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Babylon
03-05-2010, 11:06 AM
Didnt run what i expected at the combine coming in at 4.52 for his best time. Part of that as was pointed out could be the extra 10 lbs he put on after the Senior Bowl. Keep in mind he plays fast, constantly getting behind SEC corners and he is very good at beating man coverage off the line.

Bottom line with Cooper is he's an athlete, 6-3 222 lbs and very good at adjusting to the ball in the air. I think he'll get the 40 down at his pro day and see his stock rise by draft time. Also a great blocker for the postion.

nepg
03-05-2010, 11:10 AM
Kinda reminds me of how Hank Baskett was treated prior to that draft.

ElectricEye
03-05-2010, 12:22 PM
I fully expected 4.4 something at least from him. Putting that weight on was a bad move.

ThePudge
03-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Don't forget he's a Florida receiver. He hasn't had experience running a full route tree, his feet aren't all too nimble in a phone booth, and there has to be some concern there that he's a one year wonder as his career production isn't good; his Senior season he was a good player. He's fast on tape (around 215) but must learn the nuances of the game & position. Not refined and he'll need to time a bit better to get consideration in the Third Round or higher.

I have him graded out currently similar to former teammate Louis Murphy, as an Early 4th Round value.

Complex
03-05-2010, 12:35 PM
He is gonna be out of the league in 3yrs watch....

ElectricEye
03-05-2010, 12:37 PM
Don't forget he's a Florida receiver. He hasn't had experience running a full route tree, his feet aren't all too nimble in a phone booth, and there has to be some concern there that he's a one year wonder as his career production isn't good; his Senior season he was a good player. He's fast on tape (around 215) but must learn the nuances of the game & position. Not refined and he'll need to time a bit better to get consideration in the Third Round or higher.

I have him graded out currently similar to former teammate Louis Murphy, as an Early 4th Round value.

This is all very true. Extremely similar to Murphy. However, Murphy and Havin's early success might help Cooper's stock a bit.

ThePudge
03-05-2010, 12:43 PM
This is all very true. Extremely similar to Murphy. However, Murphy and Havin's early success might help Cooper's stock a bit.

Harvin's shouldn't. That guy is an athletic marvel that could play one of about four positions anywhere. Murphy's success should help him as his role at Florida was the same role that Cooper played in 09'. Murphy had more experience than his Senior year, but overall they were fairly similar prospects. There's not a lot of trust out there for Florida wideouts, but I have no problem giving these athletes a look in the late 3rd/early 4th (see Andre Caldwell, Murphy, and now Cooper)

49erNation85
03-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Cooper will be a descent WR in the NFL . His speed may not be near as fast as Harvins or Murhpy's but he will be more of a possession style wr . Hes a big target and should be a good route runner as well , maybe a return guy who noes for now .

batsandgats
03-05-2010, 01:15 PM
He shows hes has potential to be more than a possession receiver in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrmWNxm5mE

look at 4:40 where he outruns South Carolina dbs and then at 6:39 where he burns a corner in the Sugar Bowl. I think Tebow was part of the problem for his production. There were many times where I would see him wide open down the field and Tebow would check down to someone like Hernandez, either Tebow didn't see him going through his progressions or simply didn't trust his arm to put the ball there accurately. Has made some ridiculous catches, including few one handed ones, but did drop a few passes, but Tebow doesn't always throw the easiest balls.

That video doesn't show how good a run blocker he is though. He is a little raw but it can be worked on. Id say hes a little better than Murphy, he put up better stats his senior year, more yards, a few more tds and more yards per catch, same with Caldwell, he had around the same number of catches but more yards than him. Of course he only had a good senior season, but hew wasn't a big part of the offense before this season.

ElectricEye
03-05-2010, 01:25 PM
Cooper will be a descent WR in the NFL . His speed may not be near as fast as Harvins or Murhpy's but he will be more of a possession style wr . Hes a big target and should be a good route runner as well , maybe a return guy who noes for now .

Cooper has neither the hands nor route running skills to be a possession receiver in the NFL. He'll have the get by on his athleticism and hope somebody can coach him up.

ThePudge
03-05-2010, 01:58 PM
Has made some ridiculous one catches, including a few one handed ones, but did dropped a few ones, but Tebow doesn't always throw the easiest balls.

I didn't see the bolded part the first time through. He made some highlight reel catches, but he has to work on his consistency and concentration as he'll drop some easy ones. He didn't really stand out in Mobile where he had a chance to boost his grade and didn't use the Combine to help either. He needs to get down around his playing weight of 210-215 for his Pro Day and show the sub 4.45 speed most of us think he has.

I don't see him as a better prospect than Louis Murphy, though the two are not far off in terms of value. Where Cooper brings a bit more bulk and ability in terms of run-blocking, Murphy had better feet and had more experience & polish as a receiver.

Babylon
03-05-2010, 02:04 PM
He shows hes has potential to be more than a possession receiver in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrmWNxm5mE

look at 4:40 where he outruns South Carolina dbs and then at 6:39 where he burns a corner in the Sugar Bowl. I think Tebow was part of the problem for his production. There were many times where I would see him wide open down the field and Tebow would check down to someone like Hernandez, either Tebow didn't see him going through his progressions or simply didn't trust his arm to put the ball there accurately. Has made some ridiculous one catches, including a few one handed ones, but did dropped a few ones, but Tebow doesn't always throw the easiest balls.

That video doesn't show how good a run blocker he is though. He is a little raw but it can be worked on. Id say hes a little better than Murphy, he put up better stats his senior year, more yards, a few more tds and more yards per catch, same with Caldwell, he had around the same number of catches but more yards than him. Of course he only had a good senior season, but hew wasn't a big part of the offense before this season.

The thing i took from that video overrall is how good of an athlete he is. Unlike some receivers that cant adjust to a deep ball when it is in the air he seems to have the ablility to go up over guys to make a play. At around 225 he could probably be used like an Ed McCaffrey who had a really nice NFL career.

As for the one good year as Pudge pointed out it is better that it was his last year and i think it has been just recently when he's made the total focus to football and not baseball. I think potentially he has more upside than a Jordy Nelson who went much higher than Coop is expected to go. (no hate mail for that last comment please)

ThePudge
03-05-2010, 02:13 PM
As for the one good year as Pudge pointed out it is better that it was his last year and i think it has been just recently when he's made the total focus to football and not baseball. I think potentially he has more upside than a Jordy Nelson who went much higher than Coop is expected to go. (no hate mail for that last comment please)

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that as Jordy brought return value and I though his hands/route-running were much further along at this point. I perceived Nelson's role to be a little greater than what I think Riley will be seen as. In terms of pure upside, Cooper (and most UF receivers) have it, but he lacks polish and I wouldn't expect anyone to take a shot on him before the 3rd even with a good Pro Day.

batsandgats
03-05-2010, 03:49 PM
Hah that was bad grammar. I was in a hurry when I wrote it. Jordy was more polished out of college, better route running and hands but I think Cooper does have more upside as far as pro potential. Jordy still has a chance to show his ability, he is stuck behind some talented receivers, maybe when Driver is gone. Riley put up some good numbers without being that polished, I just think his ceiling is much higher with good coaching. If he would have came in a little thinner and ran a sub-4.5 I think he could have went in the 2nd. I think he still has a shot with his pro day (although a smaller shot). He just needs one team to realize the potential.

RealityCheck
03-05-2010, 07:27 PM
He somehow reminds me of Kevin Curtis.

ALP1987
03-05-2010, 07:38 PM
He killed himself with the 4.52 40 yard dash. Everyone was expecting him to run in the 4.4s and he didn't do that. He wasn't a very productive WR in college which hurt his stock right out of the box and then topped it off by running in the 4.5's. I was thinking 3rd-4th if he ran in the 4.4s but since he didn't do that 5th-7th.

Babylon
03-05-2010, 08:34 PM
He killed himself with the 4.52 40 yard dash. Everyone was expecting him to run in the 4.4s and he didn't do that. He wasn't a very productive WR in college which hurt his stock right out of the box and then topped it off by running in the 4.5's. I was thinking 3rd-4th if he ran in the 4.4s but since he didn't do that 5th-7th.

Yet Demaryius Thomas at basically the same size doesnt run and his stock seems to be holding and Mardy Gilyard seems to be hanging in there with worse 40 times. As for Cooper's production he did catch 51 passes for about 20 ypc so not sure that is what you would call not very productive.

ElectricEye
03-05-2010, 08:36 PM
Yet Demaryius Thomas at basically the same size doesnt run and his stock seems to be holding and Mardy Gilyard seems to be hanging in there with worse 40 times. As for Cooper's production he did catch 51 passes for about 20 ypc so not sure that is what you would call not very productive.

Think a lot of people knew Gilyard was going to run a bad time. Straightline speed was not his game.

Had Thomas been healthy and ran a bad time, he would have dropped as well. He was also rated quite a bit higher by most people than Cooper before his injury.

Really not much getting around the fact Cooper did not deliver at the combine.

SUP
03-06-2010, 07:49 AM
He killed himself with the 4.52 40 yard dash. Everyone was expecting him to run in the 4.4s and he didn't do that. He wasn't a very productive WR in college which hurt his stock right out of the box and then topped it off by running in the 4.5's. I was thinking 3rd-4th if he ran in the 4.4s but since he didn't do that 5th-7th.

LOL

so 4 hundresths of a second is the difference from the 3rd to maybe the 7th, get real.

The 40 isnt everything...

the_dark_knight
03-06-2010, 08:35 AM
He killed himself with the 4.52 40 yard dash. Everyone was expecting him to run in the 4.4s and he didn't do that. He wasn't a very productive WR in college which hurt his stock right out of the box and then topped it off by running in the 4.5's. I was thinking 3rd-4th if he ran in the 4.4s but since he didn't do that 5th-7th.

So let me get this straight, because the "official" 40 time clocked him @ 4.52 on a fairly slow track, he killed himself?

Remember this is from the same people's "official" time that was wrong on Taylor Mays' 40 time by a tenth of a second or more. They have him officially @ 4.42 and there is video evidence to prove that isn't the case. He finished 2nd in the 40 to a guy who ran an "official" 4.28. Their official clock guys aren't so great.

Not to mention the fact that football is played in pads and helmets, not shorts and tshirts, how well can a player carry his pads? How well does his speed transition to the field? We've all watched Jacoby play, he doesn't translate his speed well to the field. People freak out about 40 yard dash times every year, and sometimes it's legit, but most of the time, it's just something for the analysts to talk about.

Babylon
03-06-2010, 01:37 PM
So let me get this straight, because the "official" 40 time clocked him @ 4.52 on a fairly slow track, he killed himself?

Remember this is from the same people's "official" time that was wrong on Taylor Mays' 40 time by a tenth of a second or more. They have him officially @ 4.42 and there is video evidence to prove that isn't the case. He finished 2nd in the 40 to a guy who ran an "official" 4.28. Their official clock guys aren't so great.

Not to mention the fact that football is played in pads and helmets, not shorts and tshirts, how well can a player carry his pads? How well does his speed transition to the field? We've all watched Jacoby play, he doesn't translate his speed well to the field. People freak out about 40 yard dash times every year, and sometimes it's legit, but most of the time, it's just something for the analysts to talk about.


Those are usually arguments in defense of guy that doesnt run as well as expected but you're actually correct. Watch Cooper play and he plays like a 4.4 guy. I still picture him getting behind 4.4 guy Patrick Robinson. Tape dont lie as they say.

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2010, 03:56 PM
What's wrong with being drafted late and earning a spot on a team??

Coop is gonna have to be one of the top 4-5 WRs for some team in TC and the preseason, as well as show some value on kick coverage to earn his NFL jersey.

THe game is about competition, let the guy go out there and prove himself.

He's not an elite prospect but he does have skills/tools. If I were a Riley Cooper fan, I wouldn't worry too much about how highly regarded he is right now.
I'd be more concerned about how much he's preparing himself to kill it in TC.

Babylon
03-06-2010, 06:40 PM
What's wrong with being drafted late and earning a spot on a team??

Coop is gonna have to be one of the top 4-5 WRs for some team in TC and the preseason, as well as show some value on kick coverage to earn his NFL jersey.

THe game is about competition, let the guy go out there and prove himself.

He's not an elite prospect but he does have skills/tools. If I were a Riley Cooper fan, I wouldn't worry too much about how highly regarded he is right now.
I'd be more concerned about how much he's preparing himself to kill it in TC.

I'm trying to discuss/justify why i think he should go higher than most appear to have him going. Any prospect is going to have to get into camp and earn a spot. I think he's better than some are giving him credit for. It isnt like he played for William & Mary or Washington (ouch) the Gators are a bigtime program. I would really like to see Pete Carroll grab him in the 4th to play opposite Marshall (potentially).

ALP1987
03-06-2010, 08:37 PM
@ Babylon - SUP - the_dark_knight

I didnt think high of him before the draft and i dont after. He didn't show anything special with his 40 and he hasn't really shown anything special at the College level. Just because he beat a few corners in College doesn't mean he is going to be good in the NFL. Take Mike Hass for example. The guy killed it in College. He was basically uncoverable and burned Corners right and left but he went to the Combine and ran a 4.60 and was a 6th or 7th round pick. He has been nothing more than a Practice Squad WR in the NFL now. Yeah he doesn't have Coopers size (6'3" vs 6') but he was a far more productive WR in college.


I hope the guy proves me wrong because i don't wish ill on anyone but i just doesnt see him as anything more than a 3rd or 4th WR in the NFL.

Babylon
03-07-2010, 01:08 PM
@ Babylon - SUP - the_dark_knight

I didnt think high of him before the draft and i dont after. He didn't show anything special with his 40 and he hasn't really shown anything special at the College level. Just because he beat a few corners in College doesn't mean he is going to be good in the NFL. Take Mike Hass for example. The guy killed it in College. He was basically uncoverable and burned Corners right and left but he went to the Combine and ran a 4.60 and was a 6th or 7th round pick. He has been nothing more than a Practice Squad WR in the NFL now. Yeah he doesn't have Coopers size (6'3" vs 6') but he was a far more productive WR in college.


I hope the guy proves me wrong because i don't wish ill on anyone but i just doesnt see him as anything more than a 3rd or 4th WR in the NFL.

Kevin Walter is a #2 WR and a pretty good compliment to Andre Johnson. Cooper is the same size as Walter, faster, maybe a better blocker.

As for the Haas comparison they arent anything alike really and the Pac-10 isnt exactly the SEC in producing corners for the NFL.

RedVision
03-07-2010, 02:08 PM
Kevin Walter is a #2 WR and a pretty good compliment to Andre Johnson. Cooper is the same size as Walter, faster, maybe a better blocker.

As for the Haas comparison they arent anything alike really and the Pac-10 isnt exactly the SEC in producing corners for the NFL.

It's not exactly like Hass ever had a shot at proving his worth during an NFL game...

Complex
03-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Kevin Walter is a #2 WR and a pretty good compliment to Andre Johnson. Cooper is the same size as Walter, faster, maybe a better blocker.

As for the Haas comparison they arent anything alike really and the Pac-10 isnt exactly the SEC in producing corners for the NFL.

You act like playing in the SEC makes you special. There's like 2-3 above average SEC WR's in the NFL. Sidney and Percy maybe Hines thats it(he getting old). Riley Cooper is gonna be a special teams players maybe a 3rd wideout thats it.

Babylon
03-07-2010, 04:24 PM
You act like playing in the SEC makes you special. There's like 2-3 above average SEC WR's in the NFL. Sidney and Percy maybe Hines thats it(he getting old). Riley Cooper is gonna be a special teams players maybe a 3rd wideout thats it.

I was actually referring to SEC corners who to me are on a regular basis superior to Pac-10 corners. As for the WRs they're better in the SEC too. What they turn out of Tennessee, So. Carolina, Florida, Bama etc on a fairly consistant basis is better than the Pac-10.

batsandgats
03-07-2010, 05:51 PM
Hass was a great route runner and got by with that in college. Cooper is pretty raw and got it mostly done with athleticism, and he can be coached up on the other stuff, which makes his ceiling pretty high. I don't see how Mike Hass compares to Cooper at all, the logic makes no sense, just because one wide receiver who was productive in college didn't make it means all wide receivers who had production in college won't make it? Cooper had pretty decent production, 19 yards per catch, close to a 1,000 yards 9 tds, Cooper didn't have the best qb throwing to him, no offense to Tebow but he struggled with going through progressions and would throw a 10 yard pass when Cooper was open further down the field, I dont know if he didnt see him or just didn't trust his arm to get it their accurately. He had more receiving yards his last season than previous receivers like Murphy and Caldwell. More receiving yards than Harvin but can't really compare him to Cooper because he was used as an all purpose threat running and receiving, Cooper did average more yards per catch than him though.

Im pretty sure his 961 receving yards is the highest in one season for a Gator since 2003 (could be longer than that, thats the farthest I can find for UF receivers)