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bitonti
03-04-2010, 06:48 AM
simple question

how does a QB who missed more than half the season with surgery to his throwing shoulder go number one overall?

over a defensive lineman with reggie white or mean joe greene potential?

i feel like Im taking crazy pills

wicket
03-04-2010, 07:04 AM
simple, qbs are more important

killxswitch
03-04-2010, 07:12 AM
I don't think he will. If a QB goes first it'll be Clausen, not Bradford.

wicket
03-04-2010, 07:16 AM
I think he will. However if a QB goes first it should be Clausen, not Bradford.

fixed that for you

Twitch
03-04-2010, 08:08 AM
fixed that for you

I think he will, however, if a QB goes first it should be Clausen, not Bradford.

Fixed

bigfreak314
03-04-2010, 08:21 AM
I think if the Ram's are so badly in need of a QB want to take a QB trade out of the number 1 pick, swap spots with Tampa Bay and pick up some extra draft picks on the way down and then they could still draft get their respected guy,

bitonti
03-04-2010, 08:28 AM
bradford at 1 is a reach, period.

call me a traditionalist but I want my franchise Qbs to have, ya know, played football in the last 6 months... and I want the number of invasive throwing shoulder surgeries to be zero.

Ozzy
03-04-2010, 08:37 AM
Yeah it would be very dumb to take him #1 overall, especially when underclassmen like Mallet and Locker are far better than him anyway.

And in this class of QB's, a lot of players could surprise people, I could see players like Zac Robinson, Tony Pike, Levi Brown, Dan LeFevour or Sean Canfield being better than Bradford in the end potentially. Will it happen to them all, of course not but I would not be surprised if one of those players turns out to be pretty solid as a quarterback.

But yes, with all the other talent in the draft, I would not waste it on a Bradford, at least not that high.

LonghornsLegend
03-04-2010, 08:37 AM
I think if the Ram's are so badly in need of a QB want to take a QB trade out of the number 1 pick, swap spots with Tampa Bay and pick up some extra draft picks on the way down and then they could still draft get their respected guy,

Yea, cause that's so easy to do right? Because everyone is dying to move up to #1 and take on that guaranteed money.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 09:56 AM
bradford at 1 is a reach, period.

call me a traditionalist but I want my franchise Qbs to have, ya know, played football in the last 6 months... and I want the number of invasive throwing shoulder surgeries to be zero.

Do you happen to recall his last college season and the early process a year ago which had him and Stafford listed as 1A and 1B? Never before has a quarterback been so disrespected. Bradford may not have the hype machine going for him coming off an injured campaign a year ago, but many forget that in just two years as a starter he threw 86 Td's and only 16 Int's. Please, wrap your head against that.

Now wait ten seconds for you programmed excuses to come in....

Stats inflated due to a spread offense? Eh, not by much and what kind of spread are they running down at OU... In 2007 (36:8) he threw only 28.4 passes per game, In 2008 (50:8) he threw 34.5 per game. To let you know, there were only 6 NFL teams that didn't throw the ball at least 30 times a game. His YPA was very high (9.77 in 08') and ranks at the top among recent franchise QB prospects. Many say that you could plug anyone in that offense to succeed. Luckily we have a concrete example in fairly talented backup Landry Jones, who was able to manage 26 Td's 14 Int and 8 wins for the Sooners this year in a slightly simplified version of what Sam was running and with 39.8 attempts per start, Jones threw the ball more than Bradford ever did, but lacked Sam's confidence, pocket presence, and well, ability to throw.

He can make every throw, he is a winner, looks great from a physical standpoint (6'4 1/4 236), is an athletic guy, and possesses the intangibles & throwing mechanics to be a top prospect. If St. Louis would have taken him 2nd Overall a year ago, why wouldn't they take him 1st this year?

Those who are saying it will be Clausen if they take a QB should take a step back and get their heads checked. There's no way you're going to compare the success each had in college, physically it's an easy choice, and Bradford's personality really is the final X-Factor as he seems a bit further along maturity wise. There are a few (myself & TACKLE) who appreciate Bradford here for what he has done on the field and it's amazing how many try to use this shoulder injury to invalidate everything he's done. He's been on a throwing schedule, he's up to 100-120 balls a day and his shoulder should be in good shape for his Pro Day and back back to 100% by the time he has to play full contact.

I agree that McCoy and Suh are two better prospects. In the Rams situation I opt for Bradford though, as you just can't compete consistently in this league without a Quarterback and this has been a long time coming. Last year we heard to put off Sanchez and grab Bradford in 2010, so why are some suggesting they wait until 2011 for Locker/Mallett? The Rams would be wise not to act like me with my school work and not put this need off.

Addict
03-04-2010, 10:12 AM
Señor Pudge is right, Bradford was considered to be the #2 guy right behind Stafford (the difference being arm strength and the system)...

It's not entirely unfair to see that Suh and McCoy are probably the two premier talents of the draft, but Bradford is not a random bum. He has credentials and is a fantastic player. If the Rams pick him, it's not a reach, it's valueing the position Bradfrod plays correctly.

QB's have a bigger impact than DT's, always have, always will. And just so that it doesn't become a "But QB's are sometimes busts!" there have been plenty of high first round busts at the DT position as well.

Ozzy
03-04-2010, 10:15 AM
I agree that McCoy and Suh are two better prospects. In the Rams situation I opt for Bradford though, as you just can't compete consistently in this league without a Quarterback and this has been a long time coming. Last year we heard to put off Sanchez and grab Bradford in 2010, so why are some suggesting they wait until 2011 for Locker/Mallett? The Rams would be wise not to act like me with my school work and not put this need off.Depends no how much you like Bradford, I have never really liked him as a prospect, thus yeah I would put this need for a QB off till next year. Sanchez was a strong armed, athletic leader. Bradford does not have the throwing arm Sanchez has and is not at the same level as a quarterback. Thus again staying Mallett and Locker are better quarterbacks potentially than Bradford so why just take a quarterback to take a quarterback. Again they could easily take a quarterback in the 2nd round with the likes of Pike or Zac Robinson. Or wait till the third and take some of those other guys. They can get a quarterback later with ease.

Suh is almost a lock to being a solid pro player, I cannot say the same thing about Bradford, especially after such an injury.

Grizzlegom
03-04-2010, 10:16 AM
Do you happen to recall his last college season and the early process a year ago which had him and Stafford listed as 1A and 1B? Never before has a quarterback been so disrespected. Bradford may not have the hype machine going for him coming off an injured campaign a year ago, but many forget that in just two years as a starter he threw 86 Td's and only 16 Int's. Please, wrap your head against that.

Now wait ten seconds for you programmed excuses to come in....

Stats inflated due to a spread offense? Eh, not by much and what kind of spread are they running down at OU... In 2007 (36:8) he threw only 28.4 passes per game, In 2008 (50:8) he threw 34.5 per game. To let you know, there were only 6 NFL teams that didn't throw the ball at least 30 times a game. His YPA was very high (9.77 in 08') and ranks at the top among recent franchise QB prospects. Many say that you could plug anyone in that offense to succeed. Luckily we have a concrete example in fairly talented backup Landry Jones, who was able to manage 26 Td's 14 Int and 8 wins for the Sooners this year in a slightly simplified version of what Sam was running and with 39.8 attempts per start, Jones threw the ball more than Bradford ever did, but lacked Sam's confidence, pocket presence, and well, ability to throw.

He can make every throw, he is a winner, looks great from a physical standpoint (6'4 1/4 236), is an athletic guy, and possesses the intangibles & throwing mechanics to be a top prospect. If St. Louis would have taken him 2nd Overall a year ago, why wouldn't they take him 1st this year?

Those who are saying it will be Clausen if they take a QB should take a step back and get their heads checked. There's no way you're going to compare the success each had in college, physically it's an easy choice, and Bradford's personality really is the final X-Factor as he seems a bit further along maturity wise. There are a few (myself & TACKLE) who appreciate Bradford here for what he has done on the field and it's amazing how many try to use this shoulder injury to invalidate everything he's done. He's been on a throwing schedule, he's up to 100-120 balls a day and his shoulder should be in good shape for his Pro Day and back back to 100% by the time he has to play full contact.

I agree that McCoy and Suh are two better prospects. In the Rams situation I opt for Bradford though, as you just can't compete consistently in this league without a Quarterback and this has been a long time coming. Last year we heard to put off Sanchez and grab Bradford in 2010, so why are some suggesting they wait until 2011 for Locker/Mallett? The Rams would be wise not to act like me with my school work and not put this need off.

I agree 100% with everything you said there. I can at least understand the McCoy and Suh love but I still struggle to understand why Clausen is getting any love as the top QB prospect.

bigfreak314
03-04-2010, 10:17 AM
Yea, cause that's so easy to do right? Because everyone is dying to move up to #1 and take on that guaranteed money.

If and only IF Tampa Bay really wants Suh, like every draft expert believes why wouldnt you trade up for a game changer on defense and I might add a defense that last in the league in run defense, (158 yds/game). I know the Glazers are cheap but this aint FA.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 10:22 AM
Yea, cause that's so easy to do right? Because everyone is dying to move up to #1 and take on that guaranteed money.

I think we may see the Manning/Rivers type deal happen again this year. The difference in money from 1st to 3rd is not terribly limiting, imo. But I agree that Tampa wouldn't necessarily want to do it when they probably think they could sit back and draft Suh or McCoy.

St. Louis drafts Suh. Detriot takes McCoy. Tampa takes Bradford and the trade is on, with Tampa giving up a 3rd (they have two) to land the DT they really want.

That is my best guess as to how it goes down.

thenewfeature06
03-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Quarterbacks are vital in the NFL, you need one to contend. Second of all if Bradford came out last year, in which he was healthy he would of been a top 3 Quarterback anyway. And when he did go back alot of people said it was a bad decision because of the possibility of getting hurt, which happened twice. The QB crop is very slim this year with 2 first rounders IMO. Teams that need QBs will make moves or draft them very high.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 10:29 AM
Do you happen to recall his last college season and the early process a year ago which had him and Stafford listed as 1A and 1B? Never before has a quarterback been so disrespected. Bradford may not have the hype machine going for him coming off an injured campaign a year ago, but many forget that in just two years as a starter he threw 86 Td's and only 16 Int's. Please, wrap your head against that.


yeah, you mean his last college season before the THROWING SHOULDER SURGERY? yeah that was great.

Listen if Bradford goes all year with no injury he's worthy of the #1 pick. I can see that and agree. But right now he's damaged goods, i dont care how much weight he gains or how great Drew Brees did. He missed alot of football. If he gets hurt again he's gotta get a second major surgery. Healthy Dt > Injured QB every day of the week. dr james andrews can't tell me Bradford wil be fine, he's the same butcher that opens up Chad Penningtons shoulder once every 2 years.

oh and on a related note if Trent Williams were a real deal Left tackle, Bradford doesn't end up on the surgeons table.

gpngc
03-04-2010, 10:30 AM
The answer is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

They'd much rather pay a QB that kind of money than a defensive tackle. QBs sell tickets.

Plus, (didn't read) I assume people up there have offered the argument that Bradford could be a great pick there football-wise.

DiG
03-04-2010, 10:31 AM
im sorry remind me what bowl game suh took nebraska too? suh may be the better player but with the $$ and expectations that come with the first overall pick you just cant take suh over bradford. going qb also gives Spagnuolo a couple years to turn things around.

bigfreak314
03-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Flash back, 2006 Draft Reggie Bush vs Mario Williams = 2010 Suh vs Bradford

Halsey
03-04-2010, 10:34 AM
Numerous teams wish they didn't let Drew Brees' shoulder injury scare them off. If the Rams think the guy is a franchise QB and think he will recover from shoulder surgery, they can't pass on him. How many years in a row can a team pass on a QB for the 'safe', 'sure bet' lineman. That way of thinking is why they're picking #1 this year.

Addict
03-04-2010, 10:37 AM
im sorry remind me what bowl game suh took nebraska too? suh may be the better player but with the $$ and expectations that come with the first overall pick you just cant take suh over bradford. going qb also gives Spagnuolo a couple years to turn things around.

this is pretty much the rationale. Just this.

Suh/McCoy would provide elite talent and may finally jumpstart that D-Line... Bradford #1 gives the franchise a chance at contending, provides the coach with some room to breathe and it would allow for the start of a new era with a new owner, a (well relatively) new coach and a new QB. It's a win-win-win-win.

gpngc
03-04-2010, 10:40 AM
misread ddddd

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 10:56 AM
Am I crazy for thinking Bradford is the safest QB prospect that has come out in recent memory?

He is essentially Matt Ryan without the high interception numbers. Sure, he didn't play this year but unless he completely forgot how to play football, I don't see how it matters. He utterly dominated the competition when he did play. Getting hurt basically gave him a head start on getting in NFL shape, and he responded by showing up to the combine at 236 pounds.

If the docs say his shoulder checks out medically, I see no reason why he shouldn't be in the running for the first overall pick.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:00 AM
The Rams never seem to do the right thing in the draft. Since S-Jax, have they had what someone would consider to be a "good" draft pick? I didn't like Jason Smith last year at all - Monroe was my #1 OT. I can understand wanting a QB, but selecting one who :

1) is somewhat fragile
2) hasn't demonstrated good pocket presence or good footwork under pressure
3) played in shotgun 95% of the time in college
4) wasn't given free reign to change protections at the LOS

seems like a risky proposition for the Rams.

If I were a team that struggles to keep my QB healthy/upright, those things would all be huge concerns to me. I'd say the Rams qualify as one of those teams.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 11:01 AM
Am I crazy for thinking Bradford is the safest QB prospect that has come out in recent memory?

He is essentially Matt Ryan without the high interception numbers. Sure, he didn't play this year but unless he completely forgot how to play football, I don't see how it matters. He utterly dominated the competition when he did play. Getting hurt basically gave him a head start on getting in NFL shape, and he responded by showing up to the combine at 236 pounds.

If the docs say his shoulder checks out medically, I see no reason why he shouldn't be in the running for the first overall pick.

Exactly. The only point anyone can lean on is his shoulder injury. We see QBs come back from those all the time now. Every team basically says the biggest thing they take away from the combine is the medical checks. They will know if he's good to go, and if he is he is worthy of the 1st overall pick. Plain and simple.

I still think St. Louis could pull a swap and gain an extra pick from Tampa, but it may not even be worth the risk.

Caddy
03-04-2010, 11:02 AM
If and only IF Tampa Bay really wants Suh, like every draft expert believes why wouldnt you trade up for a game changer on defense and I might add a defense that last in the league in run defense, (158 yds/game). I know the Glazers are cheap but this aint FA.



All this Tampa trading up is garbage. There is no way we trade up and pay a player 432423452352 billion dollars guaranteed. We sit at #3, take McCoy, Suh or Berry / possibly but unlikely trade down.

Babylon
03-04-2010, 11:19 AM
I think we may see the Manning/Rivers type deal happen again this year. The difference in money from 1st to 3rd is not terribly limiting, imo. But I agree that Tampa wouldn't necessarily want to do it when they probably think they could sit back and draft Suh or McCoy.

St. Louis drafts Suh. Detriot takes McCoy. Tampa takes Bradford and the trade is on, with Tampa giving up a 3rd (they have two) to land the DT they really want.

That is my best guess as to how it goes down.

This seems to make sense because the higher rated player is clearly Suh (or McCoy for that matter). The differance back then was the trade was done for differant reasons.

Not to get off the subject but for me as a Seattle fan i hope the Rams take a QB and Washington too for that matter. Reasons supplied if needed.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 11:22 AM
1) is somewhat fragile
2) hasn't demonstrated good pocket presence or good footwork under pressure
3) played in shotgun 95% of the time in college
4) wasn't given free reign to change protections at the LOS


2) is complete BS. As a QB prospect on film he's shown more pocket presence than any in recent years. His footwork under pressure was fine and he's shown the ability stay calm to step in to his throws in the face of pressure. Now, he did have a great OL in college and played in the shotgun so he doesn't have that much exposure under pressure, but he was fine when he was forced to create a bit with his feet and does a great job keeping his eyes downfield.

Not sure #4 really hurts him as it's more or less one of the factors that separate him from guy like Tony Pike/Graham Harrell. Most of Bradford's reads were done during the play and he was extremely efficient scanning the field, accounting for DBs, and he goes through his progressions very well without staring down his targets. Pike and Harrell made their reads pre-snap primarily and their offenses were based on 3-4 WR sets and a quick read/throw. Bradford was called to be a little more patient and threw more downfield and to his Tight End/Backs.

I tend to agree with #1, though a college shoulder injury that will be 100% healed before he enters camp doesn't worry me as much as say a knee injury would, or a real nagging shoulder problem. For two years he was very durable, he bulked up to reinforce that throwing shoulder, and I think if you're the Rams you don't necessarily have to consider Bradford a injury liability. He did the smart thing when he decided to rest the shoulder and end his Junior season, and by the time contact rolls around his shoulder would have been fully healed for months.

He did play in the shotgun 95% of the time, but it helped him to get reps under center occasionally in college and he looked good throwing out of that formation (U-C). He's a fluid athlete for the QB position so I'd imagine he'll pick up the new footwork/throwing rhythm with reps in camp and preseason.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Exactly. The only point anyone can lean on is his shoulder injury. We see QBs come back from those all the time now. Every team basically says the biggest thing they take away from the combine is the medical checks. They will know if he's good to go, and if he is he is worthy of the 1st overall pick. Plain and simple.

I still think St. Louis could pull a swap and gain an extra pick from Tampa, but it may not even be worth the risk.

It's not just the shoulder though.

If Bradford goes to the Rams, or really any team with protection problems., he will have lots of pressure in his face. Can he make the NFL throws under diress? Does he have the footwork to weave in and out of that pressure? Is he still effective if the defense knocks him off of his sweet spot?

In the BCS championship, he struggled with the pressure he recieved from the likes of Dunlap & co., and that was with Loadholt protecting him... the designer blitzes and pressure he'll face from the NFL as a member of the Rams will be 2X worse, at least.

Do I think Bradford can be a good QB with the right offense around him? Yes. But to me the difference between a good QB and a franchise guy who deserves to go #1 is if you can make a flawed offense work. Can you still move the ball if your protection isn't great. Can you still put points up when your running game is sputtering and your recievers drop a few passes. Honestly, at this point I don't think Sam Bradford can. I think he needs those other things to be successful.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 11:27 AM
Depends no how much you like Bradford, I have never really liked him as a prospect, thus yeah I would put this need for a QB off till next year. Sanchez was a strong armed, athletic leader. Bradford does not have the throwing arm Sanchez has and is not at the same level as a quarterback. Thus again staying Mallett and Locker are better quarterbacks potentially than Bradford so why just take a quarterback to take a quarterback. Again they could easily take a quarterback in the 2nd round with the likes of Pike or Zac Robinson. Or wait till the third and take some of those other guys. They can get a quarterback later with ease.

Suh is almost a lock to being a solid pro player, I cannot say the same thing about Bradford, especially after such an injury.

Why do you want the Rams to be in a constant rebuilding phase? They took a Franchise Left Tackle last year over Mark Sanchez assuming that the 2010 draft would be the one to grab a Quarterback. Obviously they made no progress without a starting QB and didn't raise morale. I like Ryan Mallett and Jake Locker but you do not pass on Bradford, a picture perfect fit in the WCO, for a DL if you're St. Louis.

Like it or not, I think people are starting to come around to the reality that Sam Bradford is the clear favorite for the 1st Overall Pick.

Also, don't assume the battle here is Bradford vs. Suh, as I think there's a better chance at Gerald McCoy being the top Tackle on the Rams' board.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 11:28 AM
It's not just the shoulder though.

If Bradford goes to the Rams, or really any team with protection problems., he will have lots of pressure in his face. Can he make the NFL throws under diress? Does he have the footwork to weave in and out of that pressure? Is he still effective if the defense knocks him off of his sweet spot?

In the BCS championship, he struggled with the pressure he recieved from the likes of Dunlap & co., and that was with Loadholt protecting him... the designer blitzes and pressure he'll face from the NFL as a member of the Rams will be 2X worse, at least.

Do I think Bradford can be a good QB with the right offense around him? Yes. But to me the difference between a good QB and a franchise guy who deserves to go #1 is if you can make a flawed offense work. Can you still move the ball if your protection isn't great. Can you still put points up when your running game is sputtering and your recievers drop a few passes. Honestly, at this point I don't think Sam Bradford can. I think he needs those other things to be successful.

If the Rams make their selection based off how much help they can get out of their rookie THIS YEAR then they're being incredibly short sighted.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 11:31 AM
It's not just the shoulder though.

If Bradford goes to the Rams, or really any team with protection problems., he will have lots of pressure in his face. Can he make the NFL throws under diress? Does he have the footwork to weave in and out of that pressure? Is he still effective if the defense knocks him off of his sweet spot?

In the BCS championship, he struggled with the pressure he recieved from the likes of Dunlap & co., and that was with Loadholt protecting him... the designer blitzes and pressure he'll face from the NFL as a member of the Rams will be 2X worse, at least.

Loadholt was a better Left Tackle than Jason Smith? St. Louis is young and just starting to grow into themselves on the OL after acquiring Smith 2nd Overall and Jason Brown a year ago. I like the idea of the team grabbing an OL in the 3rd/4th, but honestly their line shouldn't be too bad next year or in a couple years.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
2) is complete BS. As a QB prospect on film he's shown more pocket presence than any in recent years. His footwork under pressure was fine and he's shown the ability stay calm to step in to his throws in the face of pressure. Now, he did have a great OL in college and played in the shotgun so he doesn't have that much exposure under pressure, but he was fine when he was forced to create a bit with his feet and does a great job keeping his eyes downfield.

If you can, link the film. Or give me an example from memory of a few throws from a game or two where he was surrounded by pressure and still got off a quality NFL throw. Ive seen him get away from backside pressure by rolling to his right and throwing on the run, but that's not advanced pocket presence to me. I'm not saying your wrong, but it's been a long while since any of us have seen Bradford regularly and maybe I just forgot. But I distinctly remember him struggling with pressure against UF.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:39 AM
If the Rams make their selection based off how much help they can get out of their rookie THIS YEAR then they're being incredibly short sighted.

It isn't about this year. The Rams haven't been able to protect their QB for, ohh, five or six years?

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 11:46 AM
It isn't about this year. The Rams haven't been able to protect their QB for, ohh, five or six years?
Exactly why they went out and signed one of the best centers in the league in 2009, added Smith in last years' draft and Greco in the 3rd back in 08. Like Pudge mentioned, a new G in the 3rd or 4th and some more time together (Smith missed time last year, iirc) could be the difference for the Rams Oline.

killxswitch
03-04-2010, 11:47 AM
Aren't there some questions about Jason Smith's concussions and his long-term health?

bitonti
03-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Am I crazy for thinking Bradford is the safest QB prospect that has come out in recent memory?
.

yes im sorry that is crazy.

NO Surgery > Surgery.


no matter what James Andrews says... this still happened

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/09/05/1252206628_5469/539w.jpg

bigfreak314
03-04-2010, 11:54 AM
All this Tampa trading up is garbage. There is no way we trade up and pay a player 432423452352 billion dollars guaranteed. We sit at #3, take McCoy, Suh or Berry / possibly but unlikely trade down.

LMAO!!!!! That aint even a real number. I understand alot of ppl say sit but if we have a chance to get somebody that can make a Warren Sapp impact maybe even as a rookie? Think about this Suh played in a system where he was supposed to occupy blockers instead of penetrating and wreaking havoc like he should. Only game the coaches turned him loose, NB vs UT. I'm a Longhorns fan and it was both painful and exciting to watch a player dominate the line of scrimmage like that. Now if the organization feels he is not worth it then by all means sit an let the best player come to you because in my opinion Eric Berry aint that bad of a consilation prize.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 11:54 AM
If you can, link the film. Or give me an example from memory of a few throws from a game or two where he was surrounded by pressure and still got off a quality NFL throw. Ive seen him get away from backside pressure by rolling to his right and throwing on the run, but that's not advanced pocket presence to me. I'm not saying your wrong, but it's been a long while since any of us have seen Bradford regularly and maybe I just forgot. But I distinctly remember him struggling with pressure against UF.

Generally speaking Oklahoma ran a lot of screens to counter the blitz and I'll try not to include them, though they provide good examples of Bradford stepping into contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwstGmNajh0

- See 0:14
- 1:30
- 1:44
- 1:58
- 2:05
- 3:22 is particularly impressive
- 5:08 with Suh in his face
- 6:47 things start to breakdown, there's some pressure, good play
- 7:02
- 9:11 is vs. the Gators, he stays clam under a little heat makes a great throw

That's just one video. You have to give his OL some credit, they were great. Still, I've analyzed prospects that get happy feet under pressure (Troy Smith & Brady Quinn) but Bradford does a great job standing tall in the pocket, baiting blitzers into screens, and is not afraid to step into a hit to make a throw.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 11:57 AM
yes im sorry that is crazy.

NO Surgery > Surgery.


no matter what James Andrews says... this still happened


I don't exactly know what your point is. He doesn't deserve to be the #1 pick because he hurt his shoulder or he won't be the 1st Overall pick? Either way I think the fact you are neglecting is St. Louis holds the #1 pick, drafted a franchise LT last year and put off the need for a QB until 2010. Well, it's 2010 and here he is... when they played on the same field no one was saying Suh over Bradford, but some people really forgot how good he is.

He'll be 100% by camp and already is throwing 100-120 passes a day and says his shoulder is holding up great. He's not ready for contact quite yet, but will be ready if the Rams need him to start the 2010 season. You do know that Ndamukong Suh has a history of knee surgeries, correct? Neither of the two have a completely clean medical record.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Aren't there some questions about Jason Smith's concussions and his long-term health?

There's something going on, yes. But I'm not 100% sure on what his status is expected to be. There haven't been any concrete reports one way or the other. Though Spags has said he doesn't expect it to impact the Rams draft, not that any real meaning can be attached to that statement.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 12:00 PM
yes im sorry that is crazy.

NO Surgery > Surgery.


no matter what James Andrews says... this still happened

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/09/05/1252206628_5469/539w.jpg

So the medical opinion of the greatest surgeon for sports injuries (and the man who performed the surgery, no less) doesn't mean anything?

Dr. Andrews told Miami that Drew Brees' shoulder was fine, and he suffered a much worse injury. Miami's doctors disagreed with Dr. Andrews' assessment and they ended up with Daunte Culpepper.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 12:01 PM
This happened, too.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/09072008brady_source600.jpg

So, um, what was the point again?

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 12:04 PM
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/brees_injury.jpg

And this.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 12:08 PM
So the medical opinion of the greatest surgeon for sports injuries (and the man who performed the surgery, no less) doesn't mean anything?

Dr. Andrews told Miami that Drew Brees' shoulder was fine, and he suffered a much worse injury. Miami's doctors disagreed with Dr. Andrews' assessment and they ended up with Daunte Culpepper.

Not to mention Bradford very wisely CHOSE to sit out the rest of the 2009-10 season and is throwing 100-120 passes per throwing session now. My bet, he clinches the 1st pick at his Pro Day where he should throw extremely well. I would also bet that he's 100% by camp and will be completely ready for full contact in the Preseason. Honestly I think it's the best pick for St. Louis any way. If Ndamukong Suh reaches his potential he could be a perennial All-Pro and a rock on defense fro St. Louis, if Bradford reaches his he could lead the Rams back to the playoffs and into a 10 win consistent contender. Obviously so much of that depends on where the franchise helps each player, but Bradford has the potential to change the Rams losing ways.

jth1331
03-04-2010, 12:11 PM
If you can, link the film. Or give me an example from memory of a few throws from a game or two where he was surrounded by pressure and still got off a quality NFL throw. Ive seen him get away from backside pressure by rolling to his right and throwing on the run, but that's not advanced pocket presence to me. I'm not saying your wrong, but it's been a long while since any of us have seen Bradford regularly and maybe I just forgot. But I distinctly remember him struggling with pressure against UF.

I watched the OU-UF game, and the problem was NOT Sam Bradford.
Bradford was 26-41 for 256 yards in that game throwing 2 TD's, however did throw 2 picks.
People think he did horrible, but both picks were result of his WR dropping the pass, especially the 2nd one which Iglesias deep down the field, a perfect pass, where he couldn't haul in the pass and tipped it right to the Florida safety. Heck, at least half of his interceptions in 2008 were result of his WR dropping the pass and the DB getting the rebound.
In the BYU game, he did well I think with how crappy protection he was getting. The blocking in that game was atrocious, and he played well despite that IMO. Demarco Murray and Ryan Broyles both had fumbles inside the 30 yard line that cost the Sooners points in that game.

People like to bring down Bradford and "hate" him and I have no idea why. He has amazing accuracy, good arm strength, extremely intelligent, good character, great awareness, good pocket presence. He has all the makings to me of a true franchise QB, and thus a great QB prospect.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Generally speaking Oklahoma ran a lot of screens to counter the blitz and I'll try not to include them, though they provide good examples of Bradford stepping into contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwstGmNajh0

- See 0:14
- 1:30
- 1:44
- 1:58
- 2:05
- 3:22 is particularly impressive
- 5:08 with Suh in his face
- 6:47 things start to breakdown, there's some pressure, good play
- 7:02
- 9:11 is vs. the Gators, he stays clam under a little heat makes a great throw

That's just one video. You have to give his OL some credit, they were great. Still, I've analyzed prospects that get happy feet under pressure (Troy Smith & Brady Quinn) but Bradford does a great job standing tall in the pocket, baiting blitzers into screens, and is not afraid to step into a hit to make a throw.


I watched about half of the video (at work, will watch more later).

I will say that you're right, Bradford is good at hanging tough in the pocket when pressure is coming. He shows good courage there.

What I still want to see (didn't see many examples of this so far, but like I said I'll watch more later) is more movement inside of the pocket. Hanging tough in the pocket good if you know exactly how much time you have. OU's offense stresses alot quick hitting timing routes.

Now, on a more NFL style throw, lets say an 18 yard out, he can't absorb the contact like he did on some of the quick hitting plays. On some of the throws you highlighted, he is unwilling to come off of his sweet spot. I want to see more of him moving in the pocket, shuffling his feet, stepping up, and generally creating more time to throw on NFL style routes. But I do give him credit for being able to complete passes with the blitz coming.

I'll expand on this when I watch more later.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 12:44 PM
I watched about half of the video (at work, will watch more later).

I will say that you're right, Bradford is good at hanging tough in the pocket when pressure is coming. He shows good courage there.

What I still want to see (didn't see many examples of this so far, but like I said I'll watch more later) is more movement inside of the pocket. Hanging tough in the pocket good if you know exactly how much time you have. OU's offense stresses alot quick hitting timing routes.

Now, on a more NFL style throw, lets say an 18 yard out, he can't absorb the contact like he did on some of the quick hitting plays. On some of the throws you highlighted, he is unwilling to come off of his sweet spot. I want to see more of him moving in the pocket, shuffling his feet, stepping up, and generally creating more time to throw on NFL style routes. But I do give him credit for being able to complete passes with the blitz coming.

I'll expand on this when I watch more later.

He makes a couple of those NFL throws later, I was waiting for something like that as well as I watched the video. He is remarkably calm & confident in the pocket and just has a great sense of what his line can do and where he needs to put the ball. he didn't have to move inside the pocket all too often, but he was pushed out of his comfort zone and up into the pocket on some of those later plays you still need to watch.

I'll say this, re-visiting film on Bradford is a good idea for anyone. Before I put a lot of work into a #1 Overall Pick thread a few weeks ago I hadn't seen Bradford play since the injury and thought Jimmy Clausen may be destined for the #1 Quarterback spot in this draft. Once you go back and really pick apart their games you wonder what Sam will do in a different environment (dropping back behind an average line) but on film the guy does just about everything exactly the way you'd like to see him do. When under center he looks good, his feet look fluid and he shows ability rolling out, keeping his eyes downfield, and throwing crisp spirals on the move. He's a big riser in my latest rankings and I think there would have to be a major shakeup for him not to be a Ram on draft day (I'd expect at 1st Overall.)

bitonti
03-04-2010, 12:48 PM
It should also be noted if Suh doesn't go 1 he goes 2. That's a sign of a solid prospect. meanwhile if Bradford doesn't go 1 he goes 4, 6, 9... maybe later than that. His value is all over the place in other words.

suh's knee problem was in 2005 and he proved he was better. he had 12 sacks this year, as many as mccoy in his whole career... twice as many as JPP's career. sam bradford can't prove he's better without actual football.

people bring up brady and brees, neither was a first rounder and both happened as pros. Brees could barely get signed after his injury. Brady looked like garbage in the Pats last games. End of the day it's not a good thing. Hurt QB is not a good thing.

What if Bradford gets hurt again? he's already had a major surgery. If he gets any sort of injury he wont have the clean slate that Brees or Brady had... he will be labelled injury prone at that point.

What Im saying is I dont know what happens... but NO a QB coming off a major throwing surgery, without any actual football games to prove he is better doesn't deserve to go #1 overall in the NFL draft.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 12:51 PM
I hadn't seen Bradford play since the injury

no one has and no one will.. if this happened when Bradford was a junior and he had a whole senior season under his belt that would be reassuring.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 01:05 PM
no one has and no one will.. if this happened when Bradford was a junior and he had a whole senior season under his belt that would be reassuring.

I was referring to watching his film, which you must have neglected. If he looks like a franchise passer on film, in interviews, in workouts, etc. then I don't see how an injury that will be fully healed before he ever dons an NFL uniform makes it so he can't be a franchise passer. Also, I (and I would imagine 75% of NFL Gms) would consider a franchise QB more important than an All-Pro DT. It doesn't matter if you are sold on the shoulder, if St. Louis is (which they will be) then they will draft him to be the team's future.

Also, people assume so much about Ndamukong Suh's draft stock. He had a freakish year, he's a great prospect but he's arguably the 2nd rated player at his position by many NFL teams. Don't be shocked if Detroit looks at McCoy with Suh on the board, dropping the Cornhusker right to Tampa at 3 (a perfect scenario there).

Strange how Bradford dominates the Big XII (and the nation) for two years, then Suh does it for one and is considered the best thing since sliced bread. They met eachother twice and there could be no argument in who was the best player on the field.

swngtrdr
03-04-2010, 01:05 PM
The problem is most fans perception of Bradford is different than NFL scouts and GM's. Daniel Jeremiah told Mlive.com 2 weeks before the combine that he knew of no NFL scouts that had Clausen rated above Bradford and that Bradford had the best accuracy of any QB to come out of college in at least 5 years. Yahoo sent a reporter to the combine and he wrote an article stating he interviewed 16 NFL GM's and not one had Clausen over Bradford. Gil Brandt was interviewed at the combine and asked to compare Bradford to Clausen. He replied " My thoughts are that it's not even close. Its like trying to compare Secretariat to the rest of the field." Brandt said Bradford reminds him of another former No. 1 pick who came out of college with knocks like arm strength and mobility. It was Peyton Manning. "When I see him today versus Manning in 1998," Brandt said, "he looks like a better prospect." As fans the hardest thing to accept is that our opinion doesn't mean squat.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 01:09 PM
It should also be noted if Suh doesn't go 1 he goes 2. That's a sign of a solid prospect. meanwhile if Bradford doesn't go 1 he goes 4, 6, 9... maybe later than that. His value is all over the place in other words.

How does that mean his value is all over the place? It just means the teams sitting at 2, 3 and 5 have long term, big money guys at the position. Stafford, Freeman, Cassel. I'd be willing to bet 6 & 7 would be back to back QBs if both Bradford and Clausen fell there, though we're not likely to ever find out if that assertion is correct.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 01:10 PM
The problem is most fans perception of Bradford is different than NFL scouts and GM's. Daniel Jeremiah told Mlive.com 2 weeks before the combine that he knew of no NFL scouts that had Clausen rated above Bradford and that Bradford had the best accuracy of any QB to come out of college in at least 5 years. Yahoo sent a reporter to the combine and he wrote an article stating he interviewed 16 NFL GM's and not one had Clausen over Bradford. Gil Brandt was interviewed at the combine and asked to compare Bradford to Clausen. He replied " My thoughts are that it's not even close. Its like trying to compare Secretariat to the rest of the field." Brandt said Bradford reminds him of another former No. 1 pick who came out of college with knocks like arm strength and mobility. It was Peyton Manning. "When I see him today versus Manning in 1998," Brandt said, "he looks like a better prospect." As fans the hardest thing to accept is that our opinion doesn't mean squat.

Since people here assume their opinions matter, they often breakdown the draft as such. Because they like Clausen more they'll say he gets drafted 1st, because they like Suh more they'll say there's no way Gerald McCoy is picked over him. This was a good post on your part.

I also have compared Bradford to Manning coming out of college. His film is every bit, if not more impressive than Peyton's at that point in his career but all people here see is the injury and a the title of spread offense though few could tell you the condition of his shoulder now or details on that offense. He's going to be HIGHLY coveted on draft day and could be the top overall player on many boards.

steelernation77
03-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Do you happen to recall his last college season and the early process a year ago which had him and Stafford listed as 1A and 1B? Never before has a quarterback been so disrespected. Bradford may not have the hype machine going for him coming off an injured campaign a year ago, but many forget that in just two years as a starter he threw 86 Td's and only 16 Int's. Please, wrap your head against that.

Now wait ten seconds for you programmed excuses to come in....

Stats inflated due to a spread offense? Eh, not by much and what kind of spread are they running down at OU... In 2007 (36:8) he threw only 28.4 passes per game, In 2008 (50:8) he threw 34.5 per game. To let you know, there were only 6 NFL teams that didn't throw the ball at least 30 times a game. His YPA was very high (9.77 in 08') and ranks at the top among recent franchise QB prospects. Many say that you could plug anyone in that offense to succeed. Luckily we have a concrete example in fairly talented backup Landry Jones, who was able to manage 26 Td's 14 Int and 8 wins for the Sooners this year in a slightly simplified version of what Sam was running and with 39.8 attempts per start, Jones threw the ball more than Bradford ever did, but lacked Sam's confidence, pocket presence, and well, ability to throw.

He can make every throw, he is a winner, looks great from a physical standpoint (6'4 1/4 236), is an athletic guy, and possesses the intangibles & throwing mechanics to be a top prospect. If St. Louis would have taken him 2nd Overall a year ago, why wouldn't they take him 1st this year?

Those who are saying it will be Clausen if they take a QB should take a step back and get their heads checked. There's no way you're going to compare the success each had in college, physically it's an easy choice, and Bradford's personality really is the final X-Factor as he seems a bit further along maturity wise. There are a few (myself & TACKLE) who appreciate Bradford here for what he has done on the field and it's amazing how many try to use this shoulder injury to invalidate everything he's done. He's been on a throwing schedule, he's up to 100-120 balls a day and his shoulder should be in good shape for his Pro Day and back back to 100% by the time he has to play full contact.

I agree that McCoy and Suh are two better prospects. In the Rams situation I opt for Bradford though, as you just can't compete consistently in this league without a Quarterback and this has been a long time coming. Last year we heard to put off Sanchez and grab Bradford in 2010, so why are some suggesting they wait until 2011 for Locker/Mallett? The Rams would be wise not to act like me with my school work and not put this need off.

I think the most obvious reason people have reservations about Bradford is because he missed almost the whole season. When was the last time a guy was chosen #1 overall after missing the entire season before?

bitonti
03-04-2010, 01:20 PM
I think the most obvious reason people have reservations about Bradford is because he missed almost the whole season. When was the last time a guy was chosen #1 overall after missing the entire season before?

thank you.

to answer your question it has never happened before, in the history of the NFL draft.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/alltimeno1

there has never been a player who suffered a season ending injury and went #1 in that same year. more specifically a quarterback who needed shoulder surgery on his throwing arm never went #1. this would be the first time, ever.

I like bradford. But I question how he can go that high after that injury and missing so much time.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2010, 01:21 PM
. . . all people here see is the injury and a the title of spread offense though few could tell you the condition of his shoulder now or details on that offense. He's going to be HIGHLY coveted on draft day and could be the top overall player on many boards.

This is really the overlooked point, I think. The fact that it's difficult to assess how well he may translate to the NFL game b/c of the spread offense seems to be an easy crutch for those who say he's not a good value at #1. The kid is a top talent at the most important position on the field. I think people find it easier to see a DT translate so that makes it easier to see the #1 overall value.

Once the injury is cleared (which has already been determined by the team doctors) and Bradford makes all the throws at his pro day we will likely see and end to the "shoulder injury" excuse and it will just move solely to the "ZOMG Spread Offenzzzzzz" argument.

jth1331
03-04-2010, 01:24 PM
It should also be noted if Suh doesn't go 1 he goes 2. That's a sign of a solid prospect. meanwhile if Bradford doesn't go 1 he goes 4, 6, 9... maybe later than that. His value is all over the place in other words.

His value is different because there are some teams that don't need a franchise QB.
1. St. Louis - no franchise QB
2. Detroit - Just took Stafford
3. Tampa - Just took Freeman
4. Washington - possible QB with Campbell, although may look to draft one
5. KC - just signed Cassell
6. Seattle - no franchise QB
7. Cleveland - heck, they just took Quinn a few years ago, they giving up on him?
8. Oakland - Have Russell who they hope will progress
9. Buffalo - no franchise QB
10. Jacksonville - Is Garrard one? Possibly
11. Denver - no franchise QB
12. Miami - Henne? Maybe

and so on and so forth.
The value of trading up these days to the #1 spot is incredibly overpriced now a days and teams don't want to do it, as financial reasons also come into play.

What Im saying is I dont know what happens... but NO a QB coming off a major throwing surgery, without any actual football games to prove he is better doesn't deserve to go #1 overall in the NFL draft.

If he shows the shoulder isn't an issue at the Pro Day, why not? FFS, it wasn't a career ending or overly severe injury in the first place. He came back way too soon to try to help his team win and it backfired, so he shut it down.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 01:28 PM
I think the most obvious reason people have reservations about Bradford is because he missed almost the whole season. When was the last time a guy was chosen #1 overall after missing the entire season before?

When's the last time a college quarterback finished his two year career with an 88 to 16 Td:Int ratio holding a 24-5 record as a starter against some of the nation's top competition. Basically what I'm saying is, when's the last time someone was deserving?

bitonti, in your opinion Bradford isn't worth a Top 3-5 pick (if he was to you, he'd be a slam dunk at #1 because of the value of a franchise passer). You should know that NFL evaluators hold a much different opinion. I'm ok with anyone that doesn't like the guy as a prospect, but even those people have to acknowledge that they're talking about the odds-on favorite for the #1 pick. The Rams are going to see what they have to, but no one's saying you can't make judgements from there....

jth1331
03-04-2010, 01:29 PM
Since people here assume their opinions matter, they often breakdown the draft as such. Because they like Clausen more they'll say he gets drafted 1st, because they like Suh more they'll say there's no way Gerald McCoy is picked over him. This was a good post on your part.

I also have compared Bradford to Manning coming out of college. His film is every bit, if not more impressive than Peyton's at that point in his career but all people here see is the injury and a the title of spread offense though few could tell you the condition of his shoulder now or details on that offense. He's going to be HIGHLY coveted on draft day and could be the top overall player on many boards.

I too have compared Bradford to Manning, as both are extremely accurate, incredibly smart, and show great footwork.

I think the most obvious reason people have reservations about Bradford is because he missed almost the whole season. When was the last time a guy was chosen #1 overall after missing the entire season before?

Did you miss last year before he decided to stay? People were arguing against him last year because of the spread offense he played in, which was ridiculous. I went to OU and saw all their games, that offense was not gimmicky and required Sam to make reads after the snap and he made some perfect passes.

I swear, once his Pro Day passes and he wows everyone, people will come back to the spread offense excuse.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 01:33 PM
bitonti, in your opinion Bradford isn't worth a Top 3-5 pick (if he was to you, he'd be a slam dunk at #1 because of the value of a franchise passer).

i never said that... the difference between #1 money for a QB and #5 money is 20 million or so... it's huge money.

full disclosure I follow the Jets and watched Chad Pennington for a while, If I had a pick, Sam Bradford wouldn't be on my board at all. Throwing shoulders are not to be screwed around with. they are not like ACL repairs. They are delicate joints and just 1 injury can bone a player forever. James Andrews said Chad was fine... fixed him again... he got hurt again... and on and on... The doctors cannot be trusted to tell the future. Bradford got hurt once he could very easily get hurt again. in fact who knows what damage he did trying to rush back? Drew Brees is the exception not the rule.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 01:33 PM
I too have compared Bradford to Manning, as both are extremely accurate, incredibly smart, and show great footwork.


Pocket presence and confidence are two more areas he really resembles Manning on the field. Those two are so cool in the pocket.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 01:37 PM
i never said that... the difference between #1 money for a QB and #5 money is 20 million or so... it's huge money.

full disclosure I follow the Jets and watched Chad Pennington for a while, If I had a pick, Sam Bradford wouldn't be on my board at all. Throwing shoulders are not to be screwed around with. they are not like ACL repairs. They are delicate joints and just 1 injury can bone a player forever. Drew Brees is the exception not the rule.

You never said that, right. Still, you implied Bradford's a reach at #1. Well, a Top 5 value at QB is worth the #1 pick when the alternatives leave the Rams with a gaping hole in their passing game. Why spend money and invest high draft picks on the OL if you're not going to make an equal investment at Quarterback? They put off Sanchez in 2009 specifically for Bradford in 2010 who likely would have be the #1 or #2 Overall last year.

ACL's are definitely as serious (or more) as Shoulder concerns for any position. Rebuilding knee ligaments takes a special amount of confidence & courage on the field to overcome.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 01:40 PM
find me a case where a guy missed most of his senior year of of football due to injury and still went #1 overall in the NFL Draft and I'll admit Bradford should do the same. it's an awful lot of faith.

EvilNixon
03-04-2010, 01:44 PM
Stats inflated due to a spread offense? Eh, not by much and what kind of spread are they running down at OU... In 2007 (36:8) he threw only 28.4 passes per game, In 2008 (50:8) he threw 34.5 per game. To let you know, there were only 6 NFL teams that didn't throw the ball at least 30 times a game. His YPA was very high (9.77 in 08') and ranks at the top among recent franchise QB prospects. Many say that you could plug anyone in that offense to succeed. Luckily we have a concrete example in fairly talented backup Landry Jones, who was able to manage 26 Td's 14 Int and 8 wins for the Sooners this year in a slightly simplified version of what Sam was running and with 39.8 attempts per start, Jones threw the ball more than Bradford ever did, but lacked Sam's confidence, pocket presence, and well, ability to throw.

When has number of throws determined spread offenses? Using Landry Jones as a comparison is laughable. I'd like to see what Landry would do in his 4th year in that system(or even 3rd year when he had one of the best offensive lines in recent memory and stacked offensive weapons.)
He can make every throw, he is a winner, looks great from a physical standpoint (6'4 1/4 236), is an athletic guy, and possesses the intangibles & throwing mechanics to be a top prospect. If St. Louis would have taken him 2nd Overall a year ago, why wouldn't they take him 1st this year?

His velocity is very unimpressive on deep throws or in general, especially when it's a tight throw.
Those who are saying it will be Clausen if they take a QB should take a step back and get their heads checked. There's no way you're going to compare the success each had in college, physically it's an easy choice, and Bradford's personality really is the final X-Factor as he seems a bit further along maturity wise. There are a few (myself & TACKLE) who appreciate Bradford here for what he has done on the field and it's amazing how many try to use this shoulder injury to invalidate everything he's done. He's been on a throwing schedule, he's up to 100-120 balls a day and his shoulder should be in good shape for his Pro Day and back back to 100% by the time he has to play full contact.

What has he done? Played primarily out of shotgun in a spread offense. Show he's terrible in the face of pressure. He has an average arm and simplified decision making. What is really impressive about him?

RealityCheck
03-04-2010, 01:47 PM
simple question

how does a QB who missed more than half the season with surgery to his throwing shoulder go number one overall?

over a defensive lineman with reggie white or mean joe greene potential?

Quarterbacking is overrated. That's all.

If the NFL Draft treated QBs like they should, Stafford, Sanchez, Clausen and Freeman would all be 2nd round picks, JaMarcus a 3rd round pick, and so on.

Some exceptions are elite franchise QBs like Palmer, Manning's and Ryan.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:03 PM
When has number of throws determined spread offenses? Using Landry Jones as a comparison is laughable. I'd like to see what Landry would do in his 4th year in that system(or even 3rd year when he had one of the best offensive lines in recent memory and stacked offensive weapons.)


His velocity is very unimpressive on deep throws or in general, especially when it's a tight throw.


What has he done? Played primarily out of shotgun in a spread offense. Show he's terrible in the face of pressure. He has an average arm and simplified decision making. What is really impressive about him?

Needless to say, I'm not impressed by your talent evaluation ability. His velocity isn't a problem at all, though he must improve his deep ball (40+ throws) because he wasn't asked to do throw that much in college. He has shown the ability to squeeze passes into tight spot and consistently showed that velocity down the field that you say he lacks.

Many say anyone could play in that scheme and we're lucky enough to have an example in Jones, who has the ability to be a draftable prospect. Jones was left with the best player on the 2010 line, their best receiver, and both running backs and could only manage 8 wins.

What is really impressive about him? 50 Td's and 8 Int while throwing 34.5 passes a game isn't. The fact that he threw 86 Td passes in his Freshman & Sophomore seasons isn't. The fact that his teammates and coaches love him isn't. A strong 6'4 1/4 236 frame with athleticism and the ability to throw on the move isn't.

But I'm sure on draft day you'll be proven right when Bradford isn't drafted in the Top 10 or 1st Overall.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Quarterbacking is overrated. That's all.

If the NFL Draft treated QBs like they should, Stafford, Sanchez, Clausen and Freeman would all be 2nd round picks, JaMarcus a 3rd round pick, and so on.

Some exceptions are elite franchise QBs like Palmer, Manning's and Ryan.

Do you really think Matt Ryan was a more highly coveted NFL prospect than Matthew Stafford or is this based on your own personal evaluation? A full round higher?

Of all people you'd think a New England fan would know the importance of the QB position.

Playoff teams...

Saints - Drew Brees
Eagles - Donovan McNabb
Cowboys - Tony Romo
Vikings - Brett Favre
Packers - Aaron Rodgers
Cardinals - Kurt Warner

Patriots - Tom Brady
Colts - Peyton Manning
Chargers - Phillip Rivers
Jets - Mark Sanchez
Bengals - Carson Palmer
Ravens - Joe Flacco

.... It would appear (in 11 out of 12 cases) that a good Quarterback is the top common factor among playoff teams. 7 of the 12 had to use First Round picks on the position.

Saints-Tigers
03-04-2010, 02:11 PM
I think his arm is mediocre at best, and I'm not impressed by his reads to be honest.

I wasn't really worried about his frame, even at 220 he looked like he could add weight easily.

Like I've said before, he's not a high upside guy, he looks like his max potential is merely pretty good, and he has a ton of concerns to overcome. Too much risk, not enough upside for me to want him top 10.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:13 PM
find me a case where a guy missed most of his senior year of of football due to injury and still went #1 overall in the NFL Draft and I'll admit Bradford should do the same. it's an awful lot of faith.

Well, Bradford could have come back and played healthy in his Senior year. He dominated as a Freshman and Sophomore for those of you who seem to have forgotten. It's a lot of faith, but I think you are SEVERELY overplaying his shoulder concerns and intentionally comparing him to Chad Pennington (the most notoriously injury prone QB in recent years) instead of guys that have bounced back from similar injuries (Drew Brees) and more serious injuries (Palmer/Brady).

Also I find it humorous that you neg rep me for having to school you on why Bradford is viewed so highly by NFL evaluators. On draft day you'll disagree with it, but I'll have told you why it'll happen for 2+ months so you'll at least know the logic and reasoning.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:16 PM
I think his arm is mediocre at best, and I'm not impressed by his reads to be honest.

I wasn't really worried about his frame, even at 220 he looked like he could add weight easily.

Like I've said before, he's not a high upside guy, he looks like his max potential is merely pretty good, and he has a ton of concerns to overcome. Too much risk, not enough upside for me to want him top 10.

I think Bradford knew there were concerns about his bulk, so he decided to get up to 236 for the Combine. He looked good. I expect him to play between 228-235 in the NFL. He has the upside to warrant the #1 pick and you'll see evidence of that when he's drafted with the #1 pick. No chance of him outside the Top 10 unless his arm literally falls off at his Pro Day.

EvilNixon
03-04-2010, 02:22 PM
Needless to say, I'm not impressed by your talent evaluation ability. His velocity isn't a problem at all, though he must improve his deep ball (40+ throws) because he wasn't asked to do throw that much in college. He has shown the ability to squeeze passes into tight spot and consistently showed that velocity down the field that you say he lacks.

I watched at least 7 games from Oklahoma the season before last, and not once did he impress me with any type of arm strength. I really could care less if you could throw the ball 80 yards. It's how fast you can stick it into the 10 yard in in between the CB and the LB. Can you throw the skinny in that 5 yard window between the CB and the S. I've never seen him do that. He's got an average arm with average velocity.

Many say anyone could play in that scheme and we're lucky enough to have an example in Jones, who has the ability to be a draftable prospect. Jones was left with the best player on the 2010 line, their best receiver, and both running backs and could only manage 8 wins.

But he didn't have the same line. Sam Bradford was barely touched at all that season, but last year? Against BYU he couldn't handle the pressure BEFORE the injury. He's not ready to be pressured.

What is really impressive about him? 50 Td's and 8 Int while throwing 34.5 passes a game isn't. The fact that he threw 86 Td passes in his Freshman & Sophomore seasons isn't. The fact that his teammates and coaches love him isn't. A strong 6'4 1/4 236 frame with athleticism and the ability to throw on the move isn't.


Why are stats important? I don't care how many passes you throw if you aren't making any difficult reads or throws. There's a lot of screens and clear outs for the RBs underneath. Not impressive at all.
But I'm sure on draft day you'll be proven right when Bradford isn't drafted in the Top 10 or 1st Overall.
How is that relevant?

bitonti
03-04-2010, 02:28 PM
Also I find it humorous that you neg rep me for having to school you g.

believe or not that was mistake. some other dude neg repped me in this thread... and i thought it was you.

i still dont see how carson palmer's knee injury makes people feel good about sam bradford's shoulder injury. If Carson Palmer suffered Sam Bradford's shoulder injury and missed his whole senior year would he have gone #1 overall? doubtful.

yes guys can come back from injury and be great. I just dont want to use #1 overall picks on them when they haven't played football in months. a scripted pro day is not the same as a football game. is he gonna get hit at his pro day?

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:28 PM
Not impressive at all.

How is that relevant?

This thread reads "bradford at 1?" I'm informing people why that's the likely situation. You say he's not impressive, I'm willing to bet the St. Louis Rams feel a bit differently. You say he's not impressive at all, your statements are opinionated and ignorant of countless NFL evaluators.

You can go on thinking he's mediocre, maybe he deserves to go in the 3rd, hell maybe he doesn't deserve to be drafted! No matter what YOUR opinion, Sam Bradford will be selected in the Top 4 and very likely 1st Overall... Talking about the topic at hand is relevant, personal evaluations without a mention of the draft or St. Louis is irrelevant.

ThePudge
03-04-2010, 02:34 PM
believe or not that was mistake. some other dude neg repped me in this thread... and i thought it was you.

i still dont see how carson palmer's knee injury makes people feel good about sam bradford's shoulder injury. If Carson Palmer suffered Sam Bradford's shoulder injury and missed his whole senior year would he have gone #1 overall? doubtful.

yes guys can come back from injury and be great. I just dont want to use #1 overall picks on them when they haven't played football in months. a scripted pro day is not the same as a football game. is he gonna get hit at his pro day?

No harm no foul on the rep thing, I didn't neg rep you because you've stayed relevant to the topic and put forth a fine opinion (questioning whether you can take an injured player with little-no film from last year 1st Overall). Is he going to get hit until August? No. His shoulder has had ample time to heal and I think the more time without contact the better for Bradford. He'll be stressing it plenty and is already throwing over 100 balls a day, saying the shoulder is at 85% and holding up great in his sessions. Give him a few months and I think he's fully healed and deserving of the first pick.

jth1331
03-04-2010, 02:44 PM
I watched at least 7 games from Oklahoma the season before last, and not once did he impress me with any type of arm strength. I really could care less if you could throw the ball 80 yards. It's how fast you can stick it into the 10 yard in in between the CB and the LB. Can you throw the skinny in that 5 yard window between the CB and the S. I've never seen him do that. He's got an average arm with average velocity.

And what arm strength does Tom Brady have? Goodness people, not every QB needs to have a cannon like Cutler or Favre.


But he didn't have the same line. Sam Bradford was barely touched at all that season, but last year? Against BYU he couldn't handle the pressure BEFORE the injury. He's not ready to be pressured.

What do you mean couldn't handle pressure? I guess people think he just did horrible that game. The blocking in that game was far worse than what he will have in the NFL to be honest. Guys were coming free left and right at Sam because nobody on the OL could block. He still performed well under the circumstances, not his fault Murray and Broyles fumbled inside the 30 or that a blitzing LB was set free by his pathetic OL and made him roll out and make a decent throw on the run that was incomplete unfortunately. It wasn't a great throw, but it was a catchable pass.



Why are stats important? I don't care how many passes you throw if you aren't making any difficult reads or throws. There's a lot of screens and clear outs for the RBs underneath. Not impressive at all.

How is that relevant?

You are stuck in your fantasy world where OU's offense was gimmicky with no difficulty whatsover. Bradford made great throws and good decisions, letting his teammates make plays.

DoWnThEfiElD
03-04-2010, 02:51 PM
Basically it boils down to how St. Louis evaluates him. If they think he is a franchise QB and don't draft him then it is the wrong move. If they don't think he is the guy then by all means take a DT. I just have to wonder how many more QBs they are willing to pass on.

TACKLE
03-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Another element to consider is the fact that he orchestrated a hurry-up style of offense, something VERY few college QB's have the knowledge, leadership and understanding of the game to do. QB's in college football have very little freedom to make their own adjustments at the line. Now very often, we see the whole offense look over to the sideline if the coach wants to make an audible (we see this a lot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AFDSM-BsgU). Bradford ran that Oklahoma offense. Not to say he called all of his own plays but he was in control of that offense and could call audibles and make adjustments on the fly. Oklahoma probably has one the highest paid coaching staffs in college football but they were willing to give the reigns to a RS Sophomore to command with the offense. The result: Oklahoma was the most successful offense in college football history. I know they didn't run exclusively no huddle but the control he was given in that offense is something that other top QB's would not be trusted with but Bradford thrived in it. They tried running it with Landry Jones and they realized a few games in that they just couldn't go with nearly the same tempo that they did with Bradford. I guess you could interrupt this as a "system" question but I think it is much more valuable that he can take command of an offense and has the intelligence to trusted with making the right adjustments and pre-snap reads.

I will say this again, I have yet to see something that Bradford does on the field, that causes concern or leads me to believe he won't be a very successful NFL QB.

Complex
03-04-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't get how people like Jimmy better than Sam Bradford, What has Jimmy Clausen done? Jimmy had Michael Floyd and Golden Tate and his biggest win is against mighty Hawaii lmao. Jimmy had 1 good season against mostly garbage teams with terrible defenses.

yes im sorry that is crazy.

NO Surgery > Surgery.


no matter what James Andrews says... this still happened

http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2009/09/05/1252206628_5469/539w.jpg

I'm going out on a limb in trust Dr.Andrews instead of your medical analysis

EvilNixon
03-04-2010, 03:44 PM
This thread reads "bradford at 1?" I'm informing people why that's the likely situation. You say he's not impressive, I'm willing to bet the St. Louis Rams feel a bit differently. You say he's not impressive at all, your statements are opinionated and ignorant of countless NFL evaluators.

You can go on thinking he's mediocre, maybe he deserves to go in the 3rd, hell maybe he doesn't deserve to be drafted! No matter what YOUR opinion, Sam Bradford will be selected in the Top 4 and very likely 1st Overall... Talking about the topic at hand is relevant, personal evaluations without a mention of the draft or St. Louis is irrelevant.

My opinion should be dependent on what others believe?

EvilNixon
03-04-2010, 03:50 PM
And what arm strength does Tom Brady have? Goodness people, not every QB needs to have a cannon like Cutler or Favre.

Your point would be valid if Brady had a noodle like Sam Bradford. That isn't the case, and as I've said, it doesn't matter if you can throw it 80, but I have yet to see him display it.



What do you mean couldn't handle pressure? I guess people think he just did horrible that game. The blocking in that game was far worse than what he will have in the NFL to be honest. Guys were coming free left and right at Sam because nobody on the OL could block. He still performed well under the circumstances, not his fault Murray and Broyles fumbled inside the 30 or that a blitzing LB was set free by his pathetic OL and made him roll out and make a decent throw on the run that was incomplete unfortunately. It wasn't a great throw, but it was a catchable pass.


He still wasn't impressive under pressure. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to be effective under pressure. He folded in that game before the injury, and quite frankly, looked scared.



You are stuck in your fantasy world where OU's offense was gimmicky with no difficulty whatsover. Bradford made great throws and good decisions, letting his teammates make plays.

lol. No offense is easy, but he wasn't taking and making difficult throws on a daily basis. He was throwing screens and underneath routes, and mixing in some intermediate stuff. If I have to reiterate it, I don't care about deep throws. I care about velocity. He doesn't display above average velocity, from what I've witnessed.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 04:07 PM
I'm going out on a limb in trust Dr.Andrews instead of your medical analysis

James Andrews did the surgeries for Chad Pennington too. The man can fix a shoulder, no question. But he can't guarantee it stays fixed.

no bare feet
03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
This is one of those subjects where I know what I would do if I am the Rams but I also understand the logistics, as flawed as the may be for chosing Bradford. If I am the Rams I do not draft Bradford or Clausen. I have been on record numerous times saying this Qb class sucks.

I am not a fan of this draft class at all for QBs. Each Qb has soooo many question marks and issues. No thank you. I would rather take Jevan Sneed(WHO SHOULD NOT DECLARE) in the 2nd and make him sit 2 years then investing 30-40 million guaranteed on Jimmy Clausen/Sam Bradford/Jake Locker and have him start sometime during the first year.

This class makes me utterly sick.

I was mistaken about the 2nd for Sneed, it should be 4th! :D

Halsey
03-04-2010, 04:53 PM
I don't get how people like Jimmy better than Sam Bradford, What has Jimmy Clausen done? Jimmy had Michael Floyd and Golden Tate and his biggest win is against mighty Hawaii lmao. Jimmy had 1 good season against mostly garbage teams with terrible defenses.


If you're going to knock a QB for having quality players around him, then you're never going to take a QB from a powerhouse program. Lots of QBs in the NFL played with talented pass catchers, blockers and runners in college.

Clausen played 3 years at Notre Dame and steadily improved over those years. He threw over 50 TDs over the last 2 years and reduced his INTs to only 4 this past season. If you are blaming him for Notre Dame's mediocre play you weren't paying attention. He played well even in Notre Dame's losses, for the most part.

Halsey
03-04-2010, 04:56 PM
James Andrews did the surgeries for Chad Pennington too. The man can fix a shoulder, no question. But he can't guarantee it stays fixed.

No football player in guaranteed to not be injured. Can you guarantee that Suh won't get hurt again? If you did a statistical breakdown on QBs and DTs, I bet DTs miss more time due to injury, on average.

brasho
03-04-2010, 05:02 PM
There was talk of Bradford being #1 last season if he came out. A season goes by, he gets hurt, plays hurt with nothing to gain and everything to lose, gets hurt again, gets surgery, bulks up and fills out while rehabbing shoulder, I see no reason why it is a ridiculous notion.

How many opportunities do you think the Rams will have to draft a franchise QB in the near future? Okay, probably next year, but I'm, sure the Rams are optimistic they won't.

Here's the thing. Sam Bradford as a sophomore was deadly accurate. He's extremely cerebral, athletic enough, has good size, a good enough arm, and considering he laid it all on the line with little to gain and everything to lose (OU had already lost a game, so playing against Texas could really only hurt him, but he played anyways) so he's tough. Physically and mentally, he's in Rivers and Peyton's class.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 05:25 PM
There was talk of Bradford being #1 last season if he came out. A season goes by, he gets hurt, plays hurt with nothing to gain and everything to lose, gets hurt again, gets surgery, bulks up and fills out while rehabbing shoulder, I see no reason why it is a ridiculous notion.

How many opportunities do you think the Rams will have to draft a franchise QB in the near future? Okay, probably next year, but I'm, sure the Rams are optimistic they won't.

Here's the thing. Sam Bradford as a sophomore was deadly accurate. He's extremely cerebral, athletic enough, has good size, a good enough arm, and considering he laid it all on the line with little to gain and everything to lose (OU had already lost a game, so playing against Texas could really only hurt him, but he played anyways) so he's tough. Physically and mentally, he's in Rivers and Peyton's class.

I actually think Rivers (minus the funky delivery) is a perfect comparison for him.

People forget that Rivers was a zomgz spreadz offenze QB too.

Geason Noceur
03-04-2010, 05:26 PM
I think he's a reach at No. 1. I was never impressed with him even during his freshman and sophomore years. I would cringe every time I would see him turn to the sidelines to change a measly play. I've always thought he was in an extremely easy situation while OU. He was rarely under pressure, and when he was he didn't exactly step up to the situation. He usually got hurt.

He is never again going to have the same time to throw that he had at OU. If he goes to the Rams, he's going to be in the complete opposite situation that he was in college. Crappy team and injury prone QB that's used to having all day to throw sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If the Rams take him and throw the bank at him, they're going to expect him to start early on, and I don't think he's the type of QB that's ready for that.

bitonti
03-04-2010, 06:09 PM
This isn't the Jets or Falcons adding a QB and having players all around to help him... or a great defense to support him. The Rams are brutal on defense and offense. they have basically Stephen Jackson and no one else.

There's a very real scenario where the Rams pick Bradford, still stink, and everyone get's fired.

people say a defensive tackle can't save a franchise, or turn it around all by himself... and i tend to agree... most defensive tackles can't... Suh is not like most defensive tackles.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 06:23 PM
This isn't the Jets or Falcons adding a QB and having players all around to help him... or a great defense to support him. The Rams are brutal on defense and offense. they have basically Stephen Jackson and no one else.

There's a very real scenario where the Rams pick Bradford, still stink, and everyone get's fired.

people say a defensive tackle can't save a franchise, or turn it around all by himself... and i tend to agree... most defensive tackles can't... Suh is not like most defensive tackles.

The Falcons had players all around to help? They had Roddy White and that's it. Michael Turner was still an unknown commodity at that point. They didn't have **** other than that.

Steven Jackson will take a huge load off of Bradford. And there's no rules saying that the Rams can't choose to draft other offensive players later in the draft.

gutman54
03-04-2010, 06:28 PM
So...if you want someone to fit into their WCO, why not take Clausen? He's been brought up in one, doesn't have the injury problems, and is comparable in physical attributes. He as a strong enough arm, can make all the reads, and played on a team that wasn't as good as Oklahomas, and still put up good enough numbers to warrant a pick as high as Bradford. I may not be right, and you can tear this apart as much as you want, but I'm just throwing something out there. I'm not a draft smarts guy, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Saints-Tigers
03-04-2010, 06:32 PM
I think the Rams will take a nice step forward this season in terms of offensive help. Jason smith will be a lot better, and guys like Jason Brown will be more acclimated.

Then a rookie QB will go in and play mediocrely, and get a ton of credit and be called the second coming.

LonghornsLegend
03-04-2010, 07:21 PM
This isn't the Jets or Falcons adding a QB and having players all around to help him... or a great defense to support him. The Rams are brutal on defense and offense. they have basically Stephen Jackson and no one else.

There's a very real scenario where the Rams pick Bradford, still stink, and everyone get's fired.

people say a defensive tackle can't save a franchise, or turn it around all by himself... and i tend to agree... most defensive tackles can't... Suh is not like most defensive tackles.


YFS already stated this but what "all around players" did ATL have to help Matt Ryan? I'd love to know this. That's purely the effect of what great QB play can do.


The Lions were brutal on offense and defense last year too, but they are much better off having took Stafford instead of an offensive lineman in all honesty. They would probably look at passing on a QB this year too for Suh, then next year have all their eggs in the Locker & Mallett basket so what happens when one guy gets hurt, or gets picked apart and all of a sudden isn't a great prospect, or they are out of range for both?


You'd be doing this year after year with the whole regime being fired by that point most likely. People need to stop being so scared to get a QB that bust, alot of it has to do with developing him, putting pieces in play around him, and actually giving him a chance. If your always worried about the next QB being a bust you'd never draft anyone.

toonsterwu
03-04-2010, 07:29 PM
Speaking in general terms, the value of taking QB at 1 is much higher than DT. Put it this way - there's almost 0 chance that a guy like Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy, if they go first, will ever be "worth it". You'd need the defensive tackle to dominate from the get go, and be consistently dominant for his entire career. That's hard to ask for from any DT, and I love both Suh and McCoy.

2, this is the one draft where you may want to wait to take a DT. There's enough good DT's early 2nd.

Do I love the idea of Bradford at 1st? No. Do I love Bradford? No. (as I've noted on IRC, I believe this draft to be ridiculously overhyped) But positional and team considerations, as much as folks want to say they shouldn't matter, do. The cost of a pick in the early 1st is going to be astronomical.

Speaking specifically on the Rams - drafting Bradford doesn't mean that he's starting next year. It simply means that you get your key piece in place. Bradford, as much as I am lukewarm on him, may be the best QB prospect in the next couple of seasons. The tools are solid, the arm is perhaps even a bit underrated. Drafting Bradford also buys them time. Typically, most GM/coach combinations have about 3-4 years to make some mark, but wiht a franchise QB, there's a higher probability that they get a freebie year, so to speak. They'll get to transition Jason Smith to LT, probably add another OL piece this year.

I'm not sure a decision has been made. Actually, I'm fairly certain a decision hasn't been made. Everything will rest on the medical reports.

As a side note, I mentioned this on IRC the other day, but I don't know why more people don't compare Bradford to Matt Ryan. I think both guys are fairly similar.

Halsey
03-04-2010, 07:29 PM
This isn't the Jets or Falcons adding a QB and having players all around to help him... or a great defense to support him. The Rams are brutal on defense and offense. they have basically Stephen Jackson and no one else.

There's a very real scenario where the Rams pick Bradford, still stink, and everyone get's fired.

people say a defensive tackle can't save a franchise, or turn it around all by himself... and i tend to agree... most defensive tackles can't... Suh is not like most defensive tackles.

The Rams have been adding players for years. They haven't been good since...they had quality play at the QB position. How long are they going to keep waiting to add a potential franchise QB? What stops them from selecting Bradford while also addressing other needs during the offseason?

toonsterwu
03-04-2010, 07:31 PM
Matt, the chances are higher that if they draft Bradford, the Rams leadership gets another year to see how Sam works out. Nothing is certain, so if they are astronomically bad, then everything's up in the air.

The X-factor in all this is the sale of the club.

Bengalsrocket
03-04-2010, 07:33 PM
The Rams have been adding players for years. They haven't been good since...they had quality play at the QB position. How long are they going to keep waiting to add a potential franchise QB? What stops them from selecting Bradford while also addressing other needs during the offseason?

I think this is a good point. I know the first pick is theoretically the most valuable of our entire draft, but you do have other picks. I don't see why the Rams can't get a quality (I know they won't be Suh / McCoy level) DT in the 2nd or 3rd round.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 08:29 PM
I actually think Rivers (minus the funky delivery) is a perfect comparison for him.

People forget that Rivers was a zomgz spreadz offenze QB too.


Rivers was a spread QB? I don't think so, Norm Chow installed thr offense there.

Geason Noceur
03-04-2010, 08:33 PM
I don't think there's much difference between Bradford, Clausen, and the rest of the other QBs in this draft. They're all average IMO. I don't see anything elite about any of them that makes them stand out from the pack. I think the Rams could get about the same value from one of the other QBs in a later rounds and save themselves a few millions.

brasho
03-04-2010, 09:20 PM
Rivers was a spread QB? I don't think so, Norm Chow installed thr offense there.

Sorry to say this, but Rivers led the NC St. version of the spread while in college. This was before Chow came to USC and just after he left spread-happy BYU. (not the spread option, but the spread passing version like Purdue had at the time, BYU, etc).

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 09:31 PM
Sorry to say this, but Rivers led the NC St. version of the spread while in college. This was before Chow came to USC and just after he left spread-happy BYU. (not the spread option, but the spread passing version like Purdue had at the time, BYU, etc).

Yup.

Come to think of it, Roethlisberger was a spread quarterback, too. He worked almost exclusively out of the gun at Miami.

I've said it time and time again: people have the cause and effect mixed up with spread quarterbacks. When a spread QB sucks in the NFL it's not because of the system he played in during college. It's because he always sucked, but the spread hid his deficiencies and his coaches didn't ask him to make throws he couldn't make. That's what's beautiful about the spread: you can literally attack any area of the field that you want to.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 10:07 PM
Sorry to say this, but Rivers led the NC St. version of the spread while in college. This was before Chow came to USC and just after he left spread-happy BYU. (not the spread option, but the spread passing version like Purdue had at the time, BYU, etc).

That's not accurate according to what I remember. Rivers spent a fair share of time in the shotgun, but most of the routes were sophisticated pro style routes. Agree to disagree if you like, but Rivers was asked to make deeper drops and throw more complex routes than Bradford.

There's YouTube of Rivers' last college game somewhere which demonstrates this.

The Unseen
03-04-2010, 10:11 PM
Yup.

Come to think of it, Roethlisberger was a spread quarterback, too. He worked almost exclusively out of the gun at Miami.

I've said it time and time again: people have the cause and effect mixed up with spread quarterbacks. When a spread QB sucks in the NFL it's not because of the system he played in during college. It's because he always sucked, but the spread hid his deficiencies and his coaches didn't ask him to make throws he couldn't make. That's what's beautiful about the spread: you can literally attack any area of the field that you want to.

Then I guess the natural reply is to say that because the spread hides deficiencies better, that means a scout should on average be more weary of a spread QB than a pro style QB?

descendency
03-04-2010, 10:28 PM
I don't think he will. If a QB goes first it'll be Clausen, not Bradford.

If I were a Rams fan, I hope you are right.

Bengalsrocket
03-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Then I guess the natural reply is to say that because the spread hides deficiencies better, that means a scout should on average be more weary of a spread QB than a pro style QB?

It just means you need a good enough scouting department to look into the QB with thorough analysis. Make sure the QB is doing all the right things and not having his weaknesses hidden by a scheme.

I know a popular sentiment on this board is that since they get paid to do their job, they should be better at it than your average draft enthusiast. But just as in every job, there are people who cannot perform theirs well and scouts are no exception.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 10:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2sbn1fnSg

There is a play here by Rivers at about 3:45 which shows what I want to see more out of from Bradford.

Two back, two TE formation. It's a PA rollout to the right. The TE to the left comes down and tries to chip the DE - doesn't work too well, so the DE forces Rivers off of the sweet spot. He rolls back to the left, finds his third read, the HB who squirted out of the backfield. Touchdown.

If it was Bradford in that situation, he probably sticks with his first read and accepts the hit from the DE. Rivers with his superior field vision finds the third read that the defense forgot about.

Rivers is slow as molasses, but he just instinctually knows where he has to get to in the pocket to get the best possible throw off. And he knows where everyone on the field is going - never locked into the primary read.

Youtube has every play from that game (2003 Tangerine Bowl) and I think really shows what a true pro-style prospect looks like.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 10:45 PM
That's not accurate according to what I remember. Rivers spent a fair share of time in the shotgun, but most of the routes were sophisticated pro style routes. Agree to disagree if you like, but Rivers was asked to make deeper drops and throw more complex routes than Bradford.

There's YouTube of Rivers' last college game somewhere which demonstrates this.

I've seen that game and, like you said, a majority of his snaps came out of the gun.

"Spread offense" is such a ubiquitous term that just about anything can be labeled as a "spread offense." It's much like the West Coast Offense craze of the 90s and early 2000s. Just about any team that featured shorter passes in contrast to longer passes was dubbed a "West Coast Offense." Look at how different Florida's spread is compared to what they used to run under Spurrier, to what June Jones ran at Hawaii, to Texas Tech's spread, to Texas' spread...they're all dubbed "spread offense" yet they're all very, very, very different.

To be completely honest, the **** that he's running at Oklahoma isn't all that different than what the Colts run under Manning or what the Bills used to run with Jim Kelly. It's a traditional hurry up, 1 runningback, 1 tight end offense that features a high tempo and a QB that can identify the mismatches presented by not allowing the defense to switch personnel groupings.

TACKLE
03-04-2010, 10:49 PM
I've been saying this for a long time. You can't just generalize all spread offenses and put them under one umbrella. You have to watch the specific offense operate before you can make judgments about the type of QB it produces.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 10:53 PM
ztPkDsOlGzU

1:27 - I formation. Play action pass down the seam to Gresham. Looks like an NFL play to me.

2:00 - I formation. Play action power pass. Looks like another NFL play.

3:55 - Ace dubs formation, under center. Play action boot. Lookie there, another NFL type play and throw.

4:50 - Another play action pass from under center.

Dude's not like Tebow where he took every single snap in college out of the shotgun. This is the same program and coaching staff that featured Adrian Peterson when they had him.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 10:56 PM
I've been saying this for a long time. You can't just generalize all spread offenses and put them under one umbrella. You have to watch the specific offense operate before you can make judgments about the type of QB it produces.

Thank you! Like I said, it's similar to the "West Coast Offense" craze of the 90s.

Mike Holmgren, Mike Shannahan, and Jon Gruden all come from the same WCO coaching tree. Yet, I can't even begin to describe how different each of their systems is.

yourfavestoner
03-04-2010, 10:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb2sbn1fnSg

There is a play here by Rivers at about 3:45 which shows what I want to see more out of from Bradford.

Two back, two TE formation. It's a PA rollout to the right. The TE to the left comes down and tries to chip the DE - doesn't work too well, so the DE forces Rivers off of the sweet spot. He rolls back to the left, finds his third read, the HB who squirted out of the backfield. Touchdown.

If it was Bradford in that situation, he probably sticks with his first read and accepts the hit from the DE. Rivers with his superior field vision finds the third read that the defense forgot about.

Rivers is slow as molasses, but he just instinctually knows where he has to get to in the pocket to get the best possible throw off. And he knows where everyone on the field is going - never locked into the primary read.

Youtube has every play from that game (2003 Tangerine Bowl) and I think really shows what a true pro-style prospect looks like.

I know exactly what video you're talking about and he's in the 'gun more than half the game.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:05 PM
I've seen that game and, like you said, a majority of his snaps came out of the gun.

"Spread offense" is such a ubiquitous term that just about anything can be labeled as a "spread offense." It's much like the West Coast Offense craze of the 90s and early 2000s. Just about any team that featured shorter passes in contrast to longer passes was dubbed a "West Coast Offense." Look at how different Florida's spread is compared to what they used to run under Spurrier, to what June Jones ran at Hawaii, to Texas Tech's spread, to Texas' spread...they're all dubbed "spread offense" yet they're all very, very, very different.

To be completely honest, the **** that he's running at Oklahoma isn't all that different than what the Colts run under Manning or what the Bills used to run with Jim Kelly. It's a traditional hurry up, 1 runningback, 1 tight end offense that features a high tempo and a QB that can identify the mismatches presented by not allowing the defense to switch personnel groupings.

Conceptually, the main difference between a spread offense and a pro style offense is that a pro style offense aims to stretch the field vertically, and the spread tries to challege the defense horizontally. IMO, that's how I differentiate the two.

I honestly think shotgun isn't that big of a part of it since shotgun is so prevalent now in pro-style offenses - Shotgun is just neccessary in spread offenses, it makes the QB's job that much easier being able to see the field and pick recievers on those quick hitting plays.

So much of what Manning does is downfield, the way Dallas Clark is used to stretch the seams that I can't call it a spread. Kelly's offense is a good example though. (I'm pretty old and I remember it being similar)

I wouldn't call June Jones or Mike Leach offenses spreads. I call those run&shoot offenses since the WR's make the pre-snap reads and adjustments.

holt_bruce81
03-04-2010, 11:05 PM
If I were a Rams fan, I hope you are right.

I would puke if the Rams took Jimmy over Sam.

San Diego Chicken
03-04-2010, 11:07 PM
ztPkDsOlGzU

1:27 - I formation. Play action pass down the seam to Gresham. Looks like an NFL play to me.

2:00 - I formation. Play action power pass. Looks like another NFL play.

3:55 - Ace dubs formation, under center. Play action boot. Lookie there, another NFL type play and throw.

4:50 - Another play action pass from under center.

Dude's not like Tebow where he took every single snap in college out of the shotgun. This is the same program and coaching staff that featured Adrian Peterson when they had him.

Did you notice, though, that all of those throws are off of PA? It seems like OU only wants to throw a pass from under center after a play fake.

descendency
03-04-2010, 11:14 PM
I would puke if the Rams took Jimmy over Sam.

It's not like Sam Bradford can't be better but that it seems that Bradford played in a situation where he was greatly helped out by having to rarely ever worry about a pass rush. He's going to be behind a pretty bad Rams OL.

I know there are lots of people who hate Clausen (because he's a f****ing pr*ck and because he went to Notre Dame, easily the two biggest reasons) but I see him as a more ready, day 1 QB for the Rams. And in this day and age, you may not get 3 years to wait for a QB to develop. Plus the coach has been there a year.

I know some will laugh, but I think if Clausen had been at USC instead of Notre Dame, USC would have won a NC, he'd be looked at as a winner, and he'd be everyone's #1 pick. Notre Dame is a school you either love or hate. Most hate it. Clausen led so many game winning drives over his 3 years that became just another drive because his D couldn't do anything that it's almost sickening to think about. If he had been at SC, they would have been game clinchers. The only thing that makes me even potentially believe that this isn't the case is that Clausen has two or maybe more WRs that will be first round draft picks around him, but even then they weren't always there.

GoBroncos
03-05-2010, 09:02 AM
I watched at least 7 games from Oklahoma the season before last, and not once did he impress me with any type of arm strength. I really could care less if you could throw the ball 80 yards. It's how fast you can stick it into the 10 yard in in between the CB and the LB. Can you throw the skinny in that 5 yard window between the CB and the S. I've never seen him do that. He's got an average arm with average velocity.


But he didn't have the same line. Sam Bradford was barely touched at all that season, but last year? Against BYU he couldn't handle the pressure BEFORE the injury. He's not ready to be pressured.



Why are stats important? I don't care how many passes you throw if you aren't making any difficult reads or throws. There's a lot of screens and clear outs for the RBs underneath. Not impressive at all.

How is that relevant?

Based on your statements, you haven't watched Sam Bradford play.

3pac
03-06-2010, 08:49 AM
I like Bradford a lot. I'm rooting for him, if only for the fact we're both named Sam........

.........but the dude needs to learn how to put some zip on the ball. EVERY SINGLE THROW he makes has a floaty feel to it, like it's only going 75% the speed of a normal QB's throw.

Also, since I'm from Indy and love ND......I think Clausen is better. But I don't want to argue about it. I'm rooting for them both to succeed.

Addict
03-06-2010, 08:59 AM
I like Bradford a lot. I'm rooting for him, if only for the fact we're both named Sam........

.........but the dude needs to learn how to put some zip on the ball. EVERY SINGLE THROW he makes has a floaty feel to it, like it's only going 75% the speed of a normal QB's throw.

Also, since I'm from Indy and love ND......I think Clausen is better. But I don't want to argue about it. I'm rooting for them both to succeed.

I thought your name was threepac!

3pac
03-06-2010, 09:21 AM
I thought your name was threepac!

What can I say, I'm a dream crusher like that.

bigfreak314
03-06-2010, 09:33 AM
OK a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on arm strength, one of the most overrated attributes about the QB posistion. Not to say its not important but do you want an guy that can throw the ball 80 yards or throw a catchable ball to the reciever where the D cordinator is blitzing like 8 guys. I prefer the latter. I think accuracy is major importance. I would like a QB who can get the balll to the play makers and Bradford does that. One of the best, if not The in college football. Second thing is release, how fast can he get it out there. I will take accuracy and quick release over arm strength in the NFL any day of the week. Plus the kid is smart, able to make the proper audibles to the WRs and RBs. He may need to work on calling protection audibles but you can learn that. One thing that can not be learned is that if his shoulder is completly healthy, and that is something team doctors are going to have to deligently look at. The shoulder is so hard to judge because of all the muscle tendons that connect the joint to the bone. If he was playing a different position no problem but the biggest fear is if it doesnt heal properly and that is where the big red flag come in. Being labeled as "Fragile" and playing behind a horriendous OL that Rams have now would not do the kid any justice if he has to play any time this season. If he is able to do the Carson Palmer thing and sit out for a year and learn the system, rest his shoulder. Then yes I say pull the trigger and draft the kid #1. But Now a day you want instant production or at least something to put on paper with the 1st overall pick so he might be rushed into duty ahead of time and get hurt. Once again these are merely ifs and buts, no one knows what the rams are going to do. Since they signed AJ Feely looks like they are going to draft a QB and make him the # 3 QB on thier roster and let him sit back and watch, learn, and most importantly get him and thier OL healthy

Addict
03-06-2010, 10:36 AM
OK a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on arm strength, one of the most overrated attributes about the QB posistion. Not to say its not important but do you want an guy that can throw the ball 80 yards or throw a catchable ball to the reciever where the D cordinator is blitzing like 8 guys. I prefer the latter.

It's all about making all the throws. Arm strength is probably a little overrated, but it's nothing to dismiss either. If it really wasn't a problem, Matt Leinart wouldn't be considered a less than perfect starter. Keeping in mind that Bradford does have an arm, I guess you're right, but as high as #1 you want kids with special arms, not just okay ones. One can find a QB with a decent arm in the third, special arms go in the first.


I think accuracy is major importance. I would like a QB who can get the balll to the play makers and Bradford does that.

I don't think anyone second-guesses his accuracy


One of the best, if not The in college football.

Tim Tebow says hello.


Second thing is release, how fast can he get it out there. I will take accuracy and quick release over arm strength in the NFL any day of the week. Plus the kid is smart, able to make the proper audibles to the WRs and RBs.

Accuracy and quick release are great but useless if you don't have an arm. Like I said, this isn't to needlessly demonize Bradford, he's just not the #1 overall type of QB, at least, that's the argument. Nothing wrong with his release or his accuracy.

He may need to work on calling protection audibles but you can learn that. One thing that can not be learned is that if his shoulder is completly healthy, and that is something team doctors are going to have to deligently look at. The shoulder is so hard to judge because of all the muscle tendons that connect the joint to the bone.

The shoulder thing I agree is an issue, the bigger one is the system he comes from, and it not being a pro style offense. But we've seen QB's adapt to the pro format often enough.

If he was playing a different position no problem but the biggest fear is if it doesnt heal properly and that is where the big red flag come in. Being labeled as "Fragile" and playing behind a horriendous OL that Rams have now would not do the kid any justice if he has to play any time this season.

That rams OL won't be magically fixed in one or two seasons either, and sticking a kid with a recovering shoulder (it'll take a while for that thing to be back 100%) is risky, but then again so is playing football in general.

If he is able to do the Carson Palmer thing and sit out for a year and learn the system, rest his shoulder. Then yes I say pull the trigger and draft the kid #1. But Now a day you want instant production or at least something to put on paper with the 1st overall pick so he might be rushed into duty ahead of time and get hurt. Once again these are merely ifs and buts, no one knows what the rams are going to do.

Honestly, I don't really agree 100% that QB's HAVE got to perform their first year. more often than not they're drafted into QB-less teams with needs all over and with nothing going for them, so yes then they need to step up, but so would any rookie. I believe that most head coaches if they had the option would prefer to bring the QB up to speed and get him ready for a season, before throwing him out there.

Since they signed AJ Feely looks like they are going to draft a QB and make him the # 3 QB on thier roster and let him sit back and watch, learn, and most importantly get him and thier OL healthy

AJ Feely's not exactly a dragonslayer, and starting Bulger again would make rams fans sad panda's.

And the enter key is your friend.

vidae
03-06-2010, 10:43 AM
I thought your name was threepac!

Oh Addict, you so crazy.

descendency
03-06-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't think anyone second-guesses his accuracy

I'm kind of curious how that accuracy holds up when he gets pressure in his face. He seems to have Peyton Manning kind of accuracy when he is in the pocket (although after re-watching some of his games, I don't really love his accuracy *that* much anymore) but he won't get that kind of time in the pocket in the NFL, ever.

SloppyJoe
03-08-2010, 12:39 PM
He will not work out on his pro day. How much can this hurt him?

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/08/bradford-wont-be-at-oklahomas-pro-day/

vidae
03-08-2010, 12:53 PM
That article says he is going to work out on March 25th. It isn't like he's not doing anything before the draft.

Babylon
03-08-2010, 01:01 PM
He will not work out on his pro day. How much can this hurt him?

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/08/bradford-wont-be-at-oklahomas-pro-day/

For those that like him it probably doesnt matter at this point. You really have to go back a year to see what he can do and that was with a great O-line and a host of weapons. Personally i wouldnt take him but i hope the Rams do.

jtcharger24
03-08-2010, 07:13 PM
I watched at least 7 games from Oklahoma the season before last, and not once did he impress me with any type of arm strength. I really could care less if you could throw the ball 80 yards. It's how fast you can stick it into the 10 yard in in between the CB and the LB. Can you throw the skinny in that 5 yard window between the CB and the S. I've never seen him do that. He's got an average arm with average velocity.


But he didn't have the same line. Sam Bradford was barely touched at all that season, but last year? Against BYU he couldn't handle the pressure BEFORE the injury. He's not ready to be pressured.



Why are stats important? I don't care how many passes you throw if you aren't making any difficult reads or throws. There's a lot of screens and clear outs for the RBs underneath. Not impressive at all.

How is that relevant?

Dude either watch some film on the guy or stop talking. You are talking out of your ass. Even that Youtube clip Pudge posted showed him making the very throws you just said he couldn't and taking a pounding while throwing accurate passes with velocity.

jtcharger24
03-08-2010, 07:18 PM
Your point would be valid if Brady had a noodle like Sam Bradford. That isn't the case, and as I've said, it doesn't matter if you can throw it 80, but I have yet to see him display it.


He still wasn't impressive under pressure. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to be effective under pressure. He folded in that game before the injury, and quite frankly, looked scared.





lol. No offense is easy, but he wasn't taking and making difficult throws on a daily basis. He was throwing screens and underneath routes, and mixing in some intermediate stuff. If I have to reiterate it, I don't care about deep throws. I care about velocity. He doesn't display above average velocity, from what I've witnessed.

Noodle arm? I will officially ignore all of your analysis from this point forward. You obviously have some sort of hatred of the guy and are letting that effect your judgment, or you really have no idea what you are talking about.

He doesn't have an arm like Cutler or Stafford but its certainly no where near Pennington (noodle arm defined).

I'm not saying Bradford is a lock to be a great QB, and I've heard some compelling arguments against him being a top pick, but they certainly arn't coming from you.

bitonti
03-22-2010, 04:55 PM
just want to give this a bump and say

there's been no evidence of this happening other than Adam Schefter's comments at the combine.

this has been group-think taking over

a doctor can fix a shoulder

he can't guarantee it stays fixed

when is this dude gonna work out, ever? it's like a month to the draft!

ThePudge
03-22-2010, 05:02 PM
just want to give this a bump and say

there's been no evidence of this happening other than Adam Schefter's comments at the combine.

this has been group-think taking over

a doctor can fix a shoulder

he can't guarantee it stays fixed

when is this dude gonna work out, ever? it's like a month to the draft!

March 29th. There is a separate thread just for that. The Rams GM said the Pro Day is Bradford's "final test" and it looks like he's the odds-on favorite to be the first pick. Keep on thinking Suh (McCoy/Clausen) though, there was some that thought Aaron Curry would be a Lion at 1st Overall a year ago....

bitonti
03-24-2010, 04:56 PM
eagles reportedly got a 2nd round pick offer from STL for McNabb... doesn't sound like a team in love with bradford

Malaka
03-24-2010, 04:58 PM
eagles reportedly got a 2nd round pick offer from STL for McNabb... doesn't sound like a team in love with bradford

Source? Please ad thank you.

bitonti
03-24-2010, 05:00 PM
Source? Please ad thank you.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Report-Eagles-have-offer-on-table-for-McNabb.html

Splat
03-24-2010, 05:17 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/24/atogwe-in-reported-mcnabb-offer-too/

The Rams' reported offer for Donovan McNabb (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=704) includes a rather-nice addition to the team's No. 33 overall pick.

Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer reports the Rams have offered the first pick of the second round and safety O.J. Atogwe (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/McNabb_to_the_Rams_on_the_table.html), who is currently an unsigned restricted free agent.

McNabb is reportedly open to joining the Rams, but not heading to Buffalo or Oakland.

Then again, the whole thing could be nothing more than posturing.

A Rams source told PFT's Mike Florio (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/24/conflicting-reports-emerge-regarding-mcnabb-to-rams/) that there is "zero truth" to the team's reported interest in McNabb.

So someone is lying. Either McLane's sources are trying to scare up a trade market for McNabb or the Rams source is trying to buy time and keep other teams away.

We'll find out who is telling the truth soon enough.

Bald_81
03-24-2010, 05:34 PM
Devaney on Philly trade rumors: “Absolutely false.”
By Jim Thomas
St. Louis Post-Dispatch

ORLANDO, Fla. _ St. Louis Rams general manager Billy Devaney said reports Wednesday by the Philadelphia media that St. Louis was offering its second-round pick and safety Oshiomogho Atogwe for Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb: “Absolutely false.”

Devaney added: “It’s utterly ridiculous. I haven’t talked to Philadelphia about any of their players.”

Another Rams source said of the Eagles, “They may have a trade offer, but not from us. Why would we trade for McNabb and then go watch Bradford throw on Monday?”

Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford, whom the Rams are considering with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft, has his pro day on Monday.

Atogwe currently cannot be traded since he’s not under contract. He was given the lowest possible tender as a restricted free agent, but has not signed that tender.

I'm assuming this is posturing on the part of the Eagles to drive up McNabb's price tag. It's looking extremely likely that Sam is a Ram come April 22nd.

bitonti
03-24-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm assuming this is posturing on the part of the Eagles to drive up McNabb's price tag. It's looking extremely likely that Sam is a Ram come April 22nd.

where there is smoke...

jtcharger24
10-05-2010, 06:22 PM
Your point would be valid if Brady had a noodle like Sam Bradford. That isn't the case, and as I've said, it doesn't matter if you can throw it 80, but I have yet to see him display it.


He still wasn't impressive under pressure. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to be effective under pressure. He folded in that game before the injury, and quite frankly, looked scared.





lol. No offense is easy, but he wasn't taking and making difficult throws on a daily basis. He was throwing screens and underneath routes, and mixing in some intermediate stuff. If I have to reiterate it, I don't care about deep throws. I care about velocity. He doesn't display above average velocity, from what I've witnessed.

Bump........

bitonti
10-05-2010, 10:30 PM
i'll admit the sam bradford thing has taught me a lesson. a football team needs hope

He's playing his butt off right now and it certainly looks like a great pick so far. not to say Suh has been bad (he's also been very solid), but the Rams have started well and good for them.

i still am concerned about his durability but right now, it's a franchise going up not down and that's because of sam bradford. the rodger saffold pick was pretty good as well. Chris Long is also living up to draft status.

ThePudge
10-05-2010, 11:08 PM
i'll admit the sam bradford thing has taught me a lesson. a football team needs hope

He's playing his butt off right now and it certainly looks like a great pick so far. not to say Suh has been bad (he's also been very solid), but the Rams have started well and good for them.

i still am concerned about his durability but right now, it's a franchise going up not down and that's because of sam bradford. the rodger saffold pick was pretty good as well. Chris Long is also living up to draft status.

Glad you're coming around on Sam Bradford, he's got a lot of tools physically & mentally. He could have the capacity and raw ability to be a Pro Bowl passer.

If the Rams picked Suh they'd likely be 0-4 or 1-3; Bradford's really inspired them & put them on his back. Really surprising for a rookie, I just hopes he continues to get the protection he needs. A freak injury can happen to any QB that doesn't protect himself. Sam's courage in the pocket could end up hurting him on that turf, but a lot just depends on his protection and the play-calling.

stephenson86
10-06-2010, 08:49 AM
I always liked Sam Bradford...not often I pick a QB that looks good.

EvilNixon
10-06-2010, 09:02 AM
Bump........

His velocity isn't good. His ball placement has really shocked me though. Raiders got one hit on him in that game, and his accuracy went to ****..

A Perfect Score
10-06-2010, 10:02 AM
Actually, the velocity on his throws has been what's impressed me most. His first TD pass against the Seahawks was an absolute bullet.

Halsey
10-06-2010, 10:05 AM
The Rams and their fans should be thrilled right now. Yes, it's a concern that Bradford may always have problems staying healthy, but at least the Rams have hope that they've got a franchise QB for the next decade or more. Teams can go a decade or more without having a franchise QB, so what the Rams have is better than having a situation like some teams. Bradford looks like he'll be really good if he stays healthy.

armageddon
10-08-2010, 12:21 PM
His velocity isn't good. His ball placement has really shocked me though. Raiders got one hit on him in that game, and his accuracy went to ****..



THe 2nd half of the Raiders game was his worst half of the year. Things got a little sloppy there. I wouldn't judge him by that half.

jtcharger24
10-27-2010, 10:17 AM
His velocity isn't good. His ball placement has really shocked me though. Raiders got one hit on him in that game, and his accuracy went to ****..

lol his velocity has been fantastic, what in the world are you talking about

SRogers92
10-27-2010, 02:07 PM
He looked like crap against my Lions :)