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View Full Version : McClain is gonna drop


Supporting Caste
03-06-2010, 04:17 PM
I like the guy, and I don't know why this thought didn't hit me earlier, but there's no way he goes top 15. I'm betting he falls out of the first entirely.

I love his instincts, strength and hitting ability, but the guy is slow.

Bradie James + 1

FUNBUNCHER
03-06-2010, 04:27 PM
FOr McClain, it all depends on his 40 time.

If he runs a 4.65 or better, he's the 1st LB off the board.

4.65 - 4.75, still a great shot at being the #1 LB, because his size, production, leadership, overall intangibles will allow teams to forgive his lack of foot speed.

If he times in the 4.8 to 4.9 range, he'll fall like a rock rolling downhill.

Not necessarily out of the 1st, can't see the Pats passing on the guy no matter what, but he won't be top 20.

After UF CB Haden ran that slow time at the combine, nothing will surprise me from McClain.

I still think McClain fits inside in a 34 no matter what he runs, but he won't be considered to man the MIKE for a 43 D with the wheels lacking to play with range in a front 7.

Supporting Caste
03-06-2010, 04:30 PM
If he runs a 4.7 he will be a top 15 pick.

The problem is he doesn't look much faster on film than guys like Micah Johnson do.

I don't think McClain can play in the 4-3.

I highly disagree with the Patriots comment. I don't think he's what Belichick looks for. Parcells maybe. Parcells loves slow LBs.

holt_bruce81
03-06-2010, 04:32 PM
He's a stud. He May not go top 15 because Linebackers tend to fall, but he'll have great success at the next level.

eagles6606
03-06-2010, 04:34 PM
This guy is not slow! Watch the Florida tape, he tracked a track star down on the sideline. Mcclain is easily the top LB in this draft, and a top 10 pick.

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 04:41 PM
He already has, by not running, by Dansby signing with Miami, he has slightly dropped. After everyone stopped jizzing themselves over the flavor of the week they finally realized he's not an elite prospect, but a pretty damn good one.

A 4.7 is perfectly fine for him, his game isnt centered around speed but in certain systems he will be dropped, hes just simply not as flexible as people thought. Pittsburg has a choice to make, Earl Thomas or trading up for McClain if Denver or San Fran hasn't already.

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 04:42 PM
This guy is not slow! Watch the Florida tape, he tracked a track star down on the sideline. Mcclain is easily the top LB in this draft, and a top 10 pick.

He took a good angle, put himself in the right position, he ran in a straight line and made a shoestring tackle. The runner wasnt running in a straight line, if he had better balance, he was gone.

Supporting Caste
03-06-2010, 04:43 PM
I'm telling you, the guy is SLOW. he's got heavy feet and a low top speed.

Also, he tackles really high.

I love his ability to take on blockers and I think he does a great job of following the ball and putting himself in position to make plays, but the guy is an elephant.

descendency
03-06-2010, 05:06 PM
I'm praying for a 4.81 pro-day.

but the guy is an elephant.

elephant, tank, mack truck... same difference.

CashmoneyDrew
03-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Best believe he won't fall past the Titans at 16. They're enamored with him.

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 05:39 PM
Best believe he won't fall past the Titans at 16. They're enamored with him.

And thats exactly why someone will trade with the giants to get him, what happened to all the McGrath love?

CashmoneyDrew
03-06-2010, 05:41 PM
And thats exactly why someone will trade with the giants to get him, what happened to all the McGrath love?

McGrath is great, but he can't play both OLB spots by himself.

RWills
03-06-2010, 05:49 PM
Ive been saying this for 2 weeks now, I dont think he is a 3-down MLB early in his career, and I think having Cody upfront has really helped his sideline to sideline, he will be a player, just not top 15, I have him going to Arizona

Hines
03-06-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know who I would rather have if both Spoon and McClain are on the board at 18.

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 05:52 PM
I don't know who I would rather have if both Spoon and McClain are on the board at 18.

Youd rather trade up to the Giants for a 3rd :)

umphrey
03-06-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't think he has a chance at top 15 unless he runs a 4.5x, so I don't think he has a chance at top 15. I think his range is 25-45 Ravens #1 to Broncos #2.

Grizzlegom
03-06-2010, 06:35 PM
he still has a chance to be drafted top 15 as both the Broncos and Giants could take him but I have been saying for a while that I thought he would drop out of the top 15 because of his position.

fenikz
03-06-2010, 06:40 PM
I'm telling you, the guy is SLOW. he's got heavy feet and a low top speed.

Also, he tackles really high.

I love his ability to take on blockers and I think he does a great job of following the ball and putting himself in position to make plays, but the guy is an elephant.

plus he is black...

STsACE
03-06-2010, 06:42 PM
If he runs a 4.7 he will be a top 15 pick.

The problem is he doesn't look much faster on film than guys like Micah Johnson do.

I don't think McClain can play in the 4-3.

I highly disagree with the Patriots comment. I don't think he's what Belichick looks for. Parcells maybe. Parcells loves slow LBs.

If he runs a 5.01 like Johnson, he's a mid 2nd or at least should be.

If he runs below a 4.7 at his pro-day, I'd be happy with him at #7.

Babylon
03-06-2010, 06:44 PM
He reminds me some of a Carl Banks who was a great linebacker for the Giants. Banks went a lot higher than McClain did but i see the similarities. Now if he can play off a Lawrence Taylor type then he's probably worth the investment. I dont really see anyone near him to tell the truth in the LB dept.

eagles6606
03-06-2010, 06:45 PM
I don't think he has a chance at top 15 unless he runs a 4.5x, so I don't think he has a chance at top 15. I think his range is 25-45 Ravens #1 to Broncos #2.

Well if he falls to 24, the Eagles will take a very hard look at him. Bradley on the strong side and Mcclain in the middle. That sounds good to me!

T-RICH49
03-06-2010, 06:55 PM
he's falling alright...to 5 :D

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 06:57 PM
he's falling alright...to 5 :D

and then further because pick 5 will be Bulaga :)

T-RICH49
03-06-2010, 06:58 PM
and then further because pick 5 will be Bulaga :)

That is so NOT funny

BaLLiN
03-06-2010, 07:00 PM
That is so NOT funny

haha i was just teasing, Dez Bryant makes soo much more sense

Smooth Criminal
03-06-2010, 07:06 PM
I said that weeks ago. McClain is going to go in the 2nd half of the first round, and someone is going to get a great linebacker and leader.

LetsGoGiants!
03-06-2010, 08:49 PM
Well hopefully he drops to #15 and the Giants swoop him up.

descendency
03-06-2010, 09:10 PM
haha i was just teasing, Dez Bryant makes soo much more sense

Please...

Did you see the the 40 time Taylor Mays ran?

-Al Davis

DeathbyStat
03-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Good, the steelers will grab him at 18

SenorGato
03-06-2010, 11:56 PM
All the way to 11-15 range...He was never going to go top 5.

umphrey
03-07-2010, 12:18 AM
Well if he falls to 24, the Eagles will take a very hard look at him. Bradley on the strong side and Mcclain in the middle. That sounds good to me!

I think most 4-3 teams will pass until the second round. Middle linebacker has a pretty low position value. When a MLB gets drafted top 15 he's got to be special like Patrick Willis. McClain has the game tape but his measurables say he's never going to be special.

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 01:18 AM
Would you guys agree that McClain is a 2nd rounder if he got caught grabbing a midget's tits?

Stranger
03-07-2010, 01:25 AM
How attractive is the midget?

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 01:28 AM
How attractive would you say the last midget was?

Let's assume it's the same midget.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2010, 01:29 AM
I like this thread. If some of you guys are correct, Dallas wouldn't be able to put his name on the card fast enough if he made it that far. Honestly, if he makes it to 22-23 range I'd expect a trade up. He's exactly what we'd need inside longterm and a great leader.

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 01:31 AM
Yeah, but why? Everyone just keeps saying LEADER LEADER OMG but what does he do that Bradie James doesn't?

Bradie James ruled some serious ass at LSU but he fell to the 4th cuz he's got really heavy feet. James is actually faster than McClain, I guarantee it, and he's still an awful liability in coverage.

McClain belongs in the 2nd round at the earliest.

ectuberider
03-07-2010, 02:06 AM
The Titans have labeled him as their "blue chip" player in this years draft class so I dont think there will be some sort of free fall to pick 45

Everyone is over analyzing his decision not to run at the combine but he had no real reason to work out there, hes the best ILB prospect as is and he would open himself up to more over analysis by working out at the combine.

JoeyHeisman
03-07-2010, 02:45 AM
Bradie James is not faster than Rolando McClain, and I'd bet top dollar on that. McClain plays faster, is faster, is better in coverage, is smarter, and just a better football player. I've seen every game the guy's played in since he was a freshmen. He's the real deal, and he'll be one of the best linebackers in the nfl for years to come.

Everyone has their own opinion, and I respect that. But to say that McClain is at best a second rounder is just flat out embarrassing.

RealityCheck
03-07-2010, 06:09 AM
I'd say he goes 15 or 18 to the G-Men or the Steelmen.

Addict
03-07-2010, 06:15 AM
I'm pretty sure he won't fall out of the top 20. But I can't tell where exactly he'll be going.

FUNBUNCHER
03-07-2010, 09:31 AM
Bradie James is not faster than Rolando McClain, and I'd bet top dollar on that. McClain plays faster, is faster, is better in coverage, is smarter, and just a better football player. I've seen every game the guy's played in since he was a freshmen. He's the real deal, and he'll be one of the best linebackers in the nfl for years to come.

Everyone has their own opinion, and I respect that. But to say that McClain is at best a second rounder is just flat out embarrassing.

Bradie James was a beast at LSU and in no way do I believe McClain is a better ILB prospect that James was.
The 2003 Draft was weak at LB with only 2 going in the 1st round, (Nick Barnett and Terrell Suggs), but clearly James was one of the top LBs in that class, considering how many 'backers picked ahead of him are no longer starting/in the league.

Still McClain will be a top 40 pick, more likely top 20. I just have a feeling that his straight line speed will disappoint.

BaLLiN
03-07-2010, 09:45 AM
I highly doubt that anyone lets him slip past the mid teens, his talents are starting to get downplayed quite a bit.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Yeah, but why? Everyone just keeps saying LEADER LEADER OMG but what does he do that Bradie James doesn't?



Well if you think calling him a great leader is the same as saying 'LEADER LEADER OMG' then yea, I can see your confusion.


Some guys have those intangibles where they can be leaders, McClain is one. He led the #1 defense all year, as a true freshman he had the respect and ears of the seniors on the team, he was a great Mike for Bama inside of their 3-4 defense which is attacking style exactly like what Wade Phillips runs.


He's a film junkie, and has been known as a defensive coordinator on the field for Bama for years now, knows where everyone is supposed to be and their job and calls out the plays.


If your going to act like he's not a leader, at least explain why instead of using internet talk in all caps to be funny. I never said he has some out of this world leadership abilities, but to ignore them would be pretty ignorant.


Also Dallas picks at #27, if you think he's a "2nd round pick at best", that's traditionally what late 1st round picks are for. Unless you think there is some crime picking an early 2nd round talent(even if we say your correct) a few picks before the 2nd round starts. Obviously nearly everyone(including scouts and NFL evaluators) rated him higher then you have even though your entitled to your own opinion, but him lasting to 27 would be perfectly fine for me.

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 10:17 AM
If your going to act like he's not a leader, at least explain why instead of using internet talk in all caps to be funny. I never said he has some out of this world leadership abilities, but to ignore them would be pretty ignorant.


I never said he wasn't a leader. I'm asking what else he brings to the table, because being a leader alone never did **** for anyone.


Also Dallas picks at #27, if you think he's a "2nd round pick at best", that's traditionally what late 1st round picks are for. Unless you think there is some crime picking an early 2nd round talent(even if we say your correct) a few picks before the 2nd round starts.

Well, I consider the late 1st a good area for taking late 1st round talents. 2-down linebackers? Not so much.


Obviously nearly everyone(including scouts and NFL evaluators) rated him higher then you have even though your entitled to your own opinion, but him lasting to 27 would be perfectly fine for me.

I think it's a bit early to make that assumption.

McClain, as I said, does a great job of following the ball and putting himself in position to make plays. He's also very strong.

But he's got nothing else going for him! He's slow, he's got terrible range, and he tackles high and grabs at ballcarriers rather than wrapping up low.


On Bradie James: No, McClain is not as fast as James is. James is much faster on film and he ran a 4.75 at his pro day. We'll see if McClain can outdo him.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2010, 10:22 AM
But he's got nothing else going for him! He's slow, he's got terrible range, and he tackles high and grabs at ballcarriers rather than wrapping up low.


So why even draft him? He's a UDFA at best, so I don't know why anyone would even waste their draft pick on him!

BaLLiN
03-07-2010, 10:25 AM
How is McClain a 2 down linebacker? Antonio Pierce played all downs for us. Hes not only slower and less agile, he couldnt cover.

McClain is fully capable of playing all 3 downs, he puts himself in a position to make plays, he understands football. He probably isnt anything faster than a 4.75, but quite honestly speed is overrated when it comes to linebackers especially MLBs. Making quick decisions, reading the offense, and having enough athleticism to do what your brain tells you is important.

EvilNixon
03-07-2010, 10:34 AM
I really like him, but the value just isn't there. I think he can play MLB in 34 or 43, but not early on. I love how he takes on blockers.

EvilNixon
03-07-2010, 10:35 AM
How is McClain a 2 down linebacker? Antonio Pierce played all downs for us. Hes not only slower and less agile, he couldnt cover.


Antonio Pierce has been pretty bad since he slowed down. :/

eagles6606
03-07-2010, 10:41 AM
I think most 4-3 teams will pass until the second round. Middle linebacker has a pretty low position value. When a MLB gets drafted top 15 he's got to be special like Patrick Willis. McClain has the game tape but his measurables say he's never going to be special.

Just look at how the Eagles bad the Eagles D was last year without a MLB. It may not be the highest positional value, but you still need a good one. There is no way Mcclain will fall out of the top 15 and most likely the top 10. If you have watched any game tape on Mcclain, you know he's the best LB in the country and IS going to be special.

BaLLiN
03-07-2010, 10:43 AM
Antonio Pierce has been pretty bad since he slowed down. :/

He has, but when our DT's were decent and could alow him space so he could go straight to the hole he was money. Pierce is a prime example of overcoming lack of physical talent.

So while i agree that McClain's leadership is being hyped to the max, his ability to instinctively predict the play and place players in good position is something that doesnt come around all the time. Sure players develop leadership. He makes players around him better, i think thats a key reason why he is in fact a first round pick.

D-Unit
03-07-2010, 10:44 AM
McClain may drop out of the Top 10 or Top 15, but he won't fall like DeMeco Ryan or Rey Maualuga. I'd laugh all the way to the bank if he fell to 27 and the Cowboys snatched him up.

BaLLiN
03-07-2010, 10:47 AM
If he gets to 15, which it really seems as if he will especially if Denver trades Marshall, the Giants will decide his fate.

EvilNixon
03-07-2010, 10:49 AM
He has, but when our DT's were decent and could alow him space so he could go straight to the hole he was money. Pierce is a prime example of overcoming lack of physical talent.
That's exactly what Alabama's D-line did for McClain. He can shed blocks, but he looked a lot better and was able to pursue with that great D-line.

So while i agree that McClain's leadership is being hyped to the max, his ability to instinctively predict the play and place players in good position is something that doesnt come around all the time. Sure players develop leadership. He makes players around him better, i think thats a key reason why he is in fact a first round pick.

The intangibles are terrific. I think he's a first round pick, but not a top 15.

LonghornsLegend
03-07-2010, 10:50 AM
If he gets to 15, which it really seems as if he will especially if Denver trades Marshall, the Giants will decide his fate.

What does that even mean? If you take him, or don't, I don't see how that's "deciding his fate". It seems kinda early for a guy who isn't the best fit in a 4-3 on the inside, but someone may choose him soon after anyway. It's not like if he doesn't go to NY he'll slide another round .

BaLLiN
03-07-2010, 10:59 AM
That's exactly what Alabama's D-line did for McClain. He can shed blocks, but he looked a lot better and was able to pursue with that great D-line.



The intangibles are terrific. I think he's a first round pick, but not a top 15.

I agree with this, he's really being downplayed in physical ability now.

What does that even mean? If you take him, or don't, I don't see how that's "deciding his fate". It seems kinda early for a guy who isn't the best fit in a 4-3 on the inside, but someone may choose him soon after anyway. It's not like if he doesn't go to NY he'll slide another round .

Well, its really just an asumption. You're right he doesnt fit the 4-3 completely, but if he's there at our pick its pretty much we take him or someone trades with us to take him.

Still really doubt San Francisco passes on him despite their needs at DB and OT.

bored of education
03-07-2010, 11:12 AM
He wont fall past the Giants. He will be the best overall player from this draft. I for one wuld love the Chiefs to 'reach' to get hiim. But of course they will draft Bulaga. :(

AntoinCD
03-07-2010, 11:13 AM
I have been saying for a while he wont go top 5 and probably not top 10. Few ILBs should go that high and they must be a Patrick Willis type prospect to warrant that. However I dont see any real scenario where he falls further than low 20s.

Jacksonville could take him, Denver could take him, SF may take a look but probably not, NYG could take him, Tennessee could tak him, Pittsburgh could take him, NE could take him.

With the amount of conversion DE/OLB prospects teams may be reluctant to take them high in the first as they could get Ricky Sapp, Jerry Hughes etc in the mid second so they may fall, Haden's 40 at the combine may cause him to slide and no other CB will go that high unless someone falls in love with Wilson.

Projected top 20 picks

3 or 4 DTs
1 WR
5 O-line
3 or pass rushers
2 QBs
3 safeties
1 RB
1 LB

Then you are left with prospects like Golden Tate, Sean Weatherspoon, Arrelious Benn, Kyle Wilson etc.

Most teams like Tennessee, Pittsburgh etc would easily take McClain over any of them and if it somehow played out he didnt go top 20 then NE would take him. He is the perfect foil playing next to Jerod Mayo. Mayo is very athletic and can play on third down, McClain can take on blockers and flow to the ball behind Vince Wilfork. Then on third down guys like Gary Guyton and Tyrone MacKenzie can sub in for him. Plus there is the Belichick/Saban connection.

bigfreak314
03-07-2010, 02:56 PM
He is gonna slip just like all the great ones do. Don't be surprised if he's rookie of the year.

GhostDeini
03-07-2010, 04:23 PM
McClain is a late first round talent at best.

The people who are saying he's Top 5-10 prospect are insane. If he is you must be new to this. He is a solid player. Will be a decent run stuffing MLB that will never touch the ball. He isn't a playmaker. He won't break up many passes either.

I saw alot more ability in Brandon Spikes but whatever. Just glad Dolphins won't be reaching for this guy at 12 now.

DoughBoy
03-07-2010, 04:26 PM
A source close to the Titans has identified him as the Titans number 1 blue chip player.

LetsGoGiants!
03-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Would anybody take Weatherspoon before him?

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 04:42 PM
Yeah. So will whatever team takes Weatherspoon before him. Probably your Giants.

Supporting Caste
03-07-2010, 04:43 PM
A source close to the Titans has identified him as the Titans number 1 blue chip player.

Give it a minute.

LetsGoGiants!
03-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Yeah. So will whatever team takes Weatherspoon before him. Probably your Giants.

Yeah, I'll be happy with McClain or Weatherspoon. Just as long as we get someone to fill the gap and help our D get back on track.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 08:48 AM
Ive been saying for a long time now that McClain is overrated as a prospect.

I see no difference between him and Brandon Spikes, in fact, part of me prefers Spikes.

Ive scouted both Spikes and McClain like a hawk over the past month, and I have both of them graded the same.


McClain is a good player, don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled if the Giants took him, but he's not the greatest thing since sliced bread like ppl make him out to be.

He tackles way too high. He doesn't deliver impact hits because his form is terrible. That won't work for him in the NFL. He's slow. Everyone knocks Spikes for being slow, but McClain is the same. He lacks range, lacks explosion, doesn't make enough plays in the backfield.

He's still a very good player, as we've seen, a lot of round 2 LB prospects flourish in the NFL.

But saying he's top 5 is ridiculous to me. He's no way near a top 5 player. If he's a top 15 pick, then Spikes should be the same.


I don't know what took scouts so long to see it. I noticed his flaws right away. I think sometimes 1 scout says 1 thing and everyone just jumps on the bandwagon. I think McClain benefited from that.

umphrey
03-08-2010, 08:51 AM
I don't know what took scouts so long to see it. I noticed his flaws right away. I think sometimes 1 scout says 1 thing and everyone just jumps on the bandwagon. I think McClain benefited from that.

This. There aren't any GMs jumping at the opportunity to give up a high first for this guy. Most of them prefer their middle linebackers to come from rounds 2-4 anyway, which is where McClain could end up, but I'm thinking probably in the 20s.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 09:04 AM
This. There aren't any GMs jumping at the opportunity to give up a high first for this guy. Most of them prefer their middle linebackers to come from rounds 2-4 anyway, which is where McClain could end up, but I'm thinking probably in the 20s.

he won't get out of the 1st round, but i think if you want to give him an honest evaluation, he has a late 1st/early 2nd round grade to him.

He's simply not athletic enough to be anything more than that. Especially in a draft as talented and as deep as this 1.

I can see teams reaching for him, and it could wind up being a good move bc we've seen plenty of round 2 talent LBs thrive in the NFL, but that doesn't negate the fact that if you go by grades, this guy is not a top 15 pick according to his grade.

descendency
03-08-2010, 09:49 AM
McClain to the Patriots.

bigfreak314
03-08-2010, 09:55 AM
A lot of guys that play the ILB position arent all that athletic but they seem to be the guys that thrive the most. Just like any player put McClain in the right system with his intangibles and he will shine. Its probably for the best that he slides and goes to a good team with a lot of talent around him as opposed to being drafted by say the KC Chiefs and fans hope he is the savior.


Personally give me a leader who brings intensity to my team, a lot of those athletic guys don't always pan out. Can someone please tell me what happened with Vernon Gholsten? Guy was big, strong, fast, did show pass rush abilities and still hasnt produced anything on the field

Jakey
03-08-2010, 10:02 AM
If McClain and Spoon are both there at 18, i dont know who i'd want. I prefer McClains thumping ability, but i prefer Spoons coverage ability...i like McClains leadersip, but i LOVE Spoons leadership...i love McClains block shedding, but i love Spoons tenacity.

It would be a really hard choise for the Steelers imo.

Hines
03-08-2010, 10:04 AM
McClain to the Patriots.

He won't make it past Pittsburgh at 18 if Weatherspoon is off the board.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 10:09 AM
If McClain and Spoon are both there at 18, i dont know who i'd want. I prefer McClains thumping ability, but i prefer Spoons coverage ability...i like McClains leadersip, but i LOVE Spoons leadership...i love McClains block shedding, but i love Spoons tenacity.

It would be a really hard choise for the Steelers imo.

I just wrote a post in the Giants board regarding this.

To me, its a no brainer, you want McClain or Spikes for the Steelers. Spoon to me is more of a 4-3 backer.

And you have Timmons, who is your coverage ILB anyway. You need a thumper to replace Farrior. McClain and Spikes fit the bill. In fact, Spikes is probably the best fit bc he's the best blitzer and downhill thumper of the 3.

Spikes is versatile enough to blitz from the outside like Timmons too. He's actually the guy I'd prefer if I were a Steelers fan.

I've studied Spikes and McClain to death the past month. I have them rated similarly. In an attacking ZB scheme like the Steelers, I'd rather have Spikes.

Jakey
03-08-2010, 10:16 AM
I would have thought the same untill this year...both of our ILB's are made to cover quite allot. I only noticed this year because Farrior was getting beaten so much. Can Spikes or McClain cover enough when asked to?

yourfavestoner
03-08-2010, 10:21 AM
I would have thought the same untill this year...both of our ILB's are made to cover quite allot. I only noticed this year because Farrior was getting beaten so much. Can Spikes or McClain cover enough when asked to?

Spikes is actually pretty good in underneath coverage..it's a really underrated part of his game.

He's excellent at getting in the passing lanes and even better at baiting QBs to make stupid throws underneath. It seemed like every time he picked a ball off he ran it back for a touchdown.

Ozzy
03-08-2010, 10:23 AM
Did he ever look slow on Alabama? No, he does not have track speed he has football speed and sure he might drop because most teams do not use high picks on inside linebackers, just look at last year, but does not mean they are not good players.

The kid is a stud and should be a fine pro.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 10:24 AM
I would have thought the same untill this year...both of our ILB's are made to cover quite allot. I only noticed this year because Farrior was getting beaten so much. Can Spikes or McClain cover enough when asked to?

I think they can. I think while neither are world beaters in coverage, I think they're good enough.

McClain understands his zone concepts to a T, he's never gonna pull an Urlacher and just wow you with his range, but he won't be out of position either.

Spikes may be out of position at times, but he'll make more plays on the ball than McClain would. McClain would be one of those "in the way" coverage LBs, Spikes would be one of those guys thats gonna get beat bad once in awhile, but also make a play once in awhile.

I think if you want more sound, disciplined coverage, McClain is your guy.

However, I think both would give you enough in coverage that you would be ok. Also add to the fact that blitzing is going to be important in your scheme.

What Spikes gives you is a world class blitzer. Now you have 4 legitimate blitzing LBs who can come on any down. How sick would that be? Timmons and Spikes can both play some spot duty at OLB in LeBeau's 3-4 if need be, thats how good both are at blitzing.

Spikes lined up at DE and ate Andre Smith's lunch last year, so he's definitely a world class blitzer on the inside. I just think he fits your scheme the best.

I think McClain would be a good blitzer too, bc of his sheer size and strength.

Spoon is too much like Timmons to be a good fit in your scheme. You need that 1 guy inside that cleans up the garbage. I think McClain and Spikes should be rated higher on Pittsburgh's board than Spoon, only bc they fit and compliment Timmons better than Spoon would.

If I'm a 4-3 team, I want Spoon. If I'm a 3-4 team, I want Spikes or McClain.

If I'm a 3-4 team that already has a thumper, then you may want to consider Spoon as an ILB compliment. But he shouldn't be considered the guy in a 3-4. He's more of the sideline range compliment to a guy who already dominates the phonebooth in a 3-4.

Jakey
03-08-2010, 10:32 AM
Cool man, thanks for the imput. One more thing, does Spikes work as a Tomlin type player, i.e High charactor, hard working kinda guy. That would be my main question when it comes to Spikes.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 10:34 AM
Cool man, thanks for the imput. One more thing, does Spikes work as a Tomlin type player, i.e High charactor, hard working kinda guy. That would be my main question when it comes to Spikes.

From what I noticed, I think the knocks on Spikes character are way overblown.

The guy is a great vocal leader with his teammates, he gets his guys motivated, he's focused on football. Can't say whether he's a hard worker or not, but I don't think he's lazy by any means.

Guys who watch and follow Florida's program regularly would know better than I do.

bigfreak314
03-08-2010, 10:54 AM
So who does McClain game most remind you of? Ed Hartwell, i.e. a straight thumper when he played in Baltimore but got exposed when he tried to switch to a 4-3 in ATL , Bart Scott, or somebody else

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 11:01 AM
Jeremiah Trotter with brains.

Ed Hartwell is another good comparison. He's better in coverage than both of them though.

Similar range to them, but better in coverage.

Jakey
03-08-2010, 11:18 AM
McClain reminds me allot of David Harris.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 11:39 AM
People keep comparing McClain to players who are wildly more athletic than he is. This is laughable.

McClain is a bigger, stronger, smarter, but probably a bit slower version of Bradie James.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 11:48 AM
David Harris seems a bit faster to me than McClain.

However, the point remains...what round did Harris go in? The 2nd.


I'm not saying McClain is going to be a bad player in the NFL, in fact I think he's going to be a very good player, regardless of whether he's drafted in a 3-4 or 4-3, I just don't understand his draft grade, that's really all I'm saying.

I think if you understand what McClain is, and what he's built for, and scheme around it, he'll be a very good player in the NFL.

He just has to be used right, which is essentially, as a run thumping linebacker. If you let him do his thing against the run, and give him easy coverage assignments, he'll be a beast.

If you're asking him to chase TEs down the field, you're in for a surprise.

At the end of the day, draft grades don't mean anything, if he's a good player, he's a good player, so its whatever.

Of course, if he tears up his pro day, I'll be inclined to change my mind about a lot of the questions I have of him, but as of right now, I have serious reservations about the guy as a top 15 pick.

Hines
03-08-2010, 11:52 AM
A couple things I do not like about McClain is that he sometimes get engulfed in the run game. He takes himself out of plays. He tackles way too high. Yeah he's in the 6'4 area, but he looks to have no leverage from what I saw. He doesn't look all that strong becasue if a guard or center latches on to him, he seems to be stuck in his tracks.

I will be watching more film on Spikes later.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 11:55 AM
Yeah, the way McClain tackles is an understated criticism. That crap isn't gonna work in the NFL. He basically tries to bear hug a lot of the time when he should just lower his shoulder, wrap up and clobber guys like he obviously could.

With that said, I don't see him get 'engulfed' that much. I think his ability to shed blocks is overrated but he rarely gets overpowered. He doesn't really disengage blockers, but he usually pushes them backwards, which is still pretty useful.

To those of you who think McClain is a blue-chip talent in this draft: Why is Brandon Spikes not the same?

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 11:55 AM
high tackling was probably my biggest concern for McClain.

that and he often is too patient, if that makes any sense. i want to see him explode into the gap sometimes, and he doesn't do that as much as you'd like.

he patiently bobs and weaves through traffic, then makes a high tackle that looks ugly. sometimes you just want to see him explode through that gap, bend his knees, and just drive a guy through a tackle and into the ground.

change of direction speed to me was a serious concern too.

LetsGoGiants!
03-08-2010, 11:55 AM
Why don't we all just wait and see how he performs at his pro day then decide. He looked great this season and by my sig you can tell I'm a fan. I do agree he's being a little to hyped, but I still believe he is a top 20 pick.

Edit: I do agree he tackles way to high. Hee does need to work on this.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 11:56 AM
Yeah, the way McClain tackles is an understated criticism. That crap isn't gonna work in the NFL. He basically tries to bear hug a lot of the time when he should just lower his shoulder, wrap up and clobber guys like he obviously could.

With that said, I don't see him get 'engulfed' that much. I think his ability to shed blocks is overrated but he rarely gets overpowered. He doesn't really disengage blockers, but he usually pushes them backwards, which is still pretty useful.

To those of you who think McClain is a blue-chip talent in this draft: Why is Brandon Spikes not the same?

THAT is the million dollar question that i've been asking for over a month now.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 11:57 AM
Why would his pro day overrule what he's done the past two years on the field in the most desirable situation imaginable for a LB?

LetsGoGiants!
03-08-2010, 12:00 PM
I'd say that McClain and Spikes are really similar. I believe Spikes dropped a bit because the eye gauging incident. He was in McClain's situation last year and a bit of this year.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 12:02 PM
More often, though, I've seen people say Spikes is too slow. I bet he's faster than McClain.

LetsGoGiants!
03-08-2010, 12:05 PM
More often, though, I've seen people say Spikes is too slow. I bet he's faster than McClain.

I guess time will tell.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 12:06 PM
I mean, not really. Is every guy who ran a 4.85 faster than Terrell Suggs?

LetsGoGiants!
03-08-2010, 12:13 PM
No I don't believe they would. Didn't Suggs run like a 4.6? I have a question for you. Who's your team? Can't tell from the name or anything.

yourfavestoner
03-08-2010, 12:24 PM
THAT is the million dollar question that i've been asking for over a month now.

Because Spikes is a senior and McClain is the flavor of the month underclassman linebacker.

He's stuck in the same position as ReyRey and Laurinitis, where he stuck around in college football too long and is being overanalyzed.

If Spikes had declared after his junior season (coming off a NC win) he would have been in the race with Cushing and Mattews to be the second linebacker selected. Conversely, if McClain had decided to stay in school, he'd likely be selected much lower next year. It just happens that way, for whatever reason.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 12:31 PM
Because Spikes is a senior and McClain is the flavor of the month underclassman linebacker.

He's stuck in the same position as ReyRey and Laurinitis, where he stuck around in college football too long and is being overanalyzed.

If Spikes had declared after his junior season (coming off a NC win) he would have been in the race with Cushing and Mattews to be the second linebacker selected. Conversely, if McClain had decided to stay in school, he'd likely be selected much lower next year. It just happens that way, for whatever reason.

why do you think it takes so long for them though to notice the same flaws in 2 different players?

when i started breaking down both of those guys, i noticed it right away. and i don't even watch that much college football. the few times i do thoroughly scout some select players, i'm pretty accurate with my assessments of them, but you figure draft experts and scouts who do it daily would notice it right away, but they don't.

i always found that odd.

Jakey
03-08-2010, 01:39 PM
Can you guys give some comparisons to these prospects please?

Rolando McClain -
Brandon Spikes -
Sean Weatherspoon -
Darryl Washington -
Micah Jonson -
Sean Lee -

(try not to compare Lee to other PSU alumni please, i get confused between them all XD)

bitonti
03-08-2010, 01:58 PM
here's what people need to remember about McClain and Spikes. Yes they are slower than they look on the field. But they are the only 2 non-sleeper 3-4 ILB prospects in this draft. I mean there's NOTHING at the position until round 6 or 7... there simply are no other LB with that type of size (250+) and height required for 3-4 ILB. There are no other guys who can handle the guards and shed those blocks.

put it another way there are more quarterbacks in this draft than 3-4 ILB. it might be the leanest position in the whole draft.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 02:02 PM
Can you guys give some comparisons to these prospects please?

Rolando McClain -
Brandon Spikes -
Sean Weatherspoon -
Darryl Washington -
Micah Jonson -
Sean Lee -

(try not to compare Lee to other PSU alumni please, i get confused between them all XD)

Its so tough. I thought for a good 5 minutes to myself about analogies, but its hard.

I didn't scout Jonson or Lee so i excluded them. But Washington...nobody currently in the league comes to mind, perhaps Thomas Howard, but I think Washington is going to be much better than Howard.

The speedy 4-3 WILL is a dying position bc so many teams are running the 3-4 nowadays. The best 1 is Briggs, but he's more physical than Washington.

Washington is the most fluid LB ive seen in quite some time. He's my highest rated LB in this draft, but will be taken way later bc he's strictly a 4-3 WILL and the demand for those types are not nearly as high as it used to be.

I want to say he reminds me of Derrick Brooks, but thats a ballsy comparison bc Brooks will be a HOFer, and was a little nastier than Washington. But Washington's fluidness in coverage is to the likes that I haven't seen in quite some time in an LB. He really is going to be a hell of a steal for whoever needs a 4-3 WILL. Maybe he's Michael Boley?

McClain could be Trotter in his prime, or maybe a bigger version of London Fletcher if he works on his tackling technique.

Spikes is Rey Maluaga.

Supporting Caste
03-08-2010, 02:27 PM
Rolando McClain - Bradie James

Brandon Spikes - Jeremiah Trotter

Sean Weatherspoon - Takeo Spikes

Darryl Washington - Keith Bulluck

Micah Jonson - Kai Parham

Sean Lee - Not sure.

BaLLiN
03-08-2010, 02:54 PM
Sean Weatherspoon is Jon Beason 2.0, there is no question, the similarities are astounding.

yourfavestoner
03-08-2010, 03:43 PM
In terms of playing style and strengths, Spikes reminds me a lot of Lawrence Timmons.

Timmons blows him out of the water athletically, though.

bigbluedefense
03-08-2010, 03:46 PM
In terms of playing style and strengths, Spikes reminds me a lot of Lawrence Timmons.

Timmons blows him out of the water athletically, though.

I was going to make that comparison, but like you said, Timmons is by far the better athlete.

Similar games though.