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View Full Version : If the Rams go SB and the Lions are serious...


gpngc
03-10-2010, 08:32 PM
...about taking Russell Okung (they really may be), then what the heck happens past that?

1- STL: Bradford
2- DET: Okung
3- TB: Suh
4- WAS: ???? (They just signed Keaumatu) Go with Clausen?
5- Chiefs: Probably won't go NT or yet another DE this high... trade bait? Who moves up?
6- SEA: If for some reason McCoy fell here he'd have to be the pick right?

Remember that at this time last year NO ONE thought Tyson Jackson was going top 10, let alone #3.

Stranger
03-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Although I think Suh is a better prospect I wouldn't be suprised if TB went McCoy there. McCoy seems like the perfect fit for a Tampa Two.

gpngc
03-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Although I think Suh is a better prospect I wouldn't be suprised if TB went MCCoy there. McCoy seems like the perfect fit for a Tampa Two.

It's possible, but my question remains the same even if McCoy is taken over Suh at #3.

SloppyJoe
03-10-2010, 08:37 PM
i'm absolutely not a fan of McCoy at the 5-technic. (komeutu (sp?) will play the NT, so that has nothing to do with McCoy)

i think in that situation WSH will draft Eric Berry at #4

maybe KC has an olinemen rated that high to pick him here, but i think they will go best D-player on their board.

SEA will go with a QB here

TACKLE
03-10-2010, 08:39 PM
This is not going to happen happening. DT is a greater need than OT for the Lions and the DT value is significantly better. The Lions seem to think Backus is solid and they have Cherilus on the right side. So if DT is a greater need and is a greater value, than why would they go with Okung. It will be Suh or McCoy.

SloppyJoe
03-10-2010, 08:40 PM
Although I think Suh is a better prospect I wouldn't be suprised if TB went MCCoy there. McCoy seems like the perfect fit for a Tampa Two.

i heard that alot. McCoy is the absolutey perfect fit at the 3-technic in our hybrid tampa2
i think it comes down to this:
is Morris the long term HC of our team? then mabe yes, you draft McCoy
If our GM (i hope he stays a long time, with our without Morris) thinks that Morris is not the long term answer than you have to draft Suh.

Stranger
03-10-2010, 08:41 PM
It's possible, but my question remains the same even if McCoy is taken over Suh at #3.

Suh fits much better than McCoy as a 3-4 end so if he was there at 4 I think Washington would take him.

gpngc
03-10-2010, 08:42 PM
This is not going to happen happening. DT is a greater need than OT for the Lions and the DT value is significantly better. The Lions seem to think Backus is solid and they have Cherilus on the right side. So if DT is a greater need and is a greater value, than why would they go with Okung. It will be Suh or McCoy.

Multiple reports indicate they are enamored with him and they've interviewed him/been linked to him at his pro day.

I also read a report that said that Coach Schwartz did say that if they found a better LT, Backus would slide inside.

FUNBUNCHER
03-10-2010, 08:54 PM
If McCoy is on the board when the SKins pick, they're trading out of that slot.

RWills
03-10-2010, 09:41 PM
Unless they take Clausen

KC could take him then trade Dorsey or trade down

I can see him in Seattle as well or use him to trade down

Cleveland and Denver would be teams to trade up to get him, got rid of Corey Williams and would like to get rid of Shaun Rogers.

People thought it was insane to take Mario Williams over Reggie Bush, this is the same thing. They need to protect their franchise investment

YAYareaRB
03-10-2010, 09:55 PM
Clausen as a skin would be pretty badass

RaiderNation
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
Im sure if Suh or McCoy fall past 3 there will be around 20 calls to the Redskins trying to trade up to snag one of them. Doubt the Lions pass up Suh though since this OT class is pretty deep. Just wonder if they took Oher last year.... Stafford Megatron Oher and Suh on D... sex

RWills
03-10-2010, 10:23 PM
After the first round the OT's wont be so deep anymore

GhostDeini
03-10-2010, 11:48 PM
Why couldn't the Lions have just drafted Michael Oher last year ?

I mean you drafted a franchise QB few picks ealier !?

I don't care what that TE does in his career he will never be as good as Oher and it was clear as day. That TE will play for like 5 different teams if he even makes it that long in the NFL.

Some franchises will always suck because of this reasoning. We suck therefore we must take a skill position player because we're 1 TE short of really exploding over the guys who really win games OL/DL and sometimes QB's like THEY JUST FINISHED DRAFTING.

You draft the skill position player when he's clear cut best player available. You don't reach for a TE who's best attributes are as a blocker when you HAVE FRANCHISE OT's available. Never.

Who the hell is Jeff Backus in the league that his job on 0-16 teams is secured ? GTFOH.

Anyway, Lions must take Suh this year.

KCDizz
03-10-2010, 11:48 PM
After the first round the OT's wont be so deep anymore

this, the DTs is actually really deep this year

FloridaFootball
03-10-2010, 11:51 PM
Im sure if Suh or McCoy fall past 3 there will be around 20 calls to the Redskins trying to trade up to snag one of them. Doubt the Lions pass up Suh though since this OT class is pretty deep. Just wonder if they took Oher last year.... Stafford Megatron Oher and Suh on D... sex

oooohmmgg i wish this would happen.

TACKLE
03-10-2010, 11:59 PM
oooohmmgg i wish this would happen.

But what about this.


http://otrsportsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/AlbertHaynesworth.jpghttp://collegefootblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/gerald-mccoy1.jpg

Clarkw267
03-11-2010, 12:08 AM
I like Okung, but if the Lions draft him over Suh, I'll be pissed.

How many times have you heard "Russell Okung is the best college LT I've ever seen"?..... Exactly.

wogitalia
03-11-2010, 12:21 AM
How many times have you heard "Russell Okung is the best college LT I've ever seen"?..... Exactly.

On this reasoning, should you not be taking Tim Tebow? Because I have heard he is the best college player ever.

Okung wouldn't be that bad a pick to be honest. They have their #1 WR, TE, RT and QB on offense. Throw in LT and you can let them all grow together, similar to what Indy did with Manning, Glenn and Harrison. I think it has been proven that it is easier to "overachieve' as a defense with little talent than as an offense.

That said, I think the Lions are in a great position, they can't go wrong with Suh, McCoy, Okung, Berry or McClain there. Even Bryant has the talent to be ok. They just need to not be unlucky with the pick, they have great need for talent matches.

Clarkw267
03-11-2010, 12:29 AM
On this reasoning, should you not be taking Tim Tebow? Because I have heard he is the best college player ever.

Okung wouldn't be that bad a pick to be honest. They have their #1 WR, TE, RT and QB on offense. Throw in LT and you can let them all grow together, similar to what Indy did with Manning, Glenn and Harrison. I think it has been proven that it is easier to "overachieve' as a defense with little talent than as an offense.

That said, I think the Lions are in a great position, they can't go wrong with Suh, McCoy, Okung, Berry or McClain there. Even Bryant has the talent to be ok. They just need to not be unlucky with the pick, they have great need for talent matches.

Cherilus is in no way set in stone at RT. In fact I think he gets this year to lock down the starting job, or he could be gone.

And as for the Tebow comment, QB is an entirely different animal. Suh is an elite talent, and brings a ton of versatility to any DL.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-11-2010, 01:22 AM
I've been thinking about this very thing lately. For the sake of this breakdown, let's just assume St. Louis picks Sam Bradford with the #1 pick.

Detroit's choice is then Suh vs. McCoy vs. Okung. I don't think a single person has Okung rated over either of the other two, myself included. That said, a few very compelling arguments can be made for the idea that Detroit could use a left tackle far more than a defensive tackle. Looking at Schwartz's defensive history, having a player like Haynesworth was an aberration and not at all a necessary aspect to that scheme (that was partly why Schwartz was so willing to moving Haynesworth around the line). Even recognizing that, I don't think Suh is quite as explosive as Haynesworth and I think McCoy makes slightly less sense. Meanwhile, you have a potentially franchise quarterback coming off a decent first year and an incredibly talented wide receiver, but your offensive line didn't hold up well enough to take full advantage of that. I know that Schwartz is a defensive coach, but I think he's also shown himself to be fairly prudent in how he constructed his defenses. I think Detroit could very well go for Okung.

So then Tampa has the choice of Suh or McCoy. There's been a metric ****-ton of smoke that the Buccaneers prefer McCoy and I think he's a fantastic fit for that defense. I think it would be a close decision, but I would wager on them settling on McCoy.

Washington is where it gets really interesting. Had Tampa gone for Suh, they might've drafted McCoy to play opposite Haynesworth, but I simply don't see them drafting Suh. I'd say that probably puts either Eric Berry or Jimmy Clausen at the top of the list, or maybe the Redskins #2 offensive tackle (Bulaga?). Berry would make some sense and while I think Clausen makes a decent amount of sense for Shanahan, this would probably be a major spot for some trade action. Kansas City could draft Suh (emphasis on could; I don't think they would), as could Seattle, Cleveland (almost certainly would), and Oakland. If any team wanted to move up for Suh, the 4th or 5th pick would be the place.

I think there's a real possibility. Earlier in the process, people are far more comfortable slotting the BPA to high picks, but as the draft nears, positional needs start to take a front seat.

Stranger
03-11-2010, 01:32 AM
Washington is where it gets really interesting. Had Tampa gone for Suh, they might've drafted McCoy to play opposite Haynesworth, but I simply don't see them drafting Suh. I'd say that probably puts either Eric Berry or Jimmy Clausen at the top of the list, or maybe the Redskins #2 offensive tackle (Bulaga?). Berry would make some sense and while I think Clausen makes a decent amount of sense for Shanahan, this would probably be a major spot for some trade action. Kansas City could draft Suh (emphasis on could; I don't think they would), as could Seattle, Cleveland (almost certainly would), and Oakland. If any team wanted to move up for Suh, the 4th or 5th pick would be the place.



Do you see McCoy as a better fit in the 3-4 than Suh? I see it the other way around. Unless the reports that they are switching defensive schemes aren't true.

Paranoidmoonduck
03-11-2010, 01:38 AM
Do you see McCoy as a better fit in the 3-4 than Suh? I see it the other way around. Unless the reports that they are switching defensive schemes aren't true.

I think both Suh and McCoy represent a pretty decent value as 5-technique, although I would definitely rate Suh higher. That said, I was under the impression that the Redskins were going to be showing both front with some regularity and I think that McCoy would be a better counterbalance to Haynesworth in that situation. Who knows, maybe Washington wouldn't look very long at either defensive tackle, but I think McCoy would look more enticing.

DiG
03-11-2010, 08:08 AM
I think both Suh and McCoy represent a pretty decent value as 5-technique, although I would definitely rate Suh higher. That said, I was under the impression that the Redskins were going to be showing both front with some regularity and I think that McCoy would be a better counterbalance to Haynesworth in that situation. Who knows, maybe Washington wouldn't look very long at either defensive tackle, but I think McCoy would look more enticing.

you are correct in your impression. haslett has called it a hybrid defense similar to the ravens. no idea as to what the split will be but id guess probably 60/40 with slightly more 3-4 looks which could move more in favor of the 3-4 over the next few years. if okung was off the board and both DTs were available I cant imagine we wouldnt take one of them. the only way we didnt would probably be in a trade down. and personally id prefer suh to mccoy although id love to have either.

HawkeyeFan
03-11-2010, 08:19 AM
First of all, if the Rams take Sam Bradford, they've made the worst decision they could have EVER made. He's fragile, just another spread QB and way too big of a risk for the Rams to take. I wouldn't even take him Top 12, let alone #1.

The Rams should take Jimmy Clausen, he's a much better fit and at worst he'll be a decent starter, and at best he'll be great. He's a Pro of the West Coast Offense, and that's what St. Louis Rams.


Secondly, the Lions should take Suh or McCoy and pair him up with that young DL they have. They'd be beastly.

Prowler
03-11-2010, 08:30 AM
if i hear one more michael oher comment.....why would we have taken a right tackle that high? he has proven nothing so far. this isn't millen drafting cherilus. linehan's offense is highly dependent on a TE, GET OVER IT!!!

bigfreak314
03-11-2010, 08:44 AM
...about taking Russell Okung (they really may be), then what the heck happens past that?

1- STL: Bradford
2- DET: Okung
3- TB: Suh
4- WAS: ???? (They just signed Keaumatu) Go with Clausen?
5- Chiefs: Probably won't go NT or yet another DE this high... trade bait? Who moves up?
6- SEA: If for some reason McCoy fell here he'd have to be the pick right?

Remember that at this time last year NO ONE thought Tyson Jackson was going top 10, let alone #3.

If the top 3 went like that I could see Seattle trying to trade up to Washington's pick to draft thier QB of the future, Jimmy Clausen,who could get drafted by KC if they don't feel like Cassel is thier guy. Cassel has a 2 year option on his contract and new OC Charlie Weis was Clausen's coach in college. Plus Clausen is familiar with Weis's system.

bigfreak314
03-11-2010, 09:14 AM
It should be noted that both the Chiefs and the Seahawks both need OL help so seattle could leap from KC to land the OL of thier liking as well

bitonti
03-11-2010, 09:16 AM
assuming the skins couldn't trade the pick they'd take Best Available tackle which is Bulaga or Trent Williams.

BlueBandit24
03-11-2010, 09:33 AM
Personally, I take Okung if I am Detroit. That franchise is going nowhere if Stafford keeps getting battered like he did last year. With Peppers, Allen, and Matthews all in his division he's going to need as much help as he can get. Okung would go a long way towards completing that offense and they could mature together. That said, getting Suh/McCoy could potentially go a long way towards rebuilding that organization.

Back to the original topic, I agree with those that feel a trade-up for Suh/McCoy would be in order. Some teams would be tripping over themselves to move up.

King Carls 5 Year Plan
03-11-2010, 09:48 AM
If the top 3 went like that I could see Seattle trying to trade up to Washington's pick to draft thier QB of the future, Jimmy Clausen,who could get drafted by KC if they don't feel like Cassel is thier guy. Cassel has a 2 year option on his contract and new OC Charlie Weis was Clausen's coach in college. Plus Clausen is familiar with Weis's system.

Wow. Don't let Chiefs fans know you're talking about drafting Clausen at #5. We know that Weis is the new OC in town, but Pioli hand picked Cassel. If they give Cassel more than 1.7 seconds to throw the ball and ONE (only one, asking for more than one would be greedy) WR that can actually catch the freakin ball and Cassel looks alot like he did in NE. He has his flaws, but all QBs do. I do believe that if it doesn't work out this year, they may not pick up his option, but I doubt they go after Clausen with Cassel still at the helm. They would be more likely to go after another QB next season if Cassel faulters. The QB class looks pretty good next year and if Cassel sucks, we'll be right back up in the top 5 to get one of them. Plus, Quinn (another Weis crony) will be available next year too. To me the Chiefs have to many glaring holes to fill to draft a QB at #5, when they feel they have a QB already in place.

As far as this mock is concerned, if StL. takes Bradford I do believe the Lions would take a long hard look at Okung. The Lions have gone out in the free agent market at targeted defensive lineman. That does seem to move the emphasis of the draft pick away from the DLine. I know, I know. I've heard it a million time, already. "Schwartz has said this won't change their draft plans." You're right. What if the plan was to get a bunch of DLineman in FA and draft a LT? Then his plan hasn't changed at all. Showing up at Vanden Bosch's front door at 12:01 am, bottle of wine in hand, shows me some premeditation. Berry is another possibility. He would look great next to Delmas and give the Lions a great pair of Safeties for 5 years. My money is on Okung. He immediately makes their line alot better. Move Backus to G and it's like 2 picks in 1. Gotta protect the Franchise!

TB is doing back flips because they get to choose between Suh and McCoy. IMO, Suh is the much better player, but McCoy fits the 3 technique very well. For that, McCoy is the pick. Hell, right now, you can't go wrong with either of them.

Washington will entertain trading down to a team that wants Suh, but the offer better be pretty damn good, because it's going to take a heck of a deal to pry Shanahan away from Clausen. Clausen fits into his system very well. He also knows that the Skins are better than a 4-12 team. So, it is unlikely they are drafting this high next season and he takes the opportunity to get his franchise QB.

KC has a couple routes here. Berry would address a huge need in the secondary. Mike Brown played horrible. Berry also shows value at at #5. Bulaga is another one that could be taken at #5. Now, I don't believe Bulaga should be the pick. Nor, does he have value that high, but Pioli has shown he will not hesitate to over draft if he feels they are the right player. And it is very important for the development of Cassel and this offense to improve the OLine. Now, whether that's in round 1,2 or 3, IDK. Other possibilities would include Rolando McClain and Dez Bryant. I think Dez is slowly working himself out of the Chiefs eye, but I know Haley wants new WRs. To me Berry would be the pick. Then use 2a on a NT and 2b on an OLineman or vice vesa.

bigfreak314
03-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Wow. Don't let Chiefs fans know you're talking about drafting Clausen at #5. We know that Weis is the new OC in town, but Pioli hand picked Cassel. If they give Cassel more than 1.7 seconds to throw the ball and ONE (only one, asking for more than one would be greedy) WR that can actually catch the freakin ball and Cassel looks alot like he did in NE. He has his flaws, but all QBs do. I do believe that if it doesn't work out this year, they may not pick up his option, but I doubt they go after Clausen with Cassel still at the helm. They would be more likely to go after another QB next season if Cassel faulters. The QB class looks pretty good next year and if Cassel sucks, we'll be right back up in the top 5 to get one of them. Plus, Quinn (another Weis crony) will be available next year too. To me the Chiefs have to many glaring holes to fill to draft a QB at #5, when they feel they have a QB already in place.

As far as this mock is concerned, if StL. takes Bradford I do believe the Lions would take a long hard look at Okung. The Lions have gone out in the free agent market at targeted defensive lineman. That does seem to move the emphasis of the draft pick away from the DLine. I know, I know. I've heard it a million time, already. "Schwartz has said this won't change their draft plans." You're right. What if the plan was to get a bunch of DLineman in FA and draft a LT? Then his plan hasn't changed at all. Showing up at Vanden Bosch's front door at 12:01 am, bottle of wine in hand, shows me some premeditation. Berry is another possibility. He would look great next to Delmas and give the Lions a great pair of Safeties for 5 years. My money is on Okung. He immediately makes their line alot better. Move Backus to G and it's like 2 picks in 1. Gotta protect the Franchise!

TB is doing back flips because they get to choose between Suh and McCoy. IMO, Suh is the much better player, but McCoy fits the 3 technique very well. For that, McCoy is the pick. Hell, right now, you can't go wrong with either of them.

Washington will entertain trading down to a team that wants Suh, but the offer better be pretty damn good, because it's going to take a heck of a deal to pry Shanahan away from Clausen. Clausen fits into his system very well. He also knows that the Skins are better than a 4-12 team. So, it is unlikely they are drafting this high next season and he takes the opportunity to get his franchise QB.

KC has a couple routes here. Berry would address a huge need in the secondary. Mike Brown played horrible. Berry also shows value at at #5. Bulaga is another one that could be taken at #5. Now, I don't believe Bulaga should be the pick. Nor, does he have value that high, but Pioli has shown he will not hesitate to over draft if he feels they are the right player. And it is very important for the development of Cassel and this offense to improve the OLine. Now, whether that's in round 1,2 or 3, IDK. Other possibilities would include Rolando McClain and Dez Bryant. I think Dez is slowly working himself out of the Chiefs eye, but I know Haley wants new WRs. To me Berry would be the pick. Then use 2a on a NT and 2b on an OLineman or vice vesa.

Yea I personally don't have a problem with Cassel because he did a lot with not a lot of protection. And not to mention there were a lot of dropped balls until Chris Chambers came into town. Really the Chiefs can't lose because they got holes every where and any of these guys could contribute. The Defense was porous, OL cant pass block(although thier run blocking picked up the 2nd half of the season), but there is hope with Scott Pioli working behind the screnes.

Quite honestly after Tampa Bay picks we very well could see 3 straight picks at OT.

superfly69
03-11-2010, 01:26 PM
I would be very surprised if Detroit passed on one of the top DT's in this draft. If they did, neither Suh nor McCoy wold fall past Seattle at 6, and you know one of the two would go to Tampa at 3. So there you go. I can't see Washington drafting a DT after giving Haynesworth $40 million in guaranteed money last year, but who knows what Dan Snyder thinks?

superfly69
03-11-2010, 01:34 PM
if i hear one more michael oher comment.....why would we have taken a right tackle that high? he has proven nothing so far. this isn't millen drafting cherilus. linehan's offense is highly dependent on a TE, GET OVER IT!!!

Because he is not a long term right tackle, thats why. He will eventually play on the left side. Also TE was the deepest position in last years draft. There were good TE's drafted through the 6th round. Why waste a 1st rounder on a position where you can find a solid starter in the middle rounds? That pick should have been Oher or Jerry the DT from Ole Miss who Atlanta drafted. The Lions do not draft well. Never have period.

toddmlazarchick
03-11-2010, 02:52 PM
I want Clausen in Washington more then anyone but if we are sitting at #4 with either Suh or McCoy on the board still the pick has to be either one of them. A 3-4 front of McCoy/Suh - Kemoeatu - Haynesworth is freaking nasty! I would prefer Suh over McCoy as a 3-4 DE but I would be very pleased with either. Its not every year you have a chance to have one of the (if not the) best DT in the league and drafting his looks to be clone in the draft. Too tempting to pass up IMO.

Triumphdog
03-11-2010, 03:24 PM
Coming from a Detroit Lions fan that has watched every lions game of the past 10 years...and watched every draft...I highly doubt that they would take Okung. Defense is now the problem (other than RB) in Detroit. We just signed KVB and traded for Corey Williams. Even though we have obtained these guys, I would still think that Schwartz & Mayhew would prefer Suh first, if he goes #1, then McCoy. Okung is a "nice" prospect...but when you have two of the better DT propects we have seen in a LONG time, then you must jump at it. Schwartz worked with a Pro-Bowler (when motivated) in Haynesworth in TENN. He knows how much of an advantage having a stud DT is...

RealityCheck
03-11-2010, 03:40 PM
The Skins will not take a QB in any way.

Big Black
03-11-2010, 03:53 PM
Given the depth at the OT position in this year's draft, I don't think the Lions would choose Okung over either Suh or McCoy. Detroit can pickup a starting caliber OT at the top of the 2nd round and still their difference maker at DT.

Babylon
03-11-2010, 04:22 PM
Coming from a Detroit Lions fan that has watched every lions game of the past 10 years...and watched every draft...I highly doubt that they would take Okung. Defense is now the problem (other than RB) in Detroit. We just signed KVB and traded for Corey Williams. Even though we have obtained these guys, I would still think that Schwartz & Mayhew would prefer Suh first, if he goes #1, then McCoy. Okung is a "nice" prospect...but when you have two of the better DT propects we have seen in a LONG time, then you must jump at it. Schwartz worked with a Pro-Bowler (when motivated) in Haynesworth in TENN. He knows how much of an advantage having a stud DT is...

This and the fact that there will be good O-linemen at the top of round 2. Charles Brown, Jason Fox, Vlad Ducasse.....could all be there.

Saints-Tigers
03-11-2010, 04:36 PM
To be fair, DT is really deep as well.

Take who you have rated highest. Picking for need always gets you in trouble.

Triumphdog
03-11-2010, 05:49 PM
To be fair, DT is really deep as well.

Take who you have rated highest. Picking for need always gets you in trouble.

Very true...am I on crack for thinking that if Suh goes number one though that Eric Berry to team up with Louis Delmas would be fantastic...I know that McCoy is a great prospect...but Berry almost has a non-bust factor...even though there is no such thing...

Saints-Tigers
03-11-2010, 05:55 PM
Very true...am I on crack for thinking that if Suh goes number one though that Eric Berry to team up with Louis Delmas would be fantastic...I know that McCoy is a great prospect...but Berry almost has a non-bust factor...even though there is no such thing...

I'm not sure I wouldn't take Berry over Suh... IDK.

toddmlazarchick
03-11-2010, 08:42 PM
The Skins will not take a QB in any way.

What makes you say that.