it would be?

Patrick Robinson has all the physical gifts in the world, but seems like his effort is getting blasted by analysts and never seemed to be much of a playmaker. Reminds me of Chris Houston coming out of Arkansas.
No problem for the reply!
Personally, I like Warren the most of that group. But at this point Im getting the vibe that NFL types are liking Cox/McCourty the best.
So I would say outside of Haden ( a lock), Wilson (most likely), that any of those 5 could sneak in to the first but if I had to bet Id probably say McCourty one, Cox two.

Watch out for Donovan Warren though. He doesn't get nearly enough love around here, I think hes a first round talent. Hes the #2 or #3 corner in the draft IMO.

Morton
03-01-2010, 08:42 PM
Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson.

the_dark_knight
03-01-2010, 08:43 PM
Alright, thanks. I know Warren has great size, but from what I saw at Michigan he took too many gambles and gave up too many big plays for my liking. If I'm thinking of the right guy didn't he actually get benched in a game earlier in the season for getting blown by a couple of times?

I expect him to put up some gaudy triangle numbers while at the combine, maybe someone will fall in love with him as a first rounder, from what I saw he needs a lot of polishing. Maybe someone like the Jets would be a great landing spot for him, giving him leeway to learn the position, and taking advantage of his athleticism.

Mr.Regular
03-01-2010, 08:50 PM
Alright, thanks. I know Warren has great size, but from what I saw at Michigan he took too many gambles and gave up too many big plays for my liking. If I'm thinking of the right guy didn't he actually get benched in a game earlier in the season for getting blown by a couple of times?

I expect him to put up some gaudy triangle numbers while at the combine, maybe someone will fall in love with him as a first rounder, from what I saw he needs a lot of polishing. Maybe someone like the Jets would be a great landing spot for him, giving him leeway to learn the position, and taking advantage of his athleticism.
Sure Warren made some blunders early in his career but there was never any question about his talent. And this past season I felt he was a stud. The only knocks on him are how he gambles so much, and he makes some mental errors. He has the size, speed, and the athleticism to be an NFL #1.... not to mention hes a stud against the run, he has underrated ball skills, and hes good in one on one situations alone against a WR.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-01-2010, 08:56 PM
I don't see a run on corners in the first round, even if Wilson goes high (like at 19 to Atlanta). Guys like Robinson and Cox are too inconsistent and Warren isn't really athletic enough (as mainly a cover corner) to warrant being picked in the top 32 when other defensive positions are so strong.

I think a run on safeties is more likely.

the_dark_knight
03-01-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't see a run on corners in the first round, even if Wilson goes high (like at 19 to Atlanta). Guys like Robinson and Cox are too inconsistent and Warren isn't really athletic enough (as mainly a cover corner) to warrant being picked in the top 32 when other defensive positions are so strong.

I think a run on safeties is more likely.

Interesting, I only see 3 first round safeties, and honestly I only think 1 belongs in the first round.

critesy
03-01-2010, 09:00 PM
He's winning the battle for that #2 corner spot now, seems to have sparked some good discussion in the wrong thread (combine results) just thought he deserved a thread to discuss him.

Also wondering, if Kyle Wilson comes off the board @ 19 to the Falcons or @ 20 to the Texans, would that spark a run on corners pushing players up into the first round, or are the teams later in the first looking fairly solid, and would the better value lay in the 3rd round for a corner?

A guy like Perrish Cox doesn't show up on Mayock's board of top corners this year, but to me he's got enough of a blend of playmaking potential to really make a splash in the league.

Who are some other corners you guys see going in round 1?

who is 'he' ?

Paranoidmoonduck
03-01-2010, 09:01 PM
Interesting, I only see 3 first round safeties, and honestly I only think 1 belongs in the first round.

Eric Berry?

I think we could see Berry and Thomas go high due to need, which could send Mays and Jones up boards. Whether you call that a run or not is your call, but I think we could very well see twice as many safeties as corners go in the top 32.

LonghornsLegend
03-01-2010, 09:02 PM
Sure Warren made some blunders early in his career but there was never any question about his talent. And this past season I felt he was a stud. The only knocks on him are how he gambles so much, and he makes some mental errors. He has the size, speed, and the athleticism to be an NFL #1.... not to mention hes a stud against the run, he has underrated ball skills, and hes good in one on one situations alone against a WR.

I still like Warren alot, he was a guy I wanted Dallas to seriously look at with our 1st rounder and still do if he checks out. I think he'd thrive in a man scheme as aggressive as ours is. I still like Wilson more at this point, but those are my top 2 guys after Haden.

TitanHope
03-01-2010, 09:11 PM
I don't see a run on corners in the first round, even if Wilson goes high (like at 19 to Atlanta). Guys like Robinson and Cox are too inconsistent and Warren isn't really athletic enough (as mainly a cover corner) to warrant being picked in the top 32 when other defensive positions are so strong.

I think a run on safeties is more likely.

Eric Berry?

I think we could see Berry and Thomas go high due to need, which could send Mays and Jones up boards. Whether you call that a run or not is your call, but I think we could very well see twice as many safeties as corners go in the top 32.

I agree on safeties. I think that'll also cause a team to reach on Nate Allen.


I've seen Kyle Wilson be compared to Cortland Finnegan. /random

the_dark_knight
03-01-2010, 11:55 PM
Berry is the only first round quality safety in my opinion. But I'd love to see a run on safeties thatpushes more talent down.

SenorGato
03-02-2010, 12:24 AM
I still like Warren alot, he was a guy I wanted Dallas to seriously look at with our 1st rounder and still do if he checks out. I think he'd thrive in a man scheme as aggressive as ours is. I still like Wilson more at this point, but those are my top 2 guys after Haden.

+1

Warren's my favorite CB in this draft that the Jets can get at 29. He'd thrive with D's like the Jets', Cowboys', or Ravens.'

Mr.Regular
03-02-2010, 01:04 AM
+1

Warren's my favorite CB in this draft that the Jets can get at 29. He'd thrive with D's like the Jets', Cowboys', or Ravens.'
Glad to see Warren get some love around here! Guy is seriously talented. He had a great year last year too that no one seemed to notice. If he slips deep into the second round someones getting a steal.

TACKLE
03-02-2010, 01:44 AM
If had to tier them think it would look something like this. The players in the tiers are not in order.


Tier 1
Joe Haden

Tier 2
Devin McCourty
Kyle Wilson
Perrish Cox
Kareem Jackson

Tier 3
Dominique Franks
Donovan Warren
Brandon Ghee
Jerome Murphy
Amari Spivey

I think the corners in the first two tiers all have a shot at being taken in the first. With that being said, there will probably be only 2 maybe 3 CB's selected in the first.

BuddyCHRIST
03-02-2010, 06:28 AM
I like the class and think alot of the players could end up being great in the league. There could be a run, especially if Haden gets picked high. I think Robinson will move into the 1st after he runs a sub 4.4.

DiG
03-02-2010, 07:56 AM
I like the class and think alot of the players could end up being great in the league. There could be a run, especially if Haden gets picked high. I think Robinson will move into the 1st after he runs a sub 4.4.

why would that move him into the 1st? speed has never been the knock on his game. ive always expected him to be a sub 4.4 guy.

Mr.KnowItAll
03-02-2010, 08:22 AM
I don't see a run on corners in the first round, even if Wilson goes high (like at 19 to Atlanta). Guys like Robinson and Cox are too inconsistent and Warren isn't really athletic enough (as mainly a cover corner) to warrant being picked in the top 32 when other defensive positions are so strong.

I think a run on safeties is more likely.

In what games this year was Cox inconsistent? Was it against Georgia when he shut down A.J. Green? How about Texas when he shut down Shipley?

People who watch FSU know Robinson had a down year because of their D-Line. If you don't get pressure on the QB it's hard to cover.

BuddyCHRIST
03-02-2010, 09:16 AM
why would that move him into the 1st? speed has never been the knock on his game. ive always expected him to be a sub 4.4 guy.

Because doing it is a different story, Everyone expected Ford to run in the 4.2's but I've still heard people say his stock went up since he ran the 4.28. Also Robinson will look good in drills.

gonzo1105
03-02-2010, 09:49 AM
Because doing it is a different story, Everyone expected Ford to run in the 4.2's but I've still heard people say his stock went up since he ran the 4.28. Also Robinson will look good in drills.

I dont think it matters how good Robinson does in drills or the 40. I see him at best going as the 3rd Corner off the board. To inconsistent in college, game tapes dont lie. I'm an FSU as well and I agree with the general consensus on him being the 3rd to 6th Corner off the board

bitonti
03-02-2010, 10:28 AM
wherever chris cook gets picked, it will be a steal

LizardState
03-02-2010, 10:41 AM
Berry is the only first round quality safety in my opinion. But I'd love to see a run on safeties that pushes more talent down.

Count on the 1st rd run on safeties. PFW Draft mag identified safety as the top team need defensively, with 11 teams as a #1 need, could be a Berry tradeup bidding war.

Only 2 teams had CB as the #1 need, & one of them is the 49ers, with Harris missing all of 09 with (14-yr.) career-ending surgery, Shawntae Spencer coming back from MCL surgery, & big-$ FA Clements tanking, being benched then fracturing a shoulderblade on a punt return & missing the rest of the season they have to have CB at the top of their board

Paranoidmoonduck
03-02-2010, 02:13 PM
In what games this year was Cox inconsistent? Was it against Georgia when he shut down A.J. Green? How about Texas when he shut down Shipley?

People who watch FSU know Robinson had a down year because of their D-Line. If you don't get pressure on the QB it's hard to cover.

I've heard from a lot of places that both Robinson and Cox seemed to lapse in coverage a bit too much for scouts to be comfortable. I like both players, especially Cox, but I don't see either being top 32 picks.

Grizzlegom
03-02-2010, 02:32 PM
I'm of the mindset that there will be 3 first round CBs (not counting Berry or Thomas, both of whom i think could get looks at CB) and those are Haden (Top 15), Wilson (top 20) and Kareem Jackson (top 30). If Atlanta and Houston both take CBs, I think some of the others could creep up into the tail end because of needs (McCourty and/or Franks).

RealityCheck
03-02-2010, 02:39 PM
Haden, Wilson and maybe, maybe, Robinson or Cox.

Clarkw267
03-02-2010, 02:48 PM
Guys with a 1st round grade as of now for me would be:

Haden
Wilson
Jackson
McCourty

I think those guys have the best combination of game tape and measurables.

Cicero
03-02-2010, 02:59 PM
So is Haden even a CB anymore? Looking at the times from last year the only CBs last year that ran as slow as him and got drafted were Macho Harris, Cary Harris (who are both now safeties) and Joe Burnett.

diesel
03-02-2010, 03:02 PM
So is Haden even a CB anymore? Looking at the times from last year the only CBs last year that ran as slow as him and got drafted were Macho Harris, Cary Harris (who are both now safeties) and Joe Burnett.

That's right, scouts are going to ignore his complete college career and go by his combine 40.

We all know how accurate it was after they SHOW Mays beating Holliday and clock him far slower.

Cicero
03-02-2010, 03:03 PM
That's right, scouts are going to ignore his complete college career and go by his combine 40.

We all know how accurate it was after they SHOW Mays beating Holliday and clock him far slower.

The hand times for Haden don't seem to be far off from the 4.57 he sits at now.

Mr.KnowItAll
03-02-2010, 04:11 PM
Brandon Flowers: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/3/2/1333246/chiefs-cb-brandon-flowers-wonders

Cicero
03-02-2010, 04:28 PM
Brandon Flowers: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/3/2/1333246/chiefs-cb-brandon-flowers-wonders

Sorry, my question should have been is he still a CB in a man scheme? I'm sure he can play CB in a zone scheme like Flowers.

Mr.KnowItAll
03-02-2010, 04:34 PM
I think zone will fit him better. He still has great quickness and ball skill.

V.I.P
03-02-2010, 04:58 PM
Haden, Wilson look guranteed to go in the first, but nobody knows who the #3 corner is. It could be Parrish Cox, Patrick Robinson, Donovan Warren, or Devin McCourty. None of them has solidified as the third best cornerback in the draft yet. It just depends on who'd picking, and which corner they think is best suited for their defense.

Supporting Caste
03-02-2010, 05:47 PM
Just about everyone on this forum underrates Amari Spievey, even after he posted arguably the best workout among CBs.

The Iowa homers probably make up for the deficiency in themselves, though. I can't believe they haven't burned down this thread!

Grizzlegom
03-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Just about everyone on this forum underrates Amari Spievey, even after he posted arguably the best workout among CBs.

The Iowa homers probably make up for the deficiency in themselves, though. I can't believe they haven't burned down this thread!

Spievey is one of my favorite CBs in this draft but he's I can't find a way to place him any higher than 5th best CB and that pushing it.

ToldLikeItIs
03-02-2010, 06:10 PM
Spievey's solid.

Best workout among CBs, that's a stretch.

iowatreat54
03-03-2010, 06:02 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Amari-Spievey-on-the-rise.html

Link saying the Falcons consider Spievey a 1st round pick.

prock
03-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Cornerback is the most fluid position as far as rankings go in this draft class. I think the first two are clear, and the next 5+ could all mix and match and no one would throw a fit about it.

ToldLikeItIs
03-03-2010, 06:33 PM
Just re watched his workout.

I think at the pro day he'll shave a bit off his forty, actually lift, and have a full workout.

He did look rather good in field drills though.

Top 3 workout at corner, but McCourty was better.

ToldLikeItIs
03-03-2010, 06:46 PM
Didn't mean to post twice.

PACKmanN
03-03-2010, 07:21 PM
I could see the same thing happen to this CB class that happened to the WR class a couple of years ago. Haden is the only first round talent CB, and the others have gone up because of need, but are not first round talent.

LonghornsLegend
03-03-2010, 08:12 PM
Thought this pertained to this thread:


According to former Browns scout Daniel Jeremiah, some NFL teams have Boise State CB Kyle Wilson rated ahead of Florida CB Joe Haden.

Jeremiah indicates that this was the case even before Haden ran poorly at the Scouting Combine. Both CBs are roughly the same build, and Wilson has clearly had a better offseason after standing out as one of the top players at January's Senior Bowl. Wilson seems to be a surefire top-20 selection.
Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter

the_dark_knight
03-03-2010, 08:15 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Amari-Spievey-on-the-rise.html

Link saying the Falcons consider Spievey a 1st round pick.

Wow, that's impressive considering Thomas Dimitroff was a DB scout, ya know, the guy who found Asante Samuel in the 3rd round. Could Spievey suffer a similar fate on draft day? There isn't enough room for all the corners to go first round, but this could give some insight on the Falcons plans come draft day. interesting, thanks for posting.

RWills
03-03-2010, 08:59 PM
This draft is deep, there will be first round ranked corners available in the second 1a-Haden, 1b-Wilson, Jackson and McCourty are first round values with Spievey and Robinson following right behind. I think McGhee, Murphy and Cook moved ahead of Cox after the combine. After that I got Owusu-Ansah, Thanks and Thompson

IMO

toonsterwu
03-04-2010, 07:34 PM
I think this will be a fascinating draft to watch in that, runs on positions will factor into things. So how many CB's are in the first, I can't say.

What I will say is that, when I started doing my player tiering, I only could get two CB's into the top 6 tiers (top 30 players). I love Joe Haden, and I don't really give a crap about his 40. Kyle WIlson was my other guy ... and I don't believe Kyle is a solid first grade.

It's a very talented crop of CB's, but many of them have holes here and there. A team in the 2nd/3rd should be able to get great CB value.